[07:34] <ajmitch_> 
[07:39] <Mez> well said ajmitch_ 
[07:43] <Seveas> Yes, he sums it up quite nicely
[07:44] <Mez> :D
[07:49] <ajmitch_> Mez: that's called forcing a disconnect from ssh due to power failure taking out the AP here :)
[07:49] <Mez> ah lol
[01:01] <JaneW> hi all
[01:02] <pips1> hi
[01:02] <JaneW> hi pips1 ltns
[01:02] <JaneW> hi flint
[01:02] <jsgotangco> *bamf*
[01:02] <flint> good morning campers!!!!
[01:02] <flint> JaneW, good morning my dear!
[01:02] <JaneW> hi jsgotangco 
[01:03] <JaneW> ogra: ping
[01:03] <flint> JaneW, I actually have the lab running here finally.
[01:03] <fabbione> hey flint !
[01:03] <pips1> JaneW, I've been very busy with my day job
[01:03] <flint> fabbione, my god it's the Italian Stallion!!!!
[01:03] <fabbione> ahah
[01:03] <jsgotangco> lol
[01:03] <jsgotangco> isn't that Rocky?
[01:03] <JaneW> flint: excellent
[01:04] <fabbione> man.. i can't hide anywhere
[01:04] <JaneW> hi fabbione 
[01:04] <pips1> JaneW, lot's of overtime
[01:04] <fabbione> hey Jane
[01:04] <JaneW> pips1: ahh :/
[01:04] <flint> fabbione, this is like a visit from the pope, Fabio you are most Welcome!
[01:04] <ogra> moin
[01:04] <JaneW> where's ogra?
[01:04] <ogra> :P
[01:04] <jsgotangco> jeezz
[01:04] <JaneW> there he is
[01:04] <JaneW> hi Oli
[01:04] <fabbione> flint: thanks :)
[01:04] <ogra> ok, tech update:
[01:04] <ogra> fixed a lot of smaller ltsp bugs, thin-client-faster startup about to be finished (should be done tomorrow)
[01:04] <ogra> merged a lot of debian fixes for our ltsp package (especially important for lower memeory clients).
[01:04] <ogra> the bug that caused icon themes, wallpapers and themes to be broken if you were logged in with the same user twice is fixed, so internet cafes and schools that want to use only one account on evey thin client will be much happier (fix is in seb128's hands, to be uploaded).
[01:04] <ogra> gdm theme handling was fixed so the customization doesnt break theme handling anymore (important for edubuntu-artwork)
[01:04] <ogra> low memory spec fot ltsp should be finished before next meeting
[01:05] <JaneW> yes ogra is first, and let's behave today
[01:05] <JaneW> ogra: sounds good
[01:05] <ogra> pre flight 4 testing is still not started ...
[01:05] <JaneW> how much more to do before FF next thurs?
[01:05] <ogra> we're having small problemns with the NEW process in soyuz that breaks the CDs
[01:06] <JaneW> ogra: what's holding flight 4 up?
[01:06] <JaneW> oic
[01:06] <ogra> if thats done, we can start the first flight4 tests
[01:06] <JaneW> how serious is it?
[01:06] <JaneW> cause for mild panic?
[01:06] <jsgotangco> builds
[01:06] <flint> ogra, you were busy... we got a good image but soyuz cannot generate it?
[01:06] <ogra> its serious for the whole distro, not only for us ... i hope thats fixed soon
[01:06] <JaneW> agreed
[01:06] <ogra> flint, we dont
[01:07] <ogra> flint, the image is missing packages that are stuck in the NEW queue
[01:07] <JaneW> ogra: is there an eta on a fix yet?
[01:07] <ogra> and there are problems to process that easily ...
[01:07] <flint> ogra, gotcha... I finally get off my ass and get the lab in and the distro breaks (I am a most bitter old man :^)
[01:07] <JaneW> is Kamion still estimating THIS week?
[01:07] <ogra> a paste from the canonical channel:
 March 2006, Linux Journal (the US one) has a 3/4 page on Edubuntu by Doc Searls.  Title is "Edubuntucation"
[01:07] <ogra> fyi 
[01:07] <ogra> !
[01:07] <ogra> :)
[01:08] <jsgotangco> Doc Searls!
[01:08] <JaneW> ogra: awesome we must get a copy
[01:08] <jsgotangco> god that is good
[01:08] <ogra> JaneW, i think so
[01:08] <jsgotangco> Doc Searls!
[01:08] <flint> yea buddy that is good ink!
[01:08] <ogra> jsgotangco, depends what he writes :P
[01:08] <jsgotangco> still
[01:08] <jsgotangco> Doc Searls!
[01:08] <jsgotangco> heh
[01:08] <ogra> JaneW, thats all from my side for today
[01:09] <JaneW> ogra: i created https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuFlight4Announcement
[01:09] <JaneW> ogra: ready for you to fill in with cool features etc
[01:09] <ogra> yup, saw it in #edubuntu 
[01:09] <jsgotangco> i saw it on email too
[01:09] <mhz> re
[01:09] <ogra> i'll do ... let me finish my fater startup spec first :)
[01:09] <JaneW> think we need a grpahical page like ubuntu has? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFlight4
[01:09] <mhz> wow, JaneW indeed that Ubuntu dapper announcement looks very cool
[01:10] <ogra> JaneW, urgh ... thats a day work or even more ...
[01:10] <flint> janew, does the flight 4 page have an iso behind it now? or is this for the future.
[01:10] <ogra> taking all these screenshots and make them ready takes a lot of time 
[01:10] <jsgotangco> future
[01:10] <JaneW> ogra: also are you updating https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu?
[01:10] <ogra> and we dont have a new theme yet
[01:11] <ogra> JaneW, nope, not yet ...
[01:11] <JaneW> ogra: nod, that's why I am asking...
[01:11] <flint> JaneW, you probably remember the "harry potter" angle...
[01:11] <JaneW> ogra: think it's worth the effort yet, esp without a new theme and look yet?
[01:11] <ogra> i'm very busy with coding and wouldnt like to be distracted by paperwork if possible ...
[01:12] <ogra> i dont want to risk my gaols ...
[01:12] <JaneW> ogra: understood.... here is your chance to trawl for help...
[01:12] <JaneW> *HINT HINT*
[01:12] <ogra> haha
[01:12] <mhz> JaneW: I'd gladly do it but It wont be possible for me until I get to put my hands on that lab i told you (1 more week at least)
[01:13] <ogra> flint, what about you, you are eager to test, would you mind making a little testplan ? 
[01:13] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu
[01:13] <mhz> JaneW: I have not tried dapper yet :(
[01:13] <flint> JaneW, hey, I am getting a lab together.  let me talk this offline with the Janester...
[01:13] <ogra> cool :)
[01:14] <JaneW> I am still a little scared of Dapper
[01:14] <flint> ogra, ok I see a test plan, and a good one.  who did this?
[01:14] <JaneW> it didn;t pass the first Jane test cycle yet...
[01:14] <ogra> flint, dholbach
[01:14] <jsgotangco> this was taken from dholbach's originail test plan
[01:14] <flint> ogra, this is really fine.
[01:14] <ogra> yup :)
[01:15] <jsgotangco> ok
[01:15] <JaneW> ogra / flint: I think we just need to test the tesp plan and see if it needs any amendments
[01:16] <JaneW> ogra: will you keep us informed on flight CD status and let us know when the announcement needs to be ready?
[01:16] <flint> JaneW, put testing on the agenda.  I agree we need to walk this space...
[01:16] <ogra> JaneW, absolutely
[01:16] <JaneW> and we need to list of cool new features, known issues and bugs etc
[01:16] <ogra> JaneW, lets have it prepared for the weekend ...
[01:16] <Kinnison> ogra: which 'NEW' bug is this?
[01:16] <JaneW> ogra: agreed
[01:17] <JaneW> ok well then tech discussion done.
[01:17] <ogra> Kinnison, we cant process NEW apparently ... Kamion knows more ...
[01:17] <JaneW> next up Docs
[01:17] <JaneW> jsgotangco: you first
[01:17] <jsgotangco> cool
[01:17] <jsgotangco> i've uploaded new docs and should be available at http://doc.ubuntu.com/
[01:17] <jsgotangco> but i forgot to upload the makescript so wait for a few hours
[01:18] <jsgotangco> and i've been testing the amd64 builds hoping for a working system but alas
[01:18] <jsgotangco> ...
[01:18] <jsgotangco> so i'll just depend on the live workstation builds for the meantime
[01:18] <flint> jsgotangco, any paticular place on http://doc.ubuntu.com/?
[01:19] <jsgotangco> i've also started a small draft for a quickguide for end users intead of admins of the system
[01:19] <JaneW> jsgotangco: as you mentioned to me earlier?
[01:19] <jsgotangco> yes
[01:19] <jsgotangco> its for end users who log into as clients
[01:19] <flint> jsgotangco, this is a good thing.
[01:19] <JaneW> jsgotangco: what format will the quick guide be?
[01:19] <JaneW> jsgotangco: lovely :))
[01:19] <jsgotangco> instead of showing thema ll the usual ubuntu stuff
[01:20] <jsgotangco> we'll focus on the core desktop apps that they can use
[01:20] <jsgotangco> kedu for instance
[01:20] <jsgotangco> the screenshots are not a problem i'm very much used to this
[01:20] <jsgotangco> i just need a working system so i'll probably settle for an i386 as long as it works
[01:21] <jsgotangco> me and mhz talked about this in passing earlier
[01:21] <flint> jsgotangco, where are you?  maybe we can find a donation.
[01:21] <jsgotangco> we might make a TOC on the wiki
[01:21] <JaneW> jsgotangco: that's great, cos many people don;t know/care about the technical stuff, they just wanna know what end user stuff they can DO with it
[01:21] <JaneW> I like the idea a LOT
[01:21] <jsgotangco> flint, i'm in +8 (Manila)
[01:22] <mhz> jsgotangco: I already have the junior part 90% ready with Gcompris (in spanish)
[01:22] <jsgotangco> it won't take that much time on my side and workable on a weekend
[01:22] <JaneW> mhz is this similar to what you spoke to me about before?
[01:22] <flint> jsgotangco, ok how do I ship a computer to you?  also do you need the monitor?
[01:22] <mhz> JaneW: before?
[01:22] <ogra> jsgotangco, i'll look up the last working liveCD for you ... there you can make screenshots ..
[01:22] <jsgotangco> flint, let's discuss that later
[01:22] <JaneW> mhz: the spanish docs
[01:23] <flint> jsgotangco, email me flint@flint.com
[01:23] <pips1> jsgotangco, I have a working AMD64 edubuntu dapper... yours is broken? oh, you need the hardware ?!
[01:23] <jsgotangco> the good thing is that we (docteam) already have good fondation templates
[01:23] <mhz> JaneW: ohh, 2 weeks ago,, yes. And we'll put some parts together with jsgotangco (me has to translate them now :D )
[01:23] <jsgotangco> pips1, heh i have 3 amd64 machines here
[01:23] <JaneW> mhz: cool
[01:23] <ogra> pips1, i'm fine, but i dont have time to make screenshots currently
[01:23] <jsgotangco> i can do the shots
[01:23] <ogra> pips1, jsgotangco has no working installation
[01:23] <jsgotangco> i can just update this dapper too
[01:23] <jsgotangco> and grab the apps instead
[01:23] <JaneW> ogra: have we got our 3 themes etc ready? (I mean icons and fonts etc)
[01:24] <ogra> JaneW, not at all ... 
[01:24] <ogra> art freeze is still far out
[01:24] <jsgotangco> yeah
[01:24] <mhz> yeah!
[01:24] <jsgotangco> i'll churn out an email this week about this
[01:24] <ogra> JaneW, and i havent anything from silbs yet
[01:24] <jsgotangco> i first have to make a docbook framework then commit
[01:24] <mhz> JaneW: I am very worried about this
[01:25] <jsgotangco> the worst we could do is use the existing human theme
[01:25] <jsgotangco> which isn't bad
[01:25] <JaneW> ogra: I know we don;t have the silbs stuff but aren;t we chosing our own icons and fonts etc again...?
[01:25] <jsgotangco> the docs should build here:
[01:25] <jsgotangco> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/about-edubuntu/C/index.html
[01:25] <jsgotangco> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu-releasenotes/C/index.html
[01:25] <jsgotangco> but they'll 404 for now
[01:25] <JaneW> I still have to say I like the current distinct look edubuntu has, I don't think it should be too similar to ubuntu
[01:25] <jsgotangco> give it a few hours
[01:26] <ogra> JaneW, yes, i havent gotten to this yet, the gdm theme breakage and gnome-settings-daemon breakage were more important for themeing yet ...
[01:26] <JaneW> jsgotangco: ta, will you post to #edu too later please? 
[01:26] <jsgotangco> yes
[01:26] <JaneW> ogra: do you need someone to look into it?
[01:26] <jsgotangco> when the cron starts to build
[01:26] <ogra> JaneW, did you read my report above ? 
[01:26] <ogra> JaneW, i fixed it ;)
[01:27] <JaneW> we have some very competant graphic oriented people here
[01:27] <JaneW> ogra: yes I read it
[01:27] <ogra> but that prevented me from doing any other artwork stuff :)
[01:27] <JaneW> ogra: it didn;t talk about the actual themes to be applied....
[01:27] <JaneW> ogra: sure
[01:27] <JaneW> ogra: I am asking more about the selection now though
[01:27] <flint> ogra ares gratia jane...
[01:27] <ogra> how about a call for submissions to the ML ?
[01:28] <ogra> and we vote for the young and old theme then ...
[01:28] <ogra> (the mid one will be silbs job)
[01:28] <mhz> JaneW: I stopped the theming plans only because there were uncertainties on priorities about artwork and I had to wisely use the resources
[01:28] <JaneW> ogra: agreed
[01:28] <flint> ogra, how "pluggable" are the themes in the code now?
[01:29] <mhz> JaneW: however, I have been working little by little on a XFCE theme for edubuntu highschool
[01:29] <JaneW> ogra: I was just trying to gather if you had all the requirements identified and selected already or if we still need to look and decide etc
[01:29] <ogra> flint, dpkg-reconfigure edubuntu-artwork gives you a menu to select the age
[01:30] <flint> ogra so edubuntu-artwork is the selector switch...  ok I will screw around with it in breezy...
[01:30] <ogra> JaneW, i havent yet ... i'm focussing on feature freeze, so coding is my highest priority
[01:30] <JaneW> ogra: understood, as it should be
[01:30] <ogra> flint, not much difference yet ... all three themes are the same 
[01:31] <JaneW> ok can the rest of you look at other themey kind of things and see if you can find stuff that yells 'edubuntu' and 'professional' ;)
[01:31] <flint> ogra, it is all about the mechanism silly man... :^)
[01:31] <mhz> JaneW: then junior and olds ?
[01:31] <ogra> mhz, yes
[01:31] <JaneW> yes we have junior, senior and plain
[01:31] <mhz> GTK + icons + backgrounds ?
[01:32] <flint> JaneW, gotta have cooler names than junior, senior and plain!!!!
[01:32] <JaneW> plain is simple and monochrome as possible for people who don't want distractions on the desktop at all
[01:32] <ogra> mhz, no GTK 
[01:32] <pips1> in  dpkg-reconfigure edubuntu-artwork it uses the terms "primary", "secondary" and "highschool" ...
[01:32] <ogra> mhz, icons, splashscreen and backgrounds
[01:32] <ogra> pips1, i'm open for better naming suggestions
[01:32] <JaneW> we had someone saying he is a teacher and wants his kids to learn and do what they are supposed to and not want to PLAY.
[01:32] <JaneW> pah
[01:32] <mhz> ogra: oh, ok
[01:33] <flint> JaneW, don't go down the road of work and play, not here, not now :^)
[01:33] <pips1> ogra, JaneW : should it be "junior", "senior" and "plain", then?
[01:33] <ogra> that would also require menu changes we cant do yet
[01:33] <ogra> (play/non play)
[01:34] <JaneW> ok so can everyone have a look at the available options and we can nominate at next week's meeting?
[01:34] <ogra> pips1, sounds good to me ...
[01:34] <flint> ogra, so the doce says primairy, secondary and high school eh?
[01:34] <pips1> doce, hehe :-)
[01:34] <JaneW> ok do we need to discuss the web and wiki?
[01:34] <ogra> currently, yes ... but thats an interinm anyway ... just to show we *can* distinguish now+
[01:35] <JaneW> we agreed that we will migrate the HTML pages to moin
[01:35] <ogra> the naming isnt mandatory
[01:35] <JaneW> pips1: did you hear about that?^
[01:35] <pips1> JaneW, yeah, I read that you decided on Moin at the last meeting... :-/ 
[01:35] <JaneW> we also need some new content and orgnaisation on the wiki and web pages
[01:35] <JaneW> pips1: sorry, but it does makes sense in this case
[01:36] <pips1> in the absence of the "web team" ;-)
[01:36] <JaneW> many of the articles which are published quote directly from our pages
[01:36] <JaneW> I think it's time we put some new words up there...
[01:36] <mhz> JaneW: and we received a suggestion to have 'front page' showing changes or news so it doesnt look as if we did nothing :)
[01:36] <pips1> where is highvoltage ?
[01:37] <JaneW> also it will tie in nicely if we relaunch the page with an updated look for the new version too
[01:37] <mhz> and with shots from ...Book
[01:37] <mhz> or Guide
[01:37] <JaneW> mhz: yes, we do need a webmaster to keep the pages fresh and up to date
[01:37] <pips1> sorry, I am trying to catch up re the website ...
[01:37] <jsgotangco> JaneW, are these pages in a separate server? i thought it was in the same servers as that of ubuntu
[01:38] <mhz> JaneW: we need a 'teacher-users' community
[01:38] <mhz> so they can provide 'weekly news'
[01:38] <JaneW> jsgotangco: I am nt sure where the html pages are now, but the wiki will be on the same as the rest of ubuntu like the wiki afaik
[01:38] <pips1> I was very busy in the last months with my day job, but this week I started working on the edubuntu website idea again... 
[01:38] <flint> mhz, as opposed to what?
[01:38] <mhz> JaneW: otherwise all news willbe 99% IT related from ubuntu
[01:39] <JaneW> pips1: great, your suggestions where very helpful before
[01:39] <pips1> I was hoping to touch base with highvoltage today...
[01:39] <JaneW> highvoltage has been helping intermittently, but is also very busy with his day job
[01:39] <pips1> ah
[01:39] <flint> mhz, teachers-users support and development somewhere else?  Like the dining room and the kitchen?  promising idea.
[01:39] <JaneW> pips1: me too, not sure where he is
[01:39] <JaneW> pips1: you got his e-mail address?
[01:39] <pips1> well, I'm actually taking time off work (compensating overtime) now!
[01:39] <mhz> flint: yup, something like that
[01:40] <JaneW> flint: I think we must be careful not to take the analogy too far and become really corny
[01:40] <pips1> is the decisision about using Moin cast in stone now?
[01:40] <mhz> pips1: so it seems
[01:40] <JaneW> pips1: well we can't keep changing our minds
[01:40] <JaneW> pips1: but we need someone to own and drive it
[01:40] <flint> jane corn on the cob or in a casserole? hehe
[01:40] <JaneW> pips1: I reckon that person gets the strongest vote
[01:41] <pips1> I wanted to suggest you give me some time, let's say two weeks to get a drupal site running to convince you to go ahead with drupal... what does everybody think?
[01:41] <JaneW> pips1: hno73 likes mojn and the main ubuntu site is running in moin now, so it does make sense
[01:41] <JaneW> pips1: ogra wasn't that happy about drupal security
[01:42] <ogra> JaneW, in fact i dont care if i dont have to maintin it ... 
[01:42] <flint> JaneW, .... anyway that was a metaphore not an analogy.... (what a college education will do for you :^)  did we not settle this site issue last week?
[01:42] <JaneW> ogra: good attitude! :))
[01:42] <ogra> i just pointed out that it ends in upgrade hell ...
[01:42] <mhz> pips1: and mhz would get crazy if we get back to drupal proposal after he had accepted Drupal and then got surprised we would use lovely Moin
[01:42] <pips1> drupal, even though it's php, has a very strong community, good core devs, and hasn't had many vulnerabilities so far... i.e. its track record is better than most php fare...
[01:43] <ogra> i think its up to the guys working with it to decide about the tool ...
[01:43] <JaneW> flint: right it's a metaphor, but I'd argue that it's an analogy too :P
[01:43] <pips1> ogra, right
[01:44] <mhz> well, I am sure hno73 will go for Moin and I sill stand defending it :D
[01:44] <JaneW> pips1: there was an issue with getting a server to host drupal, and getting our sys admins to find time to do it
[01:44] <JaneW> pips1: moin took that requirement away
[01:44] <pips1> I understand there are pros and cons about moin vs. drupal but I think ogra and JaneW are right, it comes down to the question who owns and drives it...
[01:44] <pips1> JaneW, right
[01:44] <flint> pips1, keep in mind that I am a rabid zope freak, (taking a zope 3 course with Richter!) and I keep my passion under control drupal is rightous but they made a call.
[01:45] <JaneW> this was 'resolved' last week
[01:45] <JaneW> however nothing has been done with either yet afaik
[01:45] <flint> I was heartbroken that zope 2 did not make the cut :^)
[01:45] <JaneW> pips1: if you can commit to it I am not opposed to you putting something together which can be voted on
[01:46] <pips1> flint, zope is cool, but it always depends on what your goals are... :-)
[01:46] <mhz> but, if there is time and willingness isn't better to use time resource in helping with dapper stuff?
[01:46] <mhz> or dapper complements?
[01:46] <mhz> .oO(hmm, maybe not 'complements' but complementary material)
[01:47] <mhz> jsgotangco: Interrogation!
[01:47] <flint> JaneW, the impression I am beginning to get is that you want to use the "gentlemen start you engines" project management approach.  If someone does something well you will embrace it.
[01:47] <pips1> JaneW, yes, ok, I think that's what we should do... I spend the next two weeks with getting a "drupal edubuntu site demo" and then let's vote about it.. if people prefer to go the moin/ubuntu way after that, it's fine with me...
[01:48] <jsgotangco> yes
[01:48] <JaneW> flint: this is a community project (apart from possibly ogra) I can't really make anyone do anything
[01:48] <flint> pips1, i was unserious about zope, as I have no intention of investing any time in developing the site I just want to use it.  I am good with the demo idea.
[01:48] <mhz> ogra: if I finish XFCE theming next week, could you make it available for dapper time?
[01:48] <jsgotangco> flint, we're volunteers
[01:48] <jsgotangco> ogra and JaneW are the only ones paid to do this
[01:48] <JaneW> flint: all I can do is hope they are excited enough by what needs to be done to want to help, and to harness that it;s something we can use
[01:49] <ogra> mhz, i can package it, but i think janimo would be the better guy to ask about xfce temes 
[01:49] <JaneW> it;s=into
[01:49] <mhz> ogra: sure, but I mean this is XFCE edubuntu theme
[01:49] <JaneW> flint: granted PMing the ubuntu project is more work but FAR easier
[01:50] <ogra> yes, we can package xfce-edubuntu-theme for universe, no problem with that ... main will need a main inclusion report and a review ... 
[01:50] <neuralis> janew, ogra: i am happy to provide drupal hosting on a well-connected server, and ssh access for edubuntu developers.
[01:50] <flint> JaneW, what is in it for the perpertrator of this web site beyond bragging rights, think of some excellent reward.  sometthing that will forever grant bragging rights imho.
[01:50] <pips1> Can I get some thumbs up/votes on me giving drupal a spin for a demo we all vote on in two weeks?
[01:50] <jsgotangco> you're given an edubuntu.org forwarder hehe
[01:50] <jsgotangco> joke
[01:50] <mhz> pips1: but, if there is time and willingness isn't better to use time resource in helping with dapper stuff? and leave drupal/moin voting for Abril 27th and on
[01:51] <flint> mhz, not a lot we can do about the upstream breakage eh ollie?
[01:51] <JaneW> sorry I am in decision paralysis on this one
[01:51] <mhz> ogra: okis, thx,I'll try t find time to finish it durinf bnext week
[01:51] <JaneW> the camp is divided
[01:52] <ogra> JaneW, flip a krugerrand ? 
[01:52] <pips1> mhz, well, i've made a headstart with drupal (it's running a test machine of mine) and I want to test drive it for my own good, too ;-)
[01:52] <JaneW> ogra: yeah right, I have a huge pile right here ;)
[01:52] <flint> JaneW, I advise going for a demo.  what can it hurt?  Oliver what do you think (i don't care is an optioinal answer :^).
[01:52] <ogra> heh, i knew you all have them in buckets :)
[01:53] <JaneW> I think mhz, pips1, hno73 and highvoltage have to 'meet' and decide once and for all, it's their combined project after all
[01:53] <ogra> flint, sure ...
[01:53] <ogra> JaneW, ++
[01:53] <flint> JaneW, good idea.
[01:54] <pips1> JaneW, that's four people, we need an uneven number ;-)
[01:54] <JaneW> ok I will set up a meeting for friday 12:00 utc, anyone who cares can be there, and we can hash it out for the last time
[01:54] <flint> throw all the web-heads in a room and make them play "tag"!
[01:54] <flint> JaneW, that's when I wash my hair!!
[01:54] <JaneW> pips1: well which ever camp manages to round up the most supporters wins
[01:54] <JaneW> AND they get to do the damn work afterwards too! :)
[01:55] <jsgotangco> JaneW, it shouldn't exceed 2 hours, it'll clash with docteam meeting at 14UTC
[01:55] <jsgotangco> they could do it in 
[01:55] <JaneW> 1 hour at the most 
[01:55] <jsgotangco> #edubuntu
[01:55] <jsgotangco> :D
[01:55] <JaneW> jsgotangco: ok yes, we can stay in #edub
[01:55] <pips1> JaneW, flint : no joke, on friday I have an appointment with a hair dresser! :-D
[01:55] <JaneW> I'll send a mail
[01:56] <pips1> JaneW, is another date/time ok? if not, I'll move my appointment, no prob
[01:56] <flint> JaneW, high noon, show down at the #edubuntu corrale... this is the stuff of legend! 
[01:56] <JaneW> of course if you have stuff to demo to support your arguments all the better...
[01:56] <flint> pips1, i cannot breath i am laughing too hard...
[01:56] <JaneW> pips1: well earlier is too early for the states...
[01:56] <pips1> flint, LOL
[01:56] <JaneW> tomorrow?
[01:56] <mhz> it depends on hno73 possibilities
[01:57] <pips1> what, that gives me today to come up with a demo?!
[01:57] <JaneW> pips1: monday....?
[01:57] <pips1> monday sounds better :-)
[01:57] <mhz> .oO("tell me why I dont like Mondays..")
[01:57] <JaneW> mhz: are you ok with this?^
[01:58] <pips1> mhz, hehe
[01:58] <mhz> JaneW: why not, but I am concerned about 2 things
[01:58] <flint> pips1, friday has more romance to it.  talk to your coiffure maybe.
[01:58] <pips1> flint, sorry for spoiling your friday romance, friday is hair day! ;-)
[01:59] <JaneW> I think monday is good, we need to focus on flight 4 this week anyway
[01:59] <JaneW> ok anything else?
[01:59] <JaneW> time nearly up
[01:59] <JaneW> I will send that mail now, 12:00UTC monday
[01:59] <jsgotangco> coll with me
[01:59] <pips1> monday, 12 UTC on #edubuntu, then?
[01:59] <mhz> JaneW: highvoltage did work on something and I have no clue why we didn' test it,  AND hno73 has dedicated a lot of work on preparing a Moin version once decided drupal was not the option. So.. too much wasted time and resources
[01:59] <mhz> ogra: those are
[02:00] <ogra> yup
[02:00] <JaneW> mhz: I do agree with you
[02:00] <mhz> it's like we tell ogra... you know, we wont release edubuntu
[02:00] <mhz> we'll use RPMs now
[02:00] <flint> so I should get to work on the zope python based drupal moin emulator on my zope 3 platform eh?
[02:00] <ogra> mhz, haha
[02:01] <mhz> flint: lol
[02:01] <pips1> mhz, maybe it's better if we talk with hno73 and highvoltage...
[02:01] <jsgotangco> afaik hno73 is on a roll with moin as we have started with theopencd site and ubuntu
[02:01] <flint> pips1, i want you to know that I feel left out and hurt...
[02:01] <mhz> pips1: well, yes, of course we must, we owe them at leastr that
[02:01] <flint> pips1, and relieved :^) 
[02:01] <jsgotangco> we're even *this* close to having the whole moin de run off the cd on the livecd
[02:02] <JaneW> I think mhz, pips1, hno73 and highvoltage have to 'meet' and decide once and for all, it's their combined project after all
[02:02] <JaneW> as I said before
[02:02] <jsgotangco> yeah
[02:02] <mhz> well, okis
[02:02] <pips1> flint, I don't see you having a prob of not getting heard ;-)
[02:03] <flint> ogra, final prophesy, when do we get a testable flight 4?  
[02:03] <mhz> I'd prefer hno73 and highvoltage set the time. they have spent the most efforts on website issues sor far
[02:03] <flint> pips1, point well taken and graciously accepted!
[02:03] <jsgotangco> ogra, can we change the menu System -> About Ubuntu to About Edubuntu?
[02:03] <JaneW> ok meeting over
[02:03] <ogra> flint, i predict you if the moon goes blue and the swans fly south-east 
[02:03] <flint> pips1, I do want to stay away from your kitchen, I just want to eat the resulting meal.
[02:03] <ogra> :P
[02:03] <JaneW> I will scribe a tactful e-mail now
[02:03] <ogra> no idea, really
[02:04] <mhz> JaneW: thx for the order ;)
[02:04] <pips1> JaneW, ah!
[02:04] <JaneW> mhz: this group is a herd of cats....
[02:04] <ogra> flint, i hope this week ...
[02:04] <flint> ogra, how did elkner get by the chroot problem on flight 3?
[02:04] <ogra> (everyone does)
[02:04] <ogra> flint, did he have one ? 
[02:04] <flint> did he do something terrible like nfs over from the previous flight?
[02:05] <flint> ogra, ollie he is RUNNING it live in his class!!!
[02:05] <ogra> i have no idea, i didnt hear anything from him...
[02:05] <ogra> dapper ? 
[02:05] <ogra> he runs dapper in a production environment ????
[02:05] <flint> ogra, would I kid you about a thing like this?  Dapper indeed!
[02:05] <ogra> creazy guy ... 
[02:05] <mhz> ogra: just one last question regarding slibs artwork.. will we have a mascot for ubuntu dapper?
[02:05] <ogra> it can break every now and then 
[02:05] <flint> ogra, I will check, but the man has the worst case of versionitus this side of fate.
[02:05] <jsgotangco> lol
[02:06] <jsgotangco> hehehe
[02:06] <jsgotangco> BEAUTIFUL FONTS
[02:06] <ogra> mhz, i doubt that
[02:06] <flint> I have a duck on crutches as artwork hold on i will get the url...
[02:06] <JaneW> mhz: apparently it's the last of the human themed releases
[02:06] <ogra> flint, i'm *working* on it ... i often upload packages with feaqtures i taest later in a bunch ...
[02:06] <mhz> jsgotangco: can we meet sometime to talk about quickie?
[02:07] <jsgotangco> mhz, i don't want to do a quickie with you jeezz
[02:07] <JaneW> LOL
[02:07] <ogra> flint, so it can easily break ...
[02:07] <flint> check out http://www.flint.com/wvus
[02:07] <JaneW> you two take it outside!
[02:07] <mhz> jsgotangco: lol! why not?
[02:07] <flint> JaneW, no, you have to look at my duck!
[02:08] <flint> ogra, this duck can be rehabilitated.  It used to be the mascot for the radio station i ran in college...
[02:08] <ogra> hehe
[02:09] <mhz> jsgotangco: but we have to find a proper name ;)  Breezy Budger, Dapper Drake, etc
[02:09] <jsgotangco> ?
[02:09] <jsgotangco> mhz, i'll try to think of a wiki page later
[02:09] <flint> JaneW, i think it is a fine duck.  it talks to handicapped access....
[02:09] <flint> JaneW, ok i give up.
[02:09] <JaneW> mhz: "Our current plan is that the Dapper Drake (Ubuntu 6.04 if we hit our April 2006 release date goal) will be the last of this first "set" of releases. So post-Dapper we have the opportunity to define a new "feel" or overarching theme. It would be unlikely to be... blue. But it might be substantially different to the current Human theme. For the moment, let's stay focused on the road to Dapper, polish up the existing Human theme
[02:09] <JaneW>  to the max for that, and then break new ground post-Dapper."
[02:09] <mhz> jsgotangco: anyways, could we talk about it later?
[02:09] <jsgotangco> sure
[02:09] <JaneW> mhz: from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkShuttleworth
[02:09] <mhz> jsgotangco: like the contents and the division of them?
[02:10] <jsgotangco> yes
[02:10] <ogra> (note the *might* in that sentence)
[02:10] <mhz> JaneW: yeah
[02:10] <jsgotangco> we'll use pink next time
[02:11] <flint> i am a bit miffed that no one likes my... duck. :^(
[02:11] <flint> lol
[02:11] <mhz> jsgotangco: oh, you are in a night time now?
[02:11] <JaneW> flint: I am sure even you could see that a handicapped duck would not be the imagery of choice for a robust 5-year-support release.
[02:11] <jsgotangco> mhz, 9PM to be precise
[02:11] <mhz> jsgotangco: so, hmm which UTC is good gor you at my time ?
[02:11] <flint> JaneW, sniff... oh ok...
[02:11] <ogra> flint, i like it ...
[02:12] <mhz> jsgotangco: at my time =  considerin gmy time
[02:12] <jsgotangco> mhz, i can do 3 hours more starting now
[02:12] <flint> ogra, thanks ollie let get a cigi.
[02:12] <ogra> yes :)
[02:12] <ogra> and a coffee
[02:12] <flint> indeede
[02:12] <jsgotangco> flint, i would be gracious with a PPC
[02:12] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:12] <pips1> flint, saw your duck and died! 
[02:12] <jsgotangco> joke
[02:12] <jsgotangco> s/gracious/grateful
[02:12] <flint> pips1, hash duck joke!
[02:13] <flint> JaneW, this is another example of why you should not cast your ducks before swine! :^)
[02:13] <JaneW> ok let's get the duck out of here...
[02:13] <pips1> LOL
[02:13] <mhz> jsgotangco: hmmm, I have to cook quickly then. Tell you what let's say 14:00 UTC and if I can't make it (house stuff) then 24 UTC ?
[02:14] <flint> JaneW, I vow to never again expose my duck in this foum.
[02:14] <mhz> flint: flint, fint
[02:14] <jsgotangco> mhz, no problem no rush dude
[02:14] <flint> \foum\forum
[02:14] <mhz> jsgotangco: rush? yes, for me. It will mean I have to write sthe stuff in 2 languages
[02:14] <pips1> shouldn't we all duck out and dip into #edubuntu now?
[02:14] <ogra> yup
[02:15] <flint> ok then thanks for the excellent meeting Jane!
[02:15] <mhz> yeahm thanks everyone
[02:15] <pips1> cheerio
[07:59] <TheMuso> Hey heno.
[07:59] <heno> TheMuso: hi :)
[08:00] <TheMuso> I know.
[08:00] <heno> :)
[08:01] <heno> I got tired of the numbers in the nick
[08:01] <TheMuso> Fair enough. I recognised your ISP designation for your connection.
[08:01] <heno> ah, ok
[08:04] <heno> Yes, I'd be interested to see how that works for you
[08:04] <heno> The text might be a bit small
[08:04] <TheMuso> I'll see once it is burnt.
[08:05] <TheMuso> Do you know whether anybody else is coming?
[08:05] <heno> No. Anybody here? :)
[08:06] <heno> we might be able to catch dholbach
[08:06] <dholbach> hello
[08:06] <Seveas> don't drop him
[08:07] <dholbach> i thought the meeting was thursday :)
[08:07] <heno> Jason was writing on the list earlier today. What's his nick?
[08:07] <heno> dholbach: it's thursday fror TheMuso
[08:07] <TheMuso> jgrieves I think, but he is not currently online.
[08:08] <heno> ah, ok. well, we can keep it short
[08:08] <TheMuso> At approx 6:10 AM. :)
[08:08] <heno> I think things are comming together fairly well, technically
[08:09] <dholbach> sorry, was just on the phone
[08:09] <heno> we even have an agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda
[08:09] <dholbach> rock n roll! :)
[08:10] <dholbach> i suppose it's too late for jsgotangco :)
[08:10] <heno> I keep pushing on about the Live CD, but I think it's very important
[08:10] <dholbach> (tried to remember who else attended our meetings the last times)
[08:10] <TheMuso> mhz, kjcole I think it was.
[08:10] <dholbach> heno: I think it'S important as well.
[08:10] <dholbach> TheMuso: right.
[08:11] <heno> It's the main vehicle for distribution now, and so it's 100% mainstream
[08:11] <heno> (to the extent Linux is mainstream ...)
[08:11] <heno> I think if we get this one right we will attract lots of users and contributors for the next cycle
[08:12] <TheMuso> I agree.
[08:12] <heno> It may not be scratching each of our personal itches perfectly, but I think strategically is is key
[08:12] <dholbach> I just had a look at the LiveCD page, what is the flite reader?
[08:13] <dholbach> Oh, I never realized we had that one.
[08:13] <heno> dholbach: we had to go with flite instead of Festival due to disc space
[08:13] <heno> 8mb vs 40mb
[08:13] <dholbach> Right. :-)
[08:13] <TheMuso> Flite is an alternate speech synthesizer which is smaller than festival. However, it can not be used with gnopernicus and gnome-speech at this time, unless someone writes a driver for it.
[08:14] <TheMuso> Unless there is something I don't know about.
[08:14] <heno> TheMuso: really? gah! it doesn't work with gnopernicus?
[08:14] <heno> that's bad news
[08:14] <TheMuso> No. There is no flite driver in gnome-speech.
[08:14] <TheMuso> We could get it to work if we were to add the latest speech-dispatcher release, as well as the speech-dispatcher gnome-speech driver, which could use flite that way.
[08:15] <heno> And I assume it's not a 2-day job
[08:15] <dholbach> I keep trying on getting gnome-orca in, but python-at-spi didn't hit the archive yet. :/
[08:15] <TheMuso> No, I certainly don't hink so, as the gnome-speech drivers are not very simple.
[08:16] <TheMuso> dholbach: Maybe were should leave that for another release, as it is still being developed, and IMO it needs a better user interface before it can be considered an option.
[08:16] <dholbach> Althought I'm not sure, how much better orca would be or if it'd do the job we wanted it to.
[08:16] <dholbach> TheMuso: ok.
[08:16] <heno> So, that's a fly in the ointment. How big are the speech dispatcher things?
[08:16] <dholbach> TheMuso: I'll still try to get it in, it can't hurt to have it in Universe and people testing it.
[08:17] <TheMuso> dholbach: True.
[08:17] <heno> Orca is the future I guess though. So Dapper+1 should be good
[08:17] <TheMuso> heno: Speech dispatcher is not very big as far as I know, but we need the 0.6 branch, as well as the gnome-speech driver, which as far as I know, should be in GNOME CVS.
[08:17] <dholbach> TheMuso: On the NewSoftware page you pointed out you were working on some other packages - do you want me to look at those?
[08:18] <TheMuso> ?
[08:18] <Mithrandir> heno: can we touch bases at some point wrt accessability and the live cd?  I know I should do something to enable it, but I can't remember what.
[08:18] <heno> so it might be fairly instable stuff, and it's getting late in the cycle ...
[08:18] <TheMuso> dholbach: Packages?
[08:18] <TheMuso> heno: Yeah.
[08:18] <TheMuso> I know.
[08:18] <dholbach> TheMuso: wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/NewSoftware
[08:19] <heno> Mithrandir: sure. Press F4 for a start
[08:19] <dholbach> TheMuso: "Speech Dispatcher" and "gnome-speech driver for speech-dispatcher"
[08:19] <Mithrandir> heno: tomorrow, possibly?
[08:20] <TheMuso> Yeah I see it. Trouble is, that the newer driver is probably in GNOME cvs now.
[08:20] <heno> Mithrandir: sure that'd be good
[08:20] <dholbach> TheMuso: which gnome module is that?
[08:20] <TheMuso> gnome-speech
[08:20] <heno> btw, there is a screenshot here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GreatFeaturesOfUbuntu?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=AT-boot-menu.png
[08:20] <dholbach> TheMuso: i make a note to look at it
[08:21] <TheMuso> dholbach: I am going to check the latest gnome-speech source in dapper as well, and then check CVS.
[08:21] <dholbach> TheMuso: cool
[08:23] <heno> So, you guys who know this better TheMuso, dholbach what are the chances we can get a screen reader working on the CD for dapper?
[08:23] <dholbach> I'll try to have a look at the other packages on NewSoftware too, because we'll have to have them in for Feature Freeze (Feb 23rd)
[08:23] <heno> Do we need a backup plan?
[08:24] <TheMuso> heno: I am thinking we might, because there is a chance that others won't agree in firstly pushing a new release of a universe package up to main, and then requesting the addition of what seems to be only CVS code at the moment.
[08:24] <dholbach> What are screen reader alternatives we have?
[08:25] <TheMuso> For GNOME, none really. It is the gnome-speech package that is giving us these problems at the moment.
[08:26] <TheMuso> dholbach: I am just checking gnome-speech out of CVS now.
[08:26] <TheMuso> As it is not in the latest dapper package.
[08:26] <heno> The good new is that if the software isn't perfect it doesn't affect a large number of people
[08:26] <mjg59> Fixing gnome-speech to use a sensible TTS would also help dasher
[08:26] <TheMuso> There is a chance that the GNOME devs may hold off including it in gnome-speech for a while anyway.
[08:26] <heno> if you see what I mean. It's not the kernel
[08:26] <TheMuso> I know what you mean. We will still certainly be able to fulfill the other profiles.
[08:26] <heno> mjg59: so you will help :) ?
[08:26] <TheMuso> dholbach: What is the story on the XDamage extension bug for gnome-mag that I submitted?
[08:27] <TheMuso> I don't remember seeing anything about it being added.
[08:27] <mjg59> We're not bound by upstream decisions. If there's a compelling functionality reason to include unreleased upstream code, we should do so
[08:27] <mjg59> heno: I'm short on time right now, I'm afraid
[08:27] <dholbach> TheMuso: The problem was, that for some video drivers it made gnome-mag completely unusable
[08:27] <mjg59> (And have to go for food now, back later)
[08:27] <dholbach> TheMuso: i can check it with a new version again
[08:28] <dholbach> TheMuso: daniels said that it surely might be an X problem
[08:28] <TheMuso> dholbach: That might be a good idea, as it makes it work much better.
[08:28] <dholbach> Ok
[08:28] <dholbach> I'll do that
[08:29] <TheMuso> Looks like the speech-dispatcher driver is indeed in CVS.
[08:29] <dholbach> TheMuso: that sounds promising
[08:29] <dholbach> hi jbailey :)
[08:30] <jbailey> =)
[08:30] <jbailey> Sorry I'm late. =)
[08:30] <heno> OK, so in reference to this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/LiveCDsettings that means there there is still full uncertainty about #3, but we should be able to settle the other 5 quite easily
[08:30] <heno> jbailey: hi :)
[08:30] <TheMuso> heno: That sounds about right,.
[08:31] <heno> So in my last testing of the Live CD it didn't actually do any AT stuff
[08:31] <TheMuso> Right.
[08:32] <heno> that depends on us completing that page and communicating it to Kamion
[08:33] <heno> Shall we skip to point #3?
[08:33] <heno> It's related to the CD
[08:33] <heno> It would be helpful to have some introductory info on it
[08:33] <heno> for those who are using these features
[08:33] <TheMuso> heno: I also think we need something about just what is possible with the accessibility tools, as there will be people who haven't used them before.
[08:34] <heno> I've made a start here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/doc/Intro
[08:34] <dholbach> heno: a "start"! That looks good! :-)
[08:35] <heno> right. I think it should be clearly divided though into 'What is currently available on the CD you are using"
[08:35] <heno> and "What can be istalled later"
[08:35] <TheMuso> Yeah.
[08:35] <dholbach> yeah, that sounds good
[08:35] <dholbach> heno: you think we should talk to the doc team to get this into ubuntu-docs as well?
[08:35] <TheMuso> One thing I am not sure about in relation to flite, is whether flite itself is multilingual.
[08:35] <TheMuso> ...I don't think it is, but I could be wrong.
[08:35] <heno> dholbach: That's probably a good idea
[08:36] <heno> TheMuso: AFAIK it's not
[08:36] <TheMuso> I understand about size, but how will that help non-english speakers while installing?
[08:36] <heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/doc/Guide is much more detailed, but also needs more work
[08:37] <heno> it needs to be updated for dapper and fleshed out
[08:37] <heno> that is where doc vteam help would be most useful
[08:37] <dholbach> I'll talk to mdke about it
[08:38] <heno> How many languages does festival have? 8-10?
[08:38] <TheMuso> I don't know, but it has more than flite does.
[08:39] <heno> how well do the speech engines read out other languages? Can it be grokked at all?
[08:39] <heno> Sounds like that would need to go on a DVD?
[08:40] <TheMuso> heno: I don't know, as I have had no reason to use other languages.
[08:40] <dholbach> American English, British English, Italian, Castilian Spanish, general multi-lingual speech synthesis    judging by   apt-cache search festival
[08:41] <heno> It is a problem, but we have to start somewhere. Operating systems need to improve on both AT and translations
[08:41] <TheMuso> Yeah true.
[08:41] <dholbach> Yeah.
[08:41] <heno> but I think including what we have is what we have to do
[08:42] <heno> we could try to make a case for the 40mb Festival of course
[08:42] <heno> but I'm not very optimistic
[08:42] <TheMuso> Thats understandable.
[08:43] <heno> Of course with our own live derivative we can put whatever we want on there
[08:43] <dholbach> at least it'll be on the DVD
[08:43] <heno> That would be extremely easy
[08:43] <dholbach> althought that's not going to be available via shipit
[08:44] <TheMuso> heno: I have a few ideas for the derivative as it is.
[08:44] <heno> just dump some WinFOSS and add Festival
[08:44] <heno> TheMuso: cool
[08:45] <heno> I think it's important to keep in mind that people like Kamion are spending time on this because vit's going into the main version
[08:45] <TheMuso> Yeah
[08:45] <heno> which makes for great features that we can then easily use other places
[08:46] <heno> So a minimal offering may not be a bad thing i the overall picture
[08:46] <heno> because the infrastructure gets put in place
[08:47] <dholbach> I just had a look at "Live CD Testing"
[08:47] <dholbach> do we have kind of a Test Plan?
[08:48] <heno> dholbach: not explicitly, no
[08:48] <heno> weneed to test each of those 6 features on the CD
[08:48] <dholbach> If we had at least some things we want people to look at, I'd link it from http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing
[08:49] <heno> we've been testing the actual apps on installed dapper systems so far
[08:49] <dholbach> I'll forward your gok bug to upstream later. :)
[08:49] <heno> OK, so: fire up the CD 6 times, and see if it does ABC ...
[08:50] <heno> dholbach: did you confirm it?
[08:50] <TheMuso> We may have to wait until the CD is more stable to do testing. I can't boot it atm. It freezes during bootup.
[08:50] <heno> dholbach: is it a gok or gnome bug?
[08:50] <dholbach> heno: it did work for me - so I asked you back for the versions
[08:50] <dholbach> heno: I think it'd important to get in touch with upstream asap about it.
[08:50] <heno> dholbach: yep. I'll fit it in thanks. Latest dapper though
[08:50] <dholbach> heno: so they'll tell us, what to test next
[08:51] <dholbach> heno: ah ok, that suffices
[08:51] <heno> TheMuso: hm. I guess fligh4 should be better
[08:51] <heno> expected vthis week
[08:51] <TheMuso> Is that due any time soon?
[08:51] <dholbach> yes
[08:51] <TheMuso> Ah right.
[08:51] <dholbach> although there's no fixed date i know of
[08:52] <heno> I'll write a simple testing plan page before then
[08:52] <dholbach> heno: That's great
[08:52] <heno> (unless it's in a few hours ...)
[08:52] <dholbach> heno: I already added Testing/ to the dapper flight 4 announce, I'll make a special note about a11y additionally
[08:53] <heno> yay!
[08:53] <heno> I've added it to the flight4 info page as well and Great Features of Ubuntu
[08:53] <dholbach> Cool. :-)
[08:53] <heno> so it should feature on the flash demo if that gets made
[08:54] <heno> Right. So I think we've covered some good ground
[08:55] <dholbach> Just to check back: is there any other software I should have a look in and package?
[08:55] <heno> there is quite a bit of stuff we should catch up on amongst ourselves, by ML, email, phone
[08:55] <dholbach> You'd need to tell me before Feb 23rd. :-)
[08:55] <dholbach> Yeah.
[08:56] <dholbach> Thanks TheMuso and heno for your initiative and involvement.
[08:56] <heno> so that means completing this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/LiveCDsettings is quite urgent
[08:56] <heno> dholbach: thanks for your involvement and packing!
[08:57] <TheMuso> The profiles look good to me, it is just the speech implementation that could be sticky as far as I can see.
[08:57] <dholbach> I didn't do much for the a11y team in the last days, but I'm very happy about our team - the amount of subscribers to the mailing lists is still rising, so there's a lot of interest
[08:58] <heno> There is still some work to be done in identifying the right config settings in the various files
[08:58] <TheMuso> heno: Yeah true.
[08:59] <dholbach> We're 35 people on the ML.
[08:59] <raphink> still one minute to get here 
[08:59] <heno> dholbach: what's the best way to track down config flags?
[08:59] <raphink> :)
[08:59] <raphink> yeah
[08:59] <dholbach> heno: config flags like what?
[08:59] <TheMuso> heno: Do you mean gconf?
[08:59] <dholbach> heno, TheMuso: maybe we should move to #ubuntu-accessibility
[08:59] <heno> ok
[08:59] <TheMuso> Fine by me.
[09:02] <pef> hello :)
[09:03] <jpatrick> bonsoir pef
[09:03] <mruiz> hi 
[09:06] <raphink> yop pef 
[09:06] <pef> raphink: salut :)
[09:06] <pef> ca fait plaisir de voir de plus en plus de francophones :] 
[09:06] <raphink> pef: clair :)
[09:06] <raphink> pef: d'autant que Tonio est galement MOTU depuis hier ;)
[09:07] <raphink> pef: ce qui fait 3 francophones parmi les 5 MOTUs Kubuntu je crois ;)
[09:07] <jbailey> Le rendez-vous des MOTU c'est en Franais?
[09:07] <jpatrick> times like this when I wish I had better french skills
[09:07] <raphink> jbailey: :)
[09:07] <dholbach> jbailey: tout les jours - c'est comme #ubuntu-desktop
[09:08] <dholbach> c'est la conspiration franaise
[09:08] <jbailey> dholbach: Ooo, je ne savais pas ca.  Peut-etre je passerai plus de temps au #ubuntu-desktop. =)
[09:08] <pef> raphink: excellent :)
[09:08] <dholbach> jbailey: Bien sur!
[09:08] <raphink> dholbach: we're in a french team MOTU take over
[09:10] <raphink> like...
[09:10] <raphink> French MOTU-take-over team
[09:10] <raphink> would make more sense maybe
[09:11] <raphink> hmm hmm
[09:11] <raphink> this is a quite place for an imminent meeting
[09:11] <sistpoty> hi... sorry for being late
[09:11] <jbailey> Communaut Francophone des Matre's de l'Univers.
[09:11] <jbailey> -'
[09:12] <raphink> sistpoty: it's ok the meeting has not begun yet
[09:12] <raphink> jbailey: that sounds nice :)
[09:12] <raphink> jbailey: I don't mind being part of it :)
[09:12] <sistpoty> raphink: it didn't?
[09:12] <Riddell> coup d'etats?
[09:12] <raphink> sistpoty: not yet, seems everybody is here but we're kind of waiting for somethign to happen
[09:12] <raphink> maybe for \sh...
[09:12] <raphink> he usually opens meetings
[09:12] <Riddell> is there an agenda?
[09:12] <raphink> sure there is
[09:12] <lfittl> Riddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
[09:13] <sistpoty> do we want to start? (now that I'm here *g*)
[09:13] <raphink> small agenda
[09:13] <raphink> and I'm first 
[09:13] <jbailey> raphink: Sure, but someone would have to check it for grammar before registering the launchpad team.
[09:13] <raphink> jbailey: don't worry I could :p
[09:14] <raphink> hi tseng 
[09:14] <jbailey> raphink: Oh good.  My written grammar is pretty bad.
[09:14] <sistpoty> hi tseng
[09:14] <raphink> ok 
[09:14] <raphink> who is here for the meeting? raise hands
[09:14] <jbailey> I get away with it when speaking, but it's been way too long since I had to type complete sentenses online. =)
[09:15] <Riddell> doing things properly
[09:15] <sistpoty> Riddell: :)
[09:15] <raphink> who is going to make the report, raise foot!
[09:15] <raphink> (so as to not mix hands and feet)
[09:16] <raphink> anyone volunteering for this task though?
[09:16] <Nafallo> oh. MOTU-meeting :-)
[09:16] <Kyral> just in time :D
[09:16] <raphink> Kyral: you are volunteering for report ?
[09:16] <Kyral> oh
[09:16] <raphink> that's nice of you :)
[09:16] <Kyral> no
[09:16] <raphink> lol
[09:16] <Kyral> I'm lost lol
[09:17] <Kyral> Just got outta class
[09:17] <sistpoty> come on, please... any volunteering to do the minutes?
[09:17] <raphink> ok we'll see about reports later then (or I'll do it if nobody will)
[09:17] <raphink> we're already 15 minutes late :)
[09:17] <stratus> i can't do the report because i'll leave in 30 minutes, sorry.
[09:17] <raphink> np sistpoty I'll try and do it 
[09:18] <sistpoty> raphink ++ :)
[09:18] <raphink> hi ogra_ibook 
[09:18] <raphink> ok well let's begin
[09:18] <sistpoty> welcome ladies and gentlemen to just another motu-meeting... :)
[09:18] <raphink> I'm first on the agenda
[09:18] <dholbach> hey sistpoty
[09:18] <sistpoty> hi dholbach
[09:18] <raphink> I've been spamming the list and irc with this
[09:18] <raphink> but just for the people who have not heard about it yet
[09:19] <raphink> I wanted to introduce revu-tools, which is a set of tools based on siretart's revu-build
[09:19] <raphink> to be initialy included in REVU, but that can be used on other machines
[09:20] <raphink> to say it short, this is a collection of scripts that automatize review tasks, such as comparing the upstream tarball with the orig one, run build tests, etc.
[09:20] <raphink> and generates a full report
[09:20] <raphink> the idea now is maybe to use mdt in it to make is more complete, checking for example for the presence of the package in debian or in older versions of ubuntu
[09:21] <raphink> any mdt dev is present?
[09:21] <sistpoty> lucas: around?
[09:21] <raphink> ...
[09:22] <LaserJock> looks like lucas is 3 hrs idle. don't know if he's around
[09:22] <Riddell> what is mdt?
[09:22] <LaserJock> multi-distro-tools
[09:22] <raphink> Riddell: mdt is Multi Distro TOols
[09:22] <stratus> raphink: I would like to suggest revu-tools package inclusion in the distro.
[09:22] <raphink> it's a set of tools created by some MOTUs (not sure about who exactly)
[09:22] <raphink> that is useful for merges mostly
[09:22] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiDistroTools
[09:22] <sistpoty> stratus ++
[09:22] <raphink> stratus: it's in NEW already, has been for a week
[09:23] <stratus> raphink: oh, great!
[09:23] <raphink> stratus: i've pinged elmo several times about it, but I have no news yet
[09:23] <sistpoty> raphink: what do you think you'll gain from merging with mdt?
[09:23] <Riddell> raphink: what's it written in?
[09:23] <Riddell> NEW is generally slow this week, soyuz stuff
[09:23] <raphink> sistpoty: being able to check for the presence of the package in Debian/Ubuntu already
[09:23] <raphink> sistpoty: mostly
[09:23] <stratus> raphink: do you plan to move from svn to bzr ?
[09:23] <LaserJock> I use mdt for MOTU Science lists like http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/all_list.html
[09:23] <raphink> stratus: well so far it's in the REVU svn
[09:24] <stratus> raphink: i know, i know, i asked about the possibility of a move in the near future.
[09:24] <Riddell> raphink: what's it written in?
[09:24] <jpatrick> Riddell: bash
[09:24] <Riddell> oh, lovely :)
[09:24] <raphink> stratus: well this is a small project, aimed to fewpeople
[09:24] <raphink> thanks jpatrick :)
[09:25] <LaserJock> mdt is also bash with a little ruby mixed in
[09:25] <raphink> although I hope to target DDs too
[09:25] <Riddell> raphink: does it check for all copyright contributors being in debian/copyright?
[09:25] <raphink> not yet Riddell 
[09:25] <raphink> that could be a nice thing
[09:25] <LaserJock> how would it do that
[09:25] <Riddell> LaserJock: grep :)
[09:25] <stratus> raphink: np
[09:25] <raphink> Riddell: I'm wondering if that feature wouldn't be better in lintian or linda though
[09:25] <Riddell> raphink: probably too unreliable
[09:25] <LaserJock> Riddell: grep what? COPYING?
[09:26] <sistpoty> Riddell: you are almost as extreme with ideas what a script can do as ajmitch ;)
[09:26] <raphink> LaserJock: grep the headers
[09:26] <stratus> btw, what's up with the REVU wiki articles? Just search for REVU in the wiki.
[09:26] <jpatrick> LaserJock: grep -i copyright
[09:26] <stratus> two articles (almost same content) in different urls and a broken redirect
[09:26] <LaserJock> jpatrick: compare to what?
[09:27] <raphink> stratus: no there is only one REVU page on the wiki
[09:27] <raphink> stratus: and I take note of the broken redirect
[09:27] <jpatrick> LaserJock: then compares debian/copyright and the src files?
[09:27] <LaserJock> jpatrick: ok, I can kinda see that
[09:27] <raphink> stratus: and correct it immediatly ;)
[09:28] <stratus> raphink: heh :-)
[09:28] <sistpoty> raphink: iirc revu2 also has some stuff to find out, if a sourcepackage is in debian or ubuntu... so you could also take a look at this
[09:28] <raphink> sistpoty: indeed I'd like to try to embed revu-tools in revu2 more
[09:28] <sistpoty> raphink: so imo it depends, whether you want revu-report integrated into revu2 or standalone... 
[09:29] <raphink> sistpoty: including being able to run them from the web interface for reviewers
[09:29] <LaserJock> sistpoty: btw, is there an ETA on REVU2?
[09:29] <raphink> sistpoty: I'd like two branches 
[09:29] <raphink> sistpoty: because I don't think DDs will use REVU2 very soon
[09:29] <raphink> sistpoty: but I think we'd benefit from DDs using revu-tools
[09:29] <sistpoty> LaserJock: should have been done for a long time... no honestly, we don't have an ETA right now :(
[09:30] <LaserJock> ok
[09:30] <sistpoty> raphink: ok
[09:30] <raphink> any more questions? or shall we move on?
[09:30] <sistpoty> raphink: I basically think, you should discuss inclusion to mdt with lucas, since he wrote it
[09:30] <sivang> what was a motu meeting?
[09:31] <raphink> sivang: the meeting is not done ;)
[09:31] <raphink> s/done/over/
[09:31] <sivang> ah
[09:31] <raphink> ok well if there's no questions anymore, sistpoty you go :)
[09:31] <sistpoty> ok, let's move on
[09:31] <sistpoty> first item: allegro4.1 to 4.2 transition
[09:32] <sivang> whose hosting the meeting?
[09:32] <raphink> sivang: hosting?
[09:32] <sistpoty> sivang: the motu's do
[09:32] <sivang> err, directing :)
[09:32] <raphink> sivang: seems I'm doing it so far 
[09:32] <dholbach> sivang: sistpoty and the meeting is running atm
[09:32] <raphink> ;)
[09:32] <sivang> in previous ones ogra_ibook or dholbach did that :)
[09:32] <sistpoty> dholbach is uber_host ;)
[09:32] <sistpoty> back to topic
[09:33] <raphink> :)
[09:33] <sistpoty> has everybody read my mail to -motu about allegro4.1 -> 4.2?
[09:33] <sistpoty> (or anybody)?
[09:33] <stratus> nobody cared, but considering we did, move on :-)
[09:34] <raphink> sistpoty: what is allegro ? *blush*
[09:34] <sistpoty> just for reference: debian unstable ships with allegro4.2 (and 4.1)... most of the games have deps on 4.2 now, since there are bugs filed against packages which depend on 4.1
[09:35] <raphink> sistpoty: oh so this is not like a very big transition
[09:35] <sistpoty> raphink: a library mostly for games
[09:35] <stratus> yes, and for those who care it's sound related, so go figure..
[09:35] <sistpoty> raphink: no, just some rdeps
[09:35] <raphink> yep
[09:35] <dholbach> do the games/allegro have bugs on them already?
[09:35] <dholbach> does it seem sane, like stable?
[09:35] <raphink> (btw: OT, the automake1.6 is not yet fully achieved)
[09:36] <raphink> (automake1.6 transition)
[09:36] <sistpoty> dholbach: haven't seen any till now, and since it's there for quite some time, I consider it stable
[09:36] <stratus> there are just 7 games in Debian that depends on allegro 4.2
[09:36] <stratus> checking for bugs...
[09:36] <raphink> sistpoty: what does it bring?
[09:36] <sistpoty> one good thing about the transition is, that we could undo it, since allegro4.2 and allegro4.1 would be present (different sourcepackages)
[09:37] <sistpoty> raphink: being closer to debian
[09:37] <raphink> k
[09:37] <dholbach> and something supported
[09:37] <dholbach> "supported", since closer to upstream
[09:37] <sistpoty> thus, if bugs occur, we would be quite sure that they are in debian as well and could join the efforts on fixing
[09:38] <raphink> sistpoty: so using allegro4.1 | allegro4.2 in Depends should be quite fine I guess
[09:38] <raphink> sistpoty: ++
[09:38] <sistpoty> raphink: erm... no... we should use liballegro4.2-dev as build-depends
[09:39] <raphink> ah
[09:39] <sistpoty> (so I'm not quite sure if liballegro-dev | liballegro4.2-dev will work as well, since liballegro4.2-dev replaces/conflicts liballegro-dev... anyone a clue?)
[09:39] <stratus> FYI, there are no bugs involving allegro 4.2 in Debian packages that depends on it.
[09:39] <sistpoty> thx stratus
[09:40] <stratus> there are just bugs asking for allegro 4.2 transition, made in 7 of them already
[09:40] <raphink> ok
[09:40] <sistpoty> (well and I'm quite sure I could work a little bit in debian-games, since at least one game ftbfs currently, which i believe is in debian-games)
[09:40] <raphink> seems good :)
[09:40] <sistpoty> dholbach: what's your opinion about the transition?
[09:41] <dholbach> If we have both library source packages in, we should run into no risk, if we can get rid of one of them, even better.
[09:41] <raphink> +1
[09:41] <sistpoty> we will have both sourcepackages :)... so any objections from anyone?
[09:42] <sistpoty> ok, then I call it decided, we'll go for the transition :)
[09:42] <sistpoty> shall we move on?
[09:42] <raphink> ok
[09:42] <raphink> sistpoty: do you want to create a transition page on the wiki?
[09:43] <raphink> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Transitions
[09:43] <stratus> raphink: which content exactly? information about ongoing transitions?
[09:43] <raphink> yep, as done with other transitions there
[09:44] <sistpoty> raphink: actually I want to testbuild the whole transition before doing it... if I'm finished with these steps I already have all changed packages at hand...
[09:44] <sistpoty> raphink: so if noone objects, I would care for this transition
[09:44] <raphink> sistpoty: you can use mdt for that :)
[09:44] <raphink> sistpoty: sure :)
[09:44] <stratus> raphink: i see
[09:44] <raphink> ok then 
[09:44] <sistpoty> raphink: mdt for what? I use apt-get in my unstable chroot :)
[09:44] <sistpoty> next item?
[09:44] <raphink> sistpoty: mdt for reverse dep and build all
[09:45] <LaserJock> sistpoty: for listing dependent packages, etc.
[09:45] <raphink> ok let's move on :)
[09:45] <sistpoty> ok, next item is coordination of current work...
[09:45] <raphink> huhu
[09:46] <sistpoty> actually, I must admit, that I'm beginning to loose overview of who works on what package and what syncs are already requested
[09:46] <lfittl> wiki page seems like a good idea to solve that
[09:46] <sistpoty> and I believe that we might start to do duplicate work, if we don't organize a little bit :)
[09:46] <raphink> stratus: you've the one who made a wiki page for the UVF status right?
[09:47] <stratus> raphink: yes
[09:47] <LaserJock> sistpoty, more than SyncRequests and UVFStatus provide?
[09:47] <sistpoty> LaserJock: is syncrequests current?
[09:47] <LaserJock> yes
[09:47] <LaserJock> dholbach had me make last week I think
[09:48] <dholbach> had you make? :)
[09:48] <sistpoty> LaserJock: I don't think it is current... (at least I need to insert my syncs there *g*)
[09:48] <stratus> oh, wait
[09:48] <sistpoty> LaserJock: imo we need also a table who is doing work on a package right now
[09:48] <LaserJock> sistpoty: well, people have to use it ;-)
[09:49] <LaserJock> sistpoty: what kind of work?
[09:49] <sistpoty> LaserJock: and to know of it's existance :)
[09:49] <LaserJock> sure
[09:49] <stratus> the UVFStatus and SyncRequests lack a better explanation about why there aren't just one page
[09:49] <sistpoty> LaserJock: for example work on a package with unmet dependencies
[09:49] <stratus> SyncRequests does a better job informing that 'this is not used for merges...'
[09:49] <LaserJock> stratus SyncRequests isn't for UVF exceptions
[09:50] <LaserJock> sistpoty: what we could really use is a list like we used for merging on tiber
[09:50] <stratus> LaserJock: yes, i know. I'm just thinking about the 'foo' wiki reader.
[09:50] <LaserJock> wiki pages aren't great for that kind of work flow tracking
[09:50] <sistpoty> LaserJock: grml... (means work for me *g*)
[09:50] <raphink> LaserJock: yes
[09:50] <raphink> sistpoty: means more work in the beginning, less in the future
[09:51] <LaserJock> stratus: I see, it was more for people who already knew what they were doing, but yes it isn't very discriptive
[09:51] <stratus> LaserJock: entire work flow tracking no, but just for current status it's, IMHO.
[09:51] <LaserJock> sistpoty: maybe you need to delegate ;-)
[09:51] <LaserJock> stratus: current status of what?
[09:51] <raphink> sistpoty: delegate your work ... to elmo for example :)
[09:51] <sistpoty> LaserJock: well if s.o. is willing to create s.th. I wouldn't mind at all :)
[09:51] <LaserJock> raphink: lol, nooooo
[09:51] <stratus> LaserJock: you said that wiki pages aren't great for "that kind of work flow tracking".
[09:52] <raphink> LaserJock: ;)
[09:52] <sistpoty> LaserJock, raphink: on the left of the merge-web-tool is the link to it's bzr-repo ;)
[09:52] <sistpoty> does anyone know how usable the search-function of malone is up to now?
[09:53] <LaserJock> for what?
[09:53] <dholbach> sistpoty: what do you want to know?
[09:53] <raphink> sistpoty: depends
[09:53] <sistpoty> maybe we could also (ab)use malone-bugs and the search function to create a list who is doing work on a package
[09:53] <raphink> sistpoty: it often crashes and is not very reliable imo
[09:53] <raphink> sistpoty: a list on _a_ package??
[09:54] <sistpoty> raphink: idea is: if you work on a package, you file a (specific) bug to malone...
[09:54] <LaserJock> basically, I think a question is should we be opening bugs for everything we do?
[09:54] <sistpoty> raphink: then you could search for all these bugs to know which packages are worked on
[09:54] <raphink> I get the idea sistpoty, just as for merges
[09:55] <dholbach> Hm, I don't see the problem to fix. Can somebody help me?
[09:55] <sivang> sistpoty: using the autmatic merge bug filer right?
[09:55] <sistpoty> LaserJock: if it provides us with s.th. to handle the workflow in a good matter, I don't see a problem with it
[09:55] <sistpoty> sivang: eventually
[09:55] <raphink> sistpoty: since merges are not done normally during UVF, why not use motu-mergers for that?
[09:56] <sistpoty> raphink: hm... that is quite confusing but would give us what we want :)
[09:56] <dholbach> Which workflow are we trying to fix for which reason?
[09:56] <LaserJock> maybe we need at motu-workflow LP team that would go to a motu-workflow list? kinda like a svn commit ML
[09:56] <sistpoty> dholbach: that two persons doing work on the same package
[09:57] <dholbach> like in "bug fixing"?
[09:57] <raphink> dholbach: we are trying to find a way to work properly on UVF exceptions I think, not duplicating the work
[09:57] <raphink> dholbach: from what I understood
[09:57] <sistpoty> dholbach: or in fixing unmet deps, yse
[09:57] <dholbach> assigning the bug to people should be way to go
[09:57] <sistpoty> raphink: no, I'm not talking about UVF exceptions here
[09:57] <LaserJock> well, there is lots of work, bug fixing, unmet deps, FTBFS, merges, syncs
[09:57] <raphink> sistpoty: oh ok
[09:57] <dholbach> and subscribe MOTU so they still get the mails on universe-bugs, no?
[09:57] <raphink> sure dholbach 
[09:58] <LaserJock> dholbach: do we want to create that much noise on universe-bugs?
[09:58] <sistpoty> dholbach: actually I'd like to see a list of which packages are currently worked on
[09:58] <dholbach> LaserJock: If you're going to fix a bug that's in Malone, you SHOULD assign it to you - that's not more noise than there is anyway atm.
[09:58] <sistpoty> (imo that would be very easy to look up, before I start working on a package)
[09:59] <dholbach> Untriaged bugs and Unassigned bugs is a good way atm.
[09:59] <LaserJock> dholbach: i'm talking about opening a bug for every upload, syn request, etc.
[09:59] <dholbach> We should step back from assigning bugs to MOTU
[09:59] <sistpoty> dholbach++
[09:59] <dholbach> subscribing motu or getting motu on the default subscribers list is a good idea
[10:00] <dholbach> assigning = commiting to work on it
[10:00] <dholbach> is that a definition we can live with?
[10:00] <sistpoty> dholbach: sounds good to me
[10:00] <LaserJock> raphink: really, I was under the impressions that we didn't want to assign anything to a particular person only MOTU
[10:01] <dholbach> LaserJock: But we do uploads for a reason - it's better to look at reasons/use-cases (like bug, update, ...) than at uploads
[10:01] <sistpoty> well, I think I could rape^Wreprogram the current merge list quite fast, to be able to handle unmet deps... do you think this might be worth a try?
[10:01] <LaserJock> ok, but I think the questions remains, should we be using Malone for tracking MOTU work?
[10:02] <dholbach> LaserJock: for which use-cases?
[10:02] <sistpoty> LaserJock: *if* it provides us with what we need, why not use it?
[10:03] <dholbach> aren't unmetdeps mostly something for saying "I poke <package xy>" in #ubuntu-motu?
[10:03] <LaserJock> I'm talking about tracking all MOTU (basically everything we do and upload for) whether it is really a "bug" or not
[10:03] <LaserJock> all MOTU activity, that is
[10:03] <sistpoty> dholbach: I'm sometimes working on a package when I'm not online... 
[10:03] <LaserJock> if I want a package synced, should I open a bug
[10:03] <dholbach> LaserJock: please try to break it up in use-cases - it's easier to discuss separate issues
[10:03] <dholbach> sistpoty: right
[10:04] <sistpoty> dholbach: and you don't know, if somebody started working on it, but didn't finish yet (if it takes longer)
[10:04] <LaserJock> if I have a fix for an unmet dep should I open a bug?
[10:04] <dholbach> the problem with locking on stuff is that some stuff keeps being locked
[10:04] <sistpoty> dholbach: yes, good point... 
[10:05] <dholbach> but for important thigns (which *are* problems) we should probably have a bug
[10:05] <sistpoty> maybe bug filing might help us with this, since we know the date s.o. started working on it?
[10:05] <stratus> well guys, i need to go now
[10:05] <sistpoty> cya stratus
[10:05] <raphink> ciao stratus 
[10:06] <LaserJock> I think moving work workflow off the wiki is a good thing but I'm unclear as to what I (and other MOTU Wannabes) are supposed to do.
[10:06] <LaserJock> in the case of a bug fix it is clear
[10:06] <sistpoty> ok, got a proposal: I empty the merge-list and for every package with unmet deps, a bug "package is uninstallable in dapper" should be filed, if s.o. starts working on it
[10:07] <sistpoty> what do you think?
[10:07] <sistpoty> then we have both a list for fast lookup and bugs in malone...
[10:08] <sistpoty> in the bugs, we could state, if the package is to be synced (and also list it in the wiki) or close it, once a new version is uploaded
[10:08] <LaserJock> and for FTBFS? "package does not build from source"?
[10:08] <psusi> fails to build from source
[10:09] <sistpoty> a bug with "package FTBFS" or something... then it could also be handled by the list
[10:09] <dholbach> guys, I'll be out for a walk now, sorry.
[10:09] <dholbach> bbl
[10:09] <sistpoty> cya dholbach
[10:09] <raphink> later dholbach 
[10:10] <sistpoty> let's try to summarize the options we have... and vote for the best one
[10:10] <sistpoty> (a) no coordination necessary
[10:10] <sistpoty> (b) wiki-page
[10:10] <LaserJock> cya dholbach
[10:10] <sistpoty> (c) bugs in malone
[10:10] <dholbach> a 'motu' poll!
[10:10] <sistpoty> (d) bugs in malone with merge-list abused as list who works on a package
[10:11] <sistpoty> any other option?
[10:11] <raphink> in the past I have gone for b+d, since it's still quite hard to search on malone
[10:11] <raphink> sorry
[10:11] <raphink> b+c
[10:11] <raphink> hehe
[10:11] <LaserJock> sistpoty: could we rename the list to workflow or something?
[10:11] <raphink> I made myself a wiki page to coordinate the list of things to be done, and filed bugs for each
[10:11] <sistpoty> LaserJock: sure, whatever you want ;)
[10:11] <raphink> reporting the bug numbers to the wiki page
[10:12] <sistpoty> (e) wiki-page and bugs as raphink just stated
[10:12] <sistpoty> anything else?
[10:12] <LaserJock> I think (d) is great if we can get away with it ;-)
[10:13] <sistpoty> ok, if we have nothing more, then let's start voting :)
[10:13] <raphink> ok
[10:14] <LaserJock> raphink: really?
[10:14] <raphink> hmm sure
[10:14] <raphink> and so far I'm the only one to vote anyway
[10:15] <raphink> ah no :)
[10:15] <raphink> we're two :)
[10:15] <LaserJock> I think wiki pages are very difficult for the number of items we are talking about
[10:15] <sistpoty> (imo (e) is not as error-prone as (d)) *g*
[10:15] <LaserJock> woah, ok maybe I'm not understanding e then :(
[10:16] <raphink> LaserJock: example of what I mean by (e) : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Transitions/Automake
[10:16] <LaserJock> we would have 1 wiki page that has a list of every package being touched and the corresponding bug?
[10:17] <raphink> yes
[10:17] <raphink> that's the idea
[10:17] <LaserJock> I mean for personal use it seems great but for the MOTU as a whole it seems a bit clunky
[10:18] <raphink> depends on the amount of things that are gathered on this page I guess
[10:18] <LaserJock> I'm talking package that is being touched
[10:19] <raphink> you mean any touched package
[10:19] <sistpoty> well, we had used the wiki for breezy... imo it's not perfect but at least does the job
[10:19] <raphink> yes
[10:20] <raphink> I think some people even automatize wiki pages
[10:20] <raphink> they make scripts that generate lists and put them on the wiki iirc
[10:20] <raphink> not sure about that though :S
[10:20] <raphink> huhu
[10:20] <sistpoty> oh, nice... only thing I had seen was a generated (but static) list in the wiki
[10:21] <sistpoty> ok, any other votes?
[10:21] <sistpoty> 3...
[10:21] <sistpoty> 2...
[10:21] <sistpoty> 1...
[10:21] <raphink> lol
[10:21] <sistpoty> poll closed :)
[10:21] <sistpoty> the winner is (e)...
[10:21] <raphink> it seems so
[10:21] <raphink> barely, but still ;)
[10:21] <raphink> lol
[10:21] <sistpoty> next question is who will create the initial wiki-page?
[10:22] <raphink> hmmpf
[10:22] <sistpoty> if nobody goes for it, I will take care
[10:22] <raphink> among the people who are still alive on this channel ....
[10:23] <sistpoty> ok, then I'll do it ;)
[10:23] <raphink> thanks sistpoty 
[10:23] <raphink> ok I think if we're done with this, the meeting is over
[10:23] <sistpoty> any other topics that aren't on the agenda?
[10:24] <raphink> unless someone has something else to say
[10:24] <sistpoty> raphink: we still need date/time for next meeting
[10:24] <raphink> s/body/bodies/
[10:24] <sistpoty> seems like everybody has fallen asleep *g*
[10:25] <raphink> yes :(
[10:25] <sistpoty> ok, when do we want to meet again?
[10:25] <raphink> sistpoty: ok when do you and me meet around for a meeting?
[10:25] <Nafallo> lol
[10:25] <sistpoty> hehe... /me checks fridge for upcoming events
[10:26] <raphink> sistpoty: I think this was the last MOTU meeting before FF
[10:27] <sistpoty> yes
[10:27] <raphink> so ...
[10:27] <sistpoty> what about 28. Feb?
[10:27] <raphink> or the first week of march
[10:28] <raphink> I'm fine for the 28th Feb
[10:28] <sistpoty> first week of march is fine for me as well
[10:28] <raphink> sistpoty: shall we meet in a bar or so ? this is more convenient than IRC if we're 2 or 3 people ;)
[10:29] <raphink> sistpoty: any date is fine by me, so just choose :)
[10:29] <sistpoty> hehe
[10:29] <sistpoty> we could choose 28. Feb... and have the time be discussed on motu-ml, what do you think?
[10:29] <raphink> yep that's good
[10:29] <raphink> let's go for the 28th of feb for now
[10:29] <sistpoty> ok
[10:30] <sistpoty> --> meeting over :)
[10:30] <raphink> yep
[10:30] <raphink> thank you everyone for having stayed so long 
[10:30] <tseng> bye all
[10:30] <LaserJock> sorry, my boss came by for a safety inspection
[10:30] <raphink> hehe
[10:31] <sistpoty> *g+
[10:31] <LaserJock> ok, so should the SyncRequests wiki page be folded into this new page?
[10:32] <LaserJock> or should we have one page for each major category?
[10:32] <sistpoty> LaserJock: imo just one page
[10:33] <LaserJock> so should I move the content of SyncRequests? have you made a page yet?
[10:33] <sistpoty> LaserJock: no... will do in 30 Minutes probably
[10:33] <LaserJock> I guess I could move this to #ubuntu-motu
[10:33] <sistpoty> LaserJock: yes
[10:33] <sistpoty> :)
[10:35] <raphink> hop log saved :)