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mhz | jsgotangco: ping | 03:08 |
---|---|---|
jsgotangco | hi | 03:09 |
mhz | available? | 03:10 |
mhz | jsgotangco: ? | 03:10 |
jsgotangco | sure | 03:11 |
jsgotangco | what's up | 03:11 |
mhz | jsgotangco: could we meet? | 03:11 |
jsgotangco | aren't we doing it now? | 03:12 |
jsgotangco | jheh | 03:12 |
mhz | jsgotangco: so, far I have no experience on writing guides nor books. However, I do feel there are certain points to set: Audience, Deepness, Average look, Format, etc | 03:13 |
jsgotangco | did you see the wiki page? | 03:13 |
mhz | at my lunch time, 13 hours ago | 03:13 |
jsgotangco | i don't want to delve on setting up the whole server | 03:13 |
mhz | The Edubuntu 6.04 Quick Guide | 03:14 |
mhz | * | 03:14 |
mhz | ?/IntroductionToEdubuntu | 03:14 |
mhz | * | 03:14 |
mhz | ?/GettingStartedWithTheEdubuntuDesktop | 03:14 |
mhz | * | 03:14 |
mhz | ?/TheEdubuntuApplications | 03:14 |
mhz | * | 03:14 |
mhz | ?/BeyondEdubuntuBasics | 03:14 |
jsgotangco | i just want the basic desktop apps shown | 03:15 |
jsgotangco | that is unique to edubuntu | 03:15 |
mhz | jsgotangco: My guess is that chapters 3 and 4 will take longer | 03:15 |
jsgotangco | because an ubuntu manual alrady addresses those | 03:15 |
mhz | jsgotangco: agree | 03:15 |
jsgotangco | 4 is just a table pointing to more complex tasks | 03:15 |
jsgotangco | this thing shouldnt even go beyond 5 sections | 03:16 |
mhz | JaneW: 3, how deep do you picture it? | 03:16 |
mhz | sorry | 03:16 |
mhz | jsgotangco: :) | 03:16 |
jsgotangco | intro is the usual intro | 03:17 |
mhz | jsgotangco: and 4, do you want to talk about each application or just table them ? | 03:17 |
jsgotangco | and marketing stuff | 03:17 |
jsgotangco | mhz, the edubuntu desktop apps is less than 15 | 03:18 |
jsgotangco | and those apps have their own manuals | 03:18 |
mhz | jsgotangco: it depends.. Gcompris itself is about 40 apps | 03:18 |
jsgotangco | i'm not planning to show everything on gcompris | 03:19 |
mhz | jsgotangco: so you are happy with just a description of each app? | 03:19 |
jsgotangco | pretty much | 03:20 |
jsgotangco | unless you have something better | 03:20 |
jsgotangco | 1) Need Math -> 2) Go here | 03:20 |
jsgotangco | 1) Need English -> 2) Go here | 03:20 |
mhz | jsgotangco: did you see what i listed here? https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSoftwareList | 03:21 |
mhz | jsgotangco: oh, I see, so you picture it divided in areas | 03:21 |
mhz | thematic areas | 03:21 |
mhz | or subject areas | 03:22 |
jsgotangco | yes | 03:22 |
jsgotangco | but i'm not a teacher, so that | 03:22 |
jsgotangco | that's just a guess | 03:22 |
mhz | hmmmm | 03:22 |
jsgotangco | this is nice | 03:22 |
mhz | what if we have them 'crossed' | 03:22 |
jsgotangco | we can move this | 03:22 |
mhz | #4 Could be: Need Math -> Go here... | 03:23 |
mhz | Need Junior -> Go there | 03:23 |
jsgotangco | i wish i had a working edubuntu now | 03:23 |
mhz | jsgotangco: so maybe we can easily list all apps by 'categories' | 03:23 |
mhz | by 'ages' | 03:24 |
mhz | and by 'subjects/areas' | 03:24 |
mhz | we use EdubuntuSoftwareList as a base DB | 03:25 |
jsgotangco | im not that familiar with the age groups for the apps | 03:25 |
jsgotangco | the wiki page can be massaged then moved to the distro | 03:25 |
mhz | yup | 03:25 |
jsgotangco | hmm | 03:26 |
jsgotangco | who wrote this? | 03:26 |
mhz | and if we included screenshots, a user may click on an application name, get to a mini wiki page with the shot and short description | 03:26 |
jsgotangco | hmm | 03:27 |
mhz | 18th versions, 17 writen by me | 03:27 |
jsgotangco | would it be possible in our short time frame to make a wiki version for each app? | 03:27 |
mhz | sure | 03:27 |
mhz | piece of cake | 03:27 |
jsgotangco | i'll proabably install 5.10 first in a machine | 03:27 |
jsgotangco | then just grab screenshots | 03:27 |
jsgotangco | just the desktop specific apps | 03:28 |
jsgotangco | is that good? | 03:28 |
mhz | good | 03:28 |
mhz | jsgotangco: so, let's write a mini roadmap? | 03:29 |
jsgotangco | yes | 03:29 |
mhz | write = agree | 03:29 |
jsgotangco | can you create a draft in the wiki? | 03:29 |
jsgotangco | i | 03:29 |
mhz | sure | 03:29 |
jsgotangco | i'm currently doing something with a firewall | 03:29 |
jsgotangco | what i'll do first is fix up my machine for 5.10 | 03:29 |
mhz | go ahead, let me get a coffe and get my hands on it | 03:29 |
mhz | jsgotangco: heheh | 03:29 |
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mhz | jsgotangco: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuQuickguide/RoadMap | 04:19 |
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jsgotangco | looks good to me | 04:21 |
jsgotangco | i can finish up the screenshots | 04:21 |
jsgotangco | from 5.10 | 04:21 |
jsgotangco | hopefully not much have changed | 04:21 |
mhz_tired | jsgotangco: I have like 10 or more screenshots | 04:21 |
mhz_tired | about Gcompris and some other junior apps | 04:22 |
jsgotangco | tha's ok i can do some more again | 04:22 |
jsgotangco | and just compare when we're done | 04:22 |
mhz_tired | cool | 04:22 |
jsgotangco | hopefull, we'll have enough space on the CD | 04:22 |
jsgotangco | heh | 04:22 |
mhz_tired | hehehe | 04:22 |
mhz_tired | jsgotangco: any chances a user can be directed from Yelp to Firefox? | 04:23 |
jsgotangco | then go to the internet? | 04:23 |
mhz_tired | or any chances we set that 'help button' to open a firefox tab | 04:23 |
mhz_tired | ? | 04:23 |
mhz_tired | nope, localhost | 04:23 |
jsgotangco | direct from Yelp to firefox? | 04:23 |
jsgotangco | hmm | 04:24 |
mhz_tired | nope, localhost/EdubuntuQuickGuide | 04:24 |
jsgotangco | yelp renders html | 04:24 |
jsgotangco | a like to file will open up in yelp i think | 04:24 |
mhz_tired | jsgotangco: I am imagining, localhost = Welcome to Edubuntu! | 04:24 |
jsgotangco | but a link to http will open up the default browser | 04:24 |
mhz_tired | like DSL does it | 04:25 |
mhz_tired | you run DSL and get presented with a browser with all the info you need | 04:25 |
mhz_tired | to start up | 04:25 |
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highvoltage | hi ribbo | 09:50 |
ribbo | hi highvoltage | 09:53 |
ribbo | so, much action here? | 09:53 |
jsgotangco | :D | 10:01 |
highvoltage | ribbo: sometimes, yes. | 10:08 |
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pips1 | highvoltage, hi! | 10:36 |
highvoltage | hi pips1 | 10:37 |
highvoltage | long time no see | 10:37 |
pips1 | how is it going! yes! | 10:37 |
highvoltage | very busy down here, a lot of things going on, good and bad! | 10:37 |
pips1 | I was very busy with my day job since december... | 10:37 |
pips1 | I piled up a lot of overtime and now I get to compensate :-) | 10:38 |
highvoltage | :) | 10:38 |
pips1 | Did you get the mail re edubuntu website from JaneW ? | 10:38 |
highvoltage | yes, i have | 10:39 |
highvoltage | mhz, hno73, etc. will work to make the moin part better | 10:39 |
pips1 | Well, I wanted to really get going with the website ... :-) | 10:39 |
highvoltage | so that we'll eventually be able to do everything we wanted with drupal, but with moin (hopefully) | 10:39 |
pips1 | ah | 10:40 |
highvoltage | i'm not quite sure how that will work yet, i'm a bit behind on that myseld | 10:40 |
pips1 | i noticed that hno73 revamped the ubuntu site to use moin now :-) | 10:40 |
highvoltage | s/myseld/myself | 10:40 |
highvoltage | yep, the plone site broke into a "million tiny pieces" and they couldn't get it back up again :) | 10:41 |
pips1 | moin/wikis are great for community contributions | 10:41 |
highvoltage | yep | 10:42 |
pips1 | still, I thought that there will be the need for an "official" site with it's own set of needs | 10:42 |
pips1 | hm | 10:42 |
highvoltage | seems not, hey :/ | 10:42 |
highvoltage | how much of your original plans will be applicable to the moin site? | 10:42 |
highvoltage | can it be adjusted, and can we implement the most part of it and then find ways for the rest? | 10:43 |
highvoltage | or does it depend heavily on drupals taxonimy? | 10:43 |
pips1 | well, I the meeting yesterday, I proposed to have a go at a drupal site (for the "official" stuff) | 10:43 |
pips1 | JaneW proposed that we meet on monday and decide how to go forward exactly | 10:43 |
pips1 | I intend to demo the drupal test site I'm currently building... | 10:44 |
highvoltage | not a bad idea, i considered this too | 10:44 |
pips1 | then we'll vote if we need/use drupal or go moin completely... | 10:44 |
highvoltage | so far, i think you'll have 3 votes for drupal | 10:45 |
highvoltage | perhaps if that demo site is up, it will jump up quite drastically | 10:45 |
pips1 | well, we'll see ;-) | 10:45 |
highvoltage | :) | 10:45 |
highvoltage | gtg, talk again l8r | 10:45 |
pips1 | ok, if you get a spare minute, get in touch with me :-) | 10:45 |
Kamping_Kaiser | i have a laptop here I'm about to install something on, but after that's done, does anyone think i should install edubuntu to test how it goes? i know ubuntu Breezy runs perfectly, so i asume edu will work just as well | 10:50 |
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pips1 | Kamping_Kaiser, if you install on a laptop you might want to do the "workstation" install | 10:57 |
Kamping_Kaiser | pips1: ok thanks. *checks the wiki to see what the difference is* | 10:57 |
pips1 | If you want to test the current (unstable) Dapper version, please report your findings in the wiki here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu if you can :-) | 10:59 |
Kamping_Kaiser | my iso is Breezy (my ISP don't mirror Ubuntu's unstalbe isos) | 11:00 |
pips1 | btw, I am running unstable "flight3" on a test pc (amd64) and it's fine just now | 11:01 |
pips1 | oh, I see | 11:01 |
Kamping_Kaiser | pips1: i have a desktop pc that someone installed edubuntu on (i have it because of flppy issues) | 11:01 |
Kamping_Kaiser | *floppy | 11:01 |
Kamping_Kaiser | I'm just wondering how a lappy would handle it | 11:01 |
pips1 | ok | 11:01 |
pips1 | depends on your model, I guess | 11:02 |
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pips1 | on my ibm thinkpad it runs rather well :-) | 11:03 |
Kamping_Kaiser | :) this is a compac armada | 11:05 |
pips1 | maybe somebody already tested your model, have a look https://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/LaptopTestingTeam | 11:12 |
Kamping_Kaiser | I'm installing for interest sake, but thanks for the url | 11:12 |
pips1 | sure :-) | 11:13 |
Kamping_Kaiser | :) | 11:13 |
pips1 | well, you might want to report your findings (hint hint) ;-) | 11:14 |
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Kamping_Kaiser | <grin> | 11:16 |
Kamping_Kaiser | maybe :) I'm just giving livelamp the evil eye. when I'm finished doing that I'll try EdU | 11:16 |
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Kamping_Kaiser | http://tangram.dnsalias.net:8008/gallery/LCA06-0129/p1280213 rofl | 11:35 |
ogra | JaneW, for your pleasance: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-February/006434.html | 11:53 |
jsgotangco | birthday gift for ogra : http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/about-edubuntu/C/index.html | 11:53 |
jsgotangco | it now builds | 11:53 |
JaneW | ogra: YAY | 11:54 |
ogra | jsgotangco, we should probably drop the moodle stuff ... | 11:54 |
ogra | we wont ship it ... | 11:54 |
JaneW | jsgotangco: nice :) | 11:54 |
ogra | or rewrite it to: edubuntu recommends moodle for class management ... | 11:55 |
jsgotangco | dinner | 11:56 |
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ogra | workstation installs edubuntu-desktop on top of a normal ubuntu system ... | 12:03 |
ogra | server should be renamed to "minimal" | 12:03 |
Kamping_Kaiser | so server is same as a normal ubuntu cd? (i agree about minimal) | 12:03 |
ogra | and default installs (and configures) edubuntu-server and edubuntu-desktop | 12:03 |
ogra | yes | 12:03 |
Kamping_Kaiser | ok. | 12:03 |
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Kamping_Kaiser | *does workstation install* | 12:04 |
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lucasvo | what's the user password in the vmware virtual machine of ubuntu(cdimages.ubuntu.com/vmware) | 01:59 |
jsgotangco | ubuntu | 01:59 |
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Kamping_Kaiser | hm. Edu workstation is going nice on this laptop :O only problem so far is the modem, but I'll check that out later. :) | 02:03 |
jsgotangco | hmm | 02:03 |
jsgotangco | i havent tested the daily build | 02:03 |
jsgotangco | x86 looks sane | 02:03 |
ogra | Kamping_Kaiser, dapper ? | 02:04 |
jsgotangco | i still want to sulk over gnome-xchat though | 02:04 |
Kamping_Kaiser | ogra: no, Breezy | 02:04 |
jsgotangco | heh | 02:04 |
ogra | jsgotangco, i wont use it ... | 02:04 |
Kamping_Kaiser | i cant download dapper on my connection :\ | 02:04 |
jsgotangco | ogra: i agree | 02:04 |
Kamping_Kaiser | lol jsgotangco | 02:04 |
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ogra | me neither today :( | 02:04 |
Kamping_Kaiser | probably integrated or something | 02:05 |
ogra | DSL broke ... i'm on ISDN ... 64k isnt really for syncing isos ... | 02:05 |
jsgotangco | im using it now but this is worse than using gaim for irc | 02:05 |
Kamping_Kaiser | wow | 02:05 |
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Kamping_Kaiser | that's bad | 02:05 |
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jsgotangco | ogra: but ISDN is pretty expensive over there right? | 02:07 |
ogra | yup | 02:07 |
ogra | but hey ... i had to upload a new ltsp today and need to attend two meetings .. | 02:07 |
jsgotangco | yeah | 02:08 |
jsgotangco | err kubuntu meeting? | 02:08 |
jsgotangco | :D | 02:08 |
ogra | lol, nope | 02:09 |
ogra | development status meeting ... and a ltsp meeting adterwards | 02:09 |
ogra | *afterwards | 02:10 |
jsgotangco | hmm | 02:10 |
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jsgotangco | ahhh | 02:10 |
jsgotangco | must be sudden | 02:10 |
ogra | debian/ubuntu ltsp teams meet in #ltsp 18:00 UTC ... | 02:12 |
ogra | its not a ubuntu meeting ... was initiated from the debian group | 02:12 |
jsgotangco | heh this sucks i live in a timezone where all the action is happening at dawn | 02:12 |
jsgotangco | ogra: that's nice...your work is paying off | 02:12 |
ogra | lets see :) | 02:12 |
ogra | they're not happy with some decisions and implementations ... its debian ... | 02:13 |
jsgotangco | do you know why xchat-gnome has become default? | 02:13 |
jsgotangco | ogra: why so? we're using muecow... | 02:13 |
ogra | they want no autoconfiguration but do everything manually ... | 02:13 |
jsgotangco | that's supposed to be ltsp-ng | 02:13 |
ogra | they use our package since quite some time ... | 02:13 |
jsgotangco | hmmm | 02:15 |
jsgotangco | does mdz also maintain ltsp in debian? | 02:16 |
ogra | mdz doesnt maintin ltsp anymore | 02:16 |
ogra | thats my job | 02:16 |
jsgotangco | oh! | 02:17 |
ogra | he just looks over the code from time to time and complains if i did something wrong ... | 02:17 |
ogra | but http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/dapper/ is the upstream archive for muecow in debian/ubuntu currently ... | 02:18 |
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jsgotangco | ogra: schools need bling! schools need compiz! | 04:05 |
jsgotangco | hehe | 04:05 |
ogra | pfft | 04:05 |
ogra | I'm SO annoyed by all the xgl stuff ... | 04:06 |
ogra | spams lists and channels for no good reason ... and wont be ready within the next 10 months ... | 04:06 |
ogra | xgl will be great if done though ... but it sidetracks everybody from getting dapper ready ... | 04:07 |
jsgotangco | right but let me enjoy this till next week since i'll be speaking in a trade show hehehe | 04:07 |
ogra | :) | 04:07 |
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jsgotangco | at the moment, its really just wow factor | 04:08 |
jsgotangco | nothing useful | 04:08 |
ogra | it will hopefully replace xorg soon ... its far better by design ... but its not even dapper+1 stuff imho... | 04:08 |
vmarks | I remember when xorg was the best thing going. | 04:09 |
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ogra | vmarks, doing all drawing by GL will give you a lot benefit even onn old hardware ... | 04:10 |
vmarks | oh yes. | 04:11 |
vmarks | that's for certain. | 04:11 |
vmarks | I was just reminiscing. | 04:11 |
Kamping_Kaiser | ogra: problem is people wont put effort into old hardware - and theats where it's needed | 04:11 |
Kamping_Kaiser | *that's | 04:11 |
ogra | Kamping_Kaiser, they will ... i'll scream and shout if edubuntu cant support old hardware ;) | 04:12 |
Kamping_Kaiser | :D | 04:12 |
Kamping_Kaiser | good. *knows what thin clients on old hardware are like* | 04:13 |
vmarks | I find myself using old linux distributions or lighter weight window managers on old hardware. | 04:17 |
ogra | not really necessary if you use ltsp ... | 04:17 |
vmarks | although edubuntu seems to do remarkably well. | 04:18 |
ogra | 300Mhz and &$MB are fine for thin clients | 04:18 |
ogra | err | 04:18 |
ogra | 64MB | 04:18 |
vmarks | well, yes. but ltsp isn't perfect: I'm still hurting on the non-pxe booting. | 04:18 |
vmarks | and 300mhz is a fast machine comparatively. | 04:18 |
ogra | i'll write a howto soon | 04:18 |
ogra | 300Mhz is PII class ... | 04:18 |
vmarks | yes it is. | 04:19 |
ogra | thats already quite old :) | 04:19 |
vmarks | some of us have p166 and 200mmx still. | 04:19 |
vmarks | :D | 04:19 |
ogra | 6 years ? | 04:19 |
ogra | 200mmx should be fine as well if you have the right amount of ram. ... | 04:19 |
Kamping_Kaiser | itshares boxes are only 200mhz+96mb RAM (or was 12 months ago, it's about a 300/400 average now) | 04:20 |
Kamping_Kaiser | so there's lots of 200s about | 04:20 |
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mhz_back4hrs | ogra: hi | 05:23 |
mhz_back4hrs | ogra: any ideal specs for NIC's for the Edubuntu server? | 05:23 |
mhz_back4hrs | speed? brand? | 05:23 |
ogra | PXE capable NICS are helpful ... | 05:23 |
ogra | 100Mbit as well | 05:24 |
ogra | oh, the server ... | 05:24 |
jsgotangco | ive used a gigiabit NIC | 05:25 |
ogra | not really ... i know people that say you should take 3com in any case, but to be honest i never saw regressions with other brands ... | 05:25 |
jsgotangco | then connected to a gigabit switch | 05:25 |
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jsgotangco | but a 100Mbit should actually work fine | 05:25 |
ogra | yeah, if you have a gbit switch its fine to use a gbit card | 05:25 |
juliux | you can also use the cards who have 4 ports | 05:26 |
juliux | and than connect every client directly to the server | 05:26 |
ogra | that gets quite tricky ... | 05:26 |
ogra | ah, yes | 05:26 |
ogra | i thought you wanted to trunk the lineks together | 05:27 |
mhz_back4hrs | so, bottom line ? :D | 05:27 |
ogra | *lines | 05:27 |
juliux | ogra, no | 05:27 |
jsgotangco | mhz_back4hrs: 100Mbit should work fine | 05:27 |
jsgotangco | but 1GBit is recommended | 05:27 |
mhz_back4hrs | jsgotangco: ideal specs? | 05:27 |
mhz_back4hrs | okis | 05:27 |
jsgotangco | you should be generous to your server as much as possible | 05:27 |
mhz_back4hrs | processor? from 1.7 GB (AMD) ? | 05:28 |
juliux | ogra, the pci bus has more than 400MBit bandwidth, and so every client has 100MBit, but you can only connect 4 clients | 05:28 |
ogra | 100Mbit no specific brand at least ... ideally gbit for client and server and a T3 line to the internet ;P | 05:28 |
juliux | ogra, only T3 ? | 05:28 |
ogra | heh | 05:28 |
jsgotangco | ived used 64bit with good results | 05:28 |
=== juliux has here 100MBit internet connection | ||
ogra | nah, a direct Gbit uplink to the provider will do as well, juliux | 05:29 |
juliux | ogra, the uni has only 622Mbit | 05:29 |
ogra | pfft ... lamers | 05:29 |
juliux | ogra, but with a flatrate | 05:29 |
ogra | heh, funny | 05:29 |
juliux | ogra, cost 1,5million + tax | 05:30 |
ogra | peanuts ... | 05:30 |
juliux | ogra, now you know why we have de.archives.ubuntu.com and ftp.de.debian.org here | 05:31 |
ogra | mhz_back4hrs, so just go with juliux recommendation and you wont run into problems :) | 05:31 |
mhz_back4hrs | hehe | 05:31 |
mhz_back4hrs | juliux rox! | 05:31 |
ogra | yes, he always has the cheap and easy solution for you :) | 05:32 |
juliux | hehe | 05:32 |
juliux | but at home i also have only a normal dsl connection | 05:33 |
ogra | oh, you get dsl in dresden ? | 05:33 |
ogra | i thought that wasnt possible ... | 05:33 |
juliux | no in hamburg | 05:33 |
ogra | oh | 05:33 |
ogra | you moved ? | 05:33 |
juliux | no there are my parents | 05:33 |
ogra | ah | 05:34 |
juliux | and that is for me home | 05:34 |
juliux | not dresden | 05:34 |
juliux | and in some parts of dresden you can get dsl | 05:34 |
juliux | but it is like a gamble | 05:34 |
ogra | yup, thats what i heard | 05:35 |
juliux | but you can get internet over wlan | 05:35 |
juliux | but it is very slow | 05:35 |
ogra | as for most parts of eastern germany ... where telekom was clever enough to replace all copper lines with fiber | 05:35 |
juliux | yes but you can also do dsl over fiber | 05:35 |
ogra | they should offer you direct fiber access :) | 05:36 |
juliux | but the telekom dont want to do this | 05:36 |
juliux | hansenet do it over fiber in hamburg | 05:36 |
ogra | its more expensive ... you need two more modulators ... | 05:37 |
juliux | that could be but you get a normal kabel into your flat | 05:37 |
juliux | so you can use normal dsl hardware | 05:38 |
ogra | sure, but the provider has more costs ... | 05:38 |
juliux | yes but his own cables and not the cables from the telekom | 05:38 |
juliux | so you get more bandwidth | 05:38 |
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bob | could someone send me a working sources file for dapper? the updates are being well sketchy for me | 06:07 |
ogra | how did you upgrade ? | 06:08 |
ogra | note that there is currently no clean way to upgrade the chroot, you need to rebuild it ... | 06:09 |
ogra | also dont use dapper in a production environment, its far from being stable ... | 06:11 |
bob | hmm ok | 06:17 |
bob | i just replaces all the breezys for dappers | 06:17 |
bob | *replaced | 06:17 |
ogra | thats fine for the server ... | 06:17 |
bob | hmm | 06:18 |
ogra | after that run sudo apt-get update | 06:18 |
bob | yeah | 06:18 |
ogra | to make the system aware of the change | 06:18 |
bob | its just full of missing stuff | 06:18 |
ogra | sure, as i said its pretty broken based on a daily base ... | 06:18 |
bob | haha ok | 06:19 |
bob | how can i rebuild the chroot? i really cant work out whats going wrong any more | 06:19 |
ogra | its in steady development :) | 06:19 |
ogra | sudo rm -f /opt/ltsp/i386 | 06:19 |
ogra | sudo ltsp-build-client | 06:20 |
bob | ta! | 06:20 |
bob | whats the -f flag for? | 06:20 |
ogra | force | 06:20 |
bob | ta | 06:20 |
ogra | else it wont delete directorys | 06:20 |
bob | hmm doesnt work, shall i bung an R in too? | 06:21 |
ogra | whats the error ? | 06:22 |
bob | 'is a directory' | 06:22 |
ogra | oh, yes -rf is better then :) | 06:23 |
ogra | sorry | 06:23 |
bob | :) | 06:23 |
bob | so the sources file is right with all the breezys made dapper, right? | 06:23 |
ogra | yup | 06:24 |
bob | cool | 06:25 |
bob | i can deal with dodgyness as long sa i know its meant to be dodgy... | 06:28 |
ogra | ok ... | 06:28 |
ogra | but this doggyness can also mean your network interfaces dont work and change names on every boot for example ... (a current problem ) | 06:29 |
bob | ahhh | 06:29 |
bob | well not had much luck with brezy so i figured it was worth a shot :p | 06:31 |
bob | hang on | 06:36 |
bob | do i have to create seperate logins for clients? | 06:36 |
ogra | you cant use the same user on all clients ... (you can, but themes break for example, dapper has a fix for that, but its not commited yet) | 06:37 |
bob | hmm | 06:38 |
bob | wlel | 06:38 |
bob | it just booted ok, but its still not liking logins | 06:38 |
ogra | you rebuilt the chroot ? | 06:40 |
bob | you mean i just cant log in to more than one machine at a time, right? | 06:40 |
bob | yeha | 06:40 |
ogra | you can log in as many times as you want ... | 06:40 |
bob | ok | 06:40 |
bob | so what do you mean by i cant use the same user on all clients? | 06:40 |
ogra | but not with the same user if you dont want your themes and wallpapers to break | 06:40 |
bob | ahh ok, differnt screen resses and stuff? | 06:41 |
ogra | nope, window frames and wallpapers on the destop etc ... | 06:42 |
bob | ahh ok | 06:42 |
bob | so you got any idea why logins arent working properly? | 06:42 |
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mezzapazza | hi all | 06:42 |
mezzapazza | anyone with some knowledge on LTSP around here? | 06:43 |
ogra | bob, is your /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts having the right IP of your server ? | 06:43 |
ogra | bob, if not, run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys | 06:43 |
bob | yup, the only 2 ips there are the server address | 06:44 |
ogra | and actually the one that the thin clients are connected to i hope ... | 06:45 |
bob | nope :( | 06:45 |
bob | oh | 06:45 |
bob | soryr | 06:45 |
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=== mezzapazza is trying to run KDE on LTSP client | ||
bob | you mean the ip of the sever the thins are connected to? | 06:45 |
ogra | bob, yes | 06:45 |
bob | yeah | 06:45 |
ogra | ok, and sshd is running on the server ? | 06:45 |
bob | yeah | 06:46 |
ogra | and *no* user can log in ? not even the one you created during install ? | 06:46 |
ogra | i.e. the admin user | 06:47 |
ogra | mezzapazza, on the *client* ? | 06:47 |
mezzapazza | ogra yep | 06:47 |
ogra | hmm, why ? | 06:47 |
bob | ogra, yup, i just get login incorrect | 06:47 |
ogra | bob, where do you get that ? there is no such message in ldm (the login manager we use in ltsp) | 06:48 |
mezzapazza | ogra hmmm... i want to run linux in cyber cafe, and our users are accustomed to win | 06:48 |
mezzapazza | installed kubuntu-desktop metapackage | 06:48 |
ogra | mezzapazza, no i mean why do you want to install it in the client ? | 06:48 |
bob | it says 'ltsp login', and i type the user and pass, and it just says 'Login incorrect' | 06:49 |
bob | it says 'ltsp login' too? | 06:49 |
ogra | you usually only use kernel and X on the client, the rest runs on the server | 06:49 |
mezzapazza | ogra ah... i didn't installed... just built it.. | 06:49 |
ogra | bob, do you have a gui at all on the client ? | 06:49 |
mezzapazza | but i can't make client run KDE | 06:49 |
bob | nope | 06:50 |
mezzapazza | even .xinitrc doesn't help :( | 06:50 |
ogra | mezzapazza, if you use the ubuntu ltsp implementation, all desktop tasks run on the server ... | 06:50 |
ogra | mezzapazza, sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager | 06:51 |
ogra | will give you the option to select the system default | 06:51 |
ogra | (which ldm will use then) | 06:51 |
ogra | bob, your thin client setup is broken ... you should have a gui login | 06:52 |
bob | ok | 06:52 |
bob | any ideas? | 06:52 |
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bob | could it just be a shit video card? | 06:52 |
ogra | bob, wipe the chroot as i told you above and rebuild the ltsp-client ... | 06:52 |
ogra | sorry, i'm in a meeting in #ltsp now | 06:53 |
bob | i did... | 06:53 |
bob | hmm | 06:53 |
bob | ok | 06:53 |
bob | thanks for your help btw... | 06:54 |
mezzapazza | There is only 1 program which provides x-session-manager | 06:54 |
mezzapazza | (/usr/bin/gnome-session). Nothing to configure. | 06:54 |
mezzapazza | although i have KDM installed | 06:54 |
ogra | hmm, are you sure you installed kubuntu-desktop on the server ? | 06:54 |
mezzapazza | no, this is what i did: | 06:55 |
mezzapazza | ltsp-build-client --root /var/ltsp/amd64/ --dist breezy --mirror http://hr.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu --late-packages kubuntu-desktop | 06:55 |
ogra | hmm, and your clients boot ? | 06:56 |
mezzapazza | yes | 06:56 |
ogra | late packages is reserved for the kernel package ... | 06:57 |
mezzapazza | hmm | 06:57 |
mezzapazza | it boots just fine untill i try to login in X | 06:57 |
bob | ogra, would i help if i rebuilt the client with --dist breezy as well? | 06:59 |
mezzapazza | well, installing kubuntu-desktop on the server now, will keep asking questions in a few hours | 07:00 |
mezzapazza | tnx for help ogra! | 07:00 |
ogra | i'll be available after the meeting ... | 07:06 |
bob | thats cool, no hurry :) | 07:07 |
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C-O-L-T | hy there | 07:50 |
C-O-L-T | anybody there? | 07:50 |
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mhz | ogra: ebuntu? | 09:27 |
ogra | mhz, yes :( very bad name choice | 09:28 |
ogra | but what should we do about that ? | 09:28 |
mhz | kill'em all! | 09:31 |
ogra | heh+ | 09:31 |
=== mhz loves e17 | ||
mhz | well, all 17 y.o. girls :D | 09:32 |
ogra | me hates e17 | 09:32 |
juliux | /me loves gnome | 09:32 |
=== juliux loves gnome | ||
juliux | and since yesterday it is very fast here | 09:33 |
=== signifer123 loves gnome too | ||
=== mhz loves e17 + wmaker + fluxbox | ||
=== ogra loves WMs that stick to standards ... | ||
ogra | e17 is clearly not among these | 09:36 |
ogra | as their devs declare | 09:36 |
mhz | ohhh | 09:36 |
ogra | there are some statements from rasterman ... "we give a shit on freedesktop ... etc" | 09:37 |
mhz | ogra: last week I had the chance to read 'xfce developers' do not use freedesktop standards regarding icons naming | 09:37 |
mhz | and did not want to | 09:37 |
mhz | fortunately, Daniele Favara, aka nomed in dsslive project, convinced them to follow the standards | 09:38 |
ogra | but they stick to most other standards from freedesktop ... | 09:38 |
ogra | disagreement is fine ... but refusing collaboration as a whole and reinvent the wheel (even if its shiny) is bad | 09:38 |
mhz | ogra: oh, then I agree with you again! :( | 09:39 |
signifer123 | so is edubuntu switching to another desktop? | 10:00 |
ogra | nope | 10:00 |
signifer123 | :-p | 10:00 |
signifer123 | good... | 10:00 |
bob | hey ogra, you have any thgouhts on why my clients arent booting? shall i rebuild the ltsp client again with some different options? | 10:09 |
mhz | bob: not booting? or not logging in? | 10:12 |
ogra | bob, what hardware specs have these clients ? | 10:13 |
ogra | i suspect you have to less mem to start an X server or a weird graphics card ... | 10:14 |
ogra | mhz, the x server doesnt start | 10:15 |
mhz | ogra: ok, so they boot, the server has X running BUt the clients ? | 10:17 |
ogra | yes, the clients only start in console mode | 10:18 |
ogra | i guess they are not >64MB or have a graphics card we dont know about (i suspect the first) | 10:18 |
mhz | yah, me too | 10:19 |
ogra | (since i cant imagine a unsupported graphics card for our xorg server) | 10:19 |
mhz | hehhe | 10:19 |
mhz | unles it is from other planet | 10:19 |
mhz | are the clients x86 or ppc? | 10:19 |
mhz | or arm? | 10:20 |
ogra | no idea, but i suspect x86 | 10:20 |
ogra | bob ? | 10:20 |
mhz | maybe he uses xfce and the mouse ate his tongue | 10:20 |
mhz | ;p | 10:21 |
ogra | thats a xfce feature ? | 10:21 |
mhz | lol | 10:21 |
=== ogra makes note not to use xfce :) | ||
mhz | ogra: yes, silent mode | 10:21 |
mhz | ohhh, silent fingers | 10:22 |
bob | whoops., worry | 10:22 |
bob | sorry | 10:22 |
bob | i dont really know the hardware specs. what was the command again, lspci? | 10:23 |
ogra | free | 10:23 |
bob | pretty rubbish i reckon | 10:23 |
ogra | to get the amount of memory | 10:23 |
ogra | cat /proc/cpuinfo | 10:23 |
bob | k ill just boot it | 10:23 |
ogra | to get CPU stats | 10:23 |
ogra | you need to set a root password in the chroot to be able to log in | 10:24 |
ogra | sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd | 10:24 |
bob | k | 10:24 |
mhz | oooh, chrooting | 10:24 |
ogra | use root and this password to log in on the client | 10:25 |
ogra | (note the first password thats requested is for sudo ... the second one is for the chroot) | 10:25 |
bob | oih hang on somehting odd is happening, gonan reboot. | 10:25 |
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bob | hmm that passwd command just gives an error | 10:35 |
bob | sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd | 10:35 |
ogra | yes | 10:35 |
ogra | it first asks for your user password ... | 10:35 |
ogra | then offers you to set a root password in the chroot | 10:35 |
bob | yeah it just says no such command | 10:35 |
bob | 'canot run comamnd 'passwd': no such file or directory | 10:36 |
ogra | can you give the exact errormessage ? | 10:36 |
bob | ahh hang on, i might have tried to reinstall the client again earlier and it messed up, i thgouht it hadnt done anything, but... | 10:37 |
bob | ill rebuild again | 10:37 |
bob | shall i use any parameters for the rebuild? | 10:37 |
ogra | hmm, be really carfull... if you broek it during build it might mees up the server | 10:39 |
ogra | you dont need parameters ... | 10:39 |
bob | ok | 10:39 |
bob | what was the command again? | 10:39 |
ogra | but if /proc is mounted inside the chroot it will break your server ... if you cant unmount /proc there you cant fix it ... | 10:40 |
ogra | and if there is no shell in the chroot, you cant chroot to unmount /proc there ... its a chicken egg problem | 10:40 |
bob | i think i tried to delete it when it was still kind of doing something, and there was still 2 files tied up | 10:40 |
ogra | ouch | 10:41 |
bob | problem? | 10:41 |
bob | you think i just need a reinstall? | 10:41 |
ogra | thats likely a problem that i cant solve ... | 10:41 |
bob | hmm | 10:41 |
bob | anything thats wortha try? | 10:41 |
ogra | if its meesed up anyway you will need to reinstall ... but in that case it wont break more if you try rebuilding the chroot :) | 10:42 |
ogra | sudo ltsp-build-client | 10:42 |
ogra | no options | 10:43 |
ogra | and wipe /opt/ltsp/i386 first | 10:43 |
bob | k | 10:43 |
ogra | s/wipe/remove/ | 10:43 |
bob | ahh its already going, i did rm -fr /opt/ltsp/i386 thoguh? | 10:43 |
bob | it sounds like its probably the graphics card thats the issue though | 10:44 |
ogra | unlikely ... i cant imagine a graphics card our xserver doesnt know .... | 10:45 |
ogra | i rather suspect the clients have less than 64MB ... | 10:45 |
bob | ram? ok | 10:46 |
ogra | yes, ram | 10:46 |
bob | is that the minimum? | 10:46 |
ogra | yes | 10:48 |
bob | k | 10:49 |
bob | itd be sueful to ahve all the absolute min specs on the wiki :) | 10:49 |
bob | unless they already are | 10:49 |
ogra | they arent and i cant really tell them for breezy ... | 10:49 |
bob | ah ok | 10:50 |
ogra | i'll release them for dapper since there i did measuring ... | 10:50 |
bob | cool :) | 10:50 |
ogra | but dapper will for example support network swap, so the ram can be less ... | 10:50 |
ogra | (thats the feature i'm currently working on) | 10:50 |
bob | wow | 10:51 |
bob | what is your general ubuntu type job then? :) | 10:51 |
ogra | hacking on ltsp, caring for the screensaver and maintaining edubuntu | 10:51 |
bob | cool | 10:51 |
bob | ok its done, shall i try that passwd thing again? | 10:52 |
ogra | additionally with some standard ubuntu stuff like random bugfixing etc | 10:52 |
ogra | its done ?? | 10:52 |
bob | ah good stuff. how many people are there working on it? | 10:52 |
ogra | you must have a fast connection then .... | 10:52 |
bob | 8meg on a good day... | 10:52 |
ogra | about 10 full employed for the whole distro ... | 10:52 |
ogra | one is completely working on kubuntu as i am on edubuntu | 10:53 |
ogra | so that leaves 8 for ubuntu :) | 10:53 |
bob | how do you get funding? can you aplpy for grants and stuff? | 10:53 |
ogra | i'm paied by canonical Ltd | 10:54 |
bob | ok the password has set ok... | 10:54 |
ogra | ok, now find out how much ram you have ... | 10:54 |
ogra | use the "free" command after login | 10:54 |
bob | ah ok, cool, free software is amasing and the fact people can get paid to do it rules... | 10:55 |
bob | 123meg it says | 10:56 |
ogra | thats plenaty | 10:56 |
ogra | *plenty | 10:56 |
ogra | cat /proc/cpuinfo | 10:57 |
ogra | lets see what kind of cpu you have | 10:57 |
bob | amd-k6 3d processor | 10:57 |
bob | 501mhz | 10:57 |
ogra | wow, thats a good thin client | 10:58 |
ogra | ok, now lspci and look for the VGA device | 10:58 |
bob | its one of the better boxes | 10:58 |
bob | ati mach 64 | 10:58 |
bob | gx | 10:58 |
ogra | hmm ... | 10:59 |
ogra | that should be detected | 10:59 |
bob | it comes up with the proper boot loader now and it didnt before | 10:59 |
ogra | gui ? | 10:59 |
bob | nah | 10:59 |
ogra | less /etc/X11/xorg.conf and look for the Driver section | 11:00 |
ogra | there should be ati or radeon in it | 11:00 |
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bob | hmm theres a device section but no driver section? | 11:01 |
bob | and a section called DRI | 11:01 |
ogra | ah, sorry | 11:05 |
ogra | i meant Driver | 11:05 |
ogra | Section "Device" | 11:05 |
ogra | Identifier "ATI Technologies, Inc. M11 NV [FireGL Mobility T2e] " | 11:05 |
ogra | Driver "ati" | 11:05 |
ogra | BusID "PCI:0:16:0" | 11:05 |
ogra | Option "UseFBDev" "true" | 11:05 |
ogra | EndSection | 11:05 |
ogra | something like that ... | 11:05 |
bob | yup | 11:06 |
bob | got it | 11:06 |
ogra | what does it say ? | 11:06 |
ogra | (the driver line) | 11:06 |
bob | driver, "ati", busid "pci:0:9:0" | 11:07 |
ogra | sounds ok | 11:07 |
ogra | hmm ... | 11:07 |
ogra | try running startx and see if there is an error | 11:07 |
bob | just at the fatal server error: no screens found... | 11:08 |
bob | whoops | 11:08 |
bob | ignore the just at the | 11:08 |
ogra | hmm | 11:08 |
bob | you want the rest? | 11:08 |
ogra | nope | 11:08 |
ogra | thats evil enough :) | 11:08 |
bob | something about an error unlocking an authority file too | 11:08 |
ogra | what kind of monitors do the clients have ? | 11:09 |
bob | umm | 11:09 |
bob | quite old | 11:09 |
bob | shall i try a differnt monitor? | 11:09 |
ogra | yup | 11:09 |
bob | k | 11:09 |
ogra | i need to change from isdn to dsl, brb | 11:09 |
bob | k | 11:11 |
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bob | wow this is special | 11:17 |
bob | i changed the moniutor | 11:17 |
bob | ran xserver, and it seemed to freeze up | 11:17 |
bob | so i rebooted and now im geting 'kernel panic - not syncing' | 11:17 |
ogra | try another boot ... | 11:18 |
ogra | that looks like a network issue | 11:18 |
bob | k | 11:19 |
bob | there is a rogue dhcp server i cant turn off | 11:19 |
ogra | ouch | 11:20 |
ogra | thats a problem | 11:20 |
bob | rubbish router control panel | 11:20 |
bob | ah gottit this time | 11:20 |
bob | normally the srever wins the dhcp race... wow geek olympics/ | 11:20 |
bob | hmm it keeps doing it, its well eird this has just started | 11:25 |
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ogra | its intresting that you could boot at all | 11:27 |
ogra | normally it breaks heavily with a second dhcp server | 11:27 |
bob | you think that is most likely my problem? | 11:28 |
ogra | with booting, yes | 11:28 |
bob | (or one of the many) | 11:28 |
ogra | not the one with the X server | 11:28 |
bob | its really not liking it al all now | 11:28 |
bob | hmm | 11:28 |
bob | is there any way i can set the clients to only accept dhcp off the server or anything? | 11:29 |
ogra | nope | 11:29 |
ogra | you cant predict which dhcp server answers first ... | 11:29 |
ogra | and you can force it only with a highly complicated setup if you run one of them on a different port ... | 11:30 |
bob | arg | 11:30 |
ogra | but that would take the whole night to get running | 11:30 |
bob | haha | 11:30 |
bob | hmm | 11:30 |
bob | what a pain | 11:30 |
bob | ok ill disconenct t'internet temporarly | 11:30 |
bob | brb | 11:30 |
bob | something fishy is going on | 11:35 |
bob | crc error: ssytem halted? | 11:37 |
ogra | huh ? | 11:37 |
bob | on boot | 11:37 |
bob | something really really odd is going on with this router | 11:37 |
bob | arg, sorry about this | 11:38 |
bob | its so weird its only just started being an issue | 11:38 |
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bob | crc error: system halted, this is probably still a network problem yes? | 11:39 |
ogra | no idea ... sounds rather like a BIOS problem | 11:40 |
ogra | or like it tries to boot from a non existent HD | 11:40 |
bob | ook ill have a poke | 11:41 |
bob | whod have thoguht changing a monitor could cause so much problem... | 11:41 |
mhz | ogra: ever used xmaxima ? | 11:41 |
ogra | whats that ? | 11:41 |
mhz | it's a mix of math apps | 11:42 |
mhz | octave is one of them | 11:42 |
mhz | but the gui... sucks so badly that I don't even dare to inculde it as a default edu apps | 11:42 |
mhz | I mean, the app is excellent, but its windows... too terrible | 11:43 |
bob | ahhh ok. i was plugging it into the main box for power, plugged the monitor in seperately and its fine. psu must be on its last legs | 11:43 |
ogra | mhz, what makes you think about including windows apps ? | 11:45 |
mhz | ogra: I mean windows as in "the windows you use for your linux apps" | 11:46 |
mhz | with the x button at the corner | 11:46 |
ogra | heh | 11:46 |
mhz | oh, you were kidding??!! | 11:46 |
mhz | I see | 11:46 |
ogra | :) | 11:46 |
mhz | your back is so much better | 11:46 |
mhz | OR | 11:47 |
mhz | you have no mdz pressure | 11:47 |
mhz | hehehe | 11:47 |
mhz | OR | 11:47 |
mhz | your girlfriend is turning into a geek too | 11:48 |
mhz | (that would be nice) | 11:48 |
ogra | in fact i'm spending the last 10 mins of my birthday, having a glass of merlot and syncing the live isos for testing | 11:48 |
mhz | (but usually means she is not that pretty) :D | 11:48 |
ogra | and my DSL is back .... | 11:49 |
mhz | ogra: ooh, Happy day of Birth! | 11:49 |
ogra | thanks :) | 11:49 |
bob | its your birthday?? | 11:49 |
bob | happy birthday! | 11:49 |
mhz | to you ... | 11:49 |
ogra | thanks as well bob :) | 11:49 |
bob | you should probabyl get off the internet and do something in the real world :) | 11:49 |
ogra | it nearly *was* ... | 11:49 |
mhz | ogra: I can get you a nice bottle of wine if Mark lets you come here by the end of april | 11:50 |
mhz | thers's lot of fine viriety to choose from here | 11:50 |
ogra | mhz, lets see ... its very tight with the ubuntu conference ... | 11:50 |
mhz | nah | 11:50 |
ogra | nah ? | 11:51 |
mhz | Jeff Waugh has already agreed to come, So has Daniele Favara | 11:51 |
mhz | ogra: not that tight | 11:51 |
mhz | LA tour could easily take 10 days to do 4-5 countries | 11:51 |
ogra | really ? jdub agreed ? | 11:52 |
mhz | plus... with a nice bottle of chilean wine you would definately feel more loose | 11:52 |
ogra | cool | 11:52 |
ogra | i'd *love* to come ... | 11:52 |
mhz | just come | 11:52 |
mhz | :) | 11:52 |
ogra | heh | 11:53 |
ogra | lets see what mark says ... :) | 11:53 |
=== MotherLUG [n=karin@29.124.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #edubuntu | ||
mhz | he'llprobably say yeah, "I'll support from here" | 11:54 |
mhz | :) | 11:54 |
ogra | its two weeks ago that i talked to him ... he didnt mention anything ... when did you mail him ? | 11:54 |
mhz | ogra: but I can't even express how important it is for some LA countries the tour takes place. There's really lots of reasons | 11:55 |
bob | right, im not gna bother you any more on your birthday :p have a good one ogra, thanks for your help (yet again...) :) | 11:55 |
mhz | ogra: I have emailed him at least 5 mails from 2 weeks ago until monday or tuesday | 11:55 |
ogra | bob my bday is over in 4 minutes ... dont worry | 11:56 |
ogra | bah | 11:56 |
mhz | ogra: and JaneW has been CC'ed every email I sent to Mark | 11:57 |
ogra | mhz, i'll talk to him once he's back | 11:57 |
mhz | please | 11:57 |
=== mhz is now known as mhz_cook | ||
mhz_cook | ogra: thx | 11:59 |
ogra | :) | 11:59 |
mhz_cook | ogra: and about higher end-users (university opnes or science highschool), xmaxima is the fines reference in linux | 12:03 |
mhz_cook | it is just its front end or gui that looks crappy for 2006 users | 12:04 |
mhz_cook | very much like default emacs | 12:04 |
mhz_cook | maybe worst | 12:04 |
ogra | shudder | 12:04 |
mhz_cook | shudder? | 12:04 |
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