/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/02/21/#edubuntu.txt

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mhzjsgotangco: ping03:08
jsgotangcohi03:09
mhzavailable?03:10
mhzjsgotangco: ?03:10
jsgotangcosure03:11
jsgotangcowhat's up03:11
mhzjsgotangco: could we meet?03:11
jsgotangcoaren't we doing it now?03:12
jsgotangcojheh03:12
mhzjsgotangco: so, far I have no experience on writing guides nor books. However, I do feel there are certain points to set: Audience, Deepness, Average look, Format, etc 03:13
jsgotangcodid you see the wiki page?03:13
mhzat my lunch time, 13 hours ago03:13
jsgotangcoi don't want to delve on setting up the whole server03:13
mhzThe Edubuntu 6.04 Quick Guide03:14
mhz    *03:14
mhz      ?/IntroductionToEdubuntu03:14
mhz    *03:14
mhz      ?/GettingStartedWithTheEdubuntuDesktop03:14
mhz    *03:14
mhz      ?/TheEdubuntuApplications03:14
mhz    *03:14
mhz      ?/BeyondEdubuntuBasics03:14
jsgotangcoi just want the basic desktop apps shown03:15
jsgotangcothat is unique to edubuntu03:15
mhzjsgotangco: My guess is that chapters 3 and 4 will take longer03:15
jsgotangcobecause an ubuntu manual alrady addresses those03:15
mhzjsgotangco: agree03:15
jsgotangco4 is just a table pointing to more complex tasks03:15
jsgotangcothis thing shouldnt even go beyond 5 sections03:16
mhzJaneW: 3, how deep do you picture it?03:16
mhzsorry03:16
mhzjsgotangco: :)03:16
jsgotangcointro is the usual intro03:17
mhzjsgotangco: and 4, do you want to talk about each application or just table them ?03:17
jsgotangcoand marketing stuff03:17
jsgotangcomhz, the edubuntu desktop apps is less than 1503:18
jsgotangcoand those apps have their own manuals03:18
mhzjsgotangco: it depends.. Gcompris itself is about 40 apps03:18
jsgotangcoi'm not planning to show everything on gcompris03:19
mhzjsgotangco: so you are happy with just a description of each app?03:19
jsgotangcopretty much03:20
jsgotangcounless you have something better03:20
jsgotangco1) Need Math -> 2) Go here03:20
jsgotangco1) Need English -> 2) Go here03:20
mhzjsgotangco: did you see what i listed here? https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSoftwareList03:21
mhzjsgotangco: oh, I see, so you picture it divided in areas03:21
mhzthematic areas03:21
mhzor subject areas03:22
jsgotangcoyes03:22
jsgotangcobut i'm not a teacher, so that03:22
jsgotangcothat's just a guess03:22
mhzhmmmm03:22
jsgotangcothis is nice03:22
mhzwhat if we have them 'crossed'03:22
jsgotangcowe can move this03:22
mhz#4 Could be: Need Math -> Go here...03:23
mhzNeed Junior -> Go there03:23
jsgotangcoi wish i had a working edubuntu now03:23
mhzjsgotangco: so maybe we can easily list all apps by 'categories'03:23
mhzby 'ages'03:24
mhzand by 'subjects/areas'03:24
mhzwe use EdubuntuSoftwareList as a base DB03:25
jsgotangcoim not that familiar with the age groups for the apps03:25
jsgotangcothe wiki page can be massaged then moved to the distro03:25
mhzyup03:25
jsgotangcohmm03:26
jsgotangcowho wrote this?03:26
mhzand if we included screenshots, a user may click on an application name, get to a mini wiki page with the shot and short description03:26
jsgotangcohmm03:27
mhz18th versions, 17 writen by me03:27
jsgotangcowould it be possible in our short time frame to make a wiki version for each app?03:27
mhzsure03:27
mhzpiece of cake03:27
jsgotangcoi'll proabably install 5.10 first in a machine03:27
jsgotangcothen just grab screenshots03:27
jsgotangcojust the desktop specific apps03:28
jsgotangcois that good?03:28
mhzgood03:28
mhzjsgotangco: so, let's write a mini roadmap?03:29
jsgotangcoyes03:29
mhzwrite = agree03:29
jsgotangcocan you create a draft in the wiki?03:29
jsgotangcoi03:29
mhzsure03:29
jsgotangcoi'm currently doing something with a firewall03:29
jsgotangcowhat i'll do first is fix up my machine for 5.1003:29
mhzgo ahead, let me get a coffe and get my hands on it03:29
mhzjsgotangco: heheh03:29
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mhzjsgotangco: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuQuickguide/RoadMap04:19
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jsgotangcolooks good to me04:21
jsgotangcoi can finish up the screenshots04:21
jsgotangcofrom 5.1004:21
jsgotangcohopefully not much have changed04:21
mhz_tiredjsgotangco: I have like 10 or more screenshots04:21
mhz_tiredabout Gcompris and some other junior apps04:22
jsgotangcotha's ok i can do some more again04:22
jsgotangcoand just compare when we're done04:22
mhz_tiredcool04:22
jsgotangcohopefull, we'll have enough space on the CD04:22
jsgotangcoheh04:22
mhz_tiredhehehe04:22
mhz_tiredjsgotangco: any chances a user can be directed from Yelp to Firefox?04:23
jsgotangcothen go to the internet?04:23
mhz_tiredor any chances we set that 'help button' to open a firefox tab04:23
mhz_tired?04:23
mhz_tirednope, localhost04:23
jsgotangcodirect from Yelp to firefox?04:23
jsgotangcohmm04:24
mhz_tirednope, localhost/EdubuntuQuickGuide04:24
jsgotangcoyelp renders html04:24
jsgotangcoa like to file will open up in yelp i think04:24
mhz_tiredjsgotangco: I am imagining, localhost = Welcome to Edubuntu!04:24
jsgotangcobut a link to http will open up the default browser04:24
mhz_tiredlike DSL does it04:25
mhz_tiredyou run DSL and get presented with a browser with all the info you need04:25
mhz_tiredto start up04:25
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highvoltagehi ribbo 09:50
ribbohi highvoltage 09:53
ribboso, much action here?09:53
jsgotangco:D10:01
highvoltageribbo: sometimes, yes.10:08
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pips1highvoltage, hi!10:36
highvoltagehi pips1 10:37
highvoltagelong time no see10:37
pips1how is it going! yes!10:37
highvoltagevery busy down here, a lot of things going on, good and bad!10:37
pips1I was very busy with my day job since december...10:37
pips1I piled up a lot of overtime and now I get to compensate :-)10:38
highvoltage:)10:38
pips1Did you get the mail re edubuntu website from JaneW ?10:38
highvoltageyes, i have10:39
highvoltagemhz, hno73, etc. will work to make the moin part better10:39
pips1Well, I wanted to really get going with the website ... :-)10:39
highvoltageso that we'll eventually be able to do everything we wanted with drupal, but with moin (hopefully)10:39
pips1ah10:40
highvoltagei'm not quite sure how that will work yet, i'm a bit behind on that myseld10:40
pips1i noticed that hno73 revamped the ubuntu site to use moin now :-)10:40
highvoltages/myseld/myself10:40
highvoltageyep, the plone site broke into a "million tiny pieces" and they couldn't get it back up again :)10:41
pips1moin/wikis are great for community contributions10:41
highvoltageyep10:42
pips1still, I thought that there will be the need for an "official" site with it's own set of needs10:42
pips1hm10:42
highvoltageseems not, hey :/10:42
highvoltagehow much of your original plans will be applicable to the moin site?10:42
highvoltagecan it be adjusted, and can we implement the most part of it and then find ways for the rest?10:43
highvoltageor does it depend heavily on drupals taxonimy?10:43
pips1well, I the meeting yesterday, I proposed to have a go at a drupal site (for the "official" stuff)10:43
pips1JaneW proposed that we meet on monday and decide how to go forward exactly10:43
pips1I intend to demo the drupal test site I'm currently building...10:44
highvoltagenot a bad idea, i considered this too10:44
pips1then we'll vote if we need/use drupal or go moin completely...10:44
highvoltageso far, i think you'll have 3 votes for drupal10:45
highvoltageperhaps if that demo site is up, it will jump up quite drastically10:45
pips1well, we'll see ;-)10:45
highvoltage:)10:45
highvoltagegtg, talk again l8r10:45
pips1ok, if you get a spare minute, get in touch with me :-)10:45
Kamping_Kaiseri have a laptop here I'm about to install something on, but after that's done, does anyone think i should install edubuntu to test how it goes? i know ubuntu Breezy  runs perfectly, so i asume edu will work just as well10:50
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pips1Kamping_Kaiser, if you install on a laptop you might want to do the "workstation" install 10:57
Kamping_Kaiserpips1: ok thanks. *checks the wiki to see what the difference is*10:57
pips1If you want to test the current (unstable) Dapper version, please report your findings in the wiki here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu if you can :-)10:59
Kamping_Kaisermy iso is Breezy (my ISP don't mirror Ubuntu's unstalbe isos)11:00
pips1btw, I am running unstable "flight3" on a test pc (amd64) and it's fine just now11:01
pips1oh, I see11:01
Kamping_Kaiserpips1: i have a desktop pc that someone installed edubuntu on (i have it because of flppy issues)11:01
Kamping_Kaiser*floppy11:01
Kamping_KaiserI'm just wondering how a lappy would handle it11:01
pips1ok11:01
pips1depends on your model, I guess11:02
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pips1on my ibm thinkpad it runs rather well :-)11:03
Kamping_Kaiser:) this is a compac armada11:05
pips1maybe somebody already tested your model, have a look https://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/LaptopTestingTeam11:12
Kamping_KaiserI'm installing for interest sake, but thanks for the url11:12
pips1sure :-)11:13
Kamping_Kaiser:)11:13
pips1well, you might want to report your findings (hint hint) ;-)11:14
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Kamping_Kaiser<grin>11:16
Kamping_Kaisermaybe :) I'm just giving livelamp the evil eye. when I'm finished doing that I'll try EdU11:16
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Kamping_Kaiserhttp://tangram.dnsalias.net:8008/gallery/LCA06-0129/p1280213 rofl11:35
ograJaneW, for your pleasance: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-February/006434.html11:53
jsgotangcobirthday gift for ogra : http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/about-edubuntu/C/index.html11:53
jsgotangcoit now builds11:53
JaneWogra: YAY11:54
ograjsgotangco, we should probably drop the moodle stuff ...11:54
ograwe wont ship it ...11:54
JaneWjsgotangco:  nice :)11:54
ograor rewrite it to: edubuntu recommends moodle for class management ...11:55
jsgotangcodinner11:56
=== Kamping_Kaiser thinks it needs to be eaiser to find out what a "server" "workstation" and "default" instlal of EdU does :/ wonder if theres any on doc.ubuntu....
ograworkstation installs edubuntu-desktop on top of a normal ubuntu system ...12:03
ograserver should be renamed to "minimal" 12:03
Kamping_Kaiserso server is same as a normal ubuntu cd? (i agree about minimal)12:03
ograand default installs (and configures) edubuntu-server and edubuntu-desktop12:03
ograyes12:03
Kamping_Kaiserok.12:03
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Kamping_Kaiser*does workstation install*12:04
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lucasvowhat's the user password in the vmware virtual machine of ubuntu(cdimages.ubuntu.com/vmware)01:59
jsgotangcoubuntu01:59
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Kamping_Kaiserhm. Edu workstation is going nice on this laptop :O only problem so far is the modem, but I'll check that out later. :)02:03
jsgotangcohmm02:03
jsgotangcoi havent tested the daily build02:03
jsgotangcox86 looks sane02:03
ograKamping_Kaiser, dapper ? 02:04
jsgotangcoi still want to sulk over gnome-xchat though02:04
Kamping_Kaiserogra: no, Breezy02:04
jsgotangcoheh02:04
ograjsgotangco, i wont use it ...02:04
Kamping_Kaiseri cant download dapper on my connection :\02:04
jsgotangcoogra: i agree02:04
Kamping_Kaiserlol jsgotangco02:04
=== jsgotangco wonders the rationale of this
ograme neither today :(02:04
Kamping_Kaiserprobably integrated or something02:05
ograDSL broke ... i'm on ISDN ... 64k isnt really for syncing isos ...02:05
jsgotangcoim using it now but this is worse than using gaim for irc02:05
Kamping_Kaiserwow02:05
=== jsgotangco using a daily build
Kamping_Kaiserthat's bad02:05
=== Kamping_Kaiser is trying to use synaptic to add repos+dist-upgrade... it takes for ever!!
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jsgotangcoogra: but ISDN is pretty expensive over there right?02:07
ograyup02:07
ograbut hey ... i had to upload a new ltsp today and need to attend two meetings ..02:07
jsgotangcoyeah02:08
jsgotangcoerr kubuntu meeting?02:08
jsgotangco:D02:08
ogralol, nope02:09
ogradevelopment status meeting ... and a ltsp meeting adterwards 02:09
ogra*afterwards02:10
jsgotangcohmm02:10
=== jsgotangco doesn't see an ltsp meeting
jsgotangcoahhh02:10
jsgotangcomust be sudden02:10
ogradebian/ubuntu ltsp teams meet in #ltsp 18:00 UTC ...02:12
ograits not a ubuntu meeting ... was initiated from the debian group02:12
jsgotangcoheh this sucks i live in a timezone where all the action is happening at dawn02:12
jsgotangcoogra: that's nice...your work is paying off02:12
ogralets see :)02:12
ograthey're not happy with some decisions and implementations ... its debian ...02:13
jsgotangcodo you know why xchat-gnome has become default?02:13
jsgotangcoogra: why so? we're using muecow...02:13
ograthey want no autoconfiguration but do everything manually ...02:13
jsgotangcothat's supposed to be ltsp-ng02:13
ograthey use our package since quite some time ...02:13
jsgotangcohmmm02:15
jsgotangcodoes mdz also maintain ltsp in debian?02:16
ogramdz doesnt maintin ltsp anymore02:16
ograthats my job02:16
jsgotangcooh!02:17
ograhe just looks over the code from time to time and complains if i did something wrong ...02:17
ograbut http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/dapper/ is the upstream archive for muecow in debian/ubuntu currently ...02:18
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jsgotangcoogra: schools need bling! schools need compiz!04:05
jsgotangcohehe04:05
ograpfft04:05
ograI'm SO annoyed by all the xgl stuff ...04:06
ograspams lists and channels for no good reason ... and wont be ready within the next 10 months ...04:06
ograxgl will be great if done though ... but it sidetracks everybody from getting dapper ready ...04:07
jsgotangcoright but let me enjoy this till next week since i'll be speaking in a trade show hehehe04:07
ogra:)04:07
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jsgotangcoat the moment, its really just wow factor04:08
jsgotangconothing useful04:08
ograit will hopefully replace xorg soon ... its far better by design ... but its not even dapper+1 stuff imho...04:08
vmarksI remember when xorg was the best thing going.04:09
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ogravmarks, doing all drawing by GL will give you a lot benefit even onn old hardware ...04:10
vmarksoh yes.04:11
vmarksthat's for certain.04:11
vmarksI was just reminiscing.04:11
Kamping_Kaiserogra: problem is people wont put effort into old hardware - and theats where it's needed04:11
Kamping_Kaiser*that's 04:11
ograKamping_Kaiser, they will ... i'll scream and shout if edubuntu cant support old hardware ;)04:12
Kamping_Kaiser:D04:12
Kamping_Kaisergood. *knows what thin clients on old hardware are like*04:13
vmarksI find myself using old linux distributions or lighter weight window managers on old hardware.04:17
ogranot really necessary if you use ltsp ...04:17
vmarksalthough edubuntu seems to do remarkably well.04:18
ogra300Mhz and &$MB are fine for thin clients04:18
ograerr 04:18
ogra64MB04:18
vmarkswell, yes. but ltsp isn't perfect: I'm still hurting on the non-pxe booting.04:18
vmarksand 300mhz is a fast machine comparatively.04:18
ograi'll write a howto soon04:18
ogra300Mhz is PII class ...04:18
vmarksyes it is.04:19
ograthats already quite old :)04:19
vmarkssome of us have p166 and 200mmx still.04:19
vmarks:D04:19
ogra6 years ?04:19
ogra200mmx should be fine as well if you have the right amount of ram. ...04:19
Kamping_Kaiseritshares boxes are only 200mhz+96mb RAM (or was 12 months ago, it's about a 300/400 average now)04:20
Kamping_Kaiserso there's lots of 200s about04:20
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mhz_back4hrsogra: hi05:23
mhz_back4hrsogra: any ideal specs for NIC's for the Edubuntu server?05:23
mhz_back4hrsspeed? brand?05:23
ograPXE capable NICS are helpful ...05:23
ogra100Mbit as well05:24
ograoh, the server ...05:24
jsgotangcoive used a gigiabit NIC05:25
ogranot really ... i know people that say you should take 3com in any case, but to be honest i never saw regressions with other brands ...05:25
jsgotangcothen connected to a gigabit switch05:25
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jsgotangcobut a 100Mbit should actually work fine05:25
ograyeah, if you have a gbit switch its fine to use a gbit card 05:25
juliuxyou can also use the cards who have 4 ports05:26
juliuxand than connect every client directly to the server05:26
ograthat gets quite tricky ...05:26
ograah, yes05:26
ograi thought you wanted to trunk the lineks together 05:27
mhz_back4hrsso, bottom line ? :D05:27
ogra*lines05:27
juliuxogra, no 05:27
jsgotangcomhz_back4hrs: 100Mbit should work fine05:27
jsgotangcobut 1GBit is recommended05:27
mhz_back4hrsjsgotangco: ideal specs?05:27
mhz_back4hrsokis05:27
jsgotangcoyou should be generous to your server as much as possible05:27
mhz_back4hrsprocessor? from 1.7 GB (AMD) ?05:28
juliuxogra, the pci bus has more than 400MBit bandwidth, and so every client has 100MBit, but you can only connect 4 clients05:28
ogra100Mbit no specific brand at least ... ideally gbit for client and server and a T3 line to the internet ;P05:28
juliuxogra, only T3 ?05:28
ograheh05:28
jsgotangcoived used 64bit with good results05:28
=== juliux has here 100MBit internet connection
ogranah, a direct Gbit uplink to the provider will do as well, juliux 05:29
juliuxogra, the uni has only 622Mbit05:29
ograpfft ... lamers05:29
juliuxogra, but with a flatrate05:29
ograheh, funny05:29
juliuxogra, cost 1,5million + tax05:30
ograpeanuts ...05:30
juliuxogra, now you know why we have de.archives.ubuntu.com and ftp.de.debian.org here05:31
ogramhz_back4hrs, so just go with juliux recommendation and you wont run into problems :)05:31
mhz_back4hrshehe05:31
mhz_back4hrsjuliux rox!05:31
ograyes, he always has the cheap and easy solution for you :)05:32
juliuxhehe05:32
juliuxbut at home i also have only a normal dsl connection05:33
ograoh, you get dsl in dresden ? 05:33
ograi thought that wasnt possible ...05:33
juliuxno in hamburg05:33
ograoh05:33
ograyou moved ? 05:33
juliuxno there are my parents05:33
ograah05:34
juliuxand that is for me home05:34
juliuxnot dresden05:34
juliuxand in some parts of dresden you can get dsl05:34
juliuxbut it is like a gamble05:34
ograyup, thats what i heard05:35
juliuxbut you can get internet over wlan05:35
juliuxbut it is very slow05:35
ograas for most parts of eastern germany  ... where telekom was clever enough to replace all copper lines with fiber05:35
juliuxyes but you can also do dsl over fiber05:35
ograthey should offer you direct fiber access :)05:36
juliuxbut the telekom dont want to do this05:36
juliuxhansenet do it over fiber in hamburg05:36
ograits more expensive ... you need two more modulators ...05:37
juliuxthat could be but you get a normal kabel into your flat05:37
juliuxso you can use normal dsl hardware05:38
ograsure, but the provider has more costs ...05:38
juliuxyes but his own cables and not the cables from the telekom05:38
juliuxso you get more bandwidth05:38
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bobcould someone send me a working sources file for dapper? the updates are being well sketchy for me06:07
ograhow did you upgrade ? 06:08
ogranote that there is currently no clean way to upgrade the chroot, you need to rebuild it ...06:09
ograalso dont use dapper in a production environment, its far from being stable ...06:11
bobhmm ok06:17
bobi just replaces all the breezys for dappers06:17
bob*replaced06:17
ograthats fine for the server ...06:17
bobhmm06:18
ograafter that run sudo apt-get update  06:18
bobyeah06:18
ograto make the system aware of the change 06:18
bobits just full of missing stuff06:18
ograsure, as i said its pretty broken based on a daily base ...06:18
bobhaha ok06:19
bobhow can i rebuild the chroot? i really cant work out whats going wrong any more06:19
ograits in steady development :)06:19
ograsudo rm -f /opt/ltsp/i386 06:19
ograsudo ltsp-build-client06:20
bobta!06:20
bobwhats the -f flag for?06:20
ograforce06:20
bobta06:20
ograelse it wont delete directorys 06:20
bobhmm doesnt work, shall i bung an R in too?06:21
ograwhats the error ?06:22
bob'is a directory'06:22
ograoh, yes -rf is better then :)06:23
ograsorry 06:23
bob:)06:23
bobso the sources file is right with all the breezys made dapper, right?06:23
ograyup06:24
bobcool06:25
bobi can deal with dodgyness as long sa i know its meant to be dodgy...06:28
ograok ...06:28
ograbut this doggyness can also mean your network interfaces dont work and change names on every boot for example ... (a current problem )06:29
bobahhh06:29
bobwell not had much luck with brezy so i figured it was worth a shot :p06:31
bobhang on06:36
bobdo i have to create seperate logins for clients?06:36
ograyou cant use the same user on all clients ... (you can, but themes break for example, dapper has a fix for that, but its not commited yet)06:37
bobhmm06:38
bobwlel06:38
bobit just booted ok, but its still not liking logins06:38
ograyou rebuilt the chroot ? 06:40
bobyou mean i just cant log in to more than one machine at a time, right?06:40
bobyeha06:40
ograyou can log in as many times as you want ...06:40
bobok06:40
bobso what do you mean by i cant use the same user on all clients?06:40
ograbut not with the same user if you dont want your themes and wallpapers to break06:40
bobahh ok, differnt screen resses and stuff?06:41
ogranope, window frames and wallpapers on the destop etc ...06:42
bobahh ok06:42
bobso you got any idea why logins arent working properly?06:42
=== mezzapazza [n=glitch@83-131-15-127.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #edubuntu
mezzapazzahi all06:42
mezzapazzaanyone with some knowledge on LTSP around here?06:43
ograbob, is your /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts having the right IP of your server ?06:43
ograbob, if not, run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys06:43
bobyup, the only 2 ips there are the server address06:44
ograand actually the one that the thin clients are connected to i hope ...06:45
bobnope :(06:45
boboh06:45
bobsoryr06:45
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=== mezzapazza is trying to run KDE on LTSP client
bobyou mean the ip of the sever the thins are connected to?06:45
ograbob, yes 06:45
bobyeah06:45
ograok, and sshd is running on the server ? 06:45
bobyeah06:46
ograand *no* user can log in ? not even the one you created during install ? 06:46
ograi.e. the admin user 06:47
ogramezzapazza, on the *client* ?06:47
mezzapazzaogra yep06:47
ograhmm, why ? 06:47
bobogra, yup, i just get login incorrect06:47
ograbob, where do you get that ? there is no such message in ldm (the login manager we use in ltsp)06:48
mezzapazzaogra hmmm... i want to run linux in cyber cafe, and our users are accustomed to win06:48
mezzapazzainstalled kubuntu-desktop metapackage06:48
ogramezzapazza, no i mean why do you want to install it in the client ? 06:48
bobit says 'ltsp login', and i type the user and pass, and it just says 'Login incorrect'06:49
bobit says 'ltsp login' too?06:49
ograyou usually only use kernel and X on the client, the rest runs on the server 06:49
mezzapazzaogra ah... i didn't installed... just built it..06:49
ograbob, do you have a gui at all on the client ? 06:49
mezzapazzabut i can't make client run KDE06:49
bobnope06:50
mezzapazzaeven .xinitrc doesn't help :(06:50
ogramezzapazza, if you use the ubuntu ltsp implementation, all desktop tasks run on the server ...06:50
ogramezzapazza,  sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager06:51
ograwill give you the option to select the system default 06:51
ogra(which ldm will use then)06:51
ograbob, your thin client setup is broken ... you should have a gui login06:52
bobok06:52
bobany ideas?06:52
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bobcould it just be a shit video card?06:52
ograbob, wipe the chroot as i told you above and rebuild the ltsp-client ...06:52
ograsorry, i'm in a meeting in #ltsp now06:53
bobi did...06:53
bobhmm06:53
bobok06:53
bobthanks for your help btw...06:54
mezzapazzaThere is only 1 program which provides x-session-manager06:54
mezzapazza(/usr/bin/gnome-session). Nothing to configure.06:54
mezzapazzaalthough i have KDM installed06:54
ograhmm, are you sure you installed kubuntu-desktop on the server ?06:54
mezzapazzano, this is what i did:06:55
mezzapazzaltsp-build-client  --root /var/ltsp/amd64/  --dist breezy --mirror http://hr.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu --late-packages kubuntu-desktop 06:55
ograhmm, and your clients boot ?06:56
mezzapazzayes06:56
ogralate packages is reserved for the kernel package ...06:57
mezzapazzahmm06:57
mezzapazzait boots just fine untill i try to login in X06:57
bobogra, would i help if i rebuilt the client with --dist breezy as well?06:59
mezzapazzawell, installing kubuntu-desktop on the server now, will keep asking questions in a few hours07:00
mezzapazzatnx for help ogra!07:00
ograi'll be available after the meeting ...07:06
bobthats cool, no hurry :)07:07
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C-O-L-Thy there07:50
C-O-L-Tanybody there?07:50
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=== mhz_back4hrs is now known as mhz
mhzogra: ebuntu?09:27
ogramhz, yes :( very bad name choice09:28
ograbut what should we do about that ? 09:28
mhzkill'em all!09:31
ograheh+09:31
=== mhz loves e17
mhzwell, all 17 y.o. girls :D09:32
ograme hates e1709:32
juliux/me loves gnome09:32
=== juliux loves gnome
juliuxand since yesterday it is very fast here09:33
=== signifer123 loves gnome too
=== mhz loves e17 + wmaker + fluxbox
=== ogra loves WMs that stick to standards ...
ograe17 is clearly not among these09:36
ograas their devs declare09:36
mhzohhh09:36
ograthere are some statements from rasterman ... "we give a shit on freedesktop ... etc"09:37
mhzogra: last week I had the chance to read 'xfce developers' do not use freedesktop standards regarding icons naming09:37
mhzand did not want to09:37
mhzfortunately, Daniele Favara, aka nomed in dsslive project, convinced them to follow the standards09:38
ograbut they stick to most other standards from freedesktop ...09:38
ogradisagreement is fine ... but refusing collaboration as a whole and reinvent the wheel (even if its shiny) is bad09:38
mhzogra: oh, then I agree with you again! :(09:39
signifer123so is edubuntu switching to another desktop?10:00
ogranope10:00
signifer123:-p10:00
signifer123good...10:00
bobhey ogra, you have any thgouhts on why my clients arent booting? shall i rebuild the ltsp client again with some different options?10:09
mhzbob: not booting? or not logging in?10:12
ograbob, what hardware specs have these clients ? 10:13
ograi suspect you have to less mem to start an X server or a weird graphics card ...10:14
ogramhz, the x server doesnt start10:15
mhzogra: ok, so they boot, the server has X running BUt the clients ?10:17
ograyes, the clients only start in console mode  10:18
ograi guess they are not >64MB or have a graphics card we dont know about (i suspect the first)10:18
mhzyah, me too10:19
ogra(since i cant imagine a unsupported graphics card for our xorg server)10:19
mhzhehhe10:19
mhzunles it is from other planet10:19
mhzare the clients x86 or ppc?10:19
mhzor arm?10:20
ograno idea, but i suspect x8610:20
ograbob ?10:20
mhzmaybe he uses xfce and the mouse ate his tongue10:20
mhz;p10:21
ograthats a xfce feature ? 10:21
mhzlol10:21
=== ogra makes note not to use xfce :)
mhzogra: yes, silent mode10:21
mhzohhh, silent fingers10:22
bobwhoops., worry10:22
bobsorry10:22
bobi dont really know the hardware specs. what was the command again, lspci?10:23
ografree 10:23
bobpretty rubbish i reckon10:23
ograto get the amount of memory 10:23
ogracat /proc/cpuinfo10:23
bobk ill just boot it10:23
ograto get CPU stats10:23
ograyou need to set a root password in the chroot to be able to log in 10:24
ograsudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd10:24
bobk10:24
mhzoooh, chrooting10:24
ogrause root and this password to log in on the client10:25
ogra(note the first password thats requested is for sudo ... the second one is for the chroot)10:25
boboih hang on somehting odd is happening, gonan reboot.10:25
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bobhmm that passwd command just gives an error10:35
bobsudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd10:35
ograyes 10:35
ograit first asks for your user password ...10:35
ograthen offers you to set a root password in the chroot 10:35
bobyeah it just says no such command10:35
bob'canot run comamnd 'passwd': no such file or directory10:36
ogracan you give the exact errormessage ? 10:36
bobahh hang on, i might have tried to reinstall the client again earlier and it messed up, i thgouht it hadnt done anything, but...10:37
bobill rebuild again10:37
bobshall i use any parameters for the rebuild?10:37
ograhmm, be really carfull... if you broek it during build it might mees up the server10:39
ograyou dont need parameters ...10:39
bobok10:39
bobwhat was the command again?10:39
ograbut if /proc is mounted inside the chroot it will break your server ... if you cant unmount /proc there you cant fix it ...10:40
ograand if there is no shell in the chroot, you cant chroot to unmount /proc there ... its a chicken egg problem10:40
bobi think i tried to delete it when it was still kind of doing something, and there was still 2 files tied up10:40
ograouch10:41
bobproblem?10:41
bobyou think i just need a reinstall?10:41
ograthats likely a problem that i cant solve ...10:41
bobhmm10:41
bobanything thats wortha  try?10:41
ograif its meesed up anyway you will need to reinstall ... but in that case it wont break more if you try rebuilding the chroot :)10:42
ograsudo ltsp-build-client 10:42
ograno options 10:43
ograand wipe /opt/ltsp/i386 first10:43
bobk10:43
ogras/wipe/remove/10:43
bobahh its already going, i did rm -fr /opt/ltsp/i386 thoguh?10:43
bobit sounds like its probably the graphics card thats the issue though10:44
ograunlikely  ... i cant imagine a graphics card our xserver doesnt know ....10:45
ograi rather suspect the clients have less than 64MB ...10:45
bobram? ok10:46
ograyes, ram10:46
bobis that the minimum?10:46
ograyes 10:48
bobk10:49
bobitd be sueful to ahve all the absolute min specs on the wiki :)10:49
bobunless they already are 10:49
ograthey arent and i cant really tell them for breezy ...10:49
bobah ok10:50
ograi'll release them for dapper since there i did measuring ...10:50
bobcool :)10:50
ograbut dapper will for example support network swap, so the ram can be less ...10:50
ogra(thats the feature i'm currently working on)10:50
bobwow10:51
bobwhat is your general ubuntu type job then? :)10:51
ograhacking on ltsp, caring for the screensaver and maintaining edubuntu 10:51
bobcool10:51
bobok its done, shall i try that passwd thing again?10:52
ograadditionally with some standard ubuntu stuff like random bugfixing etc 10:52
ograits done ??10:52
bobah good stuff. how many people are there working on it?10:52
ograyou must have a fast connection then ....10:52
bob8meg on a good day...10:52
ograabout 10 full employed for the whole distro ...10:52
ograone is completely working on kubuntu as i am on edubuntu 10:53
ograso that leaves 8 for ubuntu :)10:53
bobhow do you get funding? can you aplpy for grants and stuff?10:53
ograi'm paied by canonical Ltd10:54
bobok the password has set ok...10:54
ograok, now find out how much ram you have ...10:54
ogrause the "free" command after login 10:54
bobah ok, cool, free software is amasing and the fact people can get paid to do it rules...10:55
bob123meg it says10:56
ograthats plenaty 10:56
ogra*plenty10:56
ogracat /proc/cpuinfo 10:57
ogralets see what kind of cpu you have 10:57
bobamd-k6 3d processor10:57
bob501mhz10:57
ograwow, thats a good thin client 10:58
ograok, now lspci and look for the VGA device10:58
bobits one of the better boxes10:58
bobati mach 6410:58
bobgx10:58
ograhmm ...10:59
ograthat should be detected 10:59
bobit comes up with the proper boot loader now and it didnt before10:59
ogragui ?10:59
bobnah10:59
ograless /etc/X11/xorg.conf and look for the Driver section 11:00
ograthere should be ati or radeon in it 11:00
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bobhmm theres a device section but no driver section?11:01
boband a section called DRI11:01
ograah, sorry 11:05
ograi meant Driver11:05
ograSection "Device"11:05
ogra        Identifier      "ATI Technologies, Inc. M11 NV [FireGL Mobility T2e] "11:05
ogra        Driver          "ati"11:05
ogra        BusID           "PCI:0:16:0"11:05
ogra        Option          "UseFBDev"              "true"11:05
ograEndSection11:05
ograsomething like that ...11:05
bobyup11:06
bobgot it11:06
ograwhat does it say ?11:06
ogra(the driver line)11:06
bobdriver, "ati", busid "pci:0:9:0" 11:07
ograsounds ok11:07
ograhmm ...11:07
ogratry running startx and see if there is an error 11:07
bobjust at the fatal server error: no screens found...11:08
bobwhoops11:08
bobignore the just at the11:08
ograhmm 11:08
bobyou want the rest?11:08
ogranope 11:08
ograthats evil enough :)11:08
bobsomething about an error unlocking an authority file too11:08
ograwhat kind of monitors do the clients have ? 11:09
bobumm11:09
bobquite old11:09
bobshall i try a differnt monitor?11:09
ograyup11:09
bobk11:09
ograi need to change from isdn to dsl, brb11:09
bobk11:11
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bobwow this is special11:17
bobi changed the moniutor11:17
bobran xserver, and it seemed to freeze up11:17
bobso i rebooted and now im geting 'kernel panic - not syncing'11:17
ogratry another boot ...11:18
ograthat looks like a network issue 11:18
bobk11:19
bobthere is a rogue dhcp server i cant turn off11:19
ograouch11:20
ograthats a problem 11:20
bobrubbish router control panel11:20
bobah gottit this time11:20
bobnormally the srever wins the dhcp race... wow geek olympics/11:20
bobhmm it keeps doing it, its well eird this has just started11:25
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ograits intresting that you could boot at all 11:27
ogranormally it breaks heavily with a second dhcp server11:27
bobyou think that is most likely my problem?11:28
ograwith booting, yes 11:28
bob(or one of the many)11:28
ogranot the one with the X server 11:28
bobits really not liking it al all now11:28
bobhmm11:28
bobis there any way i can set the clients to only accept dhcp off the server or anything?11:29
ogranope11:29
ograyou cant predict which dhcp server answers first ...11:29
ograand you can force it only with a highly complicated setup if you run one of them on a different port ...11:30
bobarg11:30
ograbut that would take the whole night to get running 11:30
bobhaha11:30
bobhmm11:30
bobwhat a pain11:30
bobok ill disconenct t'internet temporarly11:30
bobbrb11:30
bobsomething fishy is going on11:35
bobcrc error: ssytem halted?11:37
ograhuh ?11:37
bobon boot11:37
bobsomething really really odd is going on with this router11:37
bobarg, sorry about this11:38
bobits so weird its only just started being an issue11:38
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bobcrc error: system halted, this is probably still a network problem yes?11:39
ograno idea ... sounds rather like a BIOS problem 11:40
ograor like it tries to boot from a non existent HD 11:40
bobook ill have a poke11:41
bobwhod have thoguht changing a monitor could cause so much problem...11:41
mhzogra: ever used xmaxima ?11:41
ograwhats that ? 11:41
mhzit's a mix of math apps11:42
mhzoctave is one of them11:42
mhzbut the gui... sucks so badly that I don't even dare to inculde it as a default edu apps11:42
mhzI mean, the app is excellent, but its windows... too terrible11:43
bobahhh ok. i was plugging it into the main box for power, plugged the monitor in seperately and its fine. psu must be on its last legs11:43
ogramhz, what makes you think about including windows apps ? 11:45
mhzogra: I mean windows as in "the windows you use for your linux apps"11:46
mhzwith the x button at the corner11:46
ograheh11:46
mhzoh, you were kidding??!!11:46
mhzI see11:46
ogra:)11:46
mhzyour back is so much better11:46
mhzOR11:47
mhzyou have no mdz pressure11:47
mhzhehehe11:47
mhzOR11:47
mhzyour girlfriend is turning into a geek too11:48
mhz(that would be nice)11:48
ograin fact i'm spending the last 10 mins of my birthday, having a glass of merlot and syncing the live isos for testing 11:48
mhz(but usually means she is not that pretty) :D11:48
ograand my DSL is back ....11:49
mhzogra: ooh, Happy day of Birth!11:49
ograthanks :)11:49
bobits your birthday??11:49
bobhappy birthday!11:49
mhzto you ...11:49
ograthanks as well bob :)11:49
bobyou should probabyl get off the internet and do something in the real world :)11:49
ograit nearly *was* ...11:49
mhzogra: I can get you a nice bottle of wine if Mark lets you come here by the end of april11:50
mhzthers's lot of fine viriety to choose from here11:50
ogramhz, lets see ... its very tight with the ubuntu conference ... 11:50
mhznah11:50
ogranah ? 11:51
mhzJeff Waugh has already agreed to come, So has Daniele Favara11:51
mhzogra: not that tight11:51
mhzLA tour could easily take 10 days to do 4-5 countries11:51
ograreally ? jdub agreed ? 11:52
mhzplus... with a nice bottle of chilean wine you would definately feel more loose11:52
ogracool11:52
ograi'd *love* to come ...11:52
mhzjust come11:52
mhz:)11:52
ograheh11:53
ogralets see what mark says ... :)11:53
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mhzhe'llprobably say yeah, "I'll support from here"11:54
mhz:)11:54
ograits two weeks ago that i talked to him ... he didnt mention anything ... when did you mail him ? 11:54
mhzogra: but I can't even express how important it is for some LA countries the tour takes place. There's really lots of reasons11:55
bobright, im not gna bother you any more on your birthday :p have a good one ogra, thanks for your help (yet again...) :)11:55
mhzogra: I have emailed him at least 5 mails from 2 weeks ago until monday or tuesday11:55
ograbob my bday is over in 4 minutes ... dont worry 11:56
ograbah 11:56
mhzogra: and JaneW has been CC'ed every email I sent to Mark11:57
ogramhz, i'll talk to him once he's back 11:57
mhzplease11:57
=== mhz is now known as mhz_cook
mhz_cookogra: thx11:59
ogra:)11:59
mhz_cookogra: and about higher end-users (university opnes or science highschool), xmaxima is the fines reference in linux12:03
mhz_cookit is just its front end or gui that looks crappy for 2006 users12:04
mhz_cookvery much like default emacs12:04
mhz_cookmaybe worst12:04
ograshudder12:04
mhz_cookshudder?12:04

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