=== jsgotangco [n=jsg@210.4.38.43] has joined #edubuntu === mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #edubuntu === sm|zzz is now known as sankarshan === lucasvo [n=lucasvo@www.wservices.ch] has joined #edubuntu === neurogeek [n=neurogee@201.211.160.18] has joined #edubuntu === pitux [n=pitux@178-56-112.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #edubuntu [03:08] jsgotangco: ping [03:09] hi [03:10] available? [03:10] jsgotangco: ? [03:11] sure [03:11] what's up [03:11] jsgotangco: could we meet? [03:12] aren't we doing it now? [03:12] jheh [03:13] jsgotangco: so, far I have no experience on writing guides nor books. However, I do feel there are certain points to set: Audience, Deepness, Average look, Format, etc [03:13] did you see the wiki page? [03:13] at my lunch time, 13 hours ago [03:13] i don't want to delve on setting up the whole server [03:14] The Edubuntu 6.04 Quick Guide [03:14] * [03:14] ?/IntroductionToEdubuntu [03:14] * [03:14] ?/GettingStartedWithTheEdubuntuDesktop [03:14] * [03:14] ?/TheEdubuntuApplications [03:14] * [03:14] ?/BeyondEdubuntuBasics [03:15] i just want the basic desktop apps shown [03:15] that is unique to edubuntu [03:15] jsgotangco: My guess is that chapters 3 and 4 will take longer [03:15] because an ubuntu manual alrady addresses those [03:15] jsgotangco: agree [03:15] 4 is just a table pointing to more complex tasks [03:16] this thing shouldnt even go beyond 5 sections [03:16] JaneW: 3, how deep do you picture it? [03:16] sorry [03:16] jsgotangco: :) [03:17] intro is the usual intro [03:17] jsgotangco: and 4, do you want to talk about each application or just table them ? [03:17] and marketing stuff [03:18] mhz, the edubuntu desktop apps is less than 15 [03:18] and those apps have their own manuals [03:18] jsgotangco: it depends.. Gcompris itself is about 40 apps [03:19] i'm not planning to show everything on gcompris [03:19] jsgotangco: so you are happy with just a description of each app? [03:20] pretty much [03:20] unless you have something better [03:20] 1) Need Math -> 2) Go here [03:20] 1) Need English -> 2) Go here [03:21] jsgotangco: did you see what i listed here? https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSoftwareList [03:21] jsgotangco: oh, I see, so you picture it divided in areas [03:21] thematic areas [03:22] or subject areas [03:22] yes [03:22] but i'm not a teacher, so that [03:22] that's just a guess [03:22] hmmmm [03:22] this is nice [03:22] what if we have them 'crossed' [03:22] we can move this [03:23] #4 Could be: Need Math -> Go here... [03:23] Need Junior -> Go there [03:23] i wish i had a working edubuntu now [03:23] jsgotangco: so maybe we can easily list all apps by 'categories' [03:24] by 'ages' [03:24] and by 'subjects/areas' [03:25] we use EdubuntuSoftwareList as a base DB [03:25] im not that familiar with the age groups for the apps [03:25] the wiki page can be massaged then moved to the distro [03:25] yup [03:26] hmm [03:26] who wrote this? [03:26] and if we included screenshots, a user may click on an application name, get to a mini wiki page with the shot and short description [03:27] hmm [03:27] 18th versions, 17 writen by me [03:27] would it be possible in our short time frame to make a wiki version for each app? [03:27] sure [03:27] piece of cake [03:27] i'll proabably install 5.10 first in a machine [03:27] then just grab screenshots [03:28] just the desktop specific apps [03:28] is that good? [03:28] good [03:29] jsgotangco: so, let's write a mini roadmap? [03:29] yes [03:29] write = agree [03:29] can you create a draft in the wiki? [03:29] i [03:29] sure [03:29] i'm currently doing something with a firewall [03:29] what i'll do first is fix up my machine for 5.10 [03:29] go ahead, let me get a coffe and get my hands on it [03:29] jsgotangco: heheh === dsaa [n=dsaa@210.1.81.82] has joined #edubuntu [04:19] jsgotangco: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuQuickguide/RoadMap === mhz is now known as mhz_tired [04:21] looks good to me [04:21] i can finish up the screenshots [04:21] from 5.10 [04:21] hopefully not much have changed [04:21] jsgotangco: I have like 10 or more screenshots [04:22] about Gcompris and some other junior apps [04:22] tha's ok i can do some more again [04:22] and just compare when we're done [04:22] cool [04:22] hopefull, we'll have enough space on the CD [04:22] heh [04:22] hehehe [04:23] jsgotangco: any chances a user can be directed from Yelp to Firefox? [04:23] then go to the internet? [04:23] or any chances we set that 'help button' to open a firefox tab [04:23] ? [04:23] nope, localhost [04:23] direct from Yelp to firefox? [04:24] hmm [04:24] nope, localhost/EdubuntuQuickGuide [04:24] yelp renders html [04:24] a like to file will open up in yelp i think [04:24] jsgotangco: I am imagining, localhost = Welcome to Edubuntu! [04:24] but a link to http will open up the default browser [04:25] like DSL does it [04:25] you run DSL and get presented with a browser with all the info you need [04:25] to start up === P3L|C4N0 [n=gcamposm@200.37.110.17] has joined #edubuntu === TOZTWO [i=TOZTWO@dialup-4.226.135.201.Dial1.Dallas1.Level3.net] has joined #edubuntu === sniff [n=sniff@60.17.197.58] has joined #edubuntu === C-O-L-T [n=hunika@193.231.163.10] has joined #edubuntu === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #edubuntu === jane_ [n=JaneW@dsl-146-136-159.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #edubuntu === arkan0x [n=arkan0x@pc-71-87-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #edubuntu === sankar [n=sankarsh@202.149.56.110] has joined #edubuntu === sankar is now known as sankarshan === pips1 [n=philipp@243.50.3.213.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #edubuntu === ulinskie [n=yolynne@202.57.88.34] has joined #edubuntu === ealden [n=ealden@203.76.211.35] has joined #edubuntu === MotherLUG [n=karin@29.124.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #edubuntu === guim [n=glederer@104.241-200-80.adsl-fix.skynet.be] has joined #edubuntu === ribbo [n=riaan@196.36.161.235] has joined #edubuntu [09:50] hi ribbo [09:53] hi highvoltage [09:53] so, much action here? [10:01] :D [10:08] ribbo: sometimes, yes. === spacey [n=herman@ipd50a233d.speed.planet.nl] has joined #edubuntu === TOZTWO [i=TOZTWO@dialup-4.226.135.40.Dial1.Dallas1.Level3.net] has joined #edubuntu === signifer123 [n=michael@pool-141-157-88-80.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #edubuntu [10:36] highvoltage, hi! [10:37] hi pips1 [10:37] long time no see [10:37] how is it going! yes! [10:37] very busy down here, a lot of things going on, good and bad! [10:37] I was very busy with my day job since december... [10:38] I piled up a lot of overtime and now I get to compensate :-) [10:38] :) [10:38] Did you get the mail re edubuntu website from JaneW ? [10:39] yes, i have [10:39] mhz, hno73, etc. will work to make the moin part better [10:39] Well, I wanted to really get going with the website ... :-) [10:39] so that we'll eventually be able to do everything we wanted with drupal, but with moin (hopefully) [10:40] ah [10:40] i'm not quite sure how that will work yet, i'm a bit behind on that myseld [10:40] i noticed that hno73 revamped the ubuntu site to use moin now :-) [10:40] s/myseld/myself [10:41] yep, the plone site broke into a "million tiny pieces" and they couldn't get it back up again :) [10:41] moin/wikis are great for community contributions [10:42] yep [10:42] still, I thought that there will be the need for an "official" site with it's own set of needs [10:42] hm [10:42] seems not, hey :/ [10:42] how much of your original plans will be applicable to the moin site? [10:43] can it be adjusted, and can we implement the most part of it and then find ways for the rest? [10:43] or does it depend heavily on drupals taxonimy? [10:43] well, I the meeting yesterday, I proposed to have a go at a drupal site (for the "official" stuff) [10:43] JaneW proposed that we meet on monday and decide how to go forward exactly [10:44] I intend to demo the drupal test site I'm currently building... [10:44] not a bad idea, i considered this too [10:44] then we'll vote if we need/use drupal or go moin completely... [10:45] so far, i think you'll have 3 votes for drupal [10:45] perhaps if that demo site is up, it will jump up quite drastically [10:45] well, we'll see ;-) [10:45] :) [10:45] gtg, talk again l8r [10:45] ok, if you get a spare minute, get in touch with me :-) [10:50] i have a laptop here I'm about to install something on, but after that's done, does anyone think i should install edubuntu to test how it goes? i know ubuntu Breezy runs perfectly, so i asume edu will work just as well === dsaa [n=dsaa@210.213.76.158] has joined #edubuntu [10:57] Kamping_Kaiser, if you install on a laptop you might want to do the "workstation" install [10:57] pips1: ok thanks. *checks the wiki to see what the difference is* [10:59] If you want to test the current (unstable) Dapper version, please report your findings in the wiki here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu if you can :-) [11:00] my iso is Breezy (my ISP don't mirror Ubuntu's unstalbe isos) [11:01] btw, I am running unstable "flight3" on a test pc (amd64) and it's fine just now [11:01] oh, I see [11:01] pips1: i have a desktop pc that someone installed edubuntu on (i have it because of flppy issues) [11:01] *floppy [11:01] I'm just wondering how a lappy would handle it [11:01] ok [11:02] depends on your model, I guess === sniff [n=sniff@60.17.192.122] has joined #edubuntu [11:03] on my ibm thinkpad it runs rather well :-) [11:05] :) this is a compac armada [11:12] maybe somebody already tested your model, have a look https://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/LaptopTestingTeam [11:12] I'm installing for interest sake, but thanks for the url [11:13] sure :-) [11:13] :) [11:14] well, you might want to report your findings (hint hint) ;-) === ogra_ibook [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #edubuntu [11:16] [11:16] maybe :) I'm just giving livelamp the evil eye. when I'm finished doing that I'll try EdU === vegard_ [n=Vego@40.80-203-66.nextgentel.com] has joined #edubuntu === sniff [n=sniff@60.17.193.224] has joined #edubuntu [11:35] http://tangram.dnsalias.net:8008/gallery/LCA06-0129/p1280213 rofl [11:53] JaneW, for your pleasance: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-February/006434.html [11:53] birthday gift for ogra : http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/about-edubuntu/C/index.html [11:53] it now builds [11:54] ogra: YAY [11:54] jsgotangco, we should probably drop the moodle stuff ... [11:54] we wont ship it ... [11:54] jsgotangco: nice :) [11:55] or rewrite it to: edubuntu recommends moodle for class management ... [11:56] dinner === Kamping_Kaiser thinks it needs to be eaiser to find out what a "server" "workstation" and "default" instlal of EdU does :/ wonder if theres any on doc.ubuntu.... [12:03] workstation installs edubuntu-desktop on top of a normal ubuntu system ... [12:03] server should be renamed to "minimal" [12:03] so server is same as a normal ubuntu cd? (i agree about minimal) [12:03] and default installs (and configures) edubuntu-server and edubuntu-desktop [12:03] yes [12:03] ok. === spacey [n=herman@ipd50a233d.speed.planet.nl] has joined #edubuntu [12:04] *does workstation install* === C-O-L-T [n=hunika@193.231.163.10] has joined #edubuntu === JaneW [n=JaneW@dsl-146-136-159.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #edubuntu === dsaa [n=dsaa@210.213.76.194] has joined #edubuntu === ribbo [n=riaan@196.36.161.235] has joined #edubuntu === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #edubuntu [01:59] what's the user password in the vmware virtual machine of ubuntu(cdimages.ubuntu.com/vmware) [01:59] ubuntu === mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #edubuntu [02:03] hm. Edu workstation is going nice on this laptop :O only problem so far is the modem, but I'll check that out later. :) [02:03] hmm [02:03] i havent tested the daily build [02:03] x86 looks sane [02:04] Kamping_Kaiser, dapper ? [02:04] i still want to sulk over gnome-xchat though [02:04] ogra: no, Breezy [02:04] heh [02:04] jsgotangco, i wont use it ... [02:04] i cant download dapper on my connection :\ [02:04] ogra: i agree [02:04] lol jsgotangco === jsgotangco wonders the rationale of this [02:04] me neither today :( [02:05] probably integrated or something [02:05] DSL broke ... i'm on ISDN ... 64k isnt really for syncing isos ... [02:05] im using it now but this is worse than using gaim for irc [02:05] wow === jsgotangco using a daily build [02:05] that's bad === Kamping_Kaiser is trying to use synaptic to add repos+dist-upgrade... it takes for ever!! === Kamping_Kaiser struggles not to open a term [02:07] ogra: but ISDN is pretty expensive over there right? [02:07] yup [02:07] but hey ... i had to upload a new ltsp today and need to attend two meetings .. [02:08] yeah [02:08] err kubuntu meeting? [02:08] :D [02:09] lol, nope [02:09] development status meeting ... and a ltsp meeting adterwards [02:10] *afterwards [02:10] hmm === jsgotangco doesn't see an ltsp meeting [02:10] ahhh [02:10] must be sudden [02:12] debian/ubuntu ltsp teams meet in #ltsp 18:00 UTC ... [02:12] its not a ubuntu meeting ... was initiated from the debian group [02:12] heh this sucks i live in a timezone where all the action is happening at dawn [02:12] ogra: that's nice...your work is paying off [02:12] lets see :) [02:13] they're not happy with some decisions and implementations ... its debian ... [02:13] do you know why xchat-gnome has become default? [02:13] ogra: why so? we're using muecow... [02:13] they want no autoconfiguration but do everything manually ... [02:13] that's supposed to be ltsp-ng [02:13] they use our package since quite some time ... [02:15] hmmm [02:16] does mdz also maintain ltsp in debian? [02:16] mdz doesnt maintin ltsp anymore [02:16] thats my job [02:17] oh! [02:17] he just looks over the code from time to time and complains if i did something wrong ... [02:18] but http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/dapper/ is the upstream archive for muecow in debian/ubuntu currently ... === pitux [n=pitux@247-240-90.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #edubuntu === Rondom [n=Rondom@mrbg-d9b953e5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #edubuntu === vmarks [n=vmarks@adsl-065-015-231-005.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #edubuntu === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #edubuntu === Kamping_Kaiser [n=Kaiser@ppp134-160.lns2.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #edubuntu [04:05] ogra: schools need bling! schools need compiz! [04:05] hehe [04:05] pfft [04:06] I'm SO annoyed by all the xgl stuff ... [04:06] spams lists and channels for no good reason ... and wont be ready within the next 10 months ... [04:07] xgl will be great if done though ... but it sidetracks everybody from getting dapper ready ... [04:07] right but let me enjoy this till next week since i'll be speaking in a trade show hehehe [04:07] :) === vmarks [n=vmarks@adsl-065-015-231-005.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #edubuntu [04:08] at the moment, its really just wow factor [04:08] nothing useful [04:08] it will hopefully replace xorg soon ... its far better by design ... but its not even dapper+1 stuff imho... [04:09] I remember when xorg was the best thing going. === ribbo [n=riaan@196.36.161.235] has left #edubuntu [] [04:10] vmarks, doing all drawing by GL will give you a lot benefit even onn old hardware ... [04:11] oh yes. [04:11] that's for certain. [04:11] I was just reminiscing. [04:11] ogra: problem is people wont put effort into old hardware - and theats where it's needed [04:11] *that's [04:12] Kamping_Kaiser, they will ... i'll scream and shout if edubuntu cant support old hardware ;) [04:12] :D [04:13] good. *knows what thin clients on old hardware are like* [04:17] I find myself using old linux distributions or lighter weight window managers on old hardware. [04:17] not really necessary if you use ltsp ... [04:18] although edubuntu seems to do remarkably well. [04:18] 300Mhz and &$MB are fine for thin clients [04:18] err [04:18] 64MB [04:18] well, yes. but ltsp isn't perfect: I'm still hurting on the non-pxe booting. [04:18] and 300mhz is a fast machine comparatively. [04:18] i'll write a howto soon [04:18] 300Mhz is PII class ... [04:19] yes it is. [04:19] thats already quite old :) [04:19] some of us have p166 and 200mmx still. [04:19] :D [04:19] 6 years ? [04:19] 200mmx should be fine as well if you have the right amount of ram. ... [04:20] itshares boxes are only 200mhz+96mb RAM (or was 12 months ago, it's about a 300/400 average now) [04:20] so there's lots of 200s about === TOZII [i=TOZTWO@dialup-4.226.135.130.Dial1.Dallas1.Level3.net] has joined #edubuntu === mhz is now known as mhz_back4hrs === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #edubuntu [05:23] ogra: hi [05:23] ogra: any ideal specs for NIC's for the Edubuntu server? [05:23] speed? brand? [05:23] PXE capable NICS are helpful ... [05:24] 100Mbit as well [05:24] oh, the server ... [05:25] ive used a gigiabit NIC [05:25] not really ... i know people that say you should take 3com in any case, but to be honest i never saw regressions with other brands ... [05:25] then connected to a gigabit switch === bob [n=bob@host-87-75-129-152.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #edubuntu [05:25] but a 100Mbit should actually work fine [05:25] yeah, if you have a gbit switch its fine to use a gbit card [05:26] you can also use the cards who have 4 ports [05:26] and than connect every client directly to the server [05:26] that gets quite tricky ... [05:26] ah, yes [05:27] i thought you wanted to trunk the lineks together [05:27] so, bottom line ? :D [05:27] *lines [05:27] ogra, no [05:27] mhz_back4hrs: 100Mbit should work fine [05:27] but 1GBit is recommended [05:27] jsgotangco: ideal specs? [05:27] okis [05:27] you should be generous to your server as much as possible [05:28] processor? from 1.7 GB (AMD) ? [05:28] ogra, the pci bus has more than 400MBit bandwidth, and so every client has 100MBit, but you can only connect 4 clients [05:28] 100Mbit no specific brand at least ... ideally gbit for client and server and a T3 line to the internet ;P [05:28] ogra, only T3 ? [05:28] heh [05:28] ived used 64bit with good results === juliux has here 100MBit internet connection [05:29] nah, a direct Gbit uplink to the provider will do as well, juliux [05:29] ogra, the uni has only 622Mbit [05:29] pfft ... lamers [05:29] ogra, but with a flatrate [05:29] heh, funny [05:30] ogra, cost 1,5million + tax [05:30] peanuts ... [05:31] ogra, now you know why we have de.archives.ubuntu.com and ftp.de.debian.org here [05:31] mhz_back4hrs, so just go with juliux recommendation and you wont run into problems :) [05:31] hehe [05:31] juliux rox! [05:32] yes, he always has the cheap and easy solution for you :) [05:32] hehe [05:33] but at home i also have only a normal dsl connection [05:33] oh, you get dsl in dresden ? [05:33] i thought that wasnt possible ... [05:33] no in hamburg [05:33] oh [05:33] you moved ? [05:33] no there are my parents [05:34] ah [05:34] and that is for me home [05:34] not dresden [05:34] and in some parts of dresden you can get dsl [05:34] but it is like a gamble [05:35] yup, thats what i heard [05:35] but you can get internet over wlan [05:35] but it is very slow [05:35] as for most parts of eastern germany ... where telekom was clever enough to replace all copper lines with fiber [05:35] yes but you can also do dsl over fiber [05:36] they should offer you direct fiber access :) [05:36] but the telekom dont want to do this [05:36] hansenet do it over fiber in hamburg [05:37] its more expensive ... you need two more modulators ... [05:37] that could be but you get a normal kabel into your flat [05:38] so you can use normal dsl hardware [05:38] sure, but the provider has more costs ... [05:38] yes but his own cables and not the cables from the telekom [05:38] so you get more bandwidth === mhz_back4hrs runs === juliux_ [n=juliux@141.30.211.85] has joined #edubuntu === P3L|C4N0 [n=gcamposm@200.37.110.17] has joined #edubuntu [06:07] could someone send me a working sources file for dapper? the updates are being well sketchy for me [06:08] how did you upgrade ? [06:09] note that there is currently no clean way to upgrade the chroot, you need to rebuild it ... [06:11] also dont use dapper in a production environment, its far from being stable ... [06:17] hmm ok [06:17] i just replaces all the breezys for dappers [06:17] *replaced [06:17] thats fine for the server ... [06:18] hmm [06:18] after that run sudo apt-get update [06:18] yeah [06:18] to make the system aware of the change [06:18] its just full of missing stuff [06:18] sure, as i said its pretty broken based on a daily base ... [06:19] haha ok [06:19] how can i rebuild the chroot? i really cant work out whats going wrong any more [06:19] its in steady development :) [06:19] sudo rm -f /opt/ltsp/i386 [06:20] sudo ltsp-build-client [06:20] ta! [06:20] whats the -f flag for? [06:20] force [06:20] ta [06:20] else it wont delete directorys [06:21] hmm doesnt work, shall i bung an R in too? [06:22] whats the error ? [06:22] 'is a directory' [06:23] oh, yes -rf is better then :) [06:23] sorry [06:23] :) [06:23] so the sources file is right with all the breezys made dapper, right? [06:24] yup [06:25] cool [06:28] i can deal with dodgyness as long sa i know its meant to be dodgy... [06:28] ok ... [06:29] but this doggyness can also mean your network interfaces dont work and change names on every boot for example ... (a current problem ) [06:29] ahhh [06:31] well not had much luck with brezy so i figured it was worth a shot :p [06:36] hang on [06:36] do i have to create seperate logins for clients? [06:37] you cant use the same user on all clients ... (you can, but themes break for example, dapper has a fix for that, but its not commited yet) [06:38] hmm [06:38] wlel [06:38] it just booted ok, but its still not liking logins [06:40] you rebuilt the chroot ? [06:40]