[12:04] free fonts: it's always either ugly or hard on eyes or not supporting central europe charset or some other problems [12:04] allee: i think it's legal here to use them for personal-use only === Czessi_ [n=Czessi@dslb-084-059-004-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #kubuntu-devel ["Kopete] === Czessi_ [n=Czessi@dslb-084-059-004-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:12] what'd you think about http://lorien.mornfall.net:8012/m/installer-draft.png as a general layout of the installer? [12:16] mornfall: how does that relate to http://lorien.mornfall.net:8012/m/installer-wordwrap.png ? === Czessi_ [n=Czessi@dslb-084-059-004-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #kubuntu-devel ["Kopete] === freeflying [n=zhengpen@60.163.187.134] has left #kubuntu-devel [] [12:26] robotgeek: I converted it to non-xincludes === mdz [n=mdz@studiocity-motorola-bsr1-70-36-194-85.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:29] Riddell: I've just updated kdebase-bin [12:29] Riddell: and I'm surprised to see my patch is not in :( [12:29] Riddell: why is so? [12:29] raphink: which patch? [12:29] the patch for kxkb [12:29] that I released to fix the keyboard layouts list [12:30] in kde 3.5.1 [12:30] :s [12:30] that you approved and tested as far as I remember [12:30] hmm, good question [12:32] Riddell: this one : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdelibs/+bug/31274 [12:32] hmm no sorry [12:32] this is not it [12:32] hehe [12:32] Riddell: the package selector will go into the empty frame in the picture [12:32] Riddell: the details pane will be on the right of the frame [12:34] Riddell: this is it : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/31165 [12:34] and this is the patch : http://librarian.launchpad.net/1566076/kdebase.debdiff [12:35] Riddell: and I remember you told me you wanted to modify it in order to add the /etc path instead of just replacing it [12:36] whee === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:36] the per-window opacity setting thing is actually useful [12:37] morning all [12:37] raphink: looks like I just never uploaded it, how daft of me [12:37] uploading now [12:37] (and compositing makes konsole switching screen windows smoother :) [12:37] Riddell: thanks [12:38] mornfall: I get quite a lot of crashes with newly released update-notifier [12:38] and there are some stuff I don't understand [12:38] mornfall: layout looks fine, but might be better to tell once it's put together [12:38] Riddell: okey, i'll try doing that :-) [12:38] raphink: notifier? or the updater? [12:39] i haven't seen the notifier crash once [12:39] mornfall: since update-notifier seems to fetch the available packages as a daemon, does it need to fetch the sources again when launched? Couldn't it do like the gnome one? [12:39] mornfall: I mean when I launch the updater from the notifier, to make it clearer [12:39] ;) [12:39] indeed, notifier itself doesn't crash [12:39] but updater does, a lot [12:39] Riddell: so are you releasing this patch under #49 ? [12:40] raphink: maybe-fixed in svn [12:40] raphink: yes [12:40] mornfall: ok [12:40] will make a release sunday night [12:40] mornfall: how about the fetch updates feature ? [12:41] mornfall: is it planned to get rid of this step when launching updater from notifier? [12:41] raphink: that's done by a cronjob in breezy [12:41] raphink: ah [12:41] raphink: well, it should be pretty quick if there's nothing new -- and if there is, you probably want it? [12:41] mornfall: no my question is whether it's necessary to fetch updates manually when clicking on the notifier [12:42] mornfall: I, as many people, have about 30 sources in my sources.list [12:42] and it seems to me that notifier fetches the updates quite often [12:42] please dont tell me that someone messed with the knotifications in the default settings... [12:42] from what I can see [12:42] notifier? it does not fetch anything at all [12:42] since as soon as I installed updates, it knew about it [12:42] mornfall: what does fetch then? [12:42] the cronjob [12:42] ok [12:42] and the notifier is sort of smarty :) [12:42] it watches your cache so if you run apt-get update it notices [12:42] and updates its info [12:43] so there's a cronjob launching apt-get update as root every ... minutes [12:43] 24*60 minutes :-) [12:43] yet the notifier in gnome doesn't fetch updates before committing them [12:43] Riddell: which reminds me, can you check what's the default situation with the apt cronjob planned for dapper? [12:44] just sharing my point, take it or not : mac os updater and the gnome updater for ubuntu do not fetch updates manually when launched [12:44] raphink: as i said -- it could be disabled, but i don't see much point in it === Huahua [n=hua@222.50.182.168] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:44] and, the main target being the stable (frozen) distro guys, there are hardly any updates once every 10 minutes in the frozen distro [12:45] so the point in fetching the updates right when the notifier detects new ones I don't see either [12:45] raphink: if there were updates since last apt-get update, it'll fetch them -- good, or if not, there'll be a bunch of HIT responses -- which is fairly quick [12:45] in a frozen distro that is === Huahua is now known as restword [12:45] what 10 minutes [12:45] it checks once a day [12:45] well I'll try and make my point clearer [12:45] how many times do i need to say that? :-) [12:45] I'm pretty certain the default it to update once a day [12:46] s/it/is/ [12:46] in breezy, do you have more updates than once a day? [12:46] Riddell: so the auto-update will be on for dapper, right? [12:46] I think you have updates once every one or two weeks or so [12:46] raphink: i have updates every few hours (debian sid here) :-) [12:47] raphink: some people seem to not have it set at all [12:47] raphink: how much does it hurt? [12:47] yes mornfall, same here on dapper of course [12:47] mornfall: assume yes, I'll check for certain tomorrow [12:47] mornfall: my point is end users though [12:47] raphink: again, how much does it hurt [12:47] raphink: real end users don't have 30 lines in sources.list [12:47] who want to click on the least number of buttons as possible and get the least number of infos to understand, most of the time [12:47] sadly [12:48] mornfall: huhu [12:48] mornfall: go to the forums and see how many newbies crowd their sources.list with crap [12:48] thanks to unofficial tips === allee looks at new wlassistant release [12:48] raphink: that contradicts your statement about doing smallest number of clicks ;-) === restword is now known as kiweee [12:48] mornfall: you don't have to agree of course, I was just giving my opinion :) [12:49] anyhow, i can think about it and i'd say you should file a wishlist on b.k.o or edit wiki.ubuntu.org/KubuntuDapperPackageManager or i forget (take that as a promise) [12:49] mornfall: how so? [12:49] I shall think about it first [12:49] and ask newbies around [12:49] (like my mom, very good newbie tester) [12:50] good, that'll be more productive than arguing here [12:50] sure :) [12:50] arguing about end user features between devs is pointless ;) [12:50] huhu === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:53] this is weird, i've lost my sound, and my notifications from knotify [12:53] do you miss it? [12:53] :-) [12:53] yes! [12:53] sarah@sarah:~$ artsd [12:53] unix_connect: can't connect to server (unix:/tmp/ksocket-sarah/localhost.localdomain-2919-43f3bd92) [12:53] Segmentation fault [12:53] is what i get [12:54] because then people talk to me and it doenst beep! [12:54] oh beepy beepy [12:54] Riddell: what is the status of knemo for integration in main? [12:55] yeah, and flashy flashy... [12:55] raphink: waiting on tonio to send me a default config file that makes it not need loads of manual setup [12:55] good morning, Riddell [12:56] Riddell: is there any chance to have it in on time ? [12:56] Riddell: this is really a nice feature :) I've used it ever since he told me about it :) [12:56] raphink: agreed!! [12:56] allee: :) === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel [01:03] woo! sound was fixed with a reboot :) Hobbsee will not go insane after all [01:05] having to reboot almost sounds like a reason to go insane [01:06] yeah, inserted a DVD -> hard freeze. Power off/on. I had a hard time to recover from sudden insanity today [01:07] hehe, in contrast, xorg hard-freezes (need to ssh from other box) here when restoring a konqueror session [01:08] hehe [01:08] doesnt sound like dapper's too stable today :P [01:09] mornfall: yes, a still working ssh is a pleasure, I couldn't enjoy today === jsgotangco [n=jsg@210.4.38.43] has joined #kubuntu-devel [01:11] is it possible that i'm hungry? [01:11] order a pizza for me too === mornfall swears at emacs-snapshot's broken mode-hooks [01:18] hello kiweee [01:18] raphink: what do you use it for? [01:19] Riddell: what? [01:19] knemo [01:20] to monitor my interfaces [01:20] :) [01:20] raphink: well if you can work out a way to get it to not require loads of user setup by default then we'll use it === Riddell beds [01:21] Riddell: some laptops here have even customized knemo RMB menues to start stop well known wlan AP interfaces [01:21] gn Riddell [01:21] i should do the same === mornfall builds the combined installer [01:22] Riddell: I thought tonio found a way to preconfigure it? [01:25] night Riddell [01:27] Hobbsee: are you by accident a big soccer fan? [01:27] allee: no, not in particular, why? [01:28] 'your' team still life for some time in summer 200 m from my house :) [01:29] oh? [01:29] my team hey...so i have a soccer team, and dont even know it...cool [01:30] ha-hum [01:31] your as your country :) [01:31] oh, right [01:31] oops...it's still before noon here - i'm not supposed to be awake! [01:31] http://lorien.mornfall.net:8012/m/installer-draft1.png === Hobbsee goes and hides in a corner [01:32] he, he, he I didn't know that they have a soccer team either *duck* [01:32] Hobbsee: before noon? then no need to hide. that's normal at this times! [01:33] hehe [01:35] mornfall: is the 'nochanges quit' area a button? _If_ yes I would prefer just a normal [ no changes quit ] sized one === allee hides in advance [01:35] bah again :p [01:36] i even wanted it to do that, but it needs some coding to be done [01:36] so later [01:36] :) [01:36] i'll also do something generic, that is useful for updater too [01:37] because people keep complaining [01:37] they don't understand the simplicity of a QVBox :p [01:37] Riddell: Tonio says he sent you knemorc already (although the rest of the kubuntu-default-settings package is not right) [01:38] ignorants :) [01:38] raphink: [01:21] * Riddell beds [01:38] Riddell: he says he's working on kubuntu-default-settings again as he told you, but knemorc is ready as such [01:38] allee: a linux dev never really debs :p [01:38] lol [01:39] :) === LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [01:39] or goes and gets their car serviced - just dont let me forget hehe! [01:45] debs? [01:46] let's see how gnome-app-install improved [01:46] fsck [01:46] so it still crashes on startup [01:46] and upgrading it obliterated my fix :| [01:56] haha, gnome-app-install uses the split-categories layout too [01:56] when did that change? [01:59] bah, it was before me [02:09] Riddell: sorry, was away from terminal. Thanks! [02:29] old news [02:29] http://www.linux-magazine.com/CustomerService/Exclusive/2005_Linux_New_Media_Awards.html [02:29] Best Debian Derivative [02:29] 1. Ubuntu 43.5 % [02:29] 2. Knoppix 23.7 % [02:29] 3. Kubuntu 9.6 % [02:30] :D :D === mdz [n=mdz@studiocity-motorola-bsr1-70-36-194-85.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-34-184.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel === KaiL_ [n=KaiL@p548F799B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Hobbsee_ [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel === seth [n=seth@ubuntu/member/seth] has joined #kubuntu-devel === kiweee is now known as Huahua [06:13] Riddell, I hug you for giving us Amarok 1.4b1 packages === seth hugs [06:28] hehe === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #kubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel === ubijtsa [n=anders@213.208.70.155] has joined #kubuntu-devel [10:12] did someone have a new kopete here somewhere? [10:13] ubijtsa: breezy or dapper? [10:14] ubijtsa: 'deb http://andre.duffeck.de/kopete/dapper /' for dapper, 'deb http://andre.duffeck.de/kopete/breezy /' for breezy [10:14] ok - gimme a mo and I'll give it a twirl :) (dapper) [10:14] yeah, mooooore testers :) [10:15] Riddell: first step to including klik in Ubuntu : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1821 [10:15] Riddell: if you feel like reviewing it [10:16] was there any other KDE bits for testing, like amarok ? [10:18] Riddell: and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1822 too :) [10:27] no apt entry for amarok testing then? [10:33] Riddell, you use casper to build the kubuntu live cd ? === Tonio_ [n=tonio@cac94-5-82-229-219-55.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [10:37] hello [10:45] morning [10:56] hi Tonio_ [10:56] ubijtsa: see kubuntu site for those URL's [10:58] Hobbsee|away: thanks :) === JRe [n=JRe@pai34-2-82-226-199-36.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [11:09] raphink: fuseios depends on fuse-module and fusecramfs does not. and aptitude install fuse-module finds nothing [11:10] allee: fuse-module is provided by linux-image-2.6.15-* [11:11] raphink: also that it's used for clik can be removed from long desrciption IMHO. Better add a sentense what fuse is all about [11:11] allee: thanks for fusecramfs though, I'll correct [11:11] hmm [11:11] yes [11:11] right, kopete and amarok being run (and tested) now. [11:11] raphink: ok, strange I tought aptitude would list it, but because it installed it does obviously not [11:15] allee: [11:15] Description: FUSE module to mount cramfs image files [11:15] This package provides a module to mount cramfs filesystem images using FUSE [11:15] (Filesystem in Userspace). See http://fuse.sourceforge.net for more infos on [11:15] the FUSE project. [11:15] is that a better description for you? [11:15] :) [11:16] allee: uploading codeine if my access is okay [11:16] raphink: both manpages refer to 'FUSE libary options' but no description what they are or no SEE ALSO section to other fuse related manpages [11:16] allee: I don't know what these options are, upstream doesn't provide them :( [11:16] raphink: :) [11:17] allee: I'll poke upstream about providing a nicer --help message [11:17] so I can complete the manpages [11:17] viviersf: the live CD magic happens on a machine I don't have access to [11:17] Tonio_: I've send a small codeine typo patch to Riddell. I'll send it to you too (e.g. I'm not Mercante Bohnet) [11:18] allee: I uploaded codeine [11:18] Tonio_: ^^ [11:18] allee: hehe === allee never really liked the skeleton manpage [11:19] kk Riddell === allee hides in case someone looks at manpages written by him, and says the same [11:19] Riddell: if you are okay, I'm making a patch for the kicker system applet, to use $HOME and not system:/home by defualt [11:20] that causes realy lots of different issues [11:25] allee: can you upload to revu ? [11:26] Tonio_: yes [11:26] allee: why don't you just simply reupload the codeine with the typo patch ? [11:26] Tonio_: Why? [11:26] s/the// [11:26] Tonio_: [11:18] allee: I uploaded codeine [11:27] Tonio_: so it's done already [11:27] ah I missed it ;) [11:27] okay, that's because it is not on the REVU page........ no pb then :) === Tonio_ patching the system kicker applet [11:28] Tonio_: nevertheless thx [11:28] allee: ;) [11:33] hmm, meeting today, right? [11:37] Tm_T: indeed, although it's my tomorrow [11:37] warped timezones [11:37] Hobbsee <3 [11:37] whops [11:37] allee: I included the patch in the upload [11:37] Tonio_: what issues? [11:41] Riddell: opening big files take hudge time cause they are copied in a temp folder [11:42] Tonio_: in which program? [11:42] Riddell: all, like kaffeine, kate, amarok etc.......... [11:43] open a big file and you will see that it gets copied [11:43] kate is a good way to test it [11:44] open a 100 MB file with kate and you'll get a good example [11:53] hmm, would have thought that kate was programmed correctly [11:59] Riddell: I know it is supposed to work with most file, but finally, as the result is important, the best way might be to patch the systemapplet and reporting the issue on kde's BTS, don't you agree ? [12:03] Tonio_: yes, could well be [12:06] Riddell: okay, I'm trying to fix it... [12:18] Mez: fancy updating the k3b package? http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=9875 === Hobbsee is happy to update it if it's simple, and mez doesnt... [12:21] Hobbsee: please do :) [12:21] ok [12:22] we need some .debs to test before asking for UVF exception, so compile it on i386 dapper for that [12:23] just the k3b sources without the internationalisation and monkey encoding and decoding plugin? [12:24] oh, i18n too please === Hobbsee wonders how you package that [12:24] I've not worked out what the monkey thing is good for though [12:24] k3b-i18n is a separate package [12:24] just update it in much the same way [12:25] ok [12:25] ah, yep, right [12:27] urgh, it's a bz2 - i need to change that to .tar.gz? [12:27] Hobbsee: bzcat k3b...tar.bz2 | gzip --best -c - > k3b...orig.tar.gz [12:28] okay... [12:30] ah, thanks :) === Hobbsee builds in pbuilder so we have a .deb to test [12:33] raphink: fuse* pkgs: should they depend on fuser-utils (contain fusermount -u for unmounting) === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-11-246.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:33] raphink: be warned I've not use fuse yet, so I may be completely wrong. [12:33] allee: that can be to consider [12:33] allee: they're uploaded though [12:34] allee: I've not used it yet either hehe ... I need these packages as dependencies for klik [12:34] good thing i'm using an i386 dapper machine :) [12:34] raphink: yeah ;) Ah, and if I'm right, manpages need a SEE ALSO with fusermount [12:35] Hobbsee: why? [12:35] raphink: we need some .debs to test before asking for UVF exception, so compile it on i386 dapper for that [12:35] mhm === Hobbsee waits for the pbuilder to finish building k3b before building the other - i think my machine would die if i did them at the same time [12:50] ah what the heck...lol [12:51] Hobbsee: don't build on your machine then ;) [12:51] hehe [12:51] you want me to build on a windows machine??? [12:51] lol [12:51] hmmm [12:51] no :p [12:51] then you might need to send me a machine - real quick! [12:52] cos there arent any other linux ones in the house! [12:52] send you a machine? [12:52] what's the use ? [12:52] hehe [12:52] I build on 4 different machines in 4 different places in europe [12:53] ssh powa :) [12:53] hehe nice! [12:53] Hobbsee: if you need proc time, you can ask ;) [12:54] that means i would need to figure out ssh :P [12:54] Hobbsee: figure out? [12:54] how to use it [12:54] Hobbsee: you know how to use a console I presume ;) [12:54] yes [12:54] ssh is only secure remote login [12:54] lets hope so! [12:54] nothing special about it [12:54] you type [12:54] ssh user@remotemachine [12:54] you type your password [12:55] and you're in, logged in a console [12:55] if you've got an account on this machine [12:55] yep, right [12:55] couldn't be easier to figure out ;) [12:55] hehe [12:55] wanna try ? [12:55] ;) [12:55] i think i'm ok...but we'll see once it gets to making both at once [12:55] as you wish === Hobbsee cancels the second one [12:56] anywa, any ideas on how long this will take to build? [12:56] what machine do you have Hobbsee ? [12:56] 2.4ghz toshiba a10 satellite - 512mb ram [12:56] P4 I guess [12:57] celeron processor [12:57] an AMD with 2.4GHz would be very nice ;) [12:57] ok [12:58] I've got an AMD Athlon 2400+ / 1024 MB RAM here [12:58] 2GHz [12:58] a bit faster imo [12:58] nice! [12:58] i should have given you the k3b then... === ubijtsa [n=anders@213.208.70.155] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:58] if you feel like building on it === Hobbsee is thinking about it [12:58] i'm assuming that i do have to build it in pbuilder, and not just using debuild? [12:59] yep [12:59] you have to use a pbuilder [12:59] darn lol [01:03] hehe === Hobbsee prepares to kill off raphink's machine :D === LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === amu [n=amu@debian/developer/amu] has joined #kubuntu-devel [01:10] so test all the debs at once, i presume? [01:10] Riddell: ? [01:12] ho yes [01:12] Hobbsee: yes [01:12] the debs seem to install fine [01:12] and put them somewhere so we can test them too [01:12] sure - revu or hyperupload? [01:13] revu is good, what's hyperupload? [01:15] hyperupload's what i used to use before getting an account on revu === Hobbsee gives up [01:21] ok, we have both built! [01:21] now how do i upload them to revu, as hyperupload seems dead today? [01:24] trying... [01:29] Riddell: and other people: http://hyperupload.com/download/a5c08d57/Archive.tar.gz.html is the link to the k3b debs [01:32] raphink: see the line above! [01:32] lol [01:34] your link doesn't seem to work for me === Hobbsee_ [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel [01:37] ok, i'm back [01:38] anyone awake? === Hobbsee suddenly remebers about the fact that she was going to go to bed earlier tonight so she'd be awake for the meeting tomorrow... [01:39] seems to work thanks [01:39] upload the sources to revu or wherever then you can go to bed :) [01:39] ok, which changes file do i want to upload? both of them? [01:40] grrr! not this problem again! [01:41] Checksum doesn't match for /home/sarah/devel/k3b/k3b_0.12.12-0ubuntu1.dsc [01:41] are you dput-ing the .dsc? [01:41] you need to dput the .changes [01:41] dput-ing the *.changes file :) [01:41] run debuild -S again === Hobbsee raises her eyebrows [01:43] what the hell is going on here? === Hobbsee goes to look [01:44] damn it! [01:44] what's up? === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.23] has joined #kubuntu-devel [01:45] i'd used dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot -k98B2D4F0 on the directories before, to get the sources to upload - now the debian directory has been stripped out of the source tree [01:45] huh? [01:45] why would it do that? [01:46] i've got absolutely no idea, but it has on both [01:47] :/ [01:47] ouch [01:48] very ouch [01:48] that's somewhat worrying [01:49] hehe [01:51] if i've run a debuild -S on the new packages, do i need to build it with a pbuilder again? or can i ignore that step? [01:53] not if we already have the .debs, now we just want the sources [01:53] cool :) [01:53] did you find your debian directory? [01:53] nope, i just redid the work that i'd done before [01:54] debian directories went fishing in interstellar space, i think [01:54] spooky [01:54] very - they didnt go into the recycle bin either [01:55] argh! connection timed out again! [01:56] i'm beginnign to believe that this thing hates me :P === Hobbsee tries the smaller file [02:00] Riddell: i hate to be a further pain, but is that server still around? the xavier firefly one, or whatever it was? [02:01] ftp://upload@xavier.firefly-it.com? [02:02] connection keeps timing out to revu, for some reason === dholbach [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/dholbach] has joined #kubuntu-devel [02:02] hello [02:02]