[12:03] <AndyFitz> HiddenWolf,  thanks ,  my latest piece is called " when XGL goes wild"
[12:03] <mjg59> AndyFitz: You can boot in recovery mode, presumably?
[12:03] <Mithrandir> dholbach: ekiga is broken for me. :-(
[12:03] <dholbach> Mithrandir: i know
[12:03] <dholbach> i asked to give back opal 3 times already
[12:03] <Mithrandir> dholbach: it's broken after I fixed it so it compiles locally too.
[12:04] <AndyFitz> oh wait I got gettys
[12:04] <dholbach> Mithrandir: broken in what way?
[12:04] <AndyFitz> mjg59 yeah I can
[12:04] <Mithrandir> dholbach: fails to actually connect a call
[12:04] <AndyFitz> but I mean ..   why are they dead to me 
[12:04] <dholbach> Mithrandir: hrm, sounds like an upstream bug would be in order :/
[12:05] <Mithrandir> dholbach: first, registration fails due to a timeout, but retrying from the "accounts" place works
[12:05] <HiddenWolf> AndyFitz: It's art, true art. :)
[12:05] <Mithrandir> hmm, now it works to call out.
[12:06] <AndyFitz> HiddenWolf,  it speaks of our generation... broken but experimental..  ugly because it aspires  to be beautiful... deep
[12:08] <AndyFitz> freakin black text on a black console in a black getty
[12:10] <HiddenWolf> AndyFitz: what tells you that I'm not retired? ;)
[12:11] <AndyFitz> ./me infers technology generation
[12:11] <HiddenWolf> Good point.
[12:11] <AndyFitz> damn dot came out of nowhere
[12:11] <HiddenWolf> It's too late for deep thoughts.
[12:11] <AndyFitz> agreed  ( spoken at 9:11am brisbane time )
[12:12] <HiddenWolf> It's a quarter past midnight, and I racked up a grand total of six hours of sleep so far this week.
[12:12] <HiddenWolf> I'm entitled to my stupidity tonight. :)
[12:13] <ajmitch_> Kamion: zope3 (in main) need python-mechanize pulled in from debian to be installable, email doko & mdz/yourself about it?
[12:14] <Burgwork> mjg59, if you post to -devel-announce now, you might still get mad LWN weekly news coverage
[12:14] <mjg59> Burgwork: I'd rather not :p
[12:14] <mjg59> But yeah, I guess.
[12:14] <Kamion> ajmitch_: fairly sure it's in NEW, but I'm off to bed now
[12:14] <Kamion> I'll look at it tomorrow morning
[12:14] <ajmitch_> ok, thanks
[12:15] <ajmitch_> Burgwork: the world can only take so much shiny
[12:18] <AndyFitz> it looks silly 
[12:18] <Burgwork> ajmitch_, yes, but think of the mad marketing win for having .debs for ubuntu already
[12:21] <ajmitch_> oh sure
[12:21] <mdz> ajmitch_: colin and me
[12:38] <sebest> anyone using svn.debian.org could give me a hand?
[12:39] <sebest> i've an account on alioth, and i'm trying to checkouting with svn+ssh
[12:39] <sebest> but it doesn't accept my credentials
[12:40] <sebest> i'm trying this: svn --username "sebest-guest" co svn+ssh://svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-utopia/packages/unstable/
[12:41] <doko> seb128, Riddell: please could you have a look at http://lists.freedesktop.org/pipermail/xdg/2004-August/004489.html ? Can we support that please?
[12:42] <LaserJock> sebest: I had to wait a day for my svn.debian.org after I was approved on alioth, could that be your problem?
[12:43] <sebest> laserjock i waited one day already :)
[12:43] <LaserJock> sebest: I also changed the subversion conf file
[12:43] <sebest> it seems it doesn't take into account "--username" or something
[12:44] <LaserJock> well, I think there is the subversion username and ssh username
[12:44] <sebest> ah, they are not the same?
[12:45] <LaserJock> well, if you change one you don't necessarily change both
[12:45] <sebest> and the passwords, should i type it twice?
[12:45] <sebest> one time for svn , and one time for ssh?
[12:45] <LaserJock> yeah, I think so
[12:45] <LaserJock> I edited the subversion conf file to have alioth = $SVN_SSH ssh -l laserjock-guest
[12:46] <LaserJock> and then I due svn+alitoh:// instead of svn+ssh
[12:46] <LaserJock> I don't know if all that is necessary because I was doing this before I waited a day :-)
[12:47] <sebest> LaserJock i think the SVN_SSH did the trick , thanx
[12:48] <LaserJock> np
[12:50] <Riddell> doko: that sounds like the Portland proposal from the desktop architects meeting
[12:53] <doko> just found it in /usr/lib/openoffice2/program/senddoc
[12:53] <doko> Riddell: ^^^
[12:54] <Riddell> hmm, interesting
[12:54] <sivang> anybody know if subprocess.Popen.poll() can use a pid ?
[12:54] <sivang> (the reference seem not tomention it)
[12:55] <Kamion> sebest: it's more traditional to use svn+ssh://sebest-guest@svn.debian.org/...
[12:56] <Kamion> then you don't need the SVN_SSH and subversion configuration hacks
[12:56] <sebest> Kamion: i think that the fact that i was asked 2 passwords misleaded me
[12:57] <sebest> i thought i was typing it wrongly
[12:57] <mlistus> thanks for helping, good night
[01:04] <dholbach> good night
[01:04] <sebest> dholbach: good nifht
[01:04] <sebest> night
[01:04] <dholbach> night sebest :)
[01:07] <sivang> Kamion: do you recall how to check for EOF in python file obejct?
[01:08] <Kamion> searching for EOF in http://docs.python.org/lib/bltin-file-objects.html suggests various methods
[01:09] <sivang> hrm, I was looking at http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/os-fd-ops.html, thanks then
[01:42] <failure> someone who is in charge of security.ubuntu.com?
[01:42] <failure> or someone of the ubuntu security team?
[01:51] <Kamion> failure: Martin Pitt's in bed if he has any sense
[01:52] <Kamion> hmm, note my lack of sense. /me -> bedm really this time
[01:52] <Kamion> s/bedm/bed,/
[01:52] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/bootcharts/quest-dapper-20060216-1.png
[01:53] <Keybuk> ^ I think I shall show that to ogra in the morning, just for amusement value
[01:54] <failure> well, the problem is that security.ubuntu.com is not up-to-date
[01:54] <failure> respect to archive.ubuntu.com
[01:55] <failure> compare ftp://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy-security/main/binary-i386/
[01:55] <failure> with ftp://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy-security/main/binary-i386/
[01:55] <failure> for example
[01:55] <failure> so if someone could report this...
[02:09] <failure> I've emailed Martin Pitt
[02:09] <failure> Well, time to go to bed
[02:22] <alexr> Mithrandir: are you there?
[02:47] <doko> lamont: please check if bind9 builds correctly on powerpc with gcc4, the bug should not be present anymore in Ubuntu's gcc-4.0
[03:25] <doko> Diziet: please could you reenable -fno-strict-aliasing for firefox on amd64? trying to work around some crashes. a test build looks more stable
[05:02] <dilinger> oh no
[05:03] <dilinger> " Matthew Garrett was briefly my hero today (taking over from Iain Holmes) for uploading into Dapper xserver-xgl and Compiz. Very nice it is too, but it's a bit too crashy on my laptop for any real work."
[05:03] <dilinger> must.. resist.. eye.. candy..
[05:03] <ajmitch_> nah, just get it over & done with
[05:04] <Kyral> lol
[05:04] <Kyral> dilinger: This is why I'm pinning the Clearlooks package with Cairo enabled :P
[05:05] <ajmitch_> dilinger: I tried it, admired the nice shinines, and I'm over it now
[05:06] <Kyral> how do you activate it anyway?
[05:09] <Kyral> Anyway Transset and Cairo is nice enough for me :D
[05:27] <dieman> mjg59: you are my hero (re: xgl)
[05:32] <sladen> dilinger: :)
[05:32] <sladen> mjg59: thinkpad-keys hint
[05:32] <sladen> mjg59: and if you can't sync it, just do a manual upload... :)
[07:01] <fabbione> mdz: ping?
[07:03] <fabbione> Kamion, mdz: permission to upload partman-auto-lvm-9ubuntu1. It is a UVF break but there are only white space cleanup and update translations in the release. All the bug fixes in pal-9 from Debian were already present in our 8buntuX release
[07:41] <fabbione> mdz, Kamion: permission to upload redhat-cluster-suite, new CVS snapshot from STABLE (bug fixing only branch).
[07:43] <neuralis> marilize: ping
[07:44] <marilize> neuralis: hi
[07:45] <neuralis> marilize: hello. any chance i can get around ~100 CDs shipped to massachussetts in the next week or so? it's for an unanticipated talk.
[07:46] <marilize> neuralis: ok, just place an order on shipit, put my name in as reason, and i'll make sure it goes out asap.....will take a few days to reach you
[07:46] <pitti> Good morning
[07:47] <neuralis> marilize: you rock. thanks.
[07:47] <marilize> neuralis: :)
[07:55] <mdz> fabbione: both partman-auto-lvm and redhat-cluster-suite OK
[07:55] <mdz> fabbione: please mention the exception in the changelog
[07:58] <Mithrandir> mdz: permission to upload squashfs-utils 3.0 instead of 2.1?  According to BenC it means using a bunch of newer code paths in the kernel which fixes some of the oopses we've seen.
[07:58] <mdz> Mithrandir: have you tested it with the live CD?
[07:59] <Mithrandir> mdz: BenC has
[07:59] <mdz> do you know which architecture(s) he tested?
[07:59] <fabbione> mdz: meh ok.. i already have everything signed and ready...
[07:59] <mdz> fabbione: no need to rebuild then, but please remember in the future
[07:59] <Mithrandir> mdz: ppc at least.  I can test on i386 and amd64 today.
[08:00] <fabbione> mdz: ok thanks
[08:00] <mdz> fabbione: it helps keep everyone informed of the workflow
[08:00] <mdz> Mithrandir: please test first, but if your tests are successful, I have no objection to the upgraed
[08:00] <mdz> upgrade
[08:00] <Mithrandir> mdz: ok, thanks.
[08:01] <fabbione> mdz: sure..
[08:01] <fabbione> mdz: i am hounestly just lazy enough to rebuild them...
[08:20] <viviersf> sorry to ask this
[08:21] <viviersf> but who does initrd.gz ?
[08:35] <pitti> hi carlos 
[08:35] <carlos> morning
[08:45] <fabbione> OH CRAPTASTIC
[08:51] <viviersf> what fs format does the initrd.gz on dapper use ?
[08:52] <Mithrandir> it's an initramfs, which means it's one or more cpio archives.
[09:07] <viviersf> :(
[09:07] <viviersf> so you changed
[09:07] <viviersf> it
[09:10] <jsgotangco> xgl and compiz weee
[09:11] <viviersf> :(
[09:13] <dholbach> good morning
[09:15] <pitti> hi dholbach 
[09:15] <pitti> morning mvo
[09:15] <dholbach> hey pitti
[09:16] <mvo> good morning dholbach, pitti, * :)
[09:30] <lixus> hello, how/where do i report problems about http://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/daily/current/dapper-install-powerpc.iso
[09:31] <pitti> lixus: the CD doesn't work in general? or a bug in a specific package?
[09:32] <pitti> lixus: generally, you should report bugs to https://launchpad.net/bugs
[09:32] <lixus> pitti, no it works in generall, but there are some pitfalls.
[09:32] <pitti> lixus: can you please search in the existing bugs before? maybe they are already filed, and there might be workarounds in the bug comments
[09:32] <lixus> sure
[09:33] <pitti> thank you
[09:51] <highvoltage> not strictly a devel issue, but have anyone seen http://www.ubuntu.co.za
[09:52] <highvoltage> who can i mail to get rid of that!?
[09:53] <fabbione> ahhaha
[09:53] <fabbione> running on a m$ server
[09:53] <highvoltage> just did a whois, turned out it has nothing to do with ubuntu, shew!
[09:54] <ompaul> http://www.ubuntu.co.za/  HTTP 403.6 - Forbidden: IP address rejected
[09:55] <ompaul> highvoltage, mail canonical they deal with copyright abuse which we might think that is - what is on the page given I am prohibited from looking at it
[09:56] <ompaul> highvoltage, perhaps a chat in #ubuntu-offtopic
[09:56] <highvoltage> ompaul: a microsoft IIS error
[09:56] <highvoltage> ok, thanks
[10:08] <jsgotangco> highvoltage, oh wow nice catch
[10:28] <Kamion> ompaul: I doubt it's copyright abuse, seeing as "ubuntu" is a Bantu word and that's an African web site
[10:28] <Kamion> ompaul: they were there first ;)
[10:29] <Kamion> IIRC they already existed when Ubuntu the distribution was named, but I could be wrong
[10:29] <jsgotangco> it was a good chuckle though :D
[10:29] <jsgotangco> mmm today's build looks good
[10:31] <viviersf> Kamion, no offence, but dont use the word : bantu
[10:31] <viviersf> as its regarded as a racist word in africa
[10:32] <ompaul> Kamion, ahh
[10:33] <jsgotangco> is it? i thought it meant the family of languages
[10:33] <ompaul> Kamion, it obviously too early in the morning I read that as nz not za (double, quadrupal doh etc)
[10:33] <Kamion> viviersf: er, ok - I was using it in the sense of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_languages rather than as a racial classification
[10:33] <jsgotangco> ahhh i see it now
[10:34] <Kamion> I understand it's offensive when applied to people ...
[10:35] <pitti> yay - langpack support for .server files works! that completes another spec
[10:36] <seb128> rock!
[10:37] <pitti> well, zyga did the bulk work, I just made his patch not break the API and crash gnome :)
[10:38] <viviersf> Kamion, i know im just saying :)
[10:46] <lucas> I have a problem with suspend to disk (it worked with breezy, not with dapper) : when I resume, the screen only shows strange squares and colored lines
[10:46] <lucas> against which package should I report this ?
[11:19] <ogra> Kinnison, whats a KEY_COFFEE event ??
[11:19] <Kinnison> ogra: lock-screen
[11:19] <ogra> heh
[11:19] <ogra> funny name 
[11:19] <ogra> :)
[11:19] <ogra> Kinnison, http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-power-manager-list/2006-February/msg00025.html
[11:19] <ogra> seen that 
[11:20] <ogra> do we want a UVF exception (would mean to merge a lot of our changes manually :/ )
[11:21] <Kinnison> ogra: Hmm
[11:21] <Kinnison> ogra: Might be worth it
[11:21] <ogra> the translations seem tempting, yes
[11:22] <pitti> hey ogra
[11:22] <pitti> ogra: HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!
[11:23] <ogra> hey, thanks :)
[11:23] <Kinnison> ogra: aye, although the "no lid action on AC" seems odd and strange
[11:23] <ogra> absolutely ...
[11:23] <Kinnison> I for one would file a bug against that
[11:23] <Kinnison> but he hasn't merged the 'lock' action yet
[11:24] <ogra> we should probably only merge the translations ...
[11:25] <ogra> it appears to be less work ... i dont see anything that would be *really* intresting in the rest of the changelog
[11:25] <JaneW> **Reminder** Dapper Dev Status Update meeting today at 14:00UTC in #ubuntu-meeting
[11:30] <Mithrandir> ogra: it seems gnome-screensaver doesn't allow empty password.
[11:30] <Mithrandir> +s
[11:30] <ogra> Mithrandir, neither does xscreensaver ...
[11:31] <ogra> we had a patch in xss for the livecd ... i'll look if it can be ported to gss
[11:31] <Mithrandir> ogra: uh, what kind of patch?
[11:31] <Mithrandir> just fix it to allow empty passwords.
[11:31] <ogra> one that forbid locking if a certain value in gdm was set
[11:32] <Mithrandir> that's silly.  The ubuntu password on the live cd is now blank and choosing "lock screen" to turn on the screensaver is perfectly reasonable
[11:32] <ogra> we did set this value on the old livecd ...
[11:33] <Mithrandir> it should allow blank passwords _anyway_.
[11:33] <Mithrandir> I have that for my test user, for instance.
[11:33] <ogra> hmm
[11:33] <ogra> i'll look into it ...
[11:33] <ogra> but not today ...
[11:34] <Mithrandir> I'll reassign the bug to gss and you. :-)
[11:34] <ogra> oki
[11:35] <Mithrandir> done, bug 30118 is yours
[11:35] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30118 in gnome-screensaver "LiveCD: default user password, lock screen problem" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30118
[11:47] <sivang> morning all
[11:48] <pitti> hi sivang 
[11:48] <sivang> ogra: HAPPY BIRTHDAY !
[11:48] <ogra> sivang, thanks :)
[11:48] <HiddenWolf> ogra: Happy birthday!
[11:48] <ogra> thanks :)
[11:49] <ogra> hehe... 
[11:50] <Kinnison> ogra: Yeah, I'd say the better help and the extra translations would make it worthwhile for either you or me to ask for UVF exception
[11:51] <mvo> ogra: HAPPY BIRTHDAY
[11:51] <ogra> mvo, thanks :)
[11:51] <ogra> thanks all :)
[11:52] <jsgotangco> whoa
[11:52] <jsgotangco> happy birthday ogra 
[11:52] <ogra> thanks :)
[11:57] <mjg59> elmo: Can hotkeys-setup get synced?
[12:05] <Mithrandir> mjg59: compiz segfaults on amd64. :-(
[12:09] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Yes, I know
[12:09] <mjg59> Mithrandir: I'll look into it
[12:10] <Mithrandir> mjg59: -> #ubuntu-xgl
[12:12] <apokryphos> hm, #xgl-ubuntu too
[12:45] <Kinnison> mjg59: that Xgl stuff is, erm, interesting
[12:45] <Kinnison> a wee bit over-bling
[12:45] <Kinnison> and when I tried to reduce the bling it crashed, but I'll play again tonight I think
[12:45] <Treenaks> Kinnison: For years you've had _no_ bling, now you're just getting it all at once ;)
[12:45] <Kinnison> Treenaks: heh
[12:46] <Kinnison> I have 8x3 desktops for a reason :-)
[12:46] <Treenaks> Kinnison: think 3d first :)
[12:47] <Treenaks> Kinnison: map them to a polyhedron :)
[12:47] <Kinnison> Treenaks: an interesting idea
[12:48] <HiddenWolf> I'd get so lost. :)
[12:48] <Kinnison> But it *is* cute
[12:48] <HiddenWolf> Kinnison: 8x3?
[12:48] <Kinnison> HiddenWolf: eight desktops alone, three down
[12:48] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: what? on a ball-like structure with 20 desktops on it? :P
[12:48] <HiddenWolf> A different terminal on each window? :)
[12:48] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: no way you'd get lost :P
[12:48] <HiddenWolf> Treenaks: true, i'm not hardcore, but I mostly only use 2, three if i"m working.
[12:49] <Kinnison> HiddenWolf: nope, topleft == mail, one across from that is IRC, one down from IRC is terminals for current context work, one to the right of that is editors, up from that is web (one right of irc)
[12:49] <Kinnison> HiddenWolf: etc
[12:49] <HiddenWolf> Kinnison: what screen resolution? :)
[12:49] <Kinnison> HiddenWolf: 1024x768 (12" laptop)
[12:49] <HiddenWolf> ah :)
[12:49] <Kinnison> HiddenWolf: although I do the same on my desktop which has 1280x1024 (LCD panel)
[12:50] <Kinnison> And I did the same when I had a 1600x1200 display at work
[12:50] <Kinnison> and those habits formed when I was about 15
[12:50] <HiddenWolf> I'm using 1920x1200, so I cram two windows next to eachother. So one window for work, one for irc/gaim, and one for mail. :)
[12:50] <HiddenWolf> with rhythmbox all over the place, obviously. :)
[12:50] <Kinnison> most I cram next to each other is an emacs window and a terminal with vim in it
[12:51] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: 1920x1200 is pure love :)
[12:51] <HiddenWolf> Treenaks: I haven't craved for a bigger screen since I bought it, which is an entirely new level of bliss. :)
[12:51] <Kinnison> Hence I changed from a CRT to an LCD on my desktop even though it offers less screen realestate
[12:52] <Treenaks> Kinnison: also since you were 15? :P
[12:52] <Kinnison> Treenaks: *fnar fnar*
[12:52] <Kinnison> Treenaks: will you be at fosdem?
[12:52] <Treenaks> Kinnison: probably not
[12:52] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: neither, though
[12:53] <Kinnison> :-(
[12:53] <Treenaks> Kinnison: I'll be at LugRadio Live..
[12:53] <Kinnison> Treenaks: when/where is that?
[12:53] <HiddenWolf> Treenaks: argh
[12:53] <Treenaks> Kinnison: Wolverhampton
[12:53] <sivang> Treenaks: how come ? :)
[12:54] <Kinnison> sivang: when?
[12:54] <Treenaks> Kinnison: 22/23 July
[12:54] <Kinnison> sivang: ignore that :-)
[12:54] <Kinnison> Treenaks: Hmm, I might be able to make that
[12:54] <Treenaks> Jono somewhat expects me to speak about the crack that'll be going into dapper+1
[12:54] <Kinnison> heh
[12:54] <sivang> Kinnison: you also didn't hug me back when I hugged you this morning :) oh well, taking me for granted..
[12:54] <Kinnison> so you'll be at the post-dapper devel conference?
[12:54] <Treenaks> Kinnison: when's that? :)
[12:54] <Kinnison> sivang: I am a cad and a bounder and you may bite your thumb at me
[12:54] <Kinnison> Treenaks: early may I imagine
[12:55] <Treenaks> good point :)
[12:55] <sivang> where is LUgRadio location?
[12:55] <Treenaks> sivang: http://www.lugradio.org/live/2006/index.php/Main_Page
[12:55] <Treenaks> sivang: 'Sat 22nd and Sun 23rd July 2006 - Wolverhampton University Students' Union, Wulfruna Street Wolverhampton WV1 1LY'
[12:56] <sivang> Treenaks: ah too far for me date wise, I'll probably be in EU ealier though
[12:57] <sivang> Kinnison: /me tries to parse :)
[12:59] <Kinnison> sivang: cad == vulgar or mean person
[12:59] <Kinnison> sivang: bounder == one who is morally reprehensible
[12:59] <Kinnison> sivang: to bite your thumb at someone == to insult them in a similar way to giving them the finger
[12:59] <dholbach> Kinnison: is that last expression still used today? :)
[01:00] <Kinnison> dholbach: No it's not
[01:01] <Kinnison> dholbach: the entire phrase is old-world
[01:01] <Kinnison> dholbach: along with "I bite my thumb sir, yes sir I bite my thumb, but I do not bite my thumb at you sir, on no, not at you sir"
[01:01] <dholbach> I'm glad I don't feel too bad for my (lack of) colloquial english today. :-))
[01:01] <dholbach> Kinnison: Right. :-)
[01:02] <ogra> Kinnison, every day is a hugday ;)
[01:02] <Kinnison> yay
[01:02] <Kinnison> sivang: are you in on the LP meeting? (just starting)
[01:06] <doko> seb128, Riddell: please could you have a look at http://lists.freedesktop.org/pipermail/xdg/2004-August/004489.html ? Can we support that please?
[01:06] <doko> just found it in /usr/lib/openoffice2/program/senddoc
[01:08] <seb128> why do you need that for?
[01:08] <Riddell> doko: I've had it added as an existing solution to the Portland task description for opening urls
[01:14] <Kamion> er, did kbd-chooser start ignoring preseeding?
[01:14] <Mithrandir> I don't think so?
[01:15] <Kamion> try booting with debian-installer/locale=pt kbd-chooser/method=pt-latin1
[01:15] <Kamion> watch it pick a Brazilian keymap
[01:17] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk: I just updated bug 29789, blacklisting the module doesn't work
[01:17] <Ubugtu> malone bug 29789 in udev "tv card audio not working" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29789
[01:18] <Keybuk> does the module get loaded even if blacklisted?
[01:18] <Mithrandir> Kamion: blame localechooser
[01:20] <Kamion> !
[01:20] <Mithrandir> hmm, or actually possibly not.
[01:20] <Kamion> it doesn't touch keymaps
[01:20] <Mithrandir> localechooser thinks we're in .br, though
[01:20] <Keybuk> ogra: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/bootcharts/quest-dapper-20060216-1.png
[01:20] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk: yes
[01:21] <Keybuk> HiddenWolf: meh ... it shouldn't :)
[01:21] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah, that's a sort of slightly independent bug
[01:21] <Kamion> working on that too
[01:21] <ogra> Keybuk, WOAH
[01:21] <ogra> initramfs looks really nice there :)
[01:21] <Kamion> you can try debian-installer/locale=pt_BR kbd-chooser/method=pt-latin1 if you prefer, should exhibit the same bug
[01:22] <Keybuk> HiddenWolf: can you cat /sys/bus/pci/devices/*/modalias for me and paste it somewhere
[01:23] <Keybuk> ogra: the nice thing is that the time from usplash to gdm is only just over 10s
[01:23] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/8730
[01:23] <ogra> and you beat me with 2seconds, bah ... http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051212-1.png
[01:24] <Keybuk> ogra: yes, and yours is a heavily stripped system :)  mine's a standard, fresh, dapper install <g>
[01:24] <ogra> heh ... yup
[01:25] <Keybuk> I've just got to get used to fhe fact that it sounds like a coffee machine, rather than a jet engine
[01:25] <Kamion> Mithrandir: BTW did you mean to leave all that debugging code in there?
[01:26] <Mithrandir> Kamion: no
[01:26] <ogra> Keybuk, just put in a jet engine then ...  the volume will overrule the coffe machine i guess :)
[01:27] <lucas> I have a problem with suspend to disk (it worked with breezy, not with dapper) : when I resume, the screen only shows strange squares and colored lines. Against which package should I report this, or whom should I talk to ?
[01:28] <ogra> lucas, are you sure you dont use the nvidia driver ? its normal behavior for it ...
[01:28] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I think we should probably skip all the default-setting code in kbd-chooser/method if it's already set; although we would need to take care that backing up and repeating kbd-chooser still works
[01:28] <lucas> ATI Technologies Inc Radeon Mobility M7 LW [Radeon Mobility 7500] 
[01:28] <Keybuk> ogra: my laptop suffices for that
[01:29] <lucas> so I don't think so :)
[01:29] <Keybuk> ok, so today my wireless signal drops out if I type
[01:29] <ogra> lucas, but i guess acpi-scripts would be the right package for power-management issues
[01:29] <Keybuk> and comes back as soon as I take my hands away from the keyboard
[01:29] <Kamion> Mithrandir: although actually backing up doesn't work properly at the moment - note how if you boot with the parameters above and go back to kbd-chooser, it ignores you even at low priority
[01:29] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yeah, I just noticed
[01:29] <Kamion> pain in arse :)
[01:29] <ogra> Keybuk, i'm on dialup as well, seems my ISP united with yours ...
[01:30] <sladen> Keybuk: check your antenna hasn't fallen off the card
[01:31] <doko> fabbione: icon: * Use default gcc-3.4 on sparc to get 3.3 out of main.  "default gcc-3.4" ???
[01:31] <doko> seb128: just look: /usr/lib/openoffice2/program/senddoc
[01:32] <fabbione> doko: i meant to say use gcc-3.4 to build icon on sparc.
[01:32] <fabbione> doko: nothing more
[01:32] <sladen> Keybuk: is the first 4 seconds (which are blank) the kernel executing before it start the initramfs
[01:32] <fabbione> doko: i will try with the new gcc soo to see if the ICE is fixed and we can switch it to 4.0
[01:32] <fabbione> doko: i just had no time for it
[01:33] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'm wondering if default_keymap can just return the preseeded value if it's set.
[01:33] <Keybuk> sladen: yeah, pretty much it seems; it doesn't feel like 4s though
[01:34] <Keybuk> I assume bootchart takes its "uptime" scale from the kernel's internal clock
[01:35] <sladen> Keybuk: could get the bootloader to whack the usplash graphic up before it loads the kernel... (a la syslinux/gfxboot)
[01:36] <sladen> Keybuk: I like the fact you've moved the networking startup to after GDM, I'd been waiting for somebody to accept that as being "acceptable".  It's also what XP does
[01:37] <Keybuk> sladen: it's not actually "after" so much, it just starts when convenient as it doesn't share any resource block with anything else
[01:37] <Keybuk> but it is shoved down the priority stack
[01:37] <Keybuk> and doesn't block anything non-networky
[01:39] <Keybuk> it's a nice machine :)  I'm happy with it
[01:39] <sladen> Keybuk: is this the HP laptop, or a supped up amd64 power house?
[01:41] <Keybuk> Alienware Aurora 7500 - Dual-core ~5Ghz AMD64, 2GB RAM, 10kRPM SATA drives, dual GeForce 7800 GTX SLI cards, etc.
[01:41] <Mithrandir> probably not ~5GHz amd64.
[01:43] <Keybuk> that's their estimate thing
[01:43] <Keybuk> Linux sees it as two 2.5Ghz processors
[01:43] <Kinnison> so "enough" processing power 
[01:43] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: so it's a dualcore 2.5GHz, not a 5GHz. :-P
[01:44] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: right, amd describe it the other way, and I'm not totally an expert on this stuff yet :)
[01:44] <Mithrandir> they do?  Silly people.
[01:45] <Kamion> Mithrandir: that looks like it could work too, yeah
[01:45] <Nafallo> morning :-)
[01:45] <Mithrandir> Kamion: we should redesign kbd-chooser or drop it, it's a mess, really.
[01:45] <Mithrandir> Kamion: very, very brittle
[01:46] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I think Intel do too with their "Hard Core" processor, so is probably the new marketing game
[01:47] <Keybuk> "if you get a dual-core it's twice the speed" ... "no, it behaves like two things running at the same speed ... the different is subtle, but important"
[01:47] <Mithrandir> yup
[01:47] <Mithrandir> and you can't uniformly say one is better than the other.
[01:48] <Kamion> Mithrandir: mm
[01:52] <Mithrandir> Kamion: can a filteredcommand get to the gtk object tree somehow?  I need to plumb a TreeModel in there.
[01:55] <Mithrandir> Kamion: actually, that'll probably break horribly with the qt frontend.
[01:55] <Mithrandir> Kamion: any idea how to do this without violating all kinds of abstractions?
[02:01] <Mithrandir> Riddell: ^^ you might want to comment on this, since it'll affect you.
[02:01] <jsgotangco> good evening
[02:02] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk: is that pastebin of any help?
[02:03] <Keybuk> HiddenWolf: yup, that's fine
[02:08] <Kinnison> ogra: Who should I ask about a UVF exception for g-p-m?
[02:08] <pitti> Kinnison: Kamion or mdz
[02:08] <ogra> Kinnison, mdz/Kamion
[02:08] <Kinnison> pitti: thanks
[02:09] <Kinnison> Kamion: g-p-m released a new version recently, which includes a lot of improved help and a lot of translation work. I'd like to update to that (plus our patches)
[02:09] <HiddenWolf> Groetjes terug. :)
[02:09] <Kinnison> Kamion: would that be acceptable?
[02:09] <HiddenWolf> damn, wrong channal
[02:09] <HiddenWolf> sorry
[02:11] <ogra> Kinnison, using debian/patches this time would probably be helpful for next upstream merges neither you, nor mjg59 or me used patches ;)
[02:13] <Kinnison> ogra: yeah, probably. I need to learn how on earth one does that
[02:14] <ogra> use cdbs-edit-patch ;)
[02:14] <ogra> its very very easy ... silly me didnt ue it from the start ...
[02:14] <ogra> *use
[02:14] <Kinnison> I'll have to look into how one does that
[02:14] <Kinnison> ogra: if Kamion agrees to the UVF exception I'll do it
[02:14] <pitti> Kinnison: works very similar to dbs-edit-patch or dpatch-edit-patch
[02:15] <ogra> you need a debian/patches dir first ...
[02:15] <ogra> then just: cdbs-edit-patch XXyour_patch_name 
[02:15] <Kinnison> pitti: I've never had a package complex enough to warrant cdbs/dbs/dpatch
[02:15] <pitti> oh, interesting
[02:15] <ogra> where XX is a number for the order it gets applied
[02:15] <seb128> cdbs-edit-patch is quite basic
[02:15] <seb128> doesn't cope with conflicts
[02:15] <seb128> and doesn't ignore .orig .rej when doing the diff
[02:16] <ogra> do we have HCT already anywhere ??
[02:16] <Kinnison> does anyone here use hct for managing a patch-based package?
[02:16] <pitti> right, simple-patchsys is very - well - 'simple' :)
[02:16] <Keybuk> HCT is still waiting on a long list of Launchpad features to be complete
[02:17] <Kinnison> Keybuk: does it not work in standalone mode at all?
[02:17] <ogra> thats what i thought
[02:17] <Keybuk> Kinnison: it doesn't *have* a standalone mode
[02:17] <Kinnison> Keybuk: fair enough
[02:17] <Kinnison> seb128: So what would you recommend instead of cdbs?
[02:17] <azeem> cdbs can use several patches systems, like dpatch, quilt and its own simple-patchsys
[02:18] <seb128> Kinnison: I do recommend CDBS, almost all the GNOME packages use it
[02:18] <Kinnison> seb128: you just recommend against simple-patchsys?
[02:18] <seb128> Kinnison: I was just speaking about cdbs-edit-patch that could use some extra work
[02:18] <pitti> Kinnison: by using cdbs and gnome.mk, you will automatically get some goodies like good langpack support
[02:18] <seb128> yep
[02:18] <seb128> you just have to put a diff to debian/patches and you are done
[02:18] <pitti> Kinnison: cdbs works with dpatch as well (or quilt)
[02:19] <Kinnison> pitti: right, so I should use gnome.mk -- I agree it sounds sane for gnome-power-manager
[02:19] <ogra> Kinnison, i just switched g-p-m to cdbs with last upstream to make it easier for debians gnome team to adopt it ...
[02:19] <sivang> pitti: langpack suppose made it to upstream cdbs?
[02:19] <pitti> Kinnison: in particular, it will automatically update the POT file (for translation templates) and update .desktop/.server files accordingly
[02:19] <ogra> (to make seb128 happy ;))
[02:19] <sivang> s/suppose/support/
[02:20] <pitti> sivang: no, just into Ubuntu's
[02:20] <pitti> it's not really a proper cdbs feature, gnome.mk is just misplaced in the cdbs package
[02:20] <pitti> it should actually belong into some gnome-package-tools or whatever
[02:20] <pitti> wb mvo
[02:20] <sivang> pitti: ah, cool. you did it I assume? :)
[02:20] <pitti> yes
[02:20] <mvo> hello pitti. my wireless is the suck currently :)
[02:21] <ogra> hmm, we ship a grub splash now ? 
[02:21] <ogra> was that planned ? 
[02:24] <mvo> ogra: yes
[02:24] <HiddenWolf> do we? not on upgrades?
[02:25] <ogra> mvo, where was that specced ? i didnt know about it ... 
[02:25] <mvo> ogra: got a mail about it this morning that we want to enable it for testing in dapper
[02:25] <mvo> ogra: I didn't too until this morning :)
[02:25] <ogra> *sigh* 
[02:25] <JaneW> sivang/ Lathiat/ mjg59 : ping, are you planning to attend the Dapper Status meeting in 35 mins? If not please send a status update to me by e-mail or PM. Thanks.
[02:26] <ogra> JaneW, has mjg59 anything lft now that Kinnison has power management assigned ? 
[02:26] <ogra> *left
[02:26] <Kinnison> ogra: god yes
[02:27] <Kinnison> ogra: I don't know anywhere near enough to take on mjg59's full set
[02:28] <mvo> ogra: isdn?
[02:28] <JaneW> ogra: er I heard about Kinnison doing power management... but it's still listed as mjg59 on the report, is it officially changed then?
[02:28] <ogra> mvo, yup... my DSL broke last night ...
[02:28] <JaneW> oooh when did the LP fonts change?
[02:28] <mvo> Kinnison: gnome-power-manager is working nicely on my box, good job. the default value for the display brightness is a bit low though (but I'm sure that was reported before)
[02:29] <ogra> JaneW, i guess Kinnison might take the spec with mjg59 doing his usual work on it ...
[02:29] <Kamion> Kinnison: can you send mail with the changelog please?
[02:29] <viviersf> infinity, ping
[02:29] <ogra> mvo, i changed it yesterday
[02:29] <mvo> ogra: thanks :)
[02:29] <ogra> mvo, can you look up at how many percent it sits now ? 
[02:29] <JaneW> Kinnison: can I reassing spec to you? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/power-management-configuration
[02:29] <Kamion> Mithrandir: add a method to the frontend to do whatever you need, call it from the filteredcommand subclass
[02:30] <ogra> mvo, should be 100% for AC and 70% for battery
[02:30] <Kinnison> JaneW: assignee? sure
[02:30] <Kamion> Mithrandir: there are several examples already down near the bottom of gtkui.py
[02:30] <ogra> (it was originally at 7% and 3% :) )
[02:30] <Kamion> e.g. set_autopartition_choices
[02:30] <mvo> ogra: when I installed it last night it was still 7 and 3 :)
[02:30] <Kinnison> Kamion: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-power-manager-list/2006-February/msg00025.html is the release announce
[02:30] <Kinnison> Kamion: do you need more than that?
[02:30] <mjg59> Kinnison: There's an issue with the new release
[02:30] <ogra> mvo, oh, then you got the older version ... was fixed in ubuntu8
[02:30] <Kinnison> mjg59: go on... ?
[02:30] <mjg59> Kinnison: In that it makes changes orthogonal to your lid locking
[02:31] <Kinnison> mjg59: yes I know
[02:31] <mjg59> That is, the lid action now only occurs on battery
[02:31] <Kinnison> mjg59: I expect I'll be reverting that bit
[02:31] <mjg59> Which leaves us moving lock on lid close preferences back to g-s-s (or adding more UI elements to g-p-m)
[02:32] <Kinnison> g-p-p should have a lid action for ac and for battery if this guy is serious
[02:33] <Kamion> Kinnison: fine if you discuss/resolve the lid/battery issue with mjg59
[02:33] <Kinnison> Kamion: thanks
[02:33] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hm, 'k
[02:34] <ogra> mjg59, Kinnison, cant we just omit that change and go on using Kinnisons change ? 
[02:34] <Kinnison> mjg59: it's a small change to revert that bit of the upgrade
[02:34] <JaneW> Kinnison: done
[02:34] <ogra> its the more sane approach i think
[02:34] <Kinnison> mjg59: isolated to one function in gpm-manager.c and I can see how to revert it cleanly for now
[02:34] <ogra> Kinnison++
[02:34] <mjg59> I think the upstream change makes sense, though
[02:34] <Kamion> Riddell: anything for me to merge yet for the Qt espresso frontend?
[02:34] <Toma-> just an idea here... but would it be possible to take a desktop snapshot on shutdown and convert it to a usplash boot image? so that when the machine reboot, an image of your desktop pops up...?
[02:34] <Kinnison> mjg59: if you feel it makes sense, then I can adjust my lid patch to match
[02:34] <Kinnison> mjg59: So it won't lock if you're on ac
[02:35] <mjg59> Kinnison: No, I think locking should happen regardless of ac. I think sleep should only happen when on battery.
[02:35] <ogra> yes 
[02:35] <Kinnison> mjg59: right, I can do that
[02:35] <ogra> but keep the locking as is  ...
[02:35] <mjg59> Kinnison: Which means they can't be part of the same UI element
[02:35] <Kinnison> it'll need a larger patch but I can do that
[02:35] <mjg59> Since semantically it's "Do this when on battery and lid is closed"
[02:35] <Kinnison> mjg59: richard and I have discussed making the locking separate from the action
[02:36] <mjg59> Kinnison: Yeah
[02:36] <Kinnison> mjg59: but it'll be a while before upstream gets there
[02:36] <mjg59> Kinnison: But that's going to be a pain to describe in the UI
[02:36] <Kinnison> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331164
[02:36] <JaneW> Kinnison: any chance you could get that spec out of drafting?
[02:36] <Ubugtu> gnome2 bug 331164 in gnome-power-manager "No facility to lock the screen on lid closure" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]  
[02:37] <Kinnison> JaneW: not by 1400utc
[02:37] <JaneW> Kinnison: heh, I mean in the next week ;), but by the time I send out the report tomorrow would be even better ...
[02:38] <JaneW> Kinnison: it would move your goal out of red ... and rem Green is good
[02:39] <Kinnison> JaneW: I'll do my best
[02:39] <tseng> can anyone clear banshee and beagle from NEW?
[02:39] <sladen> Toma-: dithered in fablous 14-colours!
[02:39] <janimo> are package builds labeled with MANUALDEPWAIT  in LP getting given back daily by somebody?
[02:40] <ogra> mjg59, as long as its tied to the action, i still think it should be in the ui where the action is defined ...
[02:40] <Toma-> sladen, oh... usplash is 14 colours? :|
[02:40] <Keybuk> seb128: could you duplicate your alsa udev rule, and put something like "ls /dev/snd >> /var/run/test.log" in RUN instead ... I have a hunch that your controlC0 appears before your mixer <g>
[02:40] <Toma-> sladen, i thought it would use fb?
[02:40] <mjg59> ogra: But then we have difficulty explaining it
[02:40] <sladen> Toma-: it does.
[02:40] <ogra> janimo, did you note,  we need grub images now for derivative artwork 
[02:40] <Toma-> doesnt fb go up to 64k?
[02:40] <seb128> Keybuk: sure, should I reboot or just udev restart then?
[02:41] <mjg59> Toma-: vga16 doesn't, no
[02:41] <Toma-> at least with the vga= options is does...
[02:41] <janimo> ogra, the gfx boot stuff you mean?
[02:41] <Toma-> oic
[02:41] <Keybuk> seb128: reboot I suspect, so just do it when you have a moment and nothing important
[02:41] <Keybuk> it's a "minor"ish bug
[02:41] <janimo> or regular grub splashes
[02:41] <seb128> it's quite annoying :)
[02:41] <ogra> mjg59, yes, i know, but its tied to the lid actions ... so i'd make it configurable as a lid action ... gss has no actions at all ..
[02:41] <ogra> janimo, the latter
[02:42] <janimo> ogra, so they're no longer considered harmful for some boxes?
[02:42] <ogra> janimo, see mvo's last grub upload ...
[02:42] <ogra> janimo, ask sabdfl ;)
[02:42] <janimo> ogra, thanks
[02:42] <Riddell> Kamion: nothing that's worth it yet I think
[02:42] <Toma-> I had an awesome idea today that from grub, the users pseudo desktop would appear and have a loading throbber in the middle, and once its all done, the desktop would take the images place... maybe ill just keep dreaming :)
[02:42] <theCore> does the bootscripts have been updated in Dapper ?
[02:42] <mjg59> ogra: If "Lid action" in g-p-m is defined as "What happens when the lid is closed and you're off AC", how do you describe "Lock screen on lid close"?
[02:42] <mvo> janimo: we want to try it out and see how well it does 
[02:42] <janimo> ogra, is it ok if I go ahead with using the gdm derivative theme alternative already (i.e before edubuntu)
[02:43] <ogra> mjg59, as you just did ...
[02:43] <janimo> mvo, thanks
[02:43] <mjg59> ogra: But then people will think it means "Lock screen when lid is closed and you're off AC"
[02:43] <ogra> mjg59, "Lock screen on lid close" ... not tied to AC or batt ...
[02:43] <mjg59> ogra: But you've previously defined "lid close" as only being relevant when on battery
[02:43] <ogra> not if the other menu items talk about AC or batt
[02:43] <janimo> mvo, which package contains the splash for ubuntu, so I have a model
[02:43] <mjg59> ogra: It would suck as a UI
[02:43] <ogra> hmm
[02:44] <mvo> janimo: ubuntu-artwork, it uses the alternatives system so it's easy to provide a differnt one
[02:44] <theCore> janimo, usplash 
[02:44] <ogra> mjg59, probably the ui should change then ...
[02:44] <janimo> mvo, great xubuntu already has that package for the usplash image
[02:44] <Toma-> is vga16 any good with greyscale?
[02:44] <janimo> theCore, thanks
[02:44] <mjg59> Toma-: You get 16 colours
[02:45] <theCore> janimo, np
[02:45] <mjg59> They can be whatever you want
[02:45] <Toma-> mjg59, ok :(
[02:45] <ogra> mjg59, having a general checkbox "always lock on lid close" or something like that
[02:45] <mvo> janimo: you can't have more than 14 colors
[02:45] <mjg59> You also get 640x400
[02:45] <mjg59> ogra: But then that sounds like unchecking it is "Sometimes lock on lid close"
[02:45] <raphink> mjg59: I'm currently testing Xgl
[02:45] <raphink> and I've got a few issues
[02:45] <raphink> say I'm not able to start gdm or kdm
[02:45] <janimo> mvo, same with usplash ?(iirc that has 16 colors - 4bit png)
[02:45] <ogra> mjg59, "only lock on lid close" ?
[02:46] <Treenaks> ogra: 'Lock on lid clode'
[02:46] <infinity> viviersf: pong.
[02:46] <raphink> argh
[02:46] <theCore> it is impressive what you can do with only 16 colors
[02:46] <mjg59> ogra: That would mean "Don't ever lock unless the lid is closed"
[02:46] <ogra> Treenaks, that brings up the question: who is clode ?
[02:46] <jdub> mjg59: should i be testing/using n-m on atheros?
[02:47] <Treenaks> ogra: some French guy, probably
[02:47] <raphink> mjg59: when I start kdm/gdm with Xgl a
[02:47] <ogra> mjg59, thats evil to discuss with a native speaker :P
[02:47] <mjg59> ogra: Right, as a native speaker, I can't think of any way to disambiguate this
[02:47] <raphink> mjg59: I get a turning wheel over a black screen, then nothing
[02:47] <Toma-> rhgb uses an X server... maybe my dream can come true if i compile rhgb for ubuntu :P~
[02:47] <raphink> 
[02:47] <mjg59> jdub: No idea. Ask Scott or Adam what the situation is with madwifi-ng
[02:48] <jdub> mjg59: ok, ta
[02:48] <mjg59> I've heard nothing since the sprint
[02:48] <jdub> Keybuk: pingalingaling
[02:48] <raphink> mjg59: any idea what that might be?
[02:48] <mjg59> raphink: What hardware?
[02:48] <raphink> mjg59: ATI Radeon 9200
[02:48] <mjg59> None
[02:49] <jdub> mjg59: btw, Xgl sits with thinking cursor before gdm loads on my ati (using fglrx or ati)
[02:49] <Treenaks> raphink: I have the same on fglrx on an x700
[02:49] <raphink> Treenaks: same error?
[02:49] <mjg59> jdub: As in it never goes past that?
[02:49] <jdub> mjg59: yeah
[02:49] <mjg59> jdub: No idea
[02:49] <Treenaks> raphink: I use this .xsession, and the 'normal' /usr/bin/X
[02:49] <Treenaks> raphink: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/8709
[02:49] <raphink> Treenaks: I'm on irssi :s
[02:49] <janimo> Treenaks, do you have ati r300 accelerated on the x700 ?
[02:49] <Keybuk> jdub: 'sup?
[02:49] <Treenaks> raphink: it's crashy, and wobbly gets annoying quickly
[02:49] <raphink> Treenaks: ok
[02:50] <Treenaks> janimo: no, i'm using fglrx
[02:50] <Treenaks> janimo: I have other problems with ati, which I'll debug this weekend
[02:50] <seb128> Keybuk: no log, no log when restarting udev neither
[02:50] <seb128> Keybuk: that's like the rules were not used
[02:50] <janimo> Treenaks, ok. I just get r300 errors in xorg.log and no DRI from the free driver
[02:50] <jdub> Keybuk: n-m + atheros - happy couple now?
[02:51] <Treenaks> janimo: I have that working on a M10 (Radeon 9600 or something)
[02:52] <Keybuk> jdub: no, only madwifi-ng works
[02:52] <Keybuk> seb128: interesting
[02:52] <Keybuk> seb128: don't suppose you could do something like init=/bin/sh ... start loopback, checkroot, mountall ... then do "udevd --daemon", "udevmonitor -e >/some.log &", "udevplug" ?
[02:52] <mjg59> Keybuk: What's the situation with getting madwifi-ng into l-r-m?
[02:53] <mjg59> We need it for hardware support in any case
[02:53] <seb128> Keybuk: I'll do that after distro team meeting or I'll be late for it :)
[02:53] <fabbione> Devel Meeting in -7 
[02:53] <Keybuk> mjg59: nobody came forward to help test it on amd64
[02:53] <Keybuk> so "not for dapper" at this point
[02:53] <Keybuk> upstream have pretty solidly said it won't work there
[02:56] <janimo> pitti, when you have time can you please review xfdesktop, it's the official upstream code with official debian packaging
[02:56] <janimo> as opposed to what we had so far
[02:56] <JaneW> doko,  iwj, lathiat, sivan, Kinnison : ping - meeting in 5 mins in #ubuntu-meeting
[02:56] <pitti> janimo: yes, I scheduled some main inclusion reviews for tomorrow morning
[02:56] <janimo> thank you. it is the last piece of xubuntu
[02:56] <janimo> significant piece that is, still in universe
[02:57] <jdub> ahr
[03:00] <sladen> Keybuk: I always press the hardware mute button on my Thinkpad after turning it on.  It would be quite refreshing to ditch the startup sounds
[03:01] <Keybuk> . o O { ya know, it's almost worth doing udevmonitor around the initial udevplug anyway ... just for debugging log purposes }
[03:01] <mjg59> Keybuk: So no n-m?
[03:01] <sladen> ogra: what I actually want is "Lock if lid is closed for more than NN seconds" (eg. 30).  If I close it to adjust the power cable, I don't want it locked
[03:02] <mjg59> Keybuk: If you can get me an Atheros, I can test on amd64 (and probably get the driver working, assuming that the issue isn't in the HAL)
[03:02] <Keybuk> mjg59: n-m will be supported, but not installed by default
[03:02] <ogra> sladen, thats nothing g-p-m offers yet ...
[03:02] <Keybuk> even if madwifi-ng were in dapper, n-m would still not be in desktop
[03:02] <Keybuk> it's just too fucking unreliable
[03:02] <seb128> Keybuk: why not by default?
[03:02] <seb128> bah :/
[03:02] <Keybuk> because they only appear to have tested it on centrino cards
[03:02] <Keybuk> on almost every, single, other, driver it fucks up
[03:02] <Keybuk> usually *badly*
[03:02] <mjg59> seb128: It can't be in by default if it fails to work on common hardware
[03:02] <mjg59> Keybuk: What are the failures you're seeing?
[03:03] <mjg59> It /is/ tested on a much larger range of hardware than that
[03:03] <seb128> mjg59: my impression was it is working quite ok on most of common cards in fact
[03:03] <Keybuk> mjg59: failure to scan, failure to lock onto networks, failure to manage dhcp properly, getting wedged in stupid states that require killing of n-m
[03:03] <Kinnison> mjg59: My proposal for the lid action stuff is to perform the lock action always (if selected) but to only perform suspend/hibernate in case of battery -- sound okay?
[03:03] <Keybuk> it worked for very few of *us* at the sprint
[03:03] <mjg59> Kinnison: No, that's insane
[03:03] <janimo> does no other distro ship n-m by default?
[03:03] <jdub> janimo: none
[03:03] <Kinnison> mjg59: Hmm
[03:04] <Kinnison> mjg59: My other proposal is that if locking is enabled in g-s-s, you lock on lid closure, and if the user therefore selects 'no action' then it'll still lock
[03:04] <mjg59> Kinnison: The UI element should be consistent. If it has "lid action", everything in that dropdown has to act under the same circumstances
[03:04] <janimo> and the one that suse ships (network applet) does that suck too?
[03:04] <Kinnison> mjg59: making it look as though g-s-s is locking the screen on lid closure
[03:04] <mjg59> Kinnison: Hmm. I suppose, yes.
[03:04] <janimo> not sure if it's called that
[03:04] <jdub> janimo: they ship n-m now 9but yes)
[03:04] <Keybuk> I think we definitely want n-m in main, and maybe even in ship, because when it does work, it's great
[03:04] <Keybuk> and does exactly what it says it should
[03:05] <mjg59> seb128: It's useless on Atheros hardware without madwifi-ng
[03:05] <Keybuk> it's just that when it doesn't work, it requires rather a lot of technical skill to rescue your network connection
[03:05] <sladen> Kinnison: g-p-m is lacking the option to suspend on critical battery, hibernate is bit too much
[03:05] <pitti> Keybuk: can we make it ignore devices in /e/n/interfaces?
[03:05] <mjg59> sladen: No, critical battery is the point where your hardware is telling you that it'll crap out any second
[03:05] <mjg59> sladen: Suspend isn't a sensible option there
[03:05] <janimo> Keybuk, arent't those skills needed anyway if you don;t use n-m? does it make things worse when it fauils?
[03:05] <Keybuk> pitti: it does here, I absolutely promise that it gets uploaded today <g>
[03:05] <Keybuk> honest
[03:06] <pitti> Keybuk: cool, thanks
[03:06] <Kinnison> mjg59: So are we agreed that we'll lock on lid closure if g-s-s has lock enabled, and leave it at that?
[03:06] <Keybuk> janimo: not particularly, and not outside of laptops
[03:06] <mjg59> Kinnison: Yeah
[03:06] <Kinnison> mjg59: thanks. I'm useless at UI so having you sanity check is really useful for me
[03:06] <pitti> Keybuk: then I don't see any problem with putting it into desktop (apart from the fact that it probably should replace the old network applet)
[03:06] <sladen> mjg59: it's a very sensible option.  My Thinkpad will sleep for about 18hours with 5% battery.  More than enough to find a plug!
[03:07] <Keybuk> pitti: it's not an applet, so it's damned hard to replace that
[03:07] <pitti> Keybuk: right, we have a similar problem with the old battstat vs. g-p-m
[03:07] <mjg59> sladen: 5% is not critical battery
[03:07] <sladen> mjg59: (or rather this is precisely how I've operated with my R31 for 2.5years and I like the behaviour;  I know it gives me another 20minutes after the battery gets to zero
[03:08] <Keybuk> pitti: and then I'm worried everyone will wonder what the applet does, when everything under it is disabled
[03:08] <mjg59> sladen: Mine claims that 1% of design capacity is critical
[03:08] <sladen> mjg59: according to g-p-m it is (those are the out of the box settings).  
[03:08] <Keybuk> click ... Wired Network (manually configured) ... Wireless Network (manually configured) ... etc.
[03:08] <mjg59> sladen: Then g-p-m is wrong
[03:08] <mjg59> That's an entirely different bug
[03:08] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, of course it would just rock if n-m would call ifup/ifdown on the interfaces in /e/n/i, but I guess that's too much work?
[03:08] <Keybuk> pitti: I don't see how that would help
[03:09] <seb128> Keybuk: could you make n-m not destroy resolv.conf when using a static config? :)
[03:09] <pitti> Keybuk: well, I could upgrade from breezy and control my already configured eth0/wlan0 without breaking the configuration in /e/n/i
[03:09] <Keybuk> seb128: it doesn't here (cf. promise I'll upload it today <g>)
[03:09] <seb128> nice :)
[03:09] <Keybuk> pitti: but then it'd ignore the wireless_essid rules, etc. that you have configured
[03:09] <pitti> Keybuk: i. e. right now I'm typing sudo ifup eth0 whenever I plug in my eth cable
[03:09] <seb128> Keybuk: btw the /var /tmp fix works just fine :)
[03:10] <pitti> Keybuk: oh, how that?
[03:10] <Keybuk> it's a replacement for ifupdown, making it integrated is kinda against the idea
[03:10] <jdub> Keybuk: mandatory settings :-)
[03:10] <Keybuk> seb128: oh, good
[03:10] <mjg59> pitti: The n-m UI assumes it's entirely under the control of the applet
[03:10] <seb128> Keybuk: and I fixed your hplip upload, you didn't list the patch to 00list :p
[03:10] <pitti> Keybuk: right, that's what I mean with 'too much work'
[03:10] <Keybuk> seb128: doesn't dpatch-edit-patch do that automatically? :p
[03:10] <mjg59> pitti: Trying to remove that assumption destroyes the entire UI
[03:11] <pitti> right
[03:11] <seb128> Keybuk: no, but it should probably :)
[03:11] <Keybuk> gah
[03:11] <Keybuk> thanks
[03:11] <pitti> hmm, then the only other sane option is to just install it for new installations? (not sure how we'll do that, though)
[03:11] <mjg59> Keybuk: Ok. In that case we need to talk about how networking works at some stage
[03:11] <Keybuk> mjg59: we do, yes
[03:11] <mjg59> Keybuk: Since I'd been assuming that we could rely on n-m to bring back interfaces after suspend
[03:11] <Keybuk> "how networking works" is an annoyingly tricky one ... because the nice bits aren't finished enough yet
[03:11] <Keybuk> mjg59: ifdown -a / ifup -a as well should be ok ... as the two are mutually exclusive
[03:12] <mjg59> Keybuk: No, that's not good, since we should restore to the suspended state
[03:12] <mjg59> And right now devices still sometimes come up in a different order over suspend/resume
[03:12] <Keybuk> well, you know what I mean :)  parse ifstate, bring down interfaces and remember them, bring them up again
[03:13] <janimo> infinity, please give back xfdesktop4 if you do that kind of thing. it is MANUALDEPWAIT in LP. thanks
[03:14] <Keybuk> fabbione: quick question ... how do I limit the refresh rate in X ... it's using "75Hz", I only want it to use "72"
[03:14] <fabbione> Keybuk: add VertSync to your monitor section
[03:14] <ogra> Keybuk, reducing hsync vertrefresh
[03:15] <Keybuk> ah, of course
[03:15] <infinity> janimo: Which arch?
[03:15] <janimo> i386 mostly
[03:16] <janimo> I think the others are in dep too
[03:18] <infinity> janimo: given-back...
[03:18] <janimo> infinity, thank you
[03:23] <infinity> janimo: buildd maintenance is a bit bumpy right now (the LP guys are working hard to make things better, mind you), so if you could keep an eye on packages you care about (like the whole xfce stack) and mail me if things seem "not quite right", that'll save me from having to do the same. :/
[03:23] <infinity> janimo: Since you tend to upload about 50 packages at once in massive batches, and they all interdepend, I expect you're going to be in a bit of a tangle right now.
[03:24] <Kamion>  +- mozilla-dev
[03:24] <Kamion>  |  * Reverse Build-Depends:
[03:24] <Kamion>  |   +- enigmail
[03:24] <Kamion>  |   +- enigmail
[03:24] <Kamion> pitti: ^--
[03:24] <Kamion> like I say, dunno if that's real
[03:24] <pitti> Kamion: hm, the new packages built everywhere...
[03:24] <pitti> Kamion: maybe it's looking at SOE packages?
[03:24] <infinity> Kamion: Could be an SCC arch?
[03:24] <fabbione> possibly
[03:24] <janimo> infinity, ok thanks. I think the hardest part is over, I won;t upload so many interdependent packages at once
[03:24] <fabbione> neither sparc or hppa are in the archive
[03:24] <Kamion> no, those particular germinate runs only look at i386
[03:24] <infinity> Oh, hrm.
[03:24] <Kamion> (which is why they aren't quite as reliable as anastacia)
[03:25] <infinity> Odd.  The new enigmail source definitely doesn't build-dep on mozilla-dev
[03:25] <doko> iwj: please could you reenable -fno-strict-aliasing for firefox on amd64? trying to work around some crashes. a test build looks more stable
[03:25] <infinity> enigmail-mailnews does, but it should be heading to universe.
[03:26] <Kamion> mozilla-thunderbird-enigmail's in the supported seed
[03:26] <Kamion> which comes from the enigmail source
[03:26] <pitti> that should be fine
[03:26] <fabbione> Diziet: what doko said for sparc too please.
[03:27] <infinity> Kamion: And the enigmail source no longer build-depends on mozilla-dev...
[03:27] <Kamion> let me look at this post-meeting
[03:28] <seb128> Diziet: do you have some standard reply for firefox bug? Like getting a backtrace is standard gdb use, or is there some variable to set or instructions specific to it?
[03:28] <janimo> Kamion, are you doing promotions to main?if so when is a good time to ping you about the xfce lot?
[03:28] <seb128> Diziet: I would sometime puts the useless bug needinfo while assigning them but I'm not sure of what kind of details are useful for it
[03:29] <Kamion> janimo: after we have anastacia again so that I don't break stuff
[03:29] <Keybuk> mjg59, infinity: random ... with madwifi-ng, can I wlanconfig ath1 up, and have that locked onto a different wireless network to ath0? :p
[03:29] <Keybuk> and route/forward between them? :p
[03:30] <infinity> Keybuk: I have no idea.  Maybe?
[03:30] <pitti> Kamion: btw, today's ppc install and live CDs work fine
[03:30] <infinity> Keybuk: I have no ath hardware in my hands anymore.
[03:31] <pitti> Kamion: will test amd64 later today, too
[03:31] <janimo> mvo, does language selector have a kubuntu equivalent? 
[03:31] <Riddell> janimo: no
[03:31] <infinity> Keybuk: I also got a lot of "doesn't work for me, EEK, IT'S BROKEN" reports on madwifi-ng (and a lot of users that use it on amd64, apparently), so unless we're prepared to get in elbow deep and fix a mess of bugs, I think we're stuck with madwifi-old for dapper...
[03:32] <janimo> Riddell, does kubuntu need one though?
[03:32] <mvo> janimo: I *think* it has nothing gnome specific in it, you could use it too
[03:32] <janimo> mvo, yes I saw it is gtk only :)
[03:32] <Keybuk> infinity: agree (see above)  I think madwifi-ng has missed the dapper boat
[03:32] <Riddell> janimo: it would certainly be great to get one of course
[03:32] <infinity> Keybuk: Or I could mangle things and ship both, with some hackery, like we do with the nvidia binary stuff.
[03:32] <Keybuk> unless we can package it as an alternate?
[03:32] <janimo> mvo, as in dependencies, but is it looking for gnome langpacks only or anything lang related?
[03:32] <Keybuk> yeah, I'd like to do that if possible, with the old madwifi as the default
[03:32] <mvo> Riddell: it should be easy to port
[03:32] <infinity> Keybuk: I'll look into it.
[03:33] <Riddell> janimo: there you go, easy, fancy doing it? :)
[03:33] <mvo> janimo: it looks for everything, so it will work for kde as well
[03:33] <janimo> Riddell, I might neved done qt so far so it would be cool :)
[03:33] <Kamion> pitti: great, thanks
[03:33] <doko> Kamion: talked with Riddell, please remove knetworkconf and sanekonsole
[03:33] <janimo> mvo, good, as I am putting it in xubuntu-desktop
[03:34] <Kamion> doko: have you/Riddell checked for reverse-dependencies? the archive tools to do that check don't work yet
[03:34] <Kamion> infinity: oh, haha
[03:34] <Kamion> "$HOME/germinate/germinate.py" -m http://jackass/ -s "$NAME" -d "$DIST" ${COMPONENTS:+-c "$COMPONENTS"} > _germinate_output
[03:34] <Kamion> spot the mistake
[03:35] <janimo> mvo, I was scared for a while of looking at you bzr archives since you have 'classic'  archive names ;)
[03:35] <mvo> Riddell: I would do it myself if you could give me a tour to pyqt
[03:35] <infinity> Kamion: Whoops. :)
[03:35] <mvo> janimo: old habbits die hard :)
[03:35] <doko> Kamion: none, knetworkconf is now built from kdeadmin, so its just a source removal
[03:36] <Riddell> Kamion: both packages are unused, sanekonsole obsolete by kde 3.5 and knetworkconf source by kdeadmin
[03:36] <Riddell> Kamion: also lipstik source package can be removed (now built from kde-style-liptick)
[03:38] <Kamion> sanekonsole | 0.2-0ubuntu4 |        dapper | amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[03:38] <Kamion> sanekonsole | 0.2-0ubuntu5 |        dapper | source
[03:38] <Kamion> so all the binaries there should die too?
[03:38] <Riddell> Kamion: yes
[03:39] <Kamion> should konsole perhaps conflict/replace it?
[03:39] <Kamion> or provide?
[03:40] <Riddell> Kamion: it doesn't include any of the same files (same code right enough)
[03:40] <doko> Kamion: more removal training ;)  cyrus22-imapd (universe), including binaries. new packages have new names (maybe sit in NEW)
[03:40] <Riddell> it was only a temporary package while kde 3.4 konsole didn't have the functionality needed
[03:40] <infinity> seb128: My goofy progress bars in thunderbird magically fixed themselves.  I assume that was due to your gtk2-engines-* upload?
[03:41] <seb128> infinity: could be yep, as said it was either a gtk or a theme issue .. 
[03:41] <seb128> good to know it's fixed :)
[03:41] <infinity> seb128: Do you want me to reassign the bug so you have a mental placeholder for it (especially if you update gtk2-engines again and it comes back...), or just close it?
[03:43] <seb128> infinity: reassign to gtk2-engines please, and set the severity to minor, thank you
[03:43] <infinity> seb128: Will do.
[03:43] <seb128> cool
[03:43] <infinity> seb128: I'll attach my screenshot as a reminder of the goofiness.
[03:43] <seb128> k
[03:45] <Kamion> Riddell: all yours done
[03:46] <Kamion> doko: just processing the stuff in NEW then I'll do your removals
[03:50] <alexr> Mithrandir: are you there?
[03:50] <Kamion> doko: done
[03:52] <Kamion> seb128: any idea why firefox doesn't appear in the top panel on a fresh install any more?
[03:52] <Mithrandir> alexr: yes
[03:52] <alexr> I tried squashfs last night.
[03:52] <Kamion> janimo: you might want to look at "Subject: [dapper]  busted!" on ubuntu-users if you haven't already
[03:52] <seb128> Kamion: no, but pitti mentionned that already for liveCD (it was working fine for install when he did), I'll give it a try soon ... the profile didn't change so it's weird
[03:53] <janimo> Kamion, I haven;t thanks
[03:53] <Kamion> janimo: looks like a missing Replaces
[03:53] <alexr> Mithrandir: Do I understand it correctly that I need to mount and extract the data from it, then chroot to this new dir, add whatever, and then mksquashfs and pack things up?
[03:53] <Kamion> seb128: anything I can investigate for you here?
[03:53] <Mithrandir> alexr: sounds right.
[03:54] <seb128> Kamion: do you have a gconf /apps/panel/default_setup/objects/firefox_launcher ?
[03:54] <alexr> Mithrandir: Now, with breezy and cloop, one needed to do some tricks. E.g. once you delete something from the cloop filesystem, you need to clean the deleted blocks.
[03:54] <seb128> browse it with gconf-editor, you can search for a key with firefox as value
[03:55] <alexr> Mithrandir: I don't need to do anything like this now, do I?
[03:55] <alexr> Mithrandir: because I have normal dir and not mounted fs>
[03:55] <Mithrandir> alexr: no, no tricks like that any more.
[03:56] <alexr> Super!
[03:56] <alexr> OK, what's with the isolinux -- is everything the same there as it was last time around?
[03:56] <alexr> E.g. splash, boot sector, etc?
[03:57] <Mithrandir> if you just take the isolinux files which are on the cd already, you should be fine.
[03:57] <Mithrandir> if you use the old stuff, just make sure to pass boot=casper to use casper
[03:57] <alexr> Mithrandir: path boot=casper to mkisofs?
[03:57] <redisdead> hello
[03:58] <Mithrandir> alexr: no, on the isolinux command line
[03:58] <Kamion> seb128: no, only browser_launcher
[03:58] <Kamion> which points to epiphany
[03:58] <redisdead> I think there is a broken dependency in dapper : linux-2.6.15-* should depend from udev
[03:58] <Mithrandir> alexr: just look at the current isolinux.cfg
[03:58] <alexr> Will do, thanks!
[03:59] <Kamion> only keys with firefox in the value are /desktop/gnome/url-handlers/{http,https}/command
[03:59] <alexr> Mithrandir: all in all, looks like it's easier to modify the LiveCD now.
[03:59] <alexr> Mithrandir: if only you have suaqshfs-capable kernel :-)
[03:59] <pitti> Kamion, seb128: confirmed, I do get a ffox icon in a fresh ppc install; it's just missing in the live session
[04:00] <Mithrandir> alexr: yes, it should be much easier.  You need both squashfs and unionfs in the kernel, though.
[04:00] <alexr> Mithrandir: why unionfs?
[04:01] <seb128> Kamion: is that a desktop or a laptop ?
[04:01] <Kamion> seb128: vmware
[04:01] <Mithrandir> alexr: because you need a writable file system on top of the read only fs.
[04:01] <Kamion> on a desktop
[04:01] <seb128> Kamion: so desktop according to laptop-detect?
[04:01] <alexr> Mithrandir: I didn't have unionfs, and here's what I did last night:
[04:01] <Mithrandir> alexr: earlier, you got that by having a writable block device and devmapper snapshots.  Now you get it through having a writable file system on top of a read-only fs.
[04:02] <Kamion> laptop-detect exits 1, so yes
[04:02] <alexr> Mithrandir: (1) mount squashfs (2) rsync it to a regular directory (3) modify (4) mksquashfs
[04:02] <Kamion> Mithrandir: still no /usr/sbin in my default $PATH
[04:03] <Mithrandir> alexr: correct.
[04:03] <alexr> Mithrandir: So no unionfs?
[04:03] <seb128> Kamion: HOME=/root sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source=`gconftool-2 --get-default-source` --load /usr/share/gconf/schemas/panel-default-setup.entries
[04:03] <seb128> Kamion: does that makes any difference to the default profile?
[04:03] <alexr> Mithrandir: or would I not have to rsync and then mksquashfs if I had unionfs?
[04:03] <Mithrandir> alexr: unionfs is used by the live kernel and set up as part of the boot process.
[04:03] <seb128> Kamion: you may need to create a new user to try
[04:03] <alexr> I see. So I don't need it to add packages.
[04:04] <seb128> or rm -rf ~/.gconf if that's a stock install and don't care about it and restart the panel
[04:04] <Mithrandir> alexr: correct, as long as you use the default kernel you don't have to worry.
[04:04] <alexr> Mithrandir: It's only needed for live system, not for my system.
[04:04] <Mithrandir> alexr: it'll be a lot easier to customise the live cd a little bit later in the cycle.
[04:04] <Mithrandir> correct.
[04:04] <alexr> Mithrandir: here's the thing -- I run Debian, not ubuntu.
[04:04] <alexr> Mithrandir: so my kernel is not ubuntu default.
[04:04] <alexr> Mithrandir: but last time it worked just fine.
[04:04] <Mithrandir> alexr: I'm talking about the kernel on the live cd, not the kernel on your running system
[04:05] <alexr> Mithrandir: Got you, thanks.
[04:05] <Mithrandir> Kamion: investigating
[04:05] <Kamion> seb128: created test user, was hosed ("Could not load icon" "Details: Icon 'gnome-logout' not found")
[04:05] <Kamion> (and Icon 'evolution')
[04:05] <Kamion> still no firefox icon
[04:05] <Keybuk> BenC: ping?
[04:06] <BenC> Keybuk: pong
[04:06] <seb128> Kamion: interesting ... I've an ideea, I'll investigate and let you know in a couple of min
[04:06] <Kyral> Whoever posted those Xgl instructions on -devel-announce, thanks.
[04:07] <Kamion> seb128: also did rm -rf ~/.gconf, logged out, logged in, nope
[04:07] <alexr> Mithrandir: looking at the isolinux.cfg: GFXBOOT bootlogo
[04:07] <seb128> Kamion: I bet if you do that with /usr/share/gconf/schemas/panel-default-setup-laptop.entries you have it?
[04:07] <alexr> Mithrandir: what is bootlogo and how does one tweak it?
[04:08] <Kamion> alexr: that comes from gfxboot-theme-ubuntu
[04:08] <seb128> Kamion: same line as before but with -laptop
[04:08] <alexr> Kamion: OK, thanks
[04:08] <Riddell> mdz: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/adept-notifier.png
[04:08] <seb128> (should add an extra battstat tto)
[04:08] <seb128> too
[04:08] <Keybuk> BenC: so, what do you know about PCI Express, specifically the kernels implementation of it
[04:08] <Keybuk> I have a box here, and it looks rather like everything on that bus just shows up on the PCI bus
[04:08] <BenC> Keybuk: pretty much zero
[04:09] <Kamion> seb128: hang on, when I did rm -rf ~/.gconf the panel hung, I had to ctrl-alt-bksp to get out, and now my desktop is fucked and won't start up properly
[04:09] <Keybuk> /sys/bus/pci_express/devices contains a bunch of symlinks (all with the same two filenames - which is rather amusing) which all point to devices on the PCI bus
[04:09] <Keybuk> ah, do you know who would?
[04:09] <BenC> as far as I know, the pci subsystem just tries to make it work like other PCI devices
[04:09] <alexr> Mithrandir, Kamion: thanks! See you later.
[04:09] <Mithrandir> alexr: have fun
[04:09] <Keybuk> ok, that sounds like what I'm seeing
[04:09] <Keybuk> I want to make sure we don't suddenly get bitten in dapper when in two years time, everything has PCI Express, and suddenly nobody's IDE/SATA/SCSI/etc. drivers get loaded <g>
[04:10] <ogra> Kamion, wouldnt reboot be easier ? 
[04:10] <Kamion> ogra: shrug
[04:10] <BenC> Keybuk: are the PCI Expresse devices working?
[04:10] <ogra> heh
[04:10] <Keybuk> BenC: I assume so, they include the video card and stuff :)
[04:10] <BenC> or are all those devices just regular PCI devices on a PCI-E bus?
[04:10] <Keybuk> they're definitely PCI-E devices
[04:10] <BenC> ok, yeah, I think we are ok
[04:10] <Keybuk> X can see the video card and use it
[04:10] <Mithrandir> Kamion: what do your /etc/environment look like?
[04:10] <Kamion> Mithrandir: no PATH
[04:11] <Keybuk> I think the ethernet and sound cards are also PCI-E
[04:11] <Mithrandir> Kamion: and your live fs is not ancient?
[04:11] <Keybuk> (they're on 0000:05)
[04:11] <Keybuk> and linux seems happy with box
[04:11] <Kamion> Mithrandir: this is a fresh install not a live CD
[04:12] <Keybuk> uh, with both
[04:12] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ah, ok.  d-i install, not espresso?
[04:12] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yes
[04:12] <Kamion> today's daily install CD
[04:12] <infinity> Keybuk / BenC: The kernel handled PCI express internally and exposes it as PCI with extensions.
[04:12] <Kamion> seb128: yes, with -laptop I get a firefox icon
[04:12] <mdz> Riddell: which icon activates it?  the /!\ ?
[04:12] <BenC> infinity: yeah, that's what I figured
[04:13] <BenC> just like AGP
[04:13] <Keybuk> infinity: what symlinks do you get in /sys/bus/pci_express/devices ?
[04:13] <infinity> Keybuk / BenC: For most cases, it "Just Works", for cases where you might want somehting fancy (like wankloads of bandwidth to a video card), you can either address it as "plain old slow PCI", or write to it as a scary fast PCI express device.
[04:13] <Riddell> mdz: how do you mean?  it shows that icon when there's updates, clicking on it brings up the adept-updater tool
[04:14] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I note that your && || precedence is screwy in libpam-modules, although that wouldn't cause this bug
[04:14] <seb128> Kamion: could you edit /usr/share/gconf/schemas/panel-default-setup.entries, replace epiphany.desktop by firefox.desktop and try again the first variant?
[04:14] <infinity> Keybuk: pcie0[023]  -> ../../../devices/pci...
[04:14] <Kamion> should be ... && (... || ...) not ... && ... || ...
[04:14] <seb128> Kamion: I think that this changed has been dropped by mistake
[04:14] <Keybuk> infinity: do you get multiples of each filename?
[04:14] <infinity> Keybuk: Yes.
[04:14] <Keybuk> heh, me too
[04:15] <Keybuk> BenC: don't suppose you could tickle someone into fixing that?
[04:15] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: hm, still the wrong resolution on amd64/live, do you want to debug this with me?
[04:15] <Keybuk> it makes readdir/readlink loops damned hard <g>
[04:15] <BenC> Keybuk: can you send me a ls -l of the files in question?
[04:15] <Mithrandir> pitti_live: does sudo ddcprobe give you anything useful?
[04:15] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: yes, it looks pretty nice, I'll /msg
[04:16] <Keybuk> pasted to -kernel
[04:16] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: whoops, this user is not reg'ed, did you get /msg?
[04:16] <Mithrandir> pitti_live: yes, I got it
[04:17] <Kamion> Mithrandir: hmm, I have a feeling d-i might be clobbering /etc/environment
[04:17] <seb128> Diziet: did you read my question before?
[04:17] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I can't see anything wrong in my code, for once, so I suspect so. :-/
[04:17] <Kamion> because 'sudo /var/lib/dpkg/info/libpam-modules.postinst configure ""' makes it work
[04:19] <Kamion> seb128: BTW any reason why panel-default-setup-laptop.entries uses file:///usr/share/applications/*.desktop while panel-default-setup.entries just uses *.desktop?
[04:20] <Kamion> seb128: yes, works after that change, thanks
[04:21] <seb128> Kamion: for the path no, -laptop is a copy of the .entries for some time ago and we didn't merge some cosmetic change like that
[04:21] <seb128> I'll fix the epiphany/firefox now
[04:21] <Kamion> thanks
[04:22] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah, it's localechooser's fault, fixing now
[04:22] <Mithrandir> Kamion: thanks.
[04:23] <Kamion> hm, damn, will need a d-i build
[04:30] <carlos> pitti: hi
[04:30] <pitti_live> carlos: hey
[04:30] <carlos> pitti_live: Could you give me an URL to download your pkgstriptranslation updated packages?
[04:30] <seb128> Kamion: gnome-panel fixed version uploaded
[04:31] <carlos> pitti_live: celso and I are going to test the new soyuz version and need it to test the Rosetta integration
[04:31] <Riddell> Kamion: I should start testing CDs for flight 4 now yes?
[04:31] <Kamion> Mithrandir: could you push your casper trunk branch please?
[04:31] <Kamion> Mithrandir: have a bug to fix :-/
[04:31] <Kamion> Riddell: yeah
[04:31] <pitti_live> Kamion: amd64/live works well, btw
[04:31] <Kamion> although I think I'll be respinning, but you might as well see if there are any issues we haven't found yet
[04:31] <Kamion> seb128: thans
[04:31] <Kamion> +k DAMN eyboard
[04:31] <seb128> np
[04:31] <seb128> :)
[04:31] <pitti_live> carlos: I didn't put them online so far, will do ASAP
[04:32] <pitti_live> carlos: 20 minutes?
[04:32] <Mithrandir> Kamion: pushed.
[04:32] <Mithrandir> (I thought I did so this morning?)
[04:32] <carlos> pitti_live: we have 1 hour until celso is back, so it's ok
[04:33] <Kamion> Mithrandir: hm, changelog still says UNRELEASED
[04:33] <Kamion> oh, no, pulled again, I think my HTTP proxy is sucking again
[04:34] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ahkay.
[04:34] <Keybuk> that's weird
[04:35] <Keybuk> apt-get update was successfull, but half the lists were missing and/or incomplete
[04:35] <Keybuk> did I hit the archive at a bad time?
[04:35] <Kamion> Mithrandir: then if you could merge/upload http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/casper/espresso-desktop again I'd be grateful
[04:35] <seb128> Kamion: I've planned to follow the gnome-vfs2 binary split from Debian (breaks circular Depends on provide extra debug stuff), better to do that after flight4, right?
[04:35] <Kamion> seb128: yeah, if you could wait - hopefully shouldn't be long
[04:35] <seb128> there is no hurry at all, I'll wait for after flight4
[04:35] <Kamion> Keybuk: the publisher just finished, so I guess it's possible
[04:36] <Keybuk> Kamion: I didn't think the archive was supposed to *have* bad times
[04:36] <Keybuk> Kinnison: launchpad publisher moves the new packages files into place by writing them elsewhere and rename()ing over the top, right?
[04:36] <Keybuk> (and not something silly like just writing the file over the top a chunk at a time)
[04:36] <Mithrandir> Kamion: just merge and upload?
[04:36] <Kinnison> Keybuk: essentially yes
[04:36] <doko> Kamion: please demote libstdc++6-dev and g++-3.4 to universe
[04:36] <Keybuk> "essentially" ?
[04:36] <Kinnison> Keybuk: we write an entire new dists/ tree which we replace over the top
[04:37] <infinity> Which does allow a tiny window of "bad", but not much...
[04:37] <Keybuk> how do you replace it over the top?
[04:37] <Kamion> Keybuk: launchpad publisher does but archive.ubuntu.com is still a mirror
[04:37] <Keybuk> Kamion: ah, true
[04:37] <Kamion> Keybuk: mv dists dists.old; mv dists.new dists; rm -rf dists.old
[04:37] <Keybuk> heh
[04:38] <Kamion> so there's a brief race with no dists, but only buildds care
[04:38] <elmo> the archive uses --delay-updates, it's essential the same thing
[04:38] <Kamion> still a window when rsync is in the middle of updating though
[04:38] <Kamion> Keybuk could have caught that
[04:38] <mdz> seb128: copy/paste behaviour in gnome-terminal seems to have changed
[04:39] <mdz> seb128: I now get different things with shift+insert vs. middle-click
[04:39] <seb128> mdz: shit-insert bug?
[04:39] <Keybuk> is that atomic as in "boom" ?
[04:39] <mdz> seb128: oh, just a bug? good
[04:39] <seb128> s/shit/shift
[04:39] <seb128> yep
[04:39] <ogra> lol
[04:39] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I'm ready for you now ...
[04:39] <ogra> hmm, my DSL seems to be back ... :)
[04:40] <Kamion> gar, I wish screensavers didn't kick in in vmware
[04:40] <Kamion> it makes my host machine totally unusable for tens of seconds while vmware figures out how to stop the screensaver
[04:41] <seb128> mdz: not clear if that's a bug: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=123844
[04:41] <Ubugtu> gnome2 bug 123844 in VteTerminal "Select after copy overwrites clipboard contents" [Enhancement,Reopened]  
[04:41] <ogra> Kamion, hmm, i dont see a solution for that ... users might actually want screensavers in vmware
[04:41] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah, if you could
[04:41] <mdz> seb128: IT IS A BUG ;-)
[04:41] <seb128> mdz: basically "Shift+Insert pastes CLIPBOARD" (coherent with GNOME) and "Ctrl+Shift+Insert paste PRIMARY"
[04:41] <Kamion> ogra: unconvinced, but up to you I guess
[04:42] <Kamion> if there's a way to make it non-GL screensavers only, that would help
[04:42] <dholbach> seb128: Treenaks filed it in launchpad as well.
[04:42] <seb128> dholbach: I know, that's the upstream bug you pointed from launchpad
[04:42] <Kamion> I'm not entirely sure it's GL screensavers that make it slow as molasses but it seems like a fair guess
[04:42] <mdz> seb128: whatever, so long as there is a checkbox for it so that it can act like xterm
[04:42] <ogra> Kamion, hmm ... hard to do with gnome-screensaver alone ... thats why the hacks are in two different packages ...
[04:42] <seb128> mdz: yeah, they are discussed a gconf key or an option for that
[04:43] <mdz> ctrl+shift+insert is very hard to type
[04:43] <Fitzsimmons> it is?
[04:43] <Mithrandir> Kamion: done
[04:44] <pitti_live> mdz: on the kinesis? :)
[04:44] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I'm on my way out the door, tomorrow instead?
[04:44] <Keybuk> seb128: btw, is there any particular reason why we still don't have an "OK" button on the gdm theme?
[04:44] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: sure
[04:44] <mdz> pitti_live: yes
[04:45] <seb128> Keybuk: artwork is jdub's is a good reason? :)
[04:45] <mdz> I need the foot pedal
[04:45] <Keybuk> seb128: not particularly ... jdub: can we put one on there please
[04:45] <seb128> Keybuk: we said we would put one, dunno what jdub has planned to change for dapper and when
[04:45] <Keybuk> (I've just had to explain for the dozenth time to a new user that they can just press the Enter key -- it seems that only power users ever think of that)
[04:47] <Keybuk> it seems that Enter usually does something dangerous in Windows, like make the dialog box vanish
[04:47] <mdz> mjg59: did something happen to make laptop-mode less scary?
[04:47] <Keybuk> this user did try Tab, but that doesn't do anything
[04:47] <seb128> Keybuk: tab is supposed to work for some time, weird
[04:48] <seb128> and it does work for me
[04:48] <Keybuk> they could have been lying ;)
[04:48] <seb128> (just tried)
[04:48] <seb128> gdm (2.8.0.0-0ubuntu1) breezy; urgency=low
[04:48] <Keybuk> we do need a big clickable button there though
[04:48] <seb128>     - <Tab> validate the username (Ubuntu: #9777).
[04:48] <Keybuk> hmm, does it work on the password field too?
[04:48] <seb128> yep
[04:49] <mjg59> mdz: What I discussed in that email
[04:49] <Keybuk> probably just the user lying then
[04:49] <seb128> or using hoary?
[04:49] <Keybuk> hmm, could be hoary actually
[04:49] <Keybuk> I don't remember sending them breezy CDs
[04:49] <Kamion> Mithrandir: thanks
[04:49] <Keybuk> I'll have to ask next time
[04:49] <pitti> Kamion: the keyboard selector in the installer gfxboot has no effect; known or do you want a bug report?
[04:50] <Keybuk> I just noticed the button still wasn't there after installing quest as well
[04:50] <Kamion> pitti: that's the kbd-chooser preseeding breakage that Mithrandir and I were discussing this morning
[04:50] <Kamion> there's no bug report about it yet though AFAIK, feel free to file one so we remember
[04:50] <pitti> ok, thanks
[04:52] <mdz> mjg59: that email?  I was just reading dapper-changes
[04:53] <mjg59> mdz: Ah - ubuntu-devel
[04:53] <mjg59> mdz: Basically (since I've never been able to reproduce this), I'm working on a hunch
[04:53] <tseng> Kamion: have a minute? I am pretty stuck on where to go from here with mono ppc
[04:54] <mjg59> mdz: My /guess/ is that the issue is caused by the APM command being sent at around the same time as the BIOS reduces the spin speed on the CD drive
[04:54] <mjg59> mdz: Which would then result in the IDE bus hanging
[04:54] <tseng> Kamion: we've been highly unsuccessful in reproducing it on anything outside the canonical data center
[04:54] <Kamion> tseng: did anyone analyse the traces I sent?
[04:54] <tseng> Kamion: yes
[04:54] <Kamion> I'm fairly sure it just needs a multi-processor machine ...
[04:54] <tseng> Kamion: "it cant possibly crash there"
[04:55] <Kamion> it STINKS of a threading race
[04:55] <mjg59> mdz: So for now I've just delayed the sending of those commands
[04:55] <tseng> slomo: feel free to chime in re: multiprocessor machine
[04:55] <tseng> Kamion: there is a debian buildd with dual g4
[04:55] <tseng> slomo_ rather.
[04:56] <Kamion> IIRC BenC's G5 is dual, might be worth asking him when he reappears
[04:56] <tseng> mm that is a good lead
[04:56] <Kamion> I might be wrong there
[04:56] <Kamion> yes, voltaire.debian.org is a dual G4
[04:56] <slomo_> when will he be back?
[04:56] <Kamion> reasonable US working hours I assume
[04:56] <tseng> i am working in the us, reasonably :)
[04:57] <Kamion> voltaire doesn't seem to have user chroots though
[04:57] <slomo_> voltaire built mono fine
[04:57] <Kamion> dunno then, /me <- not BenC's keeper ;)
[04:57] <slomo_> http://buildd.debian.org/fetch.php?&pkg=mono&ver=1.1.13.1-1&arch=powerpc&stamp=1137306831&file=log&as=raw
[04:57] <Kamion> I'm more than happy to carry out further debugging
[04:58] <Kamion> or if there's a way to make mono only use one processor, perhaps that would be a workaround
[04:58] <tseng> the problem is we dont need to waste all your time on it
[04:58] <Kamion> further debugging> under instructions that is, I don't have time to go off on my own
[04:58] <tseng> and the trace left no obvious lead
[04:58] <Amaranth> isn't there a way to set processor affinity or whatever it's called in linux?
[04:58] <Kamion> at this point I'd be happy if there were some big-hammer workaround
[04:58] <slomo_> Kamion: there's no way to do it afaik... is there a utility to bind a process to one cpu?
[04:59] <tseng> binary upload has always been a sufficient hammer
[04:59] <tseng> its tons easier to find a box that does build mono than one that doesnt
[04:59] <Kamion> that one's not happening ...
[04:59] <Kamion> even less likely to happen with soyuz than it was with katie
[05:00] <slomo_> if there's a way to bind a process to one cpu i guess we could hack the build system of mono to do it
[05:00] <Kamion> sched_setaffinity(2)?
[05:00] <Kamion> can't see a handy user command for it
[05:00] <Kamion> would need testing on davis first though
[05:02] <Diziet> seb128: Thanks for your effort.  I'm dreaming up a wiki page that will have these kind of questions answered; it'll be done in a bit.
[05:04] <slomo_> Kaloz: thanks... hm, shouldn't be too hard to add a hack for this in mono for ppc... tseng can you take a look at it? should be only one position where this function needs to be called... in main() of the JIT probably
[05:05] <slomo_> probably mono/mini/main.c
[05:05] <tseng> wait a second, do you remember if it dies on internal mono or the bootstrapped version
[05:05] <tseng> ok, mini
[05:06] <tseng> haha
[05:06] <tseng> main (int argc, char* argv[] )
[05:06] <tseng> { return mono_main (argc, argv);
[05:06] <tseng> }
[05:06] <slomo_> there is no internal JIT, only an internal mcs which is cli
[05:06] <slomo_> yes... nice thing ;)
[05:06] <tseng> easy enough
[05:06] <slomo_> just add it before and give it Kamion to test on davis
[05:07] <tseng> when he said  (2) did that mean the literal argument
[05:07] <slomo_> but please... use dpatch's ability to apply patches only on one architecture or do it in rules via sed or something ;)
[05:07] <slomo_> http://www.die.net/doc/linux/man/man2/sched_setaffinity.2.html
[05:07] <Kamion> no that's standard notation for man page sections
[05:07] <tseng> yeah that was the other choice
[05:07] <Kamion> foo(2) => man page foo in section 2
[05:07] <Kamion> i.e. system call
[05:07] <slomo_> man $section $page iirc
[05:07] <tseng> but
[05:07] <Kamion> yes
[05:08] <tseng> No manual entry for sched_setaffinity in section 2
[05:08] <Kamion> install manpages-dev
[05:08] <tseng> danke
[05:08] <slomo_> i hope there's no forking in there...
[05:09] <slomo_> but doesn't look like it from a fast look in mono_main()...
[05:10] <Keybuk> ooh, nice gtk/X boog ... it thinks my "Pause" key is "Print" and my "Print" key is "Pause"
[05:10] <tseng> mm it wants the pid
[05:10] <slomo_> tseng: 0 for current process
[05:10] <ogra> Keybuk, thats just wrongly printed on your keyboard :P
[05:10] <tseng> handy
[05:10] <slomo_> tseng: or get_pid()
[05:11] <Kamion> getpid()
[05:12] <Kamion> #include <sched.h> ... { unsigned long mask = 1; sched_setaffinity(0, sizeof(mask), &mask); }
[05:12] <elmo> would hoary have allowed to login if you don't own ~/.ICEAuthority ?
[05:12] <ogra> nope
[05:13] <ogra> we had a ton of bugs about that ... k3b rewrites it as root on first start
[05:13] <tseng> Kamion: ive rolled a patch here for safekeeping, do you need to me roll the source package
[05:13] <ogra> (k3bsetup to be precise)
[05:13] <tseng> Kamion: or can you just throw that in a chroot and test?
[05:13] <tseng> probably just a ./configure; make will do
[05:13] <elmo> is it possible mvo's upgrade tool does so too?
[05:14] <ogra> hmm ... good question 
[05:14] <Kamion> tseng: no, just mail me it
[05:15] <tseng> Kamion: np
[05:15] <ogra> elmo, but it saw a good amount of community testing already, i guess someone would have noted it
[05:15] <elmo> ogra: I guess so
[05:15] <slomo_> tseng: thanks... let's hope it works :)
[05:21] <Keybuk> brb
[05:25] <carlos> pitti: hi, do you have that package ready?
[05:26] <pitti> carlos: sorry, emergency, later
[05:26] <carlos> ok
[05:26] <Keybuk> weird, I couldn't get ssh X forwarding to do the right thing
[05:26] <Keybuk> oh well, vnc works :)
[05:26] <seb128> Keybuk: udev.log on chinstrap for you
[05:29] <seb128> Keybuk: 
[05:29] <seb128> UEVENT[1140106469.632521]  add@/class/sound/controlC0
[05:29] <seb128> ...
[05:29] <seb128> UEVENT[1140106469.632531]  add@/class/sound/mixer
[05:30] <seb128> so right, controlC0 is added before the mixer
[05:30] <Keybuk> I wonder whether that's important
[05:30] <ogra> Keybuk, crimsun could tell 
[05:31] <seb128> $ cat /etc/udev/rules.d/85-alsa.rules
[05:31] <seb128> KERNEL=="controlC[0-7] ", ACTION=="add", RUN+="ls /dev/snd >> /var/run/snd.log"
[05:31] <seb128> KERNEL=="controlC[0-7] ", ACTION=="add", RUN+="/etc/init.d/alsa-utils start %n"
[05:31] <seb128> Keybuk: and I've no /var/run/snd.log
[05:31] <Keybuk> oh, you won't have ... sh -c ' ... ' around it ;)
[05:32] <Keybuk> sorry, should have made that a bit more clear
[05:34] <seb128> lemme try again :)
[05:34] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I don't see any casper upload from you?
[05:36] <tseng> Kamion: am i right that davis has 64 bit kernel 32 bit user?
[05:37] <Kamion> tseng: yes
[05:37] <tseng> Kamion: and at one point it was 32/32?
[05:37] <tseng> Kamion: (when we could actually build mono)
[05:38] <Kamion> tseng: er, might've been, elmo would know
[05:38] <tseng> also, how much change of someone getting a chroot
[05:38] <seb128> bah, no change
[05:38] <seb128> imho it's not runned
[05:38] <Kamion> I think it's impossible for non-employees I'm afraid
[05:39] <Kamion> or at least deeply contrary to the datacentre security policy
[05:39] <Keybuk> UDEV  [1140106470.218685]  add@/class/sound/controlC0
[05:39] <Keybuk> so udev is processing it
[05:40] <seb128> but it seems it doesn't run 85-alsa
[05:40] <Keybuk> wonder why I just put [0-7]  in there
[05:40] <Keybuk> seb128: add a different rule to the top?  maybe just RUN+="/bin/touch /var/run/YES_I_RAN"
[05:41] <seb128> KERNEL=="controlC[0-7] ", ACTION=="add", RUN+="/bin/touch /var/run/YES_I_RAN" ?
[05:41] <seb128> or just the RUN part?
[05:41] <sladen> I make some space, then haha, it tells me it's now 95% full.  stupid program
[05:41] <Keybuk> both, with different filenames
[05:42] <seb128> k, brb
[05:42] <slomo_> Kamion: can you also try with only this patch applied: http://primates.ximian.com/~lupus/ppc-atomic-barrier.diff  ?
[05:43] <Kamion> slomo_: looks promising, will do once this build finishes
[05:43] <slomo_> Kamion: so it works with that setaffinity patch? cool... at least a known workaround now...
[05:44] <Kamion> slomo_: don't know yet, hasn't finished
[05:44] <Kamion> and in any case this tree still has my debugging hacks in it, whoops; might build anyway
[05:44] <tseng> Kamion: i mailed you a second patch from upstream
[05:45] <slomo_> tseng: i've already given him the url some seconds ago ;)
[05:45] <tseng> haha "oh"
[05:49] <Kamion> whaddaya know, setaffinity worked
[05:49] <Kamion> trying atomic-barrier in a clean tree now
[05:49] <Keybuk> atomic barrier? affinity?
[05:49] <Kamion> mono, see above
[05:50] <seb128> Keybuk: 
[05:50] <seb128> $ cat /etc/udev/rules.d/85-alsa.rules
[05:50] <seb128> RUN+="/bin/touch /var/run/YES_I_RAN_simple"
[05:50] <seb128> KERNEL=="controlC[0-7] ", ACTION=="add", RUN+="/bin/touch /var/run/YES_I_RAN"
[05:50] <seb128> KERNEL=="controlC[0-7] ", ACTION=="add", RUN+="sh -c 'ls /dev/snd >> /var/run/snd.log'"
[05:50] <seb128> KERNEL=="controlC[0-7] ", ACTION=="add", RUN+="/etc/init.d/alsa-utils start %n"
[05:50] <seb128> $ ls /var/run/snd* /var/run/YES_I_RAN*
[05:50] <seb128> ls: /var/run/snd*: Aucun fichier ou rpertoire de ce type
[05:50] <seb128> /var/run/YES_I_RAN  /var/run/YES_I_RAN_simple
[05:50] <ogra> tseng, you and your strange drugs ....
[05:50] <Keybuk> seb128: oh, /bin/sh would probably help that ;)
[05:51] <seb128> $ cat /var/run/snd.log
[05:51] <seb128> controlC0
[05:51] <seb128> pcmC0D0c
[05:51] <seb128> pcmC0D0p
[05:51] <seb128> pcmC0D1c
[05:51] <seb128> pcmC0D2p
[05:51] <seb128> timer
[05:51] <seb128> on an udev restart
[05:51] <Kamion> Mithrandir: didn't see a casper upload from you so I just did one, hope that's not too inconvenient; committed and pushed to my espresso-desktop branch
[05:52] <Kamion> Mithrandir: also there was a bin/casper-to-usb script in your 1.31 tarball that apparently never got added to bzr
[05:52] <Keybuk> seb128: ok, well so far I don't see any reason your mixer settings aren't being restored
[05:52] <Keybuk> OH WAIT!
[05:52] <Keybuk> brain just kicked in
[05:52] <Kamion> (so it's not in my upload)
[05:52] <Keybuk> guess where alsa stores the mixer settings
[05:52] <seb128> /var
[05:52] <Keybuk> bingo
[05:52] <seb128> grumpf
[05:52] <seb128> you should not have a separate /var nowadays :p
[05:53] <seb128> Keybuk: right, it's /var/lib/alsa/asound.state ... :)
[05:54] <Keybuk> yeah, a bunch of stuff uses /var as if it were /etc
[05:54] <Keybuk> alsa happens to be one of them
[05:55] <seb128> so what would be the right way to fix that? 
[05:55] <seb128> move the file to etc?
[05:55] <Keybuk> move the file onto the root filesystem
[05:56] <Keybuk> oh look, it's a debian patch to move it *to* /var
[05:57] <seb128> jordi: !!!
[05:57] <Mithrandir> Kamion: casper-to-usb is unfinished, so that's ok.  I should add it to bzr, though.
[05:57] <seb128>         patches/10_move_asound_state_to_var.dpatch: Move the default
[05:57] <seb128>         asound.state from /etc/ to /var/lib/alsa/ (Closes: #106244)
[05:57] <seb128> hum
[05:58] <Keybuk> because having hardware-related stuff on your root filesystem is just asking for it to work
[05:58] <Keybuk> or something
[05:58] <Kamion> slomo_,tseng: still breaks with ppc-atomic-barrier
[05:59] <Keybuk> I guess I agree that it probably doesn't belong in /etc either though
[05:59] <tseng> Kamion: ack
[05:59] <slomo_> Kamion: ok, thanks for testing
[05:59] <slomo_> Kamion: we'll send it up with setaffinity then for now
[05:59] <Keybuk> we need a variable state directory on the root filesystem
[05:59] <Kamion> trying the sched_setaffinity thing again just to make sure my old tree wasn't busted
[06:00] <Kamion> you should put #ifdef __powerpc__ / #endif around the setaffinity changes obviously
[06:00] <slomo_> Kamion: ok... if it was busted it would be really interesting to know what you changed there ;)
[06:00] <Kamion> bit late :(
[06:00] <seb128> right, /etc is not the right place for that neither
[06:00] <seb128> and alsa will probably not the only one in that case ...
[06:01] <Keybuk> seb128: I actually can't think of anything else off the top of my head that needs a hardware configuration file to hang around after a reboot
[06:01] <Keybuk> it's kind of "saved settings"
[06:01] <Keybuk> so it's a bit like /etc as it's card configuration, but a bit like /var because it's machine-managed
[06:01] <pitti> seb128: !
[06:01] <seb128> pitti: !!
[06:01] <pitti> seb128: quick, quick, which package has the 'Desktop' translation?
[06:02] <pitti> seb128: i. e. is that a .desktop file or a .mo file?
[06:02] <seb128> Keybuk: better to use /etc so, that would fix my bug :)
[06:02] <seb128> pitti: what "Desktop"? The places menu one? gnome-panel (.mo)
[06:02] <Keybuk> seb128: /etc/var/alsa ? :p
[06:02] <seb128> lol
[06:02] <pitti> seb128: yes, places
[06:02] <pitti> seb128: changing gnome-panel-2.0.mo doesn't work
[06:03] <Keybuk> at least that makes it obvious
[06:03] <seb128> pitti: panel-menu-items.c:                             Q_("Desktop Folder|Desktop"),
[06:03] <pitti> seb128: 'k, thank you a million
[06:03] <seb128> np
[06:03] <Kamion> slomo_: BTW I don't think all powerpc systems have lwsync so that would break pre-power4, surely?
[06:04] <Kamion> you need sync on older chips
[06:04] <slomo_> Kamion: no idea... i'll ask the mono guys
[06:05] <Kamion> slomo_: and wouldn't it need to apply to the other Interlocked* functions?
[06:06] <Keybuk> seb128: don't suppose you know the bug#?
[06:06] <seb128> Keybuk: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/31564
[06:06] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31564 in alsa-utils "sound muted on started" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[06:07] <Kamion> also lwsync isn't really a lock, not in the same way LOCK is on x86
[06:07] <Kamion> it just makes sure all memory operations before lwsync have been completed before proceeding
[06:08] <slomo_> Kamion: <lupus> slomo: yes, but that one is used to implement the lock() operator
[06:08] <slomo_> Kamion: <lupus> slomo: could you tell him to make it use sync instead of lwsync and retry?
[06:09] <slomo_> Kamion: <lupus> slomo: that is the intended behaviour
[06:09] <slomo_> Kamion: <lupus> the lock is implemented with the compareexchange, not with the lwsync, of course
[06:10] <jdub> Keybuk: sorry, missed the context of your "put one on there" request?
[06:11] <Keybuk> jdub: an OK button on the gdm theme for people to click after typing in their username or password
[06:11] <Kamion> ok, I'll try sync instead; but I'll have to go in 20 minutes so you might not get the answer for a while
[06:11] <jdub> Keybuk: ah, yeah - i also want to put username/password on the same screen
[06:11] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk: hm, did people really not figure out the enter?
[06:12] <ogra> jdub, two entry boxes ? 
[06:12] <Keybuk> HiddenWolf: yup, apparently pressing Enter in Windows almost always does the wrong thing, so people don't try it
[06:12] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk: shame, I liked the cleanness of the theme.
[06:12] <Keybuk> seb128: can you try the alsa-utils package on http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ and see if that fixes it :)
[06:12] <jdub> ogra: yeah
[06:13] <ogra> eeek
[06:13] <ogra> jdub, thats evil and ugly ... why do you want to do that ? 
[06:13] <Keybuk> HiddenWolf: a theme with just a slowly pulsating "username?" in the middle, with no text box, and movie-os style animated backdrop would be even cleaner
[06:13] <ogra> (i agree that a ok button might make sense)
[06:13] <Keybuk> but we'd have 90% of users sitting there wondering *where* they type their username
[06:14] <jdub> ogra: much clearer, based on user testing
[06:14] <ogra> hrm...
[06:14] <jdub> ogra: easier to fix mistakes, etc.
[06:14] <ogra> Keybuk, in the field where "username" is written on ? 
[06:15] <Keybuk> ogra: read the line above too
[06:15] <ogra> i find it very intuitive to have one field that changes the label ... 
[06:15] <Keybuk> ogra: it seems that a lot of our users don't
[06:15] <Keybuk> find another example of that elsewhere in the interface
[06:15] <ogra> its emptied ... 
[06:15] <Keybuk> dialog boxes have eight fields, not one that changes as you type into it
[06:15] <ogra> the label should be bigger and clearer
[06:16] <Kinnison> she typed her username in and then asked me "so where do I type my password in, and what do I click on to continue?"
[06:16] <Keybuk> ogra: first rule of UI design ... users don't read ... no matter how big the text
[06:16] <ogra> hrm 
[06:16] <Keybuk> how many times have you signed the date box, or the "print your name here" box on forms, etc.? :p
[06:16] <ogra> i dont like the idea nontheless ...
[06:17] <Keybuk> the Royal Mail "Special Delivery" form gets me every damned time
[06:17] <Keybuk> especially as they like delivering at about 5am
[06:17] <Keybuk> I always sign in the wrong box
[06:17] <Kinnison> Keybuk: I almost signed in the date field on the most recent paperwork for selling my house
[06:17] <Kinnison> but that was a really poor form
[06:18] <Keybuk> ogra: clever/shiny/clean is secondary to usable :)
[06:19] <Keybuk> . o O { oh, so that's why sudo is asking me for my passphrase too much }
[06:19] <Kinnison> okay so pbuilder is confusing me
[06:19] <Kinnison> how do I make it build my source tree?
[06:20] <Keybuk> Kinnison: buggered if I know, I've never used it
[06:21] <Keybuk> hmm, I want to install ia32-libs, don't I?
[06:21] <Keybuk> and probably linux32
[06:22] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: you do, probably.
[06:22] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: what's the collection of useful amd64 gadgetry that I should install on this?
[06:22] <Keybuk> I'd quite like to have an i386 chroot, etc.
[06:23] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: i386 chroot?  debootstrap's generally useful for creating such.
[06:23] <Kamion> slomo_,tseng: right, sched_setaffinity definitely works, trying lupus' suggestion now (but as I say, going in five minutes or so)
[06:23] <Kamion> debootstrap --arch i386
[06:23] <Keybuk> right, I know how to *make* it :)  but not how to run shit in it <g>
[06:23] <Kamion> linux32 chroot /blah
[06:24] <slomo_> Kamion: ok, thanks... i'll upload with that patch for now... we can replace it with something better in the future :)
[06:24] <Kamion> even without linux32 it'll work
[06:24] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: bind-mount /tmp and /home and you'll be able to run X programs in there too.
[06:24] <Kamion> slomo_: right, as long as it gets #ifdefed to powerpc
[06:24] <slomo_> Kamion: it's #ifdef __powerpc__ now
[06:24] <Kamion> good
[06:24] <Keybuk> what does linux32 do, then?
[06:24] <Kamion> I'll let you know what happens with the sync business
[06:24] <Kamion> Keybuk: sets kernel personality
[06:25] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: makes uname return stuff as if you were a 32 bit platform.
[06:25] <Kamion> so uname says i686, e.g.
[06:25] <pitti> yay, network is back
[06:26] <Keybuk> ok, I guess in theory just running an ia32 binary works, but it'd still think it was running on "amd64" ?
[06:28] <pitti> Kamion: FYI, today's amd64 install/live are good
[06:28] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: yes.
[06:28] <Kamion> pitti: great, thanks
[06:28] <Keybuk> ok
[06:31] <Kamion> slomo_: s/lwsync/sync/ still breaks
[06:32] <Kamion> er s/lwsync/sync/g that is
[06:32] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: so ia32-libs are the common deps of 32-bit apps?
[06:33] <slomo_> Kamion: ok
[06:33] <pitti> carlos: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/packages/
[06:33] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: it's a subset which covers at least a base set, yes.  It's not a full 32 bit environment
[06:33] <carlos> pitti: thanks
[06:33] <pitti> carlos: sorry for the delay, a super-urgent emergency task popped up in between
[06:33] <carlos> pitti: don't worry
[06:33] <Keybuk> right, so other than linux32 or ia32-libs, anything else I might want/need/find useful?
[06:33] <pitti> carlos: that's the new version I'll upload as soon as you give me the ok
[06:33] <carlos> pitti: ok
[06:33] <pitti> carlos: do you need anything else?
[06:33] <carlos> nothing, thanks
[06:33] <pitti> carlos: btw, that's the version I created the pmount test build with
[06:34] <carlos> ok
[06:36] <Kinnison> hmm, no seb
[06:37] <Keybuk> no, he ran off ~15 mins ago
[06:37] <Kinnison> do you happen to know if we honour /etc/xdg/autostart/*.desktop ?
[06:38] <Keybuk> no idea
[06:38] <ogra> theer he is :)
[06:38] <Kinnison> seb128: do you happen to know if we honour /etc/xdg/autostart/*.desktop ?
[06:38] <seb128> Keybuk: slightly better
[06:38] <Keybuk> seb128: did that work?
[06:38] <Keybuk> "slightly" ?
[06:38] <seb128> Keybuk: it doesn't find amixer because /usr is not mounted *g*
[06:39] <Keybuk> seb128: I'm going to deck you
[06:39] <seb128> lol
[06:39] <Keybuk> what's amixer?
[06:39] <seb128> Kinnison: no, the spec seems stupid to me, I've changed to /usr/share/autostart and I'm in discussion with upstream
[06:39] <seb128> Keybuk: something that /etc/init.d/alsa-utils starts complain if you don't have it
[06:39] <Kinnison> seb128: okay, I'll try and persuade this to install the .desktop there
[06:39] <seb128> I've init=/bin/sh and tried it
[06:39] <Keybuk> seb128: ok ... it doesn't seem to actually use it for this job, so we can fix that :p
[06:40] <Keybuk> I assume if you comment that out, it's fine?
[06:40] <seb128> Keybuk: right, alsactl is /sbin
[06:41] <seb128> Keybuk: I've not tried in fact, will do at next boot :)
[06:41] <seb128> but it should
[06:41] <Keybuk> hang on
[06:41] <Keybuk> yeah, it looks like amixer is needed for this
[06:41] <seb128> Kinnison: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=330397
[06:41] <Ubugtu> gnome2 bug 330397 in gnome-session "autostart uses config_dir instead of data_dir" [Normal,New]  
[06:41] <seb128> Keybuk: moving it to /bin ? :p
[06:41] <dan_t> hello. i have a problem on dapper. nautilus does not refresh properly the x root window. the desktop background is corrupted
[06:42] <Keybuk> seb128: no, /sbin
[06:44] <Keybuk> I'm glad we have *someone* who's put everything possible onto seperate filesystems, anyway
[06:45] <seb128> :)
[06:45] <Keybuk> you clearly like having to do "df | less" :p
[06:46] <seb128> I like to get a pile of "low disk space" bubble on GNOME login :p
[06:46] <jdub> crash test sebby :-)
[06:47] <hunger> Keybuk: is having 22 local partitions mounted not the norm here?
[06:47] <Keybuk> hunger: only if they're tmpfs and bind mounts
[06:47] <hunger> Keybuk: 5 of them are set up for you by ubuntu anyway;-)
[06:47] <Keybuk> 5?  4!
[06:48] <seb128> $ mount | wc -l
[06:48] <seb128> 16
[06:48] <Keybuk> unless you're counting the root filesystem?
[06:48] <seb128> *g*
[06:48] <hunger> Keybuk: Oh, right... where did the tmpfs for the restricted modules go?
[06:48] <Keybuk> actually, I guess if you're being accurate, Ubuntu mounts 8
[06:48] <Keybuk> hunger: *g* hidden
[06:48] <Keybuk> actually it just needs adding to mtab
[06:49] <Keybuk> (it gets mounted before there's a writable root filesystem)
[06:49] <Keybuk> hmm
[06:49] <hunger> Keybuk: then it is 8 mounted and set up by ubuntu.
[06:49] <hunger> So it is only 14 for my normal FS:-)
[06:50] <dan_t> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-driver-nv/+bug/6120 i'm experimentin this bug (but with a radeon video card on an ibook) . can i help to fix it?
[06:50] <Ubugtu> malone bug 6120 in xserver-xorg-driver-nv "[Dapper]  Screen corruption on Gnome desktop with nv driver" [Normal,Needs info]  
[06:50] <Keybuk> /proc, /sys, /dev, /dev/.bootchart, /var/run, /var/lock, /lib/modules/*/volatile, /dev/.static/dev, /dev/pts, /dev/shm, /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc, /proc/bus/usb
[06:50] <Keybuk> that's 12 ...
[06:50] <hunger> Keybuk: That is my laptop... no idea how many I have on my servers:-)
[06:50] <slomo_> ubuntu-artwork is currently broken with no grub installed... e.g. on ppc ;)
[06:50] <slomo_> update-alternatives: unable to make /boot/grub/default-splash.xpm.gz.dpkg-tmp a symlink to /etc/alternatives/grub-artwork: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
[06:51] <dan_t> slomo: same for me :)
[06:52] <seb128> slomo_: ping mvo 
[06:52] <slomo_> mvo: ping
[06:52] <mvo> hello
[06:52] <mvo> *grumpf*
[06:52] <seb128> hey mvo :)
[06:52] <mvo> thanks
[06:52] <slomo_> hi mvo ;)
[06:53] <mvo> slomo_: got your message
[06:56] <Kinnison> ogra: ping
[06:57] <ogra> Kinnison, pong
[06:57] <Kinnison> ogra: so http://people.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/gvm-nuv/
[06:57] <Kinnison> ogra: Can you please have a play with that, I need to go out, mail me any issues
[06:58] <ogra> Kinnison, ok, i can do it only later, in a meeting in #ltsp currently ...
[06:58] <Kinnison> ogra: of course, enjoy
[06:59] <ogra> :)
[06:59] <ogra> Kinnison, err, 404
[07:00] <Kinnison> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/gpm-nuv/
[07:00] <Kinnison> sorry
[07:00] <Kinnison> *power* not *volume*
[07:00] <Kinnison> (quietly)
[07:00] <elmo> umm, what's X's support for FireGL ATI cards like?
[07:00] <Kinnison> Diziet: see you in about 2h I guess
[07:00] <elmo> with free drivers
[07:00] <Keybuk> General Purpose Mouse?
[07:01] <Kinnison> Keybuk: gnome-power-manager
[07:01] <mjg59> elmo: depends on which one, but ought to be "ok"
[07:01] <mjg59> As long as they're not r500 based
[07:01] <elmo> V3100 128Mb PCIe
[07:02] <mjg59> elmo: That's an rv370
[07:02] <mjg59> elmo: Basically a slightly nicer X300. Should work.
[07:02] <elmo> mjg59: excellent, thanks
[07:04] <Burgwork> Keybuk, the issue with NM and atheros is dropping off due to scanning?
[07:04] <mjg59> Burgwork: Yes
[07:04] <siretart> how do I check if my dbus is still working correctly?
[07:05] <Burgwork> mjg59, I wonder if it is just specific chipsets of Atheros, because I have not been noticing that with my atheros
[07:05] <siretart> g-p-m doesn't change display brightness correctly after suspend, and I suspect dbus having problems with supend to ram on my machine. how to check?
[07:05] <Keybuk> Burgwork: run "sudo iwevent"
[07:05] <Keybuk> and leave it for a few minutes, paste its output
[07:06] <Burgwork> Keybuk, I will email you tonight (don't have my laptop at work with me)
[07:06] <Keybuk> I don't have e-mail
[07:06] <Burgwork> Keybuk, then I will PM you
[07:07] <hunger> Is it possible that the partition mounted on /boot is not listed on "mount"?
[07:08] <janimo> X people, shouldn't  /usr/bin/X be setsuid ? In a default install I need to chmod +s it so I can startx without gdm
[07:09] <Keybuk> seb128: new alsa-utils to test if you want
[07:09] <janimo> otherwise it says it cannot write /var/Xorg.logs
[07:10] <seb128> Keybuk: sure
[07:10] <Keybuk> seb128: source at same location with same filenames :)
[07:10] <Keybuk> you can probably just grab the diff
[07:11] <mjg59> siretart: "dbus having problems with suspend"?
[07:11] <mjg59> It's more likely that g-p-m has just got confused
[07:14] <janimo> elmo, can you please sync/override exo and thunar. They got UFV exception permission. thank you
[07:17] <janimo> ogra, are you ok with calling the alternatives name for the derivative /etc/alternatives/gdm-config-file ?
[07:17] <siretart> mjg59: well, I'm seeing that it doesn't change screen brightness after suspend anymore
[07:17] <ogra> janimo, sure ... pleaswe talk to seb128 about the target of the link ... he's thinking about moving all config to /usr/share
[07:18] <janimo> seb128, ping ^
[07:18] <janimo> oh, he's gone
[07:18] <mjg59> siretart: Doesn't change screen brightness in what way? The slider doesn't work, or it doesn't do it automatically?
[07:19] <janimo> ogra, you mean movind what's in /etc/gdm ->/usr/share ?
[07:19] <mvo> slomo_: ubuntu-artwork should be fixed
[07:19] <ogra> janimo, yes, he's still thinking about it
[07:19] <slomo_> mvo: thanks :)
[07:19] <seb128> Keybuk: still muted, I've to go now but I'll have a look after diner and let you now later or tomorrow
[07:19] <Chipzz> an alternative for gdm.conf ? get off the bong allready :P
[07:20] <mvo> slomo_: thanks for reporting!
[07:20] <janimo> Chipzz, an alternative to a conf file which has priority over gdm.conf actually
[07:20] <slomo_> mvo: np
[07:20] <janimo> invoking with gdm --config alternative-gdm-conf
[07:21] <janimo> so derivative distros can override the default gdm greeter theme
[07:21] <Chipzz> then they should alter the default gdm.conf
[07:21] <Chipzz> isnt this taking it a little bit to far?
[07:21] <janimo> and what to do with the default one?
[07:22] <Chipzz> for crying out loud...
[07:22] <Chipzz> it gets to be the default one... it's called "branding"
[07:22] <janimo> alternate distros is a bit innacuarte: different packages to suppply diferent confs
[07:22] <siretart> mjg59: before suspend, the slider changed the brightness instantly. after suspend, the slider doesnt change anything
[07:22] <mdz> seb128: what happened to the swfdec gstreamer plugin when we moved to 0.10?
[07:23] <janimo> Chipzz, this is the cleanest way we found so far
[07:23] <Chipzz> just think about it... this is total and utter abuse of alternatives
[07:23] <siretart> I just upgraded g-p-m and g-s-s, lets try again
[07:23] <janimo> Chipzz, propose a cleaner way
[07:24] <mjg59> siretart: What hardware?
[07:24] <Chipzz> janimo: why would you want to do that anyway? (provide an alternate gdm.conf)
[07:24] <mxpxpod> what would make syslogd spawn 9 new processes of itself after resuming from sleep?
[07:24] <dholbach> mdz: he went for a bit of swimming, i'll try to find out
[07:24] <janimo> Chipzz, read again what I said earlier :)
[07:24] <mdz> dholbach: thanks
[07:29] <siretart> mjg59: gnarf. after upgrade, I cannot reproduce the problem anymore.. this is a thinkpad r40
[07:29] <Chipzz> janimo: not sure... about another approach
[07:29] <Chipzz> but using the an alternative feels so wrong and dirty
[07:30] <Chipzz> janimo: also, this sets a precedent that we may not want to set
[07:30] <Chipzz> of you start doing this, who's to say not every single thing that can be themed will be using this system?
[07:31] <Chipzz> like provide a seperate theme package for every theme, and use an alternative for the default theme?
[07:32] <Chipzz> I guess what feels most wrong about it is that alternatives have been used mostly for user-visible things (things a user will execute/access, like binaries or man pages)
[07:34] <Chipzz> janimo: btw, another solution just popped to mind... use debconf ?
[07:35] <janimo> Chipzz, please let it be, it';s fine like it is now\
[07:36] <Mithrandir> pitti: what kind of gfx card do you have in your amd64?
[07:40] <dholbach> mdz: I just had a chat with slomo_. It seems that swfdec is part of gst0.10-bad, which is not packaged yet, because "bumpy" would still be an euphemism for the state of things there. :-/
[07:42] <mdz> dholbach: that's odd
[07:42] <mdz> dholbach: ds told me that it worked fine with gst0.10
[07:43] <dholbach> mdz: http://cvs.freedesktop.org/gstreamer/gst-plugins-bad/ext/swfdec/ is the CVS location. I can't speak for the build-ability - I didn't toy around with gstreamer yet.
[07:44] <dholbach> slomo_: when did you last try to build it?
[07:44] <slomo_> 0.10.0 release... that's the newest tarball of -bad... but i didn't try to swfdec plugin (but iirc it built fine) only faad, faac, mpc and wavpack... and they were unusuable at that point
[07:45] <dholbach> I read the bad-README in CVS, saying you shouldn't expect much of the whole bunch. :/
[07:46] <slomo_> so maybe we could package a cvs snapshot of the swfdec plugin... or hope that it moves to good or ugly soon
[07:48] <Keybuk> that was neat
[07:48] <Keybuk> wireless dropped because the smoke from the kitchen occluded the signal
[07:48] <ds> yo
[07:48] <Keybuk> 802.11 clearly has practical fire alarm potential
[07:49] <mdz> dholbach: still here?
[07:49] <dholbach> mdyes
[07:49] <dholbach> mdz: yes
[07:49] <mdz> dholbach: ds says that swfdec for 0.10 should be fine
[07:49] <dholbach> ds: we were just talking about swfdec in gstreamer 0.10
[07:49] <ds> right now, swfdec (the package) has an internal swfdec element
[07:49] <ds> which is nearly identical to the one in -bad
[07:50] <ds> it can conceivably be moved to -good, but nobody has worked on verifying it yet
[07:51] <slomo_> ds: can you try to push it to -good?
[07:51] <ds> yes
[07:51] <dholbach> woah, that'd be great
[07:52] <dholbach> slomo_: i think we should get it from cvs (as soon as it's in good) and get it tested
[07:53] <dholbach> slomo_: of course talk to seb before ;)
[07:53] <slomo_> dholbach: sure... np :)
[07:54] <dholbach> thank you, ds - i just heard about the general state of -bad and packaging attempts and lost a bit of faith :)
[07:55] <ds> well, whomever decided that not packaging -bad was a good idea is dumb :)
[07:56] <HiddenWolf> ds: I would duck if I where you. ;)
[07:56] <slomo_> ds: well, with 0.10.0 the faad, faac, musepack and wavpack plugins were not really usuable for me thus i decided against packaging... if the overall state of the plugins has changed we could obviously package it :)
[07:56] <HiddenWolf> -h
[07:57] <mdz> jdahlin: ds mentioned that the problem might be related to xvimagesink
[07:57] <jdahlin> mdz: You could try using my script and change it to ximagesink
[07:57] <mdz> jdahlin: that works a lot better
[07:58] <mdz> jdahlin: it still only uses half the window
[07:58] <mdz> but no more corruption
[07:58] <jdahlin> ds: I thought playbin added colorspace elements
[07:59] <mdz> what would the syntax be to force ximagesink with gst-launch?
[07:59] <jdahlin> mdz: filesrc location=... ! swfdec ! ximagesink
[08:00] <jdahlin> you could also try ! ffmpegcolorspace ! xvimagesink
[08:00] <Mitario> BenC, hi, any date/time for the new kernel upload?
[08:00] <mdz> omg
[08:00] <mdz> jdahlin: that works perfectly
[08:01] <mdz> except no sound
[08:01] <jdahlin> that's a bit tricker, I can't remember the exact syntax to do that
[08:01] <jdahlin> but since sound worked when you used playbin it should work fine
[08:02] <mdz> so apparently, ximagesink works much better for me than xv, and gst-launch better than flashplayer.py
[08:02] <mdz> kiko: we have made some progress here
[08:03] <kiko> I am overjoyed to hear that
[08:03] <BenC> Mitario: any day now
[08:03] <Mitario> BenC, cool, thanks :)
[08:03] <kiko> mdz, what appear(s) to be the issue(s)?
[08:04] <mdz> kiko: <mdz> so apparently, ximagesink works much better for me than xv, and gst-launch better than flashplayer.py
[08:04] <mdz> kiko: the video corruption was fixed by using ximagesink, and the window sizing by using gst-launch
[08:04] <mdz> ds: thanks for your help
[08:04] <kiko> aha
[08:04] <mdz> so I can finally see swfdec working
[08:05] <kiko> what is ximagesink?
[08:05] <jdahlin> kiko: it's the element responsible for rendering the content on your display
[08:05] <kiko> and xv?
[08:05] <mdz> gst-launch-0.8 filesrc location=/tmp/userfriendly.swf \! swfdec name=demuxer \! ximagesink demuxer. \! esdsink
[08:05] <jdahlin> there's an alternative called xvimagesink, which is faster on compatible hardware
[08:05] <mdz> that gives me a very functional player wiith sound
[08:06] <kiko> ERROR: pipeline doesn't want to play.
[08:06] <mdz> it is mystic runes I extrapolated from examples
[08:06] <mdz> in the man page
[08:07] <jdahlin> mdz: try gst-launch-0.8 filesrc location=userfriendly.swf swfdec name=swfdec ! { queue ! ffmpegcolorspace ! ximagesink }  { swfdec. ! queue ! alsasink }
[08:07] <kiko> ERROR: from element /pipeline0/thread1/alsasink0: Could not get/set settings from/on resource.
[08:08] <mdz> could gst-launch possibly use MORE SHELL METACHARACTERS?
[08:08] <jdahlin> gst-launch-0.8 filesrc location=userfriendly.swf swfdec name=swfdec ! { queue ! ffmpegcolorspace ! ximagesink }  { swfdec. ! queue ! alsasink device=hw:0 }
[08:08] <jdahlin> it's for developers :)
[08:08] <tseng> Kamion: great, at least we have a work around.
[08:08] <mdz> jdahlin: ERROR: pipeline doesn't want to play.
[08:08] <tseng> Kamion: thanks for testing
[08:08] <jdahlin> kiko: try that one, it works around stupidness in alsasink
[08:08] <mdz> jdahlin: developers don't use the shell?
[08:08] <kiko> ERROR: from element /pipeline0/swfdec: Internal GStreamer error: pad problem.  File a bug.
[08:08] <kiko> Additional debug info:
[08:08] <kiko> gstpad.c(3377): gst_pad_pull: /pipeline0/swfdec:
[08:08] <kiko> pull on pad swfdec:sink but it was unlinked
[08:08] <kiko> Execution ended after 1 iterations (sum 1220000 ns, average 1220000 ns, min 1220000 ns, max 1220000 ns).
[08:08] <mdz> (gst-launch-0.8:16011): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: invalid uninstantiatable type `(null)' in cast to `SwfdecObject'
[08:08] <mdz> (gst-launch-0.8:16011): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: invalid uninstantiatable type `(null)' in cast to `GObject'
[08:08] <mdz> (gst-launch-0.8:16011): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed
[08:08] <jdahlin> mdz: they use a sane shell
[08:09] <SAAD3000> How come i can connect to the internet thru xp/suse and not thru ubuntu and i configured ubuntu exactly like suse & xp, and it tells me about fixing my proxy?
[08:09] <SAAD3000> i think you guys are the one that can help.
[08:09] <mdz> jdahlin: bash is for wimps
[08:09] <dholbach> SAAD3000: that's more of a #ubuntu question
[08:09] <dholbach> SAAD3000: or http://launchpad.net/support
[08:09] <SAAD3000> dholbach trust me no one knows
[08:10] <SAAD3000> its weird
[08:10] <kent> SAAD3000: file a bugreport.
[08:10] <SAAD3000> kent what bug? there was no bugs
[08:10] <mdz> kent: not unless he's isolated the problem
[08:10] <mdz> the bug tracking system is not for support; we do have a support tracking system
[08:11] <kiko> jdahlin...
[08:11] <SAAD3000> i really like this distro
[08:11] <kent> mdz: oh, didn't know about that. :)
[08:11] <SAAD3000> but why its doing this does i have to update the kernel to -10?
[08:14] <mdz> ds: the swfdec piece of this is looking good
[08:14] <kiko> the alsasink part of it is a disaster :)
[08:14] <mdz> it seems we just need to figure out how to drive gstreamer and upward appropriately
[08:14] <mdz> kiko: yes
[08:15] <ds> flashplayer.py appears to be broken
[08:15] <kiko> ds, of course it is, check the author!
[08:15] <mdz> kiko: with 0.10 we could use autoaudiosink I think
[08:16] <ds> er, maybe it's a swfdec element problem
[08:17] <jdahlin> ds: I think it's playbin that's broken
[08:17] <pitti> Mithrandir: re
[08:17] <jdahlin> since using playbin from gst-launch didn't work
[08:17] <pitti> Mithrandir: nVidia GeForce FX 5200 (nv34 chipset)
[08:17] <ds> ennyweys, the pipeline used by swfdec-mozilla-player works
[08:18] <ds> jdahlin: indeed
[08:18] <Mithrandir> pitti: thanks.
[08:21] <ds> hrm, swfdec-mozilla-player uses playbin
[08:21] <ds> and it seems to be failing now
[08:23] <xerox_> Hi.
[08:24] <kiko> ds, playbin hangs for me..
[08:24] <xerox_> I hope this is the right place to ask, finally... anybody knows about libsvg-cairo?  I can't find it anywhere!  I'm looking forward to find it packaged for ubuntu or package it somehow.
[08:27] <dholbach> xerox_: #ubuntu-motu might be a better place, if you want to package it.
[08:27] <ds> kiko: swfdec-mozilla-player in the swfdec package is generally the most reliable player, so that should be the first place to check for bugs
[08:27] <xerox_> dholbach: I was just redirected here to ask if somebody was knowing about it, or even working on the library.
[08:27] <LaserJock> dholbach: lol, I sent him here because I thought one of the X devs would know
[08:27] <xerox_> :-)
[08:28] <kiko> ds, well:
[08:28] <kiko> kiko@beetle:~$ swfdec-mozilla-player userfriendly.swf 
[08:28] <kiko> Segmentation fault
[08:28] <kiko> that's breezy however
[08:28] <dholbach> LaserJock: rsvg is #ubuntu-desktop rather - i don't think anybody is working on it, that's why i said #-motu :)
[08:29] <mdz> kiko: in dapper, it doesn't segfault, but it doesn't work euither
[08:29] <mdz> either
[08:29] <LaserJock> dholbach: ah, thanks. I just had no idea.
[08:29] <mdz> (swfdec-mozilla-player:4598): Gtk-WARNING **: Attempting to add a widget with type GtkAlignment to a GtkWindow, but as a GtkBin subclass a GtkWindow can only contain one widget at a time; it already contains a widget of type GtkAlignment
[08:29] <mdz> and a gstreamer pipeline error in the window
[08:29] <xerox_> You probably know about this <http://battlehorse.homelinux.net/w/Wiki.jsp?page=Xgl> -- it *has* a libsvg-cairo package, so I wonder what is exactly going on about it.  Also, it has no -dev one, unfortunately.
[08:30] <mdz> ds: failed to set pipeline to PLAYING
[08:34] <xerox_> Thanks for the informations, I'll try asking on #ubuntu-desktop later.  G'day.
[08:37] <_blaat> hi there
[08:37] <dholbach> xerox_: no -dev is bad
[08:37] <_blaat> http://rafb.net/paste/results/OM403091.html
[08:37] <_blaat> has anybody seen problems similar to that before?
[08:37] <_blaat> this is fresh after a ubuntu server install, I was able to use networking, and then I cant remember what other actions I did
[08:37] <dholbach> xerox_: sounds like a good idea to package it properly
[08:38] <_blaat> but next time I ran dhclient I get the above
[08:38] <kiko> hmmm
[08:38] <kiko> I installed swf-player but firefox doesn't pick it up
[08:38] <dholbach> xerox_: although there's only time until Feb 23rd
[08:38] <Keybuk> _blaat: weird, pitti ?
[08:39] <_blaat> keybuk: I dont understand, what's pitti?
[08:39] <HiddenWolf> _blaat: pitti is a person
[08:39] <HiddenWolf> _blaat: one of the developers
[08:39] <_blaat> oh
[08:40] <Keybuk> specifically the person who took dhclient's root privileges away :p
[08:40] <_blaat> ah yep I see
[08:40] <_blaat> I doubt it'd be involved with taking root privelages away
[08:40] <_blaat> unless it drops privs/uses another user to acquire the network address
[08:40] <pitti> yes, it usually does
[08:41] <pitti> however, I newer saw that
[08:41] <_blaat> oh, alright :)
[08:41] <_blaat> yeh, this was working fine up until a few days back, then I have nfi what else I did but dhclient just keeps giving the below
[08:41] <pitti> _blaat: ls -l /lib/dhcp3-client/call-dhclient-script
[08:41] <_blaat> I think I messed around with iwconfig stuff for a lil bit, that's about all
[08:42] <ogra> pitti, i get that if i uncleanly wiped a chroot that had /proc mounted ...
[08:42] <pitti> _blaat: did you set a manual script in dhclient.conf?
[08:42] <_blaat> ok, I can do all debugging stuff, but I have booted into windows since I cant get network addys etc. under nix
[08:42] <ogra> then the main system has permission denied errors
[08:42] <_blaat> so If you give me a list of things to try I'll give u an update in a sec
[08:42] <ogra> Keybuk saw it in london
[08:42] <_blaat> nope, no manual script in dhclient.conf
[08:42] <pitti> _blaat: ok, so I need the output of that command, and your /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf file
[08:42] <_blaat> everything is straight after a default ubuntu server install
[08:42] <pitti> hm, ok
[08:42] <_blaat> sure thing
[08:43] <_blaat> mind if  i reboot and get that for u now?
[08:43] <pitti> _blaat: moment, please, before you logout
[08:43] <_blaat> ok
[08:44] <Keybuk> ogra: on mdz's laptop
[08:44] <ogra> Keybuk, nope on mine ...
[08:44] <ogra> i came to you with it ... and you told me you wouldnt know what that is ...
[08:45] <ogra> i found then that it was caused by a broken ltsp client chroot ... that influenced the main system via either /var/run /var/something or /proc
[08:45] <pitti> _blaat: please do 'sudo strace -o dhclient.trace -f /sbin/dhclient eth0' in addition and send me dhclient.trace, too
[08:46] <_blaat> ok no probs
[08:46] <ogra> after i unmounted these three, and rebooted the error was gone
[08:46] <ogra> (unmounted in the chroot)
[08:47] <pitti> _blaat: thanks
[08:48] <Keybuk> oh was it?
[08:48] <ogra> yup
[08:53] <janimo> hmm I get connection refused when trying dput, anything known?
[08:54] <dholbach> janimo: yes, it's known and worked on
[08:54] <janimo> dholbach, ok thanks
[08:55] <janimo> same reason why LP is down?
[08:55] <jpatrick> upgrade?
[08:55] <kiko> nope
[08:55] <kiko> DC crash it appears
[08:59] <__blaat> hmms, pitti left for good?
[08:59] <__blaat> ah
[09:00] <__blaat> speak of the devil :)
[09:00] <__blaat> *devel even ;)
[09:00] <pitti> __blaat: not yet :)
[09:00] <pitti> __blaat: there's not much difference :)
[09:00] <ogra> pitti, crazy you ...
[09:01] <HiddenWolf> ogra: it works fine here. :)
[09:01] <HiddenWolf> minor glitches notwithstanding
[09:02] <tseng> pitti: i tried it on 3
[09:03] <tseng> pitti: only 1 works perfectly
[09:04] <pitti> ogra: it even works flawlessly on the ibook :)
[09:04] <pitti> well, some flicker
[09:04] <pitti> and on the amd64 xgl even starts with the nvidia driver
[09:04] <__blaat> pitti: can u accept dcc? the output from strace is a bit too large for pastbein
[09:04] <__blaat> *pastebin
[09:04] <pitti> however, when calling compiz, the WM goes crazy
[09:04] <pitti> __blaat: no, doesn't work here
[09:04] <ogra> i'll test next month or so 
[09:05] <pitti> __blaat: martin.pitt@ubuntu.com
[09:05] <pitti> ogra: yes, better; the advantage is that on ppc I don't have these psychedelic colors any more :)
[09:05] <__blaat> http://rafb.net/paste/results/bDpyIx41.html
[09:05] <__blaat> sure thing
[09:05] <ogra> pitti, hehe
[09:05] <ogra> port the fix to xorg then :)
[09:06] <pitti> __blaat: what did the ls -l show for you?
[09:06] <__blaat> the /etc/resolv.conf exists
[09:06] <__blaat> it is writeable by root
[09:07] <__blaat>  - /etc/resolv.conf-{blah} didnt exist
[09:07] <__blaat> I touched the file and set it world writeable as a test
[09:07] <__blaat> but I still get the same messages
[09:08] <pitti> __blaat: I mean ls -l /lib/dhcp3-client/call-dhclient-script
[09:08] <pitti> __blaat: should be -rwsr-xr-- 1 root dhcp 4336 2006-02-01 18:49 /lib/dhcp3-client/call-dhclient-script
[09:09] <__blaat> ah, I didnt check
[09:09] <pitti> __blaat: oh, if you should boot another time
[09:09] <pitti> __blaat: I need that, and ls -ld /var/lib/dhcp3/
[09:09] <__blaat> sure
[09:09] <pitti> __blaat: and ls -l /var/lib/dhcp3/
[09:10] <Keybuk> bah, I wanted a UK +44 555 number
[09:10] <pitti> hey zyga 
[09:10] <Keybuk> and nobody's allocating them yet
[09:17] <__blaat> pitti: thanks v. much for your help
[09:17] <__blaat> it turns out my call_xxx script was not suid
[09:17] <pitti> __blaat: hm, did the package installation fail or so?
[09:17] <__blaat> (I had removed suid on everything a few days before, so it rang a bell when u said that)
[09:17] <pitti> aaaah :)
[09:17] <__blaat> nah, it was my doing
[09:17] <__blaat> probably why dhclient worked one day, and stuffed up the next :)
[09:18] <pitti> yes, it needs that suid helper to call the /etc script
[09:18] <pitti> so that the actual daemon can run as unprivileged user
[09:18] <pitti> __blaat: part of my paranoid derooting rave :)
[09:18] <__blaat> it's definately goo
[09:18] <__blaat> *good
[09:19] <__blaat> ok, I'm going to go play on the ubuntu box now
[09:19] <__blaat> thanks again :)
[09:20] <pitti> and yet another happy user :)
[09:20] <ogra> heh
[09:21] <ogra> pitti, "this is not a support channel" :P
[09:21] <ogra> ;)
[09:22] <pitti> well, it seemed to be a bug...
[09:23] <Keybuk> meh, still some "pitiful font deuglification" to do, but getting there
[09:23] <Keybuk> seb128: ping?
[09:32] <seb128> Keybuk: pong
[09:33] <Keybuk> seb128: did you get round to trying that new alsa-utils yet?
[09:34] <seb128> Keybuk: I'm just back, the package with the sbin change still gives me muted sound
[09:34] <seb128> I was going to reboot now to give a try from init=/bin/sh :)
[09:35] <Keybuk> ok
[09:35] <Keybuk> brb
[09:35] <Keybuk> let me know how it goes
[09:37] <jpatrick> pitti: you're wanted in #ubuntu-meeting :)
[09:40] <Keybuk> holy crap!
[09:40] <ogra> ?
[09:41] <Keybuk> in fstab I have /media/cdrom1 through 8 ... all pointing at /dev/hdb
[09:41] <Keybuk> and /media/floppy0 through 7 ... all for /dev/fd0
[09:41] <ogra> thats an old one ...
[09:41] <ogra> look for it ...
[09:41] <alexr> Hi there 
[09:42] <alexr> Anybody is a gfxboot wiz here by any chance?
[09:50] <seb128> re
[09:50] <Q-FUNK> update-alternatives: unable to make /boot/grub/default-splash.xpm.gz.dpkg-tmp a symlink to /etc/alternatives/grub-artwork: file not found.
[09:50] <seb128> grumpf, Keybuk just parted
[09:50] <Q-FUNK> ubuntu-artwork (0.2.28-1)
[09:50] <seb128> mvo already did fix that one
[09:50] <seb128> update
[09:50] <Q-FUNK> ah
[09:51] <Q-FUNK> I just did
[09:51] <seb128> wait for the build and update so
[09:51] <Q-FUNK> update && upgrade
[09:51] <Q-FUNK> ok
[09:52] <Q-FUNK> any idea about whether my gnome-screensaver desktop file to make an ubuntu floater was ever merged into ubuntu-artwork, btw?
[09:52] <seb128> mdz: the swf plugin is to gst-plugins-bad0.10 (which we don't package atm)
[09:52] <seb128> that's a question for ogra
[09:53] <ogra> Q-FUNK, as i said, its on my list ... 
[09:54] <ogra> it has to be discussed first  and has still time until artwork freeze ... there is no hurry
[09:55] <seb128> mdz: sorry about the mail, there was no context and was looking like a "please update the packages to include those translations for dapper" so I didn't give it top priority (according to dholbach we should have done so)
[09:57] <Q-FUNK> ogra: ok. fair enough. I just wanted to point out that it might be easier to include the desktop file and SVG logo into ubuntu-artwork than to patch gnome-screensaver.
[09:58] <mdz> seb128: no, don't worry about it
[09:59] <ogra> yup, might be ... but as i said, its artwork stuff, so has time until artwork freeze ... my prio is coding until feature freeze ... then i'll look at other tasks like artwokrk 
[09:59] <mdz> seb128: it was a last-minute thing and I thought you were online so I could explain
[09:59] <mdz> seb128: I sent out all the mails and then talked to people
[10:00] <seb128> mdz: my mail is probably lagging so, I get it around 5pm (ie: one hour after the missing) and I was around since this morning until 7pm (out of some reboot for udev/alsa debug)
[10:00] <seb128> ok
[10:03] <seb128> mdz: for gst0.10-swf, -bad are the "not nice code, or no maintainer responsive for the code" stuff ... I can try to figure with upstream what's going on with it if you want
[10:04] <psusi> who was it that I was speaking to a few weeks ago around here who is the tar guru?  think he said he was an upstream maintainer for tar as well?
[10:04] <seb128> Keybuk: wb
[10:04] <Keybuk> seb128: any luck?
[10:04] <seb128> Keybuk: guess what ... those alsa stuff link to libasound which is /usr/lib ... :)
[10:05] <Keybuk> *sigh*
[10:09] <mdz> seb128: those translations were actually for hoary ;-)
[10:09] <mdz> seb128: it was a one-off demo
[10:09] <mdz> seb128: ds (swfdec upstream) was in here saying that it worked just fine with 0.10
[10:09] <Keybuk> seb128: so I guess we need to move libasound to /lib ?
[10:09] <mdz> seb128: and that he would try to move it to -good
[10:10] <Keybuk> seb128: did you try that?
[10:10] <seb128> Keybuk: I guess so
[10:10] <seb128> Keybuk: no, I've reboot to build it on a proper system
[10:10] <kiko> hey crimsun?
[10:10] <seb128> and I'm replying on other stuff on IRC atm, will give it a try in a few min
[10:10] <seb128> mdz: ah, would be nice :)
[10:10] <crimsun> kiko: hi
[10:11] <ogra> shudder ... kubuntu discusses klik inclusion in -meeting ...
[10:12] <kiko> crimsun, do you have any idea why the mixer doesn't work on the mac mini?
[10:12] <Keybuk> seb128: I'm starting to think this approaching "too much effort and too much likely to go wrong"
[10:12] <mdz> seb128: if you could monitor the swfdec stuff and make sure it gets into dapper, that would be excellent
[10:12] <crimsun> kiko: benc's hacking that iirc
[10:12] <kiko> it doesn't do anything -- aumix's controls are locked, and the gnome mixer is fubar
[10:12] <Keybuk> it's easier to deal with a known bug ("mixer settings not restored if you have /usr or /var on separate partitions") then miriad unknown bugs by moving all this stuff around
[10:12] <seb128> Keybuk: do you think we should just put the init.d standard startup instead of using udev?
[10:12] <kiko> crimsun, oh, really? so it's a kernel support issue?
[10:13] <seb128> mdz: ok, will do that
[10:13] <crimsun> kiko: well, what do amixer and alsamixer provide?
[10:13] <ogra> kiko, try switching the pcspeaker checkbox off and on again in the mixer ... WFM
[10:13] <Keybuk> the init.d standard startup doesn't work ... because there's no init.d point we can say "we have sound cards now"
[10:13] <seb128> Keybuk: so you just want to say "if you have /usr or in a separate partition no sound luck for you"? 
[10:14] <Keybuk> seb128: you noticed it too late ;)
[10:14] <seb128> nah nah nah
[10:14] <Keybuk> moving libasound into /lib will break a lot, won't it?
[10:14] <Keybuk> that's transition-level
[10:14] <kiko> hmmm
[10:15] <kiko> crimsun, ogra: it appears mpg123 is using oss output, not alsa.
[10:15] <kiko> this is breezy, though
[10:15] <ogra> oh
[10:15] <seb128> Keybuk: $ apt-cache rdepends libasound2 | wc -l
[10:15] <seb128> 183
[10:15] <crimsun> kiko: mpg123-oss or mpg321 (with alternative set to mpg123)?
[10:15] <seb128> yeah, not good
[10:15] <kiko> hmmm, just mpg123
[10:16] <Keybuk> seb128: I'm going to suggest something
[10:16] <Keybuk> how about a "while [ ! -d /usr/bin ] ; do sleep 1; done"
[10:16] <Keybuk> at the top of the alsa start script
[10:16] <seb128> Keybuk: is there a way to do an ugly preload hack?
[10:16] <kiko> crimsun, let me try mpg321
[10:16] <seb128> Keybuk: like copying it to /lib too and preload?
[10:16] <Keybuk> I'd rather avoid those kinds of things, tbh
[10:16] <seb128> Keybuk: that's quite ugly too but that would work ...
[10:16] <kiko> crimsun, it works!
[10:16] <kiko> rock!
[10:17] <crimsun> kiko: excellent.
[10:17] <tommie-lie> don't know if I'm on-topic here, but could anybody tell me if I can append "ubuntuX" to the version string of all packages specifically intended for Ubuntu, or only to those packages that are made to be included in universe?
[10:17] <Keybuk> what's ~/.wapi ?
[10:17] <Keybuk> tommie-lie: it's appended to the versions of packages modified for and packaged for Ubuntu, no matter whether main, universe, etc.
[10:18] <seb128> Keybuk: the sleep trick works for me, I've no better idea atm
[10:18] <dholbach> everybody added something to  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay ?
[10:19] <tommie-lie> Keybuk: also for packages for a completely private repository, i.e. that will never make it to archive.ubuntu.com?
[10:20] <Keybuk> tommie-lie: that's up to you
[10:20] <tommie-lie> Keybuk: okay, thanks for the info!
[10:20] <slomo_> Keybuk: ~/.wapi is used internally by mono
[10:21] <Keybuk> seb128: of course, this presents another problem
[10:21] <Keybuk> how to make the script wait, without udev waiting for the script <g>
[10:21] <seb128> start &
[10:21] <seb128> ?:)
[10:21] <slomo_> Keybuk: did you start mono as root? or maybe a broken package which doesn't set MONO_SHARED_DIR correctly build as root and not with fakeroot? no idea ;)
[10:22] <Keybuk> seb128: yeah, but with start-stop-daemon and stuff
[10:22] <seb128> grumpf
[10:23] <seb128> Keybuk: make alsa-utils mount /usr and unmount it when it's done? :p
[10:24] <seb128> or do we lack some drivers at that point that could be needed?
[10:27] <Keybuk> we could lack the /dev node for the /usr filesystem ;)
[10:28] <alexr> Anybody know the details of gfxboot ?
[10:31] <psusi> anyone know who the local tar guru was?  I was speaking to someone a few weeks ago here who was also an upstream maintainer for tar... but I forget who
[10:34] <HiddenWolf> psusi: why don't you google for tar, figure out the upstream site, find the name, and call out for the person?
[10:34] <ds> mdz, seb128: I'm not entirely sure anymore that swfdec (the element) works correctly with gstreamer-CVS
[10:34] <HiddenWolf> psusi: or check who last touched tar in debian or ubuntu.
[10:35] <seb128> ds: you have one month to fix it :)
[10:35] <seb128> ds: thank you :)
[10:35] <mdz> seb128: feature freeze is in one week ;-)
[10:36] <ds> mdz: the feature is there, it's just buggy :)
[10:36] <seb128> mdz: it's a GNOME stuff ... :)
[10:36] <ds> ah
[10:36] <janimo> seb128, ogra said  you want to move etc/gdm configs to usr/share did I understand right?
[10:36] <seb128> yeah, let's ship the broken one before feature freeze and call it a bug fix then :)
[10:36] <seb128> janimo: no
[10:36] <janimo> what then?
[10:36] <seb128> janimo: upstream did that, that's not something I want
[10:36] <ogra> janimo, i said he thinks about it :)
[10:37] <seb128> custom is to be changed and to /etc
[10:37] <Keybuk> seb128: ok, another alsa-utils source uploaded for you to test
[10:37] <janimo> ogra, you can read his mind ? ;)
[10:37] <seb128> the distro file is static and to /usr/share
[10:37] <seb128> Keybuk: k
[10:37] <janimo> seb128, so gdm config stays as is for dapper then?
[10:37] <janimo> so I go ahead and do that conf override thing for the  xfce theme
[10:38] <ogra> janimo, only if my mindrays reach to france ... thats really weather dependent :P
[10:38] <seb128> janimo: no
[10:38] <seb128> janimo: it'll be moved to /usr/share as due
[10:38] <seb128> I'm just not sure yet how to migrate user configuration
[10:39] <janimo> but at least gdm.conf has to stay in etc right?
[10:39] <seb128> no
[10:39] <seb128> did you read what I just said?
[10:39] <janimo> yes, but apparently I did not understand
[10:40] <seb128> the custom is for etc
[10:40] <janimo> you said: the distro file is static and to /usr/share
[10:40] <seb128> the gdm.conf is for /usr/share
[10:41] <janimo> so the custom file is staying where the init scrips is currently looking for it?
[10:41] <seb128> what about you reading the package changelog?
[10:41] <seb128> or the upstream NEWS which has all the explanation :)
[10:42] <janimo> going there now :)
[10:42] <seb128> "    - Because the main gdm.conf file is now read-only, contains distro
[10:42] <seb128>       defaults and is not to be edited by the user, the file has been
[10:42] <seb128>       moved to ${datadir}/gdm/defaults.conf (also factory-gdm.conf is
[10:42] <seb128>       now %{datadir}/gdm/factory-defaults.conf)."
[10:43] <janimo> I have just read it
[10:43] <janimo> and it seems /etc/gdm/gdm-cdd.conf  is ok so that part is not affected right?
[10:43] <seb128> hum
[10:43] <seb128> static configuration is moved to /usr/share
[10:44] <seb128> it will probably change for /usr/share/gdm-cdd.conf
[10:44] <janimo> what is static configuration then?
[10:44] <seb128> is that clear now?
[10:44] <seb128> something shipped by a package
[10:44] <janimo> clearer
[10:44] <seb128> to opposite to something written by gdmsetup
[10:44] <ogra> janimo, it might move to /usr/share but it isnt yet
[10:45] <ogra> and thats what seb128 is considering, since i gave no requirement when he asked me 
[10:45] <seb128> I want to follow upstream move, it makes sense
[10:45] <seb128> I'm just not sure on how to migrate datas on update
[10:45] <seb128> brb, trying alsa changes on startup
[10:46] <mjg59> Keybuk: http://xbox-linux.org.nyud.net:8090/mactel/index.php/Main_Page
[10:46] <mjg59> Keybuk: So we need to get hold of one of these fast :)
[10:47] <mjg59> Ha!
[10:47] <mjg59> They're still Broadcoms
[10:47] <Keybuk> Jane says it's ordered
[10:47] <Burgwork> mjg59, doable for dapper?
[10:49] <mjg59> Keybuk: Any estimated delivery time?
[10:49] <mjg59> Keybuk: Also, iMacs are possibly easier to obtain
[10:49] <Keybuk> mjg59: no idea
[10:50] <mjg59> Looks like their hacked framebuffer does nothing other than grab the linear framebuffer left behind by EFI
[10:50] <mjg59> I'd be surprised if it's actually using vesafb as such
[10:52] <seb128> Keybuk: that alsa-utils works fine :)
[10:52] <Keybuk> seb128: cool, I'll upload that one then
[10:52] <seb128> thank you for the work on that :)
[10:53] <seb128> nice to not have every single audio source muted at every startup :p
[11:07] <dholbach> good night guys
[11:08] <Florob> Sorry, to bother all of you, but could somebody possibly clear up the issue in the following forum thread, which keeps people from updating: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=131445
[11:09] <Seveas> Florob, it's an attempt of one of the developers to be funny 
[11:10] <HiddenWolf> Florob: it says "my previous upload did not work, so let's do it again"
[11:10] <HiddenWolf> Florob: where "did not work" means "did not hit the archive"
[11:10] <Florob> I know that and posted it but nobody wants to believe it ;)
[11:11] <HiddenWolf> If people want to be stupid, they will be. :)
[11:12] <Florob> I'll point them to the logs, lets see if people on #ubuntu-devel mean more to them, thanks anyway
[11:23] <seth> oh rolleyes, looky Seveas et al: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta/+bug/31698
[11:23] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31698 in linux-meta linux-image-2.6-386 "linux-image update description fishy and suspicious" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  
[11:24] <Seveas> 
[11:25] <Seveas> bug 31698
[11:25] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31698 in linux-meta linux-image-2.6-386 "linux-image update description fishy and suspicious" [Minor,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31698
[11:25] <Seveas> spot the difference ;)
[11:25] <seth> :D
[11:25] <HiddenWolf> LMAO
[11:26] <HiddenWolf> Sweet
[11:26] <seth> people sometimes, I tell ya
[11:26] <seth> oh well
[11:26] <HiddenWolf> It was unprofessional
[11:26] <HiddenWolf> He should at least have copied part of the original changelog. :)
[11:26] <Seveas> yes, but it's a development version ffs
[11:26] <HiddenWolf> *chuckle*
[11:27] <mjg59> Seveas: No, that looks like a security update
[11:27] <HiddenWolf> People are smart, groups are dumb. :)
[11:27] <mjg59> (For Breezy)
[11:27] <Seveas> ah right...
[11:27] <mjg59> We're somewhere past -10 on Dapper...
[11:27] <Seveas> ok, then someone should punish the kernel team
[11:27] <HiddenWolf> 2.6.15-16 or so
[11:28] <dieman> hrm
[11:29] <dieman> the new ipw2200 driver seems to be working better with wpa
[11:29] <dieman> (1.1.12)
[11:29] <dieman> )  oh no, take that badck, it just did its paus
[11:29] <dieman> e thing again
[11:29] <dieman> just had to wait for me to say its working better
[11:30] <dieman> 1.0.11, rather
[11:36] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/network-manager/
[11:36] <Keybuk> seb128, pitti, etc. ^^ please test and let me know how you get on tomorrow
[11:36] <Keybuk> (am about to go offline while I play myself)
[11:36] <seb128> ok
[11:36] <seb128> will do that :)
[11:36] <seb128> maybe it'll stop playing with my resolv.conf :)
[11:36] <Keybuk> yes, it should
[11:37] <Keybuk> also note that it won't touch (or even acknowledge the existance of) interfaces listed in /etc/network/interfaces
[11:37] <seb128> cool
[11:37] <seb128> atm it lists my 2 cards (only one activable)
[11:38] <seb128> I don't get why it doesn't activate the only available one by default
[11:39] <Keybuk> I haven't worked out how to make cards appear, but not be activatable yet
[11:39] <Keybuk> or, more to the point, how to make cards appear without network manager cheerfully tearing down the interface first
[11:40] <seb128> I'll play with the new version so we can talk tomorrow about it does exactly after the upgrade :)
[11:40] <Keybuk> yup
[11:41] <Keybuk> right, back tomorrow