[05:57] <LaserJock> hi theCore 
[05:59] <theCore> hello LaserJock! :D
[05:59] <LaserJock> I did some rearranging of the pg today
[06:01] <theCore> oh, two new files! basic.xml and ubuntu.xml, I wonder are they ... ;)
[06:02] <LaserJock> well, I moved scenarios.xml to basic.xml and I moved the ubuntu specific stuff to ubuntu.xml
[06:03] <theCore> cool, I like how you arranged the basic.xml file
[06:03] <LaserJock> Packaging Scenarios just wasn't very descriptive to me.
[06:04] <LaserJock> I also moved the "Building with CDBS" section to advanced. I don't think we will have time to make a full section like for debhelper
[06:05] <theCore> (lol, yelp froze when I go in a fullscreen <screen> tag)
[06:06] <theCore> maybe I should report as a bug ...
[06:06] <theCore> report it*
[06:07] <theCore> anyway ... I been cutting in half the size of the `make' description
[06:09] <LaserJock> theCore: I didn't touch getting started so my changes shouldn't effect your work
[06:10] <theCore> yah, I saw that
[06:11] <Kyral> You could just link to the WebDocs for CDBS
[06:12] <LaserJock> Kyral: I think that is pretty much what we're going to do. For dapper+1 I'd like to make a heloo-cdbs package
[06:13] <LaserJock> hello-cdbs that is
[06:16] <theCore> LaserJock, I think we should make a quick-and-dirty draft as fast as we can
[06:17] <theCore> LaserJock, it would make the writing easier after
[06:17] <Kyral> I'll make a contribution tomorrow
[06:18] <LaserJock> theCore: I agree. I've been busy with MOTU stuff lately (and work) but I"m presently working on the Pbuilder section.
[06:19] <Kyral> Good Night guys
[06:19] <Kyral> Tomorrow I start my work for the DocTeam
[06:20] <theCore> I will stop working on the Basic section, (I fear premature optimization) and try to work on a more important one 
[06:23] <LaserJock> cya Kyral 
[06:49] <theCore> LaserJock, I think will move everything of the Basic Skill to a Suggested Reading section
[06:52] <LaserJock> theCore: ok, that might be best. But try to include a little summary or description along with the link
[06:53] <theCore> yep, that exactly what I was thinking
[06:53] <LaserJock> theCore: I think that would be great, finish it up and send me a patch when your done ;-)
[06:53] <theCore> sure
[07:02] <theCore> ok, I need some sleep
[07:02] <theCore> cya later
[07:03] <jsgotangco> what the hell
[07:03] <jsgotangco> i got this from the doc list
[07:03] <jsgotangco> sent to the group
[07:03] <jsgotangco> Dear Sir / Madam .
[07:03] <jsgotangco> I am writing this in total disgust about the way things are done as far
[07:03] <jsgotangco> a help is concerned. By offering help to people, I would think that it
[07:03] <jsgotangco> would be done in a professional manner. But alas , this is not really
[07:03] <jsgotangco> the case now is it.  I have read input from other users state what they
[07:03] <jsgotangco> think of the likes of Microsoft etc etc. But in all fairness, Ubuntu is
[07:03] <jsgotangco> just the same, there is no difference in ether party. You both want a
[07:03] <jsgotangco> big slice of the software market, and do not care about who you walk
[07:03] <jsgotangco> over, get my drift.
[07:04] <jsgotangco> You see the only thing that stands in the way of progress is silly
[07:04] <jsgotangco> people who think that they are the only ones on this planet. Which
[07:04] <jsgotangco> accounts for 95% of this planet. It's a real shame, because there is
[07:04] <jsgotangco> more to life than stupid bravado and a lack of decent intelligence.  
[07:04] <jsgotangco> I for one will gladly send you back your software and you can stick it.
[07:04] <jsgotangco> Now go away and leave me alone.
[07:04] <jsgotangco> wonder who this email is addressed to
[07:04] <Madpilot> What? I don't think I got that - was it sent to ubuntu-doc?
[07:04] <jsgotangco> yes but it was a non-member so it got held
[07:05] <jsgotangco> i was about to approve mpt's email when i saw it
[07:05] <Madpilot> send it on, just for a laugh :P
[07:06] <jsgotangco> you sure?
[07:06] <jsgotangco> looks like spam
[07:06] <jsgotangco> well no
[07:06] <Madpilot> looks like nonsense, TBH...
[07:07] <jsgotangco> yes
[07:07] <jsgotangco> rejecting
[07:07] <LaserJock> The don't discuss at all what makes them feel they way the do
[07:07] <Madpilot> LaserJock: trolls aren't into motivation, they just troll
[07:08] <LaserJock> true, I wonder about senseless trolls. surely there must be some sign of intelligence
[07:12] <LaserJock> I'm off to bed. good night guys
[07:12] <Madpilot> later
[08:10] <Madpilot> what's the syntax for wildcards on the wiki? DocumentationTeam/* doesn't seem to be working to subscribe to everything under "DocumentationTeam"...
[08:22] <dsas> I think it's .*
[08:22] <Madpilot> thanks, will try that
[08:23] <dsas> . means match any character and * means match . any number of times.
[08:24] <Madpilot> ah - I really should learn basic regex at some point :P
[08:25] <dsas> I know bits...can't decipher some of the ones you see though.
[08:27] <dsas> I can't seem to update my UserPreferences actually, keep getting "passwords don't match"
[08:28] <Madpilot> can you edit the wiki & stuff?
[08:28] <jsgotangco> dsas, that's a known bug
[08:28] <jsgotangco> its already in malone
[08:29] <jsgotangco> i think spiv is the one who will fix it
[08:29] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: do me a small favour? Edit one of the sub-pages off DocumentationTeam (/MeetingAgenda or something) - I'd like to check if the wildcard subs work...
[08:29] <Madpilot> DocumentationTeam/.* and the like
[08:29] <jsgotangco> hold on
[08:31] <jsgotangco> err how do you like a subpage from a mainpage?
[08:31] <jsgotangco> like i want to list foobar but its a subpage of Foo
[08:33] <Madpilot> for a link? I think you have to put the whole thing in - [:Foo/foobar:text to give a useful link] 
[08:33] <jsgotangco> ahh
[08:34] <jsgotangco> Status of sending notification mails:
[08:34] <jsgotangco> [en]  DanielHolbach2, DanielRobitaille, GrantGalbraith, Dsas, MatthewEast, AndrewMitchell, Madpilot: Mail sent OK
[08:35] <Madpilot> excellent, it works - thanks
[08:36] <jsgotangco> hmm
[08:37] <jsgotangco> rob seems so confrontational on the xp thread in sounder..
[08:37] <jsgotangco> not good
[08:37] <Madpilot> the "MS marketing swill" post?
[08:38] <jsgotangco> yes something like that
[08:38] <jsgotangco> and the BSOD thing
[08:39] <dsas> "user preferences saved" 
[08:39] <Madpilot> it's an OS holy war - you can't expect entirely rational behaviour <j/k>
[08:39] <jsgotangco> yes
[08:39] <jsgotangco> but i'll just keep my mouth shut if a flame war is starting
[08:39] <jsgotangco> because some people have personalities that won't bow down to an opinion no matter what
[08:39] <Madpilot> dsas: so the wiki is co-operating with you now?
[08:40] <dsas> it seems so 
[08:40] <Madpilot> Aren't computers fun?
[08:40] <dsas> no idea what's changed, but it's working.
[08:41] <dsas> oh, it seems if I don't put any password in then they match but it takes ages to reload the page, but if I do put my LP password in they don't match and it doesn't work.
[08:43] <dsas> anyway, I must get going to work if I want to get a parking space. t'ra.
[09:04] <mdke> morning
[09:05] <Madpilot> hi mdke
[09:06] <mdke> Madpilot, so what do you think about this <procedure> thing? you think we should use it?
[09:07] <mdke> i'm not brilliantly keen
[09:07] <Madpilot> haven't tried it yet to see what it looks like, actually.
[09:07] <Madpilot> I'll have a look at it tomorrow night
[09:07] <jsgotangco> we'll probably get burned aesthetically, but its syntatically correct
[09:08] <mdke> well, if it doesn't improve the look, I really don't think we should do it
[09:08] <mdke> it will be a pain to convert the entire guide
[09:09] <Madpilot> mdke: so do I, unless the number of points is over 3 or so, then numbers make more sense...
[09:09] <mdke> they make sense, but look bad IMO
[09:09] <mdke> because they clash with the numbers in each section heading
[09:10] <Madpilot> true - with those long section headings, there's probably enough numbers floating around already - but numbered lists can be easier to follow than long bulletted lists
[09:10] <mdke> i guess that's true
[09:11] <mdke> we ought to be consistent
[09:11] <mdke> but if we're gonna use numbers, I'd rather use orderedlist, because we can use find/replace for that, whereas procedure would require serious time spent on rewriting
[09:11] <mdke> and i'd rather that time was spent on improving the guide, tbh
[09:12] <mdke> btw jsgotangco, i'll commit the edubuntu thing today, I didn't get to my computer yesterday, sorry again
[09:12] <jsgotangco> k
[09:21] <mdke> ->work
[10:13] <mdke> jsgotangco, ok the edubuntu stuff is on the website, have a look
[10:14] <jsgotangco> i see it now!
[10:14] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[10:14] <jsgotangco> release notes is a dud
[10:14] <jsgotangco> 404
[10:15] <mdke> ah, thanks
[10:16] <mdke> fixed
[10:37] <jsgotangco> thanks
[11:07] <jsgotangco> are we really sticking to gnome x-chat?
[04:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> i just had to install libxine-exracodecs before totem would play sound with my mpgs. did i just miss something in the doc, or is it not mentioned?
[04:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> just a tic , I'll grep
[04:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> hm. it's not there.
[04:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> anyone else need the file for audio? running dapper.
[05:34] <jsgotangco> hmm it seems rob and jjesse are starting a flamewar on windows
[05:34] <robotgeek> where jsgotangco ?
[05:34] <jsgotangco> sounder
[05:35] <robotgeek> ah, since it did'nt have "flamewar" in the subject, i probably missed it :)
[05:36] <jsgotangco> its that xp thread
[05:36] <robotgeek> yeah, foun it :)
[05:51] <jsgotangco> good night
[05:52] <robotgeek> night 
[07:01] <LaserJock> hi robotgeek 
[07:01] <LaserJock> hi theCore 
[07:01] <robotgeek> hey LaserJock , howdy
[07:01] <theCore> hello LaserJock 
[07:03] <theCore> LaserJock, I found a elegant way, how to integrate both a quick-howto and references  about the tools
[07:03] <LaserJock> theCore: yeah?
[07:04] <theCore> It was somehow painful for me to trash 200 lines of text, so decided to recycle them
[07:05] <theCore> I striped them up and added them with the tools descriptions
[07:09] <theCore> LaserJock, do you know good ref. about ./configure ?
[07:10] <theCore> hmm, maybe my solution isn't that elegant ... :/
[07:11] <LaserJock> theCore: not really, you might check out man pages even if there isn't anything grea on the web
[07:11] <theCore> I forgot about dependencies 
[07:11] <jjesse> mdke: ping?
[07:13] <LaserJock> jjesse: is there a reason why the fdl and ccbysa licenses are in kubuntu/libs/ ?
[07:14] <jjesse> not that i am aware of
[07:14] <jjesse> those are the ones that the kubuntu files use?
[07:15] <theCore> lol, "The Ubuntu Packaging Guide is based on the original work of: Alexandre Vassalotti", cool that's me!
[07:15] <robotgeek> jjesse: i think ridell put them there for removing xincludes, let me look up my logs
[07:15] <theCore> LaserJock, is it you that added this ?
[07:15] <LaserJock> theCore: I think so
[07:15] <LaserJock> theCore: you've worked on it
[07:16] <theCore> LaserJock, yeah, but it's written like I was more important that you
[07:17] <theCore> s/that/than/
[07:17] <robotgeek> jjesse: 17:27 < Riddell> robotgeek: I converted it to non-xincludes
[07:17] <theCore> LaserJock, I modified the OMF file a little bit
[07:17] <LaserJock> theCore: fine
[07:18] <robotgeek> 15:58 < Riddell> I'm not talking about content just now, but about changing from xincludes to old fashioned stuff that meinproc can understand
[07:19] <spz2> hi-
[07:19] <LaserJock> so it is to work with KDE better?
[07:19] <LaserJock> hi spz2 
[07:19] <spz2> ive been in and out of the irc channels tryin to get my install to work
[07:19] <spz2> not working
[07:19] <theCore> there is something that bother me a little bit, though. 
[07:19] <robotgeek> spz2: this is not a support channel, please ask in #ubuntu
[07:19] <spz2> ah ok
[07:21] <robotgeek> LaserJock: so that the reason they are there, though i don't quite understand them :)
[07:21] <LaserJock> ok, I just wondered
[07:21] <theCore> in the omf file, should I put myself as creator, maintainer, or contributor ?
[07:22] <LaserJock> contributor I think
[07:22] <theCore> ok, that what I did
[07:23] <theCore> Why the licence is GPL ? not FDL ?
[07:24] <LaserJock> because all the Debian docs are GPL and the Ubuntu Developer's Resource will be GPL as well
[07:24] <theCore> oh, ok
[07:24] <LaserJock> if we want to be able to share material amongst them the licenses need to be compatible
[07:25] <theCore> ok I send you the diff of the OMG file
[07:25] <LaserJock> great
[07:25] <theCore> actually I will send the whole file
[07:25] <LaserJock> fine
[07:36] <theCore> does the Wiki is down again ?
[07:37] <robotgeek> i think so, not able to access myself
[07:40] <bur[n] er> anyone have xserver-xgl and compiz kickin?
[07:41] <theCore> ok it is up again
[07:43] <LaserJock> bur[n] er: there is an ubuntu-devel-announce email todaqy about that
[07:43] <bur[n] er> thanks LaserJock... i'll check it out!
[07:48] <LaserJock> theCore: got your email
[07:50] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't know if the url should be changed or not?
[07:51] <LaserJock> I think that when ubuntu-docs is installed it is placed in /ubuntu/ not /generic/
[07:52] <theCore> oh, right I forgot I changed that url
[07:52] <theCore> revert it
[07:52] <theCore> I don't think it worth the trouble
[07:52] <LaserJock> theCore: where did you find the info for the <type> ?
[07:53] <theCore> there is an OMF manual in Yelp
[07:53] <LaserJock> oh
[07:54] <theCore> it is in Other Doc. >  Writing ScrollKeeper OMF Files
[07:58] <LaserJock> theCore: interesting, I'll have to see if I have yelp somwhere :-)
[08:01] <theCore> ok, gotta go
[08:01] <LaserJock> cya theCore 
[09:07] <glatzor> hi
[09:07] <LaserJock> hi
[09:08] <glatzor> what happend with the svn repo? i cannot connect to to docteam.u.c
[09:08] <LaserJock> sites have been on and off today
[09:08] <LaserJock> the wiki was down for a while and launchpad too
[09:09] <jjesse> power failure in datacenter
[09:09] <LaserJock> doc.ubuntu.com works for me now
[09:09] <jjesse> is what i heard
[09:09] <LaserJock> bummer
[09:10] <glatzor> this is sad. there is no mirror available?
[09:12] <LaserJock> I don't know of any, but don't think it will be down for too long
[10:00] <mdke> jjesse, I'm not around wrong, best to try email 
[10:00] <mdke> s/wrong/much *shrugs*