[12:35] <thekurst> hello?
[06:42] <santy> HOLA...
[08:07] <oliver_savage> Can anyone comment, are there easy to use tools for querying a cgi-bin on a public server? I'm trying to find an applications version number and type?
[08:09] <fabbione> oliver_savage: you are asking in the wrong chan really..
[08:09] <fabbione> this is #ubuntu stuff
[08:12] <oliver_savage> okay thanks
[02:19] <spike> anybody here heavily using checkinstall that can comment on its trustiness?
[02:19] <spike> I guess most of you if not all can do deb packaging, but I'm asking anyway
[07:59] <andriijas> how do i change keyboard layout?
[08:09] <spike> andriijas: in console I assume, loadkeys us
[08:13] <andriijas> dpkg-reconfigure console-data
[08:13] <andriijas> =)
[08:15] <spike> oh, that one, sorry :)
[08:15] <andriijas> hehe np
[08:15] <andriijas> how do i enable framebuffer?
[08:19] <spike> andriijas: u need the kernel module and vga option at boot time iirc, but I alwasy use my laptop for work, so I never really needed it
[08:19] <andriijas> hehe
[08:19] <spike> ssh'ing from 1280x1024 is just fine :)
[08:20] <andriijas> =)
[08:20] <spike> talking of res, first time I got a box with a radeon, and it's as shit as it was supposed to be :/
[08:20] <spike> it just doesnt work :(
[08:20] <andriijas> whats the proper line to add to sources.list to install drapper? (its a dev system)
[08:21] <andriijas> want to use lighttpd etc
[08:23] <Pygi> fabbione: ping
[08:25] <allee> andriijas: replace breezy with dapper in sources.list
[08:27] <andriijas> all this main restritec univese multiverse is confusing me
[08:28] <andriijas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AddingRepositoriesCliHowto  for example
[08:28] <andriijas> theres main restricted
[08:28] <andriijas> and theres universe multiverse
[08:28] <andriijas> but as i understand it you can add main multiverse universe as well?
[09:14] <andriijas> whats the difference between installing using default ubuntu inistall cd and selecting server install and using ubuntu-server cd ?
[10:08] <ubijtsa2> andriijas: the server CD will not have the desktop stuff, it will have a tailored kernel for server scenarios etc
[10:09] <andriijas> ubijtsa2: but using the default ubuntu cd you can type server
[10:09] <andriijas> and it doesnt install desktop stuff
[10:09] <ubijtsa2> 'server' there is a misnomere
[10:09] <andriijas> okey. thats what i thought =)
[10:09] <ubijtsa2> it should probably say "mini"
[10:10] <andriijas> time to wget the server cd and burn it then!
[10:10] <ubijtsa2> the dedicated server ISO will strip out the desktop stuff to give you more server apps on the CD (if I have understood it right)
[10:13] <andriijas> i tried a nighttly dapper server iso, didnt work :) so im going to install breezy server and apt update
[10:14] <ubijtsa2> dapper flight3 installs okay
[10:15] <andriijas> ubijtsa2: no big difference using breezy and apt upgrade than using flight3 and apt upgrade?
[10:15] <andriijas> or does it leave crap on hardrive?
[10:15] <ubijtsa2> makes little difference
[10:15] <andriijas> what difference?: S
[10:16] <ubijtsa2> but I had an 'interesting experience' with breezy->dapper yesterday
[10:16] <andriijas> really? i just did it in vmware without trouble
[10:16] <ubijtsa2> I finished putting my box together again this morning
[10:16] <andriijas> flight3 != ubuntu server
[10:17] <ubijtsa2> true :)
[10:17] <andriijas> im notusing ubuntu for desktop. only for server=)
[10:17] <andriijas> ruby on rails development
[10:17] <ubijtsa2> I use kubuntu for both
[10:17] <LordHunter317> the sever kernels aren't tailored either.
[10:17] <andriijas> hehe
[10:17] <LordHunter317> they're the exact same kernels you see in APT.
[10:17] <LordHunter317> the only difference is that the installer will kick in an SMP kernel for you.
[10:18] <LordHunter317> and it carries it on the disk, obviously.
[10:18] <ubijtsa2> the final ones should be different though, right. HZ and PREEMPT etc
[10:18] <LordHunter317> no.
[10:18] <LordHunter317> they're identical.
[10:18] <LordHunter317> it literally installs the same package-- there is no linux-image-2.6-server or anything like that.
[10:19] <ubijtsa2> I was under the impression there'd be a 'server' kernel
[10:19] <andriijas> LordHunter317: true
[10:19] <LordHunter317> ubijtsa: why?
[10:19] <ubijtsa2> no moment, not a biggie compiling something more server like
[10:19] <LordHunter317> how?
[10:19] <LordHunter317> the default kernel is perfectrly server like.
[10:19] <andriijas> LordHunter317: so there is NO difference using server install cd or using default cd using server installation?
[10:20] <LordHunter317> andriijas: only in what's on the disk (i.e., packages you can install from it) and maybe in the kernel it'll install for you at bootup.
[10:20] <LordHunter317> it's not like teh apache package on the server disk is different from the one in the repositories.
[10:20] <LordHunter317> it's purely for installation convience.  I wish they'd just release a Debian-like bootstrap cd.
[10:20] <ubijtsa2> on a server you usually don't want too high a HZ and you don't want preempt. to small timeslice and you spend more time in scheduler that doing work
[10:20] <LordHunter317> ubijtsa: no, not true.
[10:20] <ubijtsa2> than, not that
[10:21] <LordHunter317> I/O bound serving, especially highly-parallel (i.e., java) will benefit immensely from both.
[10:21] <andriijas> because I jsut did a clean install via ubuntu default breezy cd and upgraded it to dapper bleeding edge
[10:21] <LordHunter317> as it means less forced kernel interrupts and lower latency.
[10:21] <ubijtsa2> hmm. I better tell IBM they taught me wrong then...
[10:21] <andriijas> and if theres any difference beeing in the server branch i would rather be in that one
[10:21] <LordHunter317> as a rule, you shouldn't be touching kernel parameters at all until you have a performance problem.
[10:21] <andriijas> of course the apache packages are the same
[10:22] <LordHunter317> evne then, recompiling your kernel is usually drastic and not necessary.
[10:22] <ubijtsa2> and I should point out to Linus they can strip some settings out of 2.6.15 and later..
[10:22] <andriijas> but i read about central ssl managment etc
[10:22] <andriijas> so theres maybe other packages in the server dist
[10:22] <LordHunter317> ubijtsa: such as?
[10:22] <ubijtsa2> such as the settings SERVER, WORKSTATION and DESKTOP
[10:23] <ubijtsa2> if it don't matter, why have them
[10:23] <andriijas> LordHunter317: so what should i do, reinstall with server cd or stick with what i got?
[10:23] <LordHunter317> i'd stick with what you have.
[10:23] <LordHunter317> ubijtsa2: because it can matter in some cases.
[10:24] <LordHunter317> and there are other things to tune that make a big difference.
[10:24] <LordHunter317> killing preempt and HZ aren't two of them, however, usually.
[10:24] <LordHunter317> i'll make execptions for things like Oracle, and even postgresql, on the server, as two big cases.
[10:24] <ubijtsa2> high HZ is only needed on a desktop really, to increase apparent responsiveness..
[10:25] <LordHunter317> ubijtsa: high HZ is almost universally good.
[10:25] <andriijas> whats HZ and preempt?
[10:25] <LordHunter317> unless you have some reason to want a short-time slice, i.e., sharing tasks between users.
[10:25] <LordHunter317> on a single-task system, it makes almost no difference, except reducing how often the kernel interrupts.
[10:25] <LordHunter317> which is a good thing for CPU-bound, liekly irrelevant for I/O-bound.
[10:26] <andriijas> semaphore->P();
[10:27] <LordHunter317> almost every distributor these deals tells you not to.
[10:27] <ubijtsa2> worked well in past, will work well in future, and will keep me up2date on the settings in the kernel
[10:27] <LordHunter317> certainly RH doesnt' want me touching my RHEL boxes without cause.
[10:27] <ubijtsa2> ever tried compiling their server kernel?
[10:27] <LordHunter317> yes.
[10:27] <ubijtsa2> no wonder they tell you not to
[10:28] <LordHunter317> well, and it makes their job all the harder.
[10:28] <ubijtsa2> nightmare I tell you :)
[10:28] <ubijtsa2> RH is a pile of poo anyway.. SLES is better if you want to pay lots
[10:29] <LordHunter317> not for the systems I was running.
[10:29] <LordHunter317> It was SGI ProPack or nothing.
[10:29] <ubijtsa2> FreeBSD, Debian and Ubuntu if you know what you want
[10:29] <LordHunter317> and you can run HP or stand  not being supported.
[10:30] <andriijas> what has freebsd to do with this?
[10:31] <ubijtsa2> andriijas: being better than RH
[10:31] <andriijas> RH=?
[10:31] <andriijas> redhat?
[10:31] <ubijtsa2> naturally Ubuntu is better than *BSD :)
[10:31] <ubijtsa2> da
[10:32] <LordHunter317> i'd hardly say FreeBSD is better than RH.
[10:32] <andriijas> i like bsd but i dont like to compile all shit
[10:32] <andriijas> because i just want a working system to do webdeveloping on
[10:32] <LordHunter317> FreeBSD: Making 4 processors systems act like 1 processor systems since 5.x!
[10:33] <andriijas> lighttpd-mod-mysql-vhost wants to install libmysqlclient14 but im using mysql 5.0 would it work anyway you think?
[10:34] <ubijtsa2> RedHat: We insult prospective employees as a matter of course, and oh yeah, we make a Linux distro that will make you cry if you spend ten minutes or more using..
[10:34] <LordHunter317> RH is hardly cry worthy.
[10:34] <andriijas> enough trolling already? :P
[10:34] <LordHunter317> fustrating, perhaps.
[10:34] <LordHunter317> but I can think of far worse things.
[10:34] <LordHunter317> HP-UX, AIX, Solaris, Tru64.
[10:34] <ubijtsa2> So, we each have favourites and pet hates..
[10:35] <LordHunter317> andriijas: likely.
[10:35] <andriijas> slackware?
[10:35] <andriijas> =D
[10:35] <ubijtsa2> not done much on Tru64 or HP-UX, cut my teeth on Solaris, but worked with AIX for years
[10:35] <andriijas> i dont like RH either. but i dont waste my time flaming it
[10:36] <ubijtsa2> Xenix was interesting.. and SCO was...unusual..
[10:38] <LordHunter317> my biggest grip with RH as of late is the the whole Mono thing.
[10:38] <LordHunter317> especialyl sine as soon as I get this job done, I intend to try Nemerele.