[12:24] <mjg59> crimsun: Around?
[12:26] <mjg59> sladen: Are you collecting mechanisms for signalling tablet rotation?
[12:27] <sladen> mjg59: trying, it needs tying into gdm, so that GDM shows a on-screen keyboard in flipped mode
[12:27] <ajmitch> morning
[12:27] <sladen> mjg59: I couldn't find it on the tosh I was hunting down---any suggestions
[12:27] <sladen> mjg59: windows seems to know the difference
[12:27] <mjg59> sladen: Portege? Yeah, I've got code somewhere
[12:27] <mjg59> Or rather, elmo has it right now
[12:27] <mjg59> sladen: Needs to listen for an ACPI signal (that isn't currently passed through by the kernel, so I was using /dev/acpi) and then read a bit from memory to get the status
[12:28] <sladen> mjg59: ah.  Sounds like you got that one covered then...
[12:29] <jsgotangco> morning
[12:29] <mjg59> sladen: With some amount of pain, yeah. May just end up writing a small kernel module (once I get the machine back)
[12:30] <mjg59> sladen: But in general I think we want it to be something that hal can notice and set on the screen device
[12:30] <mjg59> Hrm. Despite all the ac97 registers being identical over suspend/resume, this machine refuses to make any noise through the speakers afterwards
[12:30] <mjg59> But will still work through headphones
[12:31] <mjg59> If it needs some sort of hardware magic, I will be very unhappy
[12:43] <sladen> mjg59: what type of machine is it?
[12:44] <sladen> mjg59: hint, thinkpad-keys, I had to downgrade it for a demo yesterday of that fact that Ubuntu 'just worked'...
[12:44] <mjg59> sladen: This? HP 6220
[12:44] <mjg59> sladen: I've requested a sync
[12:44] <mjg59> I'm not going to upload an identical package
[12:45] <sladen> elmo: plz syncage hotkey-setup, matthew will get turned on
[12:45] <xerox_> Is there any documentation about making ubuntu .debs from the ground up?
[12:46] <neuralis> xerox_: debian new maintainer's guide, MOTU school, etc
[12:46] <sladen> xerox_: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/208
[12:51] <xerox_> Thank you.
[01:04] <SAAD3000> Developers in the next release of ubuntu i would suggest to work on the network flows that it suffers in 5.10
[01:05] <sladen> mjg59:  http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/upload/ibm-zoom.sh  if you can work out how to map the keypress to executing /etc/acpi/ibm-zoom.sh
[01:06] <mjg59> With pain
[01:07] <mjg59> Really needs to be done by something in the user session
[01:08] <daemon2> Good evening
[01:09] <daemon2> or night
[01:09] <daemon2> or whatever
[01:11] <daemon2> I have a RTL 8139 network card, onboard in an ASUS 5028, if I reboot from XP to Linux it works OK, but if I shut down, and then turn it on it is not working. Can not figure it out why. Autonegotiation does not succeed. already tried fixed 10/100 HD/FD modes manually. No luck. The machine on the other end of the cable says Network Cable unplugged.
[01:11] <Burgwork> daemon2, that is a #ubuntu question. Please ask it there
[01:12] <daemon2> From a cold start it sometimes works, sometimes not
[01:13] <daemon2> for example today in the morning worked like a charm
[01:17] <Burgwork> daemon2, -devel is for your general solution to a specific bug, not that the bug itself
[01:18] <daemon2> oj
[01:18] <daemon2> oh
[01:18] <daemon2> sorry
[01:18] <Burgwork> daemon2, no problem
[01:23] <tseng> infinity: awakeish?
[01:25] <tseng> infinity: we could use some mass give-backs on things waiting for mono on ppc
[01:25] <tseng> infinity: probably mono-jit actually
[01:34] <fbond> siretart: you there?
[02:07] <infinity> tseng: Yeah, we sure could.  Do you have a list of package you're specifically interesting in seeing given back?
[02:08] <tseng> infinity: hm let me see
[02:08] <tseng> infinity: is there a better way to approach this than apt-cache rdepends mono-jit
[02:09] <tseng> infinity: and cut that down into sources
[02:10] <infinity> tseng: Shell loops and grep-dctrl tend to be my friends.
[02:11] <infinity> I can do it in a bit, but right now I'm a bit swamped.
[02:11] <infinity> So whatever you can do to get there faster, the better.
[02:15] <ogra> hmm
[02:15] <jsgotangco> ogra!
[02:15] <ogra> no /sbin in path on the install CD ...
[02:15] <ogra> i thought that was liveCD specific
[02:20] <mdz> ogra: please file a high-priority bug and assign to tollef
[02:22] <ogra> mdke, he is aware of it, was working with Kamion on it today  ... but i didnt know it also occurs on the install cd ... will look for the bug and follow up
[02:22] <ogra> s/mdke/mdz/
[02:22] <mdz> if it's not fixed soon, we will need to roll back that feature
[02:22] <mdz> it has been weeks
[02:23] <ogra> oh, i didnt know ...
[02:23] <mdz> it was broken at the sprint
[02:24] <ogra> mdz, what do you think about always defaulting ltsp-build-client to i386 on amd64 ... i think we can ignore it for now and i dont need to fiddle with preseeding for amd64 CDs ...
[02:24] <mdz> ogra: defaulting to i386 on amd64 sounds reasonable
[02:25] <ogra> fine :) will add that to ltsp-build-client then :)
[02:25] <mdz> ogra: by the way, please don't waste time on powerpc until the targets for dapper are all complete
[02:25] <mdz> those are much more important
[02:25] <ogra> it broke the CD and i had it locally anyway ...
[02:25] <ogra> the last upload was only copy and paste
[02:28] <ogra> launchpad builds feel a lot slower than the old buildds ... i guess that due to the different crontab runs ...
[02:31] <infinity> Yeah, the whole process is a bit slower.
[02:32] <infinity> 60 minutes cron.daily instead of 30, plus a few other delays.
[02:32] <ogra> yup...
[02:33] <ogra> will that speed up at some point ? 
[02:34] <mdz> ogra: yes
[02:34] <infinity> Well, I'm campaigning for ACCEPTED autobuilding, which we kinda need for dapper-security, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it happening really soon.
[02:35] <infinity> I understand that cron.daily is supposed to happen more frequently, though.
[02:35] <mdz> but meanwhile, functional problems are higher priority than perceived slowness
[02:35] <ogra> then i'm fine ... its hard to do planning if you want to do a cdimage run ...
[02:35] <mdz> infinity: I thought soyuz built from accepted naturally
[02:35] <infinity> mdz: Then it has a funny idea of "accepted", compared to dak.
[02:36] <mdz> infinity: I thought source could be built as soon as it was accepted, rather than needing to wait to be published in the archive
[02:36] <mdz> s/to be/for it &/
[02:36] <infinity> mdz: In theory, it could be (since it's pushed directly to the buildds, not downloaded from an archive), but the build queues are built by cron.daily.
[02:37] <mdz> infinity: then so long as they're built after accepting packages in the cron.daily run, we should get the desired behaviour
[02:37] <infinity> But the real interesting use case for ACCEPTED autobuilding isn't "build source from ACCEPTED" (though that's a useful side effect), it's "build source against binaries that are in ACCEPTED"
[02:37] <infinity> And it certainly won't do THAT.
[02:37] <mdz> true enough
[02:37] <infinity> (That's required for multi-binary, inter-dependant security releases, as well as just plain old faster turnaround on mass uploads)
[02:38] <infinity> Watch it, LRM fights back.
[02:42] <tseng> infinity: can i /msg you my list?
[02:42] <infinity> tseng: Please do.
[02:43] <ogra> mdz, bug 31716 filed 
[02:43] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31716 in Ubuntu "PATH only contains /bin:/usr/bin on new installs" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31716
[02:43] <infinity> mdz: Speaking of LRM, can we get yet another UVF exception for yet another fglrx update?  hey released a new one about two days after mt last upload.
[02:43] <tseng> infinity: thanks muchly
[02:44] <infinity> s/hey/They/
[02:44] <infinity> tseng: I'll unmangle all this stuff in the next hour.  Thanks for tracking it down.
[02:44] <ajmitch> infinity: thanks for sorting that
[02:45] <tseng> thanks ajmitch for the grep-dctrl schooling
[02:45] <ogra> do i smell a mono for my ibook ? 
[02:45] <tseng> ogra: yeah you do
[02:45] <ogra> YAY !!!!
[02:45] <tseng> ogra: send your love to Kamion 
[02:45] <tseng> ogra: for the hack of the day
[02:45] <ogra> f-spot finally beck in the archive :)
[02:45] <ogra> *back
[02:45] <tseng> seb wants to put it in desktop asap
[02:46] <ogra> once you used it you get addicted :)
[02:46] <infinity> tseng: so, colour me curious, what was broken with mono on ppc64?
[02:46] <ogra> i really cant manage my pics with gthumb anymore :)
[02:46] <tseng> infinity: parallelism issue only on 64 bit smp
[02:46] <jsgotangco> that's really nice
[02:46] <tseng> infinity: still no lead on the real cause
[02:46] <jsgotangco> f-spot+compiz drool
[02:46] <tseng> infinity: we are doing sched_setaffinity to avoid the second cpu
[02:47] <tseng> infinity: in mono-mini, its just for bootstrapping
[02:47] <ajmitch> ogra: hopefully f-spot 0.1.9 once it gets a UVF exception
[02:47] <ogra> jsgotangco, if you point the edubuntu liveCD to people, you should probably tell them where they find it there are only working daylies  ;)
[02:47] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: what overlap could there be with f-spot & compiz though?
[02:48] <jsgotangco> ogra, oh yeah....
[02:48] <jsgotangco> ogra, i think the guy tried getting the meta
[02:48] <ogra> jsgotangco, yup 
[02:49] <ogra> the current daily is fine for all arches ... install amd64 and ppc are broken but i386 is good ...
[02:49] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, just more bling for the endless quest of the perfect bling desktop
[02:49] <jsgotangco> ogra, yeah amd64 install is still oh well
[02:49] <jsgotangco> i'll rsync an i386 later
[02:49] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: heh
[02:50] <ogra> jsgotangco, yes, i missed that linux-image-amd64 doesnt exist ... it must be amd64-generic ... 
[02:50] <ogra> silly mistake 
[02:51] <jsgotangco> ubuntu amd64 is going well though
[02:51] <ogra> and already fixed ... i'll trigger a new install build after i got up tomorrow, that should at least unbreal ltsp chroot builds for all arches
[02:51] <ogra> *unbreak
[02:52] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[02:52] <jsgotangco> the initial f-spot folder search doesn't play nicely with expose though (compiz)
[02:55] <mdz> infinity: yes
[02:56] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: no surprise, there are plenty of bugs in compiz :)
[02:56] <jsgotangco> yeah
[02:57] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, this would still look good for the school talk next week heh
[02:58] <ajmitch> sure
[02:58] <ajmitch> I guess the init patch won't be done by end of work today, and no net access over the weekend
[02:59] <Riddell> Kamion: all 6 kubuntu CDs from 2006-02-16 are good 
[02:59] <jsgotangco> Riddell, i've tested kubuntu amd64 last night btw, its good
[02:59] <jsgotangco> (install/live)
[03:02] <Riddell> jsgotangco: great thanks
[03:50] <ogra> infinity, could you push the button for a fresh edubuntu livefs build ?
[03:51] <infinity> Any particular arch you're testing on?
[03:51] <infinity> (note that the dailies will build in about 3 hours anyway)
[03:51] <ogra> powerpc was oversized, i shuffled the langpacks over the arches a bit
[03:52] <ogra> hmm, the livefs gets built after the daily-live CD ?
[03:55] <infinity> Just before, in theory.  Unless someone's cron-fu has gotten messed up...
[03:55] <ogra> the got build 3h ago according to the timestamp of the isos
[03:56] <ogra> and i want to stanr a fresh iso if i get up ...
[03:56] <ogra> *start
[03:56] <ogra> god, my typing gets wonky ...
[03:57] <infinity> Oh, they're staggered.
[03:57] <infinity> I never checked the crontab on little...
[03:57] <infinity> I should stagger the livefs builds to match the ISO builds, I guess.
[03:57] <ogra> heh, yes, would make sense ...
[03:58] <ogra> even though i belive tollef does them manually anyway ...
[03:58] <infinity> Well, we all do the occasional manual livefs build when testing stuff, but the dailies are still built for a valid reason.
[03:59] <infinity> And when Tollef isn't doing livecd stuff 24/7 (which will hopefully be soon), he'll have less motivation to do 12 manual builds per day. :)
[03:59] <ogra> heh
[03:59] <infinity> Anyhow.  I'll thwack some edubuntu builds for you now.
[04:00] <ogra> thanks ... take your time ...
[04:00] <ogra> i'll need them in 6-8h ...
[04:00] <ogra> as long as the current seeds are on them :)
[04:01] <infinity> Err, how current?
[04:02] <infinity> (And did you update edubuntu-meta?)
[04:02] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-dapper/live
[04:02] <ogra> for live ? 
[04:02] <ogra> this current ...
[04:02] <infinity> We use the metapackages in the livefs builds, we don't use the seeds directly.
[04:02] <infinity> This is kinda intentional, to make sure the meta packages aren't broken. :)
[04:02] <ogra> ARGH ... i'm to tired
[04:03] <ogra> i'll do that now ...
[04:06] <jsgotangco> ogra, you gotta sleep man
[04:06] <infinity> Sleep is for the weak!
[04:06] <ogra> jsgotangco, yes, but i want at least have everything prepared for tomorrow :)
[04:06] <jsgotangco> oh my
[04:06] <ogra> and what infinity said :)
[04:06] <jsgotangco> i smell flight4
[04:07] <infinity> Hrm, I have an initramfs fix to get in before flight4.  Thanks for the reminder.
[04:07] <ogra> i'm just waiting for ltsp 0.74 to get copied in the archive to trigger a new install CD ...
[04:07] <jsgotangco> ogra, if a build can be triggered in a few hours...i can grab the image
[04:08] <ogra> jsgotangco, it still wont fix amd64 ... i have no clue why its oversized ...
[04:09] <ogra> and if i cant sort it out tomorrow, edubuntu flight 4 wont have a proper amd64 ..
[04:09] <jsgotangco> 9 issues with amd64....
[04:09] <jsgotangco> hmmm debhelper is new
[04:09] <ogra> in fact there are 10 ... i removed apache2 already
[04:10] <ogra> which was only for testing ...
[04:10] <infinity> What's wrong with apache2?
[04:10] <jsgotangco> live looks fine though
[04:10] <ogra> nothing
[04:10] <jsgotangco> eekk ppc live is oversized
[04:11] <ogra> infinity, the amd64 install CD is oversized and usually things like apache fall off in report.html ...
[04:11] <infinity> Ahh, just oversize issues.  I see.
[04:11] <ogra> jsgotangco, already fixed ... just waiting for a fresh metapackage and build
[04:11] <jsgotangco> ok
[04:11] <ajmitch> ogra: and you're already using 700MB images, right?
[04:12] <ogra> yup
[04:12] <ogra> but amd64 chokes at 690 ... and i have no idea why
[04:14] <jsgotangco> ogra, ok do you still need test results? x86 looks ok though...
[04:14] <ogra> so lets see if i busted amd64 and i386 live now :)
[04:15] <ogra> x86 was fine here too ... i added some language packs now ...
[04:15] <ogra> lets see how that evolves :)
[04:15] <ogra> gah ... still no ltsp 0.74
[04:17] <ogra> i could fly to london, copy it on a floppy and carry it from the buildd to the archive in that time ...
[04:18] <ogra> 2.5h since upload ...
[04:18] <ogra> it even fits on a floppy ..
[04:19] <jsgotangco> are you still on isdn?
[04:19] <ogra> nop
[04:19] <ogra> i wouldnt do iso stuff on isdn ...
[04:20] <ogra> but a flight to london takes 1h from here ... 
[04:20] <infinity> It built, so I dunno why it's not in the archive yet...
[04:20] <ogra> the cronjobs are a lot slower ... 
[04:20] <ogra> all of them ...
[04:20] <infinity> mdz: Still around?  How do you feel about me merging initramfs-tools with Debian, which is finally close to in sync with us?
[04:21] <ogra> i noted that before and try not to complain to much :)
[04:21] <ajmitch> ogra: no new binaries?
[04:22] <ogra> nope
[04:22] <ogra> 0.73 was uploaded 30min before ... they are in the archive already ...
[04:22] <ogra> (longer than 30min though)
[04:23] <ajmitch> trying to get access to the data centre at this hour might take a bit longer though 
[04:23] <ogra> true ...
[04:24] <infinity> It looks like it's in the archive to me...
[04:24] <ogra> but would be worth a try ... if only to see elmos face if i ring him out of bed to hand out a floppy with 4 binaries :)
[04:24] <infinity> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/ltsp/
[04:24] <ogra> yup
[04:25] <ogra> since <2min 
[04:25] <ogra> great ...
[04:27] <ogra> infinity, can you wait with the livefs until -meta has built ? 
[04:27] <infinity> s/wait/try again/  Yeah.
[04:27] <ogra> oki, night all ...
[04:27] <ogra> jsgotangco, there should be new install crack to test in about 20 min if you want :)
[04:28] <jsgotangco> would x86 suffice?
[04:28] <infinity> Any testing is better than no testing.
[04:28] <jsgotangco> it seems we'll still have amd64 oversizing
[04:28] <ogra> sure, but that would only be regression testing ...
[04:29] <ogra> which is unlikely to happen, but you never know :)
[04:29] <jsgotangco> okay
[05:04] <jsgotangco> ogra, hmmm i see a 17.1 now
[05:10] <jsgotangco> ogra, i'll update to 20060217.1 it seems to be available now
[06:56] <dholbach> good morning
[06:56] <Burglaptop> morning dholbach
[06:57] <dholbach> hey Burglaptop
[07:36] <pitti> Good morning
[07:37] <ajmitch> morning
[07:38] <Burglaptop> morning] 
[08:41] <infinity> Who broke utmp handling in dapper?  Both "w" and "who" tell me there's no one logged in on my machine.
[08:41] <robitaille> infinity:  works fine here
[08:42] <infinity> Bizarre.
[08:44] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[08:44] <jsgotangco> confirmed
[08:44] <jsgotangco> cool im a ghost
[08:44] <robitaille> humm..that's weird. works here.  And I'm up to date
[08:45] <jsgotangco> i'm using yesterday's build then updated
[08:45] <robitaille> maybe it's an access problem with /var/log/wtmp ?
[08:46] <infinity> It's readable for me, which is all one should need.
[09:01] <dholbach> infinity: works for me too
[09:03] <janimo> pitti, if you get to xfdesktop within the next hour or two please take it directly from pool as it did not build yet so apt-get source would get you the old package.
[09:03] <jsgotangco> infinity, 16:02:53 up  8:50,  0 users,  load average: 0.44, 0.42, 0.34
[09:03] <janimo> maybe you always take from pool in which case I shut up ;)
[09:03] <pitti> Hi janimi
[09:03] <pitti> janimo even :)
[09:04] <janimo> :)
[09:04] <pitti> janimo: funny, I was just looking for you
[09:04] <pitti> yes, I'm just looking at it
[09:04] <dholbach> janimo: could it be that xubuntu is in a state of limbo atm?
[09:04] <janimo> I must have sensed it
[09:04] <pitti> janimo: any idea about this:
[09:04] <janimo> dholbach, 100% true
[09:04] <dholbach> janimo: that's what i thought :)
[09:04] <pitti> gtk2-engines-xfce |    2.2.8-1 | dapper/universe | source
[09:04] <pitti> gtk2-engines-xfce | 2.3.0cvs20050306-2 | dapper/universe | amd64, i386, powerpc
[09:04] <pitti> janimo: ^ where is the latest source?
[09:05] <janimo> pitti, hmm let me check
[09:05] <pitti> oh, so xfdesktop 4 is FTBFS?
[09:05] <pitti> I can't approve it that way
[09:05] <janimo> pitti, I just uploaded a fix , but it's ok to wait till it works then
[09:06] <pitti> ok, WFM
[09:06] <pitti> +       pkill -USR1 -f xfce-mcs-manager || true
[09:06] <janimo> pitti, that's what the debian maintainers put in.
[09:07] <janimo> that snippet is in many xfce packages to restart the config manager to reload settings
[09:08] <pitti> well, if it restarts automatically, it's probably ok
[09:08] <janimo> pitti, yes it's a restart not a real kill AIUI
[09:09] <janimo> pitti, how did you get those gtk-engines info? which command?
[09:10] <pitti> janimo: madison
[09:10] <pitti> janimo: you can get something similar with apt-cache madison gtk2-engines-xfce
[09:10] <janimo> thanks
[09:10] <pitti> (only for your architecture, though)
[09:11] <pitti> ah, wait
[09:11] <pitti> it seems that the source has been renamed
[09:11] <pitti> or so
[09:11] <pitti> gtk2-engines-xfce | 2.3.0cvs20050306-2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Packages
[09:11] <pitti> gtk-xfce-engine | 2.3.0cvs20050306-2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Sources
[09:11] <pitti> that seems to match
[09:11] <janimo> I think I did not touch that package so far 
[09:12] <janimo> you can skip it then while I look at it, thanks
[09:12] <pitti> yep, package rename
[09:12] <pitti> fine then
[09:12] <janimo> it seems it's another non-essential package which is form the non-debian upstream since hoary
[09:14] <vmlintu> hi pitti, ogra on the #ltsp channel said to ask you for more information about alsa file pipes and how to use them in network setting
[09:15] <pitti> vmlintu: uh, ALSA is not really network-capable
[09:15] <pitti> s/really/at all/
[09:16] <vmlintu> pitti: that was my understanding also, but he was talking about some weird possibility of piping the alsa traffic to a file and piping that through an ssh tunnel to a remote host
[09:17] <pitti> vmlintu: yes, that was a pretty crackful idea we talked about in some LTSP BoF
[09:17] <pitti> vmlintu: but I thought esd worked much better?
[09:17] <vmlintu> pitti: the reason I'm asking is because I need to get remote sound working for java
[09:18] <vmlintu> pitti: I was working on esd plugin for jre but this sounded like it could fix some other applications as well
[09:18] <pitti> vmlintu: well, I never tried this idea, it just came to my mind back then, but I discarded it as too crackful
[09:19] <pitti> however, feel free to try it, maybe it works ;)
[09:20] <vmlintu> pitti: maybe I pass for now, it sounds just too extreme right now :)
[09:20] <vmlintu> pitti: getting java sounds working in ltsp is enough for me now
[09:23] <pitti> Riddell: keep is not in ubuntu ATM, so I can't approve it
[09:24] <janimo> pitti, thanks a lot for the reviews :)
[09:24] <pitti> you're welcome
[09:24] <phlaegel> anybody know what kind of shape the recent daily install cds are in? I'm going to do a fresh install tomorrow...
[09:24] <pitti> phlaegel: I tested ppc and amd64 yesterday, went smoothly
[09:24] <phlaegel> yesterday being the 16th?
[09:25] <janimo> should be good as flight 5 is approching
[09:25] <pitti> 4 :)
[09:25] <Mithrandir> flight 4, but yeah
[09:25] <pitti> phlaegel: yes
[09:25] <fabbione> sladen: please stop filing duplicate bugs. kthxbye
[09:25] <phlaegel> sounds good enough for me... I'll give the daily a shot. thanks
[09:25] <janimo> well flight 5 is approaching too it's only further away ;)
[09:26] <Mithrandir> janimo: silly you. :-P
[09:30] <minghua> Does flight CDs have a fixed release schedule?
[09:30] <minghua> I can't find related information
[09:30] <Kamion> no, they don't
[09:31] <Kamion> we generally shoot for every two weeks and hit about every four ;-)
[09:31] <Kamion> (just because preparing them is so time-consuming, and dependent on the archive being sane)
[09:31] <minghua> oh, nice plan :-)
[09:31] <minghua> thanks Kamion
[09:40] <pitti> janimo: gqview has a patch which does s/firefox/mozilla-firefox/; can you please revert that?
[09:40] <janimo> pitti, ok will do
[09:41] <pitti> janimo: (it's in the package diff.gz, which is pretty messy)
[09:41] <pitti> thanks
[09:41] <janimo> pitti, I haven't touched that package :)
[09:41] <pitti> I know, I didn't blame you :)
[09:41] <janimo> it;s not xfce per se just the most appropriate gtk viewer so far :)
[09:41] <pitti> janimo: I'm just throwing the fixing work at you :)
[09:41] <janimo> good
[09:42] <pitti> yes, it's slim, uses gtk2, and faaast
[09:42] <janimo> there's another gimageview which some people proposed, nice too
[10:17] <jsgotangco> ogra, hmmm edubuntu amd64 looks good it went past chroot...now installing
[10:17] <jsgotangco> 20060217.1
[10:17] <ogra> yay
[10:17] <ogra> at least my bugfix worked :)
[10:17] <ogra> even i still dont know why its oversized ...
[10:17] <jsgotangco> is it?
[10:18] <ogra> there is still cruft in the report.html file
[10:18] <jsgotangco> 9
[10:18] <jsgotangco> hmmm lsb
[10:19] <ogra> yup.... the typical mess of an oversized iso ... alien, debhelper ...
[10:19] <jsgotangco> ahh
[10:22] <jsgotangco> ogra, can you release an oversized iso for milestone?
[10:23] <ogra> jsgotangco, if it installs i dont care... but it would be nicer to not have it oversized
[10:23] <jsgotangco> i think this will be successful already at 50% installing
[10:24] <Kamion> oversized up to 700MB is fine for milestones, but beyond 700MB isn't
[10:24] <Kamion> >700MB vastly reduces the number of people who'll actually be able to burn it
[10:24] <jsgotangco> ahh
[10:24] <ogra> Kamion, any hint why that happens ? 
[10:25] <ogra> its 690MB 
[10:25] <jsgotangco> 690MB at the moment
[10:25] <ogra> and i cant see anything that might cause 10MB
[10:25] <jsgotangco> PPC is 1MB less
[10:25] <ogra> i even dropped a bunch of stuff ...
[10:25] <jsgotangco> 61%....
[10:28] <Kamion> ogra: you can investigate as well as I can
[10:28] <Kamion> I have a lot of other things to do, and I'm afraid I don't have time to investigate Edubuntu things on top of everything else
[10:28] <ogra> oki, i'll try to find out ..
[10:28] <Kamion> look in the CD build logs, search for "CD 2"
[10:29] <JaneW> does anyone know if CACertInclusion is something that is still wanted? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BOFs/CACertInclusion
[10:29] <ogra> thanks ... thats the hint i needed :)
[10:29] <JaneW> a spec stub was created at UDU, but it hasn;t been fleshed out further since...
[10:29] <pitti> JaneW: sounds interesting
[10:29] <jsgotangco> JaneW, that guy was from sydney i remember him
[10:29] <ogra> yup
[10:29] <Kamion> grr, Keybuk rsync-pushed to the seeds and broke stuff
[10:29] <ogra> he handed out certs to everybody
[10:30] <JaneW> pitti: someone is interested in getting involved with it...
[10:30] <jsgotangco> its about adding the root cert to firefox or something i think
[10:30] <jsgotangco> err not root
[10:32] <Kamion> bzr get dapper dapper-fixed; mv dapper dapper-broken; mv dapper-fixed dapper
[10:32] <Kamion> there
[10:39] <jsgotangco> ogra, stage 1 done
[10:39] <HiddenWolf> who patched in the grub artwork?
[10:39] <ogra> HiddenWolf, mvo
[10:39] <ogra> jsgotangco, yay
[10:39] <jsgotangco> ogra, amd64 is in business
[10:39] <ogra> cool :)
[10:39] <HiddenWolf> ah, great, now I can't use grub anymore. ;)
[10:40] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: why? your nvidia is acting up?
[10:40] <HiddenWolf> Treenaks: garbled colors
[10:40] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: buy proper hardware :)
[10:40] <HiddenWolf> Treenaks: looks like an lsd-trip
[10:40] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: I have no idea, how do those look?
[10:41] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:42] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: just because I'm telling you the truth about proper hardware?
[10:43] <HiddenWolf> Treenaks: no, because I feel like it. ;)
[10:44] <fabbione> seb128, dholbach: ping?
[10:44] <dholbach> fabbione: pong
[10:44] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: CoC :P
[10:45] <HiddenWolf> Treenaks: you love me anyway. :) And my hardware is perfectly proper. :)
[10:45] <fabbione> dholbach: problem: fresh i386 dapper install. /home on local fs -> gdm login ok.
[10:45] <seb128> fabbione: pong
[10:45] <fabbione> dholbach: mount /home from server. -> gdm login goes on.. it starts to load nautilus. everything stops loading.
[10:45] <ogra> wow ...
[10:45] <fabbione> seb128 as above
[10:45] <ogra> jsgotangco, have a look at the new liveCD 
[10:46] <fabbione> dholbach, seb128: note: this works from the dapper amd64 install i have on the other disk and it has been working for about... 7 yeras
[10:46] <jsgotangco> ogra, ok
[10:46] <fabbione> what do you need to understand why something is hanging?
[10:46] <dholbach> fabbione: does strace or gdb say anything interesting?
[10:47] <fabbione> dholbach: strace or gdb of what? gnome spawns 248756746547 processes
[10:47] <ogra> jsgotangco, its shrinked so it even nearly fits on 650MB :)
[10:47] <dholbach> fabbione: you referred to nautilus, that's the first I thought of
[10:47] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[10:47] <jsgotangco> nice....
[10:48] <jsgotangco> ppc is still oversided...
[10:48] <jsgotangco> s/oversided/oversized
[10:48] <fabbione> dholbach: i see on the progress load bar: loading nautilus... and it stops there. nautilus in a POLL loop. If i try to kill it, it will restart.
[10:48] <ogra> huh ? 
[10:48] <ogra> jsgotangco, where do you look ?
[10:48] <jsgotangco> 17.1
[10:49] <jsgotangco> oh wait there's no report
[10:49] <ogra> jsgotangco, ppc is at 683MB and has no OVESIZED tag
[10:49] <ogra> liveCDs have no report :)
[10:49] <jsgotangco> no installables
[10:49] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:49] <ogra> jsgotangco, its fine :)
[10:50] <ogra> if they run we're ready to go with these ...
[10:50] <janimo> fabbione, doesn't  /usr/bin/X have to be suid root? I cannot startx as normal user without that
[10:50] <seb128_> grumpf, dsl
 when "everything stops loading", what do you have on the screen?
[10:50] <seb128_> --- Disconnected ().
[10:51] <fabbione> seb128_: i have the rectangle load progress bar.
[10:51] <pitti> Kamion: can I upgrade gpg to 1.4.2.1? it fixes a security issue and adds a test case for it, nothing else
[10:51] <fabbione> ok i excluded nautilus
[10:51] <fabbione> it's something that loads after that
[10:51] <pitti> Kamion: I'd be fine with just applying the security patch, but having the test case would be nice IMHO
[10:51] <fabbione> if i replace nautilus with /bin/true it still hangs
[10:52] <seb128_> your home is on nfs ?
[10:52] <fabbione> seb128: yes
[10:52] <fabbione> but it has been working for a looooong time
[10:52] <Kamion> Riddell: I'm cutting back Kubuntu language packs
[10:52] <seb128_> fabbione: since when does it happen?
[10:52] <Kamion> ogra: you can't totally rely on the OVERSIZED tag
[10:52] <fabbione> seb128: since today?
[10:52] <Kamion> ogra: especially not on Edubuntu install CDs
[10:53] <seb128_> fabbione: what did you upgrade?
[10:53] <fabbione> seb128: i did try a test install right 30 minutes ago.
[10:53] <seb128_> hum
[10:53] <fabbione> seb128: fresh dapper install
[10:53] <Kamion> ogra: because if the CD gets too big, debian-cd shifts stuff beyond 700MB or so onto a different CD and you just get silent breakage
[10:53] <fabbione> seb128: the other disk with warty -> dapper upgrade across years, still works fine :)
[10:53] <Kamion> ogra: searching for "CD 2" in the CD build log is a reliable way to detect that
[10:53] <Kamion> pitti: yes
[10:53] <seb128_> fabbione: maybe you can try to move /usr/share/autostart/*.desktop out of the way, but I don't think that's it ...
[10:53] <Kamion> pitti: if that's the only change
[10:54] <ogra> Kamion, yup, understood ... i just have some problems handling w3m currently ... no direct connection to the DC from germany ... but i'll get there ...
[10:55] <fabbione> seb128: no difference
[10:55] <seb128_> so that's not that new feature
[10:56] <seb128_> fabbione: do you have any user process still running from your first login without nfs?
[10:56] <seb128_> like gconf, or orbit stuff
[10:56] <fabbione> seb128: no, but i can test again
[10:57] <fabbione> seb128: gonna try to reboot to be 100% sure
[10:57] <fabbione> brb
[11:05] <fabbione> seb128, dholbach: same story
[11:05] <fabbione> even after a reboot
[11:05] <seb128> it hangs on the splash?
[11:05] <seb128> is "lo" correctly configured?
[11:06] <seb128> doko: should #3074 be closed? several people stated it works fine for them now
[11:06] <fabbione> seb128: yeah the load progress bar thingy.. splash
[11:06] <fabbione> seb128: yup.. network is up
[11:06] <fabbione> seb128: and configured properly
[11:07] <fabbione> as i said before.. login using the local disk does work
[11:07] <seb128> fabbione: maybe you can try to strace gnome-session to see what is it up to
[11:07] <fabbione> as soon as i repluged my /home.. bam
[11:07] <seb128> the stuff started by gnome-session are listed by /usr/share/gnome/default.session
[11:07] <seb128> you may want to move update-notifer, vino, etc out of the way to be sure they are no to blame
[11:08] <fabbione> seb128: *cough* there is no gnome-session ?
[11:08] <fabbione> as a process i mean
[11:08] <seb128> x-session-manager
[11:08] <seb128> that's an alternative
[11:09] <fabbione> it's just there waiting/doing nothing
[11:10] <seb128> fabbione: blocked on what?
[11:11] <fabbione> seb128: on nothing.. it's doing poll(
[11:11] <fabbione> i assume a select( or something
[11:12] <seb128> I tend to blame one of the stuff it tries starting
[11:12] <seb128> next you can try to move update-notifier, etc as I said
[11:12] <fabbione> seb128: i am alredy working on it :)
[11:12] <seb128> you have nothing useful to ~/.xsession-error?
[11:13] <seb128> GNOME put debug stuff to it
[11:13] <fabbione> ahhh
[11:14] <seb128> ?
[11:14] <fabbione> don't you have anything in /query ?
[11:14] <fabbione> it's gnome-panel
[11:14] <fabbione> Unknown option --profile
[11:15] <fabbione> testing one at a time..
[11:15] <seb128> no
[11:15] <seb128> but I got my nick back
[11:15] <seb128> without the _
[11:15] <seb128> and are you identified?
[11:15] <fabbione> yup
[11:16] <seb128> no query from you
[11:18] <seb128> fabbione: do you have a ~/.gnome2/session* ?
[11:18] <fabbione> seb128: checking...
[11:18] <HiddenWolf> mvo, ping
[11:19] <fabbione> seb128: yes, there is a session file..
[11:19] <fabbione> let me guess.. move it out of the way :)
[11:19] <seb128> yeah
[11:19] <fabbione> and restore the original default.session
[11:19] <fabbione> eh?
[11:19] <seb128> I would have started by that
[11:19] <fabbione> damn i feel clever :)
[11:19] <seb128> but you said that's a stock install :p
[11:20] <seb128> keep the stuff you move for debug purpose
[11:20] <fabbione> seb128: yes and as i said i replugged my /home from the server :)
[11:21] <fabbione> ok
[11:21] <fabbione> now we start to talk the same language
[11:22] <fabbione> but you can expect this kind of problems also on upgrades
[11:22] <fabbione> note that i did never ever touched .gnome2/ manually...
[11:24] <fabbione> brb from X
[11:25] <seb128> re fabbione
[11:25] <seb128> can you mail me or put the session somewhere? :)
[11:25] <fabbione> meh.. brb (again)
[11:25] <fabbione> sure.. in a second
[11:26] <jordi> seb128: what's wrong about /var this year?
[11:27] <jordi> last year, /etc was bad for asound.state
[11:27] <fabbione> re
[11:27] <seb128> jordi: /var not mounted when udev events arrives and alsa-utils is runned
[11:27] <seb128> jordi: if you have a different partition for it ...
[11:28] <seb128> jordi: keybuk fixed it by making alsa-utils waits until /var and /usr are mounted
[11:28] <jordi> seb128: nod
[11:28] <Kamion> using /var was ok before alsa-utils was run from udev
[11:28] <Kamion> because it was run after partitions were mounted
[11:28] <seb128> right
[11:29] <jordi> I see. I guess we want that patch in Debian as well.
[11:29] <seb128> but now it's not since there is no point where we are sure the card is up
[11:29] <Kamion> jordi: Debian doesn't run alsa-utils from udev yet does it? (although it would do no harm)
[11:29] <fabbione> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/gnome2-session
[11:29] <Kamion> I mean, the patch would do no harm
[11:30] <seb128> fabbione: thank you :)
[11:30] <seb128> vuntz: did panel use to have a --profile option?
[11:33] <jordi> Kamion: yeah. We might want to merge with ubuntu entirely, I mean
[11:36] <seb128> Kamion, mdz: could any of you accept nautilus 2.12.1-0ubuntu1.2? It fixes a crasher and is waiting for one month ...
[11:38] <pitti> Kamion, mdz: ^ waiting in jackass' accepted/ for a while, does this need a re-upload to LP?
[11:38] <doko> seb128: just checked on amd64, doesn't work for me
[11:38] <Kamion> please don't go randomly reuploading stuff - all that stuff from jackass should be migrated over en-masse
[11:38] <seb128> doko: oki
[11:39] <Kamion> elmo: can we dump everything from jackass' queue/accepted that's targeted at breezy-updates into drescher's breezy unapproved queue somehow?
[11:40] <Kinnison> Kamion: No, there's no such queue
[11:40] <Kamion> is too
[11:40] <Kamion> Listing ubuntu/breezy (UNAPPROVED) 2/2
[11:40] <Kinnison> There's no queue which would accept binaries into -updates other than the buildds
[11:41] <Kamion> at least some of them are only source uploads, including the one seb128 is requesting
[11:41] <pitti> pitti@jackass:/srv/ftp.no-name-yet.com/queue/accepted $ grep 'breezy-updates;' *source.changes|wc -l
[11:41] <pitti> 12
[11:41] <pitti> there's a fair amount of unprocessed stuff
[11:41] <Kamion> in fact, all of them are only source uploads
[11:41] <Kinnison> the source uploads can just be punted at upload.ubuntu.com
[11:42] <Kamion> shall I do that en-masse now, then?
[11:42] <Kinnison> sure, it can't harm things I guess
[11:42] <pitti> Kamion: please skip linux-source-2.6.12_2.6.12-9.24_source.changes:
[11:42] <Kinnison> the binaries won't build until cprov has tested and deployed the changes to the buildd master
[11:42] <Kamion> ok, let's get this over with in one go
[11:42] <Kamion> linux-source-2.6.12       | 2.6.12-9.24       | source | 4 months old
[11:42] <Kamion> germinate                 | 0.3.1             | source | 3 months old
[11:42] <Kamion> gok                       | 1.0.5-1ubuntu5    | source | 3 months old
[11:42] <Kamion> language-pack-kde-af      | 20051018          | source | 3 months old
[11:42] <Kinnison> I believe he is aiming to deploy before the end of the day
[11:42] <Kamion> language-pack-kde-af-base | 20051018          | source | 3 months old
[11:42] <Kamion> evince                    | 0.4.0-0ubuntu4.1  | source | 2 months old
[11:42] <Kamion> libgnome2-canvas-perl     | 1.002-1ubuntu0.1  | source | 2 months old
[11:42] <Kamion> ubuntu-docs               | 5.10-7            | source | 2 months old
[11:42] <Kamion> evms                      | 2.5.2-1ubuntu1.1  | source | 1 month old
[11:42] <Kamion> gnome-python-extras       | 2.12.0-0ubuntu1.1 | source | 1 month old
[11:42] <Kamion> totem                     | 1.2.0-0ubuntu3.1  | source | 1 month old
[11:42] <Kamion> nautilus                  | 2.12.1-0ubuntu1.2 | source | 1 month old
[11:43] <Kamion> any of those objectionable?
[11:43] <pitti> as I said, linux-source
[11:43] <pitti> it's superseded
[11:43] <Kamion> then presumably it'll be rejected
[11:43] <Kamion> (I'd rather there were a record of that)
[11:43] <pitti> Kamion: no, please don't
[11:44] <pitti> it would create a branch in breezy-updates
[11:44] <Kamion> Kinnison: will soyuz reject breezy-updates < breezy-security?
[11:44] <pitti> and we don't want to care for that branch
[11:44] <Kamion> linux-source-2.6.12 | 2.6.12-9.23 |        breezy | source, all
[11:44] <Kamion> linux-source-2.6.12 | 2.6.12-10.28 | breezy-security | source, all
[11:45] <Kinnison> Kamion: no not currently
[11:45] <Kinnison> Kamion: those rules haven't been taught to the policy engine yet
[11:45] <pitti> Kamion: would also be nice to push xine-lib and evms for hoary-updates
[11:47] <Kamion> don't seem to have a helena -m hoary
[11:47] <pitti> $ grep 'hoary-updates;' *source.changes
[11:47] <pitti> evms_2.5.1-1ubuntu4.1_source.changes: evms (2.5.1-1ubuntu4.1) hoary-updates; urgency=low
[11:47] <pitti> xine-lib_1.0-1ubuntu3.4_source.changes: xine-lib (1.0-1ubuntu3.4) hoary-updates; urgency=low
[11:48] <Kamion> I've punted all the breezy-updates uploads and moved them to ~katie/old-breezy-updates/
[11:49] <Kamion> I'll wait to see how soyuz deals with those, and then punt the hoary-updates ones too
[11:49] <Kamion> oh, er, crap
[11:49] <Kamion> uploaded linux-source-2.6.12 by mistake
[11:49] <Kamion> it'll land in unapproved though, I'll reject it
[11:50] <Kamion> (assuming I can)
[11:50] <Kamion> Kinnison: ?
[11:50] <Kinnison> Kamion: should be able to
[11:50] <Kinnison> queue -R breezy -Q unapproved reject <foo>
[11:51] <Kamion> pitti: please note UVF exceptions in the changelog
[11:53] <Kinnison> ogra: What did you think of that package?
[11:53] <Kamion> Kinnison: can I not give a reason?
[11:53] <Kinnison> Kamion: no, known bug, irritating eh?
[11:53] <Kamion> just a bit
[11:53] <Kamion> shall I file it?
[11:53] <Kinnison> I think it's a known, but feel free to file it
[11:53] <ogra> Kinnison, i had a 404 and you were gone already ...
[11:53] <Kamion> ok, hoary-updates punted too
[11:53] <ogra> can you send the url again ?
[11:53] <Kinnison> ogra: You had a 404? 
[11:54] <ogra> yes
[11:54] <ogra> with the url you pasted
[11:54] <Kinnison> with the second url I pasted?
[11:54] <ogra> hmm, you pasted a second one ?
[11:54] <Kinnison> 17:57 < Kinnison> ogra: so http://people.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/gvm-nuv/
[11:54] <Kinnison> 17:59 < ogra> Kinnison, err, 404
[11:54] <Kinnison> 18:00 < Kinnison> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/gpm-nuv/
[11:55] <Kinnison> 18:00 < Kinnison> sorry
[11:55] <ogra> ouch, missed ... i was a bit sidetracked yesterday, sorry
[11:55] <Kinnison> heh, fair enough
[11:55] <Kinnison> no biggy
[11:56] <ogra> so you left the lid action ?
[11:56] <ogra> ahh
[11:57] <ogra> (sorry just saw the second line :) )
[11:58] <ogra> Kinnison, i still disagree about gss, but you two overruled me, so lets go with that ... want me to do a test 
[11:58] <ogra> ?
[11:58] <Kinnison> ogra: please
[12:02] <pitti> Kamion: ok, will do next time, sorry
[12:03] <tepsipakki> Kamion: have you had time to review #29646?
[12:04] <tepsipakki> malone 29646
[12:04] <Ubugtu> malone bug 29646 in apt-setup "support for multiverse" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29646
[12:04] <Kamion> tepsipakki: not yet, sorry, I've marked it as targeted for dapper so I remember
[12:04] <tepsipakki> Kamion: ok, good to hear
[12:05] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, F2 selection of Pt & pt_Br patches working great, thank you. Other thing now, if you select Portuguese (or other language) via F2 key, the language is not passing to, for example, "cdrom-checker" (I guess). Should I file a bug against what pkg?
[12:06] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: do you mean the "check CD-ROM integrity" boot option?
[12:06] <Kamion> glad to hear my fixes worked
[12:06] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, yes
[12:06] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: bug against cdrom-checker then, please
[12:16] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: (please use the "mark as duplicate" thing when you find a duplicate bug rather than adding a comment)
[12:17] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, I didn't know I had permissions to do that. I will from now on.
[12:17] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, plus, I don't know where the bug is correctly filed:)
[12:17] <Kamion> well, assuming you have permissions to do so anyway
[12:18] <Kamion> more specific's usually better - plus if I file an installer bug it's normally in the right place :-)
[12:18] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, eheh:)
[12:20] <slomo> Kamion: please remove banshee from NEW... it's currently on NEW because i splitted off one plugin to another binary package and the current version in the archives can destroy ipods under certain circumstances :/
[12:23] <ogra> Kinnison, i have no lid option at all in gpm ...
[12:25] <Seveas> WaterSevenUb, everyone has permission to edit bugs - I really miss the editbugs privilege thing bugzilla had - users like to make a mess out of their own bugs..
[12:25] <Kinnison> ogra: nothing at all?
[12:26] <tseng> infinity: can you please give back ikvm on ppc
[12:26] <ogra> Kinnison, nope
[12:26] <Kinnison> ogra: bizarre
[12:26] <tseng> infinity: also poke depwait for gmime2.1, beagle, banshee, evolution-sharp .. beagle build-deps on gmime2.1 so it might need kicked twice, not sure how that works
[12:28] <Kinnison> ogra: if it doesn't show the lid combo then hal thinks you don't have a lid button
[12:29] <ogra> Kinnison, it thought that before i upgraded to your new package :)
[12:30] <Kinnison> I'm just upgrading my laptop, once it's done I'll compare the code between the old and new for the prefs screen
[12:30] <ogra> Kinnison, and the device manager shows a lid button
[12:30] <Kinnison> interesting
[12:30] <ogra> that cant be it
[12:31] <tepsipakki> seb128: is there anything anymore that calls gnome-session-save directly? Gnome-panel seems to have it's own logout-dialog nowadays..
[12:31] <seb128> tepsipakki: no
[12:32] <tepsipakki> seb128: that's great, because I made a simple patch that finally fixes gnome-session-save (it presented a gui, always)
[12:32] <Kinnison> ogra: why do you say that?
[12:32] <seb128> tepsipakki: you don't want to present a gui always for it
[12:33] <tepsipakki> seb128: yes, but it used to do just that =)
[12:33] <seb128> no
[12:33] <ogra> Kinnison, if hal device manager shows me a lid button it cant be hals fault
[12:34] <tepsipakki> seb128: I mean, now it shows the gui when you run gnome-session-save --kill, with or without --gui
[12:34] <tepsipakki> seb128: with my patch it shows it only if --gui is set
[12:34] <seb128> I'll not accept a such patch
[12:34] <seb128> it should not show the gui without --gui
[12:34] <tepsipakki> that's what I'm fixing =)
[12:34] <seb128> ah, good
[12:34] <tepsipakki> wait a sec
[12:35] <seb128> I'm not sure anyone use gnome-session-save anyway
[12:35] <Kinnison> ogra: Oh right
[12:35] <tepsipakki> it's useful for gnome-screensaver
[12:35] <seb128> and gnome-session API has some function that do the job without open a dialog
[12:35] <tseng> infinity: er.. njb-sharp has to be kicked from binary NEW first for banshee
[12:35] <seb128> tepsipakki: gnome-screensaver should use the C API and not do a system call to gnome-session-save
[12:35] <seb128> like gnome-panel
[12:35] <tepsipakki> seb128: there's a bug open on launchpad, I'll comment there
[12:36] <Kinnison> ogra: I'm just rebooting post-upgrade and then I'll prod about in the source
[12:36] <seb128> tepsipakki: thank you
[12:36] <Kinnison> ogra: the reason it's odd is because I have a lid button too and it displays for me
[12:36] <ogra> hum
[12:45] <ogra> whee ... big rant on the g-s-s mailing list ...
[12:45] <Kinnison> ogra: so the version in the archive and this new version decide in exactly the same way whether or not you have a lid button
[12:45] <ogra> thats weird
[12:46] <Kinnison> In fact I'd go so far as to say that the code is unchanged
[12:46] <ogra> hmm ... the UI is translated now ... might be that it doesnt show untranslated strings 
[12:47] <ogra> but that would be even more odd
[12:47] <Kinnison> the widgets should be present
[12:47] <ogra> yup
[12:47] <Kinnison> check in gconf-editor that your lid action isn't set to "lock"
[12:48] <Kinnison> because that doesn't exist any more and could be confusing things
[12:50] <ogra> ahhh
[12:50] <ogra> ok
[12:50] <ogra> that will be it ...
[12:51] <Kinnison> change action_button_lid to 'nothing' and try again
[12:51] <ogra> i just wiped the g-p-m user config 
[12:52] <ogra> hmm ...
[12:53] <ogra> button_lid is set to suspend by default and still doesnt show up ...
[12:53] <ogra> even with "nothing" it doesnt appear
[12:55] <Kinnison> okay that's very odd
[12:55] <Kinnison> can you screenshot the bit of devicemanager showing your lid button and dump the png on p.u.c?
[12:55] <janimo> anybody knows when is anastacia back so promotions can be done?
[12:56] <mjg59> How about just using hal-device rather than hal-device-manager?
[12:56] <mjg59> Then you can just pastebin it...
[12:57] <Kinnison> mjg59: mostly because I have no clue about the UDI of a lid on an ibook :-)
[12:58] <ogra> http://pastebin.com/559326
[12:58] <ogra> but i can look it up :)
[12:58] <Kinnison> ta
[01:00] <Kinnison> what UI does it show?
[01:01] <ogra> ??
[01:01] <ogra> can you elaborate ?
[01:01] <Kinnison> can you screenshot each of the first two panes and dump the pngs on p.u.c ?
[01:01] <ogra> of the power management settings ? 
[01:01] <Kinnison> yes
[01:01] <Kinnison> just the first two
[01:07] <ogra> Kinnison, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/gpm1.png http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/gpm2.png
[01:09] <Kinnison> "Wenn der laptop geschlossen wird" == "when the laptop wants to be suspended"?
[01:09] <ogra> nope 
[01:09] <ogra> when the lid is shut
[01:09] <Kinnison> so how is that not the lid action dropdown?
[01:10] <ogra> thats the lid action dropdown ... activated
[01:10] <Kinnison> yes, looks right to me
[01:10] <ogra> but there is no lock option as you can see
[01:10] <Kinnison> indeed not
[01:10] <Kinnison> look at the changelog
[01:10] <ogra> thats not how i undestood it ...
[01:11] <ogra> so i have to repoen the sabdfl bug :(
[01:11] <mjg59> ogra: ?
[01:11] <mjg59> The screen now locks if the locks screen toggle is set in g-s-s
[01:12] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-screensaver/+bug/29881
[01:12] <Ubugtu> malone bug 29881 in gnome-screensaver "Closing the lid should lock the screen if locking is activated in gnome-screensaver" [Normal,Fix released]  
[01:12] <mjg59> ogra: That's what it does
[01:12] <mjg59> If it doesn't, that's a bug
[01:12] <ogra> it doesnt if i'm on AC and i cant select it at all 
[01:12] <Kinnison> there's no option for it
[01:12] <mjg59> Why would you need to select it?
[01:12] <Kinnison> it's hardcoded in the code
[01:13] <mjg59> Kinnison: It should be doing it on ac, though
[01:13] <Kinnison> mjg59: it bloody well does on my laptop
[01:13] <ogra> it doesnt here
[01:13] <mjg59> ogra: And on battery? (With sleep disabled)
[01:14] <Kinnison> ogra: I'm going to ask a very silly question now...
[01:14] <ogra> nope
[01:14] <Kinnison> ogra: did you kill the old gnome-power-manager binary and run the new one?
[01:14] <ogra> yup
[01:14] <ogra> thats why you see everything translated ...
[01:15] <ogra> the old one was english only
[01:15] <Kinnison> that's gnome-power-preferences
[01:15] <Kinnison> not gnome-power-manager
[01:15] <ogra> i killed that as well 
[01:15] <Kinnison> humour me and kill it again
[01:15] <Kinnison> just in case
[01:16] <ogra> ah, damned ... locking wasnt checked in gss
[01:16] <ogra> thats confusing as hell 
[01:16] <ogra> if i activate it in gss, it works with "do nothing" on ac and battery
[01:17] <ogra> so users have to jump around the different UIs ... :/
[01:17] <mjg59> ogra: That's correct behaviour
[01:17] <Kinnison> which is the expected behaviour
[01:17] <ogra> yup :(
[01:17] <mjg59> It's a screensaver setting, not a power setting
[01:17] <Kinnison> ogra: the idea is to make it look like g-s-s is locking on lid close
[01:17] <Kinnison> without having to make g-s-s listen to hal etc
[01:17] <ogra> i understand ... i just dont like it ...
[01:17] <ogra> but it works apparently ...
[01:18] <sivang> hi all
[01:18] <Kinnison> ogra: thanks for testing
[01:19] <Kinnison> for a UVF exception, should I put something like "UVF Exception granted by Colin Watson" in the changelog?
[01:19] <sivang> hmm, Scott not around? I have soem annoying problem with udevd on -15 , on ocassional boots on this laptop (inspiron 8200) boot process stops "Cannot kill /usr/sbin/udevd" and halts
[01:19] <ogra> just upload, he granted it and he has to wave it through the queue anyway
[01:20] <ogra> so he'll already know about it ;)
[01:21] <sivang> hey pitti_ 
[01:21] <pitti_> hi sivang
[01:21] <sivang> pitti_: any news about the new hal?
[01:21] <pitti_> grmpf network
[01:21] <sivang> :-)
[01:21] <pitti> sivang: 0.5.7 was not yet released
[01:21] <pitti> sivang: and I didn't get to extract your patch yet
[01:21] <pitti> or do you have it handy somewhere?
[01:23] <mjg59> Kinnison: g-p-m needs to ignore a power button event if it comes immediately after resume
[01:23] <sivang> pitti: I will extract it today then, and send you by email
[01:24] <fabbione> Kinnison: yes.. according to mdz it's better to add who gave permission for UVF breakage
[01:25] <Kinnison> mjg59: I need to work out if it's g-p-m which should be doing that, or hal
[01:25] <Kinnison> personally I think it ought to be hal
[01:25] <Kinnison> but it may be easier to do in g-p-m
[01:25] <mjg59> Kinnison: I think hal probably ought to report what it gets
[01:25] <mjg59> But yes, I see your point
[01:26] <Kinnison> basically I think hal should be swallowing the spurious power event like we had acpid do
[01:26] <Kinnison> but since I've never hacked on hal I don't know how easy it'd be to do
[01:28] <pitti> sivang: maybe you can already apply it against the current dapper version to check whether it works
[01:29] <lemsto> when i launch a program, the window is never on top of the others?! is it a bug or a bad configuration i made?
[01:29] <sivang> pitti: this is what I will do first, yes
[01:29] <pitti> great, thanks
[01:29] <sivang> pitti: if ti works for me I'll send to you for review
[01:29] <sivang> pitti: np , will be my pleasure :)
[01:37] <viviersf> infinity, ping
[01:37] <infinity> viviersf: pong... ish.
[01:38] <viviersf> lol
[01:38] <viviersf> hello
[01:38] <viviersf> infinity,  got 5 mins to help with initramfs stuffs ?
[01:39] <infinity> If it's really just 5 minutes.  I'm trying (without much success, obviously) to not work this weekend. :)
[01:39] <viviersf> heh
[01:39] <viviersf> i know the feeling
[01:40] <viviersf> i built the initramfs like you said
[01:40] <viviersf> renamed it to gz
[01:40] <viviersf> so when i boot the cd
[01:40] <viviersf> i get an error : /dev/ram does not exist 
[01:40] <viviersf> the initrd is skrewed by the look of it
[01:41] <infinity> Or your isolinux setup it confused.
[01:41] <viviersf> using the isolinux setup from a ubuntu live cd
[01:41] <infinity> You might try seeing if Mithrandir has some spare moments, since he actually BOOTS lvecds, I just build the filesystem. ;)
[01:42] <viviersf> kk
[01:42] <viviersf> Mithrandir = tollef ?
[01:42] <Mithrandir> viviersf: 'sup?
[01:42] <Mithrandir> yes
[01:42] <Mithrandir> I am
[01:42] <viviersf> kewl kewl
[01:42] <infinity> I can tell you that what we do, though, is copy out the vmlinuz and initrd from the installed filesystem (which I build more or less in the fashion I instructed you), then Kamion/Mithrandir work magic to make that kernel/initrd pair boot.
[01:43] <viviersf> Mithrandir, im trying to build an impi live system for dapper
[01:43] <viviersf> i built everything 
[01:43] <viviersf> but it wont boot
[01:44] <Mithrandir> are you passing boot=casper on the kernel command line?
[01:44] <viviersf> im rebuilding the iso quick
[01:44] <viviersf> i think that was the problem 
[01:48] <viviersf> ok thx Mirv 
[01:48] <viviersf> * Mithrandir 
[01:48] <viviersf> it fixed the problem
[01:51] <seb128> mdz: 
 behdad * vte/ (ChangeLog src/vte.c): 
 * src/vte.c: Make shift+insert paste PRIMARY and ctrl+shift+insert
[01:51] <seb128> will make you happy :)
[01:52] <Mithrandir> viviersf: for testing, you might want to just put your casper/ on a vfat volume, it'll be a fair bit quicker than burning DVDs all the time.
[01:53] <Treenaks> seb128: \o/
[01:53] <viviersf> Mithrandir, i was using qemu
[01:53] <viviersf> its jut slow
[01:54] <viviersf> what you meen on a vfat system ?
[01:54] <Mithrandir> vfat as in FAT file system
[01:54] <Mithrandir> viviersf: I'm going to redo how live images are built early next week, so you might want to watch out when the next casper lands.
[01:54] <viviersf> i know what vfat is
[01:54] <viviersf> Mithrandir, i will
[01:55] <seb128> fabbione, infinity, pitti: should /usr/bin/X be setuid?
[01:55] <seb128> it's not at, and startx doesn't work due to that
[01:55] <fabbione> seb128: hold on a sec...
[01:55] <seb128> "X: unable to open wrapper config file /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config
[01:55] <seb128> Xof: user not authorized to run the X server, aborting
[01:55] <pitti> seb128: no, it shouldn't
[01:55] <seb128> Xof: sorry, auto completion ...
[01:55] <seb128> should be "X:"
[01:55] <ogra> pitti, it was in breezy 
[01:55] <fabbione> seb128: yes it should
[01:55] <seb128> pitti: it used to be though
[01:56] <fabbione> seb128: if you have a fix go ahead and upload
[01:56] <pitti> why does it need to be?
[01:56] <seb128> fabbione: no, but I've just fixed an another xinit issue, I'll do that one as well
[01:56] <fabbione> pitti: because X access * 
[01:56] <seb128> pitti: read what I just copied?
[01:56] <fabbione> and needs root to read from /dev/kmem or something
[01:56] <fabbione> seb128: yes i saw your upload.
[01:56] <pitti> well, it's usually started by the root user
[01:56] <pitti> and it works fine here without setuid
[01:56] <fabbione> pitti: yes but you can also start it as "user"
[01:57] <pitti> (not that I would have touched it)
[01:57] <seb128> pitti: startx works for you?
[01:57] <seb128> gdm works for me, but not startx
[01:57] <pitti> startx won't probably
[01:57] <fabbione> pitti: startx ..
[01:57] <seb128> don't ask why ...
[01:57] <pitti> seb128: gdm runs as root
[01:57] <seb128> good point
[01:57] <seb128> pitti: we can't let startx broken though
[01:57] <seb128> if you have a better idea than the setuid let me know
[01:57] <pitti> if it was setuid before, it's probably fine
[01:57] <seb128> it was yep
[01:58] <seb128> k, thank you
[01:58] <pitti> I wasn't aware of it at all
[01:58] <fabbione> pitti: yes it was and it should be
[01:58] <fabbione> pitti: slaker :)
[01:58] <pitti> fabbione: I need to test gdm for stability :)
[01:58] <fabbione> pitti: i already do it on 6 arches.. go back to startx .. no excuses :P
[02:00] <seb128> next question for you guys ... should xvfb Depends on xauth?
[02:00] <fabbione> no idea :)
[02:00] <seb128> k, I'll do the change, if somebody disagree feel free to revert
[02:00] <seb128> it has a:
[02:00] <seb128> "if ! which xauth >/dev/null; then
[02:00] <seb128>     error "xauth command not found"
[02:00] <seb128>     exit 3
[02:00] <seb128> fi"
[02:01] <seb128> which breaks pygtk build atm
[02:01] <seb128> so I take the easy way and put it as a Depends for now
[02:01] <ogra> sounds reasonable
[02:02] <fabbione> seb128: works for me
[02:14] <ogra> *sigh* 
[02:17] <BenC> should I be concerned about launchpad sending me an upload confirmation for linux-source-2.6.12-9.24 that I uploaded 4 months ago?
[02:17] <dholbach> something to -updates?
[02:17] <sivang> does anyone  have idea about why I have no sound events sound on the desktop? everything else works just fine, including playing media etc. has anything changed in sound support in metacity possibly?
[02:17] <BenC> yeah
[02:17] <pitti> BenC: yes, it was re-uploaded to launchpad accidentially, and rejected (I hope)
[02:18] <BenC> pitti: it said ACCEPTED
[02:18] <pitti> BenC: it just sat in accepted/ forever, since it was superseded by a security update
[02:18] <Riddell> Kamion: what's the status of flight 4?
[02:18] <BenC> ah, ok
[02:18] <pitti> Kamion, could you reject that LP upload of the ancient b-updates kernel?
[02:18] <dholbach> sivang: metacity?
[02:18] <dholbach> sivang: what does system -> preferences -> audio say?
[02:20] <sivang> dholbach: I don't have audio.
[02:21] <dholbach> sivang: nothing there to configure sound?
[02:21] <sivang> dholbach: In sound , there's a V for ESD, and V for "play system sounds"
[02:21] <dholbach> do you have esd? is it running?
[02:23] <sivang> dholbach: I have polyaudio instead :)
[02:23] <sivang> dholbach: but I can't see esd running
[02:24] <sivang> dholbach: should I install esd instead ?
[02:24] <sivang> ( only have -common pkg for esd)
[02:26] <pitti> sivang: ditch polypaudio
[02:26] <pitti> sivang: ditch esd as well if you don't need it :)
[02:27] <sivang> pitti: I must use it , it's a soft-card :-/ (82801CA/CAM AC'97 audio controller)
[02:27] <pitti> hm?
[02:27] <pitti> polypaudio/esd doesn't have any drivers
[02:28] <sivang> pitti: the sound card doesn't do multiplexing on it's own
[02:28] <sivang> pitti: it used to do it with esd, though.
[02:28] <pitti> sivang: and alsa dmix doesn't work?
[02:28] <pitti> sivang: anyway, current dapper tries alsa dmix, and if that doesn't work, falls back to esd
[02:29] <sivang> pitti: okay, for some reason I don't have dmix installed. I will loose both esd and poly and install it manually.
[02:30] <pitti> sivang: you don't need to 'install' dmix
[02:30] <pitti> sivang: it's a module in the alsa lib that is automatically used on cards where it's known to work
[02:30] <pitti> sivang: please try:
[02:31] <pitti> aplay /usr/share/sounds/login.wav
[02:31] <pitti> wait a second
[02:31] <pitti> erm
[02:31] <pitti> again
[02:31] <pitti> aplay /usr/share/sounds/login.wav &
[02:31] <pitti> wait a second
[02:31] <pitti> aplay /usr/share/sounds/login.wav
[02:31] <pitti> sivang: if you hear both sounds at the same time, dmix works for you
[02:33] <sivang> works ! :)
[02:33] <sivang> how come polyaudio wasn't removed when I dist-upgrade to dapper?
[02:34] <ogra> polypaudion was never used officially ...
[02:35] <sivang> ah, okay. then my bad, I probably intalled it manually
[02:35] <ogra> it was switched back to esd very early during breezy development
[02:36] <ogra> even it once was a dependency of -desktop for a short period
[02:36] <sivang> still , I don't recall that I Installed it manually, though so that is why I wondered.
[02:37] <ogra> it might be pulled in by the mentioned -desktop dependency 
[02:38] <ogra> gah ... still no edubuntu-meta on the builds page ... 1.5h since i uploaded :(
[02:38] <sivang> maybe. 
[02:38] <sivang> pitti: hrm, trying to remove esound-common wants to take half my desktop down...
[02:38] <ogra> *sigh*
[02:38] <tseng> yay flight4
[02:38] <pitti> sivang: no, you need -common
[02:39] <pitti> sivang: you can even leave esound installed, it'll not be used if dmix works
[02:39] <ogra> tseng, :(
[02:39] <tseng> ogra: *hugs*
[02:39] <sivang> pitti: k, cool. can also leave the "sound" props to "enable sound software mixing" ?
[02:40] <pitti> yes, it'll be a no-op for most users now
[02:41] <Keybuk> pitti: did you get a chance to play with the new n-m packages?  http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/network-manager/
[02:43] <viviersf> Mithrandir, ping
[02:43] <pitti> Keybuk: sorry, not yet, swamped in security stuff
[02:43] <Keybuk> that's ok
[02:43] <Keybuk> seb128: did you yet?
[02:43] <sivang> Keybuk: I've been hacing occasional "Cannot kill /usr/sbin/udevd" halts, known?
[02:43] <Mithrandir> viviersf: yes?
[02:43] <pitti> Keybuk: I'll try it on my laptop; let's see how long it lasts without oopsing my kernel :)
[02:43] <Keybuk> sivang: no, not known
[02:43] <sivang> Keybuk: that's only on this laptop (dell lappie, bad acpi machine by design)
[02:43] <viviersf> Mithrandir, wouldnt it be possible in casper, to make the autologin use another method for choosing between kde and gnome
[02:44] <sivang> Keybuk: when I re-reboot, it goes away, until next time.
[02:44] <mjg59> sivang: What machine?
[02:44] <Mithrandir> viviersf: you don't have input, so you'd need to do it from the bootloader.
[02:44] <viviersf> yeah
[02:44] <Keybuk> sivang: what is trying to kill udevd?!
[02:46] <viviersf> Mithrandir, ok nm i still got a problem, that wont help
[02:47] <viviersf> Mithrandir, we gonna use gdm, but i need a way to let gdm choose gnome or kde :(
[02:47] <Mithrandir> viviersf: don't use autologin, then?
[02:47] <viviersf> Mithrandir, i know heh but casper does auto login
[02:48] <Mithrandir> viviersf: change casper, then?
[02:48] <ogra> nah, change the alternative for x-session-manager 
[02:48] <viviersf> ogra, good idea :P
[02:48] <ogra> gdm will pick up the default
[02:49] <Kinnison> ogra: Curse the build queue builder
[02:49] <Kinnison> it's taking far too long
[02:49] <ogra> Kinnison, yes :(
[02:49] <ogra> 3h for a package from upload to archive best case ... i've also had longer ones 
[02:50] <jsgotangco> ogra, wha?
[02:50] <jsgotangco> get a plane to london :D
[02:51] <ogra> thats really hard for flight preparation ... my nerves are starting to make noises from being strain ..
[02:51] <Kinnison> ogra: I agree
[02:51] <Kinnison> ogra: It should be building stuff now
[02:51] <ogra> jsgotangco, this change is even more trivial than the one that kept me up until 5am last night 
[02:51] <jsgotangco> arghhh
[02:52] <ogra> Kinnison, thanks a lot
[02:52] <Kinnison> ogra: I agree that the delays are seriously unacceptable
[02:53] <ogra> Kinnison, mdz said its a trade for reliability ... i'm fine with that as long as my next workstep doesnt depend on the package ...
[02:53] <Kinnison> ogra: aye
[02:53] <ogra> i prefer a reliable system :)
[02:54] <seb128> Keybuk: I installed on my box, but it's not really an interesting configuration for it (2 wired eth, no wireless card)
[02:55] <seb128> Keybuk: it doesn't overwrite the resolv.conf by a blank one and let the interface correctly configured (which was not the case of the previous version)
[02:55] <seb128> Keybuk: but clicking on it doesn't list any connection, where the previous one was listed my 2 eth config (on greyed because no cable connected probably and the active one)
[02:56] <seb128> Keybuk: the .desktop for autostartup works fine too
[03:00] <HiddenWolf> guys, did evolution recently stop autocompleting email adresses?
[03:04] <seb128> HiddenWolf: not for me
[03:04] <HiddenWolf> seb128: odd
[03:05] <HiddenWolf> seb128: It's also only showing a partial list of my contact book when I press "to"
[03:05] <seb128> seems your contacts list is broken so
[03:09] <Kaloz> seems like the guy who added that ubuntu splash thing to dapper forgot about smart people who have a seaparate /boot
[03:09] <Kaloz> :p
[03:10] <seb128> Kaloz: that guy is mvo and he's not working today so probably something you should put on launchpad :)
[03:10] <Kaloz> :)
[03:11] <Kaloz> well, you know i didn't want to submit a ticket about it
[03:11] <Kaloz> imho there are at least 100 other people who will do so :)
[03:11] <HiddenWolf> seb128: right, it's only not completing for some adresses. :/
[03:11] <seb128> I'm not sure so many people have a separate /boot actually but yeah, you can wait on it
[03:11] <ogra> Kaloz, thats great, so they can find yours and follow up
[03:11] <seb128> HiddenWolf: special chars to those?
[03:12] <ogra> Kaloz, just go ahead
[03:13] <HiddenWolf> seb128: most exotic is an underscore, 
[03:13] <Kaloz> i check it
[03:13] <ogra> Kaloz, http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+bugs
[03:14] <HiddenWolf> seb128: one of the broken ones is souljar777@domain.com
[03:15] <sivang> mjg59: Dell Inspiron 8200
[03:16] <mjg59> sivang: Ah. Reasonably old?
[03:16] <sivang> mjg59: sort 'o, 3 years at least
[03:16] <sivang> (maybe some more)
[03:16] <mjg59> Ok
[03:23] <HiddenWolf> seb128: opening and saving the contacts did the trick, probably just a glitch.
[03:24] <seb128> k
[03:27] <HiddenWolf> seb128: can you patch rhythmbox with the fix for http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=330784 
[03:28] <Ubugtu> gnome2 bug 330784 in User Interface "Notification bubble shows empty" [Trivial,Resolved: fixed]  
[03:28] <sivang> pitti: I can't hear system events still, I have ditched polypaudio and done the dmix test again
[03:31] <seb128> HiddenWolf: it's already filled to launchpad and I've already commented and putting it as dapper target
[03:31] <HiddenWolf> must've missed that. You're a hero. :)
[03:43] <seb128> np ;)
[03:43] <ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20060217.2/report.html
[03:43] <ogra> finally its empty 
[03:43] <Treenaks> ogra: that means it's beer o'clock! ;)
[03:44] <ogra> Treenaks, far from that, now i need to rsync and run a full test .... for all arches
[03:44] <Treenaks> ogra: good luck then
[03:44] <ogra> but the idly waiting is over ...
[03:48] <Mithrandir> modular live cd, anyone? :-)
[03:48] <ogra> Mithrandir, if my tests show no regression i have my flight4 now ... give me 1-2h for the live tests... i think ubuntu and kubuntu were fine already for flight 
[03:49] <Mithrandir> ogra: this might not be dapper material at all, I'll need to chat with mdz.
[03:49] <ogra> oooh, ok
[03:49] <infinity> Mithrandir: We'll need mangling of the buildds anyway, so...
[03:49] <Mithrandir> infinity: yup
[03:49] <Mithrandir> infinity: that too.
[03:49] <Mithrandir> infinity: and I'm not sure if mdz is confident about unionfs and squashfs yet or not.
[03:51] <ogra> i left unionfs out of ltsp for dapper ... even it highly desired ...
[03:51] <ogra> but i'm a sissy
[03:52] <Kaloz> hmz.. still waiting for the registration mail :p
[03:52] <Kaloz> sometime si hate the fact that i need to greylist :p
[03:52] <infinity> Well, ltsp and the livecd have drastically different target audiences, too.
[03:52] <Mithrandir> ogra: it's needed for live cds, but you probably know that already.
[03:52] <Mithrandir> that too
[03:52] <infinity> Most people don't expect a livecd (at least, not our desktop-oriented livecd) to be up and running for days/weeks at a time.
[03:52] <ogra> Mithrandir, yes and it would improve the situation of ltsp clients a lot as well
[03:53] <ogra> Mithrandir, my fs is also readonly ...
[03:53] <infinity> So if it's not rock solid, it may not be the end of the world for a livecd, but could suck for ltsp.
[03:53] <ogra> and i mount a ton on top to be rw ... the mount command fills more than page on the console
[03:59] <Kamion> 12:19 < ogra> just upload, he granted it and he has to wave it through the queue anyway
[03:59] <Kamion> ogra: if you don't know the answer to a question authoritatively, I'd really prefer if you didn't answer
[04:00] <Kamion> ogra: especially when mdz said the exact opposite last night, and I'd said the exact opposite this morning
[04:00] <ogra> Kamion, ok
[04:00] <Kamion> Kinnison: in general, please mention in the changelog that a UVF exception has been granted, so that people are aware of the workflow
[04:00] <Kamion> you don't have to say whom by
[04:00] <Kamion> (unless you care)
[04:01] <Kamion> Ubuntu and Kubuntu need rebuilds before Flight 4; I'll work on that shortly
[04:01] <Kamion> thanks
[04:05] <hunger> How can I stop g-p-m from offering the hibernate option?
[04:05] <Kinnison> hunger: I've been looking into that
[04:05] <Kinnison> hunger: Why should it not display it?
[04:06] <hunger> Kinnison: Because my laptop has no swap partition it can use to hibernate.
[04:06] <Kinnison> that's a good reason
[04:07] <hunger> Kinnison: It does have a swap partition, it just is not suitable for hibernation:-)
[04:07] <fabbione> hunger: well.. just don't use it :)
[04:07] <Kinnison> hunger: so g-p-m only presents the choice of hibernation if hal says that the laptop can hibernate to disk
[04:07] <Kinnison> hunger: so what we need to do is make hal not claim that in your case
[04:07] <mjr> 35
[04:07] <hunger> fabbione: I won't... if I do not accidentally hit that button;-)
[04:07] <fabbione> hunger: ehehe
[04:08] <hunger> Kinnison: So how can I get hal to not make such a bold claim?
[04:09] <Kinnison> hunger: Right, that's the question
[04:09] <ogra> gpm has a commandline option to supress the actions in the menu 
[04:09] <ogra> but that wont prevent them from showing up in the preferences
[04:09] <Kinnison> hunger: if we can work out how to determine if the machine can hibernate, we can somehow feed that info to hal
[04:09] <Kinnison> hunger: then gpm won't display the options
[04:10] <Kinnison> hunger: So what we need is a programmatic way to determine if hibernation should be possible
[04:10] <hunger> Kinnison: There is a swap partition that probably looks suitable to hal... 
[04:10] <Kinnison> hunger: hmm
[04:10] <hunger> Kinnison: And this laptop is supposed to be able to hibernate... it is just that the swap is encrypted and so the wakeup fails.
[04:11] <Kinnison> hunger: aye
[04:11] <Kinnison> hunger: Give me a few mins to ponder
[04:12] <infinity> There must be a away to determine at runtime that the swap is encrypted, no?
[04:12] <hunger> Kinnison: The pragmatic way would be to have a gconf key or something:-)
[04:12] <Kinnison> infinity: Well, you'd think so
[04:13] <Kinnison> infinity: so what I'd do is write a little tool for hal which let hal guess if hibernation was likely to succeed and change the can_suspend_to_disk to false if it think it would fail
[04:14] <hunger> Kinnison: A encrypted swap does not necessarily break hibernation...
[04:14] <Kinnison> hunger: I was thinking of checking /etc/default/acpi-support
[04:14] <ogra> Kinnison++
[04:14] <infinity> Which should be done anyway...
[04:14] <Kinnison> infinity: aye, but hal currently doesn't
[04:14] <hunger> Kinnison: Good idea!
[04:15] <hunger> Kinnison: Ooops... I had hibernate set to true in there since the last update. Maybe that was causing this. Let me check.
[04:15] <infinity> hunger: What do we need to get your swap to actually work for hibernation?  Do I need snazzy support for your encrypted swap in the initramfs?
[04:15] <ogra> infinity, size ...
[04:16] <infinity> ogra: No, hal should already be checking swap size.
[04:16] <ogra> ah
[04:16] <ogra> thats new then 
[04:16] <infinity> Note the "should"
[04:16] <ogra> heh
[04:16] <infinity> Kinnison: Care to double-check that while you're diving in? :)
[04:16] <Kinnison> infinity: hmm?
[04:17] <infinity> Kinnison: Have hal check swap size against RAM size and make sure there's enough swap to enable hibernation.
[04:17] <hunger> Kinnison: Hibernate is still listed by hal.
[04:17] <ogra> i had a patch to hal that checked /proc/meminfo, but i moved that functionallity into hwdb-client in breezy
[04:17] <infinity> Kinnison: So, even if the user says "yes, I'd love to hibernate!" in default/acpi-support, we can tell them to piss off cause it won't work.
[04:17] <hunger> Kinnison: Make that RAM size + display memory.
[04:17] <ogra> since it was a PITA to apply it over and over 
[04:18] <mjg59> Display memory?
[04:18] <mjg59> That doesn't get saved
[04:19] <mjg59> On average, hibernation will require less swap than you have RAM, but it's not hugely predictable
[04:19] <mjg59> When we shift to doing stuff in userspace, this ought to get more managable
[04:26] <Seveas> mjg59, I have 512 ram and 512 swap - If i try to hibernate with OO.o open it runs out of space. OO.o is hell...
[04:30] <Kinnison> Seveas: this doesn't crash though right? Just returns you to the desktop having tried?
[04:30] <Seveas> it crashes
[04:30] <Seveas> hard lockup
[04:30] <Seveas> (but this is breezy)
[04:31] <Kinnison> Hmm
[04:31] <Kamion> BenC: yeah, I didn't mean to have the linux-source-2.6.12 upload land in soyuz' breezy-updates unapproved queue, but it does no harm as long as it's unapproved
[04:32] <Kamion> BenC: I'll reject it in a moment, as long as you don't mind the reject coming without a reason
[04:32] <BenC> Kamion: ok
[04:33] <Kamion> done
[04:34] <Kamion> Riddell: I'm rebuilding images to pick up the base-installer change I made earlier today, which fixes conffile prompts along with infinity's initramfs-tools; don't really want to release images without that
[04:34] <Kamion> or rather with only half of that
[04:34] <Kamion> edubuntu's already up-to-date on that I think
[04:35] <Kamion> please test the current Ubuntu images; those are Flight 4 candidates
[04:36] <Kamion> Riddell: also, this Kubuntu rebuild should fix your oversizing, since I removed some language packs
[04:36] <BenC> Kamion: nah, reject away
[04:50] <Riddell> Kamion: ok, thanks
[04:55] <Kinnison> Can anyone see if there's a good reason why powermanagement-interface's depends doesn't include the shlib depends for gdm-signal?
[05:01] <Kamion> Riddell: kubuntu install rebuilt, don't *think* I need to rebuild live as well but let me know (and/or do it yourself) if you do
[05:02] <Riddell> Kamion: ok, I'll test those now
[05:03] <Riddell> Kamion: how would I know if the live CDs needed rebuilding?
[05:03] <Kamion> Riddell: if they don't work? :-) or if there have been important changes on dapper-changes since the live filesystem was built
[05:03] <Kamion> the latter's how I normally tell anyway
[05:04] <Riddell> ok
[05:04] <Kamion> from a brief glance, you're probably ok
[05:36] <Kamion> seb128: why would I get a padlock icon above and to the right of the "Install System Permanently" icon on live CDs?
[05:36] <Kinnison> is pitti not around today?
[05:37] <Kamion> (which is ~/Desktop/espresso-gtkui.desktop)
[05:37] <jpatrick> Kamion: not ready yet?
[05:37] <Kamion> jpatrick: hmm?
[05:37] <jpatrick> never mind
[05:38] <seb128> Kamion: because the file is read-only?
[05:38] <Kamion> ah, it's owned by root
[05:39] <Kamion> thanks
[05:39] <seb128> np
[05:40] <Kamion> Mithrandir: please merge http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/casper/espresso-desktop/ yet again to fix the above (no hurry to upload, though)
[05:48] <flujan> hi guys, I need a backport of the xorg 6.9 or 7.0. I have a intel 915M laptop and need 1280*800 configuration. 
[05:48] <flujan> is there such back-port?
[05:52] <flujan> hello?
[05:53] <Kamion> I think it's unlikely, since it's such a huge task
[05:53] <Kamion> but you could try #ubuntu-backports (at least I think that channel exists)
[05:53] <lakin> What is the package in dapper which provides the popup-notification about low-disk space on my home partition?
[05:53] <Kamion> or https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-backports
[05:54] <Mez> Kamion, the list is always the best :D
[05:54] <Mez> because noones in the channel
[05:54] <Mez> flujan, theres no way we're going to be able to backport X.org
[05:55] <flujan> hum... so I need to wait dapper if I want a stable system?
[05:55] <flujan> :(
[05:55] <Kamion> it'd probably be a mistake to backport anyway - we're still fixing stuff up in dapper due to the /usr/X11R6 -> /usr move
[05:58] <fabbione> flujan: yes, you will have to wait.
[05:58] <fabbione> it's only 2 months away...
[05:58] <ogra> Kamion, for some obscure reason edubuntu-server doesnt get installed
[05:59] <ogra> (on  edubuntu install)
[05:59] <Kamion> which boot option?
[05:59] <ogra> default
[05:59] <ogra> preseed seems ok 
[05:59] <Kamion> put /var/log/installer/syslog somewhere I can see?
[06:00] <ogra> i'm just doing a i386 install, to investigaet more ... funnily ltsp-server is there ...
[06:01] <Kamion> the syslog will be sufficient, probably
[06:01] <ogra> wait a sec, i can only get the ppc file
[06:02] <Kamion> that'll do
[06:05] <Kinnison> hunger: ping
[06:08] <ogra_> grmbl
[06:09] <Kinnison> hey ogra_ 
[06:09] <Kinnison> ogra_: I have a patch for the hal package which uses the pmi tool to query the capabilities according to userspace and sets the power_management.can_suspend_to_* appropriately
[06:09] <Kinnison> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/pmi-support.diff
[06:09] <dilinger> how are you supposed to hibernate in dapper?
[06:09] <Kinnison> what do you think?
[06:10] <Kinnison> dilinger: pretty much the same as before I though
[06:10] <dilinger> Kinnison: seems the gnome logout page has changed
[06:10] <dilinger> there's suspend but no hibernate
[06:10] <Kinnison> dilinger: right-click on the battery icon -- there should be hibernate there
[06:10] <Kinnison> dilinger: gnome-power-manager can trigger a hibernate
[06:10] <dilinger> nope
[06:11] <Kinnison> perhaps your system doesn't believe it *can* hibernate
[06:11] <Kinnison> load the device manager and look for power_management.can_suspend_to_disk
[06:11] <dilinger> what's odd is that from gdm, there's a hibernate option
[06:11] <ogra_> Kinnison, neato ...
[06:11] <dilinger> but it just ignores me when i click it :)
[06:11] <ogra_> thats really small :)
[06:11] <Kinnison> ogra_: yeah, the next stage is to get powermanagement-interface to be more reliable about what it claims for suspend/hibernate
[06:11] <Kinnison> ogra_: but I think that's pretty much the right patch for hal
[06:12] <Kinnison> ogra_: It used to be smaller and not need an additional script, but then I realised that hal's privsep meant I couldn't query pmi from the right part of hal
[06:13] <ogra_> Kamion, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/syslog
[06:14] <Kamion> ogra_: (weird that you still have a busted locale there)
[06:14] <ogra_> Kamion, german installer, no german langpack on the CD 
[06:15] <ogra_> it persists over all flights so far ...
[06:15] <Kamion> no Task: edubuntu-server on the CD
[06:15] <Kamion> the package is there but task names aren't generated
[06:15] <Kamion> my bug
[06:16] <ogra_> ah, k
[06:16] <ogra_> i can live with it for flight 4
[06:17] <ogra_> since i'm really happy that ppc is the first time installable :) 
[06:18] <ogra_> Kinnison, i'd say add it ... but you should talk to pitti additionally, he's the hal master
[06:18] <Kinnison> ogra_: I think I'll mail pitti
[06:19] <ogra_> yup ... he'll unlikely come back this evening
[06:19] <Kamion> I don't get it though, the override file is fine
[06:20] <Kamion> oh, SMEG
[06:20] <Kamion> forgot to update debian-cd for the scratch directory rearrangement
[06:22] <Kamion> ogra: 17:20 < Kamion> oh, SMEG
[06:22] <Kamion> 17:20 < Kamion> forgot to update debian-cd for the scratch directory rearrangement
[06:22] <Kamion> ogra: thanks for letting me know, this affects all derivatives and requires a rebuild
[06:22] <ogra> oki ... tell me if i can trigger one 
[06:23] <Kamion> no, I'll trigger them all en-masse
[06:23] <ogra> oki
[06:23] <kagou> hi
[06:24] <ogra> Kamion, apart from that all arches install images are fine 
[06:24] <ogra> (edubuntu)
[06:24] <Kamion> mm, they'll need a full retest I'm afraid :(
[06:25] <Kamion> the Task and Priority fields were all potentially bogus
[06:25] <Keybuk> seb128: still working ok for you?
[06:25] <kagou> mjg59: if you had time we can try to resolv #31502
[06:25] <seb128> Keybuk: yep
[06:25] <Keybuk> yeah, is doing the right things for me too
[06:25] <Keybuk> ok, into the archive with it then
[06:25] <seb128> Keybuk: did you get what I said that afternoon
[06:26] <Keybuk> seb128: no, I missed stuff
[06:26] <Keybuk> can you re-paste?
 Keybuk: I installed on my box, but it's not really an interesting configuration for it (2 wired eth, no wireless card)
 Keybuk: it doesn't overwrite the resolv.conf by a blank one and let the interface correctly configured (which was not the case of the previous version)
 Keybuk: but clicking on it doesn't list any connection, where the previous one was listed my 2 eth config (on greyed because no cable connected probably and the active one)
 Keybuk: the .desktop for autostartup works fine too
[06:26] <Kamion> CD image rebuilds running
[06:27] <Keybuk> seb128: ok, sounds like it's behaving then ... it's deliberately backing off those interfaces because they've got configuration in /etc/network/interfaces
[06:28] <ogra> Kamion, no problem ...
[06:28] <ogra> i start getting used to it :)
[06:28] <seb128> Keybuk: would it be complicated to set a static connection using interfaces data?
[06:29] <Keybuk> seb128: how do you mean?
[06:29] <Keybuk> it would only enable that static connection if you selected that interface
[06:29] <seb128> right, no real point
[06:29] <Keybuk> exactly
[06:29] <ogra> Keybuk, no sound on recent ppc installs ...
[06:29] <seb128> the system does that fine alone
[06:29] <Keybuk> if you clicked another interface, then it'd bring down the static
[06:30] <Keybuk> ogra: iz kernel bug
[06:30] <seb128> Keybuk: it's just weird to have the applet saying I've no connection when I'm connected :)
[06:30] <ogra> Keybuk, cant be ... there was no kernel update between the isos i tested ...
[06:30] <ogra> last one (from friday last week) worked fine 
[06:30] <seb128> Keybuk: maybe the tooltip should be changed to mention "no network connection or using a static one" or something like that
[06:30] <seb128> but that's a detail
[06:31] <Keybuk> ogra: *shrug* then elaborate on "no sound" and tell me whether it's "no driver loaded", "sound muted on install" or "driver loaded but sound card not found"
[06:31] <Keybuk> seb128: yeah, it's bloody hard to do
[06:32] <Keybuk> network-manager's code is like a cross between those 1980s adventure games where you were in a twisty maze of passages, all heading East; and Sierra adventure games where every wrong thing you do results in your death
[06:32] <ogra> Keybuk, i'll have to do another testrun later ... will report back (or file a bug if you're gone)
[06:32] <LaserJock> Kamion: alsa-tools seems to have built on the 3rd (successfully on all arch except ia64 which has a dep wait) but it hasn't hit the repos yet. Is that something you can take care of?
[06:32] <Keybuk> ogra: it's almost certainly not a udev bug :)
[06:33] <Kamion> LaserJock: yes, it's in NEW, I've been ignoring most things that aren't THE SKY IS FALLING urgent in there until I get flight-4 sorted
[06:33] <ogra> Keybuk, i think its been muted ...
[06:33] <Keybuk> seb128: out of interest, did it give any possible interfaces when you clicked on it?
[06:33] <ogra> but i cant confirm 100% currently
[06:33] <Keybuk> I was kind of hoping that I could just make the icon hide if everything was in /etc/network/interfaces
[06:34] <Keybuk> ogra: then check your sound state was saved correctly, that you have a /var/lib/alsa/asound.state, that "/etc/init.d/alsa start 0" doesn't unmute the sound, etc.
[06:34] <seb128> Keybuk: as said, before the update it was listing my 2 static connections configured from interfaces (one greyed which is a broken card with no cable plugged) 
[06:34] <ogra> Keybuk, i'm talking about a frech install ...
[06:34] <ogra> *fresh
[06:34] <seb128> Keybuk: now it says "not network interface detected" (I've the french version so the translation might be slightly different)
[06:34] <LaserJock> ogra: or is that a french install ;-)
[06:34] <Keybuk> ogra: hmm, did you make either /usr or /var separate partitions to / ?
[06:34] <ogra> heh
[06:34] <ogra> Keybuk, nope, all on /
[06:35] <Keybuk> seb128: ah, yeah, that could be improved
[06:35] <Keybuk> ogra: then I don't have any immediate idea what it could be
[06:35] <Keybuk> ogra: which alsa-utils version?
[06:36] <ogra> ii  alsa-utils     1.0.10-1ubuntu ALSA utilities
[06:37] <ogra> 7me grrs at dpkgs column width
[06:38] <ogra> Keybuk, alsa-utils_1.0.10-1ubuntu7
[06:43] <Kamion> seb128: when's that xorg thing a regression from?
[06:43] <Kamion> i.e. is it something I need to rebuild install CDs for?
[06:44] <seb128> Kamion: no need to rebuild a CD, that breaks "startx" and that's probably since we have modular server
[06:44] <Kamion> ok
[06:44] <seb128> no issue with gdm as it runs as root
[06:44] <seb128> so feel free to ignore it, that's a detail :)
[06:44] <Kamion> surprised the fix was in xorg not xorg-server
[06:44] <Keybuk> ogra: hmm, pipe it to less ;)
[06:45] <Kamion> surely it's xorg-server that ships the actual binary
[06:45] <seb128> hum
[06:45] <ogra> Keybuk, see above
[06:45] <seb128> Kamion: I've changed /usr/bin/X which fixes the issue
[06:45] <Kamion> that's a symlink
[06:45] <Keybuk> ogra: ok, no idea; need more debugging when you have the machine in front of you and can reboot it
[06:45] <seb128> Kamion: 
[06:45] <seb128> $ ls -l /usr/bin/X
[06:45] <Kamion> oh, er, no
[06:45] <seb128> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 18262 2006-02-14 12:57 /usr/bin/X
[06:46] <seb128> $ dlocate /usr/bin/X
[06:46] <seb128> x11-common: /usr/bin/X
[06:46] <Kamion> ah, ok, sorry, you're quite right
[06:46] <seb128> np
[06:50] <dilinger> so my coworker brought up an awesome idea
[06:51] <dilinger> is there a livecd (flight or whatever) that uses xgl instead of normal x?
[06:52] <seb128> dilinger: xgl is pretty new, so probably not yet
[06:52] <dilinger> seb128: is anyone working on it?
[06:53] <seb128> not afaik
[06:53] <seb128> but I'm not really following those xgl stuff, maybe ask on #ubuntu-xgl
[06:53] <Kinnison> dilinger: giving Xgl is universe currently, it's doubtful that anyone from the core team would be doing it
[06:53] <dilinger> i would love to play around w/ xgl, but i don't want to break X on my dapper system (i rely on it for work too much)
[06:53] <dilinger> Kinnison: ok
[06:53] <seb128> you can have both installed
[06:53] <Kinnison> dilinger: it's really easy to try it, and switch back to normal xorg
[06:53] <seb128> that's easy to switch between them
[06:53] <ogra> +and thats really more appropriate for #ubuntu-xgl
[06:53] <Kinnison> dilinger: mjg59's mail to ubuntu-devel-announce explains
[06:54] <Burgwork> sivang, in dapper they just turned on a grub background image
[06:55] <sivang> Burgwork: ah, thanks for letting me know - it doesn't work over this werid laptop, I'll go disable it :)
[07:01] <tepsipakki> is the date for next CC meeting set?
[07:03] <sivang> Burgwork: do you know also if "Multimedia System Selector" was removed from the "System" menu?
[07:03] <ogra> grmbl ...
[07:03] <ogra> rsync doesnt let me update the isos
[07:04] <Burgwork> sivang, hidden
[07:04] <sivang> Burgwork: ah, bad, where is it hidden?
[07:04] <Burgwork> sivang, open the menu editor and unhide it
[07:05] <sivang> Burgwork: okay, will do thanks! :)
[07:05] <Burgwork> sivang, hidden as part of DapperDesktopPlan
[07:05] <Keybuk> hmm, anyone know how to make update-notifier notice a new note placed in its user.d directory?
[07:06] <sivang> Burgwork: do we have only one MM system now that we do not need the menu item anymore?
[07:09] <shaya> is malone having issues?
[07:09] <shaya> can't file a bug
[07:09] <shaya> when I try to look at gnome-power-manager, I get "Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page. "
[07:10] <Kinnison> shaya: out of interest, since I'm currently looking after gnome-power-manager, what is the problem you're having?
[07:10] <ogra> Kinnison, launchpad/malone bug
[07:10] <ogra> i had the same today ...
[07:10] <shaya> Kinnison: brightness controls dont work on my t42p
[07:11] <ogra> shaya, try to append +bugs to the url ...
[07:11] <Kinnison> shaya: Hmm, right, one sec, let me look at what it should be trying
[07:11] <shaya> /proc/acpi/ibm/brightness
[07:11] <sivang> bah, can't find the menu itme there to unhide it
[07:12] <Kinnison> shaya: g-p-m uses hal's lcd controls
[07:12] <Kinnison> shaya: so if g-p-m can't control your brightness, it's actually a bug in hal
[07:13] <shaya> ok
[07:14] <Kinnison> shaya: thanks, and good luck
[07:15] <shaya> might not be a bug in hal directly
[07:15] <shaya> might be a permission issue
[07:16] <Kinnison> shaya: possibly
[07:16] <Kinnison> shaya: take a look in /usr/share/hal/scripts
[07:16] <Kinnison> shaya: there's lcd control scripts in there
[07:16] <shaya> no, not a permission problem
[07:16] <Kinnison> shaya: check that they would be doing the right thing
[07:16] <shaya> even with that fixed it works right
[07:17] <Kinnison> pardon?
[07:17] <shaya> doesn't work right
[07:17] <shaya> Q.
[07:18] <Kamion> please retest current install CDs for all derivatives
[07:19] <Kamion> Riddell, ogra: (kubuntu and edubuntu rebuilt too, for the Task/Priority field breakage ogra brought up above)
[07:19] <ogra> Kamion, rsync crashes for me ... 
[07:19] <ogra> i'm already trying to get the latest
[07:19] <Kamion> will be rebuilding ubuntu live (and edubuntu if you want) for several espresso bugs
[07:20] <Kamion> I'm having issues with my DVD burner, so at present I may only be able to test i386 in VMware
[07:20] <ogra> hmm ... they were fine last try ... not sure i want to risk that ...
[07:20] <ogra> anyway, go ahead ... :)
[07:20] <ogra> not risking something is for loosers :)
[07:21] <Kamion> ok, not mandatory, we just need to tell people not to try espresso on edubuntu ;-)
[07:21] <Keybuk> whoah
[07:21] <Keybuk> when packaging goes wrong
[07:21] <shaya> argh
[07:21] <ogra> nomeata, go ahead :)
[07:21] <Kamion> because it will result in an unbootable system if they try the autopartitioner
[07:21] <Keybuk> -rw-r--r--  1 scott scott 5.2M 2006-02-14 10:04 update-notifier_0.41.7.tar.gz
[07:21] <shaya> shift-backspace in Xgl is evil
[07:21] <ogra> GRRR 
[07:21] <ogra> Kamion, no, go ahead 
[07:21] <Kamion> Keybuk: seb128 filed a bug about that
[07:21] <Kamion> ok
[07:21] <shaya> Kinnison: well, advantage of killing X, when I restarted with the changed perms, it now works
[07:21] <Keybuk> Kamion: heh
[07:21] <shaya> so I guess this is a bug against ibm-acpi
[07:22] <shaya> only root can write to brightness
[07:22] <shaya> does that make sense?
[07:22] <Kinnison> shaya: the hal helpers should be running as root
[07:22] <seb128> Keybuk: the source package has like 15 versions of the .tar.gz :p
[07:22] <Keybuk> seb128: not to mention at least one deb
[07:22] <seb128> Keybuk: and some .deb and other stuff too
[07:22] <shaya> hmm
[07:22] <seb128> yeah :)
[07:22] <shaya> let me try putting perms back
[07:22] <shaya> and see if it was just a change in version for it
[07:22] <Keybuk> quest ubuntu% tar tzf update-notifier_0.41.7.tar.gz | grep "\.deb"
[07:22] <Keybuk> update-notifier/libgnomeui-dev_2.10.0-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
[07:22] <seb128> :)
[07:23] <Keybuk> methinks mvo needs a holiday ;)
[07:23] <ogra> is anybody else able to rsync currently ?
[07:23] <Kamion> he's on one
[07:23] <seb128> Keybuk: svn update from it :)
[07:23] <shaya> hmm
[07:23] <Keybuk> rofl
[07:23] <shaya> I guess new version fixed the problem
[07:23] <ogra> Kamion, he's moving house ... 
[07:23] <shaya> it works fine now
[07:23] <ogra> not *really* my definition of holiday :)
[07:23] <Keybuk> ooh, it contains an unpacked copy of an older version of its own source code too
[07:24] <dholbach> Keybuk: mvo asked me to strip cruft from his upload - do you want to do it or shall I? :)
[07:24] <seb128> mvo probably has a too fast internet upload
[07:24] <Kamion> ogra: did you happen to notice in your tests whether bug 31716 is fixed?
[07:24] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31716 in Ubuntu "PATH only contains /bin:/usr/bin on new installs" [Critical,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31716
[07:24] <seb128> he would have noticed other way :)
[07:24] <Keybuk> dholbach: you can do it :)
[07:24] <dholbach> ok
[07:24] <Keybuk> I'm just going to upload this package, then tidy up before the other half arrives and complains about how messy I am
[07:25] <dholbach> Keybuk: so you will do it?
[07:25] <Keybuk> dholbach: uh, I'm going to upload *network-manager* ... you can do update-notifier ;)
[07:25] <dholbach> okok
[07:25] <ogra> Kamion, sorry didnt check yet ... i wanted to do more testing on the i386 install i stopped whne you rebuilt the isos ... will follow up and close the bug if it works
[07:25] <Kamion> Tollef already closed it, I'm just checking up
[07:25] <Keybuk> Kamion: out of interest, do you know how to fix that on an installed system?
[07:25] <ogra> oh, k
[07:26] <Kamion> Keybuk: sudo /var/lib/dpkg/info/libpam-modules.postinst configure ''
[07:26] <Keybuk> ah, "put PATH back in /etc/environment" ? :)
[07:26] <Kamion> yep
[07:27] <Kamion> did you remove it, or was this a recent-ish fresh install?
[07:27] <Keybuk> recent fresh install
[07:27] <Keybuk> how come that got added there?  what put sbin in the PATH on breezy?
[07:27] <Kamion> it was hardcoded in everything that started a session
[07:27] <Keybuk> ah
[07:27] <Kamion> we've moved it to just one place
[07:27] <Keybuk> why does nothing bother reading ENV_PATH from login.defs?
[07:28] <Kamion> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/one-true-path
[07:28] <Kamion> because login.defs is a private configuration file and there's no stable way to access it
[07:28] <Kamion> /etc/environment is read by pam_env
[07:28] <Kamion> so it's more convenient anyway
[07:28] <Keybuk> *nods*
[07:28] <Keybuk> seems fair
[07:31] <Keybuk> "upload error made it out of the main loop"
[07:32] <Keybuk> "GENTLEMEN!  OUR FUGITIVE IS AN UPLOAD ERROR!  ESTIMATED SPEED ON FOOT IS THREE TO FOUR MILES PER HOUR"
[07:32] <sivang> heh
[07:33] <sivang> Burgwork: btw, I could find the itme to unhide it in the menu editor
[07:33] <sivang> Burgwork: the only hidden item there is GNOME control center
[07:35] <Keybuk> Kinnison: the uploader should recognise common mistakes, and just reply "uploading to unstable?  are you SURE you want to be on the distro team?"
[07:36] <ogra> giggle
[07:36] <Burgwork> sivang, you certain?
[07:36] <Kinnison> Keybuk:  well, that particular uploaderror should be converted to a reject
[07:36] <Kinnison> Keybuk: and a snarky message could ensue as a result
[07:36] <Keybuk> elmo had a good stock of them in jennifer
[07:36] <LaserJock> or you could just send it to unstable, I'm sure Debian wouldn't mind ;-)
[07:37] <Keybuk> "changelog mentions YOUR MOM!"
[07:37] <Keybuk> springs to mind
[07:37] <Kinnison> Keybuk: one issue is that the uploader has to be sane for derivatives too
[07:39] <sivang> Burgwork: yes
[07:41] <sivang> Burgwork: I just wanted to select multimedia system for crying out loude :-) It's not much I think..
[07:42] <Mithrandir> mdz: got a minute?
[07:43] <Burgwork> sivang, just run gnome-multimedia-selector from the cli
[07:44] <sivang> Burgwork: ah nice,I don't have this program on disk. /me goes to fetch it
[07:45] <shaya> here's another Q, is gnome-terminal having issues on dapper?  at least w/ compiz+Xgl multiple tabs in a gnome-terminal behave badly, but can open as many single tab terminals as I want
[07:45] <mdz> Mithrandir: yes
[07:45] <shaya> trying to figure out what could have caused this regression
[07:45] <shaya> as it was working fine at one point
[07:45] <ogra> shaya, please take that to #ubuntu-xgl
[07:45] <shaya> ogra: don't know if its an Xgl issue
[07:45] <shaya> hence the Q, does anyone else see it
[07:46] <Mithrandir> mdz: espresso needs a way to install -desktop without live.  I've added experimental support to casper for supporting "stacks" of filesystems where you'll have base + desktop + live being the live cd.  We'll need some changes to the build process, but that shouldn't be much of a problem.
[07:46] <Mithrandir> mdz: If we go this route, we're well into unionfs land with no return path.
[07:46] <Keybuk> damn, my office is warm
[07:47] <Mithrandir> mdz: as I'm a bit worried about just doing it, I wanted to bounce it off you so you can ack or nack it or come up with another suggestion.
[07:48] <Kinnison> dinner time
[07:48] <Kinnison> ciau
[07:52] <Kamion> Mithrandir: speaking of kbd-chooser verbosity as we were the other day, taking the set -x out of S55kbd-chooser would be much appreciated
[07:52] <Kamion> it's ugly on boot
[07:52] <Mithrandir> Kamion: you want me to walk through and rip it all out?
[07:52] <Kamion> yeah, if you have time
[07:52] <Kamion> I mean all the debugging in our diff against Debian, rather than all the debugging total
[07:52] <Mithrandir> sure, but not today.
[07:53] <Mithrandir> obviously. :-)
[07:53] <Mithrandir> I forgot to take it out before uploading, that's all
[07:53] <Kamion> fairy nuff
[07:56] <sivang> Treenaks: should I search for the key controlling the MM system used and change it there instead? :)
[07:56] <mdz> Mithrandir: that sounds more complex than removing -live afterward
[07:56] <mdz> which isn't trivial, but isn't unreasonable either
[07:56] <Treenaks> sivang: don't worry, it's a usability improvement :P
[07:56] <Mithrandir> mdz: Kamion was not happy with removing -live.  I have this code implemented and it works at least in my testing.
[07:57] <Mithrandir> mdz: it'll make customisers life easier and can make building CDs a whole lot faster too.
[07:57] <Mithrandir> (that's some of the other upsides)
[07:57] <mdz> Mithrandir: we need to be conservative; this is the theme for the entire release
[07:57] <Mithrandir> mdz: yes, that's part of the reason I'm asking you about this rather than just blasting through. :-)
[07:57] <mdz> this is not the time to make this type of infrastructure change
[07:57] <mdz> Mithrandir: my feeling is that we should keep it simple, even at the expense of some elegance, for dapper
[07:58] <mgalvin> so does everything on the default desktop install require gstreamer 0.10 (no more 0.8 by default)?
[07:58] <mdz> mgalvin: yes
[07:58] <mgalvin> mdz: thnx
[07:58] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ^^ what do you think?
[07:59] <mdz> let's review the issues with removing -live
[07:59] <mdz> the very worst I can think of is that we end up storing in the filesystem the list of packages to remove
[07:59] <ogra> sivang, whats wrong with running gstreamer-properties manually ?
[07:59] <mdz> which really isn't very bad at all
[08:00] <infinity> mdz: We also need to make perfectly sure that all those package purge cleanly (a goal anyway, to be certain, but we know we're not always bug-free there), so an espresso install and a "normal" install are essentially the same.
[08:00] <mdz> it's something for live CD customizers to trip over, but we have documentation for them, and it's a minor use case compared to installing the system
[08:01] <Mithrandir> on the other hand, we're already fairly screwed if unionfs doesn't work.  This is just using more than one ro-fs.
[08:01] <mdz> infinity: I think the bugs we'll encounter there, if any, will be shallow
[08:01] <infinity> mdz: The stacked unionfs thing is actually simpler in comparison, since we know exactly what the user will get after they click "install"
[08:01] <Mithrandir> it'll make custom addons absolutely trivial to make, though.
[08:01] <infinity> mdz: (I'll bet jbailey likes knowing exactly what users will have installed and in what state, too)
[08:01] <mdz> custom addons are not a goal for dapper however
[08:01] <Mithrandir> I made a 02_language_pack_nb.squashfs today, took about five minutes.
[08:02] <Mithrandir> so it'll make customising the live cd a lot easier
[08:02] <mdz> it's tempting, but we can't be tempted by unplanned features which involve adding complexity
[08:02] <mdz> espresso is risk enough as it is, but it's a risk we planned and evaluated well in advance
[08:03] <mdz> I like the idea, and it has a feeling of elegance to it, but it's something we should experiment with early in a 6-month release, not midway through development of a 5-year release
[08:04] <janimo> infinity, any idea why xfdesktop4 is not in the archive yet even if it was build successfully 9-10 hours ago? other packs I uploaded well after it are in the archive.
[08:04] <mdz> s/6/18/ BYKWIM
[08:04] <mdz> janimo: new binary perhaps?
[08:04] <Mithrandir> mdz: I see your point, yes.
[08:04] <janimo> mdz, not AFAIK
[08:04] <janimo> hmm
[08:05] <janimo> mdz, but could be indeed
[08:05] <mdz> Mithrandir: I don't expect you'll be reorganizing a lot of code in casper at this point, so the branch shouldn't be hard to merge later on
[08:05] <Mithrandir> mdz: nah, it'll be simple enough; I'm not worried about that.
[08:06] <janimo> I always forget to think NEW binary when things dont't show up
[08:06] <mdz> so there's no rush
[08:07] <sivang> ogra: what was so wrong with g-m-s ??
[08:08] <ogra> sivang, what is g-m-s ?
[08:08] <sistpoty> btw.: is there any ETA when requested syncs will be progressed again? I'm a little bit tempted to manually upload a sync (with the version just right below the actual synced version)
[08:08] <Burgwork> sivang, it lead people to royally screw things up
[08:08] <janimo> mdz, not new binary, but not the same either.
[08:08] <janimo> binary name is same, source is different from hoary/breezy but same as in warty
[08:09] <janimo> maybe this confused LP
[08:09] <janimo> xfdesktop4 vs xfdesktop
[08:09] <mdz> janimo: "new" means "wasn't built by the version of this source package in the archive"
[08:09] <mdz> (not really, but that's close enough)
[08:10] <mdz> it doesn't matter if it built it back in warty
[08:10] <mdz> someone should get mail about it, though
[08:10] <mdz> either infinity or you
[08:10] <janimo> well so far I only got mail if NEW source
[08:10] <janimo> never for binaries
[08:12] <janimo> mdz, http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/x/xfdesktop4/
[08:12] <mdz> janimo: yes, that was the case with katie
[08:12] <janimo> neither souce nor binary seem NEW, they were in warty. or I really don;t understand NEW
[08:12] <mdz> see above
[08:12] <janimo> so every new version
[08:13] <janimo> of source make binary NEW?I did not know that
[08:13] <mdz> if the package builds binary foo
[08:13] <mdz> then stops building it for a year
[08:13] <mdz> then builds it again
[08:13] <mdz> it's new
[08:13] <janimo> aha 'a year' that's the key word
[08:13] <mdz> you said warty
[08:13] <janimo> yes, but you did not say anything about time :)
[08:14] <janimo> passing and being taken into account
[08:14] <mdz> even if it's a week, I expect it would be new
[08:14] <mdz> as soon as the binary goes away
[08:14] <mdz> if there is no binary foo in dapper, and you start building foo in dapper, that's new
[08:14] <ogra> janimo, are you sure the binary was called xfdesktop4 not just xfdesktop in warty ? 
[08:14] <janimo> ah so it's purged from the archive. I thought if it's on the web it;s there
[08:14] <janimo> ogra, see link above, it's the same debian package
[08:15] <janimo> only since hoary did we go with a different one which changed the source pkg name
[08:15] <ogra> ah, yes, i see
[08:16] <Kamion> mdz: belatedly, the customisation case was the main one I was worried about, but if you don't think that's a big deal then fair enough. I can easily generate the set-difference of desktop and desktop+live using germinate and stick it on the CD somewhere; any suggestions for how that could be done in a way obvious to customisers?
[08:16] <janimo> I see now too. I was confused since it's at http://a.u.c I thought it;s in the archive NOW
[08:17] <Kamion> janimo: NEW <= "name of entity you just uploaded is not in the override file"
[08:17] <Kamion> ... for this release
[08:17] <janimo> Kamion, I don't know what the override file is but I am convinced now :)
[08:17] <Kamion> the override file is the list of source+binary packages the archive knows about for a given release
[08:17] <janimo> I wish LP showed what's in new ...
[08:17] <Kamion> there's one per component actually, but never mind that
[08:18] <janimo> and mailed me for binary NEW
[08:18] <infinity> It doesn't currently mail anyone about binary NEW.  That's yet to be written, AFAIK.
[08:18] <Kamion> mdz: (taking into account that espresso needs to figure out how to subtract language-{pack,support}-* and dependencies from that set-difference)
[08:19] <tseng> infinity: did you get my mess of messages early, or should i clean the up as an email?
[08:20] <infinity> tseng: I got it.  We're working on a bit of a soyuz oops where the njb-sharp powerpc upload mysteriously took a dive, then we should be back on track.
[08:20] <tseng> infinity: great, thanks alot
[08:21] <infinity> tseng: Thank Kinnison when he rescues njb-sharp. :)
[08:22] <mdz> Kamion: I really don't think that customization is the main case, and it's easily accounted for in a simple and documentable (though unintuitive) way
[08:23] <mdz> Kamion: we could even generate the list during the livefs build process
[08:23] <mdz> rather than calculating it
[08:23] <mdz> to ensure that it matches what was actually installed
[08:23] <mdz> we could seed the language stuff seprately if that's problematic
[08:23] <Kamion> I thought that's what I meant ...
[08:24] <Kamion> oh, I guess, germinate != livefs-build, fair enough
[08:24] <mdz> Kamion: I was suggesting recording package installation rather than calculating set differences
[08:24] <mdz> but either way works
[08:24] <Kamion> I'm concerned about reworking the language stuff at this point, for pretty much the same reason you're concerned about unionfs
[08:24] <mdz> so long as they're in sync
[08:24] <mdz> how does it work now?
[08:24] <Kamion> it's infrastructure and there are lots of complex warts in there that basically work now
[08:25] <Kamion> luck and judgement
[08:25] <mdz> I'm serious
[08:25] <Kamion> yeah, just trying to figure out where to start
[08:25] <Kamion> actually, I guess it isn't too bad for the live seed - the ship seed is the difficult case
[08:26] <ogra> Kamion, am i assumin right that the next livefs builds will wait for the two uploads you just did ? 
[08:26] <mdz> if it's that big a deal, we can ditch langpacks from the live CD
[08:26] <Kamion> for the live seed they just end up as dependencies of ubuntu-live
[08:26] <Kamion> we generally only have language-pack-en there anyway, but I don't want to remove that and then have to reinstall it
[08:27] <Kamion> and I think we do need to keep language-*-en on the live CD
[08:27] <Kamion> powerpc has some more language packs; again they're handled by *-meta
[08:27] <Kamion> so yeah, I take it back, it isn't too complicated to rework, but would need coordination between seeds and live CD build script
[08:28] <Kamion> I'll chat with infinity about it when he's next awake
[08:28] <infinity> Kamion: Mail me about it, I have a date with livecd.sh coming up anyway.
[08:28] <Kamion> 'k, will do
[08:29] <janimo> do you know when main promotions will be doable?
[08:29] <sivang> Burgwork: I see, so the new approach assumes the multimedia system works flawlessly out of the box, okay, I can understand that better.
[08:29] <mdz> they're already doable
[08:29] <Kamion> they're doable but need great care without anastacia
[08:29] <sivang> ogra: gnome-multimedia-selector
[08:29] <mdz> though the dependency checks aren't done automatically yet
[08:30] <ogra> sivang, dont know that ... is that another name for gstreamer-properties ?
[08:30] <sivang> ogra: apparently yes, when I run g-p I get the multimedia system selector :)
[08:31] <ogra> Kamion, gah, obvously the last build of install CDs is borked ... libgl1-mesa is broken
[08:31] <tseng>   * Migrate to my own style of packaging.
[08:31] <Kamion> ogra: syslog again?
[08:31] <tseng> Keybuk++
[08:32] <ogra> thats in the ltsp chroot building ... but i suspect it will happen in normal X installs as well ...
[08:33] <Keybuk> tseng: wrong trab?
[08:33] <Keybuk> uh, tab
[08:33] <janimo> so is it better to wait for anastacia in order to promote the xfce lot?
[08:33] <tseng> Keybuk: i was enjoying your changlog ^
[08:33] <Keybuk> n-m one?
[08:33] <tseng> yeah i wasnt digging the bzr patch thing
[08:34] <ogra> Kamion, weird errormessage ... "short read in buffer_copy (backend dpkg-deb during './usr/lib/dri/trident_dri.so')
[08:34] <ogra> Kamion, i'll let it finish to see if it also happens in the normal X install and have a syslog then
[08:34] <ogra> (ltsp client builder isnt logged)
[08:35] <Kamion> ogra: that smells of a CD build error
[08:35] <Kamion> er, burn error
[08:35] <Kamion> or possibly out of disk
[08:35] <ogra> might be related to the multiple rsync breakages i had
[08:35] <ogra> nope, it has a free 10Gig partition 
[08:35] <ogra> let me try i386 ... thats amd64 ...
[08:36] <Keybuk> tseng: I've been trying to use bzr here, but haven't got on with it yet
[08:36] <Keybuk> it's doo tricky to flip between patches
[08:36] <ogra> Kamion, mjg59 did a mesa upload to add xgl support to it between the two builds
[08:37] <tseng> the beagle maintainer had it all split out into like 10 tla archives
[08:37] <tseng> it was so hard to use
[08:37] <Kamion> I doubt any normal upload could trigger that error
[08:37] <ogra> i suspect its package breakage ... but lets see, i386 started ...
[08:37] <Kamion> you would have to be building the filesystem tarball in the deb by hand, or else assume a serious buildd glitch
[08:38] <Keybuk> tseng: in theory I have a bzr archive for each patch there, but I have a bad habit of just editing the last one in the list and then trying to make the patch properly after :)
[08:38] <infinity> ogra: If you suspect it's a broken package, download it from the archive and "dpkg -i" it by hand.
[08:39] <infinity> ogra: I suspect if it was a broken package, mesa would already have a few bugs filed on it, and there'd be posts to ubuntu-users to the effect of "OMG, DAPPER IS BROKEN!!111ONE"
[08:43] <Kamion> has anyone tested current amd64 and powerpc install CDs
[08:43] <Kamion> (Ubuntu)?
[08:43] <Keybuk> not today's, no
[08:44] <Keybuk> downloading isos on someone else's bandwidth seems cheeky :)
[08:44] <ogra> Keybuk, that'd be "last hours" rather
[08:45] <Kamion> yes, I do mean very current
[08:46] <ogra> Kamion, i'll grab them if i'm through with edubuntu
[08:49] <ogra> infinity, Kamion seems youre right ... mesa is fine on i386
[08:53] <infinity> ogra: Being fine on i386 doesn't mean the amd64 package isn't broken.  Please download it from the archive and try installing it to a chroot.  It is is broken, we need to rebuild it.
[08:54] <ogra> infinity, given that my amd64 currently installs a i386 iso i cant ...
[08:54] <ogra> but will do tat later
[09:03] <zyga> hi, could someone suggest any gtk+ debugger similar to ddd? I googled but I don't believe there is none
[09:06] <Keybuk> zyga: the one built in to anjuta?
[09:06] <zyga> Keybuk: thanks, worth a try
[09:06] <zyga> but I preffer stand-alone stuff, vim is my ide
[09:07] <Keybuk> if you like vim, surely gdb itself is enough? :)
[09:07] <Keybuk> I keep trying to ween myself off emacs and gdb to something like anjuta, or even just use emacs's internal gdb modes, but never have any luck
[09:08] <zyga> Keybuk: I always use 'bare' gdb but this time I need to go thru lots of data at runtime and I remeber a co-worker using a qt-based visual debugger - I kind of a liked that
[09:09] <Keybuk> I tried a KDE IDE once ... I didn't get along with that either
[09:09] <Keybuk> you know what I really really really really want?
[09:09] <Keybuk> The old Borland IDE, but done GTK+ style
[09:09] <Keybuk> the one that kept well out of your way until you needed it
[09:11] <zyga> Keybuk: arrrr... you speak well mate
[09:11] <zyga> rhide 
[09:11] <ogra> pide is a cool vim based IDE
[09:11] <zyga> with nice breakpoints and usefull text gui
[09:12] <ogra> (we should consider it as idle replacement once)
[09:12] <zyga> ogra: :-) checking!
[09:12] <zyga> no package :/
[09:12] <Keybuk> at some point I might do it as a project, but not today
[09:14] <zyga> ogra: is pide non-english based?
[09:14] <zyga> ogra: I cannot find any homepage that I'd understand
[09:15] <ogra> dunno, i never looked for webpages, i just installed it from universe ;)
[09:16] <zyga> ogra: hum? there is no such package
[09:16] <ogra> in dapper
[09:16] <zyga> yes in dapper 
[09:17] <ogra> err, sorry
[09:17] <ogra> its called pida
[09:17] <zyga> aaah :)
[09:17] <zyga> that's more like it :)
[09:18] <ogra> its a while ago that i tested it ... but was very convincing
[09:18] <zyga> looks nice
[09:19] <ogra> yup ... the gazpacho interface isnt done yet, but it integrates nicely with a python execution environment and the debugger
[09:19] <ogra> and you can use vim :)
[09:21] <zyga> I'm trying to run the debugger from there
[09:21] <jbailey> Keybuk: Y'know, when I thought of "old Borland IDE", my first though was Turbo Pascal... ;)
[09:21] <zyga> pastebin interface! :)
[09:22] <ogra> :)
[09:22] <zyga> jbailey: that's how many people touched programming, including me :-)
[09:22] <zyga> ogra: integrated python shell! :)
[09:22] <Keybuk> jbailey: indeed, or Delphi
[09:22] <jbailey> zyga: It wasn't my first contact with programming, but it was my first IDE.
[09:22] <zyga> I'm younger probably
[09:22] <jbailey> Electric Pencil can only take you so far. =)
[09:23] <zyga> hehe
[09:23] <cfk> what is the rsync for daily-dapper-server?
[09:24] <cfk> and whos idea was it to make the filename the same as.. not-server ?
[09:26] <jbailey> mdz: Around?
[09:27] <mdz> jbailey: yes
[09:29] <jbailey> mdz: The old debbugs imports into bugzilla got openned as separate tasks.  When the Ubuntu tasks get closed, the debian tasks stay open and it causes the bug to still show up in subscription lists.  Can we consider asking the Launchpad folks to just delete the old Debian tasks until they get synchronisation working again?
[09:29] <mdz> jbailey: I've talked with kiko about this
[09:29] <mdz> jbailey: let's ->#launchpad
[09:31] <sivang> okay, what package should I file a bug with gnome events sounds not working against?
[09:31] <LaserJock> who would I need to talk to to get a package moved from multiverse to universe?
[09:31] <sivang> (I've exhusted all possibilities, I think)
[09:33] <zyga> sivang: ask seb128 in -desktop probably
[09:33] <sivang> zyga: he's not here, keep it for monday probably :)
[09:34] <zyga> ah :)
[09:34] <sivang> zyga: do you happen to know how the gnome "desktop" plays it's event sounds, that is, which tool it uses to do so ?
[09:35] <ogra> gah where is keybuk ...
[09:35] <zyga> sivang: probably builtin api 
[09:35] <ogra> grmpf 
[09:35] <zyga> (like: no external binary to play sounds)
[09:35] <sivang> yes, I understodo the first time :)
[09:36] <ogra> Kamion, apart from ltsp being totally broken on the current install, edubuntu itself installs fine :(
[09:36] <ogra> i386 that is
[09:37] <ogra> but the system insists that no package named ldm exists ... grmpf
[09:59] <ogra> infinity, mesa is fine in the chroot ...
[09:59] <ogra> (amd64)
[10:11] <jdong> is it true that Metacity will have a compositing manager built in?
[10:11] <tseng> its an option
[10:11] <tseng> that doesnt mean it will ship like that
[10:12] <jdong> tseng: interesting... will we opt for it?
[10:12] <Kyral> Nice job with the Installer guys
[10:12] <tseng> we dont have compositing on by default in X, either
[10:12] <tseng> jdong: i doubt it, ask seb128 
[10:12] <jdong> tseng/seb128: will our metacity have the gconf option for compositing?
[10:12] <tseng> who said anything about gconf
[10:12] <tseng> i am talking about build time
[10:13] <jdong> tseng: http://www.gnome.org/~davyd/gnome-2-14/images/compositing-manager-large.png
[10:13] <jdong> I don't expect composite features to be enabled by default
[10:13] <tseng> yes I have seen this page
[10:13] <jdong> just wondering if our metacity will have support for it
[10:13] <tseng> sigh
[10:13] <ogra> its a build option patch ...
[10:13] <tseng> if you dont compile it in
[10:13] <tseng> it doesnt matter if it is enabled or whatnot by default, its just not there.
[10:13] <tseng> is what im trying to get across
[10:14] <tseng> i dont expect we will do this
[10:14] <jdong> ok; does applying the composite patch do anything negative to non-composite operation?
[10:14] <tseng> "introduces untested code late in the cycle"
[10:14] <tseng> at the very least
[10:14] <ogra> yay
[10:15] <ogra> and live with it for 3 years :)
[10:15] <tseng> compositing will mostly pan out in dapper+1, we are on the tip of the iceberg
[10:15] <tseng> there are no solutions that are ready for dapper
[10:16] <jdong> ok, understood
[10:16] <seb128> jdong: depending of upstream, dapper is supposed to be stable and will be, so no new bugged crack by default, there is no point to that
[10:16] <Kamion> Kyral: which one? :-)
[10:17] <jdong> alright, understood; I'll stop bugging you guys now
[10:17] <Kamion> Kinnison: any idea what's happened to espresso builds for !i386? i386's built, everything else is needs-build ...
[10:17] <ogra> Kamion, see #c 
[10:18] <ogra> Kamion, seems to be a serious problem currently ...
[10:18] <Kamion> well, it's not immediately clear it's all the same issue
[10:18] <ogra> nope ...
[10:19] <ogra> but likely that its related 
[10:19] <ogra> i'd really like to get this ltsp fix into flight4 ... else ltsp will be unusable ...
[10:21] <jordi> seb128: what did I do this time?
[10:21] <Kyral> Kamion: Espresso
[10:22] <Kyral> Kamion: I dl'd a daily build and loaded it in VMWare
[10:22] <seb128> jordi: that was from chpe, you ship the bugged adblock with epiphany to Debian
[10:23] <jordi> I know. :)
[10:23] <seb128> jordi: I said to not ship it and now upstream is bugged because of you
[10:23] <jordi> next upload disables it
[10:23] <jordi> damn
[10:23] <Kamion> Kyral: excellent, glad you like it
[10:23] <Kyral> Kamion: you want me to put the console dump someplace?
[10:23] <Kamion> still a lot to go in, but it's starting to come together
[10:23] <seb128> jordi: there is nothing to win to bother upstream :)
[10:23] <Kyral> Yah, can I make a few suggestions?
[10:23] <Kamion> Kyral: sure - it does witter a bit, chiefly in partman
[10:23] <Kamion> Kyral: preferably in bug reports
[10:24] <Kyral> kk
[10:24] <jordi> seb128: was he very pissed?
[10:24] <Kamion> certainly what we have now is by no means final or untouchable
[10:24] <Kyral> I know
[10:24] <Kamion> in fact it's more "we need to get something out there ASAP"
[10:24] <seb128> jordi: I don't think so, just a bit surprised that Debian ship it :)
[10:24] <jordi> nod
[10:24] <Kyral> Just what jumped out at me was there is no way to it 'cept via CLI
[10:24] <jordi> I've wanted to upload a fix for this for months
[10:24] <jordi> sigh
[10:24] <Kamion> Kyral: that's fixed
[10:25] <Kamion> current dailies have a link on the desktop
[10:25] <seb128> jordi: 
        jordim packages adblock for 1.8??
[10:25] <jordi> I'm seriously swamped
[10:25] <Kamion> (per the specification)
[10:25] <Kyral> Kamion: Okay I'll download a new daily
        seb128: next time you'll meet him, give him a good paddling :P
[10:25] <seb128> jordi: that's all :)
[10:25] <jordi> X)
[10:25] <Kamion> Kyral: might want to apt-get upgrade a daily before running espresso, there are fixes I'm trying to get in
[10:25] <Kamion> but the Launchpad buildds hate me today so it's delayed
[10:25] <Kyral> Kamion: like the Kernel bug?
[10:26] <Kamion> nah, espresso 0.99.14
[10:26] <Kamion> you'll get an unbootable system otherwise if you use the autopartitioner
[10:26] <Kyral> ah
[10:27] <Kamion> (hosed /etc/fstab => hosed /boot/grub/menu.lst)
[10:27] <Kyral> yah I know
[10:27] <Kyral> I was referring to he bug hitting both Dapper and Sid
[10:27] <ogra> Kamion, postpone to monday ?
[10:27] <Kamion> no idea what that is
[10:27] <Kyral> Lemme snag the LP bug
[10:27] <Kamion> ogra: not if I don't have to; feel free to mail me any outstanding issues on your side and I'll make sure they get resolved
[10:27] <ogra> Kamion, i'll do the install image tests for ubuntu as well ... 
[10:28] <Kamion> thanks, I can only do i386 at the moment
[10:28] <ogra> but i'd really like t see the ltsp fix in ... and it doesnt look like that will happen today
[10:29] <Kamion> ogra: have you managed a source upload of it?
[10:29] <Kamion> i.e. are you just waiting for binaries, or is the source upload broken too?
[10:29] <ogra> Kamion, nope, that was the weird reject error i spoke about
[10:29] <ogra> in #c
[10:29] <Kamion> could you put the upload somewhere so I can try reuploading it?
[10:29] <ogra> yup
[10:30] <ogra> do you have dirct access to drescher ?
[10:30] <Kamion> yes
[10:31] <Kamion> what version of ltsp?
[10:31] <ogra> 0.75
[10:31] <ogra> just poshing it to rookery ...
[10:31] <ogra> *pushing
[10:31] <Kamion> while I realise this is a cop-out, have you tried just uploading again?
[10:32] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/
[10:32] <ogra> nope, i'll do ...
[10:32] <Kamion> please
[10:32] <jordi> seb128:    #352850: Epiphany crashes when closing
[10:32] <jordi> seb128: this sounds like it too, right?
[10:33] <wickers> question: how much of novell's code will ubuntu be using? with their changes to gnome, xgl, compiz?
[10:33] <seb128> jordi: there is a combinaison of firefox and epiphany fixes, I don't think we should fix it while we build with mozilla but ask to chpe
[10:34] <seb128> wickers: you want to join #ubuntu-xgl, and most of the xgl stuff are already to dapper universe
[10:34] <jordi> seb128: I mean, if those "crwash when exiting" is caused by adblock.
[10:34] <wickers> yeah, but i'm mostly intersted in novell's changed to gnome
[10:34] <seb128> wickers: we will not use them by default for dapper though (too young, dependant of good videos performances, driver, etc)
[10:34] <jordi> I was under the impression it is. Do you know if it's a different bug?
[10:34] <seb128> jordi: there was one of those yeah, but dunno if that changelog entry is the same one
[10:35] <wickers> They have done a lot of work in useability with NLD10's gnome interface...
[10:35] <seb128> there may had been different crashes on exit
[10:35] <jordi> I only started to see them with adblock tho
[10:35] <sivang> seb128: has people reported they don't have gnome events sounds? pitti told me to ditch polypaudio and I did so, I also used gst-properties to set everythignt to ALSA. I gett _all_ other sounds. What else can I do to have the login sound and other events back? (when running gnome-sound-properties I get '/usr/bin/esd' not found on the terminal)
[10:35] <seb128> wickers: like the panel applet? is there any code public yey?
[10:35] <Kamion> ogra: it worked this time
[10:35] <ogra> no mail yet ...
[10:35] <seb128> sivang: install esound
[10:35] <Kamion> Listing ubuntu/dapper (ACCEPTED) 1/2
[10:35] <Kamion> ---------|----|----------------------|----------------------|---------------
[10:35] <ogra> Kamion, YAY 
[10:35] <wickers> seb128, they say that they hope gnome developers use their code.
[10:35] <Kamion>     3184 | S- | ltsp                 | 0.75                 | 40 seconds
[10:35] <Kamion>          | ltsp/0.75 Component: main Section: misc
[10:35] <wickers> so I suspect it's open
[10:35] <ogra> just got it
[10:35] <Kamion> ---------|----|----------------------|----------------------|---------------
[10:36] <seb128> wickers: yeah, but just not now, it's too early for that, I'm not sure there is any code public yet
[10:36] <seb128> wickers: withing 6 months maybe
[10:36] <wickers> mm
[10:36] <Kyral> finally found the bug
[10:36] <Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/31347
[10:36] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31347 in ubuntu-docs "2.6.15-15.21_i686 does not boot (depmod not found)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[10:39] <Kamion> ogra: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-upload-and-queue/+bug/31820
[10:39] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31820 in launchpad-upload-and-queue "mysterious exception during accept on ltsp 0.75" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[10:39] <ogra> Kamion, thanks 
[10:39] <sivang> seb128: thanks, pitti told me I do not need esd because dmix takes care of it now.
[10:40] <seb128> sivang: that's true but libgnome use esound for sound events, so you need esound for those
[10:40] <seb128> if you don't need sound events, you don't need esound
[10:41] <sivang> seb128: thank you very very much. also, for explaining this.
[10:41] <seb128> np
[10:41] <sivang> :)
[10:42] <ogra> seb128, i still wonder if its really that hard to change it to gstreamer 
[10:43] <seb128> ogra: depending of "that hard", probably some hundreds of line of code, like 1 week of work for somebody having some gst clue to get it working and tested
[10:44] <ogra> wow, i wouldnt have guessed in hundrets
[10:45] <seb128> ogra: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=38115&action=view
[10:46] <seb128> ogra: that's a first untested patch for libgnome for upstream
[10:46] <seb128> there is some libgnomeui and some g-c-c patching required too
[10:47] <sivang> yeah, looks like quite some work 
[10:47] <ogra> but untested is untested 
[10:47] <seb128> yeah, imho that's not really hard task once you know what to change
[10:47] <seb128> and how to change it
[10:47] <ogra> still rather dapper+1 ...
[10:47] <ogra> execpt you know it in and out ...
[10:47] <seb128> probably
[10:47] <seb128> the patch is for gst0.8 anyway
[10:47] <seb128> so somebody needs to write a gst0.10 one
[10:48] <seb128> and get testing, debug, feedback, etc
[10:48] <ogra> yup
[10:49] <seb128> ogra: one other issue is that libgnome would Depends on gst ...
[10:50] <ogra> is that bad ? we have it installed anyway ... are there usecases where people install libgnome standalone ?
[10:50] <seb128> as far as I'm concerned that's fine
[10:51] <seb128> but dunno about xfce guys by example
[10:51] <ogra> yes ... even KDE depends on gst now
[10:51] <ogra> at least in kubuntu :)
[10:51] <seb128> (not true for dapper)
[10:51] <ogra> oh ? i thought they wanted 
[10:51] <seb128> (since they didn't port to gst0.10 yet and we moved gst0.8 to universe)
[10:51] <ogra> ah
[10:52] <ogra> yeah, i remember ...
[10:56] <ogra> wow, i wasnt aware that you end up with a complete gnome if you only apt-get install gdm on a clean chroot 
[10:58] <seb128> ogra: you don't
[10:58] <seb128> ogra: do you install Recommends or what?
[10:59] <ogra> seb128, i have this prob in ltsp clients currently ... one of the debian guys added x-display-manager as an alternative dependency to ltsp-client ... it pulls in gnome-session
[11:00] <ogra> from gdm depends:  gnome-session | xterm | x-window-manager | x-terminal-emulator
[11:00] <ogra> it will take the first one available ...
[11:01] <seb128> right
[11:01] <seb128> but gnome-session is far to grab the whole GNOME
[11:01] <ogra> took me a while to find out why my thin client chroots had control-center and the like installed
[11:02] <ogra> and ldm got dropped from the edubuntu CD since gdm already provides x-display-manager ...
[11:02] <ogra> crazy bug ...
[11:03] <ogra> Kinnison, on ltsp as well please 
[11:03] <Kinnison> one at a time eh?
[11:04] <ogra> yeah ....
[11:04] <ogra> but espresso and ltsp are flight 4 stuff ...
[11:08] <Kinnison> I've just unstuck all the builders
[11:08] <Kinnison> all but i386 were marked failed
[11:08] <Kinnison> probably internal network hiccough in the DC
[11:10] <ogra> yup
[11:10] <ogra> its a bad time for preparing a flight release ...
[11:10] <ogra> but looks like we're nearly done ...
[11:11] <ogra> i had surely none yet that was this tricky to prepare ...
[11:13] <Kinnison> Yes it's just unfortunate
[11:14] <Kinnison> this DC move has caused/exposed issues
[11:16] <ogra> yup
[11:17] <ogra> but it puts extra pressure on elmo and Znarl as well ... thats sad ...
[11:17] <Kinnison> The buildd master should be able to recover from this situation
[11:17] <Kinnison> I've proposed a way to recover
[11:17] <Kinnison> we just need to code it
[11:21] <ogra> Kinnison, you didnt reject bug 31822 ?
[11:21] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31822 in gnome-power-manager "Please restore suspend lid action" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31822
[11:22] <Kinnison> I didn't reject it because personally I don't agree with upstream's decision
[11:22] <Kinnison> we'll see what happens when I punt users at that bug in gnome
[11:23] <Kinnison> if upstream stick by their decision then I'll reject the bug
[11:23] <ogra> yup
[11:25] <Burgwork> Kinnison, as long as resume is fast from suspend, there is no reason why we shouldn't suspend all the time
[11:25] <Kinnison> Burgwork: there's a very good reason
[11:25] <Kinnison> Burgwork:  you may have a process which is actively talking to the network
[11:25] <Kinnison> Burgwork: suspending would fuck that up
[11:25] <Kinnison> personally I never suspend on lid action
[11:25] <Kinnison> because I think that's crackful
[11:25] <Kinnison> but hey :-)
[11:26] <ogra> me too
[11:26] <Burgwork> Kinnison, if you have a running process, why are you closing the lid?
[11:26] <ogra> i want my mail to still be delivered
[11:26] <Kinnison> Burgwork: maybe I'm about to get up and walk from one room to another
[11:27] <Kinnison> Burgwork: maybe I'm closing the lid so as to not be distracted while someone speaks to me
[11:27] <Kinnison> Burgwork: I can think of a bajillion reasons
[11:27] <Burgwork> yes, but the most common I suspect is to carry it around
[11:27] <Kinnison> indeed
[11:27] <Kinnison> and I don't want to drop off irc while I move from room to room
[11:27] <Burgwork> and then you do want to suspend, as you are not using it
[11:28] <Burgwork> that is a bug in the irc client, imho
[11:28] <Kinnison> what? it's a bug in the irc client that you've disconnected it from the network so it can't talk?
[11:28] <ogra> heh
[11:28] <Burgwork> Kinnison, no, that it didn't come back from suspend
[11:28] <Kinnison> that's like saying "It's a bug in linux that it doesn't run updatedb while the computer is off"
[11:28] <Kinnison> Burgwork: TCP timeouts
[11:29] <Kinnison> yes
[11:36] <ogra> thanks for speeding up ltsp :)
[11:37] <Kinnison> y'welcome
[11:41] <typonaise> does anybody know what happened to the debian/ubuntu-hardened project and where trulux and company hang out now?