[03:22] <wincide> hi
[03:01] <Madpilot> morning all
[03:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> hey.
[03:02] <jsgotangco> hi ho!
[03:02] <robotgeek> mornin
[03:02] <jsgotangco> shall we?
[03:02] <jsgotangco> who's here?
[03:03] <jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser, welcome nonetheless :)
[03:03] <Kamping_Kaiser> :) thanks
[03:03] <jsgotangco> ok https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
[03:03] <jsgotangco> is the agenda
[03:03] <jsgotangco> i wasn't at the last meeting so i dunno what transpired there
[03:03] <jsgotangco> (there was no summary either)
[03:03] <jjesse> mdke around?
[03:04] <jsgotangco> probably at work
[03:04] <jsgotangco> #1 Use of common files for a number of documents. For example, preface.xml and getting-help.xml should be common between all documents. (mdke)
[03:04] <jsgotangco> hmm
[03:04] <jsgotangco> anyone have an idea about that?
[03:04] <jjesse> the same across kubuntu and ubuntu docs?
[03:04] <jsgotangco> bhuvan, just in time
[03:05] <jsgotangco> hmm
[03:05] <jsgotangco> i think so
[03:05] <robotgeek> maybe it can be same for ubuntu, same for all kubuntu stuff
[03:05] <jsgotangco> aren't they common before?
[03:05] <Madpilot> I assume mdke means the getting-help.xml in the (k)ubuntu Desktop guides?
[03:06] <jsgotangco> he
[03:06] <jsgotangco> he's not here anyhow
[03:06] <jsgotangco> let's go to #2 first
[03:06] <jsgotangco> #
[03:06] <jsgotangco> WikiCleanupProposal
[03:06] <jsgotangco>     *
[03:06] <jsgotangco>       discussion of approval of the suggested reforms
[03:06] <jsgotangco> hrmmm
[03:06] <jjesse> wwhy is it so hard to get doc team people to show up to these meetigns/
[03:06] <jjesse> ?
[03:07] <jsgotangco> jjesse, good question
[03:07] <Madpilot> have people had a look at UserDocumentationBeta?
[03:07] <jsgotangco> our man from brisbane isn't here
[03:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> jjesse: because it's such a spread out group maybe *shrug*
[03:07] <jsgotangco> Namaan
[03:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> jsgotangco: it's 1am brisbane (au) time (iirc)
[03:07] <jsgotangco> hmm
[03:07] <jsgotangco> right
[03:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> it's 00:37 here.
[03:08] <jsgotangco> where are you at?
[03:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> central Australia
[03:08] <jsgotangco> thought so
[03:08] <jsgotangco> Alice Springs?
[03:08] <jsgotangco> anyway
[03:09] <Kamping_Kaiser> Adelaide (hills)
[03:09] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, what about UserDocumentationBeta
[03:09] <jsgotangco> none?
[03:10] <jsgotangco> ok #3
[03:10] <bhuvan> its me!
[03:10] <jsgotangco>  Review ServerGuide sections
[03:10] <bhuvan> service guide is almost through
[03:10] <jsgotangco> bhuvan, go go go
[03:10] <bhuvan> i prefer to proof-read the sections and set it finished
[03:11] <jsgotangco> how complete is it?
[03:11] <bhuvan> technically, it is complete 90% complete
[03:11] <jsgotangco> whoa
[03:11] <jjesse> that's awesome
[03:12] <jsgotangco> bhuvan, when do you expect the manuscript to be done?
[03:12] <jsgotangco> a week more?
[03:12] <bhuvan> some one should check the english/grammar and what not ?
[03:12] <bhuvan> if you mean translation, once proof reading is complete ?
[03:12] <jsgotangco> DocumentationStringFreeze is on March 23 that gives us 1 month to review the document before passing it for translation
[03:13] <jsgotangco> that's really really good
[03:13] <bhuvan> so, we have enough time. but remember the status remains for couple of weeks now!
[03:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> jsgotangco: does that mean we have a month to clean up the wording, or 1 month of translaiton time?
[03:13] <Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser: a month of cleanup
[03:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> cool
[03:14] <jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser, we have almost a month to finish up the documents before passing it for translation
[03:14] <jsgotangco> translation is given almost a month
[03:14] <jsgotangco> bhuvan, ping us when the manuscript is done
[03:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> wow ok
[03:14] <jsgotangco> then i can arrange for a review day
[03:14] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ?
[03:14] <jsgotangco> DOCREVU
[03:14] <Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser: there's a Dapper release timetable on the wiki somewhere
[03:15] <jsgotangco> bhuvan, you can send to the list when its 100% right?
[03:15] <jsgotangco> then we can do reviews
[03:15] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[03:15] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:15] <jsgotangco> (i'll start reading in advance)
[03:15] <jjesse> can we start reviewing before the doc is 100% or do you just want us to wait for making suggestions?
[03:15] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> thanks Madpilot
[03:15] <jsgotangco> we can start review in advance
[03:16] <bhuvan> jjesse, i want to continue with review 
[03:16] <bhuvan> jjesse, we need not wait till it is 100% complete
[03:16] <jsgotangco> i suggest people who review edit the document by only adding <!-- comments -->
[03:16] <jsgotangco> comments nothing more
[03:16] <bhuvan> jjesse, imo, we should wait to complete 100% before moving to translation
[03:16] <jjesse> agreed
[03:16] <jsgotangco> unless we actually see a typo
[03:16] <jjesse> to comments
[03:16] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, agreed
[03:16] <jsgotangco> cool?
[03:17] <jsgotangco> <!-- jsgotangco: foo foobar -->
[03:17] <bhuvan> <!-- foo foobar --> should be ok; author can be identified by userid ?
[03:18] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, or you expect people to submit patches for review ?
[03:18] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[03:18] <jsgotangco> good question
[03:18] <jsgotangco> it could be silly to commit patches that only have comments though
[03:18] <jsgotangco> i guess doc.ubuntu.com will be of good use here
[03:18] <jsgotangco> on second thought
[03:18] <jjesse> couldn't suggestions become comments and actually technical problems or issues be actually commeted?
[03:18] <jjesse> committed
[03:18] <bhuvan> in the past, how did we handle this situation ?
[03:19] <jsgotangco> we didn't review much before to be honest
[03:19] <jsgotangco> no time
[03:19] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:19] <jsgotangco> but a month is really good
[03:19] <jjesse> if for say something in the ssh section could be done a different way, then use the comment section to suggest the change, but if there is a technical problem with the guide or a grammical problem then actually make the change?
[03:19] <jsgotangco> how about we schedule a week of review from witihin the group....
[03:19] <jsgotangco> then after the group review, we open it up for community
[03:20] <bhuvan> jjesse, let the author make final correction irrespective of whether it is suggestion, correction or technical problem
[03:21] <bhuvan> jjesse, let the author take a call
[03:21] <jsgotangco> unless the entry is very very erroneous
[03:21] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, in this context, how will d.u.c be of good use ?
[03:21] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, agreed
[03:22] <jsgotangco> bhuvan, d.u.c. creates a build of the doc in html
[03:22] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, yeah 
[03:22] <jsgotangco> i was thinking of having peer review first before community
[03:22] <jsgotangco> peer review (those with commit)
[03:22] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, yep! it makes more sense
[03:23] <jsgotangco> bhuvan, when can we expect it to be done?
[03:23] <jjesse> how do you limit that? send a mail to only those with commit access?
[03:24] <jsgotangco> well it doesn't make sense to commit comment patches...
[03:24] <bhuvan> or, shall we maintain a review file in repo and add comments/suggestions/corrections into it. the author can review and make appropriate corrections in main document; it is just a thought though
[03:24] <jsgotangco> hmm
[03:24] <jsgotangco> ok
[03:25] <jsgotangco> i don't think we'll have a decision on this now
[03:25] <jsgotangco> i will make an email later about  this
[03:25] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:25] <jsgotangco> we'll get better suggestions if we use the list
[03:25] <jsgotangco> i'll also look at how others do it
[03:26] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, we should do this in quick time
[03:26] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:26] <jsgotangco> i'll send an email later
[03:26] <jsgotangco> promise
[03:26] <bhuvan> once we finalise the method, we can go about the review and sure we may adopt the same method for other documents too..
[03:26] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:27] <jjesse> that would be one part taht would be nice to standarize on 
[03:27] <jsgotangco> ok so we cool here?
[03:27] <bhuvan> jjesse, jsgotangco: yes
[03:27] <jsgotangco> ok who has an update for other docs
[03:27] <jsgotangco> ?
[03:27] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:28] <robotgeek> well, on the Kubuntu DG front, i have been receving lots of help
[03:28] <jsgotangco> robotgeek, yes awesome
[03:28] <bhuvan> robotgeek, you are lucky :)
[03:28] <bhuvan> it would be great if we insist on a up-to-date status report of all documents
[03:29] <robotgeek> people seem to be put off by the whole docbook format, so i offered to convert it to docbook for them. 
[03:29] <bhuvan> ie.. it should be part of make target
[03:29] <robotgeek> they all learnt docbook, btw
[03:29] <jsgotangco> robotgeek, understandable, we don't have much choice at the moment, it needs some pretty deep brainstorming
[03:30] <robotgeek> i have to convert it to follow KDE style guide explicitly, hopefully a decent amount of work will be finished by next week
[03:30] <jsgotangco> robotgeek, what's the status of the doc?
[03:30] <Madpilot> bhuvan: Ubuntu Desktop Guide now has status reports that're far more complete, anyway - I added most of the missing status tags last week
[03:31] <robotgeek> hmm, about 3 chapters done (75%), 2 to start
[03:31] <bhuvan> Madpilot, excellent
[03:32] <robotgeek> i'm still trying to get content in there, removing it later on will be easier
[03:32] <robotgeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/KubuntuDesktopGuide
[03:33] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[03:33] <jsgotangco> its not part of the build
[03:33] <Madpilot> robotgeek: you should add an entry here - or coordinate with jsgotangco to get it added: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects
[03:34] <robotgeek> Madpilot: okay, will do
[03:34] <Madpilot> afk - back in a sec
[03:34] <jsgotangco> okay
[03:34] <jsgotangco> i haven't updated the quickguide much
[03:34] <jsgotangco> kubuntu
[03:34] <jjesse> i haven't either :(
[03:34] <jsgotangco> but i'll look into the desktop guide and see
[03:35] <jjesse> for ubuntu or kubuntu?
[03:35] <jsgotangco> it'll probably become redundant if the desktop guide will rock
[03:35] <jsgotangco> kubuntu
[03:35] <jjesse> we are currently shipping about-kubuntu kubuntu releasenotes and also the quickguide
[03:35] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:36] <jsgotangco> well that's the plan
[03:36] <jsgotangco> but robotgeek and co. had been up to speed with the kdg
[03:36] <Madpilot> back - which reminds me... jsgotangco, can you politely prod elmo or someone about my commit rights please?
[03:36] <jsgotangco> (although i haven't read that much)
[03:36] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, ok
[03:37] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, did you give him your key?
[03:37] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: it's on LP
[03:37] <jsgotangco> oh yeah
[03:37] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: as i said earlier, getting content in there, need to give it a thorough cleanup. 
[03:37] <jsgotangco> sorry
[03:37] <jsgotangco> robotgeek, just send patch i'll commit
[03:37] <jjesse> robotgeek: were you at teh kubuntu meeting yesterdya? i don't remember if you were or not
[03:38] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: https://launchpad.net/people/yh728
[03:38] <robotgeek> i was there jjesse 
[03:38] <jjesse> ok
[03:38] <bhuvan> Madpilot, in the first look, it seems all "In progress" should become "Review" (ex: Adding, Removing and Updating Applications)
[03:38] <jsgotangco> hmm mhz isn't here
[03:38] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, funny heh members should be whitelisted imho
[03:38] <jjesse> i can look at the desktop guide as soon as my new laptop gets in :(
[03:39] <jsgotangco> take note "new"
[03:39] <jsgotangco> wooo
[03:39] <Madpilot> bhuvan: for Ubuntu DG? Probably, I just wanted to get the status tags in to start with
[03:39] <jjesse> note new: kubuntu chapter and changes were on there and hadn't backed up :(
[03:39] <robotgeek> ouch
[03:39] <jsgotangco> jeezz
[03:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> bugger
[03:40] <jjesse> but getting them resent so it isn't that bad
[03:40] <bhuvan> Madpilot, ok
[03:40] <jsgotangco> anyway
[03:40] <jsgotangco> we're doing good now
[03:40] <jsgotangco> in edubuntu side, me and mhz are drafting a quick doc
[03:40] <jsgotangco> just ot make sure we have an edubuntu guide
[03:40] <jsgotangco> not to complez
[03:41] <jjesse> and the cookbook is rocking from what i've heard
[03:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> jsgotangco: I'm willing to help with content if i have time
[03:41] <jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser, cool...we're going to talk about it this weekend
[03:41] <jsgotangco> just a very basic doc overview
[03:41] <jsgotangco> (more desktop oriented)
[03:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> jsgotangco: ok
[03:42] <jsgotangco> ok my TODO tonight are:
[03:42] <jsgotangco> #1 send email to list about review plan
[03:42] <jsgotangco> #2 update DocteamProjects
[03:43] <jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser, i'll discuss to you the plan later
[03:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> jsgotangco: np. in -doc some time iis cool
[03:43] <jsgotangco> ok we've discussed all in agenda, we're now open to anyone who asks
[03:45] <jsgotangco> oh and #3 bug about svn access
[03:45] <jsgotangco> anything else?
[03:45] <robotgeek> i think everyone is happy
[03:45] <jsgotangco> oh wait
[03:45] <jjesse> robotgeek: will the desktop guide get finished by doc freeze?
[03:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> do we have document templagtes?
[03:45] <jsgotangco> wait wait
[03:45] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ebuntu
[03:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> oh

[03:46] <robotgeek> jjesse: hmm, i sure hope so!
[03:46] <jsgotangco> The [WWW]  Documentation Team is organising documentation for Ebuntu, and for more please contact [WWW]  Manish Chakravarty
[03:46] <jsgotangco> who is Manish Chakravarty?????
[03:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> the bloke who made ubuntu+E17
[03:46] <bhuvan> name suggests, he is an indian!
[03:46] <jsgotangco> doh obviously! heh
[03:46] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: ogra mailed on the lists to change the name
[03:47] <jjesse> umm didn't know the doc team was doing things on that :)
[03:47] <robotgeek> yeah bhuvan 
[03:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> jjesse: it's not :)
[03:47] <ogra> yup, i did 
[03:47] <Madpilot> jjesse: sounds like it's news to the DocTeam too :P
[03:47] <jjesse> accordign to the wiki it is :)
[03:47] <jsgotangco> awesome we have active E17 docteam
[03:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> got an co.in yahoo account 
[03:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> *he's got
[03:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> jjesse:  it's not an offical (or even remotely offical) project - it's not our problem
[03:48] <jsgotangco> well 2 of the active docteam contributors are indian, i'm not complaining...but this is soo wrong
[03:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> i don't care where he's from, i care that he's saying the docteam will do (his) work
[03:48] <jsgotangco> right
[03:48] <robotgeek> :) 
[03:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> *gets worked up*
[03:49] <jsgotangco> i'll look for the thread too
[03:49] <Madpilot> anyone been to this #ebuntu channel yet?
[03:49] <jsgotangco> ok that's #4 todo
[03:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> nope
[03:49] <jsgotangco> bhuvan, nope
[03:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> no
[03:49] <bhuvan> oh!
[03:50] <robotgeek> which is the whole problem, bhuvan 
[03:50] <ogra> they are totally unrelated 
[03:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> which is anotehr problem (which is up for discusion)
[03:50] <Madpilot> bhuvan: see the wiki link jsgotangco posted above
[03:50] <ogra> but you cant force them 
[03:50] <ogra> just beg to change that 
[03:50] <jsgotangco> blingbuntu
[03:50] <Madpilot> hmm... there is no channel #ebuntu on freenode that I can see - not right now, anyway

[03:50] <ogra> bhuvan, btw thats what happens to most people .... 
[03:50] <jsgotangco> anyway
[03:51] <jsgotangco> i'll look for the thread too and react about the docteam link being there
[03:51] <robotgeek> Madpilot: there is
[03:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> there's email about it on -devel and -users mail lists
[03:51] <Madpilot> robotgeek: really? I can't get it listed in my IRC client - odd
[03:52] <jsgotangco> i don't think its registered yet
[03:52] <jsgotangco> wow bad enlgish
[03:52] <jsgotangco> i think its not registered yet
[03:53] <Madpilot> ah, it does exist, but isn't listed - odd
[03:53] <jsgotangco> ok
[03:53] <jsgotangco> so what shall we do
[03:53] <jsgotangco> will I react with a reply to that thread?
[03:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> edit the wiki page to remove the 'docteam will' reference?
[03:54] <jsgotangco> hmmm is that the right thing to do
[03:54] <Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser: how about commenting it out, with another comment that the DocTeam hasn't been contacted?
[03:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot: yes, that's probably the correct way to get the same result
[03:55] <jsgotangco> hmm
[03:55] <jsgotangco> okay
[03:56] <jsgotangco> i'll comment it out and add a comment that contact us about this
[03:56] <jsgotangco> cool?
[03:56] <Kamping_Kaiser> sounds good to me.
[03:56] <jsgotangco> okay
[03:58] <jsgotangco> Hi Manish, I've commented this out because the DocumentationTeam has not been contacted about this. If you have questions or concerns, don't hesitate to contact me at jgotangco@ubuntu.com - Jerome Gotangco
[03:58] <jsgotangco> ok just made a minor edit
[03:58] <robotgeek> or on irc
[03:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> both?
[03:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> nah
[03:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> send him an email if you want to contact him direct
[03:59] <jsgotangco> its ok
[03:59] <jsgotangco> i'll do that
[04:00] <jsgotangco> done
[04:00] <jsgotangco> anythying else?
[04:00] <jjesse> nope
[04:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> do we have any doc templates?
[04:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> or do we just rip the guts out of an existing page and use that ?
[04:01] <jsgotangco> what kind of templates?
[04:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> jsgotangco: basic document layout
[04:01] <jsgotangco> docbook?
[04:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> yeh.
[04:01] <jsgotangco> svn has it
[04:01] <jsgotangco> we've just hit 1 hour
[04:01] <jsgotangco> are we cool now on the meeting?
[04:01] <jjesse> i'm cool
[04:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> yep. 
[04:01] <jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser, i'll guide you later
[04:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> thanks
[04:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> how long are we allowed here? 1 hour only?
[04:03] <jsgotangco> well its ours at this time
[04:03] <jsgotangco> but we don't have anything on the agenda anymore
[04:03] <jsgotangco> its best to move back to -doc
[04:03] <jsgotangco> okay
[04:03] <Kamping_Kaiser> sounds good. see you all there
[04:04] <jsgotangco> next is March 3, 21UTC
[04:04] <jsgotangco> cool?
[04:04] <robotgeek> i'm cool with almost any time, so +1
[04:05] <jsgotangco> christ that 5am on me
[04:05] <Kamping_Kaiser> I'll try and make it
[04:05] <jsgotangco> okay

[04:05] <jsgotangco> cool 21UTC then