[12:04] <Kamion> LaserJock: ok, but I'd like elmo to look at that because I'm not sure what we think about clause 4 in that licence which talks about commercial contributors indemnifying all other contributors against legal damages
[12:04] <Kamion> Seveas: not that I know of - now's not a great time to ask me though, I'm just here to do some cdimage work before going to bed
[12:05] <LaserJock> Kamion: fine, just wasn't sure how to get the ball rolling ;-)
[12:08] <Lathiat> hrm, any reason the installer no longer just goes ahead and starts booting after a timeout?
[12:08] <Seveas> Kamion, ok, I'll poke the 4 of you via e-mail 
[12:13] <Lathiat> hrm, does windows store the system clock in UTC?
[12:13] <Lathiat> bad to reocmend setting the system clock to UTC in the installer as im fairly sure windows doesnt do that, whichl make for some rather confused people as the times flip around?
[12:14] <wasabi_> it's determined if windows exists i believe
[12:14] <Kamion> Lathiat: various people requested me not to, see ubuntu-devel@ archives
[12:15] <Kamion> it's good for the live CD but turns out to be not so good for the install CD
[12:15] <Kamion> yes, clock-setup checks whether MS-DOS/Windows/FreeDOS is installed and defaults to non-UTC if they are
[12:16] <Kamion> if there are other operating systems installed that it's not sure about, it asks you
[12:16] <Lathiat> Kamion: ok, well i have windows and it didnt work then
[12:16] <Lathiat> on ntfs
[12:16] <Lathiat> and i set it to mount
[12:16] <Lathiat> and it suggested UTC
[12:16] <Kamion> if there are no other operating systems installed, it defaults to UTC
[12:16] <Kamion> Lathiat: please file a bug on clock-setup and attach /var/log/installer/syslog
[12:16] <Lathiat> also, whats the logic behind that?
[12:17] <Lathiat> if they install another linux or windows later..
[12:17] <Lathiat> hrm
[12:17] <Kamion> UTC is a LOT easier to deal with for all sorts of reasons
[12:17] <Kamion> there are an amazing number of bugs caused by this braindead history of having the system clock in local time (and thus having to deal with DST)
[12:17] <Lathiat> Kamion: whats the subject on u-d ?
[12:18] <Kamion> sorry, don't remember
[12:18] <Kamion> search for gfxboot I guess
[12:18] <Kamion> or Flight CD <mumble>
[12:18] <Lathiat> Kamion: ah so like your never quite sure if the time is DST or not?
[12:18] <Lathiat> we had a good one here in australia
[12:18] <Lathiat> they extended DST by a week
[12:18] <Lathiat> for the <something> games
[12:18] <StevenK> Commonwealth
[12:19] <Lathiat> i had an email to bur.st support the other day asking us to update our tzdata file so his date was right :P heh
[12:20] <Kamion> yeah, and you don't want that sort of logic having to be in the BIOS
[12:21] <Kamion> Lathiat: http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/is_your_hardware_clock_set_to_gmt-2005-07-25-02-52.html explains some of the pain involved here
[12:23] <Lathiat> cheers
[12:24] <Mithrandir> hi Lathiat 
[12:25] <Kamion> Lathiat: anyway, probably os-prober failed to detect Windows properly on your system or something, hence the request for a bug report so I can see what's going on
[12:25] <Kamion> might be the old bug that os-prober doesn't deal very well with detecting operating systems on filesystems that are mounted
[12:26] <Lathiat> what information do you want?
[12:26] <Lathiat> i guess i'tl be interesting to see if it rocks up in grub
[12:26] <Kamion> 23:16 < Kamion> Lathiat: please file a bug on clock-setup and attach /var/log/installer/syslog
[12:27] <Lathiat> ah, sorry
[12:27] <Lathiat> i assume that will be there after reboot?
[12:27] <Kamion> yeah
[12:27] <Kamion> it's /var/log/syslog before reboot
[12:27] <Kamion> not world-readable after reboot though, you'll need to use root privileges to extract it
[12:28] <Lathiat> bibble?
[12:28] <Kinnison> raw photo manip' software
[12:28] <Kinnison> currently evaluating it
[12:28] <Kinnison> possibly to buy a licence
[12:29] <wasabi_> breezy->dapper upgrade on my mythtv box hosed my initrd
[12:29] <wasabi_> heh
[12:30] <wasabi_> and I can't get the grub console to appear. =/
[12:30] <Kinnison> 19862 dsilvers  16   0  647m 537m 8776 S 73.5 53.6   3:48.02 bibblepro
[12:30] <Kinnison> ouch
[12:30] <Kinnison> gotta give it kudos for using all the ram it can
[12:36] <Lathiat> Kamion: is it interesting that winxp is in the grub menu?
[12:37] <Kamion> Lathiat: somewhat, but that information should be in the syslog too
[12:49] <Lathiat> also, gah at that synaptics bug
[12:54] <sebest> hi lathiat ;)
[12:54] <Kamion> Lathiat: fixed, I think
[12:54] <Kamion> clock-setup.postinst said cat instead of echo - d'oh!
[12:54] <Lathiat> ah
[12:54] <Lathiat> sebest: hey :)
[12:55] <sebest> lathiat: i just tried xgl/compiz on my old p3 and was really surprised!
[12:55] <Lathiat> sebest: yeh Xgl is pretty nuts
[12:55] <Lathiat> thats what you ge tfor using hw accel
[12:55] <sebest> i was surprised that compiz works so well on a 750Mhz and a gforce 4 mx
[12:58] <Kamion> Lathiat: was blindingly obvious once I saw the syslog - thanks for that!
[12:58] <Lathiat> Kamion: cya :)
[12:58] <mpt> fabbione, ping
[01:00] <incinerator> ah, df 4 is out :-)
[01:00] <Kamion> incinerator: please don't rush to download it yet, it's currently just up for the mirrors to grab
[01:01] <incinerator> torrent ok?
[01:01] <Kamion> I'll announce it in the morning
[01:01] <Kamion> I guess
[01:01] <incinerator> ksznom
[01:01] <Kamion> always wise to wait for the release notes to be posted though
[01:02] <Lathiat> lots :)
[01:02] <incinerator> bah
[01:02] <incinerator> i was just looking for the daily dvd but it would not download
[01:03] <incinerator> then i decided to go for df 3 and saw that df 4 was out
[01:03] <incinerator> but thanks
[01:03] <Kamion> heh
[01:03] <Kamion> szvesen
[01:03] <incinerator> i only speak a tiny but magyarul, though
[01:04] <incinerator> ;-)
[01:04] <Kamion> likewise
[01:04] <incinerator> but i recognised the nick *ggg*
[01:06] <Kamion> my nick is not Hungarian *shrug*
[01:06] <Kamion> just a coincidence
[01:06] <Kamion> anyway, really bedtime now
[01:07] <incinerator> hehe
[01:07] <incinerator> Kamion means lorry in Hungarian btw
[01:08] <incinerator> *ggg*
[01:08] <Kamion> yeah, I'm familiar with the meaning in a number of European languages
[01:09] <Lathiat> yugh im having some nasty regressions on my laptop
[01:09] <Lathiat> i cant even stop gdm
[01:09] <Lathiat> the screen freezes up
[01:09] <Lathiat> nor does suspend work
[01:10] <mjg59> Lathiat: What have you done?
[01:10] <Lathiat> mjg59: stock install
[01:10] <Lathiat> on my precision m20
[01:10] <mjg59> Ah, ok
[01:10] <Lathiat> does anyone here have a synaptics touchpad?
[01:10] <Lathiat> like a real one
[01:11] <Lathiat> not an alps
[01:11] <mjg59> Yup
[01:11] <mjg59> Not to hand, though
[01:11] <mjg59> Can check it tomorrow
[01:11] <Lathiat> was gonna say
[01:11] <Lathiat> can you try set the minspeed/maxspeed
[01:11] <Lathiat> to 0.49, 0.63 and tell me how it affects synaptics
[01:11] <Lathiat> does it make it super fast
[01:11] <Lathiat> i'll email it to you?
[01:11] <Lathiat> cus that seems about the right value on alps
[01:11] <mjg59> Ok
[01:11] <mjg59> Yeah, alps was really slow
[01:12] <Lathiat> yeh
[01:12] <Lathiat> its driving me up the wall
[01:12] <Lathiat> i just patched the driver to that and it works nice
[01:12] <Lathiat> want to see what affect it has on synaptics
[01:12] <Lathiat> and if we have to differentiate between the two
[01:12] <Lathiat> mjg59@ubuntu ?
[01:13] <mjg59> @srcf.ucam.org
[01:14] <Lathiat> cheers
[01:14] <Lathiat> im off too, cyas
[01:20] <sebest> mjg59, i submitted a bug (and its fix) about compiz (bug 31929)
[01:20] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31929 in compiz "compiz needs glitz >= 0.5.3 for some nvidia gforce 4 mx " [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31929
[01:33] <Seveas> speaking of compiz, mjg59, I'm about to upload a debdiff to malone that splits out gnome/kde specific files
[01:38] <LaserJock> Seveas: I believe hub is working on that as well
[01:38] <esac> on breezy and dapper , during the install process, i select my wireless card (ath0). the weird part is that it is never able to get a DHCP address, i always have to set it up manually.  once ubuntu is installed, it gets a dhcp addy just fine. is this broken, or something i have to configure on my end ?
[01:41] <LaserJock> esac: you should probably try #ubuntu as this is not a support channel.
[01:46] <sebest> speaking about gnome-window-decorator, it seems that xeyes can make it crash in some conditions
[01:49] <sebest> what is the wnck applet?
[01:51] <Chipzz> Seveas: I just made a couple of my own changes to compiz too... if you want to take a look?
[01:51] <Seveas> Chipzz, no 
[01:52] <Seveas> if you think they are needed in the compiz package: file bug & attach patch
[01:52] <Chipzz> Seveas: inclusion of opacity plugin, and removal of *.la and *.a from the packages
[01:52] <sebest> Chipzz , do you use compiz right now?
[01:52] <Chipzz> yes
[01:53] <sebest> could you try this: for i in `seq 1 20` ; do ( xeyes & ) ; done
[01:53] <sebest> then killall xeyes
[01:53] <sebest> it always produce a crash in gnome-window-decorator for me
[01:53] <sebest> glibc detected *** corrupted double-linked list
[01:54] <sebest> with assertion abou WNCK_IS_CLASS_GROUP
[01:55] <sebest> and also the xeyes don't expose (F12)
[01:55] <Chipzz> yups, lots of stuff crashes when killing xeyes
[01:55] <sebest> yes wnck applet and other things
[01:55] <sebest> it only happens when there is "enought" xeyes for me
[01:55] <sebest> for example 10 is not enought
[01:56] <sebest> 20 is ok
[01:56] <sebest> a problem with a link list
[02:11] <mae> will glitz/xcomposite and all that nice stuff make its way into dapper?
[02:12] <mjg59> It's in dapper
[02:12] <mae> mjg59: but i mean enabled by default with accelerated cards?
[02:12] <mjg59> No
[02:12] <mjg59> It's nowhere near ready
[02:38] <mae> omg
[02:38] <mae> i just got compiz going
[02:38] <mae> this is so wicked
[02:43] <tseng> i think you meant #ubuntu-xgl
[03:13] <zakame> morning all :D
[03:13] <LaserJock> hi zakame 
[03:25] <Kyral> There is seriously an #ubuntu-xgl channel?
[03:35] <sladen> Kyral: it's where all the bling-bling crackheads are
[03:36] <Kyral> sladen: I just tried it because someone sent the email to -devel-announce ;P
[03:36] <Aegir> Mmmmm... crack...
[03:36] <Kyral> Its....interesting
[03:37] <Kyral> until I realized that I couldn't play my anime lol
[04:04] <bmonty> elmo: please sync gausssum from debian unstable
[04:17] <bmonty> elmo: please sync freewheeling from debian unstable, ok to drop ubuntu changes
[04:40] <bmonty> elmo: please sync biococoa.app from debian unstable, ok to drop ubuntu changes
[04:50] <bmonty> elmo: please sync slime from debian unstable
[06:44] <monzie> hi all
[06:45] <monzie> Is there any way to install the Ubuntu 5.10 live cd?
[06:45] <monzie> or should i use GNOPPIX instead?
[06:46] <zakame> hmm, any reason why not install using the Install CD?
[06:46] <monzie> yup, zakame
[06:47] <monzie> I did it at my college demo , installed knoppix onto HD while browsing net and listening to musci
[06:47] <monzie> music
[06:47] <monzie> makes for a great  demo of linux
[06:47] <monzie> any solutions?
[06:57] <zakame> hmm I dunno, anyone care to enlighten?  I hear ubuntu-express should do this one
[07:04] <LaserJock> well, that is certainly the target for dapper, but at this point I don't know how stable/bug free it is
[07:04] <LaserJock> espresso is what it is called, I believe
[07:05] <LaserJock> I think Flight4 will be released soon. It might be usable for that purpose
[07:06] <LaserJock> But I would hate to have you show how cool Ubuntu is and have it eat your hard drive or something so I would take to people who know what there doing, which is not me ;-)
[08:50] <sajid> hi
[08:50] <sajid> any one is here
[08:50] <neoxan> yeeah
[08:50] <sajid> hi dear 
[08:50] <neoxan> hi baby
[08:50] <sajid> hi
[08:50] <neoxan> hi baby
[08:50] <sajid> yem 
[08:50] <sajid> me fine 
[08:50] <sajid> and u
[08:50] <neoxan> :D
[08:51] <neoxan> also
[08:51] <sajid> nice to see u
[08:51] <neoxan> (:
[08:51] <sajid> where from u
[08:51] <neoxan> germany, u?
[08:51] <sajid> ok
[08:51] <sajid> me also
[08:51] <sajid> but know a days not
[08:51] <sajid> know me in pakistan
[08:52] <sajid> but my othere family live in there at Germanyu
[08:52] <neoxan> :)
[08:52] <neoxan> nice =)
[08:52] <sajid> stuttguard
[08:52] <neoxan> stuttgart
[08:52] <neoxan> ^^
[08:52] <neoxan> :D
[08:52] <sajid> me elder brothere lives there
[08:52] <neoxan> hehe
[08:52] <sajid> what hee heee
[08:52] <neoxan> this is the ubuntu developer channel ;)
[08:53] <sajid> channel
[08:53] <neoxan> but i dont care, youre nice ;)
[08:53] <sajid> why
[08:53] <sajid> he are u there
[08:54] <neoxan> what?
[08:54] <sajid>       i mean are u busy
[08:54] <sajid> where  u live in Germanyu
[08:54] <neoxan> in gelsenkirchen
[08:54] <neoxan> nrw
[08:54] <neoxan> near colongne
[08:54] <sajid> ok
[08:55] <sajid> how is stuttguard from there
[08:55] <neoxan> oh, i dont know ;)
[08:55] <neoxan> some kilometers
[08:55] <sajid> ok
[08:55] <neoxan> many^^
[08:55] <sajid> are u Duetch
[08:55] <sajid> or 
[08:56] <neoxan> yeah 
[08:56] <sajid> nice to see u
[08:56] <neoxan> :)
[08:56] <sajid> german people are very nice
[08:56] <sajid> i like them
[08:56] <neoxan> nah, not all
[08:56] <neoxan> like every people
[08:56] <sajid> they are dont tell lie
[08:56] <neoxan> lol
[08:57] <sajid> they are handsome
[08:57] <neoxan> wtf ;)
[08:57] <sajid> and love each othere
[08:57] <sajid>  as i know
[08:57] <neoxan> nah, i dont
[08:57] <neoxan> im not proud of germany
[08:57] <sajid> what do u think about my veiws
[08:57] <sajid> ok
[08:58] <sajid>  thats good that you are not proud
[08:58] <neoxan> veiws?
[08:58] <sajid> remarks
[08:58] <neoxan> dunno what that means, sorry :)
[08:58] <sajid> ok
[08:58] <sajid>  leave it
[08:58] <sajid> what is Fenchel tea
[08:59] <neoxan> fennel tea
[08:59] <sajid> i think it is for babies
[08:59] <neoxan> i dunno, could be
[09:00] <sajid> ok
[09:00] <sajid> what is the meanig of bekommlich
[09:01] <neoxan> digestible
[09:01] <sajid> ok
[09:02] <neoxan> gonna watch a movie now :)
[09:02] <neoxan> was a nice talk with you
[09:02] <sajid> because some food has sent to me from my brother for baby
[09:02] <neoxan> cya
[09:02] <sajid> so i have discusing u
[09:03] <sajid>  ok  what is Wirkstoff
[09:03] <neoxan> agent
[09:03] <sajid> i think i have boring you
[09:03] <neoxan> no :)
[09:03] <neoxan> its ok
[09:04] <neoxan> nothing to do anyway ;)
[09:04] <sajid> nive to see u 
[09:04] <sajid> what do u do
[09:04] <neoxan> compiling stuff
[09:04] <sajid> clear it
[09:05] <sajid> i dont no
[09:05] <sajid>  hi
[09:05] <sajid> are u busy
[09:05] <neoxan> no :)
[09:05] <sajid> ok
[09:05] <sajid>  i wana add u in messenger list
[09:06] <neoxan> what messanger?
[09:06] <sajid> if u like
[09:06] <sajid> chat list
[09:06] <neoxan> yeah, what kind of?
[09:06] <sajid> for future chating
[09:06] <neoxan> jabber, icq, msn?
[09:06] <sajid> teel me your chat id
[09:06] <sajid> yahoo
[09:07] <sajid> if so
[09:07] <neoxan> i dont have yahoo messanger :(
[09:07] <sajid> ok
[09:07] <sajid> tell me icq and msn
[09:07] <neoxan> 275648273
[09:07] <neoxan> icq
[09:08] <sajid> ok
[09:08] <sajid> send me your telephone no
[09:08] <neoxan> telephone? lol
[09:08] <neoxan> why?
[09:08] <sajid> i wil tell me brother who 
[09:08] <sajid> will contact with u
[09:09] <sajid> just a friend
[09:09] <neoxan> lol, no, sorry
[09:09] <sajid> who live there
[09:09] <neoxan> i dont give my telefone number to anyone on the net ;)
[09:09] <sajid> ok
[09:09] <sajid> but like to
[09:09] <neoxan> hehe
[09:10] <neoxan> how old are you? :-)
[09:10] <sajid> ok
[09:10] <sajid> 
[09:10] <Mithrandir> please take this discussion elsewhere, it's not related to Ubuntu development
[09:10] <neoxan> i thought so Mithrandir
[09:10] <neoxan> ;)
[09:10] <sajid> ok tel me ab+ut Ubuntu
[09:10] <Mithrandir> sajid: that's also offtopic for #ubuntu-devel; please ask user support questions in #ubuntu.
[09:11] <TheMuso> /c/
[09:11] <sajid> ok
[09:15] <sajid> hi
[09:21] <neoxan> :(
[09:21] <neoxan> this guy was so coo
[09:21] <neoxan> l
[09:21] <neoxan> lol
[09:43] <infinity> Kamion / mdz / elmo: Can someone NEW the nm-applet binary (from the network-manager source) s'il vous plait?
[09:59] <Kamion> nm-applet should surely replace network-manager
[09:59] <Kamion> (from before it was split out)
[10:00] <Kamion> damn, missed the publisher
[10:19] <infinity> Does it not?
[10:20] <mae>  i have a bug to report but i am unsure how to use malone, can someone walk me through it?
[10:20] <Kamion> infinity: nope, filed a bug
[10:20] <infinity> I'll just fix it and upload right now.
[10:20] <infinity> Bug #?
[10:21] <Kamion> mae: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug, enter affected package name, one-line summary of bug, longer description of bug
[10:21] <Kamion> infinity: 31961
[10:21] <Kamion> Ubugtu: bug 31961
[10:21] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31961 in network-manager "nm-applet should Replace network-manager from before package split" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31961
[10:27] <Kamion> (topicdiff: flight-4 done)
[10:28] <Kamion> release announcement should be in the ubuntu-announce@ moderation queue RSN
[10:28] <Kamion> jdub: if you could wave it through quickly, I'd be grateful
[10:30] <jdub> Kamion: ok
[10:30] <Kamion> ta
[10:30] <Kamion> ha, I knew doing this in the early morning UTC was a good plan
[10:30] <jdub> Kamion: i'm in spain ;-)
[10:31] <Kamion> oh well ;)
[10:36] <Lathiat> mjg59: why do we have both g-p-m and the battery applet?
[10:37] <Lathiat> mjg59: also "when laptop lid is cosed: suspend" doesnt seem to work, and it does detect lid events on this, and blanks the screen
[10:38] <Lathiat> mjg59: known?
[10:39] <Kamion> ok folks, that's two out of two NEW packages I've looked at this morning that don't use Replaces properly
[10:40] <Kamion> simple rule of thumb: when you move a file from package a to package b, b should Replaces: a (<< version-where-the-file-was-removed-from-a)
[10:40] <Kamion> remember this every time you move a file and a class of annoying bugs goes away
[10:46] <infinity> Kamion: Given that n-m was done by keybuk, I can only assume he "just forgot"... I'd hate to think the (former) dpkg maintainer doesn't how how to use "Reaplces" properly. :)
[10:47] <j^> would be nice if the olpc-sdk would be packaged for ubuntu (http://people.redhat.com/berrange/olpc/sdk/ | http://people.redhat.com/berrange/olpc/sdk/SRPMS/)
[10:50] <Kamion> infinity: yeah. doesn't apply to compiz though ...
[10:50] <fabbione> hey guys
[10:52] <Mithrandir> Kamion: unless you depend on a new enough version of package a, though.
[10:53] <fabbione> hey jdub
[10:54] <jdub> yo!
[10:57] <infinity> Mithrandir: That would work with nm-applet/network-manager, except the dependency wasn't made versioned.
[10:58] <Mithrandir> infinity: then you lose, yes.
[10:59] <infinity> s/you lose/Keybuk loses/ ;)
[10:59] <Mithrandir> well, true.
[11:01] <TheMuso> c
[11:53] <Mithrandir> infinity: can we please get rid of the silly "thunderbird profile manager" from the menu? it's annoying and I hit that instead of tbird half the time.
[11:54] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: switch to mutt :P
[11:54] <mdke> it's about the most inconsistent menu entry with MenusRevisited
[11:56] <infinity> Mithrandir: Yeah, I need to make it visible in my menu again as a reminder to remove it.
[12:07] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: mutt sucks.
[12:07] <pitti> Kamion: congrats for flight 4!
[12:38] <aquarius> Does Ubuntu have something like dehs.alioth.debian.org where I can get watch files for packages without downloading every package?
[01:01] <Treenaks> aquarius: uh...
[01:01] <Treenaks> aquarius: I don't know :)
[01:02] <Treenaks> aquarius: there's packages.ubuntu.com...
[01:06] <aquarius> packages.ubuntu.com doesn't list watch files as far as I can tell; it does list copyright files, which I also need and which I intend to use it for :)
[02:09] <mdke> so are mounted drives going to stay off the desktop from now on?
[02:10] <jsgotangco> how are we going to unmount them?
[02:10] <lmanul> There's a bug about this
[02:10] <lmanul> I'm sure this was really a decision
[02:10] <mdke> jsgotangco's question is the key one
[02:11] <mdke> you can't expect users to go to Computer every time they want to take out a pen drive
[02:11] <jsgotangco> unless it automagically unmounts when something is removed (ie, a USB)
[02:11] <mdke> i don't think that is possible, is it? you have to unmount if before removing it
[02:12] <dholbach> not necessarily, syncing is more important than unmounting before removal :)
[02:12] <jsgotangco> yes since removing is a physical action that the computer will only be aware of after it is done
[02:13] <lmanul> malon bug 28991
[02:13] <Ubugtu> malone bug 28991 in nautilus "drives icons on the desktop for dapper?" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28991
[02:13] <mdke> but I was always told I was risking data loss by removing drives without unmounting them
[02:13] <mdke> thanks lmanul 
[02:13] <jsgotangco> dholbach, so its safe to remove? even windows *warns* you not to do that without unmounting
[02:14] <dholbach> if you run sync(1) before, it relatively is
[02:14] <dholbach> I was a bit shocked, when I saw mvo doing this the first time :)
[02:14] <jsgotangco> so how will a user do it?
[02:15] <dholbach> it's better for them to unmount, clearly
[02:16] <mdke> dholbach, so do you know if the change was intentional or not?
[02:16] <jdub> jsgotangco: with sync (and preferably flush in future), it's safe to pull
[02:17] <dholbach> mdke: I'm afraid, I don't know.
[02:17] <mdke> ok
[02:18] <jsgotangco> ahh
[02:18] <jsgotangco> ok so what's the deal with Ebuntu? =)
[02:19] <mdke> jsgotangco, it is a derivative based on e17, i think.
[02:21] <dholbach> If they don't get their stuff in the archive, they won't be a 'official sister project' - it won't happen for Dapper, I pretty much guess.
[02:21] <jsgotangco> dholbach, ok so i saw his blog today
[02:22] <mdke> i don't think e17 is stable yet, is it?
[02:22] <dholbach> I think, it's a CVS version
[02:22] <dholbach> jsgotangco: what does it say?
[02:22] <jsgotangco> 2) SphinxLinux has now been renamed Ebuntu, and will now be a derivative of Ubuntu Linux. It is expected to get official recognition, infrastructure and monetary support from Ubuntu. Have a look at it's wiki page for all the details.
[02:22] <mdke> pretty unlikely to get in the archive then
[02:22] <jsgotangco> 3) I am now an official developer for Canonical , the company behind Ubuntu. I dont get paid (it's open source honey) but i do get my own page at Launchpad  (Launchpad is where all Ubuntu development happens)
[02:22] <mdke> odd chap
[02:23] <jsgotangco> 1) I became a member of the GNOME Ubuntu team . There are only 14 such people in the world.
[02:23] <jsgotangco> I basically get to decide (along with the others) what makes and does not make it to GNOME for their next release
[02:23] <tseng> hey cool, i have a launchpad page too
[02:23] <dholbach> It's nice he gets excited about Ubuntu development like that.
[02:24] <jsgotangco> i dunno he probably was one of those in the audience when sabdfl was in bangalore
[02:24] <Mithrandir> I don't know of any promises of monetary support, though.
[02:25] <dholbach> he's monzie on irc, he was hanging around in #ubuntu-motu too
[02:29] <jsgotangco> Mithrandir, i dunno, when you get to see his dad though, you might consider it
[02:29] <Mithrandir> jsgotangco: how so?
[02:30] <jsgotangco> http://www.flickr.com/photos/manish_chaks/100091144/
[03:14] <mjg59> Kamion: Ok to break UVF for glitz? (Needed to make Xgl work on a pile of nvidia and ATI stuff, nothing in the archive rdepends on it)
[03:16] <ivoks> same question for ganglia
[03:16] <ivoks> it seems that ganglia in universe is very outdated :/
[03:17] <tseng> ivoks: universe uvf requests go to ubuntu-motu list
[03:17] <ivoks> tseng: i know :)
[03:17] <ivoks> tseng: thanks for reminding me
[03:17] <tseng> ivoks: nice try
[03:23] <zakame> ooh beowulf stuff
[03:26] <sivang> mjg59: can we make a package with some default stuff like http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=131253 instructs, that is modify gdm, add teh correct plugin loading order to gconf etc.., making a no hacking at all deb
[03:26] <mjg59> sivang: Nope
[03:27] <mjg59> Packages shouldn't screw with configuration belonging to other packages
[03:27] <mjg59> The gconf thing /should/ be simple, since it's just a gconf schema
[03:27] <mjg59> Except the gconf code in compiz is mad
[03:27] <sivang> mjg59: I see
[03:31] <sivang> mjg59: indeed those configuration changes are very simple, even for the inexperienced, so guess they could stay until more stable support is put into xgl first.
[03:54] <xhaker> hi all
[03:55] <xhaker> /usr/sbin is not in an user's PATH in dapper?
[03:58] <Spastjeh> why should a sysadmin path be in a normal user path?
[03:59] <Spastjeh> ok nm... i'm new to ubuntu :p
[04:06] <Kyral> xhaker: What are you talking about, I just echo'd my $PATH and /usr/sbin is there
[04:06] <xhaker> xhaker@dev:~$ echo $PATH
[04:07] <xhaker> ... /bin:/usr/bin
[04:07] <xhaker> not sbin
[04:07] <Kyral> at all?
[04:07] <xhaker> clean install dapper.. maybe 1 day before flight 4
[04:08] <xhaker> before this clean install i had sbin in the path and i was using dapper too
[04:08] <Kyral> I have /usr/local/sbin/:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games/games
[04:08] <xhaker> wow :S
[04:08] <xhaker> Kyral: new install?
[04:08] <Kyral> I dunno I'm running on my Dist-Upgraded install from Breezy back in November ;P
[04:09] <Kyral> Are you the "priveliged" user?
[04:09] <Kyral> (ie, a user that can Sudo)
[04:09] <xhaker> yes i can
[04:09] <xhaker> sudo has sbin in the path
[04:10] <Kyral> Dunno
[04:10] <Kyral> maybe its a new security feature?
[04:11] <xhaker> Kyral: so i thought
[04:11] <xhaker> but i wanted somekind of explanation
[04:11] <Kyral> I dunno, I haven't heard anything about it
[04:11] <Kyral> then again I have been very busy with school
[04:11] <xhaker> mt path is very very different than yours :P
[04:29] <BenC> is there a way to make the desktop cd recording software ignore the data I am trying to burn?
[04:29] <BenC> It doesn't like the hd image I am trying to burn
[05:11] <siretart> elmo: please sync 6.4-2.1 from unstable. thanks
[05:11] <Mithrandir> siretart: it might help if you include a package name
[05:11] <Mithrandir> rather than just a version.
[05:11] <siretart> elmo: please sync kdrill_6.4-2.1 from unstable. thanks
[05:12] <siretart> Mithrandir: argl. right. bad copy'n paste
[05:18] <slomo> siretart: better write him a mail
[05:19] <siretart> slomo: I have a quite long list with open merges. I added it to my list, so that I don't miss it at my next batch request
[05:30] <lucas> siretart: have you got some of your syncs done recently (< 2 weeks) ?
[05:30] <slomo> lucas: nope... almost no syncs were done in the last 3 weeks
[05:31] <lucas> ok
[05:44] <Kamion> xhaker: that was a bug, since fixed in the installer
[05:44] <Kamion> xhaker: to fix it on your system, run: sudo /var/lib/dpkg/info/libpam-modules.postinst configure ''
[05:44] <Kamion> mjg59: yes, sounds fine
[05:45] <Kamion> 09:52 < Mithrandir> Kamion: unless you depend on a new enough version of package a, though.
[05:45] <Kamion> Mithrandir: you'd need to pre-depend, since file overwrites are checked at unpack time, not configure time
[05:46] <Mithrandir> true
[06:04] <mdke> Kamion, I played around a little with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiLicensing/Email, and I'm keen to move along with it if possible. But obviously some of the CC need to look at the wording before we look at sending it.
[06:05] <mdke> I don't know when the next meeting is, it could be done then, I suppose
[06:56] <Treenaks> Kamion: Flight 4 doesn't boot, it tells me it can't find /install/initrd.g (without the z)
[06:57] <HiddenWolf> \o/
[06:57] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: ?
[07:03] <jon_k> i've found a kernel update that has a description of "MOMMY MOMMY! Soyuz eated my previous upload!! MOMMYYYYY!!!!!"
[07:03] <jon_k> any idea if this is a compromise?
[07:04] <HiddenWolf> jon_k: no, it isn't.
[07:04] <jon_k> what is it?
[07:04] <HiddenWolf> jon_k: it was misplaced humor on the developer's part
[07:04] <jon_k> hm, i see
[07:04] <HiddenWolf> jon_k: a previous upload failed, so he commented on it in his new upload.
[07:05] <mdke> misplaced?
[07:05] <jon_k> well, there's nothing wrong with joking, but perhaps people should be serious when it concerns kernel updates
[07:05] <mdke> is that in breezy?
[07:05] <HiddenWolf> mdke: it's caused a LOAD of worry, discussion and filed bugs.
[07:06] <mdke> is that in breezy?
[07:06] <Treenaks> mdke: yes
[07:06] <mdke> gosh
[07:07] <jon_k> never seen such joking for kernel changelogs before
[07:07] <jon_k> sounds like someone put some nasty stuff in a new kernel and uploaded it, heh
[07:07] <Treenaks> jon_k: you've never run a development release ;)
[07:07] <HiddenWolf> jon_k: ubuntu recently switched to a new buildd system
[07:08] <HiddenWolf> jon_k: I guess the update got lost due to some bug and he had to re-upload
[07:08] <HiddenWolf> that's all that happened.
[07:08] <jon_k> ah, so we can expect more funny stuff too?
[07:08] <HiddenWolf> I'd hope not.
[07:08] <HiddenWolf> Those bugs will get fixed, and that humor has no place in a -security upload. at least in my humble opinion.
[07:09] <jon_k> heh
[07:10] <jon_k> well Treenaks seems to have suggested it's commonplace with his comment
[07:10] <jon_k> heh
[07:10] <HiddenWolf> jon_k: in development versions, yeah
[07:10] <Treenaks> jon_k: in the development release, people tend to put in all kinds of weird statements in the changelogs
[07:10] <Treenaks> jon_k: but you have to be careful with security uploads :)
[07:13] <HiddenWolf> this is the upload, right? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2006-January/000279.html
[07:13] <HiddenWolf> Why aren't they on -changes?
[07:17] <dholbach> HiddenWolf: to me this seems to be the announce, not the upload
[07:17] <HiddenWolf> I can't find the actual upload
[07:17] <HiddenWolf> upload / changelog
[07:17] <HiddenWolf> and the announce I posted is the latest linux vunerability posted to the list
[07:18] <^rob> hey all, I saw the screenshots posted up for UbuntuExpress and noticed that hostname is present when it is not on the mockups, was this intentional?
[07:23] <maswan> ooh, some demand for flight-4
[07:23] <maswan> Kamion: root@tutankhamon[pts/0] :~# currenthttpxfers | grep -c flight-4
[07:23] <maswan> Kamion: 34
[07:24] <maswan> Kamion: then multiply by four for our four frontends and you have approximately the number of current downloads
[07:27] <siretart> gnarf. anyone knows a lazy mirror for jigdo'ing flight4?
[07:27] <siretart> I'm only missing a few files related to ltsp and xserver :(
[07:29] <sivang> rehi all
[07:31] <Treenaks> Nobody else is having problems booting Flight 4?
[07:38] <siretart> Treenaks: I just booted flight4 on x86. the machine showed me bootsplash and all (gnome didn't start because it was just a 64mb machine)
[07:39] <Treenaks> siretart: hm.. when I try to start, I get an error about '/install/initrd.g' not being available
[07:39] <Treenaks> siretart: (note: not .gz)
[07:47] <^rob> ok hostname in ubuntu express is filed at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-express/+bug/32010
[07:47] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32010 in ubuntu-express "should not contain hostname field" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[08:08] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: what arch?
[08:09] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: i386
[08:09] <Treenaks> I'm re-burning now (3rd time)
[08:20] <kbrooks> does anyone here know what dapper+1 will have
[08:21] <Treenaks> lots of crack :)
[08:21] <kbrooks> 6.04, 7.10
[08:21] <kbrooks> no. wait.
[08:21] <Mithrandir> 6.10, rather
[08:21] <kbrooks> 6.10, 7.04
[08:21] <kbrooks> yes thank you very much
[08:28] <ploum> kbrooks: yes : GNOME 2.16
[08:28] <Treenaks> ploum: you win :)
[08:29] <kbrooks> ploum, i wonder when 3.0 will come out
[08:29] <ploum> kbrooks: after 2.98
[08:29] <ploum> of course
[08:30] <ploum> then it will be april 2047
[08:30] <ploum> But it will rocks..
[08:31] <lemsto> is there a way in gnome to asign an application to a desktop? for example, all new firefox windows will be launched in desktop 3...
[08:31] <lemsto> if its not possible, thats an idea of new feature :p
[08:31] <ploum> lemsto: I've already such a feature request
[08:32] <lemsto> ploum, so isn't possible yet?
[08:32] <ploum> Someone on pgo talked about a program that does this work
[08:32] <winkle> metacity doesn't support it, other wms does...
[08:32] <ploum> I'm not sure
[08:32] <winkle> i doubt metacity will target such a feature..
[08:33] <lemsto> have you a link about any project for gnome?
[08:33] <ploum> lemsto: I'm searching  (don't you see the little magnifier animation ? ;-) )
[08:34] <lemsto> hehehe
[08:34] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: (burn #3, md5sum match, no boot: 'Could not find ramdisk image /install/initrd.g')
[08:34] <ploum> lemsto: try this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=75749  I'm not sure it's what you want but it's the only thing like this I know
[08:35] <lemsto> ploum, ok! thank u
[08:35] <jdub> lemsto: look into devilspie
[08:35] <aquarius> lemsto: devilspie will do that sort of thing.
[08:35] <aquarius> oh, that'll teach me to pay more attention
[08:36] <lemsto> thanks all
[08:36] <ploum> it was indeed devil's pie I was talking about
[08:38] <ploum> jdub: is it possible to already have an ubuntu-be mailing list ?
[08:38] <Treenaks> ploum: when's your talk again? and are -nl people allowed in? :P
[08:39] <ploum> Treenaks: of course !
[08:39] <ploum> I will be very pleased to meet other ubuntu people !
[08:39] <ploum> I will even try to speak in dutch
[08:39] <ploum> (so it can be funny)
[08:40] <ploum> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam : Sat 25 feb at 14h, Room H3227 or H3228 
[08:41] <Treenaks> http://webdemo.ns.nl/e2000.html :)
[08:43] <ploum> Treenaks: will you make some more moviegotchi at FOSDEM ?
[08:44] <Treenaks> ploum: good idea!
[08:44] <Treenaks> ploum: I still need to find a place to sleep though :(
[08:45] <ploum> Treenaks: ok, I will look
[08:46] <ploum> Maybe you can sleep in my "kot"
[08:46] <Chipzz> ploum: you're belgian too? :)
[08:47] <ploum> Chipzz: yes
[08:47] <ploum> so are you ?
[08:47] <ploum> Chipzz: please read  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam :-)
[08:47] <ploum> I'm from Louvain-la-Neuve
[08:48] <Chipzz> ploum: I'll see if I can make the meeting, but I'll be running around with a "staff" tshirt ;)
[08:48] <ploum> I see
[08:49] <Chipzz> network and stuff :P
[08:49] <jdub> ploum: don't worry, i'll blindfold and steal him :)
[08:50] <Chipzz> hi jdub :)
[08:51] <ploum> Chipzz: I will have a tshirt with "I was your annoying interviewer !"
[08:51] <ploum> :-D
[08:51] <Chipzz> ploum: *grin* :)
[08:55] <ploum> jdub: Thank you for coming. I didn't tell it to the others. Can you make an apparition with smoke, light and all that sort of things ?
[08:56] <ploum> with a voice coming from the grave telling : "and now ladies and gentlemen, the fearless, the hairless, the sleepless MARK SHUTTLEWORTH" 
[08:56] <ploum> uh..
[08:56] <ploum> no
[08:56] <ploum> Jeff Waugh
[08:56] <ploum> that's it !
[08:56] <jdub> i will try to eat something that makes me gassy that day
[08:59] <Kamion> Treenaks: sorry, absolutely no idea why that might be happening
[09:00] <Treenaks> Kamion: hmm..
[09:01] <Treenaks> Kamion: could it be a different manifestation of the bug where the 'boot from hard-disk' disk wasn't detected correctly?
[09:02] <sebest> ploum: hello, any update on bug 6260 ?
[09:02] <Ubugtu> malone bug 6260 in network-manager "network-manager breaks avahi" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6260
[09:02] <Kamion> Treenaks: can't imagine how
[09:02] <Kamion> Treenaks: have you tried editing the command line to see what it looks like?
[09:03] <Treenaks> Kamion: yes (F6, right?)
[09:03] <Treenaks> Kamion: that looks OK
[09:03] <ploum> sebest: indeed, it's avahi 0.6.7
[09:04] <sebest> ploum: and is it with wifi?
[09:04] <ploum> yes
[09:04] <sebest> only?
[09:04] <ploum> yes, wifi only
[09:04] <sebest> just to introduce myself, i'm an avahi dev, so i'd like to fix this issue
[09:05] <ploum> Oh, I understand :-)
[09:05] <sebest> so i'm trying to track the issue, because i'm als using nm (with ipw2100) and i can't reproduce this issue :)
[09:06] <sebest> so i'm trying to find if it's related to a driver or a bug in avahi / nm
[09:06] <Kamion> Treenaks: er, whatever key is listed for "Other Options", I think it's F5
[09:06] <Kamion> Treenaks: and what if you edit that to add an extra random character to the end of the initrd= argument?
[09:06] <sebest> ploum: does avahi crash or just stop "announcing/browsing" ?
[09:06] <Treenaks> Kamion: trying, brb 
[09:07] <sebest> ploum: it would be great, if you could run avahi-daemon in debug mode in a console, just issue "sudo avahi-daemon --debug". And some infos about your setup (driver/cards) and how you can reproduce it
[09:07] <ploum> sebest: how can I test this optimally ?
[09:09] <ploum> sebest: I will try
[09:09] <ploum> but I must reinstall NM
[09:09] <sebest> ploum: with the cli tool avahi-browse -a you can test that avahi-daemon is browsing
[09:09] <sebest> avahi-publish allows you to publish some test services
[09:10] <ploum> I don't have avahi-browse nor publish
[09:10] <ploum> (in fact I'm a total newbie in avahi)
[09:10] <ploum> hm.. NM is not working correctly
[09:11] <ploum> apt-get install avahi-utils
[09:11] <Treenaks> Kamion: no luck, when changing that
[09:11] <Treenaks> Kamion: Server mode boots correctly though (haven't tried OEM)
[09:12] <sebest> ploum: yes
[09:13] <sebest> ploum: i'll explain you , it's quite easy
[09:13] <sebest> in one terminal you run "avahi-browse -a", it will discover all announced services on your lan
[09:14] <ploum> sebest: done
[09:14] <ploum> With NM working !
[09:14] <sebest> do you see any service?
[09:14] <ploum> I see :
[09:14] <ploum>  avahi-browse -a
[09:14] <ploum> + ath0 IPv4 mars [00:11:95:91:97:0d]                       Workstation          local
[09:15] <sebest>  avahi-publish-service "test service" _test._tcp 1
[09:15] <ploum> sebest: it appears !
[09:15] <sebest> this command will publish a fake service
[09:15] <sebest> if you ctrl+c avahi-publish-service, it should dissapear
[09:15] <sebest> in avahi-browse
[09:16] <ploum> yes, I see a "-"
[09:16] <Treenaks> Kamion: on what should I file the bug (so you can look at it when it's not Sunday evening ;)
[09:16] <sebest> from this point it seems that everything is working properly
[09:16] <ploum> so I cannnot confirm the bug anymore, I'm sorry
[09:16] <sebest> maybe you could try switching to wired
[09:16] <ploum> Ihave confirmed because the avahi-discover window was empty
[09:16] <ploum> sebest: I don't have wired connection
[09:16] <ploum> (too far)
[09:17] <sebest> you could just cut the wifi connection
[09:17] <sebest> and put it back
[09:17] <ploum> with NM ?
[09:17] <sebest> yes for example
[09:17] <Treenaks> ploum: just press the 'wifi kill switch' on your machine
[09:17] <sebest> avahi-browse will display that services dissappear
[09:17] <sebest> and they should reappear on reconnection automatically
[09:17] <ploum> I don't have one ;-) I'm on a desktop, not a laptop
[09:18] <sebest> avahi-daemon, uses netlink to notice when an iface goes up or down
[09:19] <sebest> ploum: nm dosn't allow to stop the wifi connection?
[09:19] <ploum> sebest: I understand the thing
[09:19] <ploum> sadly, it works
[09:19] <ploum> (absurd humor ;-) )
[09:19] <sebest> sadly? :)
[09:20] <Chipzz> sebest: what package is actually responsible for seeing the list of available services in nautilus?
[09:20] <ploum> sebest: I killed NM then restarted it
[09:20] <ploum> all is working as expected
[09:20] <sebest> Chipzz gnome-vfs i think
[09:20] <ploum> I think my previous problem was due to NM and iface working at the same time on the same interface
[09:20] <ploum> but NM was upgraded
[09:20] <Chipzz> sebest: I didn't see a service published on another box before, but after installing avahi-utils I can see it
[09:20] <ploum> and only work with interfaces not used by iface
[09:21] <Chipzz> sebest: well, no, because without avahi-daemon avahi-utils libavahi-core3 libdaemon0 I don't see it
[09:21] <Chipzz> sebest: I'm guessing at least one of these packages is needed on the client side?
[09:21] <sebest> Chipzz: you need avhai-daemon, libavahi-cores3 and libdaemon0
[09:21] <sebest> avahi-utils are optionnal cli tools
[09:22] <sebest> Chipzz yes, you need the client libs and the avahi-daemon
[09:22] <Chipzz> sebest: aha :)
[09:22] <sebest> gnome-vfs use the  libavahi
[09:22] <sebest> when available :)
[09:23] <sebest> Chipzz, you can use gnome-user-share it uses avahi to publish it's webdav share
[09:23] <sebest> its
[09:23] <ploum> the bug that makes me mad about NM : http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331529
[09:23] <Ubugtu> gnome2 bug 331529 in Default "Unlocking gnome-keyring must no be needed at each connection" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]  
[09:23] <Chipzz> sebest: nah nevermind, I'm not a newbie :P
[09:24] <sebest> ploum: i'll close the bug 6260
[09:24] <Ubugtu> malone bug 6260 in network-manager "network-manager breaks avahi" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6260
[09:24] <Chipzz> sebest: I publish sftp from my storage box
[09:24] <ploum> sebest: I commented on it
[09:24] <sebest> ploum : great
[09:24] <ploum> maybe the initial reporter has still the bug ?
[09:25] <ploum> I never understanded the "Preferences > Personnal File Sharing" what will be shared ?
[09:25] <sebest> ploum: i don't think so, because we closed a bug in 0.6.6 really similar to the issue you and he reported
[09:25] <sebest> ploum: in create a folder "Public" in the home
[09:25] <sebest> and this folder is shared using webdav and announced on the lan using avahi
[09:26] <Treenaks> sebest: wow, which packages do I need for that?
[09:28] <sebest> Treenaks, gnome-user-share
[09:28] <sebest> it's from alexander larsson
[09:29] <ploum> sebest: and how can someone access it ?
[09:31] <sebest> ploum, using nautilus
[09:31] <sebest> nautilus, will discover and display it in network places
[09:31] <ploum> sebest: that's cool ! I will try to make it working :-)
[09:31] <ploum> thanks
[09:31] <sebest> i think that mac os x will also see it
[09:32] <Treenaks> sebest: _wow_ :)
[09:34] <ploum> go to lunch !
[09:34] <ploum> goodbye
[09:34] <sebest> ploum: bye ;)
[09:34] <ploum> see you saturday :-)
[09:34] <sebest> Treenaks, i just tested, MacOSX see the share
[09:35] <Kamion> Treenaks: gfxboot will do for starters
[09:35] <Treenaks> Kamion: OK, thanks
[09:46] <de_wizze> hello devs, I had an idea and wanted to verify the feasability
[09:48] <de_wizze> with the current operation of the sound device in *nix OSes it operates on a first come first serve basis
[09:48] <Treenaks> have you looked at the 'default sound device' dialog in dapper? :)
[09:49] <de_wizze> no not recently I haven't had it installed yet .. why is it different?
[09:49] <Treenaks> you can select the 'default' sound device in there now
[09:49] <Treenaks> and I don;t know for sure, but I think it does stuff with ~/.asoundrc or something (pitti?)
[09:51] <de_wizze> but what I was saying is a bit different .. is it or could it possible to have the functionality that esd and arts, etc. moved into the kernel space
[09:52] <de_wizze> mainly the ability to spawn threads for each open() done on /dev/dsp
[09:52] <ploum> de_wizze: in an ideal world, this functionnality would be in the kernel
[09:52] <ploum> that's the goal of dmis AFAIK
[09:53] <de_wizze> efectively removing th concept of dead locks ... right?
[09:53] <ploum> but if you can convince kernel developpers, I will buy you a lot of beers ;-)
[09:53] <Treenaks> dmix
[09:53] <ploum> indeed, dmix
[09:53] <de_wizze> whats their apprehension ?
[09:53] <Treenaks> de_wizze: dmix is user-space
[09:54] <Treenaks> de_wizze: as long as you don't use OSS, it Just Works already
[09:54] <ploum> Treenaks: but the naughty bit is that some apps use OSS
[09:54] <ploum> Flash for example
[09:54] <ploum> and that sucks
[09:54] <ploum> and ALSA drivers or often very buggy
[09:54] <Treenaks> ploum: Then those apps need fixing, not the kernel or ALSA or whatever
[09:55] <Treenaks> ploum: they are? file bugs! :)
[09:55] <ploum> They are filled ;-)
[09:55] <de_wizze> yeah ... so alsa does provide that capability ... it just a matter of uptake then ?
[09:55] <Treenaks> de_wizze: yeah
[09:55] <Treenaks> basically
[09:55] <ploum> de_wizze: yes
[09:55] <de_wizze> and I guess  upkeep as you pointed out
[09:56] <ploum> but things are really better now than 2 years agor
[09:56] <ploum> ago
[09:56] <ploum> really
[09:56] <de_wizze> yeah I know ...
[09:56] <de_wizze> I was just wondering why those last few(or not so few) sets of apps still had the same problem 
[09:57] <de_wizze> tying up the sound device
[09:57] <ploum> de_wizze: flash because it's proprietary software
[09:57] <de_wizze> so true ...
[09:58] <de_wizze> but at lease in the other aspects where there aren't those barriers it good to know that progress is being made 
[09:59] <de_wizze> keep up the good work :)
[10:10] <shaya> at-spi seems really messed up
[10:10] <shaya> causes my dapper gnome desktop to misbehave badly
[10:12] <dholbach> shaya: What happens?
[10:13] <shaya> 1) w/ cvs gaim it causes a libc double free error whenever I change away messages
[10:13] <shaya> 2) w/ gnome terminal in dapper, it basically causes any "new" tabs opened in gnome-termlnal to hang
[10:13] <shaya> those are 2 things that I've isolated to at-spi package being installed
[10:14] <dholbach> shaya: did you file bugs?
[10:14] <shaya> just filed bug against #1
[10:14] <dholbach> shaya: file one for the second please too
[10:14] <shaya> bug 32029
[10:14] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32029 in at-spi "double free error when at-spi is installed" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32029
[10:14] <shaya> hmm
[10:14] <shaya> :)
[10:15] <shaya> didn't know about that bot
[10:17] <shaya> and now there's a new bug
[10:17] <shaya> bug 32036
[10:17] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32036 in at-spi "causes new tabs in gnome-terminal to hang" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32036
[10:17] <shaya> hmm, bugs are filed rapidly
[10:18] <shaya> 6 bugs filed b/w mine
[10:18] <dholbach> shaya: is that a complete back trace? what did you trace? could you install back traces?
[10:18] <shaya> dholbach: no
[10:18] <shaya> I couldn't redo it
[10:19] <dholbach> shaya: it isn't reproducible?
[10:19] <shaya> gdb kept on failing when I tried to redo the baktrace
[10:19] <shaya> no
[10:19] <shaya> the bug is
[10:19] <shaya> gdb'ing fails
[10:19] <dholbach> hum
[10:19] <shaya> the bug is very reproducable
[10:19] <dholbach> how does it fail?
[10:19] <shaya> "can't attach" or something
[10:19] <shaya> dont want to install at-spi back onto my laptop right now to test
[10:19] <shaya> as need to do some real work
[10:20] <shaya> basically, when I gdb /opt/gaim/bin/gaim
[10:20] <shaya> it runs
[10:20] <shaya> then stops with some "thread info" error
[10:20] <dholbach> shaya: I'll ask some questions on the bug report - it'd be nice if you could follow up.
[10:20] <shaya> I then "c" it
[10:20] <shaya> and now it errors it
[10:20] <shaya> but when I got the backtrace it continued normally
[10:20] <dholbach> gdb <program>
[10:20] <dholbach> (gdb) handle SIG33 pass nostop noprint
[10:20] <dholbach> (gdb) run <arguments, if any>
[10:20] <shaya> changed away message, and it died w/ the error
[10:20] <dholbach> that might help
[10:21] <shaya> I can try later today
[10:21] <dholbach> Cool. I'll post the information on the bug report.
[10:21] <dholbach> We'll need to get more information into the bug report, so we can forward it upstream.
[10:22] <shaya> problem came about because I was testing the at interfaces to try and use it to be a log of everything ones sees while working, "i.e. you read an email, deleted it, but now realize you need it"
[10:31] <tk401> hello everyone
[10:32] <tk401> anyone alive?
[10:33] <tk401> hey hunger
[10:33] <shaya> dholbach: the error is thread_db_get_info: cannot get thread info: generic error
[10:33] <shaya> I then cont it and it get
[10:34] <shaya> Cannot remove breakpoints because program is no longer writable.
[10:34] <shaya> It might be running in another process.
[10:34] <dholbach> shaya: even with the instructions I pointed to in the bug report?
[10:34] <shaya> yep
[10:35] <shaya> I can try w/o tls
[10:35] <dholbach> you shouldn't have to continue at all
[10:35] <shaya> it goes starting program
[10:35] <shaya> thread debugging...
[10:35] <shaya> new thread
[10:35] <shaya> ....
[10:35] <shaya> a few times
[10:35] <shaya> then the error
[10:36] <dholbach> hmmmm
[10:37] <dholbach> shaya: thanks - could you follow up with that information on the bug report too?
[10:38] <shaya> ok
[10:39] <shaya> done
[10:42] <dholbach> cool
[11:46] <setuid> Anyone know why cups/lpr has been broken in Ubuntu? Its lobotomized, and doesn't work at all. 
[11:46] <setuid> But upstream, unpatched, unmodified cups works flawlessly, of course. 
[12:02] <shaya> I'm confused by recent changes to network-manager, it seems the patches included w/ it prevent it from seeing my madwifi wireless card?