[01:42] <LaserJock> hi arnieboy again ;-)
[01:42] <arnieboy> hey there LaserJock sup?
[01:42] <LaserJock> not much, trying to work on some bugs and write some doc, etc.
[01:42] <LaserJock> and you?
[01:43] <arnieboy> ahh well.. nothing much.. worked for half of the day.. fought with my girlfriend.. made up and now am probably gonna watch a movie and have dinner
[01:47] <LaserJock> I see, have fun then :-)
[01:47] <arnieboy> yo u too bud
[01:47] <LaserJock> thanx
[01:48] <LaserJock> although a movie does sound much better the writing docs
[01:49] <arnieboy> yeah well writing docs isnt all that bad either
[01:49] <Madpilot> gah, I just created an xml diff so big it's being held by the list software... :P
[01:50] <LaserJock> lol
[01:50] <LaserJock> gotta keep'm small Madpilot ;-)
[01:51] <Madpilot> seems list attachments have to be below 40Kb - the two I just sent off are ~60Kb total...
[01:51] <LaserJock> I don't want svn to choke trying to update :-)
[01:52] <Madpilot> actually, the svn diff for config-system.xml is larger than the real xml file...
[01:53] <LaserJock> yeah, I had a few of those for the packaging guide when I first started redoing it
[01:53] <Madpilot> anyway, Jerome will probably just apply the patches; he's our ML admin and has commit rights too
[01:54] <LaserJock> I had one that was almost twice the size of the xml
[01:54] <LaserJock> Madpilot: do you know if he is the only ML admin?
[01:54] <Madpilot> you must have been changing every single line in the file...
[01:54] <LaserJock> pretty much
[01:54] <Madpilot> LaserJock: not sure, actually. Probably not
[01:54] <LaserJock> I just wondered
[02:04] <LaserJock> hmm, interesting
[02:07] <dsas> isn't that the automatix guy?
[02:08] <Madpilot> yes
[02:08] <LaserJock> he was in -motu also. First time I've seen him on IRC
[02:09] <Madpilot> he showed up in #ubuntu a month or three ago, trolling
[02:09] <Madpilot> there is a #ubuntuforums channel that he & the forum crowd use
[02:10] <dsas> yeah, I think I've stopped by there once.
[02:11] <LaserJock> well, I'm glad to see him but I wonder what his point was. Oh well.
[02:54] <LaserJock> mhz: done with dinner? :-)
[02:54] <mhz> LaserJock: heheh, yeah, and even saw a bit of Toy Story with my daughter
[02:54] <mhz> LaserJock: what is your TZ ?
[02:55] <LaserJock> I'm -8 so I just had dinner as well
[02:55] <mhz> Madpilot: so did you like the SlideShow.py ?
[02:55] <LaserJock> I love Toy Story, one of my favorite movies
[02:56] <mhz> I had never seen it and I think it is a very well done and fun movie
[02:56] <Madpilot> mhz: that's pretty cool - cross-browser, too
[02:56] <mhz> Madpilot: so you tried it?
[02:57] <Madpilot> just the sample one that was linked to - works nicely in Opera
[02:57] <mhz> Madpilot: I am using it in all my wikis
[02:57] <mhz> in case you wanna give it a try
[02:59] <LaserJock> mhz: got any URLs, I missed them earlier?
[03:04] <mhz> LaserJock: for?
[03:04] <mhz> SlideShow?
[03:04] <LaserJock> yeah
[03:04] <LaserJock> I know you do a bunch of wiki stuff, I had a URL once, but I can't find it at the moment
[03:05] <mhz> oh, sure, gimme a sec
[03:06] <LaserJock> I amazed at the stuff that can be done with wiki and I just haven't been able to learn as much as I would like
[03:10] <mhz> LaserJock: yeah, once you get to understand that simplicity is power, it is possible to do many stuff with a well set wiki
[03:15] <mhz> LaserJock: sorry for taking so long, I was on the phone
[03:15] <mhz> http://mhz.homelinux.org/tuxmania/WikiAprende?action=SlideShow
[03:15] <mhz> to see the SlideShow example
[03:15] <mhz> when you are done, click 'quit' at the bottom menu
[03:16] <LaserJock> cool, we should do release notes/announcements that way
[03:18] <LaserJock> hmm, RenderAsDocbook is cool as well
[03:19] <Kyral> Oy...
[03:19] <Kyral> so much to do
[03:19] <Kyral> and where the heck will I fit in Ubuntu
[03:20] <LaserJock> Kyral: don't worry, you will ;-)
[03:20] <Kyral> You don't understand 
[03:20] <Kyral> In response to my blowing the first round of exams
[03:20] <mhz> LaserJock: hehe, I always do my presentations in a wiki page that then is shown using SlideShow, so I only do the work once and it is wikied at the same time, for searches purposes
[03:20] <Kyral> I decided that I have to redo my lifestyle
[03:21] <Kyral> So now I'm studying 3 hours a day, working out for almost 2
[03:21] <Kyral> in addition to 5 hours of classes
[03:21] <LaserJock> Kyral: ahh, I'm getting there too, work, home, Ubuntu
[03:21] <dsas> mhz, that is pretty cool.
[03:22] <Kyral> Ah, I think I can fit in Ubuntu somewhere on Thursdays lol
[03:22] <Kyral> So guys if I drop off the face of the earth, you know that its not because I don't care, its because I need to kickass on my grades :D
[03:22] <mhz> dsas: thx, it is moin power
[03:23] <LaserJock> Kyral: my problem has been compounded by my Ubuntu box at work being replaced with an iMac so it is much more difficult to work.
[03:23] <dsas> any chance of getting that stuff on the ubuntu wiki?
[03:23] <LaserJock> Kyral: don't drop off the face of the earth, just check in once in a while ;-)
[03:23] <Kyral> LJ, if I don't do well inschool, then I don't have a job :P
[03:23] <Kyral> and if I don't have a job, then I don't have Internet
[03:24] <Kyral> I doubt that even Canonical would hire me lol
[03:24] <LaserJock> Kyral: if you do well in school they might ;-)
[03:24] <mhz> dsas: I guess so, if we talk to hno73
[03:25] <mhz> (he's more into moin everyday)
[03:25] <Kyral> LaserJock: I'd prolly wind up at IBM :D
[03:25] <Kyral> LaserJock: They hire like 90% of the CompSci Majors from my school
[03:25] <LaserJock> mhz: is there an English version by chance. I'm sadly unilingual :(
[03:25] <dsas> mhz, sounds good.
[03:25] <dsas> I'm working 7 hours each day, + 2 hours travelling, plus an hours lunch....there's nothing like bug triaging on a windows box in your lunch hour ;)
[03:26] <mhz> LaserJock: hmmm, nope, but I will show you something more in english, gimme a sec
[03:27] <LaserJock> dsas: yeah, that's what I was doing on Bug Day, except from OSX :-)
[03:28] <LaserJock> mhz: I was wondering what the moodle stuff was about.
[03:28] <dsas> heh, it's quite annoying, but you can still get stuff done.
[03:29] <LaserJock> dsas: yeah, although I'm finding that OSX is a bit better since it has a *nix base
[03:30] <dsas> is there much you can do with the nix base in terms of bug triage though?
[03:31] <LaserJock> dsas: not so much but I can ssh to a debian box I set up with a dapper chroot. But for general use for me (packaging and writing docs) OSX is easier than XP, so far anyway.
[03:32] <LaserJock> dsas: although, if fink or darwinports worked on my iMac I think it would be quite a bit better.
[03:32] <dsas> ahh, that's good. I don't have a ubuntu box at work - we only have two linux boxes altogether.
[03:33] <LaserJock> right now I either use my Windows laptop or my OSX iMac to ssh to either my debian box or my Ubuntu box at hoe
[03:33] <LaserJock> s/hoe/home/
[03:34] <dsas> that's quite good, we're not allowed to ssh out to anywhere...and I can't imagine taking my laptop into work for some reason...
[03:37] <LaserJock> well, I ssh from the laptop at home to the Ubuntu box at home. Being able to sit in my recliner and work on stuff overwhelms my disgust with XP ;-)
[03:38] <Kyral> I ssh from anywhere on Campus with my Lappy
[03:38] <Kyral> and as soon as i get my FSF Membership card, I won't need the lappy :D
[03:40] <dsas> Kyral, you have five hours of classes per day at university?
[03:40] <LaserJock> lol, you'll just "use the source" ;-)
[03:40] <Kyral> It still amuses me that my FSF Membership card also doubles as a LiveCD
[03:41] <Kyral> dsas: 6 on Monday, 5 on Wed, Fri
[03:41] <dsas> I ssh'd to my desktop earlier from the other side of my room to skip a track 
[03:41] <Kyral> 2 every other week on Tues
[03:41] <Kyral> and Thursday OFF
[03:42] <dsas> ahh that's not so bad, I thought five hours each day...I only do 12 a week.
[03:42] <Kyral> Yah but now throw in almost 2 hours of workout and 3 hours of studying ;D
[03:42] <Kyral> every day
[03:42] <dsas> s/do/did
[03:43] <Kyral> It will break me, and make me go further
[03:43] <LaserJock> Kyral: yeah, I've always heard "1 hour of studying for every hour of class time"
[03:43] <dsas> oh yeah, I was just surprised of that level of classes.
[03:44] <Kyral> plus I can actually bitch about being tired at the end of the day :D
[03:44] <LaserJock> Kyral: how many credits are you taking?
[03:44] <Kyral> and feel justified collapsing into my chair at the end of the day
[03:44] <Kyral> 19
[03:45] <LaserJock> yeah, that is quite a bit of work. I usually did 18-22 but a lot of the time I had a few "fun" classes like chemistry that didn't take much time
[03:45] <Kyral> Thats the Max Courseload for non-Honors students
[03:46] <Kyral> and even Honors only get to take something like 21 creds
[03:46] <Kyral> But only 16 of those are actual Classes
[03:46] <Kyral> the other three come from Open Source Projects and the Internet Teaching Lab
[03:46] <LaserJock> cool
[03:46] <LaserJock> I often wish I'd done a CS major
[03:47] <Kyral> lol
[03:47] <dsas> you get credits for working on OSS?
[03:47] <Kyral> dsas: yah
[03:47] <Kyral> I'm using Ubuntu as my project :D
[03:48] <dsas> that's cool, we don't have anything like that. What are the course requirements - I mean how do they measure passing the module?
[03:48] <Kyral> I'm taking a minor in IT
[03:49] <Kyral> http://cosi.clarkson.edu/c4c.php
[03:49] <LaserJock> hmm, I did Chemistry and Applied Mathematical Sciences, hardly any computing at all :(
[03:49] <Kyral> Actually this
[03:49] <Kyral> http://www.clarkson.edu/projects/cosi/fa2005/
[03:49] <Kyral> Open Source Projects is more often called "COSI For Credit"
[03:50] <Kyral> Chimata, that reminds me that I have to get my page up
[03:51] <Kyral> http://www.clarkson.edu/projects/cosi/sp2006/ <-- Better because it notes me giving a presentation on LP :D
[03:51] <dsas> I've done two years of a Computer Science degree, I start back again in September to finish off my final year.
[03:52] <Kyral> I want to add Software Engineering to my Minor
[03:52] <Kyral> but I have to talk with my Advisor about that
[03:52] <LaserJock> darn, I've never had a CS related class in my life. My advisor doesn't consider it very important for me. :(
[03:53] <Kyral> Hmm
[03:53] <dsas> I toyed with doing software engineering, but I decided I wanted a CS degree...
[03:54] <Kyral> my documentation on the new Installer could very well nail me 2 creds
[03:55] <Kyral> Shit I have to get working on that
[04:27] <mhz> LaserJock: sorry i took so long, I just ended conversation with colombia
[04:28] <mhz> http://mhz.homelinux.org/elwiki/EmacsCommands?action=SlideShow&n=1
[04:29] <mhz> LaserJock: i hope you like that one
[04:34] <mhz> LaserJock: and regardign the Moodle thing, I was proposing to use Moin + Moodle. Moin it is by far (imho) one of the most powerful wikis out there. So, ifwe used Moin interwiki capabilities (most wikis have it) and we train educational communities to generate their contents in a wiki fashion, we can easily interconnect their knowledge base with all wikis in the world, so when you do searches for "Augusto Pinochet" you get mathces from different wikis
[04:34] <mhz> , but the best thing is that you get what a teacher in Colombia wrote about this chilean dictator, as well as you get the other teachers ideas and writings
[04:36] <Burglaptop> salut all
[04:36] <LaserJock> hi Burglaptop 
[04:37] <dsas> hallo
[04:38] <Madpilot> Burglaptop: welcome back to being connected to the world :P
[04:39] <LaserJock> breezy, who runs breezy ;-)
[04:39] <Burglaptop> it is nice to have internet at home
[04:39] <Burglaptop> I have also been sucked back into Civ3 by my roommate
[04:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[04:41] <dsas> I spend most of my time in my dapper install, but I made the partition to small so it gets annoying after a while, I'm going to install dapper on my main install sometime though.
[04:42] <Madpilot> Aside from Jerome, who else has admin rights over the -doc ML?
[04:51] <Burglaptop> we discussed adding me, but it never happened\
[04:51] <Madpilot> I've just got a set of diffs caught by the filter - over attachment limits, it seems
[04:55] <Burglaptop> my laptop works great in Ubuntu, except for a small touchpad issue
[04:56] <Burglaptop> s/Ubuntu/dapper
[04:56] <Burglaptop> geez I am tired
[05:30] <dsas> me too, good night all.
[05:39] <Burglaptop> Madpilot: so what do you think of my latest hare-brained scheme?
[05:40] <Madpilot> FreeGeekVictoria? sounds cool
[05:41] <Burglaptop> more likely to be called ReLectronics Victoria
[05:41] <Madpilot> Burglaptop: from your email - "on the Sunday after LinuxFestNorthwest." - does this mean you're going to stay in Bellingham overnight?
[05:42] <Burglaptop> Madpilot: likely Monday as well
[05:42] <Burglaptop> nothing is set in stone yet
[05:42] <Madpilot> OK, guess I'll have an empty seat in the plane on the way home
[05:44] <Burglaptop> don't start planning with what to do with that seat quite yet
[05:44] <Madpilot> no worries
[05:46] <Burglaptop> hmm, anacortes is not that far from bellingham
[05:47] <Madpilot> nope. What's in Anacortes?
[05:47] <Burglaptop> ferry to sidney, for coming back on Mon, if possible
[05:48] <Madpilot> ah
[05:49] <Burglaptop> bloody hell, it appears that the washington state ferries website doesn't work in epip
[05:49] <Burglaptop> https://secure1.wsdot.wa.gov/ferries/webres/index.cfm
[05:49] <Burglaptop> can you try that?] 
[05:50] <Burglaptop> try and select a sailing schedule
[05:50] <Madpilot> http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/ferries/schedules/current/index.cfm
[05:52] <Burglaptop> doesn't list the summer schedule, which starts april 2
[05:52] <Madpilot> yeah - awful website, actually...
[05:52] <LaserJock> you guys every go to the San Jaun Islands?
[05:52] <Burglaptop> LaserJock: not in recently
[05:53] <LaserJock> I went sailing there for a week when I was like a Freshmen in college, very beautiful
[05:53] <Madpilot> Burglaptop: best bet is probably to phone Wash. Ferries, that website is hopeless
[05:54] <Burglaptop> ya, will do so monday
[06:54] <LaserJock> anybody know if we have text copies of the FDL and CC-SA licenses in the svn repo?
[06:54] <Madpilot> I think so - in the generic directory?
[06:55] <Madpilot> actually in common/C
[06:56] <Madpilot> we've got the GPL in there too for some reason
[07:04] <LaserJock> GPL is for the Packaging Guide, but I was looking for plain text, not XML
[09:04] <monzie> hi all
[09:04] <monzie> i was working on a WYSIWYG wiki markup editor written in GTK
[09:05] <monzie> to automate the ''' stff
[09:05] <monzie> stuff
[09:05] <monzie> does it have demand in the real world?
[10:09] <Madpilot> monzie: I understand that the latest version of MoinMoin has a Whizzy editor of some sort already - the Ubuntu wiki hasn't been updated yet, though
[10:10] <monzie> okay Madpilot, i need one cause https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDInstallHowTo is what i am working on  now
[10:10] <monzie> and it's goin to be BIG
[10:12] <Madpilot> I think the new MoinMoin also has a desktop editor of some sort
[11:30] <mdke> Madpilot, if you send me the patch, i'll apply it
[11:33] <Madpilot> mdke: will do, then I'll just cancel the mail to the list
[11:33] <mdke> ok
[11:34] <Madpilot> sent
[11:37] <mdke> got it
[11:37] <Madpilot> I hadn't realized the attach limit was so low - 40Kb to the list
[11:38] <mdke> hmm
[11:38] <mdke> have you svn upped?
[11:38] <mdke> your common tasks patch was a bit odd
[11:38] <Madpilot> hmm, it was current when I created it, I'm pretty sure
[11:38] <mdke> oh, perhaps I missed something
[11:39] <mdke> yeah, my bad
[11:39] <mdke> ok thanks
[11:39] <mdke> you rock
[11:41] <Madpilot> np - the config-system diff is so big because it's a complete recoding to procedure/step markup
[11:41] <Madpilot> the diff is actually bigger than the real config-system.xml...
[11:43] <mdke> lol
[11:43] <mdke> so what do we need to focus on atm for the desktop guide?
[11:43] <mdke> it's looking in reasonable shape
[11:44] <Madpilot> content-wise, I'm not sure - been focussing on the code for a few days now.
[11:45] <Madpilot> I only just noticed that we have an actual iPod section now... :P
[11:45] <mdke> not a particularly long one though
[11:46] <Madpilot> code-wise, the other two main files - getting-started & getting-help - need to be moved to procedure/step and tidied a bit
[11:46] <mdke> tidied how?
[11:46] <mdke> I will look at them today
[11:46] <Madpilot> I'm just going through getting-started now, actually.
[11:47] <Madpilot> hmm, should we have OSX ISO burning instructions as well as XP & Ubuntu ones?
[11:52] <mdke> i'm not convinced we should have XP/UBuntu ones even :)
[11:53] <mdke> yeah I don't like the software specific burning instructions
[11:54] <mdke> Nero >_<
[11:57] <Madpilot> that's the trouble with OSes that ship incomplete, like XP does...
[11:58] <Madpilot> is there a definition tag for Docbook?
[12:00] <mdke> what is that?
[12:00] <Madpilot> found it - <variablelist>
[12:00] <Madpilot> dictionary or glossary type list-markup
[12:01] <Madpilot> http://opensource.bureau-cornavin.com/crash-course/variablelist.html
[12:02] <Madpilot> ...for the Common Commands list in Getting Started, in our case
[12:03] <mdke> ah nice
[12:04] <mdke> getting started/introduction is so long...
[12:04] <Madpilot> more tag soup, though - but nice semantic markup for the translators, I guess
[12:06] <mdke> i don't think getting-help needs procedure tags
[12:06] <mdke> it's not a procedure, i prefer bullet points for those
[12:06] <Madpilot> the ISO-burning stuff?
[12:07] <mdke> no, the getting-help chapter at the end
[12:11] <Madpilot> haven't even looked at it - but yeah, that works just as a bulleted list
[12:11] <Madpilot> or whatever - it's actually a numbered list right now
[12:16] <mdke> i'll upload a change to that quickly
[12:17] <mdke> hello dsas, just wanted to say thanks for the great work on the programming stuff lately
[12:19] <dsas> mdke: I'm not sure about great, but no problem.
[12:21] <dsas> mdke: It's quite satisfying to give things back
[12:26] <mdke> you bet
[12:27] <Madpilot> It helps to remind yourself of this while you're beating your head against some XML that isn't behaving... :P
[12:29] <mdke> Madpilot, you love your XML :)
[12:32] <Madpilot> right now I am confused by my XML - the errors Yelp is giving me don't make any sense
[12:38] <Madpilot> sod it - mdke, I've got a lot of changes done to getting-start.xml, but I can't figure out the errors that Yelp & the validate script are throwing out - it's late here...
[12:39] <Madpilot> could I just send you the diff and you can have a look at the code?
[12:39] <mdke> Madpilot, of course
[12:40] <Madpilot> OK, thanks -  just a minute 
[12:45] <Madpilot> mdke: sent
[12:48] <mdke> ok
[12:49] <mdke> i'll have a look later one
[12:49] <mdke> one/on
[12:50] <Madpilot> thanks - I'm off. Suddenly it's past 0300  - no wonder the XML wasn't making sense anymore
[12:50] <mdke> nighty nighty
[02:25] <Kamping_Kaiser> i'm about to make a link to the online help for ubuntu. do you recommend help.ubuntu as the stable, or doc.ubuntu as the more up to date one to link to?
[02:27] <mhz> morning guys
[02:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi mhz
[02:28] <dsas> morning
[02:28] <mhz> Will this be useful for wiki-newbies ? I could make even more userfrinedly if you guys consider it useful?
[02:28] <mhz> http://mhz.homelinux.org/tuxmania/WikiCourse/BasicIntroduction/000_What_is_a_Wiki%3F
[02:28] <mhz> hi Kamping_Kaiser and dsas 
[02:28] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi dsas
[02:28] <dsas> Kamping_Kaiser: help.ubuntu.com will be updated in a couple of months, and pointing towards doc.ubuntu.com may confuse people with some dapper specific stuff
[02:29] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok. help it is. :)
[02:31] <dsas> mhz: I can't see the text on "tips on the editor" without selecting it..
[02:32] <mhz> dsas: GUI editor?
[02:32] <mhz> dsas: or which page?
[02:34] <dsas> http://mhz.homelinux.org/tuxmania/WikiCourse/BasicIntroduction/091_Tips_on_the_Editor
[02:34] <dsas> the text in the table.
[02:36] <mhz> dsas: oh, thx, that's using Theme font color. Ok, try it now
[02:37] <dsas> that's much better
[02:40] <mhz> dsas: thx for pinting it. I was used to use black font color on my themes :)
[02:40] <mhz> pointing
[02:41] <dsas> mhz: I think it's quite useful, it's taught me something anyway
[02:41] <mhz> cool
[02:41] <mhz> do you think it could work for a "Before you screw our wiki" Tour ?
[02:41] <dsas> it covers some topics that aren't typical newbie tasks too.
[02:42] <jsgotangco> yeah let's add that screw our wiki clause
[02:42] <mhz> lol
[02:43] <mhz> so, IMHO, SlideShow macro renders and works much better because it takes only one page and splits according to = headings =
[02:44] <mhz> I can talk to hno73 about including such macro, I can make those slides become one single wiki page, and users will take this tour in a more userfriendly way 
[02:44] <mhz> would you agree?
[02:45] <mhz> (SlideShow single page is even less expensive for low bandwith users and they can even save it and print it faster)
[02:47] <mhz> The only thing I'd like to add so far, is examples with Ubuntu pages, andonce it is done, I'd appreciate peer reviewing, please
[02:49] <jsgotangco> mdke, that's a very fine cabinet
[02:52] <dsas> mhz_breakfast: Personally I think I preferred the slideshow format you did last night - the single page one.
[02:53] <mhz_breakfast> dsas: me too, " SlideShow macro renders and works much better..."
[02:54] <mhz_breakfast> the only detail is I have no projector to try fonst size (SlideShow rendering is CSS dependant)
[02:54] <dsas> oh right, sorry. I didn't realise that that's what it meant.
[02:54] <mhz_breakfast> :)
[02:54] <mhz_breakfast> so, if any of you could try CSS SlideShow with a projector, please let me know about fonts sizes
[02:55] <dsas> should've read it properly. The amount of people using a projector to browse a wiki must be quite small :)
[02:56] <mhz_breakfast> ohh, BTW, those wiki slides should already be in wiki.ubuntu... /data dirs
[03:00] <cyclister> hi
[03:02] <cyclister> I want to ask some strange question that might be not spelled open in this chat, want to chat with someone if someone want
[03:02] <cyclister> not in terms of sexual matters =S
[03:13] <cyclister> ok ya u where really fun to chat with
[03:13] <cyclister> have a nice
[03:13] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:32] <mdke> jsgotangco, yeah i like it
[03:32] <mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, doc.ubuntu.com is not online help
[03:33] <Kamping_Kaiser> mdke: so it's just the docteams playground?
[03:33] <mdke> yes
[03:33] <jsgotangco> you should point to help.ubuntu.com
[03:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok. will do
[03:35] <mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, what are you working on, out of interest?
[03:37] <Kamping_Kaiser> mdke: one of the groups i volenteer with recently had a change in governemtn, and I'm now in charge of the website. I'm making changes to the site http://www.itshare.org.au/live/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,23/Itemid,51/
[03:37] <mdke> oh right cool
[04:51] <mdke> i thought we got rid of the sample/ directory for the server guide?
[06:08] <mdke> jdub, around?
[10:54] <mdke> oh cool, you emailed
[10:55] <Madpilot> yeah, just did - patch looks good
[10:55] <mhz> re
[10:55] <Madpilot> why remove the wiki from Getting Help, though?
[11:02] <mdke> because hopefully there will just be one link for documentation by dapper
[11:02] <mdke> if not, we can re-add the link
[11:03] <Madpilot> of course - so the help.u.c wiki is actually moving forward?
[11:03] <mdke> well, the spec is ready
[11:03] <mdke> we're waiting on a server
[11:04] <Madpilot> cool - I noticed that the UserDocumentationBeta page is fairly complete
[11:04] <Madpilot> although the ppl doing most of it are a bit too fond of creating unnecessary subpages, I think
[11:05] <mdke> yes, i replied on list saying they should stick to the current structure for now
[11:05] <mdke> and just migrate the links
[11:05] <mdke> add your comments
[11:06] <Madpilot> My favourite is the extra collected-Opera-help page that was created, when there is only one page for Opera in the entire wiki...
[11:10] <mdke> yes, i don't think it makes sense to reorganise the wiki AND write new content at the same time
[11:11] <mdke> it's biting off too much at once
[11:18] <LaserJock> mdke: we don't have plain text copies of FDL and CC-SA do we?
[11:19] <mdke> don't think so, but they are on the websites
[11:19] <LaserJock> ubuntu websites or GNU and Creative Commons websites?
[11:19] <mdke> the latter
[11:19] <mdke> Madpilot, any thoughts on the common preface.xml?
[11:19] <LaserJock> ok
[11:20] <Madpilot> mdke: sounds like a good idea, haven't really looked at the content though - it's the same Conventions &c that we already had in UDG, right?
[11:20] <LaserJock> mdke: I think the common preface is a good idea. Will it include license info?
[11:20] <mdke> yes, although i cut a bit out
[11:21] <mdke> LaserJock, i don't think so, does it currently?
[11:21] <LaserJock> I'm not sure, I guess it comes in the bookinfo.xml
[11:21] <mdke> yes i think that's right
[11:22] <LaserJock> I was thinking that would be really the only reason why the Packaging Guide couldn't use a common preface so I wanted to make sure
[11:22] <mdke> yep, i think it's ok
[11:23] <LaserJock> mdke: btw, I asked about the FDL/CC-SA licenses because the copyright file for the ubuntu-docs package currently says that the docs are GPL :(
[11:24] <mdke> yes, if you want you can take that bug
[11:24] <mdke> it's 27923
[11:24] <mdke> i hadn't got round to it so far
[11:24] <LaserJock> yah, I'll do it.
[11:25] <mdke> thanks
[11:26] <Madpilot> mdke: getting-started.xml still isn't loading in Yelp/Breezy, and not validating either :(
[11:26] <mdke> argh
[11:27] <Madpilot> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/8905
[11:27] <Madpilot> validation errors ^^^
[11:27] <mdke> must be the slash
[11:28] <mdke> oh i see
[11:28] <mdke> doh
[11:28] <Madpilot> it's that damned variable list tag I tried to get clever with last night, but with odd refs to other tags that look OK...
[11:28] <mdke> no, it's that you can't have spaces in id="" attributes
[11:29] <mdke> did you svn up?
[11:29] <Madpilot> yeah, that was on a current checkout, including your commit of a few minutes ago
[11:29] <mdke> i didn't get the same errors as you
[11:30] <mdke> svn up again and try
[11:30] <Madpilot> same errors
[11:30] <mdke> works here
[11:30] <mdke> do "svn status"
[11:31] <mdke> maybe common-tasks hasn't been updated for you because you edited it earlier
[11:31] <Madpilot> yeah, I just deleted the whole desktopguide folder, replaced with svn, and it validates :P
[11:32] <mdke> svn revert common-tasks.xml would have worked :)
[11:32] <Madpilot> the blunt-object method works too
[11:32] <mdke> heh, anyhow, you made me pick up another error :)
[11:32] <mdke> ok, -> bed
[11:32] <Madpilot> it works in Yelp now as well
[11:32] <Madpilot> later
[11:57] <LaserJock> we are using CC-SA version 2.5, right?
[12:01] <Madpilot> 2.0, at least on the Ubuntu Desktop Guide currently
[12:01] <LaserJock> hmm, interesting