[01:56] <neuralis> fabbione: we have ganglia packages, please advise if anything else needs to be done with those. cheers.
[06:01] <Psi-Jack> Hmm. Why does php5 depend on apache2-mpm-prefork? Does that mean that php5 is compiled with non-threading in mind? :/
[06:54] <LordHunter317> php isn't thread safe.
[07:25] <Psi-Jack> LordHunter317: Yeah. I noticed. :/
[07:25] <Psi-Jack> Upsets me, too.
[07:26] <Psi-Jack> PHP itself, is threadsafe. The package made for ubuntu, is not.
[07:27] <fabbione> PHP is not thread safe.
[07:27] <fabbione> that's why it is built with prefork
[07:28] <Psi-Jack> PHP5 is perfectly threadsafe. Don't tell me it's not, when I personally know it is.
[07:28] <fabbione> upstream says otherwise according to our maintainers
[07:28] <Psi-Jack> I've run quite reliable systems with PHP5 threaded.
[07:28] <LordHunter317> Psi-Jack: no, it isn't.
[07:29] <LordHunter317> mpre importantly, even if php5 core was, half the modules it ships with aren't.
[07:29] <LordHunter317> so it's effectively not-thread safe.
[07:29] <LordHunter317> it's shipped prefork by /everyone/ with good cause.
[07:30] <Psi-Jack> LordHunter317: Hey. Everything /I/ use in php5, has been reliably thread-safe. Even the gd stuff.
[07:31] <LordHunter317> i think you've just been lucky.
[07:31] <Psi-Jack> I've setup custom fbsd servers with a fully thread-safe base system, with all libs being thread-safe compiled.
[07:31] <LordHunter317> that's impossible.
[07:31] <LordHunter317> not everything shipped is thread-safe.
[07:31] <LordHunter317> you don't know what 'thread-safe' means.
[07:31] <Psi-Jack> Not impossible, no. Not everything has the option for threading.
[07:31] <LordHunter317> which makes your statment a contradiction...
[07:32] <Psi-Jack> Actually, re-read my statement.
[07:32] <LordHunter317>  with all libs being thread-safe compiled.
[07:32] <LordHunter317> that's impossible, as I said.
[07:32] <fabbione> Psi-Jack: even PHP5 build system tells you that it is not thread safe
[07:32] <Psi-Jack> with a fully thread-safe _base_ system
[07:32] <Psi-Jack> I didn't say EVERYTHING.
[07:32] <LordHunter317> yes, you did.
[07:32] <LordHunter317> learn to read.
[07:32] <LordHunter317> _all_ means everything.
[07:33] <Psi-Jack> Where did I say all? :)
[07:33] <LordHunter317> 01:31 <Psi-Jack> I've setup custom fbsd servers with a fully thread-safe base system, with all libs being thread-safe compiled.
[07:33] <LordHunter317> and even that is a life.
[07:33] <LordHunter317> err lie.,
[07:33] <LordHunter317> ANSI C isn't thread safe.
[07:33] <LordHunter317> it's impossible.
[07:33] <LordHunter317> you can't be both thread safe and in keeping with the standard.
[07:34] <Psi-Jack> Anyway. Right now, I don't care. For the most part, I
[07:35] <Psi-Jack> I'm just gonna deal with the prefork model, till it pains me to re-compile it. :)
[07:35] <Psi-Jack> But, what's up with the phpmyadmin package for breezy, including /etc/phpmyadmin/config.inc.php, but not seeming to actually read it?
[07:35] <LordHunter317> o_O?  i haven't had that problem on Debian.
[07:36] <LordHunter317> it doesn't really matter.  apache is so slow anyway.
[07:36] <LordHunter317> and last I looked, thread-safe php was slower, not faster.
[07:36] <LordHunter317> the interpreter isn't locked very well.
[07:36] <Psi-Jack> It includes it, and all.. But, if I edit /usr/share/phpmyadmin/config.inc.php's $cfg lines, it bombs out saying that config.inc.php isn't setup. Which means, it's not reading the included /etc/phpmyadmin/config.inc.php. It's getting the blowfish, fine, but not the config.
[07:36] <LordHunter317> though my knowledge isn't recent.
[07:37] <LordHunter317> that is particular.
[07:37] <Psi-Jack> peculier? :)
[07:37] <LordHunter317> it's late.
[07:37] <LordHunter317> i'm worried about more imporant things than my diction.
[07:38] <Psi-Jack> And actually, in my servers, it was 3-6 times faster. :)
[07:38] <Psi-Jack> Paired with ZendOptimizer, at least.
[07:38] <LordHunter317> i don't think I've deployed an application yet where apache was the bottleneck.
[07:38] <LordHunter317> or where, "get a new server" isn't a valid response.
[07:40] <Psi-Jack> Son-of-a.
[07:40] <Psi-Jack> Shoot me!
[07:40] <Psi-Jack> Just fricken shoot me!
[07:40] <LordHunter317> ?
[07:40] <Psi-Jack> All the lines in the stock phpmyadmin package config.inc.php, are commented. heh
[07:41] <LordHunter317> rol.
[07:41] <Psi-Jack> One by fricken one, instead of just using a /* */ method, that actually pisses me off. :)
[07:41] <LordHunter317> it's preferable.
[07:41] <LordHunter317> any developer prefers it.
[07:41] <Psi-Jack> Using // on every fscking line, for 20+ lines?
[07:42] <LordHunter317> yes.
[07:42] <LordHunter317> because it's nestable, and because it lets me selectively uncomment lines.
[07:42] <Psi-Jack> I don't prefer it, and I am a developer. :p
[07:42] <LordHunter317> in most languages /* /* */ */ doesn't work.
[07:46] <Psi-Jack> Grr.
[07:56] <fabbione> neuralis: yes i saw the email. will do on monday hopefully...
[08:00] <Psi-Jack> heh, this is odd..
[08:00] <Psi-Jack> Why does postfix-ldap suggest postfix-mysql and postfix-pgsql? :)
[08:08] <LordHunter317> someone at ubuntu bugged up.
[08:08] <LordHunter317> oh, did you have postfix installed at all before?
[08:09] <LordHunter317> what you may be seeing is postfix-ldap depending on postfix suggseting the last two.
[08:09] <Psi-Jack> Nope. Just now finally setting up this kubuntu server I installed several days ago.
[08:09] <LordHunter317> well, htat's the only way I cfan see that being seen.
[08:09] <LordHunter317> on debian sid, ldap doesn't suggest.
[08:09] <LordHunter317> if it does in ubuntu, it's a bug.
[08:12] <fabbione> the debian and ubuntu packages of postfix are exactly the same
[08:12] <fabbione> the maintainer is the same
[08:12] <fabbione> and there is no discrepancies between the 2
[08:12] <LordHunter317> well then, that's how it was seen.
[08:12] <fabbione> Suggests: is pulled in according to the package manager you are using
[08:13] <fabbione> and it's not installed by default
[08:13] <fabbione> just Suggeted
[08:13] <fabbione> Suggested
[08:13] <fabbione> = no harm
[08:13] <LordHunter317> it fustrates me though that aptitude has no way to pull suggests like it does recommends.
[08:13] <LordHunter317> well, trivially.
[08:14] <LordHunter317> anyway. I'm out.
[09:11] <Psi-Jack> Hmm
[09:12] <Psi-Jack> Anyone got any suggestions for ldap schema layout for virtual-hosting setups with postfix and cyrus-imapd
[09:12] <Psi-Jack> ?
[09:19] <Psi-Jack> Looks like the misc.schema has what I need. Just gotta make proper use of it. heh
[12:17] <mpathy> Hi there..
[12:18] <mpathy> How do I get ubuntu-server, with its nice default configuration, on a dedicated server? When I debootstrap ubuntu, I loose all the nice configuration right? is there another way?
[12:51] <JulienH> Hi all
[12:53] <JulienH> Will webmin package or something like be moved from "universe" to "main" in Dapper ? I'm asking because of security fixes support with the main component
[03:02] <mpathy> are there no wiki pages or sth. like that for ubuntu-server?
[03:03] <mpathy> because I recognized a big interest in a debian-based server-specific distribution, but with newer packages like some apache2 and php5 packages..
[03:04] <mpathy> really sad
[03:05] <spike> what's sad?
[03:06] <spike> mpathy: there are wiki pages related to ubuntu-server around, just not grouped under a macro ubuntu-server page
[03:06] <spike> mpathy: and there's a ubuntu-server forum, check out the topic
[03:07] <mpathy> yeah sure.. but at least I would put a link list online somewhere
[03:08] <mpathy> spike: and a forum is not the greatest tool for this
[03:09] <spike> mpathy: I agree, when I joined I proposed/asked for an server.ubuntu.com but I've been told that wasnt necessary
[03:09] <mpathy> spike: perhaps a directory in the ubuntu wiki would be a start
[03:09] <spike> might try again if more of us will support that
[03:10] <spike> yeah, that too
[03:10] <mpathy> spike: Hmm.. WHO told you that
[03:10] <spike> mpathy: are you subscribed to the list?
[03:10] <spike> mpathy: mailistlist, that is
[03:10] <mpathy> we at the art-team do have a subdomain..
[03:10] <spike> ah
[03:11] <spike> well, I'll just post on the list and see what happens
[03:11] <mpathy> spike: No, but I will. A Mailinglist, additionally being added to GMANE, so that its accessible via a newsreader would be a good start too! :)
[03:12] <spike> 'lo fabbione
[03:13] <fabbione> hi spike
[03:13] <spike> bye :)
[03:26] <ivoks> fabbione: hi
[03:26] <ivoks> fabbione: i just ralized we have ganglia in universe, but outdated
[03:26] <ivoks> realized
[03:27] <fabbione> ivoks: yes.
[03:27] <fabbione> i know
[03:28] <fabbione> that's why we needed the new packages
[03:28] <fabbione> to replace the old ones and move them to main
[03:28] <fabbione> i only need to look at the packages you did before updating tehm
[03:28] <fabbione> them
[03:28] <ivoks> ok
[03:29] <fabbione> ivoks: if you want to look at them and see if you need to merge bits, you have time till tomorrow/tuesday
[03:30] <fabbione> i am sort of overloaded to death
[03:30] <ivoks> fabbione: ok
[03:30] <ivoks> fabbione: take it easy :)
[03:30] <fabbione> i can't
[03:30] <fabbione> we have Feature Freeze next week
[04:25] <Micksa> is there any way at all to permanently change perms in files in /dev?
[04:28] <ubijtsa2> Micksa: you can make udev set them for you when it creates the device nodes
[04:29] <Micksa> ah, I see
[04:29] <ubijtsa2> Micksa: /etc/udev/permissions.rules is what you want to look at
[04:29] <spike> hey ubijtsa2 , how you doin?
[04:29] <ubijtsa2> lo spike
[04:29] <Micksa> do you mean permissions.d?
[04:29] <Micksa> or rules.d?
[04:30] <ubijtsa2> I'm doing alright, DL'ing Kubuntu Flight4 now :)
[04:30] <ubijtsa2> Micksa: permissions.d probably
[04:30] <ubijtsa2> I have a permissions.rules file (Breezy)
[04:31] <spike> me too
[04:31] <ubijtsa2> spike: how's you then?
[04:31] <spike> but guess that's like normal .d stuff, where apps can place their files
[04:31] <spike> there's no reference to it neither in .rules nor in /etc/init.d/udev, tho
[04:32] <spike> maybe it's somewhere else, havent looked to deeply
[04:32] <spike> too*
[04:32] <ubijtsa2> :)
[04:32] <spike> ubijtsa2: I'm coming back home at last!! I was about to kill myself here :)
[04:32] <Micksa> I'll figure it out
[04:33] <Micksa> dammit
[04:33] <Micksa> I can't get a 2.4 uml working in dapper
[04:33] <spike> ubijtsa2: one more week to go, tho :/
[04:33] <Micksa> there appears to be no hope
[04:33] <ubijtsa2> spike: *grin* alrighty :)
[04:33] <Micksa> mslade@boo:~$ linux
[04:33] <Micksa> Killed
[04:33] <ubijtsa2> spike: how'd the cv stuff go?
[04:33] <spike> ubijtsa2: my version worked too :P
[04:33] <ubijtsa2> spike: good stuff :)
[04:34] <spike> and that's actually more than a problem now ehehe, kinda overloaded :)
[04:34] <Micksa> WTF
[04:34] <Micksa> mslade@boo:~$ strace linux
[04:34] <Micksa> execve("/home/mslade/bin/linux", ["linux"] , [/* 41 vars */] ) = 0
[04:34] <Micksa> +++ killed by SIGKILL +++
[04:35] <spike> coffee break, c you in a bit
[05:35] <virogenesis> hi
[05:48] <LordHunter317> hi
[05:52] <virogenesis> after installing postgresql what needs to be done to be to use it would you say?
[05:56] <spike> virogenesis: depends how you intend to use it of course
[05:57] <virogenesis> i'll be using it locally basicaly a webdev box , same machine i'll code on
[05:58] <spike> you could use psql to talk to the db, or install the relevant modules to use it through ur application of choice, ie apache/php if it's a web thingie
[06:00] <spike> virogenesis: what language are you gonna use for web development?
[06:01] <virogenesis> i've got apache and php installed its just with mysql you set a password for root for the db what happens with postgresql?
[06:02] <spike> virogenesis: have you read postgresql documentation?
[06:03] <virogenesis> i guess its alot different from mysql by the sounds of it i should read it i suppose
[06:05] <spike> you suppose right
[06:05] <LordHunter317> you don't.
[06:05] <LordHunter317> unless you're going to use it over the network, you don't set a password.
[06:05] <LordHunter317> ever.
[06:06] <LordHunter317> create an account for whatever use will run the software you're using.
[06:06] <LordHunter317> it checks the credentials of the acessing process.
[06:06] <LordHunter317> so sudo -u postgres psql to start the monitor as the DB admin, and 'CREATE USER me;' so you can acess the DB, then 'CREATE USER www-data;' for Apache.
[06:06] <LordHunter317> then grant permissions as needed.
[06:08] <spike> so all the hosted applications can nicely access each other DB
[06:08] <spike> nice plan
[06:08] <virogenesis> sounds simple enough thanks LordHunter317  answers a few questions i'm gonna read the docs aswell
[06:08] <LordHunter317> spike: no.
[06:08] <LordHunter317> for hosted stuff, you have everything urnning as different users anyway.
[06:08] <LordHunter317> you hvae to.
[06:09] <LordHunter317> it's infinitely more secure for local databases than a password.
[06:09] <spike> not everybody uses suexec or suphp
[06:09] <LordHunter317> moreover, most hosting provdiers ptu databases on other machiens anyway, rendering this irrelevant.
[06:09] <LordHunter317> spike: and if you have multiple users and you don't, you're incompetent.
[06:09] <LordHunter317> pure and simple.
[06:10] <LordHunter317> multiple untrusted users don't share an account, unless it's the anonymous FTP / SAMBA/ etc. account.
[06:10] <LordHunter317> and oyu have more immeidate things to worry about than the database, in that case.
[06:10] <spike> LordHunter317: pure and simple, but not given. point is u cant jump is and say that "user/password" arent of any use assuming all of that
[06:10] <LordHunter317> like <?php system("/bin/rm -rf /var/www/*") ?> and trashing /everyone's/ files
[06:10] <LordHunter317> spike: yes, I can.  see above.
[06:11] <LordHunter317> if you have multiple untrusted users, they run in seperate accounts.
[06:11] <LordHunter317> your security is already gone if you don't do it, so discussing hte database is irrelevant.
[06:11] <LordHunter317> you're overextending yourself.
[06:11] <spike> I'm what?
[06:11] <LordHunter317> overextending.  the database is of no concernt at that point.
[06:11] <LordHunter317> who cares if I can get in the database?  I can delete all their files anyway.
[06:12] <LordHunter317> or trojan their scrips.
[06:12] <LordHunter317> the username/apssword security on the db become instantly irrelevant.
[06:12] <LordHunter317> so I can still get in the DB.
[06:12] <spike> u're missing the point, but whatever, I'm not the one who asked a question
[06:13] <LordHunter317> spike: no, I', not, you are.
[06:13] <LordHunter317> spike: if two "users" share an account as www-data.
[06:13] <LordHunter317> the permissions used to access the database are /irrelevant/.
[06:13] <LordHunter317> be it a process credentials check or username/password for the db, user a can get user b's data and vice-versa.
[06:13] <spike> u're missing the point because u're trying to convince me of something I already know :)
[06:13] <LordHunter317> because they trojan the scripts.
[06:13] <LordHunter317> spike: no, you don't, as you wouldn;'t have said waht you said if you did.
[06:14] <spike> and u're missing the point because u dont answer like that someone who never used pgsql
[06:14] <spike> no, I said that because I didnt assume what you did
[06:14] <spike> that's the difference
[06:14] <LordHunter317> spike: i;m assuming zero.
[06:14] <LordHunter317> what's teh assumption?
[06:14] <spike> u're assuming best practise
[06:14] <LordHunter317> no, I'm not.
[06:14] <LordHunter317> it still holds in the case you mentioned.
[06:15] <LordHunter317> because it's irrelevant.
[06:15] <LordHunter317> as I've said.
[06:15] <LordHunter317> do you need me to set this up and show you?
[06:15] <LordHunter317> i can.
[06:16] <LordHunter317> and I should make a minor correctoin: they can't necessarily trojan the script, but they certainly can read  the DB password out of it.
[06:18] <spike> u should make a lot of minor corrections, like safe_mode and denied access to /bin/rm
[06:18] <LordHunter317> neither of which will stop DB access.
[06:18] <LordHunter317> and safe_mode can be bypassed pretty trivally anyway.
[06:18] <LordHunter317> *oops*
[06:44] <virogenesis> its highly annoying that they talk about the syntax before admining the server bloody weird
[06:45] <LordHunter317> tehy're seperate parts.
[06:46] <LordHunter317> there isn't much admining to do, really.
[06:46] <LordHunter317> it's very much a "it works" or "it doesn't owrk" situation, most of the time.
[06:47] <LordHunter317> the rest is just avoiding some gotchas, like SELECT COUNT(*) and that bulk loading via INSERT or SPROC is really, really slow.
[06:50] <LordHunter317> also, Npgsql sucks but that doesn't matter unless you're doing .NET development.