[06:40] <highvoltage> ogra: howdy. the ubuntu announce list mentions en edubuntu flight 4 cd. is it available yet?
[07:11] <jjjjjjj> hi, anyone here?
[07:12] <jjjjjjj> hi zakame
[07:13] <zakame> heya jjjjjjj :D
[07:13] <jjjjjjj> can i ask a q: ?
[07:14] <jjjjjjj> i would like to setup edubuntu as a server and have thin clients connect to it.  is this feature built in or do i do freenx for that task?
[07:14] <jjjjjjj> i would like to setup edubuntu as a server and have thin clients connect to it.  is this feature built in or do i do freenx for that task?
[07:15] <jjjjjjj> and... do them thin client pc's need a hard drive.
[07:15] <highvoltage> jjjjjjj: it has it built-in, it just requires some post-install configuration
[07:18] <jjjjjjj> sudo apt-get something?
[07:22] <jjjjjjj> i did try sudo apt-get install desktop-server yesterday but saw no real difference from edubuntu-desktop
[07:33] <jjjjjjj> how proficient should one be with edubuntu if he/she wants to try any Testing?
[07:40] <jjjjjjj> well just in case someone else asks the same question I did about terminal servers maybe send them here.
[07:40] <jjjjjjj> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook/Chapter_5_-_Thin-Client_Computing?highlight=%28thin-client%29
[07:41] <jjjjjjj> thank you and goodbye.
[07:41] <jsgotangco> nice nick
[08:11] <jsgotangco> hey guys i just uploaded an updated edubuntu release notes and should build in doc.ubuntu.com in a few minutes
[08:11] <jsgotangco> still need to check other stuff
[08:18] <jsgotangco> oh wait a bit
[08:18] <jsgotangco> i just remembered
[08:18] <jsgotangco> 5.10 didn't have PPC!
[09:30] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: i see an irc message from you made it onto the flight 4 page :)
[09:30] <jsgotangco> lol
[09:30] <jsgotangco> it was staged
[09:32] <highvoltage> :)
[09:32] <jsgotangco> im building a quick guide page for the distro at the moment
[09:32] <jsgotangco> (edubuntu)
[09:41] <highvoltage> nice
[09:41] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: i'm building up a text file with comments i'm going to send to ogra 
[09:41] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: it included some things for that start page
[09:41] <jsgotangco> whats in that?
[09:41] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[09:42] <highvoltage> for instance, i think we should have links in that page to the local installation of schooltool
[09:42] <highvoltage> because there's no real link to it anywhere in the entire edubuntu UI
[09:42] <jsgotangco> doc.ubuntu.com doesn't seem to build my current work so if you have a working copy of ubuntu-docs from svn just update
[09:42] <highvoltage> ok
[11:12] <jsgotangco> JaneW, i've made previews of docs for edubuntu at doc.ubuntu.com
[11:13] <jsgotangco> at the moment it just contains release notes and about edubuntu
[11:13] <jsgotangco> i'll try to finish up the prelimiary quickguide TOC for review
[11:18] <JaneW> jsgotangco: great I'll have a look at soon as I can
[12:47] <pips1> hi all
[12:47] <pips1> JaneW, the meeting about the edubuntu website is about to start, right?
[12:49] <JaneW> oh dang, yes
[12:49] <JaneW> it's slipped my mind, because I didn't set a reminder...
[12:49] <pips1> JaneW, you forget!
[12:49] <JaneW> *blush*
[12:49] <pips1> :-)
[12:49] <JaneW> been arranging 3 sprints....
[12:49] <pips1> woah
[12:50] <pips1> well, I made some progress with the drupal test site in the last four days
[12:51] <JaneW> cool
[12:51] <JaneW> we have 5 mins right?
[12:51] <JaneW> I'll brb
[12:51] <pips1> so, I guess people can have a peek... to inform their views regarding the future Edubuntu website
[12:51] <pips1> JaneW, sure
[12:55] <JaneW> ok back - will be having lunch very late today ;)
[12:55] <JaneW> I had no idea so much of the day had passed already!
[12:55] <JaneW> are the other suspects here?
[12:55] <JaneW> highvoltage, mhz and hno73?
[12:56] <highvoltage> hi there
[12:56] <JaneW> hello highvoltage 
[12:56] <JaneW> wonder where mhz is...?
[12:56] <JaneW> hi heno
[12:56] <highvoltage> hi JaneW 
[12:57] <JaneW> btw if everone doesn't know; heno = hno73
[12:57] <highvoltage> heno is easier to pronounce than hno73, i'm glad he changed it
[12:57] <heno> yeah, sorry about the change of nick :p
[12:57] <highvoltage> :)
[12:57] <heno> ok, cool :)
[12:58] <JaneW> heno: it looks like you get to be moin advocate
[12:58] <JaneW> mhz is missing
[12:58] <heno> heh, ok
[12:58] <JaneW> we need to get this sorted out today, once and for all
[12:58] <highvoltage> yes, please!
[12:59] <JaneW> shall we hear from the drupal corner and agree that unless drupal can convince us, we default to Moin?
[12:59] <pips1> ok
[12:59] <JaneW> pips1: no pressure ;)
[12:59] <heno> I think your point was good that whoever ends up maintaining it should have a key say
[01:00] <pips1> ;-)
[01:00] <pips1> heno, agreed
[01:00] <heno> (which I don't plan on doing btw :) )
[01:00] <highvoltage> JaneW: i think both are great, so if it's not drupal, it should certainly be moin, and vice-versa
[01:00] <JaneW> heno: right, I think that's the crux
[01:00] <pips1> yeah, the maintenance is the big question
[01:01] <JaneW> highvoltage: ita, to me it makes no difference, so like I say the person who gets the job so be happy and excited about what they are working on
[01:01] <heno> I don't know very much about the workings of drupal, so I wouldn't mind seeing a deployment up close anyway
[01:01] <JaneW> so do we know who will own it, or are there several part-time volunteers?
[01:01] <pips1> but, let's see what people think about drupal ... they can have a look at the test site i whipped up in the last few days
[01:01] <JaneW> ok, the floor is yours
[01:01] <heno> pips1: URL?
[01:02] <highvoltage> there's not really much on that drupal site :/
[01:02] <pips1> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSiteUnderDevelopment?action=show
[01:02] <pips1> highvoltage, you are right!
[01:03] <pips1> the url are just a few important remarks about the test site
[01:03] <pips1> basically, it's a really old crummy test server, just to show you guys drupal quick, and then I will take the site down again...
[01:04] <pips1> here is the test site url : spock.isz.ch
[01:04] <JaneW> pips1: I was reading that whole page looking for the link to the site!
[01:05] <pips1> JaneW, that was on purpose! ;-)
[01:05] <pips1> hehe
[01:05] <JaneW> pips1: thanks - not
[01:05] <highvoltage> JaneW: he very tactfully forced you to read the entire page ;)
[01:05] <highvoltage> pips1++
[01:05] <JaneW> pips1: how easy is it to change the skin?
[01:05] <pips1> very easy
[01:06] <pips1> i can switch some skins right now for you guys :-)
[01:06] <JaneW> Q:will we have to creat new logins for whichever is chosen?
[01:06] <JaneW> pips1: please do...
[01:06] <pips1> maybe I wait a couple of mins so you can have a look at what's there now
[01:06] <JaneW> pips1: that's the default look right?
[01:07] <pips1> JaneW, new logins when we switch a skin?? no.
[01:07] <highvoltage> JaneW: drupal supports XML RPC so it should be possible to use your launchpad account, iiuc
[01:07] <pips1> JaneW, yes, that's the default look
[01:07] <JaneW> pips1: I mean we currently have wiki logins
[01:07] <heno> changing skins can be easy, but making a good skin takes time ...
[01:07] <JaneW> highvoltage: ok thanks
[01:07] <pips1> heno, you are right about skins taking time
[01:07] <JaneW> although for these pages we don;t want general public access necessarily
[01:08] <pips1> btw, I realised that The Fridge is running with Drupal... does anybody know who maintains the fridge?
[01:08] <JaneW> heno/ pips1 : would it mean redesigning for drupal, or could the moin look be imported in some way?
[01:08] <JaneW> pips1: daniel robitalle I think
[01:08] <pips1> JaneW, I guess we could modify the fridge skin...
[01:09] <heno> JaneW: much of the CSS and images could be ported I'm sure
[01:09] <JaneW> the fridge has a nice skin, but we'd need to give it an edubuntu look
[01:09] <pips1> well, we'd have to ask daniel robitalle
[01:09] <heno> I didn't realise the Fridge used Drupal, cool.
[01:09] <pips1> JaneW, agreed
[01:09] <JaneW> ok so who will run OUR site
[01:09] <pips1> ok, let me change the skin quick, just for fun
[01:10] <JaneW> pips1: you weren't able to give us much time before
[01:10] <heno> jdub did much of the design work for the Fridge I think
[01:10] <JaneW> which is understandable
[01:10] <pips1> done, this is the spreadfirefox theme
[01:10] <JaneW> I expect in this case we will have a lot of work initially, and then things will settle down
[01:11] <JaneW> I like that one more
[01:11] <highvoltage> pips1: do you have the time resources to run the edubuntu drupal site?
[01:11] <heno> Ah, that's cool
[01:11] <JaneW> after the initial intensive work, we will need someone to do ad hoc edits with a reasonable response time
[01:12] <heno> Another key question: what will the site mainly be used for?
[01:12] <heno> community contributions?
[01:12] <JaneW> and then add new stuff and remove old every few months prolly
[01:12] <pips1> highvoltage, well i have some time, because I currently work part-time only, but it would be on an volunteer basis, it would be good if we can share the responsability and help each other out...
[01:12] <JaneW> I'd prefer to see 2/3 ppl contributing
[01:12] <highvoltage> pips1: i'm willing to do that. i had lots of ideas for the original drupal site too
[01:12] <JaneW> but I think 1 person should lead
[01:12] <pips1> JaneW, agreed
[01:13] <highvoltage> at the moment my time looks better too, it seems that my free time will be better for at least the next month or so.
[01:13] <pips1> I am happy to help
[01:13] <JaneW> heno and highvoltage did a fantastic job last time
[01:13] <pips1> I'd be happy for highvoltage to have the lead...
[01:13] <pips1> or whoever volunteers 
[01:13] <JaneW> but we haven't really made changes since then
[01:13] <highvoltage> JaneW: thanks, heno did a fantastic job on the layout though, i have to give him credit there.
[01:13] <JaneW> and I think we need to focus on adding new stuff and keeping up to date and interesting now
[01:14] <pips1> JaneW, yes, content is king
[01:14] <highvoltage> yes, mostly because we've been jumping between drupal and moin
[01:14] <JaneW> yes, I was surprised, I didn't expect our site and wiki to be as fab as they are :))
[01:14] <highvoltage> and partially because we've used moin mostly anyway for pages that should change
[01:14] <heno> highvoltage: nah, you had already done the basic design, I just tweaked :)
[01:15] <JaneW> can we make a call? Drupal vs Moin?
[01:15] <pips1> but I also think that navigation is important, and the site should be very newbie friendly, since we are dealing with educators and kids...
[01:15] <JaneW> pips1: yes agreed
[01:15] <JaneW> ultimately we should have sections for diff users
[01:15] <pips1> JaneW, you want to decide already ?!
[01:15] <JaneW> are there more arguments to be heard?
[01:15] <pips1> I haven't even pointed out some of the features, heck!
[01:15] <heno> perhaps I should show a moin site as well? 
[01:15] <highvoltage> i'm fine with both, but since mhz isn't here, i think it's important to note why the moin site is a good option
[01:15] <heno> http://www.theopencd.org/
[01:15] <JaneW> the fact that the frdige is using drupal means the deicision to go there is not that 'out there'
[01:16] <heno> is one I put up recently
[01:16] <JaneW> heno: and www.ubuntu.com of course ;)
[01:16] <highvoltage> it's what ubuntu.com uses too, and users are used to editing pages in both
[01:16] <heno> It has some locked down pages in front and more of an open wiki elsewhere
[01:16] <heno> JaneW: ah, that too
[01:16] <JaneW> heh
[01:16] <highvoltage> heno: that's the single most nicest moin page i've ever seen
[01:17] <JaneW> I like the crsip neatness of drupal and the frames, but I think moin could have those too
[01:17] <JaneW> so I am completely undecided
[01:17] <JaneW> highvoltage: are you and heno in a mutual flattery club? ;)
[01:17] <heno> http://www2.canonical.com/ is another
[01:17] <pips1> heno, wow you even got a forum in there!
[01:17] <highvoltage> JaneW: seems so, yes :P
[01:18] <heno> pips1: It's a bit of a fake forum
[01:18] <heno> but it sort of works
[01:18] <pips1> JaneW, I know that the design is what appeals to everybody, but don't forget the features... :-)
[01:19] <heno> Good point. What features do we need?
[01:19] <JaneW> the forum is quite nice, if it stays low-volume
[01:19] <heno> How should a community contributor go about submitting something?
[01:19] <JaneW> pips1: ok tlak about the features, cos all I know is the look so far...
[01:19] <pips1> well, i think there are lots of features in use in the "ubuntu world" but they are a bit strewn all over different platforms/tools...
[01:20] <highvoltage> what's a big ++ for drupal, is the structure it provides
[01:20] <heno> How tight should the editorial control be, etc?
[01:20] <JaneW> well are we going to do a gallery or will that stay on art.u.c?
[01:20] <highvoltage> i think it should be on the drupal site, but there's no reason why it couldn't be on both, right?
[01:21] <heno> highvoltage: the problem I have foubd with structured CMSes though is that structure becomes limiting
[01:21] <JaneW> heno: I think we should keep a few front pages with restricted access
[01:21] <heno> stopping you from laying things out the way you want
[01:21] <highvoltage> heno: i think i know what you mean, but in which way does it become limiting the most?
[01:21] <highvoltage> heno: is it that "stuck inside the box" factor?
[01:21] <highvoltage> oh i see.
[01:21] <heno> yes
[01:21] <pips1> heno, regarding editorial control, that's somewhat a political/policy question, personally, I like the open approach of wikis very much, I think it's the way forward, but on the other hand, a wiki needs a bit of learning and I think we could provide a more welcoming experience with some nicely done site
[01:22] <heno> I even wrote a rand about it http://www.theopencd.org/news/2005/newsite :)
[01:23] <highvoltage> the reason why i think drupal is a good reason, is because i think more people will be likely to contribute at this stage. technically, moin is nicer. overall, i think that drupal is the best short-term solution (short term being the next year or so)
[01:23] <pips1> heno, regarding structure: that is the main strong point of drupal: it's not so different from a wiki, i.e. free floating pages, but you can then assign those pages with some structure, during creation (by the author) or afterwards (e.g. by a site architect)
[01:24] <heno> pips1: yep. We once had a teacher use the official SFD wiki as a teaching tool, getting his kids to set up hundreads of random pages there. A bit of a mess
[01:24] <heno> though we were getting spammed ...
[01:25] <pips1> heno, huh? what was getting spammed?
[01:25] <pips1> ah, I understood
[01:25] <heno> pips1: that souds pretty good, like topic tags in gmail
[01:25] <pips1> drupal's access control is simple to understand (unlike zope2 e.g.) but quite powerful
[01:26] <pips1> yes, the new version of drupal (which is in beta 4 and about to be released) features "free tagging" VERY NICE
[01:26] <heno> The moin ACL is poweful and flexible, but a bit of a mess to set up; the syntax is confusing
[01:27] <heno> the ubuntu wiki has no access control at all, amazingly it works
[01:27] <pips1> heno, highvoltage, JaneW - I can send you some account login details, then you can have a look "behind the scenes"
[01:27] <JaneW> pips1: ok thanks
[01:28] <heno> pips1: that would be cool
[01:28] <highvoltage> pips1: i'm familiar with drupals interface, i don't think i need one
[01:28] <highvoltage> perhaps also of interest, check all the plug-ins and skins available at http://www.drupal.org
[01:28] <highvoltage> there's a huge community behind it
[01:28] <heno> what about the hosting itself? where will the site be?
[01:28] <JaneW> heno: good point
[01:29] <highvoltage> heno: on the edubuntu server
[01:29] <heno> is that a data center server?
[01:29] <pips1> ok, i sent emails to heno, highvoltage and JaneW 
[01:29] <highvoltage> heno: yes, it's name is orcadas.ubuntu.com
[01:30] <heno> pips1: would obviously need access to that
[01:30] <pips1> does anybody else here want to have a look ?
[01:30] <JaneW> ty
[01:30] <heno> ah, ok
[01:30] <highvoltage> heno: it's a big server that currenly hosts 3 html pages :)
[01:30] <highvoltage> heno: and that's it!
[01:30] <heno> ah, yes I remember now
[01:31] <heno> do you need shell access to admin a drupal site?
[01:31] <pips1> heno, don't know, lemme check
[01:32] <heno> with moin, you probably do because we're using it in a non-standard way
[01:32] <JaneW> highvoltage: we have our OWn server?
[01:32] <highvoltage> no, you don't need shell access for drupal admin
[01:32] <JaneW> highvoltage: I thought we just had some space on another server?
[01:32] <highvoltage> JaneW: yes, for all practical purposes
[01:33] <highvoltage> i think heno has root, i'm not 100% sure
[01:33] <pips1> heno, no, you don't need root access 
[01:33] <heno> no I don't have root access to any DC machines
[01:34] <heno> just the external pronto servers
[01:34] <highvoltage> JaneW: nope, initially we were going to get an account with an isp, but currently (and for the last 6 months), www.edubuntu.com is the only thing running from that server
[01:34] <JaneW> highvoltage: oic
[01:34] <JaneW> highvoltage: and the technicalities of getting Moin vs Drupal on there... is there much difference?
[01:34] <highvoltage> JaneW: sorry, i see testbed.kubuntu.org is also on that server now
[01:35] <JaneW> highvoltage: you said we needed the sys admins involved...
[01:35] <pips1> hey, nobody participated in the poll yet, under "Contribute" ;-)
[01:35] <pips1> it's a shame that flint isn't here
[01:35] <highvoltage> JaneW: yes, znarl was just about to install drupal when i stopped him last time
[01:35] <JaneW> pips1: er, no it's not!
[01:35] <JaneW> pips1: what poll?
[01:35] <heno> drupal is python based?
[01:35] <pips1> on the test site, under 'contribute'
[01:36] <pips1> heno, no php
[01:36] <spacey> wheres the testsite?
[01:37] <pips1> oh, sorry, I remember, i disabled participating in polls for anonymous users, so you need to login with the details in the mail i sent...
[01:37] <JaneW> pips1: LOL
[01:37] <pips1> spacey, spock.isz.ch
[01:38] <heno> and the admins are fine with a php-based site? 
[01:38] <spacey> dapper drake is a duck as well =)
[01:39] <heno> How is the data stored? in a database? how do version upgrades work? How easy is it to dump the content out of the system?
[01:39] <pips1> heno, in a sql database, either mysql or preferably, postgresql
[01:40] <pips1> small version upgrades can be done with patch files
[01:40] <pips1> large version upgrades also, I think, need to check
[01:41] <pips1> re dumping the content, hmm, don't know, I think there are some export options, the latest version definitely supports exports to docbook
[01:43] <heno> How much existing data do we have that needs to be transfered? will we still use the wiki for much of it?
[01:43] <pips1> so, what do we do now... i expected some more of the usual suspects to be here.. including the documentation folk, ...
[01:45] <heno> The drupal solution looks fine to me (though I don't know much about the technical aspects)
[01:45] <pips1> heno, I think the wiki will still be used for much of the free flowing user contributions, but the point of the official site is to give newbies a nice base to get started, and offer ONE place for that... i.e. there is an forum on the site.... 
[01:45] <heno> I'd be happy to give advice on the layout and skinning of it
[01:45] <pips1> heno, cool
[01:46] <JaneW> ok, so do we have a verdict?
[01:46] <heno> pips1: right real new newbies seem to like forums
[01:46] <pips1> highvoltage, you have gone a bit quiet
[01:46] <JaneW> shall we have a quick vote?
[01:46] <highvoltage> sorry, multitasking
[01:46] <pips1> the four of us will vote? :-)
[01:46] <JaneW> or does anyone want to represent Moin quickly, to be fair?
[01:47] <JaneW> I think let's vote here, then send results to mailing list
[01:47] <pips1> what happened to supporter no. 1?
[01:47] <pips1> mhz
[01:47] <pips1> ?
[01:47] <highvoltage> one question, kind of in the defense of moin
[01:47] <JaneW> if there is no outcry the vote stands...
[01:47] <JaneW> pips1: I dunno
[01:47] <highvoltage> what will happen to all the existing moin pages, will we keep them, and continue to use the moin for the wiki
[01:47] <highvoltage> and keep both? or just have the drupal site?
[01:48] <JaneW> well the ubuntu wiki is moin...
[01:48] <JaneW> and we tag onto that
[01:48] <JaneW> it's merged
[01:48] <JaneW> so I guess it has to stay moin...
[01:48] <highvoltage> so if we use drupal, we use both the druap site and moin?
[01:48] <pips1> highvoltage, I think we should have the wiki as a place for community contributions from more experienced folk
[01:49] <JaneW> we need ppl to be able to search the ubuntu pages for support
[01:49] <highvoltage> in that case, we have very little to loose, becaulse we'll have the functionality of both
[01:49] <JaneW> highvoltage: right, it;s just that we have to maintain both
[01:49] <pips1> highvoltage, yep
[01:49] <JaneW> which could be an issue
[01:49] <pips1> JaneW, yep
[01:49] <highvoltage> in that case, i'm all for the drupal site
[01:49] <JaneW> unless you drupal folk do it as you say :))
[01:49] <JaneW> ok, let the voting begin
[01:50] <JaneW> all in favor of Drupal say +1
[01:50] <highvoltage> +1
[01:50] <heno> I will officially abstain so that mhz doesn't loose all faih in me :)
[01:50] <pips1> highvoltage, but to be clear, the current edubuntu site content (locked pages) will be moved to drupal, and only the open wiki part will be kept at wiki.ubuntu.com
[01:50] <pips1> right?
[01:51] <highvoltage> pips1: yes, the locked pages
[01:51] <heno> sounds right
[01:51] <pips1> +1
[01:51] <pips1> :-)
[01:51] <JaneW> anyone else?
[01:51] <pips1> you?
[01:51] <JaneW> ogra: ?
[01:51] <pips1> ogra, ping!
[01:52] <JaneW> I like the idea of drupal
[01:52] <JaneW> but moin seems safer (yet somehow less exciting)
[01:52] <JaneW> ok so far 2 to Drupal
[01:52] <ogra> pong
[01:52] <ogra> morning, sorry, had a late night
[01:52] <pips1> JaneW, you said it yourself in the mail you sent out, before voting on drupal vs. moin, we need to decided on who is the main person responsible...
[01:53] <pips1> :-)
[01:53] <JaneW> all in favour of Moin say +2 (just so it's dfferent)
[01:53] <JaneW> pips1: right, so who will take ownership?
[01:53] <pips1> JaneW, that is so far out, your voting technique
[01:53] <JaneW> heno/ highvoltage/ pips1/ ogra / mhz: ??^^
[01:54] <JaneW> pips1: yeah sorry I didn't think it through very carefully... *blush*
[01:54] <heno> I still think Moin is a better choice, but it does take some care and feeding when used as a CMS
[01:54] <highvoltage> i can take ownership
[01:54] <JaneW> ok for Drupal say Drupal+1, for Moin say Moin+1
[01:54] <highvoltage> sorry, i've had some interruptions. aaagh! there's the phone again
[01:54] <JaneW> highvoltage: will you manage it? I mean can spare the time?
[01:55] <pips1> highvoltage, good stuff!!!
[01:55] <pips1> applause! please
[01:55] <JaneW> pips1: and are you commiting to help?
[01:55] <pips1> JaneW, sure, as I said, i'm glad to help
[01:55] <JaneW> *bounce*
[01:56] <JaneW> well then it's up to you and highvoltage really
[01:56] <JaneW> and you both said drupal
[01:56] <highvoltage> JaneW: at least for the next month or so, yes
[01:56] <highvoltage> JaneW: after that, if things get as busy again as they were recently, i'll find a replacement
[01:56] <pips1> highvoltage, you seem rather uncertain...
[01:57] <highvoltage> pips1: it's definately something i want to do
[01:57] <highvoltage> pips1: and i have time now
[01:57] <pips1> ok
[01:57] <JaneW> highvoltage: well then we will take it now
[01:57] <highvoltage> pips1: once most of the site is up, the maintenance won't be so much
[01:57] <heno> It looks ike the spread firefox theme can be modified fairly easily to look edubuntu-ish
[01:58] <JaneW> however if you 2 vanish and mhz and heno are left 'holding the baby' I will hunt you both down.. ok?
[01:58] <highvoltage> heno: i saw the same thing
[01:58] <heno> change the header image and some colours
[01:58] <highvoltage> JaneW: yes, that's fine with me
[01:58] <pips1> highvoltage, yeah, getting the site up is the greatest effort, but I think the *content* needs constant encouragement... 
[01:58] <JaneW> heh, cool
[01:58] <highvoltage> heno: i think it will look even nicer than the real ubuntu theme, since the sff theme is so nice and smooth, i'm downloading it now to play with it
[01:58] <JaneW> ogra: you ok with this?
[01:59] <highvoltage> pips1: yes, you're right, i think we can manage it by having weekly website meetings, and managing the site almost like the docteam does with it's documentation
[01:59] <ogra> i'm ok with everything you decide here, the people who have to work with it count ...
[01:59] <JaneW> ok, we can't change our minds again on this.
[01:59] <highvoltage> ie, set regular, small achievable goals, etc.
[01:59] <JaneW> so the final verdict is Drupal
[02:00] <JaneW> and highvoltage will make sure it gets done, and pips1 is going to help
[02:00] <JaneW> agreed?
[02:00] <highvoltage> yes
[02:00] <Yagisan> I know I have nothing to do with this - but are either drupal or moin in main ?
[02:00] <ogra> one thing we should make sure is that we now *really* have a final decision ... we jumped back and forth with this topic ...
[02:00] <highvoltage> pips1: i think they (us) should be fine, since the moin site will remain
[02:00] <Yagisan> because I would not want to track security issues if eiter are not
[02:00] <heno> often the act of making a decision and getting on with it is more important than what the actual choice is
[02:01] <heno> So, I think this is a good thing
[02:01] <highvoltage> ok, so it's drupal, I'm emailing znarl on it, and that's the final word!
[02:01] <Yagisan> s/eiter/either
[02:01] <pips1> ok, fine
[02:02] <pips1> Yagisan, don't know about moin, but drupal isn't in main
[02:02] <pips1> highvoltage, I recommend the drupal book that has come out not long ago
[02:02] <JaneW> I thin we did this democratically and we did give ppl notice of the meeting so they can't complain
[02:03] <JaneW> I'll send a follow-up note to the mailing list
[02:03] <heno> yep, good meeting. Thanks for inviting :)
[02:03] <pips1> JaneW, yes, thanks!
[02:03] <highvoltage> thanks JaneW 
[02:03] <JaneW> highvoltage: I have no idea what our dapper artwork will look like, but I like the current colour scheme etc that we have, so can you guys work with that
[02:03] <pips1> heno, thanks for coming too! see you!
[02:04] <JaneW> thanks heno, I appreciate your input
[02:04] <JaneW> it got frgotten today, and now my stomach is reminding me
[02:05] <pips1> same here
[02:05] <highvoltage> JaneW: on that, it's definate that a professional is doing the artwork, right?
[02:05] <pips1> highvoltage, so you definitely have some time this month, right?
[02:06] <pips1> highvoltage, when can we get started? now? :-)
[02:07] <pips1> (well, after lunch)
[02:07] <highvoltage> pips1: yes. i'm downloading drupal for local testing, and i'm sending that mail to KArl
[02:07] <pips1> cool
[02:07] <highvoltage> pips1: i'm aiming to have a proto.edubuntu.org up by thursday
[02:07] <pips1> nice
[02:07] <highvoltage> pips1: i will escalate pesting levels accordingly to get it done ;)
[02:07] <pips1> hehe
[02:08] <Yagisan> pesting - oh no. sounds bad ;
[02:08] <Yagisan> is tha like being a pest
[02:08] <Yagisan> ?
[02:08] <pips1> highvoltage, what's your preferred way of communicating? here on irc or mails?
[02:08] <Yagisan> gah - birthday girl is hitting the keyboard
[02:09] <highvoltage> pips1: irc, unless i'm marked as away, then jabber and e-mail is best.
[02:09] <highvoltage> jabber is best even when i'm away, since messages will be kept until i log on
[02:09] <highvoltage> Yagisan: on edubuntu, i hope!
[02:10] <pips1> ah, jabber, haven't used that before, what client are you using for that?
[02:10] <Yagisan> highvoltage: she just turned 2, and no - she's on ubuntu proper
[02:10] <JaneW> highvoltage: yes we will have some prof work, one screensave, one splashscreen 9I think) and a CD civer design
[02:11] <pips1> Yagisan, happy birthday to your daughter :-)
[02:12] <Yagisan> thank you pips1
[02:14] <highvoltage> Yagisan: yes, happy birthday to your daughter!
[02:15] <highvoltage> JaneW: and LDM theme?
[02:17] <JaneW> LDM?
[02:18] <Yagisan> Ltsp Display Manager
[02:18] <ogra> JaneW, you should really test our product :P
[02:18] <divansantana> ogra: Hi its Divan again.
[02:19] <ogra> highvoltage, i think we can go with the colorset from gdm (whichever that finally will be) and just stick the logo on top ...
[02:19] <divansantana> I am loving this LTSP in Kubuntu!
[02:19] <ogra> (as it is now)
[02:19] <JaneW> ogra: lol
[02:19] <divansantana> Internal is loving it too.
[02:19] <JaneW> ogra: I have it on my laptop
[02:19] <Yagisan> JaneW: lies ! ;)
[02:20] <JaneW> want a screenshot? :P
[02:20] <ogra> JaneW, but you urgently need a LTSP lab .... (at least to decide about ldm themes) ;)
[02:20] <Yagisan> JaneW: of LDM sure :)
[02:20] <JaneW> I have even stopped putting picture of my kids as the wall paper, in favor of the edubuntu girl
[02:20] <ogra> heh
[02:21] <JaneW> but yes I need to see LTSP-proper in action
[02:21] <divansantana> ogra: Only problem is display manager (kdm/sdm/ldm - not sure??) is not sending out/accepting broadcasts XDMCP requests.Should I enable it in kdm file or xdm or ldm or neither?
[02:21] <JaneW> ogra: !
[02:21] <Yagisan> JaneW: your poor kids. I tried to attach mine to the screen, but the bluetac isn't strong enough
[02:21] <ogra> divansantana, ubuntu ltsp doesnt use xdmcp at all
[02:21] <JaneW> Yagisan: use super glue!
[02:21] <Yagisan> divansantana: it is not supposed to send XDMCP request. that is not used
[02:21] <ogra> divansantana, ldm uses a ssh tunnel ... 
[02:22] <highvoltage> ogra: that sounds good (what you described as ldm theme)
[02:22] <Yagisan> JaneW: I need something non-toxic, mum might want them back one day
[02:22] <ogra> Yagisan, yes, mustard is way easier to get on the screen than girls :)
[02:22] <divansantana> ogra:Ok, the old LTSP thin clients booted off a knoppix CD which simply search for any X servers and connects to it via etherboot i think. Can Ubuntu LTSP do the same?
[02:22] <JaneW> Yagisan: ok, peanut butter and jam/jelly
[02:23] <highvoltage> JaneW: let me know when you're in at the office again
[02:23] <divansantana> At the moment get a gray screen with X cursor. But if boot off PXE works fine.
[02:23] <highvoltage> JaneW: i can always arrange a demo for you :)
[02:23] <JaneW> highvoltage: will do - thanks!
[02:23] <JaneW> highvoltage: were you affected by the power outage yesterday?
[02:24] <ogra> highvoltage, you noted that ldm already includes a edubuntu theme ?
[02:24] <highvoltage> JaneW: yes, so i finally started reading Free Culture
[02:24] <JaneW> highvoltage: http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20060220102611846C246718 I was wondering if I would be able to work today, we were off the whole day yesterday...
[02:24] <Yagisan> ogra: but girls look better ;) (her brother will be upset about that)
[02:25] <ogra> Yagisan, heh
[02:25] <highvoltage> ogra: not yet, this weekend i played with flight3, and when i wanted to play with a thin client on it, our power went out.
[02:25] <highvoltage> grrrrr...
[02:25] <JaneW> ogra: you are a freak
[02:25] <ogra> JaneW, why ? 
[02:26] <zakame> evening edubunteros! :D
[02:26] <ogra> hey zakame 
[02:26] <highvoltage> JaneW: geez. this is the biggest power problem we've ever had
[02:26] <JaneW> ogra: nm, I read your comment again and now I understand, re the mustard ;)
[02:26] <JaneW> highvoltage: nod
[02:26] <zakame> hello ogra ! :D
[02:26] <ogra> JaneW, ah, kbecause i put mustard on my desk ... yes :)
[02:27] <JaneW> ogra: I though you were saying you prefered mustart to girls
[02:27] <ogra> lol
[02:27] <JaneW> tart? make that tard
[02:27] <Yagisan> JaneW: what were *you* thinking - naughty girl
[02:27] <JaneW> lol
[02:27] <ogra> JaneW, really.... there are girls in this world where i'd prefer mustard ... :)
[02:27] <JaneW> haha
[02:27] <ogra> if its good mustrad ...
[02:27] <Yagisan> ogra: I feel that looking at the locals ...
[02:28] <highvoltage> we should have a quotes.edubuntu.org for some of the things said in this channel, that mustard thing is real funny!
[02:28] <ogra> Yagisan, oh, what good choices of local mustard are there in sydney ? 
[02:28] <Yagisan> highvoltage: expect me in it at least once a week
[02:29] <divansantana> ogra:Ok, the old LTSP thin clients booted off a knoppix CD which simply search for any X servers and connects to it via etherboot i think. Can Ubuntu LTSP do the same?
[02:29] <divansantana> At the moment get a gray screen with X cursor. But if boot off PXE works fine.
[02:29] <divansantana> Sorry to but you Oliver, just not sure how to do that
[02:29] <Yagisan> ogra: well I like Australian mustard, nice and savoury, but Hot English is nice with Japanese food if you can't find Wasabi
[02:30] <ogra> divansantana, seems you run the ltsp.org classic ltsp ... that has not much to do with our ltsp implementation ... i'd guess you look at wiki.ltsp.org ...
[02:31] <Yagisan> but the "chicks" here - they only exist in the photoshopped pages of mens magazines - because I sure as hell don't see them outside
[02:31] <jsgotangco> nurse i need help!!!
[02:31] <ogra> Yagisan, ah, i thought you talked about the local mustard, indeed you meant the girls :)
[02:32] <Yagisan> divansantana: no - ubuntu ltsp does not work like that. that is an insecure method.
[02:32] <divansantana> ogra:I didn't do that implemtation at all, i promise. I install kubuntu breezy 5.10 and apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone & didnt run any ltsp-admin or whatever
[02:32] <pips1> highvoltage, I tried sending you a message on jabber but no luck... 
[02:33] <divansantana> ogra: This is only command I have run, ltsp-update-sshkeys could that break it?
[02:33] <ogra> divansantana, ah, moment ... you run a ubuntu ltsp .... and for testing you booted the client off a knoppix CD ?
[02:33] <ogra> divansantana, nope
[02:33] <highvoltage> pips1: i'm signed in and everything seems okay this side.
[02:34] <pips1> highvoltage, I just signed up, my jabber name is pips1
[02:34] <Yagisan> divansantana: I wrote an etherboot/pxe howto on the wiki. I'm sure ogra remembers the link
[02:34] <highvoltage> pips1: pips1@?
[02:34] <pips1> yes
[02:34] <ogra> but you wont have luck with knoppix ... its using a local system based on, well, knoppix ... and will only work with old ltsp ...
[02:34] <highvoltage> pips1: @ what? @jabber.org?
[02:34] <ogra> can your users login on the server directly  ?
[02:34] <Yagisan> divansantana: just make pxe compatable boot cd images, and it will work fine
[02:34] <pips1> oh, yes, jabber.org (I think)
[02:35] <pips1> sorry, new to this...
[02:35] <ogra> Yagisan, i think his clients do PXE as i understood the above there is only a login problem with the default setup
[02:35] <highvoltage> no problem
[02:35] <divansantana> ogra: yes, they can. and via FreeNX and via PXE from thin clients, just some NICs/BIOS dont support PXE
[02:35] <highvoltage> pips1: a jabber ID looks like an e-mail address, eg: highvoltage@jabberafrica.org or jonathan@jabber.org
[02:35] <ogra> divansantana, ah ...
[02:35] <Yagisan> ah
[02:36] <divansantana> ogra: Maybe like you said its because of knoppix doesnt work on ubuntu LTSP. I will try boot CD as per the wiki
[02:36] <ogra> divansantana, so Yagisans advise was right ... grab his howto and make boot CDs/floppies, whatever 
[02:36] <ogra> yup
[02:36] <divansantana> Yagisan: Thanks I think it was your wiki that I have been reading.
[02:36] <ogra> that will solve it ... your etherboot clients will behave like PXE clients with it ...
[02:36] <divansantana> ogra: K will try that!! Thanks you TOO very much!! 
[02:37] <divansantana> ogra: awesome I hope so!! Thanks as always!!
[02:37] <ogra> :)
[02:38] <ogra> just dont break it ;) its the second most read howto after the install notes ... i even recommend it in #ltsp :)
[02:39] <highvoltage> ogra: wow!
[02:40] <Yagisan> ogra: I won't break it. But I *am* tempted to put my name back on it ;)
[02:42] <highvoltage> you know you spend too much time on IRC when you type /quit in gnome-terminal to close it.
[02:43] <highvoltage> although, i've pressed ^d in IRC a few times too :)
[02:45] <highvoltage> cheers, #edubuntu!
[02:46] <Yagisan> hmm
[02:46] <Yagisan> Is it possible to set up a system wide wine install ?
[02:47] <Yagisan> it seems tedious to symlink magic all .wine directories
[03:06] <bob> hey again ogra
[03:07] <bob> what was that file i had to edit to set the screen res for clients?
[03:43] <tuhl> ping ogra
[03:56] <bob> hey again ogra
[03:56] <bob> what was that file i had to edit to set the screen res for clients?
[04:07] <spacey> mhz: ping
[04:07] <spacey> :)
[04:08] <tuhl> ogra_: ping
[04:09] <ogra_> tuhl, pong
[04:10] <mhz> spacey: pong
[04:10] <mhz> hehe, lots of ping pong's
[04:11] <mhz> JaneW: hi there, already recovered 100%
[04:11] <JaneW> mhz: hi, you (or me?)
[04:12] <mhz> JaneW: you
[04:12] <JaneW> mhz: just packing up - going to gym shortly
[04:12] <JaneW> mhz: yes I am much better thanks
[04:12] <mhz> JaneW: oh, nice!
[04:12] <JaneW> mhz: I can't fully shake it though - odd
[04:12] <mhz> JaneW: any news from "your boss" ?
[04:12] <mhz> JaneW: LOL
[04:12] <JaneW> mhz: nada
[04:12] <mhz> :(
[04:12] <mhz> well, shall I just forget about his participation?
[04:13] <mhz> and move on?
[04:16] <spacey> mhz: i have a stupid question ;p
[04:16] <mhz> JaneW: ?
[04:16] <mhz> spacey: no question is ever stupid
[04:16] <spacey> if you ask someone his name in spanish? Como te llamas?
[04:16] <spacey> :P
[04:17] <spacey> tu
[04:17] <mhz> spacey: como te llamas? [it's perfect] 
[04:17] <spacey> ok
[04:17] <spacey> great
[04:17] <spacey> :P
[04:17] <spacey> thanks
[04:17] <spacey> thanks senor hernandez
[04:17] <mhz> spacey: como se llama? [it's for people you want to show special respect, like older people] 
[04:18] <spacey> i need spanish special characters ;p
[04:18] <mhz> spacey: yeah, but I dont use them unless I am writing docs or wiki
[04:21] <spacey> and if you reply to that? Soy spacey, ?Que es? (and you?)
[04:21] <spacey> :p
[04:21] <spacey> never thought i would abuse edubuntu for my spanish lessons ;p
[04:22] <mhz> spacey: Soy Mauricio / Me llamo Mauricio / Mauricio
[04:23] <mhz> spacey: y tu? / y tu como te llamas? / cual es tu nombre?
[04:24] <spacey> cool
[04:24] <spacey> thanks :)
[04:24] <mhz> spacey: no thanks! U$500 cash!
[04:24] <Yagisan> ripoff!!
[04:25] <mhz> :D
[04:25] <spacey> grazias :p
[04:25] <spacey> & sue me ;p
[04:26] <mhz> lol
[04:26] <Yagisan> spacey: got enough assets to make it worth our while ;)
[04:26] <Yagisan> class action - quick lets clean him out ;)
[04:27] <spacey> i got insurance for laywer costs ;p
[04:27] <spacey> Yagisan: too bad i don't live in usa ;p
[04:28] <Yagisan> spacey: yeah, I should have checked your info first
[04:28] <Yagisan> spacey: .nl right ?
[04:28] <spacey> fortunately dutch law system is not as crappy as usa ;p
[04:29] <spacey> yeah
[04:29] <mhz> .oO(these people are nuts)
[04:29] <Yagisan> spacey: one day you to will sign a "free" trade agreement and have to import that crap wholesale
[04:29] <spacey> hehe
[04:30] <spacey> the day I emigrate
[04:31] <Yagisan> spacey: down under the politicions where smoking some bad stuff and signed a FTA with the USA. now the USA is trying to abolish our cheap medicines
[04:32] <Yagisan> spacey: so people here can die, if they can afford inflated medicine costs from USA based companies
[04:32] <Yagisan> s/can/can't
[04:32] <Yagisan> bah s/can afford/can't afford
[04:32] <spacey> i don't think EU knows what Free Trade is
[04:33] <Yagisan> spacey: USA doesn't. It thinks it means it can sell to you, but you can't sell to it
[04:33] <spacey> :>
[04:33] <spacey> sucks
[04:39] <spacey> ask me in half a year if i like the people
[04:39] <spacey> i'll go there on holiday this summer :)
[04:39] <Yagisan> spacey: I've only met the ones here on holiday, they seem nice
[04:39] <spacey> :>
[04:40] <spacey> i never go to amsterdam, so i never meet them
[04:41] <Yagisan> spacey: although I have no intention of going there - they like to arrest security expects on dmca clauses when you arrive
[04:41] <Yagisan> s/expects/experts
[04:41] <Yagisan> spacey: amsterdam, isn't that where pot is legal ?
[04:44] <spacey> Yagisan: its legal in the entire netherlands however amsterdam is popular with the tourists
[04:47] <Yagisan> spacey: it seems to cause mental issues if you have too much of the stuff
[04:47] <spacey> depends 
[04:47] <Yagisan> spacey: I know/knew some people that it seems to have stuffed with their heads
[04:48] <spacey> after you smoke it
[04:48] <spacey> it has quite some effect ofcourse
[04:48] <Yagisan> I can be around people smoking it, the fumes cause me to get bad headaches
[04:48] <Yagisan> s/can/can't
[04:49] <spacey> however on the long term it shouldn't. Unless you have some mental problems.
[04:50] <spacey> if you have some mental diseases its not so wise. Especially if you already have high risk of getting mental disease. Smoking it a lot in your youth is a really bad thing.
[04:51] <spacey> s/youth/teens
[04:52] <Yagisan> spacey: yeah, the sperm donor that knocked my mother up (well, you can't be a father if you aren't there) was a real big pot head when he was a teen. He's now rather odd
[04:53] <Yagisan> spacey: I'm rather surprised I made it, because it does wonders for your sperm count
[04:54] <spacey> well people can be odd without pot as well
[04:54] <jsgotangco> err you really had to be so detailed wit the sperm donor bit?
[04:55] <Yagisan> true, but like alcohol, it seems too much is not a good idea
[04:55] <spacey> imo its almost the same as alcohol
[04:55] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: well, she didn't go to  a sperm donor, but he was never there, so he may as well have been
[04:56] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: there a lesson there. Never forget your kids, or one day they will kick your arse.
[04:56] <spacey> imo you miss the good stuff in life if you smoke pot too much
[04:56] <spacey> and it makes you lazy
[04:56] <Yagisan> or drink to much
[04:57] <spacey> although there are exceptions
[04:57] <spacey> mostly depends on how strong you will/personality is.
[04:57] <jsgotangco> oh well
[04:57] <jsgotangco> later
[04:57] <Yagisan> ./me casts +10 stubborn bastard on himself
[04:58] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: catch you later
[05:00] <Yagisan> spacey: One day I'd like to visit .nl with the missus while traveling around europe. Bit hard to do it with small kids though
[05:00] <spacey> hm yeah
[05:00] <spacey> well
[05:01] <spacey> have to wait till they grow up
[05:01] <spacey> :>
[05:01] <spacey> i guess
[05:01] <spacey> time to mentally prepare for spanish lesson with some anime ;p
[05:01] <spacey> and then i'm off
[05:01] <spacey> cya 
[05:01] <Yagisan> cya spacey
[05:08] <Yagisan> night all
[08:48] <mhz> ogra: I have been invited to talk about current dev. status of dapper, the way Ubuntu community works, how to join teams, and the areas which need more volutneers on regular basis.
[08:48] <mhz> ogra: obviously , I only have little ideas on those subjects. Do you have a presentation about this, so I can use it as base?
[08:49] <Burgwork> mhz, there are some presentations on the wiki you can freely steal from
[08:53] <mhz> Burgwork: yeah, I know, it is just faster to ask before reading one by one (if they were in the wiki format, they would be easy to track and find :D )