| === robotgeek goes to tidy up wiki page for meeting tommorow | ||
| robotgeek | Burgwork: ping | 12:07 |
|---|---|---|
| Burgwork | robotgeek, pong | 12:13 |
| robotgeek | Burgwork: would you be willing to cheer for me in the meeting tommorow? | 12:13 |
| === robotgeek is applying for membership, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VenkatRaghavan | ||
| Burgwork | robotgeek, what time is it? | 12:15 |
| robotgeek | 20.00 utc, 21'st | 12:15 |
| Burgwork | robotgeek, yes I can, as that is noon here | 12:17 |
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| robotgeek | Burgwork: cool, thanks! | 12:17 |
| Burgwork | robotgeek, can you ping me when the meeting starts? | 12:18 |
| robotgeek | Burgwork: sure, will do :) | 12:18 |
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| LaserJock | hi Madpilot | 03:35 |
| Madpilot | hi LaserJock | 03:36 |
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| robotgeek | Madpilot: ping | 05:50 |
| Madpilot | robotgeek: hi | 06:01 |
| robotgeek | Madpilot: just reminding, CC meeting tommorow :) | 06:02 |
| Madpilot | yeah 2000Z - I'm in a RL meeting at exactly the same time :( | 06:02 |
| robotgeek | RL? | 06:02 |
| Madpilot | real life | 06:03 |
| robotgeek | ah.. | 06:03 |
| robotgeek | no problems :) | 06:03 |
| robotgeek | Burg work is cheering | 06:03 |
| Madpilot | yeah, I wanted to be there - my name is up for op on #ubuntu, for my sins | 06:03 |
| Madpilot | :P | 06:03 |
| robotgeek | so is Seveas, nalioth | 06:05 |
| robotgeek | and anyone else from #ubuntu-doc :) | 06:05 |
| Madpilot | good luck with membership, anyway - I'll be talking w/ seveas later, and I'll put a word in for you - I'm sure mdke already has | 06:06 |
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| robotgeek | thanks Madpilot | 06:06 |
| LaserJock | robotgeek: hmm, I think I might have a meeting 2000-2100 but it might be short. I'll try to drop in on the CC meeting if I can | 06:12 |
| robotgeek | thanks LaserJock | 06:12 |
| robotgeek | LaserJock: i'll probably ping you when the time comes :) | 06:14 |
| LaserJock | robotgeek: what is the URL for your wiki page? | 06:21 |
| robotgeek | LaserJock: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/VenkatRaghavan | 06:22 |
| bhuvan | robotgeek: best wishes! | 06:25 |
| robotgeek | thanks bhuvan | 06:25 |
| bhuvan | robotgeek: i prefer to include links to your patches in your wiki page | 06:25 |
| robotgeek | bhuvan: nice idea! | 06:25 |
| bhuvan | robotgeek: thus, the approver may be more comfortable | 06:25 |
| bhuvan | you may get the links from ubuntudoc-commits mailing lists | 06:25 |
| robotgeek | yes, i am subscribed :) | 06:26 |
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| === robotgeek hunts | ||
| EricNeon | hi | 06:26 |
| LaserJock | hi EricNeon | 06:27 |
| Madpilot | hi EricNeon | 06:27 |
| EricNeon | :) | 06:27 |
| EricNeon | I am writing a mail to Mark to introduce the Ubuntu-cn team | 06:29 |
| Madpilot | cn? | 06:30 |
| EricNeon | we will speed up for dapper release | 06:30 |
| EricNeon | CN, Ubuntu China | 06:30 |
| EricNeon | last week ,we have a meeting with mark and yaste and hande | 06:31 |
| Madpilot | cool - Mark was just in China, I think | 06:31 |
| EricNeon | we talk about community construction and dapper release party | 06:33 |
| EricNeon | they ask me mail a plan to him | 06:34 |
| robotgeek | bhuvan: more work for me :) | 06:35 |
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| robotgeek | bhuvan: thanks, done | 06:58 |
| bhuvan | robotgeek: ok | 06:58 |
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| bhuvan | robotgeek: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc-commits/2006-February/001913.html | 07:04 |
| robotgeek | bhuvan: hmm, my email client missed that :) | 07:05 |
| robotgeek | thanks :) | 07:05 |
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| === bhuvan is upgrading to dapper | ||
| LaserJock_away | lol, I'm already thinking about dapper+1 | 07:29 |
| Madpilot | bhuvan: braver than I am :P | 07:29 |
| robotgeek | heh, i am on dapper and lovin it | 07:30 |
| LaserJock_away | I've been on dapper since about Oct. | 07:30 |
| bhuvan | robotgeek, great! | 07:30 |
| robotgeek | bhuvan: my airport extreme works, i just moved my kmail to dapper too. | 07:30 |
| === robotgeek is reminded of another wiki page he contributed to, lol | ||
| LaserJock_away | so how do you guys write for dapper? Do you have dapper installed on a spare box or something? | 07:31 |
| robotgeek | LaserJock_away: yeah, i just use dapper | 07:32 |
| Madpilot | LaserJock_away: most of the apps I've written stuff for aren't changing much for Dapper, from what I've heard | 07:32 |
| robotgeek | lots of ppl use qemu/whatever | 07:32 |
| Madpilot | Is there a Flight4 LiveCD? | 07:32 |
| LaserJock_away | yeah | 07:32 |
| LaserJock_away | it should have espresso on it so you can install from the liveCD | 07:33 |
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| === Madpilot starts torrent of the Flight4 LiveCD | ||
| LaserJock_away | hmm, I might try it out too. I haven't used any of the Flight .isos | 07:36 |
| jsgotangco | my hibernate is borked | 07:37 |
| robotgeek | jsgotangco: uggh | 07:37 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 07:37 |
| === robotgeek is confused with hibernate vs sleep | ||
| jsgotangco | the joys of laptop testing | 07:37 |
| jsgotangco | robotgeek, sleep resides in memory | 07:38 |
| jsgotangco | hibernate goes to disk | 07:38 |
| robotgeek | ah, i don't think i've ever hibernated | 07:38 |
| robotgeek | macs don't hibernate, lol | 07:39 |
| LaserJock_away | I haven't been bold enough to try Ubuntu on my laptop. Dapper on a desktop no problem, but laptops just scare me ;-) | 07:41 |
| LaserJock_away | robotgeek: they don't, my iMac does I think | 07:41 |
| robotgeek | LaserJock_away: my power button doesn't work, closing the lid sleeps well, however | 07:42 |
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| mdke_ | morning | 08:51 |
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| Madpilot | mdke_: you going to make the CC meeting? | 08:57 |
| mdke_ | maybe, maybe not | 08:58 |
| Madpilot | robotgeek is going for membership, is all | 08:59 |
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| mdke_ | yeah, saw it in the scrollback | 09:01 |
| jsgotangco | hmmm CC would be 4am on my side :/ | 09:01 |
| mdke_ | his membership is so obviously a cinch that our presence is unnecessary, but I will leave a message if I can't get there | 09:01 |
| mdke_ | Madpilot, couple of TODOs on the desktopguide I thought of recently | 09:03 |
| mdke_ | i added a blank section for how to use the menu editor | 09:03 |
| mdke_ | that way we can point to that, instead of having those ugly sections about adding a desktop file in /usr/share/applications | 09:04 |
| mdke_ | those are truly awful | 09:04 |
| Madpilot | true - I'm torrenting the Flight4 LiveCD right now, so I'll play with it tomorrow and write some of that | 09:06 |
| mdke_ | rocking | 09:06 |
| mdke_ | the other thing was maybe we could include something on apt-get in the add-applications section | 09:07 |
| Madpilot | does the server-guide cover apt-get? Could we link to their docs? | 09:07 |
| mdke_ | not easily i don't think | 09:10 |
| mdke_ | the problem is that the guide will be both on the system and on the internet, the links might break | 09:10 |
| mdke_ | we could use their code though | 09:10 |
| mdke_ | if its friendly enough | 09:10 |
| Madpilot | stuff written for server admins might be a bit much for newbies to the CLI... | 09:17 |
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| Madpilot | I'll apply the same test to it I did to vim: If I understand it, I'll write about it. If I don't, forget it. :P | 09:18 |
| mdke_ | :) | 09:23 |
| mdke_ | -> work | 09:24 |
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| Kamping_At_Hut | is there anything on printer sharing in ubuntu breezy in the help? the wiki and help.ubuntu dont seem to have anything | 10:00 |
| Madpilot | Kamping_At_Hut: there are wiki articles on XP->Ubuntu and Ubuntu->XP printer sharing | 10:00 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | Madpilot: im after ubuntu -> debian sharing, same deal? | 10:01 |
| Madpilot | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkPrintingFromWinXP | 10:01 |
| Madpilot | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WindowsXPPrinter | 10:01 |
| Madpilot | no idea, but that should be easier than win->Linux | 10:01 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | i dont think it is ;) because of the cups mangling in ubuntu | 10:02 |
| Madpilot | hmm, a quick wiki search only turns up specs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrinterSharing | 10:02 |
| Madpilot | not a good sign | 10:02 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | mm. sounds like your finding the same stuff as me :/ | 10:03 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | nothing on break-my-ubuntu either (aka ubuntuguide) | 10:04 |
| Madpilot | heh | 10:05 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | im sure there was a few lines of the config file you change and you could do sharing :/ *cant rememeber where he saw it * | 10:06 |
| === Kamping_At_Hut goes to talk to big brother (aka google) | ||
| Madpilot | check the other "we're too cool for the official wiki" wiki: http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/BreezyCust | 10:06 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | <grin> ok good idea | 10:06 |
| Madpilot | actually, some of the stuff there is pretty good - the Breezy eyecandy section, for example | 10:07 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | it may be good stuff, its just a pity it cant be with other good stuff : | 10:08 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | :| (damn keyboard with | in the wrong spot) | 10:08 |
| Madpilot | doesn't seem to be anything at gwos, either | 10:10 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | im going to try this http://occy.net/printing | 10:12 |
| mdke_ | some printing help would be useful | 10:12 |
| Madpilot | mdke_: can you start an email of "things it would be cool to get into the docs before Dapper string freeze"? | 10:13 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | <grin> how long is it utnill freeze? a month? | 10:13 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | *untill | 10:13 |
| Madpilot | about that | 10:13 |
| mdke_ | Madpilot, alright | 10:13 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | i can probably put my hand up for something, just depends on time restraints | 10:14 |
| Madpilot | Kamping_At_Hut: that printing url - "occy" rings faint bells - someone who shows up on #ubuntu or #ubuntu-offtopic sometimes, I think | 10:18 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | woot. it works | 10:21 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | *hugs cups, even ubuntus version* | 10:21 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | Madpilot: hm. ill check my logs then and see if it comes up | 10:22 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | Madpilot: yeh, he/she/it seems to show up a bit (lots of log entries) | 10:27 |
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| Kamping_At_Hut | brb. finding network calbe :/ | 10:27 |
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| mpt | UBUNTU DOCUMENT STORAGE FACILITY | 10:48 |
| mpt | INTRUDERS WILL BE PROSECUTED | 10:48 |
| jsgotangco | lol | 10:48 |
| jsgotangco | seriously... | 10:48 |
| mpt | There's way too much meta-ness in Ubuntu documentation generally | 10:49 |
| mpt | Like, using the word "documentation" | 10:49 |
| mpt | and the word "wiki" | 10:49 |
| mpt | and the word "user" | 10:49 |
| mpt | and "document" and "storage" and "facility" | 10:50 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | meta? | 10:50 |
| Madpilot | meta-ness? | 10:50 |
| mpt | meta-ness, i.e. writing about the writing rather than writing about the topic | 10:50 |
| Madpilot | ah, OK | 10:50 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | *blank look* | 10:51 |
| Madpilot | see also our ongoing efforts to get our wiki's UserDocumentation page into some sort of usable shape :P | 10:51 |
| mpt | Kamping_At_Hut, a simple example, there's a wiki page called "UserDocumentation" | 10:51 |
| mpt | not "HelpUsingUbuntu" or "UbuntuSupport" or something like that, but "UserDocumentation" | 10:52 |
| Kamping_At_Hut | mm. think i get it | 10:53 |
| Madpilot | as opposed to too much of the rest of the wiki, which is DeveloperDocumentation or ProjectDocumentation or some such... | 10:53 |
| mpt | Madpilot, yeah, separate wikis will help there | 10:53 |
| mpt | but it could still have been called "HelpUsingUbuntu" from the beginning | 10:54 |
| jsgotangco | we are all experts in the end | 10:54 |
| Madpilot | we can change the name when we migrate to the new server - there'll be lots of redirects going in anyway | 10:56 |
| mpt | well, on a separate help site, it can be called "/" :-) | 10:56 |
| Madpilot | yeah, that too :P | 10:57 |
| Madpilot | giving the main page a name does make it easier to link back to, though | 10:58 |
| Madpilot | Wikipedia uses Main_Page | 10:59 |
| mpt | to its eternal shame | 10:59 |
| mpt | hmm, I suppose that's a feature request for Moin | 11:00 |
| Madpilot | it's more descriptive than "Index", I guess | 11:00 |
| mpt | That the biggest text on <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page> is "Main Page" is stupid | 11:02 |
| mpt | It should be "Wikipedia" | 11:02 |
| Madpilot | bug in MediaWiki, I guess | 11:02 |
| mpt | Same goes for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ and "FrontPage" -- it's not a wiki about using Microsoft Web authoring tools! | 11:03 |
| Madpilot | bug in all wiki apps, then :P | 11:03 |
| mpt | http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ has it right | 11:03 |
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| mpt | ah, they don't repeat the title as a heading on any page | 11:04 |
| Madpilot | nice - so it *is* possible to seperate page name from title | 11:04 |
| Madpilot | actually, they do, kind of, but it's up in the grey header so it's less obvious | 11:05 |
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| mgalvin | anyone here have privs to make a wiki page immutable? | 03:27 |
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| mdke_ | mgalvin, no one does at all, here or not | 04:28 |
| mgalvin | mdke_: ah ok, thanks | 04:29 |
| mgalvin | just wondering b/c people keep ranting and/or making large modifications to DapperFlight4, i was looking for a way to prevent people from ranting on that page and such | 04:30 |
| mgalvin | not a big deal | 04:30 |
| jsgotangco | hmm | 04:30 |
| jsgotangco | how ugly does the <procedure> block render in yelp? | 04:30 |
| mdke_ | mgalvin, publish it on a web site rather than a wiki? | 04:32 |
| mdke_ | jsgotangco, it's fine, similar to orderedlist | 04:33 |
| jsgotangco | okay | 04:33 |
| === jsgotangco doing some finishing touches to gai before it gets evicted to svn | ||
| jsgotangco | s/to/from | 04:33 |
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| mgalvin | mdke_: that is a possibility | 04:47 |
| jsgotangco | heh that didn't look bad at all thanks | 04:51 |
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| robotgeek | jjesse: i just took a look at the adept guide, wasn't there something regarding the use of sudo for gui apps? | 05:16 |
| robotgeek | kdesu vs sudo, i.e. | 05:16 |
| jjesse | robotgeek: the adept guide unfortnatly hasn't been touched since breezy | 05:25 |
| jjesse | so i don'tk now how accurate it is | 05:25 |
| robotgeek | jjesse: hmm, okay. | 05:25 |
| jsgotangco | mgalvin: ping | 05:28 |
| FreakinNuts | robotgeek: There's something on the RootSudo wiki regarding sudo on graphical apps. | 05:43 |
| robotgeek | FreakinNuts: i'll take a look for the details, i think it might be wrong to use sudo for graphical apps | 05:47 |
| FreakinNuts | robotgeek: That's correct....you want to use something like gksudo or use the "Run Application As" feature that is implemented in Ubuntu. | 05:47 |
| FreakinNuts | kdesu in kubuntu. | 05:48 |
| === robotgeek will submit a patch for the Adept Guide :) | ||
| robotgeek | hmm, it's a one liner. | 05:49 |
| robotgeek | jjesse: will you correct it, or you want me to mail it to the list? | 05:50 |
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| robotgeek | Burgwork: ping | 08:47 |
| LaserJock | hi robotgeek, are you ready? | 08:49 |
| robotgeek | yeah, LaserJock :) | 08:49 |
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| robotgeek | LaserJock: meeting has not yet started, though | 08:49 |
| LaserJock | robotgeek: how long have you been contributing to Ubuntu? that is one of the main questions they will ask | 08:50 |
| robotgeek | since 2005-09-08. | 08:50 |
| LaserJock | robotgeek: good | 08:50 |
| robotgeek | :) | 08:51 |
| Burgwork | robotgeek, pong | 08:51 |
| robotgeek | Burgwork: CC in 8 minutes :) | 08:51 |
| LaserJock | hmm, is mdke going to be there? | 08:52 |
| Burgwork | robotgeek, already there | 08:52 |
| robotgeek | Burgwork: cool thanks! | 08:52 |
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| robotgeek | mdke_: ping | 09:12 |
| ompaul | wrt the wiku can the text and title search be merged that was what provoked my email? | 09:23 |
| Burgwork | ompaul, would be nice | 09:24 |
| ompaul | it is not obvious and I have 10 years + on web browsing | 09:24 |
| mdke_ | robotgeek, pong | 09:33 |
| robotgeek | mdke_: #ubuntu-meeting, betterwikispecs | 09:33 |
| robotgeek | or docs, rahter | 09:33 |
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| mdke | what are they talking about? | 09:36 |
| robotgeek | mdke: they kinda went tangent after the server issue | 09:37 |
| Madpilot | in -meeting? no idea, I just got in | 09:37 |
| mdke | oh | 09:37 |
| Madpilot | Burgwork raised his favourite piece of flamebait, "We should use MediaWiki instead of MoinMoin" :P | 09:38 |
| robotgeek | heh | 09:38 |
| Burgwork | no, I am raising why I think mediawiki is technically better suited to our tak | 09:38 |
| mdke | Burgwork, that's very helpful | 09:40 |
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| === Burgwork sends his laundry list of things we wants from a wiki to the list | ||
| Burgwork | mdke, are you being sarcastic? | 09:57 |
| mdke | not now, but i was yeah | 09:57 |
| Burgwork | mdke Burgwork, that's very helpful <-- that line | 09:58 |
| mdke | yes | 09:58 |
| Burgwork | figured, but wasn't certain | 09:58 |
| manicka | congrats robotgeek :) | 09:59 |
| mdke | i'm bummed I wasn't around to defend my spec :/ | 09:59 |
| === Kyral pounces on robotgeek | ||
| Kyral | 'bout time you bastard ;P | 10:00 |
| mdke | night all | 10:01 |
| Madpilot | later, mdke | 10:01 |
| LaserJoc1 | I'm just reading the CC backlog, so the general idea was that the current wiki is fine and we don't need a docteam wiki? | 10:03 |
| Burgwork | yes, that was the CCs idea | 10:03 |
| Madpilot | sounds like it :( | 10:04 |
| Madpilot | I missed the first part of the meeting, though | 10:04 |
| Burgwork | we simply need to sell the idea better | 10:05 |
| LaserJoc1 | hmmm, I thought we should move it from wiki to something else for that reason. It's sorta like "why do you need another wiki?" | 10:05 |
| Burgwork | they don't understand the value yet | 10:05 |
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| LaserJock | Burgwork: would showing the stages a doc would go through help? | 10:29 |
| === robotgeek gets back to work on KDG | ||
| Burgwork | LaserJock, sorry, don't understand | 10:31 |
| LaserJock | Burgwork: say something like, w.u.c --> gets cleaned up --> everybody likes --> new wiki ? Like what would the process be to get a new doc into the new wiki. | 10:33 |
| Burgwork | ah | 10:34 |
| Burgwork | the current idea is to migrate all docs, regardless of of state | 10:34 |
| LaserJock | really? I thought it was just going to be a few | 10:34 |
| === mdke comes back from his seething session | ||
| mdke | LaserJock, no, all docs | 10:34 |
| LaserJock | do we want all docs? | 10:35 |
| Burgwork | yes | 10:35 |
| LaserJock | like even MOTU/* ? | 10:35 |
| Burgwork | no, those are not docs | 10:35 |
| Burgwork | anything in CategoryDocumentation | 10:35 |
| === mdke nods | ||
| LaserJock | ahh, ok. that helps | 10:35 |
| LaserJock | ok, and then how is that different than the docteam repo work? (playing devil's advocate a little here) | 10:36 |
| mdke | because only a few people can access that | 10:37 |
| Madpilot | LaserJock: the wiki is far larger than any of our repo docs, and way more open | 10:37 |
| mdke | everyone would be able to edit the wiki | 10:37 |
| LaserJock | so then how is it different that the current wiki? | 10:37 |
| mdke | did you see the spec? | 10:37 |
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| LaserJock | yes, but not recently. | 10:38 |
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| Madpilot | we wouldn't have the specs, MOTU stuff, etc messing up the searches for actual docs | 10:38 |
| mdke | it would be different in two ways | 10:38 |
| mdke | 1, what Madpilot said, and 2, all the documentation would be in one place | 10:38 |
| LaserJock | BetterWikiDocs, right? | 10:38 |
| mdke | yes | 10:38 |
| LaserJock | but why wouldn't you just use namespace to do that? | 10:38 |
| LaserJock | or is that not practical | 10:39 |
| Madpilot | can MoinMoin do namespacing the same way MediaWiki can? | 10:39 |
| mdke | that doesn't help the search thing, and i am totally sold on having a single site which just does help | 10:39 |
| LaserJock | I'm just saying, why wouldn't you put all the docs under Documentation/ or something like that? that seems to seperate. | 10:40 |
| Burgwork | LaserJock, doesn't solve the searching issue | 10:40 |
| LaserJock | mdke: I think it is a great idea to have a single site for help. | 10:40 |
| Madpilot | got to run - work :P | 10:40 |
| Madpilot | see you all later | 10:40 |
| LaserJock | hmmm, but you can't just search within Documentation/* or CategoryDocumentation ? | 10:41 |
| mdke | what if you want to search somewhere else? | 10:41 |
| mdke | like for a spec | 10:41 |
| Burgwork | the problem of how do you guess what an anonymous user wants | 10:42 |
| Burgwork | the logged in users are pretty easy | 10:42 |
| LaserJock | I'd think we would be able to have some sore of drop-down menu of major catagories but I don't really know wiki stuff very well | 10:42 |
| mdke | you can't limit searches like that, unless you have a search box for each potential subject of the wiki | 10:42 |
| LaserJock | it seems like something like how forums are set up would do what you want as far as separation? | 10:43 |
| === mdke wants a single site, with nothing but documentation | ||
| Burgwork | don't see how the forums apply? | 10:43 |
| mdke | there is simply no point making the effort of trying to push lots of things into one box | 10:43 |
| LaserJock | Burgwork: like how there are subforums and you can search within subforums, that's all | 10:43 |
| mdke | especially since they bear no relation to each other | 10:43 |
| Burgwork | yes, but that is totally suboptimal | 10:44 |
| Burgwork | all forums are crap for actually getting useful information, to be honest | 10:44 |
| Burgwork | great for random chitchat | 10:44 |
| mdke | they are good for questions and answers | 10:44 |
| mdke | and bad as a reference tool | 10:44 |
| LaserJock | I'm not talking about making it a forum, but just have forum-like search features | 10:44 |
| === mdke repeats his box point | ||
| LaserJock | I agree | 10:45 |
| mdke | what's the value in having them on the wiki? | 10:45 |
| LaserJock | what? | 10:45 |
| mdke | docs | 10:45 |
| mdke | if there is some value, I'm prepared to weigh it against the value of having them on their own site | 10:45 |
| mdke | which is considerable :) | 10:45 |
| mdke | right now, I don't see any value in it | 10:45 |
| mdke | erm | 10:46 |
| Burgwork | there is very little intercommunication between doc wiki pages and non-doc wiki pages | 10:46 |
| === mdke rereads what he has written | ||
| mdke | damn my stream of consciousness | 10:46 |
| LaserJock | people can search across many different areas I suppose. Perhaps a spec has something to do with what you are looking for. How do you know that the user isn't interested in specs or MOTU docs, etc. | 10:46 |
| Burgwork | ergo, very few links to break and little referencing of the other area | 10:46 |
| mdke | LaserJock, if they are interested in that, they go to the wiki and search | 10:46 |
| Burgwork | LaserJock, that is the reason why we need another wiki | 10:46 |
| mdke | if they want documentation, they go to documentation and search | 10:47 |
| Burgwork | we don't know what they are searching for | 10:47 |
| LaserJock | but it isn't always so clear cut. How is the user to know whether they need w.u.c or h.u.c ? | 10:47 |
| Burgwork | they want help vs. they want to help Ubuntu | 10:47 |
| Burgwork | there is a very clear cut line there | 10:47 |
| LaserJock | it isn't to me | 10:48 |
| mdke | they'll know, because it will be called the right thing | 10:48 |
| mdke | help | 10:48 |
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| mdke | and it will have a massive logo on it :) | 10:48 |
| LaserJock | but what if I need help packaging, for instance? (something I know) do I look at h.u.c or w.u.c? | 10:49 |
| mdke | w | 10:49 |
| mdke | because that is development | 10:49 |
| LaserJock | but I needed help? | 10:49 |
| Burgwork | that is helping Ubuntu, not setting up your printer | 10:49 |
| === mdke agrees, LaserJock needs help | ||
| LaserJock | totally ;-)( | 10:49 |
| LaserJock | umm ;-) even | 10:50 |
| mdke | but you're not going to find that on anything.ubuntu.com | 10:50 |
| LaserJock | ok, so what if you had a choice at h.u.c when you did a search to also search w.u.c? | 10:50 |
| === robotgeek thinks it is a search problem | ||
| mdke | robotgeek, no, it's not as simple as that | 10:50 |
| mdke | i think the mistake was presenting this as a search problem | 10:51 |
| robotgeek | mdke: hmm, okay | 10:51 |
| mdke | it's much bigger | 10:51 |
| LaserJock | my problem is I don't see "help" as being very clearly defined so I'm having trouble drawing the line between help. and wiki. | 10:52 |
| mdke | LaserJock, call it documentation then | 10:52 |
| mdke | robotgeek, it's about giving users documentation in one place rather than two, and giving documentation a bigger and better profile | 10:52 |
| Burgwork | robotgeek, search is one aspect of the problem | 10:52 |
| LaserJock | mdke: there are a lot of wiki pages in MOTU/ that I would call documentation. | 10:52 |
| jjesse | i have 90% of my time found the needed information by using the search for text function in the wiki | 10:52 |
| mdke | LaserJock, call it user documentation then | 10:52 |
| Burgwork | end user help | 10:53 |
| robotgeek | mdke: #3 on BetterWikiDocs makes a lot of sense | 10:53 |
| Burgwork | MS has a clear distinction | 10:53 |
| mdke | robotgeek, yeah, that should be #1 for me | 10:53 |
| LaserJock | MS isn't very open either. we do our development in public which means, I think, that the separation is a little fuzzy | 10:54 |
| Burgwork | yes, but think of the difference between MSDN and their knowledgebase | 10:54 |
| LaserJock | what if what the user is wanting help on is addressed in a spec? | 10:54 |
| mdke | LaserJock, i think you're clinging too hard to this "definition" thing. Just think about your users looking for documentation to use their system | 10:55 |
| Burgwork | end users should not be using a spec to get help | 10:55 |
| mdke | LaserJock, if the help is in a spec, then there is no need for us to assist them to find it, it should be in documentation | 10:55 |
| LaserJock | mdke: the reason that I'm worried about the definition is that we will have to decide what goes to help. | 10:55 |
| Burgwork | we can say in the help "This is going to be made easier by XYZ spec" | 10:55 |
| LaserJock | sure | 10:55 |
| mdke | LaserJock, that is not as difficult as you're making out, i repeat, think about users grappling with their system | 10:56 |
| mdke | there is a pretty clear distinction between development and user documentation | 10:56 |
| LaserJock | I suppose, although I think they are pretty closely tied together | 10:57 |
| LaserJock | unless the help meets all the users needs | 10:57 |
| mdke | they aren't, IMO. | 10:57 |
| mdke | ok, i'm going to bed | 10:57 |
| robotgeek | night mdke | 10:57 |
| mdke | nighty night | 10:57 |
| LaserJock | I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for having to root around in the development to get the help I needed. | 10:57 |
| mdke | LaserJock, no one is undervaluing that | 10:58 |
| LaserJock | cya mdke, and just to let you know, I support the spec. I think it is a great idea | 10:58 |
| mdke | :) | 10:58 |
| === robotgeek is still trying to understand the details | ||
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| LaserJock | I'm just trying to work through all the issues and get us thinking about it. I think there are disadvantages to anything but I think in this case the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages | 10:59 |
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| LaserJock | hmm, I don't suppose it is possible to have a test wiki (mediawiki maybe?) to do somewhat of a mockup? | 11:08 |
| Burgwork | LaserJock, see the thread on -doc about improving the wiki to what it needs to be | 11:16 |
| LaserJock | well, but for our separate wiki? I just wonder what it would look like? Same as right now with a link at help.u.c? | 11:18 |
| Burgwork | ideally it would integrated svn and wiki | 11:18 |
| Burgwork | mdke did some work on this | 11:18 |
| LaserJock | cool | 11:22 |
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| robotgeek | hi, can anyone help with some docbook? | 11:42 |
| robotgeek | desktopguide.xml:25: element book: validity error : root and DTD name do not match 'book' and 'article' | 11:42 |
| === IanW|Away is now known as FreakinNuts | ||
| LaserJock | robotgeek: umm, did you happen to mix book and article somewhere? | 11:46 |
| robotgeek | LaserJock: i don't think so | 11:49 |
| robotgeek | LaserJock: lemme revert the files, lol | 11:51 |
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