[12:04] <sebest> it's writtend in C, and has a DBUS api , + C/C++/C# bindings
[12:04] <sebest> and integrates in glib/qt mainloop
[12:05] <Pygi> Like the last 4 API's/frameworks I heard about were using DBUS :)
[12:05] <Pygi> DBUS became popular :P
[12:05] <sebest> we'll provide an alternative IPC soon as dbus is not working on windows AFAIK
[12:06] <Pygi> heh :P
[12:07] <sebest> but it's already working on other unixes (*BSD, macOsX)
[12:07] <Pygi> ah, well, in most cases windows has to be special :-/
[12:08] <sebest> porting using cygwin is not really hard, but with mingw it's a lot more work...
[12:08] <Pygi> yup, I know :-/
[01:46] <Psi-Jack> Any Cyrus-IMAPD guys around? :)
[01:48] <Pygi> no, sorry :-/
[03:53] <setuid> ah, there IS a channel for this ;)
[05:22] <setuid> What is "kickseed", and why does it hard-lock my machine during install time?
[09:13] <neuralis> fabbione: ATM, webmin isn't in dapper. if this won't change, we should look at potentially also removing webmin-ldap-netgroups, webmin-ldap-user-simple, webmin-sbs and webmin-slbackup.
[09:13] <neuralis> fabbione: it probably doesn't make sense to have them in the archive without webmin itself.
[09:16] <infinity> Of course, it would be nice if someone wrote some GUI admin tools that didn't suck, so people can stop complaining about how "Linux servers are too hard for my blind, senile grandmother to have a 150K/year job in IT!"
[09:17] <infinity>  * NOTE: The above quote may be hyperbole.
[09:34] <neuralis> infinity: i'm with you 100%.
[09:55] <fabbione> neuralis: hehe ok
[09:55] <fabbione> neuralis: ipvsadm and keepalived should be in main now
[09:55] <fabbione> i didn't check yet
[11:11] <Pygi> fabbione: ping
[11:11] <fabbione> pong
[11:12] <Pygi> I'm running -server kernel
[11:12] <Pygi> everything is peacfull for now :)
[11:14] <Pygi> o chara one :P
[11:15] <MarioMeyer> heya
[11:16] <spike> 'morning
[11:17] <Psi-Jack> Grrr.
[11:17] <Psi-Jack> Anyone here using postfix with smtp-auth?
[11:17] <Pygi> mornin' spike
[11:17] <MarioMeyer> me
[11:18] <Psi-Jack> I got saslauthd going, but postfix can't connect to saslauthd. I don't know why.
[11:18] <MarioMeyer> i just followed the how-to forge .. went smoothly
[11:19] <Psi-Jack> You using it with saslauthd?
[11:20] <MarioMeyer> yep
[11:20] <Psi-Jack> Aha..
[11:21] <Psi-Jack> postfix is chrooted to /var/spool/postfix, isn't it?
[11:21] <MarioMeyer> depends on your config
[11:21] <MarioMeyer> http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect_setup_ubuntu_5.10_p4
[11:21] <MarioMeyer> ;)
[11:22] <MarioMeyer> gotta reboot
[11:26] <Psi-Jack> There we go.
[11:26] <Psi-Jack> It was chrooted.
[11:31] <Pygi> psi: works now?
[11:32] <Psi-Jack> Yep
[11:32] <Psi-Jack> I had to change saslauthd's mux dir. heh
[11:32] <Pygi> k, great :)
[11:32] <Psi-Jack> Thankfully, ONLY postfix needs saslauthd on this system.
[11:36] <Psi-Jack> And now...
[11:37] <Psi-Jack> To see how exactly postfix does it's sasl-auth dn for ldap. LOL
[11:38] <Psi-Jack> Holy sheeit.
[11:38] <Psi-Jack> Hehe.
[11:39] <Psi-Jack> slapd's log scrolled so fast doing ldap stuff that postfix also uses, so I couldn't even see the actual smtp-auth's sasl bind. LOL
[11:40] <fabbione> Pygi: nice thanks
[11:40] <Psi-Jack> There a fast way to get to the EOF in vim?
[11:43] <Pygi> fabbione: yw
[11:43] <Psi-Jack> Ahh, good, it's working just like cyrus-imapd. Mapping it to use uid=username@domainname instead of uid=username,cn=domainname
[11:44] <Pygi> fabbione: I'll *start* playing with that puting /etc under bzr control
[11:44] <fabbione> Pygi: that won't happen
[11:44] <Pygi> fabbione: huh, new plans?
[11:44] <fabbione> it has been deferred to dapper+1
[11:44] <Pygi> ah,ok
[11:44] <fabbione> simply because Feature Freeze is in 2 days
[11:44] <Pygi> anything else that needs attendance?
[11:44] <fabbione> and there was not enough man power to do it
[11:44] <Pygi> ah, understood
[11:45] <fabbione> Pygi: no, i am happy if you keep testing installs on a regular base and kernels
[11:45] <fabbione> bbl
[11:45] <Pygi> k, then maybe I'll be able to do some real coding around for dapper +1
[11:45] <Pygi> k, bon apetit
[11:45] <fabbione> thanks
[11:46] <Psi-Jack> Excelent. :)
[11:46] <Psi-Jack> You know.
[11:46] <JulienH> Hi all
[11:47] <Psi-Jack> It's a pain in the a** to setup postfix and cyrus-imapd alone, but to toss in ldap on the blend is even more painful.
[11:47] <JulienH> Will the webmin package (or anything like that) be moved from universe to main ? I'm asking because of the security support issue.
[11:48] <Psi-Jack> Heh. I've been wondering. Things in main get the security updates, but what about things in universe?
[11:48] <JulienH> In uni
[11:48] <JulienH> http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components : "but it comes with no guarantee of security fixes and support"
[11:49] <Psi-Jack> Oh.. Goodie.
[11:49] <Psi-Jack> I noticed, cyrus-imapd got moved to universe.
[11:49] <Psi-Jack> Then again. cyrus-imapd itself, is pretty damn secure.
[11:50] <Psi-Jack> Once I get /all/ of my mailserver stuff setup, everything internally will be TLS encrypted.
[11:51] <Pygi> to my knowledge webmin doesn't exist in dapper
[11:51] <JulienH> The fact that a package is considered secure or well coded doesn't resolve the security fixes support issue...
[11:51] <Psi-Jack> Well, lets see..
[11:52] <Psi-Jack> apt-cache search webmin on a dapper system.. Results in VERY few matches.
[11:52] <JulienH> Pygi:  It is in Dapper -> http://tinyurl.com/mcnng
[11:52] <Psi-Jack> JulienH: I see.. 4
[11:53] <Psi-Jack> And they're all just modules. Not even the actual webmin main part.
[11:53] <JulienH> Psi-Jack: oh man, sorry, I've badly looked... :/
[11:54] <Pygi> JulienH: hehe, np :)
[11:54] <Psi-Jack> I only really know this because I moved one of my servers to use dapper.
[11:54] <Psi-Jack> Because cyrus-imapd 2.2.x was only in Dapper.
[11:55] <Psi-Jack> Since that server literally /only/ does cyrus-imapd, with it's imapd, pop3d, lmtpd, sieve, etc.. I figured it was "sane" enough.
[11:55] <JulienH> But... why was webmin removed from Dapper ? It's a very useful software and is used on some prod servers...
[11:55] <Psi-Jack> On yeah, and it's nntpd. :)
[11:55] <Pygi> Psi-Jack: are you subscribed to -server mailing list?
[11:55] <Psi-Jack> I, personally, haven't seen much usefulness in webmin.
[11:55] <Psi-Jack> Pygi: Not yet.,
[11:56] <Psi-Jack> I will be in a few mins. :)
[11:57] <Psi-Jack> Hmm
[11:57] <Psi-Jack> Where is it?
[11:57] <Pygi> Psi-Jack: it is hidden, yes I know :)
[11:57] <Psi-Jack> heh
[11:57] <JulienH> I can see a dapper-changes list, but not server list.... https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/
[11:57] <Pygi> second psi jack
[11:58] <Psi-Jack> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server/ ?
[11:58] <Pygi> yes, that one :)
[11:58] <Psi-Jack> Just had to manually type it in.
[11:59] <JulienH> Thanks, I'm subscribing now...
[11:59] <Pygi> psi-jack: are you ready to do a little testing for us? :)
[11:59] <Psi-Jack> Pygi: What kind?
[11:59] <Pygi> Psi-Jack: the ubuntu repositories contain a -server kernels... *dapper repositories*
[11:59] <Psi-Jack> Ohh, really? hardened kernels?
[12:00] <Pygi> run them and let people do whatever they do on that servers, report stability, issues, etc :)
[12:00] <Pygi> we need all kind of reports we can get
[12:00] <Psi-Jack> That a hardened kernel? :)
[12:00] <Pygi> yes, that's a server-tuned kernel
[12:01] <Psi-Jack> What's it got? PaX, GRsecure, SElinux?
[12:01] <Pygi> not sure about that, sorry :-/
[12:02] <Psi-Jack> That makes a difference. :)
[12:02] <Pygi> I just upgraded the kernel yesterday, and it seems stable
[12:02] <Psi-Jack> If using a PaX+GRsecure+SElinux kernel, one must know, so that can properly facilitate which tools are required to actually setup the hardening.
[12:03] <Pygi> you'll have to ask fabbione that once he's here...
[12:03] <Psi-Jack> fabbione: What about the twinkie?
[12:03] <Pygi> psi: fabbione's eating :P
[12:03] <Psi-Jack> Ironic that I mentioned twinkie, then, huh?
[12:04] <Psi-Jack> :)
[12:04] <Psi-Jack> What's -server's List-Id?
[12:04] <JulienH> How the package selection for Dapper is done ?
[12:04] <Psi-Jack> JulienH: Umm. The same ways as always?
[12:04] <Pygi> JulienH: what do you mean?
[12:05] <Psi-Jack> I sooo need to hurry up and switch to syslog-ng instead of syslog/klogd
[12:05] <Pygi> ah, well :)
[12:05] <Psi-Jack> Anyone her using syslog-ng?
[12:06] <Psi-Jack> Just wondering if it's pre-canned just like syslog/klogd are, or if it has a totally different setup.
[12:06] <Pygi> JulienH: as always, only main repository is supported for the amount of time stated
[12:06] <JulienH> Pygi: for example, who decides if the webmin package will be or not in Dapper
[12:06] <Pygi> the Ubuntu Developers team/Technical board
[12:07] <fabbione> Psi-Jack: twinkie?
[12:07] <Pygi> also, only server packages will be supported on -server
[12:07] <Pygi> you can't install ubuntu-desktop and want it to be supported same as -server
[12:07] <Psi-Jack> fabbione: Hehe. Ever seen Ghost Busters?
[12:07] <JulienH> Pygi: of course, that makes sense :)
[12:08] <Pygi> JulienH: well, just wanted to make it clear :)
[12:08] <fabbione> Psi-Jack: yeah.. i did.. in italian.. twinkies do tell me much.. sorry :/
[12:08] <Psi-Jack> Hehe
[12:09] <JulienH> Pygi: well, if webmin isn't in Dapper, is there any equivalent package (web-based server administration tool) in ?
[12:09] <Psi-Jack> fabbione: I was wondering, since Pygi brought it up. What's with the -server kernels? What's it got in it? PaX, GRsecure, SElinux?
[12:09] <Pygi> JulienH: currently? no...there is no officialy supported web admin tool
[12:09] <fabbione> selinux is there, can be enabled with a boot option
[12:09] <Pygi> but a few might emerge in universe
[12:09] <Psi-Jack> fabbione: Is that the only one?
[12:09] <fabbione> PaX and GR no
[12:09] <Psi-Jack> Hmm.
[12:10] <Psi-Jack> Odd..
[12:10] <fabbione> Psi-Jack: yes, it's the only one in mainline
[12:10] <Psi-Jack> I would have gone with PaX+GRsecure before going just SElinux..
[12:10] <fabbione> and we don't plan to add them at all. Previous reviews of the code made as run away yelling and screaming
[12:10] <fabbione> Psi-Jack: it's not a problem of learning curve here
[12:10] <fabbione> it's a problem of supporting the solutions
[12:11] <Psi-Jack> Heh.
[12:11] <fabbione> it's very difficult to support PaX and GRsecure in time
[12:11] <Psi-Jack> Guess I won't be testing -server kernels afterall. ;)
[12:12] <Pygi> fabbione: do we already have a list of tasks what needs to be acomplished for dapper+1 or is it too early?
[12:12] <fabbione> Pygi: usually that list is discussed the week after release
[12:12] <JulienH> Pygi: 'cause it would be great to see a package like webmin. In this idea: "insert the Dapper CD, install, reboot and administrate your server smoothly and remotely !"
[12:12] <fabbione> when we will be writing specs and so on
[12:13] <fabbione> but if you have ideas, post them ,discuss them.. etc.
[12:13] <Pygi> JulienH: that was the point of Ubuntu-instant-server project, but it failed :-/
[12:13] <fabbione> you can always do that
[12:13] <fabbione> but there is no guarantee that they will be implemented by us
[12:13] <fabbione> most of the time who suggest needs to do ;)
[12:13] <Pygi> fabbione: kk, that would be great... I'd also like to get more involved into coding in dapper+1
[12:13] <Pygi> this release was ... huh.. :-/
[12:13] <JulienH> Pygi: ah ? are there any historics from this project ?
[12:14] <Pygi> JulienH: I am afraid that there is not, as matt erased all traces on wiki I think...
[12:14] <Pygi> You can check out the wiki to find it
[12:14] <Pygi> Ebox seems like a nice solution at first view (google it)
[12:15] <Pygi> fabbione: if there will be some tasks that needs to be acomplished in dapper+1 once we start doing it, I'll be more then glad to help out in coding/development
[12:16] <fabbione> Pygi: that would be lovely
[12:17] <Pygi> I'll just need to learn bzr, as I never worked with that, and you use it as rcs, but it shouldn't be too hard
[12:19] <JulienH> Pygi: ok, I'll try to contact matt in to see if the project can be restarted...
[12:19] <Pygi> JulienH: have you found the project?
[12:20] <JulienH> Pygi: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-instserv-dev
[12:21] <JulienH> Pygi: but nothing in wiki
[12:21] <Pygi> ah, yes, I was kicked out of that team :P Yup, he erased wiki...
[12:32] <Pygi> to me one thing is not clear in launchpad *altought a lot of things are not clear* and that is how a team owner can be kicked :-/
[12:33] <Pygi> nevertheless, I gotta go
[12:33] <Pygi> see you later
[12:33] <JulienH> Pygi: cya
[12:40] <spike> fabbione: has been rsbac evaluated along with grsec?
[12:40] <fabbione> spike: can't remember...
[12:40] <spike> fabbione: well, they do strive to keep code stable and easy to maintain
[12:41] <spike> fabbione: I had some discussion with a couple of devs back when we met and they'd love to cooperate to see it included in ubuntu.
[12:41] <fabbione> spike: it's dapper+1 business now
[12:41] <spike> sure
[01:35] <Psi-Jack> Okay.
[01:35] <Psi-Jack> How between mysql 4.1 and 5.0, I upgraded to 5.0 on one system, but it's still using 4.1, how do I switch it? hehe
[01:41] <Psi-Jack> Err. okay. Nevermind.
[01:42] <Psi-Jack> It seemed to have upgraded it, from what I can tell, .... Seemlessly..
[02:49] <allee> In order to promote -server images, I can only suggest to add a better description.
[02:50] <allee> current desc only contains technical stuff.  No info why one can/should use -server image. Like
[02:51] <allee> Builtin features of the -server image are: ??, ??   It does not support: audio, ??? ...
[03:09] <YogSothoth> Hi
[03:09] <YogSothoth> Should I follow Filesystem Hierarchy Standard about installing apps in /opt and their configuration files in /etc/opt? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard And what about /srv? Should I move all my /var/www to /srv?
[03:43] <asw> fabbione: ping
[03:44] <fabbione> pong
[03:44] <asw> We spoke at UBZ.   It looks like we'll be buying several racks of server clusters.
[03:44] <asw> I'd like to run Ubuntu server. :)
[03:45] <asw> Are there ISO's of dapper-based ubuntu server?
[03:45] <fabbione> hey Alexander
[03:45] <fabbione> yes i remember
[03:45] <fabbione> yup..
[03:45] <asw> I realize it's not released yet...) but I'd like to start qualifying hardware.
[03:45] <fabbione> let me dig
[03:45] <asw> we plan to buy a 1.5 terrabyte of ram cluster this year. :)
[03:45] <fabbione> neat :)
[03:46] <asw> people in the lab have seen me using Ubuntu and it seems it's popping up on all osrts of desktops.
[03:46] <fabbione> eeheh
[03:46] <fabbione> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/
[03:46] <fabbione> they are in a dir or subdir around there
[03:47] <fabbione> i would love to give you the full url but i have bw issues here
[03:47] <asw> thank you very much.  These are kernel 2.6.15 based?
[03:47] <fabbione> yes
[03:47] <fabbione> they are dapper
[03:47] <asw> right.
[03:47] <fabbione> note one important thing
[03:47] <fabbione> we do have a specific -server kernel
[03:47] <fabbione> but it's not installed automatically yet
[03:47] <fabbione> it's on the CD tho
[03:47] <fabbione> or should be...
[03:48] <asw> Our servers are dual opteron amd64 with 3ware-9550sx controllers.
[03:48] <maswan> asw: we have one of those, memtest is essential
[03:48] <maswan> asw: 1.5TB ram cluster that is
[03:48] <asw> maswan - very cool.  I'm at harvard medical school.  Where are you?
[03:48] <maswan> asw: Oh, what kind of performance do you see on those controllers?
[03:48] <asw> Well... we are just getting them today.
[03:48] <maswan> asw: HPC2N, Ume University, Sweden
[03:48] <maswan> ah, you haven't done benchmarking on them yet?
[03:49] <maswan> We're getting one to test any day now
[03:49] <fabbione> 1.5T.. how many machines is that? :)
[03:49] <maswan> fabbione: in our case, 190 8-gig nodes
[03:49] <asw> Currently we still have a smaller cluster.  but i'm specing the 96 node x 16gb cluster now.
[03:49] <fabbione> ehhe
[03:50] <maswan> we're going to upgrade from a rather old debian-amd64 sid snapshot to breezy any month now. :)
[03:50] <asw> the cool thing about 96 by 16 is that you can get full gige from any node to any node just by using four 48port switches and the fact that each node has two gige ports.
[03:50] <JulienH> The link of U.S. (Devel) : http://tinyurl.com/cllfu is broken...
[03:50] <maswan> well, we have myrinet on this cluster anyway
[03:51] <maswan> the gige part is less important. :)
[03:51] <maswan> what kind of usage are you getting the cluster for?
[03:51] <fabbione> JulienH: it's problably the Datacenter that is dead slow
[03:52] <fabbione> yeah
[03:52] <asw> http://www.nature.com/msb/journal/v1/n1/full/msb4100040.html
[03:52] <fabbione> they are reworking some firewalls and bw stuff
[03:53] <JulienH> fabbione: you're probably right, it works now :)
[03:53] <fabbione> JulienH: people in here that knows me a bit more will confirm that i am *cough*ALWAYS*cough* right :)
[03:54] <fabbione> asw: so when do you plan the deployment of such beast?
[03:54] <fabbione> and most important thing.. can i get access with a distcc setup? :P
[03:55] <JulienH> fabbione: don't be so modest :P
[03:55] <asw> we hope to get the first rack in may/june
[03:55] <asw> we are getting test nodes today.
[03:55] <fabbione> nice
[03:55] <fabbione> asw: what software do you plan to run on top?
[03:55] <fabbione> s/software/scheduler
[03:55] <asw> basically our application could use 5 terrabytes of RAM if it was availabe.  Just a big hash table.
[03:56] <asw> So next year I hope that 4gb SDRAM is as cheap as 2gb x 2 and we can get a 3 terrabyte cluster. ;)
[03:56] <maswan> :)
[03:56] <fabbione> next year your app will be able to use 50GB
[03:56] <fabbione> 50T
[03:56] <asw> laughing. true.
[03:57] <fabbione> asw: what do you do with all that "old" ram? :)
[03:57] <asw> it's been a crazy couple of months since UBZ
[03:57] <asw> no no. I'm talking about buying a new 3terrabyte cluster not throwing away the old one!
[03:57] <fabbione> ah
[03:58] <fabbione> so you would go up to 4.5T
[03:58] <asw> the budget calls for two.  one this year, one next.  But there are lots of variables.   I've got vendors sorted out but I need to sort out heat/power/space
[03:58] <maswan> asw: Heh. Yeah, we're hitting that limit in our current machine room now.
[03:58] <asw> fabbione 4.5t + ~.5 we will have by may june.
[03:59] <fabbione> asw: cool
[03:59] <maswan> asw: Some vendors say nice things about in-rack 48V DC
[04:00] <asw> a few months ago. I didn't admin anything.  this is all somewhat new to me.  When I was buying hardware seriously it was 1993...
[04:00] <maswan> Heh
[04:00] <asw> well, more like, 1993-1998
[04:00] <asw> back then 16mb of ram was a lot.
[04:01] <maswan> Well, we do keep track of this stuff since the last buy was a bit more than a year ago, and the next one should probably start procurement procedure in half a year
[04:14] <setuid> Anyone know if an AMD 3000+ is a decent processor?
[04:17] <maswan> AMD what 3000+?
[04:17] <maswan> athlon64? sempron?
[04:21] <setuid> Sec.
[04:21] <setuid> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1219286&CatId=0
[04:28] <maswan> ah, socket 754 athlon64
[04:28] <maswan> well, it depends, how much memory bandwidth do you need?
[04:40] <setuid> Sorry, was distracted calling in another ticket.
[04:40] <setuid> I just want something faster than my ageing 1.2Ghz AMD Duron
[04:41] <maswan> well, it should be 2-3 times faster anyway
[04:41] <setuid> heh
[04:41] <setuid> What should I be looking for, in a sub-$1,000/USD range?
[04:44] <maswan> well, that might be resonable
[04:45] <setuid> Hrm
[04:45] <setuid> Ok, its going to replace a 1.2Ghz Duron and a dual PIII/600 machine
[04:45] <setuid> I'll get two of these I guess
[04:46] <maswan> you might want to look at getting a slightly beefier cheapest x2 though
[04:46] <maswan> unless you do need to have those separate
[04:46] <setuid> x2?
[04:47] <maswan> dual core thingie
[04:47] <setuid> Ah
[04:49] <setuid> I wonder if I can afford that ;-(
[04:50] <maswan> well, it depends, it'll be cheaper than two lower end servers
[04:50] <maswan> but more expensive, if you still need two
[04:56] <setuid> Here we go
[04:56] <setuid> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1617476&CatId=1991
[04:59] <maswan> heh. the 4-socket machines with opteron 8xx are really expensive
[05:00] <setuid> Right, but I could run vmware or something and virtualize the hell out of it
[05:00] <maswan> sure
[05:00] <setuid> Hrm, or...
[05:01] <setuid> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1740080&CatId=1991
[05:01] <setuid> For roughly the same price as the two duals...
[05:01] <maswan> for better price/performance, I'd go for duals
[05:02] <setuid> Right, but it reduces me to a single point of failure
[05:02] <setuid> And a single IO path on the mobo
[05:03] <setuid> Wouldn't two physically-separate AMD 3000+'s be faster than 1 dual-core Opteron 165?
[05:03] <maswan> it'd be about even, I think
[05:03] <setuid> decisions, decisions ;)
[05:04] <maswan> since the opteron has twice the memory bandwidth of a socket 754, a socket 939 athlon64 on the other hand..
[05:04] <maswan> oh, well. I'm off
[05:04] <setuid> hrm... it does?
[05:17] <Psi-Jack> Anyone here know how pam_passwdqc works? :)
[07:59] <Unfun> Hello, does anyone know how to get LSI cli utilities working on Ubuntu?
[08:02] <LordHunter317> lsi?
[08:03] <Unfun> lsi is a raid card manafacturer
[08:08] <LordHunter317> oh.
[08:08] <LordHunter317> yeah. no, I don't.