[12:17] <ploum> http://www.fosdem.org/2006/index/interviews/interviews_waugh : jdub interview for FOSDEM (just for info)
=== lemsto [n=salim@ANantes-154-1-81-232.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== seth [n=seth@ubuntu/member/seth]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[12:58] <Kamion> doko: so this libgcj-doc package in NEW; does the way it's packaged mean that we have to rebuild it every time the libgcjN-src package changes? this seems a little odd
[01:02] <doko> Kamion: I first had it in gcj-4.1. It's a 35mb binary ... which takes some time to build and to upload. it only needs a rebuild, when the libgcj interface changes. that was see reason to split it out.
[01:03] <mdz> infinity: around?
[01:03] <Kamion> doko: so it only applies to gcj-4.1 at the moment? (presumably accepting it wouldn't affect earlier gcj?)
[01:05] <sistpoty> Kamion | mdz: do you know if there is an ETA until syncs will be progressed again?
[01:05] <doko> Kamion: doesn't affect it; can be rebuilt against libgcj6-src, if necessary. the idea is that other java-doc packages have reference this one, so it doesn't make sense to have two libgcj[67] -packages
[01:08] <Kamion> sistpoty: elmo was asking for example syncs to test earlier, so I assume he's working on them. I have no ETA.
[01:09] <sistpoty> Kamion: thx... this is really good news :)
[01:09] <Kamion> doko: hmm, ok. is the documentation build time really a huge proportion of the overall gcj-4.1 build time?
[01:10] <doko> about 20minutes
[01:10] <doko> of 4hours
[01:10] <Kamion> that doesn't really seem to justify splitting off a separate source package
[01:11] <Kamion> but whatever, I guess it's tiny
[01:11] <Kamion> I just think we ought to stop this source package splitting at some point
[01:12] <doko> Kamion: there are no _sources_ in this package, it just has a b-d to libgcj7-src
[01:12] <doko> the source package itself _is_ tiny
[01:12] <Kamion> yes, I know, and packages like that are an extra maintenance burden and should only be introduced when absolutely necessary
[01:13] <Kamion> it's another thing to forget when updating the toolchain
[01:13] <Kamion> mdz: what do you think?
[01:15] <infinity> mdz: Am now.
[01:16] <mdz> Kamion,doko: in my opinion the time to build the documentation is not significant
[01:16] <mdz> infinity: wanted to talk about splash-down
[01:18] <infinity> mdz: It works as-is on my hard drive with a change to gdm (needs to be replicated to kdm and ldm, obviously) to call a splash-down helper/wrapper, which invokes usplash.
[01:18] <infinity> mdz: I was waiting on fixing a bogl bug that's preventing me from daemonising usplash (so it can properly block and detach, rather than backgrounding and praying it's ready), but that can wait.
[01:20] <mdz> infinity: so it'll land before feature freeze?
[01:20] <infinity> mdz: There's also the part where "Sending TERM signal to processes" is taking forever and a day in current dapper, which kind of messes with things, but that's not usplash's bug. (and should be hunted down before release anyway)
[01:20] <mdz> hmm, haven't seen the TERM thing taking forever here
[01:20] <infinity> Lucky you.  A few people saw it in London, and I see it here on nearly every shutdown/reboot.
[01:20] <infinity> I guess I should try to trace it, if the problem's not universal.
[01:21] <doko> Kamion: building it from the gcj source adds a cyclic build dependency (gjdoc -> libgcj). you may argue that we already have one (gettext). So please reject it, I'll add it
=== stub [n=stub@gb.ja.95.210.revip.asianet.co.th]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[01:21] <infinity> mdz: FeatureFreeze is in 2 days?  Yeah, I can land the usplash/gdm changes today or tomorrow (at the latest), and clean up the kdm/ldm integration post-freeze, if that's okay with you?
[01:22] <infinity> mdz: What is Xubuntu using for a *dm?  gdm as well?
[01:22] <mdz> infinity: yes (the alternative is that we defer it)
[01:22] <Kamion> doko: a build-dep cycle certainly isn't ideal, but I think when updating Dapper to gcj-4.1 we should probably change the packaging as little as possible in the process
[01:23] <infinity> mdz: I see no overwhelming need to defer it.  Though if we defer it, it'll probably just not happen at all, since for dapper+1, I'd rather see a push towards "shutdown in 2 seconds", not "pretty graphical shutdown that takes a long time"
[01:23] <infinity> (No reason why we CAN'T get a desktop system down almost instantly.  Very few things that we "stop cleanly" actually NEED to be stopped cleanly)
[01:23] <Kamion> doko: rejected, thanks for the discussion
[01:24] <mdz> infinity: if it doesn't land by feature freeze, it won't be feasible for dapper.  it's long past time we stopped fiddling with the startup/shutdown sequence and finish working out the bugs we already have
[01:25] <mdz> so I see no overwhelming need to defer it, unless it doesn't make the deadline ;-)
[01:25] <Kamion> infinity: gdm, according to the Xubuntu seeds I have here
[01:25] <infinity> mdz: Understood.  I'll try to land it in my spare time in the next day or two.
[01:25] <infinity> Kamion: Thanks.
[01:26] <infinity> mdz: Speaking of features (or changes thereof), I've almost completely ignored PHP during this release cycle, but was wanting to ask you if it'd be okay (even if it spills past FeatureFreeze by a week or two) to re-do the PHP configuration so it actually works for everyone (basically, using a conf.d setup that doesn't confuse people, rather than the current debconf configuration that doesn't work in many cases)
[01:27] <doko> Kamion, mdz: if I update java-gcj-compat to use gcj-4.1, please can you promote gcj-4.1 to main, or should I wait until tomorrow?
[01:27] <infinity> mdz: The current config relies on you having the interpreter installed before an extension.  So, if you install php50cli, then php5-mysql, then libapache2-mod-php5, you'll only have MySQL support in php5-cli, unless you dpkg-reconfigure, which most users don't know.
[01:27] <Kamion> doko: if mdz's ok with it, I can do it right now
[01:28] <mdz> Kamion: fine with me
[01:28] <Kamion> and if you tell me exactly which binaries to promote
[01:28] <infinity> mdz: Changing it to make it less broken isn't much effort, but it's effort I've not had the time to spend.
[01:28] <infinity> mdz: At least, not the spare time.  If I can take a day or two of "paid time", I can fix it up.
[01:28] <mdz> infinity: I'm less concerned about the effort than about changing it at all, rigid-and-boring etc.
[01:28] <infinity> mdz: I know earlier, you and Mark cornered me about making PHP less ocnfusing for users, so I would like to fix it.
[01:28] <Kamion> looks like everything but lib32gcj7-dbg and lib32gcj7-dev? (matching gcj-4.0)
[01:28] <mdz> infinity: what's consuming your time?  haven't seen activity reports from you
[01:28] <infinity> mdz: Rigid and borind was why I never changed it in hoary or breezy, but it IS broken, so...
[01:29] <infinity> s/borind/boring/
[01:29] <infinity> mdz: These days, it's mostly hunting down missing and failed builds and dealing with the 12-clicks-per-give-back in soyuz, while I help cprov write proper dep-wait handling and continue to file bug to make the buildd interface work.
=== zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[01:31] <Kamion> oh, and not libgcj7-dbg or libgcj7-src either (again matching gcj-4.0)
[01:32] <Kamion> doko: promoted gcj-4.1 gcj-4.1-base gij-4.1 lib32gcj7 libgcj7 libgcj7-awt libgcj7-dev libgcj7-jar, matching gcj-4.0; please change seeds to match if necessary
[01:34] <Kamion> mdz: while we're here, anything of mine you're concerned about wrt feature freeze? I think the remaining things on the espresso to-do list that might count as features are the keymap and location/timezone pages, language pack support, and maybe preseeding
[01:34] <mdz> infinity: at the status update meeting I asked for details about that; I would appreciate bug numbers and CCs for the soyuz issues
[01:34] <mdz> Kamion: espresso, espresso and espresso
[01:35] <Kamion> colour me unsurprised :-)
[01:35] <mdz> Kamion: is Mithrandir working in parallel with you now?
[01:35] <doko> mdz, Kamion: what about pending syncs and the feature freezy?
[01:35] <Kamion> mdz: yes
[01:35] <Kamion> doko: as I said to sistpoty above, elmo appears to be working on getting syncs working
[01:35] <Kamion> (again)
[01:35] <mdz> doko: pending syncs will be processed
[01:36] <Kamion> since I'm insomniac tonight, I'm trying to get the NEW queue down
[01:36] <doko> nice
[01:36] <infinity> mdz: https://launchpad.net/people/adconrad/+reportedbugs
[01:36] <infinity> mdz: Every one of my currently open reported bugs is against soyuz, so that's easy enough.
[01:36] <sistpoty> Kamion: rock! :)
[01:36] <infinity> mdz: I can CC you on the ones that are really killing my time (mostly anything dealing with dep-wait handling or batch processing)
[01:36] <mdz> infinity: thanks, please do
=== jcole [n=jcole@atlwebproxy2.core.hp.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== florian [n=fuchs@p5083B337.dip0.t-ipconnect.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[01:42] <florian> hi all
[01:43] <mdz> infinity: activity reports wouldn't hurt either; that's my best chance at knowing what you're up to
=== france [n=france@pool-151-203-238-32.bos.east.verizon.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[01:44] <infinity> mdz: Even if they say nothing more than "spent all day wading through the soyuz buildd UI finding failed builds, analysing them, and giving them back"?
[01:44] <mdz> infinity: especially if they say that
[01:44] <infinity> Fair enough.
[01:44] <mdz> because that means you're unable to make progress on your other work
[01:47] <infinity> mdz: I'm working with cprov to do some of the build-slave side of fixing up the dep-wait stuff to actually work.  Since I used to hack on sbuild and buildd in the Old World Order, that seems to be a fair transition of my job description.
[01:52] <sivang> mdz: I've made some very good progress with HUB, and worked solely on the last day, however it may happen that I'm still missing some bits to go when the clock hits 23Feb, is their a chance to get a 1-3 days (basically the weekend) more if that happens? (I'm left with finishing the restore functionality, multisession burning, and connecting this to a GUI) it would be a shame for me to see it doesn't make dapper when it would have needed a day or
[01:52] <jcole> hi guys, who is working on this? --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmbeddedUbuntu
[01:53] <Burgwork> jcape, afaik, currently nobody
=== dolson [n=dana@d235-185-252.home1.cgocable.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[01:54] <jcape> Uhh, what?
[01:54] <jcape> Not me :-)
[01:54] <mdz> sivang: feel free to continue as you like in universe
[01:54] <Burgwork> jcape, sorry
[01:54] <Burgwork> jcole, afaik, currently nobody
[01:55] <Burgwork> jcole, are you referencing the fsm interview with mark?
[01:55] <jcole> "GPE will be used as reference graphical environment."
[01:55] <jcole> florian and france are from #gpe
[01:55] <Burgwork> jcole, IANAD, but I have heard nary a word of it
[01:55] <dolson> hello everyone. could anyone tell me if the PAM (and possible bash & glibc) patch for rtprio and nice rlimits is going to be implemented for Dapper?
[01:56] <Kamion> is there a bug somewhere for it?
[01:56] <Kamion> including a patch?
[01:57] <france> jcole: florian is much more involved with gpe.  I do more overall bits and pieces.
[01:57] <dolson> yes, bug #17348
[01:57] <Ubugtu> malone bug 17348 in pam libpam0g "Please add support for RT prio & nice rlimits" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/17348
[01:58] <Burgwork> jcole, check with this person --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndersonLizardo
[01:58] <sivang> mdz: I do not wish to defer now, I still got a day and some more to work on it.
[01:58] <france> jcole: the embedded ubuntu page looks good
[01:59] <Burgwork> france, are you an upstream gpe dev?
[01:59] <Kamion> dolson: I've assigned the bug to me, and I'll have a look in my next piece of free time (unless somebody else wants to grab it off me)
[02:00] <france> bootldr, kernel, familiar, hh.org site.
[02:00] <Burgwork> france, ah
[02:00] <dolson> Kamion: thank you. this is an important thing for us musicians, so your attention is much appreciated
[02:01] <jcole> EmbeddedUbuntu wants to use u-boot... "florian: but u-boot is a bad idea, iirc it doesn't support suspend/resume"
[02:01] <Burgwork> jcole, feel free to edit the spec as needed
=== florian is not sure if this changed recently, but iirc Ole checked some weeks ago
[02:02] <Kamion> NEW queue down to 40; off back to bed
[02:03] <florian> jcole: Using only one bootloader isn't possible in fact... 
[02:03] <jcole> "Needs guidance" -> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/embedded-ubuntu
[02:03] <jcole> "Priority:  High. This specification is strongly desired for the next major release, and we have every reason to believe that it can be delivered in that timeframe."
[02:03] <Burgwork> jcole, floam it is not going to happen for dapper in april, I don't realistically think
=== pietrus [n=pietrus@tor/session/x-8defc2a1e79f4b21]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:03] <Burgwork> floam, sorry, tab completion
[02:04] <mdz> sivang: what are you proposing?
[02:04] <floam> jerk!
[02:04] <Burgwork> floam, watch out, tone doesn't carry in text
[02:04] <floam> heh
[02:04] <floam> noone says "jerk" with an exclamation mark seriously
[02:05] <ajmitch> floam: many do on irc, sadly
[02:05] <floam> jerks!
[02:05] <floam> maybe I'll be more careful
[02:05] <ajmitch> please do
[02:06] <floam> now, if I had this house rigged to blow up when I'm mentioned on IRC, because I'm certain the FBI is after me, I might be a little peeved
[02:06] <Burgwork> jcole, france, florian ask ajmitch if you have any development questions. I am leaving work now
[02:07] <france> Burgwork: thx
=== AlinuxOS [n=Ubuntu@d83-176-83-92.cust.tele2.it]  has left #ubuntu-devel ["Ex-Chat"] 
[02:07] <ajmitch> Burgwork: you had to drop me in it, didn't you? :)
[02:08] <florian> okay :-)
[02:09] <mdz> jcole: unfortunately the workflow for spec prioritization in launchpad isn't very good yet; those values won't be reliable until that's been resolved
=== Keybuk [n=scott@213-78-32-60.ppp.onetel.net.uk]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jcole [n=jcole@atlwebproxy2.core.hp.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== stub [n=stub@gb.ja.95.210.revip.asianet.co.th]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-69-90.xlate.ufl.edu]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== CarlFK [n=carl@c-67-163-39-124.hsd1.il.comcast.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== smurf [n=smurf@debian/developer/smurf]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== winkle [i=winkle@kleopatra.acc.umu.se]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== j^ [n=j@e178056154.adsl.alicedsl.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ozamosi [n=ozamosi@ubuntu/member/ozamosi]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== `anthony [n=anthony@220-253-3-217.VIC.netspace.net.au]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Xof [n=mas01cr@158.223.59.22]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== spacey [n=herman@flits101-191.flits.rug.nl]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== simira [n=simira@tellus.err.no]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Micksa [n=mslade@203-217-18-166.perm.iinet.net.au]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ajmitch [n=ajmitch@port171-5.ubs.maxnet.net.nz]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== reggaemanu [n=manu@ARennes-257-1-56-145.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== bmonty [n=bmontgom@ubuntu/member/bmonty]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== azeem [n=mbanck@host45.natpool.mwn.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== sto [n=sto@debian/developer/sto]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jamesh [n=james@203-166-237-197.dyn.iinet.net.au]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Tm_T [i=tm_travo@xob.kapsi.fi]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== vuntz [n=vuntz@fennas.vuntz.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ccharles [n=colin@fedora/byte]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Kinnison [n=dsilvers@haddenham.pepperfish.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== sjoerd [i=sjoerd@tunnel3460.ipv6.xs4all.nl]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== torkel [i=torkel@69-188.umenet.t3.se]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Traxer|off [i=traxer@shell6.powershells.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Ubugtu [n=bugbot@ubuntu/member/seveas]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jmg [n=Jernau@shinobi.thoughtcrime.org.nz]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== k31th [n=k31th@keiths.gotadsl.co.uk]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mjr [i=mjr@aulis.sange.fi]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Chipzz [n=chipzz@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== \sh_away [n=shermann@ubuntu/member/backslash-sh]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Firetech [n=Jocke@amarok/rokymotion/Firetech]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== hile [i=hile@hack.fi]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== _AleX_ [n=alex@euronode.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Znarl [n=karl@bb-82-108-14-161.ukonline.co.uk]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== swat_ [n=swat@82-45-238-129.cable.ubr02.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== pietrus [n=pietrus@tor/session/x-8defc2a1e79f4b21]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== kent [n=kent@kr-lun-89-144-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== thierry [n=thierry@modemcable023.222-70-69.mc.videotron.ca]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zace_ [n=marc@i577B6B26.versanet.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ctd [i=ctd@incubus.progsoc.uts.edu.au]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== lifeless [n=robertc@static-147.29.240.220.dsl.comindico.com.au]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Marticus [n=demart01@12-211-4-182.client.insightbb.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== wasabi [n=wasabi@c-71-199-218-234.hsd1.co.comcast.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== HrdwrBoB [n=matt@bob.is.teh.admin.at.vicnet.net.au]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== fabbione [i=fabbione@gordian.fabbione.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== daq4th [n=darkness@netstation-005.cafe.zSeries.org]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== uniq [n=frode@213.184.199.55]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== sevrin [n=sevrin@202.75.186.154]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Jozo [i=jozo@nelli.ikonia.fi]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== dzonni [n=dzonni@ordi.ee]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== JanC [n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ispiked [n=ispiked@unaffiliated/ispiked]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== buga-away [n=burjang@csomalin.csoma.elte.hu]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== dieman [n=dieman@3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097.org]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== lamont [n=lamont@mib.fc.hp.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Treenaks [n=martijn@thuis.foodfight.org]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== dooglus [n=dooglus@rincevent.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jcape [i=jcape@71.194.176.102]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Kaloz [i=kaloz@openwrt.org]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== subterrific [n=jason@cornsyrup.org]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== sivang [n=sivang@ubuntu/member/sivang]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Riddell [n=jr@kde/jriddell]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== anibal [n=nnnnnams@debian/developer/anibal]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.14]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== AlinuxOS [n=Ubuntu@d83-176-83-92.cust.tele2.it]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== AlinuxSOS [n=Ubuntu@d83-176-83-92.cust.tele2.it]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== AlinuxOS [n=Ubuntu@d83-176-83-92.cust.tele2.it]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mxpxpod [n=bryan@unaffiliated/mxpxpod]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:19] <mdz> Kamion: is the xpdf in anastacia.txt another instance of the bug you fixed in germinate?  Depends: xpdf-reader | pdf-viewer
=== pietrus [n=pietrus@tor/session/x-8defc2a1e79f4b21]  has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] 
[02:22] <Keybuk> hmm, this router promises to Unleash Networking Power
[02:22] <Keybuk> I do hope Tony Robbins doesn't come round on Friday to install it
[02:23] <sivang> mdz: I've emailed you, I have to hit bed now...good night.
[02:24] <Keybuk> "Firstly, in order to plug a computer into the Business Broadband service you will need to have an available Ethernet socket on your computer, which is not supplied as part of this pack."
[02:24] <mdz> your computer is not supplied with the unit?
[02:24] <mjg59> Ooh ooh ooh aigl is SO SHINY
[02:25] <Keybuk> mdz: indeed, a disappointment I must say
=== jinty [n=jinty@196-28-44-135.jhb.netdial.co.za]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:36] <france> Burgwork: would u send me an e-mail to france@handhelds.org?
[02:36] <france> Burgwork: with e-mails addresses of the folks involved etc....
[02:37] <florian> good night
=== dolson [n=dana@d235-185-252.home1.cgocable.net]  has left #ubuntu-devel ["leaving..] 
=== ptlo [n=senko@83-131-14-135.adsl.net.t-com.hr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== reggaemanu_ [n=manu@ARennes-257-1-98-177.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:53] <mjg59> infinity: Version of fglrx in lrm doesn't seem to match userspace
[02:53] <mjg59> Hilarity ensues
[02:53] <Keybuk> mjg59: what's aigl?
[02:54] <mjg59> Keybuk: Accelerated indirect gl
[02:54] <infinity> mjg59: ...?
[02:54] <infinity> mjg59: Does here.  amd64 or i386?
[02:54] <mjg59> infinity: amd64
[02:54] <infinity> mjg59: Have you been forcefully update to the -16 kernels yet?
[02:54] <infinity> updated, too?
[02:54] <mjg59> infinity: I'm on -16, yes
[02:55] <mjg59> Oh, hang on
[02:55] <mjg59> Sorry, it just booted -15 again
[02:55] <mjg59> Ah! I installed lrm for -16, but not the kernel itself. Sorry!
[02:55] <infinity> Yeah, linux-meta still needs to get through the queue and into the archive, I guess.
=== zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:56] <mjg59> Keybuk: On a dist-upgraded machine, I just got an eth0_clashed device
[02:56] <infinity> Oh, hah, there it is.
[02:56] <Keybuk> mjg59: does the mac in /etc/iftab match the mac of the card?
[02:57] <mjg59> Keybuk: Only one card has an entry in iftab, and it matches eth0 rather than eth0_clashed
[02:58] <Keybuk> can you elaborate a bit there ...
[02:58] <Keybuk> you have two cards, but only one is mentioned in /etc/iftab?
[02:58] <Keybuk> and the one mentioned in /etc/iftab has the "eth0" name and not the "eth0_clashed" name?
[02:58] <mjg59> Keybuk: Correct
[02:58] <Keybuk> ok
[02:58] <Keybuk> that's fine then
[02:58] <Keybuk> it's behaving exactly right
[02:58] <mjg59> Uhm.
[02:58] <Keybuk> the card you wanted to be called eth0 is called eth0
[02:59] <mjg59> This is an odd definition of "right"
[02:59] <Keybuk> you haven't given the other card a name
[02:59] <mjg59> Why not then call the other one eth1?
[02:59] <Keybuk> I will
[02:59] <Keybuk> the code is just #if 0...#endif'd so I can see it working right first
[02:59] <mjg59> So by "correct" you mean "incorrect but not implemented yet"?
[02:59] <mjg59> Ah, ok
[02:59] <Keybuk> it's harder to discover whether the "eth1" got that name by accident or deliberate action
[02:59] <Keybuk> but the _clashed thing shows up like a sore thumb and helps me debug when it goes wrong
=== BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:04] <Keybuk> mjg59: was this a fresh install/upgrade and reboot?
=== SloMoSnail [n=slomo@p5487F91F.dip.t-dialin.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:04] <mjg59> Keybuk: Nope, upgrade from breezy
[03:04] <Keybuk> have you rebooted?
[03:04] <mjg59> Yes
[03:04] <Keybuk> do you have a /var/log/udev ?
[03:04] <mjg59> Nope
[03:04] <Keybuk> bah
[03:05] <Keybuk> /dev/.udev.log ?
[03:05] <mjg59> Nope
[03:06] <Keybuk> mustn't have made it into the archive in time for your update then :-/
[03:06] <Keybuk> you have udev ubuntu 13?
[03:06] <Keybuk> heh, that upset ubugtu
=== seth_ [n=seth@ubuntu/member/seth]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:08] <mjg59> Sorry, it's just rebooting again
=== jsgotangco [n=jsg@210.4.38.43]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:12] <infinity> Oh hey, lookie there, NetworkManager works again.
[03:12] <Keybuk> pitti finished breaking it?
[03:12] <infinity> Yes. :)
[03:13] <Keybuk> he was clearly trying out the Keybuk school of uploads
[03:13] <Keybuk> break everything, then pick up the pieces :p
=== mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:15] <Mez> grr...
[03:15] <Keybuk> right, quick reboot before bed I think
[03:15] <Mez> If feature freeze is tomorrow... what happens to stuff in the NEW queue before then ? does it just get ignored?
[03:15] <Mez> or will it get in eventually
[03:15] <Keybuk> Mez: feature freeze largely concerns specification-related work
[03:15] <infinity> It'll get looked at.
[03:16] <Keybuk> if it's in NEW, it's clearly "done"
[03:16] <Keybuk> it's the date we drop the specs, and start on the bugs
[03:16] <Keybuk> of course, it's entirely allowed to shove your feature work in at the last minute
[03:16] <Keybuk> and then legitimately spend the next month working on all the bugs in it :)
[03:17] <Mez> Keybuk: lol - I just want to get iFolder into universe :D
[03:18] <Mez> and whoevers' been reviewing NEW lately either has a massive work load or is busy doing other sutff
[03:18] <Keybuk> actually, I don't think anyone's been able to do NEW reviews with the shift to launchpad
[03:18] <Keybuk> I only listened with a fraction of an ear on that though
=== herzi [n=herzi@c153053.adsl.hansenet.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:20] <LaserJock> I thought Kamion was working on NEW today, but I could be wrong
[03:21] <Mez> Keybuk: lol - good to hear that soyuz has made so many things impossible
[03:21] <Keybuk> amongst a thousand other things, I suspect, yes
[03:21] <Mez> (like backports, security uploads, new)
[03:21] <Keybuk> Mez: not impossible, just teething problems; expected in an archive switch, and will be all shiny and better by the time dapper is done
[03:21] <Keybuk> soyuz has also made so many things much easier
[03:21] <Keybuk> like udebs not needing to be BYHANDed every upload
[03:22] <Mez> lol:D
[03:22] <Mez> true ... but - meh - backports arent currently possible :D
[03:22] <Keybuk> *shrug* who cares about backports
[03:22] <Keybuk> :D
[03:22] <Mez> Keybuk, many many many users
[03:23] <Mez> and anyone who doesnt know how to/cant be bothered/cant learn how to package their own stuff
[03:23] <Mez> If I want anything backported
[03:23] <LaserJock> Mez: do you have an idea of how many backports there are? I'm just curious.
[03:23] <Mez> I backport it :d
[03:23] <Mez> http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy-backports/allpackages
[03:25] <LaserJock> Mez: is the policy still no packports for packages that would need changes?
=== reggaemanu [n=manu@ARennes-257-1-98-177.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:26] <Mez> LaserJock, pretty much
[03:26] <Mez> unless we make the changes in dapper and they work in dapper and breezy
[03:26] <Mez> though that may eventually change with hct 
[03:26] <Mez> I hope
=== bmonty [n=bmontgom@ubuntu/member/bmonty]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:27] <LaserJock> hmm, that's a fair amount that you're still able to backport it seems. Everything I wanted to backport had to have dependency changes. Granted it was only 1 or 2 packages
[03:29] <Mez> LaserJock, yeh - we're pretty lucky with this one...
[03:30] <Mez> breezy/dapper havent really had any major changes
[03:30] <Mez> so everything seems plain sailing enough
=== sistpoty [n=sistpoty@DSL01.83.171.152.33.NEFkom.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:30] <mjg59> Are any builds actually happening at the moment?
[03:30] <mjg59> There's a huge pile of stuff in the queue
[03:31] <Mez> mjg59, well adare is broken
[03:31] <infinity> Mez: Which doesn't relate.
[03:32] <infinity> mjg59: It looks like the buildds are all idle.  <grumble>... Will need a Kinnison or cprov to hunt that down until I have access to look at that stuff myself.
[03:32] <Mez> but the buildds seem to have stopped building 45 mins ago
[03:33] <infinity> mjg59: Err, wait.  I don't see anything in state PENDING, except for backports packages..
[03:34] <Mez> there are backports packages pending 
[03:34] <Mez> ?
[03:34] <Mez> o_O
[03:34] <Mez> thought backport packages werent possible atm
[03:34] <mjg59> Oh! Sorry, it's the backports.
[03:34] <infinity> Backports and updates, yes.
[03:34] <infinity> I think the last code drop was meant to start on the road to gettting -backports and -updates buildable.
[03:34] <Mez> infinity - where can you see the lists (Pending, NEW etc)
[03:34] <infinity> So, the stuff is in the queue, it won't build just yet.
=== mjg59 wonders where his x11proto stuff has gone, then
[03:35] <infinity> Mez: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+builds
[03:35] <infinity> mjg59: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/x11proto-gl/1.4.3-0ubuntu6 for instance?
[03:36] <mjg59> infinity: Yeah. The one with "no builds recorded"
[03:36] <infinity> mjg59: Looks like it hasn't even been picked up by the queubuilder yet.  Whether that's a bug or impatience on your part, I'm not sure.
[03:36] <Mez> infinity: Quick Question to you regarding a bug for unrar-nonfree in debian
[03:36] <mjg59> infinity: Ah, I see it only hit the queue quite a while after it was uploaded. Probably just me being impatient, then
[03:36] <infinity> mjg59: Could just be impatience.  The New World Order takes a while for stuff to shove through.
[03:36] <infinity> Mez: Shoot.
[03:36] <Mez> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=352089
[03:37] <Mez> infinity that bug I forwarded on to Eugene 
[03:37] <Mez> who basically replied "unrar isnt being told to do anything - so it doesnt return an error code"
[03:37] <Mez> RAR and UnRAR without parameters print the help screen and exit
[03:37] <Mez> with 0 code. It is not a syntax error and I see no reason to return
[03:37] <Mez> non-zero exit code. I've checked several other command line archivers
[03:37] <Mez> (Windows versions of arj, pkzip, infozip) and their behavior is
[03:37] <Mez> the same.
[03:38] <Mez> is what he replied.
[03:38] <Mez> Should I close the bug?
[03:38] <infinity> Mez: But it's being invoked with an unknown options.
[03:38] <infinity> s/an //
[03:38] <infinity> I assume, anyway.  "unrar foo.rar" can't possibly be a valid way to call it.
[03:39] <infinity> I dunno.
[03:39] <infinity> Mez: I don't see "called with invalid options" being the same as "called with no options", but that's between you, upstream, and the bug submitter.
[03:40] <Mez> ok
[03:42] <infinity> Mez: Regarding #328166, he /did/ provide the .rar file as an attachment in the previous comment. :)
[03:43] <Mez> did he?
=== Mez grabs
=== mxpxpod [n=bryan@unaffiliated/mxpxpod]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== SEJeff [n=SEJeff@12-211-125-247.client.insightbb.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-209-217-83-211.d-ip.magma.ca]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== marcin` [n=user@194.114.146.58]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Burglaptop [n=corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== stub [n=stub@ppp-58.10.74.222.revip2.asianet.co.th]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:26] <Mez> hmm - a lot of devs seem to use a shell which shows the cwd on the right hand of ths ecreen
[04:26] <Mez> whats used to do this ?
[04:27] <LaserJock> hmm, are there mirrors for the Flight 4 isos?
=== nictuku [n=yves@unaffiliated/nictuku]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:29] <crimsun> here's one: http://se.archive.ubuntu.com/mirror/cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/dapper/flight-4/
[04:30] <LaserJock> crimsun: ah thanks. that is much better
[04:41] <CarlFK> shouldn't dapper-server be a 300mb install?
[04:41] <CarlFK> not dapper boot:server, but http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/current/
[04:42] <LaserJock> CarlFK: I'm not sure
[04:43] <LaserJock> CarlFK: maybe they just filled up the space with server goodies :-)
[04:43] <CarlFK> looks like it grabbed ubuntu-desktop_0.98_i386.deb 
[04:43] <infinity> CarlFK: I'm not sure I understand the question.  You mean the installation should take 300 MB on disk, or the ISO should be 300MB?
[04:44] <CarlFK> install on disk
[04:44] <infinity> CarlFK: Ahh.  Yeah, there's some work to be done to fix the server install right now.  It's known.
[04:44] <infinity> (And fix the seeds too, so we don't end up with any desktop cruft on the CD)
[04:45] <CarlFK> ok, I was re-aranging things and thought maybe I got mixed up 
[04:46] <CarlFK> who  thought that dapper-install-i386.iso and dapper-install-i386.iso were good names for the images?
[04:50] <infinity> No one thinks those are good names, trust me. :)
[04:51] <infinity> Kamion's planning to rename things to a state where they can all live happily in the same directory and scrap the subdirectories.
[04:51] <infinity> I believe.
=== france [n=france@pool-151-203-238-32.bos.east.verizon.net]  has left #ubuntu-devel ["Client] 
[04:55] <CarlFK> what a splinded idea 
=== shaya [n=spotter@user-0ccembr.cable.mindspring.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== SEJeff [n=SEJeff@12-211-125-247.client.insightbb.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Burglaptop [n=corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[05:28] <CarlFK> installed dapper-server (and got it right this time) then apt-get install ubuntu-lite-desktop - saw this fly by: /tmp/xserver-xorg.config.37761: line 30: laptop-detect: command not found
[05:29] <CarlFK> is that worth posting to launchpad?
[05:29] <crimsun> ...there's a ubuntu-lite-desktop? 
[05:30] <infinity> Yeah.  It shouldn't be doing that in the config script (or it should be guarded)
[05:30] <CarlFK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallingUbuntuLite
[05:30] <infinity> CarlFK: Please file a bug, so I don't forget about it.
[05:30] <CarlFK> will do
[05:30] <crimsun> aha, external repo.
[05:31] <CarlFK> yes, but I think just one meta-package
[05:32] <CarlFK> infinity: package name?
[05:32] <infinity> binary: xserver-xorg, source: xorg
[05:37] <CarlFK> infinity: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/32422
[05:37] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32422 in xorg xserver-xorg "xserver-xorg.config laptop-detect not found" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[05:38] <infinity> Danke.
=== Burglaptop [n=corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[05:38] <CarlFK> I am seeing lots of: Fontconfig error: Cannot load default config file
[05:38] <CarlFK> post?
[05:38] <infinity> Yes, that will happen on every font installation until fontconfig is configured.
[05:39] <infinity> A longstanding bug.  Already filed.
[05:39] <CarlFK> k
[05:39] <infinity> It's harmless, but someone really should fix it so it stops scaring people (and generating bug reports), I suppose. :)
[05:40] <Burglaptop> infinity: on bootup, one of the strings says "Will not check root file system". For consistency, it should read "Checking root file system"
[05:40] <Burglaptop> infinity: didn't know which package I should file that on
[05:40] <infinity> Burglaptop: s/not/now/, I hope. :)
[05:41] <Burglaptop> infinity: yes
[05:41] <Burglaptop> :)
[05:41] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ grep "Will now check" /etc/init.d/*
[05:41] <infinity> /etc/init.d/checkfs.sh: [ "$VERBOSE" != no ]  && log_action_msg "Will now check all file systems"
[05:41] <infinity> /etc/init.d/checkroot.sh:               log_action_msg "Will now check root file system"
[05:41] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ dpkg -S /etc/init.d/checkroot.sh /etc/init.d/checkfs.sh
[05:41] <infinity> initscripts: /etc/init.d/checkroot.sh
[05:41] <infinity> initscripts: /etc/init.d/checkfs.sh
[05:41] <infinity> (Helping users help themselves, next on Fox)
[05:42] <Burglaptop> infinity: shall I file or will you fix?
[05:43] <infinity> File away.  initscripts is keybuk's baby currently, and I'm swamped.
=== highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[05:51] <Burglaptop> salut highvoltage
=== `anthony [n=anthony@ekorp-203-63-137-225.eoff.ekorp.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zakame [n=zak@210.213.72.247]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:00] <Burglaptop> infinity: do you know if mvo's automatic updater is going to be ready for dapper?
[06:00] <infinity> Burglaptop: I sure hope so.
[06:01] <Burglaptop> infinity: less words for me to write to
[06:02] <Burglaptop> s/to/too
=== irvin [n=irvin@ubuntu/member/irvin]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== shaya [n=spotter@user-0ccembr.cable.mindspring.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:27] <shaya> is /var/run/mysqld not supposed to be a+x ?
[06:28] <shaya> regular users can't connect to mysqld.sock
=== zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:32] <wasabi> Hey, there any creative way to boot using grub on my system to root=/the/livecd?
[06:32] <wasabi> Kernel in my /boot, /root someplace else.
[06:34] <infinity> shaya: Yes, on my bug list.
=== huahua [n=hua@221.172.48.12]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:34] <shaya> does reportbug file bugs?
[06:34] <shaya> just did one via it
[06:34] <infinity> shaya: I guess since I've been asked twice in two days about that one, I should just upload.
[06:34] <infinity> shaya: reportbug mails bugs to ubuntu-users... A bit suboptimal. :/
[06:35] <shaya> no one wants integration w/ it it via malone?
[06:35] <infinity> shaya: Until we get some sort of gateway for reportbug, best to report bugs directly in Malone.
[06:35] <infinity> shaya: Oh, we want integration, the Malone developers haven't given me an interface to throw bugs at yet, that's all. :)
=== fabbione [i=fabbione@gordian.fabbione.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Aegir [n=richard@d58-104-19-27.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== marilize [n=marilize@196.36.161.235]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[07:50] <dieman> ooo, installable beagle!
[07:52] <jsgotangco> ?
=== pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[07:54] <pitti> Good morning
=== viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Lorenzod [n=lorenzod@63.218.103.162]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[08:25] <fabbione> bug 32428
[08:25] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32428 in gconf2 "gconftool-2 turns living people into wormfood" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32428
=== dholbach [n=daniel@i577B3249.versanet.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[08:26] <fabbione> ah here he is
[08:26] <fabbione> dholbach: 
[08:26] <fabbione> bug 32428
[08:26] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32428 in gconf2 "gconftool-2 turns living people into wormfood" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32428
[08:26] <fabbione> please fix.. now
[08:26] <fabbione> :)
[08:26] <dholbach> hello fabbione
[08:26] <dholbach> hello everybody else
[08:27] <fabbione> dholbach: hey dude
[08:27] <dholbach> fabbione: that's a duplicate of bug 28744
[08:27] <Ubugtu> malone bug 28744 in gconf2 "gconftool-2 very slow" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28744
[08:28] <dholbach> but thanks for the encouragement and faith you have in us.
[08:29] <fabbione> dholbach: my bug report is better :)
[08:30] <dholbach> oh well :)
[08:30] <fabbione> dholbach: ETA for a fix?
=== fabbione larts dholbach gently
[08:30] <dholbach> as seb already said on the other bug: that's not trivial to fix
=== mpt_ [n=mpt@219-89-143-238.jetstart.xtra.co.nz]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[08:30] <dholbach> i can't give ETAs, but I promise to look into it
[08:32] <fabbione> dholbach: thanks
=== Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@84.5.57.99]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== chmj [n=chmj@196.44.1.98]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[08:43] <sivang> mdz: still around?
[08:45] <jsgotangco> now that's a bug report
=== j^_ [n=j@e178060177.adsl.alicedsl.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jdub_ [n=jdub@ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== lloydinho [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== vuntz [n=vuntz@fennas.vuntz.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[08:57] <fabbione> infinity: ping?
[08:58] <pitti> dholbach: would it be technically possible at all to switch the primary gconf source back to split files?
[08:58] <pitti> dholbach: since the huge combined file is what makes it so slow, right?
[08:59] <pitti> dholbach: (on writing, that is)
=== lixus [n=lixuss@lixus.dtm.ops.eu.uu.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[09:00] <dholbach> pitti: I can't really tell. I'd need to look into it.
[09:00] <dholbach> pitti: since seb worked on it and with the Debian folks
[09:00] <pitti> Kamion, mdz: you recently approved upgrading postgresql-8.1 to the new microversion; similar microreleases are available for 7.4 and 8.0 with even fewer bug fixes, and they are universe; can I assume that I can update them as well?
[09:01] <pitti> dholbach: alright, thanks
[09:01] <Chipzz> I'ld say it's an upstream bug that you can't register/unregister mulptiple schema's at once
[09:03] <Mithrandir> can't we use a real db backend instead of XML?
=== mpt [n=mpt@222-154-183-61.jetstream.xtra.co.nz]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[09:04] <Chipzz> aren't the translations stored in the xml too?
=== milli [n=milli@phantom.acmeps.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jdub [n=jdub@ppp121-112.static.internode.on.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== [gijoework]  [n=[gijoe] @cacher3.ericsson.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mvo [n=egon@p54A652EB.dip.t-dialin.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== pvanhoof [n=pvanhoof@mailhost.newtec.be]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[09:30] <infinity> fabbione: pong.
[09:31] <fabbione> infinity: pitti wants to talk with you about ssl-cert grp & co :)
[09:31] <fabbione> pitti: be gentle ok? :)
[09:32] <infinity> pitti: Do your worst. :)
=== carlos [n=carlos@62.87.126.154]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ompaul [n=ompaul@213-202-162-127.bas503.dsl.esat.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[09:35] <pitti> re
[09:35] <fabbione> bah he went for breakfast..
=== viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[09:36] <pitti> infinity: so, what now? "Please, Adam, when do you plan to upload ssl-cert, so that I can upload postgresql-common for snakeoil cert?" or "Upload this damn thing by feature freeze, man!" :)
[09:37] <infinity> pitti: Both!
[09:37] <pitti> self.split()
[09:37] <infinity> pitti: You're just missing the group (and group readability of the private key), right?
[09:37] <pitti> infinity: yes, right
[09:37] <pitti> will you do any other changes to it which might need modifications for psql?
[09:38] <infinity> I'll upload for that, plus Fabio's changes in SVN, tonight, then.  And I'll do the other upload (more bugfixes I wanted, etc), post-feature-freeze.
[09:38] <pitti> that sounds good
[09:38] <pitti> I'll prepare the new branch then
[09:38] <infinity> pitti: The interface isn't excepted to change.  If it works now (modulo file permissions), it'll keep working.
[09:38] <infinity> s/excepted/expected/
[09:38] <pitti> infinity: it will be 1.0-11ubuntu2, or will you sync against Debian or so?
[09:39] <pitti> infinity: nice typo :)
[09:40] <infinity> 1.0.11.0ubuntu1, just to confuse you.
[09:40] <infinity> (It's debian-native, the version is changing the reflect that... Next Debian upload will be 1.0.12)
[09:40] <pitti> heh, good to know
[09:40] <infinity> You can therefore use (>> 1.0.11) and it'll work great for both dists.
=== olemke [n=olemke@iup.physik.uni-bremen.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== lmanul [n=manu@dan75-4-82-239-58-38.fbx.proxad.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== lionelp [n=lionel@ip-128.net-82-216-65.rev.numericable.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mpt [n=mpt@222-154-183-61.jetstream.xtra.co.nz]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:07] <Kamion> pitti: yes, should be no problem with similar bug-fix UVF breaks for postgresql in universe
[10:07] <Kamion> Mez: I'm working my way through NEW; halved the size of the queue yesterday
[10:08] <infinity> pitti: postgres doesn't need to be able to read the directory, does it?  Just traverse and get at the file?
=== pitti checks code
[10:08] <Kamion> Mez: and for the record, ifolder3 has been in NEW for 5 hours 50 minutes, so you appear to have complained about the size of the NEW queue about three minutes after uploading it ;-)
[10:08] <infinity> pitti: Just trying to minimise the scariness of changing the dir from 700, by at least changing it to 710 instead of 750.
[10:09] <Kamion> oh, hmm, maybe three minutes before. ENOTENOUGHCOFFEEYET
[10:09] <pitti> infinity: right; it needs to check the presence of that file in pg_createcluster, but that happens as root
=== infinity ponders.
[10:09] <infinity> Ugh.
[10:09] <pitti> infinity: after that, you only need to be able to follow a symlink to the snakeoil key as postgres
[10:10] <infinity> That directory ships 700 in openssl.  openssl can't very well depend on ssl-cert, that'd just be wrong.  Maybe the snakeoil private key should be in /etc/ssl/private-snakeoil or something instead. :/
[10:10] <infinity> fabbione: pong.
[10:10] <infinity> fabbione: ping, too.
[10:10] <pitti> infinity: oh shit
[10:11] <fabbione> infinity: yes one sec...
[10:11] <infinity> pitti: I mean, I could just alter the permissions of that directory in my postinst (and alter it back if ssl-cert gets removed), but that feels dirty.
[10:12] <pitti> infinity: with dpkg-statoverride, I presume? or is the directory created in openssl's postinst?
[10:12] <pitti> hm, no, it's shipped
[10:12] <infinity> pitti: The directory is shipped.
=== davidme [n=davidme@vp078.atm01.sea.blarg.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:13] <pitti> infinity: hm, everyone can already see that this directory exists, and it's no secret anyway; do you see any security implications with 710? (I don't)
[10:13] <infinity> pitti: Not that it matters, since dpkg doesn't touch directory permission changes, AFAIR.
[10:14] <pitti> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 128 2006-02-13 18:54 /etc/ssl/private
[10:14] <pitti> urgh
[10:14] <infinity> See? :)
[10:14] <pitti> I'm not aware of ever having changed that on my desktop
[10:14] <infinity> You must have changed it when testing pgsql/ssl-cert stuff.
[10:14] <infinity> I hope.
[10:14] <pitti> infinity: I did that on my laptop in London only
[10:14] <infinity> Oh.  Neat!
[10:15] <fabbione>  4 drwx------   2 root root 4096 2005-12-18 17:10 private
[10:15] <fabbione> this is on fresh install
[10:15] <fabbione> so you will need 750 private and chgrp ssl-cert private
[10:15] <infinity> 710
[10:15] <fabbione> or something along that line
=== seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:15] <pitti> hey seb128 
[10:16] <fabbione> infinity: you still need to be able to read from it, don't you?
[10:16] <seb128> hi pitti
[10:16] <pitti> fabbione: not for postgresql
[10:16] <infinity> I don't like the idea of a daemon running in the ssl-cert group being able to randomly scan through there.
[10:16] <fabbione> pitti: ok
[10:16] <fabbione> infinity: yes, make sense if it works..
[10:16] <fabbione> :)
[10:16] <fabbione> and it works for me
[10:16] <fabbione> so go ahead
[10:17] <infinity> You don't need to be able to read the directory if you know the filename you want.
[10:17] <infinity> And we do, by design. :)
[10:17] <seb128> fabbione: thanks for not deciding the milestone for the maintainer and your gconf one is a dup 
[10:18] <fabbione> seb128: dholbach told me about the dup.. 
[10:19] <fabbione> seb128: but it needs to be fixed.. it's unbearable
[10:19] <seb128> and we decided that the tradeoff installation runtime was ok
[10:19] <fabbione> who decided?
[10:19] <seb128> mdz
[10:19] <fabbione> i will talk with him
[10:19] <seb128> sure
[10:20] <fabbione> i find it amusing that building a kernel takes me less time than upgrading a package
[10:20] <seb128> anyway we are in a tricky position to revert now
[10:20] <seb128> and that's not a good time to rewritte gconf backend to use something else than xml
[10:20] <fabbione> seb128: i have another idea instead
[10:20] <pitti> people installing with espresso won't feel this pain so much, right?
[10:20] <fabbione> but i wanted to discuss it with you, dholbach, pitti and infinity 
[10:20] <seb128> which is?
[10:21] <fabbione> well there are several packages that needs to run always the same set of commands during upgrades
[10:21] <fabbione> that is scrollkeeper, gconftool-2 and others...
[10:21] <seb128> pitti: there is no such much slowness, out of gnome-applets and gnome-games which ship a lot of schemas other packages are mostly fine
[10:21] <pitti> fabbione: dpkg triggers ;)
[10:21] <fabbione> these 2 are the ones that bites the most
=== mvo thinks of .... 'triggers'
[10:21] <seb128> fabbione: no, gconf doesn't act that way
[10:21] <seb128> scrollkeeper rebuild the base
=== mpt_ [n=mpt@219-89-156-35.jetstart.xtra.co.nz]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:21] <fabbione> seb128: please let me finish one sec :)
[10:21] <Chipzz> fabbione: no, dpkg triggers won't help you for gconf
[10:21] <seb128> gconf writes key
[10:22] <fabbione> Chipzz: as above
[10:22] <seb128> fabbione: you can"t run "gconf base building" after installation
[10:22] <fabbione> if you let me finish
[10:22] <seb128> k
[10:22] <fabbione> each of these commands have their own sintax and "features"
[10:22] <Chipzz> seb128: talking about "base building", is a solution needed for gstreamer plugins?
[10:22] <seb128> we .xml has to be parsed to write every key, I doubt any of your "tricks" will change that
[10:22] <seb128> Chipzz: no
=== vuntz_ [n=vuntz@volin.imag.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:23] <Kamion> pitti: not as much, no
[10:23] <fabbione> so building a generic framework is not easy
[10:23] <seb128> s/we/the
[10:23] <Chipzz> seb128: cfr recent thread on desktop-devel wrt to startup-time
[10:23] <seb128> Chipzz: we didn't get any bug about that
[10:23] <fabbione> but what can be done is at least to get run gconf or scrollkeepr all in one go
[10:23] <fabbione> or
[10:23] <seb128> and I've no startup time issue here
[10:23] <fabbione> many times as required in a loop
[10:23] <Kamion> fabbione: the gconf and scrollkeeper cases are really very different
[10:24] <seb128> fabbione: scrollkeeper can, there is a db-update comment, not gconf
[10:24] <fabbione> to at least take advantage of the file cache in ram
[10:24] <Kamion> scrollkeeper's very easy to divert away and just run once at the end
[10:24] <Kamion> gconftool is called with radically different arguments each time, so isn't so easy
[10:24] <seb128> gconf has to be called on every schemas
[10:24] <seb128> and that would not make it faster to call it one time after installation
[10:24] <fabbione> please read the lines i wrote as last before both of you have gone to a problem i am aware of
[10:24] <Chipzz> Kamion: not radically different arguments, just with a different filename every time
[10:25] <fabbione> seb128: it will make it faster if you call it in a loop with all the different args, instead of calling it N times in the middle of an upgrade
[10:25] <seb128> fabbione: I've read everything you said, there is no file cache in ram acting here
[10:25] <Kamion> fabbione: I read them, doesn't help particularly given that it's being called from different packages and can't easily be consolidated
[10:25] <fabbione> Kamion: that can be fixed changing the way in which gconftool-2 is called.
[10:26] <seb128> fabbione: your slowness it probably one one or 2 packages that takes several minutes to process and already " call it in a loop with all the different args" in fact
[10:26] <fabbione> queuing up the request, tracking how many and what requests have been done
[10:26] <Kamion> fabbione: sorry, wontfix, not putting obscene hacks in the installer for this.
[10:26] <fabbione> and the last package flush the queue
[10:26] <Kamion> this is too hacky
[10:26] <fabbione> Kamion: did i mention installer anywhere? i am talking about something different
[10:26] <seb128> and will not be useful
[10:26] <Chipzz> for schema in "$@"; do
[10:26] <Chipzz>   if [ `echo "$schema" | cut -c1` != / ] ; then
[10:26] <Chipzz>     schema="$schema_location"/"$schema"
[10:26] <Chipzz>   fi
[10:26] <Chipzz>   if [ -e $schema ] ; then
[10:26] <Chipzz>     HOME="$tmp_home" GCONF_CONFIG_SOURCE=xml:merged:/var/lib/gconf/defaults \
[10:27] <Chipzz>         gconftool-2 "$option" "$schema" >/dev/null
[10:27] <seb128> that's what we do atm right
[10:27] <Mithrandir> seb128: do you happen to know what part is taking so long?  I suspect it's parsing the monolithic file, BICBW.
[10:27] <Chipzz> snippet from /usr/sbin/gconf-schemas
[10:27] <seb128> Mithrandir: it is parsing the file
[10:27] <Mithrandir> seb128: so if we used another backend, say a regular database, it should go faster?
=== ealden [n=ealden@203.76.213.42]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:28] <Mithrandir> seb128: (I realise this may be dapper+1 material, though)
[10:28] <seb128> Mithrandir: probably but
[10:28] <seb128> <seb128> and that's not a good time to rewritte gconf backend to use something else than xml
[10:28] <seb128> right
[10:28] <Mithrandir> seb128: agreed.
[10:28] <Chipzz> Mithrandir: how do you propose to store translations in a db? that will get very ugly very fast
[10:28] <fabbione> this is a torture for users...
[10:29] <Mithrandir> Chipzz: depends on what database, really.  If you use sqlite, say you use one db per language.
[10:29] <Mithrandir> Chipzz: (just as an off-the-top-of-my-head suggestion)
[10:29] <seb128> fabbione: users upgrade once from one distro to next one, if that takes 5-10 extra minutes they can live with it
[10:29] <Chipzz> I agree that it's torture
[10:30] <dholbach> ... since their resulting system is faster.
[10:30] <Chipzz> but I think this is very much an upstream issue
[10:30] <seb128> Chipzz: if that was a were state you would be in trouble :p
[10:30] <Chipzz> several issues as a matter of fact
[10:30] <seb128> s/were/war
[10:30] <Mithrandir> seb128: it also means installing new packages will be a lot slower, though.
[10:30] <Chipzz> seb128: what exactly were you commenting on? :)
[10:30] <seb128> Chipzz: what torture is exactly
[10:31] <fabbione> seb128: it's not just install or upgrades from release to release. As you might notice, we all test gnome everytime you upload...
[10:31] <seb128> fabbione: I agree the installation time sucks, but there is nothing easy we can do to fix it
[10:32] <seb128> changing the way gconftool is called will not change the way it parses the xml for every key it writes and the number of keys stay the same
=== bmon [n=monnahan@99.Red-83-37-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:32] <fabbione> seb128: does gconftool-2 spend time on I/O or CPU processing?
[10:32] <fabbione> how do you access this xml file basically...
[10:32] <seb128> fabbione: I parses a 10-20M xml file an hundred of time
[10:32] <mvo> seb128: could we make it write some (very basic) status information? maybe something like "updateing schemas ..." and a "." every 10-30s or something? so that people see it's still alive? 
[10:32] <seb128> it parses I mean
[10:33] <mvo> I'm thinking especially about older machines where it can take (literally) minutes 
[10:33] <fabbione> seb128: yes clearly i never saw you in front of my pc parsing XML :P
[10:33] <seb128> ;)
[10:33] <mvo> fabbione: we are talking about *magic* seb here
[10:33] <mvo> he is a bit like the hogfather ;)
[10:35] <fabbione> seb128: do you think there is space to optimize the parsing code?
[10:35] <fabbione> like reducing the amount of times the file get parsed?
[10:35] <seb128> that's possible yep
[10:35] <seb128> there is place to put a cache or something imho
[10:35] <fabbione> seb128: so why are you still here talking to me instead of fixing it ? :P
[10:35] <seb128> like if a schemas has 20 keys to write, not parsing the base 20 times
[10:36] <fabbione> that would speed up a lot :)
[10:36] <seb128> but that's not the sort of change that would be trivial to do and I don't want to break gconf for dapper
[10:36] <fabbione> seb128: does gconf2 comes with a testsuite?
[10:36] <seb128> no
[10:36] <fabbione> or is it on the wave of "test at your own risk"...
[10:36] <fabbione> i guess the latter.. suck
[10:37] <seb128> there is some tests with the tarball but I would not rely on it only
[10:39] <seb128> I've started to make some change before distro sprint in fact, I think we could speed it up by a factor 2 quite easily but that will still be quite slow ...
[10:40] <fabbione> seb128: can you point me to the function that does the file parsing?
[10:41] <fabbione> at least you can save me the time to learn all the code in there
[10:41] <infinity> mvo: Output from postinsts (unless REALLY necessary) is just ugly, IMO.  We need to get rid of what we have, not add more.
[10:42] <mvo> infinity: why? people who are interessted in it like to see what is going on. everyone else should use a frontend that hides the dpkg/script chatter anyway
[10:43] <seb128> fabbione: I don't know that codebase sorry. The xml parsing stuff are probably to gconf2-2.13.5/backends/xml-entry.c
[10:44] <infinity> mvo: But where do we draw the line between "useful output" and "too much"?.... I could put all sort of "doing this:" and "doing that:" in my postinsts, just cause I think it's nice to know what's going on.
[10:45] <mvo> infinity: sure, that's all a bit blurry. but my machine showing: "confiugring gnome-panel-data" for 10min can make me think that it had died. some sort of progress indication for really long runing tasks is usefull IMHO
[10:45] <fabbione> seb128: ok
[10:45] <infinity> mvo: Policy 3.9 starts out with "The package installation scripts should avoid producing output which is unnecessary for the user to see and should rely on dpkg to stave off boredom on the part of a user installing many packages. This means, amongst other things, using the --quiet option on install-info."  While the example given (install-info) is obviously dated, the point still makes sense.
[10:45] <Kamion> policy kind of assumes that packages won't take forever and a week to install
[10:45] <Kamion> (rightly so, I think)
[10:45] <sladen> mjg59: I have a report of HP NWXXXX with copmletely different special key mappings
[10:45] <infinity> mvo: Fair enough, though I've not noticed any of it taking 10 minutes, just taking "a bit longer than I'd like".
[10:46] <sladen> mjg59: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/HPNW8240/Kubuntu and grep for "Hi Luka"
[10:46] <Treenaks> sladen: my 8240 is normal
=== lfittl [n=lfittl@83-65-245-16.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:50] <sladen> Treenaks: is that /exactly/ the same model number?  could you drop to a console and run showkey -u  and see if you see the same things
=== j^_ is now known as j^
[10:50] <sladen> Treenaks: for bonus points, try with   /etc/init.d/hotkey-setup stop   too which will tell us if we already did the remapping
=== raphink [n=ubuntu@ubuntu/member/raphink]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:50] <Treenaks> sladen: I have a NW8240
=== raphink is having a great fun with compiz on Dapper Flight 4 
[10:51] <Treenaks> sladen:         Product Name: HP Compaq nw8240 (PG818ET#ABU)
[10:51] <Treenaks> sladen: (that's demidecode)
=== raphink [n=ubuntu@ubuntu/member/raphink]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:53] <mvo> infinity: ok, you are right. it takes only 3min to install gnome-panel-data on my dated p3/1200.
[10:53] <raphink> I can't seem to get this transparent windows effect 
[10:53] <raphink> dunno where it is
[10:54] <infinity> mvo: Ugh.  I can see what all the fuss is about then.  3 mins is still way too long.
[10:54] <pitti> raphink: the window borders (title bar) are
[10:54] <infinity> mvo: I take back my comment then.  Progress output would be an okay stopgap until the real problem is addressed.
[10:54] <raphink> pitti: yeah I know the title bar is transparent
[10:55] <raphink> pitti: but I've seen a video that shown that you could make any window transparent
[10:55] <pitti> raphink: anyway, this is #ubuntu matter 
[10:55] <raphink> pitti: yeah you're right 
[10:55] <raphink> hehe
[10:55] <sladen> infinity: "real problem" is gconf2-tool just being stupidly slow?
[10:55] <infinity> mvo: Though I could also use your argument against you.  People using frontends will get a progress bar and won't think their machine is hung, so only the "hardcore" will notice the pause, and they should be smart enough to use other tools to see that the postinst is still running. :)
[10:55] <infinity> sladen: Indeed.
[10:56] <Chipzz> sladen: real problem being gconf being retarded in multiple ways ;)
[10:57] <infinity> pitti: If you didn't catch it on -changes, go forth and ssl-certify...
=== Pygi [n=mario@83-131-251-66.adsl.net.t-com.hr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:57] <infinity> pitti: (Unless you're waiting for binaries to test against... Wimp)
[10:57] <pitti> infinity: yay, thanks
[10:57] <Pygi> hi all, sorry about yesterday :-/ may somebody please say what was the conclusion about GAIM and the protocols?
[10:57] <pitti> infinity: yes, I never upload a p-common without running the 20 minute test suite in a real system
[10:57] <infinity> pitti: And that's why I love you.
[10:57] <mvo> infinity: point taken :) currently those very long postinst make synaptic open the terminal window with the dpkg stuff and show them to the user because synaptic dosn't detect any activity on the terminal and assumes something is wrong. that is easy enough to fix with a bigger timeout though
[10:57] <pitti> infinity: for being a wimp? :)
[10:58] <infinity> pitti: No, for actually testing stuff.  You may be the only one. ;)
[10:58] <pitti> infinity: I seriously hope I'm not 
[10:58] <seb128> mvo: what package does that take long on your box with gconf?
[10:58] <seb128> mvo: gnome-applets-data take ~1min here
[10:59] <infinity> pitti: Based on the number of build failure I get daily, I can only assume lots of people don't really test the sources they're uploading (though they may test the fixes they're including, then not test the final source upload)
[10:59] <infinity> pitti: After years as a frustrated buildd admin, that's precisely why I always do anal things like "source build -> clean chroot -> binary build -> test -> sign and upload original source build"
[11:00] <mvo> seb128: gnome-applets-data, but it takes less when it's in the file cache (i.e. when it is re-run)
[11:01] <seb128> what file cache?
[11:02] <pitti> fabbione: hmm, I just installed dovecot, and now: 'dovecotError: Can't use SSL certificate /etc/ssl/certs/dovecot.pem: No such file or directory'
[11:02] <pitti> fabbione: isn't it supposed to use the snakeoil cert?
[11:02] <fabbione> pitti: eh, yes? i did change that a long time ago...
[11:02] <fabbione> and tested..
[11:02] <pitti> fabbione: the commented path in dovecot.conf indeed points to the snakeoil one, but it seems that the internal default doens't
[11:03] <pitti> fabbione: if I uncomment the two lines, it works
[11:03] <fabbione> but ssl is not enabled by default...
[11:03] <fabbione> i will check again.. 
[11:03] <fabbione> thanks dude
[11:03] <pitti> (ssl-{cert,key}-file
[11:03] <pitti> fabbione: hm, I just enabled 'protocols = imaps' in the file
[11:03] <pitti> fabbione: that might have triggered it
[11:04] <fabbione> yes i am checking right now
[11:04] <infinity> Yeah, the compiled in default should definitely change, then. :)
[11:04] <infinity> (Does anyone else think a compiled-in default for an ssl cert path is dumb?)
[11:04] <pitti> fabbione: ah, I think you forgot to patch ./src/master/master-settings.c
[11:05] <pitti> fabbione: I'm working on the package anyway (security update), so I can fix that quickly
[11:05] <fabbione> pitti: ah ok.. thanks
[11:05] <fabbione> that would be lovely
[11:05] <pitti> fabbione: actually, I'd rather just change the default dovecot.conf to uncomment the settings
[11:05] <Pygi> infinity: well ,can't we use the ssl cert path out of some external file? 
[11:05] <pitti> that seems much cleaner to me
[11:05] <pitti> fabbione: what do you think?
=== Kagou [n=Kagou@84.5.173.217]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:05] <fabbione> pitti: i would prefer matching internal defaults
[11:06] <infinity> pitti: Change the compiled-in default too.  It will confuse people if they break their config a bit.
[11:06] <pitti> fabbione: alright, will do that then
[11:06] <fabbione> thanks
[11:07] <pitti> 'Office for Complication of Otherwise Simple Affairs' -> lol
[11:07] <Kagou> hi
[11:07] <mvo> infinity: btw, anything about the auto-dist-upgrade-test thing yet? 
[11:08] <Kagou> is there a procedure to submit patch to close a bug in package ?! Do i "just" send my patch to bug report in launchpad ?
[11:08] <infinity> mvo: Absolutely nothing, but if you but me the day after tomorrow (ie: after feature freeze), I can build the chroots and we can start testing it.
[11:08] <infinity> mvo: s/but/bug/
[11:08] <mvo> infinity: thanks, that would be great
[11:09] <infinity> mvo: Day after feature freeze is when I get to jump into "mass rebuilds and other testing stuff" mode, so this fits well.
[11:09] <Mithrandir> Kagou: click the "add attachment" link to the right.
=== SloMoSnail is now known as slomo
[11:10] <Kagou> Mithrandir, ok. 
[11:13] <Pygi> so, what was the conclusion due to GAIM and breaking TOS yesterday?
[11:15] <fabbione> pitti: sshhhhh! that was a surprise :)
[11:16] <slomo> hm, will we get a list of all packages in NEW in the future like there exists for debian?
[11:18] <Kamion> I believe that's in the plan, yes
[11:18] <slomo> nice :)
[11:19] <jdub> BUENOS DIAS, AMANTES DE LA LIBERTAD!
[11:20] <seb128> morning jdub :)
[11:21] <Pygi> mornin'
[11:22] <Seveas> buenos dias, seor jdub
[11:22] <pitti> jdub:  , !
[11:23] <Seveas> who should I bug about https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/32440 ? sounds worthwile to me
[11:23] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32440 in samba "3.0.21b is newer and fixes memory leaks" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[11:24] <Kamion> Seveas: infinity
[11:24] <Kamion> note that he's already subscribed to the bug
[11:24] <Seveas> ah, right
[11:25] <Seveas> missed that 
[11:25] <Kagou> please tell me what to do after : 
[11:25] <Kagou> apt-get source package
[11:25] <Kagou> cd package
[11:25] <Kagou> -> do my modifications
[11:25] <Kagou> --> how create patch to send to bug report ?
[11:25] <pitti> Kagou: dch -i
[11:25] <pitti> Kamion: type some comments
[11:25] <Seveas> Kagou, dch -i ; debuild -s ; debdiff
[11:25] <pitti> erm, Kagou ^ (sorry Kamion)
[11:25] <Seveas> debuild -S that is
[11:26] <infinity> Seveas: I'm sure we'll get the new version, don't fret.
[11:26] <Kagou> thanks pitti & Seveas 
=== martink [n=martin@p54B3ADA8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:26] <Seveas> infinity, I'm just triaging, didn't notice you were already subscribed. Thanks for the info, I'll add it to the bug
[11:26] <pitti> Kamion: debdiff on the old and new .dsc then
=== koke [n=koke@ubuntu/member/koke]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:28] <Seveas> pitti, fix your <tab> ;)
[11:29] <pitti> Seveas: I did actually, just autofingers
[11:31] <infinity> Seveas: Samba's microreleases (a, b, c, etc) are bugfix only, so the UVF exception should be easy to get.
=== mpt [n=mpt@219-89-129-211.jetstart.xtra.co.nz]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Lorenzod [n=lorenzod@63.218.103.162]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:51] <slomo> mdz: the gst 0.10 swfdec plugin is now in gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad if you still need it :) but should move to good soon anyway
=== janimo [n=jani@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:52] <seb128> slomo: don't ship it with bad so please
[11:52] <seb128> slomo: or we will have to Conflicts/Replace over Debian when it moves
[11:53] <Kamion> bit late
[11:54] <slomo> seb128: we'll have these replaces anyway as hopefully everything from bad moves to good/ugly... but sure, i can remove swfdec from bad as it should be in good very soon
[11:54] <seb128> slomo: if you already ship it no point to drop it, it's done
[11:54] <Kamion> lp_archive@drescher:/tmp/cjwatson$ dpkg -c ~/ubuntu/pool/universe/g/gst-plugins-bad0.10/gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.1-0ubuntu1_i386.deb | grep swfdec
[11:54] <Kamion> -rw-r--r-- root/root     20336 2006-02-22 01:37:00 ./usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstswfdec.so
[11:54] <seb128> I would appreciate if you coordinate with me next time for such case though :)
[11:55] <seb128> no big deal anyway
[11:55] <slomo> seb128: i thought that would be fine with you as we obviously have the replaces-problem with everything in bad sooner or later
=== marilize [n=marilize@196.36.161.235]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:56] <seb128> slomo: right
[11:57] <slomo> seb128: so maybe a general "Replaces: gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad" in good and ugly will solve it forever...
=== carlos_ [n=carlos@84.76.255.40]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:59] <seb128> slomo: it would be wrong though
=== ompaul_ [n=ompaul@213-202-162-127.bas503.dsl.esat.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[12:00] <slomo> seb128: why? good/ugly should be always allowed to replace stuff from bad
=== giftnudel [n=mb@p54A92B85.dip0.t-ipconnect.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[12:03] <seb128> slomo: dunno, that feels wrong, that should be used when it actually replaces something, no because one of the next versions might move something again
=== martink [n=martin@p54B3ADA8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[12:11] <dholbach> janimo: xubuntu-artwork - YAY! :)
=== atie [n=atie@12.163.162.2]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[12:15] <mvo> janimo: the grub splash stuff went away again (just FYI)
[12:15] <atie> hi
[12:16] <janimo> dholbach, which part of it you like ? 
=== mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[12:16] <janimo> mvo, I noticed, good thing I did not rush to make a xubuntu splash :)
[12:17] <dholbach> janimo: i just saw the gdm theme
[12:17] <janimo> dholbach, that's nice indeed
[12:17] <dholbach> janimo: what about the rest of the desktop, dependencies still broken?
[12:17] <janimo> it's just not (yet) consistent with wallpapers, default theme, usplash
[12:17] <janimo> dholbach, no it should install fine now
[12:17] <mvo> janimo: yeah, sorry for it, but it made too many problems
[12:17] <janimo> if not it's a bug
[12:18] <dholbach> janimo: so i can dist-upgrade and drop all the stuff it wants to remove?
[12:18] <janimo> dholbach, yes :)
[12:18] <janimo> ping me if anything is wrong
[12:18] <dholbach> i query you
=== raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== marilize [n=marilize@196.36.161.235]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ploum [n=ploum@user-85-201-2-96.tvcablenet.be]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[12:30] <sladen> lamont: HP suck.  They buy other Compaq.  Re-brand the dmi-signatures to include "HP", but don't actually change the way the laptops work...
[12:31] <janimo> mvo, on the subject of using gconf for update-manager, did I understand corrcetly that you would be ok with another config layer as long as it works?
[12:31] <janimo> I am thinking of upgrading issues it might cause
[12:31] <janimo> but would be nice to use python's own INI format, to avoid all the gnome-python dependency
[12:38] <mvo> janimo: yes
[12:39] <janimo> mvo, yes for upgraduing issues or for INI format? :)
[12:39] <mvo> janimo: for both :) 
[12:39] <janimo> :)
[12:40] <mvo> janimo: upgrading shouldn't be that bad, we can extract the stuff with gconftool
[12:40] <janimo> if you think ini would be fine and you're overloaded I may take a look this week
[12:40] <mvo> janimo: that would be nice, thanks. try to keep in sync with glatzor, he wants to do some work on the software-properties dialog
[12:41] <janimo> mvo, ok is your bzr archive the place to start and follow enough?
[12:41] <janimo> anyway the changes should be unintsrusive
[12:41] <mvo> janimo: yes, my bzr repo is fine
[12:42] <pitti> doko: xmlsec1 approved
[12:51] <sivang> hi all
[12:52] <doko> pitti: thanks
=== sivang hugs pitti 
[12:54] <pitti> hey sivang 
[12:56] <Kamion> Mez: did you really mean to say "Architecture: i386" in the libflaim control file?
=== lemsto [n=salim@ANantes-154-1-81-232.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235]  has left #ubuntu-devel [] 
[01:01] <Kamion> Mez: simias seems to install files in /usr/web/ and /usr/etc/; please fix that to conform to our standard filesystem hierarchy
[01:02] <Kamion> actually, I'll send mail
[01:02] <Kinnison> I need a "Foo happened, did you want it to, yes/no []  tickybox-do-not-tell-me-again" dialog (ideally in glade) -- anyone know where I can find one to cadge?
=== heno [n=henrik@henrik.gotadsl.co.uk]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[01:05] <sivang> pitti: what do I need in order to promote dar into main other then a main inclusion report? It looks pretty fine in debian bts, has a responsive and a nice reelase cycle upstream...
[01:05] <pitti> sivang: mainly that, a good main inclusion report with those references, upstream/debian bug research, etc.
[01:06] <sivang> pitti: okay. 
[01:06] <pitti> sivang: no vulns in the past :)
[01:07] <sivang> pitti: ah, okay, I would have to search the CVE db. is there any other place to search besides the CVE?
[01:07] <pitti> I'll do that, don't worry
[01:07] <pitti> sivang: I meant that I just checked
[01:08] <sivang> pitti: ah - I know it's very cool piece of software :)
[01:08] <pitti> yes, indeed
=== marilize_ [n=marilize@196.36.161.235]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== marilize [n=marilize@196.36.161.235]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[01:12] <simira> hi marilize :)
[01:13] <marilize> hi simira, how are you?
[01:13] <simira> marilize: good. Trying to figure out some decent preseeding for Ubuntu installations in my company
[01:13] <simira> marilize: and you? How is your work going?
[01:14] <pitti> Riddell: how does keep manage to backup system files (/etc and the like)? will it run as root, or is it only meant for user files?
[01:14] <marilize> simira; great thanks, just having allot of wireless problems today :) still enjoying the new job?
[01:15] <simira> marilize: so far, so good :)
[01:15] <Riddell> pitti: it's only ment for user files
[01:15] <Riddell> although you can run it as root if you want to
[01:15] <pitti> Riddell: ok, that's good; so no potential root escalation by putting bad files into your ~ :)
[01:16] <pitti> Riddell: thanks
=== Yagisan [n=jamie@60-240-7-100-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== pitti waves to Yagisan 
[01:16] <simira> marilize: when can I order Dapper cd's?
=== Yagisan waves back to pitti
[01:16] <Riddell> simira: in about March
[01:16] <simira> Kamion: ping
[01:17] <pitti> Riddell: approved then, thanks
[01:18] <Riddell> pitti: great
[01:18] <marilize> simira: not yet, 
[01:18] <simira> who ate launchpad!
[01:18] <marilize> Will let you know as soon as we have the dates sorted :)
[01:19] <Riddell> Kamion: keep for moving to main, konserve for universe
[01:19] <simira> marilize: got a mail last week, a guy who wanted 2000 cd's, within 3 work days...
[01:20] <marilize> simira: dapper? 
=== mvo [n=egon@p54A652EB.dip.t-dialin.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[01:21] <simira> marilize: Breezy. But still a bit too short notice
[01:21] <mjg59> sladen: No, the behaviour of the 8240 should be identical to all the other business machines
[01:22] <mjg59> (Yes, HP laptops since the merger have been Compaqs)
[01:22] <marilize> well, depends where he is., and what he want it for.....he should mail me if his still interested...info@shipit.ubuntu.com
[01:23] <simira> marilize: well, the 3 days are past now, so ut's over due anyway. And he's in Norway, couple of miles outside Oslo. I told him to get back to me a bit earlier next year :)
=== jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[01:26] <Kamion> simira: hi
[01:26] <marilize> simira:  you can just tell people to contact me directly at the shipit address,  in Europe 3 days should have been ok if we send it high priority :)
[01:26] <mjg59> sladen: The issue here is that KDE doesn't have the keybindings setup. That's all.
[01:26] <Kamion> Riddell: will promote keep when the publisher's finished; can't demote konserve until after you've updated kubuntu-meta
[01:27] <simira> marilize: I will remember that
[01:28] <Kamion> Riddell: (keep promoted)
[01:28] <Kinnison> If you press the close button on a yes/no dialog is that yes or no?
[01:28] <marilize> simira:  :)
[01:28] <simira> Kamion: we're having some trouble setting locales on an automatically installation of Breezy, I am talking to Tollef now.
[01:30] <simira> Kamion: if we don't get it to work, I will put a bug on it, when launchpad is back
=== Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mvo [n=egon@p54A652EB.dip.t-dialin.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[01:43] <mvo> ping freeflying
[01:49] <mvo> freeflying: I would like to talk about scim. after installing all the required stuff and logging in with a chinese locale I don't get a scim panel. ctrl-space does nothing etc. I only get it when I start scim manually. any idea about this?
[01:50] <Kamion> pitti: you still haven't ever edited the skim inclusion report page; is it approved? shall I just promote it now?
[01:51] <pitti> Kamion: yes, please
=== pitti edits page
[01:52] <Kamion> chmj: kdescreensaver-aasaver produces an empty binary package; please fix; also please set a Section in debian/control (kde would be suitable)
[01:52] <Kamion> chmj: (well, empty apart from files under /usr/share/doc/)
[01:52] <chmj> O.o 
[01:52] <chmj> Kamion: ok, will ahve a look 
[01:52] <Kamion> thanks
[01:54] <freeflying> mvo: pong
[01:56] <mvo> freeflying: I would like to ask about how scim is activated for a user after the language-support-zh pack was installed. I had to start scim manually after that
[01:57] <freeflying> mvo: you shall set the IM variable in system or you own direstion
=== glatzor [n=sebi@ppp-82-135-75-114.mnet-online.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:09] <glatzor> hi mvo
[02:10] <mvo> hey glatzor! thanks for your mail
[02:11] <sladen> mjg59: no.  It's a Compaq...  Which is the reason that you're baffled that it doesn't work and that the vendor string is 'HP Compaq'
[02:12] <mjg59> We're talking about the 8240?
[02:12] <sladen> mjg59: yes
[02:12] <mjg59> It's an HP
[02:12] <mjg59> In the same way that all machines in that range are
[02:12] <mjg59> HP's business laptop team came from Compaq
[02:13] <mjg59> The scancodes are identical. KDE just does nothing with them.
[02:13] <sladen> mjg59: the only keycode they have in common is for 'Presentation'.  All the other keys match Compaq Presario keycodes  . o O {...}
[02:13] <mjg59> sladen: This doesn't match the previous reports I have of the 8240
[02:13] <mjg59> (more than one)
[02:13] <glatzor> mvo: i've lost the url of the spec. could you please point me to the wiki page?
[02:14] <glatzor> i don't find it anymore using the search, too
[02:14] <mjg59> It also doesn't match the HP BIOS documentation I have
=== seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:15] <mjg59> sladen: Hang on a moment. e05f is /identical/ to the HPs for sleep.
[02:16] <mjg59> We don't bother mapping it because that scancode already goes to KEY_SLEEP
[02:18] <mvo> glatzor: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RepositoryDialogRedesign
[02:18] <tseng> mark makes his best ELER apperance yet
[02:18] <tseng> http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/cancomical-lynchpad
[02:18] <sladen> mjg59: is that a 1-in-128 fluke?  Or because acpi_fakekey is sending it from an ACPI event?
[02:18] <mjg59> sladen: No, it's because that's the mapping Microsoft use
[02:19] <mjg59> The HPs send identical sleep and volume scancodes to MS keyboards, which is also the mapping the kernel uses
[02:19] <sladen> sanity starts to prevail
[02:20] <Treenaks> mjg59: I've seen keyboards that claim to have 'MS XP Standard hotkeys: No driver required'
[02:20] <mjg59> Yeah
[02:21] <glatzor> mvo: have you heard anything new about gtkmozembed?
[02:23] <mvo> glatzor: unfortunately not, I'm subscripted to the upstream bugreport and Diziet did  a lot of debugging on it, but currently no solution
[02:25] <Yagisan> Treenaks: last time I checked, there was no such thing as a "MS XP Standard hotkey"
[02:26] <Treenaks> Yagisan: Apparently, a there is a small subset.
[02:26] <sladen> I would guess it's whatever the MS Pro desk-replacement sends
[02:27] <Kinnison> mjg59: I've got the battery info notify going
[02:27] <glatzor> mvo: should i implement the "add sources.list" thing?
[02:27] <mjg59> Kinnison: Rock
[02:27] <Kinnison> mjg59: Also I'm about 70% of the way to the 'are you sure about suspend' dialog
=== ohoel [n=eruin@ti400720a081-9347.bb.online.no]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Kinnison is really struggling with the async nature of gtk though
[02:28] <sladen> Kinnison: for g-p-p ?
[02:28] <Kinnison> sladen: yes
[02:28] <ohoel> can anyone inform me about who maintains laptop_mode?
[02:29] <mjg59> Nobody
[02:29] <mjg59> We've moved to laptop_mode_tools
[02:29] <ohoel> well, that then ;)
=== enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Keybuk [n=scott@213-78-32-60.ppp.onetel.net.uk]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:30] <mjg59> Probably me - what's up?
=== LinuxJones [n=willy@hlfxns01bbh-142177210015.ns.aliant.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mvo goes to get some food
[02:33] <viviersf> Mithrandir, ping
[02:33] <Mithrandir> viviersf: yes?
=== zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:34] <zul> heylo
=== ohoel [n=eruin@ti400720a081-9347.bb.online.no]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:35] <viviersf> if i put extra scripts into : /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/casper-bottom/
[02:35] <viviersf> and i just rebuild initramfs will it just go into it ?
[02:36] <ohoel> mjg59: sorry, had a bit of an X-reset accident ;) - laptop_mode status reports my lid status as closed while the laptop is "open"... isn't that incorrect?
[02:36] <mjg59> ohoel: Uhm. laptop_mode? If so, that's obsolete.
[02:36] <ohoel> I set gnome-power-manager to suspend on lid close, which led to an immediate suspend
[02:36] <Kamion> mjg59: is xorg-air targeted to be merged into xorg-server at some point post-dapper?
[02:37] <mjg59> Kamion: That's the long-term plan, but it's unclear how long it'll take
[02:37] <viviersf> hey Mithrandir ?
[02:37] <ohoel> mjg59: laptop_mode is provided by laptop-mode-tools isn't it?
[02:38] <mjg59> Oh, so it is.
[02:38] <ohoel> I suppose I should file a bug for this, but want to include anything you deem relevant at first go
[02:38] <mjg59> Sorry, I was thinking of laptop-mode.
[02:38] <mjg59> (argh)
[02:39] <mjg59> ohoel: What does /proc/acpi/button/lid/*/state say?
[02:40] <giftnudel> and he disappeared into nirvana ...
[02:40] <Kamion> anagramarama wins the prize for the hardest package in today's NEW queue to type
=== ohoel [n=eruin@ti400720a081-9347.bb.online.no]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:40] <ohoel> no idea why I keep pressing ctrl-alt-bckspace
[02:40] <mjg59> ohoel: What does /proc/acpi/button/lid/*/state say?
[02:41] <ogra> Kamion, why? its only 4 letters ...
[02:41] <ohoel> mjg59: closed
[02:41] <ogra> ohoel, no 5 actually
[02:41] <ogra> grmpf ...
[02:41] <ogra> *oh
[02:41] <ohoel> (LID0)
[02:42] <mjg59> ohoel: That would be the problem, then
[02:43] <bronson> What happened to the multimedia systems selector in Dapper?
[02:43] <ohoel> bronson: menus-revisiteds victim, I suppose
[02:44] <ogra> bronson, alt-f2 gstreamer-properties
[02:44] <ohoel> mjg59: anything I can supply to help find the root cause?
[02:44] <jdub> hrm, in add printer, there are no vendors/drivers listed
[02:44] <bronson> ogra, thanks.
[02:44] <mjg59> ohoel: Sounds like a kernel bug of some sort, but it could just be your hardware being rubbish
[02:44] <bronson> Guess I'll file a bug on Totem so its error message can be rewritten.
[02:46] <ohoel> mjg59: it's pretty much the standard intel centrino-style stuff... does breezy have laptopmode?
[02:46] <tseng> it does, but its disabled per default
[02:46] <ohoel> could see if it's a regression of sorts maybe
=== pitti_ [n=pitti@195.227.105.180]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== apokryphos [i=[U2FsdGV@server2.polaristar.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:50] <jdub> oh wait
[02:50] <jdub> it is
[02:50] <Kamion> desrt: around?
[02:50] <jdub> but after aaaaaaages of 100% CPU mess
[02:51] <Kamion> desrt: where was the timezone widget stuff you were pointing me at? ISTR there was some GNOME component for it that was better than "cut-and-paste it from Evolution"
[02:51] <Kamion> or if anyone else happens to know (hi, Mr. GNOME Release Manager!)
[02:53] <janimo> Kamion, libegg?
[02:54] <jdub> Kamion: it's in evolution
[02:54] <janimo> I know that has a lot of cut-n-paste stuff
[02:54] <Kamion> janimo: doesn't appear to be packaged?
=== doko [n=doko@dslb-084-059-098-042.pools.arcor-ip.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:54] <jdub> Kamion: and gnome-system-tools has copied it out nicely
[02:54] <jdub> libegg is a cut-n-paste cvs module
[02:55] <jdub> it's not in there
[02:55] <janimo> Kamion, I thought you meant is there a gnome lib which is used for cut-n-paste not inclusion, but I think that's not what you meant
[02:55] <Kamion> right, no, I meant specifically whether there was one currently containing the timezone widget
[02:56] <janimo> don;t know about that sorry
[02:56] <Kamion> jdub: ah, interesting, I might start with gnome-system-tools then
[02:56] <Kamion> to see how to factor it out
[02:56] <jdub> mjg59: mmm, xorg-air
[02:57] <jdub> mjg59: too scary to patch xorg proper atm?
[02:57] <jdub> mjg59: (didn't we have most of the patches required already?)
[02:57] <Kamion> poo, no python bindings there either
=== stratus [n=stratus@cronopio.rits.org.br]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:57] <mjg59> jdub: It requires xorg HEAD, which is potentially ABI incompatible with existing drivers
[02:58] <jdub> ahr
[02:58] <Treenaks> oo. more X love
[02:58] <mjg59> Install it, point /etc/X11/X at /usr/bin/Xorg-air, switch on composite in xorg.conf, mravel
[02:58] <mjg59> I'll upload libcm later on
[02:58] <azeem> mjg59: is this air stuff only coincidently named similar to acclerated_indirect-0-0-1, or is this the same?
[02:58] <seb128> Kamion: I uploaded " evince (0.4.0-0ubuntu4.1)" to breezy-updates some time ago, do you know if it's waiting on approval somewhere?
=== Kamion tries to work out which of evolution and gnome-system-tools has a newer e-map
[02:58] <mjg59> azeem: It is precisely that
[02:58] <Treenaks> mjg59: how about new metacity?
[02:59] <mjg59> Treenaks: Yeah, I'll look at that
[02:59] <Treenaks> cool
[02:59] <Kamion> seb128: yes, it's in the breezy unapproved queue, I'll grab mdz after feature freeze and sit down and go through that stuff
[02:59] <azeem> mjg59: ta
=== kent [n=kent@kr-lun-89-144-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:59] <seb128> Kamion: ok, thank you. That's a 1 line crasher fix, should be easy to approve ... :)
[02:59] <Kamion> right, but we'll do it all at once
[02:59] <seb128> works for me
[02:59] <seb128> thank you
[02:59] <Kamion> I have a bit too much to do right now I'm afraid
[02:59] <seb128> that's fine
[03:00] <jdub> Kamion is over-caffeineated :)
[03:00] <mjg59> azeem: Basically, it just needs mesa with the texture binding protocol additions and an updated x11proto-gl
=== zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:00] <seb128> an user was just pinging on the bug where I mentionned the upload asking if the package is coming soon
[03:00] <mjg59> azeem: Other than that, I just built it using the existing packaging for Xorg (except disabling xnest, xvfb and so on)
[03:00] <azeem> cool
[03:00] <Kamion> I'm over-mapificated
[03:01] <mjg59> Much easier than Xgl
=== Kamion decides that gnome-system-tools is a better starting point; yay for cut-and-paste code that's the grandchild of the original :-/
=== decko [n=decko@CAcert-br/decko]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:01] <sivang> Kamion: what are you using the g-s-t code for? espresso?
[03:02] <Kamion> sivang: yeah
[03:02] <Kamion> need a country/timezone selector
[03:02] <jdub> mjg59: you are a trooper :)
[03:02] <mjg59> jdub: You may buy me beer in Brussels
=== freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.14]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:02] <jdub> mjg59: going to roy's on friday?
[03:02] <mjg59> jdub: Yeah, but might be quite late
[03:02] <azeem> it's going to be sooo full in there 
[03:02] <mjg59> (Like, 11 or so)
[03:03] <Treenaks> Hm.. I'm only going to be there on Saturday
[03:03] <jdub> mjg59: ok
[03:03] <sivang> mjg59: already planning to package aigl ? :)
[03:03] <mjg59> sivang: Already done
[03:03] <mjg59> Dude
[03:03] <mjg59> Get with the times!
[03:03] <mjg59> It's just gone through NEW
[03:03] <jdub> if you're not on dapper-changes
[03:03] <jdub> YOU'RE NOT ON DAPPER
[03:04] <Treenaks> oh
[03:04] <sivang> heh, sorry guys, it's been hard tracking latest stuff while I'm stuck head over hills in HomeUserBackup..you're my only source of info currently :)
=== mxpxpod [n=BryanFor@wuw-ojr3gmca.dybb.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:04] <zakame> mjg59: w00t
=== mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== sivang raises up from the chair to only go to the lavartory and get an occassional slice of pizza
[03:05] <sivang> mjg59: which technology sis better in your opinion?
[03:06] <Kinnison> mjg59: 45-suspend-warning-dialog, 46-sleep-button-combo and 90-suspend-warning-and-sleep-button-impl are pretty much finished :-)
[03:06] <mjg59> sivang: Xgl allows cooler effects. Xair works better.
[03:06] <mjg59> Kinnison: w00t
[03:06] <ogra> Kinnison, WOW
[03:06] <Riddell> Kamion: germinator.plantSeed() now takes an extra argument, breaking the *buntu-meta update scripts
[03:07] <infinity> Kamion: UVF exception for the new Samba is a no-brainer, I assume?  I may as well fire that one off before bed, since it's minimal effort.
[03:07] <Kinnison> mjg59: in fact, I think that finishes off all the g-p-m notes from last night, leaving g-ss and g-s-d ones
[03:07] <infinity> Kamion: 3.0.21a -> 3.0.21b, bugfixes only.
=== hunger [n=tobias@p54A6006F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:07] <mjg59> Kinnison: Rock
=== Kinnison builds a source package to stuff on rookery
[03:08] <mjg59> jdub: The g-p-m UI has got a lot of love
[03:09] <sivang> mjg59: then I'm in for the cooler effects :)
[03:09] <mjg59> OH ARGH I HATE YOU ALL
[03:09] <mjg59> (libcm doesn't have a copyright notice)
[03:10] <infinity> mjg59: Surely that message was meant for #freedesktop, then. :)
[03:10] <Kinnison> mjg59: Here, have some UI love...
[03:10] <Kinnison> mjg59: http://people.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/are-you-sure.png
[03:10] <mjg59> Kinnison: Looks good
[03:11] <mjg59> Kinnison: You probably want to check the HIG over whether the checkbox is in the right place
[03:11] <Kinnison> mjg59: I think I'm gonna remove the "You have chosen to..." because it's a bit odd
[03:11] <mjg59> I have a feeling it should be aligned with the text, but I'm not sure
[03:11] <Kinnison> mjg59: the checkbox alignment is my main concern, the rest is spaced according to a similar dialog I found which lacked a checkbox
[03:11] <infinity> Kinnison: Do you have a harsher "DENIED" message for people who try to enable suspend where it just plain can't work (not enough swap, etc)?
[03:11] <Keybuk> shouldn't those buttons be "Enable Suspend" and "Don't Enable Suspend" ? :)
=== sbalneav [n=sbalneav@mail.legalaid.mb.ca]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:12] <infinity> The buttons should be "EEK!" and "Bring it!"
[03:12] <infinity> But that may not agree with the HIG.
[03:12] <Keybuk> PUSH THE BUTTON!
[03:13] <Kinnison> Keybuk: I am not a HIG expect
[03:13] <Kinnison> Keybuk: If you want me to change the buttons I'll change them
[03:13] <Keybuk> Kinnison: me neither
=== Kinnison thought it might be safer to ask a yes/no question and present yes/no buttons :-)
=== Kinnison removes the "You have chosen to..." text because it's pointless
[03:13] <Keybuk> I liked the VIG better
[03:13] <Keybuk> (Vorlon Interface Guidelines)
[03:13] <pitti> Kinnison: the only thing I know about HIG is that yes/no buttons are bad
[03:13] <Kinnison> infinity: No, if they choose to turn it on, it's their own fault :-)
[03:13] <Keybuk> all dialogs, no matter how complex, only had two buttons
[03:14] <Treenaks> Kinnison: 'Enable suspend' 'Do not enable suspend' ?
[03:14] <Keybuk> "Yes" and "It is too late for the pebbles to vote"
[03:14] <Kinnison> pitti: then why are there stock yes/no buttons?
[03:14] <Treenaks> Kinnison: the keyword for Gnome/HIG buttons is 'verbs'
[03:14] <Keybuk> Kinnison: backwards compatibility
[03:14] <infinity> Kinnison: Oh wait, that's suspend, not hibernate...
[03:14] <pitti> Kinnison: good point :) But essentially you should still know what you do if you only see the buttons without any text
[03:14] <infinity> Kinnison: I was thinking hibernate (which should not allow you to do it if it can't be done.. Windows won't let you hibernate if you don't have enough disk space, for instance)
[03:15] <Kinnison> infinity: need to think about that afterwards
[03:15] <Keybuk> Kinnison: also the dialog should NOT have a title or icon
[03:15] <Kamion> Riddell: oh well, better update *-meta, sorry
[03:15] <Keybuk> in fact, no window decorations of any kind
[03:15] <Kamion> Riddell: I'll do it
[03:16] <Kamion> Riddell: although, hm, I guess I can make it backward-compatible
[03:16] <Kamion> infinity: link to upstream changelog please?
[03:16] <pitti> infinity: could you please check out something for me? according to https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/170296, amarok was built on ross on the 20th, but it's not on http://ross.buildd/~buildd/translations/20060220 (or any later directory)
[03:17] <pitti> infinity: so, I'm a bit concerned about losing random tarballs (we didn't get any amarok tarball since the start of february, e. g.)
[03:17] <pitti> infinity: the build log says that the tarball was generated
[03:17] <infinity> Kamion: http://us4.samba.org/samba/history/samba-3.0.21b.html
[03:18] <jdub> mjg59: what do you think about making ctrl-alt-bksp launch the logout dialogue?
[03:18] <Riddell> Kamion: I'm just not sure what to put in as the new seedrelease attribute
[03:18] <infinity> Kamion: There's one pretty vile memory leak in winbind that will bring a machine to its knees within a few days of uptime.  The rest of the bugs are less critical, but certainly look buggy enough to me.
[03:19] <mjg59> jdub: Difficult
[03:19] <Kamion> infinity: ok, I can't say I follow all of that; if you're comfortable with it, do it but keep a close eye on bugs
[03:19] <infinity> Kamion: Always.
[03:19] <jdub> mjg59: they're far apart, but there are some contexts where the fingers are close by, and wow does it fuck people off
=== huahua [n=hua@221.172.48.119]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:20] <mjg59> jdub: It's caught by the X server
[03:20] <jdub> mjg59: hrm, suck
[03:20] <mjg59> We could just disable it by default
[03:20] <jdub> mmm, true
[03:20] <j^> does pressing the power button show the shutdown dialog?
[03:20] <Treenaks> but that would break stuff for lots of people
[03:20] <Mez> Kamion: ping
[03:20] <Kamion> Mez: hi
[03:21] <mjg59> j^: It's configurable in gnome-power-manager
[03:21] <Mez> Kamion: regarding Simias
[03:21] <Treenaks> When X gets stuck and won't terminate normally, I ctrl+ alt+ bs it
[03:21] <infinity> pitti: Hrm, I don't see sbuild's "publishing translations" message in that build log...
[03:21] <Mez> Kamion: The programs are written so that they install to $PREFIX
[03:22] <Kamion> Mez: your .install file says usr/etc/*
[03:22] <Mez> and all the stuff in $PREFIX/bin has to have access to $PREFIX/etc 
[03:22] <Kamion> Mez: as I understand it, that will cause dh_install to install files to usr/etc
[03:22] <Kamion> which is bad
[03:22] <Kamion> Mez: every other package in the world copes
[03:22] <Mez> Kamion: this package is dumb
[03:22] <Kamion> the traditional solution is to set sysconfdir=/etc or similar
[03:22] <Kamion> Mez: I'm sorry, but I'm not letting a package past NEW that ships files in /usr/etc/
=== infinity blinks.
[03:23] <Kamion> Mez: I realise it may take a bit of work, but you'll have to fix it
[03:23] <infinity>  /usr/etc?  Nice.
[03:23] <Kamion> or get help from upstream if need be
[03:23] <Kamion> likewise /usr/web/
[03:23] <Mez> Kamion: I can understand that ... 
[03:23] <Mez> I've been bitching at upstream for ages....
[03:23] <infinity> Mez: Patch the source to use sane paths, if you can't do it with ./configure options.
[03:23] <Mez> infinity - I don't know the source well enough
[03:23] <infinity> Mez: We follow Debian policy, which in turn follows the FHS for filesystem layout.
[03:23] <infinity> Mez: Grep for the offending bits. :)
[03:24] <j^> mjg59 is that with a new verison of g-p-m? with the one i currently have i can not find settings for the power button
[03:25] <Mez> infinity: I've tried - it shows one reference to etc
[03:25] <mjg59> j^: Interesting. Possibly it defaults to that, then.
[03:26] <Kinnison> Keybuk: screenshot updated. better?
[03:26] <j^> hm, with my x30 nothing happens than pressing the power button for a shot time
[03:26] <jdub> pitti: http://blog.fubar.dk/?p=64
[03:26] <Keybuk> Kinnison: yeah, seems better
[03:26] <infinity> Mez: Well, if you're horribly stuck on this, you can ask me for some help giving it a quick once-over, but not for a couple of days.
[03:27] <Treenaks> It works on my Acer 1684
[03:27] <Treenaks> I get the lots-of-buttons logout dialog
[03:27] <infinity> pitti: Did it produce translations on any other arch?
[03:27] <pitti> jdub: heh, we have this since breezy :)
[03:27] <pitti> infinity: no
[03:27] <jdub> pitti: ;-)
[03:27] <infinity> pitti: I'm testing locally here.  I have a feeling it's not producing any at all.
[03:28] <pitti> infinity: hm, the build log says it does
[03:28] <Diziet> FFS!  Why oh why oh why does firefox with ./configure --debug install a SIGSEGV handler ??!
[03:28] <infinity> pkgstriptranslations: preparing translation tarball amarok_2:1.3.8-0ubuntu5_powerpc_translations.tar.gz...done (285 files)
[03:29] <infinity> Hrm.  That does look like it did one, doesn't it?
=== freeflying-ibook [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.14]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:29] <pitti> right
[03:29] <jdub> Diziet: report-back functionality - makes sense :)
[03:29] <Kinnison> mjg59: http://people.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/gpm-shiny
[03:29] <Kinnison> mjg59: fancy having a play and see what you think?
[03:29] <infinity> pitti: On the other hand, the sbuild hook to copy the tarball is obviously working in other cases, since I have directories filled with recent translations tarballs...
[03:29] <Kinnison> mjg59: http://people.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/gpm-shiny/gnome-power-manager_2.13.91-0ubuntu2_source.changes
[03:30] <Kinnison> mjg59: for the changes
[03:30] <infinity> pitti: So, something very goofy is happening to amarok specifically.
[03:30] <pitti> infinity: right, that's what I was wondering about
[03:30] <infinity> pitti: Anyhow, testing locally to see what it produces.
[03:30] <pitti> infinity: maybe the epoch in the version number doesn't match some wildcard, or so?
=== enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:30] <Diziet> jdub: If they wanted to do that they should do it in the wrapper script.
[03:30] <infinity> pitti: Oh, does that epoch end up in the filename?
[03:31] <j^> ah pressing the power button for longer it show the old new logout dialog. would be good if that would be the same as the one one gets than selecting System->Shut Down...
[03:31] <pitti> infinity: well, it's the package version
[03:31] <infinity> pitti: It shouldn't, ideally, since epochs don't go in source/binary filenames.
[03:31] <pitti> infinity: I see
=== mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:31] <infinity> pitti: Whether or not that's pissing off sbuild, I'll have to see.  Let me look at the code.
[03:31] <giftnudel> j^, well, there is no hibernate button in that dialog
[03:31] <mjg59> Kinnison: Oh, have you got the rate limiting?
[03:32] <Kinnison> mjg59: rate limiting?
=== AlinuxOS [n=Ubuntu@d83-176-124-114.cust.tele2.it]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:32] <mjg59> Kinnison: Multiple sleep event stuff
[03:32] <Kinnison> mjg59: you may mean 80-suppress-policy-timout
[03:32] <mjg59> Kinnison: Ah, ok
=== mako_ [n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Kinnison has been coding on this since he got up :-)
[03:33] <infinity> pitti: Or, other way around.  Maybe you don't do the epoch, and I do?
[03:33] <pitti> infinity: no, I do
[03:34] <pitti> see build log: ' preparing translation tarball amarok_2:1.3.8-0ubuntu5_powerpc_translations.tar.gz'
[03:34] <mjg59> Failed to fetch http://uk.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/m/mesa/libglu1-mesa-dev_6.4.1-0ubuntu6_i386.deb  Cannot initiate the connection to 2080:80 (0.0.8.32). - connect (22 Invalid argument)
[03:34] <mjg59> Something has gone very wrong here
[03:35] <janimo> pitti, since there's no firewall spec implemented for dapper, what  do you think shipping one of the frontends for iptables?
[03:35] <Kamion> can anyone give me a simple example (i.e. not pygtk) of a GNOME component that has a C widget plus Python bindings for it?
[03:35] <janimo> there are a lot of them I know
[03:35] <janimo> I have just tested firestarter and was pleasntly surpised
[03:35] <Kinnison> pitti: epochs plus tar files == danger will robinson
[03:36] <Kinnison> pitti: in particular, tar treats the colon as a remote-machine thingy
[03:36] <pitti> Kinnison: right, with -f
[03:36] <pitti> infinity: so, it's probably best to change pkgstriptranslations to not include the epoch
=== j^ [n=j@e178060177.adsl.alicedsl.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:36] <janimo> Kamion, I assume no python-gnome2 either ?
[03:36] <infinity> pitti: Yes, indeed.  But see /msg
[03:37] <Kamion> janimo: that's likely to be a bit heavyweight as well - I only have one widget to wrap
[03:37] <Kamion> albeit the Evolution map widget, so not quite a trivial one
[03:38] <Seveas> Kamion, pygtkmozembed? or is that too pygtk already?
[03:38] <Kinnison> mjg59: if it doesn't eat your laptop, I'll send that g-p-m to the archive
[03:38] <mjg59> Suddenly all my apt http methods are getting 2080 as a hostname/address
[03:38] <mjg59> And ftp ones work fine
[03:38] <j^> whats the ~ autostart now? ~/.config/autostart does not work
[03:39] <torkel> j^: .local/share/autostart/
=== ohoel [n=eruin@ti400720a081-9347.bb.online.no]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:41] <sivang> does anybody know how to make the num pad's arrows and PgUp work again? for some reason it has gone bad and now controls my mouse :)
[03:42] <Mithrandir> sivang: press shift-numlock
[03:42] <Treenaks> oh wow
[03:42] <janimo> Kamion, anastacia output still has some xfce packages saying rdepends xubuntu-desktop, but they don't anymore
[03:42] <Treenaks> can I make it move faster, too?
[03:42] <sivang> Mithrandir: YOU ARE MY HERO!
[03:42] <Mithrandir> sivang :-)
=== sivang hugs Mithrandir for saving his life
[03:43] <j^> torkel thanks. what would be a good place to document that?
[03:44] <torkel> j^: somewhere close to gnome-session?
[03:46] <Kamion> janimo: example?
=== zace [n=marc@i577B4A39.versanet.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== herzi [n=herzi@c153053.adsl.hansenet.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:48] <janimo> xfce4-systray, xfce4-iconbox
[03:48] <janimo> and all ending in -plugin
=== stockholm [n=andi@petrus.schuldei.org]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:49] <janimo> Kamion, and the old names for libxfceXXX
[03:49] <Kamion> janimo: they do on hppa and sparc
[03:50] <Kamion> I'll take those two architectures out for now - they're not helping
[03:50] <Kamion> janimo: better now?
=== raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:52] <janimo> Kamion, better. I still have to see why the libs are there though
[03:53] <janimo> libxfce4mcs-client-2 for instance
[03:53] <Kamion> libxfce4mcs-client3 depends on libxfce4util-1 on ia64
[03:53] <janimo> Kamion, so should I take hppa and sparc out of the xubuntu-meta update script as well?
[03:53] <Kamion> xfdesktop4 depends on libxfce4mcs-client-2 on ia64
[03:53] <Kamion> janimo: no please don't, they'll be resurrected soon
[03:54] <janimo> Kamion, if these leftovers do not impend the promotion of the good parts in main and CD building I don't mind actually
[03:54] <Kamion> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/170401 says xfdesktop4 is in dep-wait
[03:55] <janimo> Kamion, for ia64 I assume
[03:55] <Kamion> yes
[03:55] <janimo> that arch misses x11-common
[03:55] <janimo> so everything is dep wait there
[03:55] <janimo> was last time I looked anyway
[03:55] <Kamion> huh? no it doesn't
[03:55] <Kamion> x11-common | 7.0.0-0ubuntu17 |        dapper | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc
[03:55] <Kamion> it might need a kick though
[03:55] <Kamion> infinity: ?
=== janimo looks again
[03:56] <janimo> hmm indeed, it progressed
=== raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:56] <infinity> Everything on ia64 needs serious kicking.  Ignore it for a while, I need to untabgle the mess after feature freeze when I have some time.
=== Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@84.5.57.99]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== doko [n=doko@dslb-084-059-098-042.pools.arcor-ip.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:57] <infinity> untangle, too.
[03:57] <janimo> Kamion, what tasks are still needed to start producing ISOs?
[03:57] <Kamion> janimo: primarily main promotion
[03:58] <janimo> if there's anything I need to do/should not do while this happens please ping me
[03:58] <Kamion> will do, don't worry
=== BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ptlo [n=senko@83-131-73-50.adsl.net.t-com.hr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:02] <tepsipakki> is it still time for a new version in main (libnfsidmap_0.12, now 0.8) ?
[04:02] <tepsipakki> s/it/there/
[04:04] <tepsipakki> it is only needed for NFSv4, and the only packages that depends on it is nfs-common/nfs-kernel-server
=== jono [n=jono@mail.openadvantage.org]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:09] <Xof> someone in the office is having trouble reporting bugs
[04:09] <Kamion> tepsipakki: can you get a main uploader to look at it and mail mdz/me if they think an exception's justified, please?
[04:09] <Kamion> Xof: #launchpad's probably better
[04:10] <Xof> specifically, when he tries to log a bug, he gets a page saying "oops, something just went wrong in launchpad"
[04:10] <jono> Kamion, maybe a bug with the partitioner in espresso - when I selected the unused space and clicked New I could only create an 'msdos label'
[04:10] <Kamion> jono: file bugs please
[04:10] <jdub> morning jono
[04:10] <tepsipakki> Kamion: sure, thanks
[04:10] <jdub> jono: nice stuff inspiring jonoedit
[04:10] <jono> hey jdub 
[04:10] <Kamion> Xof: #launchpad can investigate given the OOPS code
[04:10] <jono> Kamion, sure :)
[04:10] <jono> jdub, cheers :)
[04:10] <Kamion> jono: ("gparted sucks")
[04:10] <Kamion> well, that's harsh - but it may be inadequate for our purposes, we'll see
[04:11] <jono> Kamion, heh, figured you would say that it sucked a bit
[04:11] <Kamion> but an msdos label is surely what you want on a PC system
[04:11] <Kyral> Mornin
[04:12] <Kamion> jono: perhaps I should translate - by "create msdos label", it means "create a PC partition table"
[04:12] <jono> ahhh
[04:12] <Kamion> on many other systems partition tables are known as disklabels
[04:13] <Kyral> oh Kamion, if I modify the Espresso doc package, I'll just throw it to azuredream.homelinux.org/ubuntu (I plan to start documenting this weekend :P). Izzat alright with you?
=== lbm [n=lbm@x1-6-00-13-10-7a-d1-e4.k233.webspeed.dk]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:14] <Kamion> Kyral: fine
[04:14] <Kyral> kk, ty for lettin' me play with them :D
=== jpatrick [n=patrick@ubuntu/member/jpatrick]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== OculusAquilae [n=bastian@p548D0A10.dip0.t-ipconnect.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:21] <Riddell> mvo: is APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "1";  on by default in dapper?  it doesn't seem to be for me
[04:21] <mvo> Riddell: if you have update-notifier installed, otherwise not
[04:21] <Riddell> mvo: does update-notifier have a postinst script for that?
[04:22] <mvo> Riddell: the rational is that it only makes sense if you have something that tells you about the new updates
[04:22] <mvo> Riddell: no, it puts a file in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d
[04:23] <Riddell> yes, I see it now
[04:23] <Riddell> we'll have to do the same for adept-updater then
[04:24] <Riddell> hmm, then we'll have clashing files
[04:24] <freeflying> mvo: hi
=== ploum [n=ploum@user-85-201-2-96.tvcablenet.be]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:24] <mvo> Riddell: if adept-updater runs as root anyway it is not required. the rational for update-notifier droping that file is that it runs as user only. if adept-updater runs as root it can just do the apt-get update itself
[04:25] <mvo> Riddell: or will adept-updater register itself in the user session as a notification icon? then you need it of course :)
[04:25] <mvo> freeflying: hi
[04:25] <Riddell> sorry, I mean adept-notifier, not adept-updater
[04:25] <Riddell> adept-notifier is the systray icon that runs as user
[04:25] <mvo> Riddell: oh, right. yes, then it's needed
[04:25] <Riddell> mvo: how can we do that without clashing files?
[04:26] <Riddell> adept could just have a 11periodic instead of 10periodic but that doesn't seem very clean
[04:26] <freeflying> mvo: the best way to add IM variable for scim/skim is using langpack-pack-gnome/kde-base
[04:26] <mvo> Riddell: you could do that, I'm not sure if dpkg will like replace on conf files
[04:27] <mvo> freeflying: you mean to ship 90xinput in there?
[04:28] <freeflying> mvo: y. and this file can be add by postintall instead of ship in a package 
[04:29] <mvo> pitti: have you seen this suggestion by freeflying? about adding the required xsession stuff in langpack-{gnome,kde}?
=== wasabi [n=wasabi@c-71-199-218-234.hsd1.co.comcast.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:29] <pitti> mvo: no I didn't see it
[04:29] <Riddell> I'd say langauge-support- not language-packs
[04:29] <pitti> mvo: but no, langpacks won't contain any code, it's too difficult
[04:29] <pitti> same for support
[04:30] <mvo> Riddell: yes, sorry
[04:30] <pitti> mvo, freeflying: scim-* itself should do the necessary modifications
[04:30] <freeflying> pitti: how about postintall script
[04:30] <tepsipakki> where do I find people that can upload to main and could review a package? :)
[04:30] <pitti> freeflying: right, scim's (or any module's) postinstall should do that
[04:30] <Riddell> pitti: if scim does them then if affects the user even if they just have scim installed and not used (e.g. if scim is on the CD)
[04:30] <freeflying> pitti: then every locale user will have scim/skim startup when they loginto desktop
[04:30] <Riddell> also then how do you set the language used, which I think needs done
[04:31] <pitti> freeflying: well, *if* this interferes with users who don't use that particular locale (i. e. Chinese), then we can't do it by default anyway
[04:31] <pitti> isn't there an unintrusive way?
=== zeedo [n=zeedo@reboot-robot.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:32] <freeflying> pitti: actually it will be harmless for that 
[04:33] <pitti> freeflying: it seems to me that the most appropriate place would be in some scim-module then?
[04:34] <freeflying> pitti:  ok, and may I discuss it with later , I'd leave now 
[04:34] <pitti> ok, see you! have a nice evening
[04:35] <freeflying> pitti: thanks 
[04:35] <freeflying> pitti: Huahua may discuss this with u too
[04:35] <Riddell> Kamion: what happened to the files in http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/espresso/ubuntu/espresso/components/ ?
[04:36] <huahua> hello , pitti
=== Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:37] <pitti> hi huahua 
[04:37] <jono> Kamion, right, I will submit the bug
[04:42] <jono> Kamion, ok, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/espresso/+bug/32479
[04:42] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32479 in espresso "'create msdos label' in partitioner unclear" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[04:42] <jono> ahhh
[04:42] <jono> thats handy :)
[04:42] <jono> :P
[04:46] <sivang> Riddell: what's the name of the nice GUI KDE regular expressio builder program?
[04:46] <Kamion> jono: ta
[04:47] <Kamion> Riddell: nothing, they're all provided by other packages
[04:47] <Kamion> user-setup, partman, espresso-locale, espresso-grub
=== tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:48] <Riddell> sivang: the easy to pronounce kregexpeditor
[04:49] <sivang> Riddell: hehe
[04:49] <sivang> Riddell: thank you :)
=== HiddenWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.179.dynamic.phpg.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Keybuk [n=scott@213-78-32-60.ppp.onetel.net.uk]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:49] <sivang> Riddell: on useful piece of software :)
[04:50] <Treenaks> Riddell: in Dutch, it actually IS easy to pronounce that.. it's not in Scottish?
[04:50] <Riddell> the name doesn't roll off the tongue
[04:51] <Treenaks> no, it kind of sticks in the back of your throat
=== dholbach_ [n=daniel@i577B1AF3.versanet.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mjg59 [n=mjg59@217.147.92.49]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== lionelp_ [n=lionel@ip-128.net-82-216-65.rev.numericable.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:55] <huahua> pitti:  I will discuss those with freeflying more  .  skim can launch by itself, and scim need help eg for im-switch
[04:55] <huahua> scim can run on all locale 
[04:56] <huahua> and im-switch must work on special locale
[04:57] <huahua> im-switch provides the framework to switch default of input method on X Window System.
[04:57] <huahua> if it use im-switch to launch  the input method
[04:58] <jono> Kamion, I noticed a few other quirks with the partitioner - would you prefer one bug report with them all, or lots of bug reports?
=== freeflying-ibook [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.14]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:58] <huahua> he freeflying-ibook 
[04:59] <Kamion> jono: one per logical issue is good
[04:59] <jpatrick> he left
[04:59] <Kamion> launchpad has no means to split up bugs at the moment
[05:00] <jono> Kamion, no problem
[05:00] <atie> huahua, do you also consider xim with scim, non-CJK-users and CJK users who want to use other IMs?
[05:00] <huahua> atie: yes
[05:01] <Kamion> Riddell: is there likely to be anything I can merge (or even look at) for espresso-frontend-qt before feature freeze?
[05:01] <spacey> how can i find out which packages replaced package xlibs?
[05:03] <Riddell> Kamion: probably not merge yet but I'll give you what I have at the end of today
[05:03] <Kamion> spacey: install grep-dctrl, 'grep-dctrl -nsPackage -FReplaces xlibs /var/lib/apt/lists/*_Packages'
[05:03] <Kamion> Riddell: thanks
[05:03] <Kamion> that grep-dctrl is marginally wider than you actually want (it catches Replaces: xlibs-data too), but close enough for government work
[05:04] <huahua> atie:  User can also choose her favorite input method by 'im-switch' command or other GUI front-end
=== lakin [n=lakin@dsl-hill-66-18-228-60-cgy.nucleus.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[05:06] <huahua> atie: im-switch  launchs  input method  only  on the registered locale .
[05:06] <atie> huahua, yes, but im-switch doesn't count IM variables in ~/.gnomerc or ~/.kde/env/.
[05:06] <huahua> atie: it use /etc/X11/xinit/xinput.d/LOCALE
[05:07] <huahua> atie: it can count IM variables
[05:07] <huahua> hua@vgh:~$ ls /Sid/etc/X11/xinit/xinput.d/
[05:07] <huahua> ja_JP  none  zh_CN
[05:07] <huahua> like it
[05:07] <sivang> weird. KregExpEditor matches something that python math doesn't......
=== sivang grumbles
[05:08] <atie> huahua, in my case I'm using scim under en_US.
=== Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@84.5.57.99]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[05:10] <sivang> ah, found the issue. python matches from _the_ _start_ of the string
[05:10] <huahua> humm
[05:11] <jdub> Kamion: germinate packages!
[05:11] <atie> huahua, and make /etc/X11/Xsession.d/75scim by myself because of 90im-switch
[05:11] <huahua> atie: I see
[05:13] <huahua> atie: I used /etc/X11/Xsession.d/95xinput before im-switch come be
=== rajasun [n=maximusp@bb219-75-72-146.singnet.com.sg]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[05:13] <Mez> Kamion:ping
[05:15] <huahua> atie: if we use /etc/X11/Xsession.d/75scim  , user will can't choose her  favorite input method .
[05:15] <Mez> or infinity ping
[05:16] <Kamion> jdub: for ages
[05:16] <Kamion> Mez: yes?
[05:16] <Mez> Kamion, regarding /usr/web
[05:16] <Mez> would /usr/share/simais/web/bin be ok?
[05:17] <Kamion> Mez: if the stuff there is architecture-independent, yes
[05:17] <Kamion> if it's architecture-dependent, use /usr/lib/simias instead
[05:17] <tseng> if its xsp stuff it should be arch indep
[05:18] <Mez> yeah it's arch indep
[05:18] <Mez> does this mean i have to make the package arch-indep ?
[05:18] <Mez> or create a new arch indep for those files?
[05:20] <dholbach> *sigh* I find it easier to read ubuntu-users@ than ubuntu-devel@ at the moment.
[05:20] <Mez> dholbach, lol
[05:21] <jdub> dholbach: ?!
[05:21] <jdub> (mind, i haven't looked at u-d for a bit)
[05:21] <jdub> do we need some more tear gas in there?
[05:22] <seb128> jdub: 230 mails on u-d since monday morning
[05:22] <jdub> goodness me
[05:22] <Keybuk> all of them about totem
[05:22] <seb128> or gnome-screensaver :p
[05:22] <jdub> what's the controversy?
[05:22] <Keybuk> "I don't care about legal issues, compatibility issues, etc. I WANT TO WATCH MY PORN!"
=== ozamosi [n=ozamosi@80.252.191.79]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[05:22] <dholbach> Keybuk: I fully agree with you.
[05:22] <Keybuk> jdub: totem and gstreamer 0.10 do not support enough formats of porn
[05:23] <doko> seb128: where's PlanetaryGears gone in gnome-screensaver ?
[05:23] <jdub> Keybuk: ahr
[05:23] <doko> seb128: where's the preview button gone?
[05:23] <seb128> doko: that's a question for ogra
[05:23] <seb128> I don't mention screensaver stuff
[05:23] <doko> ogra: ^^^
[05:23] <Keybuk> I think we should make a wiki page for people to attach the movies they're having trouble playing with it :)
[05:23] <dholbach> Ok, I will add a  *please don't even think of mailing your ideas to any mailing list* to the media testing announce
[05:23] <Keybuk> obviously to explain why those movies can't be played legally
[05:24] <seb128> and I don't use screensaver not know what PlanetaryGears is in fact :p
[05:24] <doko> seb128: and the different paste buffers in gnome-terminal and X ? 
[05:24] <Keybuk> "this algorithm is patented by fraunhoffer, and those girls don't look older than 15"
[05:24] <seb128> Keybuk: trying to collect free p0rn? :)
[05:24] <stockholm> lol
[05:24] <seb128> doko: fixes with CVS, new tarbalsl next week
[05:24] <doko> nice
[05:24] <seb128> "fixed with CVS, new tarballs next week"
[05:24] <ogra> doko, no settings button ... i can add glanetary gears if you urgently need it its just another .desktop file :)
[05:25] <ogra> *planetary even
=== seb128 is thinking to unsubscribe from ubuntu-devel
=== Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[05:26] <dholbach> seb128: I'd unsubscribe from ubuntu-desktop@ if we'd move that kind of discussion to ubuntu-desktop@
[05:26] <seb128> lol
[05:27] <ogra> but its a desktop task, isnt it ? 
=== ogra hides
=== lakin [n=lakin@dsl-hill-66-18-228-60-cgy.nucleus.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[05:29] <doko> and *g*lanetary gears is Gnome^2 ;-P
[05:29] <ogra> hehe
[05:35] <jdub> dholbach: there's more moral authority on ubuntu-desktop to knock this stuff off
[05:35] <jdub> dholbach: so we have to push people there first ;)
[05:36] <jdub> "Move readahead-list into /sbin so it's actually on seb's root filesystem."
[05:37] <jdub> ha ha ha
[05:37] <jdub> is filesystem boog
[05:37] <Kamion> Mez: normally only Architecture: all packages should install to /usr/share, yes; if it's inconvenient to split the packages up, you can just use /usr/lib
[05:37] <jdub> Keybuk: readahead-watch -> nice :)
[05:37] <Keybuk> jdub: yeah, needs some tinkering yet
[05:37] <Keybuk> and I'm not sure it orders the list right
[05:38] <Keybuk> but I thought I'd get a first upload in, just to publish early and often, type thing
[05:38] <Mez> Kamion, FAIR ENOUGH - I'LL TALK WITH IFOLDER DEVS ABOUT HWO THEY WANT TO DO IT
[05:38] <Mez> damn caps
[05:39] <jono> later all!
=== jono [n=jono@mail.openadvantage.org]  has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] 
[05:39] <seb128> jdub: I've already no nice udev automatic debug due to Keybuk :p
[05:39] <seb128> seems it's not good to have differents partitions for /usr and /var nowadays
[05:40] <jdub> seb128: he obviously has no respect for anal retentive filesystem layouts!
[05:40] <seb128> bastard!
[05:40] <Keybuk> seb128: *shrug* you didn't have it before, so it's hardly a regression :)
[05:40] <Keybuk> I'm not putting everything in /sbin for you <g>
[05:41] <seb128> bah ;)
[05:41] <Kamion> mjg59: xserver-xorg-air-core binaries accepted FYI
[05:41] <mjg59> Kamion: Excellent
[05:43] <ploum> http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/cancomical-lynchpad
=== lakin [n=lakin@dsl-hill-66-18-228-60-cgy.nucleus.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== lionelp [n=lionel@ip-128.net-82-216-65.rev.numericable.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[05:49] <carlos> seb128: btw, do you know why gossip doesn't have any sound on dapper? I think it's related with gstreamer 0.10
[05:49] <seb128> carlos: nop, I can try having a look later, but it doesn't use gst
[05:50] <carlos> seb128: isn't the new GNOME using gstreamer as the way to play sounds?
[05:50] <seb128> no
[05:50] <carlos> oh!
[05:50] <carlos> ok
[05:50] <seb128> libgnome still uses esound
[05:50] <seb128> apps using gst are using 0.10
[05:51] <seb128> ie: totem, rhythmbox, sound-juicer, gnome-media
[05:51] <seb128> bet sound events still use esound
[05:51] <carlos> seb128: the problem came more or less at the same time gstreamer 0.10 was available for dapper
[05:51] <seb128> probably not due to gst
[05:51] <carlos> seb128: sound events work, that's why I thought it was a problem with gossip not using gstreamer 0.10
[05:52] <seb128> I'll have a look later and let you know :)
[05:52] <carlos> seb128: it's not a big issue, so if you are busy, don't worry
[05:52] <seb128> right, I'll have a look but not now :)
[05:53] <carlos> ok, thanks
=== greenpenguin13 [n=joseph@user-6813.l1.c1.dsl.pol.co.uk]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== stratus [n=stratus@cronopio.rits.org.br]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:02] <carlos> pitti: hi
[06:02] <pitti> hi carlos 
[06:02] <carlos> pitti: could you join #launchpad ?
[06:02] <pitti> yes
[06:02] <carlos> we are having problems with pkgstriptranslations
[06:02] <xxenon> are nvidia drivers currently broken ?
[06:02] <ogra> pitti, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/Screenshot.png
[06:03] <ogra> pitti, is that g-v-m or udev ?
[06:04] <pitti> ogra: rather gnome-vfs, I'd say
[06:04] <ogra> hmm, k
[06:04] <ogra> seb128, ?? known error of gnome-vfs ? ^^^^
[06:06] <dholbach> ogra: there were no changes to gnome-vfs in nearly two weeks - when did this start happening?
[06:06] <pitti> ogra: your lshal and mount output could be interesting
[06:06] <ogra> dholbach, i didnt look directly on my desktop since about a week, it wasnt there last time i looked though ...
[06:07] <ogra> pitti, nothing unusual in mount ...
[06:08] <ogra> pitti, haha
[06:09] <ogra> pitti, i had manually mounted /dev/hda7 to /media/cdrom due to lack of a mountpoint for it ... nautilus/gnome-vfs/hal labeled it proc ...
=== Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:09] <pitti> ogra: still odd, unless the partition's device label is really 'proc'
[06:10] <pitti> ogra: can you check?
[06:10] <ogra> unlikely ...
[06:10] <pitti> ogra:sudo blkid /dev/hda7
[06:10] <ogra> /dev/hda7: UUID="83b79969-0136-4d18-bba4-56ec8445c562" SEC_TYPE="ext2" TYPE="ext3" LABEL="/"
[06:10] <Riddell> Kamion: I'm merging in the language page in espresso and I get an error..
[06:10] <Riddell> File "/media/hda4/jr/src/espresso/ubuntu/espresso/components/language.py", line 44, in run
[06:10] <Riddell> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xd8 in position 96: ordinal not in range(128)
[06:11] <ogra> pitti, its my tect installation ...
[06:11] <Riddell> Kamion: is there somewhere I need to set the encoding for it not to be ascii?  
[06:11] <ogra> *test
[06:11] <Riddell> I have the coding: utf-8 line at the top of kdeui.py
[06:11] <pitti> ogra: and lshal has 'proc' as the device label for that file?
[06:12] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:/mnt/devel/packages/ubuntu-artwork-0.2.29$ lshal|grep proc
[06:12] <ogra>   linux.pmu_path = '/proc/pmu'  (string)
[06:12] <ogra>   linux.pmu_path = '/proc/pmu/battery_0'  (string)
[06:12] <ogra>   linux.pmu_path = '/proc/pmu/info'  (string)
[06:12] <ogra> nope
[06:13] <Burgwork> somebody pinged me?
[06:13] <pitti> ogra: iz gtk bug, then
[06:13] <ogra> heh
[06:13] <ogra> likely :)
=== lionelp_ [n=lionel@ip-128.net-82-216-65.rev.numericable.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== herzi [n=herzi@c153053.adsl.hansenet.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:16] <Kamion> Riddell: what version of espresso-locale do you have there?
[06:17] <Riddell> Kamion: 0.27ubuntu8
[06:18] <Kamion> Riddell: could you run espresso with ESPRESSO_DEBUG=1 and tell me what the last bit of debconf interaction before that was?
[06:19] <Kamion> Riddell: it's also possible the line number is just lying and that the problem is that you haven't made sure that strings given back to you by the python-qt bindings are turned into python unicode objects
[06:19] <Kamion> Riddell: there are a number of places in the gtk frontend where I do unicode(some python-gtk function)
[06:19] <ogra> Kamion, ubuntu-artwork has a new child, called ubuntu-artwork-screensaver, can you promote it to main and un NEW it ? its only a single png 
[06:20] <ogra> (once its built that is)
[06:20] <Kamion> ask me once it's built or I'll forget
[06:20] <ogra> ok
=== mdz_ [n=mdz@studiocity-motorola-bsr1-70-36-194-85.vnnyca.adelphia.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:22] <Riddell> debconf (filter): widget found for languagechooser/language-name-fb
[06:22] <Riddell> debconf (developer): <-- GET languagechooser/language-name
[06:22] <Riddell> Kamion: ^^
[06:23] <Riddell> Kamion: if I add 'utf-8' as the last argument to unicode() in language.py it works
=== nnonix [n=null@gwllnet.smig.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:25] <Kamion> Riddell: nothing after that, even after you ctrl-c espresso?
[06:25] <Kamion> there should be a response
[06:26] <Riddell> there is..
[06:26] <Riddell> debconf (developer): --> 0 English
[06:26] <Riddell> debconf (developer): <-- METAGET languagechooser/language-name choices-c
[06:26] <Riddell> debconf (developer): --> 0 C, Albanian, Arabic, Basque, Belarusian, Bengali, Bosnian, Bulgarian, Catalan, Chinese (Simplifie
[06:26] <Riddell> etc
[06:26] <Kamion> I would find the whole response useful
[06:26] <Kamion> perhaps in /msg
[06:26] <Riddell> well it's just a list of all the languages
[06:26] <Kamion> please
[06:27] <Kamion> this should be frontend-independent, and it works for me
[06:27] <Riddell> Kamion: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/567017
[06:27] <Kamion> unless you're poking at python's default encoding?
[06:28] <seb128> ogra: weird, that's new
[06:28] <fabbione> mdz, Kamion: ping?
[06:28] <Kamion> fabbione: I'm right here
[06:28] <Riddell> Kamion: not that I know of
[06:28] <ogra> seb128, its as well not reproducable ...
[06:29] <fabbione> Kamion: i need UVF exception for Redhat Cluster Suite.
[06:29] <ogra> so dont worry to much
[06:29] <fabbione> Kamion:   The "Upstream told us to do an urgent update or CMAN will bite us!"
[06:29] <fabbione> + release
=== Treenaks [n=martijn@thuis.foodfight.org]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:29] <ogra> seb128, i just tried ... will dig more if it should appear again
[06:29] <fabbione> Kamion: for the history, that package is only built on top of their stable branch that gets only bug fixes
[06:30] <Kamion> Riddell: can't think of any other explanation ...
[06:30] <fabbione> Kamion: it's nothing more than a CVS update
=== Kamion CVS updates fabbione to five years from now
=== bmon [n=monnahan@99.Red-83-37-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:30] <Kamion> fabbione: please mail changelog to mdz+me
[06:31] <Kamion> Riddell: I can go through and put 'utf-8' on the end of all unicode() calls - would just like to know why :-/
[06:31] <Riddell> Kamion: I'll ask pykde types to see if qt/kde is likely to be poking at python's default encoding 
[06:34] <Kamion> sticking 'utf-8' on the end seems to work, so I'll do that
[06:35] <Burgwork> mjg59, going to go for more fame by posting the aiglx stuff to -devel-announce?
[06:37] <mvo> Kamion: I just tested expresso and it didn't like my grub anymore. I get a grub error 15 after the install
=== k31th_ [n=k31th@keiths.gotadsl.co.uk]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== sistpoty [n=sistpoty@ubuntu/member/sistpoty]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:41] <Kamion> mvo: if you could upgrade espresso to the current version in dapper and send me /var/log/installer/espresso, that would help
[06:41] <mjg59> Burgwork: Not just yet
[06:41] <mvo> Kamion: I was using the version from the latest live-cd. I'll upgrade from that and re-try the install, ok?
[06:42] <mvo> Kamion: anything else but espresso I need to upgrade?
[06:43] <Kamion> mvo: it'll probably pull in espresso-locale, otherwise no
[06:43] <Kamion> unless the latest live CD happens to have espresso 0.99.15 anyway
[06:43] <mvo> I upgraded to 0.99.15 now
=== MagnusR [n=magru@c83-250-59-127.bredband.comhem.se]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:44] <Kamion> Riddell: ok, fixed in espresso bzr now and I'm fixing localechooser
=== atie [n=atie@12.163.162.2]  has left #ubuntu-devel ["bye"] 
=== ogra_ [n=ogra@p5089D071.dip.t-dialin.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:46] <AlinuxOS> pitti, I saw a bug corection :) thank you.
[06:47] <pitti> AlinuxOS: breezy langpacks should be happy again for you :)
[06:47] <AlinuxOS> ;)
[06:47] <AlinuxOS> pitti, I'm working for dapper and gnome 2.14 now :)
=== ompaul [n=ompaul@194.125.86.92]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:52] <sivang> is sys.stdin.readline() a good way to wait for the user to press enter on the console?
[06:53] <jpatrick> 'pass'
[06:53] <sivang> jpatrick: ?
[06:54] <jpatrick> nm
[06:54] <sivang> jpatrick: were you answering me?
[06:55] <jpatrick> sivang: I thougth  'pass' was a command to wait for the user
[06:56] <Kamion> (it's not)
=== lionelp [n=lionel@ip-128.net-82-216-65.rev.numericable.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:59] <Burgwork> mjg59, are you coordinating with the debian xstrike force? They have filed itps on aiglx and xgl
[06:59] <mjg59> Burgwork: I hadn't as yet, since I don't read d-d any more
=== LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[07:02] <mvo> Kamion: interessting. on the espresso install was no grub installed
[07:02] <Kamion> mvo: yeah, I thought as much
[07:03] <Kamion> mvo: problem is that at the moment it has to install grub from the network, and sometimes it doesn't manage to get networking set up properly first
=== mae [n=mae@Host-000d612e3040.dhcp.csub.edu]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[07:03] <Kamion> so known problem - I'll try to figure out something to do about it soon
[07:03] <sivang> Kamion: could you please assure me, when I'm doing something like proc = subprocess.Popen(....,stdin=subprocess.PIPE,stdout=PIPE,stderr=PIPE..) in a pyhton program, and in another part of it I attempt sys.stdin.readline() , will the former part clash with the attempt to read from the user? the former is how I spawn the program I use to do some of the work, so I assumed it will have no effect on the python program IO
[07:03] <Kamion> sivang: proc.stdin is independent from sys.stdin, so yes, that's safe
[07:04] <sivang> Kamion: apparently, it stills IO from the main process...
[07:04] <mvo> Kamion: ok, np. if it's known I won't bug you
[07:04] <Kamion> sivang: if you're having problems, I'd advise using strace to investigate which fds python is actually reading from
=== poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-87-85.xlate.ufl.edu]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[07:05] <Diziet> This magicmirror snapshot thing is very nice.  I have daily snapshots of the archive running back a whole month ...
[07:05] <sivang> Kamion: when the main (python) program sys.stdin.readline() waits, I can't see anything I'm typing. Is that a sign for IO stealing? :)
[07:06] <Kamion> no, that suggests that something has turned off local echo on your terminal
[07:06] <Kamion> at a guess, anyway
=== Seveaz [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[07:07] <Kamion> as I say, use strace before flailing around trying to Zen what's going on :)
[07:07] <sivang> Kamion: ah , right. thanks it must be it if what you said previously is correct. 
[07:07] <sivang> (which I tend to think is ;-)
=== lionelp [n=lionel@ip-128.net-82-216-65.rev.numericable.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[07:12] <sivang> Kamion: trying that now, but it'\s ugly :) as my python program spanw another progra, reads from its stderr , stdout and write to stdin ..
[07:13] <Kamion> 'strace -f -s 1024 -o /tmp/foo.trace your-python-program' and look at /tmp/foo.trace in another window
[07:22] <jdub> ogra_: argh, can you tell me when you're going to do u-a changes?
[07:24] <Kamion> (it's in NEW anyway ...)
[07:24] <Kamion> or will be
=== mdz_ [n=mdz@studiocity-motorola-bsr1-70-36-194-85.vnnyca.adelphia.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== lakin [n=lakin@dsl-hill-66-18-228-60-cgy.nucleus.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mae [n=mae@F00847Oasis-00e0b857b31a.dhcp.csub.edu]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[07:25] <sivang> Kamion: also, what's interesting is that when I break my main py prog in the middle, is has the same sympton as if the echo is turned off, and also when I press CR the next bas line doesn't come after a CRLF, but as if only a " " space was applied.
[07:26] <ogra_> jdub, gnome-screensaver-default-image is one of my specs
[07:26] <mdz> mjg59: that laptop-mode hang is definitely still around; happened twice just now
[07:26] <ogra_> jdub, oh, you mean we clashed ? 
=== jcole [n=jcole@ata01cs602.americas.hp.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[07:26] <ogra_> jdub, really sorry ...
[07:27] <jdub> ogra_: you're adding stuff while i'm repositorising it and so on - prefer if you send me changes if they're not just patches (it's going to be ubuntu-native very soon)
[07:27] <jdub> ogra_: mostly waving my hands around wildly because i'm sitting here setting up the repo and shoving in changes as we speak ;)
[07:27] <mjg59> mdz: Bugger. Right, ok.
[07:28] <ogra_> jdub, ok ...
[07:28] <mjg59> mdz: When you're on battery, right?
[07:28] <mdz> mjg59: correct
[07:28] <mdz> I was on battery for all of 60 seconds or so and hung both times
[07:28] <hunger> Anyone else having suspend-trouble?
[07:29] <mjg59> mdz: Right. Which fits with ATA breakage.
[07:29] <hunger> echo -n mem > /sys/power/state gives a "device or resource busy" here.
[07:29] <mdz> mjg59: anything I can do to track it down?
[07:29] <mjg59> mdz: Get it on the console and see if there's an error?
[07:30] <jcole> when will print to pdf in gnome-print be supported again (currently doesn't work)? i'm running breezy
[07:30] <mjg59> mdz: Is it reliable in terms of when it does it?
[07:31] <mjg59> I mean, does it happen on all power transitions?
=== lionelp_ [n=lionel@ip-128.net-82-216-65.rev.numericable.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== j^ [n=j@e178060177.adsl.alicedsl.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jcole thinks ps2pdf doesn't understand the "newer" ps format used by some apps (ie: firefox)...
=== lfittl [n=lfittl@83-65-245-16.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[07:39] <mvo> Mithrandir: is #31051 something for you? he wants to remove "update-manager" and "update-notifer" from the live cd
[07:40] <Mithrandir> mvo: nocando, we use -desktop there
[07:40] <mvo> Mithrandir: I thought so, so I can reject the bug?
[07:40] <Mithrandir> mvo: we can disable the cron jobs by default, though.. Kamion, thoughts?
=== zeedo [n=zeedo@reboot-robot.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[07:41] <Mithrandir> we're kinda reluctant to munge the image more than absolutely necessary.
=== seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[07:46] <mvo> Mithrandir: ok, I rejected it
=== lionelp_ [n=lionel@ip-128.net-82-216-65.rev.numericable.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jcole1 [n=jcole@palrel2.hp.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== JaneW [n=JaneW@dsl-165-213-71.telkomadsl.co.za]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@lambda.chem.unr.edu]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mdke boggles at the devel mailing list nowadays
[07:56] <jdub> don't boggle - redirect!
[07:57] <mdke> jdub, can we make it a moderation only list? you can moderate
[07:58] <tseng> mdke: you dont want that
[07:58] <tseng> mdke: it will take a month to post an email.
[07:58] <jdub> mdke: no, that would suck
[07:58] <jdub> mdke: we just need to use social solutions
[07:58] <jdub> not technical ones
[07:58] <mdke> it was a joke
[07:58] <mdke> crappy english sense of humour
[07:59] <jdub> incompatible withe the crappy english weather
[07:59] <mdke> yeah
[07:59] <LaserJock> I don't understand this "social solutions no technical ones" thing. can you elaborate?
[08:00] <jdub> LaserJock: better to encourage people to understand good behaviour and participate well, instead of trying to use technology to box them in
[08:00] <ploum> jdub: not at all. How could english live in *that* weather without *that* sens of humor ?
=== j^ [n=j@e178060177.adsl.alicedsl.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[08:01] <jdub> ploum: by becoming mass murderers?
[08:01] <ploum> hm.. I will investigate this theory
[08:01] <ploum> english weather is like belgian weather in a good day
[08:02] <ploum> (that's perhaps why we have better beer)
[08:02] <ploum> LaserJock: it's easy to explain. Do you prefer a closed door at castle Anthrax or a spanking party ?
[08:03] <ploum> "Open the door ! Open the door " -> technical solution
[08:03] <ploum> "Naughty naughty zout !" -> social solution
[08:03] <ploum> That's why we prefer social solutions
=== jdub chuckles
=== Burgwork wonders about ploum 
[08:04] <jdub> yes, JUST LIKE THAT
[08:05] <j^> can i change the effects in metacity/xorg-air?
[08:06] <LaserJock> but can we make social solutions? It would seem that technical solutions are much easier to make. :-)
[08:06] <jdub> j^: you want some castle anthrax effects?
=== j^ hopes its only the i830m that is soo slow
[08:06] <jdub> LaserJock: that's the problem
[08:06] <jdub> LaserJock: lazy people/communities do exactly that
[08:07] <j^> jdub i want the windows to minimize towards the window list
[08:07] <jdub> j^: instead of zooming, and then flying off towards it
[08:07] <jdub> ?
[08:07] <j^> jdub and moving it to another desktop it would be nice to slide out in that direction
[08:08] <j^> jdub its doings something strange and than disapears in the middle of the desktop
=== lakin [n=lakin@dsl-hill-66-18-228-60-cgy.nucleus.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== j^ blames it on the the graphic card and switches it off again.
[08:10] <jdub> j^: yeah, so it zooms out, then in the background, swooshes off to the window list
[08:10] <lakin> Hey guys, just wanted to let all the ubuntu-devs know that they rock!
[08:10] <jdub> j^: i don't know why it does that behind everything
[08:10] <j^> jdub what graphic card do you have?
[08:10] <lfittl> Kamion: ping
[08:11] <jdub> j^: radeon on lappy, nvidia on desktop
=== jdub misses his i810 lappy :(
[08:12] <whiprush> you know, the new X60 comes with an intel card. :p
[08:12] <j^> jdub so you use Xorg-air or Xgl?
=== florian_kc [n=fuchs@dns.kernelconcepts.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[08:13] <florian_kc> hi all
[08:13] <Amaranth> Doesn't Xglx use glitz to do OpenGL acceleration of RENDER too?
[08:14] <Amaranth> I don't think Xorg-aiglx does that, although with EXA for open-source drivers and nVidia's closed-source ones I think it's covered (RenderAccel)
[08:17] <LaserJock> jdub: do you have any references talking about "social solutions", I'm somewhat intrigued and I know it probably seems stupid but I'd like to figure out how to contribute to the social solutions.
[08:17] <jdub> um
[08:17] <jdub> not really
[08:17] <jdub> "be nice" :)
[08:18] <LaserJock> that's ok, I just thought there might be something right off hand
[08:18] <LaserJock> so just basically abide by the CoC?
[08:18] <Burgwork> LaserJock, ask people politely to post elsewhere, suggest an elsewhere and tell them about what the -devel list is
=== jpatrick [n=patrick@ubuntu/member/jpatrick]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[08:19] <LaserJock> hmmm, that sorta seems like just ignoring the situation. Or is it more like moving it to a more appropriate forum?
[08:20] <jdub> the latter
[08:20] <LaserJock> it usually comes across to me as "bugger off, we don't want your discussion here"
=== Pygi [n=mario@83-131-251-197.adsl.net.t-com.hr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[08:20] <jdub> that's why redirecting is important
[08:21] <jdub> or putting your foot down where appropriate
=== poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-87-85.xlate.ufl.edu]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[08:21] <LaserJock> anyway, this is quite OT so I'll shut up now and let you guys get back to work. I'm just very interested in the social aspect of Debian/Ubuntu development.
[08:26] <Pygi> laser: what was decided yesterday about protocols?
=== stratus [n=stratus@cronopio.rits.org.br]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[08:30] <herzi> mvo: ping
[08:30] <mvo> herzi: pong
[08:31] <herzi> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/5752
[08:31] <Ubugtu> malone bug 5752 in update-notifier "TrayIcon-Code is suboptimal" [Normal,Needs info]  
[08:31] <herzi> i still get those lines
[08:31] <mvo> herzi: what theme do you use? I can't see those lines
[08:32] <herzi> clearlooks
[08:32] <herzi> try a transparent panel, then you should see them with any theme
=== pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[08:35] <mvo> herzi: thanks, the transparency helps. I will have a look RSN
[08:35] <herzi> mvo: take a look at tray.c:190
[08:35] <herzi> the bug might be in that passage
[08:35] <herzi> (at least for the update icon)
[08:37] <mvo> herzi: sorry, tray.c is dead code (I need to remove it from the repository)
[08:37] <mvo> herzi: update.c and update-notifier.c are the ones used nowdays
=== Panzerboy [n=NoName@unaffiliated/panzerboy]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[08:38] <mvo> herzi: my suspicion is that the other apps don't hide the EggTrayIcon but destroy it complettely
[08:39] <herzi> no
[08:39] <herzi> i wrote some test app for that
[08:39] <mvo> herzi: nice, is it available somewhere so that I can have a look?
[08:43] <LaserJock> Pygi: well, I think somebody (Burgwork perhaps) closed the bug. Basically I think it was decided that it isn't Ubuntu's problem :-)
[08:43] <Pygi> LaserJock: that's kinda ignorant, but it's not my call to decide on somethin' like that :-/
[08:43] <sivang> mvo: and idea?
[08:43] <sivang> s/and/any/
[08:44] <Burgwork> LaserJock, I closed the bug. It is not an Ubuntu problem
[08:45] <Burgwork> Pygi, and there is nothing we can realistically do about it, without crippling functionality over a vague threat that doesn't even effect Ubuntu/Canonical
[08:45] <LaserJock> Pygi: well, maybe dapper+1 might be a better time time to address that issue. I'm wondering if it needs to be an upstream thing.
[08:45] <Burgwork> LaserJock, this is an example of a social issue, not a technical one
=== shaya [n=spotter@user-0ccembr.cable.mindspring.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[08:46] <shaya> seb128: you here?
[08:46] <shaya> wondering why gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg is compiled w/ out a-52/ac3 support
[08:47] <Pygi> Burgwork: true, but it does affect users...
[08:48] <Burgwork> Pygi, that I don't disagree with
[08:48] <Burgwork> Pygi, I would be more interested in getting a .ubuntu service off the ground
[08:49] <LaserJock> Burgwork: .ubuntu for jabber?
[08:49] <Burgwork> LaserJock, yes
[08:50] <LaserJock> that would be very good, I think.
[08:50] <Pygi> yup, agreed...
[08:50] <Burgwork> Pygi, LaserJock https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMac
=== lfittl [n=lfittl@83-65-245-16.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[08:55] <Pygi> burgwork: seems kinda like some kind of intranet web app....maybe somethin' eyeOS like :)
[08:55] <Burgwork> Pygi, no, it is more than that
[08:55] <Burgwork> and nto a web app
[08:56] <Pygi> ah,kk, I'll read it up more now *entire maybe :) *
=== yosch__ [n=yosch@lns-bzn-56-82-255-207-96.adsl.proxad.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[08:57] <mvo> herzi: if you could pass me a copy of that test-app that would be very helpful :)
[08:58] <herzi> i'm just looking for it
[08:59] <Pygi> burgwork: seems like a nice idea, but it would be hell of a job to integrate all those things together :-/
=== sistpoty [n=sistpoty@ubuntu/member/sistpoty]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[09:00] <Burgwork> Pygi, got to start somewhere
[09:01] <Pygi> burgwork: true...has any of work started?
=== zee606 [n=d84465f1@zeebrothers.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Gloubiboulga is now known as Gloubi_Aw
[09:03] <LaserJock> if even half of those things got going it would be awesome. I think email, address book, and jabber/blogging would be great. Seems like it would be a lot of time, and hardware.
[09:04] <Burgwork> Pygi, not yet
[09:04] <Burgwork> hula will be the answer for some of it, I suspect
[09:04] <Pygi> also, roundcube seems like a very good app
[09:04] <LaserJock> why is it called .Mac though?
[09:05] <Burgwork> LaserJock, because that is the working title, to compare it to an existing service
[09:05] <Pygi> laser: to resemble .Mac service :) the name can  be change as stated there :P
[09:05] <LaserJock> ok, I was just getting a little worried that's all;-)
[09:05] <jcole> shaya: i noticed that gstreamer-ffmpeg is also excluded from all gstreamer-plugins-* meta packages, for some reason
[09:06] <Pygi> laserjock: :P
[09:06] <shaya> jcole: reason being that it seems ac3 support is in ugly plugins
[09:06] <shaya> but very hard to figure out what plugins ones needs
[09:06] <shaya> took me a while to figure it out
[09:07] <Pygi> burgwork: roundcube email system seems a lot nicer then hula one's, but then again if we use hula for calendar and adress book ... :-/
=== Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de]  has left #ubuntu-devel [] 
[09:13] <jcole> shaya: i have more success with totem-xine and mplayer on breezy (uses gstreamer 0.8)... not sure about dapper
[09:14] <Burgwork> Pygi, the backend to hula is netmail, which is rock solid and known to scale very well
[09:14] <shaya> jcole: I was using totem-xine w/o a problem
[09:14] <shaya> but it doesn't play nice on my laptop w/ 6 channel ac3
[09:14] <shaya> can't control speaker settings
[09:14] <Pygi> burgwork: yes, that is understandable, as well the roundcube is in deep alpha, but still :-/
[09:14] <shaya> unsure that gst works perfectly, but can hear what I need to hear
[09:15] <Pygi> also, roundcube contains adress book
[09:15] <Pygi> just testing it now...
[09:16] <tseng> roundcube is not at all in the same class as hula
[09:16] <Pygi> tseng: yes, I know...
[09:16] <Burgwork> tseng, can you elaborate?
[09:17] <tseng> roundcube is a webmail client that sits on top of a traditional unix mail stack
[09:17] <tseng> hula is netmail, and multi-user enterprise calendering and address book
[09:17] <tseng> they arent nearly comparable
[09:18] <tseng> you could compare roundcube to squirrelmail
[09:19] <Pygi> yup, because there are meant as pure webmail solutions
[09:21] <tseng> Pygi: have you ever used exchange and outlook heavily
[09:22] <Pygi> tseng: sorry, I haven't used windows heavily since 3.0 :-/
[09:22] <Pygi> and even then I only had it for a week 
[09:22] <tseng> I get the feeling you dont understand the more important use cases
[09:22] <Pygi> yup, I got the point
[09:22] <tseng> mail is nice, but I can get imap mail 100 ways
[09:22] <tseng> enterprise address book and calendering, not so much
[09:23] <Pygi> true...
[09:25] <Pygi> I nowhere said that we don't need address book and calendaring, haven't I? :)
[09:25] <Pygi> also, we need something that will be able to hold out a lot of users
=== ctd [i=ctd@succubus.progsoc.uts.edu.au]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mae [n=mae@Host-000d612e3040.dhcp.csub.edu]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-87-85.xlate.ufl.edu]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[09:29] <LaserJock> would it be bad idea to just start out offering some services like that to Ubuntu members as sort of a "in recognition of your contribution to Ubuntu ..." ? 
[09:29] <mae> where can i download slightly more aged kernels from the dapper repository - the current ones all have problems - build 12 worked like a charm for me but is no longer in the repo.
[09:31] <Kamion> lfittl: yes
[09:31] <Kamion> ?
[09:31] <Pygi> LaserJock: that would mean that we are favoring one users above others...but that might not be a bad idea as a test of a service
[09:32] <lfittl> Kamion: Could you tell me if the audiere source is still in NEW?
[09:33] <Kamion> lfittl: yeah
[09:33] <lfittl> Kamion: k, thanks
[09:33] <Kamion> lfittl: I sort of automatically avoid things that mention "MP3" :-)
=== jlj [n=agp@207.67.194.249]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[09:34] <Kamion> is MP3 support enabled in that audiere build?
[09:34] <Kamion> I guess it's ok for universe anyway
[09:34] <lfittl> let me look..
[09:34] <Kamion> but still ... there were easier things to process
[09:35] <Kamion> and I'm sort of out of energy for NEW for today
[09:35] <lfittl> Kamion: sure, I just wanted to know if it got Rejected or not, the whitelisting is not working since the soyuz rollout..
[09:37] <lfittl> Kamion: I think mp3 gets activated, but I don't have time atm to find that out, I will just wait for you / elmo processing audiere
[09:38] <Kamion> lfittl: don't think there is any whitelisting any more, you just have to be in the ubuntu-dev team
[09:38] <Kamion> if you're being sponsored, then yes, you won't get mail
[09:38] <Kamion> although I think your sponsor will
[09:38] <lfittl> Kamion: yep all my sponsors get the mails
[09:39] <sistpoty> Kamion: does the sponsor get a rejected-mail as well?
[09:39] <lfittl> Kamion: no chance for MOTU hopefuls to get this mail?
[09:39] <Kamion> lfittl: ask on #launchpad, I have no control
[09:39] <Kamion> sistpoty: you too, I don't have hard facts, just what Kinnison told me
[09:39] <sistpoty> Kamion: will do, thx
[09:39] <Kamion> he told me that the signer gets mail
[09:40] <Kamion> lfittl,sistpoty: in any case, there's no way to give reasons to soyuz for manual rejects at the moment so we have to send mail separately anyway
[09:40] <sistpoty> ah... ok
=== AlinuxOS [n=Ubuntu@d83-176-124-114.cust.tele2.it]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[09:43] <Kamion> ogra_: so I don't understand why ubuntu-artwork-screensaver was split out
[09:44] <Kamion> ogra_: it's just one more file, it's still Architecture: all, and it has no extra dependencies (only a Recommends)
[09:44] <Kamion> can you explain it to me please?
[09:45] <fabbione> night everybody
[09:45] <ogra_> Kamion, it will be used as a build dep for xscreensaver, xscreensaver checks for the existence of the directory (i dont like to build depend on the whole of ubuntu-artwork) ...
[09:46] <ogra_> additionally it might get updates of the backgrounds collection.... 
[09:47] <ogra_> it will hold more than the one file in the future and might get a very bog download ...
[09:47] <ogra_> *big
[09:47] <ogra_> s/get/become/
[09:47] <Kamion> is it to go on the CD?
[09:48] <ogra_> i think so, yes
[09:48] <ogra_> i doubt it will be really huge this release, but it might grow in the future ... 
[09:48] <elmo> Kinnison: ping?
[09:49] <elmo> err -ping, nm
[09:49] <sivang> OMG, has anyone see that? http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/cancomical-lynchpad 
[09:49] <sivang> :)
[09:49] <tseng> yes, hours ago
[09:49] <Kamion> ogra_: if it gets much bigger than the current size, that's going to be a serious problem
=== mae [n=mae@F00847Oasis-00e0b857b31a.dhcp.csub.edu]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[09:49] <Kamion> it's currently a 2MB .png which compresses not at all
[09:50] <mae> where can i get old debs?
[09:50] <mae> for dapper
[09:50] <mae> that aren't in the cu rrent repo
[09:50] <ogra_> Kamion, will fix that ... 
[09:50] <Kamion> ogra_: also, why a build-dep for xscreensaver? are you planning to copy it into xscreensaver-* packages at build time?
[09:50] <tseng> mae: you really dont.
[09:50] <mae> tseng: eh?
[09:50] <Kamion> 'cos that seems kind of wrong
[09:51] <tseng> mae: if its not in the repo, its gone
[09:51] <mae> ic.
[09:51] <ogra_> Kamion, nope, but xscreencaver fails to include the directory if its nonexistent at build time
[09:51] <Kamion> ogra_: probably better to just clobber its build system to override that
[09:51] <ogra_> and it checks the hosts system, not the chroot 
[09:51] <Kamion> if you're going to build-depend just for the sake of test -d returning true ...
[09:52] <Kamion> or just stick the relevant directory in debian/whatever.dirs
[09:52] <Kamion> ogra_: was the image meant to be much more compressible, then?
[09:53] <dholbach> can we get ubuntu-{media,legal,usability}@lists.ubuntu.com and additionally start moving desktop stuff to ubuntu-desktop@?
[09:53] <ogra_> it was planned to go away as soon as i have something else
=== jdub spanks dholbach 
[09:53] <dholbach> jdub: what's wrong?
[09:53] <jdub> dholbach: btw, if i have a say, there will never be such a thing as 'ubuntu-legal'
[09:54] <dholbach> jdub: i don't like it much either. I just had a look at the devel list and tried to separate one stuff from the other
[09:55] <jdub> yeah
[09:55] <ogra_> Kamion, i'm sure it can be smaller ... since its purpose is to get cut in pieces, distorted and to bear other tortures :)
[09:55] <ogra_> you will nearly never see it clearly ...
=== AlinuxOS [n=Ubuntu@d83-176-124-114.cust.tele2.it]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[09:59] <Kamion> Riddell: um, when I try merging your branch, it removes and re-adds espresso/frontend/gtkui.py
[10:00] <Kamion> that seems a tad unfriendly :)
[10:00] <Kamion> Riddell: can you move liveinstaller.ui to a subdirectory?
[10:00] <ploum> dholbach: a first good sort would be ubuntu-trolls@lists.ubuntu.com
=== LaserJock runs to subscribe ;-)
[10:01] <ploum> just to move all that "gstreamer doesn't play my WMV", "reply-to field must be set in the list", "epiphany is better than firefox"
[10:01] <mdke> dholbach, jdub, i just assumed all you real developers were using a private mailing list and -devel had just become for noise
[10:01] <Kamion> Riddell: (I understand it's not ready to merge yet, it's just the easiest way to look at the differences)
[10:02] <dholbach> mdke: *cry*
[10:02] <mdke> *grin*
[10:04] <mdke> dholbach, the -desktop list is not safe either :)
=== mdke urges everyone to use the -doc list
[10:04] <ploum> "you are not fun anymore"
=== ploum dressed as a knight, slaps mdke with a chicken
[10:05] <dholbach> mdke: not at all
[10:05] <tseng> you could all stop reading the mailing lists
[10:05] <tseng> it works great for me.
[10:06] <LaserJock> tseng: I think it is some sort of "Pavlov's Dogs" experiment where we are wading through all the muck to find a "treat" here or there.
[10:06] <sistpoty> yeah... I used to sort them into appropriate folders in the past instead of reading... now I found out that filters can do that, so I only need to mark them read ;)
[10:06] <ploum> filtering on "codecs, legal, patents, multimedia" just remove half of the devel-list without any problem
[10:07] <LaserJock> the problem for me is that I care about the issue, just not all the noise :(
[10:08] <ploum> In fact, most people are just writing what they believe, without thinking nor reading answers
[10:08] <janimo> hmm is apt-get installing packages in Recommends somehow?
[10:08] <Riddell> Kamion: yeah, bzr got the better of me and I deleted and added gtkui.py, can't even remember why now.  that gtkui.py is full of debugging lines
[10:09] <Burgwork> mdke, there is no ubuntu-private
[10:09] <Riddell> Kamion: moving liveinstaller.ui to a subdirectory was on my todo for when everything else works 
[10:09] <Mithrandir> Riddell: you do know about bzr revert?
[10:09] <LaserJock> janimo: aptitude does by default. sure your using apt-get?
[10:09] <Riddell> Mithrandir: nope :)  but I should learn it
=== zee606 [n=d84465f1@zeebrothers.net]  has left #ubuntu-devel [] 
[10:10] <Mithrandir> Riddell: "uncommit" is also handy when you've committed something you shouldn't have
[10:10] <ploum> Is the  "Add to panel" dialog customized for Ubuntu or from standard GNOME ?
[10:10] <ploum> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331768 : this bug look more like an Ubuntu one
[10:10] <Ubugtu> gnome2 bug 331768 in Panel "gnome panel crash" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  
[10:10] <seb128> ploum: Ubuntu
[10:11] <seb128> ploum: a debug backtrace is required for it
[10:11] <ploum> seb128: have you xchat configured to beep every time someone say "bug" ?
[10:11] <ploum> seb128: ok, I will ask him the backtrace
[10:12] <seb128> no, but I tend to read ubuntu chans :p
[10:12] <seb128> gnome-panel-dbg libglib2.0-0-dbg
[10:14] <ploum> seb128: are they on http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/hoary_dbgdebs/ ?
[10:15] <seb128> no, -dbg are standard packages, synaptic or apt-get them
[10:15] <ploum> cool ! 
=== olemke [n=olemke@p54897A37.dip.t-dialin.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:15] <ploum> I didn't know about them...
[10:15] <seb128> the packages I put on my people package have no -dbg to the name
[10:16] <janimo> Laserjock, sure apt-get.thanks
[10:16] <janimo> I have to see why does gnome-session get installed by xubuntu-deskto
[10:16] <janimo> p
[10:17] <seb128> because GNOME is good? :)
[10:17] <ploum> There is only one Desktop and seb128 is his packager !
[10:17] <ploum> (and jdub is his prophet )
[10:18] <ploum> Well, I usually say :
[10:18] <ploum> There is only one distribution and Mark is his prophet
[10:18] <sivang> amen to that :)
[10:20] <ploum> And then I show picture from old and new jdub : "See ! Our prophet is now hairless ! He's pure ! He will show us the way to the Nirvana ! Come my brother in our world of peace !"
[10:20] <ploum> And eventually they keep Windows...
=== antoine-c [n=antoine-@251-152.245.81.adsl.skynet.be]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== antoine-c [n=antoine-@251-152.245.81.adsl.skynet.be]  has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] 
=== Gloubi_Aw is now known as Gloubiboulga
[10:27] <Panzerboy> hey all
=== stockholm [n=andi@petrus.schuldei.org]  has left #ubuntu-devel [] 
[10:28] <Panzerboy> i cannot install beagle in dapper, the error message i get is  beagle: Depends: libgalago-cil (>= 0.3.2) but it is not going to be installed
[10:29] <Panzerboy> can this be a bug?
[10:29] <Panzerboy> ;)
[10:29] <Burgwork> Panzerboy, likely, please file
[10:30] <ploum> Panzerboy: I don't have this bug anymore
[10:30] <ploum> I can install beagle now
[10:30] <ploum> I had it for a long time
[10:30] <ploum> seb128: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331768   tes dsirs sont des ordres ;-)
[10:30] <Ubugtu> gnome2 bug 331768 in Panel "gnome panel crash" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  
[10:31] <seb128> ploum: merci :))
[10:31] <Panzerboy> ploum: hmmm ...
[10:33] <Panzerboy> ploum: any idea how did u solve it? :D
[10:33] <ploum> Panzerboy: apt-get install beagle just now...
[10:33] <Pygi> what version of liboil is included in dapper?
[10:33] <Panzerboy> ploum: hmmm ... let me try to update
[10:33] <ploum> Panzerboy: what is said when you apt-get install libgalago-cil ?
[10:34] <Panzerboy> ploum: 1 sec ...
[10:35] <Panzerboy> ploum: The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[10:35] <Panzerboy>   libgalago-cil: Depends: libgalago1 (>= 0.3.2) but it is not going to be installed
[10:35] <Kamion> libgalago1 | 0.3.3-2ubuntu2 | dapper/universe | amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[10:35] <ploum> Panzerboy: and what is the problem with this one ?
[10:35] <ploum> try : apt-get install  libgalago1
[10:36] <Kamion> you sure your packaging system isn't confused? apt gets a bit muddled sometimes - try 'apt-get -f install'
[10:36] <Panzerboy> Kamion: right, trying now
[10:37] <ploum> apt-get is not a cartesian software. You must use your intuition rather than your intelligence
[10:37] <ploum> that's perhaps why I like it
[10:37] <Panzerboy> Kamion: that was it, installing libgalago1 now
[10:38] <Panzerboy> aaaaand now beagle :0
[10:38] <Panzerboy> thanks a bunch!
[10:38] <Panzerboy> the problem was that i've interrupted an installation of deskbar-applet before, and that's what probably confused apt
[10:38] <Kamion> yes
[10:42] <florian_kc> bbl
=== poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-97-120.xlate.ufl.edu]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:44] <Pygi> will dapper ship with everything ready *packages* to properly build gst-plugins-base?
[10:45] <ploum> Kamion has a better intuition than mine...
[10:45] <dholbach> Pygi: what do you intend to do?
[10:46] <Pygi> dholbach: well, I need it for development...
=== LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@lambda.chem.unr.edu]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:46] <Pygi> I am currently struggling with compiling all the things I need from source :)
[10:46] <dholbach> if you look at http://packages.ubuntu.com you will see which packages are available
[10:47] <Pygi> hm, will those packages be upgraded by the time we ship?
[10:47] <dholbach> after the release no
[10:48] <Pygi> well, I mean before the release :)
[10:49] <dholbach> we have the newest released version in
[10:49] <Pygi> nop, we don't actually
[10:49] <Pygi> if I am not mistaken, liboil in repos is 0.3.6-1, and newest is 0.3.7
[10:50] <Pygi> yup, me is correct :)
[10:50] <dholbach> i thought you were talking about gstreamer
[10:50] <dholbach> if you have good reasons for stuff to be updated, you should file a bug report
[10:51] <dholbach> because we're in upstream version freeze now
=== seth_ [n=seth@ubuntu/member/seth]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:51] <Pygi> yes, I do understand that...
[10:51] <Pygi> ah, guess I should have reported that earlier..
[10:51] <Pygi> nvm then, thanks for help
[10:52] <dholbach> It it's important and has fixes, it's great if you let us know.
=== seth [n=seth@ubuntu/member/seth]  has left #ubuntu-devel ["With] 
=== HiddenWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.179.dynamic.phpg.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[10:58] <Pygi> just noticed that oggdemux,oggmux, theoradec,theoraenc, vorbisdec, xvimagesink,and entire gst-plugins-base is missing :-/
=== heno [n=henrik@henrik.gotadsl.co.uk]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:04] <Pygi> dholbach: If I am not mistaken, gstreamer depends on liboil...altought it can be compiled with the version that is provided with dapper, 0.3.7 is suggested one
[11:05] <dholbach> yeah, i know it's built with it
[11:05] <dholbach> seb128: you read that about liboil? maybe it fixes the strange liboil bug we have
[11:06] <seb128> maybe
[11:06] <seb128> worth trying :)
[11:06] <Pygi> dholbach, seb: what's the bug?
[11:06] <seb128> Pygi: from where?
[11:06] <Pygi> seb128: http://liboil.freedesktop.org/wiki/
[11:07] <dholbach> Pygi: bug 5861
[11:07] <Ubugtu> malone bug 5861 in liboil "Error message shown during installation of gst plugins by apt-get" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5861
[11:07] <seb128> Pygi: I was asking about "oggdemux,oggmux, theoradec,theoraenc, vorbisdec, xvimagesink,and entire gst-plugins-base is missing"
[11:07] <Pygi> seb128: well, from the dapper repos
[11:08] <seb128> gstreamer0.10-x: /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstxvimagesink.so
[11:08] <seb128> by example
[11:08] <Pygi> dholbach: well, when we don't have all dependencies...and don't know how the package was built...
[11:08] <dholbach> Pygi: apt-cache show <package> will show you dependencies
[11:09] <Pygi> dholbach: yup, i know
[11:09] <dholbach> Pygi: and packages wouldn't build if they didn't have sufficient build dependencies
=== odeez [n=zeedo@reboot-robot.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:09] <dholbach> seb128: freedesktop bug 5406
[11:10] <Ubugtu> freedesktop bug 5406 in unknown "function fbCompositeSolid_nx8888mmx in class composite_over_argb_const_src failed check" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5406
[11:10] <Pygi> dholbach: actually, packages like gst-plugins-base can be built without some dependencies
[11:10] <dholbach> seb128: might be worth the update
[11:10] <dholbach> seb128: want me to look?
[11:10] <herzi> ogra_: ping
[11:10] <dholbach> seb128: although... that's a gst0.8 problem... hm
[11:10] <ogra_> herzi, pong
[11:11] <herzi> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gartoon/+bug/30147 is still broken
[11:11] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30147 in gartoon "gnome-icon-theme-gartoon has got the wrong GTK_STOCK_GOTO_FIRST icon" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[11:11] <Pygi> dholbach: hopefully I haven't created too much trouble by mentioning this...if everything works fine, no need to update liboil
[11:11] <dholbach> Pygi: i'll check the changelog
[11:12] <seb128> dholbach: if you want, I don't know that code enough to have an opinion
[11:14] <Pygi> dholbach k, thanks
=== Kyral [n=kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Aegir [n=richard@d58-104-19-27.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jinty [n=jinty@196-28-44-141.jhb.netdial.co.za]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mpt_ [n=mpt@222-154-154-42.jetstream.xtra.co.nz]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:19] <ogra_> herzi, the funny thing about that bug is that its only a filename error :) gtk-goto-first-ltr contains the rtl image and -rtl contains ltr :)
=== rjune [n=rjune@oh-67-76-200-198.sta.sprint-hsd.net]  has left #ubuntu-devel ["Konversation] 
=== lakin [n=lakin@dsl-hill-66-18-228-60-cgy.nucleus.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zeedo [n=zeedo@80-192-53-14.stb.ubr04.glen.blueyonder.co.uk]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== moyogo [n=moyogo@145.120.1.215]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== blueyed [n=daniel@pdpc/supporter/active/blueyed]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== decko_ [n=decko@201-27-71-21.dsl.telesp.net.br]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ompaul [n=ompaul@194.125.86.92]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== SEJeff [n=SEJeff@12-211-125-247.client.insightbb.com]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== blueyed [n=daniel@pdpc/supporter/active/blueyed]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-97-120.xlate.ufl.edu]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mrzero [n=ole@orwen.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:52] <mrzero> fabbione: do you run a self modified version of irclog2html ?
=== janimo [n=jani@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro]  has left #ubuntu-devel [] 
=== Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-206-191-39-247.d-ip.magma.ca]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ptlo [n=senko@83-131-65-152.adsl.net.t-com.hr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:56] <dholbach>  Good night!
[11:57] <pitti> night dholbach 
[11:58] <dholbach> night pitti
[11:59] <Pygi> night
[11:59] <dholbach> Pygi: checked it, looks good, filed an upstream version freeze exception report
[12:01] <dholbach> Pygi: bye Pygi
[12:01] <Pygi> k, thanks
=== Pygi [n=mario@83-131-251-197.adsl.net.t-com.hr]  has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] 
[12:01] <tseng> ogra_: going to guadec?
=== xerox_ [n=paolo@adsl-175-171.37-151.net24.it]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[12:02] <ogra_> tseng, barcelona ? i think so ...
[12:02] <tseng> ogra_: ok
[12:02] <tseng> ogra_: im looking into it
[12:03] <ogra_> cool :)