=== MotherLUG [n=karin@29.124.233.220.exetel.com.au] has left #edubuntu ["Leaving"] [01:21] ogra_: ping?? [01:22] jinty, pong [01:23] i'm seeing doko is syncing zope stuff like mad :) [01:23] ok, then no need to tell you! [01:24] but i guess it sits in NEW for a while, doesnt it ? [01:27] should only be maximum a day. there were no package name changes [01:32] ok === ogra_ hopes the best :) [01:34] yay [01:35] got the sync request mail from doko :)) === dsaa|zzzzzzzz [n=dsaa@210.213.81.125] has joined #edubuntu === mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #edubuntu === pitux [n=pitux@127-240-90.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #edubuntu === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #edubuntu === TOZTWO [i=TOZTWO@dialup-4.253.30.123.Dial1.Dallas1.Level3.net] has joined #edubuntu [03:27] mhz: ping? [03:27] jsgotangco: pong, just sitting at the computer ;) [03:27] I have not checked anything [03:27] cool [03:27] :) [03:27] but I am willing to do some work with you [03:28] i only posted the first part [03:28] url? [03:28] ok can you do your work for me at the moment here at the office while i focus on our quickguide? :) [03:29] mhz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuQuickguide/IntroductionToEdubuntu [03:32] wait let me edit some stuff [03:33] okis [03:39] mhz: you can check now [03:40] same url? [03:40] yeah === zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #edubuntu [03:48] mhz: if you're free, can you start with TheEdubuntuApplications [03:48] you can just make a tree of the Edubuntu-specific desktop apps [03:54] jsgotangco: a tree? [03:54] mhz: just a listing will do [03:55] Edubuntu specific = Math, Language, Art ? [03:55] etc? [03:55] Age group, take your pick [03:56] i don't think primary schoolers will dig Kalzium [03:56] while those in high school will puke at gcompris [03:56] :D [03:59] jsgotangco: okis === TOZII [i=TOZTWO@dialup-4.226.234.158.Dial1.Dallas1.Level3.net] has joined #edubuntu === irvin [n=irvin@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #edubuntu === irvin_ [n=irvin@203.213.221.25] has joined #edubuntu === irvin [n=irvin@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #edubuntu === TOZTWO [i=TOZTWO@dialup-4.253.71.228.Dial1.Dallas1.Level3.net] has joined #edubuntu === irvin_ [n=irvin@203.213.221.25] has joined #edubuntu [05:26] ogra_: hmm i think blender is broken === P3L|C4N0 [n=gcamposm@201.230.134.119] has joined #edubuntu === dieKleineMaus1 [n=dieKlein@p54928F0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #edubuntu [07:01] hi [07:01] somewhere on? === dieKleineMaus1 [n=dieKlein@p54928F0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #edubuntu ["...] === zakame [n=zak@210.1.88.225] has joined #edubuntu === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #edubuntu === mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage] by ChanServ === gloin [i=me@pdpc/supporter/student/gloin] has joined #edubuntu [08:14] ping #edubuntu =] [08:15] * pong [08:19] :D [08:21] ergh! [08:21] so has anyone figured out how to get dhcp3-server working with the ltsp-suggested config? [08:21] no matter what I try, it always barfs due to "no subnet declaration" [08:24] this is stinky [08:24] I'd rather go back to older dhcp server [08:24] but any attempt to move this direction causes an uninstall of edubuntu-server and ltsp-server-standalone [08:50] ogra_: awake? === zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #edubuntu [09:01] gloin: that is OK [09:01] you can uninstal ltsp-server-standalone [09:03] gloin: http://pastebin.com/568214 [09:04] eh, I figured it out [09:04] gloin: this is my /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf [09:04] for some oddball reason, ubuntu wants to use the dhcpd.conf in /etc/ltsp/ instead of the normal place [09:04] which threw me for about an hour and a half =[ [09:04] gloin: yes, thats the ltsp standalone package [09:05] ahh [09:05] what's standalone provide? [09:05] if you remove ltsp-server-standalone you can use the normal dhcp3-server [09:05] eh, I just symlinked the real dhcpd.conf to /etc/ltsp/ [09:05] what does standalone provide? [09:05] gloin: standalone provides a dhcpserver so you don't have to setup a dhcpserver [09:06] oh, heh [09:06] just to keep things amusing, I'm also using the parallel dhcp server recipe [09:06] which I've done before with success === pips1 [n=philipp@hsz-hgkz.isz.ch] has joined #edubuntu [09:09] hi pips1 [09:11] hi lucasvo [09:11] hi pips1 [09:11] hi === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #edubuntu [09:48] this is odd [09:48] I've got the client booting [09:48] but it says "tftp error 1 (file not found) [09:48] I'm quite sure the file is in the path the error specifies === zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #edubuntu === gloin is failing to understand why this error occurs, and syslog isn't showing anything [09:51] gloin: which version of PXE is the client running? on some of the 0.99 versions and older, you'll find that a lot [09:52] highvoltage: it's not pxe [09:52] etherboot [09:52] ok [09:53] http://pastebin.com/568235 [09:53] that's my dhcp config [09:54] error says "Loading 192.168.1.1:/tftpboot/lts/vmlinuz-2.6.9-ltsp-3 .TFTP error 1 (File not found) [09:55] syslog just shows the dhcp reqs and acks [09:58] any notion? [09:58] did you put that line in? [09:58] which line? [09:58] the /tftpboot/lts part doesn't seem right [09:58] although i don't have a machine with me to confirm [09:59] but from memory, that should usually be lts/vmlinuz/... [09:59] are you asking about the error or the line from the pastebin? [09:59] i was refering to the line in your dhcp config [09:59] that you just mentioned :) [09:59] k [10:00] see, your tftp server normally has /tftpboot or /var/lib/tftpboot as your root [10:00] ahh [10:00] and then you specify the path to your kernel relevant from your root in your dhcpd file [10:00] http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/DHCP [10:00] was going from that [10:01] yeah, that was it [10:01] client is booted! [10:01] :) [10:02] I'll submit the change to jammcq [10:02] was it like that by default? [10:02] no [10:02] ok [10:02] I did ltspcfg and it did it correctly [10:02] but I've got some other configs to make (as you can see) so I did a lot of editing [10:03] but almost all the wiki pages are incorrect [10:03] wrt path === gloin fixes a wiki page and alerts jammcq === DeeJay1 [i=deejay1@cg118.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #edubuntu [10:13] I'm kind of wondering why all those hosts entries are filled in === gloin [i=me@pdpc/supporter/student/gloin] has joined #edubuntu [10:23] wrt path? [10:23] yeah [10:23] with regard to [10:24] i see nothing wrong there [10:24] the old version of the dhcp page at ltsp.org prepends "/tftpboot" [10:24] in the ltsp link [10:24] I changed it a few minutes ago [10:25] now I've got a problem where the client won't write to syslog, which is causing x to crash [10:26] are you using the ubuntu ltsp or the ltsp from ltsp.org? [10:26] ubuntu ltsp [10:26] you realise those two have different paths for everything [10:26] for most things at least [10:26] o rly? [10:27] for example tftpboot location [10:27] I already fought through the dhcp config foolery [10:27] ubuntu ltsp and ltsp.org are two different implementations completely [10:27] en pxelinux.0 path etc. [10:27] ahh ok [10:27] although ogra and jmcq are working together to make sure that a lot of the things stay the same [10:27] yeh [10:27] cool [10:27] ok [10:27] gentoo's and debian's ltsp is also different from ltsp.org [10:28] syslogd is failing [10:28] dapper or breezy? [10:28] breezy === spacey doesn't have any breezy thinclients at hand [10:28] so whats the error?:P [10:29] good question [10:29] xauth: error in locking authority etc [10:29] login to the client and see [10:29] that's from the client [10:30] ldm starts? === gloin_ [n=me@pdpc/supporter/student/gloin] has joined #edubuntu [10:31] ldm? [10:31] I have a shell, if that's what you're asking [10:31] on the client [10:32] I'm horribly lagged on my vps [10:32] anyhow [10:32] uhm [10:32] do you have ubuntu-version in /etc? [10:32] no [10:33] testing/unstable [10:33] debian_version (END) [10:33] you got ldm in /etc/init.d ? [10:33] no [10:34] nor am I finding anything named that in apt-cache [10:34] your logged in to the client itself right? [10:35] both [10:35] any interesting in /var/log ? [10:35] I've got a shell running on the client, and I'm logged into the server [10:35] nothing in either [10:35] but [10:35] on the server [10:36] root@trance:/etc# /etc/init.d/sysklogd start * Starting system log daemon... [fail] [10:36] syslogd on the server is not related with the thinclient [10:36] oh nevermind anyhow [10:36] duh [10:36] it needed restarting [10:36] here's the error on the client when trying to startx [10:36] repeated several times: [10:37] xauth: error in locking authority file //.Xauthority [10:37] preceded by [10:37] xauth: error in locking authority file //.serverauth.989 [10:37] then [10:37] Fatal server error: [10:37] Cannot open log file "/var/log/Xorg.0.log" === gloin_ shrugs [10:38] which log file does it show up? [10:39] it doesn't [10:39] is echoed to the shell [10:39] ah [10:39] any other logs in /var/log? [10:39] a few [10:39] mostly empty [10:39] some of them are obvious carryovers from the main OS [10:40] like bootstrap.log [10:40] etc [10:40] ldm.log ? [10:40] I already said [10:40] there is no ldm here [10:40] afaik the breezy thinclient should have ldm [10:40] because it logs in with ssh [10:40] over ssh === gloin_ checks on the client [10:41] nope [10:41] no ldm on the client, no ldm on the server [10:41] no ldm, period [10:41] should only be on the client [10:41] I see it in ltsppath/usr/sbin [10:42] but there's no ldm log [10:42] i don't use the breezy ltsp currently [10:42] ergh [10:42] so can't look up much [10:42] what are you using? [10:42] dapper? [10:43] I've no great objection to %s on sources.list and doing a dist-upgrade [10:43] if there's a chance it could help [10:43] the old fashioned one, the breezy/dapper thinclient was not mature enough in our case. but it should work [10:44] I don't understand [10:44] ask ogra [10:44] when he's here [10:44] sigh [10:44] ok [10:44] he should be able to help you out [10:44] allright [10:44] this dang server [10:44] heh [10:44] It was supposed to be working last week [10:44] for state online testing [10:44] I've been dragging it home and working on it at night, trying to get it together [10:45] and ending up at 1:45 in the morning going "argh!" [10:45] like now [10:45] i didn't have that much problems with it :p [10:45] yeah [10:45] did you follow the installnotes on the edubuntu wiki [10:46] I did an LTSP deployment a couple years ago on SuSE and it went like a dream [10:46] no [10:46] I probably should have, eh? === gloin_ looks [10:46] i guess so [10:46] maybe you did some things different [10:47] https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes === DeeJay1 got LTSP working in breezy from scratch [10:47] I'm looking here [10:47] DeeJay1: i assume that would be ltsp.org then? [10:48] s/breezy/edubuntu breezy [10:48] ugh [10:48] these instructions [10:48] gksudo "gedit /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf" === gloin_ gouges out his eyes [10:49] su -; vim /etc blah blah [10:49] highvoltage: but I still have some issues with adding new users to the system, no idea why [10:49] what happens? [10:49] DeeJay1: that has nothing to do with the thinclients at least:) [10:50] spacey: yes, but it was annoying the last time I did it.. [10:51] highvoltage: when using normal useradd -m foo and then passwd foo the users actually don't show up in sabayon and they can't log in on the clients AFAIR === spacey uses ldap backend === gloin_ is of the growing opinion that ubuntu's ltsp is not ready for primetime [10:52] gloin_: why not? it does work [10:52] I don't know [10:52] I'm fighting pretty hard with it [10:52] gloin_: the older ubuntu ltsp wasn't that greight. ogra has put in a hude amount of work into it, and the newer one is certainly much better already [10:53] and some of the stuff that I'm having to contend with is just plain goofy imo... like the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf issue for starters [10:53] I spent a good deal of time on that issue alone [10:53] which was, well, goofy! [10:54] ltsp.org was better than the last release because it booted faster, it had better support (even though still sucky) for local devices, it supports swapping over the network, it has more options for lts.conf, etc [10:54] gloin_: hmm, when you think that that is goofy then try to set up pxebooting on a different machine than the ltsp server :) [10:54] DeeJay1: no doubt. [10:54] I've got more than enough fun going on just dealing with parallel dhcp servers [10:54] ubuntu's ltsp is better from a design perspective, and is only starting to get to a more mature level now. [10:54] DeeJay1: thats quite easy [10:55] hm ow wait, we just have the dhcp server on a different machine [10:55] highvoltage: I kind of agree. I'm going to need local devices (at least one printer) and probably sound. On the other hand, if the design philosophy is better, that's great - down the road. [10:55] spacey: I know, I've had such a setup at home [10:55] but I needed this box going last week =] [10:55] gloin well you can install the classic ltsp [10:56] we had that going in half an hour or so [10:56] including coffee [10:56] heh [10:56] really? [10:56] at least no problems [10:56] :) [10:56] but its not upgrade friendly [10:57] probably needs extra attention when you upgrade to dapper [10:57] k [10:57] not sure though :p [10:57] didn't try === gloin_ has the vanilla ltsp tarball on his server here [10:57] all the ltsp tools are packaged in universe [10:58] hmm [10:58] what's edubuntu-server provide? [10:59] ? [10:59] it's wanting to come off with the standalone package [10:59] its a metapackage [10:59] k [10:59] so [10:59] ok [10:59] time for breakfast [10:59] I'm wondering if I want to delete /opt/ltsp and use the ltsp.org stuff instead or can I get away with leaving it? [11:00] breakfast?! [11:00] 2am here, mate [11:00] 11am here ;p [11:00] gloin you can always tar it as a backup [11:01] traditional ltsp has the same path [11:01] yeha [11:01] yeah* [11:01] and then clear out /tftpboot [11:01] hmm [11:02] lag seems to have disappeared. good. [11:04] anyhow [11:04] I still don't grasp the ubuntu aversion to root [11:04] even though I use ubuntu =] === gloin just sets root up anyhow [11:05] gloin: nothing stops you from doing that. using sudo is just more secure [11:05] heh [11:05] not really [11:05] yes, really! [11:05] I tend to use a marginally-strong (non-dictionary) password for my user account [11:05] and root gets something much, much tougher [11:06] gloin: i've seen many teachers at schools forgetting a root terminal open [11:06] that's why I don't give root out === ealden [n=ealden@203.76.213.159] has joined #edubuntu [11:06] teachers at work don't have admin to their windows boxes either [11:06] gloin, did you ever maintain a sever that had ssh running *and* was connected to the internet 24h ? [11:06] gloin: if they forget a sudo accounts terminal open, and use sudo, then if a kid comes an hour later to fiddle, there's not much he can do === signifer123 [n=michael@pool-141-157-88-80.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #edubuntu [11:06] ogra_: hi =] [11:06] and yes, I do [11:06] disable remote root logon and require su - [11:06] gloin, and did you ever read its logs ? [11:07] and install fail2ban =] [11:07] ogra_: you get scared by failed attempts? === TOZII [i=TOZTWO@dialup-4.227.14.170.Dial1.Dallas1.Level3.net] has joined #edubuntu [11:07] yes, I do read the logs [11:07] my logs are full === gloin runs about a dozen servers [11:07] but i don't care [11:07] mostly all automated attacks assume there is a root user you can log in with [11:07] yep [11:07] so [11:07] simple config change in sshd.conf [11:08] no remote root logon [11:08] anyhow [11:08] and why not grab the evil by its roots ? instead of healing the symptom ? [11:08] 2 reasons [11:08] 1: users don't like to use really long passwords, nor particularly strong ones [11:08] gloin: one can always use sudo bash like I do :P [11:09] or sudo -s [11:09] ogra_: i have a feature request :) [11:09] 2: when I see stuff like "type the following command: gksudo "gedit /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf"" I want to gouge out my eyes [11:09] su - [11:09] highvoltage, haha... its feature freeze today :) [11:09] password [11:09] or sudo -i [11:09] then all of a sudden you get tab-completion [11:09] for /sbin [11:10] ogra_: i know, it's a very small one. you know that gnome plugin that gives you "Open Terminal" from the desktop? any chance that we can have that? [11:10] that's the other frustrating thing about having to sudo everything [11:10] gloin, the advantage of the above is that you only need to cut n paste it to a alt-f2 dialog ;) [11:10] ogra_: it just makes telephonic support so much easier [11:10] sudo no-more-tab-completion-for-you [11:10] hehe [11:10] but gedit?! [11:10] highvoltage: nautilus terminal [11:10] or something [11:11] its packaged [11:11] gloin, you can enable tab completion for sudo ... [11:11] nautilus-open-terminal [11:11] yup [11:11] got to run, got some MS Word files to format for printing grrrrrrrrr [11:11] highvoltage, i'll look what i can do [11:11] thats what you mean right [11:11] ogra_: thanks! [11:11] highvoltage, but no promises ... [11:12] ogra_: but enabling that makes /sbin browseable by unprivileged users. Not so good. [11:12] I'd rather root be root [11:12] gloin: that doesn't matter [11:12] then it's really clear when you're running as a privileged user. [11:12] they can get there anyway [11:13] ogra_: it's ok. even if it makes the next version i'll be happy. [11:13] highvoltage: its already there right?or are you talking about something else [11:14] spacey, not preinstalled [11:14] hmm [11:14] do you really want to preinstall such a thing? [11:14] i think they removed it by default for a reason [11:14] especially in edubuntu [11:14] my feature request would be a edukubuntu iso [11:14] the kids don't need that [11:14] gloin, feel free to make one [11:15] ogra_: k [11:15] might be fun [11:15] spacey: it's not installed by default [11:15] so? [11:15] so strip out gdm, setup kdm, get rid of anything gnome not neccessary for gtk apps, and bundle it, right? [11:15] spacey: for the educators it's real handy, if they need it fast [11:15] gloin, not really ... [11:15] kde kiosk API is essential [11:15] not the educators i know [11:15] spacey: and i have a big bunch of documentation that refers to "right click on your desktop, and..." === ogra_ wishes his job was this easy [11:16] and most of the users are kids [11:16] and they don't need that [11:16] true. would it hurt them to have it there though? [11:16] gloin, i'm planning a kiosk mode for ltsp for the next release (in fact something basic is already there) [11:16] well i don't think more then 4% of the targeted end users would use it [11:17] and application -> accessoires is not that hard [11:17] so you can get around running expensive desktop environments if you only want one app on the clients [11:17] ogra_: cool. Using Kiosk? I know gnome is trying to catch up with that featureset, so it would be nice to not have to reinvent the wheel [11:17] anyway i don't really care:) but i expect they already thought about it and decided to leave it out [11:17] spacey: i promise you, explaining to someone who speaks another language to open it at applicatoin -> accessories is very hard [11:17] gloin, gnome is already up to date since 2 releases ... look at sabayon [11:17] or do you consider gnome to be an expensive de [11:18] I've looked at sabayon [11:18] spacey: telling someone to right click on their background picture and clicking on open terminal is easier, i promise you :) [11:18] it's about 2 years behind [11:18] yes ofcourse [11:18] it is [11:18] gloin, on a kiosk system (that only should run a browser for example) i consider blackbox a expensive de [11:18] you can put sabayon in ldap [11:18] thats nice [11:18] ogra_: sure, for that =] [11:19] I use Kiosk API for desktop clients [11:19] so people who auth in the students OU get a very locked-down desktop [11:19] thats what sabayon is for in gnome [11:19] people in the staff OU get a different desktop [11:19] etc [11:19] you can make different user profiles and assign it to users [11:19]