[01:21] <jinty> ogra_: ping??
[01:22] <ogra_> jinty, pong
[01:23] <ogra_> i'm seeing doko is syncing zope stuff like mad :)
[01:23] <jinty> ok, then no need to tell you!
[01:24] <ogra_> but i guess it sits in NEW for a while, doesnt it ? 
[01:27] <jinty> should only be maximum a day. there were no package name changes
[01:32] <ogra_> ok
[01:34] <ogra_> yay
[01:35] <ogra_> got the sync request mail from doko :))
[03:27] <jsgotangco> mhz: ping?
[03:27] <mhz> jsgotangco: pong, just sitting at the computer ;)
[03:27] <mhz> I have not checked anything
[03:27] <jsgotangco> cool
[03:27] <jsgotangco> :)
[03:27] <mhz> but I am willing to do some work with you
[03:28] <jsgotangco> i only posted the first part
[03:28] <mhz> url?
[03:28] <jsgotangco> ok can you do your work for me at the moment here at the office while i focus on our quickguide? :)
[03:29] <jsgotangco> mhz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuQuickguide/IntroductionToEdubuntu
[03:32] <jsgotangco> wait let me edit some stuff
[03:33] <mhz> okis
[03:39] <jsgotangco> mhz: you can check now
[03:40] <mhz> same url?
[03:40] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:48] <jsgotangco> mhz: if you're free, can you start with TheEdubuntuApplications
[03:48] <jsgotangco> you can just make a tree of the Edubuntu-specific desktop apps
[03:54] <mhz> jsgotangco: a tree?
[03:54] <jsgotangco> mhz: just a listing will do
[03:55] <mhz> Edubuntu specific = Math, Language, Art ?
[03:55] <mhz> etc?
[03:55] <jsgotangco> Age group, take your pick
[03:56] <jsgotangco> i don't think primary schoolers will dig Kalzium
[03:56] <jsgotangco> while those in high school will puke at gcompris
[03:56] <jsgotangco> :D
[03:59] <mhz> jsgotangco: okis
[05:26] <jsgotangco> ogra_: hmm i think blender is broken
[07:01] <dieKleineMaus1> hi 
[07:01] <dieKleineMaus1> somewhere on?
[08:14] <gloin> ping #edubuntu =] 
[08:15] <highvoltage> * pong
[08:19] <jsgotangco> :D
[08:21] <gloin> ergh!
[08:21] <gloin> so has anyone figured out how to get dhcp3-server working with the ltsp-suggested config?
[08:21] <gloin> no matter what I try, it always barfs due to "no subnet declaration"
[08:24] <gloin> this is stinky
[08:24] <gloin> I'd rather go back to older dhcp server
[08:24] <gloin> but any attempt to move this direction causes an uninstall of edubuntu-server and ltsp-server-standalone
[08:50] <highvoltage> ogra_: awake?
[09:01] <lucasvo> gloin: that is OK
[09:01] <lucasvo> you can uninstal ltsp-server-standalone
[09:03] <lucasvo> gloin: http://pastebin.com/568214
[09:04] <gloin> eh, I figured it out
[09:04] <lucasvo> gloin: this is my /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf
[09:04] <gloin> for some oddball reason, ubuntu wants to use the dhcpd.conf in /etc/ltsp/ instead of the normal place
[09:04] <gloin> which threw me for about an hour and a half =[
[09:04] <lucasvo> gloin: yes, thats the ltsp standalone package
[09:05] <gloin> ahh
[09:05] <gloin> what's standalone provide?
[09:05] <lucasvo> if you remove ltsp-server-standalone you can use the normal dhcp3-server
[09:05] <gloin> eh, I just symlinked the real dhcpd.conf to /etc/ltsp/
[09:05] <gloin> what does standalone provide?
[09:05] <lucasvo> gloin: standalone provides a dhcpserver so you don't have to setup a dhcpserver
[09:06] <gloin> oh, heh
[09:06] <gloin> just to keep things amusing, I'm also using the parallel dhcp server recipe
[09:06] <gloin> which I've done before with success
[09:09] <lucasvo>  hi pips1 
[09:11] <pips1> hi lucasvo 
[09:11] <highvoltage> hi pips1 
[09:11] <pips1> hi
[09:48] <gloin> this is odd
[09:48] <gloin> I've got the client booting
[09:48] <gloin> but it says "tftp error 1 (file not found)
[09:48] <gloin> I'm quite sure the file is in the path the error specifies
[09:51] <highvoltage> gloin: which version of PXE is the client running? on some of the 0.99 versions and older, you'll find that a lot
[09:52] <gloin> highvoltage: it's not pxe
[09:52] <gloin> etherboot
[09:52] <highvoltage> ok
[09:53] <gloin> http://pastebin.com/568235
[09:53] <gloin> that's my dhcp config
[09:54] <gloin> error says "Loading 192.168.1.1:/tftpboot/lts/vmlinuz-2.6.9-ltsp-3 .TFTP error 1 (File not found)
[09:55] <gloin> syslog just shows the dhcp reqs and acks
[09:58] <gloin> any notion?
[09:58] <highvoltage> did you put that line in?
[09:58] <gloin> which line?
[09:58] <highvoltage> the /tftpboot/lts part doesn't seem right
[09:58] <highvoltage> although i don't have a machine with me to confirm
[09:59] <highvoltage> but from memory, that should usually be lts/vmlinuz/...
[09:59] <gloin> are you asking about the error or the line from the pastebin?
[09:59] <highvoltage> i was refering to the line in your dhcp config
[09:59] <highvoltage> that you just mentioned :)
[09:59] <gloin> k
[10:00] <highvoltage> see, your tftp server normally has /tftpboot or /var/lib/tftpboot as your root
[10:00] <gloin> ahh
[10:00] <highvoltage> and then you specify the path to your kernel relevant from your root in your dhcpd file
[10:00] <gloin> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/DHCP
[10:00] <gloin> was going from that
[10:01] <gloin> yeah, that was it
[10:01] <gloin> client is booted!
[10:01] <highvoltage> :)
[10:02] <gloin> I'll submit the change to jammcq
[10:02] <highvoltage> was it like that by default?
[10:02] <gloin> no
[10:02] <highvoltage> ok
[10:02] <gloin> I did ltspcfg and it did it correctly
[10:02] <gloin> but I've got some other configs to make (as you can see) so I did a lot of editing
[10:03] <gloin> but almost all the wiki pages are incorrect
[10:03] <gloin> wrt path
[10:13] <gloin> I'm kind of wondering why all those hosts entries are filled in
[10:23] <spacey> wrt path?
[10:23] <gloin> yeah
[10:23] <gloin> with regard to
[10:24] <spacey> i see nothing wrong there
[10:24] <gloin> the old version of the dhcp page at ltsp.org prepends "/tftpboot"
[10:24] <spacey> in the ltsp link
[10:24] <gloin> I changed it a few minutes ago
[10:25] <gloin> now I've got a problem where the client won't write to syslog, which is causing x to crash
[10:26] <spacey> are you using the ubuntu ltsp or the ltsp from ltsp.org?
[10:26] <gloin> ubuntu ltsp
[10:26] <spacey> you realise those two have different paths for everything
[10:26] <spacey> for most things at least
[10:26] <gloin> o rly?
[10:27] <spacey> for example tftpboot location
[10:27] <gloin> I already fought through the dhcp config foolery
[10:27] <highvoltage> ubuntu ltsp and ltsp.org are two different implementations completely
[10:27] <spacey> en pxelinux.0 path etc.
[10:27] <gloin> ahh ok
[10:27] <highvoltage> although ogra and jmcq are working together to make sure that a lot of the things stay the same
[10:27] <spacey> yeh
[10:27] <gloin> cool
[10:27] <gloin> ok
[10:27] <highvoltage> gentoo's and debian's ltsp is also different from ltsp.org
[10:28] <gloin> syslogd is failing
[10:28] <spacey> dapper or breezy?
[10:28] <gloin> breezy
[10:28] <spacey> so whats the error?:P
[10:29] <gloin> good question
[10:29] <gloin> xauth: error in locking authority etc
[10:29] <spacey> login to the client and see
[10:29] <gloin> that's from the client
[10:30] <spacey> ldm starts?
[10:31] <gloin> ldm?
[10:31] <gloin> I have a shell, if that's what you're asking
[10:31] <gloin> on the client
[10:32] <gloin_> I'm horribly lagged on my vps
[10:32] <gloin_> anyhow
[10:32] <spacey> uhm
[10:32] <spacey> do you have ubuntu-version in /etc?
[10:32] <gloin_> no
[10:33] <gloin_> testing/unstable
[10:33] <gloin_> debian_version (END)  
[10:33] <spacey> you got ldm in /etc/init.d ?
[10:33] <gloin_> no
[10:34] <gloin_> nor am I finding anything named that in apt-cache
[10:34] <spacey> your logged in to the client itself right?
[10:35] <gloin_> both
[10:35] <spacey> any interesting in /var/log ?
[10:35] <gloin_> I've got a shell running on the client, and I'm logged into the server
[10:35] <gloin_> nothing in either
[10:35] <gloin_> but
[10:35] <gloin_> on the server
[10:36] <gloin_> root@trance:/etc# /etc/init.d/sysklogd start * Starting system log daemon...                                               [fail] 
[10:36] <spacey> syslogd on the server is not related with the thinclient
[10:36] <gloin_> oh nevermind anyhow
[10:36] <gloin_> duh
[10:36] <gloin_> it needed restarting
[10:36] <gloin_> here's the error on the client when trying to startx
[10:36] <gloin_> repeated several times:
[10:37] <gloin_> xauth:  error in locking authority file //.Xauthority
[10:37] <gloin_> preceded by 
[10:37] <gloin_> xauth: error in locking authority file //.serverauth.989
[10:37] <gloin_> then
[10:37] <gloin_> Fatal server error:
[10:37] <gloin_> Cannot open log file "/var/log/Xorg.0.log"
[10:38] <spacey> which log file does it show up?
[10:39] <gloin_> it doesn't
[10:39] <gloin_> is echoed to the shell
[10:39] <spacey> ah
[10:39] <spacey> any other logs in /var/log?
[10:39] <gloin_> a few
[10:39] <gloin_> mostly empty
[10:39] <gloin_> some of them are obvious carryovers from the main OS
[10:40] <gloin_> like bootstrap.log
[10:40] <gloin_> etc
[10:40] <spacey> ldm.log ?
[10:40] <gloin_> I already said
[10:40] <gloin_> there is no ldm here
[10:40] <spacey> afaik the breezy thinclient should have ldm
[10:40] <spacey> because it logs in with ssh
[10:40] <spacey> over ssh
[10:41] <gloin_> nope
[10:41] <gloin_> no ldm on the client, no ldm on the server
[10:41] <gloin_> no ldm, period
[10:41] <spacey> should only be on the client
[10:41] <gloin_> I see it in ltsppath/usr/sbin
[10:42] <gloin_> but there's no ldm log
[10:42] <spacey> i don't use the breezy ltsp currently
[10:42] <gloin_> ergh
[10:42] <spacey> so can't look up much
[10:42] <gloin_> what are you using?
[10:42] <gloin_> dapper?
[10:43] <gloin_> I've no great objection to %s on sources.list and doing a dist-upgrade
[10:43] <gloin_> if there's a chance it could help
[10:43] <spacey> the old fashioned one, the breezy/dapper thinclient was not mature enough in our case. but it should work
[10:44] <gloin_> I don't understand
[10:44] <spacey> ask ogra
[10:44] <spacey> when he's here
[10:44] <gloin_> sigh
[10:44] <gloin_> ok
[10:44] <spacey> he should be able to help you out
[10:44] <gloin_> allright
[10:44] <gloin_> this dang server
[10:44] <gloin_> heh
[10:44] <gloin_> It was supposed to be working last week
[10:44] <gloin_> for state online testing
[10:44] <gloin_> I've been dragging it home and working on it at night, trying to get it together
[10:45] <gloin_> and ending up at 1:45 in the morning going "argh!"
[10:45] <gloin_> like now 
[10:45] <spacey> i didn't have that much problems with it :p
[10:45] <gloin_> yeah
[10:45] <spacey> did you follow the installnotes on the edubuntu wiki
[10:46] <gloin_> I did an LTSP deployment a couple years ago on SuSE and it went like a dream
[10:46] <gloin_> no
[10:46] <gloin_> I probably should have, eh?
[10:46] <spacey> i guess so
[10:46] <spacey> maybe you did some things different
[10:47] <spacey> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
[10:47] <gloin_> I'm looking here
[10:47] <highvoltage> DeeJay1: i assume that would be ltsp.org then?
[10:48] <DeeJay1> s/breezy/edubuntu breezy
[10:48] <gloin_> ugh
[10:48] <gloin_> these instructions
[10:48] <gloin_>    gksudo "gedit /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf"
[10:49] <gloin_> su -; vim /etc blah blah
[10:49] <DeeJay1> highvoltage: but I still have some issues with adding new users to the system, no idea why
[10:49] <highvoltage> what happens?
[10:49] <spacey> DeeJay1: that has nothing to do with the thinclients at least:)
[10:50] <DeeJay1> spacey: yes, but it was annoying the last time I did it..
[10:51] <DeeJay1> highvoltage: when using normal useradd -m foo and then passwd foo the users actually don't show up in sabayon and they can't log in on the clients AFAIR
[10:52] <DeeJay1> gloin_: why not? it does work
[10:52] <gloin_> I don't know
[10:52] <gloin_> I'm fighting pretty hard with it
[10:52] <highvoltage> gloin_: the older ubuntu ltsp wasn't that greight. ogra has put in a hude amount of work into it, and the newer one is certainly much better already
[10:53] <gloin_> and some of the stuff that I'm having to contend with is just plain goofy imo... like the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf issue for starters
[10:53] <gloin_> I spent a good deal of time on that issue alone
[10:53] <gloin_> which was, well, goofy!
[10:54] <highvoltage> ltsp.org was better than the last release because it booted faster, it had better support (even though still sucky) for local devices, it supports swapping over the network, it has more options for lts.conf, etc
[10:54] <DeeJay1> gloin_: hmm, when you think that that is goofy then try to set up pxebooting on a different machine than the ltsp server :)
[10:54] <gloin_> DeeJay1: no doubt.
[10:54] <gloin_> I've got more than enough fun going on just dealing with parallel dhcp servers
[10:54] <highvoltage> ubuntu's ltsp is better from a design perspective, and is only starting to get to a more mature level now.
[10:54] <spacey> DeeJay1: thats quite easy
[10:55] <spacey> hm ow wait, we just have the dhcp server on a different machine
[10:55] <gloin_> highvoltage: I kind of agree.  I'm going to need local devices (at least one printer) and probably sound.  On the other hand, if the design philosophy is better, that's great - down the road.
[10:55] <DeeJay1> spacey: I know, I've had such a setup at home
[10:55] <gloin_> but I needed this box going last week =] 
[10:55] <spacey> gloin well you can install the classic ltsp 
[10:56] <spacey> we had that going in half an hour or so
[10:56] <spacey> including coffee
[10:56] <gloin_> heh
[10:56] <gloin_> really?
[10:56] <spacey> at least no problems
[10:56] <spacey> :)
[10:56] <spacey> but its not upgrade friendly
[10:57] <spacey> probably needs extra attention when you upgrade to dapper
[10:57] <gloin_> k
[10:57] <spacey> not sure though :p
[10:57] <spacey> didn't try 
[10:57] <spacey> all the ltsp tools are packaged in universe
[10:58] <gloin_> hmm
[10:58] <gloin_> what's edubuntu-server provide?
[10:59] <spacey> ?
[10:59] <gloin_> it's wanting to come off with the standalone package
[10:59] <spacey> its a metapackage
[10:59] <gloin_> k
[10:59] <gloin_> so
[10:59] <gloin_> ok
[10:59] <spacey> time for breakfast
[10:59] <gloin_> I'm wondering if I want to delete /opt/ltsp and use the ltsp.org stuff instead or can I get away with leaving it?
[11:00] <gloin_> breakfast?!
[11:00] <gloin_> 2am here, mate
[11:00] <spacey> 11am here ;p
[11:00] <spacey> gloin you can always tar it as a backup
[11:01] <spacey> traditional ltsp has the same path
[11:01] <gloin_> yeha
[11:01] <gloin_> yeah*
[11:01] <gloin_> and then clear out /tftpboot
[11:01] <gloin> hmm
[11:02] <gloin> lag seems to have disappeared.  good.
[11:04] <gloin> anyhow
[11:04] <gloin> I still don't grasp the ubuntu aversion to root
[11:04] <gloin> even though I use ubuntu =] 
[11:05] <highvoltage> gloin: nothing stops you from doing that. using sudo is just more secure
[11:05] <gloin> heh
[11:05] <gloin> not really
[11:05] <highvoltage> yes, really!
[11:05] <gloin> I tend to use a marginally-strong (non-dictionary) password for my user account
[11:05] <gloin> and root gets something much, much tougher
[11:06] <highvoltage> gloin: i've seen many teachers at schools forgetting a root terminal open
[11:06] <gloin> that's why I don't give root out
[11:06] <gloin> teachers at work don't have admin to their windows boxes either
[11:06] <ogra_> gloin, did you ever maintain a sever that had ssh running *and* was connected to the internet 24h ?
[11:06] <highvoltage> gloin: if they forget a sudo accounts terminal open, and use sudo, then if a kid comes an hour later to fiddle, there's not much he can do
[11:06] <gloin> ogra_: hi =] 
[11:06] <gloin> and yes, I do
[11:06] <gloin> disable remote root logon and require su -
[11:06] <ogra_> gloin, and did you ever read its logs ?
[11:07] <gloin> and install fail2ban =] 
[11:07] <spacey> ogra_: you get scared by failed attempts?
[11:07] <gloin> yes, I do read the logs
[11:07] <spacey> my logs are full
[11:07] <spacey> but i don't care
[11:07] <ogra_> mostly all automated attacks assume there is a root user you can log in with
[11:07] <gloin> yep
[11:07] <gloin> so
[11:07] <gloin> simple config change in sshd.conf
[11:08] <gloin> no remote root logon
[11:08] <gloin> anyhow
[11:08] <ogra_> and why not grab the evil by its roots ? instead of healing the symptom ?
[11:08] <gloin> 2 reasons
[11:08] <gloin> 1: users don't like to use really long passwords, nor particularly strong ones
[11:08] <DeeJay1> gloin: one can always use sudo bash like I do :P
[11:09] <highvoltage> or sudo -s
[11:09] <highvoltage> ogra_: i have a feature request :)
[11:09] <gloin> 2: when I see stuff like "type the following command: gksudo "gedit /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf"" I want to gouge out my eyes
[11:09] <gloin> su - 
[11:09] <ogra_> highvoltage, haha... its feature freeze today :)
[11:09] <gloin> password
[11:09] <spacey> or sudo -i
[11:09] <gloin> then all of a sudden you get tab-completion
[11:09] <gloin> for /sbin
[11:10] <highvoltage> ogra_: i know, it's a very small one. you know that gnome plugin that gives you "Open Terminal" from the desktop? any chance that we can have that?
[11:10] <gloin> that's the other frustrating thing about having to sudo everything
[11:10] <ogra_> gloin, the advantage of the above is that you only need to cut n paste it to a alt-f2 dialog ;)
[11:10] <highvoltage> ogra_: it just makes telephonic support so much easier
[11:10] <gloin> sudo no-more-tab-completion-for-you
[11:10] <gloin> hehe
[11:10] <gloin> but gedit?!
[11:10] <spacey> highvoltage: nautilus terminal
[11:10] <spacey> or something
[11:11] <spacey> its packaged
[11:11] <ogra_> gloin, you can enable tab completion for sudo ...
[11:11] <highvoltage> nautilus-open-terminal
[11:11] <spacey> yup
[11:11] <DeeJay1> got to run, got some MS Word files to format for printing grrrrrrrrr
[11:11] <ogra_> highvoltage, i'll look what i can do 
[11:11] <spacey> thats what you mean right
[11:11] <highvoltage> ogra_: thanks!
[11:11] <ogra_> highvoltage, but no promises ...
[11:12] <gloin> ogra_: but enabling that makes /sbin browseable by unprivileged users.  Not so good.
[11:12] <gloin> I'd rather root be root
[11:12] <spacey> gloin: that doesn't matter
[11:12] <gloin> then it's really clear when you're running as a privileged user.
[11:12] <spacey> they can get there anyway
[11:13] <highvoltage> ogra_: it's ok. even if it makes the next version i'll be happy.
[11:13] <spacey> highvoltage: its already there right?or are you talking about something else
[11:14] <ogra_> spacey, not preinstalled
[11:14] <gloin> hmm
[11:14] <spacey> do you really want to preinstall such a thing?
[11:14] <spacey> i think they removed it by default for a reason
[11:14] <spacey> especially in edubuntu
[11:14] <gloin> my feature request would be a edukubuntu iso
[11:14] <spacey> the kids don't need that
[11:14] <ogra_> gloin, feel free to make one
[11:15] <gloin> ogra_: k
[11:15] <gloin> might be fun
[11:15] <highvoltage> spacey: it's not installed by default
[11:15] <spacey> so?
[11:15] <gloin> so strip out gdm, setup kdm, get rid of anything gnome not neccessary for gtk apps, and bundle it, right?
[11:15] <highvoltage> spacey: for the educators it's real handy, if they need it fast
[11:15] <ogra_> gloin, not really ...
[11:15] <gloin> kde kiosk API is essential
[11:15] <spacey> not the educators i know
[11:15] <highvoltage> spacey: and i have a big bunch of documentation that refers to "right click on your desktop, and..."
[11:16] <spacey> and most of the users are kids
[11:16] <spacey> and they don't need that
[11:16] <highvoltage> true. would it hurt them to have it there though?
[11:16] <ogra_> gloin, i'm planning a kiosk mode for ltsp for the next release (in fact something basic is already there)
[11:16] <spacey> well i don't think more then 4% of the targeted end users would use it
[11:17] <spacey> and application -> accessoires is not that hard
[11:17] <ogra_> so you can get around running expensive desktop environments if you only want one app on the clients
[11:17] <gloin> ogra_: cool.  Using Kiosk?  I know gnome is trying to catch up with that featureset, so it would be nice to not have to reinvent the wheel
[11:17] <spacey> anyway i don't really care:) but i expect they already thought about it and decided to leave it out
[11:17] <highvoltage> spacey: i promise you, explaining to someone who speaks another language to open it at applicatoin -> accessories is very hard
[11:17] <ogra_> gloin, gnome is already up to date since 2 releases ... look at sabayon
[11:17] <gloin> or do you consider gnome to be an expensive de
[11:18] <gloin> I've looked at sabayon
[11:18] <highvoltage> spacey: telling someone to right click on their background picture and clicking on open terminal is easier, i promise you :)
[11:18] <gloin> it's about 2 years behind
[11:18] <spacey> yes ofcourse
[11:18] <spacey> it is
[11:18] <ogra_> gloin, on a kiosk system (that only should run a browser for example) i consider blackbox a expensive de
[11:18] <spacey> you can put sabayon in ldap
[11:18] <spacey> thats nice
[11:18] <gloin> ogra_: sure, for that =] 
[11:19] <gloin> I use Kiosk API for desktop clients
[11:19] <gloin> so people who auth in the students OU get a very locked-down desktop
[11:19] <ogra_> thats what sabayon is for in gnome
[11:19] <gloin> people in the staff OU get a different desktop
[11:19] <gloin> etc
[11:19] <ogra_> you can make different user profiles and assign it to users 
[11:19] <gloin> first did this about 2 and a half years ago, authenticating an LTSP system against AD
[11:19] <gloin> and it worked perfectly
[11:21] <gloin> it's good to know that gnome has that feature available
[11:21] <highvoltage> ogra_: in terms of etherboot, you still need an etherboot version with pxe emulation with dapper, right?
[11:22] <ogra_> i have an easy howto prepared ...
[11:23] <ogra_> i'll add some code in the dapper+1 version that automates etherboot ... until then you'll need to set it up manually with 3 commands ...
[11:24] <ogra_> highvoltage, nautilus-open-terminal is in universe ... no way to get it in at this point of the release cycle ...
[11:25] <ogra_> sorry for that ... i'll put it on my dapper+1 list 
[11:26] <highvoltage> ogra_: thanks for looking at it!
[11:28] <ogra_> highvoltage, so what about your two documents, am i allowed to change and distribute them ?
[11:29] <ogra_> they are the best i've see so far and i'd like to ship them adjusted to ubuntu ltsp and dapper ... as edubuntu-docs 
[11:29] <highvoltage> ogra_: yes, but please take away any reference to TSF, since they're pre-release docs, and we wouldn't want to distribute it with mistakes
[11:29] <ogra_> any specific license you like ?
[11:29] <highvoltage> ogra_: so if everyone in Edubuntu is happy with the changes, put the Edubuntu stamp on it and distribute :)
[11:30] <ogra_> yay, thanks for that 
[11:30] <highvoltage> i like GNU FDL, but if you like CC share-alike, i'm fine with that too.
[11:30] <highvoltage> any license in mind?
[11:30] <ogra_> nope
[11:30] <ogra_> i just have to ask that ... 
[11:30] <ogra_> legal blah ...
[11:30] <ogra_> :)
[11:30] <spacey> whats TSF?
[11:31] <highvoltage> http://www.tsf.org.za
[11:32] <spacey> ah
[11:32] <spacey> the tuxlabs stuff
[11:47] <highvoltage> hi JaneW 
[11:50] <JaneW> highvoltage: hello
[11:50] <JaneW> highvoltage: I was just about to drive through there when our power came back on
[11:50] <JaneW> highvoltage: have you guys been affected there at all?
[11:54] <highvoltage> JaneW: not that i know of
[11:54] <highvoltage> JaneW: the generators and batteries does an excellent job of keeping us ignorant about power problems :)
[11:54] <JaneW> highvoltage: lucky!
[11:54] <JaneW> highvoltage: can I come and pitch a tent there?
[11:55] <highvoltage> JaneW: of course!
[11:55] <highvoltage> JaneW: as long as Ronelle doesn't catch you doing it! :)
[11:55] <JaneW> highvoltage: seriosly our Pick'nPay is running out of stock...
[11:55] <JaneW> highvoltage: since monday there is no bread, candles, torches, bateries or gas lamps etc
[11:56] <jsgotangco> JaneW: i heard rubbing stones would make fire
[11:57] <highvoltage> ouch!
[11:58] <JaneW> jsgotangco: I shall try that. I actually don't mind no power after hours, but I can;t work without it
[11:58] <highvoltage> a friend who's visiting Kenya e-mailed me today and asked "how are things down there in third world cape town?"
[11:58] <spacey> why do you have so much power problems?
[11:59] <jsgotangco> ive never experience a blackout for a while...
[11:59] <jsgotangco> probably a few minutes but not noticeable
[11:59] <spacey> last time the power was out here was a few years ago, and only for a few hours
[12:00] <jsgotangco> same here
[12:00] <jsgotangco> and we don't even have nuclear energy at all
[12:01] <jsgotangco> the last time we had a blackout at night, we were stargazing...
[12:02] <JaneW> in a nutshell
[12:03] <JaneW> 1) OUr nuclear power generator is reaching the end of its serviceable life
[12:03] <JaneW> there are 4 generators, number 4 broke in Dec causing some disruptions and emergency shutdowns
[12:03] <JaneW> now number 2 is faulty and has been shut off
[12:04] <JaneW> 2) Massive demand: the demand for electricity has increased substantially - esp with the government electrifying so many new areas in the past 5-10 years
[12:04] <JaneW> add the 2 together = darkness
[12:04] <jsgotangco> wow talk about nuclear meltdown
[12:05] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: we don't have to talk about it, we're living it!
[12:12] <JaneW> http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=&art_id=vn20060222072441730C342811
[12:19] <jsgotangco> brb
[12:25] <signifer123> jeeez...
[12:26] <highvoltage> jeez?
[12:26] <signifer123> yeah thats bad...
[12:26] <highvoltage> signifer123: your nick has a weird dyslexic effect on me, i keep reading "jennifer123"
[12:28] <signifer123> uhhhh.....never hweard anyone say that about my nick :_p
[12:28] <signifer123> heard*
[12:38] <signifer123> cyall
[12:40] <highvoltage> so, the edubuntu cookbook, can we use the tsf pages as a first draft and get the docs done in time?
[12:40] <highvoltage> i have some time this afternoon and tomorrow evening if there's something i can do to help.
[12:42] <ogra_> highvoltage, i'm already mostly done with changing everything to edubuntu ... so now we should add specific dapper stuff ...
[12:42] <ogra_> waiting for Kamion to approve the package now ...
[12:43] <highvoltage> cool bananas.
[12:43] <ogra_> currently i only switched the ooo2 doc to html ... its easier to edit ...
[12:44] <ogra_> i'll transfer it to docbook in the end i think
[12:44] <highvoltage> i don't like ooo so much anymore.
[12:44] <highvoltage> i think i'll stick to html too from now one. perhaps it's time i started using latex or something.
[12:45] <highvoltage> or quanta, if i feel chirpy
[12:49] <highvoltage> ogra_: is there a conversion tool from html to docbook, or do you mean a manual conversion?
[12:49] <highvoltage> ogra_: also, that stuff like "reset my desktop" or "push icons to all users" from K12-LTSP, can we get that into dapper+1 too?
[12:50] <highvoltage> ogra_: i wouldn't mind packaging it either, it's nice and simple so probably easy to package
[12:50] <ogra_> highvoltage, lest see ...
[12:50] <ogra_> i need to have a look at the code first, if its feasable for us ...
[12:51] <ogra_> (for main that is ... there should be no problem getting it packaged for universe)
[12:52] <highvoltage> ah, right. i keep leaving out that factor.
[12:54] <highvoltage> from what i've seen, the code looks very nice. i don't think it will be a problem to get it in. i'll also download the latest version of K12-LTSP so that I can get the latest nice stuff they've added from there.
[01:23] <JaneW> highvoltage: ping
[01:24] <JaneW> highvoltage: who did the quick tour pdf docs again?
[01:26] <JaneW> ogra_: I saw you thnking pitti for schoolttol - so thought it had made it in, and the Mithrandir showed me one of Kamions reports showing that it fails to build...?
[01:27] <ogra_> JaneW, i thanked doko for schooltools sync request, we're waiting for elmo to sync the package with the fix from debian ...
[01:27] <ogra_> but given that he is about 3 weeks behind with sync requests that might get hairy
[01:27] <JaneW> ogra_: ok doko, I thought it was pitti
[01:28] <JaneW> ogra_: so where do we stand?
[01:28] <ogra_> its all in elmos hands currently
[01:28] <ogra_> we have an approved sync request, so all paperwork on our side is done ...
[01:29] <highvoltage> JaneW: would depend which ones. Sean Wheller did the Ubuntu ones, i think that might be what you're refering too?
[01:31] <JaneW> highvoltage: yes that's it, it was Ed/Ubuntu 5.10 Quicktour.pdf
[01:31] <JaneW> do you have an e-mail addy for him?
[01:31] <highvoltage> JaneW: i did the content, he put it in a pdf
[01:31] <highvoltage> JaneW: sean@inwords.co.za
[01:31] <JaneW> cool, thanks :))
[01:32] <JaneW> highvoltage: we are looking at possibly including them as example content in Dapper- that ok with you?
[01:33] <highvoltage> JaneW: of course... just a sec..
[01:34] <ogra_> JaneW, note that i'm working on a quick and dirty handbook we can ship, based on jonathans two docs he posted here yesterday ... the package is already at Kamions desk fo approval ...
[01:34] <highvoltage> JaneW: i think it was based on this content, right? http://jonathancarter.ossn.co.za/edubuntuproto/index.py?tour
[01:35] <ogra_> will still need some minor changes and i'll add the stuff i do in the wiki to it ...
[01:35] <highvoltage> JaneW: just be careful that you don't distribute one of the older KHangman screenshots that contain the letters "WTF"
[01:36] <ogra_> hehe
[01:36] <JaneW> highvoltage: aaah, good point!
[01:37] <JaneW> highvoltage: nah it says debn (you rigged that too!)
[01:37] <JaneW> ogra_: great news! YAY.
[01:38] <highvoltage> JaneW: it was an accident! :P
[01:39] <highvoltage> JaneW: i think someone else should do that screenshot, there's just no way i can do it without including some kind of hidden message. it's just too deep in my character.
[01:39] <JaneW> lol
[01:39] <highvoltage> JaneW: btw, how do feel about the concept of those big icons at the top: http://jonathancarter.co.za/edubuntuproto/index.py
[01:39] <JaneW> highvoltage: I still like them
[01:40] <JaneW> I still like the colours too
[01:40] <highvoltage> JaneW: still like them? i'm talking about the big blocks on top on that test home page
[01:41] <JaneW> highvoltage: wait I am looking at the wrong page :P
[01:41] <JaneW> oh those BIG icons
[01:42] <highvoltage> that's something i wanted to do with the original drupal site
[01:42] <highvoltage> drupal does that too, see: http://www.drupal.org
[01:42] <JaneW> is that where they'd be?
[01:42] <highvoltage> somehow i like it a lot. i think we'll do something similar on our site, but with the real edubuntu style, of course
[01:43] <highvoltage> probably not
[01:43] <highvoltage> but i'm lying, i stole that idea from creativecommons: www.creativecommons.org
[01:43] <JaneW> I do like the concept - as long as the blocks are nice high res images - which they seem to be
[01:44] <highvoltage> JaneW: but i like them where they are there. it's unmissable. and it's only for the front page. but i'm entirely flexible on it :)
[01:44] <highvoltage> we'll probably use as much edubuntu-specific images as possible
[01:44] <highvoltage> currently we rely on the gartoon icons.
[01:44] <JaneW> as an idea I like it...
[01:45] <highvoltage> JaneW: when the proffesional artist creates the edubuntu theme, can they keep gartoon in mind, and also, create some web graphics?
[01:45] <JaneW> erk I relaoded and they stretched bigger
[01:45] <highvoltage> JaneW: that's all i wanted to check :) just the concept. thanks
[01:45] <highvoltage> weird
[01:46] <mhz> JaneW: I have no good news
[01:46] <mhz> sorry, hi all
[01:46] <JaneW> highvoltage: I'll send you a screenshot
[01:46] <highvoltage> JaneW: don't worry, i'm not implementing that on the live site, just the concept :)
[01:47] <mhz> JaneW: the designers who were so motivated to help us with themes and stuff for edubuntu, have come back from vacations, not motivated at all.
[01:47] <highvoltage> JaneW: what the heck, send the screenshot anyway :)
[01:47] <highvoltage> mhz: who were they?
[01:47] <mhz> highvoltage: hehe, that's the highvoltage I knew! ;D
[01:47] <JaneW> highvoltage: sent
[01:47] <mhz> highvoltage: 3 chilean guys
[01:48] <JaneW> highvoltage: I am not sure what we are going to get from the designers, but we are back of the list - and I don;t think it includes web graphics :/
[01:48] <mhz> only one of them seems to be stil interested, so I'll meet with him on saturday, just i case I can think of more arguments
[01:49] <mhz> highvoltage: web graphics you need?
[01:50] <highvoltage> ogra_: i remembered something else while looking at JaneW's screenshot just now... the icon on the gnome-main-menu show's the Ubuntu icon, shouldn't that be the Edubuntu icon?
[01:50] <JaneW> highvoltage:  yes!
[01:50] <ogra_> probably ...
[01:50] <ogra_> artwork freeze is still far out ;)
[01:50] <highvoltage> mhz: nothing specific i can think of, i was just thinking about some specific high-res icons for the wiki, etc. but it's not crucial
[01:50] <highvoltage> ok, kewl.
[01:52] <mhz> ogra_: no way I'll have a theme ready for edubuntu (they were going to provide the icons on tuesday) :(
[01:53] <highvoltage> JaneW: what did you mean? are we still an option for the gnome themes, wallpaper, etc? or is it still definitely a professional artist doing it?
[01:56] <JaneW> highvoltage: I will try to find out more, so far we were told " (silbs has) set the Ubuntu artwork as top priority ... He will also do Kubuntu and Edubuntu, but these will follow afterwards. "
[02:38] <highvoltage> ok, bye!
[03:43] <JaneW> ogra_: are you still looking for sabdfl's space pictures?
[03:45] <ogra_> JaneW, my concept was dismissed by Kamion and jdub ...
[03:45] <JaneW> ogra_: ok, cos I found some nice ones
[03:46] <ogra_> JaneW, jdub will make a new ubuntu-artwork-screensaver package where we can add pictures ... but due to space limitation we cant add much ...
[03:46] <JaneW> ogra_:  have they decided what to use instead?
[03:46] <JaneW> ogra_: nice pun
[03:46] <ogra_> i splitted the ubuntu-artwork-screensaver package out of ubuntu-artwork ... they didnt like that 
[03:46] <ogra_> even i find it rather logical ...
[04:09] <dsaa> ogra: i'm currently testing edubuntu flight 4. first i used a 17 inch monitor and the display is normal and later used a 14 inch monitor since i forgot to change the resolution before. now i can't see the display. what command will i enter at the prompt to change the resolution and open edubuntu normally.
[04:09] <ogra_> go to console (ctrl-alt-f1)
[04:09] <ogra_> log in
[04:09] <ogra_> run: sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[04:10] <ogra_> leave all settings apart from the resolution alone ...
[04:10] <ogra_> afterwards: sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart (or reboot the machine)
[04:11] <dsaa> ogra: thanks a lot
[04:12] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[04:12] <jsgotangco> ogra_, it seems blender is broken
[04:13] <ogra_> works here ...
[04:13] <ogra_> was there an upload ?
[04:15] <jsgotangco> i haven't checked -changes but it didnt work for me in amd64
[04:15] <ogra_> i know dholbach has a package ready, seems he didnt upload yet ...
[04:15] <ogra_> hrm
[06:33] <Doktorand> hi!
[06:33] <Doktorand> i got a big problem, i cant resize my fat 32!!!
[06:33] <Doktorand> it says in red: failed to create enough space for installation!!!
[06:40] <DeeJay1> Doktorand: hmm, is the fat32 defragmented?
[06:41] <DeeJay1> Doktorand: maybe there are some small files lying around at the end of the partition
[07:33] <iloadmin> hello
[07:33] <iloadmin> Ogra I have a question 
[07:33] <ogra> yup, just saw it in #ltsp ...
[07:34] <iloadmin> I need to know how to make sound work in edubuntu
[07:34] <ogra> sound is built in in the current development release, we'll release it in april
[07:35] <iloadmin> and also I run tuxtype and it runs choppy in the thin clinet
[07:35] <ogra> hmm, what kind of client is that ? 
[07:35] <iloadmin> optiplex gx1
[07:36] <iloadmin> and  it has 512 ram
[07:36] <ogra> it runs fine on a decent laptop used as client, but i know on very low llevel HW its poor
[07:36] <ogra> hmm, that shouldnt be it then ...
[07:36] <iloadmin> I only have one thin client connected
[07:37] <ogra> youo can try if network compression helps ..
[07:38] <ogra> make a /opt/ltsp/powerpc/etc/lts.conf containing:
[07:38] <ogra> [default]     NETWORK_COMPRESSION=True
[07:39] <ogra> that will make ltsp use compressed connections ...
[08:11] <iloadmin> ok no problem
[08:18] <ogra> oh, indeed, replace powerpc with i386 on an intel machine ...
[10:08] <lucasvo> ist that bug with gnome and kde still present_
[10:08] <lucasvo> ?
[10:09] <ogra> lucasvo, no idea
[10:09] <ogra> but...
[10:09] <ogra>  ltsp (0.79) dapper; urgency=low
[10:09] <ogra>  .
[10:09] <ogra>    * add shutdown icons to the themes for ldm
[10:09] <ogra>    * add shutdown function to ldm to easily shut down the clients
[10:11] <lucasvo> cool
[10:11] <lucasvo> finallz
[10:11] <lucasvo> crap
[10:11] <lucasvo> this X restart broke mz hole szstem
[10:11] <lucasvo> keyboard, theme, icons
[10:12] <lucasvo> it didn't broke but I found out
[10:12] <ogra> just unscrew the y and z keys and re-add them in reverse order :P
[10:12] <lucasvo> I don't want ae and oe
[10:12] <lucasvo> whichactuallz don't work
[10:13] <lucasvo> but the at isn't on the 2 
[10:13] <lucasvo> it's mixed
[10:13] <ogra> want an  ?
[10:13] <ogra> :)
[10:13] <lucasvo> DV\
[10:13] <lucasvo> ?
[10:15] <lucasvo> ogra: so you will do the button for dapper?
[10:15] <ogra> its already in ... 
[10:15] <lucasvo> it is?
[10:15] <ogra> ltsp is at 0.80 in the archive
[10:15] <lucasvo> hm, ok
[10:15] <ogra> read above ...
[10:15] <lucasvo> -me doesn't have ltsp at the moment
[10:18] <lucasvo> ogra: can't you upload a ppc chroot_
[10:19] <lucasvo> I have tried installing ubuntu on my ibook for about 5 times
[10:19] <lucasvo> and it crashes all teh time
[10:19] <lucasvo> only the livecd works
[10:19] <lucasvo> which has some prblem with NIC
[10:19] <ogra> and you cant bootstrap from it ? 
[10:19] <lucasvo> bootstrap_
[10:21] <lucasvo> ?
[10:22] <lucasvo> I can give you access to a server if that is the problem
[10:22] <lucasvo> (for uploading=
[11:34] <bjohn> Hello, I am setting up my old laptop for my middle-schooler. He likes the edubuntu apps, but would rather have the Ubuntu look. Can I install Ubuntu and then add in the educational apps?
[11:35] <ogra> bjohn, install edubuntu-desktop to get the apps and remove edubuntu-artwork and edubuntu-artwork-usplash afterwards 
[11:35] <ogra> (note that this also removes the edubuntu-desktop metapackage,  but does no harm )
[11:35] <bjohn> Ok. Will this provide the rest of the Ubuntu system and apps?
[11:36] <ogra> edubuntu-desktop is essentially ubuntu-desktop with the edu apps added
[11:36] <ogra> you can install ubuntu-desktop afterwards to make sure its all there ...