[12:05] <xerox_> Do you know how to adjust those things changed in the latest kernel releases?  I have CPUfreq which doesn't go to 100% when I do computational-expensive things... i.e. compilations take ages!  That's so bad... but I see what it *could* be useful for, in a desktop system.
[12:30] <CarlFK> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/preseed/+bug/31435 
[12:30] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31435 in preseed ""put grub where?"" [Normal,Rejected]  
[12:31] <CarlFK> I have that again, but I think it falls into the "/dev/sda1 is trashed" case - sda1 is for swap, sda2 is for raid
[12:32] <CarlFK> however, the installer is trying to use (hd0) but failing, which I think is a problem
[12:32] <sivang> ogra_: guadec in barcelona, sounds cool
[12:33] <sivang> ogra_: any canonical/ubuntu people other then you will be there?
[12:33] <Burgwork> sivang, jdub I imagine
[12:34] <sivang> Burgwork: ah right, GNOME release manager after all :)
[12:34] <Burgwork> sivang, not anymore, but I imagine seb and dholbach might be going
[12:35] <Burgwork> sivang, http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow_viewer/0,1205,l=&s=26945&a=171997&po=41,00.asp <-- this screenshot and the next 3
[12:35] <ajmitch> iirc jdub is no longer release manager for GNOME
[12:35] <Burgwork> sivang, actually, the next 5
[12:40] <sivang> Burgwork: it appears to be a common hot issue these days, but for the record I'd say that madrake/madriva were the first to come up with something very simialr to what vista screenshots you showed me
[12:40] <sivang> :)
[12:41] <sivang> Burgwork: and they did it quite a while ago
[12:41] <Burgwork> sivang, just wanted to show you
[12:45] <sivang> Burgwork: yes, thanks, it's good to see they have choosen the same approach (the 'simplistic' approach)
[12:47] <CarlFK> c: 48GB drive with 39 free - think there is anything other than the OS? ;)
[12:47] <Burgwork> CarlFK, likely it is a fresh install
[12:47] <CarlFK> how many DVD's does it take?
[12:50] <Burgwork> the new Vista? no idea
[12:51] <CarlFK> i was just amused at the 9gig used on what probably is just the OS
[12:52] <Burgwork> yes, ouch, and that doesn't include the office suite, etc.
[12:52] <Kamion> WOOT
[12:53] <Kamion> my python bindings for the evolution map widget work
[12:53] <Burgwork> is that the zooming map widget?
[12:53] <Kamion> yeah
[12:54] <Kamion> well, the zoominess is separate
[12:54] <Kamion> or at least the control of it; the map widget itself does implement some of the zooming
[12:55] <Burgwork> should I try flight 4 or the daily espresso?
[12:56] <Kamion> daily will give me more useful debug information if it fails
[12:56] <Burgwork> ok
[12:56] <Kamion> (/var/log/installer/espresso)
[12:57] <Burgwork> ok, will do tonight
[12:57] <Kamion> yup, zoominess works too
[01:06] <TheMuso> Kamion: When is the next daily CD run due?
[01:06] <TheMuso> That includes the updated gfxboot-theme-ubuntu package?
[01:06] <Kyral> Could we get a jigdo for the Daily Live?
[01:07] <CarlFK> Kyral: the .torrents are working really well
[01:07] <Kyral> CarlFK: my school blocks Torrents rather effectively
[01:07] <pitti> Kyral: live CDs can't be built with jigdo
[01:07] <Kyral> oh
[01:08] <pitti> (at least not in a sensible way, that is)
[01:08] <Kyral> Is there anyway to diff it and make it so I don't have to download it (with my cap) every day?
[01:09] <TheMuso> Kyral: rsync
[01:09] <Kamion> TheMuso: 31 7 * * *      for-project ubuntu cron.daily; for-project ubuntu cron.daily-live
[01:09] <Kyral> I almost forgot about rsync
[01:09] <Kamion> that's London time
[01:09] <Kyral> I dunno how to use it lol. Maybe grsync
[01:09] <sivang> Kamion: do you ever sleep? :)
[01:09] <Kamion> sivang: not with feature freeze approaching fast
[01:09] <pitti> Kyral: rsync -vP rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/daily-live/current/dapper-live-amd64.iso dapper-live-amd64.iso
[01:09] <TheMuso> Kamion: Thanks. Looks like I will have to wait a while. :)
[01:09] <sivang> Kamion: :)
[01:10] <pitti> Kyral: but please move this to #ubuntu
[01:10] <sivang> Kamion: :)
[01:10] <Kyral> pitti: sorry
[01:14] <infinity> pitti: How far did you/carlos/cprov get with translations uploads?
[01:14] <pitti> infinity: pretty good actually
[01:14] <infinity> pitti: I saw some talk in #c about putting all the .po files in the .changes individually (!)... I hope they got talked out of that.
[01:15] <pitti> infinity: http://librarian.dogfood.ubuntu.com/1567507/buildlog_ubuntu-dapper-i386.ept_1.90ubuntu1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
[01:15] <pitti> infinity: yes, I think so, they'll just use the tarball
[01:15] <pitti> Files: 
[01:15] <pitti>  03d022cea06cf976d6201b1a04b2965f 3256452 kde optional adept_1.90ubuntu1_i386.deb
[01:15] <pitti>  3da9cc970c74e69cea92675e16cbf27b 4378 raw-translations - ept_1.90ubuntu1_i386_translations.tar.gz
[01:16] <infinity> Yeah, the .changes looks good.
[01:16] <infinity> Now, is it being handled by soyuz? ;)
[01:18] <pitti> infinity: apparently; carlos needs to check the import tomorrow though
[01:26] <CarlFK> Kamion: can you read the comment that starts "repo, but not using the preseed file." https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/preseed/+bug/31435
[01:26] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31435 in preseed ""put grub where?"" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[01:26] <CarlFK> and tell me if you have any interest?
[01:27] <CarlFK> or should I hit reset and do it again with /boot outside the raid
[02:00] <Kamion> CarlFK: looks like an entirely separate bug
[02:00] <CarlFK> oh
[02:00] <Kamion> CarlFK: in that syslog, grub-installer says that installing grub failed
[02:00] <Kamion> which is apparently because grub couldn't read the stage1
[02:01] <Kamion> it probably just can't handle /boot being on RAID
[02:01] <CarlFK> i just rebooted and am back to the parition step
[02:02] <Kamion> now isn't really the best time for me to go through it with you step by step though, sorry - I have a bunch of code to write before I can go to bed
[02:02] <CarlFK> no problem
[02:02] <CarlFK> your call - I'm just having fun banging on it and seeing what falls apart
[02:03] <CarlFK> Ill try /boot on its own partition and see how that goes
[02:03] <doko> infinity: please requeue valgrind on amd64, builds for me
[02:05] <infinity> doko: Looks like it wants a build-dep on libc6-i386?
[02:06] <doko> infinity: it does have one
[02:06] <doko> 3.1.0-2.1
[02:07] <infinity> Oh, I don't see -2.1 in soyuz, only -2
[02:08] <doko> you're right.
[02:09] <infinity> Right, so upload that and your problems are solved, I assume. :)
[02:09] <doko> hmm, ok, uploading as 3.1.0-2.1build1
[02:09] <infinity> I don't see an upload of -2.1, ever.  -2.1build1 wouldn't be necessary.
[02:10] <infinity> But whatever. :)
[02:46] <funkyHat> Is Normal XChat still available in Dapper? In universe or something. I'm running Flight 4 Live CD in VMware and I think XChat-GNOME is poop
[02:48] <tseng> thats an #ubuntu question (topic)
[09:09] <pitti> hello
[09:10] <infinity> Yo, pittster.
[09:10] <freeflying> pitti: hi
[09:10] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[09:12] <pitti> hi infinity, hey freeflying 
[09:12] <spacey> good morning
[09:12] <Pygi> mornin' everyone
[09:12] <freeflying> pitti: how about your discussion on scim/skim yestoday ?
[09:18] <mpt> pitti: Does it, or could it, ever happen that one Ubuntu bug report is associated with more than one CVE report?
[09:19] <Mithrandir> yes, if a person reports more than one vulnerability in a bug.
[09:19] <Mithrandir> "Hi, package $foo seems to be vulnerable to CVE-$bar, CVE-$baz, please fix, kthxbye"
[09:19] <HiddenWolf> Mithrandir: lol
[09:20] <mpt> Would it be unreasonable to say "one bug per bug report please, kthxbye"? Or to split out the bug reports yourself?
[09:20] <mpt> If so, that could make Malone's CVE interface a lot simpler
[09:20] <Mithrandir> can you clone bug reports in malone?
[09:20] <infinity> mpt: It's also been known to happen that our fix was "better" than upstream's and caught two CVEs in one (yes, I have a practical example of this)
[09:20] <mpt> hmmm, ok
[09:20] <infinity> mpt: It would seem silly to file a second bug report to track the second CVE which we fixed as a result of the first.
[09:20] <Mithrandir> infinity: *cough* PHP *cough* ?
[09:21] <infinity> Mithrandir: How'd you guess? :)
[09:21] <mpt> ok, thanks
[09:21] <infinity> mpt: Can't there just be a list of "associated CVEs"?
[09:21] <infinity> I don't see that as being overwhelmingly complex to read/use.
[09:23] <infinity> Hrm, someone tripped over the wire to New Zealand.
[09:25] <ajmitch> fairly typical 
[09:40] <pitti> re
[09:40] <pitti> hey seb128 
[09:40] <seb128> hi pitti
[09:41] <pitti> mpt: actually, I planned with Brad that we'll semi-automatically open new bugs for new CVEs for tracking;
[09:41] <Pygi> mornin' seb
[09:41] <pitti> mpt: however, for manual reporting, several CVEs could be handy
[09:41] <seb128> hi Pygi
[09:44] <mpt> pitti, ok then
[09:51] <dholbach> good morning
[09:52] <infinity> See you all around meeting time.
[09:52] <dholbach> infinity: nice work u-down
[09:53] <infinity> dholbach: Yeah, it still needs a few bugfixes in usplash to make it less goofy, but I needed to upload something before featurefreeze, so I had bugs to work on for the next month. :)
[09:53] <dholbach> infinity: i tested it on two machines, it's nice! ROCK ON!
[09:54] <Pygi> mornin' dholbach
[09:54] <dholbach> hey Pygi
[09:54] <pitti> good night infinity 
[09:55] <dholbach> hey pitti
[10:08] <mdke> jdub, see "your" email on sounder?
[10:18] <TheMuso> dholbach: Basic accessibility profile stuff is done, and Mithrandir should have it by now.
[10:20] <dholbach> Nice!
[10:20] <dholbach> good work :)
[10:23] <seb128> infinity: know about /usr/share/lintian/overrides/python2.4-samba conflict between python2.4-samba and samba?
[10:27] <mdke> what package does the disk space notification stuff?
[10:27] <sivang> re all
[10:29] <infinity> seb128: I do now.  Can you file a bug for me so I can fix it when I get home?
[10:29] <seb128> infinity: sure
[10:30] <infinity> seb128: Oh, I see, the old package was buggy.  Feh.
[10:32] <infinity> seb128: The file wasn't in the wrong package in breezy.  Do we care deeply about having the Replaces in there just for smooth dapper->dapper upgrades?
[10:32] <infinity> seb128: If so, I'll fix it when I get back.
[10:32] <seb128> infinity: usually I do use a Replaces until next sync with Debian
[10:32] <seb128> where I drop it
[10:32] <pitti> mdke: gnome-volume-manager
[10:32] <seb128> that avoids to get 40 people asking on IRC about it
[10:33] <infinity> seb128: Sounds fair to me.
[10:34] <seb128> infinity: bug #32585
[10:34] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32585 in samba "conflict between python2.4-samba and samba" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32585
[10:34] <mdke> pitti, thanks
[10:36] <seb128> Kamion, mdz: would updating xchat-gnome to a new version (new "sound plugin" and mostly polish, cleanup, bug fixing) would be ok?
[10:38] <Kamion> seb128: yes, fine
[10:38] <seb128> thank you
[10:38] <Kamion> seb128: though I'd like to see the changelog
[10:39] <seb128> Kamion: k, I'll mail mdz and you with it when they have roller the tarball
[10:39] <seb128> s/roller/rolled
[10:39] <Kamion> thanks
[10:40] <seb128> np, thank *you* :)
[10:43] <TheMuso> What would be an appropriate way to refer to the GNU free documentation license in the debian/copyright file?
[10:44] <Kamion> copy/paste the text of the licence
[10:44] <TheMuso> ok
[10:44] <mpt> Kamion, yo
[10:44] <Kamion> obviously listing the copyright holder and any text used to apply the licence to the docs at the top
[10:45] <Kamion> mpt: hiya - so I'm working on Espresso's location page at the moment
[10:45] <Kamion> mpt: I've got the zoomy map ported over from Evolution (I'll undo the zoominess later, was just easier to port the whole thing)
[10:46] <Kamion> mpt: I'm having a bit of trouble working out how to do the timezone option menu you proposed, though
[10:46] <Kamion> mpt: it appears that we meant it to be a list of timezone names, presumably in some kind of "more canonical" form (so GMT rather than Europe/London, say)
[10:47] <dholbach> Kamion: like in   gksudo time-admin   ?
[10:47] <Kamion> mpt: but this turns out to be unexpectedly awkward; firstly there's no list of all such timezone names anywhere, and secondly some of them clash with each other (e.g. EST)
[10:47] <mpt> oh.
[10:47] <Kamion> dholbach: yeah, same widget
[10:48] <Kamion> gnome-system-tools lifted it from evolution too, I actually used the gnome-system-tools code because it was better-encapsulated
[10:48] <mpt> Kamion, but given a city, you know what timezone it's in?
[10:48] <Kamion> mpt: yeah, and it's quite easy to get the letter-abbreviation name for a given timezone
[10:48] <Kamion> so I was thinking maybe turn that into a label rather than an option menu?
[10:48] <mpt> Kamion, ok, how about making the timezone text instead of a control
[10:49] <mpt> yeah
[10:49] <mpt> snap
[10:49] <Kamion> I know we put it there in case you knew your timezone but (for whatever reason) not the nearest city in that timezone
[10:49] <Kamion> but if the text updates dynamically as you move the mouse over the map, I reckon it shouldn't be too bad
[10:49] <mpt> yeah
[10:49] <mpt> that's fine
[10:49] <Kamion> ok, great
[10:50] <Kamion> shall I amend the spec accordingly?
[10:50] <mpt> I can do that if you like
[10:50] <Kamion> if you don't mind, sure - no need to spend time doing a new mockup though, if it's just "put a label in the place where the option menu used to be"
[10:50] <Mithrandir> uh, where did the "print" option in the gimp go?
[10:51] <Kamion> hmm, the way time-admin centres the city name in its hover-text is sort of suboptimal
[10:51] <Kamion> it means the start of the city name jumps about and it's hard to read on the fly
[10:52] <Kamion> dholbach: (same widget except that I ported everything but the map itself to Python so that I could fiddle around with the UI more easily ;-))
[10:52] <dholbach> Mithrandir: you need gimp-print package
[10:52] <dholbach> Kamion: you rock!
[10:58] <seb128> lifeless: what version of evolution do you use?
[11:05] <dholbach> does anybody have some .swf files to share?
[11:09] <HiddenWolf> dholbach: just rip some off the flash/shockwave sites.
[11:09] <dholbach> HiddenWolf: rip off?
[11:10] <HiddenWolf> dholbach: you can probably just download them off the sites.
[11:10] <dholbach> that's what I looked for, but it proved less easy than I though
[11:10] <dholbach> t
[11:12] <Pygi> dholbach: how should I send them to you?
[11:12] <dholbach> dholbach@ubuntu.com - if that works for you
[11:13] <Pygi> 3 enough? or more needed?
[11:13] <dholbach> Pygi: 3 sounds like a good start - thanks a lot
[11:15] <Pygi> k, once you need more please let me know
[11:28] <highvoltage> what's the new ubuntu version after dapper going to be called?
[11:29] <tepsipakki> highvoltage: AFAIK, it's not named yet
[11:30] <ogra_> dapper+1 :)
[11:30] <jdub> BUENOS DIAS, AMANTES DE LA LIBERTAD!
[11:30] <highvoltage> ogra_: :)
[11:30] <pitti> hey jdub 
[11:31] <Pygi> ogra: hehe :)
[11:31] <highvoltage> :)
[11:31] <Pygi> one week after release or something like that naming is done if I am not wrong?
[11:31] <jdub> Pygi: it's usually quietly known for a while
[11:32] <Kinnison> hehe
[11:33] <doko> pitti, Riddell, dholbach, everybody: please could you check out "deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/tmp/OOo2 ./" if printing still works?
[11:33] <doko> pitti: ... and how to change the language packs
[11:33] <Riddell> printing?  that's for people who like, print.
[11:35] <Riddell> doko: renamed to s/2//?
[11:35] <doko> Riddell: yes
[11:36] <Riddell> seems to bring in awhole load of libgnomeprint stuff
[11:36] <pitti> doko: langpacks change? due to the renaming of the locale packages?
[11:36] <doko> pitti: -l10n and -help packages
[11:37] <pitti> doko: alright, I can clean that up right after it gets uploaded
[11:37] <Pygi> everyone: any chance that we can patch gaim for dapper to say to users that they are breaking TOS when we are not removing that functionality?
[11:37] <hunger> Any chance of getting the r300 driver working in dapper?
[11:38] <hunger> From what I understand the stuff should be Xorg as used in dapper already.
[11:39] <Pygi> hunger: r300 is heavily unstable
[11:39] <theine> Hi, will the latest stable version of the ipw2100 driver (1.2.0) be part of Dapper's kernel?
[11:40] <hunger> Pygi: I got positive feedback from my gentoo-using friends... not that this is a garantee for anything;-)
[11:40] <lemsto> has a bug report been made for mouse buttons problem in xorg? (11 buttons when 7 is set). Many people are talking of it on ubuntu forums but i can't find a bug report about it....
[11:40] <Pygi> hunger: even on their site:  It is *UNTESTED* and *BROKEN* ! :)
[11:41] <Pygi> hunger: we tend to take catious steps :)
[11:41] <hunger> Is that normal?
[11:41] <hunger> Pygi: Yes... I know. But then Xgl is, too;-)
[11:42] <hunger> Pygi: And without r300 I can not even test that;-)
[11:45] <Riddell> doko: "No Default Printer Found"  crash
[11:45] <doko> Riddell: crash?
[11:45] <Pygi> hunger: well, you can install it, but it shouldn't be there by default
[11:46] <Riddell> openoffice.org-kde bringing in gtk/atk/pango/cairo is quite evil
[11:46] <Pygi> hunger: Xgl is proved to work, but r300 is no-no :-/
[11:46] <Riddell> doko: yes
[11:46] <hunger> Pygi: Xgl is proven to work?
[11:46] <doko> Riddell: gnome or kde desktop?
[11:47] <hunger> Pygi: All 3 people trying it had their machines frozen when opening the first window...
[11:47] <Riddell> doko: kde
[11:47] <hunger> Pygi: Of course that is only the people I know:-)
[11:48] <mdke> Kamion, mdz, could you have a look at approving ubuntu-docs 5.10-6.3, you should find it somewhere in the breezy-updates queue
[11:48] <Kinnison> hunger: Xgl vaguely worked on my laptop
[11:48] <doko> Riddell: no, it's in -core, we will assimilate you ...
[11:49] <doko> pitti, dholbach: does printing work for you?
[11:49] <hunger> Well, no use in discussing relative brokeness of features. Too bad r300 won't make it in dapper, even though I do understand the reasoning.
[11:49] <pitti> doko: downloading in progress...
[11:49] <pitti> doko: oh, a dist-upgrade doesn't catch it
[11:50] <pitti> doko: will there be transitional packages?
[11:50] <doko> doko: no, -desktop will depend on the right things
[11:51] <hunger> Does udev handle creation of /dev/udev/card* ?
[11:51] <hunger> s/udev/dri/
[11:51] <pitti> doko: and for all the poor lads who don't have -desktop installed?
[11:52] <Kamion> mdke: likely to go through breezy-updates just after feature freeze
[11:52] <pitti> doko: ah, boggle, I know why I can't install anything - no amd64 packages
[11:52] <Kamion> mdke: what about ubuntu-docs 5.10-7?
[11:53] <Kamion> was it the obsolete one?
[11:53] <mdke> Kamion, who uploaded it?
[11:53] <mdke> if it was daniel back in december, then yes, obsolete one
[11:54] <Kamion> the changelog says you, but it was back in December
[11:54] <Kamion>    * new text, image and css in /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html (Ubuntu #15013, #16932, #17605 and #20692)
[11:54] <Ubugtu> ubuntu bug 15013 in About Page "About Ubuntu page needs proper theming" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15013
[11:54] <Ubugtu> ubuntu bug 16932 in ubuntu-docs "firefox default page: section "Kernel" talks about GNU" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16932
[11:54] <Kamion>    * new and updated translations for about-ubuntu and faqguide
[11:54] <Ubugtu> ubuntu bug 17605 in About Page "no version listed on first page of About Ubuntu" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17605
[11:54] <mdke> right yeah kill that please
[11:55] <mdke> i thought it got killed when 5.10-6.2 was processed
[11:55] <Kamion> nah, katie couldn't really reject from the unapproved state so it sat around forever
[11:56] <Kamion> fortunately, soyuz can, so rejected
[11:56] <mdke> yay
[11:56] <Kamion> and ubuntu-docs_5.10-6.3 looks pretty straightforward actually - accepted
[11:56] <mdke> thanks, yes it's really simple
[12:01] <pitti> Kamion: can you please demote python-osd to clean up anastacia a bit?
[12:01] <TheMuso> c
[12:01] <TheMuso> sorry, wrong window.
[12:02] <Kamion> pitti: anastacia's not listing it for demotion ...
[12:02] <doko> pitti: you can start them from a i386 chroot
[12:02] <pitti> Kamion: odd, it has no reverse deps
[12:02] <Kamion> ubuntu-server-dapper/server: * python-osd
[12:02] <Kamion> I'll fix the seeds
[12:02] <pitti> oh, server
[12:02] <pitti> oh, ok
[12:03] <pitti> thanks
[12:10] <lifeless> seb128:  2.5.91-0ubuntu1  
[12:10] <lifeless> mjg59: ping
[12:11] <seb128> lifeless: k, ... upstream have reopened the bug, a debug backtrace would be welcome but you can wait on the new -dbg that will come probably for that
[12:11] <lifeless> seb128: ok
[12:13] <dexem> what's the package name of the new installer? I want to fill a bug against it...
[12:13] <Riddell> seb128: where can I find the default font sizes in gnome?
[12:13] <tepsipakki> dexem: debian-installer
[12:13] <tepsipakki> dexem: or do you mean espresso on the live-cd?
[12:14] <seb128> Riddell: gconftool-2 -R /desktop/gnome/interface | grep font
[12:14] <seb128> Riddell: and the window manager is somewhere else probably
[12:14] <seb128> why?
[12:14] <seb128> the font for the wm I mean
[12:14] <dexem> tepsipakki: espresso :)
[12:15] <jdub> ogra_, Kamion: that u-a upload hasn't hit the archive  yet, right? is it out of NEW?
[12:15] <mjg59> lifeless: Hi
[12:15] <ogra_> jdub, dunno if Kamion finally approved it 
[12:16] <jdub> ogra_: you added some images and created a new package in control, right?
[12:16] <lifeless> mjg59: hi
[12:16] <ogra_> jdub, i created a new package and only copied the default wallpaper so far ...
[12:16] <lifeless> mjg59: tracked down one resume lockup
[12:16] <lifeless> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta/+bug/32593
[12:16] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32593 in linux-meta linux "Dell X1 fails to resume with mmc_core and sdhci modules loaded" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[12:17] <ogra_> jdub, the source should be in the archive ...
[12:17] <lifeless> mjg59: hibernate appears borked though, the hibernate key has stopped working
[12:17] <Riddell> seb128: trying to get KDE fonts to match (we are using a mostly fixed DPI now)
[12:17] <Riddell> seb128: so 10 is the default?
[12:17] <seb128> yep
[12:18] <seb128> depending of what you speak about
[12:18] <lifeless> mjg59: I found some weird gnome option to turn suspend into hibernate and I tried that, it appeared to hang during the hibernate process - left it for 15 minutes with the disk light hard on, no seeking appeared to happen.
[12:18] <seb128> interface is "Sans 10" by default
[12:18] <lifeless> mjg59: want a bug filed about the hibernate button regression ?
[12:18] <mjg59> No, that'll be fixed soon
[12:18] <lifeless> mjg59: ok. Want one on hibernate taking so long/hanging ?
[12:19] <janimo> hunger, there are some people who have dri working with r300 in dapper (not me though)
[12:19] <StevenK> I've found hibernate taking an age in breezy.
[12:19] <mjg59> lifeless: That's more interesting
[12:19] <StevenK> I moved back to -9-686 and it seems to have stopped doing that.
[12:19] <mjg59> lifeless: Can you disable the dpms stuff in /etc/default/acpi-support ?
[12:19] <mjg59> That may get you some more diagnostic output
[12:19] <lifeless> mjg59: sure.
[12:21] <lifeless> mjg59: I shall try a hibernate now
[12:21] <lifeless> mjg59: do you need more detail on the mmc_core/sdhci thing ?
[12:21] <lifeless> mjg59: I presume unloading them during suspend/resume will fix it trivially.
[12:22] <mjg59> lifeless: I'll look into it. Does your sd slot work?
[12:22] <lifeless> mjg59: dunno. won't with them removed :)
[12:22] <lifeless> hang on, I'll load them and find my demo card
[12:24] <Kamion> jdub: I was a bit scared by a new 2MB package that was to go on the CD
[12:24] <Kamion> jdub: and was unconvinced that it should be split in the first place
[12:24] <Kamion> but whatever, I'll approve it in a bit
[12:29] <jdub> Kamion: whoa, whoa,
[12:29] <jdub> Kamion: i don't disagree :-)
[12:29] <jdub> Kamion: i wanted to see the changes first :-)
[12:29] <Pygi>  dholbach: ping
[12:30] <dholbach> Pygi: pong
[12:30] <Pygi> what was the result of the test?
[12:30] <lifeless> mjg59: yes it works
[12:30] <jdub> whoa, pitti's playing whack-a-png
[12:30] <lifeless> put in the card, up it came in a file browser
[12:31] <lifeless> eject it and it unmounted
[12:32] <lifeless> mjg59: ok, I've changed the acpi default-support stuff
[12:32] <dholbach> Pygi: it didn't change much, i felt
[12:32] <Kamion> jdub: they're in the archive - do you want to review them before I accept?
[12:32] <lifeless> mjg59: I'm trying a hibernate run.
[12:32] <Kamion> source, anyway
[12:33] <Kamion> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/u/ubuntu-artwork/ubuntu-artwork_0.2.29-1.dsc
[12:33] <jdub> Kamion: ok, sec
[12:33] <Pygi> dholbach: k, so no update then?
[12:34] <dholbach> i did the update already
[12:34] <jdub> ogra_: ping
[12:34] <Pygi> dholbach: ah,kk
[12:34] <Pygi> g2g now, bye all
[12:34] <jdub> whoa
[12:34] <jdub> huh
[12:34] <jdub> this makes now sense
[12:34] <jdub> no sense
[12:36] <ogra_> jdub, ?
[12:36] <jdub> ogra_: what's the rationale for the separate package, and why should it include a separate copy of a 1.9M desktop background? :)
[12:37] <ogra_> jdub, the copy is a dummy ... it shall contain the image collection of screensaver backgrounds
[12:40] <lifeless> mjg59: so hibernate is better now
[12:41] <lifeless> mjg59: it came back up but failed to load the bios modes
[12:41] <lifeless> mjg59: for the 915 driver
[12:41] <lifeless> it didn't take the 15 minutes this time, dunno why.
[12:44] <mjg59> lifeless: Upgade 915resolution
[12:44] <jdub> ogra_: why a separate package?
[12:44] <lifeless> mjg59: restarting X seems to have fixed it
[12:44] <lifeless> mjg59: ok. Will do.
[12:44] <ogra_> jdub, because it might get huge in the future and we'll probably make it only recommended ...
[12:45] <jdub> ogra_: so it won't be a depends of ubuntu-desktop?
[12:45] <pitti> sjoerd: do your recent dbus commits fix the hang of h-device-mgr?
[12:45] <ogra_> jdub, for now it will ...
[12:46] <ogra_> jdub, but if it grows to big for the CD we can easily remove it there ...
[12:46] <jdub> Kamion: how are we doing for CD space?
[12:46] <sjoerd> pitti: afaik that's still not fixed :(
[12:46] <pitti> sjoerd: hm, ages ago j5 said that he had a patch to commit to fix that :(
[12:49] <sjoerd> pitti: Robot101 should know a lot more about dbus internals then me, so maybe he knows what's going on with that issue :)
[12:52] <sivang> Kamion: tryreadlines() is the non blocking reading method?
[12:53] <Kamion> jdub: not very comfortably
[12:53] <Kamion> sivang: yes
[12:54] <Kamion> obviously if you need non-blocking output as well then it gets rather harder, since you might not manage to output everything you want at once
[12:58] <sivang> Kamion: I was hoping to be able to propogate the spawned child's stdout, and when it says on stderr "Please swtich to slice #X" to re.match it and propogate to the client code. I have this code already working, it's just that when my function matches this in stderr, it yeilds back (being a generator) to the caller, where the caller sys.stdin.readline()'s. at this point the caller's user CRs, and then it appears you need varying number of CRs to 
[01:00] <sivang> hmm, I'm now thinkign of making stderr and stdout add up in the same buffer form the spanwner POV, then process only one buffer
[01:05] <Kamion> perhaps your caller is just not flushing its output after writing to it
[01:05] <jdub> Kamion: so 8MB would make your hair stand on end?
[01:06] <Kamion> jdub: definitely
[01:06] <Kamion> and I should hope it'd make ogra's hair stand on end too, given that Edubuntu is the worst-off for space
[01:06] <jdub> Kamion: hrm, not much hope for a screensaver images package then, i reckon
[01:07] <infinity> pitti: Thanks for the PNG transition uploads, dude.
[01:07] <Kamion> dexem: please don't set milestones on bugs ... we'll do that at developer's / release team's discretion
[01:07] <pitti> no problem
[01:07] <jdub> Kamion: are you counting current example-content size?
[01:07] <pitti> infinity: gnome-panel will be done by seb128, the rest of main should be settled
[01:07] <Kamion> jdub: I'm trying not to think about it
[01:08] <Kamion> jdub: I also haven't looked at sizes since example-content landed. However, before that I had to remove a bunch of language packs to get us within size.
[01:08] <infinity> pitti: Rock.
[01:08] <Kamion> 20/30MB worth of language packs in some cases
[01:08] <viviersf> infinity, i put a new script into the casper dir , now the initramfs is giving problems, any idea why ?
[01:09] <infinity> viviersf: Define "giving problems"...
[01:09] <viviersf> ok well lemme explain
[01:09] <viviersf> live cd sais : mounting root fs
[01:09] <viviersf> after putting my script
[01:09] <jdub> ogra_: dude, i don't think there's much hope for screensaver images, unless we co-opt a bunch of crap we're already installing (which could include example-content)
[01:09] <viviersf> it hangs at that script
[01:09] <viviersf> just doesnt do anything
[01:10] <pitti> infinity: is the new pkgstriptranslations (22) already installed into the buildd chroots?
[01:10] <lifeless> mjg59: its up to date already
[01:11] <Kinnison> pitti: the chroots upgrade themselves as part of the build process
[01:11] <infinity> pitti: If it's in the archive, the chroots upgrade automatically.
[01:11] <Kinnison> pitti: so once it was built and in the archives, the chroots started using it
[01:11] <lifeless> mjg59: tried again and its still leaving X uphanppy
[01:11] <pitti> Kinnison: cool; even if it is permanently installed?
[01:11] <infinity> (For better or worse)
[01:11] <pitti> that's great anyway
[01:11] <infinity> pitti: Yeah, at the beginning of the build, a dist-upgrade is done.
[01:11] <viviersf> infinity, you understand the problem ?
[01:12] <ogra_> jdub, its one of my feature goals ... mark wanted a possibility to push image collections as screensaver backgrounds *shrug*
[01:12] <pitti> Riddell: can you please do a no-change upload of amarok to build with newer pkgstriptranslations? with the previous version we didn't get translations
[01:12] <Kinnison> infinity: actually you and I should try and pick a time to coordinate updating the chroots to reduce the buildd times
[01:12] <ogra_> jdub, you were at least at one of the BOFs we held about it 
[01:12] <infinity> viviersf: I guess I'd need to see what your script does, and where you're putting it. And preferably not when I'm supposed to be going to bed.
[01:12] <infinity> Kinnison: Yes, we need to play with the chroot tool some more and make sure I can do it myself on a whim.
[01:12] <jdub> ogra_: we're screwed for room - that doesn't mean we can't do it either off the CD (recommended) or if we want at least something on the CD, co-opting other images already on the disk
[01:12] <viviersf> ok 
[01:12] <Kinnison> infinity: aye
[01:12] <infinity> Kinnison: I'll need to be able to mangle them to make sure they're lean and light, etc.
[01:12] <viviersf> whats the time there infinity ?
[01:13] <dexem> Kamion: sorry for that :P
[01:13] <Kinnison> infinity: can we coordinate a time to play next week?
[01:13] <jdub> ogra_: i'm definitely not saying "let's not do this at all" :)
[01:13] <Kinnison> infinity: It'd be worth getting cprov to sort out a newer version of the launchpad-buildd package too, I did a couple of fixes to it last week
[01:13] <infinity> viviersf: 23:13
[01:13] <infinity> Kinnison: Please.
[01:13] <mjg59> lifeless: Can you check that you have /etc/acpi/resume.d/915resolution?
[01:14] <viviersf> infinity, kewl ill bug you with it 2moz
[01:14] <infinity> Kinnison: I need to get some fixed committed for sbuild before we roll out a new package.
[01:14] <infinity> Kinnison: s/fixed/fixes/
[01:15] <ogra_> jdub, i'm aware of the space problems (edubuntu is way worse) including the images in the artwork package itself would be silly, thats why i split out that package ... i doubt that the images we ship in there need to be super high quality, since they are only background for visual +effects ...
[01:15] <lifeless> /etc/acpi/resume.d/49-915-set-resolution.sh
[01:15] <lifeless> its hardcoded for the resolutions I need, which unlike the 915 package are set on all three bit-depths
[01:15] <jdub> ogra_: i don't believe we have space on the CD for these images at all. we do have other options.
[01:15] <lifeless> I filed a bug in debian but it got closed without fixing it. :(
[01:16] <Kinnison> infinity: Sure, either punt them to me or cprov in a mail
[01:17] <mjg59> lifeless: Is it executable?
[01:17] <ogra_> jdub, i freed up 5MB recently with screensaver changes ... it would be nice if i could have at least a minor amount of that back for the screensaver
[01:17] <lifeless> mjg59: yes
[01:17] <lifeless> 755 root root
[01:17] <mjg59> lifeless: Hm. That should be running on resume, then.
[01:17] <jdub> ogra_: haha :)
[01:17] <jdub> ogra_: you know one of the stages of grief is bargaining, right? ;-)
[01:18] <infinity> Kinnison: I need to write them first (It's on my TODO for tomorrow after the meeting), so I can punt then. :)
[01:18] <jdub> BenC: ping
[01:18] <fabbione> infinity: ping?
[01:18] <fabbione> bah you are here
[01:19] <mjg59> lifeless: If you chuck set -xs in the appropriate places, can you try to figure out what's going on?
[01:19] <Kamion> ogra_: having some of the 5MB back is fine, but it has to be not in 2MB chunks
[01:19] <fabbione> infinity: mind if i upload initramfs? i need mptsas and mptfc in hook-functions
[01:19] <Kamion> 100KB chunks or thereabouts would be more like it ...
[01:19] <lifeless> mjg59: I'll chuck that in resume.sh
[01:20] <ogra_> Kamion, i'll try how much i can compress any images ... only one pic would also be fine for now, simply to not have the ugly tv test screen by default
[01:20] <Kinnison> infinity: okies
[01:22] <Kinnison> pitti: I have a translations question
[01:22] <Kinnison> pitti: gnome-power-manager has some more UI which I added in its glade files
[01:22] <Kinnison> pitti: does pkgstriptranslations automatically end up with those for translating?
[01:22] <Kinnison> pitti: Or do I need to run some command in the source package first?
[01:23] <jdub> ogra_: i'll be doing a new u-a today, so i'll sort something out for that too
[01:23] <infinity> fabbione: I suspect we just want everything from kernel/drivers/message/fusion/, don't we?  Since I keep getting asked for "just one more".. :)
[01:23] <mjg59> Kinnison: Suggestion: if sleep type when inactive is "Do nothing", don't show the sliders for it?
[01:23] <fabbione> infinity: probably.. mptsas and mptfc are required on sparc...
[01:23] <fabbione> infinity:  i can't speak about the others
[01:23] <Kinnison> mjg59: I'd rather make them insensitive
[01:23] <infinity> fabbione: Let me mangle the list here a bit.
[01:24] <Kinnison> mjg59: having UI appear/disappear confuses people
[01:24] <fabbione> infinity: ok
[01:24] <ogra_> jdub, ok, if you dont want an extra package, please link the default background to /usr/share/backgrounds/screensaver/ that should do it for a start
[01:24] <fabbione> infinity: i won't touch it than
[01:24] <Kinnison> mjg59: Please file a bug so I remember to address it
[01:24] <fabbione> infinity: but please wait a sec before you upload
[01:24] <mjg59> Kinnison: Oh, "When laptop lid is closed:" "When battery power critical"
[01:24] <ogra_> jdub, thats at least still better than the tv screen ...
[01:24] <mjg59> Either add an "is" or lose one
[01:24] <jdub> ogra_: i do want separate pacakge, rationale was good - though i might do it as a separate source package
[01:24] <ogra_> jdub, ah, ok ...
[01:25] <Riddell> pitti: ok
[01:26] <dholbach> mjg59, Kinnison, ogra_: do you have a laptop-power-something-team on launchpad, which i could subscribe to bug reports?
[01:26] <fabbione> infinity: ok... test successful 100%. please upload when you can :)
[01:28] <ogra_> dholbach, Kinnison and me are default subscribers to all g-p-m bugs
[01:29] <dholbach> ogra_: i was just thinking about stuff like libpam-foreground or the hibernate-patch in gdm, etc
[01:30] <lifeless> mjg59: ok, it *is* setting the resolution
[01:30] <infinity> fabbione: Kay, uploaded.
[01:30] <lifeless> mjg59: but X is still getting fucked
[01:30] <fabbione> infinity: danke
[01:31] <lifeless> mjg59: I redirected output from the resume.d scripts to /tmp/foo
[01:31] <lifeless> mjg59: and its all there
[01:41] <pitti> re
[01:42] <pitti> Kinnison: depends; the added translation must find its way into the pot file
[01:42] <pitti> Kinnison: does g-p-m use cdbs+gnome.mk?
[01:42] <pitti> Kinnison: if so, the pot file is updated automatically at build time
[01:42] <Kinnison> pitti: yes it does
[01:42] <Kamion> mpt: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/espresso-location.png
[01:42] <Kinnison> pitti: any way I can check that?
[01:42] <pitti> Kinnison: then it shuold work OOTB
[01:42] <pitti> Kinnison: yes, the build log should contain 'intltool-update' and mention the pot file
[01:43] <pitti> Kinnison: and after the build, the new string should be in po/g-p-m.pot
[01:45] <Kinnison> pitti: I shall look when I've finished my lunchtime legal wrangling
[01:45] <pitti> keeeeybuuuk
[01:45] <Keybuk> pitti: that won't make my nick hilight work :P
[01:46] <pitti> (just kidding :) )
[01:46] <mpt> Kamion, cool
[01:46] <mjg59> lifeless: And you need to restart X to get it back?
[01:47] <mpt> Kamion, that top bar's just for debugging, right?
[01:47] <Keybuk> pitti: what's up?
[01:47] <pitti> Keybuk: well, I had to modprobe pcsprk again to get beeps
[01:48] <pitti> pcspkr, too
[01:48] <pitti> deja vu :)
[01:48] <Keybuk> heh
[01:48] <Keybuk> unsurprising, nothing causes that to get loaded
[01:49] <pitti> Keybuk: I think it's only since today; after yesterday's dist-upgrade probably
[01:49] <Kamion> mpt: it's a leftover from Guadalinex
[01:50] <Keybuk> I have an interesting one here, the PC Speaker works and generates beeps
[01:50] <Kamion> mpt: I'm undecided on it; I can see the advantage of having some indication of where you are in the process
[01:50] <Keybuk> quite literally, from the PC Speaker in the case
[01:50] <Keybuk> my old PC used to beep on the soundcard
[01:50] <Keybuk> so it's verrrrrry quiet
[01:50] <Keybuk> which, frankly, is great in the morning when I have to mash the keyboard to get vim to do my bidding ;)
[01:52] <mpt> Kamion, if there was a list of steps, it should probably be vertical, but I don't think it's necessary at all
[01:52] <Mithrandir> mpt: it's a kind of progress bar and something I _absolutely_ think we should have.  Not knowing the number of steps is annoying.
[01:53] <mvo> is adding a "mp3 support" meta-desktop-file in gnome-app-install that installs gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly a problem from a legal point of view? 
[01:55] <mpt> Mithrandir, part of the point of having assistants in general is that it helps you avoid unnecessary steps, which means that the number of steps varies depending on your early choices. That the number of steps is constant for this particular assistant is unusual.
[01:55] <Kamion> the number of steps is not constant
[01:56] <Mithrandir> mpt: the breadcrump path shows phases, not steps.
[01:56] <Kamion> although the current top bar collapses the non-constant steps into single chunks (namely the partitioner)
[01:57] <mpt> Mithrandir, you just said, "not knowing the number of steps is annoying" :-P
[01:57] <mpt> but even the assistant can't know, until it's partway through the partitioning questions
[01:57] <Kamion> people don't care exactly which page number they're on, they care approximately how much further they have to go
[01:57] <Kamion> an indication of the list of phases is a good indication of that
[01:57] <mpt> sure, that's the reason for the "... about five minutes" on the first page
[01:58] <Kamion> which is a pointless lie
[01:58] <Kamion> we have absolutely no clue how long the CD will take to do its thing
[01:58] <Mithrandir> mpt: well, knowing how far you've come, then.
[01:58] <Kamion> although, ok, it does say "answering the questions", not "the installation"
[01:58] <mpt> exactly
[01:59] <Kamion> but I'm still unconvinced; manual partitioning will take people a lot longer to set up than automatic partitioning
[01:59] <mpt> in which case that phase will take much longer than all the others
[01:59] <Kamion> yeah, but they'll know from the progress indicator that it's the last thing they have to do before installation
[02:01] <Kamion> people using the advanced partitioner will generally have seen something like that before, and will expect it to involve a few steps
[02:01] <Kamion> they won't necessarily know that it's the last thing to do
[02:01] <Kamion> which I do contend is useful information
[02:02] <mpt> Well, if you do keep some sort of progress, I'd prefer it be "Step x of y" text in the bottom left corner
[02:02] <Kamion> ok, that would certainly be doable
[02:02] <mpt> using the "phase" meaning of step, rather than the "click" meaning
[02:02] <Kamion> yeah
[02:02] <Kamion> Mithrandir: happy with that?
[02:03] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I still prefer the breadcrumbs, but I could live with it, yes.
[02:04] <Mithrandir> the steps aren't evenly-sized so enumerating them makes sense.
[02:04] <Kamion> ok, added to UbuntuExpress/ToDo
[02:04] <Kamion> thanks mpt
[02:26] <janimo> Keybuk, you know a way of finding out which processes hold refs to a certain loadable module?
[02:27] <janimo> something a la lsof
[02:27] <Keybuk> processes don't hold refs to modules ... ?
[02:27] <Keybuk> module refs are just in-kernel things, usually the devices and other modules and stuff
[02:27] <ogra_> janimo, check with lsof for open devices and find the udev rule for the device :)
[02:28] <janimo> I tried lsof on the sound devices but no procs there
[02:28] <Keybuk> other then /sys/module/$MODULE/refcnt there's no real tracking of it
[02:28] <janimo> but thanks
[02:30] <ogra_> Kamion, there is a edubuntu-docs package in NEW ... i have already a better version on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ can you review this one for NEWing and wipe 0.1-1 ? 
[02:31] <Kamion> ogra_: can you just upload 0.2-1? it's easier for me to review when it's actually in the queue
[02:31] <ogra_> yup, will do ... didnt want to upload without asking
[02:31] <Kamion> no, that's fine
[02:31] <Kamion> 0.1-1 will just be superseded then
[02:32] <ogra_> oki, uploading ...
[02:40] <lifeless> mjg59: yes
[02:43] <mjg59> lifeless: Do you get /any/ display back?
[02:46] <BenC> jdub: pong
[02:48] <jdub> BenC: do you know of anyone testing on sun amd64 galaxy boxes (even someone internally)?
[02:48] <BenC> no
[02:49] <BenC> I got a /msg from someone about it about 3 minutes ago, but they don't appear to be alive anymore
[02:49] <BenC> 30 minutes ago I mean
[02:49] <BenC> sun amd64 are Opteron's, correct?
[02:50] <jdub> yeah
[02:50] <jdub> BenC: was that davekempe?
[02:50] <lifeless> mjg59: 640x480ish bright muave rectangle
[02:50] <BenC> jdub: yeah, did he talk to you?
[02:50] <mjg59> lifeless: Hmm.
[02:51] <jdub> BenC: he's a sydney dude, talk to him a lot
[02:51] <mjg59> lifeless: Very weird. What does switching to a console do?
[02:51] <jdub> BenC: they just got one - wondering if we had any more dedicated testers
[02:51] <jdub> BenC: when's kernel freeze?
[02:51] <lifeless> 640x480 console... what I'm typing in now
[02:51] <mjg59> lifeless: And switching back to X?
[02:51] <lifeless> funky display comes back
[02:51] <BenC> jdub: kernel is pretty much "not going to change unless it has to" right now
[02:51] <BenC> I would expect sun-smd64 to just work though
[02:52] <mjg59> lifeless: Running 915resolution again and switching back?
[02:52] <lifeless> no diff
[02:52] <mjg59> lifeless: Ok, so certainly not a 915resolution thing. Hmm.
[02:52] <mjg59> lifeless: Anything in the X log?
[02:52] <lifeless> mjg59: well when I first tried 915 resolution, a similar behaviour occured.
[02:53] <lifeless> until I had it set to run on unsuspend
[02:53] <lifeless> I'll check the log
[02:53] <mjg59> Right
[02:53] <jdub> BenC: has some panics and so on at boot, for various driers
[02:54] <BenC> if you talk to him again before I do, just have him send me the dmesg
[02:54] <jdub> BenC: ok
[02:54] <lifeless> mjg59: no nothing
[02:56] <mjg59> lifeless: Right.
[03:09] <spacey> for filing a bug with the espresso install stuff on the livecd. What package should i file the bug on? just espresso? espresso-frontend-gtk ?
[03:10] <Mithrandir> espresso, probably
[03:11] <spacey> k
[03:11] <spacey> i'll just do that
[03:11] <lifeless> mjg59: should I file a bug 
[03:21] <seb128> Kamion, pitti: gnome-vfs2 has been splitted to get a -bin and a -extra to Debian, I'm syncing it now (breaks circular Depends and allow to get extra stuff shipped with -dbg), is that ok if I update the desktop seed to list -bin and -extra?
[03:21] <pitti> sure, ok for me
[03:24] <Keybuk> *sigh* today I mostly hate uncooperative users who seem to feel that providing you with debugging information is a chore, and you should just psychically know what's wrong with their system and fix it
[03:25] <seb128> pitti: cool, doing that now :)
[03:26] <pitti> Keybuk: 'use the force, Luke' :)
[03:26] <doko_> dholbach, seb128, anybody who has a printer: please could check the OOo test packages?
[03:27] <seb128> my printer is kind of broken atm
[03:27] <seb128> it does some "motor forcing on something blocked" noise
[03:28] <kbrooks> I want to build a LiveCD based on Ubuntu, that includes all of the Python goodies.
[03:28] <seb128> I've planned to have a look on it later, but not now
[03:28] <kbrooks> But how do I do this?
[03:29] <dholbach> doko_: i'll download an check when i'm back, ok?
[03:29] <kbrooks> *pokes everyone*
[03:30] <dholbach> kbrooks: look on the wiki
[03:30] <kbrooks> dholbach, do  you have a link to this wiki page
[03:31] <doko_> dholbach: better download while you're away
[03:31] <dholbach> no i'd have to search myself - it's something about livecd and customization
[03:31] <dholbach> doko_: yes
[03:31] <dholbach> doko_: i386 only I suppose
[03:32] <doko_> dholbach: yes
[03:32] <dholbach> hrm ok
[03:32] <ploum> hello
[03:32] <seb128> lu ploum
[03:33] <ploum> For a few weeks, I experience a random mouse-click freeze in dapper
[03:33] <ploum> The click is not responding on my mouse anymore
[03:33] <ploum> and the workaround is to type a shortcut key (for exemple switch desktop key) and that's all
[03:33] <seb128> check the mouse cable? :)
[03:34] <seb128> do you have the click event to xev when that happens?
[03:34] <ploum> seb128: :p   as a keystroke solve the problem, I'm not sure it's a hardware bug
[03:35] <ploum> seb128: it's very difficult because it must happen with a xev already openend !  (as the keystroke solve the problem)
[03:35] <seb128> ploum: run an xev on every desktop until that happens next time :p
[03:35] <ploum> but it's really strange how a simple button not responding make you feel that your desktop is completely crashed !
[03:35] <ploum> seb128: I will try
[03:35] <ploum> I was just asking if someone saw it
[03:36] <seb128> I had some such bug
[03:36] <ploum> to be sure I'm not crazy
[03:36] <seb128> but I think my desktop was really not responding
[03:36] <seb128> like disk access blocking
[03:36] <seb128> because keyboard didn't unblock it for me
[03:36] <seb128> and I think alt-f2 was not opening the run app dialog
[03:37] <ploum> not the same indeed
[03:38] <ploum> here's, it's very strange because a random keypress will not solve the issue. It must be a shortcut !
[03:38] <ploum> If I can find more informations, I will fill a bug
[03:38] <seb128> "shortcut"?
[03:38] <seb128> like alt-F2?
[03:38] <ploum> yes
[03:39] <ploum> or Ctrl+alt+arrow
[03:39] <ploum> (I never tried alt-F2)
[03:39] <ploum> if you ever hear someone complaining about something similar, please let me know
[03:41] <seb128> ploum: will do
[03:41] <ploum> thanks :-)  have a good day
[03:42] <seb128> ploum: you too! :)
[03:46] <mjg59> lifeless: Best to
[03:55] <JaneW> can anyone answer this enquiry I have "My question is whether ubuntu is going to make xgl the default interface when you install ubuntu."? tyia
[03:55] <jdub> ogra_: i'm going to do an artwork upload without the screensaver stuff
[03:55] <jdub> JaneW: "not yet"
[03:55] <Kinnison> JaneW: "Not for dapper, no"
[03:56] <JaneW> jdub/ Kinnison : thanks.
[03:56] <jdub> ogra_: and sort that out as a separate package
[03:56] <ogra_> jdub, oki
[03:56] <jdub> JaneW: "... and every time someone asks, a kitten dies"
[03:57] <JaneW> jdub: hrm... so how many are down now? *efg*
[03:57] <Treenaks> JaneW: they're almost extinct
[03:57] <jdub> JaneW: they're calling it "kitten flu"
[03:57] <JaneW> LOL
[03:58] <Keybuk> jdub: are there any kittens left?
[03:58] <mvo> Riddell: konsole dosn't have a Comment field in it's desktop file anymore (and some other kde apps seem to have lost them too). is there a reason for this?
[03:59] <zul> 3
[03:59] <JaneW> no way
[03:59] <seb128> 1 kitten is better than a pony
[03:59] <JaneW> 300 at least
[03:59] <JaneW> rats are better ;)
[03:59] <Treenaks> JaneW: you used to snort kittens?!
[04:00] <JaneW> seb128: zut allors!
[04:00] <seb128> lol
[04:00] <seb128> "alors" :)
[04:00] <JaneW> sorry
[04:00] <zakame> ooh kittens
[04:00] <JaneW> Treenaks: I have been trying to give them up
[04:06] <Keybuk> bah, I want half-hour-days back again
[04:06] <jdub> Keybuk: not in eastern europe.
[04:07] <Keybuk> hour-long-days means I have to actually build packages myself, and can't just wait for them to show up in updates
[04:07] <Kinnison> Keybuk: So do I
[04:07] <jdub> ukranian children were forced to down thousands of kittens when nat friedman presented XGL at solutions linux in france
[04:07] <Kinnison> Keybuk: It's possible that the faster db server may let us go to half-hour days
[04:08] <Keybuk> Kinnison: btw, spec approved
[04:08] <jdub> i just uploaded ubuntu-artwork_1 ;-)
[04:09] <Kinnison> Keybuk: thanks
[04:09] <Kinnison> Keybuk: did you update lp?
[04:09] <Keybuk> Kinnison: I did
[04:10] <Keybuk> btw, why doesn't gpm have a "Power Off" option for low battery?
[04:10] <Keybuk> it just had Suspend and Hibernate last time I looked
[04:10] <mjg59> Keybuk: It does
[04:10] <Keybuk> oh
[04:11] <mjg59> "When battery power critical: Shut down"
[04:11] <Keybuk> I clearly wasn't looking hard enough :)
[04:12] <Keybuk> hey haggai 
[04:12] <Kamion> Keybuk: BTW, I keep forgetting to mention it, but when I debootstrap dapper at the moment I end up with /var/lock and /var/run still being mounted in the chroot after debootstrap finished
[04:12] <Kamion> finishes
[04:12] <seb128> quick opinion question
[04:12] <haggai> hi Keybuk 
[04:12] <seb128> evolution-data-server has a collection of libs, if you would do a -dbg variant, would you make a -dbg by binary package or an evolution-data-server without all the debug stuff?
[04:13] <Kamion> this is suboptimal; is there anything that can be changed in sysvinit to avoid that (e.g. don't mount /var/{lock,run} if in a chroot, which would also be useful when upgrading a chroot) or should I just make debootstrap umount them?
[04:13] <seb128> s/without/with
[04:13] <ogra_> Kamion, i noted the same ...
[04:13] <Keybuk> Kamion: oh, interesting
[04:13] <Keybuk> is there any easy way to tell you're in a chroot?
[04:14] <Keybuk> or, more pointedly, running under debootstrap?
[04:15] <Kamion> you should never special-case debootstrap; the case of upgrading a chroot is often just the same, and arguably more annoying
[04:15] <Kamion> do you use invoke-rc.d?
[04:16] <Keybuk> no ...
[04:16] <Keybuk> the initscript itself does the mounting
[04:16] <Kamion> what calls the initscript?
[04:16] <Keybuk> because it's the only way to ensure the user gets moved over to /var/run-as-tmpfs properly
[04:16] <Keybuk> uh s/initscript/postinst/
[04:16] <Kamion> oh
[04:16] <Keybuk> otherwise you end up with a /var/run underneath the /var/run tmpfs which is full of crap :)
[04:16] <Kamion> hm, ok, arse
[04:17] <Kamion> I'll just make debootstrap umount those then
[04:17] <Keybuk> it's a breezy-dapper upgrade issue
[04:17] <Keybuk> I'm not sure why it's happening on a fresh install though
[04:17] <Riddell> mvo: "CVS_SILENT replaced Comment= with GenericName= if the comment is shorter 30 characters"
[04:17] <Keybuk> that's probably not necessary
[04:17] <Riddell> curious
[04:17] <Kamion> oh, yeah, making it not happen on a fresh install would do the trick
[04:18] <Keybuk> on a fresh, we just have to make sure we mkdir /var/run /var/lock after alerting the user to the three-headed monkey standing behind them
[04:18] <Keybuk> (assuming they have /var mounted as a different filesystem)
[04:18] <mvo> Riddell: would it be possible to undo that change? gnome-app-install uses that data as a short discription
[04:19] <Riddell> mvo: not easily, what does it use the GenericName for?
[04:19] <mvo> Riddell: it dosn't use it at all, I could fall back to it when I get nothing from Comment 
[04:20] <mvo> Riddell: I guess that would be easiest
[04:20] <Keybuk> Kamion: done
[04:23] <Manny> hi :)
[04:23] <Manny> herzi hi
[04:23] <seb128> hey Manny
[04:24] <Riddell> mvo: running gnome-app-install I get an error  gobject.GError: Icon 'gnome-settings-default-applications' not present in theme
[04:24] <Manny> seb128 my brother had big problems getting his win partitions mounted. He had to poke with fstab and such. Is there anything planned for unpainifying this? :)
[04:24] <seb128> Manny: GetRideOfWin? :)
[04:25] <Manny> maybe the gst disk manager should support more options :/
[04:25] <Manny> i.e. it should be a bit more smart about user mounts
[04:25] <seb128> yeah, the gst disk manager could use some work
[04:25] <Manny> seb128 nice proposal. Not very practical when you have win32-only specialized software running unter wine
[04:25] <Manny> s^running^ not running^
[04:25] <seb128> but that would be a rather an installer issue imho
[04:25] <seb128> win partitions should be added to fstab (dunno if it does atm)
[04:26] <seb128> Kamion?
[04:26] <herzi> Manny: can you confirm http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=323969
[04:26] <mvo> Riddell: some apps (like konsolesu) don't even have a genericname ?
[04:26] <Manny> seb128 windows was installed afterwards. Also assume possible repartitioning.
[04:26] <Ubugtu> gnome2 bug 323969 in Window List Applet "Buttons could look a bit better in transparent mode" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[04:26] <seb128> Manny: ah, windows installed after is a special case already :)
[04:26] <mvo> Riddell: about the error, this should be in the gnome-icon-theme IIRC, can you please put the compolete backtrace to a pastebin?
[04:28] <seb128> mvo: it's a part of gnome theme, so your theme has to Inherit=gnome
[04:28] <Manny> herzi nope
[04:30] <Riddell> mvo: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/568619
[04:30] <Riddell> I do have gnome-icon-theme installed
[04:30] <seb128> Riddell: does your GTK theme inherit from gnome theme?
[04:30] <seb128> ups
[04:30] <seb128> icon theme I mean
[04:30] <glatzor> we can use "try:" to load the icon
[04:31] <glatzor> mvo: 
[04:31] <seb128> or you can put an icon to "hicolor" :)
[04:31] <Riddell> no idea, I presume it's just set to default
[04:31] <Riddell> I don't have any file called gnome-settings-default-applications installed
[04:31] <Riddell> oh wait, yes I do
[04:31] <glatzor> Riddell: i will fix this
[04:32] <mvo> Riddell: do you have gnome-icon-theme installed?
[04:32] <seb128> mvo: having it installed will not help if your icon theme doesn't inherit from gnome icon theme
[04:32] <Riddell> mvo: yes
[04:32] <Riddell> how do I find out my gnome icon theme?
[04:32] <seb128> you need a setting manager to apply it
[04:33] <seb128> gnome-settings-daemon or xfce do that
[04:33] <seb128> dunno what KDE does with the icon theme
[04:33] <seb128> I guess the icon theme is not desktop specific
[04:33] <seb128> which theme do you use for KDE?
[04:33] <Riddell> crystal
[04:33] <mvo> seb128: hm, I call gtk_icon_theme_get_default() to get the icon theme ...
[04:34] <glatzor> seb128: haven't the gnome icons moved from hicolor to gnome lately?
[04:34] <seb128> Riddell: putting Inherits=gnome to /usr/share/icons/crystal/index.theme should fix the issue
[04:34] <seb128> glatzor: they did
[04:34] <seb128> mvo: which will return nothing if your theme doesn't inherit from GNOME icon theme
[04:34] <seb128> mvo: the icon is stored to /usr/share/icons/gnome
[04:35] <seb128> that's not a standard fallback, which is hicolor
[04:35] <Riddell> seb128: it doesn't (and I don't see why gnome apps would be using crystal anyway)
[04:35] <mvo> *grumpf*, ok
[04:35] <seb128> Riddell: that's why it doesn't find the icon
[04:35] <seb128> the icon should be stored to /usr/share/icons/hicolor
[04:35] <seb128> so every theme list it
[04:35] <Riddell> yes
[04:36] <seb128> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=330061
[04:36] <Ubugtu> gnome2 bug 330061 in general "some applications are broken by the icons move from hicolor to gnome" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[04:36] <Riddell> although an app shouldn't crash just because it can't find an icon
[04:37] <Riddell> in my opinoin
[04:37] <trappist> realplayer used to do that to me
[04:38] <mvo> Riddell: sure. if you are interessted in runing g-a-i for testing, just remove that line (until I do the next upload)
[04:38] <seb128> Riddell: that is a bug for sure
[04:38] <mvo> i would be interessted it crashes on the next icon as well :)
[04:38] <glatzor> Riddell: mvo: seb128: It won't crash anymore if you merge from me. :)
[04:40] <glatzor> seb128: should we copy the icon to hicolor? or set gnome as fallback of the fallback theme hicolor :)
[04:40] <seb128> the first would be a workaround, the second would be ugly
[04:40] <mvo> Riddell: could you please test what effect removing that line has?
[04:40] <seb128> not sure, I'm going to mail the GNOME lists about that now
[04:41] <Riddell> mvo: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/568647
[04:41] <Riddell> setting gnome as a fallback from hicolour would be evil
[04:44] <trappist> bug 23018 has been fixed for some time but nobody's closed it.
[04:44] <Ubugtu> malone bug 23018 in iptables "libipt_recent is not there" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/23018
[04:44] <mvo> so this clearly sucks, because there is no generic "{kde,gnome,IdontCare}-other" icon
[04:44] <mvo> it looks like g-a-i needs to ship it's own falback 
[04:45] <Riddell> well, yes
[04:46] <Riddell> every app needs to have a hicolour icon
[04:49] <Keybuk> seb128: it'd be really nice if file-roller could actually suggest a program to run
[04:52] <dooglus> gaim crashes every time I try to connect to ICQ.  what is the recommended way of getting a patch applied to fix it?
[04:52] <dooglus> I attached a patch to the relevant Malone bug, but that didn't help.
[04:53] <seb128> Keybuk: yep, it should use the same list as nautilus right click, I agree
[05:01] <Kamion> Manny: we made Windows partitions be automounted in breezy, but there is one bug that means it doesn't happen under certain circumstances
[05:01] <Kamion> I'll look at fixing that for dapper
[05:03] <mjr> set nls to utf8 as well?
[05:04] <Manny> Kamion using pmount? :)
[05:04] <Manny> i.e. how does it work?
[05:07] <Keybuk> Manny: old fashioned "put them in /etc/fstab"
[05:07] <Manny> Keybuk at what time, and using what code? :)
[05:07] <Keybuk> at install time, in partman
[05:07] <Manny> Keybuk ah, ok
[05:07] <Keybuk> then then get mounted at boot time, using mount
[05:07] <Manny> yeah.
[05:08] <Manny> s computer
[05:08] <Manny> Keybuk I'd be very fond if we implemented something pmount-related, i.e. really user-space powered :)
[05:08] <Keybuk> what would be the point?
[05:08] <Keybuk> that sounds like a solution looking for a problem
[05:09] <jdub> plus fuse and friends
[05:09] <Keybuk> jdub: uh, pmount does support those things?  it just calls mount, after all
[05:10] <Keybuk> pmount is just a setuid wrapper for calling mount on removable devices
[05:10] <Keybuk> there's no magic in there
[05:11] <jdub> policy magic!
[05:11] <jdub> speaking of pmount and magic
[05:11] <jdub> it is PITTI THE GREAT
[05:11] <Keybuk> BERPITTI!
[05:12] <Keybuk> jdub: btw. how do I fix the fact I can't watch most of my porn at the moment?
[05:12] <Manny> Keybuk you can
[05:12] <Keybuk> it's all in wmv format, and those damned windows dlls are 32-bit
[05:12] <Manny> Keybuk oh :/
[05:13] <jdub> Keybuk: xine
[05:13] <jdub> Keybuk: totem-xine, rather
[05:13] <Keybuk> jdub: xine doesn't seem to, nor does the gstreamer ffmpeg plugin
[05:13] <Manny> Keybuk wmv3 doesn't work. Sad but true, nowadays most PureTNA porn is distributed in wmv3 :/
[05:13] <jdub> all of my porn works FINE
[05:14] <Keybuk> jdub: would you like some of mine to try? :)
[05:14] <infinity> Obviously, you need DivX porn.
[05:14] <jdub> Keybuk: pia would ;)
[05:15] <Keybuk> I guess I could just install the 32-bit mplayer packages
[05:17] <pitti> jdub: pmount?
[05:17] <jdub> pitti: you're going to have to come up with a new trick ;)
[05:18] <HiddenWolf> Do we really want to know about other people's tricks? ;)
[05:18] <pitti> jdub: samba mounts in pmount?
[05:18] <pitti> jdub: the pmount-uber-alles spec was defered :)
[05:19] <jdub> pitti: yeah. we were just chatting about it.
[05:20] <Keybuk> meh, answering the question "I know this file is open, is it open for WRITING?" is difficult
[05:21] <mdke> Kamion, what does the package installation-guide do?
[05:21] <seb128> sorry to ask again. But does having a evolution-data-server-dbg with the debug version of all the libs from libe* binaries seems a good idea or wrong to you?
[05:22] <pitti> seb128: can't hurt :)
[05:22] <pitti> seb128: is that a package you get many crash bugs for?
[05:22] <seb128> pitti: my question is probably not clear
[05:22] <Kamion> Manny: we discussed using pmount and decided it was a bad idea, because it would require weakening pmount's policy
[05:23] <seb128> Package: evolution-data-server
[05:23] <seb128> Binary: libcamel1.2-dev, libegroupwise1.2-9, libedataserverui1.2-6, evolution-data-server, libebook1.2-dev, libedataserver1.2-7, libedata-book1.2-2, evolution-data-server-dev, libecal1.2-3, libedata-cal1.2-dev, libedataserver1.2-dev, libecal1.2-dev, libegroupwise1.2-dev, libedata-book1.2-dev, libebook1.2-5, libexchange-storage1.2-1, libcamel1.2-8, libexchange-storage1.2-dev, libedataserverui1.2-dev, libedata-cal1.2-1
[05:23] <seb128> pitti: that's e-d-s
[05:23] <Kamion> Manny: (the pmount author and I came up with the design)
[05:23] <Kamion> mdke: it doesn't do anything, it's documentation :)
[05:23] <seb128> pitti: my question is I should do a collection of small -dbg or an evolution-data-server-dbg for the list of stuff
[05:23] <seb128> s/is/is if
[05:23] <Kamion> mdke: it's the d-i installation manual
[05:24] <LaserJock> mdke: yeah, I had to look that up too ;-)
[05:25] <pitti> seb128: oh, I'd prefer one package then, easier to handle
[05:25] <pitti> seb128: but I guess you should have the final word in this :)
[05:25] <ideafix> whats the difrence betwen installing from expresso versus the regular install iso ?
[05:25] <Chipzz> seb128: which of these packages get used by gnome-panel?
[05:25] <Chipzz> seb128: (clock applet to be more specific)
[05:26] <mkde> Kamion, sorry not sure if you replied or not to my question, i lost my internet connection
[05:27] <Chipzz> s/panel/applets/
[05:27] <ideafix> whats the difrence betwen installing from expresso versus the regular install iso ?
[05:27] <Kamion> mkde: 16:23 < Kamion> mdke: it doesn't do anything, it's documentation :)
[05:28] <Kamion> 16:23 < Kamion> mdke: it's the d-i installation manual
[05:28] <Kamion> ideafix: ideally, nothing, in practice, espresso still gets several things wrong
[05:28] <mkde> Kamion, is it applicable to ubuntu now?
[05:28] <Kamion> mkde: yes
[05:28] <Kamion> it has significant modifications
[05:29] <Kamion> it's also the only documentation I'm aware of that goes through our current preseeding provisions in any detail
[05:29] <ideafix> so will live cdrom become the default instal media for ubuntu ?
[05:29] <Kamion> ideafix: if espresso gets finished in time, yes
[05:29] <Chipzz> seb128: some people may not want evolution to be installed, and trying to debug clock applet for example... but I guess that doesn't make much sense since evolution is installed by default and you would have to remove it
[05:29] <mkde> Kamion, a user suggested we publish it on the internet, any thoughts?
[05:29] <ideafix> nicwe
[05:29] <Kamion> ideafix: the traditional installer will continue to be available though
[05:29] <ideafix> why ?
[05:29] <Kamion> mkde: we definitely should, but I haven't figured out where to do that yet; I'd like there to be http://www.ubuntu.com/doc/ with unpacked versions of our packaged documentation available
[05:30] <Kamion> ideafix: because espresso will not fulfil everyone's use cases
[05:30] <Kamion> it will be totally inappropriate for installing servers, for instance
[05:30] <mkde> Kamion, help.ubuntu.com?
[05:30] <Kamion> it is not designed to be all things to everyone
[05:30] <Kamion> mkde: fine if it can be set up to automatically publish things from the archive
[05:31] <seb128> Chipzz: I don't really care about such a modularity for people wanting to debug
[05:31] <seb128> Chipzz: that's enough a special case to force them to download a few meg
[05:31] <ideafix> why Kamion ?
[05:31] <mkde> Kamion, it probably can, but in any case, the archive doesn't change significantly once a release is stable right?
[05:31] <xxenon> in dapper, is mp3 support still provided by gstreamer0.8-mad ?
[05:32] <ideafix> can you get the live cd to do package seletions ?
[05:32] <Kamion> ideafix: think about it - it's installing by copying the contents of the live filesystem
[05:32] <Kamion> ideafix: no, not easily at all
[05:32] <Kamion> a server install shouldn't have all that stuff installed, only the base system
[05:32] <Chipzz> seb128: my thoughts weren't about megs, but about pulling in extra packages... but that's all they were, just some thoughts ;)
[05:32] <Kamion> mkde: no, but I want the development version to be published as well
[05:32] <LaserJock> Kamion: but should we just link to the debian documentation that we haven't changed anything? DNMG for example
[05:32] <seb128> Chipzz: -dbg are here to be handy for common users
[05:32] <Kamion> LaserJock: sure, no reason not to
[05:33] <seb128> Chipzz: if you are a space disk and depends maniac you can build your debug package yourself :)
[05:33] <mkde> Kamion, at the moment we publish development things at doc.ubuntu.com, we could set that up too
[05:33] <ideafix> Kamion mabet you could make the live cd to use netinstall from repos and make package seletion availble that way 
[05:33] <Kamion> ideafix: not really interested sorry, the traditional installer is better for that
[05:33] <Kamion> mkde: that would be good
[05:34] <Kamion> ideafix: we also don't have time to make espresso do everything
[05:34] <mkde> Kamion, ok i'll take a look at the package. as long as the xml works, it should be easy to do
[05:34] <ideafix> i dont think that would be very dificult 
[05:34] <Kamion> mdke: it's built into binary packages, so it should do
[05:34] <ideafix> i could be wrong 
[05:34] <Kamion> ideafix: as the person who's maintained the Ubuntu installer for the last year and a half, I beg to differ
[05:36] <ideafix> isnt ther a ubuntu netinstall iso ?
[05:36] <ideafix> like debian has 
[05:36] <Kamion> it is very much non-trivial, particularly given that espresso is designed along totally different lines
[05:36] <Kamion> ideafix: there's a netboot iso
[05:37] <Kamion> we've never got round to building a netinst as such (i.e. installer plus base system), but the netboot mini.iso should suffice
[05:37] <mkde> thanks Kamion, I'll let you know how I get on
[05:37] <ideafix> so the difrence betwen expresso and regular install iso arent that trivial ...
[05:37] <Kamion> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
[05:37] <Kamion> ideafix: correct
[05:38] <Kamion> espresso uses much of the code from the traditional installer (as much as I can), but it's not quite so simple as "run d-i with pretty frontend"
[05:38] <Kamion> even though that's the basic theory
[05:38] <Riddell> Kamion: espresso broke my debconf http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/568716, any ideas how to fix?
[05:38] <ideafix> wouldnt be too dificult to get the netinstall iso stuff into expresso 
[05:38] <Kamion> ideafix: yes, it would be difficult.
[05:38] <ideafix> ??!?!
[05:38] <Kamion> Riddell: you have another process running using debconf somewhere else; find it and kill it
[05:39] <ideafix> all have to take your word for it then 
[05:39] <infinity> Kamion: Though, if we get around to doing filesystem overlays (allowing us to have a base filesystem, with ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-live overlaid on it), doing a server install from espresso wouldn't seem terribly far-fetched.
[05:39] <Kamion> ideafix: we're going round in circles, and I'm afraid I don't have time to explain the design of espresso from the ground up
[05:39] <ideafix> i would like to know the out line 
[05:39] <Kamion> sorry, the day of feature freeze isn't the best time to ask :)
[05:40] <Kamion> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress may help
[05:40] <ideafix> ok thankx 
[05:40] <infinity> ideafix: Espresso doesn't install packages (like a netinst, or a traditionally installer does), it copies over the contents of the livecd's filesystem, and reconfigures it.
[05:40] <xxenon> !restricted
[05:40] <xxenon> how do I get mp3 support in dapper ?
[05:40] <infinity> ideafix: Doing than, then removing most of the packages (to get to a server install) would be VERY painfull.
[05:40] <infinity> s/painfull/painful/
[05:41] <ideafix> infinity i think i hade figured that much 
[05:41] <Riddell> Kamion: I'm pretty sure I don't have any other process using debconf
[05:41] <Kamion> also, espresso intentionally simplifies some things that desktop users generally don't need but server installs do
[05:41] <Kamion> Riddell: well, debconf thinks you do
[05:41] <Kamion> Riddell: (and it's generally right)
[05:41] <ideafix> i just dream abaut every linux distro isos being live and install sources at the same time 
[05:42] <tepsipakki> what time is the DL for UVF?
[05:42] <Kamion> not everyone wants that
[05:42] <infinity> ideafix: It'll happen sometime, perhaps, but not for dapper.
[05:42] <Kamion> if you're installing 2000 machines, you don't want to waste time booting a live filesystem on all of them
[05:42] <ideafix> how do you do it ?
[05:42] <infinity> (OEM installer, whee)
[05:42] <Kamion> let us have our installers that work for us, and you can have the installer that works for you. :)
[05:42] <Kamion> rather than trying to take away the installer that works for us
[05:43] <ideafix> you have to boot something from cdrom
[05:43] <Kamion> ideafix: er, no - PXE boot
[05:43] <ideafix> or use pxe ?
[05:43] <Kamion> see the installation manual :)
[05:44] <pitti> mvo: did you update the desktop file in g-a-i? (there's no changelog entry)
[05:44] <ideafix> Kamion it would be easy to add an pxe install boot to the expresso boot menu 
[05:45] <Kamion> ideafix: no it wouldn't, we don't have space on the CD
[05:45] <ideafix> hummm
[05:45] <Kamion> please please *please* stop saying "it would be easy to ..."
[05:46] <Kamion> it's immensely frustrating
[05:46] <pitti> Keybuk: sysvinit and you have a real argument, haven't you? :)
[05:46] <ideafix> sorry
[05:46] <ideafix> i just thought it made sence
[05:47] <Kamion> I don't mind discussing wishlists, but I don't like being told that things are easy when they aren't
[05:47] <ideafix> what about it would make sence to have a pxe boot entry in expresso boot menu ? :)
[05:47] <ideafix> ok 
[05:47] <Kamion> well, who would use it?
[05:48] <Kamion> why put in a CD to PXE boot? :-)
[05:48] <ideafix> im not pestering you with it anymore 
[05:48] <Kamion> the whole point of PXE booting is that you don't need a CD
[05:48] <Keybuk> pitti: today, yes
[05:48] <ideafix> some bios dont have pxe boot 
[05:48] <Kamion> in practice nobody wants to install on 2000 of such machines
[05:49] <Kamion> if you're doing a large deployment, you generally have reasonably appropriate hardware for it
[05:50] <ideafix> i thinkl most IBM machines have pxe boot 
[05:50] <Kamion> most modern systems do
[05:50] <jsgotangco> new machines generallly hvae it
[05:50] <ideafix> so i can use pxe boot to install ubuntu across the internet ?
[05:51] <Kamion> please see the documentation
[05:51] <jsgotangco> ideafix: the manual on the cd has setup for such deployments
[05:52] <Manny> jdub I just asked on gnome-vfs-list :)
[05:52] <jdub> Manny: about?
[05:53] <Manny> jdub pmount windows mounts
[05:53] <Kinnison> mjg59: almost finished the patch to g-ss to make it notice coffee keypresses
[05:53] <Manny> oh, and the nfs module probably will be resurrected :). Somebody worked on it.
[05:53] <ideafix> ive read that the UN is endorsing open source and linux any idea what distro they are suporting ?
[05:53] <jdub> Manny: oh, i see.
[05:53] <Kamion> ideafix: this is a development channel; please take general conversation elsewhere
[05:53] <mjg59> Kinnison: Rad
[05:53] <Kamion> #ubuntu-offtopic or sounder@lists.ubuntu.com would do
[05:58] <ideafix> A user wishes to use the live CD with the intent of installing the system immediately. They should be able to select a CD boot option which immediately launches the installer.
[05:58] <ideafix> thats what i meant 
[05:58] <ideafix> after all its an expresso goal
[05:59] <infinity> ideafix: There's just not enough room on the CD (nor enough hours in the day) to implement that as it's written.
[05:59] <ideafix> and the install can do network instal cant it ?
[05:59] <infinity> ideafix: Can you please let it drop?
[06:00] <Keybuk> seb128: gtk bug for you ... totem appears to need me to hit "next" for every damned track
[06:00] <pitti> seb128: confirmed
[06:00] <ideafix> i think you can put has much has 2 gigas on the live cdrom 
[06:00] <seb128> ie? it stops after reading one?
[06:00] <ideafix> thats lots of space 
[06:00] <Keybuk> after it plays one yeah
[06:00] <seb128> is that playing a CD? or do you call "track" a playlist entry?
[06:00] <Keybuk> have two mp3s in play list, it finishes first one and doesn't play the second
[06:01] <pitti> seb128: same for movies
[06:01] <seb128> does it do that if you have, let's say 10 entries to it?
[06:01] <Keybuk> ....
[06:01] <Keybuk> yup
[06:01] <Kamion> ideafix: our live CD images are ALREADY just about at the limit of their available space.
[06:01] <seb128> k
[06:01] <Kamion> please let it drop
[06:01] <Keybuk> and if shuffle
[06:02] <Kinnison> mjg59: flip me, even if it doesn't work, gs-listener-dbus.c just compiled
[06:04] <Kinnison> mjg59: flip-me-harder the code works
[06:05] <Kinnison> mjg59: after a judicious "sudo setkeycodes cc 152", pressing my acpi lock button causes the screen to blank and lock
[06:06] <Keybuk> grr @ kernel ... it describes the FIBMAP ioctl as "legacy", but doesn't say what to use instead
[06:06] <Kinnison> Keybuk: legacy?!
[06:07] <Kinnison> Keybuk: my trick was to look at what lilo used
[06:07] <Keybuk> don't suppose you still have your code around?
[06:07] <Keybuk> it got expunged from the readahead package by tollef
[06:08] <Kinnison> naah, but a hoary source package would have it
[06:10] <Keybuk> yeah, you just use FIBMAP too
[06:10] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: what code?
[06:11] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: old file ordering ... it may have been Thom
[06:11] <Keybuk> when we switched from readahead to readahead-list
[06:11] <Kinnison> Keybuk: FIBMAP was probably not deprecated in hoary days
[06:11] <Mithrandir> oh, that wasn't me. :-)
[06:11] <infinity> seb128: Are you deep in FeatureFreezePanicMode right now, or would you like to look at a (possible) pango bug for a sec?
[06:11] <Kinnison> Keybuk: I could download a kernel source and start poking around but you've probably already got one to hand
[06:11] <mjg59> Kinnison: Rock
[06:11] <Keybuk> there doesn't seem to be anything to replace it
[06:11] <infinity> seb128: If the former, I'll catch you in a day or two.
[06:11] <Keybuk> I think they've just deprecated it because they think it's scary
[06:12] <Kinnison> mjg59: 2.13.91-0ubuntu2 accepted for the next archive cycle
[06:12] <seb128> infinity: no real feature freeze panic, GNOME has feature freezed some time ago
[06:12] <mjg59> Kinnison: Ta!
[06:12] <seb128> infinity: I'm under UI freeze presure, but I've 2 weeks for that :)
[06:12] <Kinnison> mjg59: amusingly the same vsn nr as g-p-m currently
[06:12] <seb128> infinity: ie: feel free to ask
[06:12] <infinity> seb128: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mozilla-thunderbird/+bug/31325
[06:12] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31325 in mozilla-thunderbird "New build crash" [Normal,Needs info]  
[06:12] <Kinnison> mjg59: We've now got two things blocked on you getting that kernel patch accepted
[06:13] <Kinnison> mjg59: also we really need to pick a keycode for the battery event and get acpi-support and hal updated
[06:13] <infinity> seb128: Turns out that enabling pango in Tbird gave this guy instant crashes... Removing the font I saw in his strace (he's sent me the .ttf file out-of-band via email) magically made it happy again.
[06:13] <infinity> seb128: I haven't the first clue where to start debugging "pango hates a font" issues.
[06:14] <seb128> infinity: usually that is "attach the font to an upstream bug with a way to reproduce and let them fix it" :)
[06:14] <Kinnison> jeepers people are taking this feature-freeze thing seriously :-)
[06:15] <Kinnison> a gajillion uploads today so far
[06:15] <seb128> infinity: do you have a backtrace of the crash?
[06:16] <infinity> seb128: His was monumentally useless, I can probably produce a better one (if I can reproduce the crash) now that he's sent me the file.
[06:16] <infinity> seb128: Shall I just get a decent backtrace, attach it to the bug, and reassign to you/pango to deal with?
[06:17] <infinity> seb128: (The font is a Microsoft font, so I'm a bit wary of distributing it worldwide via Malone, but I have no issues linking to it off my private server or something)
[06:17] <seb128> infinity: sounds fine to me
[06:17] <seb128> infinity: could you mail me the font too?
[06:17] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: any complaints if I take on powernowd and fix some bugs? one or two are biting me :-)
[06:17] <seb128> infinity: pango has a -dbg package, but without magic, you need to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to get debug stuff
[06:18] <infinity> seb128: Yeah, I know how typical Debian -dbg packages work. ;)
[06:18] <seb128> infinity: GNOME packages are not "typical" usually :)
[06:18] <seb128> we use dh_strip on most of them and gdb figures alone where to find the debug
[06:19] <ogra> Kinnison, it *is* serious ...
[06:19] <infinity> Yeah, detached symbols are the way of the future, but I'm still familiar with the old -dbg libraries too. :)
[06:19] <Kinnison> ogra: pardon?
 jeepers people are taking this feature-freeze thing seriously :-)
[06:19] <infinity> seb128: Anyhow, I'll get a decent trace and other such things when I'm not half asleep, and forward the mess to you.
[06:19] <infinity> seb128: Thanks.
[06:20] <seb128> thank *you* for not just bouncing the bug back :)
[06:20] <Kinnison> ogra: Oh right, My phraseology wasn't quite right
[06:20] <ogra> heh
[06:20] <Kinnison> ogra: I meant that they're shoving lots in just before it
[06:20] <Kinnison> ogra: Kinda "The feature is there, now I can bugfix it into working"
[06:20] <ogra> yup, the concept works ;)
[06:21] <Kinnison> just waiting for my laptop to finish upgrading then I need to reboot
[06:21] <Keybuk> hmm, nope, even doing it your way I just get "0" from FIBMAP for every file
[06:21] <Kinnison> Keybuk: they don't expect you to use a different ioctl per fs do they?
[06:22] <Keybuk> this is just ext3
[06:22] <Kinnison> goddamn we need class actions in dpkg
[06:22] <hunger> What can I do to help debugging a suspend issue? system goes down, beeps, turns on the suspended led and comes up again.
[06:22] <mjg59> hunger: Did it ever work?
[06:23] <hunger> mjg59: Worked fine in breezy and through most of dapper.
[06:23] <mjg59> hunger: dmesg would be a good start, then
[06:23] <mjg59> After a failed suspend
[06:23] <hunger> mjg59: Didn't work at all after g-p-m was introduced (I am using kubuntu).
[06:23] <pitti> ogra: hm, wasn't gtk-qt-engine the package that was so hideously broken? I thought it should be demoted?
[06:24] <hunger> mjg59: Ah! I see a "Could not suspend device 3-1: error -16.
[06:24] <hunger> mjg59: seems to be related to hci_usb...
[06:24] <mjg59> Right
[06:25] <mjg59> That'll be because we no longer unload USB drivers
[06:25] <ogra> pitti, i'd like to see it demoted ... Riddell objected ...
[06:26] <Riddell> well, I've just never had any problems with it
[06:27] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: feel free.
[06:27] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: I was just assigned the merge bugs for it a while back, iirc
[06:28] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: okay
[06:28] <hunger> mjg59: How do I reenable unloading of usb stuff?
[06:28] <mjg59> hunger: You don't want to, since it'll break USB after resume
[06:28] <hunger> mjg59: Adding hci_usb to MODULES in /etc/default/acpi-support is not enough:-(
[06:28] <mjg59> hunger: Why not? Same failure?
[06:29] <hunger> mjg59: Yeap. looks like other modules depend on it.
[06:29] <mjg59> hunger: How so?
[06:29] <hunger> mjg59: Like usbcore:-(
[06:29] <mjg59> hunger: Uh. No.
[06:29] <mjg59> Other way round, perhaps
[06:29] <hunger> mjg59: Aehm... you are right... its the other way round:-)
[06:29] <mjg59> But hci_usb just provides bluetooth support
[06:30] <hunger> mjg59: I am using bluetooth.
[06:30] <mjg59> hunger: Right. 
[06:31] <mjg59> hunger: If you unload it now, does suspend work?
[06:31] <hunger> mjg59: rmmod fails since the module is in use.
[06:32] <mjg59> hunger: Interesting.
[06:33] <mjg59> hunger: Now you need to find out why it's in use :)
[06:33] <hunger> mjg59: Guessed that:-(
[06:34] <hunger> The nice thing is that my Bluetooth mouse doesn't work in dapper anymore either:-(
[06:34] <hunger> So suspend is broken for a mouse that does not even work.
[06:36] <hunger> jdub: Install breezy... BT works there like a breeze.
[06:38] <jsgotangco> jdub: yeah dude my phone has this bluetooth presentation thing i couldnt figure it out myself...sigh
[06:38] <hunger> jdub: With breezy I just had to get my laptop close enough to my mouse for it to work.
[06:39] <jsgotangco> it just sees it and it works?
[06:39] <jdub> jsgotangco: do i have to get extra software on my phone?
[06:39] <jdub> mice/keyboards are a different case altogether
[06:39] <jsgotangco> jdub: i dunno, i use a high-end SE and its already there
[06:40] <kbrooks> well
[06:40] <jdub> i have a sony/ericsson t630
[06:40] <kbrooks> i'd like to make ubuntu (dapper+1) easier
[06:40] <Keybuk> Kinnison: weird, appears to be a 64-bit thing
[06:40] <Keybuk> works fine on i386
[06:41] <kbrooks> well
[06:41] <kbrooks> i'm looking at the IdeaPool
[06:41] <Kinnison> Keybuk: Hmm, you are passing the right types in to get the results back?
[06:41] <kbrooks> and i want a screen that pops up on every startup: "Welcome to Ubuntu"
[06:42] <kbrooks> with some pointers to commonly used applications in Ubuntu
[06:42] <Kinnison> Keybuk: /msg me the code in question so I can have a quick peek
[06:42] <Keybuk> Kinnison: dunno, I think so
[06:42] <Keybuk> now I'm just getting weird things happen
[06:42] <kbrooks> there?
[06:42] <kbrooks> ANYONE
[06:42] <kbrooks> talk.
[06:42] <Kinnison> kbrooks: an attitude like that will get you /ignored
[06:43] <jsgotangco> jdub: mine is a k600i and it has "Remote Control" under Entertainment and there's a "Presenter" application
[06:43] <jdub> kbrooks: why interrupt the user's exploration by getting in their way of the (beautiful, discoverable, lovely) desktop system?
[06:43] <hunger> mjg59: Managed to remove that module (need to turn of BT via the keyboard). suspend works fine without the module.
[06:43] <kbrooks> Kinnison, i want feedback on my idea. :)
[06:43] <Kinnison> kbrooks: and I want all my bugs fixed and someone to give me a million dollars
[06:43] <kbrooks> jdub: it wouldnt be full screen.
[06:43] <Robot101> Kinnison: and a pony!
[06:44] <jdub> kbrooks: it would still be an interruption
[06:44] <Kinnison> kbrooks: you punted out a desire and then waited less than two minutes for a busy bunch of developers to say anything
[06:44] <jdub> kbrooks: read the GNOME HIG about startup wizards
[06:44] <mjg59> hunger: Ok
[06:44] <kbrooks> jdub, URL on there?
[06:44] <mjg59> hunger: That gives us a good starting point :)
[06:44] <kbrooks> jdub, and this isnt a startup wizard.
[06:44] <jdub> kbrooks: google
[06:44] <jdub> kbrooks: it's the same principle
[06:44] <kbrooks> jdub, some people dont know that you can add folders 
[06:44] <jdub> jsgotangco: bummer, don't have one of those
[06:44] <kbrooks> or files
[06:45] <jdub> kbrooks: dude. you're looking at a general purpose pc. there are limitless things you can do.
[06:45] <kbrooks> some people don't know that there are applications waiting to be used.
[06:45] <kbrooks> ... and so on.
[06:45] <kbrooks> yes, very true.
[06:45] <jsgotangco> kbrooks: that's why there's documentation :)
[06:45] <jdub> best solved by getting out of their way so they can dive right in and discover
[06:46] <hunger> mjg59: Updating my bugreport on the issue right now so this is not forgotten before someone manages to fix the issue:-)
[06:46] <kbrooks> jdub, how about some links that users can get to?
[06:47] <kbrooks> jdub: i dont see any section on wizards here: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/
[06:48] <jdub> jsgotangco: oh, it seems it turns up in connectivity -> accessories if there's a device to talk to. i will have to make one. ;)
[06:48] <kbrooks> point me to it please
[06:49] <jsgotangco> kbrooks: its best to go to gnome irc than here
[06:50] <kbrooks> jsgotangco, ...
[06:52] <hunger> ~.
[06:52] <hunger> Wow... BT mouse works again...
[06:52] <hunger> Recharging batteries sometimes works wonders:-)
[06:54] <jsgotangco> hmm kdebluetooth is in main but gnome-bluetooth isn't oh well
[06:54] <hunger> mjg59: You know what is curious? Now that suspend worked once I can suspend over and over again without unloading hci_usb
[06:55] <mjg59> hunger: Odd.
[06:56] <kbrooks> "Ubuntu should come with a 'tour' of the distro for first time users (especially first time users of linux), that will get people on their first foot. showing them howto setup the distro, What on earth some things mean (note; root means nothing to my mum, telling her to sudo would help no-one) and where to look for more information. Could easily be achieved with a short series of HTML pages with images or a small program designed for this. A
[06:56] <kbrooks> lso should automatically open on the first install. People should not have to look up on the Internet to find out how to do basic things. -- Gord Allott"
[06:56] <mjg59> Kinnison: Patch sent, keycode query submitted
[06:56] <kbrooks> i wonder.
[06:56] <kbrooks> uhoh.
[06:56] <Kinnison> mjg59: rock
[06:56] <kbrooks> jdub: ^^^
[06:56] <kbrooks> jdub, note: "should open on the first install"
[06:57] <jdub> kbrooks: random pastes from the wiki don't convince me
[06:57] <kbrooks> jdub, many people have asked for this already
[06:58] <jdub> many people think eating whales is a good idea
[06:58] <jsgotangco> rotfl
[06:58] <kbrooks> jdub, crazy metaphor.
[06:59] <jdub> we're going to have tourish things in the installer
[06:59] <jdub> during copying
[07:00] <jdub> that's a good start
[07:00] <kbrooks> jdub, tourish things?
[07:00] <Kinnison> infinity: the usplash_down crud... the first TERM signal message doesn't get through to it on my laptop so it sits there for ages before it gets going with no visible progress
[07:00] <kbrooks> jdub, well, i will get the cd AGAIN
[07:00] <kbrooks> jdub, i'll install it as a dualboot and blog about dapper
[07:00] <kbrooks> i hope i can...
[07:01] <jdub> for most applications, and indeed the entire desktop, i'm not convinced that a tour like thing is going to be better than just making the whole thing Just Work, be discoverable, etc.
[07:01] <kbrooks> jdub, does dapper or breezy include gparted?
[07:01] <jdub> both
[07:01] <kbrooks> no. bundle.
[07:01] <jdub> kbrooks: this is a developer channel - you're best off asking support questions in #ubuntu
[07:01] <infinity> Kinnison: That TERM message isn't sent to usplash at all.  I can hack up sysvinit to make it do so... But that's why I currently have it at least give you a "shutting down, please wait" thing.
[07:01] <jsgotangco> jdub: don't forget example content! :)
[07:01] <jdub> jsgotangco: exactly - that's a rocking way forward
[07:01] <Kinnison> infinity: right
[07:02] <infinity> Kinnison: OTOH, it's a bug that that bit of sysvinit is taking as long as it is (it never used to), so I'd rather just fix THAT.
[07:02] <kbrooks> jdub, what is "example content"?
[07:02] <Kinnison> infinity: I guess that'd be better :-(
[07:02] <Kinnison> infinity: it really does take ages
[07:02] <infinity> Kinnison: Yeah.  It should only take a second or two.  And some reboots, it does.  Others, it takes almost a minute here.
[07:02] <Kinnison> infinity: indeed
[07:02] <infinity> Kinnison: That behaviour is definitely recent (broke around January, maybe?), and is clearly buggy.
[07:03] <Kinnison> interesting. Even without telling compiz to do cube, it does it
[07:20] <pitti> Riddell: amarok translations.tar.gz is back \o/ and it looks good now
[07:20] <Riddell> pitti: great, thanks
[07:21] <Riddell> hello enrico, don't think we've seen you in here before 
[07:21] <enrico> Riddell: hello!  I've been around for more than a year :)
[07:22] <enrico> not very active indeed, but around
[07:22] <enrico> I mainly sniff the traffic for magic keys
[07:22] <enrico> say, "debtags" :)
[07:32] <sivang> enrico: dude!
[07:32] <Treenaks> uh-oh.. it's dude-o-clock
[07:35] <Keybuk> mvo: grub has lost its bar background colour
[07:35] <Keybuk> was that your bad?
[07:36] <Burgwork> dholbach, can I bug you to package gimmie?
[07:36] <dholbach> Burgwork: we'll have feature freeze in some minutes
[07:36] <Keybuk> infinity: splashdown doesn't seem to work past the K scripts
[07:36] <pitti> Kamion: would I disturb your bzr or anything if I uploaded an espresso package with X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain= in the .desktop file?
[07:36] <dholbach> Burgwork: which is final dead line
[07:36] <mvo> Keybuk: just remove the splashimage line from /boot/grub/menu.lst, we don't do it for dapper
[07:36] <dholbach> Burgwork: and i'd rather like the mono guys to do that one
[07:36] <Keybuk> infinity: I suspect the fact that usplash might get -TERM/-KILL up its arse by init has something to do with that
[07:36] <dholbach> (as i have no clue)
[07:36] <Keybuk> mvo: aww, but it looked so cute
[07:37] <pitti> Kamion: oh, nevermind, let's wait until espresso actually has translations in the langpacks
[07:37] <infinity> Keybuk: I noticed the same thing, and had planned to poke it with a stick after today's stress passes. :)
[07:37] <Keybuk> infinity: ok, good; looked great otherwise!  I had an "ooooh, shiny" moment
[07:37] <infinity> Keybuk: Shouldn't be too hard to eclude it from the TERM list if that's all that's hurting it.
[07:37] <Burgwork> dholbach, gimmie is python
[07:37] <infinity> exclude, too.
[07:38] <mvo> Keybuk: you liked it :) ? nice! you can get the bar back with background=800000
[07:38] <Keybuk> mvo: did nobody else like it?
[07:39] <Keybuk> how come the splashimage= line stayed, but the background= one went away?
[07:39] <mvo> Keybuk: it broke on quite a few machines. nothing that we can't fix, but to risky for dapper
[07:39] <Keybuk> fair enough
[07:39] <infinity> I found it hideous anyway.
[07:40] <infinity> had a big read screen on boot.
[07:40] <infinity> (maybe that was buggy behaviour, though)
[07:40] <mvo> Keybuk: I reverted the update-grub changes and now it things that you put the splashimage line in. but it dosn't understand about "background" so it just deltes it
[07:40] <jdub> it would be fine if we shifted the grub menu around
[07:40] <Keybuk> mvo: will it do that every time?
[07:40] <mvo> infinity: that was buggy, it didn't show a splash with "nomenu"
[07:40] <pitti> mvo: did you update the desktop file in g-a-i? (there's no changelog entry)
[07:40] <mvo> Keybuk: yes, you need to put the background line somewhere where it dosn't touch it (above)
[07:41] <mvo> pitti: yes, just forgot to mention it
[07:41] <pitti> mvo: great, thanks
[07:41] <Keybuk> infinity: I have an amusing discovery
[07:41] <Keybuk> infinity: readahead'ing modules makes things boot fast
[07:41] <Keybuk> but which modules do we pick for the default lists? :p
[07:41] <mvo> cheers, thanks for reminding me
[07:41] <infinity> Keybuk: Can we note make it dynamic?
[07:41] <infinity> Keybuk: s/note/not/
[07:41] <Keybuk> infinity: no, sadly not
[07:42] <Keybuk> on some machines it can take over a minute just to *start* the "profile the boot sequence" process
[07:42] <infinity> Keybuk: lsmod on shutdown?
[07:42] <ogra> read it on first boot
[07:42] <infinity> Keybuk: No need to profile just to get modules.
[07:43] <Keybuk> I'm just going to not care I think :)  if they want the extra 1.5s, they can always just boot with "profile" on the kernel command-line once
[07:43] <infinity> Will that also catch the modules?
[07:43] <Keybuk> yes
[07:43] <jdub> Keybuk: that is rad :)
[07:43] <infinity> Of course, you'd need to re-profile on each new kernel, unless you're clever enough to strip uname -r out of the paths and re-insert it at runtime.
[07:43] <jdub> Keybuk: maybe we should have a special grub option for that :)
[07:44] <infinity> (which wouldn't be a bad idea)
[07:44] <Keybuk> jdub: Ubuntu kernel blah blah (unroll loops!)
[07:45] <jdub> ha ha
[07:45] <kent> mvo: there should be no "splashimage.." line in grub for Dapper?  
[07:46] <mvo> kent: it was added automatcally for a couple of days (~5) but we reverted it again
[07:46] <Keybuk> jdub: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/bootcharts/quest-dapper-20060223-2.png
[07:46] <infinity> Keybuk: Anyhow, if you're looking for default modules ot add to readahead, I don't think there are too many modules loaded on every system which aren't also in the initramfs (and we don't readahead in the initramfs), so you lose.
[07:46] <mvo> kent: if it works for you you can obviously keep it :)
[07:46] <Keybuk> infinity: aye, that's very true
[07:47] <Keybuk> infinity: you don't *need* to readahead the initramfs ... it's already in ram :)
[07:47] <kent> mvo: well, it seems to work. I just noticed that I had it in there,  and I run dapper.  :)
[07:47] <infinity> Keybuk: Yes, I just mean "you lose on getting to pick 'common modules'"
[07:47] <mvo> kent: it won't be removed automatically 
[07:51] <jdub> dholbach: good attempt at refocusing on u-d
[07:52] <dholbach> jdub: merci beaucoup :)
[07:52] <Keybuk> anyway, now I just have to make this work on seb's machine
[08:24] <HiddenWolf> seb128: do you know if ross burton does irc?
[08:29] <Kinnison> I've been playing with Xgl on and off, and currently am suffering from an amusing issue
[08:29] <Kinnison> anyone know how to get emacs to start under Xgl?
[08:29] <Kinnison> anyone suggesting 'emacs -nw' will be summarily executed
[08:30] <sivang> Kinnison: why it says undefined color black? :)
[08:31] <Kinnison> sivang: that's the issue, yes
[08:31] <infinity> You didn't need black anyway, did you?
[08:31] <Kinnison> infinity: for emacs to start? yes
[08:31] <Kinnison> :-(
[08:31] <Treenaks> Kinnison: Xgl is compiled with the wrong path to rgb.txt
[08:31] <Kinnison> Treenaks: aah
[08:31] <Treenaks> Kinnison: start Xgl with the right one on the command line probably
[08:32] <Kinnison> Treenaks: that might solve it
[08:32] <Kinnison> no time now, perhaps another time
[08:38] <trappist> maybe symlink to the real rgb.txt
[08:42] <jdub> ploum: ah! was jjust looking for you
[08:42] <ploum> hello jdub
[08:42] <jdub> ploum: your cleaned up cosmogotchi has a snipped shadow on the right side
[08:42] <ploum> argh
[08:43] <ploum> I didn't saw it
[08:43] <jdub> ploum: i used your last one on puc though :-)
[08:43] <jdub> ploum: if you go to fix the shadow snippage, please make the shadow a little transparent so it's not 100% black
[08:43] <jdub> ploum: then i'll update puc
[08:43] <jdub> ploum: that is one rad hackergotchi - i think mark will love it :)
[08:44] <jdub> ploum: i loved your little cartoon too
[08:44] <ploum> wow, what a bunch of flowers !
[08:45] <jdub> http://ploum.fritalk.com/cosmo_mark.png
[08:45] <jdub> ^ :-)
[08:45] <mdke> haha
[08:45] <mdke> awesome
[08:45] <fabbione> lovely
[08:47] <mdke> ploum, are those rss feeds you've got in epiphany? if so, pls explain in a /query how you do that
[08:48] <ploum> mdke: I don't understand. What rss feeds ?
[08:50] <jdub> Keybuk: they readahead changelogs are fun :)
[08:50] <Keybuk> jdub: why fun?
[08:50] <jdub> Keybuk: nice little problems and solutions
[08:53] <ploum> jdub: what size do you want for the hackergotchi ?
[08:53] <mdz> devel meeting in #ubuntu-meeting at 2000 UTC (~7 minutes)
[08:53] <Kinnison> Treenaks: Do you know how to tell Xgl where rgb.txt is?
[08:53] <pitti> hey mdz
[08:54] <Keybuk> mdz: you may find you enjoy reading LWN's kernel page today
[08:56] <jdub> ploum: current size is good
[08:57] <jdub> ploum: thjough if you've created it at a bigger size, having that would be handy too
[08:58] <JaneW> ping: BenC,  infinity, iwj, jbailey, hno73, kamion, keybuk, krstic, lathiat, mjg59, pitti, Riddell -> #ubuntu-meeting
[09:01] <ploum> jdub: http://ploum.fritalk.com/cosmogotchi1d.png is that one good ?
[09:01] <JaneW> Lathiat: ping?
[09:01] <ploum> (mm bigger, the drop shadow is not very pretty)
[09:02] <jdub> ploum: awesome!
[09:02] <ploum> well, gimp did it nearly alone
[09:04] <ploum> jdub: it would be cool to have hackergtochies in the RSS feed of puc
[09:04] <jdub> ploum: indeed
[09:04] <Kamion> pitti: what do I need to put in the .desktop file? I'll do it for my next upload
[09:05] <pitti> Kamion: X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=<domain>
[09:05] <pitti> Kinnison: e. g. = espresso
[09:05] <pitti> Kamion: ^ (sorry)
[09:05] <Kamion> do I need to create a .pot file with the right strings in it?
[09:05] <pitti> Kamion: so that langpacks can translate espresso's desktop file
[09:05] <pitti> Kamion: yes
[09:05] <seb128> HiddenWolf: he does, ross on #gnome-hackers usually
[09:05] <Kamion> that'll take a bit longer, need to set up i18n for espresso properly
[09:06] <Kamion> i.e. at all
[09:06] <pitti> Kamion: it's not that urgent, though, I can help you with that if you want
[09:06] <Kamion> I've done it before, so should be doable
[09:06] <pitti> don't worry about it for now, I just noticed it on the autogenerated list of apckages which need fixing
[09:06] <Kamion> may need to rearrange some bits
[09:06] <HiddenWolf> seb128: thank you
[09:07] <seb128> np
[09:07] <jdub> ploum: just doing it for rss2
[09:08] <Kamion> pitti: domain added to the .desktop file in bzr, will do the rest later
[09:08] <ploum> time to eat. See you saturday . thank for fixing this ;-)
[09:08] <pitti> Kamion: thanks
[09:09] <pitti> Kamion: that'll save you from fiddling with intltool-merge, too :)
[09:19] <ploum> seb128: YEAH ! I was able to reproduce my bug with xev !
[09:19] <ploum> (alt+F2 doesn't deblock my mouse)
[09:19] <ploum> and no xev event for the mouse click
[09:21] <seb128> so not a GNOME bug, pfiou :)
[09:22] <fabbione> seb128: it's not going to help you anyway :)
[09:22] <fabbione> you will still have to fix it :)
[09:23] <seb128> fabbione: xorg bugs list is not good
[09:23] <fabbione> seb128: i know.. i only have 24 hours per day
[09:23] <seb128> I had a look on bugs on "xorg" source package today
[09:23] <fabbione> i need help
[09:23] <seb128> trying to find a dup ... really not cool
[09:24] <fabbione> seb128: nothing i can do.. i did ask help in London and you guys did all step back.. so i will take it.. when i have time
[09:24] <seb128> fabbione: I've fixed startx some days ago :) But my xorg foo is not really good, I will not fix annyoing bugs alone soon probably
[09:24] <fabbione> seb128: my X input foo is not good either
[09:25] <fabbione> it's a year i  don't touch X
[09:25] <fabbione> acutally
[09:25] <fabbione> since a month after hoary release
[09:45] <Kinnison> Diziet: Do you know about ff being a bit odd and reporting an XML error in its chrome?
[09:45] <jdub> Kinnison: have you upgraded it underneath?
[09:45] <Kinnison> jdub: No, rebooted since upgrade
[09:52] <Kinnison> Diziet: http://users.pepperfish.net/dsilvers/firefox_mess.png
[09:55] <fabbione> Kamion: the problem is how pam define rtprio
[09:55] <fabbione> there are 2 ways and none of them has been defined as standard
[09:55] <fabbione> one is rtprio and one rt_prio
[09:55] <Kamion> it's in upstream CVS as rtprio
[09:55] <Kamion> upstream release, in fact
[09:55] <fabbione> also the patch that use #define is wrong
[09:55] <fabbione> it should use glibc defines ones they are there
[09:56] <Kamion> the patch in my upload? (I changed it)
[09:56] <fabbione> or it may cause issues..
[09:56] <Kamion> ok, that's true
[09:56] <Kamion> but I don't seriously think that's a big immediate issue
[09:56] <fabbione> no no
[09:56] <fabbione> it's mainly because mdz asked me to do it
[09:56] <fabbione> and i was waiting Jeff for glibcx
[09:56] <Kamion> sorry, didn't realise I was stepping on your toes
[09:56] <fabbione> i wasn't aware people started poking at it
[09:56] <fabbione> no problem dude
[09:56] <fabbione> i know what you do is 100% correct in 99.9% of the cases ;)
[09:57] <Kamion> I saw the billion mails asking about it and talked briefly to Dana Olson last night, who's one of the musicians very keen for it
[09:57] <Kamion> so I thought I'd just do it since the approach in upstream Linux-PAM seemed clear
[09:57] <fabbione> Kamion: don't worry...
[09:57] <fabbione> if you took upstream approach i am fine
[09:57] <fabbione> it was something i should have checked myself but -ENOTIME
[09:58] <fabbione> so if jb does glibc and doko bash..
[09:58] <fabbione> i am happy..
[09:58] <fabbione> i had to do nothing other reading mdz's email ;)
[09:58] <Kamion> if it's been fluctuating between upstream releases, then my bad; I only checked the most recent one
[09:58] <Kamion> which is 0.99.something, dunno if it's classed as a stable release
[09:59] <Kamion> perhaps we can support both rtprio and rt_prio if it turns out to be an issue
[09:59] <Kamion> as long as the values for those are vaguely consistent (which I think they haven't been in the past ...)
[09:59] <fabbione> yeah that was my original idea.. let see how it evolves
[10:16] <mvo> are daily cdimages mirrored somewhere? they are unbearable slow for me from cdimage.u.c
[10:17] <fabbione> doko: i did forward you the entire email with the patches for bash
[10:17] <doko> fabbione: thanks
[10:27] <jdub> and keybuk just disappeared
[10:27] <jdub> boh
[10:28] <fbn> hi, can somebody tell me what the main changes in the courier-mta package are from 0.47 (ubuntu version) to 0.52 (source version)?
[10:29] <jdub> fbn: worth reading the debian and upstream changelogs
[10:32] <fbn> jdub: Hi Jeff! Is there a way to view the debian changelogs online? packages.debian.org brings me to a 404 not found ... 
[10:32] <fbn> courier-mta upstream changelos is too technical for me ...
[10:32] <jdub> fbn: try packages.qa.debian.org
[10:32] <ogra> fbn, changelogs.ubuntu.com
[10:33] <jdub> and packges.ubuntu.com
[10:33] <ogra> fbn, packages has only the logs for releases ... it doesnt mirror the development changelogs
[10:33] <fbn> ogra: that sounds better
[10:34] <fbn> thanks to both of you! :-)
[10:37] <fbn> ah damn ... the ubuntu and debian changelogs only go up to version 0.47 ... and I need the difference between 0.47 and 0.52 *g*
[10:37] <fabbione> night everybody
[10:38] <ogra> night fabbione 
[10:53] <ploum> well, party time..
[10:53] <ploum> good night all
[10:58] <dolson> Kamion: thanks!
[11:06] <tepsipakki> anyone with main privs, could you take a look at a new version of libnfsidmap? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2019
[11:07] <tepsipakki> it should be ready to go in
[11:18] <tepsipakki> seems that everyone is understandably quite busy, or I'm too late (or both)
[11:18] <torkel> Kinnison: you can work around ff by removing the helpGetHelpOnline (and maybe helpTranslate) from content/browser/baseMenuOverlay.xul in /usr/lib/firefox/chrome/browser.jar
[11:18] <torkel> it's a zip archive
[11:20] <sivang> hmm, anybody have an idea how to add widgets on a druid page in glade?
[11:20] <sivang> it complains about no containers, but where are the container's icons int the palette ? :)
[11:52] <doko> infinity, lamont: ugh, some generic buildd problem? http://librarian.launchpad.net/1584374/buildlog_ubuntu-dapper-i386.openoffice.org_2.0.1oob680m2-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz