[08:34] <Kinnison> T-25 for meeting yes?
[08:35] <fabbione> yup
[08:52] <dholbach> Kinnison: you just have to try it to find out :)
[08:53] <ogra> dholbach, any news from lfittl wrt blender ?
[08:53] <dholbach> from lfittl?
[08:53] <dholbach> it's a sync
[08:53] <dholbach> I said I'd wait for your test results
[08:53] <mdz> everyone here?
[08:54] <mdz> JaneW: I hope you have electricity
[08:54] <ogra> dholbach, we talked, you even sent a mail that you would "sponsor his upload" 
[08:54] <Mithrandir> I'm here RSN
[08:54] <dholbach> ogra: please say "I have no objections" and I do it :)
[08:55] <ogra> dholbach, i have no objections ... as i didnt thw last time we talked :P
[08:55] <ogra> ;)
[08:55] <dholbach> mdz: seb128 will probably a few minutes late and informed JaneW beforehand
[08:55] <mvo> dholbach: hu?
[08:56] <dholbach> mvo: mdz just asked if everybody was there
[08:56] <JaneW> I am here..
[08:57] <Mithrandir> I'm here now
[08:57] <infinity> I think I'm here.
[08:58] <doko> dholbach: ?
[08:58] <fabbione> infinity: perhaps you are sleeping and the Matrix makes you think you are here
[08:58] <mdz> pinged BenC and iwj
[08:58] <infinity> fabbione: I've considered that.  I do FEEL asleep.
[08:58] <mdz> Kamion: here?
[08:58] <Kinnison> I am here, but just need to reboot, so I'll be "away" for about 3 minutes
[08:59] <ogra> Kinnison, and you think it will start again ?
[09:00] <jbailey> ogra: The silence is perhaps a "no"? =)
[09:00] <Kamion> here
[09:00] <ogra> jbailey, *giggle* ...
[09:00] <mdz> good morning all
[09:00] <JaneW> still missing BenC, lathiat, mjg59, Riddell I think
[09:00] <Riddell> I'm still here
[09:00] <JaneW> oh wait we don't need mjg59...
[09:00] <JaneW> hi Riddell 
[09:00] <ogra> JaneW, Kinnison 
[09:00] <mdz> dholbach: how late will seb128 be?
[09:01] <JaneW> mdz: he said 5-10 mins
[09:01] <mdz> ogra: Kinnison is clearly here
[09:01] <dholbach> yeah
[09:01] <ogra> mdz, i meant as mjg59 replacement :)
[09:01] <mdz> ok
[09:01] <mdz> let's begin
[09:01] <mdz> Riddell, you're up first
[09:01] <Riddell> done:
[09:01] <Riddell>  kubuntu-express: is now working up to partitioning stages
[09:01] <Riddell>  kubuntu-dapper-roadmap: flight 4 released, new kubuntu-default-settings with a lot of tweaks
[09:01] <Riddell>  kubuntu-system-tools: guidance 0.6.1 uploaded, now sets a Xft DPI
[09:01] <Riddell> specs:
[09:01] <Riddell>  langpacks-desktopfiles-kde: new pending review, likely aim for dapper + 1
[09:02] <Riddell>  kubuntu-launchpad-integration: moved target to dapper + 1
[09:02] <Riddell>  kubuntu-system-tools: still pending review by mdz (was waiting on usability report)
[09:02] <Riddell>  kubuntu-package-manager: adept-installer in, looking nice
[09:02] <Riddell> next week: kubuntu-express
[09:02] <mdz> Riddell: as of last week, none of your goals were implemented.  have any of them progressed to implemented now?
[09:02] <mdz> today is feature freeze, the DAY OF RECKONING
[09:03] <Riddell> kubuntu-system-tools and kubuntu-dapper-roadmap are implemented pending debugging
[09:03] <JaneW> none of them are implemented in LP yet...
[09:04] <mdz> Riddell: simplify-kde?
[09:04] <sivang> Keybuk: thanks :)
[09:04] <Riddell> oh ys, kubuntu-default-settings should have been under simplify-kde, so that's implemented as of this morning
[09:05] <seb128> hello
[09:05] <JaneW> hi seb128 
[09:05] <seb128> mdz: pong, sorry 5 min late ...
[09:05] <mdz> Riddell: also, there are kubuntu-related bounties outstanding, yes?
[09:05] <mdz> seb128: no problem, JaneW/dholbach passed on your message
[09:06] <Riddell> adept-installer and adept-notifier are in
[09:06] <mdz> Riddell,JaneW: sounds like the two of you should chat and arrive at a final status for each of these, as of feature freeze
[09:07] <JaneW> mdz: ok. Riddell: just say when.
[09:07] <mdz> for any partially complete specs, identify the pieces which fell out
[09:07] <Riddell> .deb installer is not yet done
[09:07] <Riddell> JaneW: yep, tomorrow morning maybe
[09:07] <mdz> sivang?
[09:07] <sivang> mdz: yes, am here
[09:07] <mdz> sivang: the reckoning is upon you
[09:08] <JaneW> Riddell: ok, ping when you are in
[09:08] <sivang> mdz: okay, I've still got work to complete the goal, I have ran into a bad IO problem that delayed completion. I would require 2 more days, if not approved, I will continue in universe.
[09:08] <sivang> mdz: (the issue is solved)
[09:09] <JaneW> Riddell: try to make it before I get the report out (before about 11:00UTC)
[09:09] <mdz> sivang: I did review your email, and while I see no reason why development should not continue past feature freeze, the decision as to whether to promote the application to the desktop must be taken today based on its current status
[09:09] <Riddell> JaneW: ok
[09:09] <sivang> mdz: then I would say it cannot be promoted today, not based on the current status. :-/
[09:09] <Keybuk> what's the spec?
[09:10] <sivang> HomeUserBackup
[09:10] <sivang> mdz: two more days would have looked differently, but today it's not ready.
[09:11] <mdz> sivang: dapper is our most conservative release so far; we need to make decisions based on known quantities, not projections
[09:11] <sivang> mdz: I understand fully.
[09:11] <mdz> ok, thanks
[09:11] <mdz> looking forward to seeing it flourish in the future
[09:11] <sivang> mdz: I will be happy with your decision, and will be happy to work to completion inuniverse. if you may find it suitable for inclusion past FF, that would rock as well.
[09:12] <mdz> seb128?
[09:12] <seb128> bug-flood: bug day, lot of bug triage and interaction with upstream. bug triage is under control but we still have quite a lot of them to actually fix
[09:12] <seb128> video-playback: implemented, mail for testing has been send to the ubuntu-devel-announce list (thanks Daniel)
[09:12] <seb128> dapper-desktop-plan: workspace switcher applet with tooltip uploaded, screenshot of session dialog change pointed by mail to mark (waiting for a reply to use the patch), investigated using a custom GTK theme for GDM theme (some changes for that went upstream after discussion with them, we may want some other small changes ... easy to do)
[09:12] <JaneW> mdz: can you make a formal comment regarding the specs in braindump - is it acceptable to shunt them straight though to implemented? Or *must* they be signed off as approved first?
[09:12] <seb128> tomorrow: will look on panel changes for dapper-desktop-plan (session menu and new support submenu)
[09:12] <seb128> .
[09:12] <seb128> next week: GNOME 2.13.92, bug fixing and triage, work on the desktop UI changes if required
[09:12] <sivang> mdz: thank you :)
[09:12] <mdz> JaneW: has to be decided on a case-by-case basis; if the spec is in braindump, that is a problem regardless of whether something was implemented
[09:13] <seb128> s/bug/bugs :)
[09:13] <mdz> seb128: is it realistic for dapper-desktop-plan to be finished tomorrow?
[09:13] <mdz> it is an essential priority spec
[09:13] <seb128> mdz: depending of what you call "finish" ... stuff like icons are missing and I'm in no way an artist
[09:13] <seb128> ie: don't count on me to design them
[09:14] <seb128> and I wait for a reply from Mark for the session dialog
[09:14] <seb128> lock or no lock
[09:14] <infinity> Icons are surely not required until the artwork freeze...
[09:14] <mdz> seb128: ok, please go over the spec with JaneW and identify a) what is complete, b) work remaining for you, c) work which is blocked on external people/factors
[09:14] <seb128> mdz: ok, will do
[09:14] <JaneW> mdz: noted
[09:14] <seb128> infinity: right, but they are part of the spec :)
[09:14] <mdz> thanks, it's a large one and we need a fine-grained review
[09:15] <seb128> agreed
[09:15] <mdz> pitti?
[09:15] <seb128> I'll mail tomorrow morning with the details for it
[09:15] <pitti> status of unimplemented specs:
[09:15] <pitti>  * langpacks-desktopfiles: DONE: fixed the majority of packages which don't use cdbs+gnome.mk; PLAN: do remaining 25ish manual package fixes, discuss the stuff with gnome/fd.o upstream
[09:15] <pitti>  * reducing-duplication: DONE: mizilla and python2.3 in universe;  PLAN: gnutls 11->12 transition for all packages but openldap; BLOCK: need help with openldap
[09:15] <pitti>  * automated-problem-reports, automatic-printer-conf, firewall: no blocks, no time, deferred to dapper+1
[09:15] <pitti> general stuff done this week:
[09:15] <pitti>  * managed to keep up with security updates (insane amount of stuff currently)
[09:15] <pitti>  * libpng3 transition for main, libpng3 source package can go as soon as seb128 uploads new gnome-panel
[09:15] <pitti>  * postgresql-common with SSL snakeoil cert support
[09:15] <pitti>  * dapper langpacks coordination and discussion; almost there
[09:15] <pitti>  * derootification of the most important hal addons
[09:15] <pitti>  * some NetworkManager-related fixes
[09:15] <pitti> general stuff planned next week:
[09:15] <pitti>  * even more security updates (I need to grab infinity for PHP and apache2)
[09:15] <pitti>  * bug fix sprint, now that FF is in effect
[09:16] <infinity> We have an apache2 update now?  Woo.
[09:16] <mdz> pitti: what are the manual fixes for langpacks-desktopfiles?
[09:16] <infinity> pitti: Mail me about that one.
[09:16] <pitti> mdz: .desktop and .server files need the gettext-domain attribute
[09:16] <pitti> mdz: cdbs' gnome.mk adds it automatically
[09:16] <infinity> As for the openldap gnutls thing, that requires actual development effort.  My quick (30 minute) attempt to port the openssl shim in London resulted in... Not much.
[09:16] <pitti> mdz: but all packages which ship a desktop file and not use gnome.mk/cdbs must be fixed manually
[09:17] <mdz> pitti: when do you estimate it can be completed?
[09:17] <pitti> mdz: 2 days maybe
[09:17] <pitti> mdz: the change is mostly trivial, though
[09:17] <pitti> just a lot of work to cope with many packages
[09:17] <mdz> can anyone assist pitti with some extra hands to churn through those remaining packages?
[09:17] <pitti> the actual code changes are pretty stable for weeks now
[09:18] <Keybuk> I can when back from Oslo
[09:18] <mdz> Keybuk: you leave sunday? how about tomorrow?
[09:18] <seb128> pitti: there is a new GNOME next week, we can update for that while uploading new versions if that makes things easier for you
[09:18] <pitti> seb128: I did all gnome stuff
[09:18] <seb128> oki
[09:18] <pitti> gnome is easy, mostly cdbs :)
[09:18] <jbailey> \o/
[09:18] <seb128> righty
[09:18] <Keybuk> mdz: can do a limited amount tomorrow, given limited connectivity, but yes
[09:19] <janimo> pitti, I'll update the xfce apps if they need this too
[09:19] <mdz> please try to finish it off by the end of the week so we can close the book on that one
[09:19] <pitti> janimo: great
[09:19] <pitti> mdz: yes
[09:19] <mdz> pitti: openldap...sounds like we may not be able to do that bit
[09:20] <pitti> right, I fear we need to keep gnutls11 just for that one
[09:20] <infinity> If I find a round tuit, I'll hit openldap harder, but I don't want to keep the old gnutls just for one app if we can help it.
[09:20] <mdz> if we need to keep it anyway, then it's not worthwhile to spend time transitioning the other packages
[09:20] <dholbach> smurf wanted to do something for the gnutls transition he told me - I can ask him wrt to openldap
[09:20] <infinity> I can try recruiting vorlon to help out (he wrote the shim in questoin that needs porting, and Debian will need to make the transition anyway)
[09:21] <mdz> dholbach: ok, get him in touch with pitti and see if he can help this week
[09:21] <pitti> external help would be appreciated
[09:21] <dholbach> ok
[09:21] <pitti> timing is important, though, I guess
[09:21] <mdz> we can offer a bounty on it if it can be done on time
[09:21] <mdz> pitti: likewise for the desktopfiles work if you can recruit someone
[09:21] <infinity> The shim is lightweight enough that it either works, or it doesn't.  So it's a no-brainer to include it if it can get done at all.
[09:21] <JaneW> pitti: let me know if you have anyone in mind... for a bounty
[09:22] <infinity> I just didn't have the time to look closely enough at it.
[09:22] <pitti> yes, will think about it
[09:22] <mdz> in any case, finalize the status on it by the end of the week, identifying any items within the spec which weren't completed
[09:22] <pitti> although we should be able to do it on our own without the bounty overhead
[09:22] <mdz> (work with JaneW on it)
[09:22] <pitti> yep
[09:22] <mdz> pitti: we are very busy :-)
[09:22] <mdz> thanks pitti
[09:22] <mdz> ogra?
[09:24] <ogra> * thin-client-memory-usage: no way to make nbd-server create swap files on the fly before feature freeze, started working on a patch to have it ready for dapper+1, apart from that (and possible improvements through including dash needs more testing for dapper+1), the spec is implemented
[09:24] <ogra> * gnome-screensaver-default-image: xscreensaver package work done, jdub wants to do the artwork related stuff
[09:24] <ogra> * general: lots and lots of ltsp merges and patch reviews, nbd swap sadly dropped not doable in time, added the missing yaboot bits, two days of heavy flight4 work, finished the screensaver package split, first edubuntu-docs package done with an initial little howto (sits in NEW)
[09:24] <ogra> * next-week: documentation and artwork package work for edubuntu, get the last bugs out of the package and use more sane defaults for the theme selector. triage my bugs. get more testing for the last ltsp merges. find out why late command in the edubuntu installer seems not to work (no ssh keys in the installed system)
[09:24] <ogra> yes ?
[09:24] <mdz> ogra: you were lagged, I guess
[09:24] <ogra> didnt my paste get through ?
[09:24] <dholbach> it did
[09:24] <ogra> ah
[09:25] <ogra> i *am* lagged 
[09:25] <mdz> ogra: screensaver is complete except for providing the set of images?
[09:25] <ogra> mdz, the package jdub wanted to care for is missing
[09:25] <ogra> but thats minor
[09:25] <mdz> what package?
[09:25] <doko> ogra: no screensaver preview?
[09:26] <ogra> he wasnt happy with me splitting out ubuntu-artwork-screensaver 
[09:26] <jdub> mdz: a pacakge for a set of screensaver images
[09:26] <ogra> mdz, i splitted it from ubuntu-artwork ...
[09:26] <jdub> ogra: more that i'd prefer it to be useful first, and a separate source package
[09:26] <ogra> seems that wasnt desired :)
[09:26] <mdz> JaneW: so we'll consider the development complete but continue to track for artwork (due by UI freeze, coordinate with silbs/jdub/etc.)
[09:26] <JaneW> mdz: ok
[09:27] <mdz> thanks ogra
[09:27] <mdz> mvo?
[09:27] <mvo> Did:
[09:27] <mvo> - default-apt-sources: implemented as described in http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DefaultAptSources (apt/aptitude/synaptic uploaded to dapper)
[09:27] <mvo> - gnome-app-install: updated to latest desktop files, added help (thanks docteam), added support for "pseudo" desktop file (eg. gstreamer plugins, severs), fix some issues with kde (theme, description)
[09:27] <mvo> - grub splash changes reverted (should we automatically undo all of it)
[09:27] <mvo> - wrote some more content for the ImproveLanguageSelector spec (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguageSelectorImprovements)
[09:27] <mvo> - dist-upgrade: latest version backported to breezy, release-notes screen more useful, supports clickable links now etc, tested upgrade (and nagged people)
[09:27] <mvo> Will do:
[09:27] <mvo> - bugfixing
[09:27] <mvo> - get the upgrade-tool tarball into the archive.u.c (currently living on people.u.c)
[09:27] <mvo> - ask for promotion of gdebi to main
[09:27] <mvo> - get the automatic-distupgrade infrastructure in place (with the help of infinity)
[09:28] <Kamion> mvo: have you tried out the installer on a non-networked machine since implementing default-apt-sources, to see if it does the right thing?
[09:28] <pitti> no grub splash? it caused too many bugs?
[09:28] <Kamion> as we discussed, it should do automatically, but needs checking
[09:28] <Kamion> pitti: right
[09:28] <mdz> pitti: correct, where "too many bugs" was "some bugs we don't know how to fix"
[09:28] <mvo> Kamion: no, not yet, only on a normal system
[09:28] <Kamion> several machines couldn't display anything
[09:28] <mvo> pitti: yes. too risky
[09:28] <mdz> mvo: third-party-packages?
[09:29] <mvo> mdz: implemented, the problem is we don't really have any that are available in a external repository
[09:29] <JaneW> mdz: are we going to track language-selector-improvements on the report?
[09:29] <mdz> JaneW: not as yet
[09:29] <mvo> mdz: the deb installer should work (gdebi) needs promotion
[09:29] <JaneW> mdz: ok
[09:29] <mdz> JaneW: but I do want mvo to think on it, given sabdfl's comments
[09:30] <mdz> mvo: anything blocking the promotion?
[09:30] <JaneW> mvo: thanks from getting default-apt-sources out of red :)
[09:30] <mvo> mdz: no
[09:30] <mdz> mvo: is release-upgrades implemented or no?
[09:31] <mdz> mvo: I don't see gdebi in anastacia
[09:32] <infinity> It's not seeded.
[09:32] <mvo> mdz: it is implemented, it's not yet on archive.u.c (because I need to talk to the lp people first)
[09:32] <mvo> mdz: sorry, gdebi is not yet part of ubuntu-desktop
[09:32] <mdz> mvo: ok, please proceed with seeding/promotion/metapackages and then update it to implemented via janew
[09:33] <mvo> mdz: will do that, thanks
[09:33] <mdz> mvo: regarding release-upgrades, if it is too complex to do the infrastructure work immediately, we can set up a separate something.ubuntu.com which provides a simple web space
[09:33] <mdz> mvo: please find out what is possible and report back via janew tomorrow
[09:34] <mdz> it is essentially complete, but we need to continue to track its deployment in production as far as infrastructure
[09:34] <mdz> thanks mvo
[09:34] <mvo> mdz: I think it should be possible to use a similar mechanism as the cd uploads
[09:34] <mdz> Mithrandir?
[09:34] <Mithrandir> misc: got up to speed on espresso development.  I feel reasonably confident in hacking around there now and the keyboard configurator is coming along nicely.
[09:34] <Mithrandir> next week: some more espresso hacking, sprint with Scott
[09:34] <Mithrandir> blocked on: nothing for next week, still haven't access to popcon.ubuntu.com
[09:34] <Kamion> Mithrandir: we need to decide what you're working on after keymap support - or you can just grab something, whatever
[09:35] <mdz> Mithrandir: congrats on having all of your targets implemented early
[09:35] <Mithrandir> mdz: thanks. :-)
[09:35] <Kamion> (as a reward, have some more targets! ;-))
[09:35] <doko> Mithrandir: ia32-* packages need updating
[09:35] <Mithrandir> doko: file bugs, assign to me, please.
[09:35] <mdz> Mithrandir,Kamion: is there still an unresolved issue regarding the keymap selection in the boot loader?
[09:35] <Mithrandir> mdz: there was a bit of confusion regarding the placement of the choice, but I think Kamion resolved that
[09:35] <mdz> Mithrandir: I think doko said oo.o2-amd64 needed attention
[09:36] <Kamion> mdz: no, I don't believe so
[09:36] <simira> Mithrandir: are you talking about "my" kbd-trouble now?
[09:36] <mdz> ok
[09:36] <Kamion> well
[09:36] <Mithrandir> mdz: as in the spec or as in the package?
[09:36] <Kamion> there is a question of whether the language choice should automatically select a keymap too
[09:36] <mdz> Mithrandir: the package
[09:36] <doko> Mithrandir: either the spec (native) or the package (i386)
[09:36] <Kamion> at present if you select the French language it immediately shifts you into the French keymap
[09:36] <Mithrandir> doko: native has been deferred as of last meeting.
[09:37] <Kamion> I'm on the fence about that, because there are some languages where multiple very different keymaps are available (e.g. French vs. French Canadian)
[09:37] <mdz> yes, native isn't there yet and we aren't in a position to push it
[09:37] <Kamion> however, it's very easy to switch the autoselection on and off
[09:37] <Kamion> (in the code I mean)
[09:37] <mdz> Kamion: sounds like something to include in a Flight announcement and ask users whether it DTRT for them
[09:37] <mdz> ok
[09:38] <mdz> thanks Mithrandir
[09:38] <mdz> JaneW: any notes from lathiat/krstic?
[09:38] <pitti> Kamion: autoselection == automatic default, or it won't even ask you for the keyboard any more?
[09:38] <mdz> it looks like avahi will need to be an optional add-on for dapper purposes
[09:38] <JaneW> nope, krystic's goal is deferred and I will mail Lathiat
[09:38] <JaneW> mdz: I have been pinging Lathiat but he is not responding (in #u-d)
[09:38] <mdz> JaneW: no need to mail him, I don't think
[09:39] <Kamion> mdz: the discussion came up after Flight 4 already, although I can mention it more clearly
[09:39] <mdz> has to be deferred at this point
[09:39] <JaneW> mdz: what's is happening with zeroconf?
[09:39] <mdz> Kamion: and no clear consensus?
[09:39] <Kamion> pitti: automatic default, but it also takes immediate effect in the boot loader
[09:39] <mdz> JaneW: deferred, we have unresolved issues and it's too late to do much about it
[09:39] <Kamion> mdz: not as yet, it's a young discussion
[09:39] <JaneW> mdz: ok I'll change the ststus in LP
[09:39] <mdz> Kamion: ok, perfect then
[09:39] <mdz> Kinnison?
[09:40] <Kinnison>  * PowerManagementConfiguration
[09:40] <Kinnison>    * Spec rewritten and approved
[09:40] <Kinnison>    * 90% implemented.
[09:40] <Kinnison>    * Remaining: Hibernate-button support
[09:40] <Kinnison>  * General
[09:40] <Kinnison>    * Fixed race condition between autologin desktop and powernowd
[09:40] <Kinnison>    * Made it so that gnome-screensaver responds to KEY_COFFEE
[09:40] <Kinnison>    * Soyuz package test set for Celso
[09:40] <Kinnison>    * Helped with launchpad rollout hiccoughs on Tuesday
[09:40] <Kinnison>  * Next week
[09:40] <Kinnison>    * Hibernate button support for gnome-power-manager (Needs FF exception in theory, or I can class it as a bugfix, there is a bug about this already)
[09:40] <Kinnison>    * Bug fixing for gnome-power-manager
[09:40] <Kinnison>    * I imagine I'll attack more of the powernowd bugs and other powermanagement
[09:40] <mdz> Kinnison: assessment of power-management-configuration with regard to The Reckoning?
[09:40] <Kinnison> stuff.
[09:40] <JaneW> Kinnison: thanks for sorting that spec out :)
[09:40] <Kinnison> mdz: as I said, 90% implemented, the remaining item is the hibernate button
[09:40] <mdz> Kinnison: can you get the hibernate button resolved tomorrow?
[09:40] <Kinnison> mdz: I can probably write support on the ferry yes
[09:41] <mdz> Kinnison: ferry?
[09:41] <Kinnison> mdz: I'm going to fosdem tomorrow, as per our previous agreement
[09:42] <mdz> Kinnison: not on StaffCalendar
[09:42] <Kinnison> mdz: I haven't hit submit yet, I've done everything else
[09:42] <mdz> I can't even keep my own schedule in my head, much less 16 others :-P
[09:43] <pitti> Hi BenC 
[09:43] <Kinnison> mdz: is the rest enough?
[09:43] <BenC> hello, sorry for being late, lost track of time working on some things
[09:43] <mdz> Kinnison: hopefully polish off power-management-configuration with a minimum of lateness, and then get cracking on bugs
[09:43] <Kinnison> mdz: Yep, I'll do that
[09:44] <mdz> Kinnison: please set up package bug contacts for appropriate stuff if you haven't already
[09:44] <mdz> Kinnison: powernowd, the laptop team, etc.
[09:44] <iwj> mdz: We seem to be running rather late ...
[09:44] <mdz> iwj: yes
[09:45] <mdz> not entirely unexpected considering the freeze
[09:45] <ogra> Kinnison, btw, i'd vote for hughsie (g-p-m upstream) for the most responsive upstream ....
[09:45] <mdz> but we'll do the best we can
[09:45] <mdz> thanks Kinnison
[09:45] <mdz> Keybuk?
[09:45] <Kinnison> mdz: Will do
[09:45] <Keybuk> streamlined-boot: written up, and marked as implemented (If I give it any more cap'n, she's gonna blow)
[09:45] <Keybuk> mountall needs a good kicking in the output dept, but Debian has exactly the same bugs so I've been opportunistically waiting for them to fix it
[09:46] <Keybuk> network-magic: changes to network manager done, and it's been moved to main; there still remains the big question of whether to put it on the CD or install by default
[09:46] <infinity> It irritates the crap out of me (I mount a LOT of filesystems on boot), so I may just fix it one day before I scream.
[09:46] <Keybuk> udev seems stable, the ifrename stuff is working perfectly, so I'm going to get rid of the _clashed debugging thing soon
[09:46] <mdz> Keybuk: we need to take a decision on that shortly
[09:47] <Keybuk> yeah, my inclination is to install by default on the LiveCD but not on in desktop
[09:47] <infinity> I use NetworkManager daily now, and I still vote for it *NOT* being in the desktop by default.
[09:47] <mdz> Keybuk: that is an excellent idea
[09:47] <mdz> Keybuk: that way we can get some testing for it and still roll it back
[09:47] <fabbione> infinity: +1
[09:47] <Keybuk> we could put it in ship
[09:47] <Keybuk> (for the real install)
[09:47] <pitti> ship++
[09:47] <Keybuk> or just leave it in suppored
[09:47] <mdz> Keybuk: let's get it on the live CD straight away
[09:48] <infinity> I'll seed it to live right now.
[09:48] <Keybuk> ok, can someone make that change ... neither data centre machines let me in right now
[09:48] <mdz> Keybuk: ideally what we want is a sabdfl-style "turn it on and see if it smokes"
[09:48] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: you still ignore stuff in /etc/network/interfaces, right?  So I should just stop generating that?
[09:48] <mdz> but adding it to the metapackages is difficult to roll back
[09:48] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: it now doesn't ignore an interface that's "auto ethX" and just "iface ethX inet dhcp"
[09:48] <Keybuk> it will ignore it if the auto is missing, it's static, or there are any other options (like wireless-essid)
[09:48] <ogra> also if the user installs with espresso it will be the default, no ?
[09:48] <Kamion> that was a GOOD chance - makes my life much easier
[09:49] <Kamion> ogra: no
[09:49] <mdz> Keybuk: if you can think of a way to get it into desktop by default and gracefully roll back, let's do that too
[09:49] <Keybuk> but yes, you could stop generating that
[09:49] <mdz> need to move on though
[09:49] <mdz> Keybuk: thanks
[09:49] <mdz> Kamion?
[09:49] <Kamion> ubuntu-express-base-system: Language and timezone pages both done (the latter using the Evolution map widget; http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/espresso-location.png), and Tollef's almost done with the keymap page. Nearly there on the major missing bits of UI!
[09:49] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: ok.  Good.  I'm writing that out.
[09:49] <Keybuk> mdz: otherwise I think all my specs are implemented :)
[09:49] <Kamion> ue-gnome-ui: I'm part-way through the "Ready to install" page; shouldn't take much longer.
[09:49] <Kamion> ubuntu-express: Unimplemented status (counting only things on the to-do list that I think come under features rather than bugs): keymap support, language pack support, some of the partitioning changes, yaboot support, half-decent localisation (text that comes from the debconf database is localised, but I need a small debconf change before I can make that apply to everything), and preseeding glue.
[09:49] <Kamion> misc: Flight CD 4, including Espresso. Bug reports have been coming in at a fairly steady trickle, mostly about dodginess in the partitioner. Quite a bit of ftpmastery (NEW wasn't quite clear by feature freeze, but it was a lot better than it was three days ago).
[09:49] <Kamion> next-week: Espresso language pack support, dealing with removing live-only packages, yaboot support; then continue with the to-do list.
[09:49] <mdz> Keybuk: please have your update typed up in advance next time :-P
[09:50] <Keybuk> mdz: I did, on the wrong machine, heh
[09:50] <mdz> Mithrandir: which of the UE todo items are on your plate now?
[09:50] <Keybuk> for some reason my MAD CRAZY madwifi-ng hack to have an ath0 and ath1 on different networks isn't playing ball this evening
[09:50] <mdz> Kamion: how is the UE test feedback from flight 4 so far?
[09:50] <Kamion> at present, only keymap, but I expect to hand off others
[09:50] <Mithrandir> mdz: I'll finish up the keyboard selector.
[09:51] <Mithrandir> mdz: after that, it's going to be next week.
[09:51] <mdz> Kamion: ok, figure with JaneW what makes sense as far as tracking your combined progress
[09:51] <Kamion> mdz: see "misc:" - mostly that the partitioner is very flaky, and known espresso-grub bugs
[09:51] <Mithrandir> mdz: but I'll coordinate with Kamion about it.  I'm sure he has a big list for me. :-)
[09:52] <Kamion> however I've not been paying a lot of attention to the bug list while there's feature work still to do
[09:52] <mdz> ok
[09:52] <Kamion> some of them will disappear naturally anyway
[09:52] <mdz> Kamion: let's have a UE heart-to-heart tomorrow or early next week
[09:52] <Kamion> right
[09:52] <mdz> thanks
[09:52] <mdz> jbailey?
[09:52] <Kamion> tomorrow's fine by me
[09:52] <jbailey>  * ToolchainRoadmapNg: Some of my testing has been stalled by support work.  I'm still aiming for a rebuild request after my sprint next week.
[09:52] <jbailey>  * Other: Same support work has stalled some of my glibc bug fixing. The critical ones are the timezone breakage and adding RLIMIT_RTPRIO.
[09:53] <fabbione> jbailey: ETA for glibc?
[09:53] <BenC> jbailey: does the kernel support RTLIMIT_RTPRIO?
[09:53] <fabbione> it's blocking bash and pam my side
[09:53] <mdz> jbailey: anything dapper-targeted that we need to know about?
[09:53] <doko> jbailey: there's one more glibc hppa fix needed
[09:53] <fabbione> BenC: from > .12
[09:53] <BenC> ok
[09:53] <doko> fabbione: you're doing the bash RTLIMIT_RTPRIO side?
[09:53] <jbailey> mdz: The timezone is dapper targetted, breaks upgrade tool.
[09:53] <jbailey> fabbione: I can do the RTLIMIT stuff in a separate upload and get it done quickly.
[09:53] <fabbione> doko: if you want do it, i am ok with it
[09:54] <fabbione> jbailey: ok
[09:54] <Kamion> fabbione: I already did the PAM RLIMIT_RTPRIO change
[09:54] <mdz> jbailey: ETA?
[09:54] <jbailey> doko: 'k.  Are we building hppa again now?
[09:54] <Kamion> it's just hacked to #define them itself
[09:54] <fabbione> Kamion: MEH no.,.
[09:54] <fabbione> Kamion: there is more than that
[09:54] <fabbione> the patch is dirty
[09:54] <doko> fabbione: please send me a patch, have an upload pending ...
[09:54] <fabbione> doko: ok
[09:54] <mvo> jbailey: I *could* do ugly hacks to work around the zimezone question, but if I can avoid it ...
[09:54] <jbailey> mdz: Before I leave for the sprint to avoid lagging it past there.
[09:54] <jbailey> mdz: So before Sunday evening.
[09:54] <mdz> JaneW: did I CC you on the RTLIMIT_RTPRIO stuff? if not, please remind me to forward you the thread
[09:54] <Kamion> fabbione: er, ok, I poked at it and it looked fine; -> #ubuntu-devel and tell me what you're on about? :)
[09:55] <mdz> jbailey: ok, thanks
[09:55] <mvo> jbailey: let me know if I can help with the tz stuff
[09:55] <mdz> iwj: next
[09:55] <JaneW> mdz: not that I can recall...
[09:55] <Kamion> I just saw the bug, I didn't know multiple other people were working on it already
[09:55] <doko> jbailey: don't know, but it makes python and perl throw bus errors
[09:55] <jbailey> mvo: Mostly it'll just be testing to make sure your upgrade tool is happy.
[09:55] <mvo> jbailey: I'm happy to do testing for you 
[09:55] <jbailey> mvo: Thanks.
[09:56] <siretart> BenC: pam needs to be patched for RTPRIO as well, the patch is really small and as attachment in malone
[09:56] <mdz> iwj: ping
[09:56] <iwj> ...
[09:56] <iwj> DefaultApplicationsFirefox: Final change for this made - turning off the `You have chosen to open ...' dialogue.
[09:56] <iwj> DefaultApplicationsFirefox: I have had some comments that this question is necessary for security, or that it is needed to sometimes allow the user to override a website to let them download a file rather than opening it.  I will be posting about this to ubuntu-devel tomorrow.  If you have an opinion, please participate there.
[09:56] <iwj> AutomatedTesting: no change to code since last report, not blocked; now planning local test build on Xen virtual machine.
[09:56] <iwj> AutomatedTesting: piuparts looks like it doesn't really want to be integrated; it has its own chroot-handling etc., so it really ought to be run separately.
[09:56] <iwj> Firefox maintenance: otherwise relatively quiet.  Still a conffile prompt needing sorting out.  I've had representations about -fno-strict-aliasing: currently we compile with -fstrict-aliasing as a consequence of -O2; if someone has a crash that goes away with -fno-.. we should turn that back on again.
[09:56] <iwj> DeveloperDocumentation: Editing work in progress (slow).
[09:56] <iwj> Bugs backlog: Awful.  I think I'm going to stop looking in detail at unconfirmed firefox reports except to reply when appropriate to the emails as they come in.
[09:56] <iwj> Bugs backlog: What's the status of the Malone searching and display UI problems/improvements ?  (Malone #29569, #30846, #29678)  Bugfixing during freeze is going to be seriously hampered unless our tools improve quickly !
[09:56] <iwj> Bugs backlog: Email backlog: ~24h.
[09:56] <mdz> iwj: d-a-f implemented, then?
[09:57] <iwj> mdz: Yes.
[09:57] <iwj> Modulo complaints like infinity's.
[09:57] <doko> iwj: turning off the dialogue seems to be controversial?
[09:57] <mdz> if there are any mime types where we're not doing the right thing with this setup, those are bugs
[09:57] <mdz> we'll discuss on the list
[09:57] <iwj> Right.
[09:57] <mdz> doko: the sab does not consider it controversial ;-)
[09:57] <Kamion> siretart: already done, see #ubuntu-devel
[09:57] <doko> well, then ... ;-)
[09:57] <mdz> iwj: speaking of which, it's been requested that we do the same thing to thunderbird.  not sure if it uses the same system, but please look into it (maybe with Mithrandir?)
[09:58] <iwj> mdz: Sure.  I can supply the patch, which is nice and small.
[09:58] <iwj> (I don't know Thunderbird at all, so we'll need a TB expert to handle that end of it.)
[09:58] <infinity> mdz: I've been doing tbird, not Tollef.
[09:58] <mdz> iwj: regarding automated-testing, can we consider the system itself to be complete and the remaining work deployment?
[09:58] <mdz> infinity: ok, sure
[09:59] <infinity> iwj: Your patch should apply cleanly (ish), but we'll wait for the outcome of the flamewar.  (The GNOME/MIME patch already applies, I've tested)
[09:59] <iwj> mdz: Yes, I think so.  That would be one way of looking at it.
[09:59] <mdz> iwj: that's the way of looking at it where it isn't late ;-)
[09:59] <iwj> The whole testing thing is an ongoing process really so it's difficult to pick a time when we say it's `complete'.
[09:59] <iwj> not late> Sure :-).
[09:59] <mdz> iwj: for dapper it's about the low-hanging fruit.  if we're actually test-installing stuff, that's already a huge benefit
[09:59] <iwj> It's certainly at the point now where other people besides Ubuntu can deploy it.
[09:59] <mdz> we knew we wouldn't have a huge wealth of tests yet
[09:59] <mdz> ok
[09:59] <mdz> iwj: thanks
[10:00] <mdz> infinity?
[10:00] <infinity> splash-down: Implementation for this has landed and is working.  A few bugs will need to be ironed out (some text flicker, and making sure we survive for the last few seconds of the shutdown), but it's pretty much working as-is.
[10:00] <infinity> last week distro: initramfs-tools hacking (including fixing a longstanding conffile editing and dist-upgrade bug), Berkeley DB Java support fixes, new fglrx upstream in LRM, ssl-cert upload for unified snakeoil setup (server-candy), new Samba upstream version, and some other random bugfixes and triaging.
[10:00] <iwj> I'll keep work on it, obviously.
[10:00] <infinity> last week buildd/soyuz: Again, spent a lot of time hunting down broken builds, spent time talking with cprov about how we're going to fix the buildds to do what we want/need.  Spent some time discussing translation handling with pitti, who now seems to have things underway with cprov/carlos to get things happening The Right Way.  \o/
[10:00] <infinity> next week distro: Time to start on hardcore bug triaging/fixing.  First target for me is cleaning up and polishing Thunderbird, which is shiny enough in its new upstream version, but obviously rough around the edges.  Also, get auto-distupgrade testing tested and running for mvo.
[10:00] <infinity> next week buildd/soyuz: I've arranged to spend time next week doing (remote) pair-programming with cprov (approved by mdz and kiko), so we can fix some of the more glaring outstanding issues that are eating my time (auto-dep-wait handling, dep-wait removal in the queuebuilder, and auto-give-backs are the top three moles to whack)
[10:00] <pitti> infinity: does that also include s/mozilla-tbird/tbird/?
[10:00] <pitti> infinity: asac asked me about this
[10:01] <mdz> I guess pitti covered reducing-duplication
[10:01] <infinity> pitti: asac and I wanted to do it (and we had a branch where it was being worked on), but I fear mdz will veto it now that FF is upon us...
[10:01] <pitti> infinity: I talked with him wrt totally broken locale package support
[10:01] <mdz> pitti: what's the rationale for renaming it?
[10:01] <pitti> but no result yet
[10:01] <infinity> mdz: Comments?  If the tbird rename can land *REALLY QUICKLY* is it still a go?
[10:01] <pitti> mdz: same as m-firefox, trademarkish issues
[10:02] <infinity> mdz: Same rationale as renameing firefox, the mozilla foundation would really, really like us to (trademark violation)
[10:02] <mdz> infinity: I don't have enough information; would the two of you send me the details via email?
[10:02] <pitti> mdz: not that *I* would be overly interested in it, I just thought we have to
[10:02] <mdz> best answer for now is "maybe"
[10:02] <mdz> please include details about which packages are affected; the fewer the better
[10:02] <iwj> infinity: You've had actual official contact from Mozilla Foundation people saying they want us to rename it ?
[10:02] <infinity> mdz: I'll pow-wow with asac and see how quickly we think we can land it, then mail you with details.
[10:03] <mdz> thanks
[10:03] <infinity> iwj: We, as in both Debian and Ubuntu have has in the past, yes.
[10:03] <mdz> heno/dholbach: example-content?
[10:03] <infinity> s/has/had/
[10:03] <dholbach>  example-content: another update, Music files included as well - no idea, how to proceed with the visibilification (answers on ubuntu-devel@ were rather undecided)
[10:03] <iwj> infinity: OK.
[10:03] <heno> * example-content: the example files them selves are comming along fine. I haven't made much progress on the integration with Rhythmbox playlists and adding pictures to gthumb, etc.
[10:03] <dholbach> hopefully jdub is still awake and can give some input
[10:03] <ogra> dholbach, its 9pm where he is ...
[10:04] <heno> * accessibility: not an official dapper-goal, but worth mentioning that some very cool stuff has come together this week, mainly thanks to TheMuso
[10:04] <ogra> dholbach, he *should* be awake ;P
[10:04] <seb128> ogra: jdub is not always respecting the local timezone though :)
[10:04] <ogra> hehe
[10:04] <mdz> dholbach: ok, need to resolve the visibilification by the end of this week.  if the desktop team cannot come to a decision, I will have to ask the sab ;-)
[10:05] <fabbione> guys we are already running out of time. can we please skip extra commetns and speed up?
[10:05] <dholbach> mdz: sounds good.
[10:05] <ogra> seb128, he's on jdub-time you mean :)
[10:05] <mdz> fabbione: we'll do the best we can; there is a lot to sum up given FF
[10:05] <jdub> dholbach: i want directories in users's home with symlinks to example content dirs
[10:05] <mdz> fabbione: you're up
[10:05] <seb128> dholbach: take a decision, or I'm not sure we will like the one the sab will take :p
[10:05] <fabbione> Since we are in Feature Freeze the report is to be considered "final" for features:
[10:05] <fabbione> (Jane I kept a similar and complete struct as last time, so it should be easy to parse)
[10:05] <fabbione> * server-candy: "Ship a Server Test Suite on the CD": deferred. "Third party software inclusion": we have a list of apps submitted by community that needs to be reviewed (licence) and in case packaged. "central snakeoil SSL setup": missing 2 packages. "Create an MD5 checker for the Ubuntu Installer rescue mode": deferred. All code has been done. Admins did not deliver #723. "Provide a RCS /etc out of the box" deferred to dapper+1 (too ma
[10:05] <fabbione> ny issues have been raised to be done in a proper way in such short time).
[10:05] <fabbione> * ubuntu-cluster: Usual round of redhat cluster suite updates.  SLURM - deferred (licence issues and no time to port it to gnutls), DRBD - deferred (it's basically only x86* and it has a bunch of annoying limitations to be really useful), LVS (ipvsadm and keepalived) - packages moved to main (need to check if they are on CD), ganglia - deferred (pkgs are old and missing a lot of love. Ivoks did an amazing race against time to get them do
[10:05] <fabbione> ne with no luck).
[10:05] <fabbione> * last week: a lot of server-candy and ubuntu-cluster work.
[10:05] <fabbione> * next week: Start heavy bug squashing (yes yes.. including X, ok??).
[10:05] <dholbach> jdub: ok, let's chat about that afterwards
[10:05] <seb128> jdub: I'm with you on that one
[10:06] <jdub> seb128: we just have to fight for supremacy over Kamion ;)
[10:06] <seb128> :)
[10:06] <mdz> fabbione: ok, thanks
[10:06] <mdz> doko?
[10:06] <doko> [this week] 
[10:06] <doko> - openoffice: update rosetta import, new kurdish package, OOo test builds, test builds, test builds, gnome-integration patches, 2.0.2rc2 uploads
[10:06] <doko> - java-roadmap/native-gcj: gij/gcj-4.1 update, eclipse update, some package rebuilds
[10:07] <doko> - other: db4.x debugging & fixes, some syncs, zope/schooltool related uploads
[10:07] <doko> [next week] 
[10:07] <doko> - openoffice: 2.0.2 rc5, upload of related packages
[10:07] <doko> - final toolchain packages
[10:07] <Kamion> if you guys did it only for the first user and users created with user-admin, and not for those created with adduser/useradd on servers with 10000 users, we might be closer to agreement
[10:07] <doko> - review selection of python modules for the desktop
[10:07] <doko> [status}
[10:07] <doko> - openoffice-gnome: partially implemented. Implemented: no more focus stealing, gnome-file-selector (needs more fixes -> martink, next week). Not implemented: copy-and-paste behaviour (help needed), use of gnome-personal-defaults
[10:07] <doko> - openoffice-amd64: doesn't currently build. Mithrandir: updated control/rules files for i386 binaries on ronne:~doko/ooo/2.0.2/amd64
[10:07] <doko> - openoffice-l10n: package renaming is done, needs testing.
[10:07] <doko> - toolchain-roadmap is implemented, pending the uploads of the final release versions (4.1.0, 4.0.3, 3.4.6), the latter pending approval from jbailey. The upstream releases are scheduled for February.  Should that one be set to implemented?
[10:07] <doko> - python-roadmap was "completed" last week, but we decided not to  upload it to dapper, therefore the handful of uploads to drop python2.3. I'm building a test repository on p.u.c, so people can test it, and its ready for our next transition to 2.5. Planning to  have an external python2.5 repository for dapper (outside of dapper). Delayed this week due too OOo work. low priority target. Still pending: The update to 2.4.3.  Sho
[10:07] <iwj> I'm afraid I really have to go now or I might miss my dinner.  I'll review the log tomorrow.
[10:07] <doko> uld that one be set to implemented?
[10:07] <doko> - native-gcj: works for eclipse and OOo (the latter still i386 only).  Adding these doesn't affect the other packages. needs testing, working OOo packages without a native gcj package have priority.
[10:07] <mdz> iwj: ok
[10:07] <jbailey> doko: 3.4.6 is waiting on my approval?
[10:08] <doko> jbailey: that glibc still builds (but there no more C related changes, just C++)
[10:08] <mdz> doko: no release dates yet from upstream?
[10:08] <jbailey> doko: Ah, okay.   Are the packages just on p.u.c for testing?
[10:09] <doko> mdz: all estimated for next week. trying to get updates ...
[10:09] <doko> ... on this information
[10:09] <mdz> doko: I have emails with you with details; will follow up there
[10:09] <doko> mdz: thanks
[10:10] <mdz> doko: so python-roadmap is partially implemented, some parts deferred
[10:10] <doko> mdz: yes, we decided two weeks ago to not include it in dapper anymore
[10:10] <mdz> final status for java-roadmap?
[10:10] <mdz> doko: (yes, clarifying final status for JaneW)
[10:10] <doko> implemented, without -doc packages (API documentation) 
[10:11] <mdz> ok
[10:11] <mdz> thanks
[10:11] <mdz> dholbach?
[10:11] <dholbach> apart from example-content and a11y-improvements:
[10:11] <dholbach> this week (done): bug triage, random fixes
[10:11] <dholbach> this week (todo): more bug triage, finish off apt-get.org
[10:11] <dholbach> next week (todo): new GNOME, more bug triage
[10:11] <mdz> specs all implemented, thanks
[10:11] <dholbach> :)
[10:11] <mdz> dholbach: any good feedback from the test plan announcement?
[10:12] <dholbach> lots of bug reports :)
[10:12] <mdz> how was bug day?
[10:12] <JaneW> doko: java roadmap?
[10:12] <dholbach> and people in #ubuntu-bugs
[10:12] <mdz> JaneW: <doko> implemented, without -doc packages (API documentation) 
[10:12] <dholbach> i think it was on an all time high, although seb and i agreed to set up goals for the desktop bug squashers to have work during the weeks (and not only on bug days)
[10:12] <JaneW> mdz: ah there it is, thanks
[10:12] <dholbach> to have more of permanent action
[10:13] <dholbach> we need a bug squashers team page and stuff like that to make it more formal and a bigger team
[10:13] <dholbach> (team shirts and stuff like that ;)))
[10:13] <mdz> heh
[10:13] <mdz> sounds good, thank
[10:13] <mdz> s
[10:13] <mdz> BenC?
[10:13] <BenC> community-server-hardware-testing: Pretty much implemented. Announcement was sent out.
[10:13] <BenC> Work this week: Bugs and more bugs. Trying to classify all the breezy->dapper regressions. Purchased and setup an amd64-k8 system to help with a few of the "x86_64 only" bugs.
[10:13] <BenC> Work next week: Mostly work on regression type bugs. There's quite a few crashes that didn't happen in Breezy. I'm going to be setting up a lot of one-on-one's with bug submitters via IRC to help speed up the dev cycle, testing patches, etc.
[10:13] <sivang> dholbach: we need #ubuntu-qa maybe :)
[10:14] <doko> dholbach: for bug squashing ... please consider to change the reportbug email address to something that launchpad can handle
[10:14] <mdz> BenC: the remainder of server-hardware-testing is to collect information from the community on which hardware they are testing, and track test results through the release cycle
[10:14] <mdz> so that should be ongoing
[10:14] <BenC> correct
[10:14] <JaneW> Can everyone try to get their final FF status updates and spec reviews etc to me by 12:00 UTC tomorrow please, so the report is not too delayed.
[10:14] <dholbach> doko: that was already agreed on and requires launchpad xmlrpc changes (and changes of reportbug) iirc
[10:14] <mdz> likewise for preventing-hardware-support-regressions; any feedback there from that announcement?
[10:15] <BenC> nothing really
[10:15] <mdz> "we need to know if your hardware still works with Dapper; if not, don't complain later"
[10:15] <BenC> haven't checked the wiki to see if there is anything submitted yet
[10:15] <BenC> still going through bug reports, so there may be something there
[10:15] <BenC> and no real way to tell if the bug report was the result of the announcement :)
[10:16] <mdz> BenC: we should include a blurb in every Flight announcement with text equivalent to the above; this needs to be very visible to users and let them know that it is their responsibility to help us test; it is the only way for us to provide any likelihood that their systems work well
[10:17] <mdz> "OR ELSE"
[10:17] <BenC> mdz: who sends those announcements?
[10:17] <mdz> BenC: Kamion
[10:17] <BenC> I'll write something up to ammend it
[10:17] <BenC> ok
[10:17] <mdz> I believe he has a wiki page where things can be added 
[10:17] <mdz> which are then rolled into the announcements
[10:17] <Kamion> not really, I usually look at the last one I sent
[10:17] <BenC> heh
[10:17] <Kamion> if you mail me text I'll make sure to include it
[10:18] <doko> Kamion: when does the next flight fly?
[10:18] <doko> (planned)
[10:18] <Kamion> doko: I only just did one, I need to get some work done now ;-)
[10:18] <mdz> Kamion: a wiki page would be a good idea, rather than having you sort through emails
[10:18] <Kamion> doko: but I guess next week or the week after
[10:18] <Kamion> mdz: fair enough, I'll try to establish one
[10:18] <jdub> mdz: i spoke to Kamion earlier this week about sorting out a better system for this
[10:18] <mdz> ok, we're over time (but not as far as I'd feared), so we should wrap up
[10:19] <doko> Kamion: I'd like to have OOo 2.0.2 rc5 there ...
[10:19] <mdz> we'll see how JaneW's report looks to get the overview, but in general, it looks like we did very well this time around
[10:19] <mdz> with regard to choosing achievable targets
[10:19] <JaneW> mdz: yes it's looking very green *grin*
[10:19] <JaneW> mdz: yes I think a better selection was made
[10:19] <BenC> congrats to all, jobs well done
[10:19] <mdz> adjourned, thanks everyone and congratulations
[10:19] <JaneW> thanks everyone
[10:19] <pitti> thansk everyone
[10:20] <dholbach> thanks everyone
[10:20] <BenC> thanks mdz
[10:20] <ogra> mdz, there are a ton of syncs outstanding ...
[10:20] <fabbione> cya everybody
[10:20] <doko> thanks
[10:20] <JaneW> to all those that need to update me, I will be in from around 7:00UTC ping me
[10:20] <pitti> right, syncs are badly lagging
[10:20] <doko> dholbach: dogwalk, or beer?
[10:20] <mdz> ogra: they'll be honored
[10:20] <dholbach> doko: some work todo
[10:20] <Keybuk> mm, beer
[10:20] <infinity> ogra: Syncs need some technical sorting, that's all.
[10:20] <Kinnison> ciau all
[10:20] <dholbach> doko: looking at gnome-session patch, some main inclusion reports for a11y stuff
[10:21] <ogra> yes, the motu people are just worried because elmo seemed kind of unresponsive to them 
[10:21] <infinity> mdz: I've been up all night triaging and talking to cprov, while waiting for the meeting.  Any objections to me breaking core hours for a bit of a morning nap? :)
[10:21] <Keybuk> ogra: he's been unresponsive to everyone, hasn't he?
[10:21] <Kamion> ogra: you can tell them that that's because the sync code is still in progress
[10:21] <Kamion> (which I'm pretty sure is the case)
[10:21] <ogra> Keybuk, yes, but i grok how busy he is inn #c
[10:22] <ogra> Kamion, oki
[10:22] <mdz> infinity: none
[10:22] <infinity> mdz: Danke.
[10:22] <doko> dholbach: don't understand your last remark
[10:22] <infinity> Good morning/afternoon/evening/night everyone.
[10:22] <dholbach> doko: that's stuff i'm going to do now
[10:22] <dholbach> infinity: to you too
[10:24] <pitti> night everyone
[10:24] <sivang> night all and happy hacking for those who continue