/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/03/02/#ubuntu-doc.txt

LaserJockrobotgeek: it's ok and it uses an irssi engine supposedly, but it doesn't show the away status :(12:05
robotgeekLaserJock: as in the away "message" or just plain away?12:05
LaserJockrobotgeek: as in, in the users list I can't tell if people are away or not. 12:06
robotgeekLaserJock: hmm, okay. konversation (dapper) seems to be working fine12:06
LaserJockyeah,  I loved having a konsole tab12:07
LaserJockbut now I have to find OSX alternatives, or at least find OSX ports :(12:08
robotgeeki suppose you are using irssi in OS X12:09
crimsunas in http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/xchat ?12:09
crimsun(or http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/konversation )12:09
LaserJockcrimsun: fink doesn't really work for me yet. but I just found an xchat-aqua12:10
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LaserJockhmm, brb12:15
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LaserJockoh, very nice.12:15
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robotgeekhowdy Madpilot12:18
LaserJockhi Madpilot 12:18
Madpilothi12:18
Burgworksalut Madpilot 12:20
Madpilothi Burgwork - I'm home with a bug, lucky me... :P12:26
dsasI'm sure there's a malone joke to be made there somewhere.12:27
LaserJocklol12:27
Burgworkoh joy12:28
LaserJockI had sistpoty sponsor an upload of bugsx for me, but he said that he sure hated uploading bugs ;-)12:28
Burgworkremind me not to talk to you for at few days, I need to finish this bloody book12:28
MadpilotBurgwork: your response is very generous :P12:30
LaserJockBurgwork: I'm sure it will be really cool once it's done though. I look forward to it12:30
mdkerobotgeek, pong12:43
mdkeLaserJock, nice work on that copyright stuff12:44
MadpilotLaserJock: have we changed all the docs over to GPL, then? I thought  most of them were still dual CC-By-SA/GFDL?12:46
LaserJockMadpilot: no12:46
BurgworkMadpilot, no12:46
LaserJockMadpilot: the Packaging Guide is the only GPL'd doc12:46
Madpilotso why do we need the GPL stuff in the UDG?12:46
mdkeMadpilot, it's just the scripts that are gpl12:46
LaserJockI GPL'd the shell scripts12:47
LaserJockand the Makefiles12:47
LaserJockmdke: the only thing I am still concerned about is the .css files12:47
MadpilotOK, I misunderstood the commit emails, then12:47
Madpilotnever mind12:47
LaserJockmdke: some of them are GPL'd but others seem to be sort of PD and some don't have anything12:47
LaserJockMadpilot: might have just been my commit logs confusing you :(12:48
mdkeLaserJock, right. they are possibly based on the ubuntu css...12:48
mdkei'll have a closer look tomorrow12:48
LaserJockmdke: so I really don't know what to do with them. Technically I think we should have something. But it really doesn't seem like a big deal12:48
LaserJockmdke: other than that I think we are set as far as the ubuntu-docs package. Kubuntu has similar issues but I didn't know if I should mess around there12:49
mdkeit might be worth pointing it out to jjesse or Riddell12:50
LaserJockmdke: I was thinking about that. I wonder if they are up?12:50
mdkeriddell is always up12:50
LaserJocktrue :-)12:50
mdkebut emailing the list will work too12:51
mdke-> bed12:51
LaserJockyeah, for some reason I just haven't gotten used to emailing. I read them a lot but I just tend to not send any.12:52
LaserJockcya mdke12:52
=== rob drops in
LaserJockhi rob12:56
robhi LaserJock 12:56
Burgworkhey rob, long time, no see12:56
robyeah, I float around12:56
robwork has been smashing me lately12:57
Madpilotcould someone commit manicka's UDG diff, please?01:06
crimsunLaserJock: I should be working with generic/packagingguide/C, correct?01:07
LaserJockcrimsun: yeah01:14
LaserJockcrimsun: sorry, the universities Laser Safety Officer came by :(01:14
MadpilotLaserJock: and told you to take the lasers off the shark's heads? :P01:16
crimsunLaserJock: thanks01:16
LaserJockMadpilot: actually yeah, we had to replace our cool "shark with laser" warning sign with a boring one01:16
crimsunnow is just reads "jordan with laser" :-P01:17
crimsuns/is/it/01:17
LaserJockcrimsun: I think it should have my Hackergotchi on LP :-)01:18
LaserJockhttps://launchpad.net/people/mantha01:18
crimsunhaha01:19
LaserJockcrimsun: are you looking at a specific part of the packaging guide or just reviewing it?01:20
crimsunright now I'm fighting termcap, but I'll be reviewing it01:22
LaserJockbrb, gotta so some quick wavelength separation ;-)01:22
crimsunis there specific portion(s) you want me to prioritise?01:22
crimsunis(are)01:22
LaserJockcrimsun: no, just the parts that are written ;-) also I'd like you opinion on the overall outline01:22
crimsunk.01:23
LaserJockhmm, I don't suppose any of you guys know how to use a Pellin Broca prism?01:27
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LaserJockah, wikipedia know ;-)01:30
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robnasty01:33
Madpilothey, I only kicked one person - kicking people for rank stupidity isn't actually allowed :P01:35
LaserJockMadpilot: flexing those newly CC approved muscles? ;-)01:36
Madpilotwell, for stupidity of the "I'm a noob and can't read docs" variety01:36
MadpilotLaserJock: just a bit - someone spammed four away messages in about two minutes, so they had to leave...01:36
Burgwork#ubuntu is hopping right now01:37
LaserJockMadpilot: man, they need you over in #bzr, there was somebody disconnecting and reconnecting every few minutes for days01:37
manickain some sections of the desktop guide it says in a note - You must use Synaptic Package Manager to install this package01:38
manickashould those be in or out?01:40
Madpilotmanicka: in - those should be on things that aren't in Add Applications01:40
manickaah, ok01:41
LaserJockMadpilot: but you don't have to use Synaptic for them, maybe it is better to say that you can't use Add Applications?01:41
Madpilotit's a desktop guide, we're sticking with the GUI stuff for simplicity01:42
Burgworkwe advocate a gui solution over any other01:42
Burgworkif you know about apt-get, you likely already know that you can install those packages via that01:42
MadpilotI think there's a short apt-get section in the Adding Applications chapter, though01:42
manickawouldn't a link to Adding, Removing and Updating Applications be better01:43
Burgworkmanicka, that involves a lot of extra clicking by the user01:43
Burgworksometimes you just have to provide a good default and stick with it01:43
manickathere's nothing in the apt-get section01:43
BurgworkMadpilot, so restore pretty much blew me off today. Most annoyed01:44
MadpilotBurgwork: not interested in getting into computers?01:44
LaserJockI was more thinking along the lines of what if we have another GUI package manager. I guess we could cross that bridge when we get there.01:44
Burgwork"they would have to talk about it"01:44
robotgeekmdke: nothing actually, i forgot to compress my patch file, however the situation corrected itself01:47
robotgeekmdke: who do i have to speak to about commit access?01:48
LaserJockrobotgeek: I think currently you need to have mdke or a doc team member send a request to elmo, I think. and then you wait01:49
robotgeekLaserJock: ah, okay01:50
Madpilot...and wait, and wait... :P01:50
Burgworkrobotgeek, are you already a member of Ubuntu-doc on LP?01:50
robotgeekBurgwork: only the wiki team, i think. i applied to join, never heard of what happened01:51
LaserJockBurgwork: he is a fresh Ubuntu member though01:51
robotgeekYou are a proposed member of this team. To become an active member your subscription has to bo approved by one of the team's administrators. You can't join this team.01:51
MadpilotBurgwork: you're an LP admin for -doc, aren't you?01:52
Burgworkfor both doc and wiki01:54
Burgworkmdke, any objections to making robotgeek a member of ubunut-doc?01:54
Burgworkrobotgeek, what is your LP name?01:55
LaserJockMadpilot: who needed something committed?01:55
robotgeekhttps://launchpad.net/people/robotgeek01:55
MadpilotLaserJock: manicka sent a diff to the list01:56
Burgworkrobotgeek, you are a member of the wiki team01:56
robotgeekBurgwork: yes, but not the -doc team, if that makes any diffference01:56
LaserJockMadpilot: argg, who's manicka?01:57
Burgworkrobotgeek, for the doc team I generally ask mdke and jerome if they also approve01:57
MadpilotLaserJock: Grant01:57
manickawait on that diff01:57
LaserJockMadpilot: oh01:57
robotgeekBurgwork: sure, no issues. I just need to get my patches in :)01:57
manickaI'm sending an update01:57
MadpilotLaserJock: GrAnT GaLbRaiTh 01:57
manickathat's me01:57
LaserJockMadpilot: ok01:58
Madpilotmanicka: I know; LaserJock's got commit rights, though, so he's useful :P01:58
BurgworkI do to, but I am almost never at a machine that I can actually commit from01:59
Burgworkanyway, it is the weekend and I am heading home01:59
robotgeekbrb02:01
ompaulright I am off to sleep - I'll do more over the weekend02:05
ompaulcheers02:05
LaserJockmanicka: so it's ok to apply this diff?02:08
LaserJockmanicka: done ;-)02:18
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manickarobotgeek, what areas of the kubuntu guide need some love at the moment?03:04
robotgeekmanicka: hmm, uno momento03:05
robotgeekmanicka: if we maintain the structure of Ubuntu Desktop Guide, 4. Configuring Your System needs lots of love03:06
robotgeekno one is working on it atm, i'm trying to wrap up chapter 3. Common Tasks tommorow03:07
Madpilotdon't forget that mdke and I have drastically changed some of the structure of the UDG in the past two weeks, as well... :P03:07
manickak, I'll have a look03:07
robotgeekMadpilot: i copied the structure today, i need to make common tasks to be similiar03:08
robotgeekMadpilot: i was tempted to write the apt-get section :)03:08
Madpilotrobotgeek: go ahead, we can copy it back into UDG as well03:08
robotgeekMadpilot: yeah, i just got lazy, and did not write it, lol03:09
robotgeekMadpilot: i'm going over to a friends place, so i doubt i'll get any work done this weekend03:10
manickahow much detail would w e want in an apt-get guide03:10
manickajust the basics?03:10
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Madpilotwe're concentrating on the GUI methods - Add App/Synaptic - so just a basic couple of paragraphs on apt-get should be enough03:11
manickaok03:12
robotgeekmanicka: you can take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AddingRepositoriesCliHowto03:13
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theCorehello LaserJock05:10
LaserJockhi theCore 05:10
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LaserJocktheCore: did you see my commit?05:12
theCorenot yet05:12
LaserJockI really rearranged stuff05:12
theCoreI didn't received the -commit yet05:14
theCorewait, I got it05:14
theCoreyep, it is better05:16
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crimsuncrap, do I need to check out again?05:18
LaserJockcrimsun: you could just do a "svn up" if you want. we just messed around with the introduction and getting started sections05:20
LaserJockcrimsun: but you don't have to if you don't want to ;-)05:21
theCoreLaserJock: where I could get a html built ? I doesn't have SVN on my other machine (I'm installing DapperFlight4 right now, on mine ) 05:21
crimsunah, in desktopguide05:21
crimsunorthogonal to my revisions, so it's golden05:21
LaserJockcrimsun: what about desktopguide?05:21
LaserJockcrimsun: no, it was in the packaging guide05:21
LaserJockcrimsun: sorry :(05:22
crimsunhmm05:22
crimsunmust not have propagated yet05:22
crimsunU    ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks.xml05:22
crimsunUpdated to revision 2488.05:22
LaserJockcrimsun: you might have already gotten my changes05:22
crimsunah05:22
LaserJock2487 was the changes05:22
LaserJockso your good05:23
theCoreLaserJock: hey you wiped my comments :?05:23
LaserJocktheCore: well, I was having problems with my copy-n-paste so I didn't redo them? do you want them?05:24
LaserJocktheCore: I don't know that we need them, do we?05:24
theCorenot really, I liked the idea of commenting for the other peoples that could help on the writing, though05:25
LaserJocktheCore: if you want, the next diff you sennd I'll include them, ok?05:26
theCorealright, but I don't know if will redo them05:28
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LaserJockmhz: done with your css?06:37
mhzalmost06:37
mhzmy headache is killing me06:37
LaserJockbummer06:37
mhzit has been like this for the last 48 hours or so06:37
mhzI can hardly sleep06:38
LaserJockugghh06:38
LaserJockand your on a computer?06:38
mhzand I can hardly stay up or sit06:38
mhzthe last couple of hours.. yes06:38
mhzbecause i had a lapsus of recovery06:38
mhzbye all06:47
manickajust submitted diff for add-applications.xml to list07:02
manickaoverview of apt-get07:02
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mdkemorning10:36
robhi mdke 10:41
mdkeyo10:43
mdkehow's it going rob?10:43
robnot bad, yourself?10:43
mdkevery well thanks10:45
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Madpilotmdke: thanks for asking for my commit access again... we'll see what happens10:47
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mdkeMadpilot, np10:48
mdkemanicka's patch is pretty good10:48
mdkei'm just making a few changes and then I'll commit it10:48
Madpilotthe apt-get one? haven't looked at the diff, but it'll be nice to have something there10:49
mdkeyeah, it's good stuff10:50
Madpilotgood10:50
mdkewhat Laserjock said about the "You must use synaptic to install this package" notes, he has a point...10:51
mdkemaybe we should say "Use synaptic or apt to install this", or "This is not available in Add/Remove Applications"10:51
mdkedunno10:51
MadpilotI don't like the idea of "This is not available in Add/Remove Applications" - we should always point out where it *is* available10:52
mdkeyeah i agree10:53
mdkemvo suggested that we could make a list of all the packages we cite which aren't available, and he would make them available.10:53
mdkei don't know whether that is workable though10:53
Madpilotin Add App?10:53
mdkeyes10:54
Madpilotincluding stuff like codecs that're never going to have .desktop files?10:55
mdkeyes, he would make dummy desktop files10:55
Madpilotinteresting - I don't think it's needed, though - people should be introduced to Synaptic eventually, after all10:55
mdkei tend to agree10:57
mdkeand I can't be bothered to make such a list10:57
Madpilotthere's that, too :P10:57
mdkeI've opened a bug on the codecs though, because they are so popular10:57
Madpilotdesktop files for them?10:58
mdkeyeah10:58
Madpilotmakes sense - they've got to be the single most-installed set of packages10:59
mdkeyeah10:59
robmdke, when will the docs be frozen?11:00
mdkeok, we now have an APT section11:00
mdkerob, 23 March11:00
mdkeiirc11:00
robah11:00
mdkecheck the ReleaseSchedule11:00
robmaybe I can do some proof reading or something, time has been getting away from me lately11:00
mdkehopefully we can start translating earlier though, they are in pretty good shape11:00
mdkerob, that would be cool. The server guide especially needs a bit of reviewing love11:01
mdkerob, we've started updating the status tags so it should be pretty obvious from http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/status11:02
robok, I'll check it out11:03
robI'll have to send patches though if I need to11:03
mdkeoh?11:03
mdkelost your password?11:03
mdkewe can ask elmo to resend it11:04
robyeah, mostly because I did the job on my PC and forgot to back up my gpg key11:04
mdkeouch11:04
mdkewhat's now known as "doing a Madpilot"11:04
robhehe11:04
Madpilotno, I still had my GPG key, but I'd forgotten my password :P11:04
mdkeoh yeah11:05
robyeah I dont't have both11:05
MadpilotI think Corey nuked one of his GPG keys reformatting, though11:05
mdke"doing a corey" then11:05
mdkeMadpilot, see the APT section?11:05
Madpilotjust updating now11:05
robI did a CoreyMadpilot11:05
mdkeMadpilot, by the way, I've introduced a few <warning> things for the DVD section and codecs and such, lemme know what you think about those11:06
mdkeoh and in the "extra repositories" section11:06
Madpilotlooks good - esp. the Apt section11:07
MadpilotI might re-write the Synaptic section there sometime this weekend - it's suffering from a bit of excess verbiage...11:08
mdkealright11:09
mdkethe paras are a bit long yeah11:09
mdkei'm just adding some sudo notes to each of those sections11:10
mdkei LOVE the way yelp displays notes and warnings and stuff11:10
mdkemakes the page look a lot better11:10
Madpilotthe styling is pretty cool - I'm still getting my head around how much more powerful XML/DocBook is compared to regular HTML/CSS11:11
mdkeok committed11:12
mdkeI've marked everything as complete except for the synaptic section :D11:12
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Madpilotcool. that bash alias I posted to the list is so useful - saves a lot of typing during svn updates :P11:14
mdkeyeah I need to apply that11:14
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dsasmdke: ping04:39
mdkedsas, pong04:42
dsasmdke: reading the "windows partition" bit, it tells people to read "list devices" but doesn't really tell people what they should be looking for inside it. Should I write an explanation on the "list devices" bit and explain what they're looking at, or should I explain in the "mount windows partitions bit"?04:45
dsasmdke: rather it doesn't tell people what they're looking for in the "mount" output.04:45
mdkeyes, that could be clearer, I guess04:46
mdkeif you'd like to expand on the "list devices" section, that would be cool04:46
dsasoh, hang on, I just realised that the "mount windows partitions" refers to disks manager and not 'list devices' 04:46
mdkeoh yeah04:48
mdkewell, any more material there would probably be good04:48
dsasok, I'll have a look at it.04:48
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LaserJockhi Madpilot 08:33
Madpilothi LaserJock08:33
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LaserJockhi manicka 11:15
manickamorning :)11:15
robotgeekhey manicka LaserJock11:28
manickahey11:29
LaserJockhi robotgeek 11:29
robotgeekhopefully i will finish "common-tasks.xml" today, and someone will commit it :)11:29
mdkei think we can start committing your stuff straight off11:36
mdkemaking jjesse do it all is unrealistic, and you are in charge of that doc, so we can just commit no questions asked, IMO11:36
robotgeekmdke: yes, that would be nice. 11:36
LaserJockif it is ok, I can do a lot of it.11:36
robotgeeki have about 3 different sets of patches yet to be applied, 2 are one liners, and 1 is major11:36
mdkehmm11:37
mdkemail me a single patch?11:37
mdkewith your working copy11:37
robotgeekhmm, or you could just apply the big patch now, (one i mailed yesterday) and i will send in the onliners in my next set?11:37
mdkeok, I'll see if it applies without the others11:38
mdkegah11:38
mdkethere are four of em11:38
robotgeekmdke: yes, it does. the first one is for adept, so not to worry about that. 11:38
robotgeekpretty self explanatory, i guess :)11:39
mdkerobotgeek, i'm lazy, send me one patch for your whole kubuntu/ directory11:40
mdkeor will that step on peoples' toes?11:40
robotgeekmdke: hmm, not really. one moment11:40
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robotgeekmdke: i am not done with common-tasks.xml yet, so i'll send you a big diff when i am done?11:42
mdkesure, I'll apply it tomorrow morning11:43
robotgeekcool, hopefully i'll be done with that. doing the whole lists -> procedures conversion right now11:44
mdkefind/replace :)11:45
robotgeekmdke: yes, also cleaning up the info. merging stuff from UDG too :)11:45
mdkecool, yeah that's not an easy job11:46
robotgeekwell, basically editing the UDG file and pasting where relevant in KDG11:47
robotgeeki suddenly also had the urge to clean out my vimrc :)11:48
LaserJockrobotgeek: really? I'd be interested in a pastebin of that11:50
mdkeMadpilot, i changed the css for the web guides today, any thoughts?11:51
robotgeekLaserJock: sure11:51
mdkemanicka, thanks for your patch by the way, that was really helpful11:51
Madpilotmdke: haven't looked, will now11:51
manickanp11:51
mdkeMadpilot, http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/index.html11:52
manickawhy is there 4 versions of add-applications now11:52
LaserJockmdke: the css for doc.ubuntu.com?11:52
robotgeekLaserJock: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/933011:53
LaserJockrobotgeek: thanks11:53
Madpilotmdke: looks good11:53
LaserJockmdke: I noticed that packaging guide looked different, I like it.11:54
mdkegood11:54
=== robotgeek will steal manicka's section for KDG
mdkethe lines are a bit closer, and the margins larger, that's about it11:54
mdkemanicka, 4 versions?11:54
robotgeekLaserJock: not much there, i guess :)11:56
manickamdke: in the desktop guide there are 4 versions of add-applications.xml sitting there11:57
mdkemanicka, maybe your editor saves old versions? do "svn status" to see which files are under version control11:58
mdkefiles which are local to your system are marked with "?"11:58
manickano locals, these appeared when I did an update this morning11:59
robotgeekmanicka: do you have something file.xml.mine, file.xml.rxyz11:59
=== crimsun [n=crimsun@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has joined #ubuntu-doc
manickarobotgeek: yes12:00
mdkemanicka, https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/12:00
mdkeit's definitely local stuff12:00
manickaok, just deleted them then updated, all is well12:00
mdkei wonder why they didn't show up with svn status12:01
mdkeweird12:01
manickanice changes to APT, btw12:02
mdkethanks to you for starting it off :)12:03
manickait's a pleasure, I can see myself enjoying docbook as i get used to it more12:04

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