[12:05] <LaserJock> robotgeek: it's ok and it uses an irssi engine supposedly, but it doesn't show the away status :(
[12:05] <robotgeek> LaserJock: as in the away "message" or just plain away?
[12:06] <LaserJock> robotgeek: as in, in the users list I can't tell if people are away or not. 
[12:06] <robotgeek> LaserJock: hmm, okay. konversation (dapper) seems to be working fine
[12:07] <LaserJock> yeah,  I loved having a konsole tab
[12:08] <LaserJock> but now I have to find OSX alternatives, or at least find OSX ports :(
[12:09] <robotgeek> i suppose you are using irssi in OS X
[12:09] <crimsun> as in http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/xchat ?
[12:09] <crimsun> (or http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/konversation )
[12:10] <LaserJock> crimsun: fink doesn't really work for me yet. but I just found an xchat-aqua
[12:15] <LaserJock> hmm, brb
[12:15] <LaserJock> oh, very nice.
[12:18] <robotgeek> howdy Madpilot
[12:18] <LaserJock> hi Madpilot 
[12:18] <Madpilot> hi
[12:20] <Burgwork> salut Madpilot 
[12:26] <Madpilot> hi Burgwork - I'm home with a bug, lucky me... :P
[12:27] <dsas> I'm sure there's a malone joke to be made there somewhere.
[12:27] <LaserJock> lol
[12:28] <Burgwork> oh joy
[12:28] <LaserJock> I had sistpoty sponsor an upload of bugsx for me, but he said that he sure hated uploading bugs ;-)
[12:28] <Burgwork> remind me not to talk to you for at few days, I need to finish this bloody book
[12:30] <Madpilot> Burgwork: your response is very generous :P
[12:30] <LaserJock> Burgwork: I'm sure it will be really cool once it's done though. I look forward to it
[12:43] <mdke> robotgeek, pong
[12:44] <mdke> LaserJock, nice work on that copyright stuff
[12:46] <Madpilot> LaserJock: have we changed all the docs over to GPL, then? I thought  most of them were still dual CC-By-SA/GFDL?
[12:46] <LaserJock> Madpilot: no
[12:46] <Burgwork> Madpilot, no
[12:46] <LaserJock> Madpilot: the Packaging Guide is the only GPL'd doc
[12:46] <Madpilot> so why do we need the GPL stuff in the UDG?
[12:46] <mdke> Madpilot, it's just the scripts that are gpl
[12:47] <LaserJock> I GPL'd the shell scripts
[12:47] <LaserJock> and the Makefiles
[12:47] <LaserJock> mdke: the only thing I am still concerned about is the .css files
[12:47] <Madpilot> OK, I misunderstood the commit emails, then
[12:47] <Madpilot> never mind
[12:47] <LaserJock> mdke: some of them are GPL'd but others seem to be sort of PD and some don't have anything
[12:48] <LaserJock> Madpilot: might have just been my commit logs confusing you :(
[12:48] <mdke> LaserJock, right. they are possibly based on the ubuntu css...
[12:48] <mdke> i'll have a closer look tomorrow
[12:48] <LaserJock> mdke: so I really don't know what to do with them. Technically I think we should have something. But it really doesn't seem like a big deal
[12:49] <LaserJock> mdke: other than that I think we are set as far as the ubuntu-docs package. Kubuntu has similar issues but I didn't know if I should mess around there
[12:50] <mdke> it might be worth pointing it out to jjesse or Riddell
[12:50] <LaserJock> mdke: I was thinking about that. I wonder if they are up?
[12:50] <mdke> riddell is always up
[12:50] <LaserJock> true :-)
[12:51] <mdke> but emailing the list will work too
[12:51] <mdke> -> bed
[12:52] <LaserJock> yeah, for some reason I just haven't gotten used to emailing. I read them a lot but I just tend to not send any.
[12:52] <LaserJock> cya mdke
[12:56] <LaserJock> hi rob
[12:56] <rob> hi LaserJock 
[12:56] <Burgwork> hey rob, long time, no see
[12:56] <rob> yeah, I float around
[12:57] <rob> work has been smashing me lately
[01:06] <Madpilot> could someone commit manicka's UDG diff, please?
[01:07] <crimsun> LaserJock: I should be working with generic/packagingguide/C, correct?
[01:14] <LaserJock> crimsun: yeah
[01:14] <LaserJock> crimsun: sorry, the universities Laser Safety Officer came by :(
[01:16] <Madpilot> LaserJock: and told you to take the lasers off the shark's heads? :P
[01:16] <crimsun> LaserJock: thanks
[01:16] <LaserJock> Madpilot: actually yeah, we had to replace our cool "shark with laser" warning sign with a boring one
[01:17] <crimsun> now is just reads "jordan with laser" :-P
[01:17] <crimsun> s/is/it/
[01:18] <LaserJock> crimsun: I think it should have my Hackergotchi on LP :-)
[01:18] <LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/people/mantha
[01:19] <crimsun> haha
[01:20] <LaserJock> crimsun: are you looking at a specific part of the packaging guide or just reviewing it?
[01:22] <crimsun> right now I'm fighting termcap, but I'll be reviewing it
[01:22] <LaserJock> brb, gotta so some quick wavelength separation ;-)
[01:22] <crimsun> is there specific portion(s) you want me to prioritise?
[01:22] <crimsun> is(are)
[01:22] <LaserJock> crimsun: no, just the parts that are written ;-) also I'd like you opinion on the overall outline
[01:23] <crimsun> k.
[01:27] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't suppose any of you guys know how to use a Pellin Broca prism?
[01:30] <LaserJock> ah, wikipedia know ;-)
[01:33] <rob> nasty
[01:35] <Madpilot> hey, I only kicked one person - kicking people for rank stupidity isn't actually allowed :P
[01:36] <LaserJock> Madpilot: flexing those newly CC approved muscles? ;-)
[01:36] <Madpilot> well, for stupidity of the "I'm a noob and can't read docs" variety
[01:36] <Madpilot> LaserJock: just a bit - someone spammed four away messages in about two minutes, so they had to leave...
[01:37] <Burgwork> #ubuntu is hopping right now
[01:37] <LaserJock> Madpilot: man, they need you over in #bzr, there was somebody disconnecting and reconnecting every few minutes for days
[01:38] <manicka> in some sections of the desktop guide it says in a note - You must use Synaptic Package Manager to install this package
[01:40] <manicka> should those be in or out?
[01:40] <Madpilot> manicka: in - those should be on things that aren't in Add Applications
[01:41] <manicka> ah, ok
[01:41] <LaserJock> Madpilot: but you don't have to use Synaptic for them, maybe it is better to say that you can't use Add Applications?
[01:42] <Madpilot> it's a desktop guide, we're sticking with the GUI stuff for simplicity
[01:42] <Burgwork> we advocate a gui solution over any other
[01:42] <Burgwork> if you know about apt-get, you likely already know that you can install those packages via that
[01:42] <Madpilot> I think there's a short apt-get section in the Adding Applications chapter, though
[01:43] <manicka> wouldn't a link to Adding, Removing and Updating Applications be better
[01:43] <Burgwork> manicka, that involves a lot of extra clicking by the user
[01:43] <Burgwork> sometimes you just have to provide a good default and stick with it
[01:43] <manicka> there's nothing in the apt-get section
[01:44] <Burgwork> Madpilot, so restore pretty much blew me off today. Most annoyed
[01:44] <Madpilot> Burgwork: not interested in getting into computers?
[01:44] <LaserJock> I was more thinking along the lines of what if we have another GUI package manager. I guess we could cross that bridge when we get there.
[01:44] <Burgwork> "they would have to talk about it"
[01:47] <robotgeek> mdke: nothing actually, i forgot to compress my patch file, however the situation corrected itself
[01:48] <robotgeek> mdke: who do i have to speak to about commit access?
[01:49] <LaserJock> robotgeek: I think currently you need to have mdke or a doc team member send a request to elmo, I think. and then you wait
[01:50] <robotgeek> LaserJock: ah, okay
[01:50] <Madpilot> ...and wait, and wait... :P
[01:50] <Burgwork> robotgeek, are you already a member of Ubuntu-doc on LP?
[01:51] <robotgeek> Burgwork: only the wiki team, i think. i applied to join, never heard of what happened
[01:51] <LaserJock> Burgwork: he is a fresh Ubuntu member though
[01:51] <robotgeek> You are a proposed member of this team. To become an active member your subscription has to bo approved by one of the team's administrators. You can't join this team.
[01:52] <Madpilot> Burgwork: you're an LP admin for -doc, aren't you?
[01:54] <Burgwork> for both doc and wiki
[01:54] <Burgwork> mdke, any objections to making robotgeek a member of ubunut-doc?
[01:55] <Burgwork> robotgeek, what is your LP name?
[01:55] <LaserJock> Madpilot: who needed something committed?
[01:55] <robotgeek> https://launchpad.net/people/robotgeek
[01:56] <Madpilot> LaserJock: manicka sent a diff to the list
[01:56] <Burgwork> robotgeek, you are a member of the wiki team
[01:56] <robotgeek> Burgwork: yes, but not the -doc team, if that makes any diffference
[01:57] <LaserJock> Madpilot: argg, who's manicka?
[01:57] <Burgwork> robotgeek, for the doc team I generally ask mdke and jerome if they also approve
[01:57] <Madpilot> LaserJock: Grant
[01:57] <manicka> wait on that diff
[01:57] <LaserJock> Madpilot: oh
[01:57] <robotgeek> Burgwork: sure, no issues. I just need to get my patches in :)
[01:57] <manicka> I'm sending an update
[01:57] <Madpilot> LaserJock: GrAnT GaLbRaiTh 	
[01:57] <manicka> that's me
[01:58] <LaserJock> Madpilot: ok
[01:58] <Madpilot> manicka: I know; LaserJock's got commit rights, though, so he's useful :P
[01:59] <Burgwork> I do to, but I am almost never at a machine that I can actually commit from
[01:59] <Burgwork> anyway, it is the weekend and I am heading home
[02:01] <robotgeek> brb
[02:05] <ompaul> right I am off to sleep - I'll do more over the weekend
[02:05] <ompaul> cheers
[02:08] <LaserJock> manicka: so it's ok to apply this diff?
[02:18] <LaserJock> manicka: done ;-)
[03:04] <manicka> robotgeek, what areas of the kubuntu guide need some love at the moment?
[03:05] <robotgeek> manicka: hmm, uno momento
[03:06] <robotgeek> manicka: if we maintain the structure of Ubuntu Desktop Guide, 4. Configuring Your System needs lots of love
[03:07] <robotgeek> no one is working on it atm, i'm trying to wrap up chapter 3. Common Tasks tommorow
[03:07] <Madpilot> don't forget that mdke and I have drastically changed some of the structure of the UDG in the past two weeks, as well... :P
[03:07] <manicka> k, I'll have a look
[03:08] <robotgeek> Madpilot: i copied the structure today, i need to make common tasks to be similiar
[03:08] <robotgeek> Madpilot: i was tempted to write the apt-get section :)
[03:08] <Madpilot> robotgeek: go ahead, we can copy it back into UDG as well
[03:09] <robotgeek> Madpilot: yeah, i just got lazy, and did not write it, lol
[03:10] <robotgeek> Madpilot: i'm going over to a friends place, so i doubt i'll get any work done this weekend
[03:10] <manicka> how much detail would w e want in an apt-get guide
[03:10] <manicka> just the basics?
[03:11] <Madpilot> we're concentrating on the GUI methods - Add App/Synaptic - so just a basic couple of paragraphs on apt-get should be enough
[03:12] <manicka> ok
[03:13] <robotgeek> manicka: you can take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AddingRepositoriesCliHowto
[05:10] <theCore> hello LaserJock
[05:10] <LaserJock> hi theCore 
[05:12] <LaserJock> theCore: did you see my commit?
[05:12] <theCore> not yet
[05:12] <LaserJock> I really rearranged stuff
[05:14] <theCore> I didn't received the -commit yet
[05:14] <theCore> wait, I got it
[05:16] <theCore> yep, it is better
[05:18] <crimsun> crap, do I need to check out again?
[05:20] <LaserJock> crimsun: you could just do a "svn up" if you want. we just messed around with the introduction and getting started sections
[05:21] <LaserJock> crimsun: but you don't have to if you don't want to ;-)
[05:21] <theCore> LaserJock: where I could get a html built ? I doesn't have SVN on my other machine (I'm installing DapperFlight4 right now, on mine ) 
[05:21] <crimsun> ah, in desktopguide
[05:21] <crimsun> orthogonal to my revisions, so it's golden
[05:21] <LaserJock> crimsun: what about desktopguide?
[05:21] <LaserJock> crimsun: no, it was in the packaging guide
[05:22] <LaserJock> crimsun: sorry :(
[05:22] <crimsun> hmm
[05:22] <crimsun> must not have propagated yet
[05:22] <crimsun> U    ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks.xml
[05:22] <crimsun> Updated to revision 2488.
[05:22] <LaserJock> crimsun: you might have already gotten my changes
[05:22] <crimsun> ah
[05:22] <LaserJock> 2487 was the changes
[05:23] <LaserJock> so your good
[05:23] <theCore> LaserJock: hey you wiped my comments :?
[05:24] <LaserJock> theCore: well, I was having problems with my copy-n-paste so I didn't redo them? do you want them?
[05:24] <LaserJock> theCore: I don't know that we need them, do we?
[05:25] <theCore> not really, I liked the idea of commenting for the other peoples that could help on the writing, though
[05:26] <LaserJock> theCore: if you want, the next diff you sennd I'll include them, ok?
[05:28] <theCore> alright, but I don't know if will redo them
[06:37] <LaserJock> mhz: done with your css?
[06:37] <mhz> almost
[06:37] <mhz> my headache is killing me
[06:37] <LaserJock> bummer
[06:37] <mhz> it has been like this for the last 48 hours or so
[06:38] <mhz> I can hardly sleep
[06:38] <LaserJock> ugghh
[06:38] <LaserJock> and your on a computer?
[06:38] <mhz> and I can hardly stay up or sit
[06:38] <mhz> the last couple of hours.. yes
[06:38] <mhz> because i had a lapsus of recovery
[06:47] <mhz> bye all
[07:02] <manicka> just submitted diff for add-applications.xml to list
[07:02] <manicka> overview of apt-get
[10:36] <mdke> morning
[10:41] <rob> hi mdke 
[10:43] <mdke> yo
[10:43] <mdke> how's it going rob?
[10:43] <rob> not bad, yourself?
[10:45] <mdke> very well thanks
[10:47] <Madpilot> mdke: thanks for asking for my commit access again... we'll see what happens
[10:48] <mdke> Madpilot, np
[10:48] <mdke> manicka's patch is pretty good
[10:48] <mdke> i'm just making a few changes and then I'll commit it
[10:49] <Madpilot> the apt-get one? haven't looked at the diff, but it'll be nice to have something there
[10:50] <mdke> yeah, it's good stuff
[10:50] <Madpilot> good
[10:51] <mdke> what Laserjock said about the "You must use synaptic to install this package" notes, he has a point...
[10:51] <mdke> maybe we should say "Use synaptic or apt to install this", or "This is not available in Add/Remove Applications"
[10:51] <mdke> dunno
[10:52] <Madpilot> I don't like the idea of "This is not available in Add/Remove Applications" - we should always point out where it *is* available
[10:53] <mdke> yeah i agree
[10:53] <mdke> mvo suggested that we could make a list of all the packages we cite which aren't available, and he would make them available.
[10:53] <mdke> i don't know whether that is workable though
[10:53] <Madpilot> in Add App?
[10:54] <mdke> yes
[10:55] <Madpilot> including stuff like codecs that're never going to have .desktop files?
[10:55] <mdke> yes, he would make dummy desktop files
[10:55] <Madpilot> interesting - I don't think it's needed, though - people should be introduced to Synaptic eventually, after all
[10:57] <mdke> i tend to agree
[10:57] <mdke> and I can't be bothered to make such a list
[10:57] <Madpilot> there's that, too :P
[10:57] <mdke> I've opened a bug on the codecs though, because they are so popular
[10:58] <Madpilot> desktop files for them?
[10:58] <mdke> yeah
[10:59] <Madpilot> makes sense - they've got to be the single most-installed set of packages
[10:59] <mdke> yeah
[11:00] <rob> mdke, when will the docs be frozen?
[11:00] <mdke> ok, we now have an APT section
[11:00] <mdke> rob, 23 March
[11:00] <mdke> iirc
[11:00] <rob> ah
[11:00] <mdke> check the ReleaseSchedule
[11:00] <rob> maybe I can do some proof reading or something, time has been getting away from me lately
[11:00] <mdke> hopefully we can start translating earlier though, they are in pretty good shape
[11:01] <mdke> rob, that would be cool. The server guide especially needs a bit of reviewing love
[11:02] <mdke> rob, we've started updating the status tags so it should be pretty obvious from http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/status
[11:03] <rob> ok, I'll check it out
[11:03] <rob> I'll have to send patches though if I need to
[11:03] <mdke> oh?
[11:03] <mdke> lost your password?
[11:04] <mdke> we can ask elmo to resend it
[11:04] <rob> yeah, mostly because I did the job on my PC and forgot to back up my gpg key
[11:04] <mdke> ouch
[11:04] <mdke> what's now known as "doing a Madpilot"
[11:04] <rob> hehe
[11:04] <Madpilot> no, I still had my GPG key, but I'd forgotten my password :P
[11:05] <mdke> oh yeah
[11:05] <rob> yeah I dont't have both
[11:05] <Madpilot> I think Corey nuked one of his GPG keys reformatting, though
[11:05] <mdke> "doing a corey" then
[11:05] <mdke> Madpilot, see the APT section?
[11:05] <Madpilot> just updating now
[11:05] <rob> I did a CoreyMadpilot
[11:06] <mdke> Madpilot, by the way, I've introduced a few <warning> things for the DVD section and codecs and such, lemme know what you think about those
[11:06] <mdke> oh and in the "extra repositories" section
[11:07] <Madpilot> looks good - esp. the Apt section
[11:08] <Madpilot> I might re-write the Synaptic section there sometime this weekend - it's suffering from a bit of excess verbiage...
[11:09] <mdke> alright
[11:09] <mdke> the paras are a bit long yeah
[11:10] <mdke> i'm just adding some sudo notes to each of those sections
[11:10] <mdke> i LOVE the way yelp displays notes and warnings and stuff
[11:10] <mdke> makes the page look a lot better
[11:11] <Madpilot> the styling is pretty cool - I'm still getting my head around how much more powerful XML/DocBook is compared to regular HTML/CSS
[11:12] <mdke> ok committed
[11:12] <mdke> I've marked everything as complete except for the synaptic section :D
[11:14] <Madpilot> cool. that bash alias I posted to the list is so useful - saves a lot of typing during svn updates :P
[11:14] <mdke> yeah I need to apply that
[04:39] <dsas> mdke: ping
[04:42] <mdke> dsas, pong
[04:45] <dsas> mdke: reading the "windows partition" bit, it tells people to read "list devices" but doesn't really tell people what they should be looking for inside it. Should I write an explanation on the "list devices" bit and explain what they're looking at, or should I explain in the "mount windows partitions bit"?
[04:45] <dsas> mdke: rather it doesn't tell people what they're looking for in the "mount" output.
[04:46] <mdke> yes, that could be clearer, I guess
[04:46] <mdke> if you'd like to expand on the "list devices" section, that would be cool
[04:46] <dsas> oh, hang on, I just realised that the "mount windows partitions" refers to disks manager and not 'list devices' 
[04:48] <mdke> oh yeah
[04:48] <mdke> well, any more material there would probably be good
[04:48] <dsas> ok, I'll have a look at it.
[08:33] <LaserJock> hi Madpilot 
[08:33] <Madpilot> hi LaserJock
[11:15] <LaserJock> hi manicka 
[11:15] <manicka> morning :)
[11:28] <robotgeek> hey manicka LaserJock
[11:29] <manicka> hey
[11:29] <LaserJock> hi robotgeek 
[11:29] <robotgeek> hopefully i will finish "common-tasks.xml" today, and someone will commit it :)
[11:36] <mdke> i think we can start committing your stuff straight off
[11:36] <mdke> making jjesse do it all is unrealistic, and you are in charge of that doc, so we can just commit no questions asked, IMO
[11:36] <robotgeek> mdke: yes, that would be nice. 
[11:36] <LaserJock> if it is ok, I can do a lot of it.
[11:36] <robotgeek> i have about 3 different sets of patches yet to be applied, 2 are one liners, and 1 is major
[11:37] <mdke> hmm
[11:37] <mdke> mail me a single patch?
[11:37] <mdke> with your working copy
[11:37] <robotgeek> hmm, or you could just apply the big patch now, (one i mailed yesterday) and i will send in the onliners in my next set?
[11:38] <mdke> ok, I'll see if it applies without the others
[11:38] <mdke> gah
[11:38] <mdke> there are four of em
[11:38] <robotgeek> mdke: yes, it does. the first one is for adept, so not to worry about that. 
[11:39] <robotgeek> pretty self explanatory, i guess :)
[11:40] <mdke> robotgeek, i'm lazy, send me one patch for your whole kubuntu/ directory
[11:40] <mdke> or will that step on peoples' toes?
[11:40] <robotgeek> mdke: hmm, not really. one moment
[11:42] <robotgeek> mdke: i am not done with common-tasks.xml yet, so i'll send you a big diff when i am done?
[11:43] <mdke> sure, I'll apply it tomorrow morning
[11:44] <robotgeek> cool, hopefully i'll be done with that. doing the whole lists -> procedures conversion right now
[11:45] <mdke> find/replace :)
[11:45] <robotgeek> mdke: yes, also cleaning up the info. merging stuff from UDG too :)
[11:46] <mdke> cool, yeah that's not an easy job
[11:47] <robotgeek> well, basically editing the UDG file and pasting where relevant in KDG
[11:48] <robotgeek> i suddenly also had the urge to clean out my vimrc :)
[11:50] <LaserJock> robotgeek: really? I'd be interested in a pastebin of that
[11:51] <mdke> Madpilot, i changed the css for the web guides today, any thoughts?
[11:51] <robotgeek> LaserJock: sure
[11:51] <mdke> manicka, thanks for your patch by the way, that was really helpful
[11:51] <Madpilot> mdke: haven't looked, will now
[11:51] <manicka> np
[11:52] <mdke> Madpilot, http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/index.html
[11:52] <manicka> why is there 4 versions of add-applications now
[11:52] <LaserJock> mdke: the css for doc.ubuntu.com?
[11:53] <robotgeek> LaserJock: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9330
[11:53] <LaserJock> robotgeek: thanks
[11:53] <Madpilot> mdke: looks good
[11:54] <LaserJock> mdke: I noticed that packaging guide looked different, I like it.
[11:54] <mdke> good
[11:54] <mdke> the lines are a bit closer, and the margins larger, that's about it
[11:54] <mdke> manicka, 4 versions?
[11:56] <robotgeek> LaserJock: not much there, i guess :)
[11:57] <manicka> mdke: in the desktop guide there are 4 versions of add-applications.xml sitting there
[11:58] <mdke> manicka, maybe your editor saves old versions? do "svn status" to see which files are under version control
[11:58] <mdke> files which are local to your system are marked with "?"
[11:59] <manicka> no locals, these appeared when I did an update this morning
[11:59] <robotgeek> manicka: do you have something file.xml.mine, file.xml.rxyz
[12:00] <manicka> robotgeek: yes
[12:00] <mdke> manicka, https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/
[12:00] <mdke> it's definitely local stuff
[12:00] <manicka> ok, just deleted them then updated, all is well
[12:01] <mdke> i wonder why they didn't show up with svn status
[12:01] <mdke> weird
[12:02] <manicka> nice changes to APT, btw
[12:03] <mdke> thanks to you for starting it off :)
[12:04] <manicka> it's a pleasure, I can see myself enjoying docbook as i get used to it more