| marcin` | got a question | 12:10 |
|---|---|---|
| marcin` | could someone tell me it this is acceptable to create package that could change config file created by another package? | 12:11 |
| marcin` | s/me it/me if it/ | 12:12 |
| marcin` | ehh | 12:12 |
| marcin` | sorry I'm tired - my english sucks - but I hope you get my point | 12:12 |
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| crimsun | as in package X would alter a conffile of package Y? | 12:13 |
| marcin` | crimsun: yes | 12:13 |
| crimsun | I'm pretty sure directly doing so is a grave Policy violation | 12:13 |
| marcin` | I give an example - I would like to add language pack for some app | 12:14 |
| marcin` | and I need to add this language to some Array entry in main package config | 12:15 |
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| marcin` | is this acceptable? or policy violation? | 12:15 |
| crimsun | http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html#s10.7.4 | 12:18 |
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| marcin` | crimsun: thanks | 12:19 |
| crimsun | marcin`: np | 12:20 |
| minghua | hello LaserJock | 12:22 |
| marcin` | crimsun: ok this is pretty clear | 12:23 |
| marcin` | crimsun: but now I don't know how to do one thing | 12:24 |
| marcin` | crimsun: maybe you could have some idea | 12:24 |
| marcin` | crimsun: thing is: I got package X that depends on A | B | C | 12:24 |
| marcin` | crimsun: so I can install any: A | B or C to satisfy dependency | 12:25 |
| marcin` | crimsun: then I got a little problem because I need to create some postinst script in X | 12:25 |
| marcin` | crimsun: because it has to set some settings in it's config file | 12:25 |
| marcin` | crimsun: it has to set if there is A or B or C installed | 12:26 |
| marcin` | crimsun: but it is doable | 12:26 |
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| marcin` | crimsun: problem is that for example I can install X + A + C | 12:27 |
| marcin` | crimsun: dependency will be ok | 12:27 |
| marcin` | crimsun: but then I can remove C - apt will not complain because there is still A | 12:27 |
| crimsun | marcin`: do A && B && C all share one conffile? | 12:27 |
| marcin` | crimsun: so still no problem with dependencies | 12:27 |
| marcin` | crimsun: but then how could I force X to update it's conffile because C is removed? | 12:28 |
| marcin` | crimsun: I think that X will own conffile and will create this with postinst | 12:28 |
| marcin` | crimsun: so postinst script could detect if for example there is A and C | 12:29 |
| marcin` | crimsun: and will set this in conffile | 12:29 |
| crimsun | that seems unwise architecturally | 12:30 |
| marcin` | crimsun: I know but don't have any better idea... | 12:31 |
| LaserJock | marcin`: why isn't this stuff just all in the same package? | 12:31 |
| marcin` | crimsun: and this is why I ask gere | 12:31 |
| marcin` | here | 12:31 |
| marcin` | LaserJock: because they got different sources, separate development and can be pretty big | 12:31 |
| crimsun | ok, do you have control over A, B, and C? | 12:32 |
| marcin` | crimsun: what do you mean 'control' ? | 12:32 |
| crimsun | marcin`: what is the relation of X to A | B | C ? | 12:32 |
| marcin` | crimsun: X needs at last one of them to work properly | 12:33 |
| marcin` | crimsun: let's say that X is application and A = english | B = german | C = polish lang packs | 12:33 |
| marcin` | crimsun: and then there has to be at least one for this app to work | 12:34 |
| marcin` | crimsun: but this application X has to know about them - it needs a list of languages in conffile | 12:34 |
| marcin` | crimsun: if I set up dependency X -> A | B | C then I could install only B | 12:35 |
| marcin` | crimsun: and because X depends on B then B will be installed first then X | 12:35 |
| minghua | one possible solution I can see is not making said config file a conffile | 12:36 |
| marcin` | crimsun: so, postinst in X will know that B is available and will add info about B to conffile | 12:36 |
| minghua | but provide a tool in X to generate said file according to other configurations | 12:36 |
| minghua | then call said tool in A, B, C 's postinst and postrm | 12:37 |
| marcin` | crimsun: but then if I'll add C and A there will be no way to add these to conffile owned by X | 12:37 |
| crimsun | yeah, that's the issue I'm trying to think of | 12:37 |
| marcin` | crimsun: without dpkg-reconfigure X | 12:37 |
| crimsun | because you don't necessarily have control over A's, B's, or C's prerm | 12:37 |
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| marcin` | minghua: could you tell more about your solution? | 12:43 |
| marcin` | minghua: I don't understand it yet | 12:43 |
| crimsun | that solution is akin to what language-pack-* do | 12:43 |
| marcin` | crimsun: yes but unfortunately not in 100% | 12:45 |
| crimsun | language-pack-* depend on locales, and each time a language-pack-* is installed, /usr/share/locales/install-language-pack is invoked | 12:45 |
| crimsun | yes, that's the issue of "control" that I'm referring to | 12:45 |
| marcin` | crimsun: because you can remove all language-pack- and applications that use languages | 12:45 |
| crimsun | because to have X function as you wish, you need to provide a means for A, B, and/or C to call some utility provided by X | 12:45 |
| marcin` | crimsun: will still work and will be set to default english | 12:45 |
| marcin` | crimsun: so you can remove all lang packs and for example gnome will still work | 12:46 |
| marcin` | crimsun: my X'app won't | 12:46 |
| minghua | marcin`: that doesn't really matter, you can enforce that one of A, B or C must be installed by dependency | 12:49 |
| minghua | to make it easier to talk, say your X needs a /etc/X.conf config file | 12:49 |
| marcin` | ok and? | 12:50 |
| minghua | you don't ship it in your X package, but provide a /usr/bin/update-X-config tool to generate it | 12:50 |
| minghua | then your A, B, C can each ship a /etc/X.conf.d/{A,B,C} respectively | 12:51 |
| minghua | the update-X-config tool can read these files in /etc/X.conf.d/ and generate a /etc/X.conf file accordingly | 12:51 |
| minghua | now you have X Depends: on A | B | C, and have A, B, and C's postinst and postrm scripts all call /usr/bin/update-X-config | 12:52 |
| minghua | I think your problem should be solved | 12:52 |
| marcin` | minghua: you are optimist ;) | 12:53 |
| crimsun | it's more problematic if he's dealing with actual language packs, though, because he doesn't control their post* | 12:53 |
| minghua | well, optimist for other people's problem :-) | 12:53 |
| marcin` | minghua: because this config file has to be in php syntax | 12:53 |
| minghua | crimsun: that's true, I am assuming he has complete control for all X, A, B and C packages | 12:53 |
| marcin` | minghua: I will have complete control over X,A,B,C and D-Z ;) | 12:54 |
| crimsun | oh, in that case the "problem" is moot | 12:55 |
| crimsun | I'm thinking more along the lines of actual language packs, where you might want to compare a hash of the mtime of /var/lib/locales/ | 12:55 |
| crimsun | it sounds like your issue is much simpler :) | 12:56 |
| marcin` | hmm ok maybe but I see a little issue here... | 12:57 |
| marcin` | I got X and it provides 'configUpdateTool' | 12:57 |
| marcin` | and it depends on A | B | C and minghua says that they should call this configUpdateTool from their postinst? | 12:58 |
| marcin` | but they cannot while they don't depend on X :) | 12:58 |
| marcin` | and if X depends on A/B/C then one of them will be installed first ;) | 12:59 |
| crimsun | if A | B | C use a conffile that X owns, then they each must depend on X | 12:59 |
| marcin` | so X-> A | B | C and A->X B->X and so on? | 01:00 |
| minghua | hmm, good point | 01:00 |
| minghua | that would be a circular dependency | 01:00 |
| minghua | now I know why there is a libgtk2.0-bin package :-) | 01:00 |
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| LaserJock | hmm, I say upload it and see how many users complain ;-) | 01:01 |
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| crimsun | yep, that's why a lot of packages split out -base and -common, etc. | 01:01 |
| minghua | marcin`: split X to two packages, X and X-bin, X would depends on X-bin and A | B | C, but A, B, and C will only depend on X-bin, not X | 01:01 |
| minghua | LaserJock: that seems to be some maintainer's opnion as well, unfortunately :-( | 01:02 |
| LaserJock | minghua: I don't know that it would make it past REVU and elmo though | 01:03 |
| marcin` | minghua: and which package should own this config-tool? X or X-bin ? | 01:03 |
| crimsun | the latter | 01:03 |
| crimsun | (if you used the former, you'd be in precisely the predicament we've all described) | 01:04 |
| marcin` | I see smoke over my head.... | 01:04 |
| marcin` | so I install X-bin first... | 01:05 |
| minghua | LaserJock: well, as a matter of fact, they do | 01:05 |
| marcin` | then X which depends on A/B/C so at least one of them will have to be installed right? | 01:05 |
| marcin` | so they will run some ConfTool from X-bin to generate config for X ? | 01:06 |
| marcin` | am I right? | 01:06 |
| minghua | LaserJock: I was sad to see the /usr/lib/pkgconfig/*.pc files installed in skim package, instead of libskim-dev, for example | 01:06 |
| minghua | apparently the maintainer hasn't tried using libskim-dev in a pbuilder himself | 01:07 |
| minghua | marcin`: roughly right, although you don't need to install X-bin first | 01:08 |
| minghua | I believe you can install them together | 01:08 |
| minghua | I think A depending X-bin will make sure X-bin is unpacked and configured when A's postinst runs (but I may be wrong) | 01:09 |
| marcin` | ok let's assume | 01:09 |
| minghua | now after saying that, apparently postrm is not a good place as when running A's postrm X-bin can be already removed... | 01:09 |
| marcin` | I run: apt-get install X | 01:09 |
| marcin` | it will install X-bin, A, and X | 01:10 |
| marcin` | and it's ok | 01:10 |
| crimsun | in that case you want X-bin to be a PreDepends of A,B,C | 01:10 |
| marcin` | then I want to install B so I run | 01:10 |
| marcin` | apt-get install B | 01:10 |
| marcin` | X-bin is already there so this will install without problem | 01:11 |
| marcin` | but then how will X know that B is installed? | 01:11 |
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| marcin` | B will have to update configuration? | 01:12 |
| crimsun | actually no, don't use PreDepends, as that's a special corner case | 01:12 |
| crimsun | Policy 7.2 states that if configuring X is delayed until all of X-bin, A, B, and C are configured | 01:13 |
| crimsun | s/if// | 01:13 |
| crimsun | or in your case, until X and at least one of A | B | C | 01:13 |
| crimsun | argh | 01:13 |
| crimsun | until X-bin and at least one of A | B | C | 01:13 |
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| atie_ | hi, all | 01:36 |
| LaserJock | hi atie_ | 01:36 |
| atie_ | hi, LaserJock. | 01:37 |
| atie_ | minghua, ping. | 01:37 |
| Se7h | hi | 01:56 |
| LaserJock | hi Se7h | 01:57 |
| Se7h | hey there LaserJock | 01:57 |
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| atie_ | After writing uvf exception to motu ml, then do I need to upload source package to REVU by myself? | 02:24 |
| crimsun | is it a sync, a merge, or a new upstream not in Debian? | 02:24 |
| crimsun | (syncs don't need to be uploaded to REVU) | 02:24 |
| atie_ | Updated version is in Debian. | 02:25 |
| crimsun | so it's a sync or a merge? | 02:25 |
| atie_ | It's sync, I guess. | 02:25 |
| crimsun | then there's no need to upload to REVU | 02:25 |
| freeflying | atie_: hi | 02:25 |
| atie_ | freeflying, hi | 02:26 |
| atie_ | crimsun, then just wait for approval? | 02:26 |
| crimsun | yes | 02:26 |
| freeflying | atie_: ttf-alee has new upstream released | 02:26 |
| atie_ | freeflying, yes. I wrote uvf-exception for that. | 02:36 |
| minghua | atie_: pong | 02:42 |
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| atie_ | minghua, thank for the mail. | 02:54 |
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| minghua | atie_: ah, sure, you are welcome :-) | 03:06 |
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| zakame | hi MOTUs | 03:06 |
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| atie_ | minghua, does corrected one look OK? | 03:17 |
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| Hobbsee | bug 8681 | 03:23 |
| Ubugtu | malone bug 8681 in control-center capplets "Changing keyboard layouts in keyboard configuration applet gives an error" [Normal,Rejected] http://launchpad.net/bugs/8681 | 03:23 |
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| minghua | atie_: haven't looked carefully yet, will reply tonight | 03:38 |
| atie_ | minghua, thank you. | 03:39 |
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| LaserJock | hi bmonty | 03:43 |
| bmonty | hey LaserJock | 03:43 |
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| Psi-Jack | Hmm. Where's the basic docs on building a new package? :/ | 05:33 |
| LaserJock | Psi-Jack: I'd check out some of the links at wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide/Resources | 05:34 |
| Psi-Jack | I think I found it. Finally. ;) | 05:34 |
| crimsun | that looks familiar, LaserJock ;) | 05:35 |
| Psi-Jack | I'm trying to upgrade mldonkey-server to 2.7.3 for me. heh | 05:36 |
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| LaserJock | crimsun: yep | 05:36 |
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| zakame | afternoon MOTUs | 07:16 |
| Gloubiboulga | morning zakame ;) | 07:18 |
| zakame | heya Gloubiboulga! :D | 07:18 |
| Hobbsee | hey zakame | 07:19 |
| Hobbsee | hey Gloubiboulga | 07:19 |
| Gloubiboulga | hi Hobbsee | 07:19 |
| === Hobbsee wishes her machine built quicker! | ||
| zakame | heya Hobbsee! | 07:22 |
| Hobbsee | :) | 07:23 |
| zakame | built what? | 07:23 |
| Hobbsee | kdenetwork | 07:24 |
| Hobbsee | trying to patch it, we'll see if it works | 07:24 |
| Hobbsee | heh, doesnt work - wont even build | 07:34 |
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| zakame | evening MOTUs | 02:02 |
| freeflying | zakame: evening | 02:02 |
| zakame | hi freeflying :) | 02:03 |
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| xerxas | hi | 03:03 |
| xerxas | we're already in the freeze ? | 03:03 |
| xerxas | oops | 03:03 |
| xerxas | topic | 03:03 |
| xerxas | sorry guys | 03:03 |
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| LaserJock | ok, I must admit I'm a little confused about UVF exceptions | 08:11 |
| LaserJock | it seems like anything that isn't going to cause problems is getting an exception. I thought it had to be important, bug-fix only changes. | 08:12 |
| bmonty | I think that if a package doesn't have any packages that depend on it, the UVF exception is a formality | 08:25 |
| LaserJock | hmm, well I wish I had known that earlier | 08:25 |
| bmonty | why is that? | 08:26 |
| LaserJock | because there are quite a few science related packages that I could've gotten in | 08:26 |
| bmonty | LaserJock: well there is always dapper+1 :) | 08:27 |
| LaserJock | bmonty: yes, I just wish I had known. I guess I was taking UVF more seriously than I needed to | 08:28 |
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| Kyral | LaserJock: just get them in Debian and then Sync them when Dapper+1 opens :D | 08:31 |
| LaserJock | Kyral: I'm talking about syncing from Debian now. I think we could more updated science packages if I had know earlier | 08:32 |
| Kyral | ah | 08:32 |
| Kyral | soerry lol | 08:33 |
| LaserJock | hmm, yeah. we are up to 98 outdated packages in Dapper for MOTU Science. | 08:34 |
| Kyral | heh | 08:35 |
| Kyral | I may cleanup EasyChem soon | 08:35 |
| Kyral | like in debian/ | 08:36 |
| Kyral | oh...are any outstanding accepted UVF Exceptions going to be brought in? | 08:36 |
| LaserJock | Kyral: what do you mean? | 08:36 |
| Kyral | Daniel accepted the UVFE for GTKEdit a couple weeks ago but I haven't seen it sync'd | 08:37 |
| Kyral | or Accepted | 08:38 |
| LaserJock | Kyral: well the syncs and NEW are pretty backed up | 08:39 |
| Kyral | ah | 08:39 |
| LaserJock | are UVF exceptions harder to get after FF? | 08:39 |
| LaserJock | I might try to get a few in before Dapper is released | 08:40 |
| Kyral | hmm | 08:53 |
| Kyral | I should write a script to build the newest XFCE from SVN | 08:53 |
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| toma | Kyral: out of curiousity, do you know how many users use xfce as primary desktop? | 10:15 |
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| marcin` | do I need to be MOTU to post comment to REVU? | 10:20 |
| Gloubiboulga | marcin`, I think so | 10:20 |
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| marcin` | Gloubiboulga: comments to my own packages too :) ? | 10:21 |
| Gloubiboulga | oh | 10:22 |
| Gloubiboulga | you have to login to comment your packages | 10:22 |
| marcin` | I'm in - and what then? | 10:23 |
| Gloubiboulga | marcin`, the comment form is on the bottom of your package page | 10:25 |
| Gloubiboulga | if you're correctly logged in, you can see and use it | 10:25 |
| marcin` | ehhh I see... it's because I'm comaintainer and maintainer did last upload | 10:26 |
| marcin` | so I cannot post comment to this package | 10:26 |
| marcin` | ok thanks | 10:26 |
| Gloubiboulga | np | 10:26 |
| marcin` | now I know what to do | 10:26 |
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| marcin` | another question - is REVU for new packages only? | 10:39 |
| jpatrick | no | 10:39 |
| marcin` | what if I would like to repackage some existing apps? | 10:39 |
| jpatrick | not if someone's working on it | 10:39 |
| marcin` | working -> you mean in REVU? | 10:40 |
| jpatrick | recently updated | 10:41 |
| marcin` | jpatrick: recently updated in REVU or in universe? | 10:41 |
| jpatrick | revu | 10:41 |
| TomaszD | excuse, there was talk on the motu list to update psi to 0.10. I still don't see Psi updated and it's been a big while. Any news on this? | 10:42 |
| marcin` | jpatrick: ok | 10:42 |
| marcin` | jpatrick: but what if there is some package but I would like to prepare the same software but in different way? | 10:43 |
| jpatrick | I think no | 10:43 |
| marcin` | jpatrick: for example: I would like to use CDBS while currently someone doesn't want to... etc. ? | 10:43 |
| marcin` | jpatrick: what then? | 10:43 |
| jpatrick | well you'll overwrite they're fiels | 10:44 |
| bmonty | marcin`: why repackage an app just to change the packaging system? | 10:44 |
| marcin` | bmonty: it was just an example | 10:45 |
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| bmonty | marcin`: it is better to coordinate your changes with the person who packaged the app in the first place | 10:46 |
| marcin` | bmonty: sure but what if we don't agre? | 10:47 |
| marcin` | agree? | 10:47 |
| marcin` | bmonty: and have different visions? | 10:47 |
| bmonty | marcin`: is this a hypothetical question, or are you currently trying to make a change the packager doesn't agree with | 10:49 |
| marcin` | bmonty: I'm not sure if I want to... because I'm tired, annoyed etc. so I'll propably just leave this | 10:50 |
| marcin` | bmonty: but there is such possibility | 10:50 |
| marcin` | bmonty: just asking now | 10:50 |
| bmonty | marcin`: I guess I would say that in general you should coordinate your changes, but if you can't resolve them you should discuss your proposed changes here | 10:51 |
| marcin` | bmonty: it's pretty hard while I'm not MOTU (yet) | 10:51 |
| marcin` | bmonty: and cannot comment uploads | 10:52 |
| jpatrick | email to packager then | 10:53 |
| marcin` | jpatrick: sure but it's not good idea when packager rejects changes right? | 10:54 |
| jpatrick | it's up to him | 10:54 |
| jpatrick | or her | 10:54 |
| spacey | if i want to add items to the gnome menu systemwide, where do i have to throw the desktop files? /usr/share/applications? | 10:56 |
| Gloubiboulga | spacey, yes | 10:57 |
| spacey | do i need to run a scrip to update the menu? | 10:57 |
| spacey | or is it automagicly | 10:57 |
| Gloubiboulga | I think you have to run dh_desktop (not sure of this) | 10:58 |
| spacey | update-desktop-database | 11:00 |
| spacey | seems to be called from dh_desktop | 11:00 |
| spacey | ah crap | 11:03 |
| spacey | not that easy | 11:03 |
| Gloubiboulga | what's the problem spacey ? | 11:05 |
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| spacey | well its not about packaging | 11:06 |
| spacey | just wanted to quickly add a few items systemwide | 11:07 |
| LaserJock_away | hi minghua | 11:09 |
| Gloubiboulga | LaserJock, hi | 11:10 |
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| Gloubiboulga | LaserJock, I've sent a mail to the debian mentors ML to find a sponsor for my texmaker package | 11:11 |
| minghua | hi LaserJock | 11:11 |
| LaserJock | hi Gloubiboulga | 11:11 |
| LaserJock | Gloubiboulga: I saw that, great | 11:11 |
| Gloubiboulga | I hope someone will be interested :) | 11:11 |
| minghua | Gloubiboulga: yeah, just saw that, good luck | 11:11 |
| Gloubiboulga | thanks minghua :) | 11:11 |
| Gloubiboulga | my first debian contribution... | 11:11 |
| LaserJock | Gloubiboulga: yeah, I realy hope that gets through. I know there were quite a few posts on the ubuntufourms asking for a packag. | 11:14 |
| === minghua is glad to see texmaker 1.3-1 package having a much simpler dependency | ||
| === jpatrick really has to get his packages to debian | ||
| Gloubiboulga | I've also requested an UVF exception for this package | 11:16 |
| Gloubiboulga | I've also uploaded on REVU today | 11:16 |
| Gloubiboulga | +it | 11:16 |
| LaserJock | Gloubiboulga: I got about 4 emails from REVU this morning :-) | 11:17 |
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| Gloubiboulga | LaserJock, yeah, very minor fixe each time... but 4 uploads needed | 11:17 |
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| desrt | tseng; ! | 11:30 |
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| desrt | tseng; muine is a real pain in the ass for a few reasons right now | 11:31 |
| tseng | desrt: sorry to hear | 11:38 |
| tseng | desrt: my local copy is elite | 11:38 |
| tseng | desrt: ill upload it as soon as i get freeze aproval | 11:38 |
| desrt | tseng; rocking. | 11:38 |
| tseng | desrt: :D | 11:38 |
| desrt | tseng; does it have gst0.10 and working dbus? | 11:39 |
| tseng | desrt: mine does | 11:39 |
| desrt | i <3 you | 11:39 |
| tseng | desrt: im not sure if ill do gst0.10 | 11:39 |
| tseng | its in cvs | 11:39 |
| desrt | you need to | 11:39 |
| tseng | i might backport it | 11:39 |
| desrt | gst 0.8 doesn't exist in dapper, really | 11:39 |
| tseng | or snapshot | 11:39 |
| tseng | its not much of a backport, its well contained | 11:39 |
| desrt | i just debfostered my system today and it uninstalled all of my gst0.8 plugins because they're no longer part of ubuntu-desktop | 11:39 |
| tseng | just diff and go | 11:39 |
| desrt | so i had to reinstall alsa and vorbis to get muine going again | 11:40 |
| tseng | yeah i have another bug on that | 11:40 |
| tseng | someone actually managed to get a system without playbin | 11:40 |
| tseng | for 0.8 | 11:40 |
| desrt | the solution is not to introduce additional dependencies | 11:40 |
| desrt | the solution is 0.10 :) | 11:40 |
| tseng | I agree. | 11:40 |
| desrt | do you have anything for me to test? | 11:41 |
| tseng | not quite | 11:41 |
| desrt | k | 11:41 |
| tseng | in /usr/bin i have a copy of the 0.8.4 package from debian | 11:41 |
| tseng | in /usr/local/bin i have a build of HEAD with gst 0.10 | 11:42 |
| tseng | something in between is what ill upload | 11:42 |
| desrt | i have an irrational aversion to /usr/local | 11:42 |
| desrt | probably as a result of years of putting up with freebsd abusing my filesystem | 11:42 |
| tseng | i dont like to build random cvs crack in /usr | 11:42 |
| tseng | but yeah, bsd gets it not quite right | 11:42 |
| tseng | /usr/local/etc makes me stabby | 11:42 |
| desrt | :) | 11:43 |
| desrt | freebsd makes me feel like /usr/local isn't for me anymore | 11:43 |
| desrt | so i use /opt/gnome now | 11:43 |
| tseng | we have a "network device" at work called an f5 bigip | 11:43 |
| tseng | runs freebsd | 11:43 |
| tseng | its a ssl load balancer | 11:43 |
| tseng | complete crack | 11:43 |
| tseng | after the config file gets to a few thousand lines the web interface falls over and your configuration tool is classic vi | 11:44 |
| tseng | real men use ^h | 11:44 |
| desrt | I WANT TO FUCKING MURDER EVOLUTION | 11:47 |
| desrt | ahem | 11:47 |
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| tseng | i gave up evolution for lent | 11:47 |
| desrt | it sucks so fucking bad these days | 11:48 |
| desrt | it's seriously turning into a heaping pile of dung | 11:48 |
| tseng | go outsourcing | 11:48 |
| desrt | and thunderbird is so bloody ugly | 11:48 |
| LaserJock | I like thunderbird cause I can use it in linux, windows, and OSX but I haven't found a "Reply to list" button :( | 11:51 |
| dolson | same thing with Gmail for me.. no reply to list.. argh. stupid that only the Ubuntu lists don't set the ReplyTo | 11:51 |
| minghua | mutt rules ;-) | 11:51 |
| dolson | hey, are any of you guys using Xgl with Gnome? | 11:52 |
| desrt | i was. it's freakin' awesome | 11:55 |
| dolson | yes, it is awesome. | 11:55 |
| dolson | but I want to know if someone is using it right now and could test if MouseKeys works for them | 11:55 |
| === minghua wishes he has a video card with better opengl support | ||
| dolson | X crashes when I try to move the mouse cursor with Gnome mousekeys. | 11:56 |
| dolson | this is frustrating | 11:57 |
| tepsipakki | dolson: it crashed on me when I tried to write something with the shift down | 11:58 |
| tepsipakki | gave up then | 11:58 |
| dolson | lol | 11:58 |
| dolson | don't use caps! | 11:58 |
| tepsipakki | heh | 11:58 |
| tepsipakki | don't use environment variables :) | 11:58 |
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| dolson | argh, I can't take this anymore | 11:59 |
| LaserJock | hi crimsun | 12:00 |
| dolson | brb | 12:00 |
| LaserJock | right now I'm avoiding X anyway ;-) CLI for me | 12:00 |
| crimsun | hi LaserJock | 12:00 |
| crimsun | that's funny, I'm having my stint w/ Kubuntu ;-) | 12:01 |
| LaserJock | crimsun: cool | 12:01 |
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