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| setuid | infinity: Why no manpage for usplash? | 05:10 |
|---|---|---|
| setuid | tsk tsk! | 05:10 |
| setuid | And some wacky README about BOGL, but not usplash | 05:11 |
| setuid | oh, n/m... but the missing manpage is kind of a buggefr | 05:12 |
| setuid | er, bugger | 05:12 |
| lh317 | i think I'm of the mind bootup should be so fast tehre is no need for a splash screen ;) | 05:13 |
| lh317 | and on a server, why does it even have a monitor? ;) | 05:14 |
| setuid | I was just poking at it | 05:14 |
| setuid | it doesn't do anything anyway | 05:14 |
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| bintut | is ubuntu already good as production server? | 07:18 |
| lh317 | define "good" | 07:35 |
| lh317 | and "production" | 07:35 |
| bintut | mail server.. stable for production.. supported by community especially on security fixes.. | 07:36 |
| fabbione | yes | 07:38 |
| lh317 | well, the latter is questionable, as you have to run universe, adn universe isn't 'offically supported' | 07:38 |
| bintut | fabbione: you mean, ubuntu is already much like debian for its support? | 07:39 |
| lh317 | if you need an actual contracted support for security, you're stuck with RHEL or SUEL pretty much. | 07:39 |
| fabbione | lh317: wrong | 07:39 |
| lh317 | sine when have they reversed their universe policy? | 07:39 |
| fabbione | bintut: we do provide security updates for everything that is in main | 07:39 |
| fabbione | bintut: and that's for free | 07:40 |
| fabbione | bintut: time is about 18 months for breezy and 5 years for dapper | 07:40 |
| fabbione | bintut: if you need way more than that, i suggest you discuss a possible support contract with canonical | 07:40 |
| fabbione | lh317: no changes in that direction | 07:40 |
| lh317 | fabbione: then what I said is true. | 07:41 |
| lh317 | you have to run universe, unless all you want is just postfix or exim. | 07:41 |
| fabbione | <lh317> if you need an actual contracted support for security, you're stuck with RHEL or SUEL pretty much. | 07:41 |
| fabbione | this is wrong | 07:41 |
| fabbione | because Canonical do offer contracted support | 07:41 |
| lh317 | fabbione: for universe? | 07:41 |
| fabbione | and security for main has been always free | 07:41 |
| fabbione | lh317: if you need support for universe you can get it if you pay | 07:41 |
| lh317 | curiosity, link? | 07:41 |
| fabbione | but that's something you need to agree with Canonical | 07:41 |
| bintut | fabbione: i'm about to setup a server.. i can actually support my server but not the security fixes | 07:42 |
| fabbione | www.canonical.com ? | 07:42 |
| lh317 | link to pay support contracts for universe? | 07:42 |
| bintut | brb.. i have a phone call | 07:42 |
| fabbione | bintut: if your server is made only by pkgs in main, you get security for free | 07:42 |
| bintut | fabbione: i'll talk to you later.. | 07:42 |
| fabbione | lh317: that's something you discuss on a per contract base | 07:42 |
| bintut | fabbione: yeah.. | 07:42 |
| lh317 | fabbione: which means if you're not willing to deal, you're stuck. I'll amend then, if you need OOB support, you're stuck with RHEL or SUEL. | 07:43 |
| fabbione | lh317: ok.. let's put it in another way since you don't understand... | 07:44 |
| lh317 | can I buy a ubuntu cd and get unvierse support OOB? | 07:44 |
| fabbione | there are no ubuntu cd you can buy | 07:44 |
| lh317 | No. Therefore, if you need out of box security contract for the full offering, you arent running Ubuntu. | 07:44 |
| fabbione | ubuntu is free | 07:44 |
| lh317 | i didn't literally mean buy a cd. | 07:45 |
| fabbione | jeee you are so way out of your mind | 07:45 |
| lh317 | i can't get a universe support contract without negoiating. | 07:45 |
| lh317 | I can go to redhat.com and buy a contract with jsut a credit card and a mouse click. | 07:45 |
| fabbione | no because that would utterly expensive | 07:45 |
| lh317 | that is a big deal for some groups. | 07:45 |
| fabbione | how many packages are in rh? | 07:45 |
| fabbione | how many in universe? | 07:45 |
| fabbione | make a comparison | 07:46 |
| fabbione | than | 07:46 |
| fabbione | then | 07:46 |
| fabbione | think this way | 07:46 |
| fabbione | you have all main for freee | 07:46 |
| lh317 | fabbione: compared main to rhel, especially for a server. | 07:46 |
| fabbione | that's about dunno.. 4400 binary pkgs? | 07:46 |
| fabbione | if you need one or two pkgs from universe you pay only for those | 07:46 |
| fabbione | instead of paying BIGFAT amount for stuff you don't even need to care about | 07:46 |
| fabbione | but of course.. | 07:47 |
| fabbione | if you want to pay for everything you don't need.. go redhat | 07:47 |
| lh317 | ... you obviously missed the whole OOB part. | 07:47 |
| lh317 | if I'm installing a box for a customer, negoiating a support contract for a single box is out of the question. | 07:47 |
| lh317 | they won't do it, adn I can't act for them. | 07:48 |
| lh317 | of course, tbf, RHEL is a double-edged sword anyway. they have a package that can do what you want. But it isn't the package you want or the version you want. | 07:49 |
| bintut | fabbione: in that case, if i'll use dapper now as a server, the packages i fethed from the universe will not be updated to the latest security fixes? | 07:50 |
| fabbione | as i said many other times.. you choose what fits you best :) | 07:50 |
| fabbione | bintut: universe is not supported by default. so no. | 07:50 |
| fabbione | bintut: if you need support for universe you want to talk with Canonical | 07:50 |
| fabbione | bintut: also.. take into account that Dapper is still in development | 07:51 |
| bintut | fabbione: who provide the packages for universe? is it canonical or the community? | 07:51 |
| fabbione | bintut: community | 07:51 |
| bintut | fabbione: yeah, i know that dapper is in dev stage | 07:51 |
| fabbione | bintut: but if you need support for them, Canonical will provide them for you | 07:51 |
| fabbione | bintut: you get the idea.. i guess | 07:52 |
| bintut | fabbione: are you connected with canonical? | 07:52 |
| fabbione | bintut: yes. i have been working for canonical since the beginning of light | 07:52 |
| bintut | fabbione: cool! :) | 07:52 |
| fabbione | bintut: but i am not the person you want to talk about contracts or support.. really | 07:53 |
| fabbione | bintut: there is an email address on canonical.com | 07:53 |
| === fabbione checks | ||
| bintut | fabbione: i'll ask you personally and hopefully you won't be biased: do you think that the community that provides the packages in the universe will provide their own security updates for dapper later on? | 07:54 |
| fabbione | bintut: i can tell from experience that it happens sporadicaly | 07:54 |
| fabbione | but not on a regular base | 07:54 |
| fabbione | i mean i do use universe packages myself | 07:55 |
| fabbione | but i know that i can't rely on them on supersecure servers | 07:56 |
| bintut | fabbione: is there additional patches that are being applied when packaging software in the universe? | 07:56 |
| fabbione | http://www.ubuntu.com/support | 07:56 |
| bintut | fabbione: yeah | 07:56 |
| fabbione | bintut: probably.. that depends from package to package | 07:56 |
| fabbione | there are about 11000 pkgs in universe.. i somehow lack the time to look at all of them : | 07:56 |
| bintut | fabbione: how will i know the server packages that will be included in the main source for dapper? | 07:57 |
| fabbione | there is a FAQ for that.. | 07:57 |
| fabbione | let me find the link | 07:57 |
| bintut | fabbione: yes, please.. | 07:57 |
| fabbione | i am not a big www/wiki lover | 07:57 |
| lh317 | http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/ubuntu-server-dapper/server | 07:57 |
| fabbione | that one | 07:57 |
| lh317 | is what I had, dunno if it's the most update source or not. | 07:57 |
| fabbione | thanks lh317 | 07:57 |
| fabbione | it is | 07:57 |
| lh317 | they still need to seriously beef their mail server package sets. | 07:58 |
| fabbione | lh317: did you file wishlist bugs? | 07:58 |
| fabbione | or do you expect people to read your mind? | 07:58 |
| fabbione | (on the note: that list will be considered final only 15 days from release) | 07:59 |
| fabbione | (more or lesS) | 07:59 |
| lh317 | no, I haven't, but it should be obvious that SA, one of amavais or mailscanner, etc ought to be included. | 07:59 |
| fabbione | that's exactly where community should be | 08:00 |
| fabbione | there is no such thing as obvious | 08:00 |
| lh317 | ... | 08:00 |
| bintut | same comment here.. | 08:00 |
| fabbione | lh317: you want SA and whatever scanner.. i don't.. somebody else wants it but in another brand/pkg versions | 08:01 |
| fabbione | (just an example of course) | 08:01 |
| fabbione | so there is no obviuos... | 08:01 |
| lh317 | well, I understand that. that's one thing. But I haven't seen a, "pick which scanner will be in drake" thread or discussion or request of the community either, or even a bug to vote on. | 08:01 |
| fabbione | if community doesn't express wishes,, | 08:01 |
| fabbione | so consider yourself at fault for not bringing up the topic | 08:02 |
| lh317 | fabbione: in this case, this is fundamental enough something should be selected. Now, if you picked opposite my chocie and I didn't voice, i'd stfu. but this is like selling a car and saying, tires optional IMO. | 08:02 |
| fabbione | fundamental to you | 08:02 |
| fabbione | and your working env | 08:02 |
| fabbione | are you aware that in some states/companies, spam filters are illegal? | 08:03 |
| lh317 | i can't think of that many email environments where mailscanning isn't essential. | 08:03 |
| fabbione | i do :) | 08:03 |
| lh317 | i'm aware. | 08:03 |
| bintut | postfix, sa, amavis-ng, clamav, openldap, samba, openvpn, squid, dansguardian, sarg, nagios, snort, ejabberd, etc.. | 08:04 |
| fabbione | anyway.. time to wake up wife and start weekend :) | 08:05 |
| bintut | where can i post my request? sorry, i'm an ubuntu/debian newbie.. i'm a mandriva user for years.. | 08:05 |
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