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[01:17] <jblack> Whats goign on here?
[01:17] <jblack> are you and kcole two peas in a pod?
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[02:13] <postgres> ircii
[02:14] <postgres> msg
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[02:34] <Lethalman> hello
[02:34] <Lethalman> can i suggest to use mercurial too?
[02:34] <Lethalman> i found it better than bazaar-ng, it's faster and more complete in some aspects
[02:35] <Lethalman> it would be really great to support these 2 SCM...
[02:35] <jblack> I don't think is, actually.
[02:36] <Lethalman> why?
[02:36] <jblack> They don't have aliases, they don't have name/remove, they don't have checkouts, they don't have repositories. they don't even have command aliases.
[02:36] <jblack> I said aliases twice.
[02:36] <jblack> and they do have remove, but they don't have rename
[02:37] <jblack> I don't even think they have uncommit.
[02:37] <Lethalman> checkout = clone
[02:37] <siretart> jblack: does bzr have checkouts?
[02:37] <jblack> So you can get a working tree with no rcs history?
[02:38] <jblack> siretart: yup. Went in last week. :)
[02:38] <siretart> jblack: ah, nice :)
[02:38] <Lethalman> jblack me?
[02:38] <jblack> lethalman: So you can get a working tree with no rcs history?
[02:39] <Lethalman> i'm not so much expert in these things, however here is an history tutorial http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/TutorialHistory
[02:40] <jblack> I'll just test
[02:40] <Lethalman> bzr push are a bit strange
[02:40] <Lethalman> it's more difficult to use bzr for a novice
[02:40] <jblack> No, clone is equivilant to branch.
[02:40] <jblack> lethalman: its the exact same commands. Why do you think its harder?
[02:41] <siretart> jblack: btw, whats the homepage of pqm? where do I get the latest version? I'd like to try it for some bzr branches
[02:41] <Lethalman> jblack it uses different behavior against pull
[02:41] <jblack> siretart: pqm doesn't have a home page. There is a page on the wiki though: http://bazaar-vcs.org/PatchQueueManager
[02:41] <jblack> lethalman: Hmmm. Can you show me an example?
[02:42] <siretart> thanks
[02:42] <Lethalman> jblack i can't now
[02:42] <Lethalman> jblack just wait, maybe the plugin for push has been changed
[02:43] <jblack> Ohhh. You may have used bzr a long while ago.
[02:44] <jblack> bzr supports sftp and everything.
[02:44] <jblack> I heard a rumor that mercurial doesn't even support sftp yet, though I find that hard to swallow.
[02:45] <jblack> hg push sftp://jblack@mercury//home/jblack/sadf doens't seem to work though, so...
[02:46] <Lethalman> mh that's a cool thing
[02:46] <Lethalman> however it seems mercurial has renames
[02:48] <Lethalman> can't you add another SCM then eh?
[02:48] <jblack> can't is a big word.
[02:49] <jblack> would you be willing to fund the work? 
[02:49] <Lethalman> sorry i didn't understand what you mean :P i speak a poor english
[02:49] <jblack> would you be willing to pay for all the programmers to do it. =)
[02:50] <Lethalman> ah
[02:50] <Lethalman> :)
[02:50] <Lethalman> beh, launchpad seems a nice project
[02:51] <Lethalman> i just think adding new scm, like darcs too can an advantage of yours
[02:51] <Lethalman> *can be
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[02:52] <jblack> I just don't see why. Bzr works really well. Its easy to use, and has a lot of stuff nothing else does.
[02:52] <Lethalman> i know
[02:52] <Lethalman> but people many times don't want to learn another tool
[02:52] <jblack> I don't think anybody is going to make anybody learn a tool.
[02:53] <jblack> Life is reliliant. Its not goign to end if you don't know bzr.
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[02:53] <jblack> That said, I'm happy to teach bzr to you.
[02:53] <Lethalman> people can be unexpert, have no time, have already a repository and don't want to change for another one, that's it
[02:53] <jblack> s/reliliant/resiliant
[02:53] <Lethalman> this would mean that these people won't use launchpad
[02:53] <jblack> Lethalman: Ok, so if they don't want to change, they don't change.
[02:54] <Lethalman> lol
[02:54] <Lethalman> i'm trying to say that if someone likes launchpad system at all doesn't like the SCM
[02:54] <jblack> Launchpad is all about choice. If you don't want to change to the toolset, nobody is going to knock on your door and make you an offer you can't refuse.
[02:55] <Lethalman> i know jblack :)
[02:55] <jblack> The designed for toolset at this time is launchpad, ubuntu and bzr. 
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[02:55] <Lethalman> ok
[02:55] <jblack> All of these have something in common. They're the same group of people.
[02:55] <Lethalman> for example
[02:56] <Lethalman> if A got support for CVS only and B got CVS and SVN, i'll use B
[02:56] <Lethalman> if launchpad got bzr and another one got bzr and hg, i'll use the other one
[02:56] <jblack> Ahh, I would use neither A nor B, because I know too much about the internals about CVS and SVN.
[02:56] <Lethalman> ahhaha
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[02:57] <jblack> Ok. I hear you. If you can choose betwen a project that offers Bzr and a project that offers Bzr and Hg, that we'll loose you.
[02:57] <Lethalman> ok keep only bzr if it takes a long time to support hg too
[02:57] <jblack> That happens to be exactly the case, my friend.
[02:57] <Lethalman> i just wanted to suggest more tools to be choosen
[02:57] <jblack> There's something you can do to help, btw.
[02:59] <Lethalman> however this is not only my case unfortunately, there're projects in which developers don't want to switch scm, as another example
[02:59] <Lethalman> *many developers
[02:59] <jblack> Ahh. Thats a good point.
[02:59] <jblack> Did you know that part of my job is to help projects switch over?
[03:00] <Lethalman> switch what?
[03:00] <jblack> and I don't mean "bzr is good, use it". I help with any and all steps of the migration that we're invited to participate in.
[03:00] <Lethalman> ok
[03:01] <jblack> Whatever the project can use to ease switching over. Custom documentation, project design methodology reorganization, building the infrastructure to migrate to, getting the history moved across.
[03:01] <Lethalman> you can be one of the little bunch of people in this world to do this
[03:01] <Lethalman> the rest can say "no"
[03:01] <Lethalman> don't you think? not everybody think like you
[03:02] <jblack> I certainly wouldn't jump in and force somebody to switch against their will. That would be evil -- and in most countries, illegal.
[03:02] <jblack> Its just a free service that we offer.
[03:03] <Lethalman> yes, i'm just explaing a suggestion, i don't think you're a bastard who want to limit the choice, even you are the unique to offer this service :)
[03:04] <Lethalman> (i guess this phrase got so many errors :P )
[03:04] <jblack> Heh. Nah. I'm not the only person to do it. There's a strong bzr community that is willing to help.
[03:04] <Lethalman> evangelists :)
[03:04] <jblack> who? me?
[03:04] <Lethalman> ahah yes
[03:05] <Lethalman> however, my friend switched from bzr to hg, for instance
[03:05] <jblack> Yeah. I'm a evangilest. I'm not here for the job. I'm here because I believe.
[03:05] <Lethalman> automatically, you lose one client
[03:06] <jblack> Hmmm. You automatically select against something that people believe in?
[03:06] <jblack> Wouldn't that be a hard way to live? You couldn't buy anything that had loyalty, since that's belief too.
[03:06] <Lethalman> didn't understand anything :P
[03:06] <jblack> About the only thing you could buy into was taxes, since I don't think anyone believe in taxes. :))
[03:06] <Lethalman> i think you're going out of railways
[03:07] <jblack> what does that phrase mean?
[03:07] <Lethalman> that's an italian meaning mmmmm
[03:08] <jblack> so.. you'd rather somebody 'sell' you on something that they don't even believe in themselves?
[03:08] <Lethalman> if you believe in this project, help itself to be better... and i think one of the ways is to add more tools, that's it
[03:09] <jblack> Yeah. The community is always working on more tools. We could use more than whats at http://bazaar-vcs.org/3rdPartyTools
[03:09] <Lethalman> i'm talking about launchpad
[03:09] <jblack> Did you know that launchpad is being developed with bzr? 
[03:10] <Lethalman> i'm not interested
[03:10] <Lethalman> i made a project to create plugin-based applications, and i didn't give support only for a set of tools
[03:11] <jblack> Thats where bzr was concieved; to deal with the problems of launchpad development, and the problems that projects that projects at launchpad have.
[03:11] <jblack> lethalman: it helps if you kind of think of bzr as part of launchpad.
[03:12] <Lethalman> k
[03:12] <jblack> We've even got plans for bidirectional launchpad<->bzr support
[03:13] <jblack> So that you can so "bzr branch sm://someproject/someuser/somebranch  codedir
[03:13] <jblack> (for you, that would be 'bzr clone sm://someproject/someuser/somebranch codedir'
[03:13] <Lethalman> hg yes
[03:13] <jblack> No. I mean you can run that exact command in bzr today.
[03:14] <jblack> well, you can run "bzr clone <URL>" today. I don't mean that we have the someproject/someuser/somebranch part yet.
=== mpt guesses "going out of railways" is "going off the rails"
[03:20] <jblack> lethalman: Tell ya what. After I get back from the launchpad sprint, I can give you some time for you and I to run through bzr again. If you'll give it another try, you can tell me what you think is off about it and I'll make sure it gets to the right people. Is that fair?
[03:21] <Lethalman> i've not time right now unfortunately
[03:21] <Lethalman> however my pc is pretty slow, and using bzr is really boring, i don't think i'll retry
[03:23] <jblack> lethalman: After I get back from sprint, the code that makes bzr 30 times faster will be in. 
[03:23] <Lethalman> ok
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[03:25] <Ripek> who here?
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[05:41] <raphink> there's something wrong with auth it seems
[05:42] <raphink> login on the ubuntu wiki doesn't seem to work nor on LP
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[11:24] <Omni|Work> Hello all.
[11:25] <Omni|Work> There's a spam project on Launchpad.
[11:25] <Omni|Work> The Fatal Network
[11:25] <Omni|Work> http://launchpad.net/projects/fatalnetwork
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