/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/03/03/#ubuntu-doc.txt

mdkeyeah, it's fun :)12:04
Burglaptopfor certain values of "fun"12:07
robotgeekLaserJock: the keymap to change buffers doesn't work, you might have to change it to "nnoremap <C-l> :bn<CR>"12:08
Madpilotin Dapper, has the menu entry for "Add Applications" actually been changed to "Add/Remove Applications"?12:09
Burglaptopactually Add/Remove ....12:09
mdkeyes12:09
MadpilotOK, was wondering - we're a bit inconsistent in UDG12:09
mdkeyeah, I've been changing to Add/Remove12:10
=== manicka switching to dapper
mdkebut actually, surely they will change back12:10
mdkeit's idiotic to have .....12:10
Burglaptopmdke: post something to the -desktop list to that affect12:10
mdkeBurglaptop, we can just ping mvo, it's probably just an accidental merge or something12:11
Burglaptopit would be nice to have an official policy statement either way, however12:12
mdkeyeah12:12
mdkeMadpilot, things like that will have to be quite thoroughly checked after string freeze, I guess12:13
Madpilotpatch for UDG add-application inbound to the list...12:15
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mdkeMadpilot, excellent idea about the note12:17
Madpilotyeah - it's one thing I see a fair bit on #ubuntu12:18
mdkedoesn't validate tho12:19
Madpilotexact wording might need changing a bit for clarity, I'm not sure12:19
mdkei'll sort it12:19
Madpilotgah - forgot to validate that - sorry :P12:19
Madpilotthere's an extra set of <para> tags around the new note12:20
Madpilotand no <para> tags inside the <note> tags12:21
mdkeyeah12:21
mdkecommitted12:21
Madpilotthnx12:21
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mdke-> bed12:30
Madpilotlater12:31
LaserJockcya mdke12:32
robotgeekLaserJock: i found a nice page on xml + vim, i think you know it too. 12:36
robotgeekhttp://www.pinkjuice.com/howto/vimxml/setup.xml12:37
robotgeekmanicka: i've added your apt-get section to kdg too, thanks12:40
manickak12:41
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LaserJockrobotgeek: actually I don't think I've seen it before. Thanks for the tip ;-)12:41
Burglaptophttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Dublin_Love_Ulster_Demonstration <-- instant news. This happened todayu12:42
robotgeekLaserJock: cool, that a nice page :)12:42
LaserJockBurglaptop: man, that is fast for a wiki12:43
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manickahi bustacap :)01:14
bustacaphey grant, what's happening?01:25
Burglaptopanybody got any brilliant ideas about what I should cook tonight?01:34
Madpilotfood?01:34
=== Burglaptop smacks Madpilot
LaserJockchinese?01:35
robotgeeknoodles, the 2 minute vareity :P01:35
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robotgeekokay, for audio editing, should i go ahead and put in audacity, even though it is a gtk app? 01:39
LaserJockwhy? aren't there KDE audio editing apps?01:41
robotgeekapparently not, let me google01:41
LaserJockkwave?01:42
crimsunI don't think you should have to distinguish between Gtk and Qt apps01:42
Madpilotaudacity isn't actually a gtk app, it's some odd widget set that's cross-platform (so it looks funny in every OS...)01:42
robotgeekwxgtk, i think01:43
crimsunwxwidgets uses Gtk by default01:43
robotgeekcool, i can just copy from UDG then, lol01:43
crimsun(much to my chagrin for Breezy...)01:43
LaserJockwell, I just thought Kubuntu would have a KDE audio editor01:43
MadpilotKaudacity? :P01:44
=== robotgeek finishes another section, lol
robotgeekMadpilot: even if you write one, we are paste the FF :)01:45
robotgeekpast, even01:45
LaserJockhmm, that seems weird though that KDE wouldn't have one? are you sure it doesn't?01:45
robotgeekthere are others, but i am not sure what they do/if they are as good as audacity (not that i know how it works)01:46
=== robotgeek hates the "works like itunes" "works like Windows Media Player" references
Madpilotthey're what people are used to...01:49
robotgeekyeah, i understand :)01:49
Burglaptopthey might not be needed01:50
Burglaptopwhat is the wmp reference to?01:50
robotgeeksince we target switchers, it's probably a good thing01:50
robotgeektotem01:50
Burglaptopnot really needed there01:50
Burglaptopa media player is a media player01:50
Burglaptopand rb is *NOT* like itunes01:51
Burglaptopassuming that the refernce01:52
Burglaptopbetter to talk about what the user is trying to do, rather than link the two in the peoples mind01:52
robotgeekTo play movies, Ubuntu comes with <application>Totem Movie Player</ application> which looks and functions similar to Windows Media Player01:53
robotgeeketc etc, which is okay, i think01:53
Burglaptopbah, what a horrible sentence, kill the whole thing01:53
Burglaptopusers don't care what plays their movies, they just want to play it01:53
Burglaptopplus, totem is not even in the menus anymore01:54
robotgeekreally, what is?01:54
robotgeeki don't use ubuntu, so i dunno01:54
Burglaptopoh wait, it is01:54
crimsunI would drop the whole "which looks...Media Player" portion01:55
crimsunfrankly it neither looks like nor functions like WMP01:55
robotgeekor itunes for amarok01:55
Burglaptopanyway, why are we talking about what it *is*? users don't care01:58
robotgeektrue01:58
robotgeekhi, can someone tell me what to use inplace of gstreamer, since kubuntu doesn't use it anymore? http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/ch03s03.html01:58
BurglaptopThe sentence could easily be written "Ubuntu comes with the Frabblenork Movia Player"01:59
Burglaptoprobotgeek: what does it us?01:59
Burglaptops/us/use01:59
robotgeekBurglaptop: excatly :)01:59
Burglaptopif it uses xine, you need to talk about the w32codecs, which are evil but work02:00
robotgeekBurglaptop: not for mp3's02:00
MadpilotFrabblenork - I predict there is already an OSS project with a name at least this silly... :P02:00
Burglaptopsadly, no02:01
=== Burglaptop goes to start Frabblenork
Madpilotfrabblenork.sf.net?02:01
Burglaptopok, so I got some pork chops. Any suggestions?02:02
=== robotgeek might steal that cool name for something
Madpilotrobotgeek: it's even got a K in it, so it could be a KDE projekt02:03
robotgeekfrabblenorK02:03
Madpilotnow all we need is a function to go with the cool app name02:03
BurglaptopoK now Kiddies, time to enjoyK your desKtop!02:03
=== robotgeek smacKs Burglaptop
=== Madpilot wonders how many OSS projects start with a cool name, and aquire an actual function later... :D
robotgeekMadpilot: frabblenorK did, lol02:06
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Burglaptopwhat about this idea? Can we create a project that does nothing, but looks like it does?02:10
Burglaptopwithout descending into manager speak, that is02:10
robotgeekBurglaptop: sounds neat, vaporware!02:10
crimsunaka Duke Nukem Forever?02:10
robotgeekcrimsun: DNF is actually being developed now02:11
robotgeekyou can't really use that reference now :)02:11
crimsunyeah, I've read as much, but it has been the better part of a decade, so I'm not holding my breath...02:11
MadpilotBurglaptop: if it's got enough eyecandy and lives on the desktop, someone will probably run it, even if it does squat...02:12
robotgeekBurglaptop: http://www.bernardbelanger.com/computing/NaDa/02:13
Burglaptophow about Frabblesnork - The Manager(TM)02:13
Burglaptopnote, we are not mentioning *what* it manages02:13
robotgeekBurglaptop: note that NaDa is not Free Software :)02:15
Burglaptopdammit, .er is a not a valid tld02:15
BurglaptopI wanted to register man.ag.er02:16
Burglaptopoh, wait it is02:16
Burglaptopdamn, you must live in eritrea02:17
Burglaptopman.ag.es is available02:18
Madpilotneed to do a grocery run - back later. Have fun frabblesnorking.02:18
Burglaptop"Eritrea does not yet have a direct internet connection."02:18
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Burglaptopbloody hell, gpm just did something wierd02:23
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Burglaptoprobitaille: salut07:23
robitailleHi Burglaptop 07:24
Burglaptoprobitaille: so the ReStore basically blew me off. I am annoyed07:24
robitaillethat's annoyning.  Any particular reason?07:26
Burglaptopthey said "they would think about it"07:26
robitailleah, sounds like a "we'll call you back"...07:27
robitailleanyone knows the story behind: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Official_Ubuntu_Book_Contributions07:27
Burglaptoprobitaille: Jono put something up. No idea. He didn't mention anything to Mako or I07:27
robitailleedited by the famous Jono Bacon07:27
Burglaptoprobitaille: Jono, myself and Mako are writing the official Ubuntu book07:27
robitailleah.  I didn't know that07:28
BurglaptopJonathon Jesse is writing a Kubuntu chapter and Bhuvan is writing the server chapter07:28
MadpilotBurglaptop: is that Jono of Lugradio?07:28
robitailleMadpilot:  yes07:28
robitailleis there another Jono Bacon around Ubuntu? :)07:29
Madpilotis he as... scatalogical.. in his writing as he is on LugRadio? :P07:29
Burglaptopno07:29
Madpilotpity07:29
Madpilotrobitaille: I didn't realize he was actually involved in Ubuntu (beyond plugging it on Lugradio)07:30
robitailleJono has done some writing before:  http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/linuxdeskhks/07:30
Madpilotyeah, saw some of his stuff on the LG site07:31
Madpilotso Burglaptop why are you loitering on IRC if you've got a book deadline to meet?07:31
jsgotangcolol07:32
jsgotangcogood question07:32
Burglaptopbecause pot and book writing do not go together07:32
Madpilotyou've got stoner roommates again? :)07:33
robitaillesp IRC and pot goes together?  :)07:33
Burglaptopyep07:33
jsgotangcoim pretty much swamped with writing too at the moment07:33
Burglaptopthe pot comes from the relative of one roommate07:33
robitailleafter writting a couple of thesis at the university, and a couple of science papers, I have reached the conclusion that I'll never write a book. 07:34
jsgotangcolol07:35
jsgotangcothere's an old chinese saying about writing a book to become immortal...07:35
robitailleI'm not patient enough to write a book.07:36
BurglaptopMadpilot: dad was first published at 25. Beat him by two years!07:36
jsgotangcorobitaille: it really eats up a lot of time07:37
MadpilotBurglaptop: ha07:37
jsgotangcoapparently the europeans are much better writers since a lot of Ubuntu books have come out there07:38
jsgotangcoalready07:38
BurglaptopI think it is down to more linux users there07:39
robitaillethe wiki world map of ubuntu users seems to show that most Ubuntu users are European07:39
jsgotangconot surprising07:39
Madpilotthere's an ebook from France, I saw, and the Spanish one (Guadalinux?) - are there more?07:39
jsgotangcothere are also at least 2 in germany07:39
Burglaptopthe upcoming Ubuntu hacks book is from a US author07:40
jsgotangcoploum's book07:40
jsgotangcothe publishers are having a field day07:40
BurglaptopPrentince Hall is seriously looking at an Edubuntu book, provided the Ubuntu book does well07:42
Madpilotyeah, but with 6 month release cycles, the selling season for these books isn't going to be that long...07:42
jsgotangcooh cool07:42
jsgotangcoMadpilot: dapper is different07:42
jsgotangcoMadpilot: most publishers tend to side with a "generic" reference07:42
jsgotangcorather than a specific release07:42
jsgotangcoan official book will have lots of revisions though07:43
Burglaptopbut Ubuntu books tend to concentrate on the desktop, which is the most variable part07:44
jsgotangcojust to have good shelf visibility07:44
Madpilothmm, Dapper is going to be the '5 year' release - so yeah, they'll last a bit longer07:44
jsgotangcoa server book is more viable with a long shelf life i guess07:44
Burglaptopregardless of the short shelf life, Ubuntu books are going to fly off the shelf07:46
jsgotangcohas anyone seen the g-a-i manual i wrote?07:46
jsgotangcocomments? suggestions?07:47
Burglaptopjsgotangco: sorry, haven't seen it07:48
jsgotangcoits already in the distro07:48
Madpilotjsgotangco: is it in our svn?07:48
jsgotangcoyeah07:48
jsgotangcowe just had it uploaded a few days ago with the package07:48
Burglaptopjsgotangco: I wonder about the installation section07:49
jsgotangcoi just patterned it from u-m07:49
Burglaptopjsgotangco: you might want to make the note about it being installed by default a bit bolder and stronger07:50
jsgotangcofeel free to comment on it on the list so i can make changes to it later07:51
Burglaptopthe section "Main Window" might need a stronger title07:52
Madpilotg-a-i is dependent on Firefox?07:52
jsgotangcoi will have to do some paid work first07:52
jsgotangcobrb07:52
jsgotangcoMadpilot: strange isn't it07:52
Burglaptopdoes it use gecko?07:52
MadpilotI used to complain about how dependant Windows was on IE; seems like we're just as dependent on Firefox... browsers are infectious or something :P07:53
jsgotangcoapp-install-data seems to rely on it07:54
Burglaptopjsgotangco: overall well written07:56
Madpilotis g-a-i called "Install and Remove Applications" or "Add & Remove..."?07:56
jsgotangcoInstall and Remove Applications is what we agreed upon07:56
jsgotangco(me, mvo and glatzor)07:57
MadpilotWe've been using "Add.." in the UDG, it's "Add.." in the menus, but "Install.." in this guide?07:57
Madpilotis the menu entry going to change in Dapper?07:57
jsgotangcoi dunno07:57
BurglaptopMadpilot: ask the -desktop list07:58
MadpilotWhen is freeze for that sort of thing, anyway? (UI/desktop details?)07:58
BurglaptopMarch 9th is UI freeze07:59
Madpilotand our doc freeze isn't until the 23rd or so - good.07:59
MadpilotBurglaptop: I'm not on -desktop - want to drop them a note and CC -doc?08:00
Burglaptopcan do08:02
=== jsgotangco seems to like epiphany more lately
Burglaptopepiphany is nice, no?08:04
jsgotangcoand fast08:04
jsgotangcoi wonder how extensible it is though08:04
jsgotangcothe way it renders fonts is different but not noticeable08:05
Burglaptopthe fonts are smaller08:07
jsgotangcoyes a wee bit08:07
jsgotangcotext size zoom is just a click08:08
Burglaptopyes, but the default size is more importatnt08:08
jsgotangcoit seems to render wikipedia in the correct font size though08:09
jsgotangcobut gmail is slightly smaller08:09
Burglaptopbbc news is smaller08:09
jsgotangcowonder what determines it08:11
jsgotangcooh cool BBC as a11y info for linux users08:12
Burglaptopthey even talk about GNOME and KDE08:12
Burglaptopthere are people at the beeb get it08:12
jsgotangcoyeah08:12
jsgotangcoso cool08:12
BurglaptopI wish CBC were as good08:12
jsgotangcoa few instructions to be posted on the web isn't hard08:13
Burglaptopbut it shows that someone cares08:16
jsgotangcodoes anyone notice the the rhythmbox notification is cut when a different application is open08:17
Burglaptopdon't use rb08:17
jsgotangcobah08:19
jsgotangcodon't tell me i have to use a movie player to play audio :P08:19
BurglaptopMadpilot uses muine08:19
Madpilotjsgotangco: I was using Rb while I was running the Dapper LiveCD a few nights ago, didn't notice the popup "Now Playing" thing cutting out, and I ran a bunch of different apps08:22
jsgotangcohmm08:23
MadpilotRB in dapper is dramatically better than the RB in Breezy...08:23
jsgotangcoyeah08:23
jsgotangcoyou can now do podcasts08:23
MadpilotI still like Muine's simple UI, though08:24
=== robitaille use google reader for podcasts and blogs
crimsunI prefer quod libet; too bad 0.18 probably won't make it into Dapper08:25
jsgotangcorobitaille: heh08:26
Madpilotanyone used Cowbell before?08:28
robitailleI continously switch between computers at home and at work.  The remote server for blogs, podcasts, email is essential08:29
BurglaptopMadpilot: a little08:29
MadpilotBurglaptop: can you actually import whole folders into it, or just individual song files?08:29
BurglaptopMadpilot: whole folders08:29
BurglaptopI think08:29
MadpilotI've used EasyTag so far, it's more complex but handles whole directories easily08:30
Madpilotbut we've got Cowbell in UDG... :P08:30
jsgotangcorobitaille: its amazing on what they churn out with ajax though08:30
Madpilot3360 songs in my Music directory...08:34
robitailleonly 1291 songs in mine...but probably 200 CDs still to rip in my collection.  Obviously I'll never complete that project...08:41
MadpilotI've got CDs that I've never "really" heard, because I just ripped them straight to .ogg :P08:41
Madpilota couple of DRM'd ones that wouldn't play, but would rip - go figure08:42
BurglaptopI didn't know we had an EmbeddedUbuntu project until about 4 days ago: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6954215579.html09:00
jsgotangcowas it discussed during UBZ?09:01
robitaillesometimes I feel like writing a fake spec on the wiki, and see how long before a web site pick it up.  Maybe something to do for April 1st09:02
BurglaptopI don't remember it being dicussed, but I may have missed it09:03
Madpilotsome of the stuff feels like it should have been added on April 1st - like this gem: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubunty_daily_tips09:03
Madpilotnot a bad idea, but notice the spelling... :P09:03
BurglaptopI think for April 1st we shoudl rename the distro to "Hakuna Matata"09:03
robitailleI wonder if the Ubuntu devs will change the gdm image this April 1st like last year09:04
MadpilotApril 1st release: Mutant Marsupial09:04
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mdkehello jpatrick 12:40
jpatrickhello mdke 12:40
mdkeI noticed you applied to join the ubuntu-doc launchpad team12:40
jpatrickyes, I did12:41
mdkewe generally keep that team for people who work on the docs in our repository. are you interested in that?12:41
jpatrickyes, I'm working on PackagingGuide and KubuntuDesktopGuide12:42
mdkeright, I saw that on your wiki page12:42
mdkebut I haven't seen any patches yet on the mailing list, do you need any help with doing that?12:42
jpatrickI sent a patch to LaserJock today12:43
jpatrickhe's yet to come online12:43
mdkeah right12:43
mdkejpatrick, if you send them to the mailing list too, then it helps us get to know you :)12:43
mdkethanks for getting involved12:43
jpatrickok12:44
mdkeafter you've been sending patches for a while, you are likely to be given commit access12:44
mdkethen we'll add you to the launchpad team :)12:44
jpatrickok, thanks :)12:44
jsgotangcohi12:44
mdkefeel free to hang out here too and ask any questions12:45
mdkehiya jsgotangco 12:45
jsgotangcoits pretty crazy here at the moment12:45
jpatrickhi jsgotangco 12:45
jsgotangcotanks came out from the base of the marines12:45
mdkemm?12:46
jsgotangcoi guess you don't read world news :D12:46
mdkei'm looking now12:46
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jsgotangcothere was a botched coup here last friday12:46
mdkeah i see 12:46
mdkegosh12:46
mdkestay indoors!12:47
jsgotangcolol12:47
jsgotangcowe actually watched WWE that night12:47
jpatrickhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4745716.stm12:47
jsgotangcohttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4752118.stm12:48
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jpatrickI'm having trouble with Kubuntu Desktop Guide02:50
jpatrickI run 'make desktop-web' then 'make desktop-web' but no output is made02:51
jpatrickmake desktop-html that is02:51
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jpatricksolved it03:02
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gusawebhello05:04
gusawebI am here to submit an idea05:05
gusawebor ask if it has already been done05:05
robotgeeksure gusaweb05:05
gusawebIs there a launchpad documentation?05:05
gusawebI am new in Ubuntu05:06
robotgeekgusaweb: do you mean documentation for launchpad?05:06
gusawebyes robotgeek05:06
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gusawebyesterday I wanted to report bugs05:07
gusaweband I realized launchpad has lots of functionnalities05:07
gusawebit is a very great tool05:07
gusawebbut it would be nice if there was a documentation05:08
robotgeekgusaweb: i don't think there was anything there, as such. 05:09
robotgeekhttps://wiki.launchpad.net/ might be a start, gusaweb05:09
gusawebrobotgeek ok05:10
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jpatrickI've sent a diff to the list06:48
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dooglushi.10:10
doogluswhere should I report problems with ubuntu docs?10:10
dooglusis malone the place?10:10
jpatrickyes10:10
dooglusok.10:10
dooglusand...10:10
dooglusif I have a bunch of corrections,10:10
doogluswould you prefer one per report?  or all lumped together?10:11
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jpatricka diff file?10:11
jpatricksvn diff > patch.diff10:11
dooglusI'm not a writer.10:12
dooglusbut I recognise when things don't read right.10:12
jpatrickone report10:13
dooglusI see a funny box between "1" and "about ubuntu" here: http://fsphost.com/dooglus/snaps/2006-02-26--22-14-14.png ; is that worth reporting?  Or is that the fault of a different team?10:16
jpatrickI don't see an "about ubuntu"10:18
dooglusno10:19
dooglusI mean between "1" and "participate".  in line 2.10:20
dooglusit's a box with:10:20
dooglus2 010:20
dooglus0 210:20
doogluswritten in it10:20
dooglusis that a "best before" date?10:21
jpatrickI think it's fixed in svn10:21
dooglusany chance svn could be packaged and uploaded to the mirrors?10:22
jpatrickit's updated once in a while10:23
dooglusis there some documentation or FAQ about how I might get the svn version?10:24
dooglusthere's no point me reporting bugs which have already been fixed in a version I haven't seen10:24
jpatrickhttp://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/about-ubuntu/C/index.html10:25
jpatrick^^built daily10:25
dooglusI mean is there some way I can see the svn version?10:27
jpatrickhttps://wiki.kubuntu.org/DocumentationTeam/Repository10:28
dooglusthanks10:29
dooglusthat page says "It will ask for certificate informations".  "information" is a collective noun, and doesn't have a plural.10:31
jpatrickgood point10:33
dooglusthat was a test :)10:33
doogluswhat should I do with such observations?10:33
dooglus1) keep them to myself - it's only an 's' after all10:34
dooglus2) fix them - it's a wiki10:34
dooglus3) complain about it here (I did!)10:34
dooglus4) report a bug in malone10:34
dooglus5) none of the above10:34
jpatrick2, if it was me10:35
dooglusok.10:37
dooglusI did #210:37
dooglusso I've checkout out the svn repository.  can I view the svn version of "about ubuntu" that's now in my home directory using yelp?10:37
jpatrickyes10:38
dooglusI tried: "yelp ubuntu-doc/ubuntu/aboutubuntu/C/about-ubuntu.xml" but it showed the10:38
dooglus2 010:38
dooglusbox, just as before10:38
dooglus0 210:38
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mdke_dooglus, perhaps I can help, what's the problem11:03
mdke_ah11:06
mdke_those 2002 boxes are a bug in yelp, it is reported, and fixed.11:06
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mdke_dooglus, also, don't bother over About Ubuntu just now, it will hopefully be replaced by a program mpt_ is working on11:10
mdke_mpt_, actually, is your About Ubuntu still an option, after feature freeze?11:14
mdke_if not, we should get cracking and tidy up the old thing11:14
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