=== psusi [n=phreak@54.161.205.68.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ealden [n=ealden@203.76.212.175] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:21] any TB members awake? When will the next TB meeting be? === earobinson [n=earobins@ubuntu/member/earobinson] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ispiked_ [n=ispiked@Lee-11-133.rh.ncsu.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:25] LaserJock: TB requires Mark and other busy developers, likely a while now === Pygi [n=mario@83-131-242-156.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:26] Burglaptop: are they going to announce the day/time ahead of time? [12:27] LaserJock: one assumes so === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-48-188.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === didymo [n=ashley@CPE-61-9-197-223.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:27] Burglaptop: hmm, well that is frustrating. I'll just keep checking the wiki and fridge then :-) [12:28] LaserJock: mark is currently in Asia and the development team has just been rushing to FF, so I suspect that taking some time off for a TB meeting has kind of fallen to the side [12:30] hmm, it's just that I'm on the agenda and I trying to schedule it :( === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-devel === makinen [i=makinen@wire158.adsl.netsonic.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel === crimsun [n=crimsun@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sistpoty [n=sistpoty@ubuntu/member/sistpoty] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ozamosi- [n=nnnozamo@h150n2c1o1049.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lorenzod [n=lorenzod@63.218.103.162] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rajasun [n=maximusp@bb219-75-72-146.singnet.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ozamosi- is now known as ozamosi === rcliii [n=rcliii@cpe-65-26-158-102.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Aegir [n=richard@C1480153.wl148.flinders.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === irvin [n=irvin@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ealden [n=ealden@203.76.212.175] has joined #ubuntu-devel === irvin_ [n=irvin@203.213.220.166] has joined #ubuntu-devel === irvin_ [n=irvin@203.213.220.166] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.25] has joined #ubuntu-devel === reggaemanu_ [n=manu@ARennes-257-1-118-157.w86-210.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel === SloMoSnail [n=slomo@p5486F81C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel === huahua [n=hua@222.50.182.199] has joined #ubuntu-devel === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-48-188.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Benbo [n=liblit@ppp-70-226-176-213.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === wasabi [n=wasabi@c-71-199-219-63.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg@210.4.38.43] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Benbo [n=liblit@ppp-70-226-176-213.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === herzi [n=herzi@d006063.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rcliii [n=rcliii@cpe-65-26-158-102.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.10.73.249.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Aegir [n=richard@C1480153.wl148.flinders.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mpt [n=mpt@219-89-159-215.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === earobinson [n=earobins@ubuntu/member/earobinson] has joined #ubuntu-devel === reggaemanu [n=manu@ARennes-257-1-118-157.w86-210.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dark [i=deviled_@microsoft.gotrooted.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Xoff [n=mas01cr@gibbons.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying-ibook [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.25] has joined #ubuntu-devel === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel === womble [n=mpalmer@220-245-224-46.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dolson is now known as dolzzzon === reggaemanu [n=manu@ARennes-257-1-118-157.w86-210.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Aegir [n=richard@d58-105-60-165.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:24] Good morning === j^_ [n=j@e178055004.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:24] morning pitti [07:36] salut ajmitch_, pitti [07:37] morning guys [07:37] hi Burglaptop [07:40] hi fabbione, Burglaptop === marilize [n=marilize@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j^ [n=j@e178055004.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:46] damn, this is best twisting of SABDFL yet: SABDFL, Self Admiring, Buys Debian For Loosechange [07:47] Burglaptop: cool but not true unfortunately === marcin` [n=user@194.114.146.58] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mako_ [n=mako@dsl092-076-224.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:57] mako_ ! [07:58] hey mako [07:59] Burglaptop, ajmitch_: hi guys [08:00] Burglaptop: i got the intro and the appendix in [08:00] Burglaptop: yesterday === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:03] mako: ahead of me then. I gave up fighting with OO.o in dapper yesterday [08:03] will try it on my work Fedora machine [08:03] Burglaptop: oh my god, tell me about it [08:04] Burglaptop: it's bad enough when it works fine [08:04] Burglaptop: i tried with oo1.1 and nearly died of frustration.. oo2 was bad but possible [08:04] oo.o may be the one application that drives certain people in my office to windows [08:05] Burglaptop: my laptop is breezy :) [08:05] for just these sorts of occations [08:05] I need to test flight 4, but am waiting for later this week, cause I can't afford to have it mess up at this time [08:06] well, i'm off for the night [08:06] g'night === earobinson [n=earobins@ubuntu/member/earobinson] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B3110.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:15] good morning [08:19] /c/ [08:19] Morning dholbach [08:20] hey TheMuso! === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.25] has joined #ubuntu-devel === MagnusR [n=magru@c83-250-59-127.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:25] hi freeflying [08:26] dholbach: aren't random and useless threads on -devel fun?' [08:26] Burglaptop: NO! [08:26] Burglaptop: if you ask me like that, NO [08:27] lol === Burglaptop goes to kill the init-ng/launchd/smf thread === ajmitch_ goes offline for the night [08:27] hi pitti === lixus [n=lixuss@lixus.dtm.ops.eu.uu.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === marcin` [n=user@194.114.146.58] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:31] pitti: dose language-pack-zh depend on im-switch now ? === freeflying-ibook [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.25] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:35] freeflying: Depends: mozilla-firefox-locale-zh-cn, mozilla-firefox-locale-zh-tw, openoffice.org2-l10n-zh-cn, openoffice.org2-l10n-zh-tw, openoffice.org2-help-zh-cn, openoffice.org2-help-zh-tw, scim-chewing, scim-pinyin, scim-tables-zh [08:35] freeflying: I can add the dependency explicitly if it doesn't make sense to add it to the scim modules directly [08:36] pitti: I'd prefer to add to the language-pack than scim [08:36] freeflying: (it's language-support-zh btw, not -pack) [08:36] pitti: y [08:36] freeflying: ok, I'll do that then [08:37] pitti: how can we setup IM variable ? [08:38] freeflying: what's that, an environment variable? [08:38] pitti: ya [08:38] freeflying: not at all in general [08:39] pitti: may those be added by postinstall of language-pack-zh/ko/ja [08:39] we can for new user accounts, but not for existing ones [08:40] then only CJK or any other language user need scim can have those variable set up [08:43] what does it say? [08:43] i. e. what does the variable control? [08:44] pitti: like XMODIFIERS GTK_IM_MODULE QT_IM_MODULE [08:46] freeflying: hm, that still doesn't make sense to me [08:46] freeflying: I don't know about scim very well, but if we can figure out the value of these variables automatically, then why do we need them at all? [08:46] freeflying: can't scim just deduce the necessary values from the current locale? [08:47] freeflying: also, we don't want scim for all locales === earobinson [n=earobins@ubuntu/member/earobinson] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:47] pitti: scim an not set up those variable , so we need add them [08:48] freeflying: we can make it to :) [08:48] hm, which program actually evaluates XMODIFIERS? [08:48] and GTK_IM_MODULE? [08:49] I think let language-pach-zh/ja/ko add those , it will be a better choice than anyothers [08:49] XMODIFIERS -> does xorg itself need that? [08:49] freeflying: well, add where? [08:49] pitti: add to /etc/X11/Xsession.d [08:50] hmm [08:50] as I already said, the language-support packages currently can't do that [08:51] they can be made to, of course [08:51] but it needs some work [08:51] pitti: :) [08:51] and it would still seem more logical to use the locale setting for that [08:51] pitti: if you agree on that , then we just need wait [08:52] well, I still don't see the point of statically adding a fixed variable value [08:52] it just feels so utterly useless [08:52] and as soon as you would install more than one support package, they would even conflict [08:53] or we'd look for other measure [08:53] Migrating old dbus init symlinks to runlevel 12 ... [08:53] ??? [08:53] runlevel 12??? [08:53] freeflying: i. e. you'd get the asciibetically last language instead of the one you actually want [08:53] fabbione: well, priority :) [08:54] fabbione: I need to merge current dbus from Debian to get some bug fixes anyway [08:54] fabbione: I'll fix that when I do that, too [08:54] ok thanks :) [08:55] pitti: the scim/skim will be in ubuntu/kubntu'cd defautly ? [08:56] freeflying: yes [08:56] freeflying: and the modules will be pulled in in l-support-* [08:56] freeflying: i. e. users will get it automatically (if they agree to download language support) [08:57] pitti: y,but how to make scim/skim work automatically ? that what I wanna solve [08:58] freeflying: right, I see [08:58] freeflying: well, they worked OOTB for me, but apparently not for others [08:58] freeflying: I thought im-switch did the selection automatically? [09:01] pitti: maybe we'd use im-swich setup what we wanna according to locales [09:05] freeflying: that's what I would consider the most straightforward and integrated solution [09:05] freeflying: it doesn't do this already? [09:05] freeflying: I thought this was the main point of the package [09:06] pitti: still need work on im-switch and scim too === SloMoSnail is now known as slomo [09:26] sjoerd: can I get your hal 0.5.7 orig.tar.gz from somewhere? I'd like to use the same one for ubuntu === Keybuk [n=scott@c51008D91.inet.catch.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying-ibook [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.25] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.25] has joined #ubuntu-devel === carlos_ [n=carlos@84.76.255.40] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dzonni [n=dzonni@ordi.ee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Burglaptop [n=corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-devel === janimo [n=jani@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ompaul [n=ompaul@213-202-177-243.bas504.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === chmj [n=chmj@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:01] Kinnison: darling, you there? === mvo [n=egon@p54A66D54.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:05] desrt, Burglaptop: thanks for the rant on the panel, nothing like that to start the week :p [10:05] seb128: it was not a rant [10:06] Burglaptop: it really pisses me, that has been discussed n times and I'm against the hammer and the wall which is really not funny [10:06] seb128: a rant would look like this "j00 loosers made my panel stoopid, loolz. I want to get my old dialog back, etc.) [10:06] Burglaptop: Mark is decided on that, so I've just to read people ranting [10:06] that's quite what the bug is in fact [10:07] seb128: the decision at UBZ was made without seeing what upstream has done in this cycle [10:07] I've mailed Mark since, without screenshot of what has been done, etc [10:07] had the current upstream logout/shutdown dialogues existed at UBZ, I would not have supported the change [10:07] he doesn't like upstream stuff and he decided to go with that dialog [10:07] seb128: I just cc'ed mark on the bug [10:07] that's not going to work, but feel free [10:08] mark has to have his one foolish decision per cycle I guess :) [10:08] note that the icons are a moo point [10:08] they are going to be changed before dapper [10:08] by march 9th? [10:08] yep [10:08] with the new icon theme probably [10:09] still doesn't solve point 1 and 2 [10:09] there is some icons which are going to be make by disagners if I got it correctly [10:09] point 1 beeing "the cancel button looks like a buttons", a good [10:10] I though it was looking like a IRC window :p [10:10] the icons change on mouseover, which is better looking that having a border around every icon by default imho [10:11] seb128: no it is not [10:11] unless people actually mouse over, they will not realize it is a bug [10:11] s/bug/button [10:11] and *no* other button anywhere in gnome/kde does that [10:11] for the 2 rows, we have been trying to argue with Mark at UBZ and since that we should have 2 dialogs like window, he'll not heard about it [10:12] nothing I can do [10:12] seb128: mostly the dialog "feels" wrong. It is hard to quantify [10:12] it feels really right to Mark ... :) [10:12] according to the comment he sent during the cycle by mail === ploum [n=Ploum@146-220.242.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:12] hello [10:12] hi ploum [10:12] salut ploum [10:13] anyway, I have to sleep [10:13] Burglaptop: if you don't know that yet it's likely that you will learn that moving Mark from his position when he's decided is not something easy [10:13] seb128, we talked about you yesterday night ! [10:13] Good night.. [10:13] at fosdem? :) [10:13] yes [10:14] Jeff was explaining the wonderful SEBuild system [10:14] :-) === earobinson [n=earobins@ubuntu/member/earobinson] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:15] We have talked about Epiphany as default browser in a pub and the table juste behind us was occupied by the Firefox team :-D [10:16] it was really fun [10:16] Jeff's talk was awesome ! [10:16] ploum: so is your video :P [10:17] awesome, awesome ! (say it with an australian accent) [10:17] Treenaks, hem... I've learned with that video that my mother read planet.ubuntu.... [10:17] hem [10:17] Jeff talks are always great :) [10:17] ploum: LOL [10:18] pitti: http://beast.luon.net/~sjoerd/hal_0.5.7.orig.tar.gz [10:18] sjoerd: thank you [10:18] I think that Jeff has something that I can't have, even with really hard work [10:18] Treenaks, you have to send me a picture of you. You NEED an hackergotchi ! [10:19] pitti: dbus qt stuff failing sucked up my time friday, that's why hal in debian isn't updated yet :(.. [10:20] seb128, I hope to see you in real life too ! [10:20] :-) [10:21] Jeff promises to make ubuntu-be list yesterday... === HiddenWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.204.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:21] ..but with belgian beer it can be "ubuntu-qsdfg" or anything... [10:21] I'm worried [10:23] :) === Gman- [n=gman@nwkea-socks-1.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:25] So, I unfortunatly have a lot of ironing to do... [10:25] Have a good day all === carlos_ [n=carlos@62.87.125.31] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Xoff is now known as Xof === lloydinho [n=andreas@130.225.237.68] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zakame [n=zakame@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:40] hello all === JaneW [n=JaneW@dsl-146-134-158.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:45] boh, missed ploum === jdub makes list during hangover instead of when drunk - safer that way :) [10:46] seb128: yesterday I was trying to burn an Audio CD with serpentine, and it SEGV'd every time I clicked "Write to Disc" [10:46] I tried with just a single ogg file, and it crashed then too [10:46] Keybuk: package welcome :) [10:46] ups [10:46] backtrace === seb128 wakes up [10:46] Keybuk: I think that might be to some gst0.8 package interfering [10:46] seb128: you'll have to wait a week for one of those, it was an "as I was going out of the door" thing [10:46] but it was every damned time [10:47] could be, I still have 0.8 installed -- can I purge that? [10:47] Keybuk :) Freezing yet? [10:47] yep you can [10:47] hey jdub :) [10:47] morning sebuild ;) === jdub has to build flumotion against 0.20 [10:48] er 0.10 [10:48] awesome [10:48] I used k3b in the end, and gods that is a terrible program === janimo [n=jani@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:48] pitti: + Build mono bindings as arch indep. === jsgotangco just deployed a test flumotion server a week ago [10:48] and just as I thought it couldn't get any worse, it played the most stupid wav file to tell me the burning was finished [10:48] I nearly died [10:48] meh.. that's going to screw arches with no mono? [10:48] fortunately I was trying to explain the difference between GNOME and KDE at the time [10:49] and that did it quite neatly [10:49] fabbione: we have this for a while, and Debian adopted it [10:49] "See, KDE looks and acts like crap." [10:49] pitti: ok :) [10:49] fabbione: true, the packages won't be too useful there [10:50] ok [10:51] jsgotangco: cool! === bmon [n=monnahan@68.Red-81-36-139.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === terrex [n=capitant@84-122-64-17.onocable.ono.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === terrex [n=capitant@84-122-64-17.onocable.ono.com] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === olemke [n=olemke@iup.physik.uni-bremen.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:54] seb128, a heads-up: I'll upload an evince-gtk package these days and conflicts/replace will be needed with evince. If you don't have other evincep kg changes pending I'll put a patch in LP ok? === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:56] janimo: how does that affect evince? [10:56] evince-gtk is going to be universe? [10:56] seb128, uses the same common files [10:56] no hopefully in main as it is part of xubuntu [10:56] ideally it would be a patch in evince/debian/patches but hey [10:56] no way [10:56] oh, no ideally it would be upstream [10:56] I will not change evince for that, we already talked about it [10:57] seb128, I know I don't expect you to do what is ideal for me ;) [10:57] anyway if pitti is happy about duplication [10:57] so you'll just need the conf/repl on evince-gtk binary and you're all set [10:57] I am sure nobody is ahppy about duplication [10:57] and as far we don't get the real evince package flooded by your custom hacks on it [10:58] but I am not happy about gnome depends [10:58] it would be better to build a -gtk and a -gnome package from the same source [10:58] janimo: you could use xpdf :) [10:58] can't it be made a configure thing in the source? or can't it be seperated cleanly? [10:58] pitti, no way :) [10:59] pitti: I'm not going to cripple evince and create maintainship work for me at every upstream change no, that's a some hundred lines of code change and I don't want to spend hours updating it when upstream roll a new tarball [10:59] I have a patch wich add ifdef gnomes and --disable-gnome in configure so it is clean [10:59] janimo: anyway, evince itself is no big threat; so oh well... [10:59] mvo: that's a custom patch, that's not trivial work to follow upstream changes probably [10:59] seb128: I didn't intend you to :) [10:59] seb128, you're blowing this way out of proportion but anyway [10:59] seb128: I mean that upstream shuold offer a configure switch, then we can do multibuild [10:59] I am prtty sure other gnome bits have more ubuntu patches against upstream [11:00] janimo: I've already too much work, I'm not subscribing for extra tasks when I don't need to :) [11:00] seb128: sure, but having the gnome bits seperated clean and with a configure option, it would probably increase the chances of upstream acceptance [11:00] janimo: yeah, and I know too well that's creating update work === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:00] seb128, I would have taken the extra work or even full evince work instead from you :) [11:00] janimo: how big is the patch? [11:00] mvo, 1000 line diff [11:00] janimo: so I would have to wait on you to update to the new versions and that would slow us down [11:01] updating evince is 10min of work [11:01] seb128, I am updating against CVS quite often [11:01] and besides it would only affect the build of the -gtk package if the diff b0rked right? [11:01] no, if -gtk doesn't build the source package doesn't build [11:01] so if you are in VAC 2 weeks and a no package cames? [11:02] well, you could disable the -gtk package then until it get fixed by someone else ... [11:02] seb128, ok. [11:02] I either have to wait for you, to update the patch myself, or to drop -gtk [11:02] well drop gtk then in that case [11:02] anyway I probably have the patch updated by the time a release comes [11:02] mvo: if we are going to drop and put -gtk again, I like as well having a separate source package [11:02] I assume you do not package CVS snapshots [11:02] whoa, we totally need the firefox open dialogue back [11:02] janimo: I do sometime, depending of the bugs fixed and how upstream is reactive to roll new tarballs [11:02] seb128, not quite, a new source package is different in the pool [11:03] jdub: it breaks epiphany :/ [11:03] seb128: the removal? === Keybuk giggles as a notification popup misses the icon [11:03] apparently I need to click "tomboy" to restart my computer :p [11:03] jdub: yep, do "do you want to open ... save" dialog [11:03] seb128, pitti whatever is good for you, I just want evince-gtk in the archive ;) [11:03] jdub: and it puts everything to /tmp [11:03] Keybuk: well, do it! :) [11:03] seb128: I was thinking about it from a "maintain in stable" perspective, but I guess that point is moot anyway because usually it's libpoppler that needs updating (e..g security) and not evince*. so I shut up now :) [11:04] seb128: erk! [11:04] mvo, sorry I did not get around to gconf/ini in update-manager [11:04] jdub: it breaks everything using gecko in fact [11:04] yet [11:04] janimo: the window hasn't yet totally closed :) [11:04] Keybuk: hrm, no icon from notification-daemon? [11:05] jdub: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/32934 [11:05] malone bug 32934 in firefox "auto-download breaks embedders" [Normal,Confirmed] [11:05] mvo: you want to stop using gconf? [11:06] mvo: yeah, but it lept to the left after the window popped up [11:06] seb128, either that or gnome-python needs splitting [11:06] one of the panel applets must have got wider [11:06] probably the clock or weather applet === jdub is watching french tv === Keybuk mutters about non-constant-width applets [11:06] seb128, update-manager pulls in whole gnome libs too just bec of gconf [11:06] right [11:06] seb128: only if janimo provides a clean patch for it. the idea is that update manager can than be used in xubuntu as well [11:06] it's not right ;) === mpt [n=mpt@219-89-159-215.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:07] but we should not start crippling Ubuntu because some derivative can't stand GNOME [11:07] seb128, I was just thinking that you'll say something with 'crippling' in it [11:07] seb128: can we get gimp-svg into dektop seed? [11:07] seb128, update-manager should be an ubuntu updater not a gnome one, please stop being such a bigot :) [11:08] jdub: fine with me, but you should ask to mdz or Kamion, I'm not deciding of that :) [11:08] janimo: please don't call be a bigot [11:08] seb128: this is really a minor change, it's about storing ~10 conf options [11:08] janimo: I didn't insult you [11:08] seb128, excuse-moi I had a smiley too in there just in case [11:08] mvo: right, but should I move nautilus away from gconf next? :p [11:09] seb128, no need to xubuuntu won't use nautilus [11:09] no they have thunar :) [11:09] mvo: we can port the whole GNOME using ini format if you take it that way [11:09] janimo: there is not only xubuntu :) [11:09] seb128, please stop exagerrating [11:09] mvo: we shouldn't *remove* gconf support from it, or we'll lose the administrative features [11:09] I only want the places which are not obviously gnome to not depend on it [11:10] janimo: I would rather see mvo fixing Ubuntu bugs than spending efforts moving away from GNOME to please derivates to be honest [11:10] seb128, realize that gconf and gnome-client small as they are usually are enough for apps to be rewrtittem from scracth for kde or whatever just because they pull in [11:10] the whole gnome stack [11:10] hwdb-client,upadte,rlanguage-selector etc [11:10] KDE will not use GTK apps for its desktop anyway [11:10] these could all be written in pure gtk and than a qt version would foloow [11:11] but because of a tiny libe they're written from scratch [11:11] there are good reasons why we need to use gconf [11:11] same with g-s-s gnome-mount g-p-m [11:11] can you fix gconf not to pull in the entire gnome stack? [11:11] the functionality added by gnome libs is minimal but just enough to keep the desktops reimplementing all of it [11:11] seb128, right mvo will fix bugs that's why I said I'll write the ini file patch [11:11] jdub: right [11:12] Lathiat: liborbit2-dev, libxml2-dev,libgtk2.0-dev is not what I'd call entire gnome stack [11:12] Lathiat: gconf is not the problem [11:12] pitti: which one is a working kurdish locale? === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.25] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:12] Lathiat, gconf bu itself does not pull gnome in , just the pythoin=-gnome bindings [11:13] janimo: ah [11:13] morning all! [11:13] similarly gnomecanvas-python -> all gnome libs [11:13] that seems to be a common problem with the python gnome stuff [11:13] and related bits [11:14] like dbus needing glib main loop which was actually in gtk which would importerror if DISPLAY wasn't set [11:14] Kamion: do you recall the culmus patch I've sent you? what do we need to do in order to backport it to breezy? (same issue, same fix) === seb128_ [n=seb128@ANancy-151-1-70-63.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:14] janimo: if it were to be done,m it would have to be a rebuild or something like that - we can't sacrifice gconf in general [11:14] seb128, really tying stuff to gnome only is not helping the fd.o goal [11:14] uh all, he said fd.o :) [11:15] sivang: uh, I thought the old font location was just fine for breezy [11:15] re [11:15] doko: ku_TR.UTF-8 is supposed to work [11:15] sorry got disconnected [11:15] the functionality added by gnome libs is minimal but just enough to keep the desktops reimplementing all of it [11:15] mvo: if you move away from gconf, makes sure derivatives have a way to set different default values and that mandatory values are possible too [11:15] differents values without changing the package [11:15] otherwise we'd have been fixing these issues like mad in breezy rather than fixing them like mad in dapper, surely? [11:15] (like gconf.defaults stuff we have) [11:15] jdub, for update-manager you mean? I asked mvo and he said he just uses it for somehting ini files would do no fancy notification stuff or such [11:15] JanC JaneW janimo [11:15] Lathiat: no, gconf triggers orbit2 and libxml2 basically [11:15] Kamion: appears not, already seen on that on 2 boxes near me.. [11:15] Kamion: let me recheck just to make sure. [11:15] seb128_: right, the problem is [11:15] 18:12 < janimo> Lathiat, gconf bu itself does not pull gnome in , just the pythoin=-gnome bindings [11:15] sivang: otherwise, you'll have to talk to the backports people; they have a mailing list [11:15] janimo: not using gconf means we lose administrative benefits [11:16] Lathiat: so the solution is to split python stuff, not to cripple the app [11:16] janimo: it would be better to split out python-gconf [11:16] sivang: but [11:16] and the default value setting too [11:16] seb128_: as we're discovering [11:16] sivang: if it's broken, then breezy-updates would be more appropriate than breezy-backports, probably [11:16] jdub, yes that would be better but seb said users don;t care about it [11:16] janimo: yes they do [11:16] janimo: you don't, but users do [11:16] jdub, tell seb :) [11:16] I didn't say they don't care [11:16] (-backports => shiny, -updates => didn't-work-before, basically) [11:16] I said it's not a priority [11:16] jdub, I mean the splitting not gconf [11:17] janimo: jdub raised a important point about the adminitstative stuff, I think it's better to try to make python-gnome split out gconf [11:17] janimo: i don't think splitting is relevant to users whether it's done or not [11:17] jdub, mvo I agree [11:18] so please tell seb128 that having granular python-gnome bindings is good :) [11:18] it may provide a solution to this problem [11:18] janimo: stop speaking like I was not here [11:19] and for hwdb-client [11:19] seb128, I did not want to highlight you [11:19] splitting python-gobject helped for flumotion - it's probably better to talk to upstream about this problem [11:19] janimo: if you mention my nickname you highlight me anyway [11:19] Kamion: oops, right. I need a breezy-update then. same issue, same remedy :-) [11:19] I toiught only seb128 not seb is you nick.oko === jdub woiuldn 't mind if the python bindings were maintained in their parent library sources ;) [11:20] (I just verified) [11:20] janimo: (you mentioned his whole nick, not just "seb") [11:20] ok, then my fault [11:20] Kamion: (I dislexitivy switched them in my mind) [11:21] sivang: ok, but I don't have time at the moment sorry, maybe somebody else does [11:22] man, I really wish soyuz told me which freaking binary packages were new [11:22] sooooooooo painful to process evolution-data-server otherwise [11:22] Kamion: okay, thanks. [11:23] Kamion: evolution-data-server-dbg :) [11:24] seb128_: (no offence but I like to check myself anyway in case of accidents) [11:24] but thanks [11:24] np, it was in case it's useful [11:24] only built on amd64 and i386? [11:24] I stopped trying to look on build logs to be honest [11:25] tracking every single package build log on launchpad is not funny === seb128_ has a look [11:25] no argument there, although it wasn't like it was easy before :( [11:25] seb128_: please add evolution-data-server-dbg to the supported seed [11:25] the daily page was useful [11:25] Kamion: ogra's build log page was pretty nice [11:25] k, will do that now [11:25] pitti: fair point, I never used that [11:26] I was looking on the daily pages before, that was giving an idea of what was building or not [11:26] " Timeout error [11:26] Sorry, Launchpad took too long to process your request. " [11:26] bah :) [11:26] seb128_: Monday morning dizzyness :-P [11:26] # dapper powerpc Dependency wait [11:26] # dapper ia64 Dependency wait [11:27] Kamion: [11:27] libgnomeui-dev: Depends: libgnomeui-0 (= 2.13.3-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed [11:27] Depends: libbonoboui2-dev (>= 2.8.1-2) but it is not going to be installed [11:27] dunno what is the issue exactly [11:27] jdub: speaking of which, ubuntu-artwork 1 failed to build: http://librarian.launchpad.net/1583720/buildlog_ubuntu-dapper-i386.ubuntu-artwork_1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz [11:27] maybe a retry would go fine [11:27]