[12:07] <allee> Tonio_: solution: bksys 1.5.1 changelog: documentation installation fixes
[12:08] <Tonio_> allee: ah ? :)
[12:08] <Tonio_> good news
[12:08] <allee> Tonio_: install kde.py and generic.py from bksys-1.5.1/admin/ into bksys, rebuild and the symlinks are gone
[12:09] <Tonio_> the problem is that it requires a big change in the tarball........
[12:10] <allee> Tonio_: 
[12:10] <allee> $ diff -u ../bksys.as-included/kde.py bksys/ | wc -l
[12:10] <allee> 292
[12:10] <hunger> Tonio_: Can you upload kdebase debs?
[12:10] <Tonio_> hunger: nope, only riddell can
[12:10] <allee> Tonio_: ~ 300 line diff is not big.  Put it into debian/patches/ ;)
[12:10] <hunger> Tonio_: Too bad:-( I have a couple of config files I'd like to get included:-)
[12:11] <Tonio_> allee: a cool, can provide a patch then ;)
[12:11] <Tonio_> hunger send riddell patches :)
[12:11] <allee> Tonio_: I'll send to you ...
[12:11] <Tonio_> allee: your my master, definitly :)
[12:11] <hunger> Tonio_: The files are attached to #33034... config to enable fish and sftp in zeroconf.
[12:11] <Tonio_> allee: okay, thanks, but I can do it myself :) anyway, tonio@ubuntu.com :)
[12:12] <hunger> They work nicely for me...
[12:13] <Tonio_> hunger, well, need to ask riddell about that :)
[12:13] <hunger> Should kubuntu support other zeroconf stuff as well?
[12:13] <hunger> Like telnet...?
[12:15] <hunger> It is easy enough to add that plus shell and login (which basically are telnet as well).
[12:15] <allee> hunger: I vote no.
[12:15] <allee> :)
[12:16] <hunger> allee: So do I... I have them, but I did not attach them to the bug with the other two.
[12:16] <hunger> Tonio_: Did you change kdmrc?
[12:17] <hunger> Tonio_: Would you mind changing the ServerCmd when doing so next time to what gdm uses, too (/usr/bin/X -br -audit 0)?
[12:18] <Tonio_> hunger: isn't that done ?
[12:19] <hunger> Tonio_: No, it still uses the only-left-for-compatibility path /usr/X11R6/....
[12:19] <Tonio_> hunger, okay, I will remember ;)
[12:20] <allee> Tonio_: mail sent
[12:20] <hunger> Tonio_: and the -audit 0 which stops the server from spamming the console it is started from is missing as well.
[12:20] <Tonio_> allee: thanks :)
[12:20] <Tonio_> hunger okay ;)
[12:20] <hunger> Not that that is a problem... but I think it would be nice to be consistent with gdm for purely estetic reasons:-)
[12:21] <hunger> Anyone got an idea why klaptopdaemon only suspends my laptop after I log out?
[12:22] <Tonio_> hunger: the problem is that patching kdebase for this........
[12:22] <hunger> Tonio_: I was asking since kdmrc was just updated here.
[12:23] <Tonio_> hunger, yes, I did the patch, but that requires a cdbs patch only for this, so........
[12:23] <Tonio_> patching after a freeze is generally to resolve problems
[12:24] <Tonio_> even if esthetic is important, I agree, that can be done for dapper+1, but we certainly have other emergency
[12:24] <hunger> Tonio_: So we will not get that into dapper?
[12:25] <hunger> Tonio_: I could file a bugreport for that... isen't solving a bug a reason to get it in? ;-)
[12:25] <Tonio_> I agree that -audit 0 is important :)
[12:25] <Tonio_> I will ask riddell about that tomorrow and eventually provide a patch
[12:25] <hunger> Tonio_: Not using a path that is deprecated is a reason, too.
[12:25] <Riddell> hmm?
[12:25] <hunger> Hi Riddell!
[12:25] <Tonio_> hunger, yes, when everything is debugged, that becomes important :)
[12:26] <Riddell> good evening
[12:26] <Tonio_> evening Riddell
[12:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: would you like a patch to change X patch in kdmrc ?
[12:26] <Tonio_> X path sorry
[12:26] <Riddell> what would that be for?
[12:27] <hunger> Riddell: kdm still uses the pre-X-reorg path to the server...
[12:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: not using a depreciated path.... and eventually adding -audit 0
[12:27] <hunger> Riddell: You never know when that will go away... gdm uses the new one for a while.
[12:29] <Riddell> what does -audio 0 do?
[12:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: stops the server from spamming the console it is started from
[12:29] <hunger> Riddell: stopps the server from writting stuff to stderr.
[12:29] <Tonio_> ubuntu's GDM uses that
[12:29] <Riddell> is that bad?
[12:30] <hunger> Riddell: gdm uses that, too. I am for adding it mostly to use the same commandline as gdm.
[12:30] <Riddell> what happens if you have an error, harder to find out what's the problem
[12:31] <hunger> Riddell: It stopps logging of fairly uninteressting xauth stuff that goes to the logfiles anyway.
[12:34] <hunger> Riddell: While changing kdebase... I came up with some config files to make konqueror handle fish and sftp-ssh zeroconf stuff. Could those get added as well?
[12:34] <Riddell> how do you advertise those?
[12:35] <hunger> Riddell: See http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?s=756cd79c1eca73da9fb5c70fd2384989&t=137073
[12:35] <hunger> Riddell: Gnome handles them for a while now... always annoyed me that it does not work in KDE:-)
[12:36] <raphink> Riddell: I've got a patch for adept
[12:36] <raphink> Riddell: but I'd like to ask for a favor, if I may call that so
[12:36] <Riddell> gnome does fish?
[12:37] <Riddell> raphink: what's that?
[12:37] <raphink> Riddell: could you please keep my changelog this time?
[12:37] <Riddell> hunger: interesting
[12:37] <hunger> Riddell: Dunno about fish, but it does handle sftp-ssh (at least on my friends debian box).
[12:37] <Riddell> raphink: hmmmmm
[12:37] <raphink> I, for one, love to contribute to Ubuntu, but I dislike very much that my name be removed from my contributions
[12:37] <raphink> it doesnt' cost anything to keep the changelog I bring in the debdiff
[12:38] <raphink> I do it for all contributors I upload for
[12:38] <Riddell> well I make sure the name is in the changelog
[12:38] <Riddell> I just get worried when e-mail doesn't go to me since I've no idea if it'll go anywhere
[12:38] <raphink> Riddell: I mean keeping the changelog
[12:38] <raphink> with my name as releaser of the version
[12:38] <hunger> Riddell: So he was able to get to the files via zeroconf while I had to figure out how to configure zeroconf:-(
[12:38] <raphink> if I want o apply for core-dev it might help to find packages in main with my name
[12:38] <raphink> not only with a mention to my work somewhere in the middle
[12:39] <Riddell> grep is your friend :)
[12:39] <raphink> Riddell: with soyouz, both the guys in changelog and the one who signed get the email
[12:39] <Riddell> hunger: how well have you managed to get libnss-mdns working?
[12:39] <Riddell> raphink: ok
[12:39] <raphink> Riddell: grep is not TB's friend when they look at your work in Ubuntu
[12:39] <hunger> Riddell: Is that needed?
[12:39] <raphink> you've got no time to grep all packages
[12:39] <raphink> for contribution
[12:39] <hunger> Riddell: I just installed avahi-daemon...
[12:39] <Riddell> hunger: of course, otherwise you can't connect to any services so foo.local
[12:40] <Riddell> s/so/at/
[12:40] <raphink> so I'd like it very much if you could just sign with -k instead of making a new changelog mentionning my name
[12:40] <raphink> :)
[12:41] <raphink> all the more that sometimes you somehow modify the changelog in a way that doesn't reflect the work that was done, or just forget to mention who did the work
[12:41] <raphink> like in kubuntu-default-settings for example, on which I think Tonio has been spending quite a lot of time
[12:41] <raphink> and in whose changelog his name doesn't appear once
[12:42] <raphink> ;)
[12:42] <Riddell> [ Anthony Mercatante ] 
[12:42] <Riddell> all his changes are marked in the standard fashion
[12:42] <Riddell> although he missed a few out himself I think
[12:42] <raphink> hmm not in all packages 
[12:43] <raphink> I remember having seen one that didn't mention him
[12:43] <raphink> anyway
[12:43] <raphink> my point is rather to keep the modifier's changelog
[12:43] <raphink> and just sign it with your key
[12:43] <raphink> I'd appreciate that very much :)
[12:43] <Riddell> I missed his name out from the last but one kdebase upload it's true, but I put it back in retrospectively
[12:44] <raphink> ok :)
[12:44] <raphink> well that is not my point really though, and I think you got it
[12:44] <raphink> when I get my packages sponsored, I expect the changelog to be kept
[12:45] <Riddell> sure, I'll use your upload as an experiment
[12:45] <raphink> hehe ok :)
[12:45] <raphink> you just have to sign it using
[12:45] <raphink> debuild -S -sa -kyourkeyID
[12:45] <Tonio_> hum, my two cents
[12:45] <raphink> and that's it :)
[12:45] <Riddell> I know
[12:45] <Tonio_> that's not very important to me, as long as it works after building, but I must say I can understant some people feel important to see theiur changelog with their name
[12:46] <Riddell> and that's why I always include it :)
[12:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum, I didn't even told you about that, but as everyone, you can sometime forget :)
[12:46] <Tonio_> kubuntu-default-settings (1:6.04-5) dapper; urgency=low
[12:47] <Tonio_> this changelog is a big work I did and my name isn't mentionned
[12:47] <Tonio_> I personnaly don't mind, but another personn could have been hurt I assume
[12:47] <Riddell> eek, yes
[12:48] <Riddell> your right there, that's wrong of me, sorry about that
[12:48] <Riddell> I'll put it in retrospectively
[12:48] <Tonio_> I know all of you know my work, that this is a progress and that's enought for me, for I'm not "everyone" :)
[12:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: don't say you are sorry, I DON'T MIND :)
[12:48] <Riddell> "Mon,  9 Jan 2006 04:50:25 +0000"  it was almost 5 in the morning though :)
[12:48] <Tonio_> otherwise, I would have told you before
[12:51] <Riddell> raphink: anyhoo, you had a patch?
[12:51] <raphink> Riddell: I'm pbuilding it to test it before giving it to you
[12:51] <raphink> :)
[12:51] <raphink> I'll give it to you as soon as I'm sure it works :)
[12:52] <Tonio_> guys, can we still ask for uvf exception now ?
[12:52] <Riddell> I'm probably about to go to bed soon
[12:52] <raphink> ok
[12:52] <raphink> then you'll get it tomorrow ;)
[12:52] <raphink> doesn't matter
[12:52] <raphink> Tonio_: oui
[12:53] <Tonio_> ok merci ;)
[12:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: I will try to finish that patch for systemapplet in the next days
[12:53] <Riddell> Tonio_: which patch?
[12:54] <Tonio_> and have a look at file associations
[12:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: system:/ causing files copied to tmp before opening
[12:54] <Riddell> ah, that patch
[12:54] <Tonio_> I have done a working patch, but I miss the real name of .desktop then so that's not good
[12:54] <Riddell> Tonio_: k-d-s works perfect, uploading
[12:54] <Tonio_> I will try to grab the code of kde 3.4.2
[12:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: cool :)
[12:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: did you try the gtk_qt_engine autoconfig on new profiles ?
[12:55] <Tonio_> I tested outside of the package and that was okay
[12:57] <allee> Tonio_: fwiw, toma wrote a little helper app to convert media: and system: url to normal path (should be useful for little .desktop hacks)
[12:58] <raphink> Riddell: shall I email you the debdiff ?
[12:58] <Riddell> raphink: sure
[12:58] <raphink> Riddell: jriddell@ubuntu.com right?
[12:59] <Riddell> yes
[12:59] <Tonio_> allee: hum........; in fact the problem isn't to convert urls, it is to patch the applet not to use the url parser :)
[12:59] <Tonio_> or eventually to patch the parser
[12:59] <allee> ah
[01:00] <Tonio_> allee: but avoiding the parser causes another issue, cause the same parser is parsing the desktop file "name"
[01:00] <Tonio_> so I have to patch there this time
[01:00] <Tonio_> kde 3.4.2 was perfect in fact, duonnu why they changed this..........
[01:00] <Tonio_> oula !!!! s/duonnu:dunno :)
[01:01] <allee> Tonio_: you mean.  Your goal is that the parser check if system: or media: is a local URL and then substitues /usaul/path/to/file?  that would be great :)
[01:01] <raphink> Riddell: patch sent :)
[01:02] <Tonio_> allee: nope, that's exactly what it actually does
[01:02] <Tonio_> allee: I want to avoir that :)
[01:02] <allee> Eh?
[01:02] <Tonio_> to come back to /home/bla instead of system:/home
[01:03] <raphink> Riddell: please ignore the mail I forgot one things :(
[01:03] <raphink> huhu
[01:03] <raphink> Riddell: ok?
[01:03] <Tonio_> allee: browse with system:/home, and open a big file, like an avi movie, a big ogg, or even a big log file with kate for example
[01:03] <Tonio_> allee: it gets copied in tmp before launching, which is a real PAIN
[01:04] <allee> Mhmm, looks like we _both_ want /home/bla instead of system:/home.  Regardless how I failed to explain it ;)
[01:04] <Tonio_> ho sorry I missunderstood :)
[01:04] <Riddell> raphink: ok
[01:04] <Tonio_> allee: end of day, sorry :)
[01:04] <raphink> Riddell: forgot the icon for the installer ;)
[01:04] <raphink> Riddell: could be nicer with an icon hehe
[01:05] <allee> Tonio_: keep on the great work!
[01:05] <Tonio_> allee: yes, that's my wanted, :) I tried to avoid using the parser, and that works, but it creates a problem to parse the .desktop Name entry, so we have to patch the parser directly
[01:05] <Riddell> Tonio_: see ubuntu-motu list for new uvf process
[01:05] <Tonio_> allee: the problem is that my knowledge in cpp is about 0
[01:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay ;)
[01:06] <Tonio_> allee: concerning kdissert, you should put your name in the changelog and add it to the wiki page
[01:07] <allee> Tonio_: wiki? where?
[01:07] <LaserJock> Riddell: is the Ubuntu Packaging Guide included in kubuntu-docs?
[01:07] <Tonio_> allee: you will not become a motu, although you are the best of us, if you act like a ghost :)
[01:07] <Tonio_> allee: don't you have a wiki page ?
[01:07] <Riddell> LaserJock: good question, I was going to look that up when you first asked and got distracted
[01:07] <Tonio_> allee: you did the patch, all you have to do is creating the changelog and signing it
[01:07] <allee> Tonio_: ah, you mean my homepage on wiki.
[01:08] <allee> Tonio_: and upload to revu? Send you the debdiff?
[01:08] <Tonio_> allee: yes ;) It is too empty and you spend you time helping us for free.... sign your work and become a motu !!!
[01:09] <allee> Tonio_: I have to pass membership first ;)  I added already a bit of contents to my wiki home page a week ago ;)
[01:09] <Tonio_> allee: well, the patch is done, so you should really make it yourself ;) It'll take only 20 seconds
[01:09] <Tonio_> allee: even better, with that kind of patches and bug resolving, it'll be easier to become a member
[01:10] <Riddell> LaserJock: yes it is
[01:10] <allee> Tonio_: Stupid question: I assume there's a malone bug.  So I attach the debdiff there and ping someone here to upload?
[01:11] <LaserJock> Riddell: ah, great. thanks. I'll commit my copyright changes in a minute. I just needed to know about the packaging guide because it is the only doc that is GPL'd
[01:11] <Tonio_> allee: I don't think there is a malone bug for this.... I didn't hear about it anyway
[01:11] <allee> Tonio_: oh? and you did you know about/found this wrong link?
[01:11] <Tonio_> allee: what I would do if I were you is probably create the bug, uploading to revu, and I will ask for UVF maybe
[01:12] <Tonio_> allee: sebas asked me to look at it ;)
[01:12] <allee> Tonio_: okay ...
[01:12] <Tonio_> allee: I can't imagin my mentor isn't still a member ;)
[01:13] <allee> Tonio_: I don't fit in any imagination ;)
[01:13] <Tonio_> allee: haha
[01:13] <Tonio_> Riddell: before going to bed, is there a plan to correct systemsettings major bugs before dapper is out ?
[01:14] <Riddell> Tonio_: damn well better be
[01:14] <Tonio_> it would be a shame to release dapper with all bugs breezy's version add....
[01:14] <Riddell> that'll be my focus after espresso is done
[01:14] <Tonio_> If I was a standard user and not aware of the situation, I wouldn't understand I must say
[01:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: great ;)
[01:15] <Tonio_> unfortunately I can't help on that point.....;;;
[01:15] <Tonio_> raphink ?
[01:16] <raphink> Tonio_: yep?
[01:16] <Riddell> raphink: adding translations in adept should be done through KDE SVN
[01:16] <Tonio_> raphink: http://www.planetemu.net/temp/adept-installer.svgz
[01:16] <Riddell> otherwise they're far too hard to maintain
[01:16] <Tonio_> raphink: http://www.planetemu.net/temp/adept-installer.png
[01:16] <raphink> Riddell: ah
[01:16] <Riddell> raphink: do you have access to KDE's SVN?
[01:16] <raphink> Riddell: well it's just something I added as I changed the position in the menu and the NoDisplay for updater and notifier
[01:16] <raphink> it's not the main change
[01:16] <Riddell> yep
[01:17] <raphink> :)
[01:17] <Tonio_> allee: will you tell me when you have done the job with kdissert ? I will ask for uvf exception
[01:17] <Riddell> raphink: files in http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/l10n/fr/messages/playground-sysadmin/ if you want to do them
[01:17] <Riddell> they're mostly done anyway
[01:18] <allee> Tonio_: k  but will take a while: pbuild run missing
[01:18] <Tonio_> ho I forgot to translate the second pot file for systemsettings
[01:18] <raphink> Riddell: I don't have an access to kde svn
[01:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: any reason they are not on rosetta ?
[01:19] <Riddell> Tonio_: rosetta has not imported dapper strings yet
[01:19] <Riddell> will do at string freeze
[01:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay ;)
[01:19] <raphink> :)
[01:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: euh........; string freeze ? means nothing will be translated after that ?
[01:20] <Tonio_> or means everything will have to be translated after ?
[01:21] <Riddell> raphink: forwarding your patch to mornfall for his comments
[01:21] <raphink> Riddell: hmm sure, I'm building again to test the icons
[01:21] <LaserJock> hi raphink 
[01:21] <Riddell> Tonio_: means no strings will change so translation can begin
[01:21] <raphink> hi LaserJock 
[01:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay ;)
[01:22] <Riddell> raphink: what are the icons?
[01:22] <raphink> Riddell: icons tonio gave me for adept_installer
[01:22] <raphink> he said mornfall approved them
[01:22] <raphink> http://www.planetemu.net/temp/adept-installer.png
[01:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: http://www.planetemu.net/temp/adept-installer.png
[01:22] <Tonio_> arf
[01:22] <raphink> hehe
[01:23] <raphink> ;)
[01:23] <raphink> so I made 16 22 32 & 48 versions of them
[01:23] <raphink> to be installed with the package
[01:23] <Riddell> ah, groovy
[01:23] <Tonio_> raphink: isn't 64 and 128 required ?
[01:23] <raphink> :)
[01:23] <raphink> Tonio_: I just provided the sizes that are provided for the other apps in the package
[01:24] <Riddell> raphink: if you're playing with adept you could look at adding .desktop file for libxine extra codecs and call it MPsupport
[01:24] <raphink> I don't think 64 and 128 can be used for menu entries
[01:24] <Riddell> MP3 support
[01:24] <raphink> hmm
[01:24] <raphink> interesting
[01:24] <raphink> where would that be?
[01:25] <Tonio_> ah ;)
[01:25] <Tonio_> raphink: that means we have to create a .desktop file for this entry
[01:25] <Tonio_> adept-installer is using a .desktop file per installable program
[01:26] <robotgeek> raphink: is that the package to install for all the nice stuff, instead of gstreamer?
[01:26] <raphink> Tonio_: ah, so good idea
[01:26] <raphink> robotgeek: yep
[01:26] <Tonio_> robotgeek: it is the package that add mp3 support to xine
[01:26] <raphink> robotgeek: seems Riddell's idea is to have an entry in adept_installer to just select it
[01:26] <raphink> that would prevent from using easyubuntu for that
[01:26] <robotgeek> raphink: that would be great!
[01:28] <robotgeek> raphink: i'm not happy about all those scripts either, but no matter what we try, they seem not to go away
[01:28] <raphink> Tonio_: I don't see where the desktop files for installer are
[01:28] <raphink> robotgeek: they do a job official stuff don't do
[01:28] <Tonio_> raphink: hum........;
[01:28] <Tonio_> let me check
[01:28] <raphink> robotgeek: we need to provide the same services with clean solutions
[01:28] <Tonio_> I didn't saw that myselft, but I discussed that with mornfall
[01:28] <robotgeek> raphink: +1
[01:29] <raphink> Tonio_: ah
[01:29] <raphink> mornfall doesn't seem to be around though
[01:29] <robotgeek> raphink: yes, mp3-support. video-support metapackages would be great 
[01:30] <allee> Tonio_: so should one now add my e-mail into maintainer or add a [Achim Bohnet] ?
[01:31] <Tonio_> allee: well, depends :)
[01:31] <Tonio_> will you maintain it is the future or is it a nmu ?
[01:31] <Tonio_> I assume nmu no ?
[01:31] <Tonio_> so fill the chagelog yourself and that's it ;)
[01:32] <allee> better: [Achim Bohnet]  then. I never started kdissert 
[01:32] <allee> + don't know how it looks like ;)
[01:33] <Tonio_> allee: and whose name for the changelog ?
[01:34] <allee> Tonio_: uploader?
[01:35] <Tonio_> hum......that's exactly the oposite of what we were talking about with riddell :)
[01:35] <allee> Tonio_: well, I will not maintain it in the sense of a debian maintainer, but as a member of Kubuntu Team I fix bugs as time/knowledge permits, even in kdissert ;)
[01:35] <Tonio_> allee: won't you upload it to revu ?
[01:35] <Riddell> raphink: in /usr/share/app-install/desktop/
[01:35] <allee> allee: I'll upload to revu.
[01:36] <Riddell> robotgeek: libxine-extracodecs
[01:36] <raphink> thanks Riddell :)
[01:36] <raphink> I was trying to understand it in the installer c++ code ;)
[01:36] <raphink> Riddell: where do these desktop files come from?
[01:36] <allee> Tonio_: btw. does NMU make sense in the (K)ubuntu context.  All MOTUs are the maintainers, aren't they?
[01:36] <robotgeek> Riddell: awesome, one package to provide them all
[01:36] <Tonio_> allee: in fact, yes :) you're right
[01:37] <Riddell> allee: correct, it doesn't make sense
[01:37] <Riddell> raphink: not sure the exact process, mvo makes them somehow for gnome-app-install
[01:37] <raphink> allee: NMU can be totally ignored in Ubuntu
[01:37] <Riddell> I think it extracts them from uploaded packages on the buildds
[01:37] <Riddell> but quite a lot of the icons are missing
[01:37] <raphink> Riddell: there's a huge list of desktops in there
[01:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: just to know, didn't you habe the time to look at gwenview patch, or is there a problem with it ?
[01:39] <Riddell> Tonio_: didn't I upload?
[01:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: cause I have another (easier) way to make the package building correctly
[01:39] <raphink> Riddell: no package installs anything in /usr/share/app-install/desktop/
[01:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum........ I don't see it on the repos :)
[01:39] <Riddell> Accepted gwenview 1.3.1-0ubuntu3 (source)
[01:39] <raphink> Riddell: so it must be generated somehow
[01:39] <Tonio_> maybe non build at the moment
[01:39] <allee> Tonio_, Riddell: 'k changed to 1.0.5.debian-2build2.  Question: add my e-mail to maintainer-field or/and additionaly [My name] 
[01:40] <Tonio_> allee: if I were you, I wouldn't touch the maintenair in control, just feel the changelog
[01:40] <Tonio_> that's how I do personally
[01:40] <Riddell> we tend not to change the maintainer field in ubuntu
[01:41] <allee> Tonio_: no,no I only talk about changelog  maintainer-field:  -- Achim Bohnet <ach@mpe.mpg.de>  Mon, 27 Feb 2006 23:41:19 +0100
[01:41] <Tonio_> ah, sorry
[01:41] <Tonio_> allee: well, personnaly, I had my email in the changelog
[01:41] <Tonio_> raphink: don't you do like that ?
[01:42] <raphink> Tonio_: like what?
[01:42] <Tonio_> raphink: read 5 lines upper :)
[01:43] <raphink> I prefer to have just an entry in the changelog
[01:43] <raphink> I mean a whole one ;)
[01:43] <raphink> ok need to work more on the icons in adept
[01:43] <raphink> there's something wrong
[02:40] <allee> Tonio_: kdissert: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2072
[02:40] <Tonio_> allee: great ;)
[02:40] <Tonio_> will post uvh tomorrow :)
[02:40] <Tonio_> bed time :)
[02:40] <Tonio_> uvf not uvh
[02:48] <allee> Does upload to revu count as 'fix commited' in lauchpad?
[02:48] <allee> Tonio_: ^^
[02:50] <Tonio_> allee: any package where you have a changelog feet has an entry to your launchpad account according to what I know :)
[02:50] <allee> Tonio_: yeah, quite confusing ;)
[02:51] <allee> Tonio_: question is, now after revu upload https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdissert/+bug/33105, can I set bug to fix-commited ? 
[02:52] <Tonio_> ah ! Iassume yes of course :)
[03:15] <raphink> Riddell: you there?
[08:22] <Mez> grr
[08:57] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ping!
[08:59] <Hobbsee> Riddell: any chance we can move the meeting to be on thurs 16th, 20.00 UTC?  I cant make it on wednesdays 20 UTC as i'm driving at that point, then have no internet access.
[10:05] <viviersf> omw
[10:06] <viviersf> Riddell, PING !!!!!!!!!
[10:06] <jpatrick> ok, I think he broke something...
[10:06] <viviersf> lol jpatrick 
[10:10] <Tonio_> hello
[10:12] <jpatrick> hey Tonio_ 
[10:13] <freeflying> Tonio_: http://ubuntu-zh.3322.org/screenshot/kdmsplash.png
[10:14] <Tonio_> freeflying: yes, we need to had a depandancy on k-d-s
[10:14] <Tonio_> freeflying: install moodin or kubuntu-desktop and it'll be okay
[10:14] <freeflying> Tonio_: got it ,thx
[10:16] <freeflying> Tonio_: moodin ?
[10:17] <Tonio_> freeflying: yes, a ksplash engine
[10:18] <Tonio_> actually kubuntu-desktop depends on it, but not k-d-s
[10:18] <jpatrick> freeflying: ksplash-engine-moodin
[10:18] <Tonio_> yep
[10:44] <raphink> Riddell: hi
[10:47] <mornfall|work> Riddell: hi
[10:47] <mornfall|work> Riddell: as for the debdiff
[10:47] <jpatrick> ^^ hehe
[10:47] <mornfall|work> Riddell: disabling adept updater from menu makes it useless for users who do not wish to use notifier
[10:48] <mornfall|work> Riddell: doing so for notifier makes it hard to get it back running when you disable it
[10:48] <raphink> people who do not want to use the notifier can launch adept manager for updates
[10:48] <mornfall|work> (as in, you need to go to commandline to do so -- the UI rule of thumb is that any action should be undoable)
[10:49] <mornfall|work> raphink: it's not the same
[10:49] <raphink> mornfall|work: talking about adept, I've been searching how I could add libxine-extra-codecs to the menus in installer
[10:49] <Tonio_> hello
[10:49] <mornfall|work> raphink: drop a .desktop file to /usr/share/app-install/desktop/
[10:50] <raphink> mornfall|work: I don't get how these desktop files are created 
[10:50] <mornfall|work> (package is app-install-data)
[10:50] <raphink> no package creates them it seems
[10:50] <raphink> ah
[10:50] <raphink> ok
[10:50] <mornfall|work> raphink: not my business... i think they are collected from apps and the X-AppInstall things are added :)
[10:50] <Tonio_> mornfall|work: the *rare* users who don't want to use the notifier generally use apt, and even if not, they know how to modify a .desktop file
[10:50] <Tonio_> that's my feeling
[10:50] <robotgeek> raphink: will you ping me when you are done, i will update the K Desktop Guide to reflect the changes?
[10:51] <mornfall|work> Tonio_: dunno, any survey to back that up?
[10:51] <mornfall|work> Tonio_: also, what about the undoability of actions
[10:51] <raphink> robotgeek: sure
[10:51] <robotgeek> raphink: ty
[10:51] <Tonio_> mornfall|work: you mean ? "undoability of actions" ?
[10:51] <jpatrick> lets vote at Kubuntu meeting - no wait to late
[10:51] <raphink> mornfall|work: we spend a lot of time helping newbies on IRC
[10:51] <mornfall|work> Tonio_: kill adept notifier and select to not run it next time
[10:51] <mornfall|work> Tonio_: now how you get it back through GUI?
[10:52] <Tonio_> mornfall|work: I can type the command......
[10:52] <Tonio_> I mean, a notifier isn't done to be disabled
[10:52] <mornfall|work> Tonio_: that's hardly GUI
[10:52] <mornfall|work> Tonio_: asking for confirmation is *not* a substitute for a way back
[10:52] <Tonio_> I don't think any gnome user will disable it on ubuntu
[10:52] <raphink> mornfall|work: if you see it this way, there should be tons of entries in the Kmenu for all the stuff that cdan be in the systray
[10:53] <mornfall|work> raphink: can you name a single one you can't get back after killing?
[10:53] <raphink> Tonio_: ++
[10:53] <Tonio_> mornfall|work: really, for 0.5% people that will want to play with it and not simply "let it do it's job", it sounds crazzy to make the K menu a mess for the 99.5% other people......
[10:53] <raphink> mornfall|work: they are not usually launched directly from the menu
[10:54] <mornfall|work> Tonio_: 0.5%, where is that number from?
[10:54] <Tonio_> mornfall|work: from the fact that ubuntu isn't gentoo
[10:54] <raphink> mornfall|work: now our idea is also that it could be nice to have installer or adept as a kcontrol module in systemsettings, and I think the notifier could be activated through systemsettings too
[10:54] <mornfall|work> raphink: right, so implement something to be able to get it back not from menu
[10:54] <Tonio_> it is not designed to be configured file by file....
[10:54] <mornfall|work> raphink: that's a nice idea, patches?
[10:55] <mornfall|work> Tonio_: that's useless made up number then
[10:55] <mornfall|work> Tonio_: it could be 10% and you would never be able to tell
[10:55] <raphink> mornfall|work: this is a wish, I don't think you'd blame me for the small amount of work I do in Ubuntu though
[10:55] <Tonio_> mornfall|work: well forget the number, that is stupid from me, okay
[10:56] <Tonio_> mornfall|work: the fact is that "normal" people, standard users, call it like you want, are certainly more thatn 50%
[10:56] <mornfall|work> i don't work on ubuntu at all
[10:56] <Tonio_> those people generally don't touch the settings too much
[10:56] <Tonio_> and will certainly not disable the update notifier
[10:56] <mornfall|work> Tonio_: again, that's not an argument
[10:56] <Tonio_> even if closed by error, it'll come back after a reboot, so......
[10:56] <mornfall|work> and it won't come back if you tell it not to
[10:56] <Tonio_> mornfall|work: the argument is that when you disable something, you are supposed to know how to come back......
[10:57] <mornfall|work> Tonio_: that's not what i hear from openusability
[10:57] <Tonio_> I don't say adept is to be done like that be default
[10:57] <Tonio_> but we think that's the way it should feet in ubuntu
[10:57] <Tonio_> in kubuntu to be exact
[10:57] <Tonio_> and that is about the same that what ubuntu does
[10:57] <Tonio_> and most people seems to appreciate ubuntu, so that shouldn't be a bad thing
[10:58] <mornfall|work> well, you remove functionality -- if you are willing to take over malone of adept and forward bugs upstream (since you diverge from upstream in kubuntu), i'm all for it
[10:58] <raphink> mornfall|work: there are much bigger issues of usability in Kubuntu, this is just very very minor
[10:58] <raphink> mornfall|work: when I disable the menus in an app and can't get them back unless I type ctrl+M, this is a big issue
[10:58] <Tonio_> mornfall|work: we clarify the desktop, which is completly different
[10:58] <Tonio_> mornfall|work: want a solution ?
[10:58] <raphink> mornfall|work: letting users lose a notifier that can be launched from a terminal... well
[10:58] <Tonio_> make adept-notifier a kde service
[10:59] <mornfall|work> no
[10:59] <Tonio_> that way it could be stopped and restarted without any desktop entry
[10:59] <mornfall|work> sorry
[10:59] <Tonio_> that's the way knemo doesn for example
[10:59] <mornfall|work> that's not acceptable
[10:59] <Tonio_> mornfall|work: why ?
[10:59] <mornfall|work> well, not if you mean kded module
[10:59] <mornfall|work> if there's a way to go about it without kded that could work
[10:59] <mornfall|work> but it's clearly a post 2.0 material (we are deep in feature freeze, recall?)
[11:01] <mornfall|work> the fact is, i am the current kubuntu maintainer of adept -- if someone wants to take over, i'll be happy about it
[11:01] <mornfall|work> with this goes malone and divergence from upstream
[11:01] <jpatrick> I can't
[11:01] <raphink> mornfall|work: you mean of the package ?
[11:01] <mornfall|work> yes
[11:02] <raphink> mornfall|work: adept is in main, you need a core-dev to maintain it
[11:02] <mornfall|work> i will be more than happy to give up on the pleasure of using malone
[11:02] <raphink> I'd be happy to maintain it
[11:02] <jpatrick> I'm not core-dev but I could get Riddell to upload
[11:02] <raphink> if I were one
[11:02] <mornfall|work> Riddell is sponsoring for me now
[11:03] <raphink> Tonio_: +1
[11:03] <mornfall|work> Tonio_: see, adept notifier needs to do ultra-expensive (for a kded module) processing and making kded run threaded is not an option
[11:03] <Tonio_> mornfall|work: ah ok, then I understand
[11:03] <Tonio_> just sure of one thing, if it was me, adept-notifier would be unstopable via a click
[11:03] <mornfall|work> Tonio_: if you like kded to freeze every now and then, feel free
[11:04] <Tonio_> it is not the purpose of a desktop oriented distro to give 2000 options used from the newbie to the absolute nerd
[11:04] <mornfall|work> also, kded *should not* crash -- ever
[11:04] <mornfall|work> and i am not overly confident in libapt-pkg not crashing the program
[11:04] <Tonio_> actually, when I see the system menu with "adept manager, adept updater, adept notifier, adept installer"
[11:04] <raphink> I'd be fine with 4 adept entries in the kmenu in debian or gentoo
[11:05] <raphink> but not in kubuntu
[11:05] <raphink> I intend to install kubuntu for my mom, sister or grandmother
[11:05] <Tonio_> me feeling is "when my mother will read this, will she event understand what could be the difference there ???"
[11:05] <raphink> and I don't want them to try to figure out why 4 entries have the same name
[11:05] <raphink> when they can hardly figure out what it's used for with one name
[11:05] <Tonio_> raphink: ++
[11:05] <mornfall|work> both of you
[11:06] <Tonio_> the personns who want to play with advanced settings are able to launched the notifier from the shell
[11:06] <raphink> I'm already getting mad when I have to help my mom with the comp ;)
[11:06] <mornfall|work> you know, there's this XDG menu standard to allow specifically this *without* patching every single .desktop file out there
[11:06] <Tonio_> as all of them generally spend their time in a console, like most of us
[11:06] <raphink> Ubuntu is Linux for _human beings_
[11:07] <raphink> not Linux for nerds
[11:07] <Tonio_> I wouldn't say the same if I was discussing of the gentoo desktop of course
[11:07] <raphink> indeed
[11:07] <raphink>  or even Debian
[11:07] <raphink> or Slack
[11:07] <Tonio_> yep
[11:07] <raphink> or whatever intended for people who know what they do
[11:07] <Tonio_> but ubuntu is in the category of mandriva or suse on that point
[11:08] <mornfall|work> i would hope you could do better than those two
[11:08] <Tonio_> we really hope
[11:08] <raphink> hope so too
[11:08] <Tonio_> but it is not is adding so many functionnalities that users will get lost
[11:08] <Tonio_> I know that in theory everyone is able to use it's desktop
[11:09] <mornfall|work> no, definitely not, anything made you think i would go that direction?
[11:09] <Tonio_> but in real life, 2 buttons instead of makes it so complicated for certain people, you cannot imagin
[11:09] <raphink> but I don't think we'll do better for noobs by having 4 adept entries in the menu. This is what Mandriva does, and it's horrible imo
[11:09] <mornfall|work> reality check, nearly all advanced functionality is semi-hidden in adept
[11:09] <Tonio_> managing applications doesn't require 4 applications
[11:09] <Tonio_> because that's it
[11:09] <raphink> my mom gets crazy with more than 2 options in a GUI
[11:09] <mornfall|work> it's not like i tried to push every single feature to the first sight
[11:09] <Tonio_> 4 entries in the K menu means 4 applications
[11:09] <Tonio_> mornfall|work: why not adding an option to the standard "adept manager"
[11:09] <raphink> mornfall|work: the feature is still there
[11:10] <raphink> notifier's feature is to run as a daemon in the systray
[11:10] <Tonio_> that would let you launch or stop the notifier
[11:10] <Tonio_> that's okay :)
[11:10] <mornfall|work> Tonio_: you know, a default desktop should not include adept manager at all
[11:10] <Tonio_> mornfall|work: ??
[11:10] <mornfall|work> Tonio_: no irony
[11:10] <mornfall|work> Tonio_: manager is *not* for the group of users you are talking about
[11:10] <mornfall|work> which is apparently your target group
[11:10] <mornfall|work> it has nothing to offer them
[11:11] <Tonio_> mornfall|work: ..........
[11:11] <mornfall|work> you want notifier in systray (possibly with quit removed)
[11:11] <Tonio_> not necessary to go with the extreme
[11:11] <mornfall|work> and installer in menu
[11:11] <mornfall|work> that's all
[11:11] <raphink> ok I'm tired of word games and turning around the problem. i'm gonna poll users on #kubuntu see what they think
[11:11] <mornfall|work> poll in irc channel?
[11:11] <robotgeek> it would make my job easier too. less applications to document
[11:11] <mornfall|work> how representative will that be of actual users?
[11:11] <raphink> mornfall|work: yeah you know you ask a question and you note the answers
[11:11] <jpatrick> robotgeek: heh
[11:12] <raphink> mornfall|work: I'm not a statistics company. I don't mind whether this is representative or not.
[11:12] <mornfall|work> see, i'm dead serious here
[11:12] <mornfall|work> there's nothing raphink's mom could use adept manager for
[11:12] <raphink> sure mornfall|work 
[11:12] <mornfall|work> specifically nothing she wouldn't be able to do with the 2 wizards
[11:13] <raphink> adept manager should be available in the Kmenu for more advanced users
[11:13] <raphink> but it's the only one that should be there imo
[11:13] <mornfall|work> what happens to installer then
[11:13] <raphink> it's moved to Qt;KDE;Core; together with SystemSettings so far
[11:13] <raphink> so it's available very easily
[11:13] <mornfall|work> aha
[11:14] <raphink> and it's labelled "Add/Remove Programs (Adept Installer)"
[11:14] <raphink> so it's easy to understand and use
[11:14] <raphink> Riddell agreed on this
[11:14] <raphink> mornfall|work: ideally, we'd like to have installer _inside_ systemsettings, as a kcontrol module
[11:14] <jpatrick> have a submenu?
[11:14] <mornfall|work> raphink: systemsettings, isn't that python?
[11:15] <mornfall|work> or it can use c++ kcontrol modules
[11:15] <Tonio_> yes, having it as a kcontrol module would be the best
[11:15] <mornfall|work> nothing stops you
[11:15] <raphink> mornfall|work: it can use c++ kcontrol modules
[11:15] <mornfall|work> but you are fairly late in the game
[11:15] <Tonio_> mornfall|work: a systemsettings module is simply a kcontrol one
[11:15] <mornfall|work> note that there won't be any major adept release for dapper+1
[11:15] <raphink> mornfall|work: there's no late, my goal is not only Dapper, it's Kubuntu in a whole. If it's not for Dapper, it'll be in 6 months
[11:16] <mornfall|work> which will be extended as needed
[11:16] <raphink> :)
[11:16] <mornfall|work> of course there's room for 2.x
[11:17] <mornfall|work> but i won't be able to invest much time in that
[11:17] <freeflying> any way ,we'd have a workable adept 
[11:17] <raphink> mornfall|work: I'd love to tell you that I could help you dev it, unfortunately I don't know c++, I want to develop REVU and I've got work in (K)Ubuntu
[11:18] <mornfall|work> i don't count on any external help with adept
[11:18] <mornfall|work> it's hopeless
[11:18] <mornfall|work> adept coding that is
[11:18] <raphink> why?
[11:19] <mornfall|work> would you? how many patches can you count in adept codebase that are not mine?
[11:19] <mornfall|work> i have started with this long time ago
[11:19] <mornfall|work> i had some people come and go, but they would never stick around for long
[11:20] <mornfall|work> it was called kapture back then and it was somewhat stupid
[11:20] <raphink> I've looked at the code myself yesterday
[11:20] <mornfall|work> i had no idea how to make a semi-decent GUI
[11:20] <raphink> I have seen no specification and no comment
[11:20] <raphink> so I very fast gave up 
[11:21] <raphink> when I want people to understand my code and help with it, I try to put some comments in it so they don't spend 2 days understanding it, that helps :)
[11:21] <mornfall|work> unfortunately, from experience, there's no use in commenting code -- it does not help
[11:21] <raphink> now I'm also not a c++ dev so it's hard for me to understand it for that reason ;)
[11:21] <raphink> hmm
[11:21] <mornfall|work> you start commenting code
[11:21] <mornfall|work> fine
[11:22] <mornfall|work> then you notice that noone is helping
[11:22] <mornfall|work> you try to maintain comments with somewhat reduced motivation
[11:22] <mornfall|work> then you give up
[11:22] <mornfall|work> then you start deleting comments that are hopelessly out of date and confuse you
[11:22] <raphink> well I put comments for myself, too ;)
[11:22] <mornfall|work> that type of comments is there
[11:22] <raphink> and remove the ones that are obsolete when they get to be
[11:23] <mornfall|work> whenever i write something particularly heavy i put a comment :)
[11:23] <mornfall|work> i also try to comment libapt-front since i'm not alone working on it
[11:23] <mornfall|work> (we are 2, enrico zini is helping out)
[11:24] <raphink> cool :)
[11:26] <Tonio_> the problem mornfall|work is that most people are used toplay with synaptic for ages now, even with a kde DM
[11:26] <mornfall|work> no that's not the problem
[11:26] <Tonio_> it'll take time for people to have "adept" as a reflex, but then I don't see any reason nobody would like to contribute, as it happens with most apps
[11:27] <mornfall|work> by that time it'll be far too late
[11:27] <mornfall|work> synaptic is stagnating too, since mvo does not have time
[11:27] <mornfall|work> there's very little outside activity pushing it forward
[11:28] <mornfall|work> if i were to place a bet, i'd say adept dies when i leave it
[11:28] <mornfall|work> (dies as in stops evolving)
[11:29] <mornfall|work> bbiab
[11:30] <raphink> you don't know about that mornfall|work, this is open source
[11:30] <raphink> ;)
[11:30] <raphink> you'd say NeXT was dead at a given time, yet Apple used it
[11:30] <mornfall|work> NeXT was not open source
[11:30] <raphink> Knmap was dead a year ago
[11:30] <raphink> and it was taken again into life and improved
[11:31] <raphink> only one guy is necessary to bring a project back to life whenever it's come to die
[11:31] <mornfall|work> possibly yes... in practice, it's rare
[11:32] <mornfall|work> (still bbiab)
[11:32] <raphink> in practice there aren't so many open-source devs
[11:32] <raphink> Riddell: are you there?
[11:36] <mornfall|work> right, so if you bet, you better bet on something that's likely
[11:36] <Riddell> raphink: hi
[11:36] <raphink> :)
[11:36] <raphink> Riddell: did you see my package on REVU?
[11:36] <nlindblad> hello
[11:37] <Riddell> raphink: which?
[11:37] <raphink> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2074
[11:38] <freeflying> Riddell: hi
[11:38] <mornfall|work> freeflying: hi, btw, adept still breaks on your machines?
[11:39] <freeflying> mornfall|work: ya, I can not it under my desktop and ibook
[11:39] <mornfall|work> ultra-weird
[11:39] <jpatrick> tiber's dying or what?
[11:40] <raphink> Riddell: the patch on the desktop files is the same, I just added the icons for installer
[11:40] <robotgeek> is it intentional that knode doesn't have a entry in the K-Menu? is it meant to be accessed as a Kontact Module?
[11:40] <raphink> Riddell: so I couldnt' send you the patch with the icons ;)
[11:40] <jpatrick> robotgeek: yes
[11:40] <robotgeek> jpatrick: thanks, will document accordingly
[11:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: hi ! Send you gwenview 0ubuntu4 yesterday, there was a problem with the package uploaded, due to dsc file
[11:40] <Riddell> robotgeek: yes
[11:41] <Riddell> raphink: ok
[11:41] <Riddell> Tonio_: what was the problem?
[11:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: .po files ignored, because the patches are not applied
[11:42] <Tonio_> I removed the .dsc and rebuild the source package, and it works like a charm
[11:42] <nlindblad> any idea if there'll be a working driver for those VIA grahpic cards found in laptops
[11:42] <Tonio_> but because it was already uploaded, I had to increment the version
[11:42] <Riddell> Tonio_: huh?   built that gwenview and it was working
[11:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: it builds, but patches are ignored
[11:43] <Tonio_> look at the deb ;) no .moc files in it
[11:43] <Tonio_> delete the dsc, rebuild the source package, pbuild again, and you'll see the deb is completly different
[11:43] <freeflying> Riddell: how to add depend on skim to scim's engine in main ? ask the maintainer for that ?
[11:43] <Tonio_> there was an warning regarding to the patches.......;;; don't remember
[11:44] <Tonio_> raphink: can you confirm that your gwenview is still in english ? (and that I'm not completly crazzy ^^)
[11:45] <raphink> Tonio_: confirmed
[11:45] <raphink> it's still in english here
[11:45] <Tonio_> but the patch works nicelly with the source package I sent you Riddell, tested on 3 machines
[11:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: you just have to sign and upload :)
[12:03] <raphink> same for ept Riddell ;)
[12:17] <robotgeek> hmm, i can't find a Kmenu entry for kfocus
[12:20] <Riddell> robotgeek: it ends up in Lost and Found
[12:20] <Riddell> /usr/share/applnk/Applications/kfocus.desktop
[12:20] <robotgeek> hmm,okay. I'm wondering if I should document that?
[12:21] <Riddell> report a bug would be the correct thing
[12:22] <robotgeek> okay, cool. will do
[12:24] <Riddell> sebas: we're keynote speakers! http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS9673237573.html
[12:25] <robotgeek> Riddell: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kfocus/+bug/33138 
[12:25] <freeflying> Riddell: how to add depend on skim to scim's engine in main ? ask the maintainer for that ?
[12:26] <Riddell> freeflying: but scim doesn't depend on skim
[12:27] <freeflying> Riddell: I mean the engine of scim ,such as scim-pinyin , scim-chewing ,etc.
[12:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: did you confirm with gwenview ?
[12:30] <jpatrick> robotgeek: I'm on it
[12:30] <Riddell> freeflying: but they don't depend on skim either
[12:31] <robotgeek> thanks jpatrick
[12:31] <Riddell> Tonio_: I don't understand the problem, it applied for me
[12:32] <freeflying> Riddell: because I don't want user to install scim in kubuntu , and these engine can work with skim and libscim , so needn't install scim in kubuntu 
[12:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: well, the package built on the server doesn't have any moc file in it
[12:33] <Tonio_> so I grabbed the source package and tried to pbuild it, and I saw the patches were not applied...
[12:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: don't know for you, but on the build server, the problem happened....
[12:34] <Tonio_> so maybe reuploading the rebuilt source package I sent you will correct the issue...
[12:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: all I know is that the actuall deb file doesn't have .moc files...
[12:35] <Tonio_> .mo files sorry
[12:35] <Riddell> freeflying: ah, so at the moment they depend on scim, but really they should depend on scim | skim
[12:35] <freeflying> Riddell: ya
[12:36] <Riddell> freeflying: just send me patches that change the depends to "scim | skim" I think is best
[12:36] <Riddell> or upload them to revu
[12:37] <raphink> Riddell: I confirm that gwenview is not translated in french in the new version
[12:37] <raphink> if that helps ;)
[12:38] <Riddell> well no, it needs to wait on a langpack update
[12:38] <jpatrick> hey JRe 
[12:38] <Riddell> Tonio_: why does a .deb need .moc files?
[12:38] <Tonio_> .mo file, I didn the correction, sorry :)
[12:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm building to show tou the log
[12:39] <Riddell> Tonio_: I have this in my build log from last night..
[12:39] <Riddell> Trying patch debian/patches/kubuntu_01_fix_po_directory.diff at level 0...1...success.
[12:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: confirmed
[12:39] <Tonio_> I have that too
[12:39] <Tonio_> the problem is that I didn't have that yesterday.........
[12:39] <Tonio_> amazing.......
[12:40] <Tonio_> anyway there is a problem, because if I apt-get source gwenview && sudo pbuilder build *.dsc
[12:40] <Tonio_> I then get the languages
[12:40] <Tonio_> maybe there was a little issue yesterday on the build machine
[12:41] <Tonio_> I show the build log to raphink yesterday, it was complagning the patches couldn't be applyed for some reason.......;
[12:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: can you compare the local built deb and the server one ?
[12:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: debdiff /var/cache/pbuilder/result/gwenview_1.3.1-0ubuntu3-i386.deb /var/cache/apt/archive/gwenview_1.3.1-0ubuntu3-i386.deb
[12:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: http://pastebin.com/576453
[12:44] <Tonio_> here is the diff result......... there was a problem though
[12:45] <Riddell> http://librarian.launchpad.net/1597448/buildlog_ubuntu-dapper-i386.gwenview_1.3.1-0ubuntu3_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz  looks fine
[12:45] <Riddell> Tonio_: what are you diffing?
[12:45] <Tonio_> the apt downloaded file and the same package locally build with pbuilder
[12:45] <Tonio_> only .mo files is the difference
[12:46] <Riddell> that's a good thing
[12:46] <Tonio_> the actuall debile on repos doesn't have .mo files, though I don't understand why
[12:46] <Riddell> it means they .mo files have been extracted and are waiting to be put into langpacks
[12:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: so they don't fit in packages directly ? ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[12:47] <Tonio_> and they don't go in debs finally
[12:47] <Riddell> no, they get sucked out of the debs after build
[12:47] <jpatrick> can someone pastebin their /usr/share/applnk/Applications/kfocus.desktop ?
[12:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay, sorry for bugging you with this anywa, just I didn't knew that process
[12:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum........ why are all other applications in french then ? ;)
[12:48] <Riddell> http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/576463
[12:48] <Riddell> Tonio_: universe apps keep their .mo files, main apps will have .mo files in language-pack-kde-base
[12:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay, taking notes of that :)
[12:48] <Tonio_> of course I couldn't understood without that information ;)
[12:49] <Riddell> Tonio_: write it on a wiki page somewhere so others will know
[12:49] <jpatrick> Riddell: where is the Lost & Found then?
[12:49] <Tonio_> what is amazing is the output I had yesterday, I will show you toonight, just at the same moment I had a problem with the patch applyance
[12:49] <Riddell> maybe even the packaging guide actually
[12:49] <Riddell> jpatrick: in the k-menu
[12:49] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes, I will probably toonight, I'm not available this afternoon
[12:50] <jpatrick> I see "Categories=Qt;KDE;Utility;"
[12:51] <Riddell> jpatrick: it's because it's in the obsolete /usr/share/applnk/Applications/ no /usr/share/applications/kde
[12:52] <Riddell> jpatrick: explaining the XDG menu system is another area that might need added to the packaging guide
[12:52] <jpatrick> mv debian/tmp/usr/share/applnk/Applications/ debiam/tmp/usr/share/applications/kde
[12:52] <jpatrick> Riddell: that is on my TODO
[01:02] <Riddell> Tonio_: we should look at including libdirfilterplugin on the file manager view
[01:02] <Riddell> and change the google search plugin back to html only
[01:03] <Tonio_> what does that libdir does ?
[01:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: I already searched for google
[01:03] <Tonio_> in fact I wanted to use google on kubutu-web profile and locate for the filemanagement one
[01:04] <Tonio_> but that doesn't look possible...........
[01:05] <Riddell> it lets you filter the current directory for whatever you search
[01:06] <Riddell> it's in Configure Toolbars -> toolbar: Filter Toolbar
[01:06] <Riddell> Filter Field
[01:07] <raphink> Riddell: may I remind you about ept ? :) (just so you don't forget)
[01:10] <Riddell> certainly can, although I'll probably put changes upstream rather than uploading patches
[01:10] <Riddell> since upstream is not really upstream
[01:15] <sebas> Riddell: Mewhahahahaha, fucking morons :-)
[01:16] <raphink> hmm ok
[01:16] <raphink> Riddell: well I could change things directly in the package
[01:16] <raphink> I made patches because I was not sure what upstream was
[01:16] <raphink> this is a Debian package, with a strange ubuntu verseion
[01:16] <raphink> mornfall claims to not work in Ubuntu yet adept is an ubuntu specific stuff
[01:16] <raphink> so it's not clear
[01:16] <raphink> what is upstream, what is not
[01:16] <raphink> and where
[01:16] <raphink> which is why I made patches 
[01:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: shoudn't we look at removing the google toolbar from the filemanagement profile ?
[01:18] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes but only if we decide to replace it with the dirfilter one
[01:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: That's exactly what I was thinking about ;)
[01:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay, let's go with this, I will send you a k-d-s toonight with this + file associations set correctly probably
[01:20] <Riddell> Tonio_: cool
[01:20] <Riddell> removing the google search bar need code though, need to poke tvo to do that
[01:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: we will make dapper the best kde desktop of all distros ! I promiss !
[01:21] <Riddell> :)
[01:21] <raphink> Riddell: what do you want me to do ? fix in the package directly or keep the patches, or send the patches upstream or what?
[01:22] <Riddell> raphink: I'm putting the changes into KDE's SVN
[01:22] <raphink> Riddell: ok :)
[01:23] <Riddell> raphink: did you do ther MP3 .desktop file?
[01:23] <raphink> Riddell: shall we keep the patches in the meanwhile? since we can't resynchronize with SVN cause it's UVF
[01:23] <raphink> Riddell: not yet, and it's not done in adept package, it's in app-install-data
[01:23] <Riddell> raphink: we can sync with SVN since adept is not, as you say, upstream
[01:23] <raphink> Riddell: so I have to work on app-install-data package to do that
[01:23] <raphink> Riddell: hmmm ic
[01:24] <Riddell> raphink: app-install-data is automatically generated
[01:24] <Riddell> also we don't want that MP3 one in gnome-app-install since they use gstreamer
[01:24] <Riddell> so adept is the best place for it
[01:24] <jpatrick> oh brilliant "mv: cannot move `debian/tmp/usr/share/applnk/Applications/kfocus.desktop' to `debiam/tmp/usr/share/applications/kde': No such file or directory"
[01:24] <raphink> Riddell: the package is automatically generated ??
[01:24] <Riddell> raphink: I believe so
[01:24] <Riddell> raphink: same as language-packs are
[01:24] <raphink> hmm
[01:24] <raphink> so you think the adept package should add the desktop itself ?
[01:25] <Riddell> yes
[01:25] <raphink> :s
[01:25] <raphink> I'm not at ease with that
[01:25] <Riddell> why?
[01:25] <raphink> that means we begin to have different sources for these desktop
[01:25] <raphink> and it might be harder to maintain this stuff later
[01:25] <raphink> although well dpkg -S /usr/share/app-install will tell it comes from adept
[01:25] <Riddell> I don't see why
[01:26] <Riddell> jpatrick: if it only makes 1 package it probably uses debian/kfocus no debian/tmp
[01:26] <Hobbsee> Riddell: did you get my message from earlier?
[01:27] <Riddell> Hobbsee: no
[01:27] <raphink> Riddell: I guess I just have to make a .desktop in Multimedia for that
[01:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: who his tvo ? need to ask him for a patch so that the search bar doesn't show on kubuntu filemanagement profile
[01:27] <jpatrick> everything else is going to tmp/
[01:27] <Hobbsee> [Tue Feb 28 2006]  [18:59:33]  <Hobbsee> Riddell: any chance we can move the meeting to be on thurs 16th, 20.00 UTC?  I cant make it on wednesdays 20 UTC as i'm driving at that point, then have no internet access.
[01:27] <Tonio_> if my understandaing is correct
[01:27] <Riddell> raphink: and play with Makefile.am to get it installed to the right place
[01:28] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: I think Riddell's busy then
[01:28] <Hobbsee> if you dont want to move it, that's fine - i just wont be able to make the meeting
[01:28] <Riddell> Hobbsee: so long as it doesn't clash with any other meeting that should be fine
[01:28] <Riddell> jpatrick: I am?
[01:28] <jpatrick> you said you'll be busy for two weeks or something
[01:28] <Riddell> /in/ two weeks, i.e. busy all next week
[01:28] <jpatrick> d'oh
[01:30] <raphink> Riddell: ok
[01:30] <raphink> I'll do that later :)
[01:30] <Riddell> Tonio_: tvo did the changes to the google search bar to make it always be on, even on file management mode
[01:31] <Hobbsee> hmm...9 second lag... did i miss anything when my connection dropped out?
[01:31] <jpatrick> nope
[01:32] <Hobbsee> ok, so the meeting didnt get changed?  fair enough
[01:32] <Hobbsee> stupid classes starting at 9am
[01:32] <jpatrick> just checking the calendar
[01:32] <Hobbsee> ok
[01:33] <Hobbsee> tues night would be ok, or whatever - just not wed nights...
[01:33] <Hobbsee> and i didnt know my timetable until recently lol
[01:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay, so he might know how to go back ;)
[01:35] <Tonio_> making a note on this
[01:36] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: 20th is aokay
[01:36] <jpatrick> no 16th
[01:37] <Hobbsee> yep, cool
[01:37] <jpatrick> who do I poke to change it?
[01:37] <Hobbsee> so that's my friday, yep
[01:37] <Hobbsee> not sure
[01:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: finally, I think we have to make a decision concerning tabs :) 
[01:38] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:38] <Hobbsee> sure?
[01:38] <Tonio_> I don't mind on the top or bottom, but I really think konversation, kopete and konsole have to have to tabs at the same place
[01:39] <Tonio_> for homegeity reasons
[01:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: most people think on the bottom is best because it is were the focus is.... I think that's a good argument :)
[01:40] <Tonio_> I'm ready to add that for toonight k-d-s too
[01:40] <Tonio_> I don't mind the palce at all, but a desktop has to have a global logic
[01:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: also, we should had a dep on kds or moodin
[01:43] <Tonio_> lots of people don't have kubuntu-desktop installed because they removed OOo for example, and then the ksplash crashes.........
[01:43] <Tonio_> will do that toonight also :)
[01:44] <Riddell> yes, ok
[01:45] <Riddell> (to both)
[02:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay, working ont his right now
[02:07] <freeflying> Riddell: ping
[02:07] <Riddell> freeflying: hi
[02:08] <freeflying> Riddell: I have work on skim . give you patch or upload to REVU ?
[02:09] <Riddell> freeflying: revu is good
[02:09] <freeflying> Riddell: I've you mail u a patch of scim-chewing , got it ?
[02:11] <Riddell> freeflying: oh yes, I'll look at that soon
[02:17] <LeeJunFan> dammit launchpad's search function must really suck. Almost every bug I submit eventually get's marked as a duplicate but when I searched it turned up nothing.
[02:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: k-d-s is over with all modification we were discussing about.... still need to contact tvo and that might be okay
[02:37] <Riddell> Tonio_: what do you think of the dirfilter thing?
[02:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: I like it
[02:38] <Riddell> yeah, me too
[02:38] <Tonio_> it is nice, although I may not use it a lot
[02:38] <Tonio_> but that a cool feature for users
[02:38] <Tonio_> as long as googlebar is removed hehe
[02:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: tvo@ubuntu.com works?
[02:39] <Riddell> don't think #so
[02:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: something I would like to see is kwallermanager.......
[02:39] <Tonio_> there is a problem with it
[02:39] <freeflying> X Error: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes) 8  what dose this happen 
[02:39] <Tonio_> secure config with password on default wallet is a pain to use
[02:39] <Riddell> Tonio_: I agree
[02:39] <Tonio_> and wallet without a password is very comfortable, but not clearly secured........
[02:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: I use the second option, as I'm not working in the Pentagon, but well........ there is certainly something to do with it
[02:40] <Riddell> the kwallet wizard is too scary, it should be simplified
[02:40] <Tonio_> even the way to config it is not clear, and might be very detailled in the kubuntu doc
[02:40] <Riddell> 1) don't use kwallet 2) no password  3) password
[02:40] <Tonio_> well, my idea is to use a default wallet preconfigured
[02:40] <Tonio_> without any password
[02:41] <Tonio_> and chmoded to 600
[02:41] <Riddell> actually 4) use user password  would be best
[02:41] <Tonio_> quite secured for a desktop and comfortable
[02:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: that requires coding :)
[02:41] <Riddell> yes, that's the trouble
[02:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: that means everytime you start kopete, you have to type your password
[02:41] <Riddell> but if we can preconfigure it without a password I think that's fine
[02:41] <Tonio_> that's not very nice to use
[02:42] <freeflying> Riddell: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2077
[02:42] <Tonio_> so maybe, default wallet without password for comfort, and then documentation on the way to get that more secured in the kubuntu documentation
[02:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: are you okay ?
[02:43] <Riddell> Tonio_: good for me
[02:43] <Tonio_> anyway the wallet is like gtk_qt_engine, needs copied in the profile, so let's hack startkde once again........
[02:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay, let's go
[02:43] <Riddell> freeflying: what's changed?
[02:43] <robotgeek> i use kwallet, and i asked it to "allow always". IIRC, i only have to enter my password once?
[02:43] <Riddell> robotgeek: whenever konqueror starts
[02:43] <freeflying> Riddell: make the skim.pc have a right includedir
[02:44] <Riddell> freeflying: ok, will do in a bit
[02:45] <freeflying> Riddell: then we can build some scim's engine with skim support
[02:46] <Riddell> freeflying: they don't at the moment?
[02:47] <freeflying> Riddell: ya ,because of them wrong includedir in skim.pc , i've comunicated this with upstream author
[02:47] <Tonio_> robotgeek: as soon as the wallet is opened by even a trusted application, you habe to type the password.......
[02:47] <freeflying> Riddell: he has not any clue on that , so I'd patch skim.pc.in
[02:47] <Tonio_> that's the reason most people put a blank password on it
[02:48] <Tonio_> best would be wallet with password and no password required for trusted applications, but this is not managed actually...........
[02:48] <robotgeek> Tonio_: hmm, i think the only apps which use my wallet are kmail/kopete
[02:49] <Tonio_> konq too, for web passwords
[02:49] <robotgeek> Tonio_: and i alredy have typed my kwallet once, kopete doesn't ask for password when launched
[02:49] <Tonio_> and kmail/kopete/konqueror are certainly the most used kde appliations so that needs to be configured in a comfortable way for the user
[02:50] <Tonio_> robotgeek: nothing forbids to add a password in postconfig
[02:50] <Tonio_> but I think no password by default is what feets the mass attempts
[02:50] <Tonio_> I can be wrong on that, but that's the global feeling I have while reading board or ngs
[02:50] <robotgeek> Tonio_: no, not that. i fail to see why kwallet is a problem (is it when a blank password is set?)
[02:51] <Tonio_> robotgeek: no, the opposite
[02:51] <Tonio_> having a password on the default wallet makes it a pain to use
[02:51] <robotgeek> Tonio_: really, cause kopete launched without asking me a password
[02:52] <Tonio_> robotgeek: certainly a wallet without password:)
[02:52] <robotgeek> Tonio_: no, i have a password
[02:52] <robotgeek> albeit, same as my user password
[02:52] <Tonio_> robotgeek: once the wallet is opened, you are not prompted for a password anymore
[02:53] <Tonio_> just while it gets opened first time in the application
[02:53] <robotgeek> Tonio_: yup, so what is a pain?
[02:53] <Tonio_> typing a password on each session
[02:53] <Tonio_> that's not comfortable to me
[02:54] <robotgeek> hmm, i rarely logout, so i enter a kwallet password _once_ a login
[02:54] <robotgeek> Tonio_: i used to use OS X before, so i am used to it :)
[02:54] <Tonio_> robotgeek: we're talking of average users.........
[02:55] <Tonio_> most people shutdown their computers 2 or 3 times a day
[02:55] <Tonio_> you have to think about "what would like my mother"
[02:55] <robotgeek> Tonio_: hmm, i never thought of that before :)
[02:55] <Tonio_> I don't care about geeks, they can change the config if they want :)
[02:56] <robotgeek> Tonio_: even if my nick says i am a geek, i am not a big one :)
[02:57] <Tonio_> robotgeek: the simple fact that your rarely disconnects makes you an extraterrestrial compared to the "normal" user :)
[02:57] <ubijtsa2> shutdown several times a day?
[02:57] <ubijtsa2> what on earth for?
[02:58] <Tonio_> ubijtsa2: they go on the net, then leave, then come back 2 hours later etc........
[02:58] <ubijtsa2> if you want to save power, you hibernate or suspend to RAM...
[02:58] <Tonio_> I don't say that's good
[02:58] <Tonio_> I'm saying this is the way people are using their computer
[02:58] <freeflying> Riddell: have u reviewed skim
[02:58] <ubijtsa2> Tonio_: for the hardware, it is extraordinarly bad to repeatedly start and shutdown
[02:59] <Tonio_> ubijtsa2: PLEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE, we're talking of your mother, mine, or so, do you think she even has an idea of what is hybernate or suspend to ram ????????????
[02:59] <ubijtsa2> Tonio_: I hear you about the users though.. :)
[02:59] <Tonio_> ubijtsa2: I'm not stupid, I know that, but I know most people don't care
[02:59] <ubijtsa2> Tonio_: uhm, once I explained to my parents about suspend, they were quite happy to use it
[03:00] <Tonio_> ubijtsa2: most people don't have a son having good knowledge to explain that
[03:00] <ubijtsa2> still bad for the hardware, but starts faster
[03:00] <Tonio_> imagin that you are about the 1% users that know what is a computer and how it works
[03:00] <Tonio_> there is not more than 1%
[03:00] <ubijtsa2> Tonio_: that may be the case, so it's our job to educate people
[03:01] <Tonio_> ubijtsa2: that's what linux users are saying for 10 years, and what is the result ???? 
[03:01] <Tonio_> 1% of linux users in the world, mostly geeks or neards
[03:01] <Tonio_> nerds
[03:01] <Tonio_> My thinking actually is that people don't want to learn, that's sad, but that's it
[03:01] <Tonio_> so we have to do with it
[03:01] <ubijtsa2> Tonio_: well, windoze now has hibernate and suspend2ram and people use it..
[03:02] <Tonio_> ubijtsa2: very few people are using it, I can tell you
[03:02] <ubijtsa2> hmm.. perhaps the people I know are not representative
[03:02] <Tonio_> I discovered in my compagny NOT ANY user was using this on their laptop........ 100 personns....
[03:03] <Tonio_> my friends are not representative too
[03:03] <Tonio_> but my "clients" at work are........ and that's terrific
[03:03] <ubijtsa2> or I just chose my friends well ;)
[03:03] <Tonio_> I lost the idea of educated people long time ago
[03:03] <Tonio_> if that was the solution, linux would be used by at least 30% of people
[03:03] <Tonio_> that's not the case
[03:04] <robotgeek> Tonio_: +1
[03:04] <Tonio_> and will probably never be, unless we change our thinking that "everyone can learn this"
[03:04] <ubijtsa2> yeah... perhaps the shutdown option should be better hidden..
[03:04] <Tonio_> they "can", but they "don't want'"
[03:04] <ubijtsa2> give users the option of suspend or restart
[03:04] <Tonio_> they want things to work alone, without the need to understand
[03:04] <robotgeek> ubijtsa2: linux is user-friendly, it's very selective about who it makes friends with :)
[03:05] <ubijtsa2> don't give them the option of shutdown without plenty of scary warnings
[03:05] <ubijtsa2> robotgeek: it makes friends with people that are worth having as friends :)
[03:07] <jpatrick> you don't have to shut down
[03:08] <ubijtsa2> jpatrick: check the scroll-back :) that's my argument as well
[03:08] <jpatrick> ;)
[03:08] <ubijtsa2> jpatrick: I suggest that 'shutdown' gets hidden. only give 'suspend' or 'restart' to users
[03:09] <jpatrick> I've never used suspend
[03:09] <ubijtsa2> maybe allow hibernate for when you need to change hardware
[03:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: ping ?
[03:21] <Riddell> Tonio_: hmm?
[03:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: during first boot on profile, is .kde create before of after startkde is launched ?
[03:22] <Tonio_> this is to know if I need to mkdir -p or not :)
[03:22] <Riddell> Tonio_: probably after
[03:23] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay.... in the doubt, I will maybe make the mkdir -p "in case of"
[03:23] <Tonio_> that might not create any problem anyway
[03:24] <jpatrick> anyone know a Fathi Boudra ?
[03:25] <Riddell> jpatrick: is ArmeBosse
[03:25] <jpatrick> he stole my ksplash-engine-moodin
[03:25] <Riddell> on #ubuntu-motu
[03:25] <Riddell> jpatrick: how so?
[03:25] <jpatrick> Riddell: http://mentors.debian.net/
[03:25] <jpatrick> 10th on list
[03:25] <Riddell> that's a good thing then, getting it into debian
[03:26] <jpatrick> which is what _I_ had in mind just now
[03:27] <jpatrick> I hope my changelogs there
[03:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: just sending you a new patch for startkde and k-d-s with the modifications we discussed
[03:44] <Tonio_> needs testing of course, but according to my tests, it works
[03:56] <Tonio_> need to find out the email address of that tvo ;)
[03:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: tobivollebregt@gmail.com--katapult/katapult--tvo--0.3--base-0 <- is it this guy ?
[03:59] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes
[03:59] <Tonio_> okay
[05:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: something that makes me crazzy sometimes with a default kubutu :
[05:29] <Tonio_> why on earth haven't we kcalc ???????? ^_^
[05:29] <Riddell> why should we?
[05:29] <Tonio_> we have computers we can make billions of operations, and we cannot make 456*7.2
[05:29] <Riddell> speedcrunch
[05:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: a calc is typically the kind of tools you don't use very often, but that is always required one day :)
[05:30] <Tonio_> spedcrunch can make operations ?
[05:30] <hunger> Riddell: Because speedcrunch can't do base conversions.
[05:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: to be honnest, when I launched speedcrunch the first time, I asked myself "is THAT supposed to be able to calculate ?" :)
[05:32] <Tonio_> why not simply replacing speedcrunch by kcalc ?
[05:32] <Tonio_> kcalc is simple, eye candy, can do the same and isn't very heavy :)
[05:32] <Riddell> kcalc is unusable compared to speedcrunch
[05:32] <Tonio_> hum
[05:32] <jpatrick> we're thinking of the average user
[05:32] <Riddell> however the new version of speedcrunch does have a keypad for those who insist on making it unusable
[05:33] <sebas> Riddell: for bla in list: ?
[05:33] <hunger> Riddell: Maybe... but at least kcalc does have base conversion:-)
[05:33] <Riddell> the trouble is that that new version uses qt4 and we won't have qt 4 in dapper main
[05:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm just thinking of my grandma ;)
[05:33] <sebas> Dunno, I don't use qptrlists, since python's native lists are pointers anyway.
[05:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: I must say I don't see a big difference
[05:34] <Tonio_> you can use the numpad with both
[05:35] <Tonio_> well, that was just a suggestion anyway :)
[05:35] <Tonio_> another one Riddell, now that keep is in main, couldn't we think about replacing konserve by keep ?
[05:35] <Tonio_> keep is more advanced, and developped especially for kubuntu ;)
[05:36] <jpatrick> by our friend JRe 
[05:37] <Riddell> sebas: magically that worked this time, I'm sure it didn't last time :)
[05:37] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes, konserve will be demoted
[05:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: cool ;)
[05:44] <jpatrick> Riddell: do you think we might be able to use Kerry?
[05:50] <Tonio_> Mez: ping ?
[05:51] <Riddell> jpatrick: go ahead and package it
[05:51] <jpatrick> Riddell: tried but it fails on build 'configure' script
[05:52] <jpatrick> building*
[05:53] <jpatrick> I did 'autoconf'
[05:53] <Riddell> what's the error?
[05:54] <jpatrick> http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/576885
[05:55] <jpatrick> or is it made another way?
[05:57] <Riddell> no idea at all
[05:58] <jpatrick> I'll take a configure script from another kapp
[06:02] <jpatrick> oh yes, it works
[06:06] <Tonio_> Riddell: has a decision been taken between beagle and kat ?
[06:06] <jpatrick> Tonio_: which is where Kerry comes in
[06:07] <Tonio_> jpatrick: this is why I asked
[06:07] <Tonio_> ;)
[06:07] <Tonio_> a few weeks ago, discussions where more over kat than beagle
[06:07] <Riddell> Tonio_: neither
[06:07] <Tonio_> Riddell: hehe, that clear :)
[06:07] <Tonio_> locater is your friend :)
[06:08] <Tonio_> enough to me at least
[06:08] <jpatrick> I'm going to poke upstream about bad tarballs
[06:08] <jpatrick> this thing's got more holes than Swiss cheese
[06:08] <Riddell> hello faked 
[06:09] <faked> hi all!
[06:12] <faked> what is the (k)ubuntu-way to build kernel-modules (fglrx, nvidia...)? module-assistant does not work correctly to me
[06:12] <faked> in dapper
[06:16] <jpatrick> must be something horribly wrong http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/576904
[06:18] <Riddell> faked: that's a user question, #kubuntu or #ubuntu (I also know nothing about building properietry linux modules)
[06:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: I really like that metabar theme for kubuntu
[06:19] <Tonio_> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=34127
[06:19] <Tonio_> much better than the actual one
[06:20] <Tonio_> may I include it ?
[06:20] <Tonio_> jpatrick, faked any opinion ?
[06:21] <faked> Tonio_: looks good
[06:21] <jpatrick> Tonio_: that's the one I use
[06:21] <Tonio_> jpatrick: there is no comparison possible with the actual one....
[06:22] <Tonio_> I may work a bit on themes etc toonight
[06:22] <Tonio_> ;)
[06:22] <jpatrick> :)
[06:24] <JRe> Tonio_: this theme is great :)
[06:25] <Tonio_> JRe: that's my feeling too, so unless Riddell doesn't appreciate, I might replace the actual one
[06:26] <Riddell> Tonio_: sure
[06:26] <Riddell> incinerator: going to edlug on thursday?
[06:28] <incinerator> Ridell: yes
[06:29] <incinerator> Riddell: yes
[06:29] <jpatrick> now this is more like it: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/576921
[06:30] <Riddell> incinerator: have I seen you there before?
[06:31] <Tonio_> jpatrick: what about porting this theme to amarok ?
[06:31] <Tonio_> the actual kubuntu amarok theme is not very, very nice
[06:39] <Tonio_> I don't understand why people who are contributing on kde-look do not ask us for integration........
[06:39] <Tonio_> we need those contributions ;)
[06:40] <jpatrick> I'm no artist
[06:41] <Tonio_> jpatrick: that wasn't an asking for contribution, juste your opinion ;)
[06:41] <Tonio_> I will do it
[06:43] <jpatrick> how about: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=33020
[06:44] <apokryphos> eek, no; too OS X ee
[06:44] <Tonio_> jpatrick: nice, but way too different from the reste of the distro
[06:45] <Tonio_> I personally like coherence on the desktop
[06:45] <Tonio_> then I'm changing everything ^^
[06:46] <Tonio_> apokryphos: same problem to me ;)
[06:46] <Tonio_> what I appreciate in the metabar style is that it takes the basis of the wallpaper and kdm theme
[06:46] <Tonio_> the amarok on the same way, and we will have something very "logic" in its theme
[06:47] <apokryphos> sounds good
[06:47] <jjesse_lunch> umm the ad that is on the top of that page is blocked by company filter as "adult material"
[06:47] <jpatrick> lol
[06:48] <apokryphos> hah
[06:48] <Tonio_> jjesse_lunch: on kde-apps ?
[06:49] <Tonio_> s/apps/look
[06:56] <jjesse_lunch> Tonio_: on this link:http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=30658
[06:57] <Tonio_> jjesse_lunch: astonishing ;)
[06:57] <jjesse_lunch> what is the add?
[06:58] <Tonio_> jjesse_lunch: dunno, I use adblock + konq + pierceve filters :)
[06:58] <Tonio_> never see any add while surfing
[06:58] <jjesse_lunch> grin, just installed the filter so we are trying it out
[06:59] <Tonio_> great news, we will (finally) get an official tarball to package openwengo ;)
[06:59] <Tonio_> nice
[06:59] <jpatrick> bit late
[06:59] <Tonio_> jpatrick: indeed, but well, it will possible to package it for dapper+1 and provide a backport
[07:00] <Tonio_> openwengo is really a great, great application for those who, like me, can't stand skype
[07:00] <jpatrick> and the same with Kerry
[07:00] <jpatrick> assuming it builds
[07:01] <Tonio_> I prefer windows........ can you imagin........
[07:01] <jpatrick> you do?
[07:02] <Tonio_> windows to skype ? definitly
[07:02] <Tonio_> skype is actually killing the standard SIP in the professionnal voip world, like autocoms etc......
[07:02] <Tonio_> replacing it by a crappy proprietary protocol
[07:02] <Tonio_> the way it works is a SHAME
[07:02] <Tonio_> they do mesh-networking
[07:03] <Tonio_> which is really an horrible way to proceed
[07:03] <Tonio_> to unsure good quality, skype is generally launched using strong priority over all other process (al list on windows)
[07:03] <Tonio_> this application is a shame, really......
[07:04] <Tonio_> jpatrick: and I assume it contains crappy backdoors in some way....
[07:04] <jpatrick> possibly
[07:04] <Tonio_> jpatrick: never forget that the guys who are doing have are the responsible for kazaa.......
[07:04] <jpatrick> Kazaa sucks
[07:05] <Tonio_> kazaa and skype is the same devel team, and the same network technology.......;
[07:05] <Tonio_> sucks
[07:06] <jpatrick> yep
[07:06] <kmon> hi
[07:06] <jpatrick> hola kmon 
[07:06] <Tonio_> but because people really seems to like what smells, skype is an incredible success while openwengo had problems to get known........
[07:06] <kmon> hola jpatrick
[07:07] <Tonio_> hi kmon
[07:07] <kmon> hi Tonio_
[07:07] <kmon> anyone here has tried playing with turbogears in dapper?
[07:08] <kmon> I'm having a strange problem and I don't know if it's a bug in turbogears or kubuntu dapper....
[07:08] <Tonio_> what is that turbogears ?
[07:09] <kmon> it's a rapid web development plataform for python
[07:09] <kmon> ala rails
[07:09] <jpatrick> isn't that Ruby?
[07:09] <kmon> nope
[07:09] <kmon> turbogears is python
[07:12] <kmon> how can I test if a file is utf8?
[07:15] <Tonio_> ...........; we need to find a way to hide those default konq profiles
[07:36] <nlindblad> evening
[07:36] <jpatrick> good evening nlindblad 
[07:37] <nlindblad> jpatrick: how's it going?
[07:37] <jpatrick> fine
[07:37] <nlindblad> jpatrick: gone to school this week?
[07:37] <jpatrick> no
[07:37] <jpatrick> maybe in two days time
[07:37] <nlindblad> how long since you did?
[07:38] <jpatrick> one month
[07:39] <nlindblad> you've missed alot then
[07:39] <jpatrick> not entirely
[07:39] <jpatrick> I asked my friends what work they had and did it
[07:45] <nlindblad> good
[07:46] <jpatrick> how did your patch come along?
[07:47] <kmon> I have a problem with kate. I'm editing a xml file and copying and pasting code appears to messed up the encoding of the file. How can I see if that's true?
[07:47] <nlindblad> well, the community reviewed it and I got a few ideas from some of the commentaries
[07:49] <jpatrick> cool
[08:39] <Tonio_> re
[08:46] <Tm_T> Tonio_: kmenu can be simple: http://www.tm-travolta.net/pics/temp/kmenu-1.png
[08:46] <Tm_T> I like
[08:47] <Riddell> Tm_T: multiple layers are not simple
[08:47] <Tm_T> Riddell: true
[08:47] <Tm_T> but I find that simpler than "default"
[08:48] <Tonio_> hum, not bad indeed, but I think I prefer the actual one
[08:48] <Tm_T> :)
[08:48] <Lure> I also think that more than two levels is too much
[08:48] <Tm_T> yup, that is for people who don't really use kmenu
[08:48] <Tm_T> like me
[08:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: did you upload latest k-d-s ? if not please don't, I have new modifications to apply ;)
[08:49] <jpatrick> ha
[08:49] <Tm_T> in that rare occasion that I do use, I don't need everything there (but debian menu is good)
[08:49] <Tonio_> I personally use quite exclusively katapult
[08:49] <Tm_T> I use normal run dialog + terminals
[08:49] <jpatrick> me too
[08:50] <Tm_T> katapult is too... I feel it's limited
[08:50] <Tonio_> the only problem with katapult is the delay to have new applications in
[08:50] <Tonio_> apart from that, it is as simple as a launcher can be, and powerfull
[08:50] <Lure> Tonio_, jpatrick: I still do not understand how to fix kubunto moodin image to match my LCD
[08:50] <Tonio_> Lure: kdm theme or ksplash image ?
[08:50] <jpatrick> anyone know where i can find katapult's svn/bzr?
[08:50] <Lure> is this supposed to be done by k-d-s
[08:51] <Riddell> Tonio_: no, not looked at it yet
[08:51] <Lure> ksplash
[08:51] <Riddell> jpatrick: I think it's in KDE now, ask Mez 
[08:51] <Tonio_> Riddell: good :) keep the kdebase patch, but forget the k-d-s package, I will build a new one toonight
[08:51] <jpatrick> ah, yes I remember now
[08:51] <jpatrick> playground
[08:51] <Tonio_> Lure: wxga screen ?
[08:51] <Tonio_> 16/9 ?
[08:51] <Lure> 1920x1200
[08:51] <jpatrick> bug
[08:51] <jpatrick> big*
[08:51] <Lure> I get 1280x1024
[08:51] <Mez> jpatrick, http://baz.thekatapult.org.uk/dev/
[08:51] <Tonio_> what is the ratio ?
[08:51] <Tonio_> ah.............;
[08:51] <Tonio_> indeed
[08:52] <Tonio_> Lure: isn't it stretched ?
[08:52] <Lure> Yep - I tried to change Theme.rc, but does not seem to have effect
[08:52] <Tonio_> on my laptop for example, I have 1280*800, and the image is stretched to fit the screen correctly
[08:52] <jpatrick> Mez: cheers
[08:53] <Lure> OK, I thought that Background-1920x1200.jpg should be used
[08:53] <Tonio_> doesn't that work for you ?
[08:53] <Lure> (it is there)
[08:53] <Tonio_> Lure: I'm gonna look at the package, but what is exactly your problem ?
[08:54] <Tonio_> cause you didn't described it, and didn't answer my questions........
[08:54] <Tonio_> Lure: I wanna help and correct the issue but I need informations
[08:54] <Lure> I thought that moodin would use non-streched image if available and not strech it
[08:55] <Tonio_> Lure: okay
[08:55] <Lure> See /usr/share/apps/ksplash/Themes/kubuntu
[08:55] <Tonio_> hum........; supposedly, this is how it should work in my dreams
[08:55] <Lure> there is Background-*.jpg for differe resolution
[08:55] <Tonio_> so in fact it stretches the 1280 1024 image and ignores the 1900*1200 one correct ?
[08:56] <Lure> I thought that Theme.rc influences that, but it does not help here
[08:56] <Lure> Yes.
[08:56] <jpatrick> why can't we just use an svg background
[08:56] <Tonio_> Lure: are you using a tool like 855resolution to set your resolution ?
[08:56] <Lure> I tried to manually change Background and BaseResolution settings, but it did not help
[08:56] <Riddell> moodin does weird things to the background sizes
[08:56] <Tonio_> I in fact have the same problem than you but I assumed it was due to this......
[08:57] <Lure> jpatrick: that would be nice, but not sure if moodin is able to display svg
[08:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes, but there are several backgrounds, I need to investigate why it doesn't use the one depending the resolution
[08:57] <Riddell> Tonio_: it does, but it shrinks it
[08:57] <Riddell> or something
[08:57] <Lure> Tonio_: what is 855resolution?
[08:57] <Riddell> that's why I made the 1024 one 1200 wide
[08:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: well there is a 1280*800 and it isn't used
[08:58] <Tonio_> instead I have the 1024*768 stretched
[08:58] <Tonio_> hum... need to investigate right now
[08:59] <Tonio_> Lure: I'm quite certain it uses Background.jpg by default for everyone
[09:00] <Riddell> I have a 1024 monitor and it displays the 1024 image but it needs to be 1200 wide to display correctly
[09:00] <Riddell> also it caches in ~/.kde/share/apps/ksplash/cache/
[09:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: hu ? wow strange
[09:00] <Riddell> which confused me for a while
[09:00] <Lure> Tonio_: yes, that is specified in Theme.rc, but it may be also hardcoded somewhere
[09:00] <Tonio_> Lure: possibly yes, I'm investigating ;)
[09:01] <jpatrick> TB about to start
[09:01] <Lure> I will try tpo remove cache and see if it is recreated
[09:02] <Tonio_> moodin bug maybe ?
[09:02] <jpatrick> file it - and I'll poke upstream
[09:03] <Riddell> yes, but I couldn't see anything wrong in the code
[09:03] <Tonio_> jpatrick: need to be sure first ;)
[09:03] <jpatrick> Tonio_: that's my job :)
[09:04] <Tonio_> 2.Rename your resolution specific background(i.e Background-1600x1200.jpg) to Background.jpg
[09:04] <Tonio_> argh.............
[09:04] <Tonio_> it has to be done manually
[09:04] <Lure> interesting - when a removed cache and change Theme.rc to 1920x1200 I got strange result
[09:04] <Tonio_> so by default, the only one used will be Background.jpg, that's it
[09:04] <Tonio_> damn........
[09:04] <Lure> image is still stretched, but I would say to 4000x2000 or so....
[09:05] <Lure> Dialog is far left (almost out of screen)
[09:05] <Tonio_> Lure: anyway, the problem is that it isn't able to dynamically select the good image according to what I see
[09:05] <jpatrick> Mez: it isn't getting any files...
[09:06] <Lure> Yes, my question was if we could do fix this in k-d-s or similar
[09:06] <Lure> similar as we fix font/DPI sizes
[09:06] <Tonio_> Lure: did you read ReadMe.txt ?
[09:06] <Lure> (if at all possible, of course ;-))
[09:06] <Tonio_> there are instructions for >1280 users
[09:07] <Lure> Yes, tried that, no effect (Add just seem to unpackage tar to dir)
[09:07] <jpatrick> "an integer is required"
[09:07] <Tonio_> Lure: well, via a postinst script maybe........
[09:07] <jpatrick> I could do that
[09:07] <Tonio_> but that will create another issue during the initial installation, because X isn't started then......
[09:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: it should be possible to create a postinst script that will read xorg config and set the goof parameters no ?
[09:09] <Riddell> Tonio_: err, huh?
[09:09] <Tonio_> as long as xorg is installed before k-d-s
[09:09] <Tonio_> the problem is that the splash requires manual config actually
[09:10] <Tonio_> so how to make it automatic ? that's the question :)
[09:10] <Riddell> goof parameters?
[09:10] <Tonio_> goof ? means ?
[09:10] <jpatrick> Tonio_: sounds tricky
[09:10] <Riddell> Tonio_: that's what I'm asking you
[09:10] <Tonio_> good parameters, sorry
[09:11] <jpatrick> SVG background if possible
[09:11] <Riddell> jpatrick: it's not (without coding it)
[09:12] <Tonio_> jpatrick: svg background will cause the same problem in fact
[09:12] <Tonio_> the only solution I see is a postconfig
[09:14] <Lure> interesting is that moodin is aware of resultion as cache dir is named 1920x1200
[09:14] <Lure> ;-)
[09:16] <LaserJock> Riddell: ping? ubuntu-meeting
[09:17] <Riddell> quite forgot
[09:17] <Tonio_> same for me ;)
[09:17] <Lure> Background.jpg in cache is actualy none of the ones on source dir
[09:18] <Lure> it is 2850x1406
[09:18] <Lure> And this some kind of matches what I get
[09:18] <Tonio_> hum..........
[09:18] <Tonio_> Lure: once again, did you read the readme ????????
[09:18] <Tonio_> ***Users of 1900x1200, 1600x1200 & 1440x900. 
[09:19] <Tonio_> 3.In Theme.rc change 'BaseResolution =' to your monitors resolution. (This will prevent auto-scaling of background and fonts)
[09:19] <Lure> Yes - I have renamed Background.jpg and change BaseResolution
[09:19] <Tonio_> did you do this ?
[09:19] <Tonio_> ok..........
[09:19] <Tonio_> sounds bad
[09:19] <Lure> I just do not do repackage and Add again, as this only unpackage
[09:20] <Lure> I just change in-place
[09:20] <Tonio_> Lure: so the background is supposedly the good onen base resolution is set
[09:20] <Lure> It seems to have some effect (if I remove cache first), but not the expected one... :-(
[09:20] <Tonio_> can you remove the cache entries and have a look at it ?
[09:21] <Lure> I do rm -rf for whole Modin/kubuntu cache each try
[09:22] <Lure> I will retry repackage + re-add just to be sure (I did that 2 days ago with no effect)
[09:23] <Tonio_> lure okay
[09:26] <Riddell> well done LaserJock 
[09:27] <LaserJock> thanks, I was really nervous
[09:29] <Tonio_> LaserJock: ;)
[09:34] <Lure> Tonio_: no change - difference is that Added theme is installed in /.kde/share/apps/ksplash/Themes
[09:35] <Lure> and not on global /usr/share/apps/ksplash/Themes
[09:35] <Tonio_> that's normal :)
[09:35] <Tonio_> but you still experience the same bug ?
[09:36] <Lure> yes
[09:36] <Tonio_> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=29426
[09:36] <Lure> maybe it is an issue of overwrite (re-add), however
[09:36] <Tonio_> look at the comments........ you are not the only one unfortunatelly
[09:38] <jpatrick> upstream bug
[09:38] <Tonio_> well I can see a solution : stop using moodin and provide a standard but adapted from this theme splash
[09:38] <Lure> true...
[09:38] <Tonio_> jpatrick: more than that
[09:38] <Tonio_> all moodin themes refer to a specific resolution
[09:38] <Tonio_> the engine works like that
[09:39] <Tonio_> so it cannot be used by default because we don't have an idea of the screen resol
[09:39] <Riddell> _Sime: is editing DPI in the next displayconfig?
[09:39] <jpatrick> Tonio_: we spent ages getting it in - can't pull out now
[09:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: I looked about everywhere, I think we will not find any solution, because moodin themes generally require configuration reguarding to the resolution
[09:40] <Tonio_> jpatrick: I understand, but it is not adapted to a default usage, what could we do ?
[09:40] <Tonio_> there is no emergency, we can search a bit
[09:41] <Lure> I think it is not end of world if we leave it as is until upstream fix
[09:41] <Tonio_> jpatrick: look on kde-look, you'll see all moodin themes have those settings :
[09:41] <Lure> It is just not standard kubuntu polish ;-
[09:41] <jpatrick> I know
[09:41] <Lure> ;=
[09:41] <Tonio_> baseresolution
[09:42] <Tonio_> means that you have to set parameters depending your resolution
[09:42] <Tonio_> okay, there is a bug on big resolutions, and that could be resolved by patching moodin
[09:42] <Tonio_> but what about stretched images ?
[09:43] <Riddell> Tonio_: how evil
[09:43] <Tonio_> I don't see an easy way to autoconfig this, except a very dirty kind of hack in startkde that would copy the theme in your profile and autoset resolutions
[09:44] <Riddell> it can't be hard to find the screen width in the code though
[09:44] <Riddell> I wonder why it reads it from the file
[09:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: I will investigate, but I'm quite certain we will have to come back to the old engine and adapt the theme (which can we done quite easilly)
[09:44] <Lure> Tonio_: I am also concerned that it is not just image problem
[09:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: don't know
[09:44] <jpatrick> without the pretty icons and effect
[09:45] <Lure> there are many other numbers (icon positions) that would potentially also need to change
[09:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: I agree that moodin should be able to detect the resol, and select the good image
[09:45] <Lure> see Theme.rc
[09:45] <Tonio_> Lure: true
[09:45] <Tonio_> there are lots of comments on that point too
[09:45] <Tonio_> in fact in it's actual state, moodin requires a full manuall config for themes........
[09:46] <Tonio_> so unless there is in a few days a new version with lots of improvements on that point, we may not be able to use it....... unless we find a dev to patch all moodin source ;)
[09:46] <Lure> I would personally prefer simplier splash if it always looks good - I like the polish
[09:46] <Tonio_> Lure: well the standard engine doesn't require background
[09:47] <Tonio_> so there are no pbs on that point
[09:47] <Tonio_> we loose effects, but that will work on ANY machine
[09:47] <Tonio_> jpatrick: I understand how it can affect you, but can we reasonnably release kubuntu with such a problem ?
[09:48] <Lure> BTW - which one is used in Breezy?
[09:48] <Tonio_> best would maybe be to keep moodin in main, poke upstream for improvements, and think about dapper+1 :)
[09:48] <Tonio_> Lure: the engine ?
[09:49] <jpatrick> Riddell: cache.cpp, scaler.cpp, thememoodin.cpp...
[09:49] <Lure> engine and name - I do not recall how it looks like (I am more on Dapper these days -;-)
[09:49] <Tonio_> lure wait
[09:49] <jpatrick> Lure: there was no engine
[09:50] <Tonio_> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=29410
[09:50] <Tonio_> jpatrick: yes there is one, but the default
[09:50] <Lure> jpatrick: but it was still set in Desktop->Splash Screen?
[09:50] <Tonio_> no effects, but absolutly no resolution dependancy, that's it's advantage........
[09:50] <Lure> Tonio_: that was it!
[09:51] <Tonio_> Engine = Default
[09:51] <Tonio_> that's it........
[09:51] <Tonio_> limited, but this engine doesn't depend on coords and resol
[09:52] <Lure> "Default" splash is KDE 3.5 default on my system
[09:52] <Tonio_> well, I will not touch anything for the moment and will investigate
[09:52] <Tonio_> jpatrick: you too ?
[09:53] <jpatrick> what?
[09:53] <Tonio_> we take a few days to investigate and then decide
[09:53] <Lure> Do you want I open a bug?
[09:54] <Tonio_> but more than the bug, it is the dependance to the resolution parameters that are making me unsure at the moment.......
[09:54] <jpatrick> yes, something I poke upstrean at
[09:54] <Tonio_> changing this is not a very easy trick
[09:54] <Tonio_> because it means that you release has many background as there are resolutions.........
[09:54] <Tonio_> the default engine uses the kde wallpaper directly, which makie a hudge difference
[09:54] <Lure> Tonio_: I would agree - probably lot's of effort for small improvement
[09:55] <Tonio_> Lure: well, the adapted theme wouldn't be that different, but effects missing
[09:55] <Tonio_> we have to reasonnable I think.......
[09:55] <Tonio_> but I'll wait a bit in case we find a "magic solution"
[09:56] <Tonio_> at the moment I have others themes to manage :)
[09:56] <Tonio_> buttons can potentially be placed where they shouldn't too, it is a very common problem apparently
[09:57] <Tonio_> everything is depending the resolution, even little images cause they have coords......
[09:58] <Tonio_> jpatrick: may you ask to upstream is there is a way to avoid the resolution ?
[09:58] <jpatrick> sure
[09:58] <Tonio_> ideal would be no background in fact
[09:58] <Tonio_> can moodin work without background
[09:58] <jpatrick> No
[09:59] <Tonio_> or with background and another big image on it, to prevent from stretching
[09:59] <jpatrick> it's in the code
[09:59] <Tonio_> stretching the background isn't a problem
[09:59] <Tonio_> stretching the white square on the middle of the screen is one
[09:59] <Tonio_> can that be another image ?
[09:59] <robotgeek> some gradient maybe?
[10:00] <jpatrick> if (bgImage.isEmpty())
[10:00] <jpatrick> {
[10:00] <jpatrick> KMessageBox::error(this, i18n("No background. Try to put a Background.jpg in theme folder"));
[10:00] <jpatrick> }
[10:01] <Tonio_> jpatrick: in fact background can be stretched, taht not a big issue
[10:01] <Tonio_> the problem is that all themes I have seen have only background + little images
[10:01] <Tonio_> can the white square be another image ?
[10:01] <Tonio_> detached from the background ?
[10:02] <jpatrick> white_square == Background.jgp ?
[10:02] <Tonio_> jpatrick: no
[10:02] <Tonio_> ho you mean actually ?
[10:02] <Tonio_> yes, actually, all the graphic part is background.jpg
[10:03] <Tonio_> only little images (printer etc.....) are detached
[10:03] <Tonio_> the problem is that stretching the background means stretching the square
[10:03] <Tonio_> and getting potential problem with printer not at the good place etc........
[10:04] <Tonio_> all moodin themes I have seen only have a background and that's all.......
[10:05] <jpatrick> if (bgImage.isEmpty()) { return 0; }
[10:08] <Tonio_> jpatrick: okay, but how do you display the white square ?
[10:08] <Tonio_> I don't see any parameter for another image
[10:09] <Tonio_> and how do we manage the little image position without coords
[10:09] <Tonio_> hum......... sounds complicated to manage, really
[10:09] <Lure> Tonio_: whitesquare is part of Background.jpg.
[10:09] <Tonio_> Lure: yes, I know, that's the problem
[10:10] <Tonio_> stretching the bg=stretching the square
[10:10] <Tonio_> unless we provide 50 backgrounds and a hack to autoselect the good one depending the resolution
[10:10] <Lure> more than I think, it looks like streching may be a workaround for icon placement
[10:10] <Tonio_> dirty method, the square should be independant from the background
[10:11] <Lure> Icons are for sure on right location on my streched background image
[10:11] <Tonio_> Lure: yes, logic, cause the placement is depending coords
[10:11] <Tonio_> but there are several problems if you look on the kde-look page
[10:11] <Tonio_> people had to change the coords for the images to feet nicely
[10:14] <Tonio_> I should have looked at this before integrating it......... my fault
[10:18] <Tonio_> grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, I can't integrate the metabar theme too...........
[10:18] <Tonio_> bad day
[10:18] <Tonio_> jpatrick: I won't add that too......
[10:19] <Tonio_> tables are fixed width, so depending the font config or the langage, there might be text outside the table......
[10:23] <_Sime> can people here tell me if "sudo xresprobe dummy" outputs reasonable resolutions that match thier hardware?
[10:23] <_Sime> I'm doing some work on guidance/displayconfig.
[10:24] <robotgeek> _Sime: +1
[10:25] <Riddell> wow, what did that just do?
[10:25] <Lure> _Sime: not for me - just empty fields (id:, res:, freq:) and disptype:lcd/lvds
[10:25] <Riddell> >sudo xresprobe dummy
[10:25] <Riddell> Password:
[10:25] <Riddell> id:
[10:25] <Riddell> res:
[10:25] <Riddell> freq:
[10:25] <Riddell> disptype: lcd/lvds
[10:25] <Lure> It also switches to text screen temporary - very strange
[10:25] <robotgeek> _Sime: however, i remember running dpkg-reconfiure pretty recently
[10:25] <_Sime> Lure: that is wierd.
[10:25] <_Sime> have you guys got laptops or ???
[10:25] <Lure> I am using fglrx driver
[10:25] <Riddell> _Sime: yes
[10:26] <Lure> Yep: HP Compaq nw8240
[10:26] <Riddell> _Sime: all blank fields on my desktop machine
[10:26] <_Sime> what is the native resolution?
[10:26] <robotgeek> http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/577310
[10:26] <Lure> 1920x1200
[10:26] <_Sime> some laptops have weird ass resolutions these days.
[10:26] <robotgeek> _Sime: mine is a laptop, but connected to external display
[10:27] <_Sime> robotgeek: 1280x1024 is your laptop screen?
[10:27] <Lure> _Sime: high-res display is really cool
[10:28] <robotgeek> _Sime: no, it is connected to an external monitor
[10:28] <robotgeek> the laptop screen is "disabled"
[10:28] <_Sime> robotgeek: what is your laptop's normal / panel res?
[10:29] <robotgeek> _Sime: lemme hunt :)
[10:30] <robotgeek> _Sime: looks like 1024 x 768
[10:30] <Lure> _Sime: why do you not use xdpyinfo and dimensions for getting resolution?
[10:31] <_Sime> Lure: xdpyinfo tells you the current res, not the native res of the monitor.
[10:31] <Lure> true
[10:31] <_Sime> there is a bug report on launchpad, and someone says that they have a native res of 1280x1040(!)
[10:32] <allee> Riddel, Tonio_, raphink, jpatrick et al: Please have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AchimBohnet and let me know anything wrong/missing or if there should be more.  If it's okay/enough I dare to apply for membership at next CC in a week.
[10:33] <Lure> _Sime: fglrx is able to autodetect display resolution: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/577321
[10:35] <Riddell> allee: looks good
[10:35] <Lure> _Sime: BTW - do you need more info for bug 32915 (Display applet _getGfxCard error)
[10:35] <Tonio_> allee: nice ;)
[10:35] <Riddell> allee: I'll definatly support you
[10:36] <Tonio_> allee: same ;)
[10:36] <allee> Riddell, Tonio_ : thx for checking.  Will you be around next CC?
[10:36] <Tonio_> allee: sure !
[10:36] <Lure> allee: I would support you, but not member (you made me understand DPI) ;-)
[10:37] <jpatrick> allee: looks good and sorry I can't go (damn school)
[10:37] <allee> Lure: this makes me proud
[10:37] <_Sime> Lure: I've fixed a lot of bugs lately. Just give in another test once the update is out (later this week). then we'll have another look.
[10:37] <robotgeek> jpatrick: you can always leave testimonials :)
[10:38] <jpatrick> I'm doing that
[10:38] <Tonio_> allee: I have to ask for uvh exception, will do toonight
[10:38] <Lure> _Sime: will do - thanks
[10:38] <allee> jpatrick: np.  I hope 'damn' work will _require_ my attention during meeting :(
[10:40] <jpatrick> if I could you have my support
[10:42] <Riddell> allee: I'll be in london with sabdfl, so I should think so
[10:42] <jpatrick> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AchimBohnetTestimonials ?
[10:43] <robotgeek> subpage would be better, IMO
[10:43] <jpatrick>  /Testimonials
[10:43] <robotgeek> +1
[10:44] <allee> jpatrick: search wiki work testimonials find Testimonials/*.  Checking their contents
[10:45] <jpatrick> something about MP3s...
[10:45] <allee> jpatrick: not Testimonials is not a good place: Testimonials are people saying they really really like Ubuntu and it has changed their life!
[10:47] <jpatrick> I can't find any
[10:49] <allee> looks like 'subpage' like robotgeek is best
[10:52] <jpatrick> now what to write....
[10:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: I would like to patch kdebase in order not to install all those generic profiles
[10:57] <Tonio_> "kubuntu web" and "kubuntu file manager" are probably enought
[10:57] <Tonio_> cause actually you get a big list of profiles to choose by default when loading or saving one
[10:58] <Tonio_> is that okay for you ?
[10:59] <Riddell> Tonio_: I would worry that people who use them would miss them
[11:00] <Tonio_> hum......indeed... the problem is that the big majority isn't
[11:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: why not splitting in another package ?
[11:00] <Tonio_> konqueror-default-profiles
[11:00] <Tonio_> ?
[11:01] <Tonio_> I got a few complains about that
[11:01] <Tonio_> people asking "why are there kubuntu profiles diplucating generic ones
[11:01] <Tonio_> duplicating
[11:02] <Tonio_> people who want them can find the package, and we can document this in the kubuntu documentation, no ?
[11:03] <robotgeek> Tonio_: i can document konqueror --profiles if you need it
[11:03] <Tonio_> robotgeek: well the package is that if accepted, we first need the modify kdebase package ;)
[11:04] <jpatrick> allee: who should I ask to get kmplayer in Debian?
[11:04] <robotgeek> Tonio_: i already have Settings -> Load View Profile?
[11:04] <Tonio_> robotgeek: I'm talking about not having those profiles installed by default in fact, but sepe
[11:04] <Tonio_> aseparate in another package
[11:05] <robotgeek> Tonio_: it's pretty hidden away even now, why bother?
[11:05] <Tonio_> robotgeek: hum...... because I'm a stupid perfectionnist ;)
[11:06] <robotgeek> Tonio_: :)
[11:06] <allee> jpatrick: If your commit/maintain kmplayers/debian dir in alioth pkg-kde/kde-extra repo.  We can ask Mark Purcell.  If not ...
[11:06] <robotgeek> just keep me in the loop, i will document it Tonio_ 
[11:06] <jpatrick> allee: how do I go about that.....
[11:06] <allee> debian-mentor will the right address.  You can try #debian-qt-kde too, but they are pretty busy ...
[11:07] <Lure> I agree with Tonio_: simplicity is better and having more here is just questionable
[11:07] <jpatrick> I'm registered at debian-mentor
[11:07] <Tonio_> Riddell: what embarrased me is that there is no way to remove them once for all......
[11:07] <allee> jpatrick: well, upload to debian, mean commitment to manage it: handling/fixing bugs in debian BTS, uploadin new version
[11:07] <Tonio_> I personnaly use many profiles, like ftp etc... and it is a pain having them with those 6 default......
[11:08] <jpatrick> allee: I know
[11:08] <Tonio_> allee, jpatrick, any opinion ?
[11:08] <robotgeek> i use only one, so +1 Tonio_ 
[11:08] <jpatrick> Tonio_: remove them? install rm -f profiles/*
[11:08] <Tonio_> jpatrick: and update kde and have them back ;)
[11:09] <Lure> Tonio_: maybe you should package your personal profiles for others to use... ;-)
[11:09] <Tonio_> Lure: the problem is that those defaut one will still set in the profiles list
[11:09] <Tonio_> and I haven't been able to find a way to hide them
[11:09] <robotgeek> Tonio_: werent they hidden in breezy?
[11:10] <Lure> true - you cannot delete them...
[11:10] <Tonio_> robotgeek: they are
[11:10] <Tonio_> I mean, "kde developpers", is that of any use ?
[11:10] <robotgeek> why can't we have it the way it was in breezy?
[11:10] <Tonio_> of "simple browser" and "tabbed browser", what for when you have "kubuntu web"
[11:10] <Tonio_> there is no reason to have them, really
[11:11] <jpatrick> mv default.profile .default.profile ?
[11:11] <danimo> who is in charge for thg+
[11:11] <Tonio_> jpatrick: I know how to remove them
[11:11] <danimo> who is in charge for the display config stuff
[11:11] <danimo> (python, called from system settings)
[11:11] <Tonio_> I'm searching a way to have them removed eventually by default
[11:11] <jpatrick> _Sime: ?
[11:11] <Lure> danimo: _Sime?
[11:12] <jpatrick> sebas: ^^
[11:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: what about profiles in a separate package + doc ?
[11:12] <Tonio_> 3 web profiles in the list are simply stupid, really
[11:13] <danimo> _Sime: ping?
[11:13] <Riddell> Tonio_: why?
[11:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: well, if we try to have a logic and optimised desktop, I don't see the need of three web profiles who duplicates themselves......
[11:14] <Tonio_> "kde developpment"..... who will use that ?
[11:15] <Tonio_> I mean, splitting is very easy to do, so why not ? ^^
[11:15] <Lure> I think these profiles are abused for KDE specific bookmarks here...
[11:15] <jpatrick> allee: can I register at alioth?
[11:15] <Tonio_> each time I want to load a profile I have to search in the list because of those unusefull ones
[11:16] <Tonio_> allee: I know you are using profiles too, so what is your feeling ?
[11:16] <allee> Tonio_: simple browser and tabbed browing are not needed.  MC profile. I don't know. _When_ it supports same shortcut as mc, it maybe useful.  'kde development' can go to kdelibs-dev or dropped
[11:16] <Riddell> Tonio_: I don't see the need for konqueror profiles at all :)
[11:16] <Riddell> but people demand them
[11:16] <robotgeek> Riddell: i've answered questions for people who read Konqueror's handbook asking for the "mc" profile
[11:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: they demand the functionnality, yes
[11:17] <Tonio_> that's why I insisted to have it back
[11:17] <Tonio_> but I'm not sure they are using the default one
[11:17] <Tonio_> generally, they do personnal with sets of pages loaded by default
[11:18] <Tonio_> allee: so your opinion is that on the default desktop, perhaps not having them would be cleaner ?
[11:18] <robotgeek> err, tried to
[11:20] <Lure> Tonio_: can we move them from global to user (in order to be able to remove manually)
[11:20] <Tonio_> Lure: nope
[11:21] <Lure> :-(
[11:21] <Tonio_> they are installed in /usr/shre by default and the ones sitting in your profile are copies of those ones
[11:21] <Tonio_> there is no way to hide them as far as I know, so that's why to me, the bast solution would be a separate package :)
[11:21] <Tonio_> for the "rare" people wanting them
[11:24] <allee> Tonio_: I doubt that they are useful.
[11:25] <allee> Tonio_: so removing  simple browser and tabbed browing is no loss
[11:25] <Tonio_> allee: true, and according to me kde developpers, don't need a profile ;)
[11:26] <Tonio_> maybe mc can be of any use
[11:26] <Tonio_> but globally, they will certainly disturb users more than be of any help.........
[11:28] <allee> Tonio_: well, KDE development can be a nice start.  but for new developers -> kdelibs-dev?  But it should be more visible for new developers.  So with kdelibs-dev installed,  maybe on about: page.
[11:28] <Tonio_> hum, why not indeed......
[11:28] <Tonio_> allee: anyway, if I was a developper wanted to contribute to kde, I would go kde.org :)
[11:29] <allee> Hmm, maybe a 'helping Kubuntu' profile on homepage would be better ;)  Link to kubuntu homepage, kubuntu wiki, lauchpad bug search, forum(?) ...
[11:30] <Tonio_> allee: why not :)
[11:30] <robotgeek> allee: that would probably also help the OEM's
[11:30] <robotgeek> they can create their own profile :)
[11:31] <Tonio_> allee: I may just ask to the next meeting
[11:31] <Tonio_> event if not possible, juste to get the global feeling
[11:32] <Lure> allee: why not put this to default home page (About Kubuntu) - it will also work with Firefox
[11:32] <Lure> file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html
[11:34] <allee> Tonio_: ah, that the defaults, never saw it, yet.   Hmm, IMHO this page should point to usefull Kubuntu resources, not explain kubuntu (should be move to 'more about kubuntu' page ;)
[11:35] <danimo> Riddell: can you add a fix to displayconfig?
[11:36] <danimo> Riddell: not sure if it's correct, but otherwise it won't come up here
[11:36] <Tonio_> alle good point
[11:38] <Riddell> danimo: sure
[11:38] <Riddell> _Sime: ^^
[11:39] <Riddell> 22:38 < Riddell> danimo: sure
[11:40] <_danimo> Riddell: cool, in site-packages, go to displayconfigabstraction.py (or their respective source)
[11:41] <_danimo> Riddell: in like 262, text can appearantly be null, hence the correct line is
[11:41] <_danimo> if pic_device.text and ....
[11:41] <_danimo> pci_device even
[11:42] <allee> Tonio_: hmmm, about homepage.  I usually google, or go to a page and fire a search.  If this is not uncommon, so maybe a homepage with just ...
[11:43] <Tonio_> allee: well I don't know I must say....
[11:44] <Tonio_> no opinion on that point
[11:44] <allee> google web: with search field,   next a way to search kubuntu wiki,  and at top or buttom, a row of links to homepage, wiki, forum, report/search bugs, ...
[11:45] <allee> afair firefox has only google on it's homepage.  An additional bit more kubuntu specific search feature + links seem nevertheless okay :)
[11:45] <Tonio_> allee: interesting ;)
[11:45] <Tonio_> keep that for the meeting ;)
[11:46] <_Sime> _danimo: send me an email (simon@simonzone.com). I'm going to bed now. :)
[11:46] <_danimo> _Sime: ok
[11:46] <allee> Tonio_: This is just what _I_ would find a useful homepage.  maybe other can imagine their favorite homepage too ...
[11:46] <freeflying-ibook> morning all
[11:47] <Tonio_> allee: anyway, I like the idea ;)
[11:47] <Riddell> danimo: committed to svn
[11:47] <Tonio_> freeflying-ibook: good evening ;)
[11:48] <freeflying-ibook> Riddell: is skim ok ?
[11:48] <allee> Tonio_: as a meeting topic we would need some more input.  So people have time to think about it.  
[11:48] <Tonio_> allee: true
[11:48] <Riddell> freeflying-ibook: just looking at it now
[11:49] <Tonio_> spleeping time ;)
[11:49] <Tonio_> nite all
[11:50] <allee> nite Tonio_ 
[11:50] <freeflying-ibook> night Tonio_
[11:50] <Tonio_> allee: I missed the uvf exception, sorry !!!!!!!!!!
[11:50] <Lure> Tonio_: bye - I will also go now
[11:50] <Tonio_> allee: will do tomorrow morning
[11:50] <allee> nite Lure 
[11:50] <allee> Tonio_: :)
[11:59] <Riddell> freeflying-ibook: doesn't skim need im-switch?
[12:00] <freeflying-ibook> Riddell: pitti add im-switch to language-pack-zh/ko/ja
[12:00] <_danimo> _Sime: done
[12:01] <Riddell> freeflying-ibook: but why would you want to have skim without im-switch?
[12:02] <freeflying-ibook> Riddell:skim will be installed defaulty ,and some language package depend on im-switch , so I think it needn't depend on it 
[12:04] <Riddell> freeflying-ibook: why does 10_correct_includedir_in_skim-pc.dpatch start with "10"?