sivangis anyone using emacs21 under Xgl? ;-)12:04
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Burgworksivang, that is an ambomination12:09
=== sivang dicts for the word
tsenghe spelled it wrong so12:10
Burgworktseng, shhh! that was part of my "plan"12:10
tsengBurgwork: ah :D12:10
sivang  1. The feeling of extreme disgust and hatred; abhorrence;12:11
sivang        detestation; loathing; as, he holds tobacco in12:11
sivang        abomination.12:11
sivang        [1913 Webster] 12:11
tsengbut used as a noun12:11
=== sivang waits for emacs21 to compile with debug symbols
Burgworksivang, running a dated piece of 70s technology on modern bling12:11
sivanghehe, indeed. What can I do if I got used to some of its niceities? ;-)12:12
sivang(./me thinks if there are any other py editor that do not suck)12:12
trappistsivang: I heard it fails in Xgl because it can't find rgb.txt, because the Xgl package was compiled with the wrong path to it12:12
trappisterr because it can't find 'black' because no rgb.txt12:13
sivangtrappist: do you happen to know the right path? My strace shows that it looks for it where I Put it, /etc/X11/rgb.txt12:13
trappistsivang: I just overheard this in #ubuntu-xgl or somewhere.  I have no first-hand knowledge of the problem.12:14
sivangtrappist: okay, thanks anyway12:15
=== sivang fantasizes of his green emacs21 window in wobbely mode.
sivangBurgwork: I guess I'm a 70's hippie, after all :p12:16
trappistI can't talk compiz into using mesa's libGL, so I'm fantasizing about anything in wobbly mode.12:16
Burgworkto be honest, the most interesting thing I am looking forward to is expose-style window shrinking12:17
trappistit's all about the live thumbnail previews.12:18
sivangBurgwork: F12 does that for me12:24
sivangBurgwork: it's way cool, I agree. and very productive12:24
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Burgworksivang, vista has a cool feature on window switching12:25
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tsengBurgwork: xgl has thumbnail preview on window switching too12:25
tsengif you turn it on12:25
Burgworktseng, cool, haven't played with xgl yet12:25
Seveasxgl is a major cpu hog12:25
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dholbachhey haggai12:32
ploumcassidy: http://ploum.frimouvy.org/?gallery/life-of-ploum/fosdem-2006/img00029  : some ubunteros @ FOSDEM sunday evening 12:33
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cassidyploum: thx12:34
cassidyahh i'm half hidden :p12:35
ploumI told you...12:35
sivangBurgwork: I hope we can give a good competition with Xgl to vista..12:38
ploumTreenaks: ping ?12:41
ploumcassidy: it can be cool if we can give names to people on this picture. I can only say jdub, vuntz, ploum, kikidonk and cassidy 12:42
cassidyploum: the other guy with me is not involved in Ubuntu. And my 2 neighbors at the table either12:43
ploumoh... I tought12:44
ploumNext year, we will do an Ubuntu Room !12:44
hungerploum: That would be great... then I might had actually found you guys.12:45
cassidyit means that we have to choice between GNOME and Ubuntu devroom. Big dilemma :)12:45
ploumcassidy: it would be indeed a big dilemna. But there are many ubuntu things to discuss12:45
ploumhunger: indeed, it was difficult to find Ubuntu fans12:46
ploumNo stand, no room12:46
ploumUbuntu-be will solve this problem next year :-)12:46
cassidyGNOME/Ubuntu entre les deux mon coeur balance ;)12:46
hungerploum: A stand is not really important IMHO... the people coming to fosdem know about ubuntu anyway.12:47
cassidyploum: ping me when the mailing list will be installed12:47
ploumhunger: I agree. That's why I think a room it's better12:47
hungerploum: And the stands are in the hallways which are always so crowded that it is hard to stop and talk anyway.12:47
cassidyhunger: i agree. Discuss about specific ubuntu discuss and meet ubuntu fans is more interesting12:47
=== hunger agrees.
cassidy(and drink beers ;)12:48
ploumcassidy: I will have to annoy jdub12:48
=== hunger never understood the debian and gentoo stands... they got rooms to sit behind their laptops in.
cassidylet him time to go back to his home :)12:48
ploumAnyone is aware of an easy way to convert a video to Theora/ogg ?12:49
ploumPitivi doesn't work as well as the demo at FOSDEM !12:49
hungerploum: What a surprise... ;-)12:50
hungerploum: I am sure apparmour won't work as well either;-)12:50
CarlFKploum: http://transcoding.org - easy once you have done it ;)12:50
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subterrifici need help figuring out what component to report a bug against12:51
ploumCarlFK: isn't transcode a CLI tool ? (I'm just too lazy to read a man page like the mencoder one now)12:52
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ploumhunger: I've heard about apparmour but I was not at the talk. Was it interesting ? what was the demo ?12:52
CarlFKploum: yes, but there are some GUIs for it12:52
ploumsubterrific: what's the bug ?12:52
=== hunger found it very interessting.
dholbachgood night everybody12:52
ploumgood night12:53
hungerIt is not as powerful as selinux, but it is way easier.12:53
subterrifici tried doing a flight-4 install and it failed because update-initramfs -u was saying "Kernel too old, requires 2.6.12 or greater". the problem was that the /boot partition i selected had old kernels on it from an old breezy install12:53
hungerploum: The demo was writing a profile for a php-app in apache in less then 3 min.12:53
subterrificis that an initramfs-tools bug or debian-installer or what?12:54
hungerploum: They got perl scripts to help with creating the profile... it just asks a couple of questions and you are done.12:54
spaceywould be cool to have it packaged for dapper *hint*12:54
spaceyalthough really late12:54
hungerspacey: Too late I think.12:55
subterrifici ended up fixing it by dropping into a console and removing all the symlinks and the old kernel from /boot and then rerunning update-initramfs -u12:55
ploumsubterrific: hmmm. I'm not expert at all. I would say : report it again intramfs (it's the part that produce the error). It could be changed later if it's wrong12:55
subterrificok, thanks12:55
hungerspacey: It needs to be started as early in the boot sequence as possible... I doubt that somebody may change the bootup process for that at this point in time.12:55
ploumhunger: seems intersting indeed. 12:55
spaceyhunger: yeah that would be a problem12:56
hungerploum: Well, it is by far not as powerful as selinux...12:56
ploumI think that Dapper target is more Desktop. Apparmour seems to be mainly for servers12:56
Burgworkploum, hunger, ajmitch_ is the right person to ask about selinux and apparmour12:56
ploum(of course there's Ubuntu Server ;-) )12:56
Burgworkploum, dapper is targetted at everything and so is app armour12:57
ploumBurgwork: Apparmour on a desktop ? Really ? 12:57
hungerploum: Nope... he said he uses profiles for every app with network access (gaim, firefox) and pdf readers.12:57
ploumhunger: I'm not a selinux expert at all12:57
Burgworkploum, it is very similar to selinux, with FC runs on their desktop12:57
ploumoh so..12:57
hungerploum: Basically everything where there were recent exploits;-)12:57
ajmitch_afaik, we'd have to choose one or the other12:58
ajmitch_which won't be up to me12:58
Burgworkajmitch_, what is your gut feeling? is the additional "complexity" of selinux worth it, due to the greater support for it?12:59
hungerajmitch_: Not my task either... selinux is more powerful... but apparmour is way easier... I do not even want to decide that.12:59
hungerBurgwork: I'd personally go for apparmour...12:59
ajmitch_Burgwork: I feel selinux is a better choice, but that's from someone who hasn't looked at apparmour very hard12:59
Burgworkhunger, have you used either?12:59
ploumit's like choosing between Xgl and Aiglx (or whatever is the name) :-)01:00
ajmitch_ploum: I'm afraid it's not :)01:00
hungerBurgwork: I have not used apparmour... and I failed to get selinux configured, so I wouldn't listen to me if I had anything to say:-)01:00
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Burgworkhunger, hence why I asked ajmitch_ ;)01:01
setuidRiddle me this, a source package for a dapper kernel should build out of the box, with debuild, right? 01:01
setuidI mean... I'm _running_ the binary version of that kernel, so it built on at least 1 machine01:01
ploumajmitch_: it was just a joke. I'm not at all in technical details01:01
ajmitch_setuid: yes, and I've built dapper kernels with just debuild (from the git tree)01:01
Burgworkajmitch_, it seems the main selling point of apparmour is that selinux is "hard"01:02
setuidajmitch_: Something is amiss with 2.6.15-16... gives me some weird error at boot about /dev/hda2 not existing, and dumps me to busybox01:02
hungerBurgwork: It was at the demo at fosdem.01:02
ajmitch_setuid: sounds like initramfs issues01:02
setuidBut /dev/hda2 works fine, 2.6.12-10 is booted to it (but no fxlrx driver support in 2.6.12)01:02
setuidajmitch_: Ok... lemme check that01:02
setuidinitramfs support packages are onboard, what else should I poke at? 01:03
ajmitch_Burgwork: of course, and having simplicity as a selling point of security isn't necessarily good01:03
hungerBurgwork: That and that apparmour works with all apps while selinux is supposed to have apps linked to some lib.01:03
=== ajmitch_ could pull up examples of why path-based MAC is bad, and all other stuff
ajmitch_hunger: vile lies :)01:03
ajmitch_hunger: a *few* apps get linked to libselinux, to get things like listing security contexts, etc01:04
hungerajmitch_: I am just repeating what I heared. As I said: I was too stupid to work out selinux.01:04
Burgworkajmitch_, I would love to see selinux or something similar for dapper+101:05
ajmitch_hunger: no, integrating something like that into a distro is not easy01:05
ajmitch_it's not a matter of stupidity01:05
ajmitch_Burgwork: sure, and for a change there are others willing to help out, mainly in debian01:05
Burgworkseems like either apparmour or selinux is simply a lot of work, either way01:05
hungerajmitch_: And frankly I do not feel comftable with the idea of having several independent sets of permissions (filesystem and selinux/apparmour whatever).01:05
ajmitch_there's a very capable team of people doing selinux in debian now01:05
ploumgood night01:05
Burgworkajmitch_, they might ship you to Germany in May if you offer to do selinux for dapper+101:06
ajmitch_Burgwork: hah funny01:06
Burgworkajmitch_, honestly, I would email Mark and say thta01:06
Burgworkbecause something like selinux would need to be decided as a goal at teh conference, due to its tentacles of doom nature01:07
ajmitch_Burgwork: what do you think I specced at the last 2 conferences?01:07
hungerBurgwork: And some really good docu will need to get written or too many people will just deactivate it (or - god forbid - leave for debian;-)01:08
ajmitch_hunger: fyi, https://alioth.debian.org/projects/selinux/01:09
hungerajmitch_: I know there is a project about selinux in debian, but it will take AGES to get that done there (if at all). Ubuntu can be much faster if you guys ever set your mind on getting it in.01:11
ajmitch_hunger: who are these 'you guys' that are so willing to help out?01:12
hungerajmitch_: The ubuntu developers. I am just a user listening in on you;-)01:12
ajmitch_the difference between ubuntu & debian is that there are people willing to do the work in debian01:12
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Burgworkok, I have now tried twice to kill the alternate init thread without success01:13
ajmitch_hunger: 'the developers' is a vague enough term - it's pretty much just been me who's cared in ubuntu01:13
ajmitch_Burgwork: some things just need to die naturally01:13
Burgworkajmitch_, sadly yes. Until then, hundreds of people will have more crap in their inboxes01:14
Burgworkone thing I noticed about the Fedora devel list is they don;t have the same policy of shutting people down who are posting things that belong on other lists01:14
ajmitch_at least it's not as nasty as the python stuff thread01:15
hungerajmitch_: Maybe. But ubuntu has fewer developers that need convincing.01:15
ajmitch_where the developers were accused of all sorts of incompetence01:15
ajmitch_hunger: good, get to work convincing them01:15
hungerajmitch_: Me? I'm just a user listening in here;-)01:16
ajmitch_yeah right01:16
hungerajmitch_: And I am not convinced myself yet.01:16
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ajmitch_saying 'the developers should..' without backing it up, is what doesn't work01:16
ajmitch_few developers means they're all stretched thin01:17
hungerajmitch_: I personally think security should be tightened somehow, I am just not yet sure selinux is the thing for me.01:17
j^is network-manger broken by the latest gnome-keyring upload?01:17
Burgworkajmitch_, to be fair to Ubuntu, it is much younger and the paid developers have a great deal on their plates01:18
hungerajmitch_: As I said earlier: it basically introduces another priviledge system that is independent of the traditional filesystem descretionary one.01:18
diemanubuntu experience as part of the qualifications01:19
dieman(its a repost for an internal canidate due to stupid hr rules)01:19
diemanbut still01:19
Burgworkdieman, where di you find that?01:20
ajmitch_hunger: which is the intended behaviour, because discretionary access control is seen to be limited01:21
ajmitch_dieman: at least it didn't mandate 3 years ubuntu experience01:21
diemanajmitch_: ahahah01:22
diemanBurgwork: i work there01:22
=== Burgwork has 12 years of Ubuntu experience and 9 years of Windows XP experience
diemanBurgwork: the posting is one of my coworkers who was on a 6month temp positing01:22
diemanthis one is a 12mo temp posting01:22
diemanits hr hell01:22
ajmitch_Burgwork: the developers having a lot on their plates is what I'm saying - there need to be very good reasons for resources to be allocated to tasks01:22
diemanyou can't just 'make jobs'01:22
Burgworkthere are good reasons for taht01:22
hungerajmitch_: Yes, I see that. I wouldn't mind if the old one could get removed altogether (which is obviously impossible). It just sucks having two systems for the same thing.01:23
subterrificok, one more question. after i got my flight-4 install to finish and then rebooted. it had set the grub root to (hd2,0) which was wrong and I was left with a 'Error 15: file not found' message. i had to manually change it to (hd0,0) so grub could find the kernel. what component is that a bug for?01:23
ajmitch_hunger: they complement each other - selinux takes DAC permissions into account as well01:24
hungerajmitch_: So if I were convinced of selinux: What could I do to help in the limited time I have.01:24
subterrificgrub-installer perhaps?01:24
ajmitch_hunger: we're past feature freeze for dapper - most work is in debian on the packaging of the reference policy right now01:25
hungerajmitch_: Yes, to some extend. But having ACLs and owner-group-other permissions will confuse the hell out of me:-)01:25
ajmitch_once that is in a usable state (which I started work on), then testing & tools is what's important01:26
ajmitch_hunger: you generally don't need to worry about them01:26
hungerajmitch_: I can test, I'll unable to stay on a stable system anyway:-)01:26
=== ajmitch_ can't do much at the moment, too busy with work
hungerajmitch_: Oh, believe me: I will need to worry about them! I change too many things on my systems not to run into that at some point.01:27
hungerajmitch_: Just tell me when there is anything to test. I'll do so if I have the time.01:27
diemanim still bummed out that i wont get to play with nfsv4 with dapper it sounds01:28
diemansince it breaks mounting sarge nfs userspace server mounts01:28
diemanno nfs filesystem acls for us just yet.01:28
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jdongwhere would I go to ask questions about the Ubuntu website?01:33
jdongmainly relating to the licensing of the stylesheets01:33
CarlFKjdong: try /join #ubuntu-doc01:34
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subterrificok, 3 bugs reported i encountered installing flight-4 last night: 33101, 33104, and 3310601:38
Burgworksubterrific, if they are filed, that is the correct place for disuccsion. I would also try the dailies01:39
CarlFKdapper installer errorrod, then hit 'go back" and dinked a bit - now I am looking at var/log/syslog tryihng to find the details of the error - what should I be searching for?01:46
CarlFK"[Ee] rror" isn't it01:46
CarlFKhere is all 400k of it: http://dev.personnelware.com/carl/temp/Feb27/e/log/syslog01:47
CarlFKfound it01:51
CarlFKduh... ERROR01:51
setuidhrm, loop-aes-utils doesn't allow >128bit passwords!?01:51
setuidioctl: LOOP_SET_STATUS: Invalid argument, requested cipher or key length (256 bits) not supported by kernel01:52
setuidIt worked in breezy, I wonder why it was crippled for dapper01:52
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jk-Riddell: ping ?01:59
hungersetuid: loop-aes is deprecated anyway.02:00
setuidhunger: In favor of...? 02:02
setuidhunger: I have a partition encrypted with aes256, and I need to access the data on it 02:02
setuidlosetup -e aes256 -C3 -S SuperSecret /dev/loop0 /dev/hdc102:03
setuidblah blah02:03
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setuidThat doesn't work in dapper, works in breezy02:03
mjrare you sure you've installed the separate loop-aes kernel module in dapper?02:03
hungersetuid: Use devicemapper. loopaes has sever problems with its implementation and was deprecated.02:04
setuidhunger: Any docs on that? 02:04
hungersetuid: google for cryptsetup:-)02:05
setuidI have that installed, problem is, I need to get into the partition as it is now02:05
setuidI can't just use cryptsetup, blow away 300GiB and start over02:05
setuidKNOPPIX can do it, but KNOPPIX (4.0.2) has *PITFULLY* slow usb implementation (200k/sec. max, over a usb2 that I get 40+MiB on regular transfers) 02:06
hungersetuid: The algorithem for encryption is identical. It is just the hash alg. used to generate the key that differs.02:07
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setuidSure, which means it won't work 02:07
hungersetuid: So you can make cryptsetup read loopaes partitions IIRc.02:07
setuidNote the -C3 above02:07
hungersetuid: "All" you need to do is find the right hash alg. and force cryptsetup to use that:-)02:07
mjrafaik cryptsetup is backwards-compatible with regular cryptoloop, but not loop-aes02:08
setuidSure, and then hash it 3 times with my seed, which cryptsetup does not support02:08
setuidmjr: Correct02:08
setuidI'd just like to know why it was crippled in dapper, and not in breezy02:08
=== mjr uses loop-aes incidentally also, with breezy
hungersetuid: Oh... then you are in trouble:-(02:08
setuidIt may be deprecated, but functionality should not have been _removed_ 02:08
mjrseemed to have better options02:08
mjrwhat with the multi-key-3 mode02:09
hungermjr: Have you looked into LUKS?02:09
mjrI've glanced at it02:09
setuidmjr: Got a dapper install somewhere? 02:09
mjron my laptop02:09
hungermjr: Stores all the details for you and is way nicer then anything else I used so far.02:09
mjr(where there's no encryption as of yet)02:10
mjrah well, I have the crypted fs mirrored so I can re-encrypt it easily by disengaging the mirror for a while, if need be02:11
setuidmjr: Just try to create a loopback file with aes256 under dapper02:11
setuidFor some reason, it ignores 256 and 128-bit keys... probably some other bug lurking02:11
hungersetuid: There is a script to access loopaes on dmcrypt here: http://clemens.endorphin.org/Cryptoloop_Migration_Guide02:11
setuidhunger: I'm not using dmcrypt, but I'll take a look02:11
hungersetuid: Dunno whether that will work for you.02:11
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setuidI'll just decrypt this, blow it away and rebuild it 02:13
setuidI set it as xfs anyway, which is bad to do on a crypted volume anyway02:13
mjrsetuid, sure you're using loop-aes-utils versions of losetup?02:13
hungersetuid: I'd recommend using devicemapper with LUKS then:-)02:13
setuidhunger: I need something that is distro-transparent, i.e. works with KNOPPIX and similar tools02:13
setuidmjr: Yes02:14
hungersetuid: Try the script... it should be able to mount loopaes volumes via devicemapper.02:14
hungersetuid: LUKS is meant to be distro-transparent. IIRC gnome-volume-manager supports it nowadays, so it can not be purely ubuntu;-)02:15
mjrhunger, that work for multi-key-modes 2 and 3 too?02:15
setuidhunger: Looks like that script is missing a good whack of functionality, specifically the target partition, mount point, seed and cipher number02:16
hungermjr: It should with a bit of twiddling;-)02:16
mjrsure, anything works when you twiddle enough source code02:16
setuidPrecisely ;) 02:17
hungermjr: calling hashalot several times should make that work I think. But I have never tried it, just stumbled over it googleing for setuid;-)02:17
mjrthat just hashes the password02:17
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setuidYeah, this script is very non-functional02:18
setuidThanks for the googling though02:18
hungersetuid: Too bad:-( I feel for you, I reencrypted my volumes several times so far as well:-(02:19
mjrpardon me, but my loop-aes setup has 64 different aes256 keys and one extra key for IV computation02:19
mjrI fail to see how this script makes use of that info02:19
setuidMine is a bit simpler than that. 02:20
setuidWhich kernel module (besides aes and aes_i586) do I need? 02:20
setuidmin keysize  : 1602:20
setuidmax keysize  : 3202:20
hungermjr: Been a while since I used loopaes.02:20
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hungersetuid: Tried using bytes instead of bits?02:21
hungersetuid: I guess you can't change that.02:21
setuid# losetup -d /dev/loop002:24
setuidioctl: LOOP_CLR_FD: Device or resource busy02:24
mjrhmh, I'd have to check how luks handles multi-key and IV before switching to that...02:24
setuidThis is so broken, I think I'm going to go back to Breezy or Sid02:24
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mjrcbc-essiv, mmh02:28
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setuidman, its taking this machine like 2 hours to build this kernel package... a normal (kernel.org) kernel build is like 7 minutes. 03:06
setuidwhoa, kernel just finished, now its doing modules. There must be some sort of a recursive loop here03:19
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CarlFKsomeone want to throw me a Package Name for a bug on the installers partitioner04:12
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setuidOk, more snags... how the heck do I compile the vmware modules on a distro-supplied kernel? I'm in a catch-22. I can't run dapper without fglrx (ATI hard-locks Thinkpads), and I can't build my own kernel from source because fglrx doesn't build clean. 04:34
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setuidSo I've got 2.6.15-16 installed, but now vmware wants kernel headers, but they don't exist, because this kernel was built as SMP, even on UP machines. 04:34
setuidArg! 04:34
setuidSo where are the headers for _this_ kernel? 04:34
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pinguI. Need to get a custom 2.6.15 kernel onto an AMD64 Ubuntu install CD.04:56
pinguDoes anyone have any suggestions?04:56
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pinguThat would be a no :/05:10
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theCoredoes anyone here know why Yelp doesn't render some characters?05:18
theCoreI would like to fix that, as soon as possible, because it's really annoying05:19
pinguDoes anyone here know anything about the install CD?05:27
pinguCan't seem to find where the modules go, there is a vmlinuz image in install though.05:28
pinguI somehow think replacing that just isn't going to do it for me.05:28
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TheMusopingu: They are in the initrd.gz image.05:33
psusipingu, there's a howto on the wiki05:34
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pinguThanks TheMuso!06:53
pinguA little late, but thanks.06:53
pingupsusi, I've seen the one which mentions just editing preseeds.06:53
pinguBut, I need a different kernel, that's a little beyond the preseed ;D06:54
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pinguIs there any way I can get a snapshot of the current kernel used on the livecd, anyone?06:57
pinguAs in, before it was compiled?06:57
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Kyraluhh, linux-source from the Dapper Repos?07:00
jk-Lathiat: ping ?07:03
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pinguNot dapper, but the install CD?07:03
pinguI'm specifically trying to get the sources of:07:04
pinguThe AMD64 kernel booted on the 5.04 install CD.07:04
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infinitypingu: Same answer.  If you want the kernel from 5.04, you want linux-source-2.6.10 from the hoary archive, if you want the kernel for 5.10, you want linux-source-2.6.12 from the breezy archive...07:10
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pinguSo the install CD.07:18
pinguIs just a stock kernel?07:18
pingu*install CD's kernel.07:18
Lathiatjk-: pong07:19
jk-Lathiat: hey!07:19
pinguinfinity: What about all those extra module packages, does the install CD shove those in the initrd too?07:21
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infinitypingu: That's the idea, yes.  They're only broken out into seperate packages for the installer, they're all in one package on the installed system, but it's the same kernel build, just split differently.07:27
pinguThanks for your help.07:28
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dholbachgood morning08:00
pinguGood afternoon.08:02
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LaserJockgood evening ;-)08:05
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pittiGood morning08:36
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stubLaunchpad is going down in 15 minutes time, which will also put the wikis into read only mode. Estimated down time is 10 minutes.09:08
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Mezmdz: ping09:14
mvoMez: he might be sleeping, it's late in his TZ09:15
Mezit's for when he's back09:15
Burglaptopmvo: it is only just past midnight here09:19
mvoBurglaptop: some people consider this late ;) but you are right of course, it's not a unusual time 09:20
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pinguOh noes. I'm still at work.09:38
pinguBye everyone!09:38
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KamionCarlFK: by the way, I recommend just using "debian-installer" if you don't have sure knowledge of the correct component name rather than picking one that includes "part" in its name ;-)09:46
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sivangmorning everybody10:02
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Kamionmvo: could apt.InstallProgress.updateInterface() perhaps call a method when the percentage/status changes and the status isn't pmerror or pmconffile?10:52
Kamionmvo: at the moment I don't really see how to properly handle percent/status changes without rewriting updateInterface, since the default implementation changes self.percent and self.status even for pmerror and pmconffile when the values will make no sense as percentages or statuses10:53
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Kamionmvo: also using the errno module for EAGAIN would be better than hardcoding 1111:01
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pittiinfinity: do you think it'll be necessary to rename mozillla-thunderbird-locale-all as well? After all, these xpi are from official mozilla...11:03
pittiinfinity: and we didn't rename mozilla-firefox-locale-all either11:03
Kamionmvo: and shouldn't you limit the split() to (status, pkg, percent, status_str) to 3 splits so that you don't inadvertently split on colons in status_str?11:03
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=== Kamion decides to rewrite anyway, being scared by the code now :)
mvoKamion: hello, sorry, I got disconnected11:05
mvoKamion: can you /msg me the bits I missed?11:05
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infinitypitti: I'm not picky one way or the other, and I doubt they are either, but from a UI perspective, if you have a package called "thunderbird" installed, you're going to look for "thunderbird-*" packages to extend its functionality, not "mozilla-thunderbird-*"11:13
cprovslomo: ping11:13
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cprovslomo: anyway, head-up on missing orig for liferea upload, see you later11:19
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slomo_Kamion: hi... please move gtk-sharp to universe and gtk-sharp2 back to main :) gtk-sharp2 was approved already before breezy release and now nothing in main depends on gtk-sharp anymore11:26
Kamionis gtk-sharp2 just a renaming of gtk-sharp2-unstable?11:34
=== Kamion is looking for a suitable main inclusion report, y'see
slomo_Kamion: yes11:34
Kamiongecko-sharp2 and gtk-sharp2 promoted; you might like to get somebody to look at seeding appropriate documentation packages from those sources11:37
Kamiongtk-sharp-gapi demoted, but according to anastacia the rest of the binaries from the gtk-sharp source are still in use somewhere11:38
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slomo_Kamion: yes, tomboy depends on it currently and the version which uses gtk-sharp2 is on dep-wait atm... this will solve itself after the gtk#2 version of tomboy built?11:39
Kamionuntil then it'll stay in main11:39
slomo_ok... shall i ping you when it built?11:40
Kamionalso dbus Build-Depends-Indep: libgtk-cil11:40
Kamionno need, it'll show up in anastacia and there's usually no great rush for demotions anyway11:40
slomo_not anymore in the latest version of dbus11:40
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KamionI'm looking at dbus 0.60-6ubuntu1, which is the current version in dapper11:41
slomo_ok, thanks :)11:41
Kamionalthough it failed to build, but even so11:41
slomo_huh? i'll take a look at it11:41
=== sivang arghs as tomboy crashes when pasted text into one of its note windows
slomo_Kamion: yes, was a mistake while merging dbus...11:43
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sabdflwho moderates ubuntu-devel-announce?11:51
pittisabdfl: Kamion at least11:52
sabdflKamion: could you give my post the go ahead when next you look at that queue please? not urgent11:53
sabdfljust a pointer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperIcons11:53
dholbachsabdfl: they look nice - who worked on those?11:54
sabdfldholbach: professional icon team11:55
Kamionsabdfl: done11:55
pittisabdfl: nice; SVG and all that?11:55
sabdfljane and i leading the specification, jdub prioritising11:55
tepsipakkithey indeed look great11:55
tepsipakkithe cd/dvd-icons that specify which media it is.. just like on OSX ;)11:57
tepsipakki(which I haven't even used, just seen over the shoulder)11:57
KamionKeybuk: my bad on floppy, I misread the code11:57
KamionKeybuk: ide-floppy as well?11:57
Kamionor will that be autoloaded?11:57
KeybukI think ide-floppy will be autoloaded11:58
KeybukSUBSYSTEM!="ide", GOTO="ide_end"11:58
KeybukIMPORT{program}="ide_media --export $devpath"11:58
KeybukENV{IDE_MEDIA}=="floppy",               RUN+="/sbin/modprobe -Qba ide-floppy"11:58
Keybukso yeah, that one's detectable11:58
Keybuk(ignoring the bug that udev doesn't work with anything above hdf :)11:59
KamionKeybuk: ok - will adding floppy to /etc/modules close #32599?12:01
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KamionKeybuk: the one concern I have is that modprobing floppy can be quite slow12:06
Kamionit certainly at least used to take a while in the installer on some machines, because it sat there synchronously trying to find floppy drives12:07
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Kamion     - Use x rather than x in progress bar12:07
=== Kamion wonders if that's Soyuz "helpfully" smashing everything to ASCII
KeybukKamion: other than 12:08
Keybukprobing it in the background, what other solution is there12:08
Keybuklike you say, the module itself looks for the drives12:08
KamionKeybuk: well, yeah, I'm just bringing it up since you care about boot times12:08
Keybukso until we load the module, we don't know that there *are* drives12:08
Keybukwhile you're in there, could you remove mousedev from /etc/modules? :p12:09
Keybukit's compiled in12:09
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tepsipakkiI have a intel-iMac at my disposal.. does the installer have any chance of working with that, or is it even considered to be supported hardware for dapper?12:27
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Kamiontepsipakki: I doubt it'll work yet, but if you have it convenient then telling us where it breaks would be *very* helpful!12:31
KamionI don't even know whether it has VESA compatibility12:32
Kamiontepsipakki: we (Canonical) have been trying to order one for testing, but as I understand it the order won't come through for a while yet12:32
tsengsomeone has hacked together a working knoppix cd with the relevant driver love12:33
tepsipakkiKamion: ok, I'll try to get it netboot ;)12:33
tepsipakki(whee, EFI looks nice ;)12:33
Kamiontepsipakki: doesn't it boot from CD?12:33
tepsipakkibut that's lame ;)12:33
Kamionit would be a more helpful test I think12:33
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tepsipakkiah, ok12:34
Kamionsince practically nobody will netboot those things just yet12:34
Kamionnetboot would be good too, but it can come later ...12:34
Kamiontseng: do you have a URL?12:34
tepsipakkisure, is flight-4 the one to test=12:34
tsengKamion: sure, lemme look12:34
Kamiontepsipakki: that or a current daily12:36
Kamionpitti: shouldn't locale-gen do mkdir -p "$SUPPORTED"? I have locales installed, but no /var/lib/locales/supported.d12:36
Kamionand locale-gen fails12:36
pittiright, it should12:37
pittiKamion: ah, the preinst generates it, but only for upgrades12:37
pittiKamion: will fix that12:38
tsengKamion: http://www.osxbook.com/book/bonus/misc/linux/12:38
tsengKamion: i thought this was a full knoppix iso, it seems to be something less12:38
tsengKamion: but the experience seems to be relatively well documented12:39
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WaterSevenUbpitti, dumb question. I may (or I should) close something like this https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/19474 given that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LangpacksDesktopfiles implemented?12:45
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Ubugtumalone bug 19474 in Ubuntu "desktop file translations are not updated with langpacks" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  12:45
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Kamionhmm, so no BIOS, EFI only, that'll be interesting12:47
Kamionmy impression is that we don't have free X drivers yet, so we're probably screwed on that front12:48
Kamionpitti: thanks12:48
Kamionbut it may be possible to figure out how to produce a hybrid ISOLINUX/elilo ISO image12:48
pittiWaterSevenUb: right, thanks for reminding me; I'll close it12:48
MithrandirKamion: as long as you keep the VESA fb around, you should be able to run VESA, I think12:49
KeybukKamion: EFI is easy enough ... cf. ia6412:50
Kamionunfortunately the Intel reference EFI implementation is non-free12:50
KamionMithrandir: that seems to be what the mactel lot are doing, yes12:50
KeybukI believe that people have them booting with elilo and keeping around the boot-loader framebuffer to get a console12:50
Kamionthe mactel people are using GraphicsConsole.efi from the Intel EFI implementation to get the console, and then chaining to elilo12:51
Keybukpitti: strange ... I just got my iAudio mounted as /media/sda1 not /media/iAudio12:51
Kamionunfortunately the former piece is non-free12:51
WaterSevenUbpitti, only the "assigned to" person can do it? the initial reporter can't or shouldn't do it?12:51
pittiWaterSevenUb: oh, I think everyone can12:52
pittiKeybuk: but sudo blkid /dev/sda1 can figure out the label?12:54
Keybuk/dev/sda1: LABEL="iAudio" UUID="43DB-3ADE" TYPE="vfat"12:55
Keybukit's worked every single time except for today12:55
Keybukhal got upgraded yesterday12:55
Kamionhmm, and Apple's EFI implementation apparently doesn't support UDF or ElTorito12:55
pittiKeybuk: indeed, for my USB stick, too12:56
pittiKeybuk: thanks for pointing that out, I'll investigate12:56
=== pitti adds to TODO
Treenakspitti: btw, the mounter doesn't look in the right place for the label with LUKS-encrypted volumes12:56
pittiTreenaks: we currently can't support label reading on crypto devices12:57
Treenakspitti: I think it looks at /dev/sda1 (the original place) instead of /dev/mapper/_dev_sda1 (the dm_crypt mapped one)12:57
pittiwe will in dapper+112:57
Treenakspitti: cool12:57
pittiwhen we switch to gnome-mount12:57
pittibut that's too late for dapper12:57
Keybukpitti: volume.label is right in hal-d-m12:57
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Keybukwhat's gnome-mount?12:57
Kamionoh, actually, a hybrid El Torito / HFS+ image like we use for powerpc would probably do it12:57
pittiKeybuk: a wrapper around hal's new Volume method to read user's gconf settings and so on12:58
pittiKeybuk: at least that's what it's meant to be12:58
Treenakspitti: replacement for g-v-m?12:58
pittiright now it doesn't evaluate any gconf settings12:58
Treenakspitti: or replacement for pmount?12:58
pittiTreenaks: neither12:58
pittiTreenaks: replacement for the hal fdi files which determined policy12:59
Treenaksextra layer between those two?12:59
pittiTreenaks: once we can make hal to handle the VOlume methods in a safe fashion, we could drop pmount for that12:59
pittior change gnome-mount to use pmount, whatever we like12:59
pittiright now I disabled mounting through hal since it's nowhere near safe01:00
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pittiKeybuk: ah, bug 33120 matches your problem :)01:19
Ubugtumalone bug 33120 in hal "HAL 0.5.7 broke /media/{labelname}" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3312001:19
Keybukyou don't keep an eye on your incoming bugs too, eh? :p01:20
pittiI just did the first time for today01:20
KeybukI don't know why I don't ... there's something about the way Malone floods you with incoming e-mail that makes it damned hard to deal with my "bugs" folder01:21
Keybukif I could put my finger on it, I'd file a bug01:21
pittiKeybuk: mail works pretty fine IMHO, but browsing in the UI sucks a lot01:21
pittibut Malones' email interface was broken a few days back, too, which hurted a lot01:22
=== pitti hopes it's fixed again, will try out later
Keybukyeah, the UI seriously needs a "show me all bugs I probably care about" mode01:22
pitti... on *one* page01:22
Keybukrather than the kooky "bugs I'm assigned to" thing, which misses all the new ones01:22
siretartisn't that wat 'subscribed bugs' are supposed to be01:24
Keybukpitti: I do wish Malone wouldn't mail me my own bug traffic sometimes though01:25
KeybukI clear out the bugs folder, do a bunch of stuff, and have to clear it out again01:25
Keybuksiretart: that doesn't seem to include Assigned bugs01:25
KeybukI have bugs in my assigned list that aren't in that one01:25
Keybukyou seem to be able to be assigned but not subscribed01:26
Keybuknot to mention subscribed includes reported bugs, which I don't want to see when I'm in a "things I need to fix" mood01:26
siretartthats strange01:26
siretartusually, when I think that somebody should look at, but I don't want to assign him this bug, I subscribe him and make a comment. so he gets the email01:27
ograKeybuk, just get a secretary :)01:27
Keybuksiretart: heh, I hate it when people do that ... because I nearly always miss the context of when they subscribed me01:27
Keybukthe UI doesn't say "YOU WERE SUBSCRIBED HERE" in the list of comments01:27
Keybukso I'll read the first 3 or 4, decide the bug has nothing to do with me, and unsubscribe again01:28
Keybukthen discover later than the 15th or 16th comment explained why I was copied in01:28
siretartKeybuk: I see. I try to avoid that by giving the reason for subscribing (you) in the very first comment after subscribing. But I see your point01:29
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Keybuksiretart: yeah, I make sure I put the person's name in the comment, then they can grep the UI for it01:32
Keybukusually at the start, e.g. "Kamion, can you ..."01:32
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siretartbtw, does anyone know if madwifi-ng is going into dapper?01:43
siretartI've seen some test packages from infinity, but they seem not to be in dapper yet. I've yet noticed 'scanning problems' in recent madwifi uploads01:43
Keybukmost likely not01:44
Keybukseb128: ping?01:44
seb128Keybuk: pong01:44
=== Mithrandir ruffles avahi
Keybukseb128: you remember I told you that Monospace was "dancing" in gnome-terminal01:45
=== Treenaks pokes it with a long pointy stick
KeybukI managed to capture it01:45
Keybuk(or just the sequence: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/dance.png)01:45
TreenaksKeybuk: !! we love you!01:45
TreenaksKeybuk: I have this all the time01:45
MithrandirKeybuk: shiny01:45
Mithrandirtry turning off gif animations.01:45
seb128ah, nice :)01:46
Keybukahh, I'm glad I'm able to hit Mithrandir in real life <g>01:46
=== Mithrandir ruffles Keybuk too
Keybukseb128: where should I file the bug?01:46
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seb128Keybuk: that is a good question ... and I'm not sure. I would try vte :)01:46
dholbachseb128: say something we don't have anything to do with... say freetype or something01:47
Treenaksdholbach: 'X bug'01:47
seb128dholbach: you do freetype ...01:47
dholbachi don't01:47
dholbachseb128: Riddell touched it last01:47
seb128ah, nice :)01:48
Mithrandirf is almost g, so that clearly falls into the jurisdiction of the gnome team.01:48
MithrandirI love the concept of "touched it last" maintainers01:48
seb128we have been relocated01:48
seb128we are "Desktop Team" now :)01:48
Mithrandirso you get all the d* and the g* packages?01:48
Keybukand the f packages01:48
Treenaksseb128: you do KDE and XFCE too now?01:48
seb128Treenaks: no way :p01:48
Mithrandirdesktop is almost spelt with an f.01:48
seb128and no, we don't do dpkg01:49
Mithrandirdpkg is love01:49
KeybukPackage: dpkg01:49
KeybukMaintainer: Tollef01:49
Keybuknah, you're safe from dpkg ... iwj touched it last01:50
Mithrandirthe loop is complete.  The universe may die now?01:50
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G0SUBhello! there is a bug in malone #1299 01:53
Ubugtumalone bug 1299 in librmagick-ruby "Image.read(filename) eats characters from filename" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/129901:53
G0SUBthe only way to fix it is to backport the latest version to Breezy01:53
Keybuklaunchpad doesn't know person "treenaks"01:54
TreenaksKeybuk: it knows 'martijn' though01:54
KeybukTreenaks: I went for van de streeeeeeek01:54
G0SUBi am fixing it ... will you guys review it and upload?01:54
Keybukand now I'm going to file another annoying launchpad ui01:54
Keybukthe fact you have to open and close the drop down without changing it to MAKE THE DAMNED FORM SUBMIT01:55
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infinityKeybuk: That's because buttons are *SO* last year.01:59
Keybukright, bug 33145 filed01:59
Ubugtumalone bug 33145 in malone "Cannot submit form if Person requires clarifying without doing a non-obvious no-op" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3314501:59
Keybukand bug 33144 for seb128 and dholbach :)02:01
Ubugtumalone bug 33144 in vte "Bold fonts do the mambo" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3314402:01
HiddenWolfWell, at's least it's a cheery bug. :)02:03
seb128Keybuk: do you use a special tex mode?02:08
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Keybukseb128: just the default one, why?02:09
seb128Keybuk: because my tex mode doesn't looks the same and doesn't use bold fonts, but it might be a custom one02:10
TreenaksKeybuk: my comment added02:10
Keybukseb128: odd, I don't even fiddle with fontification uch, just force global-font-lock-mode on as usual02:12
Keybukobviously it's not just the TeX mode that shows it up ;)  but that happens to be what I'm doing currently02:12
TreenaksKeybuk: it's reproducible in vim perl mode as well, just use that ;)02:13
Keybukand a treenaks points out, not just emacs02:13
seb128I've no bold font with vim and syntax on a perl stuff neither02:13
KeybukTreenaks: you forget what company I work for ... using Perl is a sackable offense02:13
seb128what font do you guys use?02:13
TreenaksKeybuk: Not using perl is, for me...02:13
Treenaks'Monospace 7' here02:13
KeybukBitstream Vera Sans Mono02:14
Treenaks(yes, 7)02:14
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KeybukMonospace 1002:14
Keybukat 75dpi02:14
Treenaks  resolution:    99x98 dots per inch02:14
Keybuk(though I see it on my desktop at 96 dpi too)02:14
KeybukTreenaks: check System -> Preferences -> Fonts -> Details02:14
Keybukseb128: Subpixel Full RGB02:15
Keybuk(for the rest of the details)02:15
Treenakssame here02:15
seb128k, I get it too02:17
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sivangKinnison: ping, have you managed to solve your emacs problem under Xgl? 02:21
slomo_Kinnison: short question... would it be possible or is it planned to open a bug automatically when a package FTBFS (and close when package builds fine again, reopen when it fails again + comment with buildlog etc)?02:22
Kinnisonsivang: no, sorry02:22
Keybukslomo_: that way lies madness02:22
Keybukpackages fail to build for more reasons than you'd believe02:22
KeybukJeff uploads new glibc, after a day of every single upload generating a new bug report every hour, we'd kill him02:22
Keybukand we need Jeff02:22
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slomo_hm ok... but some kind of FTBFS notification would be nice ;)02:23
Keybukwe have them02:23
Keybukit's called "infinity"02:23
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Keybukand if you care more than waiting until Adam notices, the build logs are available on Launchpad for your own interest02:23
Keybukusually if you upload and care, you'll notice binaries not showing up in short order, and investigate yourself02:23
KeybukKinnison: some kind of bayesian analysis of build logs? :p02:24
slomo_Keybuk: yes sure... i care for my uploads but what is with automatic syncs after dapper?02:24
Keybuktrain crm114 to detect failed builds, and successful builds02:24
zakameooh madness!02:25
Keybukslomo_: they'll get noticed by buildd admins, who'll file a bug in the right place02:25
zakamehi everyone02:25
slomo_Keybuk: sounds ok... but much work for them when they do that for universe too02:25
infinityslomo_: It's my intention, once finer-grained ACLs are done in launchpad's buildd interface, to train a well-trusted MOTU and get him to handle some of the workload for universe buildd wrangling.02:26
zakameinfinity: I'm interested :)02:27
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infinityslomo_: I suspect this is a post-dapper goal, given how many other features we need in place before that.  But it'll happen.02:27
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slomo_infinity: thanks :) it isn't that urgent right now as now everybody should care for their uploads and nothing is getting in automatically ;)02:29
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setuidWhat provides the /media/* hookups? udev? For some reason, I only have /media/sdc1 style mounts, not /media/usbdisk-1, and so on. 02:38
Mithrandirsetuid: gnome-volume-manager and pmount-hal02:39
=== setuid checks
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setuidOk, I have gnome-volume-manager and pmount installed, what must I tweak? 02:39
Mithrandirsetuid: it ought to just work02:40
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Keybuksetuid: bug 3312002:41
Ubugtumalone bug 33120 in hal "HAL 0.5.7 broke /media/{labelname}" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3312002:41
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Keybukseb128: odd, I get NXDOMAIN for qa.mandriva.com02:44
Keybukactually, not true, I get SERVFAIL02:44
=== Treenaks hands Keybuk a proper DNS server
KeybukTreenaks: hand it to Tollef, I'm at his office02:47
ograogra@edubuntu:~$ host qa.mandriva.com02:47
ograHost qa.mandriva.com not found: 2(SERVFAIL)02:47
ograsame here 02:47
Keybukgrr ... gnome-terminal is now doing its "I'm not going to start another one, ha-ha" bug02:47
KeybukTreenaks: just tried a scratch recursive lookup, and the dns server is definitely down -- it must be in your cache02:48
TreenaksKeybuk: hm.. ok02:48
seb128$ host qa.mandriva.com02:49
seb128qa.mandriva.com has address
Mithrandirhost is useless for DNS debugging02:49
setuidSome weirdness with nautilus too, probably related. 02:49
setuidNo icons show on the desktop02:49
seb128Mithrandir: I don't want to debug, that was just to point the IP02:49
seb128setuid: no, that's a gconf setting02:49
setuidseb128: Oh? I wonder why that default changed from Breezy to Dapper02:50
seb128and /system/storage stuff02:50
ograMithrandir, for the firts debugging step (does it resolve ?) its enough ;)02:50
seb128setuid: because that's an unstable version you are trying, upstream did some changes and we didn't clean up the way we want yey02:51
seb128yey -> yet02:51
ograKeybuk, can you get www.mandriva.com ? they seem to have a bigger problem ... that one resolvs bit the webserver seems broken02:55
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Keybukogra: I can02:58
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ograhmm, i'm redircted to wwwnew.m.c which doesnt load02:59
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tepsipakkihmm, the x86-iMac doesn't show the daily-install-cdrom as a bootable media.. I'll try netboot03:09
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ograwhaa, what made my edubuntu CD explode ? 03:20
zulyou stickeed it in the microwave? ;)03:21
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ogra*sigh* example-content is 8MB big ? no way for edubuntu ....03:22
=== ogra removes
pittisetuid: yes, known bug, as Keybuk said03:22
pittiogra: 8 MB?? holy...03:23
setuidpitti: Right, trying to fix that up now03:23
pittisetuid: I will fix it ASAP03:23
ograpitti, yup :/ no way i can make so much space on any edubuntu Cd03:23
setuidNeed to locate 0.5.6-4ubuntu4 03:23
seb128I think that example-content is a waste of CD space03:23
ograseb128, ++03:23
seb128it's not useful for an installation03:23
pittiseb128: it's nice for the live CD, though03:24
seb128I can get the point for a demo liveCD, but on a desktop ...03:24
seb128pitti: right03:24
ografor edubuntu it doesnt even fit on the liveCD ...03:25
RiddellKamion: patch for espresso to make usersetup.py UI independent http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/espresso.diff03:27
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Keybukseb128: bug 33153 ... any other debugging info I can provide while the bug is still hot and reproducible?03:33
Ubugtumalone bug 33153 in gnome-terminal "Factory refuses to spawn new terminals" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3315303:33
Keybuk(if not, I'll kill the running factory and the bug will go away for a while)03:34
seb128Keybuk: does starting an xterm work?03:34
Keybukalso gnome-terminal --disable-factory works03:34
seb128so that's not the same bug as pitti got03:34
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KamionRiddell: thanks, applying (with a trivial rearrangement in gtkui.py)03:35
seb128Keybuk: nop, not really. I'll ping upstream and ask you if they need anything next time you face the issue03:35
Keybukok, it happens about once every day or two, so won't be long before I can debug it again <g>03:35
Keybukdamn, had a cool rhythmbox bug there03:37
Keybukbut didn't screenshot it in time03:37
Keybuk"Now playing" ... and an empty notify popup :)03:37
TreenaksKeybuk: hidden bonus track!03:38
Keybuknow that reminds me of those cute intro quizzes people did for a while03:38
seb128do you have any special char?03:38
Keybukand the silly person who managed to copy the id3 tags into the files03:38
seb128there is an escaping issue fixed with the CVS03:38
seb128I've to backport the patch on my list03:38
Keybukseb128: if & is special, yes03:38
seb128yep, it has to be escaped03:38
seb128probably that bug03:38
Keybukok, won't bother with that one then03:38
seb128Keybuk: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33078403:39
Ubugtugnome2 bug 330784 in User Interface "Notification bubble shows empty" [Trivial,Resolved: fixed]  03:39
seb128for the record03:39
seb128Diziet: around?03:43
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tepsipakkiKamion: x86-iMac support for the installer would need an elilo.efi loader, and some kernel patches I think: http://www.osxbook.com/book/bonus/misc/knoppix/03:47
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Kamiontepsipakki: yep, already found that link03:49
Kamionor been pointed to it, whichever03:49
Dizietseb128: Hello.03:50
seb128Diziet: hi :)03:50
Diziet(Just happened to glance at IRC.  In general, if you actually want an answer in a timely fashion, feel free to phone.  Email is good too.)03:50
seb128Diziet: do you think that the "open with" dropped from firefox will stay that way?03:50
Kamiontepsipakki: we need the patches filed as bugs in the relevant places, and some clue about how to build CDs in a way that the Intel Macs can boot03:50
DizietI haven't read the flamewar^Wdiscussion today yet.  It depends what people thing.03:50
DizietErr, think.03:50
DizietWhy ?03:51
seb128Diziet: no hurry, I replied on the list about your firefox mail and you got a bug but didn't comment on any03:51
seb128Diziet: it breaks all the stuff using gecko03:51
Kamiontepsipakki: the latter I think can probably be done using a hybrid ISO9660/HFS+ filesystem the way we do on powerpc already, but it isn't entirely clear03:51
seb128Diziet: so I have to let know upstream if they should put some special workaround for Ubuntu and if I should start patching epiphany, galeon, etc03:51
Dizietseb128: I saw your bug report about gecko.  Can you explain ?03:51
DizietI mean, why doesn't it just do the nice (or nasty, depending on your opinion) thing for gecko-embedders too ?03:52
seb128epiphany has an option "automatic download"03:52
seb128which allows to get stuff automatically open03:52
seb128or to get the "save as or open" dialog if not used03:52
seb128your change break the option03:53
seb128it automatically opens all the time now03:53
seb128and store stuff to /tmp03:53
pittislomo: mono-tools, nunit, nant approved for main03:53
DizietOh, you probably don't have the download manager disappearing again, either.03:53
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seb128Diziet: the guy who opened https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/32934 is epiphany upstream03:53
Ubugtumalone bug 32934 in firefox "auto-download breaks embedders" [Normal,Confirmed]  03:53
Diziet(Really I wish these things didn't turn up in the download manager.)03:53
seb128Diziet: so feel free to ask any technical question you want on the bug03:54
slomo_pitti: cool thanks :) is it too late for a new maininclusionreport (liferea)?03:54
DizietThey're not downloads.03:54
pittislomo_: no, promotions/demotions can happen for a while still03:54
DizietSo that breaks epiphany.  But what about the other gecko-embedders ?03:54
DizietI mean, I could just move the pref out of gecko into firefox (effectively), I think.03:54
slomo_pitti: ok... a package in main is dependening on a binary package out of mono-tools... so i don't have to do anything for these 3?03:55
pittiKamion: btw, racoon promotion is fine (source in main since warty), and libpng source-only promotion too (source renamed from libpng3)03:55
pittislomo_: 'these 3'?03:56
pittislomo_: you can consider mono-tools in main now03:56
seb128Diziet: better to reply on the malone bug imho, upstream know the code better03:56
Kamionpitti: done, thanks03:56
pittislomo_: (for the purpose of a new main inclusion report, that is)03:56
seb128he did some comments on IRC friday03:56
seb128<chpe>  +  if (!(NS_SUCCEEDED(rv) && defPrefBranch)) return PR_TRUE;03:56
seb128<chpe>  who wrote that!?03:56
seb128<chpe>  NS_FAILED exists for a reason :p03:56
seb128by example03:56
seb128Diziet: as I got it, right it would be nice to move the pref from gecko to firefox03:57
KamionRiddell: uploaded03:58
Dizietseb128: re NS_FAILED: uh,  I wrote  !(NS_SUCCEEDED(rv) &&   not   (!NS_SUCCEEDED(rv) &&03:58
DizietAnd why is he trying to do code review feedback by IRC ??03:58
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seb128Diziet: no, he was just looking on the patch03:59
tepsipakkiKamion: I'll see what can be done.. but the machine is here maybe for a week, so it won't be here for testing after that ;)03:59
DizietOK, I'll reply to the bug.03:59
pittiKamion: may I bother you with approving culmus for breezy-updates? (cprov wanted to have a test package)03:59
Dizietlooking on the patch == reviewing the code03:59
seb128Diziet: that come that way, nobody warned them about the changes, and they started getting bugs on epiphany03:59
seb128Diziet: so they looked on what we did03:59
seb128ie: got the firefox diff and looked on what the diff do :)03:59
seb128I think that was just some "talking on IRC while reading the patch"04:00
slomo_pitti: ok, so these 3 (mono-tools, nunit, nant) only have to be added to the overrides by Kamion and everything is fine?04:00
seb128anyway chpe opened the bug, so better to reply on it and ask whatever might be useful for you04:00
pittislomo_: right, anastacia already wants mono-tools, so germinate-wise they are fine04:00
seb128Diziet: thank you 04:00
DizietI did suggest he should mail ubuntu-devel but I don't think he did.04:00
seb128I don't think they are subscribes to ubuntu-devel04:01
pittislomo_: if some binaries of mono-tools are not caught by dependencies, then we might need to explicitly seed them, though; please just tell us in this case04:01
slomo_pitti: ok :) hmm, i'll fix dbus now (still FTBFS)... or are you already doing it?04:02
pittislomo_: hm, it worked here (I could reproduce the former FTBFS)04:03
pittislomo_: last time I checked it wasn't attempted to build yet04:03
=== pitti checks again
slomo_pitti: i don't understand the current ftbfs yet :)04:03
=== pitti hits autotools really, really hard (again)
pittislomo_: I removed all autotools stuff  from my system and it built fine *sigh*04:04
pittislomo_: I'm currenlty a bit busy, so if you have time and want to fix it, go ahead :)04:04
pittiotherwise I try to look into it later today04:05
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slomo_pitti: i'll take a look at it ;) are you still doing the reports?04:05
pittitrying to reduce the queue a bit :)04:06
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pittislomo_: do you use liferea heavily? how stable and user friendly is it?04:13
slomo_pitti: i use it always ;) i never had a crash with the latest versions on ppc or x86, only amd64 is a bit crashy currently but this could also be a problem in the libraries below (i.e. glib, pango, gtkhtml)... it's imho easy to use... i don't know what could be done better but i'm probably the wrong to ask regarding user friendlyness as i'm using it since ages04:16
pittialright, so it's not brand new unstable crack then?04:16
slomo_no... first upload to debian was 2004, the app itself exists even longer, maybe 2002... we had it since warty04:17
pittislomo_: I installed and started it; two thirds of the articles are empty, and it crashed after a few clicks with a segfault (amd64)04:19
slomo_pitti: uh... what feeds do you have in there? and segfaults on amd64 are normal unfortunately... sometimes it happens instantly, sometimes after a day of use... that's what i meant with crashy on amd64 above04:21
pittislomo_: just the default one (mozillaZine I think)04:21
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slomo_pitti: ah wait... you mean the article summaries are empty? that happens when there's no summary for the article in the feed which is the case for most feeds of news sites :/ you can get the article by double clicking on it04:22
pittislomo_: ah, I see04:22
pittislomo_: the back trace looks quite useful04:23
pittislomo_: maybe you can take a look at it?04:23
slomo_pitti: sure... paste it somewhere :)04:23
AlinuxOSmjg59, hello04:23
AlinuxOSmjg59,  around ?04:23
AlinuxOSpitti, hello ;)04:23
pittislomo_: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/954104:24
=== pitti waves to AlinuxOS
mjg59AlinuxOS: Hi04:24
pittislomo_: it calls _gdk_x11_convert_to_format() with a NULL pointer argument, should be quite obvious04:25
pittihi mjg59, how are you?04:25
slomo_pitti: oh, that's something new i never saw before... the bug i meant is bug 473204:25
Ubugtumalone bug 4732 in liferea "liferea crashes when it jumps to a new article" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/473204:25
mjg59Stuck clearing a lab04:25
AlinuxOSmjg59, I've talked with pitti yesterday...04:25
mjg59AlinuxOS: Ok04:25
AlinuxOShe told me that he needs georgian font-s source package :)04:25
mjg59They're in the archive04:26
tepsipakkiKamion: uh, the kernel-diff is 2MB.. I believe this won't make it in for dapper ;)04:26
pittimjg59: oh, I could only find your deb on the URL stated in the bug report04:26
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mantiena-baltixhi doko 04:26
pittimjg59: so much the better, great :)04:26
mjg59pitti: They're supposed to be in universe04:27
mjg59I uploaded some time ago04:27
AlinuxOSmjg59, yes 2 weeks ago I suppose04:27
mdkejdub, the planet rss20.xml feed is broken again. 04:27
AlinuxOSmjg59, what about changes of default font for Gnome interface ?04:27
slomo_pitti: thanks... hmm... there's no function from liferea called so can we assume that the bug is somewhere outside liferea?04:28
pittimjg59: do you see an easy way to (ab-)use dbus' at_console policy check so that other programs (like g-v-m) can call a dummy function to check whether they are on a currently active display?04:28
AlinuxOSBPG_Chveulebrivi.ttf  BPG_Courier.ttf  BPG_Glaho.ttf this free fonts are contained in .deb package04:28
Treenaksmdke: that error is WEIRD!04:28
AlinuxOSBPG_Glaho.ttf is most sutable for GNOME interface04:28
mdkeTreenaks, due to & char I suppose04:28
AlinuxOSbut by default there is BPG_Courier.ttf 04:28
pittislomo_: not necessarily; something likely passes wrong (i. e. NULL) arguments down the chain04:29
Treenaksmdke: hmm. yeah, I see04:29
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mjg59pitti: Not really. The Right Answer is to use Davidz's spec04:29
mjg59(That he's just posted a first cut of)04:29
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AlinuxOSmjg59, is there some techniques that can change default font for GNOME interface ?04:29
pittiAlinuxOS: I already told you, it needs proper fontconfig changes04:30
AlinuxOSexample BPG_Courier.ttf to BPG_Glaho.ttf04:30
mjg59AlinuxOS: It needs Fontconfig work, but unfortunately I don't understand fontconfig04:30
ograpitti, whats the advantage of a dbus function over getenv("DISPLAY") ?04:30
slomo_pitti: hm, when does this happen? and is it reproducible always?04:30
=== Groulala is now known as ploum
AlinuxOSpitti, yes you've told me but I don't know who can change things there ?04:30
pittiogra:  that doesn't help me to detect whether the app is on the current foreground console04:31
AlinuxOSand who is mantainer ?04:31
AlinuxOSmaybe I can talk with a mantainer about this ? :)04:31
pittislomo_: I reproduced it twice in a row without any difficulty04:31
ograpitti, ah04:31
pittimjg59: where did he post his spec? in his blog?04:32
slomo_pitti: interesting... it isn't that easy on the amd64 of my brother... well, defer the report for now until i ping you again about it ;) interesting thing is, that nobody in debian had this problem on amd6404:33
Hirionslomo_, sometimes liferea crashes after a few minutes, sometimes after some hours...04:35
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mjg59pitti: Yes04:37
AlinuxOSwho is Keith Packard ? :)04:37
AlinuxOSmaybe he is here .)04:37
TreenaksAlinuxOS: I saw him at FOSDEM04:38
AlinuxOShe is fontconfig mantainer :)04:38
AlinuxOSor packages :)04:38
AlinuxOSpackager for debian :)04:38
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jonoheya sabdfl04:42
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Ubuntu Development (not support, even with dapper) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Flight CD 4 released | If your initramfs is broken in any way, please save a copy for infinity
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by Kamion at Sun Feb 19 10:27:39 2006
(koke/#ubuntu-devel) There are some missing translations in dapper, but they are ok in /usr/share/locale-langpack04:46
koke(the tooltips of Applications/System/Places)04:46
kokebut the menus are translated04:47
slomo_pitti: are you using the gtkhtml or mozilla renderer? please try with liferea-mozilla (and set this in the preferences of liferea)04:47
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jonoKeybuk, oi!04:49
jonoKeybuk, hows it going pal?04:49
Keybukcold - but otherwise good04:49
jonoKeybuk, are you in brum?04:50
Keybukno, Oslo04:50
jonooh really?04:50
KeybukI get about a bit :)04:50
jonoKeybuk, oh yeah, you said you would be away for a bit04:50
jonohow is it there, apart from cold?04:50
sivangKeybuk: what are you doing over incol oslo ? :) (/me guesses working with tollef)04:50
Mithrandirsivang: making snowmen.04:51
ogradoes xlibs-static-pic have an successor ? does anybody know the name ? 04:51
Mithrandirogra: no, it doesn't. Why do you need it?04:51
ograMithrandir, vlc build deps on it ...04:52
sivangMithrandir: heh, /me wishes for some snow instead of the desert dust that been rulling in Tel Aviv lately04:52
ograi was just about to fix screensaver stuff in there and do a testbuild ...04:52
Keybukjono: mostly just cold actually04:52
Mithrandirogra: which parts does it need?04:53
AlinuxOSpitti, I'll mail fontconfig package mantainer about bpg-georgian-fonts problems. ;)04:53
Keybukthere's probably some other stuff, but I'm TOO COLD to think about it04:53
Keybukhmm, how unsufferably British of me, bitching about the weather04:53
jonoKeybuk, yes indeed, I assume you are sat there in your Union Jack shorts04:53
pittiAlinuxOS: great04:54
ograMithrandir, no idea its in the build-deps is all i know for now 04:54
Mithrandirogra: find out, then04:54
ograENOCRIMSUN :(04:55
AlinuxOSpitti, will this package by default in Dapper Drake ?04:55
AlinuxOSto have native support of georgian language  ?04:55
pittiAlinuxOS: this sentence no verb :)04:55
pittiAlinuxOS: we can include the font if it's fontconfig'ed properly, yes04:55
AlinuxOSpitti, I have a soultion :) maybe you can include only BPG_Glaho.ttf font :)04:56
AlinuxOSit's most usable and better than other04:56
pittithat still reqires fontconfig'ing04:56
AlinuxOSand other fonts can be added later from another package 04:57
pittibut I always appreciate reducing package size :)04:57
AlinuxOSpitti, :) consider that BPG_Glaho.ttf is the main font for gnome interface.04:57
AlinuxOSit's only 149K04:57
pittiAlinuxOS: what did you have to do to make it work properly, apart from installing hte deb?04:57
AlinuxOSother fonts are not requred for georgianisation of gnome :)04:58
pittidid you manually configure it in the gnome font dialog?04:58
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AlinuxOSI've removede other 2 fonts :)04:58
AlinuxOSI don't need them for interface.04:58
AlinuxOSBPG_Glaho.ttf works great (small medium and huge) sizes04:59
pittii. e. just dropping that one ttf into your font folder is everything required?04:59
=== pitti doesn't know anything about font handling unfortunately
jonohttp://www.desktoplinux.com/files/article019/osdl-dtl-survey-12.jpg - nice!05:00
AlinuxOS/usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-bpg-georgian$ ls05:00
AlinuxOSBPG_Glaho.ttf  fonts.cache-105:00
AlinuxOSyes :)05:00
AlinuxOSpitti, I use only this fonts05:00
AlinuxOSand have whole GNOME in georgian :)05:00
AlinuxOSit's shared with openoffice too :)05:00
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AlinuxOSmainly other fonts are used for typing.05:01
pittiAlinuxOS: you just dropped that ttf into that dir, and everything magically worked?05:01
pitti(that would be wonderful, but sounds like black magic to me)05:02
AlinuxOSpitti, before I need fc-cache 05:02
AlinuxOSin /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-bpg-georgian$ directory05:02
AlinuxOSthan restart X and magically everything is in georgian05:02
AlinuxOSof course locales must be in georgian :)05:02
AlinuxOSyou must specify Georgian like default language in "Language Selector"05:03
pittiright, setting locale is clear05:04
pittiAlinuxOS: ok, the package's postinst script should deal with fc-cache05:04
AlinuxOSso the procedure is: put BPG_Glaho.ttf into /usr/share/fonts/truetype/geo, then move into geo, lauch fc-cache, restart X..and voila :)05:04
AlinuxOSpitti, yes is very simple :)05:05
pittiindeed, that's scaringly simple :)05:05
pittiwhere's the catch?05:05
AlinuxOSmjg59, so ? :) do you like this georgian font tip ? :)05:05
mjg59No, we should just fix the fontconfig configuration05:06
mjg59Which requires finding someone who understands the damn thing, but.05:06
AlinuxOSBPG_Glaho.ttfwe can use like main font for gnome interface ;) and other + extra pacakges05:06
=== pitti installs ttf-bpg-georgian-fonts and gets a lot of 'Use of uninitialized value in print' warnings
AlinuxOSpitti, ;)05:06
AlinuxOSmjg59, no fontconfig maestros on ubuntu-devel ? 05:07
AlinuxOSfor example you pitti as German, which font do you use for main interface ? 05:07
pittino idea, I never bothered to change it05:07
pittijust the default one05:07
ograbitstream vera then :)05:08
AlinuxOSpitti, eh, you indoeuropeans are lucky :(05:08
ograpitti, sans points to vera :)05:08
pittiAlinuxOS: so, yes, the package already deals with the fc-cache call05:08
AlinuxOSbut I'm too tired ..because I'm alone who cares about this...05:08
ograAlinuxOS, youre doing a great job :)05:08
AlinuxOSsome people has donwloaded Ubuntu in georgia...and tested packages05:09
AlinuxOS(pitti, no erros now :D with double .mo files)05:09
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pittiAlinuxOS: alright, I can remove the other two fonts from the package if it helps to make it work OOTB05:09
AlinuxOSand who interface wasn't in BPG_Glaho.ttf, but in courier05:09
pittiAlinuxOS: then we just need to add it to the desktop seed (but I'll test it again to make doubly sure)05:09
AlinuxOSand it was horrible :)05:10
AlinuxOSogra, thank you, it's the first week that I'm GNOME's georgian coordinator too :)05:10
=== AlinuxOS almost alone, translates GNOME... :) %-)
AlinuxOSneed help, but people is too lasy :)05:11
fabbionehas racoon been moved from universe to main?05:11
fabbionepitti: ^^05:11
AlinuxOSfabbione, :) italian ?05:11
mjg59pitti: No, that isn't a good option. It means that anyone who adds the fonts gets breakage.05:11
pittifabbione: yes05:12
pittifabbione: any trouble with that?05:12
fabbionepitti: no, just scared the hell out of me when i saw a sparc binary being rsynced05:12
fabbioneAlinuxOS: yes05:12
AlinuxOSfabbione, mi fa piacere frattelone fabbione :)05:12
AlinuxOSmjg59, you mean if people add fonts to /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-bpg-georgian ?05:13
mjg59AlinuxOS: Yes05:14
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AlinuxOSnormally, Linux people (some people that I know)... adds only BPG_Glaho.ttf into /usr/share/fonts/truetype/05:14
AlinuxOSand other fonts in open office specific font location.05:15
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AlinuxOSI've asked to GPLise BPG author 3 fonts... but only  BPG_Glaho.ttf is well suted for GNOME or KDE.05:16
mjg59AlinuxOS: No, both are suitable.05:16
mjg59Uh, all.05:16
mjg59You want a monospaced Georgian font for the terminal.05:16
AlinuxOSmjg59, yes I know, but spaces in others are ugly.05:16
mjg59Just fix the fontconfig setup.05:16
mjg59Don't try to work around it. Don't split things up into separate packages. Just fix the thing that is actually causing the problem.05:17
AlinuxOSmjg59, ok, for example I've fixed locally this problem, howto make this thinks automatic for other people that will use georgian language in interface ?05:17
AlinuxOSwill they do this difficult thing manually?05:18
CarlFKKamion: debian-installer - okee dokee05:20
AlinuxOSmjg59, monospaced georgian font dosen't exist in georgian yet... some friends are making them... that's why I can't start to translate debian-installer to05:21
AlinuxOSto add georgian into main installation.05:21
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sivangdoes anybody know what phpmyadmin depends on apache2-prefork and its dependency list wants to remove apach2-worker??05:23
fabbionesivang: php5 is not thread safe05:24
fabbioneso it pulls in php5 and -prefork05:24
mjg59AlinuxOS: There's a monospaced georgian font in that package!05:25
sivangfabbione: ah, bummer05:25
mjg59AlinuxOS: The way to make it work for everyone is to fix the fontconfig setup05:25
AlinuxOSmjg59, which one ? ???05:25
AlinuxOSmjg59, I will fight with fontconfig! :)05:26
AlinuxOSwhichone is monospaced font ? :)05:26
AlinuxOSmjg59, ?05:26
mjg59AlinuxOS: "BPG Courier"05:26
AlinuxOSmjg59, with this font will I see files and directories into georgian ?05:28
AlinuxOSeven if I don't start X ?05:28
mjg59AlinuxOS: No. It's a truetype font,.05:28
mjg59The console requires bitmap ones05:28
AlinuxOSBPG_Glaho.ttf works great for X05:29
mjg59Not in a terminal, it doesn;t05:30
mjg59Like gnome-terminal05:30
mjg59That needs BPG courier05:30
AlinuxOSmjg59, :)05:30
AlinuxOSI'll show you a screenshot :)05:30
AlinuxOSI'll write you name in terminal :)05:31
mjg59BPG-Glaho is not useful in gnome-terminal. It's not a monospaced font.05:31
pittiAlinuxOS: ah, it seems you use the standard fixed font in the terminal then05:35
AlinuxOSpitti, ? ;)05:36
diemanarugh. someone wants to buy 5 machines with a xgi chipset in them for video05:36
pittiAlinuxOS: I only see latin chars in your terminal (however, loading is very slow, I only see the first 20% of the pic)05:36
AlinuxOSpitti, when I even grep georgian strings it works05:36
AlinuxOSpitti, refresh please.05:37
mjg59AlinuxOS: Glaho is not a monospaced font. It is therefore not a sensible font to use in a terminal. It'll /work/, it'll just be ugly.05:38
mjg59So we have to ship Courier05:38
mjg59Which means we have to fix the fontconfig configuration05:38
AlinuxOSpitti, it works even when I grep  georgian text.05:38
mjg59(If I have to point this out again, I'm going to scream)05:39
AlinuxOSmjg59, :) Oooops :)05:39
AlinuxOSok ok ok05:39
AlinuxOSWe Will Fix fontconfig! :)05:39
diemani dont even understand fontconfig05:40
diemanand ive got a resonable grasp of how lots of things work under debian/ubuntu05:40
diemanoh no, im confusing that with defoma05:41
diemanwhich seems like another scary mess05:41
AlinuxOSmjg59,I'm sorry , sometimes I think that there is more easy methods... but you must consider that I'm newbie ;) so don't be angry with me :)05:41
AlinuxOSpitti, has some experience with me.... sometmes he even don't understands me 05:42
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AlinuxOSdieman, :) I'm not even a programmer :)05:43
AlinuxOSso you can understand that I have many problems..05:43
trappisthrm.  georgian is pretty.05:43
AlinuxOSand most problems has technique refference.05:43
mjg59AlinuxOS: When you type your name, look how there's a large gap between the first character and the second character05:43
mjg59That's why you need Courier05:43
AlinuxOSI have no base, to build then 05:43
AlinuxOSother lanaguages have their standarts..and05:44
AlinuxOSpeople simply translate into rosetta.05:44
AlinuxOSbut with georgian thing are more complicated..05:44
mantiena-baltixdoko, maybe you are online ?05:45
AlinuxOSmjg59, everything is clear, thank you for your time..05:49
AlinuxOSyou've right...there is ugly spaces between charachters.05:49
AlinuxOSmjg59, be sure that when there will 100% GNOME translated into my native language...05:49
AlinuxOSyour and pitti's name will be written in gold on Georgian Gnome's project site! :)05:50
AlinuxOSthank you for everything...and sorry me05:50
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dokomantiena-baltix: here05:53
AlinuxOStrappist, grazie per il complimento :) Si, la mia lingua  bella da scrivere :) per c' un casino da risolvere prima :)05:53
pittiAlinuxOS: English spoken here05:54
mantiena-baltixdoko, could you look at my post in #debian-oo channel or I should copy-paste here ?05:55
AlinuxOSok, translation: thank you for appreciating , Yes, my language is beautiful to write, but there is too much problems to solve before :)05:55
dokomantiena-baltix: is it Ubuntu related?05:56
mantiena-baltixdoko, yes, you told me yesterday where are latest OpenOffice.org 2.0.2rc sources for Ubuntu and I tried to compile them this night05:58
mantiena-baltixOn Ubuntu Breezy (with backported needed build-deps)05:58
mantiena-baltixbut after ~10 hours I got an error :(05:59
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mantiena-baltixdoko, so, maybe you can help my to find the problem, why OpenOffice 2.0.2rc doesn06:06
mantiena-baltixdoesn't compile on my system06:06
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elmois network manager known to be broken in dapper atm?06:15
pittithe daemon is pretty crashy for me, but the applet works fine06:15
pittiwhat do you mean in particular?06:15
elmohmb just upgraded and the applet is not appearing06:18
seb128run nm-applet06:19
seb128the applet is started with the session06:19
elmono such command06:19
seb128install nm-applet binary package06:19
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elmothat's not part of ubuntu-desktop?06:20
Kamionnor is network-manager ...06:20
seb128that's not good enough for desktop06:20
seb128we only ship it by default on the liveCD atm06:20
elmooh, ok, guess sabdfl installed it then06:21
elmothe low disk space thing could do with some smarts to not whine about recovery partitions06:21
dokomantiena-baltix: sorry, no time for a breezy backport at the moment. you certainly will have to adjust some ooo-build patches06:22
sabdflelmo: yes, i installed it manually here06:22
elmosabdfl: nah, I mean on hmb's machine06:22
sabdflyes, same06:22
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DizietWell, here goes, let's see if this Xen thing boots.06:24
elmoLOL, 'killall NetworkManager' takes out the gnome-power-manager applet06:24
mantiena-baltixdoko, I think this problem is very simple - openoffice doesn't find headers from libnss-dev packages during compilation of xmlsecurity subproject06:25
mantiena-baltixI got few errors like this:06:25
mantiena-baltixIn file included from /tmp/buildd/openoffice.org-2.0.1oob680m4/ooo-build/build/oob680-m4/xmlsecurity/source/xmlsec/nss/securityenvironment_nssimpl.cxx:41:06:25
mantiena-baltix/tmp/buildd/openoffice.org-2.0.1oob680m4/ooo-build/build/oob680-m4/xmlsecurity/source/xmlsec/nss/securityenvironment_nssimpl.hxx:95:22: error: pk11func.h: No such file or directory06:25
DizietApparently not.06:25
mantiena-baltixdoko, but pk11func.h is in libnss-dev and libnss-dev is spedified in buid-deps. pbuider installs this package automaticallty, but it seems during compilation openoffice doesn't find there headers :(06:26
pittimdz: I have two bug fixes in what will become pmount 0.9.8, plus updated translations from Rosetta. Ok for me to upload this?06:28
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pittimdz: (very pathological case of UVF, though)06:28
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pitticarlos: ping06:32
dokomantiena-baltix: you to make sure that config_office/configure finds the correct headers06:33
mdzpitti: in any case where you are upstream, the version number is irrelevant so long as you are making changes appropriate for the freeze state06:33
pittimdz: yes, I would take the two bug fixes anyway06:34
pittimdz: oh, and one is already there as a patch from mjg5906:34
pittialright, thanks06:34
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AlinuxOSmjg59, here ?06:38
AlinuxOS:) I understand font choosing criterium06:38
AlinuxOSmaybe it will help to solve this problem06:39
ploumseb128: you remember the bug I told you about "no mouse click"06:39
mantiena-baltixdoko, btw, should xmlsecurity subproject build in 2.0.2rc ? It seems now we use external xmlsec1 libraries from Ubuntu, they are in build-deps06:39
ploumI have it in a xnest-window06:39
ploumdo you think that I can do something to see where the problem is ?06:39
diemanwhoa, i didn't know cdimage.ubuntu.com has a vmware image handy06:39
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pittibah, this new firefox 'just open without asking' behaviour is awful06:43
Dizietpitti: Thanks for your feedback.  Post it to ubuntu-devel.  I will put it back if everyone hates it, I promise.06:45
pittioh, sorry, wasn't meant as a blame06:46
DizietOriginally I did it because (a) it seemed sane to me and (b) DefaultApplicationsFirefox said so and (c) sabdfl wanted it too.06:46
pittiit just breaks clicking on links in any application06:46
DizietNo, no, that's fine, do grumble.  Feedback is good.06:46
pittiDiziet: hmm, (c) is a compelling reason :)06:46
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sabdflpitti: how?06:46
DizietBut perhaps I should make it only do it in ff and not elsewhere ?  All things are possible.06:46
seb128ploum: no real idea on that, nop06:47
pittiDiziet: whenever I encounter an URL to a tarball in my mutt, xchat, or whereever, I usually want to download the file06:47
pittisabdfl: ^06:47
seb128same for me06:47
sabdflpitti: set your default behaviour to be different, then06:47
seb128I download all the tarball from evo06:47
seb128now I need to open the browser06:47
pittisome hours ago I wanted to download a different file type, and nothing happened at all, I jsut got an empty tab06:47
seb128stop the download, go to the folder and right click06:47
sabdflhmm... so the problem is that it is opening up a tarball viewer?06:48
seb128it opens file-roller for me yep06:48
pittisabdfl: ... or nothing at all06:48
seb128but I want to package the new tarball, not to browse it, so usually I just save it on the desktop06:48
sabdflhmm. fair enough, that's not good06:48
DizietOne alternative to the current thing would be to list explicitly the content-types that should be opened immediately.06:49
=== pitti tries to remember the file type that caused to just produce an empty tab
mdzseb128: does file-roller not let you save a copy of the file?06:49
sabdflbut i suspect that you can change the default behaviour yourself for specific types, right?06:49
mdzevince does that, it's nice06:49
pittisabdfl: I guess so06:49
Dizietsabdfl: Yes, but not via the UI.  You have to mess in about:config.06:49
sabdflDiziet: really? in thunderbird there's a nice prefs page for it06:49
ploumin epiphany too06:49
DizietThere's View & Edit Actions I suppose.06:50
seb128mdz: there is "save as", yep, but I was not sure if it was going to make a new .tar.gz and maybe changing the md5 from upstream ... I should try :)06:50
DizietBut you still have to know the mime type.06:50
DizietSave as should save it.06:50
mdzseb128: yeah, it would probably repack it06:50
sabdflEdit->Preferences->Downloads->View & Edit Actions06:50
dholbachedit -> preferences -> downloads -> view and edit actions?06:50
seb128ploum: epiphany is broken by that change06:50
sabdflsnap snap snap06:50
seb128the new pref is unknow by the other browsers06:51
=== dholbach pets the poor epiphany
DizietI don't see why having the pref unknown by the other browsers is per se a problem.06:51
DizietWhat you mean, surely, is that the new behaviour is a problem.06:51
ploumseb128: indeed. That's what I tried to say06:51
seb128Diziet: because that breaks them until we teach them about the pref and how to use it06:52
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Dizietseb128: Why does it break them ?06:52
DizietI mean, I understand that it breaks epiphany because it already has a different pref for the same thing and a GUI to set it.06:52
DizietBut why would it break some more naive embedder ?06:53
seb128because epiphany expects standard firefox behaviour06:53
seb128and acts according to that06:53
seb128I've not said it breaks every embedder06:53
seb128but it breaks galeon too the same way06:53
DizietBecause galeon also has a pref for the same thing ?06:53
DizietThat is, a different pref for the same thing.06:54
DizietSo they're really working around the deficiency in gecko, aren't they ?06:54
DizietMaybe the right thing would be to push this new pref upstream and make galeon and epiphany use/set it instead of their own ?06:54
seb128sort of yep06:54
DizietI'm not sure we have enough of a grip on the situation for that.  I mean really, that I have enough of a grip on the situation.06:55
DizietSo is there code in g. and ep. that mirrors the code in gecko ?06:55
seb128we just have to consider that having a distro specific way is an issue for upstream06:55
seb128and force us to patch others packages too06:55
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DizietIt's definitely a problem if we have to patch naive embedders (of which there are several?  yelp etc.)06:56
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seb128yelp just use gecko for rendering, that should be fine06:56
DizietBut if it's just a couple who've already added complex wart on top of the gecko lack-of-feature then I don't feel so bad about that.06:56
seb128I only knows about epiphany and galeon beeing broken by the change atm06:57
DizietAs it happens yelp never triggers this because the help files never have any externally handled content types.06:57
seb128and yelp has no option for that06:57
seb128so it would just follow firefox behaviour06:57
DizietRight, so if it did have any such types it would DTRT.06:57
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DizietSo it sounds like having g. and ep. override the gecko pref would be sufficient.06:57
DizietI think that's the correct workaround for now.06:58
seb128but upstream is not wanting to make special case for every distro around doing his custom hack06:58
DizietI shall try a bit harder to punt my patch upstream.  I sent it to the Debian people with a note saying `dunno if you want this' but I haven't sent it directly upstream yet.06:58
seb128that would be nice06:58
Dizietseb128: So we make the pref change in Ubuntu.  We have facilities for that, don't we ?06:59
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seb128if the feature goes upstream that's better for everybody06:59
DizietYes, certainly, which is why we should try to get it upstream.  But in the meantime we have to solve our Ubuntu problem.06:59
seb128we can patch epiphany/galeon, some people will still doing local builds for testing stuff, or because they jhbuild GNOME, or other and bug upstream but that's not a big deal07:00
DizietSo, FYI, in case you didn't know, the pref is browser.helperApps.defaultNoAsk.openFile and you just need to set it to false.07:00
seb128I'll patch epiphany and galeon so07:00
DizietCan I get you to write up a mail to ubuntu-devel CC relevant people explaining this decision ?07:00
DizietOr should I do that ?07:00
seb128do we need to use the ML where we have a laucnhpad bug with revelant people Cced?07:01
DizietWe should have some record of it so that in 6 months' time we're not "err, dunno, I remember there was a reason, um".07:01
seb128I've already pointed the bug on the list07:01
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DizietI think a list posting is a lot more findable than an LP bug.  You could mail it to both.07:01
seb128I've already mailed the list friday pointing to the issue and the launchpad bug about it07:02
Diziet(more findable> hopefully LP's searching will improve but for now it's a bit of a swamp.)07:02
DizietI'm sure one nice clear coherent mail won't upset anyone.07:02
seb128but I've no objection to follow on the list07:02
DizietDo CC the bug too of course.07:02
DizietThere's nothing wrong with a crosspost between list and bug.07:02
seb128ah right, we can do that with launchpad :)07:02
seb128I'm used to bugzilla07:03
Diziet(Not sure if LP will cope properly but we can fix things up if the mails go to the wrong places.)07:03
Diziet(Probably the only problem is that the copies coming via LP will have the headers mangled so you can't tell the crosspost, so mention it in the body of your mail.)07:03
AmaranthWouldn't it be better to have it default to off and have a post-install (or profile creation, whatever) turn it on?07:05
DizietI wanted to enable it for existing profiles.07:05
Amaranthmake it an upgrade note?07:06
pittiseb128, Diziet: FWIW, the 'Save as' in file-roller is disabled when I open a tar.gz URL from a terminal07:06
Amaranthyou're breaking the platform so you can save upgraders a little hassle07:06
DizietI don't think I am breaking the platform.07:06
Kamionif it's broken, then it's equally so for upgraders and fresh-installers; this is a *good* thing07:07
DizietI'm breaking some rather hacky extra features added on top of the gecko builtin UI.07:07
Kamionit means we don't miss out on hearing about problems because only fresh-installers notice07:07
DizietBy as far as we know only two very complex embedders.07:07
seb128pitti: weird, it works when I open one from nautilus here07:07
AmaranthIs it possible for someone to distribute a binary-only app that uses the gecko in Ubuntu (but isn't Ubuntu specific)?07:08
Kamionmvo: InstallProgress.waitChild() spins rather unpleasantly on os.waitpid()07:08
seb128Amaranth: non patched build expecting the upstream behaviour will be screwed if that's what we ask07:08
Dizietamaranth: Yes, and I think those apps should work just fine unless they try to second-guess the external content type dialogue (read: unless they try to fix the bug I'm fixing here).07:09
AmaranthYes, that's what I'm asking.07:09
Kamionmvo: it would be nice if it only tried to waitpid on receipt of SIGCHLD, or at least slept a bit between calls, or something ...07:09
DizietIt's just the usual case that if you fix a bug in a more-core place you break workarounds accreted elsewhere.07:09
Kamionthe first would be ideal but is obviously more fiddly07:09
AmaranthDiziet: Got a bug open upstream with the patch? I'd like to follow it.07:09
=== Kamion has a 26MB strace to wade through now
Dizietamaranth: No, and I'm trying to fight grub and Xen today instead of getting sucked into ff again but please email me and I'll add you to the CC when I file it.07:10
ogra_Diziet, there is no /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/xpidl anymore ? 07:13
DizietIt's in /usr/lib/firefox now.07:14
DizietWhy ?07:14
ogra_i'm just trying to make a testbuild of vlc, it fails searching for it ...07:15
KamionSometimes I feel as if I spend my entire life plumbing bits of debconf together.07:15
DizietDo you know why it's looking there ?07:15
ogra_(needed for the plugin it seems)07:15
DizietIt's probably some remnant /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox reference in some package file or .pc or something.07:15
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ogra_Diziet, no idea ... i added four lines to the screensaver handling :) 07:16
DizietIf you can find out where it's getting that path from and it's in one of the firefox packages do file a bug and I'll fix it.07:16
Diziet:-)  Sorry I made your program bitrot ...07:16
ogra_might simply be an old build ...07:16
ogra_its from new years eve07:16
Kamionfantastic post about the lack of configuration files for PCMCIA in the new world order07:18
DizietFF build from NYE ?  That is very old.07:18
ogra_ah, the prob was that xpidl is in firefox, but only -dev was in the build-deps :)07:22
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Kamionpitti: that culmus upload appears to be wrong07:28
Kamionpitti: here's the diff for dapper:07:28
Kamionpitti: but here's the diff for breezy:07:29
Kamionspot the difference07:29
Kamionsivang: ^--07:29
dholbachthere's a change for imake pending which will make a good bunch of paths sane again (but that's dapper+1 material, as we have no idea of the amounts of bits shuffled around)07:30
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fabbionedholbach: dude.. didn't we agree to try to change it locally and build a set of packages on top of it?07:31
fabbionedholbach: that's what we discussed at the Hug Day07:31
dholbachIf you read again, I said "dapper+1" :)07:32
fabbionedholbach: yes, but perhaps we could have fixed for dapper :)07:32
fabbionewe are still in time to do it i think07:32
=== fabbione rants to the MOTU's face ;)
dholbachi'm not sure how happy this will make us07:32
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Kamionwhoa, espresso managed to install language packs07:33
=== ogra_ applauds
Kamionalthough no cancel button for some reason07:34
fabbionedholbach: neither am I, that's why i suggested to take a sample (if not all) pkgs that B-D on imake and rebuild + debdiff :)07:34
dholbachfabbione: I test-built 2 or 3 packages and that was enough for me to say "next release"07:34
fabbionedholbach: ehehe ok07:35
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Dizietogra_: -dev should have a dep on firefox, I think.07:39
ogra_hmm, true07:40
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mammadorihi all, I know about casper, squashfs and unionfs but I would like to study the daily build scripts for ubuntu-live, but I cannot find where they lies, any hint?07:40
KamionI'm afraid they've never been published anywhere outside our buildds07:41
Dizietogra_: I've added a note to my todo list.07:41
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Kamionthey're pretty specific to Ubuntu of course, most of the actual hard work they do is debootstrap + install ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-live + nasty custom hacks07:41
ogra_great, thanks :)07:42
Dizietkamion: Uh ?  `scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable'07:42
mammadoriKamion: I'm helping debian-live subproject, could I access some way these buildd scripts?07:42
Kamionactually creating the filesystem is just mksquashfs07:42
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KamionDiziet: the live CD image almost certainly contains both GPLed and GPL-incompatible material so I doubt the whole is covered by the GPL ... but I agree it should be public anyway07:43
Kamionsabdfl: ^--07:43
DizietAhm.  I don't really have time now for this conversation, unfortunately.07:44
DizietI'm supposed to be in town at 1900.07:44
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mammadoriKamion: nice, tnx, we should reinvent the wheel perhaps :-), we are going on hacking the casper tool and the cdd system, I would like to help ubuntu by helping debian (low level work), tnx anyway07:44
Kamionmammadori: you'll need to make sure to install casper, run update-initramfs and fish out the initrd produced by that07:45
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Kamioncolin.watson@canonical.com--2005/debian-cd--ubuntu--0 at http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/archives/colin.watson@canonical.com--2005 includes some hacks to get the initrd onto the CD image, although that's the easy bit07:46
Kamionyou'll probably also want to install xresprobe and laptop-detect in the live filesystem to get X autoconfiguration; but that will vary quite a bit between Debian and Ubuntu, I imagine07:47
Kamiongrr @ readahead - please let my live CD boot in finite time, kthxbye07:49
comfreyanyone else seeing any issues with current dapper and gnome panel items not appearing?07:53
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comfreytomboy for example has stopped showing up in the panel.07:54
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elmooook, dapper _loses_ on this laptop07:54
comfreyas well as rythmbox.  all of the applets work fine.07:54
elmogot an IBM T42, where 2.6.15 fails to boot, says it can't find the root partition, boot messages show it finding the harddrive but not the partitions... any ideas?07:57
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comfreyelmo: live cd or post install?07:58
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elmopost upgrade from breezy07:58
Kamionmight be easiest to wait until Keybuk's around07:59
comfreyelmo: use grub cli to verify boot params07:59
elmoboot params are fine07:59
elmoI can boot breezy kernel into  single user07:59
fabbioneelmo: initrd07:59
elmohaven't tried multi, but assume it'll fail thanks to the new udev world order07:59
elmofabbione: how do you mean?07:59
fabbioneit's probably missing a module for the driver?07:59
Kamionthen it wouldn't find the drive surely08:00
elmofabbione: it can see the drive tho, just not the partitions08:00
elmoplus mdy has a t42 and dapper's kernel works for him08:00
AlinuxOSmdz, ping08:01
Mithrandirelmo: your partition layout might be slightly funky in a way which trips the kernel?08:02
AlinuxOSmdz, hello08:02
elmoMithrandir: yeah, I suspect it is08:02
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AlinuxOSwill georgian bpg font included in Dapper main ?08:02
jvwhow many fulltime canonical employees are there working on Ubuntu?08:02
AlinuxOSif not, there is no georgian font at all to support ka_GE locales.08:02
pittiAlinuxOS: yes, as soon as there is a proper font config08:03
pittijvw: 16ish08:03
AlinuxOSpitti, ;) 08:03
jvwpitti: thanks08:03
mdzjvw: why?08:03
Kamionthe current list is 15 I think08:04
fabbioneelmo: i would check the 2 initrds to see if they are different08:04
jvwmdz: DPL elections campaigning is on, and someone asks questions like "What do you think of Ubuntu"08:04
fabbioneelmo: and possibly if mdy is updated at the same level08:04
mdzjvw: yes, Raphael did I think08:04
jvwas one of the candidates, I'm of course answering...08:04
elmothat could be hard, mdy being the part timer he is, has left for the night08:04
elmoam I right in assuming breezy's kernel won't work with dapper?08:04
fabbioneelmo: it might...08:05
mdzelmo: I think udev may be fucked in that configuration08:05
mdzjvw: and?08:05
jvwmdz: well, I'm still composing it, best await the reply by mail I guess :)08:05
jvwmdz: btw, did you do anything with the poll results for maintainer-field yet? I said in some other mail I still wanted to prod someone, and that someone is you :)08:06
mdzjvw: I'm curious about why that particular piece of information was relevant to your opinion08:06
mdzjvw: yes, infinity is working on the implementation08:06
fabbionejvw: you running as DPL?? did your mother gave you permission to do so? :P08:07
=== fabbione pats young jvw
jvwit isn't relevant to my opinion, but I want to be factual in the statement that basicly says "It is good to have N people working fulltime on basicly what is rougly sid, or at least, close to it"08:07
AlinuxOSpitti, I was only asking generally, cause some georgian users are asking me howto install georgian fonts on Ubunts08:07
jvw(or so, I didn't finalize my exact statement yet)08:07
AlinuxOSthat's all :)08:08
jvwfabbione: dude! I'm young, but not *that* young :)08:08
jvwfabbione: there are people of my age having 3 children already08:08
jvw(in the US probably more)08:08
fabbionejvw: isn't underage sex punishable by law? :P08:09
fabbionejvw: congratulation for the run anyway.08:09
jvwmdz: what implementation will you choose? Just the 'winner', even though you noted it isn't probably the best solution?08:09
jvwfabbione: running isn't hard, being able to sign a mail is all it takes08:09
fabbionejvw: well running is always difficult.. not just to sign up ;)08:10
mdzjvw: something functionally equivalent to the winning option, using a more accurate name for the field08:10
jvwI see08:10
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Rique18hei people!08:14
Rique18good afternoon08:14
Rique18somebody can help me?08:14
Rique18we are creating a free radio in my town08:14
Rique18and want use free content to manage the radio08:14
Rique18somebody meet some linux distro for radios?08:15
elmomeh, breezy kernel boots, but not ipw2x00 love, I'm so dead08:19
Rique18elmo hi08:22
mjg59mdz: I'm going to nap for half an hour, I've set an alarm for the meeting08:24
mdzmjg59: see you then08:24
Rique18say me something08:24
Kamionwell, it's not really a particularly good channel for your question ...08:25
Kamionif Ubuntu isn't suitable for your needs, Googling for a more suitable distribution would probably be your best bet.08:25
Rique18Kamion thanks for helping08:26
Rique18Kamion do you meet the right channel or irc network?08:26
dholbachYou didn't quite say how anybody could help you - what you are looking for specifically - mailing ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com might be a better approach08:26
KamionRique18: no idea, sorry08:27
Kamionbut this channel is for the development of Ubuntu and is only appropriate if you're working on Ubuntu development08:28
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Rique18Kamion i understand08:32
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mvohm, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/5.10/release/ has only dvd images?08:41
janimoKamion, any eta on xfce main promotion, and cd build? thanks08:43
Riddellmvo: CDs are on http://releases.ubuntu.com/08:45
Kamionmvo: yes, it should really link to releases for the rest08:45
Kamionjanimo: erm, not yet, sorry, I'll try to look at it this week for you08:45
mvoaha, thanks08:46
janimoKamion, thanks08:46
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mammadorikamion: Tnx a lot for tips, you were invaluable, I'll watch your scripts (I miss enter key 1 hour ago.... dinner caught me :-) )08:59
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Treenakselmo: who? what? where? why?09:01
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elmo(for anyone following along at home, my problem was #32123, but I didn't get a backup of the broken initrd.img)09:07
CarlFKso infinity has passed?!09:08
CarlFKand I missed it.09:08
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sivang58/152 0:09:2809:17
sivanggo bzr go!09:17
=== sivang pushes bzr
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sivangyes, you are almos there, just a little bit more09:20
sivangcopy  97/152 0:04:0009:20
mvosivang: you sound so excited. is this your first push?09:23
sivangmvo: ehehe09:24
pittisivang: looking at this number, you will rather be annoyed, I guess09:24
sivangmvo: actually it's a re-branch... I have diverted accidently so I need to check/merge09:24
pittisivang: the very first push to a remote site should still better be done with tar/scp/untar09:24
=== pitti went back to the rsync push for some projects
sivangpushes are a bit quikcer. 09:25
tsengi need to try the new push code09:25
sivangwell, from the crappy net connection I have here, sftp works finr for the pushes, I might need to switch back to rsync for the pulling09:26
sivangmjg59: I tried recompiling with --with-rgb-path, but compilation breaks for me at some point. are there any dependenices that are not specified in the source control file?09:27
sivangmjg59: (talking about pkg:xserver-xgl)09:28
mgalvinnot really a devel question, but might anyone know the size in GB of the complete package archive at archive.ubuntu.com for all archs and ports, etc...?09:28
sivangyay, it finshed09:31
mjg59sivang: There should be no extra dependencies, otherwise it wouldn't get built by the buildds09:32
sivangmjg59: I thought about it, and couldn't get why it fails on my machine...I think it said it was missing some utility which names was in CAPS, not sure. I will recheck and report back. Are you ware of the emacs problem? (unkonw color err)09:34
mjg59Yes, it's because of the lacking rgb.txt09:35
sivangmjg59: where do you reckon it expects it? I tried putting it for him in all possilbe locations. (/usr/.. /etc/.. etc)09:36
mjg59It wants it in /usr/share, I believe09:36
LaserJockmgalvin: I think I asked that questions once, seemed like the guess was somewhere around 20 GB, but I could be way off.09:37
sivangmjg59: will be review a diff package I will create for adding the necessary configure options to debian/rules and upload if appropriate?09:38
mgalvinLaserJock: thanks, for the time being i may try to mirror it myself to get an acurate number09:39
LaserJockmgalvin: yikes09:39
mgalvinwell i need to know, so worth the effort for now :)09:40
mjg59sivang: If it works, yes09:40
mgalvinLaserJock: hopefully my ISP doesn't get too mad ;)09:41
LaserJockmgalvin: I just hope you have a good connection ;-)09:42
mgalvinLaserJock: i get around 500-700kB/s on a cable connection so it should not take *too* long09:44
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mvodoes anyone mind if I upload a new ubuntu-meta?09:54
ogramvo, any changes for edubuntu-meta i'd miss ?09:55
mvoogra: no idea, I don't know a lot about edubuntu ... 09:56
ograwhats changed in ubuntu-meta ?09:56
sivangmjg59: btw, why do you ship the configure results in the source package? (isn't it better to leave it un configure'd, so when changes are introduced in the rules file, those will menifest in the resulting auto foo with a need for a manual run?) 09:57
mvoogra: I can put the changes on a pastebin, give me a bit09:57
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sivangmjg59: s/with/without/09:57
ogramvo, only if they differ much with my edubuntu-meta upload from today09:57
dholbachogra: you should be able to tell by the pastebin, no?09:59
ogradholbach, sure, i but looking aat the mail on -chqanges would be less work for mvo :)09:59
dholbachi think not10:00
mjg59sivang: Hm. make distclean ought to get rid of them, so I'm confused as to how they would end up in there.10:00
mvoKamion: could gdebi get promotion to main please?10:01
reggaemanumjg59, hello, is it planified to upgrade xgl and compiz packages (and adding libsvg and libsvg-cairo)? 10:01
mvoogra: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/955410:02
mjg59reggaemanu: Not right now, Xgl requires CVS mesa10:02
ogramvo, thats contained in my upload already, thanks10:02
mvoogra: cheers, gdebi is waiting for promotion, once it's in main, that is added to the list as well10:03
mjg59I'll look into compiz10:03
reggaemanumjg59, ok, and just a modified xgl package with rgbpath set ?10:03
ogramvo, you had that here too ...10:03
sivangmjg59: make distclean failes for me with a fresh src I just grabbed. http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/955510:04
mjg59sivang: Uhm. In that case, it's not configured.10:04
ogramvo, here in blankenheim in the list of updates when i updated edubuntu-meta ...10:05
mvoogra: aha, ok10:06
mvoogra: sorry for being slow, it's late here :)10:06
ograhaha 10:06
ogranot here 10:06
mvoI though so :-D10:07
sivangmjg59: this is what I get when autogen'ing it, do I need to switch the automake version? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/955610:11
mjg59Why are you autogening it?10:12
Kamionmvo: erm, sorry, I'm just here really briefly and don't expect to be around when the publisher next finishes (which is when my window opens for promotions)10:12
mjg59sivang: You need CVS X build macros to be able to do that10:13
Kamionmvo: gdebi's lacking a main inclusion report; doesn't it need one, or did mdz exempt it?10:13
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mdzKamion: I didn't, but it shouldn't need much more than a second pair of eyes10:14
Kamionif pitti's looked at it already, that's enough for me, I just don't remember whether he has or not10:15
sistpotyelmo: please sync bum (2.1.5-1) from unstable, no ubuntu specific changes present. thx.10:16
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mvoKamion: I was told we don't need them for apps we have written ourselfs, no?10:22
mvoKamion: I can ask pitti to have a look first of course10:22
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LaserJockmjg59: ping?10:30
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mjg59LaserJock: Hi10:33
LaserJockmjg59: do you much experience with licenses, I was searching debian-legal and your name popped up10:35
mjg59LaserJock: Some, yeah10:35
LaserJockmjg59: I'm particularly interested in the Common Public License10:35
LaserJockand it's DFSGness10:35
mjg59LaserJock: I believe it's fine10:36
BurgworkLaserJock, is that the IBM one?10:36
LaserJockmjg59: is there a website that lists DFSG free licenses, I tried doing some googling but I'm not quite sure what I'm looking for exactly10:37
mjg59LaserJock: There isn't, no10:38
sivangdoes anyone know if pmount has something close to a python api to be able to mount from python applications?10:38
LaserJockmjg59: ok, that's fine. I'm just trying to get a package moved from multiverse to universe and I wanted to sound somewhat intelligent when I emailed elmo10:38
LaserJockBurgwork: something like that, I'm not sure10:39
sivangor, otherwise I just need to subprocess.call() it?10:43
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Kamionmvo: I've promoted gdebi now; will be available in an hour or so11:25
mvoKamion: cool, thanks a lot11:25
Kamionas you say, we wrote it ourselves, pitti can look over it later if need be11:25
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elmomvo: does the dist-upgrade tool force gnome debconf?11:29
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elmomvo: I just had mine error out because postgres-* was trying to display a not via gnome debconf, but gnome libraries weren't in a usable state11:30
elmoa note too11:30
Kamiondebconf's gnome frontend should generally fall back itself, but there was a bug in lib{glib,gtk}-perl (can't remember which) in dapper a while ago that meant it couldn't11:32
kokemvo: I think I have asked this a hundred of times, but I always forgot... where is the current repo of update-manager??11:32
mvoelmo: yes, it forces it. I got a bugreport about that (gnome debconf not usable)  before11:32
mvokoke: haha, no problem. it's http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/bzr/update-manager--dapper/ for the current dapper version11:33
mvoand http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/bzr/update-manager--mvo/ for the current devel tree. that one contains some ui fixesin the software-properties window, that may be too risky for dapper. I will discuss that at the ui sprint11:34
mvoelmo: it's now on my MUSTFIX list 11:34
mvoelmo: did the upgrade-tool otherwise worked?11:34
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mvokoke: do you plean to hack on it (again)? that would be wonderful :)11:36
kokemvo: I have some ideas :)11:37
kokeactually not mine. I've been using osx for some time and I like their update system11:37
elmomvo: apart from the career-destroying initrd SNAFU, yeah, but I doubt that's update-manager's problem11:38
mvoelmo: I like to blame the packages for any failures :P11:38
mvokoke: nice, I'm looking forward for cool stuff from you :)11:39
elmohmm, this new font or whatever is messing with my brain11:39
elmoI assume the lack of pretty cursors is a known thing?11:39
=== mvo wonders if a bzr from breezy can get a current bzr tree
tsengelmo: yeah its been that way for some time11:40
tsengelmo: if you just give it a poke in system - prefs - mouse - pointers, its back11:40
ajmitch_mvo: I think it should, still11:40
ajmitch_hello tseng 11:40
tsenghey andrew11:40
mvoajmitch_: yes it does. pretty amazing stuff that bzr (I use 0.1.1 to get the archive)11:41
kokemvo: an interesting thing from osx. Instead of download updates in the background, the option is to download important (security, I presume) updates in the background11:41
ajmitch_mvo: I've been using it a lot lately, very happy with it :)11:41
tsengajmitch_: are you using push now?11:41
ajmitch_tseng: currently not, though I've used it in the past11:42
mvoajmitch_: yes, I'm pretty happy with it as well. I switched synaptic over recently. and once that stupid baz-import for apt finises that one will be bzr too11:42
kokemvo: another one is to group non-important updates in a combined update (like 'Ubuntu 6.X update 2006-06-12')11:42
Ubugtuubuntu bug 6 in gdb "gdb package contains non-free GNU FDL documentation" [Normal,Resolved: notwarty]  http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=611:42
ajmitch_mvo: sadly the selinux debian packaging will be using arch, so I think I'll have to use baz2bzr to stay sane11:42
mvokoke: oh, interessting. we will have a "install security upgrades" for dapper, but that not silently download only those11:42
kokeand have a small translated changelog 11:42
tsengajmitch_: id almost rather upstreams use svn over baz11:43
tsengajmitch_: i feel bad saying that.11:43
mvokoke: another nice idea. only this aggregation makes translated changelogs feasbile IMHO11:44
mvootherwise it is too much work11:44
mvofor the translators11:44
=== mvo prepares for bedtime
kokeyep, also the description can be done while fixing the package to be ready when uploading it11:44
sabdflmjg59: your shiny new toy is in elmo's hands11:46
kokemvo: ok, I'll tell you more11:48
kokemvo: btw, what's that ui sprint thing?11:48
sabdflmjg59: i'm in the market for a new laptop, x60 is delayed till March 21st, any suggestions for stuff you don't have and would like to test?11:48
sivangsabdfl: what kind of toy is that? :-)11:49
mvokoke: it's about a get-togehter for polishing the UI for dapper. final touches, that kind of stuff11:49
mjg59sabdfl: Rock. Any chance of getting it sent up here?11:49
sivangah , cool11:49
mvokoke: please tell me tomorrow, I'm already half asleep :)11:50
mjg59sabdfl: March 21st? Suck. A Core Duo machine of some sort would be good.11:50
kokemvo: ok, I have lots of comments :)11:50
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sabdflmjg59: sure, just ask elmo for it, and can we have it back for the office please?11:50
mjg59sabdfl: Indeed11:50
mvokoke: cool, that is *good* :)11:50
sivangmvo: ui polish sprint? where?11:51
mjg59sabdfl: Dell are shipping the Inspiron 9400, I'm not sure if any of the other major manufacturers have one out yet11:51
elmoI can't find any from HP or Sony, FWIW11:51
sabdflsony has them. in japan.11:51
sabdflwould have bought one but the keyboard was bake-your-noodle material11:52
elmomjg59: I assume cvd has your shipping details?11:52
kokesabdfl: you can remap it if you know the layout :)11:53
kokeit's also good for improve typing speed11:53
mjg59elmo: Yup11:53
sabdflmjg59: how predictable are the Windows keys on keyboards and laptops?11:53
mjg59sabdfl: In what way?11:54
mjg59They always generate the same scancodes11:54
sabdflit would be nice if we could map them to fire up the K menu, or the G applications menu11:54
mjg59Oh, I see what you mean11:54
=== sivang nods
sabdflnice, that is, for windows users11:54
ograthats trivial ...11:54
Burgworksabdfl, it would be also nice to map some of the other windowskey+key codes as well11:54
sabdflBurgwork: i don't know them... tell?11:55
Burgworksabdfl, ie, if you simply press and release the windows key, you get the start menu, but if you hold it, you can use it like a ctrl or alt11:55
mjg59sabdfl: In Gnome, just set the "Show the panel menu" shortcut to that11:55
ajmitch_win+m for minimise all, for example11:55
Burgworksuch as W+e launches explorer and w+r for the run command11:55
ogractrl-alt-del for the system-monitor ?11:55
Burgworkw+l for locking the screen11:55
LaserJockI've got an Intel iMac if anybody needs some testing11:56
tsengLaserJock: Kamion seemed somewhat interested, but i doubt its much good to him remotely, at this stage11:56
LaserJocktseng: hmm, I don't think the boss would let me send it to him ;-)11:57
sabdflLaserJock: will you test the Flight 5 CD on it?11:57
LaserJocksabdfl: I will if it works ;-)11:57
tsengsabdfl: flight 5 wont be very useful afaik11:57
sabdflFlight 6 perhaps11:57
mjg59You can't boot iso9660 CDs on them11:57
tsengsomeone will have to get a box at canonical and do the dirty work of hacking elilo11:58
tsengand vesafb11:58
mjg59It'll have to be a separate CD image for Dapper, for +1 we can probably manage a CD that'll do both11:58
LaserJocksabdfl: if you guys get Ubuntu to work on macintels and all the i386 stuff works then you'll doing great. Fink and darwin ports are really giving me troubles11:58
mjg59sabdfl: Ok, Dell claim to be shipping the 9400 in the UK. It's a Centrino Duo platform, so it's pretty similar to the new Thinkpads.11:59

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