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[01:27] <bluefoxicy> does anyone think that the Linux kernel mainline should have built-in memory compression for memory stress?
[01:28] <bluefoxicy> I did some test with Rodrigo's patch, tweaked it to be able to compress in larger blocks
[01:29] <bluefoxicy> using the WK4x4 and WKdm compression algorithms (lz0 I didn't like, it corrupted memory on occasion) I got 20% or so at 8k blocks
[01:29] <bluefoxicy> but with 16k blocks I averaged 35%, and with 32 I got 40%.  Beyond there, there wasn't much gain.
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[01:34] <airlied> just buy more RAM.. it's cheap...
[01:34] <airlied> or fix apps to not chew it all up..
[01:34] <airlied> I don't think the gain of in-memory compression is that majorly useful for most people..
=== airlied remembers win95 tools to do it..
[01:38] <bluefoxicy> airlied:  in-memory compression can get up to 40% memory gains on the compressed area.  If you allow typically 25% of memory to be in-memory compressed, this may be significant.
[01:40] <airlied> but what about the process using that memory?
[01:40] <bluefoxicy> For example, at 256M this allows 299M memory to be used; at 512M this allows 597M to be used; and at 1 gig this allows 1194M to be used.  This is an average of 170M per gigabyte.
[01:40] <airlied> it doesn't really...
[01:40] <bluefoxicy> the process using that memory would hit an invalid pagefault trying to access it
[01:40] <bluefoxicy> which would trigger decompression.
[01:40] <airlied> fi you are under memory pressure you are going to run out, unless you fix the problem..
[01:41] <bluefoxicy> This happens when the linux kernel swaps memory to disk as well; execpt that the the memory is retrieved from disk instead of decompressed.
[01:41] <bluefoxicy> You won't necessarily run out under memory pressure
[01:41] <bluefoxicy> Linux is ALWAYS under memory pressure; disk cache typically uses whatever programs don't
[01:41] <airlied> I'm just not seeing the advantages outweighing the complexity of it..
[01:42] <bluefoxicy> If you have ample memory already, then the system just becomes faster, as it can simply compress disk cache until memory pressure increases enough to dump it.
[01:42] <bluefoxicy> I'm currently thinking of liveCDs, although database applications may benefit largely as well.
[01:43] <bluefoxicy> LiveCDs may run on systems without swap.  While you may say it is "nice" to try to use less than 25% for memory compression, without swap memory pressure suddenly results in one of two things:  OOM kills or eating more memory for compressed cache
[01:43] <airlied> but if I'm running a firefox and an openoffice and I've got no RAM left I don't think I'll be able to do much compression ...
[01:43] <bluefoxicy> A system with 256M of memory runs somewhat slow on a LiveCD.  There is a LOT of reading from the CD, because disk cache is constantly invalidated.
[01:44] <bluefoxicy> airlied:  remember I'm talking about compressing 32K blocks.  The WK4x4 algorithm in Rodrigo CAstro's patch used about 128K of memory for this (it errantly over-allocated 300k, which it didn't use)
[01:47] <bluefoxicy> at any rate, given severe pressure (growing disk cache, growing program memory) and no swap, a livecd system may compensate by compressing memory and using up to 90% of memory for a compressed store.  This may slow programs down by perhaps 10% between pagefaults and decompression routines (remember we're spending a fraction of a millisecond decompressing a compressed 32k block or vice versa)
[01:47] <airlied> well I'll remain sceptical that the good outweights the bad... and I doubt it'll turn up in mainline any time soon..
[01:47] <bluefoxicy> however the apparent memory capacity of such a system becomes 410MB
[01:48] <bluefoxicy> disk access is much, much longer than the compression, decompression, and spaztic pagefaults until you use a lot of memory for a compressed store.  I don't like anything over 50%, heh.
[01:48] <airlied> but if an apps working set is larger than 10% you'll end up compress trashing it..
[01:48] <bluefoxicy> yes, you would
[01:48] <bluefoxicy> but if an app's working set is larger than 10%, you're risking OOM kills.
[01:49] <bluefoxicy> well, maybe not
[01:49] <bluefoxicy> that would be 25 megs on a 256 meg system
[01:49] <airlied> true... I can see it being rejected though as RAM is cheap..
[01:49] <bluefoxicy> However, if an application is working with a lot of libraries (openOffice, gnome applets, firefox.. . . these feel this a lot), then every time you do something your CD drive spins
[01:50] <bluefoxicy> which means you wait about 5-10 seconds, instead of a few miliseconds
[01:50] <bluefoxicy> on the subject of database systems, many of these would like to mmap() large areas of the database into memory
[01:51] <bluefoxicy> as your server may have 8GB of memory and a 256GB database (there are multi-TB databases on 64GB of RAM, btw), you could feasibly map in 256GB of the database (64-bit system will do this, you have 256TiB of VM space and the kernel gives access to 87TiB)
[01:51] <bluefoxicy> but only 8GB could be resident at once, minus other stuff in memory.
[01:52] <bluefoxicy> database servers such as this could feasibly use half of memory max as a compressed store, since most of that would become disk cache for the database anyway; they'd have about 10GiB (2GiB extra) of effective ram
[01:52] <bluefoxicy> RAM may be cheap, but CPU clocks are even cheaper
[01:54] <bluefoxicy> airlied:  ram is cheap yeah, it's nice to get something for free though ;)  It's been nice talking though, just felt like running through it to see if anyone actually cared.
[02:02] <airlied> bluefoxicy: yes it's an intersting idea.. just not sure it'll get mainlined :-)
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[02:04] <dolson> if I am compiling a customized dapper kernel that I want to be the default over any of the ubuntu standard ones, what should I put in the EXTRAVERSION field or kpkg parameters to do this?
[02:06] <cjb> I don't think what you put in EXTRAVERSION will affect where it goes in the grub menu.  If you want it to be the grub default, make it that in /boot/grub/menu.lst.
[02:07] <dolson> well then when a new kernel comes out, it takes over as the default
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[02:22] <dolson> BenC: hey man, would you answer a question for me? you said you would in your emails to me :)
[02:22] <BenC> sure
[02:23] <dolson> cool. ok, I've got a version of Ingo's patch that applies to Dapper's kernel, and I want to compile my kernel and have it as the default kernel at bootup, even if a new Ubuntu kernel comes out. how do I do this? is it in EXTRAVERSION, make-kpkg, or in menuconfig?
[02:24] <BenC> well, building requires make-kpkg
[02:24] <BenC> but whether or not it is the default depends on your boot loader
[02:25] <BenC> if it's grub, then edit /boot/grub/menu.lst appropriately
[02:25] <dolson> ok, but then if there's a kernel update, it takes priority and becomes the default
[02:27] <BenC> not if you setup menu.lst correctly
[02:29] <BenC> look at the default config option, and read what it says about saveddefault
[02:30] <dolson> alright. I was hoping to not have to add a section about configuring grub to my wiki, but I guess that's the only way
[02:35] <infinity> dolson: No one's stopping you from removing the Ubuntu kernels completely once yours is installed.
[02:35] <dolson> I know, that but I'm not going to advise that in a tutorial
[02:43] <BenC> the only other way, maybe, is to set the extra version to something like -99-foo
[02:44] <BenC> --append_version for make-kpkg
[02:44] <BenC> but I can't gurantee that we wont hit -104-* before dapper is released :)
[02:44] <dolson> heh.
[02:45] <dolson> is there a need to change the localversion (in menuconfig) or EXTRAVERSION in the Makefile, or is just --append_version enough
[02:52] <BenC> --append_version works
[02:55] <dolson> alright thanks Ben
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[04:18] <mgalvin> BenC: has the fix for #28660 been uploaded yet b/c it does not appear to be fixed on the current (2.6.15-16-686) kernel I have installed?
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[06:13] <HAL> anyone here
[06:14] <HAL> need a little assistance with kernel stuff
[06:14] <HAL> Q1: what is the command to report kernel version
[06:15] <fabbione> uname -a
[06:15] <HAL> cool
[06:15] <fabbione> but you should really ask stuff like this in #ubuntu :)
[06:16] <HAL> tried in there they all seam to be having there own little discussions
[06:16] <HAL> thanks for that
[06:17] <fabbione> welcome
[06:23] <bluefoxicy> holy shit that scared me
[06:23] <bluefoxicy> for a second i thought I had an e-mail from Richard Stallman and I was like "Oh no not this moron"
[06:24] <bluefoxicy> sleep
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[12:02] <raphink> hi guys
[12:02] <raphink> I'm currently working on a minor bug on update-grub
[12:02] <raphink> and would like some comments on how to fix it
[12:03] <fabbione> raphink: i think zul is working on grub, but he is not around right now. he is on .ca time
[12:03] <raphink> ok
[12:03] <raphink> fabbione: do you know of update-grub ?
[12:04] <raphink> I think you might be able to help me the issue is pretty simple
[12:04] <raphink> update-grub detects existing ^splashimage= lines
[12:04] <fabbione> raphink: sorry i am busy and i don't have time for it :/
[12:04] <fabbione> you will have to wait for zul
[12:04] <raphink> and add them to the buffer
[12:04] <raphink> ah ok
[12:04] <fabbione> otherwise file a bug
[12:04] <raphink> :(
[12:04] <raphink> the bug exists fabbione, I'm fixing it 
[12:04] <raphink> ;)
[12:04] <raphink> but I need some guidelines from the kernel guys
[12:05] <raphink> cause I don't want to break update-grub
[12:06] <Keybuk> raphink: fabbione says he's busy, and suggested you speak to zul when he's around
[12:06] <raphink> Keybuk: yes I can understand what fabbione said ;)
[12:06] <Keybuk> raphink: ah, then why did you carry on bugging him?
[12:06] <raphink> I don't need english->english translation :)
[12:07] <Keybuk> if somebody says they're busy and don't have time to help you, it's generally quite rude to carry on talking to them
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[01:01] <raphink> I've uploaded a fix for the grub package. Who shall I assign the bug to so the fix gets uploaded ?
[01:02] <Keybuk> ... if you've already uploaded it ?
[01:02] <Keybuk> leave it unassigned, it'll get assigned to the appropriate person
[01:02] <raphink> I've uploaded to malone
[01:03] <Keybuk> ah, leave it unassigned
[01:03] <raphink> I doubt it'll get assigned soon, otherwise it would already be
[01:03] <Keybuk> what makes you think that?
[01:04] <raphink> cause this bug is not very very new ;)
[01:04] <Keybuk> there's nobody in particular who knows/cares about grub
[01:04] <raphink> Keybuk: I mean is there an equivalent to motu-reviewers for main?
[01:05] <Keybuk> yes, the default assigness
[01:05] <Keybuk> (ie. "nobody")
[01:05] <raphink> this is a quite small patch, could you have a look at it ?
[01:05] <Keybuk> no, sorry
[01:05] <Keybuk> I don't know grub
[01:06] <raphink> it's just a piece of bash in update-grub
[01:06] <raphink> to better detect and replace the splashimage line
[01:06] <Keybuk> having attached the patch to the bug, it should get noticed on the ubuntu-bugs mailing list
[01:06] <raphink> it has nothing to do with grub itself
[01:06] <Keybuk> have you talked to mvo about it?  he was dealing with splashimage stuff
[01:06] <Keybuk> (according to the changelog)
[01:06] <raphink> really?
[01:07] <raphink> hmm
[01:08] <raphink> I'll go talk to him
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[01:50] <fabbione> BenC: new OCFS2 rocks :)
[01:50] <fabbione> it doesn't crash anymore on super load
[01:50] <BenC> sweet
[01:50] <fabbione> i am checking if i have something for you
[01:51] <fabbione> i don't hounestly rememeber if i did some push/pull :)
[01:53] <fabbione> oh crap
[01:53] <fabbione> i do have some stuff
[01:54] <fabbione> i did a pull from david but it did download all the 1500 objects again
[01:54] <fabbione> and now it's pushing them to roockery
[01:56] <fabbione> commit 0351e92ae406408854d0a4a6d7251f8e04308a79
[01:56] <fabbione> Author: Ben Collins <bcollins@ubuntu.com>
[01:56] <fabbione> Date:   Mon Feb 27 18:39:56 2006 -0500
[01:56] <fabbione>     Blah
[01:56] <fabbione> AHHAHA
[01:56] <fabbione> lovely
[01:56] <fabbione> BenC: please pull from me
[01:56] <fabbione> i have a couple of changes/fixed
[01:56] <fabbione> fixes
[01:56] <fabbione> more sun4v and one tg3 fix
[01:56] <BenC> fabbione: that stupid file wouldn't go back to "no change"...I've no idea why it had a delta
[01:56] <BenC> ok
[01:56] <fabbione> (for sun blade 2500(
[01:56] <mjg59> BenC: Did those diffs I sent look ok?
[01:57] <BenC> mjg59: yeah
[01:57] <mjg59> Rock
[02:14] <fabbione> receiving file list ... rsync: link_stat "/scm/linux/kernel/git/bcollins/ubuntu-2.6/objects/." (in pub) failed: No such file or directory (2)
[02:14] <fabbione> something wrong on master.k.o ben?
[02:16] <fabbione> never mind
[02:23] <BenC> I'm doing a git-prune
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[02:24] <fabbione> ok
[02:24] <fabbione> it was only for 30 secs or so
[02:24] <fabbione> it disappeared immediatly after
[02:26] <zul> heylo
[02:29] <fabbione> hi zul
[02:30] <zul> apparently my ears were burning in the log file
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[03:36] <zul> BenC: ping
[03:36] <BenC> zul: pong
[03:36] <zul> im getting the following error when im doing a pull
[03:36] <zul> inux/kernel/git/bcollins/ubuntu-2.6
[03:36] <zul> rsync: link_stat "/scm/linux/kernel/git/bcollins/ubuntu-2.6.git/refs/heads/ubuntu-fixes" (in pub) failed: No such file or directory (2)
[03:36] <zul> rsync error: some files could not be transferred (code 23) at main.c(1173)
[03:37] <BenC> currently?
[03:37] <zul> yep...ill try again thought if you want
[03:37] <BenC> oh, yeah, rm -f .git/refs/heads/ubuntu-fixes
[03:38] <BenC> actually cd .git/refs/heads/
[03:38] <BenC> rm everything except for master and origin
[03:38] <zul> done
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-kernel: Ubuntu kernel development discussion ONLY | New git tree for dapper: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelGitGuide | 2.6.15-16.23 uploaded (PPC FTBFS fixed) | Daily Diet of Destruction: http://people.ubuntu.com/~bcollins/kernels-daily/
=== Topic (#ubuntu-kernel): set by BenC at Mon Feb 20 16:39:14 2006
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[09:41] <fabbione> BenC: 
[09:41] <fabbione> rsync: link_stat "/scm/linux/kernel/git/bcollins/ubuntu-2.6.git/refs/heads/ubuntu-fixes" (in pub) failed: No such file or directory (2)
[09:42] <fabbione> again?
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[10:14] <fabbione> BenC: can you please pull from me again?
[10:15] <fabbione> i have got the SPARC64 IIIi SMP bug fix
[10:15] <fabbione> so we will make elmo and the porting machine more happy :)
[10:26] <lamont> BenC: it would be wonderful if the next upload included the hppa patches - it'll help the DC buildd machines out some, as well as making it possible for me to use my new test machine...
[10:59] <BenC> fabbione: yeah
[10:59] <BenC> fabbione: also, cd .git/refs/heads/ and rm everything but master and origin
[10:59] <BenC> lamont: it will be
[11:15] <fabbione> BenC: i did try that too... it didn't work.. i had to clone again
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