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=== Topic for #ubuntu-meeting: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 1 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 2 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 3 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 7 Mar 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu
=== Topic (#ubuntu-meeting): set by robitaille at Mon Feb 27 22:02:35 2006
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nomedhi all08:01
janimohi all 08:01
janimolets start08:01
janimoeverybody look at the agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanieleFavara/ProposedAgenda08:01
janimoduring the meeting08:02
janimook item 1)08:02
janimopkg selection08:02
janimodefine a deifnitive list08:02
janimothe pdf viewer is going to be evince-gtk08:02
janimoI reallyy have to package it now 0.5.1 release08:02
janimoburner: graveman (althoug it crashed last time)08:03
janimoI tried butnign a CD08:03
janimosome glib error08:03
nomedjanimo, the same ..08:03
janimoMail client: sylpheed-claws?08:03
janimoI don;t know the upstream said he would get it into dapper08:03
janimoI did not follow the progress of that08:03
janimonomed, so you think it is better than plain sylpheed?08:04
nomedjanimo, sylpheed-claws gtk2 ?08:04
janimosince I use TB I cannot decide08:04
janimoplayer: xfmedia?08:04
janimoI know it has a klunky interface08:04
nomedjanimo, not sure about that08:04
janimowoudl gxine or something else be better?08:04
nomedjanimo, i tested some ..08:05
janimoit's advantage os that is upstream xfce stuff, but it's not very friendly08:05
nomedand xine is the one that works better08:05
janimoyes, my expericence too08:05
janimoor mplayer but that is too complicated I guess08:05
nomedxfmedia crashes while trying to play audiocd08:05
nomedjanimo, i think mplayer is too complicated :)08:05
Gloubiboulgaxine-ui always worked fine for me08:06
janimook, xine-ui should be good08:06
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janimobut have to see if it uses only libxine-main (the free codecs)08:06
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janimoarchive manager, we don;t have one08:07
janimowe may need to package xarchive{r} 08:07
janimosince debian has ITP but no package last time Ilooked08:08
janimoI haven;t used either so I could not say which is better (stable, small, fast other criteria)08:08
janimostable is preferable08:08
nomedjanimo, xarchive works fine ...08:08
nomedbut i normally use the shell ...08:08
janimois that the one in C or the one that calls out ot shell scripts?08:08
janimonomed but it's not packaged right?08:09
nomedit calls out shell scripts08:09
nomedin universe i think08:09
nomedlet me check08:09
janimocould you investigate both and see which is better?08:09
janimowe canot wait for debian with this08:09
nomedjanimo, i think i pkged it :/08:10
janimoso we have to decide on player and archiver 08:10
janimonomed, good08:10
nomedxarchive is not in universe08:11
janimonomed, not it is not08:11
nomeddoes that mean we can't use it ?08:11
janimowe should package it and get it in as part of xubuntu dapper goal08:11
nomedthis UpstreamFreeze is driving me crazy :)08:11
janimonext, libraries08:12
janimoall gnomeprint/canvas ones are ok08:12
nomedperfect ...08:13
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nomedso abiword is usable as it is now ?08:13
janimoabiword doe snotr dep on gnome08:13
janimogconf and gnome-keyring are brought in by gdm08:13
janimoand update manager so we need to dep on them as well :(08:13
nomedit was the second question :)08:14
janimowhen we get to write the doc: we wil definitely specify there is default and on CD install, just as with ubuntu08:14
nomedjanimo, we should write down a list of all the ubuntu pkges 08:14
nomedi mean08:14
janimouniverse vs main: they are getting promoted, I will ping today about their status08:14
nomedas ... update manager 08:15
janimonomed, well proposed packages is a mess08:15
janimowe may need to clean that page08:15
nomedjanimo, i mean those ubuntu specific pkges08:15
janimowhat ubuntu specific ones?08:15
nomedhwdb-client udpatemanager08:16
nomedand so on08:16
janimoItem 2) Is the aim to be as well-integrated as Ubuntu?08:16
janimoupdate manager deps on gconf only so yes it will be in08:16
janimoI may try to make that dep optional too but ni guarrantees08:16
janimohwdb deps on gnome too08:16
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janimoif gnome-python were split it would help solving both these08:17
janimoprobbaly that is what we'll try to do and persuade seb to take the patch08:17
janimo2) Is the aim to be as well-integrated as Ubuntu?08:17
janimowould be nice but no time for dapper for sure08:17
janimonetwork manager will be on the CD for people to try it out if they wish08:18
janimosame for power manager and other gnome niceties which are small08:18
janimoivman, installed by default but not started08:18
janimoor maybe only on the CD? as most people will not have heard of it so won;t need it08:19
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janimomaybe on the CD only to keep install as small as posiible08:19
nomedjanimo, well or installed and started ..08:19
nomedon just on the install cd ..08:19
janimoanyway will not be started or it will conflict with thunar08:19
janimoright, so on the CD but not in default install08:19
janimodesktop icons, we'll porbbaly make them default in xfdekstop08:19
janimodesktop notifications: I don';t know what could use them right now so probably not08:20
janimologo: I am very determined to use the mouse in circle08:21
janimobut not sure about colors08:21
nomedcolor scheme should be defined08:21
janimothis is something everyone will have an opinion about08:21
janimohmm, but by whom? ubuntu-art, upstream xfce-art ?08:22
janimothey shoudl al lhave a say in that08:22
janimoeven xfce upstream has not deicded on what to use fro 4.408:22
nomedjanimo, that theme i proposed is the one on which an xfce artist is working08:23
janimoicon theme: what is the status of tango with xfce?08:23
janimonomed, yes I saw that on xfce-dev08:23
nomedjanimo, it'll be just a little step08:23
nomeddifferent for icon-naming spec ..08:23
janimowe may just use the rodent icon theme with the naming spec improvements they add until 4.4?08:23
janimotango I find nicer08:23
janimobut maybe it's not complete enough08:24
janimogtk engine should preferably be one of the fast ones08:24
janimomaybe not a cairo based on08:24
nomedi think an artist should propose something for this08:24
janimodo you have contacts with ubuntu art or xfce art by any chance?08:25
janimocause I don;t08:25
janimowe have to invite these guys08:25
nomedwe can try to post a message on the list08:25
janimowould be nice08:25
nomedartnay, ping ?08:25
janimowant to do it?08:25
nomedjanimo, we can ask directly to artnay if he is here ..08:26
nomedmaybe he can do that08:26
nomedjanimo, the problem here is that 08:26
nomedfirst of all ...08:26
janimohe;s over in ubuntu-artwork08:26
nomedwe should define a color palette08:26
janimothis is something I know little about08:27
janimoand a sensitive subject since it involves taste08:27
janimoreally the only input so far is do not look like kde08:27
janimoalthough I am not sure why the logo looks like kde, it does not really08:27
nomedjanimo, graphite theme is neutral .....08:27
janimoblue but different08:27
nomedand it's ok even with blue ...08:28
janimoI like blue too08:28
nomedbut xubuntu-artists are needed here :/08:29
janimobut i quickly get used to any color theme08:29
janimoI hope to get the first ISO out soon, and then in the announcement will ask for artists/docmuenters/translators08:29
janimoneed to ping Colin and see possible ETA for CD building08:29
nomedthat's would help very much08:30
nomedto get more people in xubuntu ...08:30
janimoyou see even ubuntu gnome is undecided on art stuff and other things related to look and feel (logout dialog)08:30
nomedjanimo, their problem is different .. i think08:31
nomedthey've too much stuff :)08:31
janimowell once we announce we will have too :)08:31
janimoproposals for themes/colors/flames :)08:31
janimoso we could meet in a week from now, same hour?08:31
nomedfor me it's ok08:32
janimotill then, I'll hope to have evince, CD build sorted out08:32
GloubiboulgaI'll be there if my presence is needed :)08:32
janimocould you look into xarchiver and xarcvhive and see which is better?08:32
janimoGloubiboulga: sure08:32
nomedi can yes08:33
janimowe need to decide on panel layout and menu08:33
nomedjanimo, yes08:33
janimoI'll put something saner but not final next upload08:33
janimoso the panels are stretched 08:33
nomedjanimo, i'll write a wiki page for that ..08:34
nomedpanel and menu08:34
janimook thanks, mail the report of xarchiver to xubuntu-dev08:34
janimodo you intend to package them too?08:34
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nomedjanimo, i can pkge them ...08:34
janimoif so put biinary debs or source packagesomewhere08:35
janimobut if not it's ok just say which is stabler08:35
janimoand generally better08:35
janimono need to package bith if we willonly use one08:35
janimoanything else?08:35
nomedjanimo, no08:35
janimowe finsihed undr an hour, good :)08:35
janimook have a nice evening then :)08:36
Gloubiboulgacu janimo 08:36
janimosee you next week, with hopefully good progress done08:36
nomedcu janimo Gloubiboulga 08:36
Gloubiboulgabye nomed 08:36
janimoby Gloubiboulga08:36
VinzeGuess I"m late...08:36
janimoVinze, yes :)08:36
janimoyou can read the backlog08:36
VinzeAnyway, I can do some translating...08:37
janimothat would be great08:37
VinzeI already help a bit on Xfce08:37
VinzeI did Thunar08:37
janimogood, we need translators08:37
janimowill probably ask on xfce-i18n once we have an iso out08:37
VinzeI'm on that so I guess I'll notive08:38
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LaserJockmdz: did you happen to get an email from crimsun about me (Jordan Mantha)?08:46
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sistpotyhi folks08:57
LaserJockhi everybody08:57
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sabdflevening all08:58
mdzI've sent an SMS to Keybuk08:59
mdzonly recurring items on the agenda today08:59
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mdzwe'll begin; hopefully Keybuk will join us09:00
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mdzI think all of the pending membership applications for ubuntu-core-dev are invalid09:01
mjg59mdz: Matches what I thought09:01
dholbachmdz: I had no answer back from all of them.09:01
mdznone of them are MOTUs or had prior contact with the TB about their applications09:01
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mdzso I'll decline them all with an appropriate comment09:02
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sabdfli'll do that while you guys get stated on MOTU09:02
mdzok, thanks09:02
mdzLaserJock: you're here?09:02
=== LaserJock is Jordan Mantha
mdzglad you could make it at the scheduled time09:03
LaserJockwell, I'm ditching a RL meeting to be here so hopefully I won't get in too much trouble09:03
mdzLaserJock: I have your wiki page up, but would you like to summarize in a few sentences what it's all about for you?09:03
LaserJockI got started working for MOTU because I had a problem with a package and I wanted to fix09:04
LaserJockand Ubuntu was the first distro I  truly felt a part of the community and wanted to give back09:04
LaserJockhttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-February/015279.html is an interview dholbach did of me for the MOTU Report09:05
sabdflLaserJock: any suggestions for ways we can boost Utnubu?09:05
LaserJocksabdfl: I think the biggest thing is getting new MOTU wannabes involved and making it easy to get in touch with people09:06
LaserJockmost of the old timers know what they are doing or are more "set" in their ways09:06
sabdflgreat wiki page, btw, very well laid out09:06
mdzLaserJock: can you tell us a bit about MOTUScience and your goals for it?09:06
sabdflLaserJock: would you be interested in an Ubuntu derivative specifically for university use?09:07
LaserJockmdz: My main goal is to make sure that Ubuntu keeps up with Debian, and where possible provide a pathway for interested scientists to contribute09:07
mdzLaserJock: in what ways can we make Ubuntu more useful to the science community?09:07
LaserJocksabdfl: I'm more interested in making Ubuntu a good desktop for scientific use rather than a derivative, but Edubuntu is promising09:07
LaserJockmdz: providing free/open source packages as alternatives to traditional, expensive, proprietary apps09:08
sabdfldo you see the scientific community as different from the university one?09:08
LaserJocksee w.u.c/UbuntuScientists for example09:08
ogra_yes, i hopw to work closer with the MOTUScience team for dapper+1, we want to get other apps in and also provide a more marture set of apps 09:08
mdzLaserJock: are there many plausible alternatives to proprietary scientific apps which are not yet available in Ubuntu?09:09
mjg59LaserJock: How do you think we can effectively market Ubuntu to scientists?09:09
LaserJocksabdfl: in some ways. the scientific community often lives inside the university, but is more geared towards research instead of education (in the traditional sense)09:09
mdz<Keybuk-SMS> Hotel.  No Internet Access.09:09
LaserJockmdz: yes, some. Kyral has been working on FlowDesigner for MOTUScience.09:10
LaserJockmjg59: By being a great desktop while also being able to provide scientific packages that are up-to-date, bug free ;-), and getting new packages in09:10
sabdflmdz: is keybuk traveling for you?09:11
mdzsabdfl: yes09:11
LaserJockI am particularly interested in people using Ubuntu for writing dissertations and publications, data analysis,etc.09:11
LaserJockbut a guy in the department yesterday had me get him an Ubuntu disk to put on his computational cluster because it worked better than SuSE09:12
mdzLaserJock: apart from improving Ubuntu to make it appealing to scientists, how can we let them know that it exists and might be useful to them?09:12
mjg59LaserJock: As a final year PhD student myself, I'm very interested in ways that I can get more people in the community running Ubuntu :)09:12
sabdflok, +1 for LaserJock from me09:12
mdzLaserJock: who has been sponsoring your uploads so far?09:13
LaserJockmdz: I think there is a pretty solid scientific base in Ubuntu, I think marketing Ubuntu as being able to run your science apps + having a good desktop experience09:13
=== sistpoty sponsored one or two uploads... and reviewed a package on revu
LaserJockmjg59: by making it easy for students/researchers to get there work done and not getting in the way09:14
lucasbeing a MOTU, I was actually surprised to learn that LaserJock wasn't a MOTU yet. He really did a lot of excellent work inside MOTU, and he has been around for longer than I have. I very strongly recommend him for MOTU.09:14
sistpotyLaserJock has been around for a very long time, and his packaging work is really good :)09:14
mdzdholbach: any comments on LaserJock?09:14
LaserJockmdz: crimsun and \sh did a lot of sponsoring for me but again, crimsun was unable to make the meeting (I asked him to email dholbach or mdz) and \sh is sorta away it seems09:15
dholbachafter there was not a real agreement on him in the last TB meeting I had a look at some of his patches/uploads and they were ok for me09:15
LaserJockRiddell also uploaded my first package from scratch (plotdrop)09:15
mdzRiddell: around?09:16
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Riddellyes, plotdrop was in good shape when I reviewed it, which I think was after a few revisions on revu, so I advocate LaserJock as much as I can from 1 package 09:17
LaserJockI think the 2 big issues as far as MOTUScience goes is licensing (getting upstreams to have DFSG free licenses) and bugs (lots of science apps are poorly maintained)09:17
mdzmjg59: any further questions?09:18
LaserJockI hope by organizing interested parties around science related apps we can help solve those issues09:18
dholbachthose uploads weren't hardcore-deep-down-fixes, but what I like about LaserJock is that he tries to organize the MOTU world a bit and I think he'll be an asset for the last-weeks-fixing-up-dappers-universe - and I like his honesty, I don't think he would upload packages without being really sure (or having asked others)09:18
mjg59Nope, I think the combination of this and last time is good for me09:18
mdz+1 from me based on peer recommendations and history of working within the community09:19
mjg59+1 for working on stuff I'd be doing if I had more time09:19
mdzLaserJock: congratulations and welcome aboard09:20
dholbachcongratulations LaserJock09:20
sistpotycongrats LaserJock! finally :)09:20
lucas:-) very good choice to get him in :-)09:20
mdzI think we had a couple of folks from the last meeting who were deferred due to lack of time09:20
LaserJockthanks TB and thanks all the MOTUs and wannabes09:20
sabdflwell done LaserJock09:20
mdzis anyone here in that category?09:20
ograyay LaserJock !!09:21
sivangLaserJock: congrets!!09:21
mdzOK, if not, is there anyone else present who is applying for ubuntu-dev/MOTU membership/09:21
Tonio_congrats LaserJock :)09:21
jpatrickcongrats LaserJock :)09:22
mdzIvailo Ivanov?09:22
mdzif not, then we're finished09:23
mdzwith memberships09:23
mdzis there any other business?09:23
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ogralooks like we're done ...09:24
mdzhearing none, adjourned09:24
dholbachthat must have been one of the quickest TB meetings :)09:24
mdzthanks, everyone09:24
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mdzmjg59: do you have a few minutes to send a summary to -devel-announce? should be a short one09:24
mdzmjg59: and I have to finish writing the last one09:24
ogradholbach, we had quicker ones :) .... but that was really fast ... its carnival in 50% of the world :)09:24
=== mvo stops lurking and goes for carnival
sabdflnight all09:25
dolsonbye sabdfl09:25
dholbachnight sabdfl09:25
sabdflmust mean that ubuntu dev's like to samba...09:25
ograciao sabdfl 09:25
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sivangmjg59: when you have a minute, we have an emacs problem we need to fix under xgl ;-)09:26
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