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| === Topic for #ubuntu-meeting: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Feb 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 1 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 2 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 3 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 7 Mar 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | ||
| === Topic (#ubuntu-meeting): set by robitaille at Mon Feb 27 22:02:35 2006 | ||
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| nomed | hi all | 08:01 |
|---|---|---|
| janimo | hi all | 08:01 |
| terrex | hi | 08:01 |
| janimo | lets start | 08:01 |
| Gloubiboulga | hi | 08:01 |
| janimo | everybody look at the agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanieleFavara/ProposedAgenda | 08:01 |
| janimo | during the meeting | 08:02 |
| janimo | ok item 1) | 08:02 |
| janimo | pkg selection | 08:02 |
| janimo | define a deifnitive list | 08:02 |
| janimo | the pdf viewer is going to be evince-gtk | 08:02 |
| janimo | I reallyy have to package it now 0.5.1 release | 08:02 |
| nomed | perfect | 08:03 |
| janimo | burner: graveman (althoug it crashed last time) | 08:03 |
| janimo | I tried butnign a CD | 08:03 |
| janimo | some glib error | 08:03 |
| nomed | janimo, the same .. | 08:03 |
| janimo | Mail client: sylpheed-claws? | 08:03 |
| nomed | +1 | 08:03 |
| janimo | I don;t know the upstream said he would get it into dapper | 08:03 |
| janimo | I did not follow the progress of that | 08:03 |
| janimo | nomed, so you think it is better than plain sylpheed? | 08:04 |
| nomed | janimo, sylpheed-claws gtk2 ? | 08:04 |
| janimo | sure | 08:04 |
| nomed | yes | 08:04 |
| janimo | ok | 08:04 |
| janimo | since I use TB I cannot decide | 08:04 |
| janimo | player: xfmedia? | 08:04 |
| janimo | I know it has a klunky interface | 08:04 |
| nomed | janimo, not sure about that | 08:04 |
| janimo | woudl gxine or something else be better? | 08:04 |
| nomed | janimo, i tested some .. | 08:05 |
| janimo | it's advantage os that is upstream xfce stuff, but it's not very friendly | 08:05 |
| nomed | and xine is the one that works better | 08:05 |
| nomed | xine-ui | 08:05 |
| janimo | yes, my expericence too | 08:05 |
| janimo | or mplayer but that is too complicated I guess | 08:05 |
| nomed | xfmedia crashes while trying to play audiocd | 08:05 |
| nomed | janimo, i think mplayer is too complicated :) | 08:05 |
| nomed | yes | 08:05 |
| Gloubiboulga | xine-ui always worked fine for me | 08:06 |
| janimo | ok, xine-ui should be good | 08:06 |
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| janimo | but have to see if it uses only libxine-main (the free codecs) | 08:06 |
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| ranf | hi | 08:07 |
| janimo | hi | 08:07 |
| janimo | archive manager, we don;t have one | 08:07 |
| janimo | we may need to package xarchive{r} | 08:07 |
| nomed | yep | 08:08 |
| janimo | since debian has ITP but no package last time Ilooked | 08:08 |
| janimo | I haven;t used either so I could not say which is better (stable, small, fast other criteria) | 08:08 |
| janimo | stable is preferable | 08:08 |
| nomed | janimo, xarchive works fine ... | 08:08 |
| nomed | but i normally use the shell ... | 08:08 |
| janimo | is that the one in C or the one that calls out ot shell scripts? | 08:08 |
| janimo | nomed but it's not packaged right? | 08:09 |
| nomed | it calls out shell scripts | 08:09 |
| nomed | in universe i think | 08:09 |
| nomed | let me check | 08:09 |
| janimo | could you investigate both and see which is better? | 08:09 |
| janimo | we canot wait for debian with this | 08:09 |
| nomed | k | 08:10 |
| nomed | janimo, i think i pkged it :/ | 08:10 |
| janimo | so we have to decide on player and archiver | 08:10 |
| janimo | nomed, good | 08:10 |
| nomed | xarchive is not in universe | 08:11 |
| janimo | nomed, not it is not | 08:11 |
| nomed | does that mean we can't use it ? | 08:11 |
| janimo | we should package it and get it in as part of xubuntu dapper goal | 08:11 |
| nomed | this UpstreamFreeze is driving me crazy :) | 08:11 |
| nomed | k | 08:11 |
| janimo | next, libraries | 08:12 |
| janimo | all gnomeprint/canvas ones are ok | 08:12 |
| nomed | perfect ... | 08:13 |
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| nomed | so abiword is usable as it is now ? | 08:13 |
| janimo | abiword doe snotr dep on gnome | 08:13 |
| janimo | gconf and gnome-keyring are brought in by gdm | 08:13 |
| janimo | and update manager so we need to dep on them as well :( | 08:13 |
| nomed | it was the second question :) | 08:14 |
| janimo | when we get to write the doc: we wil definitely specify there is default and on CD install, just as with ubuntu | 08:14 |
| nomed | janimo, we should write down a list of all the ubuntu pkges | 08:14 |
| nomed | i mean | 08:14 |
| janimo | universe vs main: they are getting promoted, I will ping today about their status | 08:14 |
| nomed | as ... update manager | 08:15 |
| janimo | nomed, well proposed packages is a mess | 08:15 |
| janimo | we may need to clean that page | 08:15 |
| nomed | janimo, i mean those ubuntu specific pkges | 08:15 |
| janimo | what ubuntu specific ones? | 08:15 |
| janimo | ? | 08:16 |
| nomed | hwdb-client udpatemanager | 08:16 |
| nomed | and so on | 08:16 |
| janimo | Item 2) Is the aim to be as well-integrated as Ubuntu? | 08:16 |
| janimo | update manager deps on gconf only so yes it will be in | 08:16 |
| janimo | I may try to make that dep optional too but ni guarrantees | 08:16 |
| janimo | hwdb deps on gnome too | 08:16 |
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| janimo | if gnome-python were split it would help solving both these | 08:17 |
| janimo | probbaly that is what we'll try to do and persuade seb to take the patch | 08:17 |
| janimo | 2) Is the aim to be as well-integrated as Ubuntu? | 08:17 |
| janimo | would be nice but no time for dapper for sure | 08:17 |
| janimo | network manager will be on the CD for people to try it out if they wish | 08:18 |
| janimo | same for power manager and other gnome niceties which are small | 08:18 |
| nomed | k | 08:18 |
| janimo | ivman, installed by default but not started | 08:18 |
| janimo | ok? | 08:18 |
| janimo | or maybe only on the CD? as most people will not have heard of it so won;t need it | 08:19 |
| nomed | yes | 08:19 |
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| janimo | maybe on the CD only to keep install as small as posiible | 08:19 |
| nomed | janimo, well or installed and started .. | 08:19 |
| nomed | on just on the install cd .. | 08:19 |
| janimo | anyway will not be started or it will conflict with thunar | 08:19 |
| janimo | right, so on the CD but not in default install | 08:19 |
| nomed | k | 08:19 |
| janimo | desktop icons, we'll porbbaly make them default in xfdekstop | 08:19 |
| janimo | desktop notifications: I don';t know what could use them right now so probably not | 08:20 |
| janimo | 3)artwork | 08:20 |
| janimo | logo: I am very determined to use the mouse in circle | 08:21 |
| nomed | +1 | 08:21 |
| janimo | but not sure about colors | 08:21 |
| nomed | yes | 08:21 |
| nomed | color scheme should be defined | 08:21 |
| janimo | this is something everyone will have an opinion about | 08:21 |
| janimo | hmm, but by whom? ubuntu-art, upstream xfce-art ? | 08:22 |
| janimo | they shoudl al lhave a say in that | 08:22 |
| janimo | even xfce upstream has not deicded on what to use fro 4.4 | 08:22 |
| nomed | janimo, that theme i proposed is the one on which an xfce artist is working | 08:23 |
| janimo | icon theme: what is the status of tango with xfce? | 08:23 |
| janimo | nomed, yes I saw that on xfce-dev | 08:23 |
| nomed | janimo, it'll be just a little step | 08:23 |
| nomed | different for icon-naming spec .. | 08:23 |
| janimo | we may just use the rodent icon theme with the naming spec improvements they add until 4.4? | 08:23 |
| janimo | tango I find nicer | 08:23 |
| janimo | but maybe it's not complete enough | 08:24 |
| janimo | gtk engine should preferably be one of the fast ones | 08:24 |
| janimo | maybe not a cairo based on | 08:24 |
| nomed | i think an artist should propose something for this | 08:24 |
| janimo | do you have contacts with ubuntu art or xfce art by any chance? | 08:25 |
| janimo | cause I don;t | 08:25 |
| janimo | we have to invite these guys | 08:25 |
| nomed | we can try to post a message on the list | 08:25 |
| janimo | would be nice | 08:25 |
| nomed | artnay, ping ? | 08:25 |
| janimo | want to do it? | 08:25 |
| nomed | janimo, we can ask directly to artnay if he is here .. | 08:26 |
| janimo | ok | 08:26 |
| nomed | maybe he can do that | 08:26 |
| nomed | janimo, the problem here is that | 08:26 |
| nomed | first of all ... | 08:26 |
| janimo | he;s over in ubuntu-artwork | 08:26 |
| nomed | we should define a color palette | 08:26 |
| janimo | this is something I know little about | 08:27 |
| janimo | and a sensitive subject since it involves taste | 08:27 |
| nomed | eehehe | 08:27 |
| janimo | really the only input so far is do not look like kde | 08:27 |
| janimo | although I am not sure why the logo looks like kde, it does not really | 08:27 |
| nomed | janimo, graphite theme is neutral ..... | 08:27 |
| janimo | blue but different | 08:27 |
| nomed | and it's ok even with blue ... | 08:28 |
| janimo | I like blue too | 08:28 |
| nomed | but xubuntu-artists are needed here :/ | 08:29 |
| janimo | but i quickly get used to any color theme | 08:29 |
| janimo | I hope to get the first ISO out soon, and then in the announcement will ask for artists/docmuenters/translators | 08:29 |
| janimo | need to ping Colin and see possible ETA for CD building | 08:29 |
| nomed | that's would help very much | 08:30 |
| nomed | to get more people in xubuntu ... | 08:30 |
| janimo | you see even ubuntu gnome is undecided on art stuff and other things related to look and feel (logout dialog) | 08:30 |
| nomed | janimo, their problem is different .. i think | 08:31 |
| nomed | they've too much stuff :) | 08:31 |
| janimo | well once we announce we will have too :) | 08:31 |
| nomed | :) | 08:31 |
| janimo | proposals for themes/colors/flames :) | 08:31 |
| janimo | 4)Tasks | 08:31 |
| janimo | so we could meet in a week from now, same hour? | 08:31 |
| nomed | for me it's ok | 08:32 |
| janimo | till then, I'll hope to have evince, CD build sorted out | 08:32 |
| Gloubiboulga | I'll be there if my presence is needed :) | 08:32 |
| janimo | could you look into xarchiver and xarcvhive and see which is better? | 08:32 |
| janimo | Gloubiboulga: sure | 08:32 |
| nomed | i can yes | 08:33 |
| janimo | we need to decide on panel layout and menu | 08:33 |
| nomed | janimo, yes | 08:33 |
| janimo | I'll put something saner but not final next upload | 08:33 |
| janimo | so the panels are stretched | 08:33 |
| nomed | janimo, i'll write a wiki page for that .. | 08:34 |
| nomed | panel and menu | 08:34 |
| janimo | ok thanks, mail the report of xarchiver to xubuntu-dev | 08:34 |
| janimo | ok | 08:34 |
| nomed | ok | 08:34 |
| janimo | do you intend to package them too? | 08:34 |
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| nomed | janimo, i can pkge them ... | 08:34 |
| janimo | if so put biinary debs or source packagesomewhere | 08:35 |
| janimo | but if not it's ok just say which is stabler | 08:35 |
| janimo | and generally better | 08:35 |
| nomed | ok | 08:35 |
| janimo | no need to package bith if we willonly use one | 08:35 |
| janimo | both | 08:35 |
| janimo | thanks | 08:35 |
| janimo | anything else? | 08:35 |
| nomed | janimo, no | 08:35 |
| janimo | we finsihed undr an hour, good :) | 08:35 |
| nomed | :) | 08:35 |
| janimo | ok have a nice evening then :) | 08:36 |
| Gloubiboulga | cu janimo | 08:36 |
| janimo | see you next week, with hopefully good progress done | 08:36 |
| nomed | cu janimo Gloubiboulga | 08:36 |
| Gloubiboulga | bye nomed | 08:36 |
| janimo | by Gloubiboulga | 08:36 |
| Vinze | Guess I"m late... | 08:36 |
| janimo | Vinze, yes :) | 08:36 |
| Vinze | Crap | 08:36 |
| janimo | you can read the backlog | 08:36 |
| Vinze | Anyway, I can do some translating... | 08:37 |
| janimo | that would be great | 08:37 |
| janimo | FR? | 08:37 |
| Vinze | NL | 08:37 |
| Vinze | I already help a bit on Xfce | 08:37 |
| Vinze | I did Thunar | 08:37 |
| janimo | good, we need translators | 08:37 |
| janimo | will probably ask on xfce-i18n once we have an iso out | 08:37 |
| Vinze | k | 08:37 |
| Vinze | I'm on that so I guess I'll notive | 08:38 |
| Vinze | notice | 08:38 |
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| LaserJock | mdz: did you happen to get an email from crimsun about me (Jordan Mantha)? | 08:46 |
| mdz | no | 08:46 |
| LaserJock | :/ | 08:46 |
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| mjg59 | Hi | 08:56 |
| mdz | hi | 08:57 |
| sistpoty | hi folks | 08:57 |
| Vinze | Hey | 08:57 |
| LaserJock | hi everybody | 08:57 |
| Vinze | Hey | 08:57 |
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| sabdfl | evening all | 08:58 |
| Vinze | hey | 08:58 |
| mdz | I've sent an SMS to Keybuk | 08:59 |
| mdz | only recurring items on the agenda today | 08:59 |
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| mdz | we'll begin; hopefully Keybuk will join us | 09:00 |
| sabdfl | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda | 09:01 |
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| mdz | I think all of the pending membership applications for ubuntu-core-dev are invalid | 09:01 |
| mjg59 | mdz: Matches what I thought | 09:01 |
| dholbach | mdz: I had no answer back from all of them. | 09:01 |
| sabdfl | yup | 09:01 |
| mdz | none of them are MOTUs or had prior contact with the TB about their applications | 09:01 |
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| mdz | so I'll decline them all with an appropriate comment | 09:02 |
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| sabdfl | i'll do that while you guys get stated on MOTU | 09:02 |
| mdz | ok, thanks | 09:02 |
| mdz | LaserJock: you're here? | 09:02 |
| === LaserJock is Jordan Mantha | ||
| mdz | glad you could make it at the scheduled time | 09:03 |
| LaserJock | well, I'm ditching a RL meeting to be here so hopefully I won't get in too much trouble | 09:03 |
| LaserJock | ;-) | 09:03 |
| mdz | daring | 09:03 |
| mdz | LaserJock: I have your wiki page up, but would you like to summarize in a few sentences what it's all about for you? | 09:03 |
| LaserJock | I got started working for MOTU because I had a problem with a package and I wanted to fix | 09:04 |
| LaserJock | it | 09:04 |
| LaserJock | and Ubuntu was the first distro I truly felt a part of the community and wanted to give back | 09:04 |
| LaserJock | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-February/015279.html is an interview dholbach did of me for the MOTU Report | 09:05 |
| sabdfl | LaserJock: any suggestions for ways we can boost Utnubu? | 09:05 |
| LaserJock | sabdfl: I think the biggest thing is getting new MOTU wannabes involved and making it easy to get in touch with people | 09:06 |
| sabdfl | ok | 09:06 |
| LaserJock | most of the old timers know what they are doing or are more "set" in their ways | 09:06 |
| sabdfl | great wiki page, btw, very well laid out | 09:06 |
| mdz | LaserJock: can you tell us a bit about MOTUScience and your goals for it? | 09:06 |
| sabdfl | LaserJock: would you be interested in an Ubuntu derivative specifically for university use? | 09:07 |
| LaserJock | mdz: My main goal is to make sure that Ubuntu keeps up with Debian, and where possible provide a pathway for interested scientists to contribute | 09:07 |
| mdz | LaserJock: in what ways can we make Ubuntu more useful to the science community? | 09:07 |
| LaserJock | sabdfl: I'm more interested in making Ubuntu a good desktop for scientific use rather than a derivative, but Edubuntu is promising | 09:07 |
| LaserJock | mdz: providing free/open source packages as alternatives to traditional, expensive, proprietary apps | 09:08 |
| sabdfl | do you see the scientific community as different from the university one? | 09:08 |
| LaserJock | see w.u.c/UbuntuScientists for example | 09:08 |
| ogra_ | yes, i hopw to work closer with the MOTUScience team for dapper+1, we want to get other apps in and also provide a more marture set of apps | 09:08 |
| ogra_ | *hope | 09:08 |
| mdz | LaserJock: are there many plausible alternatives to proprietary scientific apps which are not yet available in Ubuntu? | 09:09 |
| mjg59 | LaserJock: How do you think we can effectively market Ubuntu to scientists? | 09:09 |
| LaserJock | sabdfl: in some ways. the scientific community often lives inside the university, but is more geared towards research instead of education (in the traditional sense) | 09:09 |
| mdz | <Keybuk-SMS> Hotel. No Internet Access. | 09:09 |
| LaserJock | mdz: yes, some. Kyral has been working on FlowDesigner for MOTUScience. | 09:10 |
| LaserJock | mjg59: By being a great desktop while also being able to provide scientific packages that are up-to-date, bug free ;-), and getting new packages in | 09:10 |
| sabdfl | mdz: is keybuk traveling for you? | 09:11 |
| mdz | sabdfl: yes | 09:11 |
| LaserJock | I am particularly interested in people using Ubuntu for writing dissertations and publications, data analysis,etc. | 09:11 |
| LaserJock | but a guy in the department yesterday had me get him an Ubuntu disk to put on his computational cluster because it worked better than SuSE | 09:12 |
| mdz | LaserJock: apart from improving Ubuntu to make it appealing to scientists, how can we let them know that it exists and might be useful to them? | 09:12 |
| mjg59 | LaserJock: As a final year PhD student myself, I'm very interested in ways that I can get more people in the community running Ubuntu :) | 09:12 |
| sabdfl | ok, +1 for LaserJock from me | 09:12 |
| mdz | LaserJock: who has been sponsoring your uploads so far? | 09:13 |
| LaserJock | mdz: I think there is a pretty solid scientific base in Ubuntu, I think marketing Ubuntu as being able to run your science apps + having a good desktop experience | 09:13 |
| === sistpoty sponsored one or two uploads... and reviewed a package on revu | ||
| LaserJock | mjg59: by making it easy for students/researchers to get there work done and not getting in the way | 09:14 |
| lucas | being a MOTU, I was actually surprised to learn that LaserJock wasn't a MOTU yet. He really did a lot of excellent work inside MOTU, and he has been around for longer than I have. I very strongly recommend him for MOTU. | 09:14 |
| sistpoty | LaserJock has been around for a very long time, and his packaging work is really good :) | 09:14 |
| mdz | dholbach: any comments on LaserJock? | 09:14 |
| LaserJock | mdz: crimsun and \sh did a lot of sponsoring for me but again, crimsun was unable to make the meeting (I asked him to email dholbach or mdz) and \sh is sorta away it seems | 09:15 |
| dholbach | after there was not a real agreement on him in the last TB meeting I had a look at some of his patches/uploads and they were ok for me | 09:15 |
| mdz | thanks | 09:15 |
| LaserJock | Riddell also uploaded my first package from scratch (plotdrop) | 09:15 |
| mdz | Riddell: around? | 09:16 |
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| Riddell | yes, plotdrop was in good shape when I reviewed it, which I think was after a few revisions on revu, so I advocate LaserJock as much as I can from 1 package | 09:17 |
| LaserJock | I think the 2 big issues as far as MOTUScience goes is licensing (getting upstreams to have DFSG free licenses) and bugs (lots of science apps are poorly maintained) | 09:17 |
| mdz | mjg59: any further questions? | 09:18 |
| LaserJock | I hope by organizing interested parties around science related apps we can help solve those issues | 09:18 |
| dholbach | those uploads weren't hardcore-deep-down-fixes, but what I like about LaserJock is that he tries to organize the MOTU world a bit and I think he'll be an asset for the last-weeks-fixing-up-dappers-universe - and I like his honesty, I don't think he would upload packages without being really sure (or having asked others) | 09:18 |
| mjg59 | Nope, I think the combination of this and last time is good for me | 09:18 |
| mdz | ok | 09:19 |
| mdz | +1 from me based on peer recommendations and history of working within the community | 09:19 |
| mjg59 | +1 for working on stuff I'd be doing if I had more time | 09:19 |
| mdz | ;-) | 09:20 |
| mdz | LaserJock: congratulations and welcome aboard | 09:20 |
| dholbach | congratulations LaserJock | 09:20 |
| sistpoty | congrats LaserJock! finally :) | 09:20 |
| lucas | :-) very good choice to get him in :-) | 09:20 |
| mdz | I think we had a couple of folks from the last meeting who were deferred due to lack of time | 09:20 |
| LaserJock | thanks TB and thanks all the MOTUs and wannabes | 09:20 |
| sabdfl | well done LaserJock | 09:20 |
| mdz | is anyone here in that category? | 09:20 |
| ogra | yay LaserJock !! | 09:21 |
| sivang | LaserJock: congrets!! | 09:21 |
| mdz | OK, if not, is there anyone else present who is applying for ubuntu-dev/MOTU membership/ | 09:21 |
| mdz | s,/,?/ | 09:21 |
| Tonio_ | congrats LaserJock :) | 09:21 |
| jpatrick | congrats LaserJock :) | 09:22 |
| mdz | Ivailo Ivanov? | 09:22 |
| mdz | freeflying? | 09:22 |
| jpatrick | sleeping | 09:22 |
| mdz | if not, then we're finished | 09:23 |
| mdz | with memberships | 09:23 |
| mdz | is there any other business? | 09:23 |
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| ogra | looks like we're done ... | 09:24 |
| mdz | hearing none, adjourned | 09:24 |
| dholbach | that must have been one of the quickest TB meetings :) | 09:24 |
| mdz | thanks, everyone | 09:24 |
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| mjg59 | Cool | 09:24 |
| mdz | mjg59: do you have a few minutes to send a summary to -devel-announce? should be a short one | 09:24 |
| mdz | mjg59: and I have to finish writing the last one | 09:24 |
| ogra | dholbach, we had quicker ones :) .... but that was really fast ... its carnival in 50% of the world :) | 09:24 |
| === mvo stops lurking and goes for carnival | ||
| ogra | heh | 09:25 |
| sabdfl | night all | 09:25 |
| dolson | bye sabdfl | 09:25 |
| dholbach | night sabdfl | 09:25 |
| sabdfl | must mean that ubuntu dev's like to samba... | 09:25 |
| ogra | ciao sabdfl | 09:25 |
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| sivang | mjg59: when you have a minute, we have an emacs problem we need to fix under xgl ;-) | 09:26 |
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