[08:01] <nomed> hi all
[08:01] <janimo> hi all 
[08:01] <terrex> hi
[08:01] <janimo> lets start
[08:01] <Gloubiboulga> hi
[08:01] <janimo> everybody look at the agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanieleFavara/ProposedAgenda
[08:02] <janimo> during the meeting
[08:02] <janimo> ok item 1)
[08:02] <janimo> pkg selection
[08:02] <janimo> define a deifnitive list
[08:02] <janimo> the pdf viewer is going to be evince-gtk
[08:02] <janimo> I reallyy have to package it now 0.5.1 release
[08:03] <nomed> perfect
[08:03] <janimo> burner: graveman (althoug it crashed last time)
[08:03] <janimo> I tried butnign a CD
[08:03] <janimo> some glib error
[08:03] <nomed> janimo, the same ..
[08:03] <janimo> Mail client: sylpheed-claws?
[08:03] <nomed> +1
[08:03] <janimo> I don;t know the upstream said he would get it into dapper
[08:03] <janimo> I did not follow the progress of that
[08:04] <janimo> nomed, so you think it is better than plain sylpheed?
[08:04] <nomed> janimo, sylpheed-claws gtk2 ?
[08:04] <janimo> sure
[08:04] <nomed> yes
[08:04] <janimo> ok
[08:04] <janimo> since I use TB I cannot decide
[08:04] <janimo> player: xfmedia?
[08:04] <janimo> I know it has a klunky interface
[08:04] <nomed> janimo, not sure about that
[08:04] <janimo> woudl gxine or something else be better?
[08:05] <nomed> janimo, i tested some ..
[08:05] <janimo> it's advantage os that is upstream xfce stuff, but it's not very friendly
[08:05] <nomed> and xine is the one that works better
[08:05] <nomed> xine-ui
[08:05] <janimo> yes, my expericence too
[08:05] <janimo> or mplayer but that is too complicated I guess
[08:05] <nomed> xfmedia crashes while trying to play audiocd
[08:05] <nomed> janimo, i think mplayer is too complicated :)
[08:05] <nomed> yes
[08:06] <Gloubiboulga> xine-ui always worked fine for me
[08:06] <janimo> ok, xine-ui should be good
[08:06] <janimo> but have to see if it uses only libxine-main (the free codecs)
[08:07] <ranf> hi
[08:07] <janimo> hi
[08:07] <janimo> archive manager, we don;t have one
[08:07] <janimo> we may need to package xarchive{r} 
[08:08] <nomed> yep
[08:08] <janimo> since debian has ITP but no package last time Ilooked
[08:08] <janimo> I haven;t used either so I could not say which is better (stable, small, fast other criteria)
[08:08] <janimo> stable is preferable
[08:08] <nomed> janimo, xarchive works fine ...
[08:08] <nomed> but i normally use the shell ...
[08:08] <janimo> is that the one in C or the one that calls out ot shell scripts?
[08:09] <janimo> nomed but it's not packaged right?
[08:09] <nomed> it calls out shell scripts
[08:09] <nomed> in universe i think
[08:09] <nomed> let me check
[08:09] <janimo> could you investigate both and see which is better?
[08:09] <janimo> we canot wait for debian with this
[08:10] <nomed> k
[08:10] <nomed> janimo, i think i pkged it :/
[08:10] <janimo> so we have to decide on player and archiver 
[08:10] <janimo> nomed, good
[08:11] <nomed> xarchive is not in universe
[08:11] <janimo> nomed, not it is not
[08:11] <nomed> does that mean we can't use it ?
[08:11] <janimo> we should package it and get it in as part of xubuntu dapper goal
[08:11] <nomed> this UpstreamFreeze is driving me crazy :)
[08:11] <nomed> k
[08:12] <janimo> next, libraries
[08:12] <janimo> all gnomeprint/canvas ones are ok
[08:13] <nomed> perfect ...
[08:13] <nomed> so abiword is usable as it is now ?
[08:13] <janimo> abiword doe snotr dep on gnome
[08:13] <janimo> gconf and gnome-keyring are brought in by gdm
[08:13] <janimo> and update manager so we need to dep on them as well :(
[08:14] <nomed> it was the second question :)
[08:14] <janimo> when we get to write the doc: we wil definitely specify there is default and on CD install, just as with ubuntu
[08:14] <nomed> janimo, we should write down a list of all the ubuntu pkges 
[08:14] <nomed> i mean
[08:14] <janimo> universe vs main: they are getting promoted, I will ping today about their status
[08:15] <nomed> as ... update manager 
[08:15] <janimo> nomed, well proposed packages is a mess
[08:15] <janimo> we may need to clean that page
[08:15] <nomed> janimo, i mean those ubuntu specific pkges
[08:15] <janimo> what ubuntu specific ones?
[08:16] <janimo> ?
[08:16] <nomed> hwdb-client udpatemanager
[08:16] <nomed> and so on
[08:16] <janimo> Item 2) Is the aim to be as well-integrated as Ubuntu?
[08:16] <janimo> update manager deps on gconf only so yes it will be in
[08:16] <janimo> I may try to make that dep optional too but ni guarrantees
[08:16] <janimo> hwdb deps on gnome too
[08:17] <janimo> if gnome-python were split it would help solving both these
[08:17] <janimo> probbaly that is what we'll try to do and persuade seb to take the patch
[08:17] <janimo> 2) Is the aim to be as well-integrated as Ubuntu?
[08:17] <janimo> would be nice but no time for dapper for sure
[08:18] <janimo> network manager will be on the CD for people to try it out if they wish
[08:18] <janimo> same for power manager and other gnome niceties which are small
[08:18] <nomed> k
[08:18] <janimo> ivman, installed by default but not started
[08:18] <janimo> ok?
[08:19] <janimo> or maybe only on the CD? as most people will not have heard of it so won;t need it
[08:19] <nomed> yes
[08:19] <janimo> maybe on the CD only to keep install as small as posiible
[08:19] <nomed> janimo, well or installed and started ..
[08:19] <nomed> on just on the install cd ..
[08:19] <janimo> anyway will not be started or it will conflict with thunar
[08:19] <janimo> right, so on the CD but not in default install
[08:19] <nomed> k
[08:19] <janimo> desktop icons, we'll porbbaly make them default in xfdekstop
[08:20] <janimo> desktop notifications: I don';t know what could use them right now so probably not
[08:20] <janimo> 3)artwork
[08:21] <janimo> logo: I am very determined to use the mouse in circle
[08:21] <nomed> +1
[08:21] <janimo> but not sure about colors
[08:21] <nomed> yes
[08:21] <nomed> color scheme should be defined
[08:21] <janimo> this is something everyone will have an opinion about
[08:22] <janimo> hmm, but by whom? ubuntu-art, upstream xfce-art ?
[08:22] <janimo> they shoudl al lhave a say in that
[08:22] <janimo> even xfce upstream has not deicded on what to use fro 4.4
[08:23] <nomed> janimo, that theme i proposed is the one on which an xfce artist is working
[08:23] <janimo> icon theme: what is the status of tango with xfce?
[08:23] <janimo> nomed, yes I saw that on xfce-dev
[08:23] <nomed> janimo, it'll be just a little step
[08:23] <nomed> different for icon-naming spec ..
[08:23] <janimo> we may just use the rodent icon theme with the naming spec improvements they add until 4.4?
[08:23] <janimo> tango I find nicer
[08:24] <janimo> but maybe it's not complete enough
[08:24] <janimo> gtk engine should preferably be one of the fast ones
[08:24] <janimo> maybe not a cairo based on
[08:24] <nomed> i think an artist should propose something for this
[08:25] <janimo> do you have contacts with ubuntu art or xfce art by any chance?
[08:25] <janimo> cause I don;t
[08:25] <janimo> we have to invite these guys
[08:25] <nomed> we can try to post a message on the list
[08:25] <janimo> would be nice
[08:25] <nomed> artnay, ping ?
[08:25] <janimo> want to do it?
[08:26] <nomed> janimo, we can ask directly to artnay if he is here ..
[08:26] <janimo> ok
[08:26] <nomed> maybe he can do that
[08:26] <nomed> janimo, the problem here is that 
[08:26] <nomed> first of all ...
[08:26] <janimo> he;s over in ubuntu-artwork
[08:26] <nomed> we should define a color palette
[08:27] <janimo> this is something I know little about
[08:27] <janimo> and a sensitive subject since it involves taste
[08:27] <nomed> eehehe
[08:27] <janimo> really the only input so far is do not look like kde
[08:27] <janimo> although I am not sure why the logo looks like kde, it does not really
[08:27] <nomed> janimo, graphite theme is neutral .....
[08:27] <janimo> blue but different
[08:28] <nomed> and it's ok even with blue ...
[08:28] <janimo> I like blue too
[08:29] <nomed> but xubuntu-artists are needed here :/
[08:29] <janimo> but i quickly get used to any color theme
[08:29] <janimo> I hope to get the first ISO out soon, and then in the announcement will ask for artists/docmuenters/translators
[08:29] <janimo> need to ping Colin and see possible ETA for CD building
[08:30] <nomed> that's would help very much
[08:30] <nomed> to get more people in xubuntu ...
[08:30] <janimo> you see even ubuntu gnome is undecided on art stuff and other things related to look and feel (logout dialog)
[08:31] <nomed> janimo, their problem is different .. i think
[08:31] <nomed> they've too much stuff :)
[08:31] <janimo> well once we announce we will have too :)
[08:31] <nomed> :)
[08:31] <janimo> proposals for themes/colors/flames :)
[08:31] <janimo> 4)Tasks
[08:31] <janimo> so we could meet in a week from now, same hour?
[08:32] <nomed> for me it's ok
[08:32] <janimo> till then, I'll hope to have evince, CD build sorted out
[08:32] <Gloubiboulga> I'll be there if my presence is needed :)
[08:32] <janimo> could you look into xarchiver and xarcvhive and see which is better?
[08:32] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: sure
[08:33] <nomed> i can yes
[08:33] <janimo> we need to decide on panel layout and menu
[08:33] <nomed> janimo, yes
[08:33] <janimo> I'll put something saner but not final next upload
[08:33] <janimo> so the panels are stretched 
[08:34] <nomed> janimo, i'll write a wiki page for that ..
[08:34] <nomed> panel and menu
[08:34] <janimo> ok thanks, mail the report of xarchiver to xubuntu-dev
[08:34] <janimo> ok
[08:34] <nomed> ok
[08:34] <janimo> do you intend to package them too?
[08:34] <nomed> janimo, i can pkge them ...
[08:35] <janimo> if so put biinary debs or source packagesomewhere
[08:35] <janimo> but if not it's ok just say which is stabler
[08:35] <janimo> and generally better
[08:35] <nomed> ok
[08:35] <janimo> no need to package bith if we willonly use one
[08:35] <janimo> both
[08:35] <janimo> thanks
[08:35] <janimo> anything else?
[08:35] <nomed> janimo, no
[08:35] <janimo> we finsihed undr an hour, good :)
[08:35] <nomed> :)
[08:36] <janimo> ok have a nice evening then :)
[08:36] <Gloubiboulga> cu janimo 
[08:36] <janimo> see you next week, with hopefully good progress done
[08:36] <nomed> cu janimo Gloubiboulga 
[08:36] <Gloubiboulga> bye nomed 
[08:36] <janimo> by Gloubiboulga
[08:36] <Vinze> Guess I"m late...
[08:36] <janimo> Vinze, yes :)
[08:36] <Vinze> Crap
[08:36] <janimo> you can read the backlog
[08:37] <Vinze> Anyway, I can do some translating...
[08:37] <janimo> that would be great
[08:37] <janimo> FR?
[08:37] <Vinze> NL
[08:37] <Vinze> I already help a bit on Xfce
[08:37] <Vinze> I did Thunar
[08:37] <janimo> good, we need translators
[08:37] <janimo> will probably ask on xfce-i18n once we have an iso out
[08:37] <Vinze> k
[08:38] <Vinze> I'm on that so I guess I'll notive
[08:38] <Vinze> notice
[08:46] <LaserJock> mdz: did you happen to get an email from crimsun about me (Jordan Mantha)?
[08:46] <mdz> no
[08:46] <LaserJock> :/
[08:56] <mjg59> Hi
[08:57] <mdz> hi
[08:57] <sistpoty> hi folks
[08:57] <Vinze> Hey
[08:57] <LaserJock> hi everybody
[08:57] <Vinze> Hey
[08:58] <sabdfl> evening all
[08:58] <Vinze> hey
[08:59] <mdz> I've sent an SMS to Keybuk
[08:59] <mdz> only recurring items on the agenda today
[09:00] <mdz> we'll begin; hopefully Keybuk will join us
[09:01] <sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[09:01] <mdz> I think all of the pending membership applications for ubuntu-core-dev are invalid
[09:01] <mjg59> mdz: Matches what I thought
[09:01] <dholbach> mdz: I had no answer back from all of them.
[09:01] <sabdfl> yup
[09:01] <mdz> none of them are MOTUs or had prior contact with the TB about their applications
[09:02] <mdz> so I'll decline them all with an appropriate comment
[09:02] <sabdfl> i'll do that while you guys get stated on MOTU
[09:02] <mdz> ok, thanks
[09:02] <mdz> LaserJock: you're here?
[09:03] <mdz> glad you could make it at the scheduled time
[09:03] <LaserJock> well, I'm ditching a RL meeting to be here so hopefully I won't get in too much trouble
[09:03] <LaserJock> ;-)
[09:03] <mdz> daring
[09:03] <mdz> LaserJock: I have your wiki page up, but would you like to summarize in a few sentences what it's all about for you?
[09:04] <LaserJock> I got started working for MOTU because I had a problem with a package and I wanted to fix
[09:04] <LaserJock> it
[09:04] <LaserJock> and Ubuntu was the first distro I  truly felt a part of the community and wanted to give back
[09:05] <LaserJock> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-February/015279.html is an interview dholbach did of me for the MOTU Report
[09:05] <sabdfl> LaserJock: any suggestions for ways we can boost Utnubu?
[09:06] <LaserJock> sabdfl: I think the biggest thing is getting new MOTU wannabes involved and making it easy to get in touch with people
[09:06] <sabdfl> ok
[09:06] <LaserJock> most of the old timers know what they are doing or are more "set" in their ways
[09:06] <sabdfl> great wiki page, btw, very well laid out
[09:06] <mdz> LaserJock: can you tell us a bit about MOTUScience and your goals for it?
[09:07] <sabdfl> LaserJock: would you be interested in an Ubuntu derivative specifically for university use?
[09:07] <LaserJock> mdz: My main goal is to make sure that Ubuntu keeps up with Debian, and where possible provide a pathway for interested scientists to contribute
[09:07] <mdz> LaserJock: in what ways can we make Ubuntu more useful to the science community?
[09:07] <LaserJock> sabdfl: I'm more interested in making Ubuntu a good desktop for scientific use rather than a derivative, but Edubuntu is promising
[09:08] <LaserJock> mdz: providing free/open source packages as alternatives to traditional, expensive, proprietary apps
[09:08] <sabdfl> do you see the scientific community as different from the university one?
[09:08] <LaserJock> see w.u.c/UbuntuScientists for example
[09:08] <ogra_> yes, i hopw to work closer with the MOTUScience team for dapper+1, we want to get other apps in and also provide a more marture set of apps 
[09:08] <ogra_> *hope
[09:09] <mdz> LaserJock: are there many plausible alternatives to proprietary scientific apps which are not yet available in Ubuntu?
[09:09] <mjg59> LaserJock: How do you think we can effectively market Ubuntu to scientists?
[09:09] <LaserJock> sabdfl: in some ways. the scientific community often lives inside the university, but is more geared towards research instead of education (in the traditional sense)
 Hotel.  No Internet Access.
[09:10] <LaserJock> mdz: yes, some. Kyral has been working on FlowDesigner for MOTUScience.
[09:10] <LaserJock> mjg59: By being a great desktop while also being able to provide scientific packages that are up-to-date, bug free ;-), and getting new packages in
[09:11] <sabdfl> mdz: is keybuk traveling for you?
[09:11] <mdz> sabdfl: yes
[09:11] <LaserJock> I am particularly interested in people using Ubuntu for writing dissertations and publications, data analysis,etc.
[09:12] <LaserJock> but a guy in the department yesterday had me get him an Ubuntu disk to put on his computational cluster because it worked better than SuSE
[09:12] <mdz> LaserJock: apart from improving Ubuntu to make it appealing to scientists, how can we let them know that it exists and might be useful to them?
[09:12] <mjg59> LaserJock: As a final year PhD student myself, I'm very interested in ways that I can get more people in the community running Ubuntu :)
[09:12] <sabdfl> ok, +1 for LaserJock from me
[09:13] <mdz> LaserJock: who has been sponsoring your uploads so far?
[09:13] <LaserJock> mdz: I think there is a pretty solid scientific base in Ubuntu, I think marketing Ubuntu as being able to run your science apps + having a good desktop experience
[09:14] <LaserJock> mjg59: by making it easy for students/researchers to get there work done and not getting in the way
[09:14] <lucas> being a MOTU, I was actually surprised to learn that LaserJock wasn't a MOTU yet. He really did a lot of excellent work inside MOTU, and he has been around for longer than I have. I very strongly recommend him for MOTU.
[09:14] <sistpoty> LaserJock has been around for a very long time, and his packaging work is really good :)
[09:14] <mdz> dholbach: any comments on LaserJock?
[09:15] <LaserJock> mdz: crimsun and \sh did a lot of sponsoring for me but again, crimsun was unable to make the meeting (I asked him to email dholbach or mdz) and \sh is sorta away it seems
[09:15] <dholbach> after there was not a real agreement on him in the last TB meeting I had a look at some of his patches/uploads and they were ok for me
[09:15] <mdz> thanks
[09:15] <LaserJock> Riddell also uploaded my first package from scratch (plotdrop)
[09:16] <mdz> Riddell: around?
[09:17] <Riddell> yes, plotdrop was in good shape when I reviewed it, which I think was after a few revisions on revu, so I advocate LaserJock as much as I can from 1 package 
[09:17] <LaserJock> I think the 2 big issues as far as MOTUScience goes is licensing (getting upstreams to have DFSG free licenses) and bugs (lots of science apps are poorly maintained)
[09:18] <mdz> mjg59: any further questions?
[09:18] <LaserJock> I hope by organizing interested parties around science related apps we can help solve those issues
[09:18] <dholbach> those uploads weren't hardcore-deep-down-fixes, but what I like about LaserJock is that he tries to organize the MOTU world a bit and I think he'll be an asset for the last-weeks-fixing-up-dappers-universe - and I like his honesty, I don't think he would upload packages without being really sure (or having asked others)
[09:18] <mjg59> Nope, I think the combination of this and last time is good for me
[09:19] <mdz> ok
[09:19] <mdz> +1 from me based on peer recommendations and history of working within the community
[09:19] <mjg59> +1 for working on stuff I'd be doing if I had more time
[09:20] <mdz> ;-)
[09:20] <mdz> LaserJock: congratulations and welcome aboard
[09:20] <dholbach> congratulations LaserJock
[09:20] <sistpoty> congrats LaserJock! finally :)
[09:20] <lucas> :-) very good choice to get him in :-)
[09:20] <mdz> I think we had a couple of folks from the last meeting who were deferred due to lack of time
[09:20] <LaserJock> thanks TB and thanks all the MOTUs and wannabes
[09:20] <sabdfl> well done LaserJock
[09:20] <mdz> is anyone here in that category?
[09:21] <ogra> yay LaserJock !!
[09:21] <sivang> LaserJock: congrets!!
[09:21] <mdz> OK, if not, is there anyone else present who is applying for ubuntu-dev/MOTU membership/
[09:21] <mdz> s,/,?/
[09:21] <Tonio_> congrats LaserJock :)
[09:22] <jpatrick> congrats LaserJock :)
[09:22] <mdz> Ivailo Ivanov?
[09:22] <mdz> freeflying?
[09:22] <jpatrick> sleeping
[09:23] <mdz> if not, then we're finished
[09:23] <mdz> with memberships
[09:23] <mdz> is there any other business?
[09:24] <ogra> looks like we're done ...
[09:24] <mdz> hearing none, adjourned
[09:24] <dholbach> that must have been one of the quickest TB meetings :)
[09:24] <mdz> thanks, everyone
[09:24] <mjg59> Cool
[09:24] <mdz> mjg59: do you have a few minutes to send a summary to -devel-announce? should be a short one
[09:24] <mdz> mjg59: and I have to finish writing the last one
[09:24] <ogra> dholbach, we had quicker ones :) .... but that was really fast ... its carnival in 50% of the world :)
[09:25] <ogra> heh
[09:25] <sabdfl> night all
[09:25] <dolson> bye sabdfl
[09:25] <dholbach> night sabdfl
[09:25] <sabdfl> must mean that ubuntu dev's like to samba...
[09:25] <ogra> ciao sabdfl 
[09:26] <sivang> mjg59: when you have a minute, we have an emacs problem we need to fix under xgl ;-)