/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/03/06/#ubuntu-devel.txt

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elmowhat is galeon doing when I click on a link? it's certainly not opening it anymore.  was it broken by the firefox change?12:21
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Burgworkelmo, likely the same was as epiphany12:28
Kamionmjg59: are you sure about a separate CD image? I think it should just be an ISO9660/HFS+ hybrid like we do for powerpc12:29
Kamionanyway, bedtime12:29
mjg59Kamion: If that's practical for the dapper timeframe, sure12:30
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jvwsabdfl: Just curious, is every DPL also an Ubuntu Project Leader? ;-)12:41
ograhaha12:41
tsengjvw: indirectly depending on your perspective12:42
LaserJockmaybe we should have a DPL LP team ;-)12:44
Burgworkjvw, in so much as decisions that affect Debian affect Ubuntu, yes12:44
SeveasBurgwork, regarding the keycodes: if you map the flag to a command you can no longer map flag+$key to anything and vice versa...12:44
BurgworkSeveas, ugh12:45
dholbachgood night guys12:45
BurgworkSeveas, I consider that a bug12:45
Seveasme too12:45
=== sivang notices the shift sticky keys pop ups hoola
sivang(pressed it accidently more then 8 seconds)12:46
Burgworksabdfl, where the shuttleworth foundation at with releasing the specs to the freedom toaster?12:54
sabdflBurgwork: i believe it's all public12:55
sabdflcheck with jason@shuttleworthfoundation.org12:55
Burgworksabdfl, ok, cheers12:55
Pygianyone know when will multiple mount points  be fixed? I mean, it only requires a little patch, nothing else :)12:58
BurgworkPygi, have you filed a bug with the patch?12:58
PygiBurgwork: Not really :-/ But that is known bug I think...12:59
BurgworkPygi, if it isn't, please file. This is a channel for discussing your patch to the bug, not the bug itself12:59
Pygiok, ok, sorry :)01:00
BurgworkPygi, np01:00
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sabdflnight freedom lovers01:20
tsengg'night mark01:21
ajmitch_night01:22
sistpotygn8 sabdfl01:22
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sivangnight sabdfl !01:28
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Mezmdz: ping01:36
mdzyes?01:36
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infinitymdz: Can I get a UVF exception to sync mod_perl2?  It's a bugfix release, has been cooking in sid for a month with no new bugs, and looks safe to me.01:57
Mezah sorry mdz: didnt see you reply there.01:58
Mezmdz: wanted to talk about now the new structure stuff is in place whether we can get access (or i can) get access to upload to the backports pocket01:59
Mezso we can backport stuff like scim01:59
MezI've spoken to mark breifly about it (asking whether it was a CC or TB thing) and he said that all it really needed was to convince you that backports people (aka me) were sane and sensible01:59
infinityMez: So, are you? :)02:00
mdzMez: what's the issue with scim?02:00
Mezmdz: the control hack doesnt work02:00
mdzwhy not?02:00
Mezit just wont register the changes to the control file and still builds the dapper packages02:00
MezI mean - it'd only be on rare occasions that things were uploaded manually ... but it'd be useful to have it there02:01
Mezinfinity, depends on who you ask (the sane bit anyway)02:01
infinityMez: Surely, if the control hack isn't working, it was implemented incorrectly...02:02
infinityMez: Do you have a source package somewhere I can look at for you?02:02
Mezinfinity lemme just go and check if I deleted it or not02:02
infinity(Of course, I'm still morally opposed to swapping control files mid-build, but I doubt my opposition counts for much these days, when we have a bunch of packages doing it)02:03
Mezinfinity - gimme one sec and I'll upload to revu02:03
Mezinfinity, as am i - which is why I'd prefer a manual upload for it02:03
infinityMez: Good work on dealing with Eugene as an upstream, BTW.  He's not always the easiest man to work with.02:04
Mezinfinity: really? he seems to like me :D02:05
Mezhe's even provided me with a free Rar licence :D02:05
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tenmonhow much difficult is to get a package on official repos ?02:06
infinityMez: Lovely.  Time to use that newfound influence to ask him if we can build rar on multiple architectures for him. ;)02:06
Mezinfinity, lol - he seems to be quite responsive and stuff - what problems have we had working with him before?02:06
sistpotyMez: btw. can you add a comment stating that it's for backports after you've uploaded to revu? thx.02:06
Mezsistpoty, no probs02:06
sistpotythx02:06
MezI'll archive it straight away :D02:06
infinityMez: Oh, just general problems with arrogance and stubbornness.  In other words: He's a programmer.02:07
sistpotyMez: even better ;)02:07
ajmitch_infinity: sounds like many people I know02:07
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sistpotytenmon: depends on the packaging... for dapper we're in feature-freeze right now, meaning that we can accept new packages only for dapper+102:07
Mezinfinity, I've not really come across that - I guess users he might be weird with - but I think he believes I know what I'm doing :D02:08
Mezthough making it build on multi-arches ... I dunno...02:08
tenmonsistpoty: I should submit to debian first then?02:08
MezI dont think he'll release the source code02:08
Arroganceinfinity, and thank you for noticing02:08
Arrogancealthough I don't know stubbornness02:08
infinityMez: He might release it under and NDA (so we still can only distribute binaries, but we could BIULD for all arches and provide those binaries to him)02:08
infinityMez: If you asked really, really nicely. :P02:09
sistpotytenmon: that's always an option... that way the package will get autosynced for dapper+102:09
tenmonsistpoty: ok, thanks02:09
Mezinfinity, cool - would you be willing to provide the hardware to build on ?02:09
infinityMez: s/and NDA/an NDA/02:09
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infinityMez: It could be worked out, if he was into the idea.02:09
Mezinfinity: I'll chat with him and see what he thinks02:10
Mezsistpoty: ping02:11
sistpotyMez: pong02:11
infinityMez: Although, you could already cleverly package his binaries for amd64 (and have the package depend on libc6-i386), if you wanted to cover two arches...02:11
Mezsistpoty, where on tiber is the FTP incoming dir - I need something deleted them02:11
Mezinfinity, lol02:11
sistpotyMez: /home/ftp/incoming... I'll take a look02:11
sistpotyMez: what package?02:12
Mezscim02:12
sistpotyMez: deleted02:13
Mezcheers02:13
Mezinfinity - I'll CC: you02:13
Mezstill adconrad@0c3.net02:13
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infinityMez: Yup.02:15
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Mezinfinity, sent :D02:21
MezIt's worth a try02:22
Mezmdz: but what do you think about the possibility of it?02:24
ograargl argl argl 02:24
Mezoy oy oy ?02:24
Mezhola ogra02:24
ograxine-ui actually includes the complete xscreensaver-command source to send a fake event all 30 seconds ... 02:25
Mezlol02:25
ogra*sigh*02:25
Mezinfinity, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=208102:27
ajmitch_ogra: that is quite an impressive waste of code02:27
ograajmitch_, yup02:27
ograyou can write a fake event function for X in about 30 lines ... (including declarations and comments)02:28
ograxscreensaver-command is 650 lines .... and not much of it will be used ...02:29
mjg59Programs that directly interface with xscreensaver deserve to lose02:29
elmoargh, are you kidding me02:31
elmowe don't migrate preferences from xscreensaver to gnome-screensaver?02:31
ograelmo, working on it 02:31
ogracurrently i'm hitting all the media players to recpect g-s-s ...02:32
elmoogra: ah, ok, great02:32
elmoogra: actually, I mean user preferences02:32
ograits very intresting, verey player has its own solution ...02:32
mdzMez: I don't like the idea of backports being a branch02:32
mdzMez: the problem with scim just sounds like a bug02:32
ograelmo, https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3151102:33
Ubugtumalone bug 31511 in gnome-screensaver "Settings lost during an upgrade" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  02:33
Mezmdz: surely it already is ?02:33
elmoogra: ok, cool02:33
mdzMez: it isn't; it's a build system02:33
infinityMez: Well, right now it's a binary branch, but not a source branch, which makes it more manageable (generally)02:33
elmoogra: also gnome-screensaver's config doesn't seem to list some hacks, have I got some reduced subset installed?02:33
elmolost02:33
Mezah: ok...02:34
Mezbut mdz: surely you can see my POV to get rid of dirty hacks like this ?02:34
ograelmo, do you have xscreensaver-data-extra and xscreensaver-gl-extra installed ? 02:34
Mezand also means we might be able to backport more things02:34
mdzMez: why do you even need a control file hack with scim? it looks like it should build unmodified on breezy02:35
Mezmdz: it'll build - yes02:35
Mezbut - thngs depend on libscim8 in breezy02:35
Mezand libscim8c2a in dapper02:35
elmoogra: no.  meh.02:35
ograelmo, xscreensaver-data and -gl only contain the selection we enabled by default since warty ... the rest went into the -extra packages02:35
ograso we save 5MB on the Cd :)02:35
mdzah, right02:35
Mezand well - we dont wanna go and backport the 20 packages that depend on it :D02:36
Mezs/20/1802:36
mdzMez: that's a problem specific to breezy, which will disappear with Dapper and hopefully not happen for a long time after, but I see your point02:37
Mez(which includes libstdc++6)02:37
mdzMez: still, it seems better to keep all of the code in one place; when it's updated in dapper, you don't need to do a merge02:37
mdzit's less error-prone once it's working02:37
=== infinity looks at this upload right now to see why it's not working.
Mezmdz: true - but well - theres stuff thats been backported thats now a newer version in dapper...02:38
Mezlol - and thats stayed the same without a merge :D02:38
mdzMez: what do you mean?02:38
Mezmdz: for example02:38
mdzeither you modify the source relative to dapper, or you don't02:38
mdzif you modify it, you need to do a merge when it's updated02:38
Mezhttp://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=k3b02:39
infinityI think his point is that updates in dapper aren't automatically backported, which I assume is a feature, not a bug.02:39
Mezin bacports it 0.12.702:39
Mezinfinity - yes that was my point02:39
mdzok, then you're misunderstanding what I'm saying02:39
Mezmdz: asI said - this is only going to be for a couple of one off things like scim02:39
mdza merge is where you need to reconcile two branches of code02:39
infinityMez: Feh.  You didn't do this upload relative to the current source in dapper. :)02:39
mdzwhereas what we have today is copying the source (not even) from one place to another02:40
Mezinfinity - has it been updated in dapper?02:40
Mezgrr02:40
Mezmdz: I agree...02:40
Mezbut as I said - for the most part, other than the odd occasion - it'll stay the same...02:40
mdzthere were quality problems with the old backports where they diverged02:40
Mezmdz: I know :D02:40
Mezlol02:40
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Mezhowever: none of them were caused by me02:41
=== infinity watches ia64 slowly catch up...
Mezinfinity: I'll grab the latest copy of scim and make the chanegs - didnt realise it had been changed in dapper recently02:42
Mezinfiity: wait - wtf you on about - it is relative to the current source in dapper02:43
infinityMez: Current scim in dapper is -1ubuntu1... Which is also what you gave me.02:43
Mezinfinity, yeah ...02:44
Mezer. ..02:44
Mezbut mine has changes02:44
Mezoh02:44
MezI see what you mean :D02:44
Mezlol02:44
MezI didnt realise there'd been a scim hack for ubuntu 02:44
infinityMez: Also, you don't need to build-depend on "base-files"... It's an essential package.02:46
infinity(A system would be pretty broken without it)02:46
mdzMez: how about this: I'm happy for ubuntu-core-dev to be able to upload to -backports, so if the changes are reviewed and uploaded by a core dev, the source can diverge02:46
Mezmdz: that sounds cool to me02:46
infinitymdz: That would work for me.02:46
mdzdone02:46
Mezand gives me a reason to go for my core-dev :D02:46
Mez(which I've been holding off as I dont need it atm)02:46
infinitymdz: It would also mean that for those of us who handle backportability in our own packages (thinking of me and pitti here, at least), we can remove some dirty hacks and do direct backports uploads.02:47
mdzinfinity: yep02:49
Mezmdz: sounds good to me if you're willing for it - just lemme know what needs to be done on my side - if anything02:49
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mdzMez: I'll take it from here02:50
infinity(Although, there's a certin point of perverse pride in knowing that everything I maintain can build, in some hackish way or other, on sarge, etch, hoary, breezy, and dapper)02:51
Mezmdz: cool - expect a core-dev application from me within the next few months then02:51
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mdzMez: expect some hard questions from the board ;-)02:51
ajmitch_Mez: you think you're ready for it?02:52
=== infinity might want so show up for that once, since he's been sponsoring Mez in Debian.
Mezajmitch_, hence why I said in the next few months02:52
infinitys/once/one/02:52
LaserJockhmm, so would LP be good for any distro to use?02:52
infinityLaserJock: Not yet, but that's certainly the plan.02:52
Mezajmitch: I dont really need it to be honest - I've had no problem getting stuff sponsored anyways02:52
infinityLaserJock: For now, it's getting to the point where any Debian/Ubuntu derivative could use it end-to-end, but we don't have (for instance) buildd support for RPM-based systems.02:53
LaserJockinfinity: I'm talking with some Fink devs right now.02:53
infinityAhh, fink is dpkg-based, yes?02:53
LaserJockyes02:54
LaserJockI just wonder if there is anything that LP could offer them02:54
infinityThen, in theory, LP could be made to support fink reasonably easily, with a bit of hacking and some prayer.02:54
infinityLaserJock: You'd really need to talk to the LP team (and include Mark) to get an idea of A) how much work it would be, and B) how much priority/manpower we could throw at the problem.02:54
infinityLaserJock: So, #launchpad would be a good start.02:55
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LaserJockinfinity: yeah, thanks02:55
Mezinfinity - I'll er - do a merge :D02:57
infinityMez: Thanks.02:57
=== infinity grabs some lunch.
Mezinfinity, though the B-D on base-files is neccesary - as well - when we were backporting KDE - that caused problems with the control hack in that02:59
infinityMez: It's impossoble for a buildd chroot to NOT have base-files installed.03:00
infinityimpossible, too.03:00
infinityMez: If you've found one that somehow claims not to, yell at me.03:00
infinityMez: Cause it'd be VERY broken.03:01
Mezinfinity: lol - well er - I'm working with pbuilds :D03:01
Mezand it doesnt seem to grab the Essential stuff there03:01
infinityMez: Same deal.  pbuilder shouldn't be able to make a chroot that's missing "Essential: yes" packages.03:01
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Mezinfinity, weird: because it screwed up a KDE backport cause of that03:02
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ajmitch_mdz: are TB meetings going to remain at 2000UTC?03:04
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Mezsistpoty, ping03:11
sistpotyMez: pong03:11
Mezsistpoty, I cant get nuke_upload.py to work03:12
sistpotyMez: basically you shouldn't ;)03:12
Mezsistpoty, why not?03:12
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sistpotyMez: you can do it with the web-interface ;)03:12
Mezcan I?03:12
Mezwhere?03:12
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sistpotyMez: just a second, I'll check if you are set to admin, otherwise you can't nuke uploads03:13
aal2000Howdy, is there a ppc specific development channel ?03:13
Mezah thts prob y then03:13
MezI'm not03:13
mdzajmitch_: until someone proposes a different scheme and the board agrees...otherwise inertia wins03:13
sistpotyMez: now you should be able to do it ;)03:15
Mezsistpoty, lol - I just updated myself aswell03:16
Mezlol03:16
sistpotyhehe03:16
sistpotyMez: problem with nuke_uploads is, that I simply don't know if it's still current/what hacks reside in it (if any) and you might need sudo-rights for it03:16
Mezsistpoty, I cant see a nuke button03:16
sistpotyMez: you'll need to archive an upload first. then you'll have a nuke link in the list right next to unarchive03:17
Mezarchive then nuke03:17
sistpotyhehe... your faster than I write ;)03:17
Mez;)03:17
aal2000Who can I speak to in relation to adding a piece of software to the ubuntu distribution?03:18
aal2000It's for imac G5 SMU control.  03:18
Mezsistpoty, surely there should be a "are you sure" for nuking stuff?03:18
sistpotyMez: bah... the solution is to give admin-rights only to ppl. who know what they're doing... ;)03:19
freeflyingaal2000: add your software to wiki/MOTU/Candidates03:19
Mezsistpoty, true - but it's kinda disconcerting03:19
sistpotyMez: revu1 is basically a crude hack... I guess we can add this to revu203:20
ajmitch_Mez: just use it with caution then03:20
Mezajmitch_, I will dont worry - lol - but all it takes is an accidental click03:20
aal2000freeflying: thanks.03:20
sistpotyMez: you'll need to archive an upload first... so you'll need two accidents ;)03:21
Mezsistpoty, can I hack in a javascript yes no?03:21
Mezsistpoty - not if you accidentally nuke an archived upload instead of unarchiving03:21
sistpotyMez: javascript in the comment fields? yes, that's possible, since it doesn't check for anything... though you'll need at least a revu-account to post comments03:22
Mezsistpoty, no I mean - add in a hack for the nuke link03:23
Mezso it doesnt nuke it unless you click a javascript box saying yes03:23
sistpotyMez: hm... might be worth a try, though I generally dislike javasript03:24
Mezor even another "confirm" page03:24
sistpotyMez: imo a confirm-page would be better... thus you can use revu full-featured with js disabled as well03:25
infinityOr instead of another page (which is another round-trip), just a checkbox under the "nuke" button that says "yes, I know what I'm doing"03:25
Mezinfinity, or even better "no, I'm not an idiot"03:25
sistpotyhehe03:25
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Mezthough I wouldnt be able to use it then03:26
Mezhey seth03:26
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sethhey Mez 03:26
sistpotyhowever as stated before... revu1 is nothing but a crude hack, and changing it is *erm* hacking even more hacks to a screwed up design... I'd rather work on revu2 than change revu1 ;)03:26
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elmognome-screensaver is still horribly horribly slow to bring the unlock dialog up04:20
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sladenelmo: please sync hotkey-setup 0.1-14 from sid.  This has been outstanding for about a fortnight04:35
sistpotygood night everyone04:37
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Mezinfinity - did you see my latest upload to revu?05:06
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fabbionemorning05:14
ajmitch_morning fabbione 05:15
infinityMez: Err, no.  I'm revu illiterate.  URL?05:16
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sladeninfinity: probably http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=208205:21
infinitysladen: That does seem likely, yes.05:27
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jdubwhiprush: what are all these photos in your flickr feed?07:04
whiprushjdub: blogging now.07:06
whiprushgimme 507:06
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jdubwhiprush: heh07:08
ajmitch_whiprush: so we have to sit at your blog hitting refresh to find out?07:09
Burglaptopjdub: I need your help in #edubuntu07:11
Burglaptopok, general irc question. If i have ops with one nick and I link my other nicks, do all have ops?07:14
Burglaptopand I seriously need help in #edubuntu07:14
ajmitch_Burglaptop: they should07:15
Burglaptopok07:15
whiprushjdub: http://www.whiprush.org/2006/03/tegnologiedetro.html07:15
ajmitch_whiprush: nicely done07:17
Burglaptopvery cool07:17
=== whiprush fixes grammar post haste
ajmitch_hm, f-spot 0.1.20, I'm glad I'm not basing this version on upstream'07:17
ajmitch_s sleep-deprived typos07:18
Treenakswhiprush: heh.. I always have to do that after posting on my blog :)07:18
Treenakswhiprush: *post* *re-read* *last-second-fixes* *planet comes by*07:19
Burglaptopwhiprush: that networking bug should be fixed in dapper07:19
BurglaptopTreenaks: indeed07:19
jdubwhiprush: eh, sweet :)07:19
whiprushthe trick is to know when to publish. You want to miss a planet feed by a minute, so you have 9 minutes to fix.07:19
jdubwhiprush: btw, you should look for 'mark of cain' music07:19
whiprushmark of cain?07:20
whiprushlike, the guy that killed abel?07:20
jdubturns out they have an official website07:20
jdubhttp://www.tmoc.com.au/07:20
jdubi think you'd dig it07:20
=== whiprush looks.
whiprushthis looks like metal.07:20
Treenaksbtw, the moviegotchis are popular again (because of the new additions)07:21
ealdenwhiprush, hi. does the fridge have an rss feed?07:21
Treenaksso popular that I exceeded my bandwidth quota for February with 2GB07:21
Treenaksealden: it does07:21
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whiprushjdub: it would be nice if the fridge lit up that RSS icon in firefox, the one that shows up in the corner.07:29
jdubhrm, wonder why it doesn't07:30
jdubit has useful link bits07:30
whiprushealden: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/atom/feed should work for you07:30
ealdenwhiprush, ah. there. thanks07:31
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sladenjdub: do you have  <link href="..." rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="..." />  ?07:37
sladen...appears to work for me(tm)07:39
robitaillesame here...the fridge lit up that rss icon in my firefox07:42
Lathiatworks in konqueror here too07:43
jdubwhiprush: you using firefox 1.5 on windows, perchance?07:43
whiprushyep07:45
whiprushat the moment07:45
jdubaha07:45
jdubinteresting07:45
jdubi thought it worked because i was previously looking at ff1.5 in dapper07:45
jdubbut just then, was looking at it in windows07:45
whiprushodd that something like that is platform specific07:46
Lathiatcould be a bug07:46
Lathiatlike in the windowing stuff07:46
Lathiator something07:46
jdubodd like iz gtk boog07:46
Lathiator actually07:46
Lathiatwhat does firefox's rss icon do07:46
Lathiatlaunches what?07:46
whiprushnothing07:46
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whiprushjust lets you bookmark it as a feed07:47
Lathiatoh ok07:47
whiprushwithin the application07:47
Lathiat(in konq, here, it lets me add it to akregator, so i was thinking a little different)07:47
jdubKamion: ping07:48
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Mezmdz or Kamion ping08:14
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MezKamion: can I request an UVF exception for katapult08:52
Mezso as to sync from debian ... and fix a couple of minor bugs08:52
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sivangmorning all09:12
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Burglaptopmorning sivang09:18
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pittiGood morning09:20
zakamehello sivang Burglaptop09:20
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=== sivang hugs pitti
=== sivang hugs zakame
sivangand ofcourse, Burglaptop 09:23
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=== zakame hugs sivang
seb128mdz: around?09:27
seb128mdz: we had a consensus to not ship xchat-gnome for dapper?09:28
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pittihi sivang 09:36
pittihi mvo09:36
sivangmoins mvo 09:37
mvohello pitti, sivang!09:39
Kamionjdub: pong09:40
KamionMez: send us mail with the upstream changelog or NEWS file snippet or whatever, please09:40
MezKamion .... er09:41
Mez*thinks*09:41
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Mezthe changelog isnt complete09:41
Mezbecause of the baz-> bzr changes09:41
Kamionyou're really persuading me here ;-)09:41
Kamiona description of the upstream changes09:41
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MezKamion: the main reason I want to request it is because I'd rather just sync with debian09:56
Mezatm - theres no new usptream version in debian 09:56
Mezbut there will be soon09:56
Mezand I dont believe elmo has got round to syncing it...09:56
Mezso - I'll need an UVF exception if it gets to that after the neew version goes into debian09:57
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jdubKamion: bah, will have to remember to put payloads in my pings again10:02
seb128Kamion: I've changed a couple of GNOME packages to get -dbg binary, should I ping you when I do so? Or so you notice them from NEW? Should I update the supported list to mention them?10:02
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jdubKamion: that's right -> what's up with ubuntu-artwork?10:16
ccharlesso, should i assume that all dapper cd images created are installable without issue? 10:18
KeybukHappy Mailman Day, everyone!10:19
zakameyay, HMD10:20
simiragood morning, Keybuk?10:21
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Keybuksimira: overslept10:23
simiraKeybuk: oh, so you didn't have to shovel yourself out of the hotel today?10:23
pittiHi Keybuk 10:24
Keybukhey berpitt10:26
Keybuk+i10:26
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slomo_lamont, infinity: please give-back tomboy (amd64) and gaim (ppc, ia64, amd64)... thanks10:30
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sivangmorning Keybuk , slomo, jdub , simira 10:33
dholbachhello!10:33
slomo_hi dholbach and sivang :)10:34
dholbachhey slomo_ :)10:34
jdubyo10:34
sivangdholbach: hi10:37
dholbachhi sivang10:38
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sivangdholbach: is it still cold for you there? (getting too hot in here) :)10:40
dholbachit's 1C - that's fine10:40
Mithrandirdholbach: I'd argue that 29658 shouldn't be rejected since C-u works that way in gdm.10:46
dholbachMithrandir: i see, I'll tell upstream.10:47
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jameshseb128: that second bug you asked me to import falls under the same category as the first.  I plan to handle them all in one go, so you shouldn't have to ask again.11:07
seb128jamesh: yeah, I've read your mail and planned to reply but got a bit busy with GNOME 2.13.92, thank you :)11:08
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arpHow can I speak to about HAL?11:16
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pittiarp: by typing questions and comments here :)11:16
arpIt segfaults on ppc64, if I could get the proper configure options I could build it here and debug it.11:16
pittiarp: let's take this to /msg11:17
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slomo_infinity, lamont: please give-back libgnomeui on ppc11:22
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pittiseb128: just trying beagle for main inclusion status; is beagled started automatically somehow? I had to start it by hand11:25
seb128should be started by apps needing it11:25
seb128other way start it by hand11:26
slomo_pitti: when you try to search something when beagled is not running it asks you whether you want to start it (at least in beagle-search)11:26
seb128ie: if nautilus is built with libbeagle it should start it when you try using it11:26
pittithere shouldn't be an autostart .desktop or so?11:26
seb128would be nice probably yep11:26
pittisince it takes ages to get the first index11:26
seb128FC5 has a .desktop for autostart11:26
ccharlespitti: hello :) and thanks for the email. i guess this is where we can talk more, when required. i presume the rest are here as well, right?11:33
pitticcharles: welcome here :) Right11:33
pitticcharles: just /msg me if you have some specific packaging and development tools questions11:33
pitticcharles: discussing new features is fine in this channel11:33
ccharlespitti: will do. thanks. i've got the latest dapper ISO which i'll pop on soon. better than working in emulators, imho11:34
Kamionjdub: failed to build again, see https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-artwork/211:35
WaterSevenUbKamion, not sure what happened but if you choose. F2 Language, "Portuguese", then "F5" , appears an empty box instead of the english strings. Hope nothing important after I provide the translations. Just to let you know.11:35
pittislomo_: yay, dbus built everywhere, thanks :)11:41
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netstarI'm curious will there be checks for beagle to see whether the user is upgrading from an old machine, and thus asked whether they want to populate the beagle database quickly on first boot?11:48
netstars/boot/login11:48
netstarWith large existing home directories it becomes pretty useless.  Especially if that directory is very active.11:49
netstarunless you populate beagles db.11:50
netstarpitti, wait!11:51
=== pitti freezes
netstar2 seconds, I need to double check...11:52
netstarI might have just borked the last package...but I tried to reload hal via dbus and it crashed again...just running the original options again and will try that (sorry)11:52
netstarvery sorry11:52
pittinetstar: right, you killed the local patch in the build tree11:52
pittinetstar: -> /msg again11:53
KamionWaterSevenUb: please file a bug so I remember to look into that12:01
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WaterSevenUbKamion, gfxboot-theme-ubuntu/+bug/33244... u probably want this one too cdrom-checker/+bug/31753 ;-))12:07
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pittiKeybuk: hmm, network-manager doesn't work any more with l-wlan-ng, and it became crashy12:13
pittiKeybuk: I'll check if my l-w-n patches are still ok in the current package, ok?12:14
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Mithrandirdholbach: any idea how well separated the UI in ekiga is from the rest of the functionality?12:19
KamionWaterSevenUb: there's no point telling me about random other bugs right now - you see I *urgently* have to get espresso done and anything else has to take a back seat until then12:20
KamionI'll go through my bug list later in the cycle12:20
dholbachMithrandir: what do you want to know exactly?12:20
WaterSevenUbKamion, ok, sorry.12:20
=== Kinnison bounces
seb128Kamion: did you read what I said this morning?12:20
seb128Kinnison: around?12:20
Kamionhence "file a bug and I'll get to it later" :-)12:21
Mithrandirdholbach: how hard would it be to rip out the UI and replace it with, say, a web interface.12:21
Kinnisong-p-m upstream are making my life even easier12:21
Kamionseb128: yes12:21
Kinnisonseb128: yes?12:21
Kamionseb128: I'll process stuff from NEW in a second12:21
Kinnisonogra: richard is taking even more from our patch upstream :-)12:21
Kamionseb128: you should add them to supported, yes12:21
seb128Kamion: should I ping you (ie: does it make your job easier) to list changes I do? and should I updated supported list?12:21
dholbachMithrandir: no idea, sorry12:21
seb128k, thank you12:21
Kamionseb128: no need to ping me, it makes my job harder12:21
Mithrandirdholbach: 'k, thanks anyway12:21
seb128Kinnison: so gnome-session upstream has changed code to match the spec12:21
seb128Kamion: noted12:21
dholbachMithrandir: i suppose it'd mean *quite* a bit of new code12:21
Kinnisonseb128: how do you mean?12:22
Kamionseb128: (unless it's really urgent)12:22
DizietScary.  I just booted a kernel without a correct corresponding modules.dep and the of messages from modprobe are ... copious.12:22
DizietNo wonder booting is so slow nowadays.12:22
seb128Kinnison: autostart is either /etc/xdg/autostart or /usr/share/gnome/autostart now12:23
Kinnisonright12:23
seb128Kinnison: spec says it's etc and some distro use that, so they list both12:23
Kinnisonso g-p-m should use /usr/share/gnome/autostart since it's gnomeish?12:23
seb128and they changed /usr/share/autostart to /usr/share/gnome/autostart to not conflict with KDE12:23
seb128Kinnison: I'm wondering it should not use /etc, it would allow a sysadmin to delete the .desktop if he wants to12:24
Kinnisonseb128: Okay, I'll let it go back to /etc12:24
seb128Kinnison: I was mentionning it for discussion 12:24
seb128so your opinion on /etc or /usr is welcome :)12:24
Kinnisonseb128: I think /etc sounds good for the sysadmin PoV providing we can tell the .desktop only to load on gnome12:25
Kinnisonis that possible?12:25
pittiMithrandir: gksudo doesn't do anything on the current live cd; known, or want a bug report?12:25
ograKinnison, wow, cool, even he ranted a lot in the other bug ...12:25
Kinnisonogra: yeah, we've sorted that out off-launchpad12:25
Kinnisonogra: He was just a bit miffed that I hadn't punted a bunch of this upstream but after I explained about the FF crunch he agreed to just try and take them himself12:26
seb128Kinnison: OnlyShowIn=GNOME;12:26
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Kinnisonseb128: thanks12:26
seb128np12:26
SeveasKeybuk, you evil fiendish overlord12:26
Seveasnow i have Grease song in my head....12:26
ograKinnison, yup :)12:26
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simiraSeveas: what's wrong with Grease?12:28
Treenakssimira: I think it's the quoting Grease in changelogs thing :)12:28
Seveassimira, it's 12:28 and I woke up 30 minutes ago, grease is too much right now12:28
Seveasand yet, Keybuks changelogs.....12:28
Mithrandirpitti: "doesn't do anything" is not a very useful bug report..12:29
Mithrandirpitti: I'll look at it12:30
Keybuk You're the one that I want12:30
Keybuk Ooh-Ooh-Ooh12:30
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simiraHopelessly devoted....?12:31
pittiMithrandir: i. e. 'gksudo command' just returns to the shell without printing or asking anything (nor executing that command)12:31
Mithrandirpitti: does sudo work?12:31
seb128where sudo works fine12:32
pittiMithrandir: yes12:32
Mithrandirpitti: sounds like a gksudo bug, then.12:32
netstarworking here...12:35
pittinetstar: on the latest live CD?12:35
Mithrandirpitti: let me check now that vmware finally decided it like the current cd.12:36
seb128pitti: I had the issue friday already12:36
netstarpitti, on last night's snapshot12:36
Mithrandirpitti: WFM12:36
pittihmm12:37
pittiamd64?12:37
Mithrandirvmware, so i38612:37
netstarppc G512:37
Mithrandirthe closest amd64 is decapitated ATM due to Scott wanting a piece of desk. :-P12:37
pittiok, I'll debug it the next time I load the live CD12:38
Mithrandirthanks12:38
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dholbachKamion: if you find the time at some stage, you might want to demote gossip to universe (i removed it from the seeds already)12:40
Kamiondholbach: done12:41
dholbachKamion: You ROCK! :-)12:41
Kamionpitti: I've had a similar issue, yes12:41
Kamionin my case it printed a few bytes of garbage12:41
sladenwin 912:44
=== pitti files an espresso crasher bug
=== Kamion looks unsurprised
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Toma-is there a part of launchpad where you can request features? obviously not for dapper tho12:47
TreenaksToma-: file wishlist bugs?12:48
dholbachToma-: the best way to do this is write a specification12:48
Toma-thats it12:48
=== pitti hugs Kamion for having to fight all these bugs in no time
dholbachToma-: the clearer the specification is, the more likely it is to get it implemented and people rallied around it12:48
Toma-dholbach, ok. ill write a big blog on it :D thanks12:49
dholbachthe wiki is the better place for this12:49
dholbachso people can change it12:49
sivangToma-: Make sure you're idea hasn't already been implemented or already being worked on12:49
Toma-oh, its not.12:50
dholbachthis is what I'd answer on a bug report, if it's just a "hey guys, do this: ...":     'Thanks for your report. Your idea might get more attention and have the possibility of being implemented if you would submit a specification for this. You should first check whether it already exists at the Ubuntu specs page (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs) in Launchpad. If that is the case, feel free to contact the drafter of that spec abou12:50
dholbacht your comments/suggestions. Otherwise you can start writing a spec following the steps described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureSpecifications.'12:50
Toma-that FeatureSpecifications page doesnt exist yet...12:52
dholbacherrrrm12:53
dholbachit does12:53
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureSpecifications12:53
dholbachyou just have to remove the ".'" from the url12:53
Toma-oh yeh :D silly me12:54
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jono_hey all12:56
tsenghi jono_ 12:56
jono_hey tseng12:56
jono_do we have any idea yet if the live cd will be the only CD shipped?12:57
Toma-gosh, launchpad sux for creating an account :|12:57
Kamionjono_: no.12:57
sivangToma-: what seems to be the problem?12:58
KamionI doubt we'll decide that for sure until quite a bit further down the line.12:58
jono_Kamion, no worries12:58
pittiKinnison: Hey Mr. g-p-m guru, do you have a mintue for me?12:58
Kamionseb128: -dbg stuff all done I think12:58
Toma-"passwords dont match" and theres only 1 password box on this launchpad wiki page12:58
seb128Kamion: thank you, I'll updated the supported list12:58
jono_Kamion, just expect me to pop in here every so often and ask the same question - feel free to beat me with a stick if at all neccessary12:58
jono_:)12:58
seb128update12:58
Toma-forget about it...12:59
sivangToma-: join #launchpad, there are people there that can help you.12:59
Toma-ok12:59
Kamionseb128: (in general, you can/should do that before NEW processing happens)12:59
seb128(noted)12:59
Kinnisonpitti: umm, can do01:00
Kinnisonpitti: what's up?01:00
pittiKinnison: on powerpc, we have a daemon 'pbbuttonsd' which does PM, apple function key handling, etc.01:01
pittiKinnison: which has the effect that both pbbuttonsd and g-p-m want to do PM01:01
pittiKinnison: this e. g. leads to the effect that after resuming from sleep, the computer immediately sleeps again01:02
pittiKinnison: I hoped to be able to drop pbbuttonsd from desktop entirely (i. e. I made pmi independent of pbbuttonsd)01:02
Kinnisonso what's left that pbbuttonsd does that we can't do otherwise?01:02
pittiKinnison: however, pbbuttonsd does other important things, like controlling the mousepad and function keys, etc.01:02
KinnisonRight01:03
torkelpitti: happens on my thinkpad T40p too, I have to press the Fn button an extra time to resume01:03
Kinnisoncan we just disable the bits of pbbuttonsd we don't want?01:03
pittiKinnison: in addition, pbbuttonsd even works if no user is logged in01:03
Kinnisonpitti: yeah, we still lack a policy for noone-logged-in stuff01:03
pittiKinnison: we already disabled brigthness and volume control, i. e. crippled it already01:03
pitticrippling it further would make it almost useless for people who don't run gnome01:04
Kinnisonpitti: can it look for gnome-power-manager and if running, defer to that?01:04
pittiKinnison: it doesn't work well in that direction, pbbuttonsd is a system daemon01:04
pittistarted earlier than g-p-m, and so on01:04
pittibut I'm not sure whether g-p-m should disable PM if it sees pbbuttonsd running01:04
pittiit's just pretty messy right now01:05
Kinnisonpitti: I'm still stuck in patch-hell getting integrated with what upstream have done01:06
Kinnisonpitti: once I actually have my new g-p-m uploaded we can chat more about this kind of policy, perhaps with mjg59 in on the discussion?01:07
pittiKinnison: yes, would be nice01:07
=== Kinnison goes back to patch-hell /away urgh
pittiI'll think about it in the meantime01:07
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jono_any here able to post to the fridge?01:09
dholbachjono_: fridge-devel@lists.ubuntu.com01:09
freeflyingpitti: hi01:09
pittihi freeflying 01:10
jono_dholbach, ok, will send it there :)01:10
dholbachjono_: ROCK! :)01:10
freeflyingpitti: which language package depend on im-switch now ?01:10
pittifreeflying: I didn't yet change anything about this01:11
pittifreeflying: for which languages is it necessary?01:11
pittifreeflying: for all that provide a scim module?01:11
Toma-dholbach, heres my idea :) https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+bug/31775 ill make a wiki for it as soon as i figure out wiki.ubuntu :/01:12
Ubugtumalone bug 31775 in Ubuntu "Ubuntu should have better links to support options" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  01:12
Toma-errr woops01:12
freeflyingpitti: each cjk language packge shall provide a scim module01:13
Toma-https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/tomhaste01:13
jono_dholbach, sent. :)01:13
Toma-bbl.01:14
dholbachToma-: cool01:14
pitti_laptopfreeflying: ok, I'll add it to all support pacakges with a scim module then, alright?01:14
Toma-sound like a feasible idea?01:14
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freeflyingpitti_laptop: ya, language package depend on im-switch 01:20
freeflyingpitti_laptop: I'll add a postinst to each scim module package to add the IM varianle 01:20
pitti_laptopfreeflying: hm, shouldn't that belong to im-switch rather?01:21
freeflyingthen other language user will not have scim start01:21
pitti_laptopfreeflying: i. e. isn't im-switch the part that looks at your locale and figures out which module you want?01:21
KamionToma-'s spec is automated-problem-reports in disguise; sadly I don't have permissions to mark it as such01:21
freeflyingpitti_laptop: let the scim module register to im-switch , and if user wanna use another input method , it will be easier 01:26
pitti_laptopKinnison: g-p-m doesn't offer me suspend although pmi capabilities has suspend01:27
pitti_laptopKinnison: instead it offers me hibernate, which pmi doesn't claim to support01:27
pitti_laptopKinnison: want a bug report? or already known?01:28
Kinnisontry enabling suspend in g-p-p01:28
pitti_laptopI did01:28
pitti_laptopthat also seemed to have worked01:29
pitti_laptopbut it's still confusing, given that suspend is the only thing that works on ppc (hibernate doesn't)01:29
Kinnisonhmm01:29
KinnisonI'm half tempted to disable everything by default01:30
pitti_laptopKinnison: oh, g-p-m cannot even ask pmi capabilities, right? It would need root for that01:30
pitti_laptopso the false enabling of hibernate is a hal bug and thus for me01:31
pitti_laptopbut01:31
pitti_laptop  power_management.can_suspend_to_ram = true  (bool)01:31
freeflyingpitti_laptop: how about that ? 01:32
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pitti_laptopfreeflying: about what?01:32
freeflyingpitti_laptop: let the scim module register to im-switch , and if user wanna use another input method , it will be easier 01:32
Kinnisonpitti_laptop: when you enable it in g-p-p it should show up in g-p-m01:32
freeflyingpitti_laptop: if user choose other input method , they just need register to im-switch 01:32
pitti_laptopKinnison: right, that works01:33
pitti_laptopKinnison: so, this is specifically intended to work like that?01:33
Kinnisonpitti_laptop: yes01:33
Kinnisonpitti_laptop: so hal needs to not claim hibernate support if you want g-p-m not to offer it01:33
pitti_laptopKinnison: ah, I see; sorry then01:33
pitti_laptopyep, will fix that01:33
Kinnisoncool01:34
mjg59Uh.01:34
mjg59No.01:34
Kinnisonmjg59: ?01:34
mjg59Hal is supposed to claim hibernate if there's kernel support for it, regardless of whether or not it'll work01:34
Kinnisonpitti_laptop: always listen to mjg59 for policy, he's da man01:34
pitti_laptopok01:34
pitti_laptopwell, the user will figure out fast enough if hibernate doesn't work, and can change it to suspend01:35
mjg59pitti_laptop: When you say "hibernate doesn't work on ppc", you mean "hibernate doesn't work on my ppc", right?01:35
pitti_laptopmjg59: I heard about other ppcs where it doesn't, but I'd be fine with leaving it enabled by default01:36
pitti_laptopso, I can't claim that there aren't any ppcs out there where it works01:36
mjg59pitti_laptop: Can we attempt to fix the actual bug rather than just disabling hibernate?01:36
pitti_laptopmjg59: preferably :)01:37
pitti_laptopit works as soon as I unload half a dozen modules and stop X01:37
pitti_laptop(moudles for oops, X for display blackness)01:37
pitti_laptopunfortunately I could not pinpoint a particular module01:38
=== pitti_laptop needs to test new pbbuttonsd resume here, talk to pitti
sladen*blink*  python-psyco is not in the default seed of python stuff...01:40
sladenand *jeez* does that make a difference to execution time01:42
kokemvo: I have a little patch for g-a-i01:51
kokehttp://people.warp.es/~koke/bzr/gai--koke/01:51
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mvokoke: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/959401:55
mvokoke: thanks01:55
sivangmvo: what about that UI sprint you metnioned yesterday, when / where is it going to take place?01:59
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sladensivang: London, next week02:04
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mvokoke: any idea about the error?02:10
mvosivang: what sladen said02:10
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mdeboerhi.02:12
mdeboeri am trying to build a custom dapper kernel (with ingo molnars rt-preempt patch), using make-kpkg. but at the end, it bails out complaining that "kernel-headers-[....]   is not in control info". any idea?02:14
mdeboeri've done this before, but did not get this error...02:14
Chipzzmdeboer: you should be able to work around that at least by just doing make-kpkg kernel_image modules_image02:16
Chipzz(I think :P)02:16
mdeboerChipzz: that's what i do02:17
sivangmvo: ah nice. Shame I'm on in EU as well... :-/02:17
sivangs/on/not/02:17
Chipzzhrrrm, worked last time I checked I think02:17
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mdeboeryes, that's what i thought...02:17
Chipzzmdeboer: but I don't think you should be getting an error about kernel-headers when that package is not on the list you specify to make-kpkg, as is the case with "make-kpkg kernel_image modules_image"02:18
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Kinnisonpitti: ping?02:37
pittiHi Kinnison 02:37
Kinnisonbloody translations02:38
Kinnisondpkg-source is ranting about unrepresentable changes02:38
Kinnisonbecause something has altered a gmo file02:38
Kinnisonany idea how to fix?02:38
seb128don't alter the .gmo? :)02:39
seb128changing the .po is usually enough02:39
seb128the .gmo are updated during the build02:39
Kinnisonseb128: right, so the fact that I did a build in this tree has fucked it?02:39
mvoKinnison: probably, yes02:39
seb128might be02:39
Kinnisonarsepint02:40
mvoyou could just remove them 02:40
seb128if a .po has changed since the .gmo have been generated or if the source code has changed02:40
Kinnisonmvo: good point02:40
Keybukpitti: do you have a handy bit of shell to do your kick nm into refreshing devices thing?02:40
pittiKinnison: just rm po/*.gmo in debian/rules clean02:41
pittiKeybuk: no, I don't02:41
Keybukbah02:41
pittiKeybuk: 'refresh'?02:41
Keybukthe thing you wrote for linux-wlan-ng, to say "this device has changed, look at it again"02:41
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pittiKeybuk: aaah, I see; yes, that's a dbus-send invocation, lemme look02:41
zakameevening devs02:43
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pittiKeybuk: dbus-send --system /org/gnome/NetworkManager org.gnome.NetworkManager.RefreshDevice string:wlan002:43
pittiKeybuk: (or whatever device you want to refresh)02:43
Keybukhow did you get the org.gnome.NetworkManager thing?02:44
pittiKeybuk: that's the name I defined in the n-m patch02:44
pittior, rather, this was already defined02:44
pittiI just defined the new function RefreshDevice(string)02:44
Keybukoh right02:44
Keybukam trying to work out how to do a "getDevices" call and get the results02:45
pittiKeybuk: hm, it seems it's just my patch that defines this namespace02:46
pittiKeybuk: i. e. I added a dbus signal handler that watches out for org.gnome.NetworkManager signals02:46
Keybukok, but in nm-dbus-nm.c there's oodles of events defined02:47
Keybukmethods02:47
tepsipakkihow does the server-install know to get the correct kernel (linux-image-server) ? or does it?02:49
Treenaksmjg59: any news on the wacom-tools4?02:50
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theine Hi, will the newest stable version of the ipw2100 driver (1.2.0) make it into Dapper's kernel?02:51
mjg59Treenaks: Other than that it's a complete arse to build, no02:51
mjg59theine: What bugs does it fix?02:52
pittiKeybuk: so, shall I use a different namespace?02:52
theinemjg59, 1) Fix debug option cannot enable problem, 2) Add support for WEXT-18 enc_capa v302:53
Keybukpitti: ah, ok, I see confusion.  you used org.gnome.NetworkManager they use org.freedesktop.NetworkManager ;)02:53
Treenakstheine: I think the 2200 version of this patch has already been applied, as I got a 'fix commited' message for that (WEXT-18)02:53
pittiKeybuk: oops, my fault; sorry for that02:53
pittiKeybuk: someone blew an embargo, so I need to switch to security fix mode now and postpone n-m debugging02:54
mjg59theine: Please file a wishlist bug against the kernel02:54
theinealso, 1.2.0 is marked stable by the ipw2100 devs (as opposed to 1.1.4 which is in Dapper's kernel right now)02:54
pittiKeybuk: but if you want, I can change the name along with the l-wlan-ng fixes02:54
theinemjg59, alright, i'll do that02:54
freeflyingpitti: I'm waiting for your decision  :)02:55
Keybukwhenever's convenient I guess02:55
Keybukhmm,  (dbus-monitor too dumb to decipher arg type 'o')02:55
KeybukI hate dbus02:55
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pittifreeflying: oh, I wasn't aware of you waiting02:56
freeflyingpitti: hehe02:56
pittifreeflying: I'm not sure whether the input modules should add variables to the X session02:56
pittifreeflying: rather, im-switch should look at the locale and select a scim module, or not?02:57
freeflyingpitti: now we let im-switch do that for us 02:57
pittifreeflying: ritght, that's what I though02:57
pittit02:57
freeflyingpitti: and let scim's module register to im-switch02:57
freeflyingpitti: so I'd add them in postinst to scim module's package02:58
pittisounds good02:58
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freeflyingneed we comunicate that with scim module package's maintainer 02:59
pittifreeflying: not in Ubuntu at least, but if it makes sense, it would be nice to cooperate with Debian03:03
pittifreeflying: so that Debian benefits from it as well, and we don't need to carry the patch forever03:03
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freeflyingpitti: ya, and upload to REVU?03:04
pittifreeflying: I'm not experienced with Revu, but that should be fine03:06
freeflyingpitti: ok03:06
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zakamehi mgalvin giftnudel sabdfl03:11
mgalvinhi zakame03:12
Pygimatt, have you read the lists? some people want revival of the -instant project...03:12
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sabdflhey zakame03:13
mgalvinPygi: i follow it a bit but have been to busy to read them all... which thread(s) are you referring to?03:14
Pygimgalvin: huh, I would have to find it....sec please03:14
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Pygimatt: roadmap for ubuntu server03:15
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mgalvinPygi: link? if you have it?03:21
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ogradholbach, ping ... whats up with python-gnome on powerpc ? 03:27
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seb128ogra: you want to get the reply from dholbach only? :)03:29
ograseb128, nope 03:29
=== seb128 looks so
ograi dont care who replies as long as the info contained is right :)03:30
ograbut it seems the last upload made all ppc CDs explode 03:30
Kamionit's uninstallable, see http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/dapper_probs.html03:30
seb128hum?03:30
ograso something is wrong03:30
Kamionit's not gnome-python at fault though, e.g. gnome-session's uninstallable too03:30
seb128looks like the gnome-vfs2 issue03:31
ogradue to a dependency on gnome-python ?03:31
KamionI'm not sure picking a random package of the 100+ uninstallable and blaming it is entirely useful03:31
ograheh true 03:31
ograbut thats what my chroot gives me ...03:32
seb128<fabbione>      the libgnome-vfs2-common changed from arch: any03:32
seb128to arch: all03:32
seb128<fabbione>      if the chroots are not updated03:32
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seb128<fabbione>      some -dev are not installable03:32
seb128<fabbione>      that's why you see these DepWait03:32
seb128that might be that issue03:32
KamionI think infinity might *just* have gone to bed ...03:33
dokoKamion: please promote libxmlsec1 libxmlsec1-nss libxmlsec1-openssl linxmlsec-dev, reviewed by pitti, needed by OOo in NEW03:33
ogramy chroot says libgnomeui-common (= 2.13.3-0ubuntu1) doesnt exist ... if it build depends on -vfs that might be right03:33
seb128it does depends on it03:34
ograah, k03:34
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ogra(got no sources in my chroot sources.list to check)03:34
Kamiondoko: not libxmlsec1-gnutls?03:34
Kamionor the xmlsec1 binary itself?03:34
Kamiondoko: rest promoted03:35
=== Kinnison hurrahs as two days of work finally lands in dapper
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zakameHUH?03:37
dokoKamion: don't know yet, if OOo needs them ;-) but maybe we should promote all binaries03:38
sladenelmo: us.archive.com is out of step03:38
sladenelmo: Release vs. Release.gpg so the archive is useless for users03:39
=== Lathiat wonders why he has cdrom[0-10] in /media
ograsladen, longstanding problem 03:40
sladenelmo: wget http://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/ubuntu/dists/dapper/Release{,.gpg}03:40
PygiLathiat: known bug in dapper...worry do not :) 03:40
LathiatPygi: ok :)03:40
ograsladen, us.u.c is on and off since ages ...03:40
sladenogra: why on earth is it still in the rotation03:40
PygiLathiat: if you can find out which package in installer causes that, I'll be glad to fix it :)03:40
Kamiondoko: ok, I've promoted the rest for now, although be aware that they'll drop back to universe if the new openoffice.org doesn't make dapper03:40
ograsladen, dunno why its in *again* it was dropped several times afaik03:40
KamionPygi: partman-target is a good place to start03:40
PygiKamion: thanks, I'll look into the matter...03:41
ograKinnison, wow, thats a impressive changelog 03:44
Kinnisonogra: it has taken me two days to do03:44
ogralooks rather like the work from a week or two :)03:45
ogra(in fact it looks like youv'e nearly rewritten g-p-m :) )03:45
Kinnisonhell no, richard did a hell of a lot03:46
Lathiathaha03:46
KinnisonI was just integrating and fiddling03:46
ograheh :)03:46
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elmoSEGFWG#$HG"03:53
elmognome-screensaver is locking the screen WHILE I'M TYPING03:53
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Treenakselmo: kick the ogra !03:53
kokemvo: the error 500 seems to be realted to mod_security on that server, trying to fix it...03:53
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DizietAAARGH DBS HATE HATE HATE03:55
ograelmo, since when do you use gnome-screensaver ? i added several patches to adjust the defaults months ago03:55
ograif you used it before there might be wrong defaults in your gconf setup ...03:56
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sivangmvo: do you have any idea how to overcome this:03:57
sivangmvo: Traceback (most recent call last):03:57
sivang  File "./upbackup.py", line 294, in on_button7_clicked03:57
sivang    gobject.idle_add(self.pushGUIBackup().next())03:57
sivangTypeError: first argument not callable03:57
sivangit works for the first iteration I think03:57
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elmoogra: I just upgraded to dapper yesterday - don't think this particular machine ever had gnome-screensaver installed before03:58
elmoit wasn't doing this last night too, it's only after a hibernate, AFAICT03:58
DizietJust discovered the most amazing bug in tcpd.  If you ssh into a machine and your ident lookup is dropped by a firewall (rather than being rejected) and times out, you end up with a session with SIGALRM blocked.03:58
ograelmo, thanks, i'll investigate where my change disappeared 03:58
ograoh03:58
Kinnisonmight be a gnome-screensaver bug03:58
Kinnisonmight be a gnome-power-manager bug03:58
ograthat sounds rather like something for Kinnison 03:58
Kinnisonelmo: try killing and restarting gnome-power-manager03:59
seb128my bet is that something has been upgraded and running server and client are not in sync03:59
elmoseb128: I haven't upgraded since last reboot03:59
elmoI'll try what kinnison said03:59
Kinnisonelmo: if it continues to happen (without a new suspend) then it's a g-ss bug, otherwise it's a g-p-m bug and you should upgrade once 2.13.92-0ubuntu1 has compiled#03:59
seb128so wrong bet, is a bog somewhere03:59
Mithrandirogra: gnome-screensaver occasionally seems to stop detecting activity.  Do you have any idea what it might be?04:00
ograMithrandir, havent seen that yet 04:00
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jonohia ll04:01
jonohi all04:01
ograMithrandir, there was a bug with the dpms settings being set to 2minutes or something for all gconf keys (the bug i mentioned to elmo) can you check with gconf-editor thats not the case for you ? 04:02
Mithrandirjono, now with echo. :-)04:02
jonoanother quick q - do we know if the dapper CDs will still include The Open CD?04:02
jonoMithrandir, heh04:02
Mithrandirogra: it goes away if I kill and restart gnome-screensaver.04:02
Mithrandirogra: and it seems related to suspend and resume.04:02
ograhmm...04:02
elmoGRR04:02
Mithrandirogra: xset says dpms is enabled, but the timeouts are 0.04:03
ograKinnison, how do you call g-s-s ? via g-s-s-command ? 04:03
elmoit's still happening after cycling g-p-m04:03
elmowhich I guess makes it a g-s-s bug04:03
jonosabdfl, do you plan on having the open cd on the dapper release cds?04:03
Kinnisonogra: no, I use the dbus methods04:03
ograMithrandir, i'm only intrested in gconf :)04:03
sabdfljono: space will be very tight04:03
Mithrandirogra: why on _earth_ are dpms setting duplicated in gconf?04:03
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ograMithrandir, to be accessible from g-p-m 04:04
jonosabdfl, thats what I figured, is it a case of suck it and see closer to the time?04:04
dokopitti: language pack ping04:04
sabdfljono: yes, i'm afraid04:04
pittidoko: pong04:04
jonosabdfl, no worries! :)04:04
pittidoko: what's up?04:04
jonocheers04:04
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MithrandirKinnison: also, any idea where my g-p-m icon has gone? :-P04:05
=== sivang fights with gobject.idle_add
ograMithrandir, new default :) check the preferences04:05
ploumhmmm... abiword files are previewed as txt files. Bug in some MIME type. Against wich package must I report the bug ?04:05
Mithrandirogra: "always display icon" is set in my prefs.04:05
dokopitti: ronne:~doko/ooo/2.0.2/l10ntst: these are the new OOo related packages, which will enter the archive soon, please could you prepare an lang update?04:05
Mithrandirit returned when I twiddled that setting.04:06
ograMithrandir, oh04:06
MithrandirKinnison: ^^04:06
ograMithrandir, then i think g-p-m crashed for you 04:06
Mithrandir14476 ?        Ss     0:09 /usr/bin/gnome-power-manager04:06
ograit gets started by the prefs window04:06
Mithrandirsame pid as before I opened the prefs.04:06
Mithrandiralso, there's no way to suspend from the menu any more.04:06
ograhmm, intresting04:06
ograheh, for me hibernate is gone ... didnt recognize that until now04:07
Mithrandirwell, there's no hibernate option either.04:07
torkelMithrandir: a reboot fixed the same thing for me so I suspected dbus or hal...04:08
ogramissing a reboot ?04:08
ograyes, hall should handle suspend/hibernate capabilitys now04:08
Mithrandirogra: no, not missing a reboot.  Nothing telling me a reboot of any kind is required and there shouldn't be any needed given that I haven't upgraded my kernel.04:08
pittidoko: permission denied, the dir is 70004:08
pittidoko: what do you mean with a 'lang update'?04:09
ograMithrandir, upgrading dbus, hal, g-p-m, udev etc all require reboots nowadays04:09
Mithrandirtorkel: that is so not the right way to fix the problem.04:09
Mithrandirogra: uh?  say again?04:10
=== ogra ususally has to reboot once a day since we have that little notifier that annoys me all the time ...
DizietApplying patch debian/patches/./siglongjmp~ failed!04:10
ograMithrandir, all apps using dbus ... 04:10
DizietHATE HATE HATE04:10
torkelMithrandir: I know, and I agree04:11
ograMithrandir, plus udev 04:11
ograMithrandir, dont you get the little violet reboot sign Keybuk wrote if you upgrade any dbus related app ?04:11
Mithrandirogra: no idea.04:12
Mithrandirhaven't seen it on the laptop.04:12
Mithrandirand that's so broken it's not funny.04:12
dokopitti: fixed, dependencies of the language packs04:12
ograMithrandir, normally you get a notification, look if your notification daemon is running at all ...04:13
Mithrandir 5172 ?        S      0:19 /usr/lib/notification-daemon/notification-daemon04:13
ograstrange 04:13
Mithrandirand I have a notification-area-applet04:13
pittidoko: I still don't understand, sorry; you mean that OO.o's locale packages have some dependencies now?04:13
ogradunno then, ask Keybuk 04:13
pittidoko: or that I should update the language-support packages to depend on new OO.o language debs now?04:14
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dokopitti: sure, the latter04:14
pittidoko: ah; yep, will do it as soon as they are in the archive (to maintain installability)04:14
Keybukogra: you meant update-notifier04:16
Keybukand he didn't have that running04:16
ograah04:17
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ograi didnt know which piece exactly ...04:17
Keybukwhy doesn't dbus just get restarted after it's upgraded?04:17
=== enrico_ is now known as enrico
ograKeybuk, upstream decided it will need a reboot there was even a spec at ubz ...04:17
Mithrandirogra: that's _broken_04:18
Keybukbut this means if you don't upgrade, gnome-screensaver will end up locking your screen, and then be unable to start its own unlock dialog04:18
Keybukno?04:18
ograbut that was on daniels list and got dropped afaik04:18
Mithrandirogra: it would be ok if we were shipping windows.  But we aren't.  So it's not.04:18
ograMithrandir, that is how it currently is 04:18
ograi dont say i like it04:18
ograKeybuk, no, but thats because the apps all use gnome-screensaver-command yet ... apart from g-p-m which uses dbus ... 04:19
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ograKeybuk, so you have a prob if you upgrade g-p-m but dont reboot ... or vice versa for g-s-s04:20
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Mithrandirogra: except when they don't.  I've had that happen on occasion when upgrading, then suspending, then resuming.04:20
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ograMithrandir, normally the popup window tells you to reboot as soon as you can 04:20
ogra(from the packages postinst)04:21
Mithrandirexcept there's no popup.04:21
ograyes, but then your session is broken ...04:21
Mithrandirno, it's not.04:21
Mithrandirif gss requires update-notifier to be running, it should make sure it is.04:22
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ographew, but that applies to all the apps using dbus then04:22
Mithrandirexcept that not having g-p-m doesn't break your system.04:23
Mithrandirnot being able to unlock your screen does.04:23
ograbut that must not be caused by a g-s-s upgrade ...04:25
ograit can as well be only a dbus upgrade 04:25
Mithrandirdoesn't matter.  Is still a g-s-s bug.04:25
ogranope, its a conceptional bug 04:25
Mithrandirif gnome-screensaver locks my screen and then fails to unlock it, that's a gss bug.04:25
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ograif you dont regard the warning the app sends (reboot notification) you cant blame the app 04:26
MithrandirI didn't get any notification. :-)04:26
mjg59ogra: No, anything that leaves a system in an unusable state after upgrade is unacceptable04:26
ograyes, thats a conceptional bug04:26
ogramjg59, what i mean is that we have a bug in the process if we cant guarantee that the notifier is running for *any* dbus driven app04:27
mjg59ogra: If an upgrade renders an application unusable without rebooting, then we have a far bigger problem04:27
Mithrandirogra: notifications are not an excuse for actually fixing the problem.04:28
ogramjg59, then we have it ... it renders several apps unusable that rely on dbus 04:28
Mithrandir"you need to reboot because I don't know how to reexec myself" is really, really silly.04:28
Keybukogra: you can't just say "reboot required" and then leave the user in a bad state04:28
mjg59ogra: Yes. So we need to figure out how to fix this, not figure out how to tell people to reboot.04:28
Kamionogra: ("conceptual")04:28
ograKamion, thanks :)04:28
ogramjg59, exactly ... but that requires the whole process to be touched, not only one app ...04:29
mjg59ogra: Yes04:29
Mithrandirogra: except that there's one app which intentionally blocks access to the screen.  The others that break don't.  They don't break the system.04:30
mjg59But the bug is not "update-notifier is not running"04:30
Mithrandirogra: so while it might be a bug in g-p-m too, it's a far, far more severe bug in gss04:30
ograhttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/dbus-restarts04:31
kokemvo: try to merge gai again04:33
kokeit should be fixed04:33
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Mithrandirogra: yes, there's a spec which has never gotten off the ground.04:34
mjg59The screensaver is something that must never be broken04:34
mjg59People depend on it for security04:34
sivangomg , my 2 layered generator methods with a spawned process underneath (dar) works as a charm in reporting progress up to the gui...end of first ver of HUB is appraoching , yay04:34
Keybukaye, gss can't just quit and wait for a reboot because it means people's computers are UNLOCKED04:34
Keybukand it can't just wait for a reboot and happily lock the screen with no chance of unlock either04:35
mjg59If it's going to fail, it's better for it to fail locked (but that's not acceptable either)04:35
mvokoke: thanks, merged04:35
kokegreat04:35
Keybukrandom thought ... how does update-notifier get that notification popup to come up?04:36
Mithrandirit uses notification-daemon, I presume.04:36
ograKeybuk, didnt you write it ? 04:36
Keybukright, which uses what IPC protocol? :p04:36
Mithrandiriz gnome, so dbus? :-P04:36
ograheh, yes :)04:36
Keybukso ...04:36
Keybukif you've just killed dbus by upgrading it04:36
ograthe concept is broken :)04:36
Keybukhow do you expect update-notifier to popup the "you need to restart now" popup?04:37
ogralets not restart dbus at all04:37
Keybukthis explains why I've never seen that popup work recently04:37
ograi see it once a day here 04:37
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=== Kamion is so glad he decided against making espresso use d-bus internally
KeybukMalone needs an OH MY FUCKING GOD! severity ;)04:38
Mithrandirone thing is having to reboot when dbus itself is upgraded, but why would you have to reboot when you upgrade an app?04:38
Mithrandirthat looks so much like an app problem and doesn't have anything to do with dbus itself.04:38
Keybukwhy does dbus get restarted?04:39
ograthe prob is to start the frontend part again ... it only runs in the users session with user permissions, dpkg doesnt know about which user is using a frontend04:40
ograit can only restart the system backend04:40
KeybukI assume it's something to do with newly upgraded apps using a newer dbus protocol than the running daemon?04:40
Keybukif it restarts the system backend, wouldn'04:40
ograKeybuk, yup04:40
Keybukt all frontends need to be restarted?04:40
ograyup04:40
ograand thats the prob Mithrandir has with g-s-s 04:41
Keybukso couldn't we do that?  restart the system daemon, and all the session daemons04:41
Keybukand then the apps can just reconnect04:41
Keybukafter all, they don't drop support for older dbus protocols04:41
ograbut that reqiores knowledge of every session04:41
Keybukthat's easy04:41
Keybukps aux | grep dbus ;)04:41
ogranope04:41
Keybukare you saying the system bus doesn't know the list of sessions connected to it?04:42
ograyou also need: ps aux |grep g-p-m04:42
ograg-s-s 04:42
ograhal04:42
Keybukwhy?  those things will notice their session bus going away04:42
Keybukand can reconnect04:42
ograwill they ? 04:42
Keybuk"oh, my socket closed"04:42
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ograi know g-p-m has such a function in CVS, dunno if Kinnison added it yet04:42
Keybukhell, if you shut down the system bus, surely the session daemons will get their sockets closed04:42
torkelso there need to be a restart dbus event that all daemons (and apps) should listen to and restart upon04:42
Keybukso they could reexec themselves04:42
ogratorkel, thats normally covered by /etc/dbus-1/event.d/04:43
ograbut still 04:43
ograyou need to execute the frontends 04:43
ograwith user permissions ...04:43
Mithrandirno, you don't.04:44
Mithrandirkill -USR1 $pid04:44
Mithrandirand have them trap that04:44
ograunless they can do  it themselves04:44
Mithrandirtrivial04:44
torkelyeah, but if the apps are listen to the "restart" event they should be able to restart, shouldn't they?04:45
ograyes04:45
ograbut no app does a kill -USR1 $pid yet, we'll need to add that 04:45
ograi'll do some testing with g-s-s 04:46
ograMithrandir, can you file a bug with an exact description so i can reproduce it for tests ?04:46
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ograi'm pretty sure g-s-s will unlick if i send kill -USR...04:47
ogra*unlock04:47
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
torkelogra: it does04:48
ograyup, suspected that 04:48
torkeland it dies :-(04:48
sivangmvo: ping, around?04:50
ogradholbach, has ekiga screensaver handling code ? (i.e. did it (or gnomeeting) prevent locking with xscreensaver) ?04:50
dholbachogra: it has dbus code which doesn't built04:52
dholbachogra: build04:52
dholbachogra: I'll try with the next release again04:52
dholbachogra: (maybe in two weeks)04:52
ogradholbach, do you know if it had xss code as well ? 04:52
dholbachogra: no idea, sorry.04:52
ograok04:52
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ograjust trying to determine all apps that handled xss to get all gss regressions done ...04:53
dholbachNice. :)04:53
ogra(since Mithrandir wants such weird things like no screen locking if a call is in progress ;) )04:54
sabdflelmo: are you still seeing the "Killed by signal 1." problem with rsync / ssh / sftp? i just started getting that05:01
Kamionsabdfl: I fixed that in Debian's openssh a week or two ago; will port the change to dapper05:02
sabdflKamion: thanks muchly05:02
KamionI'd meant to do that but forgot05:03
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sabdflstub: am playing with pg8.105:11
jsgotangcohey sabdfl nice to see you back online again05:11
sabdfljsgotangco: *great* to be home05:12
sabdflglad we met up, thanks for your help btw05:12
jsgotangcoaye must be tough05:12
jsgotangcocheers05:12
desrtsabdfl; 'sup05:12
sabdfldesrt: specs, dude, specs05:12
desrtsabdfl; about the logout dialog....05:12
sabdflam working on the spec system05:12
desrtah.  more than just a wiki?05:12
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desrtsabdfl; the new logout dialog is quite bad and a lot of people do not like it05:14
HiddenWolfspecifically, it offers less functionality, uses colors and layout unique to the dialogue, and feels bulkier than the gnome default dialogue. 05:15
HiddenWolfdesrt: that about it?05:15
pitti... and doesn't allow you to save your session05:15
desrtHiddenWolf; it also violates the HIG in ways that are bound to suprise and confuse the user05:15
=== ogra likes the split approach the two menu dialogs have now
pittiogra: not any more05:16
HiddenWolfogra: amen05:16
ograpitti, ?05:16
seb128pitti: upstream doesn't allow that neither05:16
desrtseb128; freenode is preventing me from replying to your /msg05:16
seb128upstream one05:16
pittiogra: you mean the separate 'log out'/'shut down'?05:16
ograpitti, oohh05:16
seb128desrt: reply on gimpnet :)05:16
desrtogra; ya.  the split approach is really nice05:16
pittiogra: that's gone05:16
ograpitti, i just discovered its gone :(05:16
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desrtseb128; good idea :)05:17
seb128HiddenWolf: less functionality is not true, and colors ... icon should be changed05:17
desrtpfah.  it's not about the icons.05:17
desrtthey're ugly as sin but that's a superficial problem05:17
seb128desrt: just replying on some non accurate points listed05:17
pittiseb128: no 'save session' check box any more is certainly less functionality than in breezy?05:17
giftnudeldesrt: you need to register to be able to send privmsgs05:17
desrtgiftnudel; i refuse to register05:18
desrtgiftnudel; i'm anti-freenode05:18
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seb128pitti: right, but the 2 dialogs from upstream we had from the system menu for some time have the same issue05:18
giftnudeldesrt: ;)05:18
=== jsgotangco finds it rather huge for a logout dialog but likes the look
pittiseb128: ah, you mean *those*. right05:18
seb128pitti: the chose is either "those" or the new one05:18
seb128nobody is willing to go back with the old one05:18
ograseb128, what about a merge of these two approaches ?05:18
pittiseb128: what's upstream's idea of session saving hten?05:18
seb128pitti: "those"05:18
seb128ah05:19
seb128that05:19
seb128that nobody uses it :)05:19
=== pitti does
desrtya.  sessions are evil :p05:19
ograhaving two menu items and two dialogs abut with the icon approach the 6-icon-dialog has05:19
ograso one with three icons (restart, shut down, suspend)05:19
ograand one with the user actions 05:19
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giftnudelI still find "logout"  a funny place to look for user switching ... since you don't actually logout05:20
ograso you have a 3 item and a 2 item dialog instead of a 6 item dialog ...05:20
ograit will look less cluttered 05:21
tepsipakki"switch user" to the menu, and a "save session" checkbox to the logout-confirmation dialog05:21
ograbut still, the six icon dialog looks not good yet ...05:22
ograit needs reduction 05:22
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giftnudelI don't think suspend should be in therer05:22
seb128ogra: 7 icons actually now05:22
ogra*shudder*05:22
giftnudelsince it's actually only temporarily05:23
ograi only have 6 and a cancel button 05:23
Pygiogra: same here05:23
ograseb128, so we add both suspend actions now ? 05:23
ogragnome-session should look up whats selected in g-p-m as suspend action 05:24
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mjg59?05:25
mjg59Ah, yes05:25
KinnisonUmm, everything else ought to send the dbus signal to g-p-m05:25
Kinnisonreally05:25
mjg59Yeah, we shouldn't be suspending via gdm now05:25
ograKinnison, its just about which icons are shown on logout05:25
Kinnisonaah05:25
ograand g-p-m already forces you to select one as default05:25
Kinnisonogra: how do you mean?05:26
ograso we should pick the one thats selected there and only display this one in the logout dialog05:26
pittiogra: hm? g-p-m allows both for me05:26
giftnudelI would only put suspend to disk in the logout dialog and let suspend to ram be handled by g-p-m05:26
ograi.e. if i select suspend in g-p-m, hibernate shouldnt show up05:26
mjg59ogra: No, that's no longer the case05:26
Kinnisonogra: I have a g-p-m build failure on ia64 which looks like broken deps, any clues?05:26
ograpitti, look at g-p-m "sleep type if inactive" selects the default action05:27
ograKinnison, looking05:27
pittiogra: well, but that doesn't mean that the user shouldn't get both offered; right-click gpm offers it too05:27
ogramjg59, according to seb128 there are 7 buttons now, i cant confirm since my lappie has no hibernate05:28
giftnudelogra: there are only 605:28
seb128http://www.manucornet.net/GNOME/logout_dialog/with-lock.png05:28
seb128705:28
desrti count 805:28
ograARGH05:28
giftnudelseb128: that one doesn't look good ;(05:28
desrtwell, really i count 1, by any reasonable logic05:28
ogradesrt, leave the cancel button ... thats obligatory :)05:28
desrtbut someone told me that those other weird entities floating in space are actually buttons too05:29
desrtso i guess 805:29
mjg59As I keep saying, sleep should not be there by default05:29
ograseb128, that looks horrible 05:29
seb128graaa05:29
giftnudelmjg59: yes, I can only second that05:29
giftnudelsleep is in g-p-m05:29
mjg59Because it /doesn't work/05:29
ogramjg59, i would say the preferred default action from g-p-m should be shown there05:29
mjg59(In many cases)05:29
seb128ogra: I don't take the decisions for that, I'm just implementing, you are complaining to the wrong person05:29
mjg59ogra: There is no preferred default action for g-p-m05:29
jsgotangcothat's a lot of buttons05:30
desrtit is05:30
ogramjg59, "sleep type if inactive" was formerly called "default suspend action" in g-p-m05:30
mjg59ogra: Yes. And now it isn't.05:31
ogramjg59, did it change functionallity as well ? 05:31
mjg59ogra: Before it was not clear what that option /was/05:32
desrtseb128; if you do allow the upstream logout dialogs to be gconf'd back into existence, you should probably also deal with the death clocks05:34
=== desrt goes to get ready
mjg59The upstream logout dialogs are still available05:34
seb128no05:34
mjg59As far as I can tell, at least. It's what I get if I select actions/logout05:34
mjg59Uh, system/logout05:34
ograi really liked the two dialog approach 05:34
ograeven the dialogs could have been more pretty05:35
=== mjg59 wonders why he still has these dialogs
ogramissed upgrade ? 05:36
mjg59Possibly05:36
ograrunning sparc or ia64 ?05:36
ogra:)05:36
ograor hppa05:36
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ograKinnison, that ia64 ftbfs might be the same prob powerpc has today ... seems gnome-vfs had probs on some arches, and libgnomeui has broken deps through this05:38
ograKinnison, just wait until thats fixed and trigger a new build...05:38
Kinnisonogra: right05:38
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Kamionsabdfl: fixed in openssh 1:4.2p1-7ubuntu105:45
sabdflKamion: thanks. anything else upstream we can easily pull into dapper?05:46
Kamionsabdfl: that's a full merge of current Debian unstable05:46
Kamionsabdfl: there's a new upstream release (4.3p2), but I haven't looked at all at it yet05:46
sabdflbonzaiii05:46
sabdflKamion: doubt there's anything dapper-essential in a new upstream05:47
Kamionmy feeling is that it will probably fix three things we care about and break five more in fun and interesting ways, based on previous experience05:47
Kamionalthough upstream are getting better about that05:47
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Kamionsabdfl: I tend to agree; http://www.mindrot.org/pipermail/openssh-unix-announce/2006-February/000084.html is the 4.3 announce05:49
Kamionhmm, I wonder though, they mention one thing ...05:49
Kamion * Set SO_REUSEADDR on X11 listeners to avoid problems caused by05:49
Kamion   lingering sockets from previous session (X11 applications can05:49
Kamion   sometimes not connect to 127.0.0.1:60xx) (Bugzilla #1076)05:49
Kamionogra: I wonder if that's the problem you were having05:49
Kamionhttp://bugzilla.mindrot.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107605:50
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wftlIs there any hope that some kind of simple persistence system (a la Knoppix) will be available for the live CD when Dapper becomes official?05:51
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wftlThe persistence document is fine, but it's hardly easy for a newbie.05:51
Kamionogra: yeah, looks the same as https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/25528; remind me to backport that05:51
Ubugtumalone bug 25528 in openssh openssh-server "X11 forwarding via ssh not releasing ports in timely manner with IPv4 and IPv6 enabled" [Normal,Needs info]  05:51
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Kamionwftl: talk to Mithrandir about what you need; he implemented current persistence in about a day, so it should be pretty easy to implement something different05:52
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Kamionor file a bug against casper about it05:52
Kamion(since Mithrandir's fairly busy this week)05:52
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elmoMithrandir: remind me if it's possible to have folders in thunderbird setup to use a certain From address?06:14
HiddenWolfelmo: yes it is06:15
elmohow?06:15
HiddenWolfelmo: message filter to make it put email from a person/list in a folder06:16
elmoeh, no, I'm talking about composing/replying to email06:16
elmoi.e. when you're in a certain folder, and you reply to the email, it should use a specific From line06:16
HiddenWolfOh, sorry, misunderstood.06:16
sladenelmo: please could you sync hotkey-setup from debian, or let me know what further needs doing first06:17
kokeelmo: I don't think so, but this may help https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?application=thunderbird&category=Miscellaneous&numpg=10&id=120306:24
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elmosladen: syncs are queueing, I'll get to them as soon as I can06:25
sladenelmo: many thanks06:27
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ograKamion, yes, that looks suspicious like #25528 :)06:39
ogragreat catch :)06:40
dokopitti: so which parsers are affected by the recent flex bug fix and must be rebuilt? ;-P06:40
dokoand in which packages ...06:40
pittidoko: that's what I'm finding out for 2 hours already now06:40
pittitedious and long job :/06:40
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pittidoko: thankfully few packages seem to be actually affected by it, but it takes ages to find them06:42
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Treenaksomg, I'm on a  channel with idiots!06:46
=== pitti cheers Treenaks
TreenaksPeople who don't want to reboot *because the reboot icon is so pretty*06:46
Treenakspitti: seriously..06:46
pittiare they afraid of losing it, or what?06:46
slomo_lol06:46
Treenakspitti: yeah06:46
TreenaksDigital hoarders... *ooh shiny thing*06:47
=== mvo knows the secret ritual to summon it
=== mvo waits patiently for his baz2bzr convert
dokopitti: yeah, and to make sure, that the lexer actually is rebuilt ...06:48
pittidoko: once I know the actually vulnerable packages, that'll be easy06:48
pittidoko: the patch is trivial, and it's even easier with packages which b-dep and use flex06:48
ograTreenaks, just put "sudo apt-get install --reinstall udev" into their session ;)06:48
ogra(probably dpkg-reconfigure is enough :) )06:49
Treenaksmvo: yeah, but you're cheating06:52
mvoTreenaks: correct :-D06:53
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ploumour new cheerleader : http://ploum.frimouvy.org/images/cheerleader.png07:10
TreenaksROTFL07:10
Treenaksploum: though he usually says 'Rock & roll!'07:10
ploumTreenaks: that's what I tought07:10
ograploum, did you fall in love with gimp recently ? 07:10
LaserJockyikes, that is scary07:11
ploumbut during FOSDEM, he always said "awesome"07:11
ograTreenaks, nah... "GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS"07:11
Treenaksploum: Please stop my eyes hurt!07:11
ploumogra: not in love. It's just that I can do what I want to do07:12
Burgworkploum, I am scared for life07:12
TreenaksBurgwork: scared or scarred? :)07:12
Burgworkboth07:12
=== ogra wonders what pia will say :)
LaserJocklol07:12
ploum:-D07:12
Treenaksploum: this is for your hackergotchi-and-hands-holding-signs-themed site?07:13
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ploumTreenaks: not really ;-)  It's just a stupid idea with kikidonk07:15
ploum(He told me that jdub is our new cheerleader)07:15
kikidonkhehe07:15
Treenaksploum: You're the Belgian twin of jdub then?07:16
ploumTreenaks: I wish I can be07:16
ploumI'm jealous !07:16
ploumTreenaks: you will give a talk about Ubuntu at LugRadio Live ?07:18
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Treenaksploum: well, keybuk is probably going to do the best one :)07:18
Treenaksploum: but I'm scheduled to do one, yes (it'll probably be about ubuntu-nl)07:18
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ploumkeybuk ?07:19
Treenaksploum: keybuk.#07:19
Treenaks-.#07:19
sivanghmm, what do I do when a user cannot connect to the X server? do I need to add him to an Xauthority file or something?07:20
Treenakssivang: why can't he connect? :)07:20
Treenakssivang: what are you trying, and why?07:20
sivangTreenaks: just su - dummy_user to check my backup program on 07:21
ploumsivang: look if the user is in the video group07:21
Treenakssivang: don't su -07:21
sivangTreenaks: but gtk won't start, (users-admin:9903): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display:07:21
Treenakssivang: just su07:21
=== sivang tries
sivang  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py", line 38, in ?07:22
sivang    from _gtk import *07:22
sivangRuntimeError: could not open display07:22
=== sivang checks the video group
ploumWell, it will not help you a lot but when su refuses to display, I ssh -X on localhost as a workaround07:22
ploumit's just a bit slower07:22
ploumhm, I think the video group is in fact only for 3D acceleration or something like that07:23
sivangerr, the same07:23
sivangploum: probably07:23
ograsivang, echo $DISPLAY ?07:24
seb128try with xhost rather07:24
sivangxhost is what I'm looking for, /me hugs seb128 07:24
sivangthanks07:24
seb128heh, stay cool, np :)07:24
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ploumpff... it's always the same with seb12807:24
seb128hey ploum :)07:24
sivangseb128: :-)07:24
ploumhe's always right ! ;-)07:25
ploumhello :-)07:25
ograploum, yes, thats very sad, you cant argue with him and expect to win07:25
ogra:)+07:25
ploumin fact, my IRC client is called : "ask seb128"07:25
ogralol07:25
ploumseb128: question for you. There's a problem with abiword mime type. It's recognized as a plain text file. Against wich package must I report the bug ?07:26
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dotwaffleGood evening, all. Any chance Daniel Silverstone is around?07:27
seb128ploum: what file? right click with nautilus, properties and look the exact mimetype07:27
Treenaksdotwaffle: --> Kinnison 07:27
dotwaffleTreenaks: thanks, I'll query him.07:27
ploumseb128: it's an abw file. That was working fine yesterday. Today it's "Text/plain" in the Mime type07:28
ograploum, so did you update abiword today ? 07:28
seb128ploum: does other stuff still work?07:28
seb128ploum: like a .zip or a .png?07:29
ploumseb128: yes. ogg, mp3, png, pdf and even exe with wine07:29
ploumogra: no07:29
seb128ploum: nothing changed for that07:29
seb128ploum: that would be a gnome-vfs2 bug so07:30
seb128ploum: feel free to open a bug and attach an example07:30
ploumI indeed upgraded it yesterday07:30
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ploumHm, there's a non-upgraded libgnome-vfs07:32
ploumI upgrade and then I report the bug07:32
ploumthanks :-)07:32
ploum(ogra : you see ! It works !)07:33
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ograploum, i'm tempted to rename my xchat as well ;)07:33
zygahey guys07:33
ogra"ask doctor seb" :)07:34
seb128I'm not a doctor, that's mdz :p07:34
ogralol 07:35
ograyeah07:35
sivangheh07:35
ploumseb128: must I report it upstream or in launchpad ?07:35
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seb128ploum: put it to launchpad, I'll forward it07:35
seb128I want to play with it first07:35
ploumperfect07:36
seb128thank you07:36
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ploumseb128: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-vfs2/+bug/3330107:42
Ubugtumalone bug 33301 in gnome-vfs2 "Abiword files have wrong MIME/Type" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  07:42
ploumdo you want a sample file ?07:42
seb128ploum: no that's fine, thank you07:43
seb128happens with a simple file stored on the disk07:43
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seb128dinner time, bbl07:43
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ploumbon appetit07:43
seb128'ci07:44
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dholbachseb128: you really say "'ci"?07:44
=== dholbach is amazed by the french's obvious lack of time :)
Treenaksdholbach: nah, the words are just FAR too long ;)07:45
G0SUBpitti there?07:45
ogradholbach, he already had his mouth full ;)07:45
Treenaksdholbach: how's Dutch Harry Potter going? :)07:45
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pittiG0SUB: about to leave to training, sorry07:45
dholbachTreenaks: veeeeryyyy slooooowlyyyyy07:45
mantienaHi all07:45
=== Burgwork hugs seb128
G0SUBpitti just 5 mins?07:46
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pittiG0SUB: please email martin.pitt@ubuntu.com, or catch me tomorrow morning07:46
dholbachpitti: have fun!07:46
pittiG0SUB: no, sorry, bus is coming in 8 minuts07:46
G0SUBpitti okay, I will07:46
G0SUBpitti see you07:46
pitticu guys07:46
G0SUBhow many hours to ``tomorrow morning''? which TZ is he in?07:46
TreenaksG0SUB: He's in CET07:47
G0SUBTreenaks what's the offset?07:47
TreenaksG0SUB: 'Western Europe', GMT+1 afaik07:48
G0SUBoh. okay07:48
G0SUBa lot of people in GMT+107:48
Treenaksall of Europe, except the UK, basically07:48
Treenaksoh and SA of course07:48
mantienadoko, hi, are you online ? I almost backported OOo 2.0.2 from your sources - all stuff was compiled properly, just got few errors when creating deb packages (install section in debian/rules)07:48
G0SUBheh07:48
ograwhich is, uhm, central europe :)07:49
mantienaTreenaks, Lithuania is in +02 ;)07:49
Treenaksogra: sure.. SA is central europe. Go tell sabdfl :P07:49
ograhehe07:49
G0SUBlol07:49
Mithrandirelmo: there exists a plugin to do it, IIRC07:51
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mantienadoko, please, tell me if you can build deb packages from 2.0.1oob680m4-0ubuntu3.1 source08:02
mantienawithout errors08:02
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jbaileyLintian bitches about hardlinks without actually saying why.  Can someone explain this to me?08:08
dholbachwhat does    lintian -i    say about the case?08:08
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jbaileyAh, recent lintian actually has a better message.08:09
jbaileyit used to say "Hardlinks are bad, mmkay?"08:09
sivangG0SUB: there's also people on GMT+2 :-)08:10
G0SUBsivang heh :)08:10
G0SUBI am on +053008:10
sivangwow, where is that?08:11
G0SUBsivang dude, India!08:11
G0SUBsivang you know, your nick is very close to being an Indian name08:14
sivangG0SUB: why thank you, I didn't realize that :)08:15
G0SUBwe may write it as Shivang ... the body of the God Shiva08:15
sivangfunny, my name get's strange sounds all over, for example, japneese call me "Sheeban-San"08:17
G0SUBsivang the JP guys just have weird pronounciations for simple names08:17
G0SUBSheeban is okay, but the extra San?08:18
sivangthat is sort of a "mr." or so I'm told08:18
TreenaksG0SUB: that's just tacked onto every Japanese name08:18
sivangyes, inded.08:18
TreenaksG0SUB: it's a politeness form08:18
G0SUBoh, I see08:18
Treenaksor something08:18
G0SUBmy name is Baishampayan Ghose ... I guess they'd pronounce it as Bison-Py-Yum GNU-Sh08:19
G0SUBa perfect Free & Open Source Software name08:19
TreenaksG0SUB: LOL :) cool08:19
G0SUBhehe08:20
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G0SUB[no offense to any JP guy. you guys rock!] 08:21
Treenaksmy nick is just a semi-pronounceable word that had 0 google hits when I chose it :)08:21
G0SUBwhy semi- ?08:21
G0SUBTreenaks I'd write it as  in my lang08:22
trappistI measure my value as a human being in google hits on my name08:22
G0SUBtrappist lol08:22
TreenaksG0SUB: hmm.. shouldn't that be a single line connecting all the characters near the top? it breaks now(?)08:22
G0SUBTreenaks yeah, it shouldn't break ... your client needs the fonts and pango08:23
TreenaksG0SUB: I have fonts, and pango (gnome-terminal)08:23
TreenaksG0SUB: guess it's the font08:23
Treenaks(monospaced)08:23
G0SUBTreenaks broken free-fonts 08:24
trappistit's all accented a's, upsidedown question marks, subscripted 4's and control characters here08:24
G0SUBTreenaks btw, do you know which lang it is?08:24
G0SUBall hits on GOOG for my name are just _mine_ ... there is none in the whole world with my name & a web presence08:24
TreenaksG0SUB: well, I know the alphabet is called Devangar08:25
G0SUBTreenaks no, it's not Hindi08:25
G0SUBTreenaks India has 18 officially recognised languages08:25
TreenaksG0SUB: isn't the alphabet shared?08:25
G0SUBwith distinct scripts08:25
Treenaks(at least by a few of those)08:26
G0SUBand thus, fonts08:26
Treenaksoh wow08:26
Treenaksmust be a support disaster ;)08:26
TreenaksG0SUB: so what is it then?08:26
G0SUBTreenaks Bengali (bn) (ben)08:26
G0SUBit uses a script which is derived from the Brahmi Script08:27
LaserJockthat's why I see all those fonts roll by when I install Ubuntu ;-)08:27
TreenaksG0SUB: *looks on omniglot.com*08:27
G0SUBthe fonts included in freefonts is badly broken08:27
G0SUBLaserJock heh08:27
TreenaksG0SUB: Omniglot reports both Hindi and Bengali as derived from Brahmi08:27
Mezinfinity: ping08:27
G0SUBTreenaks well, it's not accurate08:28
G0SUBTreenaks the Hindi script is Devnagari08:28
TreenaksG0SUB: I know that08:29
TreenaksG0SUB: it's the languages vs scripts thing I have mixed up I think08:29
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G0SUBTreenaks brahmi is a script ... both hindi & bengali are derived from Sanskrit08:29
Treenaksah08:30
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G0SUBSanskrit (sa) is the / of almost all Indic languages08:30
TreenaksG0SUB: Bengali almost looks like musical notes to me (if the renderings on http://www.omniglot.com/writing/bengali.htm are correct)08:31
G0SUBTreenaks heh, it's correct and what you said is funny08:31
G0SUBall indic languages are extremely complex for a computer to parse/understand btw :(08:32
TreenaksG0SUB: yeah, I've heard unicode rules for some Indic languages have been changed quite a few times to just make them _work_08:33
G0SUByep08:33
G0SUBand we are facing some issues with the debian G-I ... although most of them have been solved now thanks to the community08:34
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=== Treenaks -> beer :)
Treenakssee you later08:36
sivangTreenaks: you start sounding like garnacho ;p08:36
sivang(gnome-system-tools maintainer :)08:36
Treenakssivang: is that a good thing?08:36
sivangTreenaks: ofcourse !08:38
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enz0_I'm trying to extract the contents of dapper's install/initrd.gz file (which uses initramfs, right?) using 'cat initrd | (cpio -i -d -m ; cpio -i -d -m)' but get "cpio: premature end of archive" after it extracts 17Mb worth of data.  the md5 matches up so what am I doing wrong?08:46
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enz0_hrm, I just did a 'cat ../initrd | cpio -i -d -m' and it seemed cool08:48
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enz0_so what is the typical way of modifying/updating the initrd file if that's not it?08:49
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dooglusis there a channel for security bugs?09:22
Pygiwell, if security bugs exist, they should be filled as bugs if not extremly critical I think...09:23
dooglusI did that already.09:23
=== sivang wonders what gentoo.ubuntu.com is for
dooglusI was hoping to find someone to discuss it with.09:23
Pygidooglus: well, what's the issue? :)09:23
dooglusfor instance, what are "our embargo terms"?09:23
sivangdooglus: Chris ?09:23
dooglusyes, dooglus == Chris :)09:24
Pygisivang: bazaar at gentoo.ubuntu.com ?? :-/09:24
dooglusI'm looking at the last comment attached to bug 30940 and wondering what it means about "breaking our embargo terms"09:25
sivangdooglus: Hey Chris, did you find the xplenation I put on the bug report how you can do patches and upload yourself satisfactory ?09:25
Ubugtumalone bug 30940 in flex "buffer overflow vulnerability in code generated by flex" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3094009:25
dooglussivang: I did, thanks.09:25
Pygidooglus: sec pls, lemme take a look09:25
dooglussivang: so it looks like my first step is to find someone willing to sign my key?09:25
sivangdooglus: well, it can be, but in the background you can upload packages to REVU for univers so people will be able to evaluate your work, or let MOTUs grab your packages form somwhere else if you can't upload to REVU09:26
dooglussivang: what's the situation with that?  I guess each package is owned by somebody.  Won't they get annoyed if I fix bugs in 'their' packages?09:27
jbaileysivang: I don't remember off hand what the machine is for, but manyof them are named after penguins.09:28
Pygidooglus: might mean that the patch doesn't conform to ubuntu policy? :-/09:29
dooglusPygi: I was wondering if it meant that pitti had asked the flex guys not to go public with it yet, but they did.09:32
dooglusPygi: but it's not clear, is it.09:32
Pygidooglus: true, can be interpreted almost in any way :-/09:33
dooglusPygi: either way, it doesn't look to me like the patch fixes the bug...  I'm looking into it.09:34
Burgworksivang, gentoo is one of the canonical servers09:34
Pygidooglus: really? link to patch perphaps if I may look?09:34
sivangdooglus: mostly, if you have a change for the good, the original "maintianer" or the person who touched it last won't mind IIRC. In general you can contact the last uploader if in doubt (evident by the Changed-By field in the source) and aks for guidance09:34
dooglusPygi: I've not seen the patch.  But the new binary is as bad as the old one, I think.09:35
sivangdooglus: also, make sure you contact dholbach or other people in #ubuntu-motu to start with the whole process. 09:35
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enz0_is there a site where I can get more information about casper and how it's used in dapper's live cd?09:37
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sivangdooglus: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU is a good read09:38
dooglussivang: thanks09:39
sivangdooglus: my pleasure.09:40
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dokoKamion: please promote lib64asound2-dev and lib32asound2-dev to main, b-d's of gcj-4.110:05
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Mithrandirgrr11:26
Mithrandirnetworkmanager doesn't handle latin1 ESSIDs11:27
TreenaksESSIDs should be UTF-8!11:28
MithrandirNetworkManager shouldn't segfault. :-P11:28
Treenaksthat too11:28
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