[12:21] <elmo> what is galeon doing when I click on a link? it's certainly not opening it anymore.  was it broken by the firefox change?
[12:28] <Burgwork> elmo, likely the same was as epiphany
[12:29] <Kamion> mjg59: are you sure about a separate CD image? I think it should just be an ISO9660/HFS+ hybrid like we do for powerpc
[12:29] <Kamion> anyway, bedtime
[12:30] <mjg59> Kamion: If that's practical for the dapper timeframe, sure
[12:41] <jvw> sabdfl: Just curious, is every DPL also an Ubuntu Project Leader? ;-)
[12:41] <ogra> haha
[12:42] <tseng> jvw: indirectly depending on your perspective
[12:44] <LaserJock> maybe we should have a DPL LP team ;-)
[12:44] <Burgwork> jvw, in so much as decisions that affect Debian affect Ubuntu, yes
[12:44] <Seveas> Burgwork, regarding the keycodes: if you map the flag to a command you can no longer map flag+$key to anything and vice versa...
[12:45] <Burgwork> Seveas, ugh
[12:45] <dholbach> good night guys
[12:45] <Burgwork> Seveas, I consider that a bug
[12:45] <Seveas> me too
[12:46] <sivang> (pressed it accidently more then 8 seconds)
[12:54] <Burgwork> sabdfl, where the shuttleworth foundation at with releasing the specs to the freedom toaster?
[12:55] <sabdfl> Burgwork: i believe it's all public
[12:55] <sabdfl> check with jason@shuttleworthfoundation.org
[12:55] <Burgwork> sabdfl, ok, cheers
[12:58] <Pygi> anyone know when will multiple mount points  be fixed? I mean, it only requires a little patch, nothing else :)
[12:58] <Burgwork> Pygi, have you filed a bug with the patch?
[12:59] <Pygi> Burgwork: Not really :-/ But that is known bug I think...
[12:59] <Burgwork> Pygi, if it isn't, please file. This is a channel for discussing your patch to the bug, not the bug itself
[01:00] <Pygi> ok, ok, sorry :)
[01:00] <Burgwork> Pygi, np
[01:20] <sabdfl> night freedom lovers
[01:21] <tseng> g'night mark
[01:22] <ajmitch_> night
[01:22] <sistpoty> gn8 sabdfl
[01:28] <sivang> night sabdfl !
[01:36] <Mez> mdz: ping
[01:36] <mdz> yes?
[01:57] <infinity> mdz: Can I get a UVF exception to sync mod_perl2?  It's a bugfix release, has been cooking in sid for a month with no new bugs, and looks safe to me.
[01:58] <Mez> ah sorry mdz: didnt see you reply there.
[01:59] <Mez> mdz: wanted to talk about now the new structure stuff is in place whether we can get access (or i can) get access to upload to the backports pocket
[01:59] <Mez> so we can backport stuff like scim
[01:59] <Mez> I've spoken to mark breifly about it (asking whether it was a CC or TB thing) and he said that all it really needed was to convince you that backports people (aka me) were sane and sensible
[02:00] <infinity> Mez: So, are you? :)
[02:00] <mdz> Mez: what's the issue with scim?
[02:00] <Mez> mdz: the control hack doesnt work
[02:00] <mdz> why not?
[02:00] <Mez> it just wont register the changes to the control file and still builds the dapper packages
[02:01] <Mez> I mean - it'd only be on rare occasions that things were uploaded manually ... but it'd be useful to have it there
[02:01] <Mez> infinity, depends on who you ask (the sane bit anyway)
[02:02] <infinity> Mez: Surely, if the control hack isn't working, it was implemented incorrectly...
[02:02] <infinity> Mez: Do you have a source package somewhere I can look at for you?
[02:02] <Mez> infinity lemme just go and check if I deleted it or not
[02:03] <infinity> (Of course, I'm still morally opposed to swapping control files mid-build, but I doubt my opposition counts for much these days, when we have a bunch of packages doing it)
[02:03] <Mez> infinity - gimme one sec and I'll upload to revu
[02:03] <Mez> infinity, as am i - which is why I'd prefer a manual upload for it
[02:04] <infinity> Mez: Good work on dealing with Eugene as an upstream, BTW.  He's not always the easiest man to work with.
[02:05] <Mez> infinity: really? he seems to like me :D
[02:05] <Mez> he's even provided me with a free Rar licence :D
[02:06] <tenmon> how much difficult is to get a package on official repos ?
[02:06] <infinity> Mez: Lovely.  Time to use that newfound influence to ask him if we can build rar on multiple architectures for him. ;)
[02:06] <Mez> infinity, lol - he seems to be quite responsive and stuff - what problems have we had working with him before?
[02:06] <sistpoty> Mez: btw. can you add a comment stating that it's for backports after you've uploaded to revu? thx.
[02:06] <Mez> sistpoty, no probs
[02:06] <sistpoty> thx
[02:06] <Mez> I'll archive it straight away :D
[02:07] <infinity> Mez: Oh, just general problems with arrogance and stubbornness.  In other words: He's a programmer.
[02:07] <sistpoty> Mez: even better ;)
[02:07] <ajmitch_> infinity: sounds like many people I know
[02:07] <sistpoty> tenmon: depends on the packaging... for dapper we're in feature-freeze right now, meaning that we can accept new packages only for dapper+1
[02:08] <Mez> infinity, I've not really come across that - I guess users he might be weird with - but I think he believes I know what I'm doing :D
[02:08] <Mez> though making it build on multi-arches ... I dunno...
[02:08] <tenmon> sistpoty: I should submit to debian first then?
[02:08] <Mez> I dont think he'll release the source code
[02:08] <Arrogance> infinity, and thank you for noticing
[02:08] <Arrogance> although I don't know stubbornness
[02:08] <infinity> Mez: He might release it under and NDA (so we still can only distribute binaries, but we could BIULD for all arches and provide those binaries to him)
[02:09] <infinity> Mez: If you asked really, really nicely. :P
[02:09] <sistpoty> tenmon: that's always an option... that way the package will get autosynced for dapper+1
[02:09] <tenmon> sistpoty: ok, thanks
[02:09] <Mez> infinity, cool - would you be willing to provide the hardware to build on ?
[02:09] <infinity> Mez: s/and NDA/an NDA/
[02:09] <infinity> Mez: It could be worked out, if he was into the idea.
[02:10] <Mez> infinity: I'll chat with him and see what he thinks
[02:11] <Mez> sistpoty: ping
[02:11] <sistpoty> Mez: pong
[02:11] <infinity> Mez: Although, you could already cleverly package his binaries for amd64 (and have the package depend on libc6-i386), if you wanted to cover two arches...
[02:11] <Mez> sistpoty, where on tiber is the FTP incoming dir - I need something deleted them
[02:11] <Mez> infinity, lol
[02:11] <sistpoty> Mez: /home/ftp/incoming... I'll take a look
[02:12] <sistpoty> Mez: what package?
[02:12] <Mez> scim
[02:13] <sistpoty> Mez: deleted
[02:13] <Mez> cheers
[02:13] <Mez> infinity - I'll CC: you
[02:13] <Mez> still adconrad@0c3.net
[02:15] <infinity> Mez: Yup.
[02:21] <Mez> infinity, sent :D
[02:22] <Mez> It's worth a try
[02:24] <Mez> mdz: but what do you think about the possibility of it?
[02:24] <ogra> argl argl argl 
[02:24] <Mez> oy oy oy ?
[02:24] <Mez> hola ogra
[02:25] <ogra> xine-ui actually includes the complete xscreensaver-command source to send a fake event all 30 seconds ... 
[02:25] <Mez> lol
[02:25] <ogra> *sigh*
[02:27] <Mez> infinity, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2081
[02:27] <ajmitch_> ogra: that is quite an impressive waste of code
[02:27] <ogra> ajmitch_, yup
[02:28] <ogra> you can write a fake event function for X in about 30 lines ... (including declarations and comments)
[02:29] <ogra> xscreensaver-command is 650 lines .... and not much of it will be used ...
[02:29] <mjg59> Programs that directly interface with xscreensaver deserve to lose
[02:31] <elmo> argh, are you kidding me
[02:31] <elmo> we don't migrate preferences from xscreensaver to gnome-screensaver?
[02:31] <ogra> elmo, working on it 
[02:32] <ogra> currently i'm hitting all the media players to recpect g-s-s ...
[02:32] <elmo> ogra: ah, ok, great
[02:32] <elmo> ogra: actually, I mean user preferences
[02:32] <ogra> its very intresting, verey player has its own solution ...
[02:32] <mdz> Mez: I don't like the idea of backports being a branch
[02:32] <mdz> Mez: the problem with scim just sounds like a bug
[02:33] <ogra> elmo, https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/31511
[02:33] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31511 in gnome-screensaver "Settings lost during an upgrade" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[02:33] <Mez> mdz: surely it already is ?
[02:33] <elmo> ogra: ok, cool
[02:33] <mdz> Mez: it isn't; it's a build system
[02:33] <infinity> Mez: Well, right now it's a binary branch, but not a source branch, which makes it more manageable (generally)
[02:33] <elmo> ogra: also gnome-screensaver's config doesn't seem to list some hacks, have I got some reduced subset installed?
[02:33] <elmo> lost
[02:34] <Mez> ah: ok...
[02:34] <Mez> but mdz: surely you can see my POV to get rid of dirty hacks like this ?
[02:34] <ogra> elmo, do you have xscreensaver-data-extra and xscreensaver-gl-extra installed ? 
[02:34] <Mez> and also means we might be able to backport more things
[02:35] <mdz> Mez: why do you even need a control file hack with scim? it looks like it should build unmodified on breezy
[02:35] <Mez> mdz: it'll build - yes
[02:35] <Mez> but - thngs depend on libscim8 in breezy
[02:35] <Mez> and libscim8c2a in dapper
[02:35] <elmo> ogra: no.  meh.
[02:35] <ogra> elmo, xscreensaver-data and -gl only contain the selection we enabled by default since warty ... the rest went into the -extra packages
[02:35] <ogra> so we save 5MB on the Cd :)
[02:35] <mdz> ah, right
[02:36] <Mez> and well - we dont wanna go and backport the 20 packages that depend on it :D
[02:36] <Mez> s/20/18
[02:37] <mdz> Mez: that's a problem specific to breezy, which will disappear with Dapper and hopefully not happen for a long time after, but I see your point
[02:37] <Mez> (which includes libstdc++6)
[02:37] <mdz> Mez: still, it seems better to keep all of the code in one place; when it's updated in dapper, you don't need to do a merge
[02:37] <mdz> it's less error-prone once it's working
[02:38] <Mez> mdz: true - but well - theres stuff thats been backported thats now a newer version in dapper...
[02:38] <Mez> lol - and thats stayed the same without a merge :D
[02:38] <mdz> Mez: what do you mean?
[02:38] <Mez> mdz: for example
[02:38] <mdz> either you modify the source relative to dapper, or you don't
[02:38] <mdz> if you modify it, you need to do a merge when it's updated
[02:39] <Mez> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=k3b
[02:39] <infinity> I think his point is that updates in dapper aren't automatically backported, which I assume is a feature, not a bug.
[02:39] <Mez> in bacports it 0.12.7
[02:39] <Mez> infinity - yes that was my point
[02:39] <mdz> ok, then you're misunderstanding what I'm saying
[02:39] <Mez> mdz: asI said - this is only going to be for a couple of one off things like scim
[02:39] <mdz> a merge is where you need to reconcile two branches of code
[02:39] <infinity> Mez: Feh.  You didn't do this upload relative to the current source in dapper. :)
[02:40] <mdz> whereas what we have today is copying the source (not even) from one place to another
[02:40] <Mez> infinity - has it been updated in dapper?
[02:40] <Mez> grr
[02:40] <Mez> mdz: I agree...
[02:40] <Mez> but as I said - for the most part, other than the odd occasion - it'll stay the same...
[02:40] <mdz> there were quality problems with the old backports where they diverged
[02:40] <Mez> mdz: I know :D
[02:40] <Mez> lol
[02:41] <Mez> however: none of them were caused by me
[02:42] <Mez> infinity: I'll grab the latest copy of scim and make the chanegs - didnt realise it had been changed in dapper recently
[02:43] <Mez> infiity: wait - wtf you on about - it is relative to the current source in dapper
[02:43] <infinity> Mez: Current scim in dapper is -1ubuntu1... Which is also what you gave me.
[02:44] <Mez> infinity, yeah ...
[02:44] <Mez> er. ..
[02:44] <Mez> but mine has changes
[02:44] <Mez> oh
[02:44] <Mez> I see what you mean :D
[02:44] <Mez> lol
[02:44] <Mez> I didnt realise there'd been a scim hack for ubuntu 
[02:46] <infinity> Mez: Also, you don't need to build-depend on "base-files"... It's an essential package.
[02:46] <infinity> (A system would be pretty broken without it)
[02:46] <mdz> Mez: how about this: I'm happy for ubuntu-core-dev to be able to upload to -backports, so if the changes are reviewed and uploaded by a core dev, the source can diverge
[02:46] <Mez> mdz: that sounds cool to me
[02:46] <infinity> mdz: That would work for me.
[02:46] <mdz> done
[02:46] <Mez> and gives me a reason to go for my core-dev :D
[02:46] <Mez> (which I've been holding off as I dont need it atm)
[02:47] <infinity> mdz: It would also mean that for those of us who handle backportability in our own packages (thinking of me and pitti here, at least), we can remove some dirty hacks and do direct backports uploads.
[02:49] <mdz> infinity: yep
[02:49] <Mez> mdz: sounds good to me if you're willing for it - just lemme know what needs to be done on my side - if anything
[02:50] <mdz> Mez: I'll take it from here
[02:51] <infinity> (Although, there's a certin point of perverse pride in knowing that everything I maintain can build, in some hackish way or other, on sarge, etch, hoary, breezy, and dapper)
[02:51] <Mez> mdz: cool - expect a core-dev application from me within the next few months then
[02:51] <mdz> Mez: expect some hard questions from the board ;-)
[02:52] <ajmitch_> Mez: you think you're ready for it?
[02:52] <Mez> ajmitch_, hence why I said in the next few months
[02:52] <infinity> s/once/one/
[02:52] <LaserJock> hmm, so would LP be good for any distro to use?
[02:52] <infinity> LaserJock: Not yet, but that's certainly the plan.
[02:52] <Mez> ajmitch: I dont really need it to be honest - I've had no problem getting stuff sponsored anyways
[02:53] <infinity> LaserJock: For now, it's getting to the point where any Debian/Ubuntu derivative could use it end-to-end, but we don't have (for instance) buildd support for RPM-based systems.
[02:53] <LaserJock> infinity: I'm talking with some Fink devs right now.
[02:53] <infinity> Ahh, fink is dpkg-based, yes?
[02:54] <LaserJock> yes
[02:54] <LaserJock> I just wonder if there is anything that LP could offer them
[02:54] <infinity> Then, in theory, LP could be made to support fink reasonably easily, with a bit of hacking and some prayer.
[02:54] <infinity> LaserJock: You'd really need to talk to the LP team (and include Mark) to get an idea of A) how much work it would be, and B) how much priority/manpower we could throw at the problem.
[02:55] <infinity> LaserJock: So, #launchpad would be a good start.
[02:55] <LaserJock> infinity: yeah, thanks
[02:57] <Mez> infinity - I'll er - do a merge :D
[02:57] <infinity> Mez: Thanks.
[02:59] <Mez> infinity, though the B-D on base-files is neccesary - as well - when we were backporting KDE - that caused problems with the control hack in that
[03:00] <infinity> Mez: It's impossoble for a buildd chroot to NOT have base-files installed.
[03:00] <infinity> impossible, too.
[03:00] <infinity> Mez: If you've found one that somehow claims not to, yell at me.
[03:01] <infinity> Mez: Cause it'd be VERY broken.
[03:01] <Mez> infinity: lol - well er - I'm working with pbuilds :D
[03:01] <Mez> and it doesnt seem to grab the Essential stuff there
[03:01] <infinity> Mez: Same deal.  pbuilder shouldn't be able to make a chroot that's missing "Essential: yes" packages.
[03:02] <Mez> infinity, weird: because it screwed up a KDE backport cause of that
[03:04] <ajmitch_> mdz: are TB meetings going to remain at 2000UTC?
[03:11] <Mez> sistpoty, ping
[03:11] <sistpoty> Mez: pong
[03:12] <Mez> sistpoty, I cant get nuke_upload.py to work
[03:12] <sistpoty> Mez: basically you shouldn't ;)
[03:12] <Mez> sistpoty, why not?
[03:12] <sistpoty> Mez: you can do it with the web-interface ;)
[03:12] <Mez> can I?
[03:12] <Mez> where?
[03:13] <sistpoty> Mez: just a second, I'll check if you are set to admin, otherwise you can't nuke uploads
[03:13] <aal2000> Howdy, is there a ppc specific development channel ?
[03:13] <Mez> ah thts prob y then
[03:13] <Mez> I'm not
[03:13] <mdz> ajmitch_: until someone proposes a different scheme and the board agrees...otherwise inertia wins
[03:15] <sistpoty> Mez: now you should be able to do it ;)
[03:16] <Mez> sistpoty, lol - I just updated myself aswell
[03:16] <Mez> lol
[03:16] <sistpoty> hehe
[03:16] <sistpoty> Mez: problem with nuke_uploads is, that I simply don't know if it's still current/what hacks reside in it (if any) and you might need sudo-rights for it
[03:16] <Mez> sistpoty, I cant see a nuke button
[03:17] <sistpoty> Mez: you'll need to archive an upload first. then you'll have a nuke link in the list right next to unarchive
[03:17] <Mez> archive then nuke
[03:17] <sistpoty> hehe... your faster than I write ;)
[03:17] <Mez> ;)
[03:18] <aal2000> Who can I speak to in relation to adding a piece of software to the ubuntu distribution?
[03:18] <aal2000> It's for imac G5 SMU control.  
[03:18] <Mez> sistpoty, surely there should be a "are you sure" for nuking stuff?
[03:19] <sistpoty> Mez: bah... the solution is to give admin-rights only to ppl. who know what they're doing... ;)
[03:19] <freeflying> aal2000: add your software to wiki/MOTU/Candidates
[03:19] <Mez> sistpoty, true - but it's kinda disconcerting
[03:20] <sistpoty> Mez: revu1 is basically a crude hack... I guess we can add this to revu2
[03:20] <ajmitch_> Mez: just use it with caution then
[03:20] <Mez> ajmitch_, I will dont worry - lol - but all it takes is an accidental click
[03:20] <aal2000> freeflying: thanks.
[03:21] <sistpoty> Mez: you'll need to archive an upload first... so you'll need two accidents ;)
[03:21] <Mez> sistpoty, can I hack in a javascript yes no?
[03:21] <Mez> sistpoty - not if you accidentally nuke an archived upload instead of unarchiving
[03:22] <sistpoty> Mez: javascript in the comment fields? yes, that's possible, since it doesn't check for anything... though you'll need at least a revu-account to post comments
[03:23] <Mez> sistpoty, no I mean - add in a hack for the nuke link
[03:23] <Mez> so it doesnt nuke it unless you click a javascript box saying yes
[03:24] <sistpoty> Mez: hm... might be worth a try, though I generally dislike javasript
[03:24] <Mez> or even another "confirm" page
[03:25] <sistpoty> Mez: imo a confirm-page would be better... thus you can use revu full-featured with js disabled as well
[03:25] <infinity> Or instead of another page (which is another round-trip), just a checkbox under the "nuke" button that says "yes, I know what I'm doing"
[03:25] <Mez> infinity, or even better "no, I'm not an idiot"
[03:25] <sistpoty> hehe
[03:26] <Mez> though I wouldnt be able to use it then
[03:26] <Mez> hey seth
[03:26] <seth> hey Mez 
[03:26] <sistpoty> however as stated before... revu1 is nothing but a crude hack, and changing it is *erm* hacking even more hacks to a screwed up design... I'd rather work on revu2 than change revu1 ;)
[04:20] <elmo> gnome-screensaver is still horribly horribly slow to bring the unlock dialog up
[04:35] <sladen> elmo: please sync hotkey-setup 0.1-14 from sid.  This has been outstanding for about a fortnight
[04:37] <sistpoty> good night everyone
[05:06] <Mez> infinity - did you see my latest upload to revu?
[05:14] <fabbione> morning
[05:15] <ajmitch_> morning fabbione 
[05:16] <infinity> Mez: Err, no.  I'm revu illiterate.  URL?
[05:21] <sladen> infinity: probably http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2082
[05:27] <infinity> sladen: That does seem likely, yes.
[07:04] <jdub> whiprush: what are all these photos in your flickr feed?
[07:06] <whiprush> jdub: blogging now.
[07:06] <whiprush> gimme 5
[07:08] <jdub> whiprush: heh
[07:09] <ajmitch_> whiprush: so we have to sit at your blog hitting refresh to find out?
[07:11] <Burglaptop> jdub: I need your help in #edubuntu
[07:14] <Burglaptop> ok, general irc question. If i have ops with one nick and I link my other nicks, do all have ops?
[07:14] <Burglaptop> and I seriously need help in #edubuntu
[07:15] <ajmitch_> Burglaptop: they should
[07:15] <Burglaptop> ok
[07:15] <whiprush> jdub: http://www.whiprush.org/2006/03/tegnologiedetro.html
[07:17] <ajmitch_> whiprush: nicely done
[07:17] <Burglaptop> very cool
[07:17] <ajmitch_> hm, f-spot 0.1.20, I'm glad I'm not basing this version on upstream'
[07:18] <ajmitch_> s sleep-deprived typos
[07:18] <Treenaks> whiprush: heh.. I always have to do that after posting on my blog :)
[07:19] <Treenaks> whiprush: *post* *re-read* *last-second-fixes* *planet comes by*
[07:19] <Burglaptop> whiprush: that networking bug should be fixed in dapper
[07:19] <Burglaptop> Treenaks: indeed
[07:19] <jdub> whiprush: eh, sweet :)
[07:19] <whiprush> the trick is to know when to publish. You want to miss a planet feed by a minute, so you have 9 minutes to fix.
[07:19] <jdub> whiprush: btw, you should look for 'mark of cain' music
[07:20] <whiprush> mark of cain?
[07:20] <whiprush> like, the guy that killed abel?
[07:20] <jdub> turns out they have an official website
[07:20] <jdub> http://www.tmoc.com.au/
[07:20] <jdub> i think you'd dig it
[07:20] <whiprush> this looks like metal.
[07:21] <Treenaks> btw, the moviegotchis are popular again (because of the new additions)
[07:21] <ealden> whiprush, hi. does the fridge have an rss feed?
[07:21] <Treenaks> so popular that I exceeded my bandwidth quota for February with 2GB
[07:21] <Treenaks> ealden: it does
[07:29] <whiprush> jdub: it would be nice if the fridge lit up that RSS icon in firefox, the one that shows up in the corner.
[07:30] <jdub> hrm, wonder why it doesn't
[07:30] <jdub> it has useful link bits
[07:30] <whiprush> ealden: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/atom/feed should work for you
[07:31] <ealden> whiprush, ah. there. thanks
[07:37] <sladen> jdub: do you have  <link href="..." rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="..." />  ?
[07:39] <sladen> ...appears to work for me(tm)
[07:42] <robitaille> same here...the fridge lit up that rss icon in my firefox
[07:43] <Lathiat> works in konqueror here too
[07:43] <jdub> whiprush: you using firefox 1.5 on windows, perchance?
[07:45] <whiprush> yep
[07:45] <whiprush> at the moment
[07:45] <jdub> aha
[07:45] <jdub> interesting
[07:45] <jdub> i thought it worked because i was previously looking at ff1.5 in dapper
[07:45] <jdub> but just then, was looking at it in windows
[07:46] <whiprush> odd that something like that is platform specific
[07:46] <Lathiat> could be a bug
[07:46] <Lathiat> like in the windowing stuff
[07:46] <Lathiat> or something
[07:46] <jdub> odd like iz gtk boog
[07:46] <Lathiat> or actually
[07:46] <Lathiat> what does firefox's rss icon do
[07:46] <Lathiat> launches what?
[07:46] <whiprush> nothing
[07:47] <whiprush> just lets you bookmark it as a feed
[07:47] <Lathiat> oh ok
[07:47] <whiprush> within the application
[07:47] <Lathiat> (in konq, here, it lets me add it to akregator, so i was thinking a little different)
[07:48] <jdub> Kamion: ping
[08:14] <Mez> mdz or Kamion ping
[08:52] <Mez> Kamion: can I request an UVF exception for katapult
[08:52] <Mez> so as to sync from debian ... and fix a couple of minor bugs
[09:12] <sivang> morning all
[09:18] <Burglaptop> morning sivang
[09:20] <pitti> Good morning
[09:20] <zakame> hello sivang Burglaptop
[09:23] <sivang> and ofcourse, Burglaptop 
[09:27] <seb128> mdz: around?
[09:28] <seb128> mdz: we had a consensus to not ship xchat-gnome for dapper?
[09:36] <pitti> hi sivang 
[09:36] <pitti> hi mvo
[09:37] <sivang> moins mvo 
[09:39] <mvo> hello pitti, sivang!
[09:40] <Kamion> jdub: pong
[09:40] <Kamion> Mez: send us mail with the upstream changelog or NEWS file snippet or whatever, please
[09:41] <Mez> Kamion .... er
[09:41] <Mez> *thinks*
[09:41] <Mez> the changelog isnt complete
[09:41] <Mez> because of the baz-> bzr changes
[09:41] <Kamion> you're really persuading me here ;-)
[09:41] <Kamion> a description of the upstream changes
[09:56] <Mez> Kamion: the main reason I want to request it is because I'd rather just sync with debian
[09:56] <Mez> atm - theres no new usptream version in debian 
[09:56] <Mez> but there will be soon
[09:56] <Mez> and I dont believe elmo has got round to syncing it...
[09:57] <Mez> so - I'll need an UVF exception if it gets to that after the neew version goes into debian
[10:02] <jdub> Kamion: bah, will have to remember to put payloads in my pings again
[10:02] <seb128> Kamion: I've changed a couple of GNOME packages to get -dbg binary, should I ping you when I do so? Or so you notice them from NEW? Should I update the supported list to mention them?
[10:16] <jdub> Kamion: that's right -> what's up with ubuntu-artwork?
[10:18] <ccharles> so, should i assume that all dapper cd images created are installable without issue? 
[10:19] <Keybuk> Happy Mailman Day, everyone!
[10:20] <zakame> yay, HMD
[10:21] <simira> good morning, Keybuk?
[10:23] <Keybuk> simira: overslept
[10:23] <simira> Keybuk: oh, so you didn't have to shovel yourself out of the hotel today?
[10:24] <pitti> Hi Keybuk 
[10:26] <Keybuk> hey berpitt
[10:26] <Keybuk> +i
[10:30] <slomo_> lamont, infinity: please give-back tomboy (amd64) and gaim (ppc, ia64, amd64)... thanks
[10:33] <sivang> morning Keybuk , slomo, jdub , simira 
[10:33] <dholbach> hello!
[10:34] <slomo_> hi dholbach and sivang :)
[10:34] <dholbach> hey slomo_ :)
[10:34] <jdub> yo
[10:37] <sivang> dholbach: hi
[10:38] <dholbach> hi sivang
[10:40] <sivang> dholbach: is it still cold for you there? (getting too hot in here) :)
[10:40] <dholbach> it's 1C - that's fine
[10:46] <Mithrandir> dholbach: I'd argue that 29658 shouldn't be rejected since C-u works that way in gdm.
[10:47] <dholbach> Mithrandir: i see, I'll tell upstream.
[11:07] <jamesh> seb128: that second bug you asked me to import falls under the same category as the first.  I plan to handle them all in one go, so you shouldn't have to ask again.
[11:08] <seb128> jamesh: yeah, I've read your mail and planned to reply but got a bit busy with GNOME 2.13.92, thank you :)
[11:16] <arp> How can I speak to about HAL?
[11:16] <pitti> arp: by typing questions and comments here :)
[11:16] <arp> It segfaults on ppc64, if I could get the proper configure options I could build it here and debug it.
[11:17] <pitti> arp: let's take this to /msg
[11:22] <slomo_> infinity, lamont: please give-back libgnomeui on ppc
[11:25] <pitti> seb128: just trying beagle for main inclusion status; is beagled started automatically somehow? I had to start it by hand
[11:25] <seb128> should be started by apps needing it
[11:26] <seb128> other way start it by hand
[11:26] <slomo_> pitti: when you try to search something when beagled is not running it asks you whether you want to start it (at least in beagle-search)
[11:26] <seb128> ie: if nautilus is built with libbeagle it should start it when you try using it
[11:26] <pitti> there shouldn't be an autostart .desktop or so?
[11:26] <seb128> would be nice probably yep
[11:26] <pitti> since it takes ages to get the first index
[11:26] <seb128> FC5 has a .desktop for autostart
[11:33] <ccharles> pitti: hello :) and thanks for the email. i guess this is where we can talk more, when required. i presume the rest are here as well, right?
[11:33] <pitti> ccharles: welcome here :) Right
[11:33] <pitti> ccharles: just /msg me if you have some specific packaging and development tools questions
[11:33] <pitti> ccharles: discussing new features is fine in this channel
[11:34] <ccharles> pitti: will do. thanks. i've got the latest dapper ISO which i'll pop on soon. better than working in emulators, imho
[11:35] <Kamion> jdub: failed to build again, see https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-artwork/2
[11:35] <WaterSevenUb> Kamion, not sure what happened but if you choose. F2 Language, "Portuguese", then "F5" , appears an empty box instead of the english strings. Hope nothing important after I provide the translations. Just to let you know.
[11:41] <pitti> slomo_: yay, dbus built everywhere, thanks :)
[11:48] <netstar> I'm curious will there be checks for beagle to see whether the user is upgrading from an old machine, and thus asked whether they want to populate the beagle database quickly on first boot?
[11:48] <netstar> s/boot/login
[11:49] <netstar> With large existing home directories it becomes pretty useless.  Especially if that directory is very active.
[11:50] <netstar> unless you populate beagles db.
[11:51] <netstar> pitti, wait!
[11:52] <netstar> 2 seconds, I need to double check...
[11:52] <netstar> I might have just borked the last package...but I tried to reload hal via dbus and it crashed again...just running the original options again and will try that (sorry)
[11:52] <netstar> very sorry
[11:52] <pitti> netstar: right, you killed the local patch in the build tree
[11:53] <pitti> netstar: -> /msg again
[12:01] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: please file a bug so I remember to look into that
[12:07] <WaterSevenUb> Kamion, gfxboot-theme-ubuntu/+bug/33244... u probably want this one too cdrom-checker/+bug/31753 ;-))
[12:13] <pitti> Keybuk: hmm, network-manager doesn't work any more with l-wlan-ng, and it became crashy
[12:14] <pitti> Keybuk: I'll check if my l-w-n patches are still ok in the current package, ok?
[12:19] <Mithrandir> dholbach: any idea how well separated the UI in ekiga is from the rest of the functionality?
[12:20] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: there's no point telling me about random other bugs right now - you see I *urgently* have to get espresso done and anything else has to take a back seat until then
[12:20] <Kamion> I'll go through my bug list later in the cycle
[12:20] <dholbach> Mithrandir: what do you want to know exactly?
[12:20] <WaterSevenUb> Kamion, ok, sorry.
[12:20] <seb128> Kamion: did you read what I said this morning?
[12:20] <seb128> Kinnison: around?
[12:21] <Kamion> hence "file a bug and I'll get to it later" :-)
[12:21] <Mithrandir> dholbach: how hard would it be to rip out the UI and replace it with, say, a web interface.
[12:21] <Kinnison> g-p-m upstream are making my life even easier
[12:21] <Kamion> seb128: yes
[12:21] <Kinnison> seb128: yes?
[12:21] <Kamion> seb128: I'll process stuff from NEW in a second
[12:21] <Kinnison> ogra: richard is taking even more from our patch upstream :-)
[12:21] <Kamion> seb128: you should add them to supported, yes
[12:21] <seb128> Kamion: should I ping you (ie: does it make your job easier) to list changes I do? and should I updated supported list?
[12:21] <dholbach> Mithrandir: no idea, sorry
[12:21] <seb128> k, thank you
[12:21] <Kamion> seb128: no need to ping me, it makes my job harder
[12:21] <Mithrandir> dholbach: 'k, thanks anyway
[12:21] <seb128> Kinnison: so gnome-session upstream has changed code to match the spec
[12:21] <seb128> Kamion: noted
[12:21] <dholbach> Mithrandir: i suppose it'd mean *quite* a bit of new code
[12:22] <Kinnison> seb128: how do you mean?
[12:22] <Kamion> seb128: (unless it's really urgent)
[12:22] <Diziet> Scary.  I just booted a kernel without a correct corresponding modules.dep and the of messages from modprobe are ... copious.
[12:22] <Diziet> No wonder booting is so slow nowadays.
[12:23] <seb128> Kinnison: autostart is either /etc/xdg/autostart or /usr/share/gnome/autostart now
[12:23] <Kinnison> right
[12:23] <seb128> Kinnison: spec says it's etc and some distro use that, so they list both
[12:23] <Kinnison> so g-p-m should use /usr/share/gnome/autostart since it's gnomeish?
[12:23] <seb128> and they changed /usr/share/autostart to /usr/share/gnome/autostart to not conflict with KDE
[12:24] <seb128> Kinnison: I'm wondering it should not use /etc, it would allow a sysadmin to delete the .desktop if he wants to
[12:24] <Kinnison> seb128: Okay, I'll let it go back to /etc
[12:24] <seb128> Kinnison: I was mentionning it for discussion 
[12:24] <seb128> so your opinion on /etc or /usr is welcome :)
[12:25] <Kinnison> seb128: I think /etc sounds good for the sysadmin PoV providing we can tell the .desktop only to load on gnome
[12:25] <Kinnison> is that possible?
[12:25] <pitti> Mithrandir: gksudo doesn't do anything on the current live cd; known, or want a bug report?
[12:25] <ogra> Kinnison, wow, cool, even he ranted a lot in the other bug ...
[12:25] <Kinnison> ogra: yeah, we've sorted that out off-launchpad
[12:26] <Kinnison> ogra: He was just a bit miffed that I hadn't punted a bunch of this upstream but after I explained about the FF crunch he agreed to just try and take them himself
[12:26] <seb128> Kinnison: OnlyShowIn=GNOME;
[12:26] <Kinnison> seb128: thanks
[12:26] <seb128> np
[12:26] <Seveas> Keybuk, you evil fiendish overlord
[12:26] <Seveas> now i have Grease song in my head....
[12:26] <ogra> Kinnison, yup :)
[12:28] <simira> Seveas: what's wrong with Grease?
[12:28] <Treenaks> simira: I think it's the quoting Grease in changelogs thing :)
[12:28] <Seveas> simira, it's 12:28 and I woke up 30 minutes ago, grease is too much right now
[12:28] <Seveas> and yet, Keybuks changelogs.....
[12:29] <Mithrandir> pitti: "doesn't do anything" is not a very useful bug report..
[12:30] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'll look at it
[12:30] <Keybuk>  You're the one that I want
[12:30] <Keybuk>  Ooh-Ooh-Ooh
[12:31] <simira> Hopelessly devoted....?
[12:31] <pitti> Mithrandir: i. e. 'gksudo command' just returns to the shell without printing or asking anything (nor executing that command)
[12:31] <Mithrandir> pitti: does sudo work?
[12:32] <seb128> where sudo works fine
[12:32] <pitti> Mithrandir: yes
[12:32] <Mithrandir> pitti: sounds like a gksudo bug, then.
[12:35] <netstar> working here...
[12:35] <pitti> netstar: on the latest live CD?
[12:36] <Mithrandir> pitti: let me check now that vmware finally decided it like the current cd.
[12:36] <seb128> pitti: I had the issue friday already
[12:36] <netstar> pitti, on last night's snapshot
[12:36] <Mithrandir> pitti: WFM
[12:37] <pitti> hmm
[12:37] <pitti> amd64?
[12:37] <Mithrandir> vmware, so i386
[12:37] <netstar> ppc G5
[12:37] <Mithrandir> the closest amd64 is decapitated ATM due to Scott wanting a piece of desk. :-P
[12:38] <pitti> ok, I'll debug it the next time I load the live CD
[12:38] <Mithrandir> thanks
[12:40] <dholbach> Kamion: if you find the time at some stage, you might want to demote gossip to universe (i removed it from the seeds already)
[12:41] <Kamion> dholbach: done
[12:41] <dholbach> Kamion: You ROCK! :-)
[12:41] <Kamion> pitti: I've had a similar issue, yes
[12:41] <Kamion> in my case it printed a few bytes of garbage
[12:44] <sladen> win 9
[12:47] <Toma-> is there a part of launchpad where you can request features? obviously not for dapper tho
[12:48] <Treenaks> Toma-: file wishlist bugs?
[12:48] <dholbach> Toma-: the best way to do this is write a specification
[12:48] <Toma-> thats it
[12:48] <dholbach> Toma-: the clearer the specification is, the more likely it is to get it implemented and people rallied around it
[12:49] <Toma-> dholbach, ok. ill write a big blog on it :D thanks
[12:49] <dholbach> the wiki is the better place for this
[12:49] <dholbach> so people can change it
[12:49] <sivang> Toma-: Make sure you're idea hasn't already been implemented or already being worked on
[12:50] <Toma-> oh, its not.
[12:50] <dholbach> this is what I'd answer on a bug report, if it's just a "hey guys, do this: ...":     'Thanks for your report. Your idea might get more attention and have the possibility of being implemented if you would submit a specification for this. You should first check whether it already exists at the Ubuntu specs page (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs) in Launchpad. If that is the case, feel free to contact the drafter of that spec abou
[12:50] <dholbach> t your comments/suggestions. Otherwise you can start writing a spec following the steps described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureSpecifications.'
[12:52] <Toma-> that FeatureSpecifications page doesnt exist yet...
[12:53] <dholbach> errrrm
[12:53] <dholbach> it does
[12:53] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureSpecifications
[12:53] <dholbach> you just have to remove the ".'" from the url
[12:54] <Toma-> oh yeh :D silly me
[12:56] <jono_> hey all
[12:56] <tseng> hi jono_ 
[12:56] <jono_> hey tseng
[12:57] <jono_> do we have any idea yet if the live cd will be the only CD shipped?
[12:57] <Toma-> gosh, launchpad sux for creating an account :|
[12:57] <Kamion> jono_: no.
[12:58] <sivang> Toma-: what seems to be the problem?
[12:58] <Kamion> I doubt we'll decide that for sure until quite a bit further down the line.
[12:58] <jono_> Kamion, no worries
[12:58] <pitti> Kinnison: Hey Mr. g-p-m guru, do you have a mintue for me?
[12:58] <Kamion> seb128: -dbg stuff all done I think
[12:58] <Toma-> "passwords dont match" and theres only 1 password box on this launchpad wiki page
[12:58] <seb128> Kamion: thank you, I'll updated the supported list
[12:58] <jono_> Kamion, just expect me to pop in here every so often and ask the same question - feel free to beat me with a stick if at all neccessary
[12:58] <jono_> :)
[12:58] <seb128> update
[12:59] <Toma-> forget about it...
[12:59] <sivang> Toma-: join #launchpad, there are people there that can help you.
[12:59] <Toma-> ok
[12:59] <Kamion> seb128: (in general, you can/should do that before NEW processing happens)
[12:59] <seb128> (noted)
[01:00] <Kinnison> pitti: umm, can do
[01:00] <Kinnison> pitti: what's up?
[01:01] <pitti> Kinnison: on powerpc, we have a daemon 'pbbuttonsd' which does PM, apple function key handling, etc.
[01:01] <pitti> Kinnison: which has the effect that both pbbuttonsd and g-p-m want to do PM
[01:02] <pitti> Kinnison: this e. g. leads to the effect that after resuming from sleep, the computer immediately sleeps again
[01:02] <pitti> Kinnison: I hoped to be able to drop pbbuttonsd from desktop entirely (i. e. I made pmi independent of pbbuttonsd)
[01:02] <Kinnison> so what's left that pbbuttonsd does that we can't do otherwise?
[01:02] <pitti> Kinnison: however, pbbuttonsd does other important things, like controlling the mousepad and function keys, etc.
[01:03] <Kinnison> Right
[01:03] <torkel> pitti: happens on my thinkpad T40p too, I have to press the Fn button an extra time to resume
[01:03] <Kinnison> can we just disable the bits of pbbuttonsd we don't want?
[01:03] <pitti> Kinnison: in addition, pbbuttonsd even works if no user is logged in
[01:03] <Kinnison> pitti: yeah, we still lack a policy for noone-logged-in stuff
[01:03] <pitti> Kinnison: we already disabled brigthness and volume control, i. e. crippled it already
[01:04] <pitti> crippling it further would make it almost useless for people who don't run gnome
[01:04] <Kinnison> pitti: can it look for gnome-power-manager and if running, defer to that?
[01:04] <pitti> Kinnison: it doesn't work well in that direction, pbbuttonsd is a system daemon
[01:04] <pitti> started earlier than g-p-m, and so on
[01:04] <pitti> but I'm not sure whether g-p-m should disable PM if it sees pbbuttonsd running
[01:05] <pitti> it's just pretty messy right now
[01:06] <Kinnison> pitti: I'm still stuck in patch-hell getting integrated with what upstream have done
[01:07] <Kinnison> pitti: once I actually have my new g-p-m uploaded we can chat more about this kind of policy, perhaps with mjg59 in on the discussion?
[01:07] <pitti> Kinnison: yes, would be nice
[01:07] <pitti> I'll think about it in the meantime
[01:09] <jono_> any here able to post to the fridge?
[01:09] <dholbach> jono_: fridge-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[01:09] <freeflying> pitti: hi
[01:10] <pitti> hi freeflying 
[01:10] <jono_> dholbach, ok, will send it there :)
[01:10] <dholbach> jono_: ROCK! :)
[01:10] <freeflying> pitti: which language package depend on im-switch now ?
[01:11] <pitti> freeflying: I didn't yet change anything about this
[01:11] <pitti> freeflying: for which languages is it necessary?
[01:11] <pitti> freeflying: for all that provide a scim module?
[01:12] <Toma-> dholbach, heres my idea :) https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+bug/31775 ill make a wiki for it as soon as i figure out wiki.ubuntu :/
[01:12] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31775 in Ubuntu "Ubuntu should have better links to support options" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  
[01:12] <Toma-> errr woops
[01:13] <freeflying> pitti: each cjk language packge shall provide a scim module
[01:13] <Toma-> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/tomhaste
[01:13] <jono_> dholbach, sent. :)
[01:14] <Toma-> bbl.
[01:14] <dholbach> Toma-: cool
[01:14] <pitti_laptop> freeflying: ok, I'll add it to all support pacakges with a scim module then, alright?
[01:14] <Toma-> sound like a feasible idea?
[01:20] <freeflying> pitti_laptop: ya, language package depend on im-switch 
[01:20] <freeflying> pitti_laptop: I'll add a postinst to each scim module package to add the IM varianle 
[01:21] <pitti_laptop> freeflying: hm, shouldn't that belong to im-switch rather?
[01:21] <freeflying> then other language user will not have scim start
[01:21] <pitti_laptop> freeflying: i. e. isn't im-switch the part that looks at your locale and figures out which module you want?
[01:21] <Kamion> Toma-'s spec is automated-problem-reports in disguise; sadly I don't have permissions to mark it as such
[01:26] <freeflying> pitti_laptop: let the scim module register to im-switch , and if user wanna use another input method , it will be easier 
[01:27] <pitti_laptop> Kinnison: g-p-m doesn't offer me suspend although pmi capabilities has suspend
[01:27] <pitti_laptop> Kinnison: instead it offers me hibernate, which pmi doesn't claim to support
[01:28] <pitti_laptop> Kinnison: want a bug report? or already known?
[01:28] <Kinnison> try enabling suspend in g-p-p
[01:28] <pitti_laptop> I did
[01:29] <pitti_laptop> that also seemed to have worked
[01:29] <pitti_laptop> but it's still confusing, given that suspend is the only thing that works on ppc (hibernate doesn't)
[01:29] <Kinnison> hmm
[01:30] <Kinnison> I'm half tempted to disable everything by default
[01:30] <pitti_laptop> Kinnison: oh, g-p-m cannot even ask pmi capabilities, right? It would need root for that
[01:31] <pitti_laptop> so the false enabling of hibernate is a hal bug and thus for me
[01:31] <pitti_laptop> but
[01:31] <pitti_laptop>   power_management.can_suspend_to_ram = true  (bool)
[01:32] <freeflying> pitti_laptop: how about that ? 
[01:32] <pitti_laptop> freeflying: about what?
[01:32] <freeflying> pitti_laptop: let the scim module register to im-switch , and if user wanna use another input method , it will be easier 
[01:32] <Kinnison> pitti_laptop: when you enable it in g-p-p it should show up in g-p-m
[01:32] <freeflying> pitti_laptop: if user choose other input method , they just need register to im-switch 
[01:33] <pitti_laptop> Kinnison: right, that works
[01:33] <pitti_laptop> Kinnison: so, this is specifically intended to work like that?
[01:33] <Kinnison> pitti_laptop: yes
[01:33] <Kinnison> pitti_laptop: so hal needs to not claim hibernate support if you want g-p-m not to offer it
[01:33] <pitti_laptop> Kinnison: ah, I see; sorry then
[01:33] <pitti_laptop> yep, will fix that
[01:34] <Kinnison> cool
[01:34] <mjg59> Uh.
[01:34] <mjg59> No.
[01:34] <Kinnison> mjg59: ?
[01:34] <mjg59> Hal is supposed to claim hibernate if there's kernel support for it, regardless of whether or not it'll work
[01:34] <Kinnison> pitti_laptop: always listen to mjg59 for policy, he's da man
[01:34] <pitti_laptop> ok
[01:35] <pitti_laptop> well, the user will figure out fast enough if hibernate doesn't work, and can change it to suspend
[01:35] <mjg59> pitti_laptop: When you say "hibernate doesn't work on ppc", you mean "hibernate doesn't work on my ppc", right?
[01:36] <pitti_laptop> mjg59: I heard about other ppcs where it doesn't, but I'd be fine with leaving it enabled by default
[01:36] <pitti_laptop> so, I can't claim that there aren't any ppcs out there where it works
[01:36] <mjg59> pitti_laptop: Can we attempt to fix the actual bug rather than just disabling hibernate?
[01:37] <pitti_laptop> mjg59: preferably :)
[01:37] <pitti_laptop> it works as soon as I unload half a dozen modules and stop X
[01:37] <pitti_laptop> (moudles for oops, X for display blackness)
[01:38] <pitti_laptop> unfortunately I could not pinpoint a particular module
[01:40] <sladen> *blink*  python-psyco is not in the default seed of python stuff...
[01:42] <sladen> and *jeez* does that make a difference to execution time
[01:51] <koke> mvo: I have a little patch for g-a-i
[01:51] <koke> http://people.warp.es/~koke/bzr/gai--koke/
[01:55] <mvo> koke: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9594
[01:55] <mvo> koke: thanks
[01:59] <sivang> mvo: what about that UI sprint you metnioned yesterday, when / where is it going to take place?
[02:04] <sladen> sivang: London, next week
[02:10] <mvo> koke: any idea about the error?
[02:10] <mvo> sivang: what sladen said
[02:12] <mdeboer> hi.
[02:14] <mdeboer> i am trying to build a custom dapper kernel (with ingo molnars rt-preempt patch), using make-kpkg. but at the end, it bails out complaining that "kernel-headers-[....]   is not in control info". any idea?
[02:14] <mdeboer> i've done this before, but did not get this error...
[02:16] <Chipzz> mdeboer: you should be able to work around that at least by just doing make-kpkg kernel_image modules_image
[02:16] <Chipzz> (I think :P)
[02:17] <mdeboer> Chipzz: that's what i do
[02:17] <sivang> mvo: ah nice. Shame I'm on in EU as well... :-/
[02:17] <sivang> s/on/not/
[02:17] <Chipzz> hrrrm, worked last time I checked I think
[02:17] <mdeboer> yes, that's what i thought...
[02:18] <Chipzz> mdeboer: but I don't think you should be getting an error about kernel-headers when that package is not on the list you specify to make-kpkg, as is the case with "make-kpkg kernel_image modules_image"
[02:37] <Kinnison> pitti: ping?
[02:37] <pitti> Hi Kinnison 
[02:38] <Kinnison> bloody translations
[02:38] <Kinnison> dpkg-source is ranting about unrepresentable changes
[02:38] <Kinnison> because something has altered a gmo file
[02:38] <Kinnison> any idea how to fix?
[02:39] <seb128> don't alter the .gmo? :)
[02:39] <seb128> changing the .po is usually enough
[02:39] <seb128> the .gmo are updated during the build
[02:39] <Kinnison> seb128: right, so the fact that I did a build in this tree has fucked it?
[02:39] <mvo> Kinnison: probably, yes
[02:39] <seb128> might be
[02:40] <Kinnison> arsepint
[02:40] <mvo> you could just remove them 
[02:40] <seb128> if a .po has changed since the .gmo have been generated or if the source code has changed
[02:40] <Kinnison> mvo: good point
[02:40] <Keybuk> pitti: do you have a handy bit of shell to do your kick nm into refreshing devices thing?
[02:41] <pitti> Kinnison: just rm po/*.gmo in debian/rules clean
[02:41] <pitti> Keybuk: no, I don't
[02:41] <Keybuk> bah
[02:41] <pitti> Keybuk: 'refresh'?
[02:41] <Keybuk> the thing you wrote for linux-wlan-ng, to say "this device has changed, look at it again"
[02:41] <pitti> Keybuk: aaah, I see; yes, that's a dbus-send invocation, lemme look
[02:43] <zakame> evening devs
[02:43] <pitti> Keybuk: dbus-send --system /org/gnome/NetworkManager org.gnome.NetworkManager.RefreshDevice string:wlan0
[02:43] <pitti> Keybuk: (or whatever device you want to refresh)
[02:44] <Keybuk> how did you get the org.gnome.NetworkManager thing?
[02:44] <pitti> Keybuk: that's the name I defined in the n-m patch
[02:44] <pitti> or, rather, this was already defined
[02:44] <pitti> I just defined the new function RefreshDevice(string)
[02:44] <Keybuk> oh right
[02:45] <Keybuk> am trying to work out how to do a "getDevices" call and get the results
[02:46] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, it seems it's just my patch that defines this namespace
[02:46] <pitti> Keybuk: i. e. I added a dbus signal handler that watches out for org.gnome.NetworkManager signals
[02:47] <Keybuk> ok, but in nm-dbus-nm.c there's oodles of events defined
[02:47] <Keybuk> methods
[02:49] <tepsipakki> how does the server-install know to get the correct kernel (linux-image-server) ? or does it?
[02:50] <Treenaks> mjg59: any news on the wacom-tools4?
[02:51] <theine>  Hi, will the newest stable version of the ipw2100 driver (1.2.0) make it into Dapper's kernel?
[02:51] <mjg59> Treenaks: Other than that it's a complete arse to build, no
[02:52] <mjg59> theine: What bugs does it fix?
[02:52] <pitti> Keybuk: so, shall I use a different namespace?
[02:53] <theine> mjg59, 1) Fix debug option cannot enable problem, 2) Add support for WEXT-18 enc_capa v3
[02:53] <Keybuk> pitti: ah, ok, I see confusion.  you used org.gnome.NetworkManager they use org.freedesktop.NetworkManager ;)
[02:53] <Treenaks> theine: I think the 2200 version of this patch has already been applied, as I got a 'fix commited' message for that (WEXT-18)
[02:53] <pitti> Keybuk: oops, my fault; sorry for that
[02:54] <pitti> Keybuk: someone blew an embargo, so I need to switch to security fix mode now and postpone n-m debugging
[02:54] <mjg59> theine: Please file a wishlist bug against the kernel
[02:54] <theine> also, 1.2.0 is marked stable by the ipw2100 devs (as opposed to 1.1.4 which is in Dapper's kernel right now)
[02:54] <pitti> Keybuk: but if you want, I can change the name along with the l-wlan-ng fixes
[02:54] <theine> mjg59, alright, i'll do that
[02:55] <freeflying> pitti: I'm waiting for your decision  :)
[02:55] <Keybuk> whenever's convenient I guess
[02:55] <Keybuk> hmm,  (dbus-monitor too dumb to decipher arg type 'o')
[02:55] <Keybuk> I hate dbus
[02:56] <pitti> freeflying: oh, I wasn't aware of you waiting
[02:56] <freeflying> pitti: hehe
[02:56] <pitti> freeflying: I'm not sure whether the input modules should add variables to the X session
[02:57] <pitti> freeflying: rather, im-switch should look at the locale and select a scim module, or not?
[02:57] <freeflying> pitti: now we let im-switch do that for us 
[02:57] <pitti> freeflying: ritght, that's what I though
[02:57] <pitti> t
[02:57] <freeflying> pitti: and let scim's module register to im-switch
[02:58] <freeflying> pitti: so I'd add them in postinst to scim module's package
[02:58] <pitti> sounds good
[02:59] <freeflying> need we comunicate that with scim module package's maintainer 
[03:03] <pitti> freeflying: not in Ubuntu at least, but if it makes sense, it would be nice to cooperate with Debian
[03:03] <pitti> freeflying: so that Debian benefits from it as well, and we don't need to carry the patch forever
[03:04] <freeflying> pitti: ya, and upload to REVU?
[03:06] <pitti> freeflying: I'm not experienced with Revu, but that should be fine
[03:06] <freeflying> pitti: ok
[03:11] <zakame> hi mgalvin giftnudel sabdfl
[03:12] <mgalvin> hi zakame
[03:12] <Pygi> matt, have you read the lists? some people want revival of the -instant project...
[03:13] <sabdfl> hey zakame
[03:14] <mgalvin> Pygi: i follow it a bit but have been to busy to read them all... which thread(s) are you referring to?
[03:14] <Pygi> mgalvin: huh, I would have to find it....sec please
[03:15] <Pygi> matt: roadmap for ubuntu server
[03:21] <mgalvin> Pygi: link? if you have it?
[03:27] <ogra> dholbach, ping ... whats up with python-gnome on powerpc ? 
[03:29] <seb128> ogra: you want to get the reply from dholbach only? :)
[03:29] <ogra> seb128, nope 
[03:30] <ogra> i dont care who replies as long as the info contained is right :)
[03:30] <ogra> but it seems the last upload made all ppc CDs explode 
[03:30] <Kamion> it's uninstallable, see http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/dapper_probs.html
[03:30] <seb128> hum?
[03:30] <ogra> so something is wrong
[03:30] <Kamion> it's not gnome-python at fault though, e.g. gnome-session's uninstallable too
[03:31] <seb128> looks like the gnome-vfs2 issue
[03:31] <ogra> due to a dependency on gnome-python ?
[03:31] <Kamion> I'm not sure picking a random package of the 100+ uninstallable and blaming it is entirely useful
[03:31] <ogra> heh true 
[03:32] <ogra> but thats what my chroot gives me ...
      the libgnome-vfs2-common changed from arch: any
[03:32] <seb128> to arch: all
      if the chroots are not updated
      some -dev are not installable
      that's why you see these DepWait
[03:32] <seb128> that might be that issue
[03:33] <Kamion> I think infinity might *just* have gone to bed ...
[03:33] <doko> Kamion: please promote libxmlsec1 libxmlsec1-nss libxmlsec1-openssl linxmlsec-dev, reviewed by pitti, needed by OOo in NEW
[03:33] <ogra> my chroot says libgnomeui-common (= 2.13.3-0ubuntu1) doesnt exist ... if it build depends on -vfs that might be right
[03:34] <seb128> it does depends on it
[03:34] <ogra> ah, k
[03:34] <ogra> (got no sources in my chroot sources.list to check)
[03:34] <Kamion> doko: not libxmlsec1-gnutls?
[03:34] <Kamion> or the xmlsec1 binary itself?
[03:35] <Kamion> doko: rest promoted
[03:37] <zakame> HUH?
[03:38] <doko> Kamion: don't know yet, if OOo needs them ;-) but maybe we should promote all binaries
[03:38] <sladen> elmo: us.archive.com is out of step
[03:39] <sladen> elmo: Release vs. Release.gpg so the archive is useless for users
[03:40] <ogra> sladen, longstanding problem 
[03:40] <sladen> elmo: wget http://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/ubuntu/dists/dapper/Release{,.gpg}
[03:40] <Pygi> Lathiat: known bug in dapper...worry do not :) 
[03:40] <Lathiat> Pygi: ok :)
[03:40] <ogra> sladen, us.u.c is on and off since ages ...
[03:40] <sladen> ogra: why on earth is it still in the rotation
[03:40] <Pygi> Lathiat: if you can find out which package in installer causes that, I'll be glad to fix it :)
[03:40] <Kamion> doko: ok, I've promoted the rest for now, although be aware that they'll drop back to universe if the new openoffice.org doesn't make dapper
[03:40] <ogra> sladen, dunno why its in *again* it was dropped several times afaik
[03:40] <Kamion> Pygi: partman-target is a good place to start
[03:41] <Pygi> Kamion: thanks, I'll look into the matter...
[03:44] <ogra> Kinnison, wow, thats a impressive changelog 
[03:44] <Kinnison> ogra: it has taken me two days to do
[03:45] <ogra> looks rather like the work from a week or two :)
[03:45] <ogra> (in fact it looks like youv'e nearly rewritten g-p-m :) )
[03:46] <Kinnison> hell no, richard did a hell of a lot
[03:46] <Lathiat> haha
[03:46] <Kinnison> I was just integrating and fiddling
[03:46] <ogra> heh :)
[03:53] <elmo> SEGFWG#$HG"
[03:53] <elmo> gnome-screensaver is locking the screen WHILE I'M TYPING
[03:53] <Treenaks> elmo: kick the ogra !
[03:53] <koke> mvo: the error 500 seems to be realted to mod_security on that server, trying to fix it...
[03:55] <Diziet> AAARGH DBS HATE HATE HATE
[03:55] <ogra> elmo, since when do you use gnome-screensaver ? i added several patches to adjust the defaults months ago
[03:56] <ogra> if you used it before there might be wrong defaults in your gconf setup ...
[03:57] <sivang> mvo: do you have any idea how to overcome this:
[03:57] <sivang> mvo: Traceback (most recent call last):
[03:57] <sivang>   File "./upbackup.py", line 294, in on_button7_clicked
[03:57] <sivang>     gobject.idle_add(self.pushGUIBackup().next())
[03:57] <sivang> TypeError: first argument not callable
[03:57] <sivang> it works for the first iteration I think
[03:58] <elmo> ogra: I just upgraded to dapper yesterday - don't think this particular machine ever had gnome-screensaver installed before
[03:58] <elmo> it wasn't doing this last night too, it's only after a hibernate, AFAICT
[03:58] <Diziet> Just discovered the most amazing bug in tcpd.  If you ssh into a machine and your ident lookup is dropped by a firewall (rather than being rejected) and times out, you end up with a session with SIGALRM blocked.
[03:58] <ogra> elmo, thanks, i'll investigate where my change disappeared 
[03:58] <ogra> oh
[03:58] <Kinnison> might be a gnome-screensaver bug
[03:58] <Kinnison> might be a gnome-power-manager bug
[03:58] <ogra> that sounds rather like something for Kinnison 
[03:59] <Kinnison> elmo: try killing and restarting gnome-power-manager
[03:59] <seb128> my bet is that something has been upgraded and running server and client are not in sync
[03:59] <elmo> seb128: I haven't upgraded since last reboot
[03:59] <elmo> I'll try what kinnison said
[03:59] <Kinnison> elmo: if it continues to happen (without a new suspend) then it's a g-ss bug, otherwise it's a g-p-m bug and you should upgrade once 2.13.92-0ubuntu1 has compiled#
[03:59] <seb128> so wrong bet, is a bog somewhere
[04:00] <Mithrandir> ogra: gnome-screensaver occasionally seems to stop detecting activity.  Do you have any idea what it might be?
[04:00] <ogra> Mithrandir, havent seen that yet 
[04:01] <jono> hia ll
[04:01] <jono> hi all
[04:02] <ogra> Mithrandir, there was a bug with the dpms settings being set to 2minutes or something for all gconf keys (the bug i mentioned to elmo) can you check with gconf-editor thats not the case for you ? 
[04:02] <Mithrandir> jono, now with echo. :-)
[04:02] <jono> another quick q - do we know if the dapper CDs will still include The Open CD?
[04:02] <jono> Mithrandir, heh
[04:02] <Mithrandir> ogra: it goes away if I kill and restart gnome-screensaver.
[04:02] <Mithrandir> ogra: and it seems related to suspend and resume.
[04:02] <ogra> hmm...
[04:02] <elmo> GRR
[04:03] <Mithrandir> ogra: xset says dpms is enabled, but the timeouts are 0.
[04:03] <ogra> Kinnison, how do you call g-s-s ? via g-s-s-command ? 
[04:03] <elmo> it's still happening after cycling g-p-m
[04:03] <elmo> which I guess makes it a g-s-s bug
[04:03] <jono> sabdfl, do you plan on having the open cd on the dapper release cds?
[04:03] <Kinnison> ogra: no, I use the dbus methods
[04:03] <ogra> Mithrandir, i'm only intrested in gconf :)
[04:03] <sabdfl> jono: space will be very tight
[04:03] <Mithrandir> ogra: why on _earth_ are dpms setting duplicated in gconf?
[04:04] <ogra> Mithrandir, to be accessible from g-p-m 
[04:04] <jono> sabdfl, thats what I figured, is it a case of suck it and see closer to the time?
[04:04] <doko> pitti: language pack ping
[04:04] <sabdfl> jono: yes, i'm afraid
[04:04] <pitti> doko: pong
[04:04] <jono> sabdfl, no worries! :)
[04:04] <pitti> doko: what's up?
[04:04] <jono> cheers
[04:05] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: also, any idea where my g-p-m icon has gone? :-P
[04:05] <ogra> Mithrandir, new default :) check the preferences
[04:05] <ploum> hmmm... abiword files are previewed as txt files. Bug in some MIME type. Against wich package must I report the bug ?
[04:05] <Mithrandir> ogra: "always display icon" is set in my prefs.
[04:05] <doko> pitti: ronne:~doko/ooo/2.0.2/l10ntst: these are the new OOo related packages, which will enter the archive soon, please could you prepare an lang update?
[04:06] <Mithrandir> it returned when I twiddled that setting.
[04:06] <ogra> Mithrandir, oh
[04:06] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: ^^
[04:06] <ogra> Mithrandir, then i think g-p-m crashed for you 
[04:06] <Mithrandir> 14476 ?        Ss     0:09 /usr/bin/gnome-power-manager
[04:06] <ogra> it gets started by the prefs window
[04:06] <Mithrandir> same pid as before I opened the prefs.
[04:06] <Mithrandir> also, there's no way to suspend from the menu any more.
[04:06] <ogra> hmm, intresting
[04:07] <ogra> heh, for me hibernate is gone ... didnt recognize that until now
[04:07] <Mithrandir> well, there's no hibernate option either.
[04:08] <torkel> Mithrandir: a reboot fixed the same thing for me so I suspected dbus or hal...
[04:08] <ogra> missing a reboot ?
[04:08] <ogra> yes, hall should handle suspend/hibernate capabilitys now
[04:08] <Mithrandir> ogra: no, not missing a reboot.  Nothing telling me a reboot of any kind is required and there shouldn't be any needed given that I haven't upgraded my kernel.
[04:08] <pitti> doko: permission denied, the dir is 700
[04:09] <pitti> doko: what do you mean with a 'lang update'?
[04:09] <ogra> Mithrandir, upgrading dbus, hal, g-p-m, udev etc all require reboots nowadays
[04:09] <Mithrandir> torkel: that is so not the right way to fix the problem.
[04:10] <Mithrandir> ogra: uh?  say again?
[04:10] <Diziet> Applying patch debian/patches/./siglongjmp~ failed!
[04:10] <ogra> Mithrandir, all apps using dbus ... 
[04:10] <Diziet> HATE HATE HATE
[04:11] <torkel> Mithrandir: I know, and I agree
[04:11] <ogra> Mithrandir, plus udev 
[04:11] <ogra> Mithrandir, dont you get the little violet reboot sign Keybuk wrote if you upgrade any dbus related app ?
[04:12] <Mithrandir> ogra: no idea.
[04:12] <Mithrandir> haven't seen it on the laptop.
[04:12] <Mithrandir> and that's so broken it's not funny.
[04:12] <doko> pitti: fixed, dependencies of the language packs
[04:13] <ogra> Mithrandir, normally you get a notification, look if your notification daemon is running at all ...
[04:13] <Mithrandir>  5172 ?        S      0:19 /usr/lib/notification-daemon/notification-daemon
[04:13] <ogra> strange 
[04:13] <Mithrandir> and I have a notification-area-applet
[04:13] <pitti> doko: I still don't understand, sorry; you mean that OO.o's locale packages have some dependencies now?
[04:13] <ogra> dunno then, ask Keybuk 
[04:14] <pitti> doko: or that I should update the language-support packages to depend on new OO.o language debs now?
[04:14] <doko> pitti: sure, the latter
[04:14] <pitti> doko: ah; yep, will do it as soon as they are in the archive (to maintain installability)
[04:16] <Keybuk> ogra: you meant update-notifier
[04:16] <Keybuk> and he didn't have that running
[04:17] <ogra> ah
[04:17] <ogra> i didnt know which piece exactly ...
[04:17] <Keybuk> why doesn't dbus just get restarted after it's upgraded?
[04:17] <ogra> Keybuk, upstream decided it will need a reboot there was even a spec at ubz ...
[04:18] <Mithrandir> ogra: that's _broken_
[04:18] <Keybuk> but this means if you don't upgrade, gnome-screensaver will end up locking your screen, and then be unable to start its own unlock dialog
[04:18] <Keybuk> no?
[04:18] <ogra> but that was on daniels list and got dropped afaik
[04:18] <Mithrandir> ogra: it would be ok if we were shipping windows.  But we aren't.  So it's not.
[04:18] <ogra> Mithrandir, that is how it currently is 
[04:18] <ogra> i dont say i like it
[04:19] <ogra> Keybuk, no, but thats because the apps all use gnome-screensaver-command yet ... apart from g-p-m which uses dbus ... 
[04:20] <ogra> Keybuk, so you have a prob if you upgrade g-p-m but dont reboot ... or vice versa for g-s-s
[04:20] <Mithrandir> ogra: except when they don't.  I've had that happen on occasion when upgrading, then suspending, then resuming.
[04:20] <ogra> Mithrandir, normally the popup window tells you to reboot as soon as you can 
[04:21] <ogra> (from the packages postinst)
[04:21] <Mithrandir> except there's no popup.
[04:21] <ogra> yes, but then your session is broken ...
[04:21] <Mithrandir> no, it's not.
[04:22] <Mithrandir> if gss requires update-notifier to be running, it should make sure it is.
[04:22] <ogra> phew, but that applies to all the apps using dbus then
[04:23] <Mithrandir> except that not having g-p-m doesn't break your system.
[04:23] <Mithrandir> not being able to unlock your screen does.
[04:25] <ogra> but that must not be caused by a g-s-s upgrade ...
[04:25] <ogra> it can as well be only a dbus upgrade 
[04:25] <Mithrandir> doesn't matter.  Is still a g-s-s bug.
[04:25] <ogra> nope, its a conceptional bug 
[04:25] <Mithrandir> if gnome-screensaver locks my screen and then fails to unlock it, that's a gss bug.
[04:26] <ogra> if you dont regard the warning the app sends (reboot notification) you cant blame the app 
[04:26] <Mithrandir> I didn't get any notification. :-)
[04:26] <mjg59> ogra: No, anything that leaves a system in an unusable state after upgrade is unacceptable
[04:26] <ogra> yes, thats a conceptional bug
[04:27] <ogra> mjg59, what i mean is that we have a bug in the process if we cant guarantee that the notifier is running for *any* dbus driven app
[04:27] <mjg59> ogra: If an upgrade renders an application unusable without rebooting, then we have a far bigger problem
[04:28] <Mithrandir> ogra: notifications are not an excuse for actually fixing the problem.
[04:28] <ogra> mjg59, then we have it ... it renders several apps unusable that rely on dbus 
[04:28] <Mithrandir> "you need to reboot because I don't know how to reexec myself" is really, really silly.
[04:28] <Keybuk> ogra: you can't just say "reboot required" and then leave the user in a bad state
[04:28] <mjg59> ogra: Yes. So we need to figure out how to fix this, not figure out how to tell people to reboot.
[04:28] <Kamion> ogra: ("conceptual")
[04:28] <ogra> Kamion, thanks :)
[04:29] <ogra> mjg59, exactly ... but that requires the whole process to be touched, not only one app ...
[04:29] <mjg59> ogra: Yes
[04:30] <Mithrandir> ogra: except that there's one app which intentionally blocks access to the screen.  The others that break don't.  They don't break the system.
[04:30] <mjg59> But the bug is not "update-notifier is not running"
[04:30] <Mithrandir> ogra: so while it might be a bug in g-p-m too, it's a far, far more severe bug in gss
[04:31] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/dbus-restarts
[04:33] <koke> mvo: try to merge gai again
[04:33] <koke> it should be fixed
[04:34] <Mithrandir> ogra: yes, there's a spec which has never gotten off the ground.
[04:34] <mjg59> The screensaver is something that must never be broken
[04:34] <mjg59> People depend on it for security
[04:34] <sivang> omg , my 2 layered generator methods with a spawned process underneath (dar) works as a charm in reporting progress up to the gui...end of first ver of HUB is appraoching , yay
[04:34] <Keybuk> aye, gss can't just quit and wait for a reboot because it means people's computers are UNLOCKED
[04:35] <Keybuk> and it can't just wait for a reboot and happily lock the screen with no chance of unlock either
[04:35] <mjg59> If it's going to fail, it's better for it to fail locked (but that's not acceptable either)
[04:35] <mvo> koke: thanks, merged
[04:35] <koke> great
[04:36] <Keybuk> random thought ... how does update-notifier get that notification popup to come up?
[04:36] <Mithrandir> it uses notification-daemon, I presume.
[04:36] <ogra> Keybuk, didnt you write it ? 
[04:36] <Keybuk> right, which uses what IPC protocol? :p
[04:36] <Mithrandir> iz gnome, so dbus? :-P
[04:36] <ogra> heh, yes :)
[04:36] <Keybuk> so ...
[04:36] <Keybuk> if you've just killed dbus by upgrading it
[04:36] <ogra> the concept is broken :)
[04:37] <Keybuk> how do you expect update-notifier to popup the "you need to restart now" popup?
[04:37] <ogra> lets not restart dbus at all
[04:37] <Keybuk> this explains why I've never seen that popup work recently
[04:37] <ogra> i see it once a day here 
[04:38] <Keybuk> Malone needs an OH MY FUCKING GOD! severity ;)
[04:38] <Mithrandir> one thing is having to reboot when dbus itself is upgraded, but why would you have to reboot when you upgrade an app?
[04:38] <Mithrandir> that looks so much like an app problem and doesn't have anything to do with dbus itself.
[04:39] <Keybuk> why does dbus get restarted?
[04:40] <ogra> the prob is to start the frontend part again ... it only runs in the users session with user permissions, dpkg doesnt know about which user is using a frontend
[04:40] <ogra> it can only restart the system backend
[04:40] <Keybuk> I assume it's something to do with newly upgraded apps using a newer dbus protocol than the running daemon?
[04:40] <Keybuk> if it restarts the system backend, wouldn'
[04:40] <ogra> Keybuk, yup
[04:40] <Keybuk> t all frontends need to be restarted?
[04:40] <ogra> yup
[04:41] <ogra> and thats the prob Mithrandir has with g-s-s 
[04:41] <Keybuk> so couldn't we do that?  restart the system daemon, and all the session daemons
[04:41] <Keybuk> and then the apps can just reconnect
[04:41] <Keybuk> after all, they don't drop support for older dbus protocols
[04:41] <ogra> but that reqiores knowledge of every session
[04:41] <Keybuk> that's easy
[04:41] <Keybuk> ps aux | grep dbus ;)
[04:41] <ogra> nope
[04:42] <Keybuk> are you saying the system bus doesn't know the list of sessions connected to it?
[04:42] <ogra> you also need: ps aux |grep g-p-m
[04:42] <ogra> g-s-s 
[04:42] <ogra> hal
[04:42] <Keybuk> why?  those things will notice their session bus going away
[04:42] <Keybuk> and can reconnect
[04:42] <ogra> will they ? 
[04:42] <Keybuk> "oh, my socket closed"
[04:42] <ogra> i know g-p-m has such a function in CVS, dunno if Kinnison added it yet
[04:42] <Keybuk> hell, if you shut down the system bus, surely the session daemons will get their sockets closed
[04:42] <torkel> so there need to be a restart dbus event that all daemons (and apps) should listen to and restart upon
[04:42] <Keybuk> so they could reexec themselves
[04:43] <ogra> torkel, thats normally covered by /etc/dbus-1/event.d/
[04:43] <ogra> but still 
[04:43] <ogra> you need to execute the frontends 
[04:43] <ogra> with user permissions ...
[04:44] <Mithrandir> no, you don't.
[04:44] <Mithrandir> kill -USR1 $pid
[04:44] <Mithrandir> and have them trap that
[04:44] <ogra> unless they can do  it themselves
[04:44] <Mithrandir> trivial
[04:45] <torkel> yeah, but if the apps are listen to the "restart" event they should be able to restart, shouldn't they?
[04:45] <ogra> yes
[04:45] <ogra> but no app does a kill -USR1 $pid yet, we'll need to add that 
[04:46] <ogra> i'll do some testing with g-s-s 
[04:46] <ogra> Mithrandir, can you file a bug with an exact description so i can reproduce it for tests ?
[04:47] <ogra> i'm pretty sure g-s-s will unlick if i send kill -USR...
[04:47] <ogra> *unlock
[04:48] <torkel> ogra: it does
[04:48] <ogra> yup, suspected that 
[04:48] <torkel> and it dies :-(
[04:50] <sivang> mvo: ping, around?
[04:50] <ogra> dholbach, has ekiga screensaver handling code ? (i.e. did it (or gnomeeting) prevent locking with xscreensaver) ?
[04:52] <dholbach> ogra: it has dbus code which doesn't built
[04:52] <dholbach> ogra: build
[04:52] <dholbach> ogra: I'll try with the next release again
[04:52] <dholbach> ogra: (maybe in two weeks)
[04:52] <ogra> dholbach, do you know if it had xss code as well ? 
[04:52] <dholbach> ogra: no idea, sorry.
[04:52] <ogra> ok
[04:53] <ogra> just trying to determine all apps that handled xss to get all gss regressions done ...
[04:53] <dholbach> Nice. :)
[04:54] <ogra> (since Mithrandir wants such weird things like no screen locking if a call is in progress ;) )
[05:01] <sabdfl> elmo: are you still seeing the "Killed by signal 1." problem with rsync / ssh / sftp? i just started getting that
[05:02] <Kamion> sabdfl: I fixed that in Debian's openssh a week or two ago; will port the change to dapper
[05:02] <sabdfl> Kamion: thanks muchly
[05:03] <Kamion> I'd meant to do that but forgot
[05:11] <sabdfl> stub: am playing with pg8.1
[05:11] <jsgotangco> hey sabdfl nice to see you back online again
[05:12] <sabdfl> jsgotangco: *great* to be home
[05:12] <sabdfl> glad we met up, thanks for your help btw
[05:12] <jsgotangco> aye must be tough
[05:12] <jsgotangco> cheers
[05:12] <desrt> sabdfl; 'sup
[05:12] <sabdfl> desrt: specs, dude, specs
[05:12] <desrt> sabdfl; about the logout dialog....
[05:12] <sabdfl> am working on the spec system
[05:12] <desrt> ah.  more than just a wiki?
[05:14] <desrt> sabdfl; the new logout dialog is quite bad and a lot of people do not like it
[05:15] <HiddenWolf> specifically, it offers less functionality, uses colors and layout unique to the dialogue, and feels bulkier than the gnome default dialogue. 
[05:15] <HiddenWolf> desrt: that about it?
[05:15] <pitti> ... and doesn't allow you to save your session
[05:15] <desrt> HiddenWolf; it also violates the HIG in ways that are bound to suprise and confuse the user
[05:16] <pitti> ogra: not any more
[05:16] <HiddenWolf> ogra: amen
[05:16] <ogra> pitti, ?
[05:16] <seb128> pitti: upstream doesn't allow that neither
[05:16] <desrt> seb128; freenode is preventing me from replying to your /msg
[05:16] <seb128> upstream one
[05:16] <pitti> ogra: you mean the separate 'log out'/'shut down'?
[05:16] <ogra> pitti, oohh
[05:16] <seb128> desrt: reply on gimpnet :)
[05:16] <desrt> ogra; ya.  the split approach is really nice
[05:16] <pitti> ogra: that's gone
[05:16] <ogra> pitti, i just discovered its gone :(
[05:17] <desrt> seb128; good idea :)
[05:17] <seb128> HiddenWolf: less functionality is not true, and colors ... icon should be changed
[05:17] <desrt> pfah.  it's not about the icons.
[05:17] <desrt> they're ugly as sin but that's a superficial problem
[05:17] <seb128> desrt: just replying on some non accurate points listed
[05:17] <pitti> seb128: no 'save session' check box any more is certainly less functionality than in breezy?
[05:17] <giftnudel> desrt: you need to register to be able to send privmsgs
[05:18] <desrt> giftnudel; i refuse to register
[05:18] <desrt> giftnudel; i'm anti-freenode
[05:18] <seb128> pitti: right, but the 2 dialogs from upstream we had from the system menu for some time have the same issue
[05:18] <giftnudel> desrt: ;)
[05:18] <pitti> seb128: ah, you mean *those*. right
[05:18] <seb128> pitti: the chose is either "those" or the new one
[05:18] <seb128> nobody is willing to go back with the old one
[05:18] <ogra> seb128, what about a merge of these two approaches ?
[05:18] <pitti> seb128: what's upstream's idea of session saving hten?
[05:18] <seb128> pitti: "those"
[05:19] <seb128> ah
[05:19] <seb128> that
[05:19] <seb128> that nobody uses it :)
[05:19] <desrt> ya.  sessions are evil :p
[05:19] <ogra> having two menu items and two dialogs abut with the icon approach the 6-icon-dialog has
[05:19] <ogra> so one with three icons (restart, shut down, suspend)
[05:19] <ogra> and one with the user actions 
[05:20] <giftnudel> I still find "logout"  a funny place to look for user switching ... since you don't actually logout
[05:20] <ogra> so you have a 3 item and a 2 item dialog instead of a 6 item dialog ...
[05:21] <ogra> it will look less cluttered 
[05:21] <tepsipakki> "switch user" to the menu, and a "save session" checkbox to the logout-confirmation dialog
[05:22] <ogra> but still, the six icon dialog looks not good yet ...
[05:22] <ogra> it needs reduction 
[05:22] <giftnudel> I don't think suspend should be in therer
[05:22] <seb128> ogra: 7 icons actually now
[05:22] <ogra> *shudder*
[05:23] <giftnudel> since it's actually only temporarily
[05:23] <ogra> i only have 6 and a cancel button 
[05:23] <Pygi> ogra: same here
[05:23] <ogra> seb128, so we add both suspend actions now ? 
[05:24] <ogra> gnome-session should look up whats selected in g-p-m as suspend action 
[05:25] <mjg59> ?
[05:25] <mjg59> Ah, yes
[05:25] <Kinnison> Umm, everything else ought to send the dbus signal to g-p-m
[05:25] <Kinnison> really
[05:25] <mjg59> Yeah, we shouldn't be suspending via gdm now
[05:25] <ogra> Kinnison, its just about which icons are shown on logout
[05:25] <Kinnison> aah
[05:25] <ogra> and g-p-m already forces you to select one as default
[05:26] <Kinnison> ogra: how do you mean?
[05:26] <ogra> so we should pick the one thats selected there and only display this one in the logout dialog
[05:26] <pitti> ogra: hm? g-p-m allows both for me
[05:26] <giftnudel> I would only put suspend to disk in the logout dialog and let suspend to ram be handled by g-p-m
[05:26] <ogra> i.e. if i select suspend in g-p-m, hibernate shouldnt show up
[05:26] <mjg59> ogra: No, that's no longer the case
[05:26] <Kinnison> ogra: I have a g-p-m build failure on ia64 which looks like broken deps, any clues?
[05:27] <ogra> pitti, look at g-p-m "sleep type if inactive" selects the default action
[05:27] <ogra> Kinnison, looking
[05:27] <pitti> ogra: well, but that doesn't mean that the user shouldn't get both offered; right-click gpm offers it too
[05:28] <ogra> mjg59, according to seb128 there are 7 buttons now, i cant confirm since my lappie has no hibernate
[05:28] <giftnudel> ogra: there are only 6
[05:28] <seb128> http://www.manucornet.net/GNOME/logout_dialog/with-lock.png
[05:28] <seb128> 7
[05:28] <desrt> i count 8
[05:28] <ogra> ARGH
[05:28] <giftnudel> seb128: that one doesn't look good ;(
[05:28] <desrt> well, really i count 1, by any reasonable logic
[05:28] <ogra> desrt, leave the cancel button ... thats obligatory :)
[05:29] <desrt> but someone told me that those other weird entities floating in space are actually buttons too
[05:29] <desrt> so i guess 8
[05:29] <mjg59> As I keep saying, sleep should not be there by default
[05:29] <ogra> seb128, that looks horrible 
[05:29] <seb128> graaa
[05:29] <giftnudel> mjg59: yes, I can only second that
[05:29] <giftnudel> sleep is in g-p-m
[05:29] <mjg59> Because it /doesn't work/
[05:29] <ogra> mjg59, i would say the preferred default action from g-p-m should be shown there
[05:29] <mjg59> (In many cases)
[05:29] <seb128> ogra: I don't take the decisions for that, I'm just implementing, you are complaining to the wrong person
[05:29] <mjg59> ogra: There is no preferred default action for g-p-m
[05:30] <jsgotangco> that's a lot of buttons
[05:30] <desrt> it is
[05:30] <ogra> mjg59, "sleep type if inactive" was formerly called "default suspend action" in g-p-m
[05:31] <mjg59> ogra: Yes. And now it isn't.
[05:31] <ogra> mjg59, did it change functionallity as well ? 
[05:32] <mjg59> ogra: Before it was not clear what that option /was/
[05:34] <desrt> seb128; if you do allow the upstream logout dialogs to be gconf'd back into existence, you should probably also deal with the death clocks
[05:34] <mjg59> The upstream logout dialogs are still available
[05:34] <seb128> no
[05:34] <mjg59> As far as I can tell, at least. It's what I get if I select actions/logout
[05:34] <mjg59> Uh, system/logout
[05:34] <ogra> i really liked the two dialog approach 
[05:35] <ogra> even the dialogs could have been more pretty
[05:36] <ogra> missed upgrade ? 
[05:36] <mjg59> Possibly
[05:36] <ogra> running sparc or ia64 ?
[05:36] <ogra> :)
[05:36] <ogra> or hppa
[05:38] <ogra> Kinnison, that ia64 ftbfs might be the same prob powerpc has today ... seems gnome-vfs had probs on some arches, and libgnomeui has broken deps through this
[05:38] <ogra> Kinnison, just wait until thats fixed and trigger a new build...
[05:38] <Kinnison> ogra: right
[05:45] <Kamion> sabdfl: fixed in openssh 1:4.2p1-7ubuntu1
[05:46] <sabdfl> Kamion: thanks. anything else upstream we can easily pull into dapper?
[05:46] <Kamion> sabdfl: that's a full merge of current Debian unstable
[05:46] <Kamion> sabdfl: there's a new upstream release (4.3p2), but I haven't looked at all at it yet
[05:46] <sabdfl> bonzaiii
[05:47] <sabdfl> Kamion: doubt there's anything dapper-essential in a new upstream
[05:47] <Kamion> my feeling is that it will probably fix three things we care about and break five more in fun and interesting ways, based on previous experience
[05:47] <Kamion> although upstream are getting better about that
[05:49] <Kamion> sabdfl: I tend to agree; http://www.mindrot.org/pipermail/openssh-unix-announce/2006-February/000084.html is the 4.3 announce
[05:49] <Kamion> hmm, I wonder though, they mention one thing ...
[05:49] <Kamion>  * Set SO_REUSEADDR on X11 listeners to avoid problems caused by
[05:49] <Kamion>    lingering sockets from previous session (X11 applications can
[05:49] <Kamion>    sometimes not connect to 127.0.0.1:60xx) (Bugzilla #1076)
[05:49] <Kamion> ogra: I wonder if that's the problem you were having
[05:50] <Kamion> http://bugzilla.mindrot.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1076
[05:51] <wftl> Is there any hope that some kind of simple persistence system (a la Knoppix) will be available for the live CD when Dapper becomes official?
[05:51] <wftl> The persistence document is fine, but it's hardly easy for a newbie.
[05:51] <Kamion> ogra: yeah, looks the same as https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/25528; remind me to backport that
[05:51] <Ubugtu> malone bug 25528 in openssh openssh-server "X11 forwarding via ssh not releasing ports in timely manner with IPv4 and IPv6 enabled" [Normal,Needs info]  
[05:52] <Kamion> wftl: talk to Mithrandir about what you need; he implemented current persistence in about a day, so it should be pretty easy to implement something different
[05:52] <Kamion> or file a bug against casper about it
[05:52] <Kamion> (since Mithrandir's fairly busy this week)
[06:14] <elmo> Mithrandir: remind me if it's possible to have folders in thunderbird setup to use a certain From address?
[06:15] <HiddenWolf> elmo: yes it is
[06:15] <elmo> how?
[06:16] <HiddenWolf> elmo: message filter to make it put email from a person/list in a folder
[06:16] <elmo> eh, no, I'm talking about composing/replying to email
[06:16] <elmo> i.e. when you're in a certain folder, and you reply to the email, it should use a specific From line
[06:16] <HiddenWolf> Oh, sorry, misunderstood.
[06:17] <sladen> elmo: please could you sync hotkey-setup from debian, or let me know what further needs doing first
[06:24] <koke> elmo: I don't think so, but this may help https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?application=thunderbird&category=Miscellaneous&numpg=10&id=1203
[06:25] <elmo> sladen: syncs are queueing, I'll get to them as soon as I can
[06:27] <sladen> elmo: many thanks
[06:39] <ogra> Kamion, yes, that looks suspicious like #25528 :)
[06:40] <ogra> great catch :)
[06:40] <doko> pitti: so which parsers are affected by the recent flex bug fix and must be rebuilt? ;-P
[06:40] <doko> and in which packages ...
[06:40] <pitti> doko: that's what I'm finding out for 2 hours already now
[06:40] <pitti> tedious and long job :/
[06:42] <pitti> doko: thankfully few packages seem to be actually affected by it, but it takes ages to find them
[06:46] <Treenaks> omg, I'm on a  channel with idiots!
[06:46] <Treenaks> People who don't want to reboot *because the reboot icon is so pretty*
[06:46] <Treenaks> pitti: seriously..
[06:46] <pitti> are they afraid of losing it, or what?
[06:46] <slomo_> lol
[06:46] <Treenaks> pitti: yeah
[06:47] <Treenaks> Digital hoarders... *ooh shiny thing*
[06:48] <doko> pitti: yeah, and to make sure, that the lexer actually is rebuilt ...
[06:48] <pitti> doko: once I know the actually vulnerable packages, that'll be easy
[06:48] <pitti> doko: the patch is trivial, and it's even easier with packages which b-dep and use flex
[06:48] <ogra> Treenaks, just put "sudo apt-get install --reinstall udev" into their session ;)
[06:49] <ogra> (probably dpkg-reconfigure is enough :) )
[06:52] <Treenaks> mvo: yeah, but you're cheating
[06:53] <mvo> Treenaks: correct :-D
[07:10] <ploum> our new cheerleader : http://ploum.frimouvy.org/images/cheerleader.png
[07:10] <Treenaks> ROTFL
[07:10] <Treenaks> ploum: though he usually says 'Rock & roll!'
[07:10] <ploum> Treenaks: that's what I tought
[07:10] <ogra> ploum, did you fall in love with gimp recently ? 
[07:11] <LaserJock> yikes, that is scary
[07:11] <ploum> but during FOSDEM, he always said "awesome"
[07:11] <ogra> Treenaks, nah... "GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS"
[07:11] <Treenaks> ploum: Please stop my eyes hurt!
[07:12] <ploum> ogra: not in love. It's just that I can do what I want to do
[07:12] <Burgwork> ploum, I am scared for life
[07:12] <Treenaks> Burgwork: scared or scarred? :)
[07:12] <Burgwork> both
[07:12] <LaserJock> lol
[07:12] <ploum> :-D
[07:13] <Treenaks> ploum: this is for your hackergotchi-and-hands-holding-signs-themed site?
[07:15] <ploum> Treenaks: not really ;-)  It's just a stupid idea with kikidonk
[07:15] <ploum> (He told me that jdub is our new cheerleader)
[07:15] <kikidonk> hehe
[07:16] <Treenaks> ploum: You're the Belgian twin of jdub then?
[07:16] <ploum> Treenaks: I wish I can be
[07:16] <ploum> I'm jealous !
[07:18] <ploum> Treenaks: you will give a talk about Ubuntu at LugRadio Live ?
[07:18] <Treenaks> ploum: well, keybuk is probably going to do the best one :)
[07:18] <Treenaks> ploum: but I'm scheduled to do one, yes (it'll probably be about ubuntu-nl)
[07:19] <ploum> keybuk ?
[07:19] <Treenaks> ploum: keybuk.#
[07:19] <Treenaks> -.#
[07:20] <sivang> hmm, what do I do when a user cannot connect to the X server? do I need to add him to an Xauthority file or something?
[07:20] <Treenaks> sivang: why can't he connect? :)
[07:20] <Treenaks> sivang: what are you trying, and why?
[07:21] <sivang> Treenaks: just su - dummy_user to check my backup program on 
[07:21] <ploum> sivang: look if the user is in the video group
[07:21] <Treenaks> sivang: don't su -
[07:21] <sivang> Treenaks: but gtk won't start, (users-admin:9903): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display:
[07:21] <Treenaks> sivang: just su
[07:22] <sivang>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py", line 38, in ?
[07:22] <sivang>     from _gtk import *
[07:22] <sivang> RuntimeError: could not open display
[07:22] <ploum> Well, it will not help you a lot but when su refuses to display, I ssh -X on localhost as a workaround
[07:22] <ploum> it's just a bit slower
[07:23] <ploum> hm, I think the video group is in fact only for 3D acceleration or something like that
[07:23] <sivang> err, the same
[07:23] <sivang> ploum: probably
[07:24] <ogra> sivang, echo $DISPLAY ?
[07:24] <seb128> try with xhost rather
[07:24] <sivang> xhost is what I'm looking for, /me hugs seb128 
[07:24] <sivang> thanks
[07:24] <seb128> heh, stay cool, np :)
[07:24] <ploum> pff... it's always the same with seb128
[07:24] <seb128> hey ploum :)
[07:24] <sivang> seb128: :-)
[07:25] <ploum> he's always right ! ;-)
[07:25] <ploum> hello :-)
[07:25] <ogra> ploum, yes, thats very sad, you cant argue with him and expect to win
[07:25] <ogra> :)+
[07:25] <ploum> in fact, my IRC client is called : "ask seb128"
[07:25] <ogra> lol
[07:26] <ploum> seb128: question for you. There's a problem with abiword mime type. It's recognized as a plain text file. Against wich package must I report the bug ?
[07:27] <dotwaffle> Good evening, all. Any chance Daniel Silverstone is around?
[07:27] <seb128> ploum: what file? right click with nautilus, properties and look the exact mimetype
[07:27] <Treenaks> dotwaffle: --> Kinnison 
[07:27] <dotwaffle> Treenaks: thanks, I'll query him.
[07:28] <ploum> seb128: it's an abw file. That was working fine yesterday. Today it's "Text/plain" in the Mime type
[07:28] <ogra> ploum, so did you update abiword today ? 
[07:28] <seb128> ploum: does other stuff still work?
[07:29] <seb128> ploum: like a .zip or a .png?
[07:29] <ploum> seb128: yes. ogg, mp3, png, pdf and even exe with wine
[07:29] <ploum> ogra: no
[07:29] <seb128> ploum: nothing changed for that
[07:30] <seb128> ploum: that would be a gnome-vfs2 bug so
[07:30] <seb128> ploum: feel free to open a bug and attach an example
[07:30] <ploum> I indeed upgraded it yesterday
[07:32] <ploum> Hm, there's a non-upgraded libgnome-vfs
[07:32] <ploum> I upgrade and then I report the bug
[07:32] <ploum> thanks :-)
[07:33] <ploum> (ogra : you see ! It works !)
[07:33] <ogra> ploum, i'm tempted to rename my xchat as well ;)
[07:33] <zyga> hey guys
[07:34] <ogra> "ask doctor seb" :)
[07:34] <seb128> I'm not a doctor, that's mdz :p
[07:35] <ogra> lol 
[07:35] <ogra> yeah
[07:35] <sivang> heh
[07:35] <ploum> seb128: must I report it upstream or in launchpad ?
[07:35] <seb128> ploum: put it to launchpad, I'll forward it
[07:35] <seb128> I want to play with it first
[07:36] <ploum> perfect
[07:36] <seb128> thank you
[07:42] <ploum> seb128: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-vfs2/+bug/33301
[07:42] <Ubugtu> malone bug 33301 in gnome-vfs2 "Abiword files have wrong MIME/Type" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[07:42] <ploum> do you want a sample file ?
[07:43] <seb128> ploum: no that's fine, thank you
[07:43] <seb128> happens with a simple file stored on the disk
[07:43] <seb128> dinner time, bbl
[07:43] <ploum> bon appetit
[07:44] <seb128> 'ci
[07:44] <dholbach> seb128: you really say "'ci"?
[07:45] <Treenaks> dholbach: nah, the words are just FAR too long ;)
[07:45] <G0SUB> pitti there?
[07:45] <ogra> dholbach, he already had his mouth full ;)
[07:45] <Treenaks> dholbach: how's Dutch Harry Potter going? :)
[07:45] <pitti> G0SUB: about to leave to training, sorry
[07:45] <dholbach> Treenaks: veeeeryyyy slooooowlyyyyy
[07:45] <mantiena> Hi all
[07:46] <G0SUB> pitti just 5 mins?
[07:46] <pitti> G0SUB: please email martin.pitt@ubuntu.com, or catch me tomorrow morning
[07:46] <dholbach> pitti: have fun!
[07:46] <pitti> G0SUB: no, sorry, bus is coming in 8 minuts
[07:46] <G0SUB> pitti okay, I will
[07:46] <G0SUB> pitti see you
[07:46] <pitti> cu guys
[07:46] <G0SUB> how many hours to ``tomorrow morning''? which TZ is he in?
[07:47] <Treenaks> G0SUB: He's in CET
[07:47] <G0SUB> Treenaks what's the offset?
[07:48] <Treenaks> G0SUB: 'Western Europe', GMT+1 afaik
[07:48] <G0SUB> oh. okay
[07:48] <G0SUB> a lot of people in GMT+1
[07:48] <Treenaks> all of Europe, except the UK, basically
[07:48] <Treenaks> oh and SA of course
[07:48] <mantiena> doko, hi, are you online ? I almost backported OOo 2.0.2 from your sources - all stuff was compiled properly, just got few errors when creating deb packages (install section in debian/rules)
[07:48] <G0SUB> heh
[07:49] <ogra> which is, uhm, central europe :)
[07:49] <mantiena> Treenaks, Lithuania is in +02 ;)
[07:49] <Treenaks> ogra: sure.. SA is central europe. Go tell sabdfl :P
[07:49] <ogra> hehe
[07:49] <G0SUB> lol
[07:51] <Mithrandir> elmo: there exists a plugin to do it, IIRC
[08:02] <mantiena> doko, please, tell me if you can build deb packages from 2.0.1oob680m4-0ubuntu3.1 source
[08:02] <mantiena> without errors
[08:08] <jbailey> Lintian bitches about hardlinks without actually saying why.  Can someone explain this to me?
[08:08] <dholbach> what does    lintian -i    say about the case?
[08:09] <jbailey> Ah, recent lintian actually has a better message.
[08:09] <jbailey> it used to say "Hardlinks are bad, mmkay?"
[08:10] <sivang> G0SUB: there's also people on GMT+2 :-)
[08:10] <G0SUB> sivang heh :)
[08:10] <G0SUB> I am on +0530
[08:11] <sivang> wow, where is that?
[08:11] <G0SUB> sivang dude, India!
[08:14] <G0SUB> sivang you know, your nick is very close to being an Indian name
[08:15] <sivang> G0SUB: why thank you, I didn't realize that :)
[08:15] <G0SUB> we may write it as Shivang ... the body of the God Shiva
[08:17] <sivang> funny, my name get's strange sounds all over, for example, japneese call me "Sheeban-San"
[08:17] <G0SUB> sivang the JP guys just have weird pronounciations for simple names
[08:18] <G0SUB> Sheeban is okay, but the extra San?
[08:18] <sivang> that is sort of a "mr." or so I'm told
[08:18] <Treenaks> G0SUB: that's just tacked onto every Japanese name
[08:18] <sivang> yes, inded.
[08:18] <Treenaks> G0SUB: it's a politeness form
[08:18] <G0SUB> oh, I see
[08:18] <Treenaks> or something
[08:19] <G0SUB> my name is Baishampayan Ghose ... I guess they'd pronounce it as Bison-Py-Yum GNU-Sh
[08:19] <G0SUB> a perfect Free & Open Source Software name
[08:19] <Treenaks> G0SUB: LOL :) cool
[08:20] <G0SUB> hehe
[08:21] <G0SUB> [no offense to any JP guy. you guys rock!] 
[08:21] <Treenaks> my nick is just a semi-pronounceable word that had 0 google hits when I chose it :)
[08:21] <G0SUB> why semi- ?
[08:22] <G0SUB> Treenaks I'd write it as  in my lang
[08:22] <trappist> I measure my value as a human being in google hits on my name
[08:22] <G0SUB> trappist lol
[08:22] <Treenaks> G0SUB: hmm.. shouldn't that be a single line connecting all the characters near the top? it breaks now(?)
[08:23] <G0SUB> Treenaks yeah, it shouldn't break ... your client needs the fonts and pango
[08:23] <Treenaks> G0SUB: I have fonts, and pango (gnome-terminal)
[08:23] <Treenaks> G0SUB: guess it's the font
[08:23] <Treenaks> (monospaced)
[08:24] <G0SUB> Treenaks broken free-fonts 
[08:24] <trappist> it's all accented a's, upsidedown question marks, subscripted 4's and control characters here
[08:24] <G0SUB> Treenaks btw, do you know which lang it is?
[08:24] <G0SUB> all hits on GOOG for my name are just _mine_ ... there is none in the whole world with my name & a web presence
[08:25] <Treenaks> G0SUB: well, I know the alphabet is called Devangar
[08:25] <G0SUB> Treenaks no, it's not Hindi
[08:25] <G0SUB> Treenaks India has 18 officially recognised languages
[08:25] <Treenaks> G0SUB: isn't the alphabet shared?
[08:25] <G0SUB> with distinct scripts
[08:26] <Treenaks> (at least by a few of those)
[08:26] <G0SUB> and thus, fonts
[08:26] <Treenaks> oh wow
[08:26] <Treenaks> must be a support disaster ;)
[08:26] <Treenaks> G0SUB: so what is it then?
[08:26] <G0SUB> Treenaks Bengali (bn) (ben)
[08:27] <G0SUB> it uses a script which is derived from the Brahmi Script
[08:27] <LaserJock> that's why I see all those fonts roll by when I install Ubuntu ;-)
[08:27] <Treenaks> G0SUB: *looks on omniglot.com*
[08:27] <G0SUB> the fonts included in freefonts is badly broken
[08:27] <G0SUB> LaserJock heh
[08:27] <Treenaks> G0SUB: Omniglot reports both Hindi and Bengali as derived from Brahmi
[08:27] <Mez> infinity: ping
[08:28] <G0SUB> Treenaks well, it's not accurate
[08:28] <G0SUB> Treenaks the Hindi script is Devnagari
[08:29] <Treenaks> G0SUB: I know that
[08:29] <Treenaks> G0SUB: it's the languages vs scripts thing I have mixed up I think
[08:29] <G0SUB> Treenaks brahmi is a script ... both hindi & bengali are derived from Sanskrit
[08:30] <Treenaks> ah
[08:30] <G0SUB> Sanskrit (sa) is the / of almost all Indic languages
[08:31] <Treenaks> G0SUB: Bengali almost looks like musical notes to me (if the renderings on http://www.omniglot.com/writing/bengali.htm are correct)
[08:31] <G0SUB> Treenaks heh, it's correct and what you said is funny
[08:32] <G0SUB> all indic languages are extremely complex for a computer to parse/understand btw :(
[08:33] <Treenaks> G0SUB: yeah, I've heard unicode rules for some Indic languages have been changed quite a few times to just make them _work_
[08:33] <G0SUB> yep
[08:34] <G0SUB> and we are facing some issues with the debian G-I ... although most of them have been solved now thanks to the community
[08:36] <Treenaks> see you later
[08:36] <sivang> Treenaks: you start sounding like garnacho ;p
[08:36] <sivang> (gnome-system-tools maintainer :)
[08:36] <Treenaks> sivang: is that a good thing?
[08:38] <sivang> Treenaks: ofcourse !
[08:46] <enz0_> I'm trying to extract the contents of dapper's install/initrd.gz file (which uses initramfs, right?) using 'cat initrd | (cpio -i -d -m ; cpio -i -d -m)' but get "cpio: premature end of archive" after it extracts 17Mb worth of data.  the md5 matches up so what am I doing wrong?
[08:48] <enz0_> hrm, I just did a 'cat ../initrd | cpio -i -d -m' and it seemed cool
[08:49] <enz0_> so what is the typical way of modifying/updating the initrd file if that's not it?
[09:22] <dooglus> is there a channel for security bugs?
[09:23] <Pygi> well, if security bugs exist, they should be filled as bugs if not extremly critical I think...
[09:23] <dooglus> I did that already.
[09:23] <dooglus> I was hoping to find someone to discuss it with.
[09:23] <Pygi> dooglus: well, what's the issue? :)
[09:23] <dooglus> for instance, what are "our embargo terms"?
[09:23] <sivang> dooglus: Chris ?
[09:24] <dooglus> yes, dooglus == Chris :)
[09:24] <Pygi> sivang: bazaar at gentoo.ubuntu.com ?? :-/
[09:25] <dooglus> I'm looking at the last comment attached to bug 30940 and wondering what it means about "breaking our embargo terms"
[09:25] <sivang> dooglus: Hey Chris, did you find the xplenation I put on the bug report how you can do patches and upload yourself satisfactory ?
[09:25] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30940 in flex "buffer overflow vulnerability in code generated by flex" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30940
[09:25] <dooglus> sivang: I did, thanks.
[09:25] <Pygi> dooglus: sec pls, lemme take a look
[09:25] <dooglus> sivang: so it looks like my first step is to find someone willing to sign my key?
[09:26] <sivang> dooglus: well, it can be, but in the background you can upload packages to REVU for univers so people will be able to evaluate your work, or let MOTUs grab your packages form somwhere else if you can't upload to REVU
[09:27] <dooglus> sivang: what's the situation with that?  I guess each package is owned by somebody.  Won't they get annoyed if I fix bugs in 'their' packages?
[09:28] <jbailey> sivang: I don't remember off hand what the machine is for, but manyof them are named after penguins.
[09:29] <Pygi> dooglus: might mean that the patch doesn't conform to ubuntu policy? :-/
[09:32] <dooglus> Pygi: I was wondering if it meant that pitti had asked the flex guys not to go public with it yet, but they did.
[09:32] <dooglus> Pygi: but it's not clear, is it.
[09:33] <Pygi> dooglus: true, can be interpreted almost in any way :-/
[09:34] <dooglus> Pygi: either way, it doesn't look to me like the patch fixes the bug...  I'm looking into it.
[09:34] <Burgwork> sivang, gentoo is one of the canonical servers
[09:34] <Pygi> dooglus: really? link to patch perphaps if I may look?
[09:34] <sivang> dooglus: mostly, if you have a change for the good, the original "maintianer" or the person who touched it last won't mind IIRC. In general you can contact the last uploader if in doubt (evident by the Changed-By field in the source) and aks for guidance
[09:35] <dooglus> Pygi: I've not seen the patch.  But the new binary is as bad as the old one, I think.
[09:35] <sivang> dooglus: also, make sure you contact dholbach or other people in #ubuntu-motu to start with the whole process. 
[09:37] <enz0_> is there a site where I can get more information about casper and how it's used in dapper's live cd?
[09:38] <sivang> dooglus: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU is a good read
[09:39] <dooglus> sivang: thanks
[09:40] <sivang> dooglus: my pleasure.
[10:05] <doko> Kamion: please promote lib64asound2-dev and lib32asound2-dev to main, b-d's of gcj-4.1
[11:26] <Mithrandir> grr
[11:27] <Mithrandir> networkmanager doesn't handle latin1 ESSIDs
[11:28] <Treenaks> ESSIDs should be UTF-8!
[11:28] <Mithrandir> NetworkManager shouldn't segfault. :-P
[11:28] <Treenaks> that too