| raphink | but people will have to check unsupported, proprietary software, and choose any DE | 12:03 |
|---|---|---|
| raphink | to get it | 12:03 |
| raphink | s/any DE/Any Suite/ | 12:04 |
| raphink | because it's in multiverse and not in the kde section | 12:04 |
| Riddell | not much can be done about that, it is unsupported and proprietry | 12:04 |
| raphink | yes | 12:04 |
| Riddell | put in Category=KDE is you want | 12:04 |
| Riddell | Category=KDE; rather | 12:04 |
| raphink | that's not what is taken in consideration | 12:04 |
| Riddell | isn't it? | 12:05 |
| raphink | it fetches debian/control | 12:05 |
| raphink | not the desktop | 12:05 |
| raphink | for the KDE/GNOME/Any Suite categ | 12:05 |
| raphink | or so it seems | 12:05 |
| Riddell | huh? where would it get that from? | 12:05 |
| raphink | cause I've put Category=KDE;AudioVideo; | 12:05 |
| raphink | Riddell: well it fetches the control file anyway to display the Description | 12:05 |
| raphink | so for example | 12:06 |
| raphink | $ apt-cache show kaffeine | 12:06 |
| raphink | Package: kaffeine | 12:06 |
| raphink | Priority: optional | 12:06 |
| raphink | Section: kde | 12:06 |
| raphink | it gets it from there it seems ;) | 12:06 |
| raphink | Section: kde | 12:06 |
| raphink | it should use debtags instead imo | 12:06 |
| raphink | would be better | 12:07 |
| raphink | since Section is a unique keyword | 12:07 |
| raphink | cause for example apps with Section: universe/kde are not put in the KDE section | 12:07 |
| raphink | they're very numerous and miss in the menus of course | 12:08 |
| raphink | Riddell: it seems also that adept installer uses the Comment entries for package description, instead of GenericName, which would be better imo | 12:11 |
| Riddell | hmm, right | 12:11 |
| raphink | since right now we focus ourselves on having good GenericName entries rather than Comment ones, some Comment entries are not good for description | 12:12 |
| raphink | moreover, it's the GenericName that is used in the Kmenu | 12:12 |
| raphink | what do you think? | 12:14 |
| Riddell | I think gnome-app-install uses the Comment | 12:15 |
| raphink | ah | 12:15 |
| raphink | then we should be more attentive to the Comment entries | 12:15 |
| Riddell | like that stupid amarok one | 12:15 |
| raphink | yes indeed | 12:16 |
| raphink | the amarok one is horrible | 12:16 |
| raphink | do you think I should provide this libxine-extracodecs desktop anyway? | 12:17 |
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| raphink | Riddell: did you get my changes into the KDE svn yet? | 12:21 |
| Riddell | yes, do | 12:21 |
| raphink | ok | 12:21 |
| Riddell | raphink: we'll discuss the menu entries at the user interface sprint I'm going to next week | 12:21 |
| raphink | ok good | 12:22 |
| raphink | how about my changes to ept ? | 12:22 |
| raphink | will you get it in the svn then release from it? or upload the changes as patches? | 12:22 |
| Riddell | raphink: your other changes I put in SVN | 12:23 |
| raphink | ok | 12:23 |
| allee | Riddel: I've look at new dapper install and cups listens on localhost:631 (netstat -plt | grep cups) | 12:24 |
| raphink | which is normal | 12:25 |
| Mez | Riddell: where can i find the knetwork-manager stuff | 12:26 |
| allee | Riddell: The 'error initializing printing system' goes away when a printer is defined (e.g. via browsing). Do you have printer setup?: lpstat -p | 12:38 |
| Riddell | allee: yeah, I know | 12:39 |
| allee | Riddell: so it looks like the return code needs to be more carefully check and/or the error msg enhanced | 12:39 |
| Riddell | Mez: suse factory | 12:39 |
| allee | Riddell: oh, why did I check this then? ;) | 12:40 |
| Mez | Riddell: ah ... i cant be arsed with that | 12:40 |
| allee | suse factory? | 12:41 |
| Riddell | allee: it's why I suspect it's probably not too difficult to fix, but I don't really know where to begin | 12:42 |
| Riddell | well, where that error is in the code presumably | 12:42 |
| Riddell | factory is suse's development branch | 12:42 |
| allee | ah, and this is what you plan to use for dapper+1? | 12:43 |
| Mez | Riddell: you any good at writing docbook stuff? | 12:43 |
| Riddell | Mez: I have my moments | 12:44 |
| Riddell | allee: knetworkmanager, yes | 12:44 |
| Mez | wanna write a docbook for katapult ? for KDE docs? | 12:44 |
| Mez | and also - wtf is qwhatsthis help? | 12:44 |
| allee | Mez: what you get Shift-F1 click, or [?] in window title | 12:45 |
| Riddell | Mez: not really | 12:45 |
| Mez | allee: ah we dont really have a window | 12:46 |
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| allee | Mez: qwhatthis without a window? interesting | 12:47 |
| Mez | allee: katapult only has a configure window | 12:47 |
| allee | Mez: 'k | 12:48 |
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| mez | Riddell: all my gnome apps in dapper are segfaulting | 01:02 |
| Riddell | mez: don't blame me :) | 01:04 |
| mez | Riddell: it's something to do with the most recent updates | 01:04 |
| mez | does adept updater make a log file | 01:04 |
| mez | brb | 01:05 |
| mez | gonna try gnome | 01:05 |
| mez | ok | 01:05 |
| mez | nope - xfce is dying too | 01:05 |
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| tonio_ | hey ;) | 10:32 |
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| seaLne | Riddell: ping | 12:30 |
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| Riddell | seaLne: yo | 12:38 |
| seaLne | got a few minutes to pick yur brain if you can remember anything about writing kio slaves? | 12:39 |
| Riddell | you can try | 12:40 |
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| seaLne | i'm having difficult trying to work out a simple explanation of what get, stat and listDir do as they all seem to create UDS stuff, i've been looking at kio_mac | 12:41 |
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| seaLne | and the way they interact | 12:41 |
| Riddell | I think get returns a file, stat gives information on a file and listDir returns the contents of a directory | 12:42 |
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| seaLne | hmm thats what i had thought | 12:43 |
| raphink | Riddell: hi | 12:43 |
| raphink | Riddell: do you have any clue on what https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdenetwork/+bug/33270 might be linked to ? It's a horrible bug | 12:43 |
| raphink | seems to be linked to avahi | 12:43 |
| Hobbsee__ | ack!!! | 12:43 |
| raphink | seaLne: did you find anything? | 12:44 |
| raphink | seaLne: I got "attacked" by this bug again, and now I can't do anything :( | 12:44 |
| raphink | Hobbsee_ : ack ? | 12:44 |
| raphink | Hobbsee_ : or hack ? | 12:44 |
| raphink | seaLne: killing kded just prevents everything from working | 12:44 |
| Lathiat | hrm | 12:45 |
| Lathiat | looks loike someone is callign get_state on an invalid client object | 12:45 |
| seaLne | Riddell: so listdir should return 0 or more UDSEntry? i can't seem to get it to display, hmm i'll look more closely at the Entry i'm creating | 12:45 |
| === Lathiat looks | ||
| Hobbsee___ | raphink: my connection isnt behaving here today - keeps dropping out | 12:45 |
| raphink | argh | 12:45 |
| seaLne | raphink: avahi-daemon needs to be running | 12:45 |
| theine | Hi, wouldn't it be a good idea to have Kmail show up by default in the K-menu? I don't think everybody wants to run kontact for checking mail | 12:45 |
| Lathiat | seaLne: its still a bug in kded | 12:45 |
| Lathiat | seaLne: it shoudl handle that | 12:45 |
| Riddell | raphink: try asking JakubS when he next appears on #kde-devel | 12:46 |
| raphink | Riddell: hmm ok | 12:46 |
| seaLne | yep, i only have avahi-daemon running so i can use kded | 12:46 |
| Lathiat | is client.c actually in kded? | 12:46 |
| Riddell | seaLne: it doesn't return anything, it calls listEntry() on a newly created Entry | 12:46 |
| Lathiat | seaLne: pff, sifn't run avahi all the time :) | 12:46 |
| theine | I apologize if this has already been discussed countless times before... | 12:46 |
| raphink | seaLne: avahi-daemon is not installed on my system | 12:46 |
| Lathiat | man archive.u.c. is so slow from .au now | 12:47 |
| raphink | dependency issue it seems | 12:47 |
| Lathiat | 15K/s is killing me | 12:47 |
| raphink | Riddell: installing avahi-daemon package fixes the bug | 12:47 |
| Riddell | theine: I don't want to have duplicates in the menu, although it would be nice to have some way of having it show up if kontact was not there | 12:47 |
| raphink | or so it seems so far | 12:47 |
| seaLne | Riddell: yeah sorry by return i ment be added to listEntry | 12:47 |
| Lathiat | raphink: yes, its caused by attempting to call a function in an invalid client object | 12:47 |
| theine | Riddell: it's not exactly a duplicate, is it? | 12:47 |
| Lathiat | raphink: obviously caused by the daemon not running, hence creation fo the client fails | 12:47 |
| raphink | Lathiat: well avahi-daemon is not install, hence daemon not running | 12:48 |
| theine | Riddell: kontact superseeds kmail, but there's no 1:1 correspondence | 12:48 |
| raphink | Lathiat: seems like adding a dependency to avahi-daemon package would fix this | 12:48 |
| Lathiat | raphink: well, its been resolved not to install avahi-daemon by default atm | 12:48 |
| Lathiat | raphink: as such, the bgu in kded that makes it die when avahi isn't runnign should be fixed :) | 12:48 |
| Lathiat | which im looking at now | 12:49 |
| raphink | ok | 12:49 |
| raphink | thanks :) | 12:49 |
| seaLne | heh | 12:49 |
| Lathiat | just waiting for an apt-get update and apt-get source and slow speeds :( | 12:49 |
| raphink | I've installed avahi-daemon though ;) | 12:49 |
| Riddell | theine: kontact includes kmail | 12:49 |
| seaLne | Riddell: i think kontact being in office (not saying it shouldn't be) maybe adds to the confusion | 12:50 |
| Lathiat | yes i had to hunt to find "kmail" | 12:51 |
| Lathiat | "kontact" isn't obviously news/mailc/calendar/todo/etc | 12:51 |
| Lathiat | first time i used kde it was very confusing to me | 12:51 |
| Lathiat | that said "Microsoft Outlook" isn't overly descriptive :) | 12:51 |
| seaLne | even the PIM description dosen't really help if you don'tknow | 12:52 |
| Riddell | this is why kontact is on the panel too by default | 12:53 |
| Lathiat | yeh i still couldnt find it ;p | 12:54 |
| theine | also, when using kmail inside kontact, there doesn't seem to be a way to get rid of the very left column in kontacts layout (that lists all of kontact's plugins). To me, this is quite a waste of screen real estate... | 12:54 |
| Lathiat | well i did after a little bit :) | 12:54 |
| seaLne | theine: you can make it icon only and tiny icon | 12:54 |
| Lathiat | theine: you just drag it smaller | 12:54 |
| Lathiat | theine: drag it as if you woudl reszie it | 12:54 |
| Lathiat | and take it all the way left | 12:54 |
| seaLne | you can't | 12:54 |
| Lathiat | works for me | 12:54 |
| seaLne | i can't make it change size | 12:55 |
| theine | Lathiat: I simply run kmail alone, but I'm just saying | 12:55 |
| seaLne | is Akregator considered a special case in that it has a menu option aswell? | 12:57 |
| Riddell | yes, that's an inconsistency. probably because it was only more recently a part of kontact | 12:59 |
| Mez | Riddell: do you think it's worth making a seperate katapult-i18n package | 01:00 |
| Mez | or seeing as theres not that many striings - just lump it in with the main katapult stuff | 01:01 |
| Riddell | Mez: put it in the main package | 01:02 |
| Mez | Riddell, kk | 01:03 |
| Mez | apparently we already have some translations for it .... lol | 01:03 |
| Riddell | separate -i18n packages are hassle for packagers and they get separated anyway in ubuntu | 01:03 |
| Mez | why do they get seperated anyways ? | 01:05 |
| Mez | in ubuntu | 01:05 |
| Riddell | so you don't have to have zulu translations on your xhosa machine | 01:06 |
| Mez | I was on about debian packages | 01:06 |
| Mez | *rolls eyes* | 01:07 |
| Mez | not upstream | 01:07 |
| Riddell | what would be the advantage of that? | 01:07 |
| Mez | wtf? | 01:07 |
| Mez | *bashes head* | 01:07 |
| Mez | right .. | 01:07 |
| Mez | the katapult sources will have extra .po files in it for the translated stuff... yes? | 01:08 |
| Mez | well when it gets built that installs that sort of thing somewhere else right ? | 01:08 |
| Mez | so - should I just make an i18n package out of that ... or forget about it ? | 01:08 |
| Riddell | include them in the katapult package | 01:10 |
| Mez | ok | 01:10 |
| Mez | makes life easier | 01:10 |
| Tm_T | Riddell: got your mail, thanks :) | 01:18 |
| Tm_T | more drugs for this pain -> | 01:19 |
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| Tonio_ | Riddell: hi ;) | 01:39 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: just done a few tests, and it doesn't seem possible to change the actual metabar theme | 01:40 |
| Riddell | Tonio_: it is | 01:40 |
| Tonio_ | hum... | 01:40 |
| Riddell | that's how we have the kubuntu theme now | 01:40 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: it is fixed width | 01:40 |
| Tonio_ | not the actual, I talk about the one I attempted to had 2 days ago | 01:41 |
| Tonio_ | the problem is that depending the size of phrases and words, it causes many bugs.... | 01:41 |
| Tonio_ | unless I comptlely change the css eventually.... | 01:41 |
| Tonio_ | but css doesn't manage stretching of background images... unless a very crappy hack | 01:42 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: that is just to say that if you want, you can publish the k-d-s I sent you 2 days ago.... | 01:43 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: and the corresponding kdebase patch too :) | 01:43 |
| Riddell | ok, thanks | 01:43 |
| Tonio_ | in fact, the actual one doesn't use background images, that's the main and biggest difference which makes it usable in any case | 01:44 |
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| freeflying | Riddell: ping | 02:25 |
| Riddell | freeflying: hi | 02:27 |
| freeflying | Riddell: need review on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2086 | 02:27 |
| Riddell | freeflying: busy just now, poke raphink, Tonio_. or I'll do it later | 02:28 |
| Tonio_ | freeflying: argh, have to move.... | 02:34 |
| Tonio_ | I will revu in about an hour, not more | 02:34 |
| freeflying | Tonio_: ok | 02:34 |
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| mornfall | hello | 02:59 |
| mornfall | anyone can relate http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=122829 ? | 03:00 |
| mornfall | seems that 64bit systems are somewhat fucked up | 03:00 |
| === mornfall is tempted to close with "unfuck your system" | ||
| Riddell | mornfall: adept starts up fine on my amd64 | 03:09 |
| Riddell | from a recent live CD | 03:09 |
| mornfall | interesting | 03:09 |
| mornfall | freeflying had this problem too, i think | 03:09 |
| mornfall | i can't seem to be able to track it down though (no amd64 machine) | 03:10 |
| freeflying | mornfall: I can not use adept on ppc and i386 | 03:10 |
| mornfall | aha, your amd box was not 64 | 03:10 |
| mornfall | i got confused | 03:10 |
| mornfall | but noone with intel observed this so far | 03:11 |
| mornfall | as far as i can say | 03:11 |
| freeflying | mornfall: ya, amd sermphon 2200+ | 03:11 |
| mornfall | i am out of date on CPU technology | 03:11 |
| mornfall | and specifically naming | 03:12 |
| mornfall | i only know so much about sempron that it's an amd cpu | 03:12 |
| freeflying | ya,you got it :) | 03:13 |
| Riddell | I think that's like a celeron for amd | 03:16 |
| mornfall | whatever | 03:17 |
| mornfall | the thing is that it doesn't work | 03:17 |
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| seaLne | my AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2100+ which is 32bit has no problems | 04:06 |
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| sebas | Riddell: Are there any Ubuntu patches that've gone into powersave? | 05:20 |
| sebas | I'm trying to get an updated powersave to work on Kubuntu, though. | 05:22 |
| sebas | Got the patch. | 05:24 |
| Riddell | sebas: no, I've not touched it | 05:36 |
| sebas | Riddell: I've got it already. | 05:36 |
| sebas | The init script needed to be changed. | 05:36 |
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| sebas | Riddell: Is powersaved on Kubuntu used by more packages, other than kpowersave? | 06:12 |
| sebas | And what would be the chance of updating the packages (kpowersave, powersaved)? | 06:12 |
| Riddell | sebas: no others. unlikely at this stage (UVF) | 06:12 |
| sebas | I'm testing powersaved 0.12 now, and it solves some problems for suspend2 users. | 06:13 |
| sebas | Hmm :/ | 06:13 |
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| sebas | Riddell: powersaved now supports Ubuntu's powersave scripts aswell, isn't that a reason to poke people? :-) | 06:25 |
| hunger | sebas: It does? | 06:26 |
| hunger | sebas: Is it packaged yet? | 06:26 |
| sebas | I.e. kpowersave can use /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh | 06:26 |
| sebas | hunger: There's a package for .11, but we'd need .12 | 06:26 |
| sebas | hunger: I'm just writing an email with some explanation, want CC:? | 06:26 |
| === hunger stares at his inbox... | ||
| hunger | kpowersave is way nicer then the klaptopdaemon. Would be really cool if we had that instead in kubuntu. | 06:28 |
| === hunger is of getting some tea. | ||
| === sebas agrees. | ||
| sebas | klaptopdaemon is basically abandoned by the developers, and kpowersave is also so much nicer. | 06:29 |
| sebas | Seeing your display going darker if you unplug the powercord is kewl :-) | 06:29 |
| Riddell | sebas: that is interesting | 06:31 |
| Riddell | sebas: writing a mail to whom? | 06:31 |
| sebas | It's come out of a discussion on userspace support of suspend to disk. | 06:32 |
| sebas | I'll CC: Kunbuntu-devel | 06:32 |
| Riddell | thanks | 06:32 |
| sebas | And ubuntu-devel, for that matter. | 06:32 |
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| === _Sime finds launchpad confusing to navigate. | ||
| Riddell | _Sime: you're not the first | 07:48 |
| _Sime | is there some kind of policy concerning closing out bug reports? | 07:51 |
| Riddell | close them when they're fixed? | 07:52 |
| Riddell | how do you mean? | 07:52 |
| _Sime | fixed+confirmed fixed? or fixed when I think they *should* be fixed? | 07:57 |
| _Sime | fixed when _probably_ fixed? | 07:57 |
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| mbiebl | Riddell, did you read my post on kubuntu-devel about (k)powersave? | 08:03 |
| mbiebl | Would it be possible to add a Requires: powernowd | powersaved, apmd | powersaved ? | 08:04 |
| mbiebl | Would make it easier for people to try out and test powersaved/kpowersave | 08:06 |
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| mbiebl | And hello to all, btw. (my first post tu kubunt-devel) | 08:14 |
| Lure | hello mbiebl | 08:15 |
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| Riddell | mbiebl: hi | 08:31 |
| Riddell | _Sime: if it's only probably fixed then leave it at Confirmed until you know it's fixed | 08:33 |
| Riddell | mbiebl: I've not had time to look at the powersave stuff, busy on espresso today | 08:33 |
| mbiebl | Riddell, I can happily offer my help in case you need it. | 08:35 |
| Riddell | mbiebl: where would we add that requires? | 08:35 |
| mbiebl | The kubuntu-desktop meta-package | 08:36 |
| Riddell | no, kubuntu-desktop is a definitive list, we can't put choices in it, the whole point is that we choose the items in it for you :) | 08:37 |
| Riddell | mbiebl: are you a powersave devel? | 08:37 |
| mbiebl | I started with packaging it and now contribute to it on a regular basis. So sort of. I'm not part of the core team. | 08:38 |
| Lure | mbiebl, Riddell: I think it will be hard unless we decide that we replace klaptop as default | 08:39 |
| Lure | and even then we have an issue if user has both ubuntu and kubuntu-desktop | 08:39 |
| Lure | as ubuntu-desktop requires powernowd (with minimal g-p-m depending on it) | 08:40 |
| Lure | actually it does not require, but this is how they do CPU freq stuff | 08:42 |
| mbiebl | So there is no other way than to replace powernowd/apmd in kubuntu-desktop and to go with powersaved completely? | 08:42 |
| Lure | yes, but we still have an issue with ubuntu/edubuntu-desktop which can be installed on Kubuntu | 08:43 |
| mbiebl | Yes, we will have a conflict here, if ubuntu goes for powernowd/apmd/g-p-m | 08:44 |
| Lure | mbiebl: that is the fact - we cannot change it (nothing better exists for gnome AFAIK) | 08:44 |
| Riddell | it's ok to have packages that conflict with ubuntu-desktop, that's not the end of the world | 08:45 |
| Riddell | my hesitancy with going to powersaved is just that the shutdown scripts are completely different, if it could be made to use the same scripts that should be fine | 08:45 |
| Lure | Riddell: then it is just an issue of decision (hard after FF) and potential risks of new bugs | 08:45 |
| Lure | (however klaptop seems to be worse) | 08:46 |
| Riddell | and yes, being after FF makes things harder of course | 08:46 |
| === Riddell goes out | ||
| mbiebl | Well, klaptop is no match to the (k)powersave combo | 08:48 |
| Lure | mbiebl: I agree, but I have to admit that laptop support of ubuntu is good | 08:49 |
| Riddell | mbiebl: yes, but I don't want to have different bugs in kubuntu than ubuntu, so we need to get kpowersave using ubuntu's pmi command or hal | 08:49 |
| Lure | I think Riddell's concern is that we may replace good with unknown | 08:49 |
| Lure | even though that kpowersave is great for my notebook ;-) | 08:50 |
| mbiebl | Well the hal callout script is a simple shell script that checks if pmi, powersave is available and leaves the work to them. | 08:50 |
| Riddell | mbiebl: exactly, that's what I want :) | 08:50 |
| mbiebl | We could seamlessly use powersave (and its scripts) without ill effects. | 08:51 |
| Riddell | and then when people say "ubuntu suspends but kubuntu doesn't" I wouldn't know where to begin debugging powersave's scripts | 08:52 |
| mbiebl | We could of course try to make powersave use the scripts of the acpi-support package. | 08:52 |
| Lure | Riddell: but this is currently anway the case due to klaptop bugs | 08:52 |
| Lure | :-( | 08:52 |
| mbiebl | But I don't know how much work that is. | 08:53 |
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| mbiebl | I only know, that the powersave scripts have been developed for several years now whereas the acpi-support scripts are rather new. | 08:53 |
| Lure | mbiebl: you can quickly do a major cut (replace everything) as I did for test | 08:53 |
| Lure | but this limits kpowersave to jsut fancy GUI | 08:54 |
| Lure | and then settings are not respected (screensaver...) | 08:54 |
| Lure | I am not sure if we can do it in a way that we would leave preparation to powersave | 08:54 |
| Lure | and just call pmi for last part (actual suspend/hibernate) | 08:55 |
| mbiebl | Hm, things like screensaver and locking the screen after suspend/hibernate are done by kpowersave (besides switching a profile, if you want to do that manually) | 08:55 |
| mbiebl | Everything else are simple callouts to powersaved. | 08:57 |
| mbiebl | And is handled there. | 08:57 |
| Lure | exactly, but if we replace calls to powersaved, then what is the use of it? | 08:59 |
| Lure | just CPU freq stuff? | 08:59 |
| mbiebl | You mean if we replace the scripts that powersaved calls on certain events? | 09:01 |
| mbiebl | (k)powersave should not notice that. | 09:01 |
| Lure | yes - that what Riddell would like to see | 09:02 |
| mbiebl | If we can map all scripts of powersave with scripts from acpi-support we should no loose functionality. | 09:03 |
| mbiebl | But I don't know if acpi-support has something like the set_disk_settings script where you can control the acoustic and power management of an IDE disk | 09:04 |
| Lure | no (AFAIK) | 09:04 |
| mbiebl | So we would loose functionality :-/ | 09:05 |
| mbiebl | My suggestion would be to go the scripts supplied by powersave. Otherwise you have a mix of acpi-support and powersave and if something does not work the situation is even worse | 09:06 |
| mbiebl | Is it a problem of powersaved or in the acpi-support scripts? Makes it even harder to debug imho | 09:07 |
| Lure | I would agree, but timing is bad (feature freeze), even though I think that kpowersave | 09:07 |
| Lure | is probably as good if not better than acpi-support+klaptop | 09:08 |
| Lure | (because klaptop sucks) | 09:08 |
| mbiebl | It's definitely better | 09:08 |
| mbiebl | One of the best features imho is that you can define and select different schemes. | 09:09 |
| mbiebl | E.g when you have a presentation and you are on batteries the display would normally go blank. | 09:09 |
| mbiebl | In kpowersave you can simply select the Presentation scheme and voila! There is nothing comparable out there. | 09:10 |
| Lure | what I think is important is that klaptop is not maintained, while kpowersave developers | 09:13 |
| mbiebl | In the end, Jonathan has to decide. I can only say, that I would suggest to use powersave and its supplied scripts and offer my help if there are issues. | 09:13 |
| Lure | show interest for other distribution support | 09:13 |
| Lure | I am concerned with pile of klaptop bugs that will need fixing... :-( | 09:13 |
| Lure | https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=klaptopdaemon | 09:15 |
| mbiebl | Whereas the powersave developer have great interest in other distributions using it. | 09:16 |
| Lure | and you are doing great job in getting proper debian base | 09:16 |
| mbiebl | They are very open for patches and suggestions. | 09:17 |
| mbiebl | Thx ;-) I do my best. | 09:17 |
| Lure | your as-is packages (just rebuild) work on Kubuntu (besides the dependancy thing) | 09:18 |
| mbiebl | We worked hard to remove all SuSE specific details and make it completely distribution agnostic. | 09:18 |
| mbiebl | Compared to 4 months ago, where I started working on it, it improved considerably. | 09:19 |
| Lure | Riddell: what if we push in latest versions (UVF) and then ask LaptopTestTeam to test | 09:24 |
| Lure | (manually remove apmd, powernowd) | 09:24 |
| Lure | If reports are positive (and enough feedback), we can make a switch, otherwise leave | 09:25 |
| Lure | and then do it in Dapper+1 on day one (to have enough testing) | 09:25 |
| mbiebl | Please also consider, that for Kubuntu you can remove my dbus_access.diff patch and remove the creation of the powerdev group from powersaved.postinst. | 09:26 |
| mbiebl | libpam_foreground should work with at_console="true". | 09:27 |
| Lure | why do you need this for debian? | 09:28 |
| mbiebl | In Debian, with have no pam_console (or comparable) module. | 09:28 |
| mbiebl | So I solve that with a special powerdev group. | 09:29 |
| mbiebl | This is in the latest version 0.12.0 and 0.12.1, older versions used the group "plugdev" for that which was not quite appropriate. | 09:30 |
| mbiebl | So we, the Debian Utopia Team, decided to create a new group for that matter. | 09:30 |
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| infinitezeros | hello | 09:32 |
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| allee | Hmm, I ponder why kubuntu should use a '2nd' class powermanagement when kpowersave works: Work on kpowersave and decide before release if better than current status? | 09:34 |
| jjesse | are that many people having problems with the current power program right now? | 09:35 |
| allee | mbieble, Lure: You think you have time to work on this, in next weeks? | 09:35 |
| jjesse | my laptop has never worked so good hibernate/suspend wise since i did a fresh install of dapper | 09:35 |
| allee | jjesse: never really worked, and UI is bullshit | 09:36 |
| allee | + IMHO of course | 09:36 |
| jjesse | allee: all i know is that hibernate and suspend is working on a flight4 install of dapper | 09:36 |
| Lure | allee: I am new to debian packaging, I just have great interest for good laptop support | 09:37 |
| Lure | but sure I am willing to put my evenings into this (when kids are sleeping ;- | 09:37 |
| allee | jjesse: if susp/hiber works at all is a mater of kernel support and workaround/hacks in acpi-support. If the knowledgebase of powersave scripts is bigger, the better. But I can't judge this | 09:37 |
| Lure | ;-) | 09:37 |
| mbiebl | Well a working STD and STR greatly depends on your hardware and the used kernel | 09:38 |
| jjesse | i'm not an expert, all i know is if it works and if it doesnt :) | 09:38 |
| allee | Lure: with pkging I can help. No problem. I just will not have the time for extented testing. Bug checking etc... | 09:39 |
| mbiebl | What powersave (and the acpi-support scripts) mainly do, is unmounting potential problematic partitions, unloading potential problematic modules. | 09:39 |
| mbiebl | (in case of powersave sending NetworkManger a signal to deactivate the network interfaces) | 09:39 |
| mbiebl | switching to console for problematic video chipset and then activating vi "echo mem > /sys/power/state" | 09:40 |
| allee | mbiebl: Is there an uptodate (src/deb) repo for kubuntu (k)powersave? I would like to take a look ... | 09:40 |
| mbiebl | Thats all. | 09:40 |
| mbiebl | Well, I'm coming from the Debian camp | 09:40 |
| allee | mbiebl: no problem ;) | 09:41 |
| mbiebl | I would have to look that the current version in Kubuntu is | 09:41 |
| mbiebl | Lure, ? | 09:41 |
| Lure | allee: I have just created Kubuntu packages out of mbiebels and they just work for me | 09:41 |
| allee | mbiebl: kubuntu: kpowersave_0.5.2-1_i386.deb powersaved_0.11.2-1_i386.deb | 09:42 |
| Lure | I did not remove dbus patch as now suggested by mbiebel (I did not understand the background) | 09:42 |
| mbiebl | Oh, the are pretty outdated already. | 09:42 |
| Lure | I use 0.5.8/0.12.0 | 09:42 |
| mbiebl | I'm about to upload powersaved_0.12.1 and kpowersave_0.5.9 the next days. | 09:42 |
| allee | He, so I download oldcrap ... Cheching sid ... | 09:42 |
| Lure | allee: new version is quite improved (for example dual battery display) | 09:43 |
| allee | mbiebl: are they only on your harddisk or is the a svn or whatever repo? | 09:43 |
| mbiebl | I don't know the mechanisms of (K)ubuntu exactly. I just know that the MOTU team has taken my packages and released them for (K)ubuntu | 09:43 |
| Lure | allee: I just pick up the source here | 09:44 |
| Lure | http://www.teco.edu/~biebl/debian/dists/unstable/main/source/ | 09:44 |
| mbiebl | Lure, yes that's my private devel repos where I upload my own version before they are uploaded to the unstable archive. | 09:45 |
| allee | downloading ... | 09:45 |
| mbiebl | Lure, do you know how is responsible for the current package in the Kubuntu archive? | 09:46 |
| Lure | mbiebl: do you have 0.5.9 already "around the corner"? | 09:46 |
| mbiebl | Yes, I'm about to upload it tonight. | 09:46 |
| Lure | Do not know who did it - I am not MOTU and do not know how to check this | 09:46 |
| Lure | only mbiebl is mentioned in packages | 09:47 |
| mbiebl | We could use the Replaces/Provides trick for the Kubuntu packages. So people could test it without uninstalling the kubuntu-desktop metapackage. | 09:47 |
| allee | (k)powersave is in universe so the group of MOTUs is responsible ... | 09:48 |
| === allee adds them to my bugwatch ... | ||
| mbiebl | allee, what does that mean. Who takes care of recompiling it or is this some kind of semi automatic? | 09:49 |
| allee | mbiebl: universe is managent my volunteer called MOTU. | 09:49 |
| allee | mbiebl: yeah, semi automatic. | 09:50 |
| mbiebl | So anybody in the MOTU team can upload a new revision? Not necessarily always the same on? | 09:50 |
| Lure | mbiebl: I think so - but they review them upfront on revu system | 09:50 |
| Lure | http://revu.tauware.de/index.py | 09:51 |
| Lure | you need support of others and now also exception for UpstreamVersionFreeze | 09:51 |
| mbiebl | You mean for getting (k)powersave into Dapper. | 09:52 |
| Lure | for getting new version from upstream (being Debian/or original maintainer) | 09:53 |
| allee | mbiebl: now, new version have to be reviewed to judge if they to more harm than good. Bug fixes okay, new features not. | 09:54 |
| Lure | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000545.html | 09:55 |
| allee | mbiebl: I've no idea what has changed in (k)powersave. The more features the better one needs to argue, or have backup by other kubuntu developers | 09:55 |
| mbiebl | So how should I proceed to get an new version of (k)powersave into the Kubuntu archive? | 09:56 |
| allee | Create the new version and ask for someone to upload to REVU. | 09:56 |
| Lure | allee: can you do upload to revu or do we need somebody else? | 09:57 |
| allee | Yes, but I'll only have 64BB until monday ;) | 09:57 |
| allee | on REVU you'll find who to get upload right. Easy thing! | 09:58 |
| allee | mbiebl: you can also put it next to your private debian repo and we pick it up there for check/tests | 09:59 |
| raphink | Lure: are you in the REVU keyring? | 09:59 |
| Lure | raphink: I am complete newbie in debian packaging | 10:00 |
| mbiebl | Ok, what about this: I will prepare packages of the latest versions and add the kubuntu specific changes. I will give it some testing love and will contact you, allee, personally via email. | 10:00 |
| raphink | Lure: if you want to upload a package to REVU, you need to get your PGP key in the REVU keyring. Just send me a mail signed by your key and I can add you. | 10:01 |
| allee | mbiebl: okay | 10:01 |
| allee | mbiebl: I'm just not always online over the week end. So expect a bit of delay ... | 10:01 |
| raphink | Lure: if you're new to Debian packaging, I'd say have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Packaging/Tips | 10:02 |
| allee | mbiebl: you can additionaly just place the download URL here and ask for tests | 10:02 |
| Lure | raphink: I started playing with this - hope to improve in this | 10:02 |
| mbiebl | alle, funny, I just noticed that we already have been in contact (do you remember knemo?) | 10:02 |
| raphink | Lure: sure, don't hesitate asking for help | 10:02 |
| allee | raphink: we need Lure's time for testing, not pkging ;) | 10:02 |
| raphink | ah ok | 10:03 |
| raphink | well packagers are better testers, aren't they? | 10:03 |
| allee | mbiebl: small world ;) | 10:03 |
| Lure | ;-) | 10:03 |
| allee | raphink: that a matter of time. | 10:04 |
| allee | raphink: best is to have both :) | 10:05 |
| raphink | hehe :) | 10:05 |
| allee | I have to leave. Highway is waiting for me ;) | 10:05 |
| raphink | sure | 10:05 |
| allee | bye | 10:05 |
| raphink | ciao allee | 10:05 |
| Lure | bye allee | 10:05 |
| mbiebl | Me too. Have some work left. | 10:05 |
| mbiebl | cu | 10:05 |
| === raphink is done building a nice repo for his unofficial packages :) | ||
| raphink | Lure: when you have questions of packaging, better be on #ubuntu-motu | 10:18 |
| Lure | I am watching there for couple of days now just to get an impression ;-) | 10:19 |
| raphink | sure :) | 10:21 |
| raphink | Lure: are you running dapper or breezy? | 10:21 |
| Lure | both: breezy during the day (work), dapper evenings/testing (also on home desktop) | 10:22 |
| raphink | ok | 10:22 |
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