[12:03] <raphink> but people will have to check unsupported, proprietary software, and choose any DE
[12:03] <raphink> to get it
[12:04] <raphink> s/any DE/Any Suite/
[12:04] <raphink> because it's in multiverse and not in the kde section
[12:04] <Riddell> not much can be done about that, it is unsupported and proprietry
[12:04] <raphink> yes
[12:04] <Riddell> put in Category=KDE is you want
[12:04] <Riddell> Category=KDE; rather
[12:04] <raphink> that's not what is taken in consideration
[12:05] <Riddell> isn't it?
[12:05] <raphink> it fetches debian/control
[12:05] <raphink> not the desktop
[12:05] <raphink> for the KDE/GNOME/Any Suite categ
[12:05] <raphink> or so it seems
[12:05] <Riddell> huh?  where would it get that from?
[12:05] <raphink> cause I've put Category=KDE;AudioVideo;
[12:05] <raphink> Riddell: well it fetches the control file anyway to display the Description
[12:06] <raphink> so for example
[12:06] <raphink>  $ apt-cache show kaffeine
[12:06] <raphink> Package: kaffeine
[12:06] <raphink> Priority: optional
[12:06] <raphink> Section: kde
[12:06] <raphink> it gets it from there it seems ;)
[12:06] <raphink> Section: kde
[12:06] <raphink> it should use debtags instead imo
[12:07] <raphink> would be better 
[12:07] <raphink> since Section is a unique keyword
[12:07] <raphink> cause for example apps with Section: universe/kde are not put in the KDE section
[12:08] <raphink> they're very numerous and miss in the menus of course
[12:11] <raphink> Riddell: it seems also that adept installer uses the Comment entries for package description, instead of GenericName, which would be better imo
[12:11] <Riddell> hmm, right
[12:12] <raphink> since right now we focus ourselves on having good GenericName entries rather than Comment ones, some Comment entries are not good for description
[12:12] <raphink> moreover, it's the GenericName that is used in the Kmenu
[12:14] <raphink> what do you think?
[12:15] <Riddell> I think gnome-app-install uses the Comment
[12:15] <raphink> ah
[12:15] <raphink> then we should be more attentive to the Comment entries
[12:15] <Riddell> like that stupid amarok one
[12:16] <raphink> yes indeed
[12:16] <raphink> the amarok one is horrible
[12:17] <raphink> do you think I should provide this libxine-extracodecs desktop anyway?
[12:21] <raphink> Riddell: did you get my changes into the KDE svn yet?
[12:21] <Riddell> yes, do
[12:21] <raphink> ok
[12:21] <Riddell> raphink: we'll discuss the menu entries at the user interface sprint I'm going to next week
[12:22] <raphink> ok good
[12:22] <raphink> how about my changes to ept ?
[12:22] <raphink> will you get it in the svn then release from it? or upload the changes as patches?
[12:23] <Riddell> raphink: your other changes I put in SVN
[12:23] <raphink> ok
[12:24] <allee> Riddel: I've look at new dapper install and cups listens on localhost:631  (netstat -plt | grep cups)
[12:25] <raphink> which is normal
[12:26] <Mez> Riddell: where can i find the knetwork-manager stuff
[12:38] <allee> Riddell: The 'error initializing printing system' goes away when a printer is defined (e.g. via browsing).  Do you have printer setup?:  lpstat -p
[12:39] <Riddell> allee: yeah, I know
[12:39] <allee> Riddell: so it looks like the return code needs to be more carefully check and/or the error msg enhanced
[12:39] <Riddell> Mez: suse factory
[12:40] <allee> Riddell: oh, why did I check this then? ;)
[12:40] <Mez> Riddell: ah ... i cant be arsed with that
[12:41] <allee> suse factory?
[12:42] <Riddell> allee: it's why I suspect it's probably not too difficult to fix, but I don't really know where to begin
[12:42] <Riddell> well, where that error is in the code presumably
[12:42] <Riddell> factory is suse's development branch
[12:43] <allee> ah, and this is what you plan to use for dapper+1?
[12:43] <Mez> Riddell: you any good at writing docbook stuff?
[12:44] <Riddell> Mez: I have my moments
[12:44] <Riddell> allee: knetworkmanager, yes
[12:44] <Mez> wanna write a docbook for katapult ? for KDE docs?
[12:44] <Mez> and also - wtf is qwhatsthis help?
[12:45] <allee> Mez: what you get Shift-F1 click,   or [?]  in window title
[12:45] <Riddell> Mez: not really
[12:46] <Mez> allee: ah we dont really have a window
[12:47] <allee> Mez: qwhatthis without a window?  interesting
[12:47] <Mez> allee: katapult only has a configure window
[12:48] <allee> Mez: 'k
[01:02] <mez> Riddell: all my gnome apps in dapper are segfaulting
[01:04] <Riddell> mez: don't blame me :)
[01:04] <mez> Riddell: it's something to do with the most recent updates
[01:04] <mez> does adept updater make a log file
[01:05] <mez> brb
[01:05] <mez> gonna try gnome
[01:05] <mez> ok
[01:05] <mez> nope - xfce is dying too
[10:32] <tonio_> hey ;)
[12:30] <seaLne> Riddell: ping
[12:38] <Riddell> seaLne: yo
[12:39] <seaLne> got a few minutes to pick yur brain if you can remember anything about writing kio slaves?
[12:40] <Riddell> you can try
[12:41] <seaLne> i'm having difficult trying to work out a simple explanation of what get, stat and listDir do as they all seem to create UDS stuff, i've been looking at kio_mac
[12:41] <seaLne> and the way they interact
[12:42] <Riddell> I think get returns a file, stat gives information on a file and listDir returns the contents of a directory
[12:43] <seaLne> hmm thats what i had thought
[12:43] <raphink> Riddell: hi
[12:43] <raphink> Riddell: do you have any clue on what https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdenetwork/+bug/33270 might be linked to ? It's a horrible bug 
[12:43] <raphink> seems to be linked to avahi
[12:43] <Hobbsee__> ack!!!
[12:44] <raphink> seaLne: did you find anything?
[12:44] <raphink> seaLne: I got "attacked" by this bug again, and now I can't do anything :(
[12:44] <raphink> Hobbsee_ : ack ?
[12:44] <raphink> Hobbsee_ : or hack ?
[12:44] <raphink> seaLne: killing kded just prevents everything from working
[12:45] <Lathiat> hrm
[12:45] <Lathiat> looks loike someone is callign get_state on an invalid client object
[12:45] <seaLne> Riddell: so listdir should return 0 or more UDSEntry? i can't seem to get it to display, hmm i'll look more closely at the Entry i'm creating
[12:45] <Hobbsee___> raphink: my connection isnt behaving here today - keeps dropping out
[12:45] <raphink> argh
[12:45] <seaLne> raphink: avahi-daemon needs to be running
[12:45] <theine> Hi, wouldn't it be a good idea to have Kmail show up by default in the K-menu? I don't think everybody wants to run kontact for checking mail
[12:45] <Lathiat> seaLne: its still a bug in kded
[12:45] <Lathiat> seaLne: it shoudl handle that
[12:46] <Riddell> raphink: try asking JakubS when he next appears on #kde-devel
[12:46] <raphink> Riddell: hmm ok
[12:46] <seaLne> yep, i only have avahi-daemon running so i can use kded
[12:46] <Lathiat> is client.c actually in kded?
[12:46] <Riddell> seaLne: it doesn't return anything, it calls listEntry() on a newly created Entry
[12:46] <Lathiat> seaLne: pff, sifn't run avahi all the time :)
[12:46] <theine> I apologize if this has already been discussed countless times before...
[12:46] <raphink> seaLne: avahi-daemon is not installed on my system
[12:47] <Lathiat> man archive.u.c. is so slow from .au now
[12:47] <raphink> dependency issue it seems
[12:47] <Lathiat> 15K/s is killing me
[12:47] <raphink> Riddell: installing avahi-daemon package fixes the bug
[12:47] <Riddell> theine: I don't want to have duplicates in the menu, although it would be nice to have some way of having it show up if kontact was not there
[12:47] <raphink> or so it seems so far
[12:47] <seaLne> Riddell: yeah sorry by return i ment be added to listEntry
[12:47] <Lathiat> raphink: yes, its caused by attempting to call a function in an invalid client object
[12:47] <theine> Riddell: it's not exactly a duplicate, is it?
[12:47] <Lathiat> raphink: obviously caused by the daemon not running, hence creation fo the client fails
[12:48] <raphink> Lathiat: well avahi-daemon is not install, hence daemon not running
[12:48] <theine> Riddell: kontact superseeds kmail, but there's no 1:1 correspondence
[12:48] <raphink> Lathiat: seems like adding a dependency to avahi-daemon package would fix this
[12:48] <Lathiat> raphink: well, its been resolved not to install avahi-daemon by default atm
[12:48] <Lathiat> raphink: as such, the bgu in kded that makes it die when avahi isn't runnign should be fixed :)
[12:49] <Lathiat> which im looking at now
[12:49] <raphink> ok
[12:49] <raphink> thanks :)
[12:49] <seaLne> heh
[12:49] <Lathiat> just waiting for an apt-get update and apt-get source and slow speeds :(
[12:49] <raphink> I've installed avahi-daemon though ;)
[12:49] <Riddell> theine: kontact includes kmail
[12:50] <seaLne> Riddell: i think kontact being in office (not saying it shouldn't be) maybe adds to the confusion
[12:51] <Lathiat> yes i had to hunt to find "kmail" 
[12:51] <Lathiat> "kontact" isn't obviously news/mailc/calendar/todo/etc
[12:51] <Lathiat> first time i used kde it was very confusing to me
[12:51] <Lathiat> that said "Microsoft Outlook" isn't overly descriptive :)
[12:52] <seaLne> even the PIM description dosen't really help if you don'tknow
[12:53] <Riddell> this is why kontact is on the panel too by default
[12:54] <Lathiat> yeh i still couldnt find it ;p
[12:54] <theine> also, when using kmail inside kontact, there doesn't seem to be a way to get rid of the very left column in kontacts layout (that lists all of kontact's plugins). To me, this is quite a waste of screen real estate...
[12:54] <Lathiat> well i did after a little bit :)
[12:54] <seaLne> theine: you can make it icon only and tiny icon
[12:54] <Lathiat> theine: you just drag it smaller
[12:54] <Lathiat> theine: drag it as if you woudl reszie it
[12:54] <Lathiat> and take it all the way left
[12:54] <seaLne> you can't
[12:54] <Lathiat> works for me 
[12:55] <seaLne> i can't make it change size
[12:55] <theine> Lathiat: I simply run kmail alone, but I'm just saying
[12:57] <seaLne> is Akregator considered a special case in that it has a menu option aswell?
[12:59] <Riddell> yes, that's an inconsistency.  probably because it was only more recently a part of kontact
[01:00] <Mez> Riddell: do you think it's worth making a seperate katapult-i18n package 
[01:01] <Mez> or seeing as theres not that many striings - just lump it in with the main katapult stuff
[01:02] <Riddell> Mez: put it in the main package
[01:03] <Mez> Riddell, kk
[01:03] <Mez> apparently we already have some translations for it .... lol
[01:03] <Riddell> separate -i18n packages are hassle for packagers and they get separated anyway in ubuntu
[01:05] <Mez> why do they get seperated anyways ?
[01:05] <Mez> in ubuntu
[01:06] <Riddell> so you don't have to have zulu translations on your xhosa machine
[01:06] <Mez> I was on about debian packages
[01:07] <Mez> *rolls eyes*
[01:07] <Mez> not upstream
[01:07] <Riddell> what would be the advantage of that?
[01:07] <Mez> wtf?
[01:07] <Mez> *bashes head*
[01:07] <Mez> right ..
[01:08] <Mez> the katapult sources will have extra .po files in it for the translated stuff... yes?
[01:08] <Mez> well when it gets built that installs that sort of thing somewhere else right ?
[01:08] <Mez> so - should I just make an i18n package out of that ... or forget about it ?
[01:10] <Riddell> include them in the katapult package
[01:10] <Mez> ok
[01:10] <Mez> makes life easier
[01:18] <Tm_T> Riddell: got your mail, thanks :)
[01:19] <Tm_T> more drugs for this pain ->
[01:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: hi ;)
[01:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: just done a few tests, and it doesn't seem possible to change the actual metabar theme
[01:40] <Riddell> Tonio_: it is
[01:40] <Tonio_> hum...
[01:40] <Riddell> that's how we have the kubuntu theme now
[01:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: it is fixed width
[01:41] <Tonio_> not the actual, I talk about the one I attempted to had 2 days ago
[01:41] <Tonio_> the problem is that depending the size of phrases and words, it causes many bugs....
[01:41] <Tonio_> unless I comptlely change the css eventually....
[01:42] <Tonio_> but css doesn't manage stretching of background images... unless a very crappy hack
[01:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: that is just to say that if you want, you can publish the k-d-s I sent you 2 days ago....
[01:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: and the corresponding kdebase patch too :)
[01:43] <Riddell> ok, thanks
[01:44] <Tonio_> in fact, the actual one doesn't use background images, that's the main and biggest difference which makes it usable in any case
[02:25] <freeflying> Riddell: ping
[02:27] <Riddell> freeflying: hi
[02:27] <freeflying> Riddell: need review on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2086
[02:28] <Riddell> freeflying: busy just now, poke raphink, Tonio_.  or I'll do it later
[02:34] <Tonio_> freeflying: argh, have to move....
[02:34] <Tonio_> I will revu in about an hour, not more
[02:34] <freeflying> Tonio_: ok
[02:59] <mornfall> hello
[03:00] <mornfall> anyone can relate http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=122829 ?
[03:00] <mornfall> seems that 64bit systems are somewhat fucked up
[03:09] <Riddell> mornfall: adept starts up fine on my amd64
[03:09] <Riddell> from a recent live CD
[03:09] <mornfall> interesting
[03:09] <mornfall> freeflying had this problem too, i think
[03:10] <mornfall> i can't seem to be able to track it down though (no amd64 machine)
[03:10] <freeflying> mornfall: I can not use adept on ppc and i386
[03:10] <mornfall> aha, your amd box was not 64
[03:10] <mornfall> i got confused
[03:11] <mornfall> but noone with intel observed this so far
[03:11] <mornfall> as far as i can say
[03:11] <freeflying> mornfall: ya, amd sermphon 2200+
[03:11] <mornfall> i am out of date on CPU technology
[03:12] <mornfall> and specifically naming
[03:12] <mornfall> i only know so much about sempron that it's an amd cpu
[03:13] <freeflying> ya,you got it  :)
[03:16] <Riddell> I think that's like a celeron for amd
[03:17] <mornfall> whatever
[03:17] <mornfall> the thing is that it doesn't work
[04:06] <seaLne> my AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2100+ which is 32bit has no problems
[05:20] <sebas> Riddell: Are there any Ubuntu patches that've gone into powersave?
[05:22] <sebas> I'm trying to get an updated powersave to work on Kubuntu, though.
[05:24] <sebas> Got the patch.
[05:36] <Riddell> sebas: no, I've not touched it
[05:36] <sebas> Riddell: I've got it already.
[05:36] <sebas> The init script needed to be changed.
[06:12] <sebas> Riddell: Is powersaved on Kubuntu used by more packages, other than kpowersave?
[06:12] <sebas> And what would be the chance of updating the packages (kpowersave, powersaved)?
[06:12] <Riddell> sebas: no others. unlikely at this stage (UVF)
[06:13] <sebas> I'm testing powersaved 0.12 now, and it solves some problems for suspend2 users.
[06:13] <sebas> Hmm :/
[06:25] <sebas> Riddell: powersaved now supports Ubuntu's powersave scripts aswell, isn't that a reason to poke people? :-)
[06:26] <hunger> sebas: It does?
[06:26] <hunger> sebas: Is it packaged yet?
[06:26] <sebas> I.e. kpowersave can use /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh
[06:26] <sebas> hunger: There's a package for .11, but we'd need .12
[06:26] <sebas> hunger: I'm just writing an email with some explanation, want CC:?
[06:28] <hunger> kpowersave is way nicer then the klaptopdaemon. Would be really cool if we had that instead in kubuntu.
[06:29] <sebas> klaptopdaemon is basically abandoned by the developers, and kpowersave is also so much nicer.
[06:29] <sebas> Seeing your display going darker if you unplug the powercord is kewl :-)
[06:31] <Riddell> sebas: that is interesting
[06:31] <Riddell> sebas: writing a mail to whom?
[06:32] <sebas> It's come out of a discussion on userspace support of suspend to disk.
[06:32] <sebas> I'll CC: Kunbuntu-devel
[06:32] <Riddell> thanks
[06:32] <sebas> And ubuntu-devel, for that matter.
[07:48] <Riddell> _Sime: you're not the first
[07:51] <_Sime> is there some kind of policy concerning closing out bug reports?
[07:52] <Riddell> close them when they're fixed?
[07:52] <Riddell> how do you mean?
[07:57] <_Sime> fixed+confirmed fixed? or fixed when I think they *should* be fixed?
[07:57] <_Sime> fixed when _probably_ fixed?
[08:03] <mbiebl> Riddell, did you read my post on kubuntu-devel about (k)powersave?
[08:04] <mbiebl> Would it be possible to add a Requires: powernowd | powersaved, apmd | powersaved ? 
[08:06] <mbiebl> Would make it easier for people to try out and test powersaved/kpowersave
[08:14] <mbiebl> And hello to all, btw. (my first post tu kubunt-devel)
[08:15] <Lure> hello mbiebl
[08:31] <Riddell> mbiebl: hi
[08:33] <Riddell> _Sime: if it's only probably fixed then leave it at Confirmed until you know it's fixed
[08:33] <Riddell> mbiebl: I've not had time to look at the powersave stuff, busy on espresso today
[08:35] <mbiebl> Riddell, I can happily offer my help in case you need it.
[08:35] <Riddell> mbiebl: where would we add that requires?
[08:36] <mbiebl> The kubuntu-desktop meta-package
[08:37] <Riddell> no, kubuntu-desktop is a definitive list, we can't put choices in it, the whole point is that we choose the items in it for you :)
[08:37] <Riddell> mbiebl: are you a powersave devel?
[08:38] <mbiebl> I started with packaging it and now contribute to it on a regular basis. So sort of. I'm not part of the core team.
[08:39] <Lure> mbiebl, Riddell: I think it will be hard unless we decide that we replace klaptop as default
[08:39] <Lure> and even then we have an issue if user has both ubuntu and kubuntu-desktop
[08:40] <Lure> as ubuntu-desktop requires powernowd (with minimal g-p-m depending on it)
[08:42] <Lure> actually it does not require, but this is how they do CPU freq stuff
[08:42] <mbiebl> So there is no other way than to replace powernowd/apmd in kubuntu-desktop and to go with powersaved completely? 
[08:43] <Lure> yes, but we still have an issue with ubuntu/edubuntu-desktop which can be installed on Kubuntu
[08:44] <mbiebl> Yes, we will have a conflict here, if ubuntu goes for powernowd/apmd/g-p-m
[08:44] <Lure> mbiebl: that is the fact - we cannot change it (nothing better exists for gnome AFAIK)
[08:45] <Riddell> it's ok to have packages that conflict with ubuntu-desktop, that's not the end of the world
[08:45] <Riddell> my hesitancy with going to powersaved is just that the shutdown scripts are completely different, if it could be made to use the same scripts that should be fine
[08:45] <Lure> Riddell: then it is just an issue of decision (hard after FF) and potential risks of new bugs
[08:46] <Lure> (however klaptop seems to be worse)
[08:46] <Riddell> and yes, being after FF makes things harder of course
[08:48] <mbiebl> Well, klaptop is no match to the (k)powersave combo 
[08:49] <Lure> mbiebl: I agree, but I have to admit that laptop support of ubuntu is good
[08:49] <Riddell> mbiebl: yes, but I don't want to have different bugs in kubuntu than ubuntu, so we need to get kpowersave using ubuntu's pmi command or hal
[08:49] <Lure> I think Riddell's concern is that we may replace good with unknown
[08:50] <Lure> even though that kpowersave is great for my notebook ;-)
[08:50] <mbiebl> Well the hal callout script is a simple shell script that checks if pmi, powersave is available and leaves the work to them.
[08:50] <Riddell> mbiebl: exactly, that's what I want :)
[08:51] <mbiebl> We could seamlessly use powersave (and its scripts) without ill effects.
[08:52] <Riddell> and then when people say "ubuntu suspends but kubuntu doesn't" I wouldn't know where to begin debugging powersave's scripts
[08:52] <mbiebl> We could of course try to make powersave use the scripts of the acpi-support package.
[08:52] <Lure> Riddell: but this is currently anway the case due to klaptop bugs
[08:52] <Lure> :-(
[08:53] <mbiebl> But I don't know how much work that is.
[08:53] <mbiebl> I only know, that the powersave scripts have been developed for several years now whereas the acpi-support scripts are rather new.
[08:53] <Lure> mbiebl: you can quickly do a major cut (replace everything) as I did for test
[08:54] <Lure> but this limits kpowersave to jsut fancy GUI
[08:54] <Lure> and then settings are not respected (screensaver...)
[08:54] <Lure> I am not sure if we can do it in a way that we would leave preparation to powersave 
[08:55] <Lure> and just call pmi for last part (actual suspend/hibernate)
[08:55] <mbiebl> Hm, things like screensaver and locking the screen after suspend/hibernate are done by kpowersave (besides switching a profile, if you want to do that manually)
[08:57] <mbiebl> Everything else are simple callouts to powersaved.
[08:57] <mbiebl> And is handled there.
[08:59] <Lure> exactly, but if we replace calls to powersaved, then what is the use of it?
[08:59] <Lure> just CPU freq stuff?
[09:01] <mbiebl> You mean if we replace the scripts that powersaved calls on certain events?
[09:01] <mbiebl> (k)powersave should not notice that. 
[09:02] <Lure> yes - that what Riddell would like to see
[09:03] <mbiebl> If we can map all scripts of powersave with scripts from acpi-support we should no loose functionality.
[09:04] <mbiebl> But I don't know if acpi-support has something like the set_disk_settings script where you can control the acoustic and power management of an IDE disk
[09:04] <Lure> no (AFAIK)
[09:05] <mbiebl> So we would loose functionality :-/
[09:06] <mbiebl> My suggestion would be to go the scripts supplied by powersave. Otherwise you have a mix of acpi-support and powersave and if something does not work the situation is even worse
[09:07] <mbiebl> Is it a problem of powersaved or in the acpi-support scripts? Makes it even harder to debug imho
[09:07] <Lure> I would agree, but timing is bad (feature freeze), even though I think that kpowersave
[09:08] <Lure> is probably as good if not better than acpi-support+klaptop
[09:08] <Lure> (because klaptop sucks)
[09:08] <mbiebl> It's definitely better
[09:09] <mbiebl> One of the best features imho is that you can define and select different schemes.
[09:09] <mbiebl> E.g when you have a presentation and you are on batteries the display would normally go blank.
[09:10] <mbiebl> In kpowersave you can simply select the Presentation scheme and voila! There is nothing comparable out there.
[09:13] <Lure> what I think is important is that klaptop is not maintained, while kpowersave developers
[09:13] <mbiebl> In the end, Jonathan has to decide. I can only say, that I would suggest to use powersave and its supplied scripts and offer my help if there are issues.
[09:13] <Lure> show interest for other distribution support
[09:13] <Lure> I am concerned with pile of klaptop bugs that will need fixing... :-(
[09:15] <Lure> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=klaptopdaemon
[09:16] <mbiebl> Whereas the powersave developer have great interest in other distributions using it.
[09:16] <Lure> and you are doing great job in getting proper debian base
[09:17] <mbiebl> They are very open for patches and suggestions.
[09:17] <mbiebl> Thx ;-) I do my best.
[09:18] <Lure> your as-is packages (just rebuild) work on Kubuntu (besides the dependancy thing)
[09:18] <mbiebl> We worked hard to remove all SuSE specific details and make it completely distribution agnostic.
[09:19] <mbiebl> Compared to 4 months ago, where I started working on it, it improved considerably.
[09:24] <Lure>  Riddell: what if we push in latest versions (UVF) and then ask LaptopTestTeam to test
[09:24] <Lure> (manually remove apmd, powernowd)
[09:25] <Lure> If reports are positive (and enough feedback), we can make a switch, otherwise leave
[09:25] <Lure> and then do it in Dapper+1 on day one (to have enough testing)
[09:26] <mbiebl> Please also consider, that for Kubuntu you can remove my dbus_access.diff patch and remove the creation of the powerdev group from powersaved.postinst.
[09:27] <mbiebl> libpam_foreground should work with at_console="true".
[09:28] <Lure> why do you need this for debian?
[09:28] <mbiebl> In Debian, with have no pam_console (or comparable) module.
[09:29] <mbiebl> So I solve that with a special powerdev group.
[09:30] <mbiebl> This is in the latest version 0.12.0 and 0.12.1, older versions used the group "plugdev" for that which was not quite appropriate.
[09:30] <mbiebl> So we, the Debian Utopia Team, decided to create a new group for that matter.
[09:32] <infinitezeros> hello
[09:34] <allee> Hmm, I ponder why kubuntu should use a '2nd' class powermanagement when kpowersave works:  Work on kpowersave and decide before release if better than current status?
[09:35] <jjesse> are that many people having problems with the current power program right now?
[09:35] <allee> mbieble, Lure: You think you have time to work on this, in next weeks?
[09:35] <jjesse> my laptop has never worked so good hibernate/suspend wise since i  did a fresh install of dapper
[09:36] <allee> jjesse: never really worked, and UI is bullshit
[09:36] <allee> + IMHO of course
[09:36] <jjesse> allee: all i know is that hibernate and suspend is working on a flight4 install of dapper
[09:37] <Lure> allee: I am new to debian packaging, I just have great interest for good laptop support
[09:37] <Lure> but sure I am willing to put my evenings into this (when kids are sleeping ;-
[09:37] <allee> jjesse: if susp/hiber works at all is a mater of kernel support and workaround/hacks in acpi-support.  If the knowledgebase of powersave scripts is bigger, the better.  But I can't judge this
[09:37] <Lure> ;-)
[09:38] <mbiebl> Well a working STD and STR greatly depends on your hardware and the used kernel
[09:38] <jjesse> i'm not an expert, all i know is if it works and if it doesnt :)
[09:39] <allee> Lure: with pkging I can help. No problem.   I just will not have the time for extented testing.  Bug checking etc...
[09:39] <mbiebl> What powersave (and the acpi-support scripts) mainly do, is unmounting potential problematic partitions, unloading potential problematic modules.
[09:39] <mbiebl> (in case of powersave sending NetworkManger a signal to deactivate the network interfaces)
[09:40] <mbiebl> switching to console for problematic video chipset and then activating vi "echo mem > /sys/power/state"
[09:40] <allee> mbiebl: Is there an uptodate (src/deb) repo for kubuntu (k)powersave?   I would like to take a look ...
[09:40] <mbiebl> Thats all.
[09:40] <mbiebl> Well, I'm coming from the Debian camp
[09:41] <allee> mbiebl: no problem ;)
[09:41] <mbiebl> I would have to look that the current version in Kubuntu is
[09:41] <mbiebl> Lure, ?
[09:41] <Lure> allee: I have just created Kubuntu packages out of mbiebels and they just work for me
[09:42] <allee> mbiebl: kubuntu: kpowersave_0.5.2-1_i386.deb powersaved_0.11.2-1_i386.deb
[09:42] <Lure> I did not remove dbus patch as now suggested by mbiebel (I did not understand the background)
[09:42] <mbiebl> Oh, the are pretty outdated already.
[09:42] <Lure> I use 0.5.8/0.12.0 
[09:42] <mbiebl> I'm about to upload powersaved_0.12.1 and kpowersave_0.5.9 the next days.
[09:42] <allee> He, so I download oldcrap ...  Cheching sid ...
[09:43] <Lure> allee: new version is quite improved (for example dual battery display)
[09:43] <allee> mbiebl: are they only on your harddisk or is the a svn or whatever repo?
[09:43] <mbiebl> I don't know the mechanisms of (K)ubuntu exactly. I just know that the MOTU team has taken my packages and released them for (K)ubuntu
[09:44] <Lure> allee: I just pick up the source here
[09:44] <Lure> http://www.teco.edu/~biebl/debian/dists/unstable/main/source/
[09:45] <mbiebl> Lure, yes that's my private devel repos where I upload my own version before they are uploaded to the unstable archive.
[09:45] <allee> downloading ...
[09:46] <mbiebl> Lure, do you know how is responsible for the current package in the Kubuntu archive?
[09:46] <Lure> mbiebl: do you have 0.5.9 already "around the corner"?
[09:46] <mbiebl> Yes, I'm about to upload it tonight.
[09:46] <Lure> Do not know who did it - I am not MOTU and do not know how to check this
[09:47] <Lure> only mbiebl is mentioned in packages
[09:47] <mbiebl> We could use the Replaces/Provides trick for the Kubuntu packages. So people could test it without uninstalling the kubuntu-desktop metapackage.
[09:48] <allee> (k)powersave is in universe so the group of MOTUs is responsible ...
[09:49] <mbiebl> allee, what does that mean. Who takes care of recompiling it or is this some kind of semi automatic?
[09:49] <allee> mbiebl: universe is managent my volunteer called MOTU.
[09:50] <allee> mbiebl: yeah, semi automatic.
[09:50] <mbiebl> So anybody in the MOTU team can upload a new revision? Not necessarily always the same on?
[09:50] <Lure> mbiebl: I think so - but they review them upfront on revu system
[09:51] <Lure> http://revu.tauware.de/index.py
[09:51] <Lure> you need support of others and now also exception for UpstreamVersionFreeze
[09:52] <mbiebl> You mean for getting (k)powersave into Dapper.
[09:53] <Lure> for getting new version from upstream (being Debian/or original maintainer)
[09:54] <allee> mbiebl: now, new version have to be reviewed to judge if they to more harm than good.  Bug fixes okay, new features not.
[09:55] <Lure> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000545.html
[09:55] <allee> mbiebl: I've no idea what has changed in (k)powersave.  The more features the better one needs to argue, or have backup by other kubuntu developers
[09:56] <mbiebl> So how should I proceed to get an new version of (k)powersave into the Kubuntu archive?
[09:56] <allee> Create the new version and ask for someone to upload to REVU.
[09:57] <Lure> allee: can you do upload to revu or do we need somebody else?
[09:57] <allee> Yes, but I'll only have 64BB until monday ;)
[09:58] <allee> on REVU you'll find who to get upload right.  Easy thing!
[09:59] <allee> mbiebl: you can also put it next to your private debian repo and we pick it up there for check/tests
[09:59] <raphink> Lure: are you in the REVU keyring?
[10:00] <Lure> raphink: I am complete newbie in debian packaging 
[10:00] <mbiebl> Ok, what about this: I will prepare packages of the latest versions and add the kubuntu specific changes. I will give it some testing love and will contact you, allee, personally via email.
[10:01] <raphink> Lure: if you want to upload a package to REVU, you need to get your PGP key in the REVU keyring. Just send me a mail signed by your key and I can add you.
[10:01] <allee> mbiebl: okay
[10:01] <allee> mbiebl: I'm just not always online over the week end.  So expect a bit of delay ...
[10:02] <raphink> Lure: if you're new to Debian packaging, I'd say have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Packaging/Tips
[10:02] <allee> mbiebl: you can additionaly just place the download URL here and ask for tests
[10:02] <Lure> raphink: I started playing with this - hope to improve in this
[10:02] <mbiebl> alle, funny, I just noticed that we already have been in contact (do you remember knemo?)
[10:02] <raphink> Lure: sure, don't hesitate asking for help 
[10:02] <allee> raphink: we need Lure's time for testing, not pkging ;)
[10:03] <raphink> ah ok
[10:03] <raphink> well packagers are better testers, aren't they?
[10:03] <allee> mbiebl: small world ;)
[10:03] <Lure> ;-)
[10:04] <allee> raphink: that a matter of time.
[10:05] <allee> raphink: best is to have both :)
[10:05] <raphink> hehe :)
[10:05] <allee> I have to leave.  Highway is waiting for me ;)
[10:05] <raphink> sure
[10:05] <allee> bye
[10:05] <raphink> ciao allee
[10:05] <Lure> bye allee
[10:05] <mbiebl> Me too. Have some work left.
[10:05] <mbiebl> cu
[10:18] <raphink> Lure: when you have questions of packaging, better be on #ubuntu-motu
[10:19] <Lure> I am watching there for couple of days now just to get an impression ;-)
[10:21] <raphink> sure :)
[10:21] <raphink> Lure: are you running dapper or breezy?
[10:22] <Lure> both: breezy during the day (work), dapper evenings/testing (also on home desktop)
[10:22] <raphink> ok