[12:03] but people will have to check unsupported, proprietary software, and choose any DE [12:03] to get it [12:04] s/any DE/Any Suite/ [12:04] because it's in multiverse and not in the kde section [12:04] not much can be done about that, it is unsupported and proprietry [12:04] yes [12:04] put in Category=KDE is you want [12:04] Category=KDE; rather [12:04] that's not what is taken in consideration [12:05] isn't it? [12:05] it fetches debian/control [12:05] not the desktop [12:05] for the KDE/GNOME/Any Suite categ [12:05] or so it seems [12:05] huh? where would it get that from? [12:05] cause I've put Category=KDE;AudioVideo; [12:05] Riddell: well it fetches the control file anyway to display the Description [12:06] so for example [12:06] $ apt-cache show kaffeine [12:06] Package: kaffeine [12:06] Priority: optional [12:06] Section: kde [12:06] it gets it from there it seems ;) [12:06] Section: kde [12:06] it should use debtags instead imo [12:07] would be better [12:07] since Section is a unique keyword [12:07] cause for example apps with Section: universe/kde are not put in the KDE section [12:08] they're very numerous and miss in the menus of course [12:11] Riddell: it seems also that adept installer uses the Comment entries for package description, instead of GenericName, which would be better imo [12:11] hmm, right [12:12] since right now we focus ourselves on having good GenericName entries rather than Comment ones, some Comment entries are not good for description [12:12] moreover, it's the GenericName that is used in the Kmenu [12:14] what do you think? [12:15] I think gnome-app-install uses the Comment [12:15] ah [12:15] then we should be more attentive to the Comment entries [12:15] like that stupid amarok one [12:16] yes indeed [12:16] the amarok one is horrible [12:17] do you think I should provide this libxine-extracodecs desktop anyway? === _fred [n=fred@modemcable141.162-82-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:21] Riddell: did you get my changes into the KDE svn yet? [12:21] yes, do [12:21] ok [12:21] raphink: we'll discuss the menu entries at the user interface sprint I'm going to next week [12:22] ok good [12:22] how about my changes to ept ? [12:22] will you get it in the svn then release from it? or upload the changes as patches? [12:23] raphink: your other changes I put in SVN [12:23] ok [12:24] Riddel: I've look at new dapper install and cups listens on localhost:631 (netstat -plt | grep cups) [12:25] which is normal [12:26] Riddell: where can i find the knetwork-manager stuff [12:38] Riddell: The 'error initializing printing system' goes away when a printer is defined (e.g. via browsing). Do you have printer setup?: lpstat -p [12:39] allee: yeah, I know [12:39] Riddell: so it looks like the return code needs to be more carefully check and/or the error msg enhanced [12:39] Mez: suse factory [12:40] Riddell: oh, why did I check this then? ;) [12:40] Riddell: ah ... i cant be arsed with that [12:41] suse factory? [12:42] allee: it's why I suspect it's probably not too difficult to fix, but I don't really know where to begin [12:42] well, where that error is in the code presumably [12:42] factory is suse's development branch [12:43] ah, and this is what you plan to use for dapper+1? [12:43] Riddell: you any good at writing docbook stuff? [12:44] Mez: I have my moments [12:44] allee: knetworkmanager, yes [12:44] wanna write a docbook for katapult ? for KDE docs? [12:44] and also - wtf is qwhatsthis help? [12:45] Mez: what you get Shift-F1 click, or [?] in window title [12:45] Mez: not really [12:46] allee: ah we dont really have a window === bobesponja [i=pat@bas75-1-81-57-4-105.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:47] Mez: qwhatthis without a window? interesting [12:47] allee: katapult only has a configure window [12:48] Mez: 'k === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-48-188.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #kubuntu-devel === mez [n=mez@81-179-71-213.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel [01:02] Riddell: all my gnome apps in dapper are segfaulting [01:04] mez: don't blame me :) [01:04] Riddell: it's something to do with the most recent updates [01:04] does adept updater make a log file [01:05] brb [01:05] gonna try gnome [01:05] ok [01:05] nope - xfce is dying too === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #kubuntu-devel === claydoh [n=clay@65.99.187.225] has joined #kubuntu-devel === JRe_ [n=jre@pai34-2-82-226-199-36.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === toma [i=toma@ip83.kovoks.nl] has left #kubuntu-devel ["Ooh,] === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.25] has joined #kubuntu-devel === LeeJunFan_ [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.25] has joined #kubuntu-devel === hua [n=hua@221.172.48.16] has joined #kubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.25] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #kubuntu-devel === robotgeek [i=venkat@ubuntu/member/robotgeek] has joined #kubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #kubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.25] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Hobbsee awaits tonio_'s return === Firetech [n=Jocke@h78n2fls311o1100.telia.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #kubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.25] has joined #kubuntu-devel === freeflying-ibook [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.25] has joined #kubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.25] has joined #kubuntu-devel === tonio_ [n=tonio@cac94-5-82-229-219-55.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [10:32] hey ;) === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #kubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg@210.4.38.43] has joined #kubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.25] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #kubuntu-devel === JRe [n=jre@pai34-2-82-226-199-36.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:30] Riddell: ping === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Hobbsee_ [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:38] seaLne: yo [12:39] got a few minutes to pick yur brain if you can remember anything about writing kio slaves? [12:40] you can try === Creamier_Oak [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:41] i'm having difficult trying to work out a simple explanation of what get, stat and listDir do as they all seem to create UDS stuff, i've been looking at kio_mac === theine [n=theine@c224152.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:41] and the way they interact [12:42] I think get returns a file, stat gives information on a file and listDir returns the contents of a directory === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Hobbsee__ [n=Hobbsee@CPE-144-136-113-76.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:43] hmm thats what i had thought [12:43] Riddell: hi [12:43] Riddell: do you have any clue on what https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdenetwork/+bug/33270 might be linked to ? It's a horrible bug [12:43] seems to be linked to avahi [12:43] ack!!! [12:44] seaLne: did you find anything? [12:44] seaLne: I got "attacked" by this bug again, and now I can't do anything :( [12:44] Hobbsee_ : ack ? [12:44] Hobbsee_ : or hack ? [12:44] seaLne: killing kded just prevents everything from working [12:45] hrm [12:45] looks loike someone is callign get_state on an invalid client object [12:45] Riddell: so listdir should return 0 or more UDSEntry? i can't seem to get it to display, hmm i'll look more closely at the Entry i'm creating === Lathiat looks [12:45] raphink: my connection isnt behaving here today - keeps dropping out [12:45] argh [12:45] raphink: avahi-daemon needs to be running [12:45] Hi, wouldn't it be a good idea to have Kmail show up by default in the K-menu? I don't think everybody wants to run kontact for checking mail [12:45] seaLne: its still a bug in kded [12:45] seaLne: it shoudl handle that [12:46] raphink: try asking JakubS when he next appears on #kde-devel [12:46] Riddell: hmm ok [12:46] yep, i only have avahi-daemon running so i can use kded [12:46] is client.c actually in kded? [12:46] seaLne: it doesn't return anything, it calls listEntry() on a newly created Entry [12:46] seaLne: pff, sifn't run avahi all the time :) [12:46] I apologize if this has already been discussed countless times before... [12:46] seaLne: avahi-daemon is not installed on my system [12:47] man archive.u.c. is so slow from .au now [12:47] dependency issue it seems [12:47] 15K/s is killing me [12:47] Riddell: installing avahi-daemon package fixes the bug [12:47] theine: I don't want to have duplicates in the menu, although it would be nice to have some way of having it show up if kontact was not there [12:47] or so it seems so far [12:47] Riddell: yeah sorry by return i ment be added to listEntry [12:47] raphink: yes, its caused by attempting to call a function in an invalid client object [12:47] Riddell: it's not exactly a duplicate, is it? [12:47] raphink: obviously caused by the daemon not running, hence creation fo the client fails [12:48] Lathiat: well avahi-daemon is not install, hence daemon not running [12:48] Riddell: kontact superseeds kmail, but there's no 1:1 correspondence [12:48] Lathiat: seems like adding a dependency to avahi-daemon package would fix this [12:48] raphink: well, its been resolved not to install avahi-daemon by default atm [12:48] raphink: as such, the bgu in kded that makes it die when avahi isn't runnign should be fixed :) [12:49] which im looking at now [12:49] ok [12:49] thanks :) [12:49] heh [12:49] just waiting for an apt-get update and apt-get source and slow speeds :( [12:49] I've installed avahi-daemon though ;) [12:49] theine: kontact includes kmail [12:50] Riddell: i think kontact being in office (not saying it shouldn't be) maybe adds to the confusion [12:51] yes i had to hunt to find "kmail" [12:51] "kontact" isn't obviously news/mailc/calendar/todo/etc [12:51] first time i used kde it was very confusing to me [12:51] that said "Microsoft Outlook" isn't overly descriptive :) [12:52] even the PIM description dosen't really help if you don'tknow [12:53] this is why kontact is on the panel too by default [12:54] yeh i still couldnt find it ;p [12:54] also, when using kmail inside kontact, there doesn't seem to be a way to get rid of the very left column in kontacts layout (that lists all of kontact's plugins). To me, this is quite a waste of screen real estate... [12:54] well i did after a little bit :) [12:54] theine: you can make it icon only and tiny icon [12:54] theine: you just drag it smaller [12:54] theine: drag it as if you woudl reszie it [12:54] and take it all the way left [12:54] you can't [12:54] works for me [12:55] i can't make it change size [12:55] Lathiat: I simply run kmail alone, but I'm just saying [12:57] is Akregator considered a special case in that it has a menu option aswell? [12:59] yes, that's an inconsistency. probably because it was only more recently a part of kontact [01:00] Riddell: do you think it's worth making a seperate katapult-i18n package [01:01] or seeing as theres not that many striings - just lump it in with the main katapult stuff [01:02] Mez: put it in the main package [01:03] Riddell, kk [01:03] apparently we already have some translations for it .... lol [01:03] separate -i18n packages are hassle for packagers and they get separated anyway in ubuntu [01:05] why do they get seperated anyways ? [01:05] in ubuntu [01:06] so you don't have to have zulu translations on your xhosa machine [01:06] I was on about debian packages [01:07] *rolls eyes* [01:07] not upstream [01:07] what would be the advantage of that? [01:07] wtf? [01:07] *bashes head* [01:07] right .. [01:08] the katapult sources will have extra .po files in it for the translated stuff... yes? [01:08] well when it gets built that installs that sort of thing somewhere else right ? [01:08] so - should I just make an i18n package out of that ... or forget about it ? [01:10] include them in the katapult package [01:10] ok [01:10] makes life easier [01:18] Riddell: got your mail, thanks :) [01:19] more drugs for this pain -> === ubijtsa [n=ubijtsa@karlsson.force9.co.uk] has joined #kubuntu-devel === ubijtsa [n=ubijtsa@karlsson.force9.co.uk] has joined #kubuntu-devel [01:39] Riddell: hi ;) [01:40] Riddell: just done a few tests, and it doesn't seem possible to change the actual metabar theme [01:40] Tonio_: it is [01:40] hum... [01:40] that's how we have the kubuntu theme now [01:40] Riddell: it is fixed width [01:41] not the actual, I talk about the one I attempted to had 2 days ago [01:41] the problem is that depending the size of phrases and words, it causes many bugs.... [01:41] unless I comptlely change the css eventually.... [01:42] but css doesn't manage stretching of background images... unless a very crappy hack [01:43] Riddell: that is just to say that if you want, you can publish the k-d-s I sent you 2 days ago.... [01:43] Riddell: and the corresponding kdebase patch too :) [01:43] ok, thanks [01:44] in fact, the actual one doesn't use background images, that's the main and biggest difference which makes it usable in any case === KaiL_ [n=KaiL@p548F65CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === theine [n=theine@c224152.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel === ubijtsa2 [n=anders@213.208.70.150] has joined #kubuntu-devel [02:25] Riddell: ping [02:27] freeflying: hi [02:27] Riddell: need review on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2086 [02:28] freeflying: busy just now, poke raphink, Tonio_. or I'll do it later [02:34] freeflying: argh, have to move.... [02:34] I will revu in about an hour, not more [02:34] Tonio_: ok === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #kubuntu-devel === mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #kubuntu-devel [02:59] hello [03:00] anyone can relate http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=122829 ? [03:00] seems that 64bit systems are somewhat fucked up === mornfall is tempted to close with "unfuck your system" [03:09] mornfall: adept starts up fine on my amd64 [03:09] from a recent live CD [03:09] interesting [03:09] freeflying had this problem too, i think [03:10] i can't seem to be able to track it down though (no amd64 machine) [03:10] mornfall: I can not use adept on ppc and i386 [03:10] aha, your amd box was not 64 [03:10] i got confused [03:11] but noone with intel observed this so far [03:11] as far as i can say [03:11] mornfall: ya, amd sermphon 2200+ [03:11] i am out of date on CPU technology [03:12] and specifically naming [03:12] i only know so much about sempron that it's an amd cpu [03:13] ya,you got it :) [03:16] I think that's like a celeron for amd [03:17] whatever [03:17] the thing is that it doesn't work === hunger [n=tobias@p54A6268D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel === faked [n=faked@83-65-251-242.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #kubuntu-devel === _spiritz [n=spiritz@61.12.41.143] has joined #kubuntu-devel === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel === amU is now known as amu === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #kubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel === hua [n=hua@222.50.182.247] has joined #kubuntu-devel [04:06] my AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2100+ which is 32bit has no problems === JRe [n=jre@pai34-2-82-226-199-36.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === freeflying-ibook [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.25] has joined #kubuntu-devel === OculusAquilae [n=oculus@p548D1EB2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel === tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #kubuntu-devel [05:20] Riddell: Are there any Ubuntu patches that've gone into powersave? [05:22] I'm trying to get an updated powersave to work on Kubuntu, though. [05:24] Got the patch. [05:36] sebas: no, I've not touched it [05:36] Riddell: I've got it already. [05:36] The init script needed to be changed. === Flosoft [n=admin@213.219.158.167] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Flosoft [n=admin@213.219.158.167] has left #kubuntu-devel [] === Flosoft [n=admin@213.219.158.167] has joined #kubuntu-devel === incinerator [n=incinera@82-41-24-164.cable.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #kubuntu-devel [06:12] Riddell: Is powersaved on Kubuntu used by more packages, other than kpowersave? [06:12] And what would be the chance of updating the packages (kpowersave, powersaved)? [06:12] sebas: no others. unlikely at this stage (UVF) [06:13] I'm testing powersaved 0.12 now, and it solves some problems for suspend2 users. [06:13] Hmm :/ === nlindblad [n=nlindbla@user179.217-10-120.netatonce.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [06:25] Riddell: powersaved now supports Ubuntu's powersave scripts aswell, isn't that a reason to poke people? :-) [06:26] sebas: It does? [06:26] sebas: Is it packaged yet? [06:26] I.e. kpowersave can use /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh [06:26] hunger: There's a package for .11, but we'd need .12 [06:26] hunger: I'm just writing an email with some explanation, want CC:? === hunger stares at his inbox... [06:28] kpowersave is way nicer then the klaptopdaemon. Would be really cool if we had that instead in kubuntu. === hunger is of getting some tea. === sebas agrees. [06:29] klaptopdaemon is basically abandoned by the developers, and kpowersave is also so much nicer. [06:29] Seeing your display going darker if you unplug the powercord is kewl :-) [06:31] sebas: that is interesting [06:31] sebas: writing a mail to whom? [06:32] It's come out of a discussion on userspace support of suspend to disk. [06:32] I'll CC: Kunbuntu-devel [06:32] thanks [06:32] And ubuntu-devel, for that matter. === m10l_ [n=michael@dslb-084-057-232-043.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === nlindblad [n=nlindbla@user179.217-10-120.netatonce.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === mbiebl [n=michael@dslb-084-057-232-043.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === theine [n=theine@c142099.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel === _Sime finds launchpad confusing to navigate. [07:48] _Sime: you're not the first [07:51] <_Sime> is there some kind of policy concerning closing out bug reports? [07:52] close them when they're fixed? [07:52] how do you mean? [07:57] <_Sime> fixed+confirmed fixed? or fixed when I think they *should* be fixed? [07:57] <_Sime> fixed when _probably_ fixed? === apokryphos [n=haris@host-87-74-2-200.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel [08:03] Riddell, did you read my post on kubuntu-devel about (k)powersave? [08:04] Would it be possible to add a Requires: powernowd | powersaved, apmd | powersaved ? [08:06] Would make it easier for people to try out and test powersaved/kpowersave === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Lure [n=luka@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #kubuntu-devel [08:14] And hello to all, btw. (my first post tu kubunt-devel) [08:15] hello mbiebl === faked [n=faked@83-65-233-159.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Lure [n=luka@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #kubuntu-devel [08:31] mbiebl: hi [08:33] _Sime: if it's only probably fixed then leave it at Confirmed until you know it's fixed [08:33] mbiebl: I've not had time to look at the powersave stuff, busy on espresso today [08:35] Riddell, I can happily offer my help in case you need it. [08:35] mbiebl: where would we add that requires? [08:36] The kubuntu-desktop meta-package [08:37] no, kubuntu-desktop is a definitive list, we can't put choices in it, the whole point is that we choose the items in it for you :) [08:37] mbiebl: are you a powersave devel? [08:38] I started with packaging it and now contribute to it on a regular basis. So sort of. I'm not part of the core team. [08:39] mbiebl, Riddell: I think it will be hard unless we decide that we replace klaptop as default [08:39] and even then we have an issue if user has both ubuntu and kubuntu-desktop [08:40] as ubuntu-desktop requires powernowd (with minimal g-p-m depending on it) [08:42] actually it does not require, but this is how they do CPU freq stuff [08:42] So there is no other way than to replace powernowd/apmd in kubuntu-desktop and to go with powersaved completely? [08:43] yes, but we still have an issue with ubuntu/edubuntu-desktop which can be installed on Kubuntu [08:44] Yes, we will have a conflict here, if ubuntu goes for powernowd/apmd/g-p-m [08:44] mbiebl: that is the fact - we cannot change it (nothing better exists for gnome AFAIK) [08:45] it's ok to have packages that conflict with ubuntu-desktop, that's not the end of the world [08:45] my hesitancy with going to powersaved is just that the shutdown scripts are completely different, if it could be made to use the same scripts that should be fine [08:45] Riddell: then it is just an issue of decision (hard after FF) and potential risks of new bugs [08:46] (however klaptop seems to be worse) [08:46] and yes, being after FF makes things harder of course === Riddell goes out [08:48] Well, klaptop is no match to the (k)powersave combo [08:49] mbiebl: I agree, but I have to admit that laptop support of ubuntu is good [08:49] mbiebl: yes, but I don't want to have different bugs in kubuntu than ubuntu, so we need to get kpowersave using ubuntu's pmi command or hal [08:49] I think Riddell's concern is that we may replace good with unknown [08:50] even though that kpowersave is great for my notebook ;-) [08:50] Well the hal callout script is a simple shell script that checks if pmi, powersave is available and leaves the work to them. [08:50] mbiebl: exactly, that's what I want :) [08:51] We could seamlessly use powersave (and its scripts) without ill effects. [08:52] and then when people say "ubuntu suspends but kubuntu doesn't" I wouldn't know where to begin debugging powersave's scripts [08:52] We could of course try to make powersave use the scripts of the acpi-support package. [08:52] Riddell: but this is currently anway the case due to klaptop bugs [08:52] :-( [08:53] But I don't know how much work that is. === dnlindbla [n=nlindbla@user179.217-10-120.netatonce.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [08:53] I only know, that the powersave scripts have been developed for several years now whereas the acpi-support scripts are rather new. [08:53] mbiebl: you can quickly do a major cut (replace everything) as I did for test [08:54] but this limits kpowersave to jsut fancy GUI [08:54] and then settings are not respected (screensaver...) [08:54] I am not sure if we can do it in a way that we would leave preparation to powersave [08:55] and just call pmi for last part (actual suspend/hibernate) [08:55] Hm, things like screensaver and locking the screen after suspend/hibernate are done by kpowersave (besides switching a profile, if you want to do that manually) [08:57] Everything else are simple callouts to powersaved. [08:57] And is handled there. [08:59] exactly, but if we replace calls to powersaved, then what is the use of it? [08:59] just CPU freq stuff? [09:01] You mean if we replace the scripts that powersaved calls on certain events? [09:01] (k)powersave should not notice that. [09:02] yes - that what Riddell would like to see [09:03] If we can map all scripts of powersave with scripts from acpi-support we should no loose functionality. [09:04] But I don't know if acpi-support has something like the set_disk_settings script where you can control the acoustic and power management of an IDE disk [09:04] no (AFAIK) [09:05] So we would loose functionality :-/ [09:06] My suggestion would be to go the scripts supplied by powersave. Otherwise you have a mix of acpi-support and powersave and if something does not work the situation is even worse [09:07] Is it a problem of powersaved or in the acpi-support scripts? Makes it even harder to debug imho [09:07] I would agree, but timing is bad (feature freeze), even though I think that kpowersave [09:08] is probably as good if not better than acpi-support+klaptop [09:08] (because klaptop sucks) [09:08] It's definitely better [09:09] One of the best features imho is that you can define and select different schemes. [09:09] E.g when you have a presentation and you are on batteries the display would normally go blank. [09:10] In kpowersave you can simply select the Presentation scheme and voila! There is nothing comparable out there. [09:13] what I think is important is that klaptop is not maintained, while kpowersave developers [09:13] In the end, Jonathan has to decide. I can only say, that I would suggest to use powersave and its supplied scripts and offer my help if there are issues. [09:13] show interest for other distribution support [09:13] I am concerned with pile of klaptop bugs that will need fixing... :-( [09:15] https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=klaptopdaemon [09:16] Whereas the powersave developer have great interest in other distributions using it. [09:16] and you are doing great job in getting proper debian base [09:17] They are very open for patches and suggestions. [09:17] Thx ;-) I do my best. [09:18] your as-is packages (just rebuild) work on Kubuntu (besides the dependancy thing) [09:18] We worked hard to remove all SuSE specific details and make it completely distribution agnostic. [09:19] Compared to 4 months ago, where I started working on it, it improved considerably. [09:24] Riddell: what if we push in latest versions (UVF) and then ask LaptopTestTeam to test [09:24] (manually remove apmd, powernowd) [09:25] If reports are positive (and enough feedback), we can make a switch, otherwise leave [09:25] and then do it in Dapper+1 on day one (to have enough testing) [09:26] Please also consider, that for Kubuntu you can remove my dbus_access.diff patch and remove the creation of the powerdev group from powersaved.postinst. [09:27] libpam_foreground should work with at_console="true". [09:28] why do you need this for debian? [09:28] In Debian, with have no pam_console (or comparable) module. [09:29] So I solve that with a special powerdev group. [09:30] This is in the latest version 0.12.0 and 0.12.1, older versions used the group "plugdev" for that which was not quite appropriate. [09:30] So we, the Debian Utopia Team, decided to create a new group for that matter. === infinitezeros [n=infinite@dialup-mum-203.94.233.233.mtnl.net.in] has joined #kubuntu-devel [09:32] hello === infinitezeros [n=infinite@dialup-mum-203.94.233.233.mtnl.net.in] has left #kubuntu-devel [] [09:34] Hmm, I ponder why kubuntu should use a '2nd' class powermanagement when kpowersave works: Work on kpowersave and decide before release if better than current status? [09:35] are that many people having problems with the current power program right now? [09:35] mbieble, Lure: You think you have time to work on this, in next weeks? [09:35] my laptop has never worked so good hibernate/suspend wise since i did a fresh install of dapper [09:36] jjesse: never really worked, and UI is bullshit [09:36] + IMHO of course [09:36] allee: all i know is that hibernate and suspend is working on a flight4 install of dapper [09:37] allee: I am new to debian packaging, I just have great interest for good laptop support [09:37] but sure I am willing to put my evenings into this (when kids are sleeping ;- [09:37] jjesse: if susp/hiber works at all is a mater of kernel support and workaround/hacks in acpi-support. If the knowledgebase of powersave scripts is bigger, the better. But I can't judge this [09:37] ;-) [09:38] Well a working STD and STR greatly depends on your hardware and the used kernel [09:38] i'm not an expert, all i know is if it works and if it doesnt :) [09:39] Lure: with pkging I can help. No problem. I just will not have the time for extented testing. Bug checking etc... [09:39] What powersave (and the acpi-support scripts) mainly do, is unmounting potential problematic partitions, unloading potential problematic modules. [09:39] (in case of powersave sending NetworkManger a signal to deactivate the network interfaces) [09:40] switching to console for problematic video chipset and then activating vi "echo mem > /sys/power/state" [09:40] mbiebl: Is there an uptodate (src/deb) repo for kubuntu (k)powersave? I would like to take a look ... [09:40] Thats all. [09:40] Well, I'm coming from the Debian camp [09:41] mbiebl: no problem ;) [09:41] I would have to look that the current version in Kubuntu is [09:41] Lure, ? [09:41] allee: I have just created Kubuntu packages out of mbiebels and they just work for me [09:42] mbiebl: kubuntu: kpowersave_0.5.2-1_i386.deb powersaved_0.11.2-1_i386.deb [09:42] I did not remove dbus patch as now suggested by mbiebel (I did not understand the background) [09:42] Oh, the are pretty outdated already. [09:42] I use 0.5.8/0.12.0 [09:42] I'm about to upload powersaved_0.12.1 and kpowersave_0.5.9 the next days. [09:42] He, so I download oldcrap ... Cheching sid ... [09:43] allee: new version is quite improved (for example dual battery display) [09:43] mbiebl: are they only on your harddisk or is the a svn or whatever repo? [09:43] I don't know the mechanisms of (K)ubuntu exactly. I just know that the MOTU team has taken my packages and released them for (K)ubuntu [09:44] allee: I just pick up the source here [09:44] http://www.teco.edu/~biebl/debian/dists/unstable/main/source/ [09:45] Lure, yes that's my private devel repos where I upload my own version before they are uploaded to the unstable archive. [09:45] downloading ... [09:46] Lure, do you know how is responsible for the current package in the Kubuntu archive? [09:46] mbiebl: do you have 0.5.9 already "around the corner"? [09:46] Yes, I'm about to upload it tonight. [09:46] Do not know who did it - I am not MOTU and do not know how to check this [09:47] only mbiebl is mentioned in packages [09:47] We could use the Replaces/Provides trick for the Kubuntu packages. So people could test it without uninstalling the kubuntu-desktop metapackage. [09:48] (k)powersave is in universe so the group of MOTUs is responsible ... === allee adds them to my bugwatch ... [09:49] allee, what does that mean. Who takes care of recompiling it or is this some kind of semi automatic? [09:49] mbiebl: universe is managent my volunteer called MOTU. [09:50] mbiebl: yeah, semi automatic. [09:50] So anybody in the MOTU team can upload a new revision? Not necessarily always the same on? [09:50] mbiebl: I think so - but they review them upfront on revu system [09:51] http://revu.tauware.de/index.py [09:51] you need support of others and now also exception for UpstreamVersionFreeze [09:52] You mean for getting (k)powersave into Dapper. [09:53] for getting new version from upstream (being Debian/or original maintainer) [09:54]