[12:24] <jdub> hrm, every time i open a terminal, i get the sudo reminder
[12:30] <doko> jdub: did you touch gdm? I get an infinite loop on boot, gdm crashing with a graphical message: "The greeter application appears to be crashing. Attempting to use a different one" but there is no different one ...
[12:31] <jdub> doko: hmm, might be a weird interaction with the u-a update?
[12:31] <jdub> doko: it works for me, so i'll have to look into it
[12:31] <jdub> doko: got any log action?
[12:33] <doko> jdub: just in syslog: gdm: failsafe dialog failed
[12:33] <jdub> interesting
[12:33] <jdub> so not only did the greeter fail
[12:34] <jdub> but failsafe failed too
[12:35] <doko> hmm, seb128 did the last upload
[12:38] <jdub> can you paste me the output of dpkg -L ubuntu-artwork | grep gdm ?
[12:39] <olemke> doko, maybe it has to do with the latest libgtk? it crashes for me in _gtk_get_libdir with every app
[12:40] <doko> olemke: ouch, that would be my upload :-/
[12:40] <olemke> doko, right :)
[12:43] <jdub> keybuk is using grease lyrics in his changelogs...
[12:44] <dotwaffle> I use foreign swearwords in my comments - "Credo di essermi sporcato i pantaloni" appears quite a lot ;)
[12:56] <sdquinn> i heard a rumor that in the future ubuntu may rid itself of ndiswrapper.
[12:56] <sdquinn> is that plausible?
[12:57] <dotwaffle> plausible, yes, likely, no.
[12:57] <Burgwork> sdquinn, if and only if all cards work ootb
[12:57] <Burgwork> sdquinn, so getting rid of ndiswrapper would be a good thing for users, not a bad one
[12:59] <dotwaffle> I think the great thing about Ubuntu is the fact that it sticks to its principles when it comes to binary drivers - will not ship with them. It's basically a middle finger up approach to the issue. And by god, it works!
[01:00] <Burgwork> dotwaffle, binary drivers are also a major nightmare to debug
[01:01] <dotwaffle> not just a nightmare to debug, it also lessens the core message that they're trying to get across. Bug #1 and all that ;)
[01:01] <Ubugtu> malone bug 1 in Ubuntu Dapper "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[01:01] <jdub> dotwaffle: we do ship binary linux drivers, in addition to ndiswrapper.
[01:02] <dotwaffle> jdub: However, they are not activated by deafult, you have to explicitly turn on the restricted repo.
[01:02] <jdub> dotwaffle: restricted is on by default, and lrm is installed by default.
[01:02] <dotwaffle> which is not exactly noob-friendly. It's only people who have ither technical knowledge and/or debian experience that are likely to play with that.
[01:03] <dotwaffle> jdub: Is it? I swear mine wasn't...
[01:05] <mez> has anyone done an apt-get upgrade within the last 10 mins?
[01:05] <mez> all my gnome apps are segfaulting
[01:05] <jdub> yeah, mine too
[01:05] <jdub> uh oh :-)
[01:06] <mez> KDE apps are fine
[01:06] <mez> who cocked up ?
[01:06] <Unfrgiven> mez: yeah and gdm doesn't even start
[01:06] <Unfrgiven> mez: did you get a post-install script seg fault when upgrading libpango?
[01:07] <jdub> seems everything gets into a massive uname lookup loop
[01:07] <_rich> using kubuntu breezy. noticed that /dev is mounted with ramfs (using udev). why using ramfs and not tmpfs like other distros?
[01:07] <jdub> Unfrgiven: that's probably a result of whatever has happened, not a cause
[01:07] <Unfrgiven> jdub: fair point.
[01:08] <jdub> so what's at the bottom of the stack here
[01:08] <jdub> we've got pango
[01:08] <_rich> is there an advantage to using ramfs for /dev over tmpfs for /dev?
[01:08] <dholbach> olemke doko, maybe it has to do with the latest libgtk? it crashes for me in _gtk_get_libdir with every app
[01:08] <dholbach> doko olemke: ouch, that would be my upload :-/
[01:08] <dholbach> olemke doko, right :)
[01:08] <dholbach> half an hour ago
[01:08] <jdub> libgtk
[01:09] <jdub> dholbach: norty
[01:09] <jdub> dholbach: what did you change
[01:09] <jdub> ?
[01:09] <dholbach> jdub: <doko> olemke: ouch, that would be my upload :-/
[01:09] <jdub> what did you change?
[01:09] <dholbach> jdub: doko took over maintenance
[01:09] <dholbach> :-)
[01:09] <dholbach> all GTK bugs are his
[01:10] <dholbach> I think it was related to some ia32 stuff
[01:10] <jdub> the ia32 stuff?
[01:10] <jdub> yeah
[01:10] <jdub> boh
[01:10] <mez> doko: ping
[01:10] <mez> lol
[01:11] <mez> aha we have a gtk+ upload
[01:12] <doko> dholbach: it did work on amd64 :-)
[01:12] <Seveas> !lart doko
[01:12] <mez> lol
[01:12] <dholbach> doko: ah that's why I was happy on amd64
[01:14] <dholbach> 2.8.13-1ubuntu3 might make the world happy again
[01:15] <Seveas> hmm
[01:15] <Seveas> xterm is such a pain compared to gnome-terminal...
[01:15] <mez> dholbach: I hope so - now to wait for the buildds to pick it up
[01:16] <dholbach> hey seb128! :)
[01:16] <seb128> dholbach: re
[01:16] <dholbach> welcome back, seb
[01:18] <Seveas> woah endless recursion
[01:19] <ajmitch_> morning
[01:21] <doko> mez, dholbach: updated packages at http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/gtk/
[01:21] <mez> doko: did you not upload to ubuntu ?
[01:21] <doko> mez: uploads are source only
[01:22] <mez> doko: true - but wont the buildds pick them up any moment now ?
[01:22] <seb128> doko: having fun with gtk? :)
[01:22] <seb128> doko: you touched them you are maintainer now :p
[01:22] <doko> seb128: wanno upload GCC? ;-P
[01:22] <seb128> no, thank you :p
[01:23] <doko> seb128: btw, I know of packages which *end* on g ...
[01:26] <mez> nice
[01:26] <mez> liblaunchpad-integration-dev is remove with the new gtk package
[01:27] <seb128> what about lpi?
[01:27] <jdub> seb128: doko made iz gtk boog
[01:28] <mvo> doko: you started to maintain gtk?
[01:28] <jdub> this is why i only trust sebuild!
[01:28] <Seveas> woohoo, gtk works again 
[01:28] <seb128> Seveas: it was broken!?
[01:29] <Seveas> seb128, segfauts all over
[01:29] <Seveas> no gtk apps would start
[01:29] <seb128> is that a joke?
[01:29] <Seveas> no
[01:29] <TerminX> no
[01:29] <TerminX> it's not a joke
[01:29] <Mez> Seveas, lol - yeah but is that using dokos stuff ?
[01:29] <seb128> doko: stop touching GTK
[01:29] <Mez> or the stuff in ubuntu ?
[01:29] <TerminX> that's what those debs in doko's link are for, to fix it
[01:29] <Seveas> mez yes
[01:29] <Mez> lol
[01:29] <seb128> grumpf
[01:29] <Mez> it's still broken in ubuntu :D
[01:29] <Seveas> box*
[01:29] <Mez> waiting for buildds to pick up new build (which works)
[01:30] <Mez> It was interesting only being able to use kde apps :D
[01:30] <Mez> lol
[01:30] <Mez> not somethign I wanna do again though
[01:30] <seb128> doko: next time please send me a patch instead of breaking it, thank you
[01:30] <Mez> dont be mean ...
[01:31] <doko> seb128 never 'ugs me ...
[01:31] <seb128> Mez: breaking GTK is not really funny :p
[01:32] <seb128> doko: if you don't try stuff before upload I would really appreciate you sending a patch instead of uploading next time
 seb128!
 seb128: did you know, I was getting segfaults in every gtk application..
[01:33] <seb128> great, upstream going to like us now :p
[01:33] <mvo> three cheers to gtk
[01:34] <Mez> seb128, it may not be funny... but at least it's fixed and well... everyone makes mistakes
[01:35] <seb128> Mez: I usually run a new GTK for a day or so before uploading
[01:36] <Mez> seb128, he may have done so - but the changes worked on amd64 I believe
[01:36] <seb128> Mez: some packages should be tried before beeing randomly uploaded
[01:36] <seb128> Mez: when you do a such change you try on i386 too
[01:37] <doko> seb128: yep, tried, on amd64
[01:39] <seb128> grumpf
[01:40] <doko> even the i386 packages on amd64
[01:41] <seb128> you managed to broke it anyway, next time please send a patch for comment
[01:41] <seb128> doesn't hurt to have 2 people looking on a change before breaking gtk :)
[01:42] <Mez> seb128, yeah - cause then both people can be to blame ;)
[01:42] <doko> seb128: you should install kde as a fallback ;-)
[01:42] <seb128> doko: I didnt upgrade to your version of GTK :p
[01:43] <seb128> which is a better way to not break my box :)
[01:43] <dholbach> Xubuntu!
[01:44] <ajmitch_> dholbach: uses gtk+ as well, I fear
[01:44] <dholbach> oh yes, right
[01:44] <dholbach> damn
[01:44] <ajmitch_> which is why we need a desktop based on fltk
[01:44] <Mez> dholbach, yeah it does - I tried that to see if it was just a KDE problem
[01:44] <seb128> doko: what do you need to patch GTK for BTW?
[01:45] <dholbach> ajmitch_: wXubuntu :)
[01:45] <ajmitch_> dholbach: let's drop this now :)
[01:45] <doko> seb128: I told you ... ia32-libs-gtk. do you want to take that over?
[01:46] <seb128> doko: no, just trying to figure why we need those
[01:46] <seb128> openoffice?
[01:46] <doko> no, the one *ending* with g
[01:46] <doko> openoffice.orG
[01:46] <seb128> pong?
[01:46] <seb128> ah :)
[01:47] <mvo> doko: everyone knows that seb128 uses windowmaker at his box
[01:47] <doko> :)
[01:47] <seb128> mvo: shushhh
[01:47] <seb128> (it's a secret)
[01:47] <mvo> seb128: nothing you want your gnome friends to know ;) ?
[01:47] <doko> mvo: 'e is a *G*nustep fan ;)
[01:48] <seb128> mvo: exactly ;)
[01:48] <mvo> lol
[01:48] <ajmitch_> doko: btw are zope3 deps still waiting on some NEW processing?
[01:51] <doko> ajmitch_: just pending syncs
[01:52] <ajmitch_> maybe notok
[01:52] <ajmitch_> s/maybe not//
[01:52] <ajmitch_> :)
[02:06] <nictuku> mvo hi. Do you remember the NetworkWideUpdates spec?
[02:07] <mvo> nictuku: sure
[02:07] <mvo> nictuku: you intended to look at it, right :) ?
[02:07] <mvo> we talked about it a while ago?
[02:10] <nictuku> nice, I'm glad you remembered
[02:10] <nictuku> I'm working really hard on it
[02:10] <nictuku> You know, I didn't know anything about python then.
[02:11] <nictuku> it's working, by the way
[02:11] <mvo> have you setup a repository yet? or is that too early?
[02:12] <nictuku> A subversion repository is available, yes
[02:12] <nictuku> https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/nwu/wiki/
[02:12] <nictuku> But as I notice in the wiki, it's a pain to test it before we make deb packages for it
[02:13] <nictuku> *note
[02:14] <mvo> nice! I will checkout the code when I'm a bit more awake and have a look, it's really cool to see someone working on this :)
[02:15] <nictuku> It already "update", "upgrade", "install" and shows some interesting information about the clients: installed packages, pending upgrades, current repositories
[02:15] <Lathiat> i was jsut thinking about implementing such a thing yesterday
[02:15] <nictuku> I will be happy to hear from you then.
[02:15] <Burgwork> nictuku, a nice pygtk frontend would be nice too
[02:15] <Lathiat> need to convine the boss its good use of work time
[02:15] <Lathiat> :)
[02:16] <nictuku> Lathiat, you could help me out :-)
[02:16] <Burgwork> nictuku, but otherwise, very cool
[02:17] <nictuku> Burgwork, yes, that is a most! but it's not the time to it, yet. But I did consider it when developing the architecture
[02:18] <nictuku> I mean, web services-based administration tools
[02:18] <Burgwork> nictuku, ideally the pygtk interface would be on an admin workstation, not the server
[02:18] <nictuku> sure
[02:19] <nictuku> currently the administration tool talks to the database directly, but that is only a ugly but needed hack. Milestone1 is a prototype, actually
[02:21] <Burgwork> nictuku, very cool indeed
[02:22] <nictuku> really? :-)
[02:23] <Burgwork> nictuku, network wide stuff is sadly lacking in free tools currently
[02:23] <desrt> er
[02:24] <desrt> i just upgraded on dapper and firefox now segfaults on startup
[02:24] <desrt> anyone else?
[02:24] <Burgwork> desrt, gtk issue
[02:24] <desrt> k.  good to know it's known :)
[02:24] <Burgwork> desrt, been fixed, waiting for buildds
[02:24] <Lathiat> its always a gtk bug, poor seb128 :)
[02:24] <desrt> this one appears to be doko's fault :)
[02:24] <Burgwork> actually, this was doko
[02:25] <desrt> oh shit
[02:25] <desrt> everything segfaults on startup
[02:25] <desrt> hah
[02:26] <infinity> Oh, is that why gnome-screensaver just refused to let me back in and I had to kill it?
[02:26] <seb128> desrt: I would not break GTK that way
[02:27] <desrt> seb128; i did not blame you.  i know it's doko :)
[02:27] <Burgwork> desrt, nah, seb128 would find a more creative way to break it ;)
[02:27] <seb128> :p
[02:27] <jbailey> elmo, Znarl: ping?
[02:27] <desrt> Burgwork; he'd probably patch a new and intrusive dialog box with 8 buttons that pops up when you try to exit the application
[02:28] <desrt> [exit]  [suspend]  [^z]  [dump core]  [switch application]  [restart application]  etc
[02:28] <Burgwork> [piss off users] 
[02:28] <desrt> :)
[02:28] <seb128> ah ah
[02:29] <desrt> i knew this would come in handy some day :)
[02:30] <nictuku> mvo, when I needed a way to read the repositories information I saw your update-manager/python/aptsources.py, and then wrote https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/nwu/browser/nwu-agent/agent/misc.py "read_sources_list()". I think you'll like it too :-)
[02:33] <mvo> nictuku: I would like to get something like this in python-apt at some point
[02:34] <nictuku> btw, do you know if python-apt behaves well in other apt-able distros like Fedora and (?)Mandriva?
[02:35] <mvo> nictuku: it should, but I'm not sure if someone actually made packages for those distros
[02:35] <nictuku> hmm I see.
[02:36] <nictuku> If so, nwu is almost ready for them too hehe.
[02:55] <pitti> hello
[02:55] <ajmitch_> hey pitti 
[02:57] <Kamion> doko: done
[02:57] <doko> Kamion: ?
[02:58] <JaneW> ping: dholbach, doko,  infinity, hno73,   keybuk, lathiat, Mithrandir, ogra,  sivan ,Riddell -> #ubuntu-meeting
[02:58] <dholbach> here here!
[02:59] <Kamion> doko: 21:05 < doko> Kamion: please promote lib64asound2-dev and lib32asound2-dev to main, b-d's of gcj-4.1
[03:00] <doko> Kamion: thanks
[03:01] <JaneW> ping:  Mithrandir,  ogra,  sivan  - > meeting
[03:39] <carl_fk> currenty something passes -a to xchat-gnome when folloing an irc:// link -a is good for xchat, but not xchat-nome.
[03:39] <carl_fk> its logged: https://launchpad.net/products/firefox/+bug/31226
[03:39] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31226 in firefox "FF doesn't do irc:// correctly" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[03:39] <carl_fk> wondering who else should be told given that it isnt a FF problme
[03:39] <Kinnison> sladen: F24, says who?
[03:40] <JaneW> ogra: ping
[03:40] <Kinnison> sladen: hotkey-setup?
[03:42] <sladen> Kinnison: yes
[03:43] <Kinnison> sladen: that wasn't a questioning of your honesty, it was an enquiry as to what that is
[03:45] <sladen> Kinnison: the script on boot that detects the laptop type and remaps the vendor-specific crack keys to the standard ones in the kernel.  KEY_PRESENTATION, KEY_BATTERY, KEY_VIDEOOUT, KEY_ROTATESCREEN, KEY_VIDEOMODECYCLE are currently aliased to high Fkeys as they appropriate assignments available <255 
[03:46] <Kinnison> sladen: who chose the value for the battery key and how long ago?
[03:47] <sladen> Kinnison: either mjg59 or me.  it is a bit backed up as it's been waiting on a sync from debian for 3weeks
[03:47] <Kinnison> I see
[03:47] <Kinnison> okay, thanks
[03:48] <sladen> Kinnison: if you fancy getting upstream to assign the above 5 keys that are needed, that's be cool;  in case that doesn't happen, I guess go with standard ubuntu-aliases
[03:49] <Kinnison> well, userlevel apps just use the symbolic name (battery) so I guess it won't hurt to go with the ubuntu names. mjg59 was supposed to be looking at upstream but I don't know the timeframe on that
[03:51] <Burgundavia> Kinnison: the timeout for gpm dimming the screen is about 5 times too short
[03:51] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: please file a bug, it's 02:51 and I'll have forgotten you said that in the next 5 minutes
[03:51] <Burgundavia> Kinnison: ok
[03:51] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: also, suggesting a reasonable time would be good
[03:52] <Burgundavia> Kinnison: ok, will do
[03:52] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: thanks babe
[03:52] <Burgundavia> Kinnison: kisses
[03:59] <dholbach> night guys
[03:59] <Kinnison> night all
[04:00] <nictuku> dholbach, Kinnison, night
[04:05] <esac_> Hi, I am wondering how I can get traction on the following bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/pcsc-lite/+bug/32911 .. I really need it in order to even use linux and am willing to provide whatever information, debug, etc... 
[04:05] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32911 in pcsc-lite pcscd "Gemplus Smart Card Reader no longer works" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[04:16] <Kamion> mdz: is there anything in the list of Xubuntu promotions that you have a problem with? I'm about to start having a look through those with approved main inclusion reports
[04:24] <mdz> Kamion: I don't see them in the list anymore
[04:29] <Kamion> mdz: they're still in http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/anastacia.txt
[04:32] <jbailey> mdz: I don't think we've done the support review for any of the Xubuntu stuff yet.
[04:33] <jbailey> I'm not sure what it will mean for the commercial side.
[05:06] <Kyral> Uhh...is there a problem with the latest Updates to Dapper?
[05:06] <_lemsx1_> i was just going to say that artwiz-cursor is still broken (even though this is a well known issue and there is a patch for in in malone)
[05:07] <Kyral> I meant something stopping X from loading
[05:07] <Kyral> The updates to GTK?
[05:07] <Amaranth> Kyral: bad gtk
[05:07] <Amaranth> Kyral: very latest update fixes it
[05:07] <Kyral> why is your name blinking!
[05:07] <Kyral> lol
[05:07] <Amaranth> should be available already
[05:07] <Amaranth> i said your name
[05:07] <_lemsx1_> Amaranth: do you know what version fixes it?
[05:07] <Kyral> Amaranth: download in progress
[05:08] <_lemsx1_> 2.8.13-1ubuntu3 ?
[05:08] <Amaranth> _lemsx1_: yes
[05:08] <_lemsx1_> Amaranth: thanks ;-) i just upgraded ;-)
[05:10] <Kyral> Ahh thats better :D
[05:11] <Kyral> ty Amaranth
[08:05] <freeflying> Mithrandir: ping
[08:05] <Mithrandir> freeflying: pong
[08:06] <freeflying> Mithrandir: how can I set locale for dapper livecd 
[08:06] <freeflying> Mithrandir: use debian-installer/locale ?
[08:06] <Mithrandir> set it from the bootloader
[08:07] <freeflying> thx
[08:14] <siretart> infinity: re: gnome-screensaver: A workaround for that bug is to press  'alt-a' and move the mouse again
[08:17] <Burgundavia> siretart: is that hte bug that causes the screensaver to come on every 2 minutes?
[08:20] <siretart> Burgundavia: it is the bug that g-s-s looses focus so that the login screen doesn't appear
[08:21] <Burgundavia> siretart: oh, fun. that is a different one
[08:21] <siretart> Burgundavia: but very annoying and still in .92 :/
[08:22] <tepsipakki> siretart: I can't reproduce it :)
[08:22] <siretart> tepsipakki: here about 20% of every activation
[08:22] <tepsipakki> siretart: the bug that I reported lost focus so that the dialog opened but you couldn't type in it. that is fixed now
[08:23] <siretart> tepsipakki: in which version?
[08:23] <tepsipakki> since .91 I think
[08:24] <siretart> tepsipakki: I have 2.13.92-0ubuntu1 installed, and I say you the bug is NOT fixed yet
[08:24] <tepsipakki> but you say that the dialog doesn't appear ;)
[08:25] <siretart> right. the bug is that the dialog box doesn't appear. did I miss something?
[08:25] <tepsipakki> I mean.. is it the same bug? does upstream know?
[08:26] <siretart> tepsipakki: this is bug #29178
[08:26] <Ubugtu> malone bug 29178 in gnome-screensaver "password dialog doesn't have focus" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29178
[08:27] <tepsipakki> which I reported
[08:27] <tepsipakki> I think it is not the same
[08:28] <siretart> ah, your bug was about the dialog appears, bug you cannot type anything in it
[08:28] <tepsipakki> yes
[08:28] <siretart> good point. in this case, I'll open another bug
[08:28] <tepsipakki> upstream is _very_ active, you should contact them
[08:28] <tepsipakki> (or him)
[08:29] <siretart> tepsipakki: do you think #28202 fits the discription better?
[08:29] <siretart> tepsipakki: who is upstream?
[08:29] <tepsipakki> for starters, you can recompile g-s with debug-options, and send the errorlog to upstream
[08:30] <sivang> mornign all!
[08:31] <tepsipakki> siretart: William Jon McCann. File it on gnome bugzilla and he'll respond ;)
[08:31] <tepsipakki> and link to launchpad
[08:32] <tepsipakki> siretart: that bug might be it..
[08:36] <siretart> tepsipakki: okay, I closed #29178 now, and changed title for #28202. This should make it more clear
[08:37] <tepsipakki> siretart: yeah :)
[09:15] <pitti> Good morning
[09:17] <freeflying> hi pitti 
[09:18] <sivang> pitti: Morning martin!
[09:18] <sivang> hey freeflying 
[09:19] <sivang> pitti: what do you do when you want to singnal that a file in a package needs to be removed? you upload a new source ?
[09:19] <freeflying> sivang: hi
[09:19] <sivang> (in a source package, that is)
[09:23] <pitti> sivang: I don't understand - 'signal'?
[09:23] <pitti> hi freeflying 
[09:27] <sabdfl> elmo: still up?
[09:31] <dholbach> good morning
[09:32] <freeflying> dholbach: morning
[09:34] <sivang> pitti: err, sorry, when creating a debdiff, how can I make it such it will , when applied remove a file I desire to be removed?
[09:34] <pitti> sivang: ah
[09:34] <pitti> sivang: apply it with patch -E
[09:34] <pitti> hi dholbach 
[09:35] <dholbach> hey freeflying, hey pitti
[09:39] <sivang> pitti: but in the debdiff, it will still be there? I tried to create a debdiff for Chris Moore's fix  for flex (you are CC'd on the bug). He said we just need to drop skel.c from the source package, in order for it to be generated at build time.
[09:39] <freeflying> dholbach: may I request UVF now ?
[09:40] <dholbach> for something in main? universe?
[09:40] <freeflying> in main 
[09:41] <freeflying> scim-pinyin is 0.5.0 now , upstream is already 0.5.91 ,also has new feature 
[09:41] <dholbach> then you have to write a mail to mdz and Kamion and justify your case - it might help to attach a changelog diff and diffstat (like we do in Universe)
[09:42] <sivang> pitti: I created a debdiff for that and attached ot the bug report. not sure it's okay though.
[09:43] <freeflying> dholbach: got it,thx
[09:45] <pitti> sivang: that won't work, since the file is in the orig.tar.gz; don't worry, I'll fix it ASAP
[09:45] <pitti> sivang: (you have to remove the file in debian/rules, before building)
[09:45] <pitti> hey carlos 
[09:47] <sivang> pitti: ah okay, thanks. That's what I wanted to actually know - how to handle this situation.
[09:47] <sivang> pitti: I got the wrong impression you need to remove it from orig, but then figured it doesn't make sense since this has to represent the prestine copy right?
[09:48] <pitti> right
[09:48] <sivang> k, thanks.
[09:51] <carlos> pitti: morning
[09:52] <Kamion> scim-pinyin is in universe, not main (for the moment)
[09:52] <Kamion> although it's on anastacia's promotion list
[09:54] <dholbach> Kamion: does that mean you want the uvf exception to go through the motu uvf process?
[09:58] <freeflying> Kamion: dholbach that's mean scim-pinyin just go though motu VF process?
[09:59] <dholbach> freeflying: that's what I just asked. :)
[09:59] <freeflying> dholbach: :)
[10:13] <Zomb> I though Ubuntu porter would rebuild every package but it seems that nowadays the version is no longer changed so the filenames are identical with Debian's with different checksum... is that correct?
[10:15] <dholbach> Zomb: the file name of the package and the rebuilding are separate things. we get *source* packages and build them - some filenames are the same.
[10:17] <Zomb> dholbach: that is not what I asked. Do you _always_ change the version number or not? Because: different number, different filename, you know...
[10:18] <dholbach> no we don't
[10:18] <dholbach> Zomb: as i said: we import source packages
[10:18] <dholbach> Zomb: if we do changes over debian's source packages, we change the version
[10:19] <Zomb> so AFAICS your answer is: yes, we are creating Debian packages with identical filenames but different contents
[10:20] <Zomb> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=354925
[10:21] <dholbach> Zomb: you have to distinguish between source packages and binary packages
[10:21] <Zomb> dholbach: I have to, I do
[10:22] <dholbach> Zomb: but yeah, that sometimes happens.
[10:23] <Zomb> I am going to check the Packages files and file bugs
[10:24] <dholbach> Zomb: bugs on what?
[10:24] <Zomb> the incorrectly built packages?
[10:24] <dholbach> Zomb: they are not incorrectly built
[10:24] <dholbach> you just can't rely on filenames
[10:25] <dholbach> hello mvo
[10:26] <mvo> hey dholbach
[10:26] <dholbach> mvo: this might be a nice case for you to talk about: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=354925 - Zomb wants to file bugs for packages that have the same file name in debian and ubuntu but have different contents
[10:26] <Zomb> dholbach: I can, I did and this has been working for years now
[10:26] <fabbione> hmmmm
[10:26] <dholbach> because people were using binary packages and didn't rebuild the source
[10:26] <mvo> we shouldn't have those IMHO
[10:27] <mvo> oh
[10:27] <mvo> sorry
[10:27] <mvo> nor awake yet
[10:27] <dholbach> i have an interesting case: fabbione and I looked into a change in imake: this would result in hundreds of changed packages ,because of changed paths etc
[10:27] <fabbione> Zomb: no i think the problem is different...
[10:28] <dholbach> it's simply not a but in the package you're going to file a bug about
[10:28] <dholbach> s/but/bug
[10:28] <fabbione> Zomb: i am not sure how much you know ubuntu so you might excuse me if of some of the stuff i say is repetition
[10:28] <fabbione> Zomb: we do not import binary packages from Debian. Only sources.
[10:29] <fabbione> Zomb: now.. if we need to modify something in the source, this gets of course a different version
[10:29] <fabbione> Zomb: if the source is unchanged, it gets rebuilded and hit our archive.
[10:29] <fabbione> now
[10:29] <Zomb> fabbione: I do not know much about the internal workflow beyond of the usual things we see on conferences
[10:29] <fabbione> Zomb: ok.. i will try to explain, if it is unclear just ask me
[10:30] <fabbione> once the package is rebuilt *without* changes
[10:30] <Zomb> I guess I know what you do but I am not happy with it
[10:30] <fabbione> the md5sum of the binaries cannot match
[10:30] <Zomb> it is rebuilt and it changes the checksums of the package files
[10:30] <Zomb> yes
[10:30] <fabbione> exactly
[10:30] <fabbione> but the content is the same...
[10:30] <fabbione> if there are no source changes..
[10:30] <HrdwrBoB> effectively
[10:30] <fabbione> i am sure you get the point
[10:30] <Zomb> but AFAICS there were no conflicts untill dapper
[10:30] <HrdwrBoB> it's not "the same"
[10:31] <Zomb> sure. And I don't like it, I would need to rewrite some parts of apt-cacher
[10:31] <fabbione> Zomb: impossible.. because we did always rebuild from sources...
[10:31] <fabbione> there is no way a binary can have the same md5sum
[10:31] <Zomb> fabbione: but with changed version number, so different filenames
[10:31] <fabbione> Zomb: let's step back a bit
[10:31] <Zomb> I know, I know, even the slightes change (eg. other filesystem -> different space calc) will change the result
[10:32] <fabbione> if we do change the sources, we do change the version
[10:32] <fabbione> otherwise it stays as in Debian
[10:32] <fabbione> yeps.. as you say..
[10:32] <fabbione> but this has been always happening
[10:32] <Zomb> fabbione: that was my complaint - apparently the version is sometimes not changed
[10:32] <fabbione> from the first moment that we did open warty
[10:33] <fabbione> Zomb: do you have an example package that i can verify?
[10:33] <fabbione> if the package is synced from Debian automatically that error cannot happen
[10:33] <fabbione> if it is human error.. well..
[10:33] <fabbione> we can fix it
[10:33] <fabbione> somehow
[10:33] <Zomb> let me see
[10:34] <Zomb> ah, the first one: http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/net/apt-cacher
[10:34] <Zomb> not sure it has been rebuilt
[10:34] <Zomb> well, let me run a uniq check on Packages file and I will come back RSN
[10:34] <fabbione> sure
[10:36] <fabbione> (just ping me when you are done)
[10:38] <Kamion> freeflying: hmm, no, just run it past mdz and me
[10:39] <Kamion> Zomb: FWIW this isn't new, it's been like this since warty
[10:39] <Kamion> oh, fabbione already said that
[10:40] <fabbione> Kamion: ehehe
[10:40] <fabbione> Kamion: i have almost ready the first patch for partman for you to test
[10:40] <fabbione> Kamion: s/test/& and look/
[10:40] <Kamion> cool
[10:41] <fabbione> Kamion: it is still rough, but if we agree on the implementation, than i can move faster to give you the schema and we can workout eyecandy later on
[10:41] <fabbione> Kamion: do you have a netbootable i386 that you can use for it?
[10:41] <fabbione> (or vmware)
[10:42] <fabbione> or whatever
[10:42] <Kamion> I have a suitable test system, yes
[10:42] <fabbione> ok perfect
[10:42] <fabbione> just testing one thing and i will prepare a test image for you
[10:42] <Kamion> I can do the test image myself
[10:42] <Kamion> in fact it's easier for me if I do
[10:42] <Kamion> just a diff is fine
[10:42] <fabbione> Kamion: sure
[10:43] <fabbione> you will need to have a custom build of partman-auto only for the template
[10:43] <fabbione> otherwise you are good to go
[10:44] <Kamion> I'm used to working around that particular cdebconf deficiency
[10:44] <fabbione> yeps
[10:44] <Kamion> if you don't mind editing random postinsts on the fly it's possible to deal with that without building a custom image
[10:44] <fabbione> works.. 
[10:44] <fabbione> oh i also added multiline support :)
[10:44] <Kamion> i.e. edit /var/lib/dpkg/info/load-cdrom.postinst and make it udpkg -i /tmp/*.udeb at the end
[10:44] <Kamion> in what?
[10:45] <fabbione> surprise ;)
[10:45] <Kamion> fabbione: do you mean you're sending multi-line debconf commands?
[10:46] <fabbione> no
[10:46] <fabbione> still single line
[10:46] <fabbione> but we can show more info on multiline
[10:46] <Treenaks> multi-line text entry widgets in debconf?
[10:46] <Kamion> erm
[10:46] <Kamion> I hope not, that will royally confuse espresso
[10:46] <Kamion> fabbione: I thought we agreed on a different approach
[10:46] <Kamion> well, I'll look at what you have
[10:46] <fabbione> Kamion: we can make that espresso/d-i specific
[10:47] <fabbione> Kamion: i am still playng around to explore all the possibilities
[10:47] <fabbione> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/pa.diff
[10:47] <fabbione> have fun
[10:47] <fabbione> it is hacked to show menus even with one disk only
[10:47] <fabbione> i need that for testing
[10:47] <Zomb> fabbione, Kamion: okay, forget it, there are hundreds of such packages
[10:48] <fabbione> Zomb: no problem..
[10:48] <Kamion> Zomb: every package that is source-unmodified from Debian will be like that
[10:48] <Zomb> Kamion: sure
[10:48] <Zomb> I just assumed this version-renaming has been one of the key strategies to make the difference clear in the filename
[10:49] <Kamion> no, the addition of "ubuntuX" to versions denotes source changes
[10:50] <Kamion> we discussed the situation with binaries way back in the day, and concluded that changing the filenames for even unmodified packages would be a grossly excessive amount of work given that apt doesn't care
[10:51] <fabbione> Kamion: the only 2 things that work there are "Use biggest free space" and "custom". The menu when you select one specific device is the next step.
[10:51] <Kamion> fabbione: $(($num_devices + 1)) is cheaper than $(expr $num_devices + 1)
[10:51] <fabbione> oh that was it..
[10:51] <fabbione> i couldn't rememberit
[10:51] <Zomb> ok, Now it has hit me and I need a workaround. Of course the appearence of this problem was just a question of time, since people are free to push different debs with the same names into the world
[10:52] <Kamion> indentation of the 'while [ -z "$targetdevice" ] ; do' loop is confusing
[10:52] <fabbione> Kamion: i know.. i just hacked that up..
[10:52] <fabbione> as i said it's rought.. tell me if you like the output
[10:52] <fabbione> i will cleanup later..
[10:52] <Kamion> ugh - are you going to keep the automatically_partition/... scripts in the long run?
[10:52] <Kamion> please say yes
[10:53] <fabbione> yes
[10:53] <fabbione> there is only one we need from there
[10:53] <fabbione> iirc
[10:53] <fabbione> yes
[10:53] <Kamion> I don't see why the others cannot be kept with a slightly different interface
[10:54] <fabbione> i don't think we have any use of them, but yes i can slam them back
[10:54] <fabbione> that's the less of the pain
[10:54] <Kamion> we certainly do
[10:54] <Kamion> the "Erase entire disk" option still makes sense, for example
[10:55] <fabbione> i am not sure that having 3 scripts to do autopatiton $dev is worth, but yes sure..
[10:55] <Kamion> I would like initial_auto to still use those scripts if at all possible, rather than merging their content into initial_auto
[10:55] <fabbione> it's not really possible...
[10:55] <Kamion> simply to minimise the complexity of the diff we have to carry forward
[10:55] <fabbione> some of them have different meaning now
[10:55] <fabbione> i know what you mean
[10:55] <Kamion> I don't believe that some_device's meaning has changed drastically
[10:55] <fabbione> no, but big_free yes for example
[10:55] <Kamion> and custom is surely still custom
[10:56] <Kamion> biggest_free should mean "biggest free space on this disk"
[10:56] <fabbione> yes but it is not the same as when you show it from the main menu
[10:56] <Kamion> that's the obvious meaning and it's still useful
[10:56] <fabbione> we didn't have it before..
[10:56] <Kamion> I realise that
[10:56] <fabbione> we only had one biggest_free
[10:56] <fabbione> yeah sure
[10:57] <fabbione> let me get to the menu per hd
[10:57] <fabbione> and i am pretty sure some stuff will come back
[10:57] <Kamion> but going with this mpt-style disk selector, it makes sense for those operations to be disk-specific
[10:57] <fabbione> right now i need to move one step at a time to avoid mass nuclear reactors detonation
[10:57] <fabbione> this stuff.. is hmmm.. delicate? :)
[10:58] <Keybuk> yes, please don't make it rain fabbione-kibbles down on us
[10:58] <Kamion> aside from that, the general structure looks ok
[10:58] <Kamion> I assume you only took /var/lib/partman/initial_auto out temporarily
[10:58] <fabbione> Kamion: fire it up with a device that has some free space
[10:59] <Kamion> my test machine is a bit occupied with other stuff right now
[10:59] <fabbione> Kamion: not really.. i still need to see the point of it with the new menu interface
[10:59] <Kamion> the point is that when you back out to the installer main menu and go back to partman, it's supposed to take you straight back to the advanced partitioner
[10:59] <Kamion> on the basis that you already declined the automatic partitioning
[11:00] <fabbione> than you have a problem when you go advanced and select "Guided partitioner" again
[11:00] <fabbione> but that perhaps just how the code is arranged now
[11:00] <Kamion> I don't see why? IIRC that bypasses initial_auto
[11:00] <fabbione> and could be fixed
[11:01] <fabbione> yes calling directly the debconf quesion
[11:01] <Kamion> initial being, well, initial
[11:01] <fabbione> but that doesn't have the code to understand the answer
[11:01] <netstar> Does Dapper include a GUI installer?
[11:01] <Kamion> fabbione: yes, you'd need to adapt partman-auto/choose_partition/auto/do_option too
[11:01] <netstar> ppc does not I noticed, but heard some talk about it
[11:01] <Kamion> netstar: it includes a GUI live CD-based installer
[11:02] <Kamion> netstar: powerpc certainly does
[11:02] <Kamion> on the live CD
[11:02] <netstar> Ah ok
[11:02] <Kamion> it doesn't quite work right for powerpc yet, but that's fairly easily soluble
[11:02] <fabbione> Kamion: yes.. that's why i mentioned "core arrangement"
[11:02] <netstar> You on ppc kamion?
[11:02] <Kamion> netstar: typing on one
[11:02] <netstar> :)
[11:02] <fabbione> meh  make that code
[11:03] <netstar> okay thanks, was the wrong channel window to ask...
[11:06] <tepsipakki> Kamion: is "kbd-chooser/method" valid anymore? Can't find it from the sources, nor has it worked for me
[11:07] <Kamion> tepsipakki: should be
[11:07] <Kamion> there's a bug about kbd-chooser preseeding being b0rken though
[11:08] <Kamion> ./debian/kbd-chooser.templates-in:42:Template: kbd-chooser/method
[11:08] <tepsipakki> ok, will check
[11:08] <Kamion> is certainly in there
[11:08] <tepsipakki> hmm, not upstream
[11:08] <Kamion> no, that one's never been upstream
[11:09] <tepsipakki> ok.. the ubuntu version is not publicly available?
[11:09] <Kamion> eh?
[11:09] <Kamion> it's in the Ubuntu archive like everything else?
[11:09] <tepsipakki> svn
[11:09] <Kamion> apt-get source kbd-chooser
[11:09] <Kamion> there's no revision control for it
[11:09] <tepsipakki> yes yes ;)
[11:09] <tepsipakki> ok
[11:10] <Kamion> kbd-chooser/method was part of Matthias Urlichs' work on the keymap guess widget
[11:10] <Kamion> upstream, you need to know your keymap architecture and use console-keymaps-at/keymap etc.
[11:10] <tepsipakki> yes, that works
[11:10] <Kamion> some of the kbd-chooser/method code is a bit problematic though, which is why it hasn't yet gone upstream - we've been gradually merging bits and pieces to make the diff less painful
[11:11] <tepsipakki> I'll try to read it..
[11:14] <netstar> Kamion what machine you running?
[11:15] <fabbione> Kamion: testing all the changes you asked for :)
[11:15] <netstar> It's just I found a semi-bug in the kernel for ppc
[11:16] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'm somewhat tempted to rewrite significant parts of kbd-chooser.
[11:16] <Kamion> netstar: 15" albook, a couple of years old
[11:16] <Kamion> Mithrandir: post-dapper? :)
[11:16] <netstar> windfarm as modules have NO effect on this imac G5.  I haven't modularised another kernel but with 2.6.16-rc5 built in, the code works and fan control also works
[11:16] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yes. :-)
[11:17] <Mithrandir> Kamion: etch-ish, I think.
[11:17] <Kamion> netstar: I'm not a kernel hacker, sorry; best talk to BenC (who has a G5, I believe)
[11:17] <Kamion> or just file a bug on linux-source-2.6.15
[11:17] <netstar> BenC, you around?
[11:19] <tepsipakki> there's no "mydebconf_get" or similar in kbd-chooser
[11:20] <Kamion> kbd-chooser (1.20ubuntu3) dapper; urgency=low
[11:20] <Kamion>   * Get rid of mydebconf_get, since it's very insecure (uses strcpy onto a
[11:20] <Kamion>     buffer of unknown size).  This should also cut our memory requirements
[11:20] <Kamion>     a tiny bit.
[11:20] <Kamion> why are you looking for it?
[11:20] <Mithrandir> tepsipakki: mydebconf_ask is slightly less insane.
[11:20] <tepsipakki> I'm just trying to figure out why it ignores a preseeded setting ;)
[11:21] <Mithrandir> tepsipakki: oh, you're trying to preseed kbd-chooser?  That's tricky. :-)
[11:21] <tepsipakki> but documented ;)
[11:21] <Mithrandir> tepsipakki: I'm slightly scared of fixing it further, because it's so extremely brittle
[11:23] <tepsipakki> if so, maybe the installation-guide should be fixed?-)
[11:23] <Kamion> no, we have to fix kbd-chooser/method preseeding
[11:23] <Kamion> there's no way around that
[11:24] <Kamion> (or replace it with a different preseedable question if for some reason fixing kbd-chooser/method is impossible)
[11:25] <Kamion> python's set type is great
[11:26] <Kamion>         difference = live_packages - desktop_packages - apt_installed
[11:35] <fabbione> Kamion: yeps.. new pa.diff for you with all the changes you asked...
[11:38] <Kamion> +partman_newworld
[11:38] <Kamion> there's a package called partman-newworld ;-)
[11:38] <Kamion> could you make that newlayout instead of newworld?
[11:39] <fabbione> Kamion: sure...
[11:39] <fabbione> i called it newlayout.. in the beginning.. but i didn't like it :P
[11:40] <Kamion> that looks nicer
[11:40] <Kamion> you should just be able to call /lib/partman/automatically_partition/biggest_free/do_option $bigfree instead of replicating it
[11:41] <Kamion> +       custom:)
[11:41] <Kamion> that looks like a typo, stray colon?
[11:41] <fabbione> nope.. that is correct
[11:41] <Kamion> really? ok
[11:41] <Kamion> could do with a comment then
[11:41] <fabbione> it's the way the RET is parted 
[11:41] <fabbione> parsed
[11:41] <fabbione> yeah i can fix it easily...
[11:41] <fabbione> right now i am trying to get stuff to work
[11:42] <fabbione> and autosustain themself :)
[11:42] <Kamion> otherwise looking pretty good, modulo my not having tested it
[11:42] <fabbione> that's what i care the most..
[11:42] <fabbione> (look at the UI)
[11:44] <Kamion> ok, will do so once I finish off my current piece of work
[11:48] <dholbach> hey seb128!
[11:48] <seb128> hi
[11:49] <fabbione> Kamion: sure.. new cleaned up patch as you requested Espresso All Mighty
[11:49] <freeflying> Kamion: the d-i of flight-4 still can not display chinese fonts correctly
[11:50] <Kamion> fabbione: :-)
[11:50] <Kamion> freeflying: is there a bug filed about that?
[11:51] <freeflying> Kamion: ya
[11:51] <Kamion> freeflying: bug number?
[11:51] <freeflying> Kamion: just a moment
[11:53] <freeflying> Kamion: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/bterm-unifont/+bug/31722
[11:53] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31722 in bterm-unifont "some Chinese fonts can not be displayed  when I insdtalled dapper-install-powerpc using 20060213's iso" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[11:54] <Kamion> freeflying: ok, I'll have a look
[11:58] <Kamion> freeflying: ah, I see the reason, will fix
[11:59] <freeflying> Kamion: cool  :)
[12:06] <freeflying> Kamion: will ttf-arphic-uming and ttf-arphic-ukai be in ubuntu's install cd
[12:07] <Kamion> I have no idea; I have not been involved in those discussions
[12:07] <Kamion> if they're included in the desktop seed, they'll be on the CD
[12:08] <doko> Kamion: I think we can unleash the new OOo binaries
[12:22] <freeflying> Kamion: they are in kubuntu-desktop's seed now
[12:22] <freeflying> doko: dose new OOo  fix #5981
[12:23] <Kamion> freeflying: then they will be on Kubuntu CD images
[12:24] <freeflying> Kamion: I know , how about ubuntu ? 
[12:25] <Kamion> freeflying: they're not in the Ubuntu seeds
[12:25] <Kamion> freeflying: this is not really anything to do with me - I just arrange for CD images to be built out of whatever the seeds say to put in them
[12:25] <freeflying> Kamion:  :)
[12:26] <freeflying> Kamion: then whom shall I poke 
[12:28] <Kamion> freeflying: weren't you talking with pitti about it before?
[12:29] <freeflying> Kamion: y, he told me that need cd space for them 
[12:29] <Kamion> what's the size diff?
[12:31] <pitti> Kamion: in the order of 10 MB IIRC
[12:31] <Kamion> ouch
[12:32] <Kamion> is there anything that can be done about that? that seems like an awful lot for fonts
[12:32] <Kamion> freeflying: we could have avoided some confusion if you'd told me more from the start rather than parachuting me into the middle of the discussion and assuming I knew all about it
[12:33] <Keybuk> seb128: weird...
[12:33] <Keybuk> (totem:11982): GStreamer-CRITICAL **: gst_segment_clip: assertion `segment->format == format' failed
[12:33] <Keybuk> seen that before?
[12:33] <seb128> no
[12:34] <seb128> when does that happen?
[12:34] <arp> yep
[12:34] <arp> I've been it
[12:34] <arp> *seen it
[12:34] <Keybuk> seb128: trying to play an mp3 file
[12:34] <seb128> arp: did you file a bug?
[12:34] <arp> You're missing libmad
[12:34] <Kamion> pitti: do I understand correctly that these supersede the existing ttf-arphic-*?
[12:34] <dholbach> gnome bug 331323
[12:34] <pitti> Kamion: AFAIK yes
[12:34] <Keybuk> arp: ? /usr/lib/libmad.so.0.2.1
[12:34] <Ubugtu> gnome bug 331323 in gst-ffmpeg "[ffdec_mp3]  crashing while playing mp3" [Critical,New]  http://bugs.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331323
[12:34] <pitti> freeflying: see Kamion's question ^ ?
[12:34] <Kamion> bkkai00mp, bsmi00lp, gbsn00lp, gkai00mp
[12:34] <arp> gstreamer plugins built against libmad
[12:35] <freeflying> Kamion: we wnana use ttf-arphic-uming ttf-arphic-ukai replace those chinese fonts in main now 
[12:35] <freeflying> pitti: y
[12:35] <arp> It's a gstreamer/libmad issue.
[12:35] <dholbach> gst-ffmpeg
[12:35] <seb128> Keybuk: do you have gst-plugins-ugly0.10 ?
[12:35] <arp> ty
[12:35] <Kamion> I make the size difference 6.8MB
[12:35] <seb128> Keybuk: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly rather
[12:36] <Kamion> freeflying: do they have much better coverage, or do they look better, or what?
[12:36] <Kamion> "wanna" isn't *traditionally* justification ;-)
[12:36] <freeflying> Kamion: because look better
[12:36] <Keybuk> seb128: ah, no
[12:36] <Kamion> doko: not ignoring you BTW, just takes a while to process these
[12:36] <freeflying> Kamion: also coverage more 
[12:37] <Keybuk> whatever happened to "You don't have the plugin to decode this" ? :)
[12:37] <seb128> Keybuk: and you do have gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg?
[12:37] <Keybuk> I know nothing says "I love you" like a core file ... but still
[12:37] <arp> Keybuk, good question.
[12:37] <seb128> Keybuk: it tries using the ffmpeg decoder which is bugged I think
[12:37] <arp> plugins-bad (built with libmad support) will work
[12:37] <seb128> arp: no need of that, -ugly does mp3 just fine
[12:37] <Kamion> I think we can probably afford 6.8MB as things stand, given the number of Chinese speakers in the world
[12:38] <Kamion> pitti: could you make that seed change?
[12:38] <doko> Kamion: the openoffice.org-qatesttool is a source NEW, unrelated, but would be nice anyway
[12:38] <Kamion> I'm busy trying to figure out why on earth gcj-4.1/i386 landed in NEW
[12:38] <seb128> Keybuk: does installing it fixes the issue? Did you have gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg before?
[12:38] <sivang> mvo: hi
[12:39] <pitti> Kamion: sure
[12:39] <Kamion> pitti: you could do it by merging r258 from the kubuntu seeds
[12:39] <doko> Kamion: libgcj-doc
[12:39] <Keybuk> seb128: dunno, apt is running now
[12:39] <Keybuk> will tell you in ~2 mins
[12:39] <freeflying> Kamion: and also edubuntu seed 
[12:39] <seb128> Keybuk: k
[12:40] <ogra> freeflying, how big is that ? 
[12:40] <ogra> edubuntu olny has some kilobyte CD space left
[12:40] <Kamion> freeflying: edubuntu is under much worse space pressure than the others
[12:41] <freeflying> ogra: about 5M extra space 
[12:41] <ogra> no way :(
[12:41] <Kamion> doko: oh, of course, thanks
[12:41] <Kamion> freeflying: 6.8M
[12:41] <freeflying> ogra: Kamion :)
[12:42] <freeflying> ogra: you'd help us for see native fonts better
[12:42] <Kamion> freeflying: there are physical limits here
[12:42] <ogra> if i'm really good, i can make 1-2M room, but that has very likely to be filled with docs 
[12:42] <Kamion> native fonts are no good if you physically can't burn the CD
[12:42] <Keybuk> seb128: what does -ffmpeg do that -bad/-bad-multiverse/-ugly/-ugly-multiverse don't do?
[12:42] <Keybuk> (something must have needed me to install it)
[12:43] <ogra> freeflying, note that edubuntu already defaults to 700MB isos
[12:43] <seb128> Keybuk: gst-inspect ffmpeg
[12:43] <freeflying> Kamion: anyway we'd solve that issue
[12:43] <ogra> there is simply no space 
[12:43] <Kamion> ogra: (so do the others now)
[12:43] <Kamion> freeflying: how?
[12:44] <ogra> oh, wow
[12:44] <seb128> Keybuk: it makes easier to watch your p0rn with totem-gstreamer probably :)
[12:44] <freeflying> Kamion: or we give you another font ? 
[12:44] <Kamion> freeflying: I don't understand
[12:44] <Keybuk> seb128: heh, most of my porn needs wmv v9
[12:44] <Keybuk> which is frustratingly difficult to decode without win64 dlls
[12:44] <dholbach> Keybuk: mine too :/
[12:44] <seb128> right
[12:44] <Kamion> freeflying: you say "we'd solve that issue". How? You say the issue is that we need these fonts, which are bigger, and won't fit on the Edubuntu CD images
[12:45] <freeflying> Kamion: we are working on new font , maybe new one will be small than thpse two 
[12:45] <freeflying> s/thpse/those
[12:45] <Kamion> freeflying: that would certainly be nice
[12:45] <Kamion> what kind of time are we talking about?
[12:46] <Kamion> we're past feature freeze already
[12:46] <freeflying> no more 2 weeks
[12:47] <sivang> mvo: are you doing any process spawning in g-a-i ? I'm interested to know how you keep the gui responsive, is checking if there are pending gtk events, and then gtk.main_iteration()'ing until no more events are waiting is enough?
[12:48] <Kamion> sivang: better to use gobject.io_add_watch()
[12:48] <Kamion> doing events_pending/main_iteration is no good if the process that's running the GUI is blocking while trying to read/write stuff from/to its subprocess
[12:48] <mvo> sivang: I create a worker thread that runs in the background and spawns the child. when it finishs it signals the gui
[12:49] <mvo> sivang: Kamion has a valid point, watch out for blocking read/write
[12:55] <sivang> Kamion: yes, I was already told about that, but I tried to keep the backend GUI agnostic, and glib/gtk free so it will be usable as a plain sell tool, but I guess there will ne no wait out of it. (pexcept does a really good job, but now I'm trying to solve a problem with a timeout expection when dar stays to long at adding a big file (for example, and avi file) and exceeds the timeout)
[12:56] <sivang> mvo , Kamion : thanks.
[12:57] <Kamion> sivang: add a frontend method that says "watch this fd in your main loop, whatever it may be"
[12:57] <Kamion> or use a thread as mvo suggests
[12:58] <sivang> the former acutally sounds very good , and is easily doable :)
[12:59] <Kamion> doko: all done
[12:59] <Kamion> doko: there's no openoffice.org-qatesttool in NEW
[01:00] <Kamion> doko: http://librarian.launchpad.net/1598452/zqv1jZFFOdlUOGa51KLGsunebkD.txt
[01:00] <Kamion> doko: please make any necessary adjustments to the seeds, if you haven't done so already
[01:01] <doko> Kamion: didn't get a reject
[01:01] <Kamion> doko: indeed not, soyuz bug
[01:02] <Kamion> well, launchpad-upload-and-queue
[01:04] <sivang> Kamion: will it work correctly with a child's pty fd?
[01:04] <sivang> (and not a "plain" fd)
[01:05] <Kamion> sivang: gobject only cares whether it becomes readable/writable/whatever
[01:06] <Soul_keeper> #linuxsociety  if you want ops jump in  
[01:06] <Soul_keeper> #linuxsociety  if you want ops jump in  
[01:06] <Soul_keeper> #linuxsociety  if you want ops jump in  
[01:06] <Soul_keeper> #linuxsociety  if you want ops jump in  
[01:06] <fabbione> Kamion: new pa.diff
[01:06] <Soul_keeper> #linuxsociety  if you want ops jump in  
[01:06] <Soul_keeper> #linuxsociety  if you want ops jump in  
[01:06] <sivang> Kamion: cool, thank you.
[01:08] <fabbione> Kamion: it should start to look more or less like mpt asked...
[01:08] <freeflying> Kamion: I just mail u the diffstat of scim ?
[01:08] <Kamion> freeflying: no, you don't
[01:09] <Kamion> freeflying: you tell me what you're asking for first
[01:09] <freeflying> s/scim/scim-pinyin
[01:09] <Kamion> freeflying: upstream changelog, not diffstat; and mail it to both me and mdz
[01:10] <freeflying> right
[01:11] <Kamion> fabbione: I suspect those assignments inside the while read_line loop won't work; doesn't it create a subshell and then you lose your variable assignments?
[01:11] <Kamion> fabbione: see resize_use_free which works around this by echoing out from inside the while loop and then parsing the output of the while loop
[01:11] <fabbione> Kamion: what part of the patch?
[01:12] <Kamion> +           while { read_line num id size type fs path name; [ "$id" ] ; }; do
[01:12] <Kamion> +               if [ "$fs" = free ]  && ! longint_le $size $mysize; then
[01:12] <Kamion> +                   mysize=$size
[01:12] <Kamion> +                   mypart=$dev//$id
[01:12] <Kamion> +               fi
[01:12] <fabbione> yes i pass them out later
[01:12] <Kamion> +           done
[01:12] <Kamion> you've already lost them by that point
[01:12] <Kamion> I suspect that the values of mysize and mypart will revert to their original values at the 'done'
[01:12] <fabbione> what file is that?
[01:13] <Kamion> because I believe that the inside of the while loop is executed in a subshell
[01:13] <Kamion> partman_newlayout
[01:13] <Kamion> also, about ten lines below that you have these printfs:
[01:13] <fabbione> it uses the same technique as the others
[01:13] <Kamion> +           printf "biggest_free: $mypart\t$RET\n"
[01:13] <Kamion> +       printf "custom: fakeoption\t$RET"
[01:13] <fabbione> they are all inside the loop
[01:13] <fabbione> already hitted my head there
[01:14] <Kamion> (a) when using printf you should use %s instead of variable interpolation to make sure that metacharacters in the variables aren't interpreted as format strings
[01:14] <Kamion> (b) the second printf is missing a \n
[01:14] <fabbione> (a) ok
[01:14] <fabbione> (b) no. it is the last print we do
[01:14] <Kamion> why not terminate with a \n anyway?
[01:14] <Kamion> less confusing in case somebody comes along later and adds something else
[01:14] <freeflying> Kamion: sent it 
[01:15] <fabbione> Kamion: done both..
[01:15] <Kamion> fabbione: all inside the loop> they aren't, the entire body of the relevant loop is as I pasted above, and then you use mysize/mypart outside that loop
[01:15] <fabbione> Kamion: they are in the same subshell
[01:15] <fabbione> it works :)
[01:16] <fabbione>     choices=$(
[01:16] <fabbione> [lot of code includeing mypart/myid] 
[01:16] <fabbione>     )
[01:16] <Kamion> it is common for while ...; do ... done to create a subshell for the second ...
[01:17] <Kamion> it certainly does for while read; not sure about { read_line ...; }
[01:17] <Kamion> anyway, just warning you that it's a possible issue to try to save you time in case that does turn out to be a problem
[01:18] <fabbione> well that's the same code i did steal from a similar thing...
[01:18] <fabbione> it was working there.. it's working here...
[01:18] <Kamion> ok, fair enough
[01:18] <fabbione> (a) and (b) updated
[01:18] <Kamion> ta
[01:19] <fabbione> i need some sleep now
[01:19] <Kamion> you need to do the same %s thing with $RET
[01:19] <fabbione> oh right
[01:19] <Kamion> printf "biggest_free: %s\t%s\n" "$mypart" "$RET"
[01:19] <fabbione> sec...
[01:20] <sivang> sabdfl: hey mark
[01:20] <fabbione> Kamion: updated.. 
[01:21] <fabbione> later
[01:21] <Kamion> fabbione: thanks
[01:22] <fabbione> Kamion: no problem. thanks to you
[01:22] <StevenK> So, when is moin (the binary package) going to be punted out of dapper? doko uploaded a version of moin that replaces the monolithic package
[01:24] <pitti> freeflying, Kamion: all seeds updated for new arphic fonts
[01:24] <freeflying> pitti: thx
[01:26] <Kamion> StevenK: package removal is broken at the moment, see https://launchpad.net/products/soyuz/+bug/32314
[01:27] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32314 in soyuz "remove-package.py pretends to work and then does nothing" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[01:27] <StevenK> Heh
[01:28] <StevenK> "I would very much like the Ubuntu archive not to be in Hotel California mode. :-)"
[01:28] <StevenK> Muahahaha
[01:29] <Seveas>  You can remove any package you like, but they never leave  
[01:34] <spiekey> hello!
[01:34] <spiekey> can i use the http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ as well if i want to build packages for ubuntu?
[01:35] <spiekey> is there a difference?
[01:35] <spiekey> do you have a own paper?
[01:37] <infinity> spiekey: We follow Debian policy (with perhaps a few very minor exceptions), so yes, the Debian New Maintainer Guide and Debian Maintainer's Guide are both good reading.
[01:37] <arp> Is /usplash_fifo necessary?
[01:38] <infinity> arp: Is it actually in / on your machine?
[01:38] <arp> yes
[01:38] <infinity> arp: If so, something very buggy and odd is going on.
[01:38] <arp> interesting
[01:38] <infinity> arp: Please file a bug, and I'll look at it later.
[01:38] <arp> Okay will do
[01:38] <infinity> arp: The file should be in /dev/.initramfs/
[01:38] <arp> it's there too
[01:39] <arp> well another one
[01:39] <infinity> Rephrase: It should ONLY be there. :)
[01:39] <arp> :) filing bug report now
[01:39] <infinity> I can't imagine how it's also ending up in /
[01:39] <infinity> Can you delete it and reboot and see if it comes back?
[01:39] <arp> sure
[01:39] <infinity> It may have been some weird transient bug long ago that created it...
[01:40] <infinity> (timestamps on the file would be nice if you haven't already deleted it..)
[01:40] <arp> lmao
[01:40] <arp> rebooting...
[01:40] <sladen> infinity: what's  ls -l /usplash_fifo give for the date (if you haven't deleted it)
[01:41] <infinity> sladen: s/infinity/arp/ and I assume he deleted it before I asked that.
[01:41] <infinity> sladen: (Are you lagged, or just confused?) :)
[01:42] <sladen> infinity: nah, just stupid :)
[01:43] <StevenK> infinity: Is it a feature that the progress bar for usplash_down goes backward?
[01:43] <infinity> StevenK: yes.
[01:43] <StevenK> Just seemed strange to me.
[01:43] <infinity> StevenK: That's very intentional, so you know that it's shutting down.
[01:43] <arp> she's gone
[01:43] <Mithrandir> I think it's very shiny.
[01:43] <infinity> StevenK: Try hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del halfway through booting.
[01:43] <infinity> StevenK: It's actually rather cool that it works.
[01:43] <StevenK> Heh
[01:44] <arp> infinity, no sign of that nasty pipe.
[01:44] <sladen> StevenK: I think sabdfl wants it normal-way, but with inverted colours
[01:44] <Keybuk> pitti: bug 33354, what do you think?
[01:44] <Ubugtu> malone bug 33354 in udev "no permission to use joystick" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33354
[01:44] <infinity> arp: Right.  If it comes back, then by all means, file the bug.  If it never does, I'll assume it was a one-time oddity and blindly ignore it. :)
[01:44] <arp> sounds good.
[01:44] <StevenK> Actually, the messages for booting are good, but they seem to be the usual message for the way down.
[01:45] <infinity> sladen: He asked for inverted colours, he didn't tell me anything about inverting the direction.
[01:45] <Mez> infinity, did you get Eugenes reply ?/
[01:45] <infinity> Mez: Yeah.  Sucks, but whatever.  It was a long shot.
[01:45] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, I don't have any experience with joysticks, but if the reporter noticed it, then some app probably reads from the device instead of from X
[01:45] <Mez> indeed it was
[01:46] <Keybuk> pitti: yeah, I thought they were supposed to go through X too
[01:46] <Keybuk> is there a group for the "user at the console" that isn't just "plugdev" ?
[01:46] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, depends whether we consider it a security risk to spy on or forge joystick events
[01:47] <infinity> sladen: Anyhow, both direction and colours are easy enough to play around with, so we can fiddle without wasting too much time to find the "sweet spot".
[01:47] <pitti> Keybuk: we don't have a group for 'at console', that doesn't work
[01:47] <ogra> cant we add users to "games" ?
[01:47] <ogra> and make that one own js0 ?
[01:47] <pitti> Keybuk: plugdev would work for me
[01:48] <ogra> i imagine there are quite some games using the device 
[01:48] <pitti> ogra: no
[01:48] <infinity> I don't see how joysticks are any more special than a USB mouse, eg.
[01:48] <pitti> ogra: doesn't games already exist?
[01:48] <ogra> pitti, yes
[01:48] <pitti> it's for sgid programs to write highscores
[01:48] <ogra> but no user is added to it 
[01:48] <infinity> They're essentially the same sort of device, with a different interface.
[01:48] <pitti> users shouldn't be in that group
[01:48] <pitti> infinity: but spying mouse events can be more security relevant than spying joystick events imho
[01:49] <pitti> at least if you assume that joysticks are only used for games
[01:49] <infinity> Unless you use a joystick as your mouse device (which I've seen done)
[01:49] <pitti> ok, that falsifies my assumption then :)
[01:49] <dholbach> pitti: you should patch adduser to insult the user as "cheater" if they add add users to the games group ;)
[01:49] <ogra> hehe
[01:50] <pitti> Keybuk: so, in the end, the games should just be fixed to read from X?
[01:51] <infinity> Almost certainly but how many games are we talking about here?
[01:51] <pitti> no idea
[01:51] <Keybuk> pitti: no idea
[01:52] <arp> things like zsnes and snes9x
[01:52] <infinity> For reference, in the static /dev world (on my woody machine, with a ./MAKEDEV-created /dev), /dev/input/js* are root:root, 660 as well.
[01:52] <infinity> So this isn't a new udev bug or anything.
[01:52] <pitti> Keybuk: btw, do you have any idea why some modules are not loaded any more with the latest kernel? (e. g. my pcspkr, or the 'floppy' module in a bug of mine)
[01:52] <Keybuk> pitti: because there's nothing to load them
[01:52] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, but that worked with the earlier kernel version
[01:52] <Keybuk> $ modinfo pcspkr | grep alias
[01:52] <Keybuk> $ modinfo floppy | grep alias
[01:53] <Keybuk> no mapping to hardware
[01:54] <Treenaks> Keybuk: isapnp floppies? 
[01:54] <Keybuk> pitti: random ... what's in /sys/bus/pnp/devices for you?
[01:54] <Keybuk> cat /sys/bus/pnp/devices/*/id
[01:55] <pitti>   /sys/bus/pnp/devices/ is empty
[01:55] <Keybuk> heh
[01:55] <Keybuk> I only get two devices in there
[01:55] <Keybuk> when I used to get dozens
[01:55] <pitti> but pnp, isn't that ISAish?
[01:55] <ogra> nope
[01:55] <Keybuk> pitti: yes
[01:55] <Keybuk> pnp == isa
[01:55] <ogra> err, what ? 
[01:55] <infinity> I've never seen a PCI floppy controller.
[01:55] <ogra> but i've seen pnp PCI cards 
[01:55] <infinity> Most machines with a floppy controller have a legacy ISA bus just for that.
[01:56] <Keybuk> ogra: no, you haven't
[01:56] <pitti> I banned ISA as well as floppies from my machines :)
[01:56] <infinity> ogra: No, PCI is plug and play by design, but not PnP.
[01:56] <Keybuk> infinity: and the serial interface :)
[01:56] <ogra> Keybuk, i have a PCI pnp isdn card here ...
[01:56] <Keybuk> pitti: then I hope you ripped out the ISA bridge <g.
[01:56] <Keybuk> ogra: no, you don't
[01:56] <zakame> evening all
[01:56] <ogra> Keybuk, yes i do :) its very old though ...
[01:56] <Robot101> ogra: PCI includes the autoconfiguration behaviour
[01:56] <Keybuk> ogra: no, you don't
[01:56] <pitti> Keybuk: no, it's still there, but I don't have any isa slots on the MB
[01:56] <Keybuk> ogra: trust me :)
[01:56] <infinity> ogra: PnP is a hack protocol used to make ISA behave sort of (but not entirely) like PCI.
[01:56] <Robot101> ogra: PnP is a hack to autoconfigure on ISA
[01:56] <pitti> Keybuk: probably really just for an optional floppy
[01:57] <infinity> ogra: PCI autoconfigures by design, so doesn't need said hack.
[01:57] <ogra> Keybuk, then its intresting that i need pnpdump/isapnp to get it working :)
[01:57] <pitti> that's probably just marketing speech :)
[01:57] <Treenaks> a PCI-to-ISA bridge on a PCI card?
[01:57] <Treenaks> OMG
[01:57] <ogra> i also have a PCI soundcard that needs isapnp ...
[01:58] <pitti> scary
[01:58] <infinity> Treenaks: Well, PCI-to-16-bit-PCMCIA (which was an ISA extension) is common, so why not PCI-to-ISA (though, ew)
[01:58] <ogra> they might be cornercases, but both exists...
[01:58] <Treenaks> ogra: german hardware... ;)
[01:58] <infinity> ogra: Both are ISA devices, regardless of the interface.  They have bridges on them.
[01:58] <mjg59> ogra: What sort of card?
[01:58] <infinity> (And, as mentioned: Eww)
[01:59] <ogra> mjg59, a taiwanese audio card, once been fully proprietary i need to dig it up for the name ...
[01:59] <ogra> and an old fritz PCI isdn card
[01:59] <sabdfl> StevenK, sladen: yup, just to be difficult :-)
[01:59] <sabdfl> normal way, inverted colours
[02:00] <sabdfl> can we put a one-pixel border around the usplash progress bar?
[02:00] <freeflying> pitti: is scim in ubuntu's seed
[02:00] <ogra> infinity, i agree but they both have PCI interfaces :) 
[02:00] <Keybuk> ogra: as infinity says, that means you have an ISA isdn card that just happens to be on a PCI-to-ISA bridge PCI card
[02:00] <Keybuk> it's not a "PCI pnp card"
[02:00] <Treenaks> \o/ More moviegotchi-fodder (my Ubuntu-using colleagues just 'volunteered'
[02:00] <spiekey> from the manual: http://pastebin.com/580031
[02:00] <Keybuk> I've hard of those
[02:01] <Keybuk> they're pretty rare though
[02:01] <Keybuk> most hardware companies prefer to put a PCMCIA card on a PCI-to-PCMCIA bridge
[02:01] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: just extend the background of the progress bar one pixel in all directions without expanding the filler?
[02:01] <Keybuk> which is just as evil
[02:01] <ogra> Keybuk, they are from the time when ISA dies and PCI was very young
[02:01] <ogra> *died
[02:01] <spiekey> in my case i havent got a source file. i only have a self written script.
[02:01] <spiekey> do i still tar it and follow the documentation?
[02:01] <Keybuk> ogra: indeed, I had a pnp sound card that fitted in a PCI socket
[02:02] <Keybuk> in fact, I still probably do in a box
[02:02] <Keybuk> but it's not a PCI sound card
[02:02] <infinity> sabdfl: We can border it, I'm not sure if I agree that it would look better at that point.
[02:02] <pitti> freeflying: no, just in supported for now
[02:02] <sabdfl> infinity: will ask artist to look at this during UI sprint, i just want to know if it's quick and easy to do if that's a yes
[02:02] <ogra> Keybuk, for the user who bought it as one and who plugged it into his mainboard it is ;) 
[02:02] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: it's easy to do.
[02:02] <infinity> sabdfl: Most of these changes are trivial, though, and I'd like to see some dapper splash artwork (AndyFitz promised me a full set for {X,K,Ed,}ubuntu) before we fiddle too much.
[02:03] <freeflying> pitti: it will be before releae ?
[02:03] <infinity> sabdfl: The border would just be part of the artwork.  Inverting colours and direction are trivial packaging/code changes.
[02:03] <pitti> freeflying: does it make sense without any modules?
[02:03] <Mithrandir> infinity: can we have small, marching penguins too? :-)
[02:03] <sabdfl> infinity: i'd lke to see the andyfitz stuff, we have a professional guy due to be around to help too, so the more we have up to date for him to look at the better
[02:03] <infinity> Mithrandir: Die.
[02:03] <dholbach> yay!
[02:04] <sabdfl> Mithrandir: lemmings-while-you-boot?
[02:04] <dholbach> sabdfl: oh yes, please!
[02:04] <Treenaks> sabdfl: ooh! with the wavy green hair!
[02:04] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: you haven't seen the SUSE boot screen? :-)
[02:04] <freeflying> pitti: it needn't module in install cd
[02:04] <infinity> sabdfl: Can you make that same request <points above> to my INBOX, and I'll bug Andy tomorrow after I've rested?
[02:04] <Keybuk> ogra: but we're above those users, and when we're talking about bus protocols and card types, we use the *right* terms :
[02:04] <Keybuk> :)
[02:04] <pitti> freeflying: I mean, does it do anything interesting without any module?
[02:04] <Keybuk> anyway
[02:04] <Keybuk> that was an entertaining tangent
[02:04] <freeflying> pitti: nothing
[02:05] <Keybuk> back to the more interesting problem that pnp support is broken
[02:05] <ogra> yeah
[02:05] <Keybuk> does anybody have anything much in /sys/bus/pnp/devices today?
[02:05] <infinity> sabdfl: Andy and I being (more or less) in the same timezone should make the bugging reasonably easy.
[02:05] <pitti> freeflying: hm, so what would be the benefit of having it in desktop?
[02:05] <zakame> hmm
[02:05] <infinity> On that note..
[02:06] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: 12 entries on vawad
[02:06] <Mithrandir> (but that's a hoary kernel, no idea if that's important)
[02:06] <ogra> mjg59, the card was from a company called aureal
[02:06] <Treenaks> ogra: Aureal Vortex?
[02:06] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: current kernel
[02:06] <ogra> yes, a very early one  ... vortex150 or so was the correct name
[02:07] <freeflying> pitti: just need langiage-pack(depend on scim module) installed it can works , or you can make langauge-pack depend on scim/skim
[02:07] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: empty on golem (which has the same mobo, etc)
[02:07] <Keybuk> ok, good
[02:08] <freeflying> pitti: it seems not only CJK user need scim ,but also others
[02:08] <pitti> freeflying: ah, right, we need it for the scim | skim selection, i. e. ubuntu-desktop -> scim, kubuntu-desktop -> skim
[02:08] <freeflying> pitti: ya
[02:08] <Keybuk> pitti: please file a kernel bug, probably describe it something like "/sys/bus/pnp/devices is empty" and explain that this is very silly, and older kernels show a dozen or so devices, and this is why pcspkr, floppy, etc. aren't loaded for you
[02:08] <sladen> ogra: sweet card;  proper hardware 3d card onboard
[02:08] <pitti> Keybuk: ah, thanks
[02:09] <ogra> sladen, it took almost a year to get it going back then, they offered no driver at all when i got it ..
[02:10] <ogra> later there was a proprietary one ...
[02:10] <freeflying> Kamion: how about the UVF of scim-pinyin , i've sent u the changelog
[02:12] <Kamion> freeflying: look, it's only been less than an hour since you sent the mail and I am very busy with other work. Please be a bit more patient.
[02:12] <Keybuk> pitti: what bug# did you file?
[02:13] <freeflying> Kamion: hehe , I just expect a better CJK suport dapper 
[02:13] <pitti> Keybuk: none so far, I'll add the comments to bug 33359
[02:13] <Ubugtu> malone bug 33359 in linux-source-2.6.15 floppy-modules-2.6.15-16-amd64-generic-di "Floppy module not loaded on boot; no /dev/fd0 created" [Major,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33359
[02:14] <desrt> do people still have floppy drives and expect to use them?
[02:14] <Kamion> freeflying: just please let me do other things, I can't be doing UVF exceptions and archive maintenance all day long because I have my own goals and they're very substantial
[02:14] <desrt> crikey
[02:14] <irvin> desrt, unfortunately yes
[02:14] <freeflying> Kamion: :)
[02:16] <pitti> Keybuk: sub'ed you and added comment
[02:16] <desrt> my sister's teacher actually told her class to use floppy disks because usb keys are unreliable
[02:17] <pitti> lol
[02:17] <Treenaks> desrt: uh... maybe because you need a different driver for every USB key in windows?
[02:17] <desrt> Treenaks; surely this isn't true
[02:17] <Treenaks> desrt: it isn't?
[02:17] <desrt> Treenaks; i'm pretty sure it's not
[02:17] <Treenaks> desrt: last 3 keys asked for a driver disk on XP for me
[02:18] <desrt> Treenaks; i've never experienced this when plugging my key into windows
[02:18] <Treenaks> desrt: but that might be HP OEM windows brokenness
[02:18] <desrt> Treenaks; who knows
[02:23] <Keybuk> there are several digital camera drivers which break the windows usb storage driver
[02:24] <Treenaks> Keybuk: great, more good advocacy points 
[02:29] <slomo_> infinity, lamont: please give-back tomboy on amd64... thanks :)
[02:32] <desrt> mjg59; oh man that's a bad picture
[02:32] <desrt> mjg59; when that was taken, were you a communist yet?
[02:40] <torkel> slomo_: wouldn't it be easier to do a new upload of tomboy and enable the evolution (and galago) plugins. That Should give you free rebuild on amd64, shouldn't it? :-))
[02:41] <desrt> torkel; only if he enabled the fixed width font plugin at the same time, natch.
[02:41] <slomo_> torkel: you write a main inclusion report for galago-sharp and get pitti to approve the one for gmime2.1, get both promoted to main and i enable the plugins... what do you think? ;)
[02:42] <torkel> slomo_: ah, that's the issue...
[02:43] <slomo_> torkel: yes... but maybe the evolution plugin will be enabled for dapper... we'll see
[02:43] <slomo_> Kamion: please promote mono-tools, nunit and nant to main... main inclusion reports were approved by pitti some days ago
[02:53] <infinity> slomo: Done.
[02:53] <slomo> infinity: thanks
[03:08] <AlinuxOS> pitti, around ?
[03:08] <pitti> AlinuxOS: yes, but veeery busy
[03:08] <AlinuxOS> pitti, ;)
[03:08] <AlinuxOS> ok
[03:09] <Keybuk> bah, I so need to change debian-changelog-mode to not default to "unstable"
[03:10] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: that'd be useful
[03:12] <Keybuk> otherwise my uploads keep escaping from the main loop, and need a Tommy Lee Jones sound-a-like to chase them across open ground
[03:16] <Kamion> Mithrandir: could you merge http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/casper/mountpoints/ please? (or do you want a mail?)
[03:18] <Mithrandir> Kamion: do you want an upload too?
[03:19] <Kamion> Mithrandir: would be nice
[03:19] <Kamion> then once infinity does his magic and I mirror it in cdimage we'll have espresso installing a plain desktop without live-only junk
[03:21] <Mithrandir> Kamion: merged, pushed, uploaded.
[03:21] <Kamion> cheers
[03:21] <Mithrandir> tripleverb!
[03:21] <Mithrandir> :-p
[03:22] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:22] <Mithrandir> it should probably be something like: bzr -- merge, push, upload!
[03:23] <ploum> Hello.
[03:23] <ploum> OOo 1.1 will not be in Dapper anymore ?
[03:23] <Kamion> ploum: no
[03:24] <ploum> Hmmm.. That's annoying because some bugs prevent some people to use OOo 2
[03:24] <Treenaks> ploum: like?
[03:24] <Kamion> perhaps it's time to move on - we can't support two enormous software stacks forever
[03:24] <ploum> like the printing dialog bug
[03:24] <ploum> I'll try to find it
[03:25] <zakame> hm yet another Roman innovation
[03:27] <ploum> Kamion: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org2-amd64/+bug/26567
[03:27] <Ubugtu> malone bug 26567 in Debian "Cannot use "brochure" printing options as intended" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[03:27] <ploum> http://librarian.launchpad.net/1512708/ooo.png : screenshot
[03:28] <Kamion> hey, I'm not the oo.o maintainer
[03:28] <ploum> It's just to tell you I'm not kidding ;-)
[03:29] <ploum> Maybe it can be possible to still have some openoffice.org1.1 packages availables
[03:29] <Kamion> you should be able to install them from breezy
[03:29] <fabbione> re
[03:29] <ploum> Kamion: no because the name conflict
[03:29] <Kamion> ah
[03:30] <Kamion> still, I'd really rather we moved on and just fixed the top oo.o2 issues by dapper if possible
[03:30] <Kamion> a pile of separate packages would end up being effectively unmaintained
[03:30] <ploum> Kamion: I understand
[03:31] <Kamion> and breezy will still be supported for some time
[03:31] <Kamion> (if need be)
[03:31] <ploum> What about putting OOo 1.1 in universe ?
[03:31] <seb128> ploum: that's like saying "we should ship GNOME 1.n because GNOME 2 has some bugs atm" :)
[03:31] <Kamion> I mean obviously doko might disagree with me on all of this
[03:31] <Kamion> ploum: that's a given anyway, it wouldn't be in main
[03:31] <Kamion> my replies above assumed universe
[03:31] <ploum> ok
[03:32] <ploum> seb128: the main difference is that ATM, OOo 2 is not usable at all for some people
[03:32] <seb128> ploum: seems a strong assumption, is that known by upstream?
[03:33] <ploum> seb128: I talked about it upstream
[03:33] <ploum> it seems that it's not an upstream bug
[03:33] <ploum> but just a bug from the compilation/package
[03:33] <Kamion> well in that case it should be amenable to being fixed
[03:33] <zakame> ploum: openoffice.org (1) is already in universe
[03:34] <ploum> I talked with a developper who doesn't have this bug and was astonished by the screenshot
[03:34] <Kamion> zakame: not any more it's not
[03:34] <ploum> zakame: my bad ;-)
[03:34] <seb128> ploum: what you are saying is that we have a distro bug
[03:34] <seb128> ploum: and instead of fixing it you recommand to ship OO1?
[03:34] <Kamion> zakame: as of today, openoffice.org is version 2 and supersedes it
[03:34] <ploum> seb128: "I think" that's a distro bug
[03:34] <seb128> is http://librarian.launchpad.net/1512708/ooo.png tour issue?
[03:35] <zakame> Kamion: grrr, /me has to apt-get update again
[03:35] <seb128> from the bug
[03:35] <seb128> "  The printer-properties-disable patch that is applied during the build process removes the Orientation property from the options."
[03:35] <AlinuxOS> eh
[03:35] <AlinuxOS> :(
[03:35] <seb128> so that's just a patch to drop
[03:35] <AlinuxOS> mjg59, ping
[03:36] <Lathiat> mjg59: ping too, need to fix this synaptics issue.. any chane to test those settings?
[03:36] <Lathiat> has anyone else here got a real synaptics touchpad?
[03:36] <Kamion> Keybuk: um, you do too have type in busybox
[03:36] <Lathiat> (not an alps)
[03:36] <AlinuxOS> I'm talking with people on #gtk+ nad #freedesktop, but noone knows howto fix this problem...
[03:36] <Kamion> Keybuk: it's built unconditionally in ash
[03:37] <AlinuxOS> every person tells me that I must file the bug for my distribution :(
[03:37] <AlinuxOS> I don't know howto solve this problem.
[03:38] <Keybuk> Kamion: well, it wasn't working :)
[03:38] <Treenaks> hmm.. why did Gimp lose its Print dialog? (i.e. is this intended?)
[03:38] <Keybuk> changing to just -x /sbin/usplash_write fixed the problem
[03:38] <fabbione> AlinuxOS: you are 1) talking about a known bug 2) it's upstream and it's written in the upstream changelog
[03:38] <Kamion> Keybuk: bizarre, since the installer uses it liberally
[03:38] <Keybuk> oddness
[03:38] <Kamion> Keybuk: could be your $PATH is wrong?
[03:38] <Keybuk> syndicate scott% /usr/lib/initramfs-tools/bin/busybox type
[03:38] <Keybuk> type: applet not found
[03:38] <AlinuxOS> fabbione, is it known bug ? 
[03:38] <AlinuxOS> I don't really know this :)
[03:39] <Kamion> Keybuk: busybox sh, then use type
[03:39] <Kamion> Keybuk: it's a builtin
[03:39] <Keybuk> Kamion: weird
[03:39] <Keybuk> *shrug*
[03:39] <fabbione> AlinuxOS: aren't you talking about synaptic speed being "too slow"=
[03:39] <fabbione> ?
[03:39] <Kamion> kind of has to be a builtin
[03:39] <AlinuxOS> fabbione, ;) No
[03:39] <Kamion> "how would the shell interpret this command?" "er, dunno"
[03:39] <fabbione> AlinuxOS: ok. open a bug than
[03:40] <AlinuxOS> fabbione, I'll do it :)
[03:40] <AlinuxOS> If it helps I'll do it :)
[03:40] <fabbione> AlinuxOS: it only depends if i will get to look at it end of next week or not
[03:40] <AlinuxOS> fabbione, are you a fontconfig master ?
[03:40] <Keybuk> Kamion: either way, the "type usplash_write" was returning false
[03:41] <AlinuxOS> if yes I hope that you can fix it...
[03:41] <fabbione> AlinuxOS: no
[03:41] <Keybuk> (at least, an echo in that block didn't get printed)
[03:41] <fabbione> AlinuxOS: font -> desktop team
[03:41] <AlinuxOS> fabbione, ok :)
[03:41] <AlinuxOS> fabbione, Grazie!
[03:41] <Kamion> Keybuk: right, hence my suspicion of $PATH
[03:41] <AlinuxOS> fabbione, do you speak Italian too ? :)
[03:41] <Keybuk> no idea what $PATH is in initramfs
[03:42] <fabbione> AlinuxOS: yes you already asked, but i don't do it in a public english chan for respect to other readers
[03:42] <Kamion> it doesn't set it, so it's probably the kernel's default for new processes, which IIRC is /usr/bin:/bin
[03:42] <AlinuxOS> fabbione, right :)
[03:43] <AlinuxOS> I understood this :) And now I'm trying to speak english everytime (even bad english)
[03:51] <seb128> fabbione: "font -> desktop team", hum ...
[03:51] <fabbione> ain't X bug
[03:52] <dholbach> fabbione: it's a kubuntu bug as well if you discuss like this ;)
[03:52] <seb128> fabbione: no, right, is fontconfig stuff, but do we have any fontconfig dude?
[03:52] <fabbione> sure :)
[03:53] <fabbione> seb128: no
[03:53] <fabbione> that's why you win
[03:53] <ploum> it seems I've found a xchat-gnome crasher
[03:53] <seb128> I don't know enough about it to do changes happely
[03:53] <fabbione> neither do I
[03:53] <fabbione> but you are cooler than me on desktop :P
[03:53] <seb128> best way is to try the list imho
[03:53] <dholbach> ploum: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
[03:53] <seb128> it's likely nobody will take over the bug on launchpad
[03:54] <seb128> fabbione: that's right :)
[03:54] <fabbione> seb128: see.. so you win :)
[03:55] <seb128> :p
[03:56] <pitti> smurf: ping
[04:08] <Keybuk> was xchat-gnome deliberately de-seeded?
[04:08] <fabbione> yes
[04:08] <Keybuk> but xchat hasn't been seeded?
[04:08] <fabbione> it has been
[04:08] <fabbione> no?
[04:08] <Keybuk> not here it hasn't
[04:08] <fabbione> ah no it was from universe
[04:08] <pitti> Keybuk: it was decided that we don't need  an IRC client in desktop
[04:08] <Keybuk> *blink*
[04:09] <pitti> well, IRC is for power users anyway
[04:09] <Keybuk> most of our users are still power users, no?
[04:09] <Keybuk> can we de-seed openoffices too? :p
[04:10] <Mithrandir> tetex should be enough for everybody
[04:11] <ogra_> pfft, who needs formatting ...
[04:11] <ogra_> .txt should suffice
[04:11] <Keybuk> Terminal is for power-users, can we drop gnome-terminal? :)
[04:11] <Treenaks> ogra_: then we can dump the shiny of gnome too
[04:11] <ogra_> Treenaks, as long as we keep vim :)
[04:11] <Treenaks> ogra_: nvi
[04:12] <Mithrandir> ogra_: you have gedit.
[04:13] <ogra_> Mithrandir, ah, true ...
[04:13] <Kamion> fabbione: well, that seems to work (partman-auto)
[04:13] <Kamion> fabbione: going back from the per-disk menu doesn't do the right thing
[04:14] <Mez> hmm
[04:14] <Mithrandir> infinity: couldn't the initramfs set a useful PATH?  It's less silly than hardcoding paths all over the place.
[04:14] <Mez> I cant reply to emails in thunderbird
[04:14] <Kamion> fabbione: and I do think the multi-line thing is confusing - unless we put blank lines between each block, and make sure that pressing Enter when the cursor is on the device info line(s) selects the corresponding disk
[04:14] <Kamion> fabbione: but I've got a feeling that's going to chomp a bit too much vertical space
[04:15] <fabbione> Kamion: no i don't handle go back yet..
[04:15] <fabbione> Kamion: so.. ok we kill the "device info thing"
[04:15] <fabbione> Kamion: it's just a static printf now.. but the code can stay.. it's harmless
[04:15] <Kamion> yeah
[04:16] <fabbione> just in case they change their mind
[04:16] <Kamion> I think sticking the extra info into the description at the top of the next screen will work well, looking at this
[04:16] <fabbione> ok..
[04:16] <Kamion> you know partman-auto-lvm needs to be adjusted too, I imagine
[04:16] <fabbione> yes i do
[04:16] <Kamion> I guess you can cope with that one ;-)
[04:16] <fabbione> yeps
[04:16] <fabbione> that's dead easy
[04:16] <Kamion> haven't tried any of this in espresso yet, this is just looking at it in d-i
[04:17] <fabbione> did you notice that i did change very little choices?
[04:17] <Kamion> I think it makes the main menu rather more comprehensible in the multiple-disk case, actually
[04:17] <Kamion> yeah
[04:17] <fabbione> they don't lose compatibility
[04:17] <Kamion> very few string changes => good
[04:17] <fabbione> i am trying to reuse as much as i can
[04:17] <Kamion> might want to check that the preseeded recipe path still works
[04:17] <Kamion> iirc that preseeds partman-auto/disk
[04:17] <fabbione> i doubt
[04:17] <fabbione> oh
[04:17] <fabbione> that one does
[04:17] <fabbione> i didn't change that part of the code
[04:18] <Kamion> hey, why don't you use partman-auto/disk rather than partman-auto/newlayout/select_dis
[04:18] <Kamion> k
[04:18] <Kamion> it's more idiomatic and would make preseeding work in the really obvious way
[04:18] <fabbione> yes that's ok..
[04:18] <fabbione> i wanted to keep the changes as obvious as possible for your approval
[04:19] <fabbione> ok anyway we agree.
[04:19] <Kamion> I think it might actually be even simpler if you worked it into the existing code that db_gets partman-auto/disk
[04:20] <Kamion> but anyway, yeah - I have to go to take the child to a music lesson
[04:20] <Kamion> I'll take my laptop with me and do some work there
[04:26] <Keybuk> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of ia32-libs-openoffice.org:
[04:26] <Keybuk>  ia32-libs-openoffice.org depends on ia32-libs (>= 1.4ubuntu10); however:
[04:26] <Keybuk>   Version of ia32-libs on system is 1.4ubuntu7.
[04:26] <Keybuk> hmm
[04:27] <Keybuk> (ia32-libs was scheduled in the same run, and configure --any after made everything happy)
[04:29] <marcin`> hi developers
[04:29] <marcin`> do you know that gksu package in dapper is currently broken?
[04:29] <marcin`> is that known issue or need to file bug to malone?
[04:33] <ogra_> seb128, ping
[04:34] <seb128> ogra_: pong
[04:34] <seb128> reply to my eog comment? :)
[04:34] <ogra_> seb128, i'm sitting in front of the gthumb source currently
[04:34] <seb128> ah
[04:34] <ogra_> nah, already moved on :)
[04:34] <ogra_> it cpoies the totem-scrsaver.c file directly from totem
[04:34] <ogra_> ito its own source
[04:35] <ogra_> *copies
[04:35] <ogra_> i want to add gss handling, it would be tempting to simply use the new totem-scrsaver.c from totem, but that would add a dbus dependency to gthumb ... which doesnt seem right
[04:36] <ogra_> an alternative would be to use a similar approach the eog patch uses ...
[04:36] <ogra_> seb128, any opinion ?
[04:36] <seb128> eog approch sounds better
[04:36] <seb128> it's much simplier
[04:36] <ogra_> i think so as well
[04:36] <seb128> using dbus seems overwork
[04:36] <seb128> and bug proof
[04:37] <ogra_> i tried to avoid adding other approaches than already used for all apps i touched this week ...
[04:37] <ogra_> but here it seems feasable to leave that path
[04:37] <ogra_> thanks then ...
[04:38] <ogra_> s/touched/touched for gss compatibility/
[04:38] <seb128> np
[04:42] <ogra_> Kinnison, my g-p-m suddenly tells me every 10sec that my battery is full, looks suspicious like bug 32650 just with another message
[04:42] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32650 in gnome-power-manager "g-p-m notifies me every second that my battery is running out" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32650
[04:43] <Keybuk> ogra_: it could be worse ... my phone not only alerts me the battery is running low every few minutes, but to do so it turns on the display, plays an animation and plays a sound ...
[04:43] <Keybuk> "if your battery wasn't low, it is now!"
[04:43] <ogra_> nomeata, its fully charged 
[04:43] <ogra_> it alerts me about having a fully charged battery :)
[04:43] <Kinnison> ogra_: Hmm, can you please get a gpm trace and attach it to that bug showing it repeatedly re-notifying?
[04:43] <ogra_> s/nometa/no/
[04:44] <ogra_> Kinnison, trying
[04:44] <ogra_> .. i fear it will go away if i try to re-run g-p-m
[04:44] <Keybuk> strace -p
[04:44] <Kinnison> Keybuk: not useful
[04:45] <Kinnison> ogra_: yeah, that's the issue I've been having recently
[04:45] <Keybuk> gdm -p ?
[04:45] <Keybuk> uh, gdb!
[04:45] <ogra_> lol
[04:45] <Kinnison> ogra_: I've taken to running g-p-m in --no-daemon --verbose mode all the time writing to disk
[04:45] <Kinnison> Keybuk: again not useful
[04:45] <Kinnison> Keybuk: if it's not in verbose mode, it won't be generating the trace messages
[04:45] <ogra_> Kinnison, will do that for the future 
[04:45] <doko_> Mithrandir, jbailey: can you remember why to include the gtk1.2/glib1 libs in ia32-libs?
[04:46] <Mithrandir> doko_: hysterical raisins
[04:46] <Mithrandir> doko_: ia32-libs is pre-gtk2. :-P
[04:46] <ogra_> Kinnison, hmm, gdb -p <pid> has stopped it ... intresting
[04:46] <Kinnison> ogra_: urgh
[04:47] <Kinnison> ogra_: I remember commenting a week or so ago that g-p-m was by far and away the most delicate system I'd ever seen wrt. debugging
[04:47] <doko_> Mithrandir: ok, then I'd like to take them out, so they don't land on the CD. if somebody cries, then we can make a ia32-libs-gtk1 package
[04:47] <Kinnison> the moment it gets enough of an observer, the bugs go away
[04:47] <ogra_> yeah 
[04:47] <ogra_> seems it hangs completely now 
[04:48] <Kinnison> heh
[04:48] <ogra_> hmm
[04:48] <ogra_> unattaching gdb and it reappears
[04:48] <Kinnison> you did let gdb continue didn't you?
[04:49] <ogra_> with c ?
[04:49] <ogra_> yes
[04:49] <Kinnison> how odd
[04:49] <ogra_> yup
[04:50] <Kinnison> I'll be back in an hour or so
[05:12] <lemsx1> hello all
[05:12] <lemsx1> error opening security policy file /etc/xserver/SecurityPolicy
[05:12] <seb128> hi
[05:12] <seb128> launchpad.ubuntu.com
[05:12] <lemsx1> this is the second box that i get that message when trying to use any X app
[05:12] <lemsx1> seb128: malone?
[05:13] <seb128> yep, send a bug if there is none about it yet
[05:13] <dholbach> lemsx1: file a bug in malone (http://launchpad.net/malone/distros/ubuntu) 
[05:14] <sivang> lemsx1: if there is a bug already, see what new light you can shed on this problem that hasn't yet already, to assit in tracking it etc..
[05:14] <lemsx1> sivang: there is one
[05:15] <lemsx1> bug #33400
[05:15] <Ubugtu> malone bug 33400 in xorg "/etc/xserver/SecurityPolicy" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33400
[05:16] <lemsx1> sivang: i usually just do a symlink to /usr/lib...SecurityPolicy... hold. i'll add notes
[05:17] <sivang> lemsx1: cool, thanks.
[05:18] <lemsx1> sivang: i'm guessing the "right" location for this should be /etc/X11/xserver/SecurityPolicy, as done by xserver-common: /etc/X11/xserver/SecurityPolicy
[05:22] <Diablo-D3> I can't seem to find this documented anywhere...
[05:22] <Diablo-D3> but if "apt-ftparchive packages directory | gzip > Packages.gz" has Packages.gz for the packages command, is Source.gz the valid filename for the source command?
[05:31] <Diablo-D3> apparently, it is 
[05:34] <lemsx1> people loves asking first, researching later uh... 
[05:34] <lemsx1> (me included of course. lol)
[06:03] <Diablo-D3> does anyone have any webspace that isnt on sf.net that I could temporarly upload a bunch of debs for ubuntu?
[06:04] <mjr> What's temporary, and "yes", if by uploading you mean "arrange for me to get them via some means" (can't dish out ftp access or anything). Plus if it's in the hundreds of megs max.
[06:05] <Diablo-D3> mjr: until ubuntu universe gets them (which may be awhile)
[06:05] <Diablo-D3> and I think the whole bunch is less than 20 megs
[06:05] <mementor> is gksu package broken?
[06:06] <Diablo-D3> mementor: not quite
[06:06] <Diablo-D3> mementor: it randomly wants to upgrade correctly
[06:06] <mjr> Diablo-D3, well, I can host it at mjr.iki.fi then, as said, if you can send them to me somehow, via dcc possibly
[06:07] <mementor> i just tryied to upgrade gksu but it gives me bunch of errors..
[06:07] <Diablo-D3> mementor: try doing it while gdm is running
[06:07] <Diablo-D3> that seemed to fix it for no obvious reason for me
[06:07] <mementor> ok, ill try that
[06:07] <Riddell> Kamion: can you tell me what the gconf stuff in mountpoints_to_summary does?
[06:08] <jsgotangco> hmm that ubuntu mcdonalds story at digg is strange
[06:08] <Diablo-D3> mjr: go go gadget tar zcvf!
[06:08] <Diablo-D3> jsgotangco: url?
[06:08] <jsgotangco> http://blog.thetechgurus.net/?p=69
[06:09] <jsgotangco> and it originated from the forums doh!
[06:09] <Diablo-D3> mjr: okay, its about 30 megs.
[06:09] <mjr> yep, no problem with things that size
[06:09] <mjr> seems it'll take a while
[06:09] <mjr> I'll put it under http://mjr.iki.fi/ubuntu/ when I get it
[06:10] <Diablo-D3> mjr: you may wanna rename the produced dir to just synfig then
[06:10] <mjr> 'k
[06:10] <Diablo-D3> and the neat part is, its apt-get repo ready <3
[06:11] <Diablo-D3> I dont know what I'd do without apt-get
[06:11] <mjr> yep, I assumed as much
[06:11] <Diablo-D3> probably curse alot and start running fbsd more =/
[06:38] <sladen> ogra_: would you be able to modify hwdb to show the DMI manufacturer, system-{manufacturer,product-name,version}  If might be easier way of getting the dmi data out of people
[06:42] <ogra_> sladen, not before ui freeze, but i'll put it on my todo
[06:56] <Diablo-D3> mjr: its done
[07:04] <sladen> ogra_: were/are there any edubuntu-like setups for Cybercafes, I have someone asking for something with centrally managed power-on/off and accounting
[07:06] <ogra_> sladen, not yet ... i'm working on a kiosk mode on ltsp level for such institutions ... edubuntu might be the best choice to have an out of the box setup directly after install, but you have to set up everything manually for things like kiosk mode 
[07:06] <Diablo-D3> kiobuntu?
[07:06] <Diablo-D3> ubutosk.
[07:07] <fabbione> lstsk
[07:07] <sladen> cafebuntu
[07:07] <ogra_> lstsk ?
[07:07] <Diablo-D3> sladen: that works
[07:07] <Diablo-D3> actually, it shouldnt be that hard
[07:07] <ogra_> sladen, cool, i'll make that an edubuntu installmode in dapper+1 ;)
[07:08] <Diablo-D3> copy live cd to harddrive
[07:08] <Diablo-D3> live cds are pretty kiosky to begin with
[07:08] <fabbione> mdz: ping?
[07:10] <Riddell> Kamion, Mithrandir: where can I find kbd_chooser.py?
[07:10] <sladen> Diablo-D3: netboot and run the whole setup out of RAM;  reboot when they leave (which is what easyeverything did)
[07:11] <Diablo-D3> sladen: that sounds about right
[07:22] <mdz> fabbione: pong
[07:41] <fabbione>  /usr/lib/mozilla-thunderbird/run-mozilla.sh: line 131:  1454 Segmentation fault      "$prog" ${1+"$@"}
[07:41] <fabbione> nice :)
[07:44] <fangorious> i'm having trouble with the flight-4 livecd on my laptop, after selecting to either boot hte live system or check the cd, i get the kernel loading progress bar, and then an error message "i/o error: could not find ramdisk image: /install"
[07:44] <fangorious> i've downloaded the iso multiple times, confirmed it has the right md5sum, burned the image about 7 times at different speeds on 3 machines with multiple blank cds, nothing helps
[07:45] <fangorious> i can't seem to run 'md5sum /dev/cdrom' on the laptop, it gives me an i/o error. and I don't know how to md5sum a cd on windows 
[07:46] <Tm_T> fangorious: how about installin "md5sum" program in windows?
[07:47] <Tm_T> +g
[07:47] <fangorious> Tm_T: but what argument do I give it? I have md5sum under cygwin
[07:47] <Tm_T> ach
[07:47] <Tm_T> you can't use any native windows programs?
[07:48] <Tm_T> btw there's been lot of reports about flight 4 cd's having major problems
[07:48] <fangorious> i'm sure I could, I just don't have any handy
[07:48] <Tm_T> so there's possibility you can't get it woeking
[07:48] <fangorious> man. i need a livecd with a good partitioning program, wanted to use gparted
[07:49] <Tm_T> knoppix has qtparted or something
[07:49] <Tm_T> ;)
[07:50] <fangorious> ugh. think i'll try a breezy livecd
[08:09] <mjg59> Woo!
[08:09] <mjg59> Installer running
[08:09] <Diablo-D3> what box?
[08:10] <mjg59> Intel imac
[08:11] <Diablo-D3> ooh sounds like fun
[08:11] <Diablo-D3> but its not suprising
[08:12] <Diablo-D3> its not like macintels are ZOMG NEW HARDWARE THAT SHALL NEVER RUN LINUX!!!!!!1 or anything.
[08:12] <Diablo-D3> mjg59: but did you see what I did?
[08:18] <Diablo-D3> Synfig on Ubuntu: http://shadowconflict.blogspot.com/2006/03/synfig-ubuntu-debs.html
[08:20] <Diziet> Wahey, I have a virtual machine.
[08:28] <Diziet> Wow, this xen is soooo funky!
[08:32] <lemsx1> i gotta congrats you guys
[08:32] <lemsx1> i'm using rythmbox for the first time without crashing every 5 min ;-)
[08:32] <lemsx1> (i'm on Dapper)
[08:35] <mjr> Diablo-D3, oh yeah, by the way, it's there (renamed as you suggested)
[08:35] <Diablo-D3> mjr: I noticed =P
[08:38] <Burgwork> hmm, CNR for Ubuntu
[08:38] <Diablo-D3> mjr: and Im betting no one will download it =(
[08:43] <G0SUB> sivang 
[08:51] <poningru> so will dapper+1 be all 686?
[08:51] <poningru> or is that decision defered for now?
[08:51] <Diablo-D3> poningru: defered because it doesnt make sense
[08:51] <Diablo-D3> there are too many modern x86 processors that arent 686 compatible
[08:52] <poningru> well isnt that what mubuntu was meant for?
[08:52] <Diablo-D3> yeah, but no one wants mubuntu
[08:52] <Diablo-D3> they want to use the fully bloated gnome desktop on their Via C3s
[08:52] <poningru> hehe
[08:52] <poningru> what about the upstream prob?
[08:52] <Diablo-D3> which one?
[08:52] <poningru> lots of upstream are just doing 686
[08:53] <Diablo-D3> said upstream smokes crack.
[08:53] <poningru> but the patches duke the patches !!
[08:53] <Diablo-D3> besides, they cant really "do 686"
[08:54] <Diablo-D3> any hardwired cflags are always patched out for sanity reasons
[08:54] <poningru> hmm ic
[08:54] <Mithrandir> dholbach: btw, no need to prod admins about the popcon RT case.  I have access to the machine now.
[08:54] <Diablo-D3> and I doubt anyone is going to bother writting ASM that uses 686 ops
[08:54] <Diablo-D3> because they'd still have to write the same code in C, which means thats what we'd end up using
[08:55] <poningru> oh true
[08:59] <dholbach> Mithrandir: mdz asked me to
[08:59] <Mithrandir> dholbach: well, mdz didn't know I had my access already.
[08:59] <dholbach> Mithrandir: me neither
[08:59] <Mithrandir> dholbach: anyway, no need to prod them further or anything.  Prod me about what you want, rather. :-)
[08:59] <dholbach> Mithrandir: I didn't mean to push anybody to anything
[09:00] <Mithrandir> dholbach: no, I didn't mean to imply so.  Just a small fyi.
[09:00] <dholbach> Mithrandir: I'm not going to prod and I didn't consider "hey, how's <X> going as prodding" :-)))
[09:00] <dholbach> yeah :)
[09:00] <Mithrandir> dholbach: anyway, what is it that you want me to do on popcon?  Make stats for universe too=
[09:00] <Mithrandir> s/=/?/
[09:01] <dholbach> Mithrandir: no, I just said in the "important stuff, I can see"-section, that it'd be nice to have popcon going, to prioritize the motu fixing
[09:01] <Mithrandir> dholbach: ah, true.
[09:01] <Mithrandir> dholbach: I'll see if I can get to it next week, then?
[09:01] <dholbach> Mithrandir: but I understand if you have other stuff to do, so I don't mean to push you
[09:01] <dholbach> Mithrandir: take your time - that'd be brilliant
[09:03] <dholbach> Mithrandir: thanks a lot :)
[09:32] <zAo^> does anyone know how I can make dapper boot like this (gentoo) http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/460/4.gif
[09:32] <zAo^> thanks
[09:33] <Mithrandir> change usplash-artwork.so to something which provides that artwork
[09:34] <G0SUB> Mithrandir that artwork is just crappy
[09:34] <G0SUB> zAo^ use splashy or Upower
[09:34] <zAo^> thanks G0SUB
[09:34] <G0SUB> :)
[09:34] <Mithrandir> G0SUB: if you think so, just replace it with something else.
[09:35] <G0SUB> Mithrandir that's the issue ... you need to compile stuff for that ... not easy for everybody
[09:35] <dholbach> G0SUB: don't think that other solutions were not pondered.
[09:35] <dholbach> G0SUB: and "crappy" is not exactly friendly towards people who worked on this.
[09:36] <G0SUB> dholbach I am aware of that ... sorry
[09:36] <Mithrandir> G0SUB: patches for changing that are accepted, I'm sure.
[09:36] <dholbach> G0SUB: I didn't work on it, but I think it's much nicer than before. :-)
[09:36] <tseng> G0SUB: usplash is written with very wide device compatibility in mind
[09:36] <G0SUB> dholbach no doubt, but changing the image is a real PITA
[09:37] <tseng> G0SUB: not being the best graphically
[09:37] <mjg59> Hm. Arse. No DMI tables on the Mac.
[09:38] <G0SUB> guys, thanks for being so understanding ... I accept my fault and lack of knowledge
[09:38] <G0SUB> where is the usplash mailing list or bug tracker?
[09:39] <G0SUB> can't find it on lauchpad
[09:48] <doko_> Kamion: gcc-4.0-hppa64 isn't seeded anymore, is hppa currently not included in the anastacia check?
[10:05] <Seveas> Kamion, ping
[10:15] <sladen> g0sub: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/usplash/+bugs
[10:26] <dholbach> Good Night guys!
[10:28] <Pygi> night dholbach
[10:39] <tseng> infinity: please give back muine on ppc
[10:43] <mantiena> hello all
[10:44] <mantiena> anyone knows why at archive.ubuntu.com there are OOo2.0.2rc4 binaries, but no sources ?
[10:45] <mdz> seb128: is it possible to disable sound events by default, while still having the login and logout sounds play?
[10:46] <mdz> mantiena: the source is there, it just isn't where it should be (it's in universe)
[10:46] <seb128> mdz: my unassigning all the other events by default probably
[10:46] <mdz> Kamion: and it doesn't show up in anastacia, oddly enough
[10:47] <seb128> mdz: making a patch to have them played in any case would probably be easy too
[10:47] <mantiena> mdz, hehe, it's pretty strange :)
[10:47] <mdz> seb128: whichever implementation you feel is best, please make that change
[10:48] <seb128> mdz: k, I'll have a look tomorrow, should be easy. Good decision imho, sound events on click, etc tends to be annoying
[10:49] <doko_> Source only promotions to main 
[10:49] <doko_>  ------------------------------ 
[10:49] <doko_>  o openoffice.org
[10:49] <doko_>  o openoffice.org-amd64
[10:49] <doko_>  o openoffice.org-l10n
[10:49] <doko_> mdz: ^^^
[10:49] <mdz> oh, my bookmark still points to my anastacia.txt, not Colin's
[10:49] <mdz> I thought I fixed it
[10:49] <mantiena> mdz, doko_: this is sort of bug when binaries are in main, but  source in universe, right ?
[10:50] <doko_> mdz: replace the file by a symlink please ;)
[10:50] <mdz> doko_: yep, done
[10:50] <mdz> mantiena: no, it is normal for it to be out of sync when packages move between components
[10:51] <mdz> it is a temporary situation
[10:51] <mantiena> ok
[10:52] <mantiena> doko_,  openoffice.org_2.0.1oob680m5-1ubuntu2 is the newest version or somewhere I can find newer ?
[10:53] <doko_> mantiena: sure, upstream CVS ;-)
[10:53] <mantiena> doko_, :) I got error during making packages of older version, error was because ooqstart binary was not in ooo-core, but in ooo-common package (I can paste build error if you want)
[10:54] <mvo> mdz: zyga implemented the cmd-no-found spec (a app that suggests the binary package based on a command that was not found). can this still go into universe? or this it too late for this already?
[10:54] <mantiena> I just wanna report a bug to you :)
[10:54] <mantiena> packaging bug
[10:55] <mdz> mvo: I don't see why it couldn't go into universe, no
[10:56] <CarlFK> seb128: did purple_cow talk to about xchat-gnome -a? https://launchpad.net/products/firefox/+bug/31226 
[10:56] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31226 in firefox "FF doesn't do irc:// correctly" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[10:56] <mdz> seb128: yes, we agreed it was annoying some months ago but forgot to implement the change ;-)
[10:57] <mvo> mdz: great, thanks
[10:57] <seb128> CarlFK: I don't understand your question
[10:58] <seb128> CarlFK: didn't read about that bug before
[10:58] <CarlFK> seb128: Ill take that as "no" ;)
[10:58] <CarlFK> skip to the bottem
[10:58] <mdz> Kamion: my bookmark foolery is the same reason I was confused about the Xubuntu bits the other day
[10:59] <seb128> CarlFK: seems to be a bug, but dunno if it's fixed yet
[10:59] <CarlFK> purple_cow couldn't figure out why it broke, and said he would talk to you about it
[10:59] <mdz> Kamion: regarding Xubuntu, the only one that gives me pause is gqview
[11:00] <CarlFK> seb128: given that irc://chat.freenode.com/ubuntu is now on the opening FF page, I figured it would be nice if the link worked 
[11:01] <seb128> CarlFK: right
[11:30] <neuralis> er. wrong channel, sorry.
[11:57] <iBalo> Wouldn't it be a good idea/measure to include the necessary firmware for all the new fancy DVB-drivers in 2.6.15 either in the kernel package, or in a seperated firmware .deb. There's not much use in having drivers in /lib/modules which don't work because the required firmware is missing in /lib/firmware.
[11:58] <Diablo-D3> iBalo: no, it'd be a good idea to make hardware that isnt utter shit and requires external firmware loaded by drivers.
[12:01] <iBalo> Ok, but lets be pragmatic. My Cinergy 1200 is supported by 2.6.15, and all it takes to make it work out of the box is throwing the firmware file in place... I went through a hard time figuring this out, and think that would be nice to avoid this for people not able to read dmesg
[12:01] <mjg59> iBalo: Yes. Do we have permission to redistribute the firmware?
[12:01] <ogra_> iBalo, should be no problem with sanely licensed firmware