[07:55] <robotgeek> are we getting rid of irc clients in kubuntu too?
[08:00] <freeflying> robotgeek: getting rid of irc client ?
[08:01] <robotgeek> freeflying: in ubuntu, they are apparently getting rid of x-chat and x-chat gnome from dapper base install
[08:02] <viviersf> why would you remove irc clients ?
[08:03] <robotgeek> viviersf: beats me, but apparently it's not representative of average irc user
[08:03] <robotgeek> so is vim, lol. 
[08:04] <robotgeek> lucky for me, it's part of the posix standard
[08:04] <viviersf> erm
[08:04] <robotgeek> vi is :)
[08:04] <viviersf> i would not recommend removing those stuff
[08:04] <viviersf> :(
[08:05] <robotgeek> viviersf: weird, i hope kubuntu is not doing the same. 
[08:05] <viviersf> is ubuntu doing this ?
[08:06] <robotgeek> viviersf: yes, there was talk in #ubuntu-devel earlier
[08:07] <seaLne> presumably all that is happening is that those packages will no longer be on the cd, you would still be able to install them your self
[08:07] <robotgeek> seaLne: sure, but our average user would be able to?
[08:08] <seaLne> cds are a fixed size so you can't put everything on them, most users will have an interenet connection and be able to install them easily enough
[08:10] <robotgeek> seaLne: true, but they have ekiga or whatever on there. 
[08:10] <Lathiat> and a python dev environment
[08:10] <Lathiat> and lots of things
[08:10] <viviersf> ag no man
[08:10] <amu> moin
[08:11] <seaLne> i use irssi which is a very popular client, but i presume it isn't in the default install and that dosen't bother me
[08:11] <Lathiat> irssi is in the default install actually
[08:11] <Lathiat> i use it too, its great :)
[08:11] <robotgeek> seaLne: no, irssi is by default
[08:11] <seaLne> ok bad example :)
[08:11] <robotgeek> screen + irssi == great!
[08:11] <Lathiat> screen + irssi + gnome-terminal = bad
[08:11] <Lathiat> fortunately screen + irssi + konsole = good
[08:11] <robotgeek> urxvt == good 
[08:11] <Lathiat> i need tabs
[08:12] <Lathiat> mrxvt is almost there
[08:12] <Lathiat> but konsole is nice
[08:12] <robotgeek> yeah, running screen in a screen can be painful
[08:12] <Lathiat> large thing that stopped me using mrxvt was the lack of right clicking on URLs
[08:12] <Lathiat> kde woudl solve that with klipper
[08:12] <Lathiat> much like i use it with konsole
[08:12] <seaLne> at some point tho konsole stopped letting me use alt + arrow keys to change windows in irssi which was annoying
[08:12] <Lathiat> works fine for me...
[08:12] <seaLne> 3C
[08:13] <seaLne> ^ alt + right
[08:13] <Lathiat> a hint tho
[08:13] <Lathiat> escale + number
[08:13] <Lathiat> is usefull
[08:13] <Lathiat> *escape
[08:13] <robotgeek> seaLne: i actaully did not know that worked, i use alt + #
[08:13] <Lathiat> escape 5 or escape t, works like alt+[5t] 
[08:13] <Lathiat> i use alt+a often
[08:13] <Lathiat> and alt+num for specific windows
[08:13] <seaLne> those numbers are awfully far away on the keyboard :)
[10:40] <Tonio_> hi everyone
[10:40] <Tonio_> freeflying: I re-revued scim-pinyin again.still very little improvements needed, but that's about perfect ;)
[10:41] <freeflying> Tonio_: thx, any comments on that ?
[10:42] <freeflying> Tonio_: W: scim-pinyin: zero-byte-file-in-doc-directory usr/share/doc/scim-pinyin/NEWS.gz
[10:42] <freeflying> this have been removed
[10:44] <freeflying> Tonio_: u mean i remove the cvs dir from source tarball ?
[11:05] <seaLne> is it possible to get gstreamer in amarok to use a web proxy? xine can
[11:05] <viviersf> ok raaait
[11:05] <viviersf> wth is up with the window decorations in kde
[11:06] <viviersf> theres 2 of each
[11:17] <Tonio_> freeflying: yes, remove the cvs entries from the tarball and rebuild it
[11:17] <Tonio_> and put a note in the changelog
[11:17] <Tonio_> concerning the 0 byte file, you can patch it or remove it from the tarball and poke upstream about that, maybe
[11:41] <seaLne> wouldn't removing NEWS from debian/docs sort that?
[11:45] <viviersf> guys
[11:45] <viviersf> why would there be 2 of each window decoration in my config ?
[11:45] <seaLne> which config?
[12:14] <viviersf> seaLne, the window decoration config
[12:58] <raphink> Riddell: did you submit my adept changes to the kde svn already?
[01:00] <Riddell> raphink: which ones?
[01:00] <raphink> the ones I've put as patches in the package
[01:00] <raphink> the desktop changes
[01:01] <Riddell> the translations need to be done by translation the .po file, the k-menu stuff will be reviewed at the user interface sprint next week
[01:01] <raphink> ah ok :)
[01:04] <Riddell> did you also send me the icon for installer?  don't think that's in
[01:05] <raphink> yes I sent it 
[01:05] <raphink> it's a Tonio's
[01:05] <Riddell> it's what?
[01:05] <raphink> you've got svg and various png formats in the package
[01:05] <raphink> well Tonio_ made the icon
[01:05] <raphink> :)
[01:10] <Riddell> icon committed
[01:22] <Riddell> _Sime: I can't seem to import .ui files from anything but the current directory in pykde
[02:02] <viviersf> ooo nice Riddell 
[02:02] <viviersf> i found a app
[02:02] <viviersf> that puts all the gnome apps into 1 menu in kde
[02:07] <Riddell> viviersf: what app is that?
[02:07] <freeflying> Riddell: may you review scim-pinyin now ?
[02:07] <viviersf> Riddell : http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=31025
[02:08] <Riddell> freeflying: sorry,still doing espresso, might have time later not sure
[02:08] <freeflying> Riddell: we will have espresso-kde-fronted ?
[02:09] <Riddell> freeflying: with any luck we'll have something by the end of the day
[02:09] <Riddell> although you'll need to be brave to try it
[02:09] <viviersf> lol Riddell 
[02:10] <freeflying> Riddell: glad to try on kubuntu-zh-livecd 
[02:17] <mornfall> espresso, what does that do? copy the livecd filesystem over?
[02:18] <Riddell> mornfall: yes
[02:18] <Riddell> and lots of talking to debconf
[02:18] <Riddell> and partman
[02:18] <Riddell> and qtparted
[02:20] <freeflying> Riddell: qtparted can not run on today's livecd (which I rematered)
[02:21] <Riddell> freeflying: oh?  what's wrong with it?
[02:21] <Riddell> freeflying: do you have documentation anywhere for how you remastered it?
[02:21] <freeflying> Riddell: haven't yet , hehe
[02:22] <freeflying> Riddell: and I need your espresso-kde-fronted for test 
[02:22] <Riddell> freeflying: don't run it on a computer with a hard disk you care about
[02:32] <freeflying> Riddell: any patch to kdm for language select ?
[02:34] <Riddell> freeflying: I don't have one
[03:21] <freeflying> amu: ping
[03:40] <_Sime> Riddell: is this is a problem with guidance .ui files or something else?
[03:41] <Riddell> _Sime: no, espresso
[03:42] <_Sime> Riddell: what does the manual say?
[03:42] <Riddell> it works if I have the .ui file in current directory or /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages so I can go from foo import bar
[03:42] <Riddell> umm, dunno, never read it :)
[03:42] <_Sime> what do you want to do?
[03:43] <Riddell> be able to do  from espresso.foo import bar  and it'll read in espresso/foo.ui
[03:43] <freeflying> Riddell: is kde fronted for espresso in repo now ?
[03:43] <Riddell> freeflying: not yet
[03:44] <freeflying> Riddell: will u give a snapshot for test ?
[03:44] <_Sime> Riddell: and espresso/foo.ui is relative to the current directory
[03:45] <Riddell> _Sime: yes
[03:45] <Riddell> freeflying: I just need to get kamion to check it over then can upload
[03:46] <_Sime> Riddell: bug??
[03:46] <_Sime> I've got my head stuck in system-settings C++ code right now.
[03:46] <Riddell> _Sime: seems like it to me, but you're the one who wrote the kdedesigner.py stuff :)
[03:46] <Riddell> oh?
[03:47] <_Sime> Riddell: I've never tried doing that. ;)
[03:48] <_Sime> Riddell: can you work around that problem for now?
[03:50] <Riddell> _Sime: yes, just using kdepyuic by hand for now
[03:56] <_Sime> ok
[03:57] <_Sime> Riddell: when is the kde-guidance package getting an update?
[04:04] <Riddell> _Sime: when I have 20 minutes to spare, probably sunday evening
[04:04] <_Sime> oh
[04:42] <_Sime> Riddell: fixes for system-settings: KDE SVN or do you want patches?
[04:42] <Riddell> _Sime: svn
[04:42] <Riddell> _Sime: what did you fix?
[04:43] <_Sime> It has been a trial, but I think I've got the "Foobar is already loaded in system settings" problem worked out.
[04:43] <_Sime> need to clean my work up first...
[04:43] <_Sime> but it seems to be ok
[04:44] <_Sime> I also want to do something about the window size.
[04:44] <_Sime> add scrollbars if needed etc
[04:45] <Riddell> _Sime: rocking
[04:45] <Riddell> i18n not working is the other big problem with system settings
[04:46] <Riddell> I think the "you need to run this as admin" message can go in the toolbar to save space
[04:46] <Riddell> and we can get rid of the menu bar too
[04:48] <_Sime> i18n is not being respected?
[04:49] <_Sime> the menu bar can go. true
[04:49] <_Sime> the "admin message" comes from a KDE class and is not per se in systemsettings. => hard to fix.
[04:49] <Riddell> _Sime: the modules get loaded in en_US as I remember, not sure why
[04:50] <Riddell> _Sime: ah,ok
[06:13] <Lure> Riddell: is Kubuntu espresso CD already available (I see it in topic)?
[06:36] <robotgeek> Riddell: is kaffeine-xine installed by default?
[07:39] <raphink> Riddell: are you here?
[07:40] <robotgeek> raphink: do you know if kaffeine-xine is installed by default?
[07:41] <raphink> I don't know
[07:41] <raphink> it seems to be though
[07:41] <robotgeek> raphink: what is the command to view the policy?
[07:42] <raphink> well install a new system and see if it's there 
[07:42] <raphink> hehe
[07:42] <raphink> I don't remember  having installed this package and it's here
[07:42] <raphink> so I guess it's installed by default
[07:42] <robotgeek> raphink: awesome. one less thing to document :)
[07:42] <raphink> I installed my box again 2 days ago
[07:43] <raphink> so I think I would remember it if I had installed it manually ;)
[07:43] <robotgeek> raphink: nice
[07:43] <robotgeek> thanks
[07:43] <raphink> robotgeek: kubuntu-desktop depends on kaffeine-xine
[07:44] <raphink> that answers definitely ;)
[07:44] <robotgeek> raphink: yup. it's just that things are changing so much, i don't want to document wrongly
[07:44] <raphink> ;)
[07:51] <Lure> robotgeek: it is - use sudo apt-cache rdepends kaffeine-xine
[07:52] <robotgeek> Lure: thanks :)
[10:54] <Mez> Riddell: what version of KDE did kdelibs4 come in with?
[11:52] <raphink> Mez: do you know why KDE 3.5 is not added to the backports ?
[11:52] <Mez> because backports arent possible atm
[11:53] <raphink> well even before
[11:53] <raphink> I mean KDE 3.5 was out months ago
[11:53] <raphink> and was never added to the backports
[11:53] <raphink> isn't it the place where it should be though?
[11:53] <Mez> raphink, the latest version of kde is backportable
[11:54] <Mez> however - we cannot currently backport anything cause of soyuz
[11:54] <raphink> well that is an excuse for now
[11:54] <raphink> but KDE 3.5 has been out before we began using soyuz
[11:54] <Mez> and then it wasnt backportable!
[11:54] <raphink> why?
[11:55] <raphink> what is backportable and what is not?
[11:55] <Mez> raphink: it needs to build and work in breezy from dapper sources
[11:55] <raphink> Riddell made backports on kubuntu.org
[11:55] <raphink> so it was "backportable"
[11:55] <Mez> they had been CHANGED
[11:55] <Mez> from dapper sources
[11:55] <raphink> who said backports have to build without a change?
[11:55] <Mez> mdz
[11:55] <raphink> for what reason?
[11:56] <Mez> because - we havent been given permission to upload anything
[11:56] <Mez> it all has to be done from dapper sources.
[11:56] <Mez> theres no manual upload for backports atm
[11:56] <Mez> thats the way it was agreed since we became official
[11:56] <raphink> is there planned to be ?
[11:56] <Mez> only recently has that changed
[11:56] <Mez> and it isnt anything official yet
[11:56] <Mez> KDE in dapper at the moment is backportable
[11:57] <Mez> if we could backport it we would
[11:57] <raphink> yes I'm currently building it for breezy
[11:57] <Mez> it'll "backport" fine now
[11:57] <Mez> but it wouldnt before
[11:57] <raphink> is it planned to make it so that backports can be made for any package in the future?
[11:57] <raphink> like real backports
[11:57] <raphink> in a near future I mean
[11:58] <Mez> what do you mean "like real backports"
[11:58] <raphink> well I mean
[11:58] <raphink> breezy users would surely like to have KDE 3.5 backported
[11:58] <Mez> ] 
[11:58] <raphink> instead of using kubuntu.org for that
[11:58] <Mez> yes - and we've worked on that and it would be backported if it wasnt for soyuz being a PITA
[11:59] <raphink> so my question is : is it planned to make it so that backports can be done even when it requires to change the sources ?
[11:59] <raphink> i.e. from uploaded backported packages
[11:59] <Mez> raphink: yes in future as long as sponsored by a main dev
[11:59] <raphink> ic
[11:59] <raphink> I guess Riddell could sponsor for KDE packages then
[12:00] <raphink> if we have no other main dev at the time
[12:00] <Mez> I'm sure Riddell will... but thats not at the moment
[12:00] <raphink> mhm
[12:00] <raphink> what had to be changed in previous KDE versions to backport it to breezy?
[12:01] <raphink> that doen't need to be changed in current dapper version
[12:01] <Hobbsee> raphink: the deps?
[12:02] <raphink> Hobbsee: sure I guess, but more precisly ;)
[12:02] <Mez> raphink, well breezy you see has differnt packages
[12:02] <Hobbsee> kdelibs4c2a
[12:02] <Mez> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin//search_packages.pl?version=all&subword=0&exact=1&arch=any&releases=all&case=insensitive&keywords=kdelibs4c2&searchon=names
[12:02] <Mez> breezy
[12:02] <Mez> dapper: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin//search_packages.pl?version=all&subword=0&exact=1&arch=any&releases=all&case=insensitive&keywords=kdelibs4c2a&searchon=names
[12:02] <Mez> abi changes dude
[12:03] <raphink> yes I know that Mez
[12:03] <Mez> so you;re saying that thtat doesnt need to be changed
[12:03] <raphink> so the problem would be that apps in breezy are built to use kdelibs4c2
[12:03] <Mez> so that if it hadnt and was backported from dapper
[12:03] <raphink> instead of kdelibs4