[12:03] <raphink> so they won't work on top of kde built with kdelibs4 right?
[12:03] <Mez> everything that was in dapper would break because it depends on kdelibs4c2 instead of kdelibs4c2a
[12:04] <raphink> ok
[12:04] <raphink> well I got the point
[12:04] <raphink> so every kde app in breezy would have to be rebuilt on top of the new kde libs, which is not doable
[12:05] <Hobbsee> well, which is an awful lot of work, yeah
[12:05] <raphink> well not doable Hobbsee, since we don't want to provide all kde apps as backports ;)
[12:05] <Hobbsee> well, yeah
[12:05] <raphink> imo
[12:05] <Mez> raphink: finally you get it
[12:06] <raphink> Mez: sure :)
[12:06] <raphink> Hobbsee: hehe
[12:08] <Hobbsee> what are you growling about Mez?
[12:49] <Hobbsee_away> when did flight 4 come out?
[12:50] <Hobbsee_away> does anyone know, off the top of their head?
[12:50] <Tm_T> Hobbsee_away: well
[12:50] <Tm_T> kubuntu.org/announces.php
[12:50] <Tm_T> or something like that
[12:50] <Tm_T> ;(
[12:50] <Hobbsee_away> or ubuntu fridge, yeah
[12:51] <Hobbsee_away> how close are we to flight 5?
[12:52] <Tm_T> not close I think
[12:52] <Tm_T> 2 weeks
[12:53] <Hobbsee_away> hmmm oik
[12:53] <Hobbsee_away> might grab a daily cd then
[12:53] <Tm_T> yup
[12:54] <Tm_T> that's only guess, I have no idea =)
[01:36] <Hobbsee> Tm_T: 8 mins to go lol...
[01:36] <seaLne> to what?
[01:36] <Hobbsee> 67% done
[01:36] <Hobbsee> flight 4
[01:37] <seaLne> heh
[01:37] <Hobbsee> my dapper is nastily borking up, so i'll grab flight 4, rather than reinstalling off flight1
[01:37] <seaLne> i still can't logout without it hanging
[01:37] <Hobbsee> ugh
[01:37] <Hobbsee> i havent had that
[01:37] <seaLne> but it seems to save the session
[01:38] <seaLne> i end up with no apps or kicker but i cna still move the mouse
[01:38] <seaLne> and there were no no kde appr running before i tried to loggout
[01:38] <seaLne> non kde
[01:44] <Hobbsee> 97%...
[01:45] <seaLne> Riddell: monday for working espresso?
[01:45] <Hobbsee> it's done :D
[01:46] <seaLne> anyone tried it? not that i would try to till monday anyway but no point wasting cdr as its still too big too fit on my cdrs
[01:46] <seaLne> cdrws
[01:46] <seaLne> should probably order some 700Mb cdrws
[02:05] <Hobbsee> why does k3b not depend on cdrdao?
[02:50] <Hobbsee> this is very weird...
[02:56] <freeflying> Hobbsee: what's wired 
[02:57] <Hobbsee> freeflying: just some clients being booted out of #ubuntu from a worm thingo
[02:57] <freeflying> :)
[03:01] <Mez> Hobbsee, what clients ?
[03:01] <Mez> mIRC?
[03:01] <Mez> kill mIRC
[03:01] <Mez> :D
[03:01] <Mez> lol
[03:01] <Mez> (j/k)
[03:02] <Hobbsee> konversation build 3100
[03:02] <Hobbsee> irssi
[03:08] <jdong> Hobbsee: does your network use any Symantec IDS products?
[03:08] <jdong> or their networks
[03:09] <jdong> might be more people trying the damn you-know-what command
[03:09] <Hobbsee> jdong: er, nope, only ezantivirus on teh main computer, firewall on here...unless furhter upstream than that
[03:09] <Hobbsee> what, the darned "start[k] eylogger" or something?
[03:09] <jdong> Hobbsee: yeah, that
[03:09] <jdong> I've seen it quite a bit today
[03:10] <Hobbsee> good thing i found out about that last night
[03:10] <jdong> especially since the issue was slashdotted
[03:10] <Hobbsee> very true
[03:10] <jdong> and I'm getting packet logs of a worm doing that, too
[03:10] <jdong> or at least some batch script
[03:10] <freeflying> Mez: how about backport skim 
[03:10] <jdong> freeflying: ABI transition; not possible
[03:10] <Mez> freeflying, we've been through this
[03:10] <freeflying> :(
[03:10] <Mez> freeflying, waiting for Adam to see why my control hack isnt working
[03:11] <jdong> Mez, can you backport KDE? ;)
[03:11] <Mez> then I'll backport scim
[03:11] <Mez> jdong: yes and no
[03:11] <Mez> yes - it's backportable
[03:11] <Mez> no: cause backports arent in place in soyuz atm
[03:11] <freeflying> Mez: actrually ,scim just have binary name changes
[03:11] <jdong> I wonder if the new readahead mechanism works....
[03:11] <Mez> freeflying, I know...
[03:11] <Mez> freeflying, we've been through this how many times.
[03:12] <Mez> as I said - waiting for Adam to find out why the control hack inst working
[03:12] <Mez> then I can backport it
[03:12] <freeflying> Mez: there are many request on that here
[03:12] <Mez> freeflying, I KNOW
[03:12] <freeflying> Mez: so I'd ask u for that ,  :)
[03:12] <Mez> WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS .. *counts* ... 7 TIMES ALREADY
[03:13] <jdong> freeflying: startkeylogge[r] 
[03:13] <jdong> damn too bad that doesn't do selective boots!
[03:13] <freeflying> jdong: startkeylogge[r] ?
[03:14] <jdong> freeflying: the uncensored command is interpreted by all Symantec IDSes as a worm; 30-minute auto IP ban, disconnect from IRC
[03:15] <Mez> o_O
[03:15] <jdong> pretty nasty
[03:15] <jdong> we had a field day today at school
[03:15] <jdong> some kids figured it out
[03:15] <jdong> and started sending udp packets flying around
[03:16] <jdong> and before we knew it the switch had a block rule for 10.0.0.0-10.255.255.255
[03:16] <jdong> that was fun to fix :)
[03:16] <jdong> funny thing about telnet not working when it's being banned :)
[03:16] <freeflying> jdong: hmm
[03:17] <jdong> freeflying: please don't go around random IRC channels testing this
[03:17] <jdong> freeflying: they get very pissed, and rightfully so
[03:17] <freeflying> lol
[03:17] <Mez> jdong:same could be said for you
[03:18] <jdong> Mez: I wouldn't do that :)
[03:18] <jdong> Mez: I had my fair share of this bug today; sick of it
[03:18] <freeflying> iot's need 3 hrs to grab espresso source from kubntu.org
[03:18] <jdong> Mez: it's amusing the first few times it happens... but when a 1500-port firewall+switch goes down.... grr
[03:18] <jdong> freeflying: bzr?
[03:18] <freeflying> jdong: ya
[03:19] <jdong> freeflying: yeah; bzr branch ain't the fastest command :)
[03:19] <jdong> its bzr's damn slow network code
[03:19] <jdong> they don't believe in persistent connections
[03:19] <freeflying> jdong: maybe I'd use wget instead
[03:19] <jdong> the poor apache at the other side!
[03:20] <freeflying> can you use BT adaptors under dapper ?
[03:20] <Mez> jdong: filed a bug yet ?
[03:21] <jdong> Mez: they don't care; it's been brought up on the bzr mailing list and IRC channel time after time
[03:21] <jdong> Mez: they say that it's against their philosophy for some silly reasons
[03:21] <jdong> freeflying: there's 917 revisions! It's not going to be fast
[03:21] <jdong> mine estimates 1 hour
[03:21] <jdong> which is pretty damn reasonable for a tree that size
[03:21] <jdong> 15 minutes now
[03:22] <freeflying> 2 hrs now 
[03:41] <Mez> hey seth|lappy 
[04:01] <jdong> by now, bzr missing probably shows a couple more revisions :D
[04:04] <Mez> lol
[10:37] <Tonio_> hello
[10:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: ping ?
[11:39] <mdke> hi there.
[11:39] <jpatrick> hello mdke 
[11:39] <mdke> does anyone know when kubuntu-desktop is likely to be installable on dapper? I'd like to try it out
[11:40] <jpatrick> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/InstallingKDE
[11:41] <mdke> *click*
[11:42] <mdke> jpatrick, ok, kde-core is there. "kde" isn't though :-(
[11:42] <jpatrick> it's in universe
[11:42] <mdke> ah right
[11:42] <mdke> i'll do kde-core and kubuntu-default-settings for now
[11:43] <freeflying> mdke: what's kde-core
[11:43] <mdke> freeflying, https://wiki.kubuntu.org/InstallingKDE
[11:44] <mdke> jpatrick, thanks for your help. I'll be back later
[11:44] <freeflying> mdke: how about the space abhout kde-kore
[11:45] <jpatrick> Riddell: I think k-d-s needs update: openoffice.org2-kde => openoffice.org-kde (Fixes: mdke's problem)
[11:46] <freeflying> amu: ping
[11:46] <jpatrick> ^^ that's kubuntu-desktop I meant
[12:25] <kmon> hi
[12:25] <Hobbsee> hey kmon 
[12:54] <Flosoft> hey
[12:54] <hunger> hi
[12:54] <Flosoft> does anyone here know how to set an IP as op automatically?
[12:55] <hunger> Flosoft: Please use #ubuntu for this kind of questions.
[02:54] <Tm_T> hm hmm hmmmm
[02:54] <jpat|away> what?
[02:55] <Tm_T> just wondering
[02:58] <jpat|away> not a lot
[02:59] <mdke> Tm_T, http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
[03:00] <Tm_T> bah
[03:01] <Tm_T> " sustained level of contribution "
[03:01] <Tm_T> ;(
[03:02] <jpat|away> Tm_T: I'll classify in that place
[03:03] <Tm_T> btw
[03:04] <Tm_T> jpat|away: you see? how they expect everyone understand italian ;(
[03:04] <Tm_T> it's just dont make any sense
[03:04] <jpat|away> I do spanish and catalan but that's it
[03:05] <Tm_T> you mean castilian and catalan?
[03:05] <jpat|away> yes
[03:05] <Tm_T> aye
[03:05] <jpat|away> at least the girls here are nice
[03:05] <mdke> what italian?
[03:05] <Tm_T> Finnish/English/Swedish here... though still trying to learn cymraeg
[03:06] <jpat|away> Welsh?
[03:06] <Tm_T> aye
[03:06] <jpat|away> I know a bit of that
[03:06] <Tm_T> heh
[03:06] <Tm_T> I don't
[03:06] <jpat|away> my grandmother was from Swansea
[03:06] <Tm_T> I learn something, I forget, I learn something, I forget...
[03:07] <jpat|away> ^^ hear hear
[03:07] <freeflying> T
[03:07] <freeflying> Tm_T: chinese 
[03:07] <Tm_T> I'm too old to learn I afraid...
[03:07] <Tm_T> ;(
[03:07] <Tm_T> freeflying: HEY!
[03:07] <Tm_T> freeflying: wanna have jingle support to Kopete?!
[03:07] <freeflying> Tm_T: wanna to learn chinese ?
[03:08] <Tm_T> nope
[03:08] <freeflying> Tm_T: can it works now 
[03:08] <Tm_T> freeflying: I just package ortp, that's it
[03:09] <freeflying> Tm_T: I'd like to try later
[03:09] <Tm_T> but maybe I have to make sure it doesn't overwrite/conflict with ubuntu's ortp
[03:09] <Tm_T> freeflying: aye, that will be with beta packages, so it's not yet
[03:10] <freeflying> Tm_T: :)
[03:34] <tonio_> raphink:  ?
[03:35] <raphink> yop tonio_
[03:35] <tonio_> Riddell: ping ?
[03:36] <raphink> hmmm
[03:36] <jpat|away> hmm just pinging alot
[03:36] <raphink> ping jpat|away
[03:36] <tonio_> jpat|away: this is because it is important
[03:36] <jpat|away> not here
[03:36] <tonio_> very important
[03:36] <jpat|away> ;)
[03:43] <jpat|away> so tell us...
[03:43] <tonio_> jpat|away: well, I saw we had HUDGE bugs with kde
[03:44] <tonio_> so I deceided to reinstall properly the latest dapper flight 4
[03:44] <tonio_> here is the result :
[03:44] <tonio_> kdeprint doesn't work and crashes while connecting to cups
[03:44] <jpat|away> known
[03:44] <tonio_> I don't have any sound
[03:44] <tonio_> etc.....
[03:44] <tonio_> I installed gnome, to have a look
[03:45] <raphink> jpat|away: known is the your answer ???
[03:45] <tonio_> everythings is perfect
[03:45] <raphink> jpat|away: how can "known" be your answer ?
[03:45] <raphink> how good is it for users to have an OS with known bugs ?
[03:45] <tonio_> kde 3.5.1 is a PAIN
[03:45] <tonio_> the most buggy DM on earth actually
[03:45] <raphink> that's what I said weeks go
[03:45] <raphink> ago
[03:45] <jpat|away> I thought they were working on it...
[03:45] <raphink> jpat|away: kde devs are working on kde 4
[03:45] <raphink> they're not interested in kde 3.5
[03:45] <raphink> that is a fact
[03:46] <tonio_> and my feeling is that if we don't discuss with kde right now, dapper kubuntu will be as buggy as breezy, or maybe more
[03:46] <raphink> there are HUGE bugs in main apps
[03:46] <raphink> that have been unfixed for months
[03:46] <raphink> the KDE BTS is the worse in the world
[03:46] <tonio_> jpat|away: and I must say I'm a bit sick of using an unstable DM
[03:46] <raphink> when you search for a bug you find bugs in KDE 2.3 or so
[03:46] <tonio_> actually kubuntu can be considered as an alpha
[03:46] <tonio_> not more
[03:46] <tonio_> and release is in 5 weeks
[03:46] <jpat|away> true
[03:46] <raphink> KDE 3.5.1 was supposed to be a bugfix
[03:47] <tonio_> raphink: ++
[03:47] <raphink> there are more huge bugs in 3.5.1 than in 3.5.0
[03:47] <tonio_> by far
[03:47] <raphink> I've looked at the sources for some apps in kdebase or so
[03:47] <tonio_> jpat|away: how can I get sound with gnome and not kde ?
[03:47] <tonio_> because kde 3.5.1 is a pain
[03:47] <raphink> between 3.5.0 and 3.5.1 many stuff have been added
[03:47] <raphink> I don't call that a bugfix
[03:47] <tonio_> we need help of kde developpers for kubuntu
[03:47] <raphink> I'm happy to integrate kde into kubuntu just as long as we can have a REAL stable version of KDE
[03:48] <tonio_> because if we don't, kubuntu will be shit, and kde will appear in the feeling of people like a big buffshit
[03:48] <raphink> and there has been none since KDE 3.4.2
[03:48] <tonio_> everyone in kubuntu and kde cold have regrets
[03:48] <raphink> since kde 3.4.2, KDE devs add lots of new stuff to KDE and seem to forget about debugging what's already there
[03:48] <tonio_> because I must say I'm jalous when i see the exceptionnal quality of ubuntu
[03:48] <raphink> they're too focused on what's next and not on making what's here work
[03:49] <tonio_> jpat|away: kde4, that's all they can say
[03:49] <raphink> I'd like to be able to say to people : install Kubuntu, it works great
[03:49] <tonio_> kde4 will bee god + jesus + mary
[03:49] <raphink> but the reason why I can't is because there are huge bugs are not kubuntu specific, but KDE-wide
[03:49] <tonio_> kde4 will be more stable than the solar system etc........
[03:49] <tonio_> but kde4 will not be mature before at least 18 month
[03:49] <raphink> tonio_: yep
[03:49] <tonio_> are we going to release 3 buggy version of kubuntu since then ?
[03:50] <raphink> and in the meanwhile we get to build kubuntu with an horribly bugged version of kde
[03:50] <tonio_> the bts is completly unusable
[03:50] <tonio_> kde dev don't use it
[03:50] <tonio_> there are major bugs that have chaneg status for 6 month at least
[03:50] <tonio_> new features are pain in the ass
[03:50] <tonio_> systemapplet is causing many problems
[03:50] <tonio_> kate is becoming unusable
[03:50] <tonio_> damn !
[03:51] <tonio_> we need to ask help of kde for kubuntu
[03:51] <tonio_> because this will help both kubuntu and kde
[03:51] <tonio_> and if we don't, kubuntu will be released with horrible bugs
[03:51] <tonio_> like breezy
[03:51] <OculusAquilae> tonio_: right
[03:52] <tonio_> and will discredit itself and kde
[03:52] <raphink> I'll be honnest on a few things
[03:52] <tonio_> I can't imagin that we have a pre alpha actually while releasing in 5 weeks only
[03:52] <raphink> if KDE 3.5.2 gets in Kubuntu two weeks before dapper, I'll stop contributing to Kubuntu and will focus on GNOME
[03:52] <tonio_> jpat|away: can you imagin I'm considering switching to gnome for my laptop ?
[03:52] <raphink> cause I don't want to end up with an alpha release of Kubuntu as "stable"
[03:52] <tonio_> I use it for work, and it is almost unsuable, with breezy or dapper
[03:53] <raphink> and if KDE devs don't make a real debug of KDE 3.5
[03:53] <raphink> focusing on important bugs 
[03:53] <raphink> I'll switch to GNOME too
[03:53] <tonio_> raphink: unless kde 3.5.2 is a REAL bugfix release
[03:53] <raphink> cause I love KDE but I'm tired of not being able to print, losing my contacts everyday and my kontact settings
[03:53] <tonio_> not a bugfix with 40kB diff on a 30kB ccp file.........
[03:53] <raphink> tonio_: I doubt it can be though
[03:53] <Tm_T> ahhaha!
[03:54] <raphink> Tm_T: what's funny?
[03:54] <tonio_> kontact and kmail have known bugs that haven't be touched for month
[03:54] <Tm_T> http://www.tm-travolta.net/shots/current.png
[03:54] <Tm_T> just look the font in Konsole
[03:55] <tonio_> really I'm affraid
[03:55] <tonio_> Riddell has 1000 things to do
[03:55] <raphink> Tm_T: I don't understand finnish
[03:56] <tonio_> I can help as much as I can, but if kubuntu gets only 10% help of canonical that ubuntu has
[03:56] <freeflying> tonio_: not only kubuntu release with 3.5.1 , but also many other distros 
[03:56] <Tm_T> raphink: doesn't matter, look that font, so small and yet sharp
[03:56] <hunger> tonio_T There are other small bugs all over the place.
[03:56] <tonio_> that we don't get cpp devel soon, and if kde doesn't seem to be able to make a real debug release
[03:56] <tonio_> what will result is a crappy distro
[03:56] <tonio_> nothing else
[03:56] <raphink> freeflying: so it'll be bad for all distros based on it
[03:56] <tonio_> sorry for this, but I'm saying this because I LOVE kubuntu
[03:57] <tonio_> freeflying: true
[03:57] <OculusAquilae> right
[03:57] <tonio_> all distros keep kde 3.4.2
[03:57] <tonio_> why ?
[03:57] <tonio_> because all other releases are pain
[03:57] <amu> well, the birds sing, kubuntu get help with an icon artist ?!? 
[03:57] <Tm_T> ?!
[03:57] <tonio_> kde 3.5 was supposed to be the most mature, stable and efficient version of kde
[03:57] <raphink> amu: that is not what we need sorry
[03:57] <tonio_> the result is one of the most unstable (if not THE one) dm on earth
[03:58] <tonio_> windows xp is by far more stable
[03:58] <Tm_T> amu: I heard small things about that too
[03:58] <jdong> tonio_: I disagree. All distros keep 3.4.2 because they were released with 3.4.2 and upgrading to 3.5 in between releases is against their policy
[03:58] <Tm_T> amu: but nothing official yet ;(
[03:58] <jdong> tonio_: I have no issues with my KDE
[03:58] <freeflying> tonio_: actually , canonical care too few on kubuntu, so riddell shall ask for more help from canonical
[03:58] <tonio_> jdong: false
[03:58] <tonio_> gentoo was released 2 days ago
[03:58] <amu> Tm_T: :) 
[03:58] <tonio_> with kde 3.4
[03:58] <tonio_> not 3.5
[03:58] <raphink> jdong: can you use kdeprint?
[03:58] <raphink> jdong: what happens to your contacts when you close kontact with a mail still open?
[03:59] <jdong> tonio_: Gentoo does not have enough developer resources; they stabilize VERY conservatively
[03:59] <jpat|away> tonio_: gentoo is never released, they just upgrade
[03:59] <raphink> jdong: can you use your contacts from kaddressbook in kmail ?
[03:59] <amu> raphink: i guess the situation is not good  
[03:59] <jpat|away> raphink: I can
[03:59] <tonio_> jdong: okay, so everything is fine then ;)
[03:59] <jdong> print: working
[03:59] <tonio_> cool !
[03:59] <hunger> tonio_: I currently have 3 bugs open which are trivial to fix, but have not been touched in a week or more:-( Too bad that the kubuntu devs are so busy:-(
[03:59] <raphink> jdong: can you launch kded without getting a thousand error windows to click?
[03:59] <tonio_> jdong: do you use dapper ?
[03:59] <raphink> and losing cookies support in konqueror at the same time
[03:59] <jdong> YES
[04:00] <raphink> jdong: do you have an up-to-date dapper system?
[04:00] <tonio_> jdong: can't be possible
[04:00] <tonio_> I have kdeprint failing on 5 machines
[04:00] <raphink> jdong: we tested all these bugs on several machines with kde 3.5.1
[04:00] <raphink> even on newly installed boxes
[04:00] <raphink> they are there
[04:00] <jdong> that's strange....
[04:00] <jdong> I just dist-upgraded this morning
[04:00] <tonio_> it can work if you change the cups address in the properties, to locakhost
[04:00] <tonio_> then install a printer discarding the error messages
[04:00] <raphink> jdong: the kdeprint bug is even present in DF4
[04:00] <jdong> how else do you configure CUPS?
[04:00] <tonio_> and then, yes, I agree it works
[04:00] <raphink> so it's more than 20 days old
[04:01] <jpat|away> hunger++
[04:01] <tonio_> jdong: I installed flight4 this morning
[04:01] <jdong> hunger: developers too lazy to make _binary_ packages :)
[04:01] <tonio_> just perfomed dist-upgrade
[04:01] <tonio_> rebooted, and that doesn't work
[04:01] <tonio_> jdong: maybe that works because you have a breezy updated to dapper
[04:01] <tonio_> I had sound with my breezy-dapper
[04:01] <jdong> well, maybe my KDE install is just an anomaly then; I upgraded from Breezy to Dapper a few months back, and dist-upgrade weekly
[04:01] <tonio_> with a fresh dapper I don't
[04:02] <tonio_> that's the reason
[04:02] <jdong> tonio_: it may be a problem limited to fresh installs
[04:02] <hunger> jdong: They do not make them themselves: They do build-scripts and have a compiler do the building;-)
[04:02] <tonio_> jdong: go with a fresh install
[04:02] <tonio_> yes jdong, but that is a MAJOR issue
[04:02] <raphink> jdong: no it's not. I had a breezy -> dapper that failed too
[04:02] <jdong> tonio_: I'd rather keep my working KDE, thank you very much :)
[04:02] <amu> btw. greetings from the kubuntu-stand at linuxtag chemnitz :)
[04:02] <raphink> amu: :)
[04:02] <freeflying> amu: hi
[04:02] <hunger> amu: Say hi to sven guckes if you meet him.
[04:02] <raphink> jdong: we are on #kubuntu-devel here, not on #kubuntu
[04:03] <raphink> jdong: what matters is not that your box luckily works
[04:03] <jdong> raphink: I understand.
[04:03] <raphink> jdong: what matters is that all kubuntu systems should work out of the box
[04:03] <freeflying> amu: how about your livecd
[04:03] <raphink> and it's not the case
[04:03] <raphink> when you install dapper right now, you get LOTS of HUGE bugs in KDE
[04:03] <raphink> we are one month and a half from release
[04:03] <hunger> raphink: Same happened with breezy, too.
[04:04] <raphink> hunger: kubuntu breezy was a mistake
[04:04] <tonio_> another example
[04:04] <raphink> we don't want to do that mistake again
[04:04] <raphink> I believe
[04:04] <hunger> raphink: So far I am convident that dapper might work after all.
[04:04] <amu> hunger: yeah :) will do  
[04:04] <tonio_> systemsettings is nox in kubuntu for 6 month at least
[04:04] <tonio_> it has BIG bugs
[04:04] <tonio_> none of them is resolved actually
[04:04] <OculusAquilae> right
[04:04] <tonio_> because Riddell doesn't have time for this (and I understand that)
[04:04] <raphink> hunger: kubuntu breezy is almost unusable for production without an immediate dist-upgrade 
[04:05] <tonio_> he is actually project manager, packageur, integrator, developper plus many more
[04:05] <hunger> raphink: I dist-upgraded to dapper right after breezy;-)
[04:05] <amu> freeflying: yeah, if linuxtag ends, i've time :) last week was fosdem, this weekend linuxtag :)  
[04:06] <tonio_> we have to implement without the promissed help of canonical a bugging desktop manager, with only a very few people knowing cpp
[04:06] <tonio_> that's simply not possible
[04:06] <raphink> hunger: what are we talking about here? is kubuntu aimed to devs or to normal users ?
[04:06] <hunger> raphink: I do not care as long as it works for me.
[04:06] <tonio_> I don't blame canonical at all, but I remember mark saying he wanted kubuntu to become the same first class distro than ubuntu
[04:07] <tonio_> this is not going to happen actually
[04:07] <raphink> hunger: do you call yourself a kubuntu developer?
[04:07] <tonio_> I'm just reallistic
[04:07] <hunger> raphink: No. I am a kubuntu-user only.
[04:07] <raphink> hunger: ok 
[04:07] <raphink> tonio_: I totally agree
[04:07] <raphink> we cannot make kubuntu a good distro right now if KDE devs don't spend a month fixing bugs 
[04:07] <raphink> that won't happen
[04:08] <tonio_> and maybe if we don't receive a little help from canonical
[04:08] <hunger> tonio_: For the protocol: Riddell is doing an amazing job!
[04:08] <tonio_> hunger: of course
[04:08] <raphink> hunger: nobody said he is not
[04:08] <tonio_> hunger: I didn't say it because it is de facto logic
[04:08] <tonio_> Riddell is doing crazu stuff, it is simply incredible
[04:08] <hunger> raphink: Currently everybody in the kde-camp is starring at the promissed land kde 4:-(
[04:08] <tonio_> but he is so alone to implement a bugging DM
[04:09] <raphink> hunger: we we're not to release kde4 hee
[04:09] <raphink> here
[04:09] <amu> dudes dont forget kubuntu is a project, where YOU all decide :) 
[04:09] <raphink> I excepct we release a stable kubuntu verzsion with dapper
[04:09] <raphink> but that won't happen if all kde devs are busy playing on kde4
[04:09] <amu> if YOU decide kubuntu isnt ready dont release  
[04:09] <raphink> I can also go prepare dapper+1 right now
[04:09] <tonio_> I'm blaming kde for releasing fake bugfix releases
[04:09] <hunger> raphink: Yeap, but whenever I talk to some kde person and criticise something I get to hear "It will be fixed/changed/replaced in kde 4 anyway".
[04:09] <tonio_> not Riddell......
[04:10] <raphink> hunger: ok fine then, I'll switch to GNOME and I'll be back to Kubuntu when it's time to integrate kde4
[04:10] <tonio_> hunger: kde4 is called to be jesus, god, everything you want
[04:10] <hunger> raphink: I tried that... but gnome is sooooo annoying:-(
[04:10] <tonio_> so it means we have to wait 18 month with a pain to get something stable ?
[04:11] <raphink> hunger: I don't like GNOME, but it WORKS!
[04:11] <raphink> it just works
[04:11] <hunger> tonio_: That is my impression... :-(
[04:11] <jpat|away> tonio_: I thought it was 10
[04:11] <tonio_> I will use gnome instead of waiting.......
[04:11] <tonio_> jpat|away: in theory it is 10
[04:11] <hunger> raphink: Not for me... and I tried hard to make it work for me:-(
[04:11] <freeflying> raphink: kde can works too, just with bugs  hmm
[04:11] <tonio_> jpat|away: that means 12 to 14
[04:11] <raphink> freeflying: lol
[04:11] <tonio_> to get a first version
[04:11] <raphink> freeflying: sorry, I had too many problems with kde 3.5.1 to say it works
[04:11] <tonio_> and as a first version is never exempted of bugs
[04:11] <tonio_> it means 18 for something stable
[04:12] <tonio_> technically, thinking it will be less is a dream only
[04:12] <raphink> yes
[04:12] <raphink> and kde4 is to have lots of new features
[04:12] <raphink> therefore lots of bugs to fix
[04:12] <freeflying> raphink: true, but we can not affect kde-devs too much for bug fixing 
[04:12] <raphink> freeflying: sure then let's stop trying to integrate kde 3.5 then
[04:13] <tonio_> freeflying: do they want kubuntu, one of the 2 or 3 most popular kde distros, to be released with bug like this ?
[04:13] <raphink> freeflying: I don't really like it to be trying to provide users a bugging system, with absent upstream, busy releasing next version
[04:13] <tonio_> that is not only a problem for kubuntu, but for kde too
[04:13] <tonio_> gnome in increasing very fast
[04:13] <freeflying> raphink: tonio_ but it is better than no kubuntu release 
[04:13] <raphink> freeflying: no
[04:13] <tonio_> it is stable, works, and lots of people are just fine with it
[04:13] <raphink> freeflying: I don't agree
[04:14] <tonio_> otherwise, ubuntu wouldn't be that incredible success
[04:14] <raphink> freeflying: let's get the fact, I've put kubuntu breezy with kde 3.5.1 to my mom and sister
[04:14] <freeflying> raphink: suse can use it , also mdv , fc , why can't we 
[04:14] <tonio_> freeflying: I prefer something stable to something that is not
[04:14] <raphink> freeflying: my mom has lost her contacts 20 times this month
[04:14] <jpat|away> raphink: that is annoying when KAB moves the contact file
[04:15] <tonio_> freeflying: neither suse, nor mandriva implemented 3.5
[04:15] <tonio_> and they probably won't
[04:15] <OculusAquilae> they didn't?
[04:15] <hunger> tonio_: Sorry, I do not see gnome getting closer. It is far ahead of kde wrt. hardware support and zeroconf, but far behind anywhere else.
[04:15] <raphink> hunger: it doesn't crash as much
[04:15] <freeflying> tonio_: opensuse also test on 3.5.1 now 
[04:16] <raphink> freeflying: I doubt it will release with it anytime soon though
[04:16] <raphink> unless they have kde devs within their team to fix all the bugs
[04:16] <OculusAquilae> suse should have problems too
[04:16] <raphink> OculusAquilae: they will 
[04:16] <hunger> raphink: maybe, but it doesn't do basic stuff like supporting the Win key in key combos, etc. That means relearning all key-combos for me.
[04:17] <raphink> haha
[04:17] <hunger> raphink: And evo is plain unusable compared to kmail.
[04:17] <freeflying> raphink: tonio_ we shall ask canonical for more care on kubuntu 
[04:17] <raphink> freeflying: totally agreed 
[04:17] <hunger> raphink: Not to speak of dev tools like kdevelop, umbrello, etc.
[04:17] <raphink> freeflying: mark promised some help on kubuntu
[04:17] <raphink> freeflying: why aren't they hiring another main dev for KDE ?
[04:17] <freeflying> raphink: we'd poke him 
[04:17] <raphink> there are 3 devs on GNOME
[04:17] <raphink> only 1 on KDE
[04:17] <freeflying> although he have promised
[04:18] <OculusAquilae> and ask the suse and kde guys
[04:18] <freeflying> OculusAquilae: ask suse guys for whay ?
[04:18] <OculusAquilae> to show the kde guys that they are doing something wrong
[04:19] <raphink> some things have been posted before kde4 dev began 
[04:19] <freeflying> OculusAquilae: they not paid employee of suse or any comp at all
[04:19] <raphink> to tell kde devs not to rush into kde4 dev
[04:19] <tonio_> raphink: only one on kde, when kde is much more complex and buggy that gnome
[04:19] <hunger> OculusAquilae: Well, fixing bugs is boooring compared to working on cool-new-stuff(TM).
[04:19] <tonio_> means to have the equivalent, we should get 4 to 5 personns only
[04:19] <raphink> hunger: what do you work on?
[04:20] <raphink> hunger: what is your contribution on cool-new-stuff?
[04:20] <hunger> raphink: Nothing...
[04:20] <freeflying> hunger: I think hunger may just tell a truth 
[04:20] <tonio_> I would prefer the kde crew to spend 3 month debugging kde and wait three month more for kde4
[04:20] <tonio_> no pb for me with that
[04:20] <raphink> tonio_: ++
[04:20] <hunger> raphink: Currently I am playing with gcc to make it issue warnings according to the MISRA standard... talking about boring stuff;-)
[04:20] <tonio_> I'm sure, 1 month could be enought to provide a good debug
[04:21] <OculusAquilae> tonio_++
[04:21] <tonio_> but they don't give a f**k on kde 3.5
[04:21] <tonio_> sorry, but that's my real feeling
[04:21] <freeflying> tonio_: they can not stop , u know there is gnome , so they want keep with gnome 
[04:21] <raphink> I think if KDE devs spent the 20 days before 3.5.2 debugging 
[04:21] <raphink> it would be a GREAT help
[04:21] <hunger> Maybe we could skip kubuntu-dapper and go for kde4?
[04:22] <hunger> That way we would get upstream support;-)
[04:22] <tonio_> freeflying: what ?
[04:22] <freeflying> raphink: only kde-devs may not do all debugging
[04:22] <tonio_> I don't ask for canonical to stop with gnome ;)
[04:22] <raphink> freeflying: KDE and GNOME are not competing, that is a clich
[04:22] <tonio_> I'm just saying that I read, everywhere kubuntu would get great support, and that didn't happen
[04:23] <freeflying> tonio_: so poke canonical or mark for that 
[04:23] <hunger> tonio_: At least in the *ubuntu environment they are: the ubuntu-devs change stuff without even considering the impact on (k|x)ubuntu.
[04:23] <hunger> tonio_: But that might be my impression only...
[04:23] <tonio_> as good as Riddell can be, and as much as we help, that's not enough to deal with a bugging and complex desktop manager
[04:23] <tonio_> if kde was stable, that could be okay
[04:24] <tonio_> but that's not the real life.......
[04:24] <tonio_> hunger: +++
[04:24] <tonio_> everything is done thinking of gnome
[04:24] <tonio_> I don't mind, that's okay
[04:24] <hunger> tonio_: frankly: I do not feel much initiative to help with *ubuntu...
[04:24] <tonio_> they can do what they want
[04:25] <tonio_> hunger: but it has been promissed
[04:25] <tonio_> if nothing had been said, I wouldn't mind
[04:25] <hunger> tonio_: I am talking about my initiative to help you devs.
[04:25] <hunger> tonio_: I never promissed anything;-)
[04:25] <freeflying> tonio_: mark also promised give us support for working on BetterCJKSupport
[04:25] <tonio_> I think we really need to take great decisions this WE, of kubuntu will be, like breezy, a bug fatory on release
[04:25] <raphink> hunger: mark promised
[04:26] <hunger> tonio_: I have bugreports 43 weeks old and basically ignored.
[04:26] <tonio_> hunger: I don't talk about you, hehe
[04:26] <tonio_> :)
[04:26] <freeflying> tonio_: but we have not any yet now 
[04:26] <hunger> tonio_: That ruins my motivation to send pathes via the bugtracker.
[04:26] <tonio_> hunger: yes
[04:26] <raphink> just hiring one KDE dev in canonical might help
[04:26] <tonio_> and we need to flame kde for this
[04:26] <tonio_> they need to change that if they want to work efficiently
[04:27] <tonio_> the kde BTS is the crappiest peace of web application I've seen in my life
[04:27] <tonio_> hunger: make a search for a bug
[04:27] <hunger> tonio_: To be fair: the 43week bugreport is for ubuntu and pitti did look into it.
[04:27] <tonio_> you get 20 pages of feature request dating 2001-2002
[04:27] <freeflying> raphink: it's canonical's duty to hire a kde-dev 
[04:27] <_Sime> tonio_: BTW, I've been working on some of the bugs in systemsettings.
[04:27] <hunger> tonio_: LP is not great either.
[04:27] <tonio_> that's a joke to me
[04:27] <raphink> freeflying: whose duty is it?
[04:28] <raphink> freeflying: oh sorry yes yo'ure right :)
[04:28] <freeflying> raphink: canonical
[04:28] <tonio_> _Sime: systemsettings was just an example
[04:28] <raphink> freeflying: but when is it to happen ?
[04:28] <freeflying> raphink: same as above , we'd poke canonical or mark, instead disscuss here
[04:29] <tonio_> I just saw, this morning, on a fresh and updated kubuntu, that I don't have any sound, I can't print
[04:29] <tonio_> kontact bugs
[04:29] <tonio_> and I can use bluetooth only because I myself resolved the bug
[04:29] <raphink> freeflying: if there's just one kubuntu dev poking canonical I'm not sure it'll work though. We need to be all in this
[04:29] <tonio_> the problem is that I could accept that 3 month ago
[04:29] <raphink> freeflying: I asked Riddell some time ago and he said canonical had no plan to hire anyone for Kubuntu
[04:29] <tonio_> but we are supposed to about beta 2 level
[04:29] <tonio_> rc1 maybe
[04:29] <tonio_> not pre-alpha
[04:30] <freeflying> raphink:  just poke them , let them know the truth 
[04:30] <hunger> tonio_: So skip kubuntu/dapper.
[04:30] <raphink> right
[04:30] <hunger> tonio_: No sense in releasing unfinished business.
[04:31] <OculusAquilae> right
[04:31] <raphink> yes
[04:31] <raphink> hunger: I've been tracking bugs in KDE, trying to fix them
[04:31] <raphink> but
[04:31] <raphink> 1) I don't know cpp enough
[04:31] <raphink> 2) I don't know how the app is built 
[04:32] <raphink> I think the best person to fix a bug is the author of the program
[04:32] <hunger> tonio_: Basically all of my collegues swithed to gnome because kubuntu/breezy was too buggy.
[04:32] <tonio_> raphink: ++
[04:32] <OculusAquilae> raphlink: ++
[04:32] <hunger> raphink: What is the problem with cpp?
[04:32] <jpat|away> raphink ++
[04:32] <tonio_> hunger: yes
[04:32] <tonio_> but breezy wasn't mature
[04:32] <tonio_> only the wecond version
[04:32] <hunger> raphink Just ask, I think I can help with that.
[04:32] <tonio_> can be called an accident
[04:32] <hunger> tonio_: So will dapper be better?
[04:32] <raphink> hunger: I will spend 5 days trying to fix a kontact bug that can be fixed in 4 hours by its dev
[04:32] <tonio_> hunger: it HAS TO be different with dapper
[04:33] <hunger> tonio_: Frankly: I doubt that.
[04:33] <freeflying> wow time to beds , nite all
[04:33] <tonio_> I've contributed as much as I could
[04:33] <raphink> night freeflying
[04:33] <tonio_> improving the desktop, packaging apps, resolving bugs (when I can)
[04:33] <hunger> tonio_: Yes, I do appreciate your work.
[04:33] <tonio_> but I have the feeling that this is not of any use if we have a crappy base
[04:33] <tonio_> having good fonts ? nice, but I can't print
[04:33] <freeflying> raphink: btw if you poke canonical or mark , include me  :)
[04:33] <raphink> hunger: integrating kde 3.5 into kubuntu feels like fighting mills
[04:34] <raphink> freeflying: ok :)
[04:34] <tonio_> having cool desktop with nice konq settings ? nice, but kontact lost all my contacts
[04:34] <raphink> ;)
[04:34] <raphink> tonio_: kmail can't use your contacts from kaddressbook anyway so ... ;)
[04:35] <hunger> tonio_: "it HAS TO be" won't make things work.
[04:35] <raphink> you can lose them, it won't harm 
[04:35] <raphink> hehe
[04:35] <tonio_> hunger: this is the reason we are discussing of what to do here
[04:35] <raphink> hunger: I can't fix these huge bugs, tonio can't either, riddell is too busy, \sh is not here atm
[04:35] <raphink> hunger: who is to fix them ?
[04:35] <raphink> if not kde devs
[04:35] <tonio_> if raphink and I wouldn't be flaming the channel, nobody would care, and simply wait for the buggy relase to come out
[04:36] <hunger> hunger: kde devs or nobody... but then you should not have kubuntu/dapper.
[04:36] <tonio_> except of course Riddell who cares more than everyone else, but missing 4 arms and 2 brains to do the job....
[04:38] <tonio_> the problem is that we need core-devs to ask for help, and only riddell here is part of canonical and has good contacts in the kde-devel crew
[04:38] <jpat|away> what about amu?
[04:39] <raphink> well apachelogger, too
[04:39] <tonio_> so we need to discuss with of the problem, not to fleme, but to think efficiently, and try to get the best for kubuntu because we all love it
[04:39] <tonio_> raphink: true, I forgot
[04:41] <jpat|away> now that you come to mention him, I haven't since him for a while
[04:43] <tonio_> I mean, we don't have 200 bugs to reolve
[04:43] <tonio_> 5 to 10 only
[04:43] <tonio_> but they are majors
[04:43] <OculusAquilae> right
[04:44] <tonio_> I can deal with a system where I don't have sound, can't print, and make a prey for my contacts each time I have an email to send
[04:44] <tonio_> s:can:can't
[04:45] <hunger> tonio_: #31923, #31924, #32340 are minor and trivial to fix. #33034 adds two config files to improve zeroconf.
[04:45] <OculusAquilae> tonio_: so have you a suggestion? asking kde-devs?
[04:45] <hunger> tonio_: Trivial stuff... Would be nice if those get fixed before dapper...
[04:45] <tonio_> OculusAquilae: canonical of kde, I don't know
[04:45] <tonio_> but I'm not superman, I can't debug cpp
[04:45] <raphink> OculusAquilae: asking kde-devs for more bugfixing for kde 3.5.2 and canonical for hiring a guy for kubuntu
[04:46] <raphink> as they promised
[04:46] <tonio_> I can work on many things, but not this one
[04:46] <hunger> tonio_: What is wrong with cpp?
[04:46] <raphink> hunger: well then come and debug kubuntu 
[04:46] <OculusAquilae> right
[04:46] <tonio_> hunger: the fact that it is a laguage I don't know ? :)
[04:46] <raphink> hunger: if you can do it, we need you
[04:46] <hunger> tonio_: Which bug?
[04:47] <tonio_> hunger : kdeprint crashing
[04:47] <tonio_> for example
[04:47] <raphink> hunger: if you can fix major bugs in KDE, stop talking and begin contributing
[04:47] <OculusAquilae> in general I can write kde-apps too
[04:47] <hunger> raphink: And send another patch to sit in the tracker getting ignored? :-(
[04:47] <raphink> hunger: if you can debug, debug 
[04:48] <hunger> What makes you think kdeprint has a problem with cpp?
[04:48] <tonio_> hunger: if you send the bug to Riddell, it'll go in kubuntu
[04:48] <hunger> raphink: I do have to earn money, you know.
[04:48] <tonio_> hunger: and that would benefit several million users
[04:48] <raphink> hunger: because it's programmed in cpp and it has bugs ?
[04:48] <raphink> hunger: how about us ?
[04:48] <raphink> hunger: do you know that we are developers ?
[04:48] <raphink> and volunteers
[04:49] <hunger> raphink: Programmed in the C Preprocessor?
[04:49] <tonio_> raphink: I would have said "if you can and want to debug,  debug" :)
[04:49] <raphink> do you know how many hours people have given to make kubuntu work?
[04:49] <raphink> hunger: and do you know that all of us have to get some money too, from time tot ime?
[04:49] <hunger> raphink: That is great, and I owe you a lot for that!
[04:50] <raphink> hunger: so if you come here only to say you're fine with fixing your own system for yourself and don't have time to help, I'm not sure this is the right place
[04:50] <hunger> raphink: That does not give me the time to help, though:-(
[04:50] <raphink> no comment
[04:51] <tonio_> hunger: well, I can understand, but earing "I know how to but won't on kubuntu-DEVEL is a bit hurting
[04:51] <tonio_> ;)
[04:51] <tonio_> #kubuntu is then the right place
[04:51] <hunger> tonio_: You are right and I understand that.
[04:52] <tonio_> hunger: it is like coming on #ubuntu-motu and saying "I'm packaging apps for myself but don't have time to upload on revu"
[04:52] <tonio_> quite the same
[04:52] <raphink> hunger: we're trying to find solutions for kubuntu and you're talking about yourself. If you think it's good that we know you're good with cpp, then help with it
[04:53] <hunger> tonio_: But please understand me, too: I have very little time and most of my patches got ignored so far.
[04:53] <raphink> hunger: if it's just to make us feel we're bad with it and it's not good, then keep quiet please
[04:53] <tonio_> hunger: you're patches won't be ignored by us
[04:53] <tonio_> we want something stable
[04:53] <raphink> hunger: patches are not ignored most of the time
[04:53] <tonio_> we are not the kde crew (sorry fot this.....)
[04:54] <hunger> tonio_: ... and whatever I fixed I send a patch for, so it is not as if I am keeping my fixes to me.
[04:54] <tonio_> hunger: who ignored your patches ? kubuntu ?
[04:54] <hunger> What is wrong with printing by the way? Works fine here.
[04:54] <tonio_> hunger: that's nice to ear ;)
[04:54] <raphink> hunger: kdeprint uses a the sock file in /var instead of localhost to contact cups
[04:54] <tonio_> raphink: that's not the trick
[04:55] <raphink> tonio_: explain :)=
[04:55] <tonio_> works on my laptop but not on my desktop
[04:55] <raphink> ah
[04:55] <tonio_> let me switch to kde :)
[04:55] <hunger> tonio_: see #31923, #31924, #32340 and #33034 for timy stuff not looked at so far.
[04:55] <tonio_> coming back
[04:55] <hunger> raphink: Shouldn't it use the sock-file?!
[04:56] <hunger> raphink: ubuntu has this no-open-ports policy which does include the lo interface for some reason:-(
[04:56] <raphink> mhm
[04:57] <hunger> raphink: I changed cups to bind to a port, so I do not have problems with that sock-file;-)
[04:57] <raphink> this is not a cups bug though
[04:57] <raphink> cause it works in gnome
[04:58] <hunger> And what is written in C preprocessor language in kdeprint? It is all C++!
[04:59] <raphink> sure
[04:59] <raphink> it's c++
[04:59] <hunger> raphink: So why did you claim to have problems with cpp?
[04:59] <raphink> don't play with words, will you?
[05:00] <raphink> cpp is the extension for c++ files
[05:00] <hunger> raphink: Oh... sorry, I am hacking on cpp, the C Preprocessor, not in C++.
[05:00] <raphink> good for you
[05:00] <hunger> raphink: Sorry, I misunderstood you there:-|
[05:00] <tonio_> re
[05:01] <tonio_> hunger: ping ?
[05:01] <hunger> tonio_: Yes.
[05:01] <tonio_> hunger: want to come on my machine to have a look by yourself ?
[05:01] <tonio_> that's a full "by default" kubuntu dapper
[05:02] <hunger> tonio_: Can I?
[05:02] <tonio_> hunger: sure ;)
[05:02] <tonio_> krdc
[05:02] <tonio_> server : tonio.planetemu.net
[05:02] <tonio_> password : hunger
[05:03] <hunger> spooky:-)
[05:03] <hunger> Seeing both sides of a IRC conversation.
[05:03] <tonio_> I can correct this
[05:03] <raphink> hunger: never had two machines before?
[05:04] <raphink> hunger: I'll try and make patches for the bugs you fixed
[05:04] <tonio_> hunger: there are two problems
[05:04] <hunger> raphink: Thanks!
[05:04] <tonio_> 1/ server address is not correct, should be localhost
[05:04] <tonio_> I can correct this
[05:05] <tonio_> 2/ kdeprint criues when there are no printers installed in cups
[05:05] <tonio_> I can't correct this
[05:05] <tonio_> it tries http://localhost:631/printers/
[05:05] <tonio_> and of there are no result, error message
[05:05] <tonio_> here is the problem
[05:05] <tonio_> as long as you have a printer in it, it works
[05:06] <tonio_> that mean the kde devel of this didn't even test..............
[05:06] <tonio_> sounds incredible but that's it
[05:06] <tonio_> hunger: looking at my desktop ?
[05:06] <tonio_> let me show you
[05:06] <hunger> tonio_: I bet he did test... with his fully configured server.
[05:06] <hunger> tonio_: I am.
[05:08] <tonio_> ok, I've forced my printer installation
[05:08] <tonio_> no more problems, it works
[05:08] <tonio_> so we have 2 bugs
[05:08] <tonio_> I can fix the first
[05:08] <tonio_> but not the second
[05:09] <tonio_> hunger: did you saw exactly what happens ?
[05:09] <tonio_> no printer, complain, with a printer, nice
[05:09] <hunger> Let me look... I doubt that I can fix it, but I'll take a look.
[05:09] <tonio_> concerning the server address, I can fix that quite easilly
[05:10] <tonio_> all people that had a working breezy configuration can't see the problem, of course
[05:11] <tonio_> in fact kdeprint doesn't like to connect to a "with no printer" cups
[05:12] <hunger> tonio_: I'll try to look into the "no printer cups bug".
[05:12] <tonio_> hunger: thanks very much
[05:12] <tonio_> I'm looking at the second
[05:12] <hunger> tonio_: No promisses!
[05:12] <hunger> tonio_: I'll disconnect again.
[05:13] <tonio_> hunger: I know ;)
[05:13] <hunger> tonio_: My c++ is pretty rusty... I am hacking on the c preprocessor which is written in C:-)
[05:13] <hunger> tonio_: I'll disconnect again...
[05:17] <hunger> Why is kcontrol not used in kubuntu?
[05:17] <jpat|away> simplify
[05:17] <hunger> The replacement is somewhat stupid in that it can not get resized:-(
[05:17] <OculusAquilae> systemsettings is buggy
[05:18] <raphink> hunger: here's one : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdeutils/+bug/31924
[05:19] <hunger> raphink: Thanks for adding a patch. Now that only needs to go into kubuntu...
[05:19] <raphink> hunger: there agin, we only have one mail dev to commit the changes...
[05:20] <jpat|away> unfortunatly
[05:20] <Tm_T> BAH!
[05:20] <Tm_T> bah bah bah!
[05:21] <Tm_T> "display" thing in kcontrol is still borked
[05:21] <hunger> Bah!
[05:21] <hunger> "Internal error: (no error)" is a pretty stupid error message:-(
[05:22] <Tm_T> =)
[05:23] <jpat|away> Does that "ShowOnlyIn=KDE" stuff work?
[05:25] <hunger> jpat|away: It does.
[05:25] <jpat|away> ok
[05:26] <hunger> jpat|away: I wrote a patch for that and riddell applied a even better one at some point;-)
[05:41] <_Sime> Tm_T:  That "display" thing should be feeling better once Riddel packages the next bug fix release.
[05:41] <_Sime> OculusAquilae: systemsettings is also being debugged.
[05:41] <OculusAquilae> _Sime: nice
[05:41] <_Sime> hunger: what doesn't resize in systemsettings?
[05:42] <_Sime> OculusAquilae: it _really_ needed some attention.
[05:42] <OculusAquilae> right, but shipping it with breezy was to my mind a fault
[05:47] <_Sime> true. It should have been left in the oven a bit longer.
[05:47] <_Sime> (in fact the oven wasn't on. No one has been working on it)
[05:50] <jpat|away> this is the fifth time in two minutes that koffice has crashed
[05:54] <hunger> Can somebody start the printer setup thingy as administrator?
[05:54] <hunger> When switching to administrator mode I get "Could not find module 'printmgr'"
[05:58] <hunger> tonio_: I deleted all printers on my printserver.
[05:58] <hunger> tonio_: th kprinter thingy pops up a message box but works otherwise...
[06:00] <tonio_> hunger: yes
[06:01] <chris>  DCC SEND ?string? 0 0 0
[06:01] <tonio_> I'm working on that
[06:01] <tonio_> the "localhost" problem will be released with next version of kubuntu-default-settings
[06:01] <hunger> tonio_: How on earth did you get that thingy to work at all?
[06:01] <tonio_> but there is a second one when there is not printer
[06:01] <tonio_> http://localhost:631/printers
[06:01] <tonio_> I assume it tries to parse this html output
[06:01] <tonio_> so maybe the fix is easy to do
[06:01] <hunger> tonio_: I can not even have it get into admin mode!
[06:02] <tonio_> hunger: if you discard the error message and install a printer
[06:02] <tonio_> it is working logically
[06:02] <tonio_> it is just a bug when not printer is set in cups
[06:03] <hunger> In fact I can not get anything into admin mode now that I am trying that out.
[06:03] <tonio_> hu ?
[06:04] <tonio_> argh
[06:04] <tonio_> systemsettings bug back
[06:05] <tonio_> hunger: right, this is another bug
[06:06] <tonio_> but you are supposed to be able to install a printer without admin mode
[06:06] <hunger> tonio_: I am?
[06:06] <tonio_> and then get no error message when starting kdeprint
[06:06] <tonio_> I assume you should be able to as I am
[06:08] <Tm_T> _Sime: yay!
[06:10] <hunger> tonio_: FWIW: gnome-cups-manager gives a similar error message on the console...
[06:10] <tonio_> hunger, ah ?
[06:11] <hunger> tonio_: You just do not see it there;-)
[06:11] <tonio_> hunger: that's a good news
[06:11] <tonio_> hunger: 
[06:11] <tonio_> comment out the line:
[06:11] <tonio_> AuthType Basic
[06:12] <tonio_> in the <Location/admin> section at the bottom of the file (comment out
[06:12] <tonio_> with #'s). Then, restart CUPS. 
[06:12] <tonio_> can you try this with me ?
[06:20] <tonio_> hunger: finally that is a gupsd problem, not a kdeprint one
[06:20] <tonio_> good news inf act
[06:20] <tonio_> fact
[06:21] <hunger> tonio_: Dunno whether that is a cupsd problem or not.
[06:22] <hunger> tonio_: It might just be both apps being too stupid to cope with the error message properly.
[06:22] <hunger> tonio_: With gnome using its usual "Do not confuse the user" approach;-)
[06:23] <tonio_> hunger: yes, poissible
[06:23] <tonio_> the only difference is that gnome is not displaying the error message
[06:24] <tonio_> hack from canonical ?
[06:24] <tonio_> it is not the usual gnome way to hide error messages
[06:24] <hunger> tonio_: It is not? That is new for me.
[06:24] <tonio_> hum, maybe yes
[06:25] <tonio_> okay so we need to find a way that cups shits is mouth :)
[06:25] <tonio_> s/shits/shuts
[06:25] <tonio_> or patching kdeprint not to display it also
[06:26] <hunger> tonio_: I am just rebuilding a kdenetwork which ignores the errorcode 1030.
[06:27] <tonio_> hunger: let me know what about ;)
[06:27] <tonio_> that could be a good solution
[06:27] <hunger> tonio_: Not really good, but maybe acceptable.
[06:28] <tonio_> hunger: same that gnome
[06:28] <tonio_> so acceptable in the ubuntu way to work ;)
[06:30] <jpat|away> robotgeek: see my last comment at the kfocus bug
[06:30] <hunger> Way to big to be a errorcode for sockets.
[06:32] <robotgeek> jpat|away: damn :)
[06:34] <tonio_> hunger: let me aware if it works, then if yes, we will release a patch
[06:45] <Lure> hi all
[06:46] <Lure> I was just reading your buggy Dapper discussion - I have to agree
[06:46] <Lure> I would just like to point to IRC log of Dapper Dev meeting
[06:46] <Lure> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/DapperDev_2006-03-02
[06:46] <Lure> search for cups - you will see Riddell comment
[06:47] <Lure> he mentioned that this might be cups 1.1 vs 1.2 API change
[06:47] <Lure> and that Kubuntu may require older cups (as kprint developer may not fix in time)
[06:55] <tonio_> hunger any news ?
[06:55] <Lure> tonio_: I recall seeing simple config file workaround (maybe by Hobbsee)
[06:55] <Lure> but I cannot recall now where (forums, irc, LP...)
[06:55] <Lure> something like putting empty printer list somewhere
[06:56] <Lure> similar to HTML: <Printer></Printer> 
[06:56] <tonio_> Lure: in fact the error message is there with gnome too
[06:56] <tonio_> but gnome-cups-manager doesn't output it
[06:57] <tonio_> ** (gnome-cups-manager:12984): WARNING **: IPP request failed with status 1030
[06:57] <tonio_> in the shell
[06:57] <tonio_> a good solution could be to avoid the error message like gnome does
[06:58] <tonio_> and by the way, removing this when resolved
[06:58] <tonio_> Lure: any opinion on this ?
[06:58] <Lure> that would be nice workaround (until we get THE fix)
[06:58] <tonio_> Lure: I agree
[06:59] <tonio_> Lure: there where two problems in fact.
[06:59] <tonio_> I have the solution to the first, within kubuntu-default-settings
[06:59] <hunger> tonio_: kdebase FTBFS.
[06:59] <Lure> localhost?
[06:59] <tonio_> Lure: yes
[06:59] <tonio_> I'm adding localhost to kdeprintrc directly
[06:59] <tonio_> works nice
[06:59] <Lure> 2nd one might be /etc/cups/printers.conf hack
[07:00] <hunger> tonio_: kdeprint did get build before the failure, but it does not fail on the 1030 error that hits gnome.
[07:00] <tonio_> Lure: the problem is that I can't hack this easilly
[07:00] <tonio_> at least wothout touching ubuntu :)
[07:00] <Lure> I do not have clean system anymore - but I suppose something could be put there
[07:00] <Lure> or a dummy printer (Print to file?)
[07:00] <tonio_> hunger: okay
[07:02] <tonio_> hum Lure wouldn't it be better to simply fix kdelibs to simply ignore that error ?
[07:03] <Lure> I do not know KDE code - so I am not sure how easy this would be
[07:03] <tonio_> Lure: yes, understand that ;) same for me I must say
[07:03] <tonio_> but I'm gonna investigate
[07:27] <Lure> raphink: were you the initial packager of kpowersave for ubuntu?
[07:27] <Lure> (I have seen your update of it today)
[07:34] <tonio_> trying a patch on kdelibs.........
[07:34] <tonio_> not correcting anything, but supposed to avoid the error message, as gnome does
[07:35] <tonio_> it is better than nothing.........
[07:35] <hunger> tonio_: ?
[07:36] <tonio_> hunger: the error message is send by kdelibs
[07:36] <hunger> tonio_: Yes. I am building a debug-version with some more output right at this moment.
[07:36] <tonio_> hunger: of kdelibs ? thanks for this ;)
[07:37] <tonio_> nice idea :)
[07:37] <hunger> tonio_: My guess is that the request is empty which is considered to be a error.
[07:37] <tonio_> yes, I too
[07:37] <tonio_> but not sure, because we can see it tries to connect for a long time
[07:37] <tonio_> let me show you something
[07:37] <tonio_> the error message is outputed by this :
[07:38] <raphink> Lure: to I was no the initial packager
[07:39] <hunger> Compiling C++ is a pita!
[07:39] <raphink> tonio_: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/k3b/+bug/23007/ encore un vieux bug pourri qui traine depuis 6 mois
[07:39] <raphink> Lure: no I was not the initial packager
[07:39] <raphink> Lure: and yes I have updated it with a fix
[07:40] <Lure> raphink: OK, we were discussing yesterday to request UVF
[07:40] <Lure> and were wondering which MOTU did upload it for the first time
[07:40] <raphink> Lure: ah, well sure
[07:40] <raphink> Lure: it doesn't matter who uploaded the first time
[07:41] <tonio_> hunger: KMMainView::slotUpdatePossible( bool flag )
[07:41] <tonio_> here is the function that outputs this
[07:42] <hunger> tonio_: As I see it the problem is raised by IppRequest::doFileRequest returning false.
[07:43] <hunger> tonio_: Which it does on this condition: (!request_ || request_->state == IPP_ERROR || (request_->request.stat
[07:43] <hunger> us.status_code & 0x0F00))
[07:43] <hunger> My guess is that request_ is NULL at this point...
[07:44] <tonio_> yes
[07:44] <tonio_> cups outputs nothing, exactly ;)
[07:45] <tonio_> hunger: that's a bit too complicated for me, because of cpp :)
[07:45] <tonio_> hunger: do you feel able to patch it in a certain way ?
[07:45] <hunger> tonio_: C++;-)
[07:45] <hunger> tonio_: Don't know yet. We'll see.
[07:45] <tonio_> oki
[07:46] <tonio_> raphink: ho damn
[07:46] <raphink> http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117455
[07:46] <hunger> tonio_: My C++ is mostly unused for the last couple of years, so I can't promise anything.
[07:46] <tonio_> hunger: you are trying, that's nice ;)
[07:47] <raphink> l'est bien con lui ... il confond kcontrol et systemsettings
[07:47] <hunger> raphink: See? I am trying;-)
[07:47] <raphink> sure :)
[07:47] <hunger> raphink: and that even though I mistook your cpp for the c preprocessor which I know way more about than c++:-)
[07:48] <raphink> ;)
[07:48] <tonio_> raphink prefer to insults in french ;)
[07:48] <raphink> lol
[07:48] <tonio_> hehe
[07:48] <hunger> tonio_: That is fine with me... my french is so bad that I won't get that:-)
[07:48] <tonio_> well, that's an ungly bug
[07:49] <tonio_> hunger, nice to ear that !!!
[07:49] <hunger> my last grade in french was "did not participate";-)
[07:49] <tonio_> hunger c'est un gros payday !
[07:49] <tonio_> lol
[07:49] <raphink> roooh
[07:49] <tonio_> hunger: french is an horribly complicated language anyway
[07:49] <tonio_> raphink: kidding of course ;)
[07:49] <hunger> tonio_: I can always show my wife. She is my universal translator:-)
[07:50] <raphink> tonio_: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117455  bam 
[07:50] <tonio_> hunger, please don't ;)
[07:50] <tonio_> hihi
[07:50] <hunger> tonio_: NOW I am curious!
[07:50] <tonio_> hunger: lol
[07:51] <tonio_> she might not understand anyway ;)
[07:51] <tonio_> raphink: how could such a bug still exist in 3.5.1 ?
[07:51] <tonio_> that is the evidence of one thing
[07:51] <raphink> tonio_: it seems to be linked to the debian package 
[07:51] <tonio_> the kde debugging activity is a shame
[07:51] <raphink> tonio_: I'm looking at it now
[07:51] <tonio_> raphink: ah ? 
[07:51] <tonio_> okay sorry then ;)
[07:51] <hunger> tonio_: She is damn good with languages... speaks 7 different languages and understands a couple more.
[07:51] <raphink> tonio_: this bug appears only on debian sid and ubuntu
[07:52] <tonio_> we need to look at the package then
[07:52] <tonio_> crappy patch or something
[07:52] <raphink> hmm seems all the patches are from kubuntu though
[07:53] <tonio_> raphink: argh..........
[07:53] <raphink> and debian has a newer version
[07:53] <tonio_> the problem could be the build system then.........
[07:53] <tonio_> raphink: uvf exception ?
[07:53] <tonio_> ;)
[07:53] <raphink> IF the new debian version works, sure
[07:54] <tonio_> we should try tu sync the new debian package
[07:54] <raphink> that I'm going to test now ;)
[07:54] <tonio_> raphink: cool ;)
[07:54] <raphink> if it's not fixed in debian yet, there's no reason to sync
[07:54] <tonio_> I'm closing the bug for cups and localhost
[07:54] <tonio_> resolved
[07:54] <raphink> ah?
[07:55] <tonio_> raphink: kdeprint doesn't cry with "unable to connect to host"
[07:55] <tonio_> this is the purpose of that bug, although you pointed another problem
[07:56] <tonio_> the original message is that, and that is resolved
[07:56] <tonio_> so I think it should be closed
[07:56] <tonio_> and maybe you should create a new one
[07:57] <tonio_> raphink: your feeling on this ?
[07:57] <raphink> wait I'm on the k3b bug
[07:57] <tonio_> k
[07:58] <robotgeek> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2006-March/005396.html 
[07:58] <raphink> ok the bug is not set 
[07:58] <raphink> fixed
[07:58] <robotgeek> all are welcome to comment :)
[07:59] <tonio_> raphink: do you ask for uvh then ?
[07:59] <tonio_> uvfe
[07:59] <raphink> tonio_: no since it's not fixed in debian
[07:59] <raphink> I don't see why I would ask for a uvf ;)
[07:59] <tonio_> oh not fixed
[07:59] <tonio_> strange issue
[07:59] <tonio_> pbuilder issue ?
[08:02] <jpat|away> robotgeek: cool
[08:02] <raphink> il est SUPER crade le paquet k3b tonio_
[08:03] <robotgeek> jpat|away: still a few incomplete sections, i should hopefully finish them this week
[08:03] <tonio_> raphink
[08:03] <tonio_> le refaire ?
[08:03] <raphink> tonio_: bof
[08:03] <jpat|away> robotgeek: I would help but I've got a stack of work and some things to sort out
[08:04] <raphink> tonio_: je vais tenter de refaire un paquet propre vite fait voir si a rsoud le problme
[08:04] <tonio_> raphink: k
[08:05] <robotgeek> jpat|away: sure, no problem. i would appreciate comments on something i have wrong there
[08:05] <tonio_> raphink: ptant ca doit pas tre mega complik a packager k3b.........
[08:05] <robotgeek> jpat|away: if you've got the time :)
[08:05] <tonio_> quelques dependances et basta
[08:07] <jpat|away> robotgeek: :)
[08:07] <tonio_> raphink: je retrouve pas le bug kdeprint sur launchpad
[08:08] <tonio_> serieux je dois mal m'y prendre, mais malone, j'ai du mal
[08:08] <raphink> tonio_: va sur ma page, section bugs, subscribed
[08:08] <tonio_> k
[08:08] <tonio_> mais par la recherche c le bordel
[08:12] <hunger> tonio_: You are visiting a brothel?!
[08:12] <hunger> tonio_: Or did I misunderstand that french?
[08:13] <hunger> How do I enable the debug output of stuff in kde?
[08:14] <jpat|away> gdb?
[08:15] <hunger> jpat|away: There is some gui app to set the outputlevel of kde apps.
[08:15] <jpat|away> hmm
[08:17] <tonio_> hunger: you missunderstood I think :)
[08:18] <jpat|away> je ne sais pas
[08:23] <raphink> wow about 3cm of snow on my balcony!
[08:26] <jpat|away> wicked!
[08:28] <hunger> Can I run the control-center modules directly?
[08:30] <hunger> I do not get any output even though I turned it on with kdebugdialog.
[08:32] <tonio_> hunger: no idea........;
[08:35] <hunger> tonio_: proper kdebugdialog settings would be cool for kdefaultsettings;-)
[08:37] <tonio_> hunger: what's the problem with it ?
[08:42] <tonio_> hunger ping ?
[08:43] <hunger> tonio_: Was in #kde-devel to find out how to get debug output.
[08:43] <tonio_> hunger: oki ;) what do you mean about k-d-s and kdebugdialog ?
[08:44] <tonio_> is it possible to control or remove error messages via a simple setting ?
[08:44] <hunger> tonio_: Maybe make everything log important stuff into a logfile or so.
[08:45] <tonio_> hunger: will think about that for dapper+1 :)
[08:45] <tonio_> but it is a big work, and we certainly have too much to do for dapper actually
[09:29] <jpat|away> hello allee, JRe 
[09:30] <allee> hi jpat|away 
[09:30] <tonio_> allee: hi ;)
[09:31] <jpat|away> oh fun
[09:31] <tonio_> allee: I tried to revu your kdissert package
[09:31] <tonio_> but there is a problem with it, all folders are dead.........
[09:31] <allee> tonio_: Oh, strange!
[09:31] <tonio_> allee: yes
[09:32] <allee> tonio_: I never used kdissert before so I just started / closed it.
[09:32] <tonio_> although, because it is in our case not debian synced, I think it should be numbered 2ubuntu2
[09:32] <tonio_> allee: it is not concerned by freezes, so I can upload it directly
[09:33] <tonio_> I'm just not fine with the versioning in fact
[09:33] <tonio_> allee: what's your opinion ?
[09:33] <allee> tonio_: I'll check what I used
[09:33] <tonio_> allee: okay
[09:35] <allee> tonio_: ah, I just s/1$/2$/.   Well, I don't care.  Whatever is more correct, choose it
[09:35] <tonio_> allee: I've resolved 50% of the kdeprint problems
[09:35] <tonio_> the other is a code bug, not a config one, and requires patch to the sources....
[09:35] <tonio_> hunger is looking at it
[09:36] <tonio_> allee: just that because it is an ubuntu version now, the versioning should probably be set to 2ubuntu1
[09:36] <tonio_> sounds logic
[09:36] <tonio_> first port of the second debian version
[09:36] <tonio_> with a changelog and a patch :)
[09:36] <jpat|away> yep
[09:36] <allee> tonio_: fine with me.  I submitted the changes also to debian and the maintainer uploaded them already
[09:36] <tonio_> allee: nice, it'll get synced with dapper+1
[09:37] <tonio_> allee, tell me when on revu, I will revu and upload
[09:37] <tonio_> jpat|away: no news for *netswitch ?
[09:37] <jpat|away> tonio_: probably still stuck in NEW like everything else
[09:38] <allee> tonio_: so just a version change?   What about the dead folders?
[09:38] <tonio_> elmo will die when opening the NEW queue
[09:38] <tonio_> well upload like this and we will see what happens on revu ;)
[09:38] <tonio_> the link are dead on the revyu page
[09:38] <tonio_> I couldn't download the package
[09:38] <allee> when the sees codeine, he will be excited :) :)
[09:38] <allee> 'k
[09:39] <tonio_> I assume the strange versioning can cause a revu bug
[09:39] <tonio_> allee: when is the meeting ?
[09:39] <tonio_> I cannot miss it to support you !
[09:40] <allee> tonio_: next tuesday 12.00 UTC
[09:40] <allee> tonio_: and thx
[09:40] <tonio_> allee: that's the minimum I can do
[09:41] <tonio_> that'll be good this time, and then MOTU next week !
[09:41] <jpat|away> tonio_: I was member one day, MOTU the next :P
[09:41] <tonio_> I know
[09:43] <tonio_> jpat|away: any news for moodin ?
[09:43] <tonio_> jpat|away: sorry for sayuing this, but I really think about making a port of that theme to the standard engine.......
[09:44] <jpat|away> oh bugger
[09:44] <jpat|away> I forgot
[09:44] <allee> tonio_: I doubt that my traces in (k)ubuntu will be enough for MOTU
[09:44] <tonio_> well we have major issues actually with moodin
[09:44] <tonio_> allee: could be I think.......;
[09:44] <tonio_> jpat|away: it doesn't support utf8
[09:44] <jpat|away> woah
[09:44] <tonio_> jpat|away: doesn't support i18n
[09:45] <tonio_> jpat|away: depends on a fix background wich causes issues with non 1280x1024 resolutions
[09:45] <tonio_> that hudge issues
[09:45] <allee> kdissert upload finished, with just 2build2 -> 2ubuntu2 changed
[09:45] <jpat|away> I know
[09:45] <allee> I'll build and try to use kdissert ...
[09:45] <tonio_> allee: nice ;)
[09:46] <tonio_> allee: revuing when online
[09:47] <tonio_> allee: we have to work on that bullshit systemapplet this WE don't you think ?
[09:47] <tonio_> it make it completly unusable to my view
[09:48] <tonio_> it shouldn't be so hard
[09:48] <tonio_> we just have to avoid the url switching in the system:/ kio
[09:49] <tonio_> the main problem will be to find THE file to patch ;)
[09:50] <allee> tonio: which system applet?
[09:50] <tonio_> kde system applet
[09:50] <tonio_> using the kio system:/
[09:50] <tonio_> in fact we have to patch the kio itself
[09:51] <allee> uh
[09:51] <tonio_> allee: you know, that "copy to tmp" issue using system:/ in konq
[09:51] <hunger> tonio_: It would have been great if the kdelibs debug debs actually had debugging enabled:-(
[09:51] <tonio_> hunger: argh....... indeed
[09:51] <jpat|away> I think there aer
[09:52] <hunger> tonio_: Ours don't: They got the symbols (I think) but all the kde debug stuff is disabled:-(
[09:52] <tonio_> hunger: well, you should probably talk with Riddell about that....... not of my knowledge
[09:53] <allee> hunger: -deb pkgs are just there to get a useful stacktrace
[09:53] <allee> -dbg that is
[09:55] <jpat|away> I'm going
[09:56] <hunger> allee: Oh great. So we can basically leave them IMHO. You will need to rebuild them anyway when debugging:-(
[09:57] <allee> hunger: the -dbg stuff is handy when users report crashes and one wants a useful stacktrace.  so keeping them can be useful
[09:58] <hunger> allee: There are no -dbg of the apps themselves, so I doubt that.
[09:59] <tonio_> allee: have you seen kate is now back to monosession mode ?
[09:59] <tonio_> ;)
[09:59] <tonio_> took me long but that's done
[09:59] <hunger> tonio_: Hey, stop turning KDE into gnome!
[09:59] <allee> No, I have not updated since thurday (only 64 k until monday)
[10:00] <hunger> tonio_: Which reminds me: Do you know "SimpleKDE"? Apparently they are trying to do a simpler KDE...
[10:00] <allee> Argl, kids refuse to got to bed.  bbl
[10:01] <tonio_> hunger: heard about it, but I though it was a kind of joke
[10:01] <hunger> tonio_: They are based on stable KDE, so maybe they are fixing bugs.
[10:01] <tonio_> I mean the guys have been described as "people that are going to something they don't know"
[10:01] <tonio_> but that was a while ago
[10:02] <hunger> tonio_: Only saw a interview on osnews about them. I have no idea about the project at all.
[10:02] <hunger> Just wanted to mention it.
[10:04] <tonio_> hunger: looking at the screenshots, looks nice
[10:05] <tonio_> although there are even less options than in gnome hehe
[10:05] <tonio_> but could be nice for a child for example
[10:05] <hunger> no
[10:05] <hunger> tonio_: Please do not use it then;-)
[10:05] <tonio_> hunger: WHY SHOULD i ? ;)
[10:05] <tonio_> oups
[10:09] <hunger> tonio_: You seem to be in a feature removal frenzy! ;-)
[10:10] <tonio_> hunger ? never
[10:10] <tonio_> where did I say removing features was good ?
[10:11] <hunger> tonio_: single-session for kate, etc.
[10:11] <tonio_> I just think that could be a good base for child oriented distro
[10:11] <tonio_> hunger: single session for kate is "backing to something usable"
[10:11] <tonio_> this session management is a shame
[10:12] <tonio_> do you prefer to have 4 files in 4 kates
[10:12] <tonio_> or 4 files in the same ?
[10:12] <hunger> tonio_: I'd much prefer if you could change the coler of those buttons all around kate.
[10:12] <tonio_> removing a bad feature is not linking features removing :)
[10:12] <hunger> tonio_: I only ever have 1 kate.
[10:12] <tonio_> hunger: well, test a dapper flight 4 by default and you'll see..........;
[10:13] <tonio_> monosession mode doesn't exist anymore
[10:13] <tonio_> double click a file, kate opens
[10:13] <hunger> tonio_: Does flight 4 have different colors?
[10:13] <tonio_> doubleclick another, another kate opens
[10:13] <tonio_> hunger: I don't think so
[10:13] <tonio_> claydoh: it will be single session
[10:13] <hunger> tonio_: Damn. What were they thinking when doing that color theme?
[10:14] <tonio_> claydoh: if you have an update dapper, remove katerc in your profile
[10:14] <tonio_> should work
[10:14] <claydoh> already fixed :)
[10:14] <hunger> tonio_: Tabs get lighter when active, those buttons get darker.
[10:14] <tonio_> claydoh: did you ?
[10:14] <tonio_> cause if you have a better hack than mine, I would appreciate
[10:15] <hunger> tonio_: And then there are usually 2 buttons on the side only, so it is really hard to notice that things are inverse then with tabs.
[10:15] <claydoh> i edited the .desktop file somewhere.....
[10:16] <tonio_> claydoh: added --use into it ?
[10:16] <tonio_> that's the way I did it for dapper
[10:16] <tonio_> + katerc configured in k-d-s
[10:16] <claydoh> yes
[10:16] <tonio_> okay
[10:17] <claydoh> I actually had to ask in the forums how to change it :)
[10:19] <tonio_> claydoh: I simply read the man :)
[10:19] <tonio_> but it took long to find the good option
[10:19] <hunger> tonio_: That's cheating!
[10:20] <hunger> tonio_: You should read the source, man! ;-)
[10:20] <tonio_> hunger: have you seen the kate sources ?
[10:20] <tonio_> it is hudge
[10:20] <hunger> tonio_: Nope.
[10:21] <hunger> tonio_: I tend not to read kde sources except when people like raphink force me.
[10:21] <tonio_> hunger: anyway it is fixed lol
[10:21] <tonio_> hunger: but we love you for doing it ;)
[10:23] <allee> tonio_: when I print, after the print dialog is closed I have a jumping printer icons next to the cursor.
[10:24] <tonio_> allee: hu ?
[10:24] <allee> acutally it is like this for several weeks
[10:24] <tonio_> strange
[10:24] <tonio_> but kde crew will call that a feature maybe ;)
[10:25] <allee> :)  Looks like it waits for an app to start that never comes up and timeouts after some time
[10:25] <claydoh> well, for me the man page and help were not too clear for me, never occured to look at the desktop file :)
[10:26] <tonio_> allee: I think I have the solution for the kio system ;)
[10:26] <tonio_> cooooooool :)
[10:26] <allee> great!
[10:26] <tonio_> ./kio_system.cpp, rewriteURL function
[10:26] <tonio_> I just need to make it not changing the URL :)
[10:27] <hunger> tonio_: ?
[10:27] <tonio_> hunger ?
[10:28] <hunger> tonio_: What problem is there with the kio system?
[10:29] <tonio_> hunger, try to open a big file, like an avi of a big log file with kate.........
[10:29] <tonio_> pain in the ass "feature", once more with kde 3.5
[10:29] <tonio_> was working nicely before, and they added that horrible change in the kio
[11:42] <hunger> tonio_: cups returns "client-error-not-found"