=== lapo [n=bat@host10-163.pool8259.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [01:25] hi [01:25] er, hi [01:26] hello again lapo [01:28] ciao andreasn === mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [06:54] moin === justin__k [n=justink@jaim.at] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === AndyFitz [n=andy@cust1772.qld01.dataco.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [08:10] hi all, as anyone put their hand up for art team leader yet? [08:10] i nominate pascal === justin__k [n=justink@jaim.at] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] === kamstrup [n=kamstrup@0x3e42da90.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === AndyFitz [n=andy@cust1772.qld01.dataco.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === andreasn [n=andreas@h108n3fls33o1104.telia.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [09:42] Does anybody here know if there are performance differences between metacity themes? [09:42] I wan't a really light one. [09:42] for the SandSkater theme [09:52] kamstrup: there is some performance issues with some themes, which ones are you thinking? [09:52] klepas: hey :) [09:53] artnay: I have a few in mind. CHeck https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SandSkater [09:54] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/SandSkater [09:54] that was [09:56] I'm quite sure it will be quite lightweight no matter which one you choose of those [09:58] kamstrup: if bg is too much for computer, maybe one should use something like IceWM or *box :p [09:59] No way artnay :) [09:59] I'm running Gnome on my 700MHz box [10:00] A solid background gives a pretty noticable speed gain [10:00] as does the thinice gtk engine [10:00] :) [10:00] Things are pretty snappy infact [10:00] I'm on P3 500 MHz & 128 MB now [10:00] hehe [10:01] You know the feeling then [10:01] damn it's taking long from asus to replace mobo [10:06] have you guys found any performance tests between SVG and PNG rendering on low-end computers? [10:07] I've seen some tests but they were run on fast computer (> 2 GHz) [10:07] hmmm [10:07] no [10:07] do you have any ideas on how to do that? [10:07] generally PNG should be more ideal to your project [10:08] I would guess so [10:08] but I'm not sure [10:10] Still Life is png, and has some of the qualities I'm looking for. [10:10] too bad it's not offered as SVGs, too [10:10] it will require a good deal of work to get into shape [10:10] yes [10:10] that would ease modifications [10:13] maybe you could ask the author for SVG/XCF/PSD [10:14] shouldn't we create a subcategory for proposed themes? [10:14] to wiki [10:14] I mean, wiki is quite a chaos at the moment IMHO [10:15] and henrik mentioned removing ToDo list... I think that would be a bad idea since there's no any other page that covers all the information [10:15] that's why there should be separate pages for different *buntus [10:16] no offence but I think we should renew many parts of /Artwork [10:18] is there really any reason to have a separate official section? why isn't the new icon set covered there? is it official? that kind of questions might raise to people new to ubuntu-artwork [10:18] btw, who is working on that icon set? tigert? [10:19] AndyFitz: do you happen to have any idea of that? :o [10:20] I find it rather funny that they ask people to send comments to artwork team when artwork team is as much informed as anybody else [10:20] lapo: I see you've been highlighting me ~a week ago :o === omeg [n=omega@s55933ad4.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === lukacu [n=lukacu@cpe-213-157-253-211.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [10:54] I'm quite surprised while reading ubuntu-artwork ML (march list) [10:54] have you checked the archive? [11:08] artnay: drew what theme? [11:09] andreasn: umh, pardon? [11:09] "btw, who is working on that icon set? tigert?" [11:09] yeah, the official icon set which came out of blue [11:10] andreasn: someone hired [11:10] by canonical [11:10] from scandinavia as has been said earlier (a month ago) [11:10] I have no idea who it is, but it's not tigert. He's working for Nokia now [11:10] my guess it's tigert since he's past is somewhat gnome and art centric and he's from finland (scandinavia) [11:11] but one could always have some hobbyist projects on freetime, if it's a passion ;9 [11:11] I think tigert would have refused doing anything else but a tango-set [11:11] it's surprising what money can do [11:12] but if it is him, he hasn't mentioned it at all [11:12] there's such thing as NDA [11:12] but that goes against CoC [11:12] lots of nice acronyms, umh [11:13] have you guys had a look at the proposed theme packages that the art team could begin and maintain? [11:13] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/AdditionalThemes [11:14] Tango also has a Thunderbird theme, but I wasn't sure if I should add that or not [11:14] klepas: sure have [11:14] to the wiki-page [11:14] andreasn: add it to the list [11:15] but the thing is, that we're already three months late [11:15] i want to put myself forth as a maintainer/leader/person who works on a complete Tango package for Ubuntu [11:15] klepas: sound great! [11:15] so everything from GDM to splash to GTK to Metacity to Firefox and Thunderbird themes... etc. [11:15] and wallpapers [11:15] and finally, of course the icon set [11:16] a lot of apps are starting to use tango upstream now [11:16] latest f-spot, banshee etc. [11:16] we also want to decide on a new art team leadeer [11:17] klepas: there's no reason to decide it now [11:17] not right now [11:17] but within the next week [11:17] once someone who has all the time and skill to be responsible comes out, then it's time [11:17] at the moment there really doesn't seem to such person [11:18] at least not on IRC [11:18] artnay: yourself? [11:18] klepas: sorry, I doubt that big time [11:18] andyfitz [11:18] maybe not in time wise [11:18] neither of us have the time needed [11:18] but hey, things change :) [11:19] hopefully they do [11:19] http://wombat.nuxified.com/files/thb-ubuntu-splashes.png [11:19] I find it rather strange that mark used quite strong words on the ML [11:19] yea [11:19] well considering i met him [11:19] and he gave me a lift back to my home town [11:19] to me it seems canonical really didn't care for artwork until they woke up some time ago [11:19] we had a chance to talk [11:20] and now i sort of got annoyed at what we agreed upon :) [11:20] my fault :) [11:20] since volvoguy and I have sent many emails considering ubuntu-artwork, and we haven't received replies... [11:20] brb [11:20] volvoguy sent a few mails in july, I did send back is august or september [11:21] and mark also states that there has to be somebody who tells what to do with ubuntu-artwork (project leader), although it's been said that artwork team doesn't have a word on artwork that will be on the ubuntu CD media [11:23] so I'd say that canonical should have publicized the much spoken branding guide (stating what they want from ubuntu-artwork) which would have helped artwork team to set the priorites [11:23] and that way co-operation would have been possible [11:25] since I really see no person outside of canonical who would have the influence to say what artwork team should focus and work on [11:26] what do you guys think? [11:34] perhaps the reason that the artwork-team has no influence is because canonial don't trust that the team can produce good stuff [11:34] hm, need to run sonn [11:35] as a contributor to the tango project and a ubuntu user, I think it would be cool if the artwork team could work together with the community we build around tango [11:36] to make it not only a novell dominated project [11:39] but that is just me thinking aloud :) [11:44] time to run [11:45] I'll be back in a couple of hours [11:51] artnay: hey [11:52] klepas: pong [11:53] reploed === miketech [n=miketech@dslb-084-057-226-039.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [12:49] hi === sittisal [n=sittisal@host244-102.pool877.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === sittisal [n=sittisal@host244-102.pool877.interbusiness.it] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] [01:36] anyone awake? [01:42] klepas: aye [01:45] hey, cool [01:45] what are your thoughts on the themed package ideas [01:45] for universe [01:45] and one which is of top notch for mainstream, if it's good enough? [01:46] hmmm [01:46] it's hard when we don't have anython really concrete atm [01:47] I think there's been a bit too much of [01:47] "hey this icon theme is cool, hey this gtk theme is cool - let's stick them together and call it a theme" [01:48] yep [01:49] i think we can be safe though [01:49] to say that Tango could do with a complete Ubuntu (GNOME) and Kubuntu (KDE) pacakge [01:49] Tango should definitely be used... [01:50] i'm putting myself up as a person who would be willing to work on that [01:50] given that some work needs to be done [01:50] i'm going to spend all of this weekend compiling some sort of coherent Ubuntu Tango package [01:51] There would need to be a GNOME and KDE package (Ubuntu and Kubuntu) with GDM/KDM, splash screen, wallpaper(s), GTK/KDE themes, Metacity/KDE window decoration themes and finally the icon sets. One official, complete Tango package. [01:51] eventually both [01:51] but i'll do the ubuntu (GNOME one) this weekend [01:52] what do you think kamstrup [01:53] interested in helping out in the tango one [02:03] klepas: in which areas would like to have a helping hand? [02:04] well basically [02:04] i want to get a Tango set together [02:04] by Sunday eve [02:04] starting with the GNOME stuff [02:04] GTK, Metacity, icon set, splash screen and maybe about 2-5 wallpapers [02:04] all Tango [02:04] I might be able to help you tomorrow, I'm leaving soon to this place: http://www.pacifique.fi/home.shtml x) [02:06] yea [02:06] i had a look at that [02:06] damn [02:06] pretty sassy === lapo [n=bat@host10-163.pool8259.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [02:43] hi === jozmak [n=mak@h66-201-246-249.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [03:10] klepas: sorry for keeping you... [03:10] I'll spend most of my time on the SandSkater theme [03:11] but i like the idea [03:11] ofcourse :) [03:11] it is Tango after all :) [03:12] klepas: will you go ubuntu brown? [03:12] for the tango things? [03:12] no [03:12] because it's tango [03:13] the themes _do not_ have even follow the Ubuntu colour schema [03:13] they are different themes in their own right [03:14] I think ubuntu should follow tango color shcema, and tango is not a theme [03:15] tango is actually a bunch of guidelines to make application of various different enviroment looks nice side by side, the icons are a consequences of it [03:15] tango is more a style than a theme [03:15] yes [03:15] but in this case we need to play along with the rules [03:15] there is brown colors in the tango palette [03:15] is=are [03:15] so Ubuntu will feature it's own colour schema, icon set, and so forth [03:15] and we get to create themed-packages [03:15] kamstrup: yes, very similar to ubuntu ones [03:16] exactly [03:16] one or two of which, if good could end up in mainstream as additional choices [03:17] klepas: i don't know if this is the right course of action [03:18] doing a complete theme is almost impossible [03:18] you kno how many icons should be in a theme to make it really complete, and so offer a good desktop experience? [03:18] ugh...I'll rephrase it [03:18] do you know how many icons should be in a theme to make it really complete, and so offer a good desktop experience? [03:19] a lot [03:19] and tango has the best chance of ever completing that [03:19] i don't think that Ubuntu should have it's own icon set [03:19] making a completely new icon set [03:20] that is complete [03:20] will take year [03:20] if you have a really cool theme not following tango guidelines, you'll have a bunch of cool icons not integrated with the rest of the desktop [03:20] *years [03:20] yes! [03:20] of course [03:20] exactly [03:20] but no one will listen [03:20] why? [03:20] because they've already hired people [03:20] and we don't get to say "let's use tango" as the art team [03:20] we can't [03:21] so [03:21] we get to make themed-packages [03:21] where's the problem, can't the hider people follow the tango guidelines? [03:21] hired even [03:21] one or two of which might be included with the CD as additional choices [03:21] consider that the next gnome icon theme will be tango styled [03:21] because people higher up have decided to make something completely new [03:21] lapo: i know [03:22] you can make something completely new following the tango guidelines, iy's not really a problem [03:22] this is what both Andy and I have been trying to get other people to understand [03:22] it'll take far too long to make something new [03:22] have you ever used redhat/fedora? [03:22] and it won't ever be complete in the time we have [03:22] seen it extensively [03:22] used it several times [03:23] i know, blue curve [03:23] however this doesn't help us [03:23] we don't have any other options [03:23] what these folks higher up would like [03:23] blue curve is one of the most complete and cool icons theme around [03:23] are themed-packages [03:24] one of them ought to be tango [03:24] but it doesn't blend well with the rest 'cause you have gnome/kde icons with it [03:24] a complete tango package for both the GNOME (Ubuntu) and KDE (Kubuntu) dekstop [03:24] eventually it will [03:25] these themed-packages would include everything from icon sets to splash screens to wallpapers to GTK themed to metacity themes and so forth [03:25] that is what we're doing [03:25] and i would like to get at least a Tango package up and running [03:26] so, how does that sound? [03:26] that's cool, but I repeat I fear the new dapper icon theme will be a new bluecurve :-/ [03:26] a theme impossible to complete that will be dropped in the futere [03:27] future even [03:27] i fear the same [03:27] the best way to show people that there is a way to make a consistent desktop [03:27] is use tango [03:27] or a variant [03:27] there's alredy a community around tango, there's alredy good guideline, ad there's alredy lots of icons [03:28] and the easiest way to do that is to make a package that will be added at least to universe [03:28] consider lot of application are using tango icons [03:28] I mean upstream [03:28] lapo: these themed-paclages [03:28] can be added almost instantly to the universe repo [03:28] if they are complete and good [03:28] this could be in universe by next week [03:28] we just need to get some more work together [03:29] my point is that's impossible to build a complete theme [03:29] discussion, finally. hi guys. [03:29] way too many icon to do [03:29] so [03:30] does anyone have any tango-themed SVG wallpapers? [03:30] or splash screens for that matter [03:30] klepas: umh, so you basically want to make a debian package out of it. do you know how many of people involved in tango project are using ubuntu as well? [03:30] no idea [03:30] but at least 5 [03:30] :) [03:31] artnay: that's the deal [03:31] with all these themed-packages [03:31] that's what mark would love [03:31] you might want to ask these people (including people who are offering themes for other programs such as fx and tb) to get involved in this [03:31] svg is not that good for wallpapers klepas [03:31] check the irc channel [03:31] i've asked a few times [03:31] klepas: sure, but I have not seen any comments yet [03:31] yep [03:31] hence why i'm here [03:31] really? I must have missed that then [03:31] artnay: ! [03:32] hey Tm_T [03:32] you idler [03:33] tell me about it... I really haven't had a computer for the last two months [03:33] only occasionally [03:33] shame on you! === Tm_T keeps kicking artnays arse [03:34] klepas: so would you use tango with defaults? (no any alternations using ubuntu palette etc.) [03:35] klepas: regarding tango people using ubuntu, andreasn and jimmac (don't tell novell :-)) use ubuntu, surelly others [03:35] I think it's ok that canonical hired an artist, but the whole thing with ubuntu-artwork is really confusing, I'd say [03:35] it has been since the beginning [03:35] aye [03:35] artwork team was formed, umh, a month or two before breezy? [03:36] who's doing and what? what should be one and when? where's my pants btw [03:36] I ate your pants [03:36] ah then [03:36] that's the only thing I know ;) [03:36] artnay: yea, i'd use tango like it is [03:37] I think it's against CoC what's happening with the icon set, although I can take that (you know, let him/her have artistical freedom for now etc.) [03:37] once inkscape css support stuff comes in changing icon set colouration ought to be a breezye [03:37] *breeze [03:37] but the thing is that didn't co-operate hard enough before that, so it's better than nothing [03:37] so applying the Ubuntu colour scheme would be easy [03:38] klepas: uhm [03:38] the ubuntu color scheme should die imho [03:40] "01:38 < lapo> the ubuntu color scheme should die imho" - this channel is logged :P [03:40] oh, the renewed human theme... edges get pixelated [03:41] changing a the colors in an icon can't be done automagically, css or not [03:41] although fc5 has too :/ [03:42] lapo: that's basically what andy is doing at the moment, offering icons and he lefts colours to be decided by someone else [03:42] since the same thing is happening with tango [03:42] so... [03:42] is someone willing to pitch in with this Tango package? [03:42] some people really dislike the colour of folder and wastebasket in tango [03:43] artnay: basically only a bunch of icons may need a color change, so I think it's easier to do it manually, and doing an icon theme that inherits tango then [03:43] lapo: yeah, in some occasions [03:43] if you need to change the colour of folder icon, it could be done easily with css support [03:43] and not all the icons are svg [03:44] artnay: and what will you do for the pngs? [03:44] but if there's already fx tango theme done, why change all the action icons? [03:44] they're most commonly used [03:44] frankly speaking I think it's a waste of goo energy, but it's only my humble opinion [03:44] if they would be the same, artwork team should do only minor changes to tango themes [03:45] since there really isn't much people involved in this and we didnt even have any goals set a month ago or so === klepas pokes [03:49] artnay: toi do an "ubuntization" of tango you don't really need a lot of people [03:50] since the icons yo would want to repleace are not that much [03:50] let's say 10-15? [03:51] lapo: yeah, but it's not just the icons as you mentioned before (blue curve) [03:52] lapo: and that's the problem, "the icons I want to replace" :) [03:53] nobody cares which icon I'm thinking of, the decision should come somewhere else (as a team maybe, canonical, who knows) [03:53] that's been the trouble, we all have our ideas but creating a working process out of it has been a mess [03:55] if you look at the list, people aren't co-operating. that's why I suggested to seek for help from tango oriented people [03:55] I don't follow ubuntu's list sorry [03:56] some examples... bvc is having fun with metacity themes but how many times have you spoken to him? what about this nikolai (medicine mask)? at least andy is here :) [03:56] I am a tango oriented guyt and I'm here to help, btw :-) [03:56] there's lots of decent artwork, we should just utilize it [03:57] there isn't some sort of artistic director in ubuntu? [03:57] no, there hasn't been since volvoguy [03:57] where's this volvoguy? [03:57] and if you take into account what happened when team formed, there really hasn't been artwork process to the day [03:58] he had some health problems, you might want ask him [03:58] he's recovering at the moment [03:59] hmm hmm [03:59] artnay: who? [03:59] Tm_T: aaron [03:59] a.k.a volvoguy [03:59] aah [04:00] I remember him [04:00] artnay: http://www.tm-travolta.net/shots/current.png [04:00] ;( [04:01] how come my sentences are missing verbs most of the time... :) [04:01] too many things to be done [04:01] haha === Tm_T is still eating painkillers [04:02] so I'm not in my sharpest knife [04:03] Tm_T: KDE is great with altering KWin bordering [04:03] and also my Kicker is bit unusual [04:03] oh, you haven't seen my kmenu? [04:04] http://www.tm-travolta.net/pics/temp/kmenu-1.png [04:04] Aaron Michael Waite [04:04] best in KDE: make it look yourself [04:04] is that something eatable? I want more customizable menu [04:05] artnay: more? [04:05] the shots by novell (G) looked interesting [04:05] nah [04:07] Tm_T: I'd like to have some other concept, that's it. umh, maybe KDE 4? :o [04:09] aye [04:10] KDE4 will be a lot different [04:11] klepas: do you have any idea to whom has this UI shapeout has been assigned in london? [04:11] klepas: I only find "we" etc. === glatzor [n=sebi@ppp-82-135-75-114.mnet-online.de] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [04:23] no idea === AndyFitz [n=andy@cust1772.qld01.dataco.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === AndyFitz [n=andy@cust1772.qld01.dataco.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [04:50] you're up early AndyFitz [04:51] about to head to bed klepas :-) just finishing my green and gold slurpee [04:51] its awesome to find those colours in slurpee . apparently is a commonwealth games promotion [04:52] cool [04:52] i'm working on a tango gdm [04:54] awesome mate [04:54] thanks === heno [n=henrik@henrik.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === leetcharmer [n=Johnny@pool-72-64-122-185.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [05:04] hihi all :D [05:04] how's the art weekend going? [05:06] hi leetcharmer. if you look at http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/irclogs/ (ctrl f artwork), you'll find that there's been more discussion today than during the whole last week... ;) [05:06] so better than nothing, eh? [05:08] ya! === teolemon [n=famille@car75-5-82-234-128-149.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [05:08] I heart the new icons! [05:10] so -- is there going to be a UI change? or is that frozen? [05:10] there was artwork freeze back in breezy development days, but if you look at the schedule now, no [05:10] it's not frozen [05:11] ahh, kk -- well -- I'm trying to get the hang of Inkscape -- but I have GIMP skills, have anything you'd like me to make? [05:11] klepas will pack tango, do you think you could help him? [05:11] what can I do for him? [05:11] nobody here is in touch with the payed artist who's doing icons for canonical? [05:11] have a chat with klepas [05:12] lapo: ironically, no [05:12] I expectec some guys from canonical to pop up [05:12] klepas: do you need any help? [05:12] leetcharmer: he does :) [05:12] artnay: do you mean today? [05:12] :D [05:13] lapo: on the weekend [05:13] but I'm leaving soon [05:13] isn't now the weekend? :-) [05:13] party will begin in 45 minutes [05:13] oh? [05:13] lapo: I guess it's weekend everywhere now, yeah. some patience ;) [05:14] :D [05:14] artnay: hey, you were doing colour scheme etc earlier, right? never got anything finished? [05:14] Tm_T: what colour scheme? [05:15] actually I wasn't working with colour theme, just using one :p [05:15] erh [05:15] pics! [05:16] artnay: give me screenshot or something about it :) [05:16]