[12:03] <LaserJock> sorry, I was in a meeting
[12:04] <LaserJock> I think that it would be good to probably split the common stuff into ubuntu and kubuntu
[12:04] <LaserJock> I think the doc systems are different enough that it might be a pain to try to make it work for both
[12:05] <LaserJock> what do you think>
[12:05] <LaserJock> ?
[12:05] <robotgeek> LaserJock: just mailed the group actually :)
[12:05] <robotgeek> list, rather
[12:06] <LaserJock> oh, ok great
[12:07] <robotgeek> LaserJock: i'm okay with separate common documents for ubuntu / kubuntu separately
[12:08] <LaserJock> I think the original proposal was just to encourage writers to use common material when possible
[12:08] <LaserJock> because before I think it was basically each doc had it's own preface, etc.
[12:08] <robotgeek> LaserJock: yeah, it makes a lot of sense
[12:08] <robotgeek> maybe i should just add to my email
[12:12] <robotgeek> LaserJock: done: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2006-March/thread.html
[12:12] <mdke> robotgeek, we (ubuntu) are using the preface already, the desktop guide doesn't have a different one anymore
[12:13] <mdke> we decided via the mailing list a couple of weeks back
[12:13] <robotgeek> mdke: oh okay, sorry
[12:14] <mdke> you can go ahead and use it too if it is appropriate
[12:14] <LaserJock> mdke: i think that the problem is that Kubuntu uses a different system
[12:15] <robotgeek> mdke: i'll strip out the headers and use it, no problem
[12:15] <mdke> which headers?
[12:15] <LaserJock> Riddell took out the xincludes
[12:15] <mdke> either the content is appropriate or not, i think
[12:15] <mdke> LaserJock, there are no xincludes in the common preface file
[12:16] <mdke> iirc
[12:16] <robotgeek> mdke: no, there is one
[12:16] <LaserJock> mdke: you right
[12:16] <mdke> oh but that doesn't matter
[12:16] <robotgeek> okay, basically the entities also
[12:16] <mdke> that's just the xinclude module
[12:17] <mdke> does that cause problems?
[12:17] <robotgeek> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9692
[12:17] <LaserJock> robotgeek: why are they removed?
[12:18] <robotgeek> LaserJock: i am not sure, but Ridell said something about meinproc not being able to handle them
[12:18] <mdke> because the stupid kde tools don't read them
[12:18] <LaserJock> ok, so what about the generic docs?
[12:18] <robotgeek> it works fine without the entities and stuff
[12:18] <robotgeek> brb
[12:19] <mdke> LaserJock, yeah
[12:21] <mdke> robotgeek, what produces those errors?
[12:21] <LaserJock> meinproc?
[12:22] <mdke> it looks like its caused by bad addresses
[12:22] <LaserJock> looking at the -doc email
[12:22] <mdke> i'm thinking the validate script
[12:24] <mdke> hmm
[12:26] <robotgeek> yeah, the validate script
[12:27] <mdke> i might take a look tomorrow
[12:27] <mdke> i wonder how riddell builds the serverguide using meinproc
[12:28] <mdke> i don't understand the insistence on meinproc myself :/
[12:28] <robotgeek> mdke: it think it's cause all kde-docs use it?
[12:29] <mdke> there are real reasons too
[12:29] <mdke> but I don't think they are that important
[12:30] <mdke> but then again, I don't use kde so I don't know much about how the help system works
[12:30] <robotgeek> mdke: it's very nice, imho
[12:30] <robotgeek> yelp is awesome too. 
[12:30] <robotgeek> readind xml files directly is very nice
[12:32] <mdke> well I need to look at the difference between the html that xsltproc produces and the html that meinproc produces, but I don't _think_ there can be a significant difference
[12:32] <robotgeek> true
[12:33] <mdke> -> bed
[12:34] <robotgeek> later mdke 
[12:34] <mdke> if you wrinkle out those validation errors, go ahead and commit
[12:34] <robotgeek> i'll not touch it for now then
[12:34] <robotgeek> mdke: it validates when i remove the stuff before it
[12:34] <mdke> sure, the problem must be with the addresses of those entities
[12:34] <mdke> we'll figure it out
[12:34] <mdke> night
[12:35] <robotgeek> maybe a simple solution is to put that in ../../libs just like the fdl.xml
[12:35] <robotgeek> anyways, it can wait, no need to hurry
[09:09] <Madpilot> hi robotgeek 
[09:09] <robotgeek> hey Madpilot 
[09:10] <robotgeek> Madpilot: howz it goin?
[09:10] <Madpilot> OK - lots of stupid scriptmorons on #ubuntu, though  - you've heard about the IRC exploits?
[09:11] <robotgeek> yeah, the netgear / linksys thing?
[09:11] <robotgeek> it's a good thing i'm using irssi over ssh, i do have a netgear router
[09:11] <Madpilot> the d c c crap
[09:12] <robotgeek> yeah, i read about it in lilo's blog
[09:12] <Madpilot> he's going nuts kline'ing people who use it
[09:12] <robotgeek> heh
[09:13] <robotgeek> Madpilot: can you try it for me in /msg :)
[09:13] <Madpilot> I don't actually have the last episode in #ubuntu on backscroll anymore
[09:13] <Madpilot> so you're safe :P
[09:14] <robotgeek> Madpilot: hmm, okay :)
[09:14] <robotgeek> my router wouldn't recognize the evil words anyways
[09:15] <Madpilot> because you're tunneling SSH, not using IRC directly?
[09:15] <robotgeek> yeah
[09:15] <Madpilot> useful
[09:15] <robotgeek> shell does have it's advantages
[09:16] <Madpilot> hey, I finally got Xchat configured the way I want it - it only took about four evenings of occasional fiddling :P
[09:17] <robotgeek> nice, it took me way longer with irssi
[09:17] <Madpilot> mostly re-arranging the rightclick menu to get the op tools & such into a useful order
[09:18] <robotgeek> i just had to get my aliases in order, /kk /kkk /kkkk in order of severity :)
[09:21] <Madpilot> I've got whois, devoice & kickban at the top, then the usual XChat menus below - stuff like D.C.C & CTCP that I never use I shoved to the bottom
[09:25] <robotgeek> Madpilot: what does devoice do? mute a person?
[09:26] <Madpilot> yes, it's mode +q
[09:26] <Madpilot> nice for giant floods, gentler than just kicking the poor noob :P
[09:30] <robotgeek> Madpilot: i am not sure if irssi's /devoice mode is the same, it sets +v
[09:32] <Madpilot> I don't honestly know enough about IRC commands to know what, if any, difference there is...
[09:32] <crimsun> you probably meant -v
[09:32] <robotgeek> yeah, -v
[09:33] <crimsun> +q is muzzling, which is the same effect as -v regardless whether the channel is moderated (+m)
[09:33] <crimsun> on an unmoderated channel (-m), -v has no noticeable effect
[09:34] <crimsun> another way to think of it is whitelisting (+q) vs. blacklisting (+m and -v)
[09:34] <robotgeek> so, it would be useless on say #(k)ubuntu
[09:35] <crimsun> -v would be be pointless on {k}ubuntu, yes
[09:35] <crimsun> (I don't foresee either channel going +m by default, that is)
[09:36] <robotgeek> yeah, we went +m in #ubuntu-motu-school , once
[09:36] <crimsun> yep
[09:36] <Madpilot> so that people had to put their hand up to speak? :P
[09:36] <crimsun> yeah, there were conduits (sh and siretart iirc)
[11:29] <mdke> i've had enough of not understanding this meinproc crap
[11:30] <jpatrick> meinproc keeps displaying errors here
[11:30] <Kamping_Kaiser> meinproc?
[11:30] <Kamping_Kaiser> sounds like a rammstein song <grin>
[11:31] <jpatrick> KDE Translator for XML
[11:31] <Kamping_Kaiser> neat.
[11:31] <mdke> it builds html from xml
[11:32] <mdke> but it doesn't support xincludes, one of our heavily used features, which is a major issue
[11:32] <mdke> I'm going to see if I can make riddell happy by building the exact same html using xsltproc instead of meinproc
[11:32] <mdke> oh great. kubuntu-desktop is uninstallable
[11:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> i think I'm a bit out of my depth, but i get the idea i think
[11:33] <jpatrick> mdke: you mean that nice brown ubuntu theme but blue?
[11:33] <jpatrick> what's wrong with it?
[11:33] <mdke> jpatrick, the kubuntu-desktop package is uninstallable
[11:33] <jpatrick> but why?
[11:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> is there a brown theme for Kubuntu?
[11:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> mdke: your running dapper? are you getting PNP errrors on boot?
[11:49] <mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, yes, it's in the bug tracker.
[11:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok.
[11:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> hm. I'm getting your KDE thing as well, i think it's https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/33533
[11:57] <jpatrick> openoffice update issue
[02:46] <mdke> hmm it's not bad this kubuntu lark
[02:52] <jpat|away> lark...
[02:53] <mdke> so irritating the popups which come up over the panel though
[02:54] <jpat|away> never seen those
[02:55] <mdke> hover your mouse over a panel application applet, or window
[02:55] <mdke> this crazy popup slides up
[02:55] <jpat|away> oh those!
[02:56] <mdke> they block the window I'm looking at >_<
[02:57] <jpat|away> configure panel -> appearance -> show tooltips
[02:57] <mdke> ok I reckon we can do this without meinproc
[02:57] <mdke> thanks
[08:31] <carthik> Is the meeting over?
[08:31] <carthik> I suppose it is :)
[08:36] <robotgeek> carthik: hey
[08:36] <robotgeek> carthik: you are about 24 hours late :P
[08:36] <carthik> hey robotgeek - wondering if, for the cleanup, there is some way to delete/rename pages, or if I can be of help
[08:37] <carthik> robotgeek, the channel message made me think it was prolly a typo in the date
[08:37] <robotgeek> carthik: yeah, to delete you click actions and delete
[08:37] <robotgeek> carthik: however, google the page first to see if any external site links to the article
[08:38] <carthik> robotgeek, alright. how about renaming/redirecting mediawiki style?
[08:39] <robotgeek> carthik: you just say #redirect target
[08:39] <robotgeek> carthik: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnProcessingInstructions?highlight=%28redirect%29
[08:40] <carthik> robotgeek, thank you. maybe i can move in some more of the stuff from that blog i have
[08:40] <carthik> or cleanup the pages requiring cleanup
[08:40] <robotgeek> carthik: for example take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocbookVim?action=show
[08:42] <carthik> cool, robotgeek 
[08:42] <robotgeek> i gotta run, later
[08:42] <carthik> thanks, robotgeek , later.