[10:18] <klepas> hello
[10:20] <artnay> hey klepas
[10:20] <artnay> I saw that your tango package is progressing
[10:20] <klepas> how was that party?
[10:21] <klepas> yea man
[10:21] <artnay> uh, it was great. not to mention the after party which basically took me the whole sunday :(
[10:21] <klepas> cool
[10:22] <klepas> from the photos of the event on the site it looked like a blast
[10:22] <artnay> never had so fun with water ;)
[10:22] <klepas> :)
[10:23] <klepas> i sent off a mail to lokheed
[10:23] <artnay> so what happened in london?
[10:23] <klepas> they had a UI sprint
[10:23] <klepas> over the weeken
[10:23] <klepas> s/weeken/weekend
[10:24] <klepas> lokheed will be doing the gaim tango set
[10:25] <klepas> and a tango gaim dialogue image/splash thingy :)
[10:26] <artnay> was there any canonicals here?
[10:26] <artnay> oh well, I might just as well dist-upgrade
[10:28] <artnay> hmh, it wants to remove oo.o and since there's no updated ubuntu-artwork, I'll let it be as it is
[10:28] <artnay> really, what's happening with the screensavers?
[10:30] <artnay> gnome-screensaver is filled up with useless screensavers as there's no GUI to tweak them
[10:31] <artnay> should people really edit their screensavers using $editor?
[10:32] <klepas> no idea
[10:32] <klepas> i'm on breezy
[10:32] <artnay> wasn't there ubuntu screensaver somewhere? it's not listed on gnome-screensaver nor xscreensaver
[10:32] <klepas> i'm considering distupgrading
[10:33] <klepas> gaim 2 binaries are in dapper
[10:33] <klepas> saves me from compiling this crap
[10:33] <artnay> oh well, mark will most probably clean up the most useless screensavers (at least I hope so)
[10:33] <artnay> there was a bug on it at bugzilla
[10:36] <klepas> is it safe to update to dapper?
[10:36] <klepas> not too broken?
[10:37] <artnay> I guess it depends on what you're using :o
[10:37] <artnay> I've used it for the last four months, it should be quite safe now as it's in freeze already
[10:38] <lapo> hi
[10:41] <artnay> hey lapo
[10:42] <artnay> nice modifications, I especially liked the computer icon without ubuntu background
[10:42] <artnay> that's something what we should have started months ago as a team
[10:47] <andreasn> hello
[10:48] <lapo> artnay, I'd like the sabdfl to make his payed artist to follow a similar style (so tango guidelines)
[10:48] <lapo> ciao andreasn 
[10:48] <andreasn> lapo: how is the work on the icons going?
[10:49] <artnay> lapo: or at least tell the guys name and get in contact with him
[10:49] <artnay> have a discussion here or something
[10:49] <lapo> or pay some of the tango artist to do it (*hint* andreasn)
[10:49] <lapo> andreasn, I did the printer
[10:49] <andreasn> or *hint* lapo for that matter
[10:49] <artnay> lapo: have any tango members offered their help?
[10:50] <artnay> I know some guys that have some really decent icon sets and they offered their help to canonical
[10:50] <artnay> but canonical refused
[10:51] <artnay> probably many others have asked the same question as well, but as the whole ubuntu-artwork isn't that well informed, who knows what is happening *don't kick me*
[10:51] <artnay> although there's been improvements within a month or so
[10:52] <lapo> artnay, I don't know, I don't think any of us contacted canonical directly tho
[10:52] <artnay> lapo: oh, ok
[10:52] <lapo> artnay, a pair of nice guys helped me with those icons btw
[10:52] <artnay> maybe they wanted some gnome-oriented artists to do the work
[10:53] <lapo> gnome oriented?
[10:53] <artnay> and as canonical has some gnome devs, it might have been an inside discussion
[10:53] <artnay> people who have contributed to gnome in the past
[10:54] <lapo> artnay, uhm...icon should not be gnome specific
[10:54] <lapo> icons
[10:55] <lapo> andreasn, I have a job and have no time for this stuff, you should contact canonical and offer you services to them, really
[10:55] <artnay> lapo: what I meant to say, they might want to hire people who have given some love to gnome artwork and thus are their friends or so
[10:55] <artnay> and I do agree, let's not have gnome specific icons
[10:56] <andreasn> artnay: I don't think it's about gnome or not, but rather that they are looking for a schooled designer
[10:56] <lapo> artnay, dunno, those icons style don't recall me any gnome artist I know of
[10:56] <artnay> it's a shame that in this open development process we don't even know who's working those
[10:57] <lapo> they looks a bit like early tig work, but he work for nokia now
[10:57] <artnay> my first though was that it's tigert
[10:57] <lapo> artnay, this is way I'd like to talk with the sabdfl
[10:57] <lapo> tig is better than that:-)
[10:57] <artnay> :)
[10:58] <lapo> and I would have followed tango guidelines
[10:58] <artnay> maybe it was just a teaser and some things were left there for a purpose
[10:58] <andreasn> it seems they made something that blends in good with g-i-t, problem is that g-i-t is movind towards tango
[10:58] <artnay> to get people interest and tell "it shouldn't be that way", "it's breaking hig", "let's do this and that"
[10:58] <lapo> andreasn, yep, tat's the other reason why I'd like to talk with the sabdfl
[10:59] <artnay> and what's happening with ubuntu-artwork anyways?
[10:59] <artnay> have you seen the latest gnome splash?
[10:59] <andreasn> I think we should come up with a good alternative set, but with the same boldness that this set offers
[10:59] <lapo> artnay, you mean the offical gnome one?
[10:59] <artnay> will they change it? what do they want out of it?
[10:59] <andreasn> and still following the tango-guidelines
[10:59] <artnay> lapo: no, dapper one
[10:59] <artnay> well they will change it but to what
[10:59] <andreasn> artnay: url?
[10:59] <artnay> umh
[11:00] <artnay> don't have a one
[11:00] <artnay> it basically the same as it has been in the earlier versions
[11:00] <artnay> a bit modified
[11:00] <lapo> artnay, I think the guy who is doing th offical gnome splash could thelp them
[11:00] <artnay> and then there reads with a big font "THIS IS NOT THE FINAL ARTWORK FOR DAPPER"
[11:00] <lapo> well, he woulc be happy to help them
[11:00] <artnay> so it seems the development is being done somewhere
[11:00] <lapo> *hint* *hint* :-)
[11:01] <artnay> but who is working on that?
[11:01] <andreasn> well, anyway, it seems that some set featuring tango will go into dapper, but only in extras
[11:01] <andreasn> what, the guy working on the gnome-splash for 2.14? me?
[11:01] <lapo> eheh
[11:01] <artnay> actually the same thing happened with usplash on the very first dapper month
[11:01] <artnay> it read "UBUNTU DAPPER" with big, ugly white font
[11:02] <artnay> then they changed it
[11:02] <artnay> just for laughs, eh?
[11:02] <andreasn> tango may be the default in xubuntu btw, just need to help those guys with some extra icons
[11:02] <artnay> yeah, I read the log
[11:02] <lapo> artnay, the right way(TM) is:
[11:03] <artnay> default tango or a bit modified tango?
[11:03] <andreasn> in xubuntu?
[11:03] <andreasn> default I think
[11:03] <artnay> ok, I was just thinking of the colours
[11:03] <lapo> * follow the tango guidelines to do a branded theme following the tango guidelines (something like what I did) and iherits tango (or git2) icons
[11:04] <lapo> * contribut to tango (or git2) the missing icons
[11:04] <lapo> the new git2 will have a lot less icons than current git, integrated with -extra themes for mimetypes
[11:04] <andreasn> artnay: if xubuntu get a silver-identity (just as ubuntu is brown and orange and kubuntu is blue), then xubuntu could get grey folders
[11:05] <lapo> lets say gnome-theme-artists-extras may contain all the different mimetypes icons for images and the like
[11:05] <artnay> andreasn: that's what I was thinking, modify the colour scheme to fit the look of *buntu
[11:05] <artnay> but that brings some problems
[11:05] <andreasn> what problems?
[11:06] <artnay> if only you could decide DE-centric colours with CSS to icon theme
[11:06] <artnay> what if user is using GNOME and XFCE?
[11:06] <artnay> and by default it should fit both of them
[11:06] <lapo> artnay, I don't believe the css idea can work nicely
[11:07] <artnay> but that's a minor issue, it's better to have a nice set that fits the default CD media
[11:07] <andreasn> well, there could be xubuntu-jazzdance (a package with just the grey folders that inhereits tango)
[11:07] <lapo> artnay, look at the color modification of the folders I did, I didn't changed only the body color, I had to make the wave and the inner stroke more evident
[11:07] <artnay> if one downloads *-desktop, he can most probably change the icons as well
[11:08] <lapo> artnay, I nicer way is to use a different theme with the alternative folders that inherits the base theme, as andreasn is saying
[11:08] <artnay> could you provide a link once again? my backlog is full and I just cleared private data
[11:09] <lapo> http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bat/dappericons/
[11:09] <artnay> *bookmarked*
[11:09] <artnay> so is the folder icon the main concern with tango and different *buntus?
[11:09] <andreasn> lapo: wow, nice printer
[11:10] <lapo> tnx
[11:10] <andreasn> artnay: yeah, if you want to fit a certain color scheme
[11:10] <lapo> artanay, one theme per *buntu with only the folder
[11:11] <artnay> so are you guys thinking of adding an extension to some MIME icons?
[11:11] <lapo> artnay, lets say, ubuntu base icon theme + ubuntu theme, kubuntu theme, xubuntu theme
[11:11] <lapo> uhm?
[11:11] <lapo> can you rephrase it?
[11:12] <artnay> like PNG/JPG/GIF or OGG/MP3/WAV/ACC in the icon
[11:12] <artnay> all should the colour do it?
[11:12] <lapo> the idea is to have something like an extension system
[11:12] <lapo> uhm?
[11:12] <artnay> to differ formats from each other
[11:13] <lapo> artnay, dunno exactly at the moment
[11:13] <artnay> that's against hig but it would be much better that way
[11:13] <lapo> against hig?
[11:13] <artnay> I was pleasantaly surprised that the guy who is developing ubuntu icon set chose that way
[11:13] <artnay> no unnecessary text in icons, whatever that means
[11:14] <lapo> artnay, I think the file manager should place the text labels if the user want, but we are not at that point atm
[11:14] <artnay> that's mostly audio icon issue as many people use picture preview
[11:15] <lapo> artnay, dunno about audio, the only ideas I have atm are for images, someone will surelly came up sith something good for audio btw
[11:16] <lapo> tango have a nice community with a good number of nice artists involved
[11:16] <artnay> I won't be telling my mom that don't put green audio files into your mp3 player as it can't play them, just use the yellow and blue ones
[11:16] <andreasn> so, klepas suggested that we should do a total tango-branded set (gdm, splash etc. with the tango-logo and stuff)...what do you think about that
[11:17] <lapo> as I said klepas I don't think it's the right course of action
[11:17] <andreasn> I'm not sure about the tango-branding though
[11:17] <andreasn> lapo: I agree
[11:17] <lapo> tango branding is bad
[11:17] <lapo> tango is not about branding
[11:18] <andreasn> yes, the only people that should be aware of tango is developers, not like my mother-in-law
[11:18] <artnay> if everything is "tango", my mom will be using tango as her next os then x)
[11:20] <andreasn> lapo: I'm more for having stuff based on your dapper-icons and gdm-themes etc. that follow the guidelines but still feels bold
[11:20] <andreasn> and brave
[11:21] <lapo> I'm more for it as well :-)
[11:21] <andreasn> as that is ubuntus real strengh brand-wize, while osx is elegant and cold and windows is...whatever windows is
[11:22] <lapo> the right word, is a mess :)
[11:22] <andreasn> windows wants to be what osx is asteticly aswell
[11:22] <artnay> familiar to most of the people, I'd say :p
[11:22] <artnay> vista doesn't even have icons yet
[11:22] <artnay> neither does dapper
[11:23] <andreasn> vista don't have icons?
[11:23] <artnay> its icon set is not complete yet
[11:23] <artnay> the icons released are just teasers
[11:23] <artnay> the final artwork will be released later on
[11:24] <artnay> icon artwork, as they will use aero glass and that black elegant start menu
[11:24] <andreasn> well, anyway, my point is that ubuntu is very different from both osx and windows asteticly, being more human, we should work on that
[11:24] <artnay> true
[11:24] <andreasn> human, but also, with this new orange tint and style, very brave
[11:25] <andreasn> as some people hate orange and some love it
[11:25] <artnay> it was rather surprising decision
[11:25] <andreasn> but a good one
[11:26] <artnay> somehow it reminds me of os x folder blue
[11:27] <andreasn> the tango-ones?
[11:27] <andreasn> or lapos dapper-icons?
[11:27] <andreasn> or the ones proposed for dapper?
[11:28] <artnay> just the colour, for some reason it reminds of os x
[11:28] <artnay> being so bright I guess
[11:29] <andreasn> what folder?
[11:29] <artnay> yeah, the orange colour used in folders
[11:29] <artnay> I liked the brown in human yasis but I guess it blends too well with the background they're thinking of
[11:30] <artnay> so orange should have your focus on a brown desktop, I guess
[11:30] <andreasn> where can I find human yasis?
[11:30] <andreasn> yeah, brown and orange looks good together
[11:31] <artnay> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=33674
[11:34] <andreasn> so, is anyone with me on a bold and brave set following the tango-palette
[11:35] <lapo> do I have to answer? :-)
[11:36] <lapo> I'll surelly help you
[11:36] <artnay> andreasn: using palette where?
[11:37] <andreasn> in splashes, gdm etc
[11:37] <lapo> sabdfl is online
[11:37] <lapo> should I try to invite him here?
[11:37] <artnay> andreasn: sure thing if it's not overused. colourful is fine, but too much colours will make epileptic
[11:38] <artnay> lapo: I think many other things keep him busy
[11:38] <artnay> and he watches ML
[11:38] <artnay> unless we really have an agenda here, I wouldn't invite him
[11:38] <artnay> what the hell, go ahead if you want to have a chat with him :)
[11:38] <artnay> maybe he could enlighten us
[11:39] <lapo> let's see
[11:43] <artnay> andreasn: you said the decision using orange is good
[11:43] <artnay> I wonder how far will they go with it
[11:43] <lapo> artnay, uhm?
[11:44] <artnay> will it only be used in icons and which icons etc.
[11:45] <lapo> artnay, with the style they are using I think they should do a lot of icons so they can use orange in every place they want
[11:45] <andreasn> artnay: well, it would be sane to use it together with brown and gray
[11:45] <andreasn> and perhaps some red
[11:46] <artnay> but the rumour has it that brown will be changed for dapper+1
[11:46] <artnay> which would be a shame
[11:48] <andreasn> well, as long as they keep using warm colors and don't go away from the ubuntu-identity so to say
[11:52] <artnay> true, brown is easy to eyes (at least compared to horrible luna)
[11:57] <andreasn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDapperLook
[11:57] <andreasn> #dapper-look
[11:58] <artnay> I wonder why /Artwork isn't being used. that was the idea of it originally, have one place for all artwork stuff
[11:58] <artnay> easier to track changes and get the overall picture
[11:58] <andreasn> lapo: I need to go to class now, perhaps you can chat to some people making the decitions
[11:59] <lapo> see you later andreasn 
[11:59] <andreasn> in #dapper-look
[11:59] <andreasn> I'll tune in at 18:00 or something
[11:59] <artnay> bye
[12:14] <sabdfl> hi guys!
[12:15] <lapo> hi mark, tnx for your attention
[12:15] <lapo> and sorry for the intrusion
[12:15] <lapo> btw, I've seen your new dappericons
[12:15] <sabdfl> np
[12:16] <sabdfl> i've just seen yours :-)
[12:16] <lapo> I think you should make your artists follows the tango guidelines
[12:16] <lapo> as you can see from the icons I did, you can do it with little modifications
[12:16] <sabdfl> i'm not mad about the tango guidelines, they seem to need to settle out quite a bit still
[12:17] <lapo> and the whole desktop experience will surelly be better
[12:17] <lapo> uhm..the guidelines are quite clear and simple
[12:17] <lapo> consider that new git will be tango style
[12:18] <lapo> youre icons fits well with the current git, but not so well with the next git
[12:18] <lapo> using tango will give you various benefits
[12:18] <lapo> firt of all less icons to draw :-)
[12:18] <lapo> first even
[12:19] <lapo> doing a complete icon theme is an enormous effort
[12:19] <lapo> have you ever used redhat/fedora?
[12:21] <lapo> bluecurve is the most complete icon theme around (not consider gnome-icon-theme), but it doesn't fits well wit the rest of the icons, so the desktop experience feels uncomplete
[12:21] <lapo> when I use redhat the first thing I do is to change the icon theme to git
[12:22] <lapo> using a "tango compliant" theme will let you integrate well with tango and git2 theme at least (as well oxygen probably since thier guidelines are similar to tango's)
[12:23] <lapo> so you'll need to draw only the icons revelant for branding (more or less the ones I did) and inherits the rest
[12:23] <lapo> so to summurize
[12:24] <lapo> * less icons to draw
[12:24] <lapo> * better desktop experience
[12:24] <lapo> tango actually have a nice community with lot of good people contributing to it
[12:24] <lapo> so you don't have to maintain a full set of icons
[12:27] <lapo> this is how the next git will looks like: http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=git2
[12:28] <lapo> I think I wasted enough of your time now :-)
[12:38] <sabdfl> not wasted
[12:38] <sabdfl> that's useful info
[12:42] <lapo> I have no time to do all the icons for ubuntu, but I can surelly help, you could check on tango-artists ml or on #tango if there are artists who can do the job
[12:44] <adl> think so too, its useful info if you ask me, no time wasted
[12:58] <jimmac> howdy folks
[12:58] <lapo> yo jimmac
[01:00] <jimmac> so what's the latest status on the dapper icon theme?
[01:00] <sabdfl> not yet
[01:01] <sabdfl> hey jimmac
[01:01] <sabdfl> we're hoping to get a first cut of that packaged today
[01:02] <jimmac> one thing you probably talked with lapo is about making the style follow tango style guidelines...
[01:37] <klepas> sabdfl: ping
[01:45] <jsgotangco> klepas, try #dapper-look
[02:01] <klepas> jsgotangco: cheers