[12:06] <shaya> I said, dapper
[12:06] <shaya> platform I guess I missed
[12:06] <shaya> x86
[12:09] <cavediver> Hi guys, First off, you rock ! All of you. Then I have a question regarding cryptsetup-luks. Is there some plan on getting those volumes to interact with gnome-volume-manager so i don't have to mount through console ?
[12:10] <cavediver> I know some guy on Red-hat is working on a solution that seems nice. But I'm not sure that are planned to go into Ubuntu in the future.
[12:55] <desrt> are we going to have a new circle of friends for dapper?
[12:58] <jdub> yeah
[01:06] <HiddenWolf> way cool
[01:16] <theCore> does I'm the only one who experience problems with xbsh ?
[01:29] <desrt> http://www.fuplayer.org/
[01:32] <floam> heh
[01:34] <floam> why maintain a patchset when you can fork?!
[01:34] <desrt> why get your patches accepted upstream when you can maintain a patchset?
[01:35] <floam> well, not everyone's crazy idea is suitable
[01:36] <desrt> is it a rb fork?
[01:40] <lamont> (hoary->breezy->dapper machine)
[01:41] <desrt> lamont; apt-get remove xscreensaver
[01:42] <lamont> well, that gets me down to one screensaver, albeit with none of the old preferences.
[01:43] <lamont> mind you, it still doesn't lock...
[01:48] <desrt> the lack of preferences in the new dialog is a bit annoyin
[02:12] <joelbryan>  Hi!, what's wrong with my code? -- > http://pastebin.com/585160 I'm trying to switch views using a notebooks, but I get segmentation faults. Could someone help me?
[02:13] <jdub> zul: eh
[02:13] <jdub> zul: grub quietness patch!
[02:14] <joelbryan> jdub: How do I get my software to be in mainstream with Ubuntu?
[02:14] <mrd`> Write software that users want.
[02:15] <joelbryan> Is it still open?
[02:15] <jdub> joelbryan: that's a very big question. what's your software?
[02:15] <mrd`> Dapper might not be, but in general I'm sure they'll add anything that users have an interest in and fits Ubuntu's goals.
[02:16] <joelbryan> it's not yet released, I'm still doing it
[02:16] <jdub> joelbryan: highly unlikely anything new would get into the 'main' repository at this stage
[02:17] <joelbryan> yeah, should it be mature enough.
[02:17] <Lathiat> Is it possible to demote binary packages to universe from a main source package?
[02:17] <Lathiat> and have that count as 'unsupported' ?
[02:17] <jdub> Lathiat: in some cases, we have
[02:18] <Lathiat> (in this case, the avahi howl/bonjour compat packages, it seems silly to create a whole new avahi package just to put those in universe, as slomo seems to suggest the way around this)
[02:18] <Lathiat> where as i thought you could just demote thingws
[02:18] <infinity> Lathiat: Binary packages can only be demoted if the source is still fully self-contained in main.
[02:18] <Lathiat> infinity: it is
[02:18] <infinity> Lathiat: So, if avahi has to build-dep on stuff in universe to build those packages, the source needs to be in universe.
[02:18] <Lathiat> they dont bring in any extra deps
[02:19] <infinity> If not, then it should be fine to pop the packages in universe, but you'll still need to get some FeatureFreeze forgiveness to mangle a source package in main to produce new binaries.
[02:20] <joelbryan> jdub: supposed a user just installed ubuntu, and he tries to click on an mp3, and there's a dialog that appears, "you are trying to play a media with proprietary codec, however we can convert those to OGG theora", should this be have legal problems too?
[02:20] <joelbryan> s/theora/vorbis/g
[02:21] <mrd`> You still need a proprietary codec to decode the mp3.
[02:21] <ajmitch> Lathiat: it's still crack if apps in main need the avahi compat libs
[02:21] <jdub> mrd`: you wouldn't need a proprietary codec
[02:22] <Lathiat> ajmitch: sure, but it means people can use them themselves
[02:22] <mrd`> jdub: To decode an mp3?
[02:22] <Lathiat> ajmitch: and doign that otherwise is difficult 
[02:22] <jdub> joelbryan: that would mean shipping an mp3 decoder, simply to do that conversion, which is the same thing as shipping an mp3 decoder to do the playing you're trying to avoid :-)
[02:22] <joelbryan> mrd`: what if the user be prompted to enable his universe repos and automatically download ffmpeg2theora, should it have problems too, the package is available in universe, but not in the main cd
[02:22] <mrd`> jdub: Sorry, I should say ``patented'', not proprietary.
[02:22] <Lathiat> they either have to rebuild avahi or compile there own copy which is undesirable either way
[02:24] <joelbryan> everything should be prompted to the user to enable his universe repos and auto download and install that packges
[02:25] <joelbryan> should it have legal problems too?
[02:25] <infinity> If we are seen to be encouraging users to install software they need a patent license to use, we may be in hot water, yes.
[02:26] <joelbryan> ok
[02:26] <mjg59> If we're /supplying/ software they need a patent license to use, we may be in hot water
[02:26] <infinity> Having it passively reside in an archive that people can find if they look around is a grey area, but having something that says "you'll need this to play this, click here now" is no better than installing it by default.
[02:27] <joelbryan> how about on the case of windows emulators?
[02:27] <slomo_> Lathiat: i answered to your comment in the avahi-compat bug... could you please mail Kamion/mdz for a FF exception? and verify that packages demoted to universe are really unsupported?
[02:27] <infinity> mjg59: Our repositories are filled with stuff you /may/ need a patent license to use.  Trick is that we don't install it by default, tell the users to install it, or any such thing, so users (in theory) can download it or not, depending on their own legal situation.  The whole thing, I admit, is twelve kinds of sketchy anyway.
[02:28] <zul> jdub: yep..
[02:28] <Lathiat> slomo_: i just asked that here
[02:28] <mrd`> joelbryan: wine doesn't infringe any known patents.
[02:28] <zul> jdub: it works ok for me right now..
[02:29] <jdub> zul: that's one of my favourite bugs. thank you. :-)
[02:29] <slomo_> Lathiat: ok... you write the FF exception mail?
[02:29] <zul> jdub: no probs
[02:29] <Lathiat> yep
[02:29] <slomo_> Lathiat: thanks
[02:29] <joelbryan> so should it be OK to ship an interface that when a user tries to open an exe file, software repos properties appears, and automatically download wine?
[02:30] <mrd`> Or just install wine by default.
[02:32] <infinity> Maybe I'm a cynic, but I figure we have enough of our own trojans and viruses to worry about, without helpfully giving users a gateway in the default install to run all the virsues for another OS on their system too.
[02:33] <infinity> (No qualms about helpfully telling users how to execute windows binaries should they want to, though)
[02:33] <mrd`> Right.
[02:36] <joelbryan> jdub: I'm doing  simple dialog that has an option that says "speed up internet" and a dialog to install squid will appear, and have an option to "speed up system", and a dialog to install prelink appears. do you think a software like this could make it in Ubuntu?
[02:37] <infinity> joelbryan: prelink appears to do Very Bad Things to initramfs right now..
[02:37] <infinity> (as in, systems become unbootable)
[02:37] <joelbryan> infinity: how about squid?
[02:38] <infinity> I need to look into it, but I wouldn't want to recommend it to non-technical users until we know it works right.
[02:38] <infinity> squid?  <shrug>... Should be fine, but how much do you really gain in proxying a single user?
[02:38] <infinity> Users who want proxies should use their ISP, generally (or proxy the home network, or, or)
[02:38] <joelbryan> infinity: it speeds up their browsing experience.
[02:39] <mrd`> joelbryan: How?
[02:39] <infinity> Only if they A) hit the same page over and over again, and B) aren't doing so explicitly to look for new content (in which case, they'll do a hard refresh, invalidate the cache, and round-trip to the remote system anyway)
[02:39] <mrd`> joelbryan: For a single user.
[02:39] <slomo_> and browser have caches too...
[02:40] <joelbryan> squid caches the webpages you visited, so you don't have to download it again.
[02:41] <infinity> joelbryan: Which your web browser also does.
[02:42] <mrd`> I don't think that anyone's contesting squid can speed up a whole network, but on a single machine it's not as useful.
[02:42] <joelbryan> I have a dsl, and my gf only has a dialup, I installed squid in her pc, and I can say, it's speed up everything, responces, and low bandwidth consumption.
[02:43] <joelbryan> comparable to my connection, when I browse, everything is re downloaded again
[02:44] <joelbryan> but for her using a dialup, the speed and response time and bandwidth consumption are dramatically lower.
[02:44] <joelbryan> it' loads up instantly!
[02:48] <joelbryan> mrd`: not only just a single user can use it,.
[02:57] <joelbryan> should it be a good idea for the Ubuntu Marketing team to ask the record album artist to ship Ubuntu CD's in their album, other possibilites is they included the OGG video or audio in 
[03:13] <robertj> does totem run regionset in dapper if needed?
[03:15] <desrt> robertj; i seriously doubt it
[03:26] <robertj> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/libdvdread/+bug/16722
[03:26] <Ubugtu> malone bug 16722 in libdvdread "Unable to read DVD (video) on brand new laptop (with possible solution)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[03:27] <robertj> someone want to confirm that?
[03:31] <infinity> robertj: Yes, it's a valid bug, but I'm not sure where the fix belongs... (blindly calling regionset and setting the region to something the user doesn't want is definitely a no-no, so players need to have some GUI popups or something to trigger the change themselves if they suspect it's needed)
[03:38] <joelbryan> I have a desktop proposal, because I believe that in the future, everything should be treated as objects, like when I click a directory, they don't see other things that concerns them, they see their files. I believe in spatial, but the previous spatial proves to be uneffective to some. So here's my proposal, should I say this is an evolution of spatial. there' are two commands to make this happen, the first is, gconftool-2 -t string -s /deskt
[03:38] <joelbryan> op/gnome/interface/toolbar_style "icons" this set's the default "Both" into "Icons, and the second is "gconftool-2 -t boolean -s /apps/nautilus/preferences/start_with_sidebar "0" ", this does not start the sidebar at start. It affects, alot of applications, like gthumb and eog, and it makes everything feels like an object.
[03:42] <joelbryan> :-( seems like I'm +i (ignored) here... :-(
[03:44] <robertj> infinity, what about setting it according to their locale if it's unset?
[03:44] <robertj> they would still have several more tries
[03:45] <robertj> infinity, thoughts?
[03:45] <infinity> robertj: Until some manufacturer decides to make a "one-try-and-that's-it" drive, and users hunt you down and hurt you because you just locked their firmware on a region they don't own any discs in.
[03:45] <robertj> infinity, that's not standardized?
[03:45] <infinity> (And if you think that's far-fetched, realise that it's exactly what the MPAA wants, and they are very pursuasive...)
[03:46] <infinity> I don't think setting a region without first asking the user is EVER a good idea.
[03:46] <infinity> Windows doesn't do it either (but all the windows players, and the underlying subsystem, have GUIs to ask you about it)
[03:46] <lamont> infinity++
[03:49] <infinity> lamont: Care to look at the glib2.0 FTBFS on ia64 and sort out why it hates you?
[03:49] <robertj> infinity, what about hooking it into the gstreamer plugin?
[03:49] <stub> Launchpad will be going down in 15 minutes. Estimated down time is 'up to 3 hours', as we are migrating the backend PostgreSQL instance to a new and improved server. Wikis will be in read only mode during this time.
[03:49] <infinity> lamont: That's the only thing (afaict) blocking rebuilding the GTK/GNOME stack on ia64 and getting it installable again.
[03:49] <lamont> infinity: ok
[03:51] <jdub> glib loves lamont
[03:51] <jdub> it just hates ia64!
[03:52] <lamont> sword even
[04:31] <jdub> elmo: taking sync requests here?
[04:31] <elmo> jdub: sure
[04:31] <elmo> (they won't get actioned till I win my fight with LP tho - which is unlikely to be tonight)
[04:31] <jdub> ahr
[04:32] <jdub> elmo: please sync lighttpd 1.4.10-4 from unstable :-)
[04:32] <mjg59> Hurrah.
[04:32] <jdub> mjg59: ooh
[04:33] <mjg59> Just sound to get working now, really
[04:33] <Lathiat> on the intelmac or a ppc mac?
[04:34] <mjg59> Intel
[04:34] <Lathiat> cool
[04:34] <Lathiat> what was it breaking before?
[04:35] <mjg59> Well, a variety of stuff was broken
[04:35] <ajmitch> what sound chip does the intel mac use?
[04:36] <mjg59> HDA
[04:36] <mjg59> Need to poke that a little
[04:37] <ajmitch> there's been some recent work done with that in alsa 
[04:40] <mjg59> Cool
[04:46] <psusi> err
[04:50] <psusi> hrm... why was I thinking I saw earlier release was on the 15th?  oh well, still have over a month
[05:54] <robertj> infinity, would it be acceptable to allow a non-admin user to set the DVD region assuming there would be at least one change remaining after that user set it?
[06:01] <carlk> robertj: why would you want that?
[06:02] <infinity> robertj: So, a non-admin user gets into a "region war" with the actual administrator(s) of the machine, until you run out of changes and get locked in? :)
[06:03] <infinity> In short, given that region setting is something that actually affects the hardware (well, the firmware) of the machine in a permanent way, I don't see that non-admin users should ever get to touch it.
[06:04] <psusi> don't use regions at all and you don't have to worry about it ;)
[06:05] <psusi> can you even do that in linux?  I thought you just allways used libdecss which bypasses the region coding anyhow
[06:05] <infinity> No, it won't bypass correctly on a machine that doesn't have an initial region set at all.
[06:06] <infinity> To play region 4 DVDs on my new laptop with libdvdcss, I still had to set the region (which I set to 1) the first time.
[06:06] <psusi> eh?  I thought the region code was checked during decryption, which is bypassed by libdecss?
[06:06] <infinity> Whether this is a libdvdcss bug, a strange behaviour of most DVD drive firmware or what, I don't know.
[06:07] <psusi> I'm sure I remember reading that whatever ripping software I used back in windows also bypassed the region check
[06:07] <infinity> Trust me on this, you need *A* region set, even if it's the incorrect one.
[06:18] <carlk> robertj: seems you are sugesting that threre would the case be where the admin would want to leave it up to the user
[06:20] <infinity> Which seems unlikely.  As an admin, I'd never say "here, have your way with my firmware"... If I trusted them that much, they'd be in the "admin" group.
[06:20] <carlk> right.
[06:23] <jdub> mjg59: ping
[06:29] <jdub> mjg59: never mind
[06:31] <desrt> pfah.  psusi troublemaker :p
[06:32] <jdub> how would a normal human being understand that a miniplug socket might actually be 'digital optical' compatible if you have the right cable adapter?
[06:32] <desrt> jdub; if you know enough to be angry at the consumer-grade product then they've got a good chance of making you buy the expensive one
[06:33] <desrt> like, spdif style?
[06:33] <jdub> you can get an adapter from miniplug (3.5" jack) to toslink (spdif)
[06:34] <desrt> the miniplug is spdif too
[06:34] <jdub> and various hardware have miniplug sockets that do analogue and digital
[06:34] <desrt> spdif also comes in an RCA jack flavour
[06:34] <desrt> it's all the same thing
[06:34] <jdub> yet normal human beings would never actually know any of the above
[06:34] <desrt> true story
[06:34] <jdub> because it's stupid consumer electronics insanity
[06:35] <jdub> so apple can say that the mac mini has digital optical and analogue miniplug socket
[06:35] <desrt> i wouldn't be suprised of the 'adaptor' was an LED
[06:35] <desrt> *if
[06:35] <jdub> but it took even me a while to figure out how that worked
[06:37] <desrt> http://www.cablesnmor.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=213
[06:38] <desrt> seriously.  i bet it's just an LED :)
[06:39] <desrt> ....alternatively
[06:39] <desrt> i wonder if they do the conversion for you... like if inside the minijack there's a little laser
[06:39] <desrt> if you put in a normal plug, nothing happens... but you can put in a fibre optic plug that is open to the laser light
[06:40] <desrt> in that case they may be able to legitimately claim optical support
[06:40] <carlk> or just flash the led all the time
[06:41] <carlk> not like it is going to wear out anytime soon
[06:41] <desrt> right... this is what i mean by "nothing happens"
[06:41] <desrt> it flashes and nobody notices
[06:41] <carlk> how sad
[06:41] <desrt> k.  this appears to be true.
[06:41] <desrt> it's called 'minijack optical'
[06:43] <jdub> so the minijack->toslink converter is a correctly moulded HOLE?
[06:43] <carlk> ;p;
[06:43] <desrt> well.. there's probably some clear plastic in there
[06:43] <carlk> er...
[06:43] <carlk> wow
[06:43] <ajmitch> don't underestimate the power of marketing
[06:43] <carlk> is there a gold plated version?
[06:45] <carlk> cuz the rep was in here last week and showed us the results of tests done with o-scopes and sound proof rooms.  the numbers don't lie
[07:13] <G0SUB> jdub there?
[07:26] <pitti> Good morning
[07:28] <freeflying> pitti: morning
[07:29] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[07:29] <pitti> hi guys
[08:01] <sivang> morning all
[08:01] <sivang> hi pitti 
[08:02] <pitti> hi sivang 
[08:02] <janimo> pitti, morgen
[08:03] <sivang> jo janimo 
[08:03] <janimo> hey sivang
[08:03] <janimo> how's the backup tool going?
[08:05] <sivang> janimo: very good :-) Starting to see the end, I'v overcame all of the process and generator funcions problem, and even made the progress not block and the GUI not block when the underlying processing is heavy. All left now is to add CD burning, and propogate the slice change messages from the BackupEngine.py backend to the PyGTK frontend.
[08:05] <janimo> what will you use for cd burning?
[08:06] <Triskelios> I'm trying to make a breezy-based live cd set netcfg settings based on the ethernet card's mac address; it seems that a preseed/include_command is way too early for this (the drivers haven't been loaded yet). what would be a good solution for this?
[08:07] <sivang> as it seems now I have two options, libnautilus-cd-burn, or cdrecord. What do you think would be best?
[08:08] <janimo> sivang, don;t know honestly
[08:08] <janimo> going via cdrecord will allow you backup to be easier used with kubuntu though
[08:08] <sivang> however, if I use libnautilus-cd-burn, this may incur yet another dependency that other desktops might not want  to ship by default.
[08:08] <sivang> yes, exactly :)
[08:09] <sivang> also, I need to probably think about Xubuntu 
[08:09] <janimo> that is not as far from gnome as kde
[08:09] <janimo> but using nautilus would cause the same effect there
[08:09] <sivang> I see. In any event, I am keeping the backend agnostic of desktop software, so that means that it's going to be cdrecord :-)
[08:10] <janimo> have you looked around to see if there's already cdrecord pythn frontends?
[08:10] <janimo> I remember seeing one that starts with an e but don;t know th erest of the name
[08:10] <sivang> (already went through great deal of trouble to keep it that way, for instance I did not use gobject stuff for process monitoring and io watching in the backend)
[08:11] <sivang> janimo: oo, that would be very useful for me instead of re-inventing the wheel, you say it starts with an e?
[08:11] <janimo> sivang, well python is high level enough to notneed gobject and other libs C apps frequently use
[08:11] <dooglus> http://sourceforge.net/projects/eroaster/ is a graphical frontend for cdrecord, mkisofs written in gnome-python
[08:11] <janimo> sivang, yes
[08:11] <janimo> hmm could be eroaster, but I somehow remembered a more exotic name
[08:12] <sivang> dooglus: Heh, thanks Chris!
[08:12] <dooglus> hi.  sorry I fell asleep on you last night.  I could have helped with your signal problem if I was awake
[08:13] <sivang> dooglus: I'm sure :-) However, in python as in python it usually only means you need to include the right module, so un-surprisingly, it was named "signal" ;-)
[08:13] <sivang> (comes with batteris already included and all that good stuff etc)
[08:15] <dooglus> sivang: you've discovered http://docs.python.org/lib/modindex.html I guess?
[08:16] <sivang> dooglus: yes, I know that location, however I got the bad habit of firing ipython and importing a guessed module name, that's how I experiment with signal last night , need to ditch this :-)
[08:21] <saads> does anyone know what the development status of kraal is?
[08:34] <sivang> oh bad, eroaster is not even oprational :)
[08:34] <sivang> even creating an iso image file doesn't really work 
[08:34] <sivang> no errors messages, no explenation why..
[08:35] <sivang> oh well, "use the source luke" maybe there will be some insighs there to use cdrecord more then I have already thought of.
[10:04] <dholbach> good morning!
[10:09] <sivang> morning :)
[10:10] <janimo> hey dholbach
[10:23] <Mithrandir> dholbach: I've merged your example-content bzr stuff now, going to upload a new casper in a few minutes.
[10:24] <freeflying> Mithrandir: any docs for casper now ?
[10:24] <dholbach> Mithrandir: woohoo - did that really work?
[10:25] <Mithrandir> dholbach: no. :-)  I just move the symlink after adding the user instead.
[10:25] <dholbach> Mithrandir: ah right - cool, thanks!
[10:25] <Mithrandir> freeflying: no, because none of the ten people who have offered to write howtos after I've told them how to customise the image has actually done what they promised they would. :-(
[10:27] <freeflying> Mithrandir: then would you mind tell me how to do like that ?  hmm
[10:42] <Mithrandir> dholbach: uploaded.
[10:42] <Mithrandir> freeflying: not now, sorry.
[10:43] <freeflying> Mithrandir: if it possible , plz mail me ,thx, I'm customising kubuntu dapper livecd for chinese support
[10:44] <Mithrandir> freeflying: email address?
[10:44] <freeflying> Mithrandir: zhengpeng-hou@ubuntu.com
[10:45] <Mithrandir> freeflying: actually, can you send me an email about it (tfheen@ubuntu.com) and I'll get to it.
[10:47] <freeflying> Mithrandir: sent it .
[10:47] <Mithrandir> thanks
[10:51] <mdke> what's this "dapper severely broken for anything by KDE apps" business? works ok here
[10:51] <mdke> must be some kind of plot
[10:52] <Kinnison> must be
[10:52] <mdke> Kinnison, delete it and you can have more space for your *NEW* oddness :)
[10:52] <Kinnison> hehe
[10:54] <Kinnison> Kamion: I have a new upstream of g-p-m which richard strongly recommends I take. I'll do that and then get on with gparted
[10:54] <Kinnison> Kamion: okay?
[11:07] <ploum> http://www.sunsilk.fr/main_product/Home_Range_Eusunsilk/1,,10-1-1,00.html : the first Ubuntu Shampoo
[11:13] <mdke> ploum, damn people love copying that logo
[11:14] <ploum> mdke: so it must be a good one ;-)
[11:14] <mdke> mm
[11:14] <ploum> Do you want Ubuntu hair ?
[11:14] <mdke> sabdfl, morning. ploum just posted this before you came in: http://www.sunsilk.fr/main_product/Home_Range_Eusunsilk/1,,10-1-1,00.html
[11:15] <Treenaks> OMG?
[11:15] <ploum> hello Treenaks :-)
[11:15] <Treenaks> ploum: hi
[11:15] <Treenaks> My 'moviegotchi' videos are quite popular since last week :)
[11:17] <Treenaks> It was on Planeta Ubuntu Brasil and on ubuntu.wordpress.com :)
[11:17] <ploum> Treenaks: a friend found this screenshot on a forum : http://gaspar.celeonet.fr/roidelapluie/lexpage/Screenshot-12.png
[11:17] <Treenaks> ploum: cool
[11:18] <sabdfl> hi all
[11:18] <ploum> hello sabdfl
[11:18] <freeflying> hey sabdfl 
[11:18] <sabdfl> mdke: i'm really struggling with the options there
[11:19] <mdke> sabdfl, red
[11:20] <azeem> what UI exactly is the sprint about?
[11:20] <ploum> shiny blond i a cool option too ;-)
[11:20] <mdke> azeem, the Ubuntu one
[11:21] <azeem> ok
[11:28] <ogra> dholbach, ping ?
[11:30] <dholbach> ogra: pong
[11:30] <ogra> dholbach, no trace of my g-s-s -> eog fullscreen patch ?
[11:31] <dholbach> ogra: hm?
[11:31] <ogra> i thought they included it 
[11:31] <dholbach> ogra: oh, letme check
[11:31] <dholbach> ogra: it's part of it
[11:31] <ogra> bug #5587
[11:31] <Ubugtu> malone bug 5587 in gnome-screensaver "Strange behaviour when Image Viewer is on full screen(F5)" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5587
[11:31] <ogra> ah, k
[11:31] <dholbach> ogra: just didn't show up in the NEWS file, I suppose
[11:31] <ploum> just a question : will gthumb still be the default image viewer in Dapper ?
[11:31] <ogra> then i can close the bug, thats all i needed, thanks 
[11:32] <ploum> sorry, wrong chan ( will ask on #u-desktop)
[11:35] <Treenaks> ogra: totem-gstreamer disables the screensaver nicely here (screensaver 'hack' programs don't start), but the screen still goes blank (DPMS settings?) when watching a movie... is this a known bug?
[11:35] <Treenaks> ogra: or doesn't it disable g-s at all and are my g-s settings bugged?
[11:36] <ogra> Treenaks, oh, no... and thats handled by gnome-power-manager ... i'll have to check where and how we have to fix it ...
[11:36] <ogra> g-s-s does the action, but g-p-m is responsible for the setting
[11:36] <Treenaks> ah
[11:36] <Treenaks> and it's known, so I won't file it then
[11:37] <cjwatson> grr @ home machine choosing this particular time to fall off the network
[11:37] <ogra> Treenaks, nope, its not known ...
[11:37] <ogra> Keybuk, !
[11:37] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:/mnt/devel/bazaar/LtspManager/bzr$ sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp/powerpc
[11:37] <ogra> rm: cannot remove directory `/opt/ltsp/powerpc/var/lock': Device or resource busy
[11:37] <ogra> rm: cannot remove directory `/opt/ltsp/powerpc/var/run': Device or resource busy
[11:38] <ogra> Keybuk, anything i can do to get rid of them to get the directory clean ? 
[11:39] <Keybuk> do you need to unmount them?
[11:39] <StevenK> ogra: They're both tmpfs', umount them?
[11:39] <StevenK> s/'//
[11:39] <ogra> Keybuk, there is no mtab in my chroot ...
[11:39] <ogra> and no mounted /proc ...
[11:39] <Keybuk> ogra: just unmount the directory, mtab is pointless :)
[11:40] <Keybuk> you end up with a mounted /var/lock and /var/run if you debootstrap in a chroot
[11:40] <ogra> yes
[11:40] <Keybuk> umount /opt/ltsp/powerpc/var/lock should just work
[11:41] <ogra> ah, it does ...
[11:41] <ogra> i never tried it outside the chroot :P
[11:41] <Keybuk> I guess you installed that > 2 weeks ago, and haven't rebooted since?
[11:42] <ogra> ah, no, but i'm boostrapping from flight4 
[11:42] <Keybuk> ah :)
[11:42] <ogra> ok, thanks :)+
[11:46] <ploum> Treenaks: does totem-gstreamer work for you ?
[11:47] <ploum> nothing works here
[11:47] <Treenaks> ploum: yeah, it works great
[11:47] <ploum> but only for totem
[11:47] <Treenaks> ploum: you need gstreamer0.10-plugins* and maybe gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg
[11:47] <ploum> since an upgrade, a few days ago, totem is broken
[11:47] <Treenaks> at least, for me
[11:47] <ploum> Treenaks: I have it
[11:47] <Treenaks> hmm
[11:47] <Treenaks> --> seb/dholbach
[11:48] <dholbach> "broken"?
[11:48] <ploum> dholbach: yes. Totem start and doesn't play anything. The screen is black, the slider will not move
[11:49] <ploum> he, I see this error at start (in a cli) :
[11:49] <ploum> OIL: ERROR liboiltest.c 368: oil_test_check_impl(): function fbCompositeSolid_nx8888mmx in class composite_over_argb_const_src failed check (1,67772e+07 > 100) outside=0
[11:49] <Treenaks> ploum: ah, that's why it works for me: I use it on powerpc -- which has no mmx
[11:50] <ploum> (I don(t use Xgl, I swear ;-) )
[11:50] <dholbach> ploum: you have the newest version of liboil?
[11:51] <dholbach> ploum: i'm quite sure i fixed that bug in liboil
[11:51] <ploum> dholbach: I look... no
[11:51] <crimsun> ploum: test case online?
[11:51] <ploum> indeed
[11:52] <cjwatson> Kinnison: paste me that stuff about the g-p-m update again?
[11:53] <ploum> dholbach: fixed, sorry for the noise !
[11:53] <ploum> Thank you
[11:53] <dholbach> ploum: cool
[11:55] <pitti> hi slomo
[11:55] <slomo> hi pitti 
[11:59] <Kinnison> cjwatson: sorry, 'net connection went phut
[12:06] <cjwatson> Kinnison: likewise ... try /msg maybe
[12:09] <Kinnison> cjwatson: Basically it's 2.13.93 of gnome-power-manager
[12:10] <Kinnison> cjwatson: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gnome-power-manager/2.13/gnome-power-manager-2.13.93.news
[12:13] <cjwatson> Kinnison: OK
[12:13] <Kinnison> cjwatson: thanks
[12:13] <Kinnison> cjwatson: did the archive cycle okay?
[12:15] <cjwatson> Kinnison: on Saturday? yeah, worked great
[12:15] <Kinnison> I meant just now
[12:16] <Kinnison> Looks like the log was fine
[12:16] <Kinnison> (new DB server)
[12:16] <Kinnison> my 'net went phut just before the cycle
[12:19] <cjwatson> Kinnison: oh, haven't been looking, I'm at the UI sprint
[12:19] <Kinnison> :-)
[12:42] <sivang> cjwatson: new nick? :)
[12:45] <ploum> Ubuntu "Shampoo Snake" release. That's a cool name
[12:46] <cjwatson> sivang: home box randomly off the network, I'm elsewhere
[12:51] <irvin> ploum, you there?
[12:51] <ploum> irvin: yep
[01:25] <mdke> I remember in this release cycle, there was no backports repository until Dapper opened, which meant that people activating backports earlier (but after Breezy was stable) received errors. Is the same thing going to happen again when Dapper goes stable? Or is an empty repository going to be set up? Either way I'd like to know so we can document it.
[01:28] <infinity> Kinnison: Hrm, that new g-p-m doesn't seem to fix my bug (at least, not according to upstream's changelog)
[01:28] <infinity> Kinnison: Any hopes of reverting it for Ubuntu only, while you argue with upstream?
[01:28] <Kinnison> infinity: upstream are still pondering
[01:28] <Kinnison> infinity: I can look into reverting it for now
[01:29] <Kinnison> cjwatson: I have had a look at gparted 0.2.2 -- lots of fixes which might interest us -- the installer-mode patch stands almost no chance of applying straight-off
[01:29] <Kinnison> cjwatson: I think four of about twenty hunks apply
[01:29] <infinity> Kinnison: Pretty please? :)
[01:29] <dholbach> Kinnison: that's what i saw too :/
[01:30] <Kinnison> cjwatson: I'll get the outward functionality into 0.1 and then look at porting the patch to 0.2.2
[01:30] <Kinnison> cjwatson: so that I'm not blocking the installer
[01:30] <Kinnison> cjwatson: sound okay?
[01:32] <cjwatson> Kinnison: sounds fine - as long as it keeps working for us in dapper
[01:32] <Kinnison> cjwatson: cool. Hopefully I'll have this package for g-p-m finished soon, currently a bit blocked on my laptop's hard drive having some spare IO bandwidth :-)
[01:33] <mdke> anyone on my backports question?
[01:33] <cjwatson> mdke: /dists/dapper-backports/ already exists ...
[01:33] <mdke> cjwatson, well that solves my problem entirely, thanks
[01:37] <mvo> Kinnison: do you got a bugreport already about g-p-m going to suspend when the power is unplugged?
[01:37] <Kinnison> mvo: is your lid closed?
[01:38] <mvo> Kinnison: no, I just unplugged the power from the laptop
[01:38] <mjg59> Kinnison: I've actually seen that (open lid)
[01:38] <mjg59> Only once, though
[01:39] <mvo> it seems to be happening all the time here
[01:39] <mjg59> Ah. I closed, unplugged, plugged back in, opened, unplugged
[01:39] <Kinnison> there was a bug in one version where it wouldn't notice a lid opening
[01:39] <mjg59> And then it suspended
[01:39] <Kinnison> that should have been fixed last upload
[01:39] <mvo> lid is open, I work on it. then I want to move a couple of meters to show what I do to someone else and unplug it to move it
[01:40] <mvo> it goes to sleep then
[01:41] <Kinnison> sounds like it's confused about lid state
[01:41] <Kinnison> are you running 2.13.92+CVS.... ?
[01:42] <mvo> 2.13.92+CVS20060302-0ubuntu1
[01:43] <Kinnison> arse, shouldn't happen
[01:43] <mvo> my seting is to go to suspend when the lid is closed
[01:43] <Kinnison> I have a new version currently undergoing testing
[01:43] <Kinnison> temporary fix is to change that to "nothing" or similar
[01:43] <mvo> right
[01:44] <mvo> I'm happy to test a new version
[01:45] <Kinnison> once I have it building I'll let you know :-)
[01:49] <mvo> .9
[01:49] <mvo> :)
[02:09] <mojo_1> i am trying to work out here why turning on GOOM Visual will render playing MP3 not work. Maybe some1 here has know issues can give me some technical discussion or advice?
[02:19] <zul> heylo
[02:20] <doko> cjwatson, elmo: please remove the following sources from dapper: openoffice.org2-helpcontent openoffice.org2-amd64 openoffice.org2-l10n openoffice.org2 openoffice.org-debian-files
[02:33] <cjwatson> doko: can't, see https://launchpad.net/products/soyuz/+bug/32314
[02:33] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32314 in soyuz "remove-package.py pretends to work and then does nothing" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[02:35] <seb128> doko: FC has the "orientation" option for openoffice printing
[02:37] <Mithrandir> Diziet: why doesn't firefox handle button 8 and 9 as forward/back any more?
[02:39] <doko> seb128: ok, I'll enable it for the next upload ...
[02:41] <seb128> thank you
[02:41] <doko> seb128: but please check that it works!
[02:42] <seb128> I'll do after UI sprint
[02:44] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: readahead is still making the live CD take eons to boot
[02:44] <cjwatson> in vmware
[02:44] <cjwatson> can we disable that?
[02:44] <cjwatson> or does it work on normal hardware?
[02:44] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I can test on this system in a bit.
[02:44] <cjwatson> ta
[02:44] <Mithrandir> but yeah, I think we should have a disable-readahead option
[02:45] <Mithrandir> speaking of which, why do we care to sort the blocks?  The I/O scheduler should be able to do that by itself?
[02:46] <cjwatson> no idea :)
[02:46] <janimo> cjwatson, is libswitch and gnetswitch in NEW source?
[02:47] <janimo> or very similarly named packages anyway
[02:47] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: prod?
[02:47] <cjwatson> janimo: yeah, I had some concerns about at least one of those and sent mail to the uploader
[02:47] <janimo> cjwatson: thanks, what about evince-gtk?
[02:48] <janimo> cjwatson: who uploaded netswitch btw?
[02:49] <freeflying> cjwatson: how about the scim-pinyin stuff
[02:50] <cjwatson> janimo: all still there, I'm busy today, dunno
[02:50] <janimo> cjwatson: no hurry then
[02:51] <cjwatson> freeflying: you got an approval, and I don't see anything in NEW - what about it?
[02:51] <Kinnison> cjwatson: moving onto gparted now
[02:52] <freeflying> cjwatson: I've corrected the issue you point out , and reupload it to REVU
[02:52] <cjwatson> freeflying: REVU and universe are not my responsibility unless they happen to land in NEW
[02:53] <freeflying> cjwatson: sorry, then what shall I do ?
[02:53] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I'm rewriting the kbd-chooser widget to use kbd-chooser instead of console-data again.  Less hassle.
[02:53] <cjwatson> freeflying: ask #ubuntu-motu
[02:53] <janimo> freeflying: can you upload to universe?
[02:53] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: jfyi
[02:53] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: ok
[02:53] <freeflying> janimo: can not
[02:54] <janimo> freeflying: and you are trying to get a NEW package into universe or main?
[02:54] <freeflying> janimo: not a NEW
[02:54] <janimo> freeflying: so you just need a motu to sponsor you upload right?
[02:55] <freeflying> jamesh: an UVF
[02:55] <cjwatson> freeflying did try to upload something himself but it was rejected
[02:55] <janimo> you need to mail the motu list with req for exception as is done for the rest of packages
[02:56] <cjwatson> I've given the exception already, since it's targeted at main
[02:56] <cjwatson> or at least will eventually be moved to main
[02:56] <cjwatson> although it's in universe right now
[02:56] <freeflying> cjwatson: that's a wrong upload , I forget add revu 
[02:56] <cjwatson> he needs a review and sponsorship
[02:56] <janimo> freeflying: point me to the package on revu 
[02:57] <freeflying> jamesh: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2102
[02:57] <janimo> and indeed ubuntu-motu is the place to request reviewers/sponsors
[02:58] <ogra> doko, dod you request the syncs for python2.4-pullparser and python2.4-clientform as well ? zope3 is still not installable and i see no trace of these two
[02:58] <joelbryan> Isn't X-Chat duplicated with GAIM IRC?
[02:59] <Robot101> except that gaim makes a horrific IRC client
[02:59] <mdke> joelbryan, no, xchat doesn't come with Ubuntu by default now
[02:59] <joelbryan> I'm using GAIM IRC right now, and it looks great.
[02:59] <mdke> joelbryan, but otherwise, both programs do IRC. But in the open source world, it is common to have lots of programs that do the same thing
[02:59] <joelbryan> I'm pertaining to x-chat-gnome
[03:00] <mdke> for example, firefox, epiphany, etc all do web browsing
[03:00] <mdke> joelbryan, xchat-gnome doesn't come with Ubuntu by default now either
[03:00] <joelbryan> yeah, but it's in the scope regarding duplication
[03:00] <joelbryan> mdke: thanks for telling me
[03:00] <mdke> np
[03:01] <joelbryan> mdke: in flight-cd 4, x-chat gnome comes default, you mean, the main release will not include it?
[03:01] <Mithrandir> joelbryan: that has been changed already.
[03:02] <cjwatson> joelbryan: changed since Flight CD 4, although up for debate
[03:02] <cjwatson> because now irc:// URLs don't work
[03:02] <ogra> yeah
[03:02] <mdke> can't GAIM handle them?
[03:02] <cjwatson> maybe it can, but it doesn't at the moment :-)
[03:02] <mdke> right
[03:02] <joelbryan> I think gaim irc looks great
[03:03] <mdke> let's hope it can do those urls
[03:04] <joelbryan> not for spamming you with gaim, but IMO, it's nice, well I like x-chat gnome too, coz it's simple.
[03:05] <doko_> seb128: re-reading http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=14036, why do you want to have it enabled?
[03:05] <linuxdev> hi all, is there a html render library in linux??
[03:06] <ogra> doko_, did you see my message above ? 
[03:06] <seb128> doko_: that bug is marked as winXP, it's not clear it happens under linux to me
[03:06] <jdub> linuxdev: you could use firefox/mozilla's engine, but it can be tough to use :)
[03:06] <seb128> doko_: and FC activate the option, that's probably for a reason
[03:06] <joelbryan> linuxdev: gtkmozembed, gtkhtml3
[03:07] <doko_> ogra: ?
[03:07] <joelbryan> my firefox keeps crashing when I visit flash sites.
[03:07] <ogra> doko_, dod you request the syncs for python2.4-pullparser and python2.4-clientform as well ? zope3 is still not installable and i see no trace of these two
[03:08] <doko_> hmm, ok, I will "sync" them myself
[03:08] <ogra> :)
[03:08] <Treenaks> Keybuk: ping?
[03:09] <joelbryan> are the metacity deb packages (2.13.144) are maintainer builds?
[03:10] <seb128> no, they are buildd builds, like every other package
[03:10] <seb128> we do sources uploads for Ubuntu
[03:11] <joelbryan> I have tried to enable startup notification, session management and hmmp (composite extension)
[03:11] <seb128> startup notification?
[03:11] <seb128> what do you mean?
[03:11] <joelbryan> startup notification looks cool
[03:12] <seb128> what does it do?
[03:12] <zul> anyone seen jbailey around?
[03:12] <janimo> seb128, the turning mouse cursor while loading the app I assume
[03:12] <joelbryan> it's when you drag an icon, you can see the icon while dragging, check out.  http://www.gnome.org/~clarkbw/blog/GNOME/fun_startup_stuff
[03:12] <linuxdev> jdub, joelbryan: is it possible to have a html render without the support of Xwindows???
[03:12] <janimo> libstartup-notification
[03:12] <seb128> janimo: it's already doing that, no?
[03:13] <joelbryan> linuxdev: framebuffer? I don't know... :-(
[03:13] <janimo> seb128, I did not catch the beginning of the discussion, he said he enabled that on some package
[03:13] <janimo> Iassumed he links to that libs whereas it did not before
[03:13] <seb128> janimo: he said he built the package with that
[03:13] <seb128> no
[03:13] <janimo> what package?
[03:14] <joelbryan> yes, I'm trying to include (hmmp!!) compositor
[03:14] <Lathiat> kde does something like that when it adds applets to the panel
[03:14] <linuxdev> joelbryan: I don't know how to make use of framebuffer .....
[03:14] <Lathiat> it animates into the panel
[03:14] <janimo> joelbryan: is that a new package?
[03:14] <joelbryan> I get it using apt-get source
[03:15] <seb128> change debian/rules for it
[03:15] <joelbryan> I installed alot of libs, libcm7 libcm-dev libxrender-dev libxdamage-dev libxcursor-dev xfixes-dev libstartup-notification0-dev xcomposite-dev libxtst-dev mesa-common-dev libgl1-mesa-dev libglu1-mesa-dev libglitz1-dev libglitz-glx1-dev
[03:15] <seb128> that's a build option
[03:15] <janimo> joelbryan: what's the package name?
[03:15] <joelbryan> yes
[03:15] <joelbryan> metacity 2.13.144
[03:15] <joelbryan> sudo apt-get source metacity
[03:16] <janimo> joelbryan: in that case seb is right you already have startup notification in
[03:16] <joelbryan> this will include startup-notification, session management in metacity -- configure --enable-maintainer-mode --enable-compile-warnings --prefix=/usr
[03:17] <seb128> that will not activate any fancy option no
[03:17] <joelbryan> I can't build the compositor, tried fixing it.
[03:18] <doko_> huh? pydev upload? who is Vladimir Lapacek?
[03:18] <joelbryan> use --enable-compositor to compile metacity with compositor
[03:18] <doko_> dholbach: ^^^ ?
[03:18] <dholbach> doko_: no idea
[03:19] <dholbach> doko_: I have no idea what you are talking about
[03:19] <torkel> joelbryan: check out spiftacity
[03:19] <Treenaks> Keybuk: (does the initramfs honor the )
[03:19] <ogra> dholbach, http://tiber.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1770
[03:19] <ogra> doko_, ^^^
[03:20] <Treenaks> Keybuk: (does the initramfs honor the md= command line arguments, like md would if it wasn't built as a module?)
[03:21] <dholbach> ogra: it's not approved by anyone
[03:21] <dholbach> ogra, doko_: what's the problem atm?
[03:21] <ogra> dholbach, Betreff: 	Accepted pydev 0.9.8.3-1 (source)
[03:21] <ogra> Datum: 	Mon, 06 Mar 2006 12:43:44 -0000  (13:43 CET)
[03:21] <ogra> see -changes
[03:21] <joelbryan> torkel: is spiftacity also metacity?
[03:21] <ogra> dholbach, someone uploaded it
[03:21] <janimo> freeflying: the package looks nice, I'd vote for it but looks I cannot do that on revu
[03:22] <dholbach> ogra: who signed the mail?
[03:22] <freeflying> jamesh: thx
[03:22] <torkel> joelbryan: http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/x11/spiftacity
[03:22] <janimo> for getting rid of that last lintian warning look at dh_makeshlibdeps -X
[03:22] <joelbryan> cool, it's a devel version of metacity.
[03:22] <ogra> dholbach,  Vladimir Lapacek <vladimir.lapacek@gmail.com>
[03:22] <dholbach> ogra: signed it?
[03:23] <janimo> also if you do not dislike it try cdbs it would make you rules file a lot smaller, you do not seem to use anything fancy
[03:23] <ogra> dholbach, i cant see any other signatures on -changes
[03:23] <doko_> dholbach, ogra: forget it ... ./org.python.pydev/retroweaver-rt.jar  <-- ships binaries = jars, doesn't build from source ...
[03:23] <ogra> ah, k
[03:23] <Robot101> argggh
[03:23] <dholbach> doko_: I still have no idea what the problem is and what I can/should do about it
[03:23] <Robot101> is there any chance of newer fixed dbus in dapper?
[03:24] <Robot101> 0.60 has gaping holes in the glib bindings and deadlocks and stuff
[03:24] <doko_> dholbach: Mr, MOTUmaster, I just wanted to have an idea who did approve that thing
[03:24] <ogra> dholbach, i guess doko_ just wanted to ask why MOTU uploaded it ..
[03:24] <dholbach> right
[03:24] <dholbach> well... sorry: no idea
[03:25] <joelbryan> torkel: how do I use composite? shall I restart my x session?
[03:25] <ogra> hey mdz_ 
[03:25] <ogra> welcome in europe again :)
[03:25] <Robot101> sjoerd: who's in charge of dapper's d-bus?
[03:25] <sivang> pitti I think
[03:25] <sjoerd> Robot101: dunno 
[03:25] <sivang> torkel: is spiftacity has anything to do with aiglx ?
[03:25] <Mithrandir> joelbryan: please, this channel is for discussion of Ubuntu development, not user questions.  Please ask in #ubuntu.
[03:26] <pitti> Robot101: I'm the person who is closest to the idea of 'dbus maintainer', I think
[03:26] <torkel> sivang: no idea
[03:26] <joelbryan> Mithrandir: I'm refering to metacity composite
[03:26] <Robot101> pitti: what's the current status wrt patches or new upstream versions?
[03:27] <Mithrandir> joelbryan: yes, and you're getting offtopic for this channel.
[03:27] <pitti> Robot101: we won't upgrade to 0.61 any more, but we happily accept and apply bug fixes
[03:27] <Robot101> pitti: some nice stuff like crashing on sending/receiving empty arrays, 25-second deadlocks when making concurrent method calls (try hal-device-manager for fun)...
[03:27] <pitti> Robot101: I already fixed the 25-second timeout
[03:27] <pitti> Robot101: the crash fix sounds interesting
[03:28] <Robot101> there are about three... :P
[03:28] <pitti> Robot101: I'm hesitant to upgrade to 0.61, I already have more than enough to do to fix hal 0.5.7 regressions...
[03:28] <Robot101> there are no regressions I'm aware of
[03:28] <pitti> Robot101: I would hug you for webcvs links, otherwise I'll peel them out myself
[03:28] <sivang> ogra: are you also in the GUI sprint?
[03:29] <ogra> nope
[03:29] <Robot101> pitti: Nokia had a delta of 20 patches which they reduced to about 4 by upgrading to 0.61
[03:29] <Robot101> pitti: it would take me a few hours to sift them all out for you
[03:29] <pitti> Robot101: are there any new features in 0.61?
[03:29] <pitti> or API breakages, and the like?
[03:31] <Robot101> pitti: there are API additions, and only one subtle API breakage I'm aware of in the glib bindings (I've only heard about 1 thing being effected, gnome-power-manager I think?)
[03:32] <pitti> well, additions don't hurt
[03:32] <sjoerd> gnome-power-manager was affected and fixed in the latest release (will need a recompile though)
[03:32] <Lathiat> Kamion: hrm just installed with the latest kubuntu daily installer (i386) and it asked me the time question again, despite having windows installed
[03:32] <Robot101> sjoerd: rock
[03:32] <Kinnison> that version is in dapper
[03:32] <joelbryan> will sabayon and pessulus be included in dapper?
[03:32] <Kinnison> so recompiling it will be easy
[03:33] <ogra> sabayon is in since breezy
[03:34] <mdke> pessulus is in too
[03:34] <mdke> joelbryan, have a look at http://packages.ubuntu.com
[03:34] <joelbryan> how about gnome-backgrounds?
[03:35] <ogra> unlikely that this fits on the CD
[03:35] <mdke> joelbryan, use the website, rather than the irc channel
[03:36] <Robot101> pitti: 0.62 will include the 25-sec fix upstream, and a few more marshallers in glib which I'd like to see around. also massively fixed qt bindings...
[03:36] <Robot101> pitti: should I ping you again when 0.62 is out? should be within a week or so
[03:37] <pitti> Robot101: would certainly be interesting (0.61, too), but I'm just very afraid of regressions when we upgrade to even 0.61
[03:37] <pitti> I'm not aware of any major dbus breakage in our current packages
[03:38] <sivang> Robot101: 25-sec fix for fixing the terrible delay when querying hal devices through the bus for example?
[03:38] <pitti> sivang: <pitti> Robot101: I already fixed the 25-second timeout
[03:38] <sivang> pitti: ah, I see. then I guess it's something within my code :-/
[03:38] <pitti> sivang: that just affected hal-device-manager, not other clients
[03:39] <sivang> pitti: k, thx
[03:39] <Robot101> pitti: hm, did you apply J5's recent fix for that?
[03:40] <pitti> hm, probably not, I just pulled his original cvs commit
[03:41] <joelbryan> dbus testing framework just released.
[03:45] <joelbryan> and hannah wallach looks gorgeous!
[03:48] <Keybuk> Treenaks: no idea, I've never particularly touched the md or lvm stuff
[03:50] <Treenaks> Keybuk: hm.. ok..
[03:51] <Treenaks> Keybuk: I've followed the shellscripts (mdrun in particular) and it seems to create /dev/md[x]  devices based on disk order -- or are they auto-created as the dm-* modules are loaded?
[03:51] <Treenaks> (udev stuff)
[03:51] <Keybuk> no idea
[03:51] <lemsx1> hello all, does anybody knows why the default path for the dhclient leases file is NOT in /var/lib but in /var/run ??
[03:51] <Keybuk> I don't even think I'm sure what md is *for*
[03:51] <Keybuk> let alone lvm
[03:52] <hunger> Keybuk: md is for software raid and lvm is the best thing since sliced bread.
[03:52] <hunger> lemsx1: I can guess.
[03:53] <lemsx1> hunger: because the debian package was originally done like that? 
[03:53] <lemsx1> hunger: that path should be changed in Ubuntu. it doesn't make sense because /var/run gets cleaned on every boot
[03:54] <hunger> lemsx1: Report it as a bug.
[03:54] <lemsx1> hunger: that was my next step ;-)
[03:54] <Keybuk> lemsx1: it's a very very very trivial bug
[03:54] <Keybuk> given that everything that calls dhclient changes the leases file path anyway
[03:55] <Treenaks> Keybuk: I'll just try it in an hour.. if the machine doesn't boot, I'll blame keybuk and file kilotons of bugs
[03:55] <Treenaks> s/keybuk/you/ :P
[03:55] <lemsx1> well, there is a bug reported for it
[03:55] <Keybuk> Treenaks: nothing to do with me
[03:56] <lemsx1>  Bug #24292
[03:56] <Ubugtu> malone bug 24292 in ifupdown "dhcp3 server "forgets" leases (new lease at each reboot)" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/24292
[03:56] <lemsx1> Keybuk: very trivial indeed
[03:56] <Treenaks> Keybuk: Well, /dev/md0 and /dev/md1 swapped on hoary->breezy; I hope they didn't swap again on breezy -> dapper, that's all :)
[03:56] <Keybuk> Treenaks: like I said, I know nothing about md
[03:57] <Keybuk> I've no idea what those devices are for
[03:57] <Keybuk> if you know about it and use it, perhaps you could investigate for us?
[03:57] <Treenaks> Keybuk: /dev/md1 (my root device) is software-RAID
[03:57] <Keybuk> that doesn't tell me anything, I'm afraid
[03:57] <Treenaks> Keybuk: so if it doesn't boot, I'll file bugs on the parts that don't work, after I boot my machine again :)
[03:58] <Keybuk> I'm not able to triage, or even think about fixing those bugs though
[03:58] <Keybuk> I don't even know what creates those devices, I assume mdadm or something
[04:25] <zAo^> more people getting segmetation fault in FF?
[04:26] <mdke> zAo^, best to check the bug tracker
[04:28] <zAo^> cant find the right one though
[04:30] <zAo^> seems a flash problem: not supported :(
[04:31] <mdke> no, but flash is important enough that someone would probably investigate the problem before dapper is released
[04:32] <zAo^> what player do you use? flashplayer-mozilla?
[04:32] <kent> zAo^:   which one do you use? I can test it with my firefox+flash.  
[04:33] <zAo^> well, go random banners @ http://gathering.tweakers.net > "random" seg faults
[04:36] <kent> zAo^:   That page worked for me..  I have refreshed a few times. I use dapper  with firefox and flashplugin-nonfree flashplayer-mozilla  installed. 
[04:36] <zAo^> ok, thanks. Will try the non-free
[04:36] <ploum> Does someone know the birthday date of jdub ?  A friend is creating his fr.wikipedia entry
[04:37] <Treenaks> ploum: look on en.wikipedia? :)
[04:37] <mdke> 1957
[04:37] <ploum> Treenaks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Waugh ! Shame ! Shame !
[04:39] <ploum> mdke: I suppose he's born on the planet Mars or something like that ?
[04:40] <ploum> (1957, it's a good year ! It's sputnik date !)
[04:40] <doko> infinity: you're right, the breezy ia32-libs-gtk has a typo in the postrm ...
[04:44] <Treenaks> Keybuk: it worked, I worry too much :)
[04:46] <infinity> doko: So the diversion is obsolete?
[04:46] <infinity> doko: If so, we still have a problem, cause when I un-divert the binaries, I get a segv on startup.
[04:46] <ogra> Keybuk, infinity, could one of you have a look at #33732 ?
[04:46] <infinity> doko: (No, I didn't have a chance to hunt and backtrace the segv, it's nearly 3am)
[04:48] <infinity> ogra: I agree with the bug, that postinst should do some more anal "test if the link is in an old location, if so, update it" ... That's how I always do init script migration.
[04:48] <infinity> ogra: Feel free to quote me.
[04:49] <infinity> ogra: Assign the bug to Keybuk, though.  It's his.
[04:49] <ogra> infinity, oki
[04:49] <Keybuk> I'll reject the bug though
[04:49] <Keybuk> because we had too many bugs filed because of people's silly custom changes to rcS
[04:49] <Keybuk> and things ended up in the wrong order
[04:50] <Keybuk> the only sane thing to do was to force the issue
[04:50] <ogra> will you revert it in later versions of the package? 
[04:51] <ogra> it kills my fast ltsp boot due to useless scripts like mountnfs chkfs or chkroot
[04:51] <infinity> Keybuk: People's "silly custom changes to rcS" have to be respected, even if they are silly.  If they broke their boot, that's their problem.
[04:52] <Keybuk> ogra: tbh, that's the way initscripts does it in Debian too
[04:54] <ogra> Keybuk, then the manpage of update-rc.d is utterly wrong
[04:54] <ogra> it even gives an example how to reliably disable a system service
[04:55] <Keybuk> *shrug*
[04:55] <Keybuk> I so don't care :)
[04:55] <doko> infinity: quick check please: ldd /usr/lib/openoffice/program/* 2>&1 | egrep '^/|found' |less
[04:55] <ogra> Keybuk, but i do ... and users willl as well...
[04:55] <doko> and see, if any libraries are not found
[04:55] <infinity> doko: Making is booted into WinXP right now, no can do.
[04:56] <infinity> doko: Followup to the bug with that request, and I can look at it in the morning, if someone else doesn't beat me to it.
[04:56] <ogra> also i dont see why we should repeat mistakes debian does if we can avoid them 
[04:56] <infinity> doko: I can also dump a core and backtrace it tomorrow for you.
[04:57] <pitti> Kamion: can you please demote gnutls11 to universe? AFAICS the transition should be complete now
[04:57] <dholbach> pitti: woohoo
[04:59] <desrt> pitti; does this mean you're wearing a suit?
[04:59] <pitti> desrt: occasionally :)
[04:59] <desrt> pitti; very dapper of you.
[04:59] <pitti> desrt: only when I finished a spec
[04:59] <desrt> :)
[04:59] <infinity> pitti: Can I hear a "woohoo"?
[04:59] <desrt> that's a time for a suit -and- champaigne, i suppose
[04:59] <pitti> infinity: WOOHOOOOOO!
[05:00] <infinity> pitti: Was that the last thing on our ReducingDuplicatoin hitlist for dapper?
[05:00] <infinity> (I hope to refill that list for dapper+1 and be even more anal about it)
[05:00] <pitti> infinity: I think so, the rest is out of range, and also not that important (libsqlite etc.)
[05:00] <infinity> pitti: Oh, wait, we still have gd1, don't we?
[05:00] <desrt> infinity; we need to reduce the number of germans to 1
[05:00] <desrt> pitti; tough luck, buddy.
[05:01] <infinity> pitti: I'd like to see that last gd1 rdep head to universe, if you can clear unseeding it with mdz.
[05:01] <infinity> pitti: libgd1 is very old, very unmaintained, and very unsupportable.
[05:02] <pitti> ok, grep-dctrl shows no rdeps but *-desktop
[05:02] <pitti> should be easy to drop then
[05:03] <pitti> infinity: I'll reorder the wiki items to group the fixed and outstanding things together; should be easier that way
[05:08] <pitti> infinity: page updated
[05:17] <doko> mvo: any hint for #33533 ?
[05:26] <pitti> hi mdz_ 
[05:27] <AlinuxOS> pitti, hello :)
[05:27] <pitti> Hi AlinuxOS 
[05:27] <mdke> hi mdz_: i was wondering if you have any news on how the flash thing is going? is any more work needed on the wiki page?
[05:28] <AlinuxOS> mdz, I saw your funny video in my dapper's fresh test install :)
[05:29] <AlinuxOS> windows xp style, template directory :) with samples :)
[05:29] <AlinuxOS> there is an ogg video :D
[05:30] <AlinuxOS> pitti, I still can't find any fontconfig maestro
[05:30] <AlinuxOS> keithp don't responds me...
[05:30] <AlinuxOS> via mail or IRC ..
[05:30] <AlinuxOS> :(
[05:45] <mjg59> infinity: So there's hardware out there that can be driven by Madwifi NG, but not by Madwifi
[05:45] <mjg59> infinity: But I don't think we can tell from PCI IDs alone
[05:47] <Mithrandir> hmm, my cupsd seems to eat 100% cpu
[05:50] <pitti> Riddell: ping
[05:56] <AlinuxOS> pitti, maybe I can modify mjg59 .deb file and create georgian optimal fonts.dir fonts.scale?
[05:56] <pitti> these two files are alright
[05:57] <pitti> AlinuxOS: /etc/fonts/fonts.conf needs to be adapted
[05:57] <AlinuxOS> ah
[05:58] <AlinuxOS> ok if I modify fonts.conf in a better way
[05:58] <AlinuxOS> and after test everything works
[05:58] <AlinuxOS> what must I do then ?
[05:58] <AlinuxOS> communicate to mdz ? or mjg59 ?
[05:59] <AlinuxOS> or keithp (who don't respond, via mail or IRC )
[05:59] <AlinuxOS> ?
[05:59] <mjg59> AlinuxOS: Let me know
[05:59] <AlinuxOS> mjg59,  ok :)
[06:00] <mjg59> infinity: Actually, there's three devices supported by madwifi-ng that aren't supported by madwifi. Can we package it just for those (and cut out the other PCI IDs from it)?
[06:00] <mjg59> Needed for new Thinkpads and Macbooks
[06:08] <AlinuxOS> http://alinuxos.no-ip.org/fonts.conf mjg59 , sorry bro, but this files header comment tells that I don't modify this... and it's only updated when fontconfig is updated
[06:11] <mjg59> AlinuxOS: That's fine. If you can find settings that work, we can deal with that.
[06:11] <AlinuxOS> mjg59, ok thank you a lot.
[06:17] <AlinuxOS> mjg59, there is a line like:  LOCAL CHANGES BELONG IN 'local.conf'.
[06:17] <AlinuxOS> it tells that I must modify mu local.conf
[06:17] <AlinuxOS> or don't mind ? :)
[06:19] <mdz_> mdke: it's going slowly; the first iteration can't be played with swfdec
[06:20] <mdz-sprint> Kamion: if I get disconnected shortly, what you want is gdm-signal --reboot
[06:21] <mdz-sprint> Kamion: looks like what you do is gdm-signal --reboot, then the session leader needs to exit
[06:22] <mdke> mdz-sprint, alrighty. Give me a bell if you need anything done on the wiki page or anything else I can help with. It occurred to me that if it works, we might be able to use it as About-Ubuntu, as well as on espresso
[06:24] <mdke> i guess that might be a fairly weighty "if" though
[06:31] <Riddell> pitti: hi
[06:31] <slomo> lamont: thanks for fixing glib on ia64
[06:32] <lamont> slomo: "fix" is a rather generous term for what I did to ist...
[06:32] <lamont> it, even
[06:32] <seb128> doko broke gtk
[06:32] <seb128> and now lamont breaks glib?
[06:32] <seb128> bah :p
[06:32] <ogra> fun :)
[06:32] <lamont> seb128: I just turned off assembly atomic ops on ia64
[06:32] <seb128> why?
[06:32] <lamont> ftbfs
[06:33] <seb128> I pointed you the patch doing the FTBFS  like 2 months ago
[06:33] <seb128> that was a change from Suse
[06:33] <seb128> I would rather have a comment on it than a hack like that ...
[06:33] <lamont> sigh... I don't remember seeing that... you still have it?
[06:35] <lamont> amusingly, including <ia64intrin.h> might get it there too - the builtins exist, but there are _si and _di versions, but not the neutral one
[06:35] <jono> jdub, ping
[06:36] <mdke> jono, i think he is asleep
[06:36] <jono> sleep is for the weak
[06:36] <jono> jdub is clearly letting the side down :P
[06:36] <jono> :P
[06:36] <mdke> harsh
[06:37] <jono> possibly
[06:37] <jono> :P
[06:37] <jono> has anyone here go the mighty power of fridge editorial permissions?
[06:37] <mdke> jono, whiprush is the other chap who does.
[06:38] <mdke> jono, but you can email fridge-devel@lists.u.c
[06:38] <jono> whiprush, ahhh, I thought your nick was jorge :P
[06:38] <jono> I mailed fridge-devel but its not been picked up and its quite urgent
[06:38] <jono> I need the official book contributions deadline extending
[06:40] <mdke> jono, just amend it on the wiki page, someone will get to the fridge email eventually, I'm sure
[06:41] <seb128> lamont: sorry, speaking with some other people (UI sprint)
[06:42] <seb128> lamont: if you have the build error it would make easier to search bugzilla for the change :p
[06:42] <lamont> .libs/gatomic.o: In function `IA__g_atomic_int_exchange_and_add':/home/lamont/dapper/glib2.0-2.10.0/build-tree/glib-2.10.0-deb/glib/gatomic.c:417: undefined reference to `__sync_fetch_and_add'
[06:42] <lamont> .libs/gatomic.o: In function `IA__g_atomic_int_add':/home/lamont/dapper/glib2.0-2.10.0/build-tree/glib-2.10.0-deb/glib/gatomic.c:424: undefined reference to `__sync_fetch_and_add'
[06:42] <lamont> .libs/gatomic.o: In function `IA__g_atomic_int_compare_and_exchange':/home/lamont/dapper/glib2.0-2.10.0/build-tree/glib-2.10.0-deb/glib/gatomic.c:432: undefined reference to `__sync_bool_compare_and_swap'
[06:42] <lamont> .libs/gatomic.o: In function `IA__g_atomic_pointer_compare_and_exchange':/home/lamont/dapper/glib2.0-2.10.0/build-tree/glib-2.10.0-deb/glib/gatomic.c:440: undefined reference to `__sync_bool_compare_and_swap'
[06:42] <lamont> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
[06:45] <lamont> no glib2.0 bugs in bz... off to malone
[06:46] <lamont> seb128: nothing jumps out at me from malone either
[06:46] <seb128> lamont: I was thinking to a bugzilla.gnome bug but I'm not sure that's that one
[06:46] <seb128> I pointed it to you on that chan when you pinged me with the build issue
[06:48] <lamont> seb128: any chance that was infinity that pinged you?
[06:48] <seb128> no, I'm pretty sure it was you
[06:48] <seb128> but it was some months ago
[06:54] <desrt> seb128; do you grant wishes? :)
[06:54] <tepsipakki> pitti: what's the idea behind ~/.sudo_as_admin_successful ?-)
[06:56] <seb128> lamont: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=321229
[06:56] <Ubugtu> gnome2 bug 321229 in general "fixes for GCC4.1 warnings" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  
[06:57] <seb128> desrt: what? 
[06:57] <jono> later all
[06:57] <desrt> seb128; i'm not sure i've decided yet.. if i only get one wish i want to make sure it's a good one :)
[06:58] <desrt> seb128; in any case it would be along the lines of 'secret gconf key with no UI visibility triggers strange behaviour' type stuff :)
[06:58] <desrt> seb128; and i'd provide the patch, of course :)
[06:58] <pitti> tepsipakki: to suppress the help text after successfully executing sudo the first time
[06:59] <pitti> Riddell: do you plan an upload of qt-x11-free in the near future?
[06:59] <pitti> Riddell: I noticed that it builds fine with libsqlite3 instead of 0
[07:00] <desrt> seb128; who things i am thinking is (1) way to get upstream logout dialog behaviour back and (2) way to make sound-juicer use lowercase for album info
[07:00] <pitti> Riddell: it's one of the few packages which keeps libsqlite0 in main
[07:00] <desrt> *two
[07:00] <lamont> seb128: is that gatomic patch there applied from upstream, or is it a patch -R version of what they want?
[07:00] <lamont> (we seem to have the patch if it's a forward patch...)
[07:02] <lamont> seb128: it's quite possible that we need to either (1) reverse that patch, or (2) have doko backport the builtin from 4.1 to 4.0
[07:02] <tepsipakki> pitti: could it be somewhere else and not in $HOME?
[07:03] <pitti> tepsipakki: /var/lib etc. would work, too, but the semantics are less desirable (for remote /home, new installs, etc.)
[07:07] <Surak> doko: there?
[07:10] <tepsipakki> pitti: imho it should be configurable.. 
[07:11] <pitti> tepsipakki: that would make it three times more complicated
[07:11] <tepsipakki> pitti: it's not nice to find yet-another dotfile on your homedir
[07:13] <seb128> desrt: having a gconf key for upstream behaviour would be trivial, but I'm not sure we want to add a gconf key for every change we do
[07:13] <tepsipakki> pitti: what message should it suppress, I can't see any?
[07:13] <pitti> tepsipakki: remove the stamp and open a new terminal
[07:13] <desrt> seb128; maybe for the really controversial ones
[07:13] <seb128> lamont: that's the change who broke glib build
[07:13] <lamont> seb128: right. testing the actual fix then.
[07:13] <desrt> seb128; cf. ubuntu spatial
[07:13] <tepsipakki> pitti: doesn't show anything on a ssh-session
[07:14] <lamont> seb128: it wouldn't surprise me to see that we need that patch completely when we switch to 4.1
[07:14] <Riddell> pitti: no uploads planned, go ahead if you want to upload, I probably can't look at it this week (ui sprint)
[07:14] <pitti> tepsipakki: are you in group admin?
[07:14] <tepsipakki> pitti: yes
[07:14] <seb128> desrt: we don't have any really controversial atm
[07:14] <desrt> seb128; you've set a precedent for not *completely* alienating your users.  may as well stick to it :)
[07:14] <lamont> seb128: if the build now works, I'll upload -0ubuntu3
[07:14] <desrt> seb128; the logout dialog seems to be controversial to me.
[07:15] <seb128> desrt: you are the only one to make a really mess about it
[07:15] <desrt> seb128; and the others who commented on the bug and in irc
[07:15] <seb128> lamont: k
[07:15] <desrt> seb128; including many who are themselves ubuntu developers
[07:15] <seb128> desrt: that's minor detail, you don't stop the computer every min anyway
[07:16] <seb128> desrt: not really or they didn't tell me
[07:16] <Kinnison> oh gods
[07:16] <Kinnison> gtkmm is so evil
[07:16] <desrt> right. this is why it's nowhere near as bad as ubuntu spatial :)
[07:16] <lamont> Kinnison: you're just now discovering that?
[07:16] <seb128> desrt: we agree there is some issues but you are the only one saying we should revert to upstream behaviour, it's anti-HIG and no change will make it fine, etc
[07:17] <Kinnison> lamont: never before have I attempted to work on this sort of code
[07:17] <desrt> seb128; fair enough.
[07:18] <desrt> seb128; but a gconf key is so much easier to maintain than my own version of the package :p
[07:20] <seb128> desrt: yeah, but as said, if we do have to add a gconf key for every change we make ...
[07:20] <seb128> and I'm pretty sure you would get used to the new dialog if you had not decided to complain until getting changed for the upstream one :)
[07:21] <Triskelios> does someone familiar with the ubuntu live cd or debian-installer know if I can use preseed/late_command to change netcfg settings?
[07:22] <desrt> seb128; i like the upstream one because it's good
[07:23] <desrt> seb128; it's not good because i like it :p
[07:23] <seb128> I like the distro one because it's good too :)
[07:23] <desrt> btw: fast user switching often causes my computer to crash.  is there some way to completely disable it?
[07:24] <desrt> fglrx doesn't like running two X servers at once on my hardware, it would seem
[07:24] <seb128> remove fast-user-switching-applet?
[07:24] <desrt> i still have 'switch user' in the logout dialog
[07:24] <desrt> (both upstream and the ubuntu one -- equally guilty) :)
[07:24] <seb128> the solution would be to drop gdmflexiserver
[07:24] <seb128> but the guilty is rather xorg
[07:25] <desrt> or maybe ATI... who knows
[07:25] <seb128> does it happen with the ati drivers too?
[07:25] <desrt> i don't know
[07:30] <lamont> seb128: we now get these warnings (which I don't care about, and gcc-4.1 will let us drop the patch, and thereby get rid of the warnings)
[07:30] <lamont> gatomic.c:417: warning: passing argument 1 of '__sync_fetch_and_add_si' discards qualifiers from pointer target type
[07:30] <lamont> gatomic.c:424: warning: passing argument 1 of '__sync_fetch_and_add_si' discards qualifiers from pointer target type
[07:30] <lamont> ...
[07:32] <seb128> k
[07:35] <siretart> can anyone please point me where initramfs-tool initialise network interfaces?
[07:35] <siretart> I'm evaluating if and how to integrate it into early userspace, but it is quite, well, undocumented :/
[07:40] <lemsx1> siretart: look under /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/
[07:41] <siretart> lemsx1: where exactly?
[07:41] <lemsx1> siretart: i'm guessing that you need the module for your eth loaded and then use ifconfig or similar to set it up
[07:41] <siretart> lemsx1: I'm searching the file which brings the interface up, and how configuration of that is handled
[07:42] <lemsx1> siretart: use hooks to add your modules and scripts to run what you need at init-top or something
[07:42] <siretart> err, great, thats what I expected. in which file does this happen?
[07:45] <lemsx1> siretart: i'm guessing in hooks/foo you would do: manual_add_modules foo
[07:45] <lemsx1> siretart: to load your module to the initramfs
[07:45] <lemsx1> siretart: and in scripts/init-top/foo you would do: ifconfig eth0 .... whatever ifconfig commands to get it up
[07:46] <lemsx1> siretart: of course, in the hook file you might want to copy_exec /sbin/ifconfig to your ${DESTDIR}/sbin/
[07:46] <lemsx1> siretart: just in case is missing ;-)
[07:47] <ogra> siretart, i'd guess you have to look at udev ...
[07:47] <ogra> since that handles the interfaces iirc ...
[07:47] <siretart> As I understand, the initramfs does already bring up the interface in early userspace
[07:47] <siretart> I fail to find the place where it happens currently
[07:48] <siretart> ogra: that what Keybuk mentioned some time, lets dig further
[07:48] <Mez> mdz/kamio: ping
[07:48] <Mez> s/kamio/kamion *
[07:48] <ogra> siretart, i think there are some udev scripts in the scripts dir 
[07:51] <Mithrandir> siretart: what are you trying to do?
[07:52] <siretart> Mithrandir: I want to learn how interface management in early userspace works today. 
[07:53] <siretart> Mithrandir: I want to understand why Keybuk and crimsum decided that wpasupplicant should be started through /etc/network/ifup.d/wpasupplicant rather than through the old init script
[07:53] <Mithrandir> siretart: generally it doesn't, because it's not needed in early userspace.
[07:53] <Mithrandir> siretart: because it should work for hotplugged interfaces?
[07:53] <siretart> the reason was that udev handles network interfaces are handled via udev in early userspace. now I want do understand how this works actually
[07:54] <siretart> Mithrandir: well, wpasupplicant daemon can wait for the interface to come up. 
[07:54] <Mithrandir> they're modprobed, but not ifup-ed.
[07:54] <siretart> and this repsects scripts in /etc/network/ifup.d/*?
[07:55] <Mithrandir> I'm not sure why you seem to be so interested in early userspace.  Networking is not brought up there unless you need it to find /
[07:55] <siretart> aha. this piece of information is useful to me
[07:56] <Mithrandir> the point of the initramfs is "find /, mount it, start init"
[07:56] <Mithrandir> not random other crap. :-)
[07:56] <siretart> hm
[07:56] <siretart> Mithrandir: does modprobing an interface cause any scripts in /etc/network/ifup.d to be executed?
[07:57] <Mithrandir> siretart: that depends. :-)
[07:57] <Mithrandir> siretart: look at /etc/udev/rules.d/85-ifupdown.rules
[07:58] <Mithrandir> it doesn't exist in the initramfs, so won't be called there
[07:59] <Mez> are mdz/Kamion the only ones allowed to allow UVF requests?
[08:00] <siretart> ok. I think I begin to understand
[08:01] <siretart> thanks for the pointer, Tollef
[08:02] <siretart> ok, so I would only need fiddling with early userspace if I want to mount / from an wpa secured network.
[08:03] <Mithrandir> yes.
[08:03] <mdz-sprint> Mez: for main, yes
[08:03] <mdz-sprint> but we do both read our email quite frequently
[08:03] <Mithrandir> siretart: so unless you're running thin clients over wireless with WPA you don't need it that early.
[08:04] <Mez> mdz-sprint, ah cool - well should I email you or do you just wanna quick run through on here first ?
[08:04] <siretart> Mithrandir: you can use wpasupplicant over wire as well
[08:04] <Mithrandir> siretart: oh, true.
[08:05] <Mez> oh, and infinity ping
[08:05] <Mez> actually
[08:06] <Mithrandir> Mez: dude, it's 0600 or thereabouts for him.
[08:07] <Mez> Mithrandir, I thought it was like - midday/mid afternoon
[08:07] <Mez> he's in America right?
[08:07] <Mithrandir> no, .au
[08:07] <xhaker> #dapper-look
[08:07] <xhaker> wrong clipboard
[08:08] <Mez> Mithrandir, whoops :D
[08:08] <Mez> didnt know
[08:20] <mdz-sprint> Mez: email, as documented
[08:21] <Mez> mdz-sprint, you, kamion, or both?
[08:22] <mdz-sprint> Mez: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[08:23] <Mez> mdz-sprint, cheers :D will email in a few moments after I've made the package 
[08:30] <Kinnison> g'night all
[08:38] <Mez> night Kinnison 
[08:38] <desrt> mdz-sprint; how does one apply for UVF break?
[08:39] <desrt> pfah.
[08:45] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I don't think the live cd boot significantly differently for me now with readahead.
[08:49] <Surak> Did someone noticed that some breezy gtk themes on amd64 makes 32-bit apps (namely openoffice) having no widgets? The widgets are grand canyon and smokey-blue...
[08:50] <Mithrandir> Surak: I can tell you the reason.  I don't think we'll end up fixing it, though.
[08:50] <Mithrandir> the problem is the themes use plugins/pixmap engines which then won't work on a non-native arch
[08:50] <Surak> It seems that gtk-libs 32 cannot open png files, isn't it?
[08:51] <Surak> ooh i see.
[08:51] <Mithrandir> I'd argue that it should fall back to another theme, or something along those lines.
[08:51] <Surak> Mithrandir: where exactly is the problem located?
[08:52] <Mithrandir> in gtk somewhere, I think.
[08:52] <Mithrandir> I haven't actually looked at the code, but it makes sense.
[08:53] <Surak> I don't know why, but I cannot access launchpad from here. This could be posted to https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/33629
[08:53] <Ubugtu> malone bug 33629 in ia32-libs-openoffice.org "openoffice2 not showing widgets in breezy amd64" [Normal,Needs info]  
[08:54] <Mithrandir> I'm currently testing the live cd a bit, so I'm slightly handicapped wrt launchpad, but yes, it should absolutely go there.
[08:54] <Mithrandir> now, if rsvg-convert could please speed up a bit, I'd be happy.
[08:54] <Mithrandir> it has so far used about 4 CPU minutes on a decent AMD64.
[08:54] <Surak> Mithrandir: Doko replied me, but I did not have more information. I just knew that there was something wrong :-) The bug is posted against the wrong lib, anyway.
[08:55] <Mithrandir> Surak: it should probably be either libgtk or ia32-libs-gtk, yes.
[08:55] <Surak> Mithrandir: If you could log in launchpad and provide more info on this bug, I'd be thankful :-)
[09:00] <Mithrandir> I need to try again without readahead.
[09:13] <Surak> Mithrandir: weird thig is, the window bars handle pixmaps correctly - but widgets doesn't. How can be that?
[09:14] <Surak> hm.. window borders are handled by the 64-bit window manager. duh
[09:28] <Mithrandir> so, readahead on the live cd adds 5s to bootup time.
[09:28] <ogra> and whats does it gain us ? 
[09:31] <Surak> Mithrandir: not only pixmaps, 32-bit apps on breezy amd64 cannot load vector widgets also. Trying with a svg-theme.
[09:31] <Tm_T> Ubugtu is needed in #kubuntu-devel
[09:31] <Tm_T> bug #33917
[09:31] <Ubugtu> malone bug 33917 in kubuntu-default-settings "lastest updates brought a new error on konqueror's system:/ sidepane" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33917
[09:31] <Tm_T> :)
[09:31] <ogra> Tm_T, ask Seveas 
[09:31] <Mithrandir> ogra: slows us down on the live cd.  I guess it might be better if we optimise it a bit
[09:31] <Tm_T> thanks
[09:32] <ogra> Mithrandir, no, i mean is it worth having it at all on the live CD ?
[09:32] <Mithrandir> ogra: it's part of the desktop seed
[09:32] <ogra> meh
[09:38] <Burgwork> smile, please turn your away/back messages off
[09:38] <smile> Burgwork: Just did ;D Sorry
[09:39] <Treenaks> oh wait
[09:46] <Burgwork> Treenaks, that is not true
[09:47] <Treenaks> Burgwork: ;)
[09:47] <ogra> Burgwork, thats a side effect of the green supplements you get with your coffee in his country ;)
[09:47] <Treenaks> ogra: duuude! :)
[09:48] <ogra> heh
[09:51] <Burgwork> ogra, cheaper and better where I live
[09:52] <Burgwork> no, the green stuff
[09:52] <ogra> i know ;)
[09:53] <lemsx1> can somebody look into  Bug #32576? I know you guys were working on it (Kamion?) but this is such a simple bug to fix... I just noticed that the Makefile is missing in this package, making it completely useless
[09:53] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32576 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 fglrx-kernel-source "missing separator when using debian/rules" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32576
[09:54] <Treenaks> Burgwork: Ours was determined to be the best green stuff in the world by the WHO
[10:11] <dAndy> Kamion: any thoughts on the FTP support?
[10:11] <sivang> Treenaks: does WHO claim that green stuff is good fro your health?
[10:12] <Treenaks> sivang: no. just that the Dutch variety has the most THC in it ;)
[10:13] <Surak> what lib is responsible for drawing pixmaps on gtk widgets?
[10:43] <sivang> Treenaks: ah, pity, I was hoping it is healthy for you :)