[12:56] <Burgwork> who is this trappist?
[12:58] <LaserJock> not sure
[12:58] <LaserJock> oh that's the "polish" guy from -devel
[04:06] <robotgeek> Burgwork: ping
[05:37] <robotgeek> zenrox: ping
[05:37] <zenrox> what robotgeek 
[05:37] <robotgeek> zenrox: you are a moderator on the forums, right?
[05:38] <zenrox> nope
[05:38] <robotgeek> zenrox: hmm, okay. i tht you were. sorry
[05:38] <zenrox> nope you ment zenwhen
[05:38] <robotgeek> zenrox: ah okay, sorry about the confusion
[05:39] <zenrox> its ok
[06:01] <onkarshinde> This page has a good howto to set rfcomm. I guess we can integrate that into BluetoothSetup on wiki for auto detection of devices. 
[06:01] <onkarshinde> http://www.geocities.com/saravkrish/progs/bluemote/bluetooth.html
[06:10] <robotgeek> onkarshinde: under what license is it?
[06:13] <onkarshinde> I am not sure about license. He has just put how he did the things. For now I will paste the link in wiki page
[06:13] <Madpilot> Hi all
[06:13] <robotgeek> hey Madpilot 
[06:13] <Madpilot> hi robotgeek 
[06:14] <robotgeek> Madpilot: i put up the Kubuntu Desktop Guide for review on the forums
[06:14] <Madpilot> good - mdke did the same for the UDG a while ago
[06:14] <robotgeek> yeah, i retained the text :)
[06:14] <Madpilot> which forum is it in?
[06:15] <robotgeek> Dapper - http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=140795
[06:15] <Madpilot> put something in the Kubuntu Desktop forum too, maybe
[06:16] <Madpilot> you can also pm one of the forum admins and ask them to sticky your post
[06:16] <robotgeek> i did, i pmed KB
[06:16] <LaserJock> I wonder where I'll get to post ;-)
[06:32] <onkarshinde> robotgeek: I have just modified BluetoothSetup page to include link to rfcomm setup. I also created BluetoothRemote page yesterday for Sony Ericsson phones that can be used as remote control over bluetooth. Any comments welcomed.
[06:32] <robotgeek> onkarshinde: link?
[06:33] <onkarshinde> robotgeek: on ubuntu wiki. wiki.ubuntu.com/BluetoothSetup and wiki.ubuntu.com/BluetoothRemote
[06:42] <onkarshinde> robotgeek: any comments?
[06:43] <robotgeek> onkarshinde: hmm, i am on the phone right now, will take a look as soon as i finish
[06:44] <onkarshinde> Ok. I will sign off. I will sign in afterwards.
[06:56] <Madpilot> hi dsas 
[06:57] <dsas> hi Madpilot
[06:59] <dsas> hows things going?
[07:00] <Madpilot> busy here
[07:03] <dsas> ah, that could be good or bad.  I've just had a week off so now it's getting back into the swing of things.
[08:31] <mdke_> robotgeek, re /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/common, what is it? I don't think it's on doc.u.c
[08:45] <robotgeek> mdke_: basically the images for kde docs
[08:46] <Madpilot> robotgeek, your version of the KDG looks very KDE-ish - all bloooo and shiny :P
[08:46] <robotgeek> mdke_: http://www.robotgeek.org/kubuntu/desktopguide/index.html 
[08:46] <mdke_> robotgeek, oh i see your mail now. but your website doesn't render the top bar properly...
[08:46] <mdke_> something I've been killing myself over is how the hell the kde docs in khelpcenter manage that top bar and bottom bar
[08:46] <robotgeek> mdke_: i just used the kde-web.xsl
[08:47] <robotgeek> yeah, i'm trying to figure out how the hell kde does it apps
[08:47] <robotgeek> help, err
[08:47] <mdke_> if we could do the same for our web docs we could then switch to xsltproc for everything
[08:47] <mdke_> i think it might be something to do with the <filename> tag it puts in the html
[08:48] <mdke_> tr
[08:48] <mdke_> oops
[08:49] <robotgeek> mdke_: do you know a nice way of viewing the docs in khelpcenter, i tried opening the index.docbook, but they refuse to open in there
[08:49] <mdke_> just type khelpcenter
[08:49] <mdke_> then browse to the relevant one
[08:49] <robotgeek> mdke_: i mean the ones i have written
[08:50] <mdke_> the web ones don't have an index.docbook, they just have an index.html
[08:50] <mdke_> you can open that easily enough in khelpcenter
[08:55] <mdke_> robotgeek, i'll take another look at this stuff today and reply on the thread. it's a tricky issue :/
[08:56] <robotgeek> mdke_: i know, we don't want to break kde's documentation procedure for mere eye candy
[08:56] <mdke_> well, their docs are pretty candy filled, it's our that suck
[08:58] <robotgeek> i'll try to look and dig deeper too. 
[09:00] <robotgeek> later then, night
[09:43] <onkarshinde> can anybody take a look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BluetoothRemote and suggest any improvements. It is my first wiki page that is why I am asking this.
[09:49] <onkarshinde> anybody talks here?
[09:52] <onkarshinde> hello
[09:53] <bhuvan> onkarshinde, in general the presentation is good. but, i couldnot locate the conf file to edit or steps to get it done in ubuntu, etc.
[09:54] <onkarshinde> bhuvan: The .hid file mentioned in table is a tar archive. You can extract it somewhere. And I have mentioned two links (Sony Developer website) where you can get format of the xml.
[09:55] <onkarshinde> Also BluetoothSetup page has everything else related to bluetooth in Ubuntu.
[09:57] <bhuvan> onkarshinde, BluetoothSetup is ok.
[09:57] <bhuvan> onkarshinde, i'm unable to relate your wiki with BluetoothSetup except a link to the former
[09:58] <bhuvan> onkarshinde, or i dont know or you have not specified where we should use your conf file
[09:58] <onkarshinde> bhuvan: BluetoothSetup specifies how to setup HID which is actually used by this 'Remote Control' functionality.
[09:58] <bhuvan> ok
[10:00] <onkarshinde> Your last point is right. I will have to mention that users will need to send this .hid file to their handset someway.
[10:01] <bhuvan> ok
[10:02] <bhuvan> next, you might also specify the parameters specific to sony .. thus other mobile users may look for their counterpart
[10:03] <bhuvan> imo, once you prepare the document just follow the steps you mentioned and ensure you setup your bluetooth successfully. if yes, sure it will be very useful for others
[10:06] <onkarshinde> I have checked setup. I did exactly as was mentioned on wiki (BluetoothSetup). The last section for autoconnecting devices when in range since is added by me.
[10:06] <onkarshinde> Regarding other phones, I have no idea if any of them provide this functionality. And my file is only for SE phones.
[10:31] <onkarshinde> jsgotangco: Hi
[10:31] <onkarshinde> jsgotangco: I managed to auto connect bluetooth phone when in range (i.e. initiate connection form device).
[10:32] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[10:32] <jsgotangco> i haven't tested mine yet (will try later)
[10:32] <onkarshinde> jsgotangco: No problem. Just FYI..
[10:34] <jsgotangco> how did it auto connect?
[10:35] <onkarshinde> jsgotangco: I had to setup rfcomm and then add 'rfcomm bind all' and 'rfcomm release all' in start and stop section of bluez-script
[10:39] <onkarshinde> jsgotangco: Please see last section of BluetoothSetup page on wiki. 
[10:40] <mkde> jsgotangco, yo
[10:41] <jsgotangco> mdke, hi!
[10:41] <mkde> jsgotangco, i was wondering what to do about all the people who apply to join the docs group, but who haven't yet contributed so as to get svn access. Shall we clean up the list a bit by rejecting a few people with kind messages encouraging them to join the mailing list and contribute first, or shall we just leave them on the "to be approved" list?
[10:42] <mkde> I prefer the former solution, I think
[10:42] <onkarshinde> jsgotangco: I am just hoping that the file I made is useful to Linux and SE users.
[10:42] <jsgotangco> mdke, i prefer the former too at least they don't get ignored
[10:42] <mkde> ok, i'll do some of that
[10:43] <mkde> I'm going to leave the people who have started contributing already, like jpatrick
[10:43] <mkde> and manicka
[10:44] <jsgotangco> thanks, i've been a busy at work lately and currently have pretty bad net access
[10:44] <jsgotangco> but it'll normalise in a week
[10:44] <rob> did my email make it to -devel? 
[10:44] <mkde> rob, yes
[10:44] <rob> I hate how it doesn't send it back
[10:44] <mkde> it doesn't?
[10:44] <mkde> it does to me
[10:45] <jsgotangco> gmail doesnt send you back what you sent already
[10:45] <rob> ah, thats it
[10:45] <jsgotangco> it makes it part of the thread
[10:46] <rob> that sucks if using pop though
[10:46] <jsgotangco> i think it downloads as pop
[10:47] <mkde> robotgeek is deactivated in the group. /me activates him
[10:47] <rob> ?
[11:26] <jsgotangco> its your lp activity
[11:26] <mdke> ompaul, when you report/comment on/close bugs or do translations, you get karma
[11:26] <ompaul> ahh
[11:26] <mdke> or upload stuff, etc etc
[11:27] <ompaul> cos I could not figure how I got any
[11:27] <ompaul> thanks
[11:27] <mdke> also, if you're just a good person, you get some
[11:27] <rob> oh, kinky
[11:27] <ompaul> okay
[11:29] <jsgotangco> lol how come i dont get any karma for being good
[11:29] <jsgotangco> ompaul, file bugs, you get karma points
[11:29] <jsgotangco> do translations, karam
[11:30] <jsgotangco> answer a support question, karma
[11:31] <ompaul> jsgotangco, well bugs I do and support I do a bit but is it in a *karma* location - irc :) or sounder - I tend to avoid the malone and friends, I am not expert enough to say issues exist in most cases
[11:31] <ompaul> few wiki pages that might be useful
[11:32] <rob> I wouldn't get to worked up in the lp karma thing, at least I'm not :)
[11:32] <ompaul> rob, I'm not, I was curious
[11:32] <rob> make yourself a "home" wiki page and link all of your contributions on it
[11:32] <rob> wiki and otherwise
[11:32] <ompaul> lots of that is done
[11:33] <rob> thats the best thing to have I think, you can showcase everything you do on it
[11:33] <rob> lp karma is limited somewhat to bugs, translations etc
[11:33] <ompaul> well if I was to put everything on it I would have to mirror the irc logs for #ubuntu
[11:33] <ompaul> and get a few lines from there
[11:34] <rob> put a couple of tricky examples where you went out of your way to help out
[11:34] <ompaul> thats not a bad idea
[11:34] <ompaul> thanks
[11:35] <rob> a couple of references from other members who use the channel will also help
[11:36] <ompaul> well if any of them that I know were in #ubuntu now I would talking to them, today came up far too quickly
[11:38] <rob> are you up for membership tonight?
[11:39] <ompaul> well I was going to subscribe for 12 is it tonight or in 1.5 hours?
[11:40] <rob> in about an hour and a half yes
[11:40] <highvoltage> rob: good luck
[11:40] <ompaul> well I might as well link in - the worst case is they say do more
[11:41] <rob> highvoltage, thanks, I think?
[11:41] <highvoltage> rob: yes, sorry, didn't mean it in a bad way :
[11:41] <highvoltage> :)
[11:41] <rob> nah I realise that, just wondering what for
[11:42] <highvoltage> ubuntu membership.
[11:42] <ompaul> ehh he has it 
[11:42] <rob> heh
[11:42] <ompaul> s/ehh/heh/ehh?
[11:43] <highvoltage> heh. sorry, been a long day (again!) :)
[11:43] <rob> I know how that feels :)
[11:53] <mdke> damn, where is robotgeek when you need him
[11:54] <rob> heh
[12:07] <mdke> argh
[12:13] <mdke> ahhhh
[12:24] <mdke> ok, i rock
[12:24] <rob> oh?
[12:24] <rob> hey mdke, can I get my password reset for the svn repo?
[12:26] <rob> mumble.. I'm gonna have to generate a new key too..
[12:28] <mdke> here's the proof: http://doc.ubuntu.com/test/mdke_rocks.png 
[12:29] <mdke> rob, i can't do that. Send patches for the moment, and we'll ask elmo to send you your password
[12:29] <rob> mdke, that is pretty nice, good stuff
[12:29] <rob> mdke, yeah I forgot
[01:20] <jsgotangco> mdke_, that's pretty
[03:43] <mdke> mpt, i changed the team description, feel free to eyeball it and give feedback
[03:43] <mdke> trappist, welcome
[03:44] <mdke> jjesse, did you see my kde bling banner?
[03:48] <jjesse> mdke: yes i did, how does it differ from the stylesheet that is shipped in kubuntu?
[03:49] <mdke> jjesse, not much, that's the point
[03:50] <mdke> the only difference is that it is made with xsltproc, not meinproc
[04:31] <trappist> mdke: thanks
[04:34] <mdke> jsgotangco: check this out. http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/index.html
[04:34] <mdke> sexy huh
[04:35] <mdke> taking a closer look at the kde stylesheets showed me how to add banners to pages
[04:35] <jsgotangco> oh wow
[04:35] <jsgotangco> what did you use?
[04:36] <mdke> i've uploaded it
[04:36] <mdke> have a look at trunk/ubuntu/libs/ubuntu-banner.xsl
[04:37] <jsgotangco> oh boy dapper documentation just went the next level
[04:37] <jsgotangco> those guys are writing freaks
[04:37] <mdke> which guys?
[04:39] <jsgotangco> bhuvan and robotgeek
[04:39] <jsgotangco> and the best barrister that i know
[04:40] <mdke> that's more like it :)
[04:40] <jsgotangco> seriously, you're more of a technical writer now than a lawyer from what i see
[04:40] <jsgotangco> or hear
[04:40] <mdke> hardly
[04:41] <jsgotangco> i guess its just time management
[04:41] <jsgotangco> all of us have 24 hours anyway
[04:41] <mdke> yep
[04:53] <jsgotangco> gotta sleep
[04:53] <jsgotangco> good night
[05:04] <robotgeek> mdke_: great job the kde web thing, bling cha ching!
[05:13] <mdke> robotgeek: ping?
[05:15] <robotgeek> mdke: pong
[05:16] <mdke> robotgeek: great. what do you use to build the kubuntu desktop guide? the Makefile or the mk script?
[05:16] <robotgeek> mdke: i used the makefile
[05:17] <mdke> robotgeek: thanks
[05:18] <robotgeek> mdke: for what :)
[05:18] <mdke> for telling me
[05:18] <mdke> robotgeek: can we eliminate the mk script for now?
[05:19] <robotgeek> mdke: sure, i don't use it at all. i started using the Makefile quite a while back
[05:20] <mdke> robotgeek: great again
[05:21] <robotgeek> mdke: thanks for dealing with stuffi don't understand :)
[05:22] <mdke> you started it :)
[05:26] <mdke> jjesse: robotgeek: can we get rid of the entries in the Makefile for the userguide and adminguide (defunct docs, iirc?)
[05:27] <jjesse> yes
[05:27] <jjesse> defaunt docs, the userguide has been replaced by the desktop guide and the admin guide was never maintained as far as i know
[05:27] <mdke> cool
[05:27] <mdke> jjesse: and the install guide too?
[05:27] <mdke> what about "kynaptic user manual"? did that move upstream?
[05:29] <jjesse> install guide should be and i don't know what happened with the kynaptic user manual
[05:29] <mdke> ok, nuking from the Makefile for now then. Thanks
[05:29] <jjesse> i do have a question on the install docs that are included on the cd, are they maintained  by us?  cause I think there should be some differences for kubuntu
[05:31] <mdke> jjesse: Colin Watson maintains them, I don't know if he does kubuntu things too. nick is "Kamion" on irc
[05:32] <jjesse> he on #ubuntu usually?
[05:32] <mdke> -devel
[05:32] <mdke> ok, I've just done some fairly heavy changes to the kubuntu build stuff for the website. Please tell me if I've broken anything
[05:32] <jjesse> ok i'll track him down
[05:32] <mdke> I'm going to test now
[05:32] <jjesse> good luck
[05:33] <mdke> we should have some nice blingy kubuntu docs on the site in a moment
[05:33] <jjesse> i love it when someone hits a power pole nearby :)  1400 people are out of power including my office
[05:33] <mdke> argh
[05:33] <jjesse> thank goodness for a good full generator 
[05:34] <mdke> rock
[05:34] <mdke> http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/about-kubuntu-web/C/index.html
[05:34] <mdke> http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide-web/C/index.html
[05:34] <mdke> etc 
[05:34] <robotgeek> mdke: awesome
[05:34] <mdke> robotgeek: thanks for showing me how :D
[05:35] <robotgeek> mdke: heh, i got that from doc.kde.org
[05:35] <mdke> yeah
[05:35] <mdke> now, all that remains is to convince riddell to let us ship the html like that in the distribution
[05:35] <mdke> then we can use xincludes again
[05:37] <robotgeek> hmm, let me see if i can find him
[05:37] <mdke> I've pinged him
[05:37] <robotgeek> hmm, okay then
[05:40] <mdke> hmm
[05:40] <mdke> robotgeek: you got a kubuntu dapper handy?
[05:40] <robotgeek> mdke: yup
[05:40] <mdke> can you open khelpcenter, and then the desktopguide and then see if the title in the blue banner changes on every page of the guide you visit
[05:41] <mdke> or does it stay "Kubuntu Desktop Guide"
[05:42] <robotgeek> it changes, i guess title
[05:43] <mdke> so it has the title of each subsection in it?
[05:44] <robotgeek> it has the chapter heading
[05:44] <mdke> good news
[05:44] <mdke> thanks
[05:44] <jjesse> i forwarded your email riddell as well
[05:44] <jjesse> mdke: 
[05:45] <mdke> jjesse: thanks, although i cc:ed him :)
[05:45] <mdke> or maybe I forgot to
[05:45] <jjesse> grin i didn't see that or which jonathan you were talking to
[05:45] <mdke> oh good point
[05:45] <robotgeek> heh 
[05:48] <robotgeek> mdke: can you browse over to http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide-web/C/index.html and try clicking on say the APT section?
[05:48] <mdke> yes
[05:48] <robotgeek> it's incredibly difficult, and i don't know who is at fault here :)
[05:49] <mdke> the link is very small
[05:50] <robotgeek> no, what i meant was that the subsections in a chapter are incredibly difficult to click, not only the apt link
[05:50] <mdke> i noticed that on the kde online documents too
[05:50] <mdke> yes
[05:50] <robotgeek> i don't know what that happens. we should file a bug somewhere, and not to the -doc team :)
[05:50] <mdke> it's a bug in the stylesheets, I have no idea how to find it though
[05:51] <robotgeek> hmm, lemme grok too
[05:51] <robotgeek> even the docs.kde.org things have that problem
[05:51] <mdke> http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kdebase/kate/index.html
[05:52] <mdke> see under 3: The Document List
[05:52] <robotgeek> yeah, totally not clickable
[05:52] <mdke> i'll bbl
[06:05] <robotgeek> hey apokryphos 
[06:05] <apokryphos> aloha
[06:06] <robotgeek> apokryphos: you use kubuntu, right?
[06:06] <apokryphos> robotgeek: sometimes, yeah; SuSE lately though.
[06:06] <Burgwork> somebody pinged me?
[06:08] <robotgeek> apokryphos: hmm, okay
[06:08] <apokryphos> robotgeek: why?
[06:09] <robotgeek> apokryphos: http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide-web/C/index.html review this?
[06:10] <apokryphos> robotgeek: sure. I'll try to look through all by today. What's the svn info so I could create a patch if need be?
[06:11] <apokryphos> the different docbook rules for kubu takes a little getting used to ;-)
[06:11] <robotgeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contribute https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/GettingStarted
[06:12] <apokryphos> thanks
[06:24] <trappist> in the kde docs if you change the .sect1, .chapter, .synopsis, .appendix, .preface, .article, .refsect1, .index, .glossary, .section in css to padding: 0em; it's all clickable
[06:25] <robotgeek> trappist: would it be too much to ask for a patch :)
[06:25] <robotgeek> that's a very annoying bug, we may also need to put it in main. 
[06:26] <trappist> can do
[06:26] <robotgeek> thanks
[06:27] <trappist> sent to the list
[06:28] <trappist> should have asked first, but should patches like that be inline or attachments?
[06:29] <LaserJock> trappist: attachments are nice
[06:29] <trappist> gotcha.
[06:30] <LaserJock> I usually download the diff and look at it and then apply it with patch so attachments are much better
[06:31] <trappist> it's a one-line change so my kneejerk reaction was to paste the diff into the email, but I'll resist the urge in the future.
[06:35] <robotgeek> trappist: it does work on my test page, thanks
[06:37] <trappist> my pleasure
[06:44] <robotgeek> trappist: take a look at the list again, mdke said something about the css :)
[06:49] <trappist> replied
[06:51] <robotgeek> cool. i'll leave it to mdke to commit it, i am not very handy with css
[06:52] <onkarshinde> just FYI ... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BluetoothRemote is now mentioned in Sony Ericsson developer forums http://developer.sonyericsson.com/ann.jspa?annID=5
[06:52] <robotgeek> onkarshinde: good job :)
[06:52] <mdke> trappist: thanks for that latest patch, it works nicely :)
[06:53] <trappist> cool
[06:53] <robotgeek> mdke: we should send it to upstream kde also :)
[06:54] <mdke> robotgeek: sure, I think it should work there too
[06:54] <robotgeek> mdke: we need to patch kdelibs-data also. 
[06:55] <mdke> do we?
[06:55] <mdke> not in Ubuntu, i don't think
[06:56] <robotgeek> let me look at khelpcenter
[06:56] <robotgeek> well, maybe not
[06:57] <mdke> well if I convince Riddell, we'll use the same css file for khelpcenter as for the website anyhow
[06:57] <robotgeek> he's awake right now, maybe we should bother him right away
[06:58] <mdke> not for me, I'm off home
[06:58] <mdke> he has the email anyway, I don't want to stress him
[06:58] <robotgeek> mdke: he was wondering why you want to use xsltproc
[06:59] <robotgeek> anyways, he will get to the email soon i guess
[06:59] <mdke> the answer is because it supports xincludes, and the ubuntu docs, server guide and packaging guide all use those
[06:59] <mdke> xincludes make it easier to arrange translation of the files
[07:00] <robotgeek> cool, i'll keep that in mind
[07:00] <jjesse> but i thought the goal was to keep kubuntu docs inline with kde docs style and tool wise?
[07:00] <jjesse> i thought that was what we agreeded upon the last time we talked abou this?
[07:01] <mdke> yes, because the kde tools were easier to achieve the style with
[07:01] <mdke> however now that we can achieve the style with the standard tool, I don't see why we should use 2 toolchains
[07:02] <Burgwork> robotgeek, pong
[07:02] <robotgeek> ping Burgwork 
[07:02] <Burgwork> what did you need?
[07:02] <robotgeek> Burgwork: when, what?
[07:03] <robotgeek> did i ping you sometime? 
[07:03] <Burgwork> the log says you pinged me
[07:03] <robotgeek> Burgwork: hmm, i was about to ping you yesterday, but i think i went offline. i don't quite remember for what now  
[07:04] <robotgeek> i thought i did not ping you
[07:04] <LaserJock> ghost ping, eh?
[07:05] <robotgeek> hey LaserJock 
[07:09] <LaserJock> how's it going robotgeek? Seems like your pretty busy with the Kubuntu docs
[07:10] <robotgeek> LaserJock: yeah, just want to finish it off soon so that i can do other stuff.
[07:11] <LaserJock> I need to get the Packaging Guide finished :(
[07:13] <robotgeek> yup..23'rd is 2 weeks away
[07:14] <LaserJock> yikes
[07:14] <robotgeek> yeah, hence the frenetic activity.
[08:15] <trappist> ubuntu/quicktour/quicktour.html is full of funky unicode representations of apostrophes.  should these be replaced with &apos; ?
[08:17] <trappist> if I look at it in a browser and copy and paste "you'll" I get "you\u2019ll"
[08:17] <trappist> which always drives me nuts, especially on irc
[08:20] <Burgwork> http://www.usa4id.com/ciwc/SawedOff.htm <-- mark firing a gun
[08:21] <trappist> or even better, &rsquo;
[08:23] <LaserJock> Burgwork: sweet
[08:36] <trappist> hrm.  looks like I accidentally double-posted to the list.
[08:56] <Burgwork> trappist, good to have your aboard
[08:57] <trappist> thanks
[08:57] <trappist> good to have something to do :)
[09:08] <Burgwork> you can have some of things I have to do ;)
[09:17] <trappist> whatcha got?
[09:22] <Burgwork> trappist, my room is a mess. Kitchen floor needs to be cleaned
[09:23] <trappist> oh that.  I have enough of that at the house, but thanks anyway.
[09:23] <Burgwork> ok. lol
[09:24] <trappist> my dog apparently can't stand a clean house and corrects the problem at his earliest convenience
[09:27] <Burgwork> ah, I see
[09:31] <mdke_> trappist, I've committed both of your other patches, thanks for those. I haven't emailed the list yet because my email isn't working right now :/
[09:31] <trappist> ossum
[09:31] <trappist> hate it when email breaks
[09:32] <mdke_> my dynamic ip hasn't updated yet
[09:33] <trappist> hate it when my ip is dynamic :)
[09:33] <trappist> <3 speakeasy
[09:34] <mdke_> i need better email
[09:35] <trappist> you run a mail server on a dynamic ip?
[09:35] <mdke_> smtp only
[09:36] <mdke_> mainly because I wanted to know how to do it
[09:36] <mdke_> but it's convenient to avoid changing smtp in my mail client all the time
[09:37] <trappist> a lot of ISPs will block your mail if it's from a dynamic ip.  I had that problem for a while.
[09:38] <mdke_> yeah, i just reroute it through my isp's smtp server.
[09:38] <trappist> that's a solution
[09:39] <mdke_> gah
[09:39] <mdke_> my dns services are up to date with the right ip. but the internet doesn't know about it /me kicks internet
[09:40] <trappist> takes a while to propagate
[09:40] <trappist> back in my dynamic ip days I had verizon and luckily they let me keep the same IP for years at a time
[09:41] <trappist> but they suck and I fired them and like I said, <3 speakeasy
[09:41] <mdke_> mmm
[10:05] <LaserJock> argghh, trappist you found an it's in the Packaging Guide :(
[10:05] <trappist> oh, is that yours? ;)
[10:07] <LaserJock> trappist: yeah, and I'm terrible with spelling and grammar at times :-)
[10:07] <trappist> I got yer back :)
[10:08] <mdke> only one, in the whole guide *pats LaserJock*
[10:09] <LaserJock> I try, but I'm not much of a writer
[10:12] <LaserJock> I just got a departmental presentation out of the way today and I made MOTU so hopefully I can get the Packaging Guide finished ASAP
[10:14] <mdke> cool
[10:15] <LaserJock> I've also got a couple of MOTUs that are hopefully going to send some patches
[10:16] <LaserJock> mdke: oh, and the original author of that IntroDeveloperDoc (the first packaging guide I sendt you) pdf contacted me
[10:16] <mdke> cool
[10:17] <LaserJock> mdke: and he said he is eager to help with the Packaging Guide
[10:17] <mdke> do you guys know what is meant by "gatekeeper"?
[10:17] <jjesse> root acccount
[10:17] <mdke> not you jjesse 
[10:17] <jjesse> grin :)
[10:17] <mdke> anyone except jjesse 
[10:17] <LaserJock> somebody who keeps the gate ;-)
[10:17] <jjesse> are you reading my section of the book?  i think i use it a lot in there, don't remember where i picked it up
[10:18] <mdke> yeah
[10:18] <mdke> i saw it in chapter 3 too
[10:18] <jjesse> i think it was in another section of the book that i read
[10:18] <jjesse> yeah that's right
[10:18] <mdke> i recommend you take it out :) I think it is a reference to the Ghostbusters film
[10:18] <trappist> about the style guide.  why do we say yes, use the series comma?
[10:18] <jjesse> mdke: what would you use instead to refere to that password?  the root password?
[10:19] <jjesse> looking forward to your suggestions :)
[10:19] <LaserJock> mdke well, I probably wouldn't have a problem with it in context but it isn't necessarily intuitive
[10:19] <trappist> ghostbusters is the first thing that comes to mind when I hear gatekeeper.  the 2nd is princess bride.
[10:19] <mdke> jjesse, administrator account. the password is the user's password.
[10:19] <LaserJock> jjesse: what about "superuser password"
[10:19] <mdke> but not everyone has seen ghostbusters
[10:19] <mdke> by the way jjesse, your chapter is awesom
[10:19] <jjesse> mdke: i'm glad you like it i still have some tweaking
[10:19] <jjesse> mdke: do you think more inforamtion is needed?
[10:19] <LaserJock> jeeze, I saw ghostbusters long ago, I didn't even remember that word from it
[10:19] <mdke> i haven't finished it yet
[10:20] <mdke> but i can already tell that it rocks
[10:20] <jjesse> thanks
[10:20] <LaserJock> jjesse: what chapter(s) are you writing?
[10:20] <jjesse> LaserJock: kubuntu chapter
[10:21] <jjesse> its chapter 9 in the book
[10:22] <LaserJock> jjesse: that is what I thought, is it available yet? or do only the privileged few (mdke) get to check it out ;-)
[10:23] <jjesse> its in the technical review stage
[10:23] <LaserJock> cool, I look forward to it
[10:25] <LaserJock> It seems like we are building some really good documentation infrastructure
[10:25] <mdke> I'm totally pleased with docs right now. lots of contributors \o/
[10:26] <jjesse> its really nice to see more people working on kubuntu, no longer the lone wolf
[10:26] <mdke> :)
[10:27] <LaserJock> I'm still wonder how many people actually read the docs, but I think more and more will if the docs are good quality
[10:27] <mdke> yep
[10:28] <LaserJock> I'm particularly interested, from my own experiences, in advanced users and devs
[10:29] <LaserJock> I think most of them don't realize the wealth of documentation that is on their computer
[10:30] <mdke> true
[10:30] <mdke> that's not their fault, but ours
[10:30] <trappist> ok more general question about the styleguide.  are we looking for proofreading work or contributions to the guidelines themselves?  because I have some questions about some of the guidelines.
[10:31] <trappist> for example, "Avoid using the apostrophe to indicate possession" <-- why?
[10:32] <mdke> trappist, the guidelines themselves. Feel free to discuss on the mailing list. jeff replied about the series comma thing
[10:33] <trappist> cool.
[10:34] <LaserJock> hmm, what the heck is a series comma?
[10:35] <mdke> it's a common which comes before the "and" in a list of stuff
[10:35] <mdke> like: I have an apple, a banana, and a pear
[10:35] <mdke> common/comma
[10:35] <trappist> aka the oxford comma
[10:35] <mdke> although, tbh, I only learnt what it was today, from trappist 
[10:36] <LaserJock> oh, so you don't necessarily have to have the last comma, right? I think I read that somewhere
[10:37] <trappist> right.  the style guide says use it.  I hate it.
[10:37] <mdke> yes that's right. our styleguide recommends the comma
[10:37] <trappist> I hate it because it's not necessary, and only the morally weak use unnecessary commas.  but the styleguide hath spoken.
[10:39] <LaserJock> trappist: well, I was always taught that you had to have that comma. It seems like a minor issue to me but it is interesting
[10:39] <LaserJock> is it a geographical thing?
[10:40] <LaserJock> like some countries do but others don't
[10:40] <mdke> we tend not to use it here in the UK, I think. Not sure
[10:41] <trappist> LaserJock: the brits tend not to use it.  americans mostly do.  as an american anglophile I'm a little torn on some of these issues, but I side with the british on this one.
[10:44] <LaserJock> interesting, I just think it is odd how small things like a comma can be a big deal
[10:49] <mdke> good question about the parenthesis
[10:49] <mdke> es*