[01:06] <nictuku> hi
[01:07] <LaserJock> hi
[01:11] <nate__> hallo, can anyone point me to any resources that outline hacking the ubuntu install?  I'd like to customize an install for forensics, possibly adding a package or two
[01:12] <Burgwork> nate__, search the wiki for customizing install cds
[01:13] <nate__> Burgwork, thanks :D
[01:15] <whiprush> Burgwork: ping
[01:17] <Burgwork> whiprush, pong
[01:17] <whiprush> Burgwork: hey what was that filtering extension you mentioned the other day?
[01:18] <Burgwork> whiprush, filtering extension to what?
[01:18] <Burgwork> whiprush, the one that ogra wants to package? Willow
[01:19] <whiprush> yeah
[01:19] <whiprush> thanks
[01:19] <Burgwork> if you package that, I will love you forever (well, maybe not)
[01:20] <infinity> slomo: Done.
[01:20] <slomo> infinity: thanks
[01:21] <Mez> infinity, got chance to look at that code yet 
[01:23] <infinity> Mez: Nah, launchpad ate my baby.  I can look at it right nowish, whilst waking up.
[01:23] <Mez> infinity, cool
[01:24] <Mez> you need the link again?
[01:26] <infinity> Nah, my irssi never forgets.
[01:26] <nate__> Burgwork, I lub you
[01:26] <Burgwork> nate__, really? wow
[01:27] <nate__> Burgwork, that was PRECISELY what I was looking for and it has made my workload TONS lighter.
[01:27] <ajmitch> infinity: just waking up now?
[01:27] <Burgwork> nate__, now can you write a pygtk tool to make the process easier?
[01:27] <infinity> ajmitch: *grunt*
[01:28] <infinity> ajmitch: was up late last night (and technically, I work from 11am to 7pm, cause I just hate mornings THAT MUCH)
[01:29] <ajmitch> I can sympathise with that
[01:29] <nate__> Burgwork, let me get on that.....sometime in the next century.....
[01:30] <Burgwork> nate__, ok
[01:30] <nate__> Burgwork, but I wouldn't mind some better GUI development IDEs myself, tell me if you come accross any that are worth their salt.
[01:30] <slomo> infinity: failed again... seems to be a buildd failure... http://librarian.launchpad.net/1663088/buildlog_ubuntu-dapper-powerpc.liboil_0.3.7-0ubuntu4_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[01:30] <nate__> Burgwork, I even bought komodo from activestate...what a wasted $300
[01:31] <slomo> infinity: all other builds on ross fail the same way
[01:31] <infinity> slomo: I know.  Fixing.
[01:49] <dAndy> Kamion: you around?
[01:53] <Burgwork> whiprush, are you looking at using that for detriot?
[01:54] <Burgwork> whiprush, s/that/willow
[02:18] <nate__> anyone know this?  If I have a remote and a local repository for the same section in the sources.list, 'breezy' for instance, if the remote connection fails, will it failover to the local one?
[02:19] <tseng> are they both breezy main?
[02:19] <tseng> im not sure apt would be very happy if they were
[02:19] <nate__> yeah
[02:20] <nate__> so if i have breezy main universe multiverse resticted
[02:20] <nate__> will it fail over?
[02:22] <tseng> it doesnt complain like I thought
[02:23] <nate__> ok, but that doesn't speak to failover :)
[02:23] <nate__> thanks for checkin it out then
[02:26] <nate__> then = though*
[02:27] <infinity> Yes, it fails over gracefully if the remote repo is unreachable or if the remote repo throws a 404 for a file.
[02:27] <nate__> SWEET :D
[02:27] <infinity> (Well, "remote/local" is meaningless, it starts at the top of the list, and works its way down)
[02:27] <nate__> thanks
[02:27] <nate__> infinity: i lub you, have my babies.  that's sooooooo awesome, it makes my job even easier
[02:28] <infinity> I tend to use that feature in the opposite way, by having my local mirror first, then archive.ubuntu.com second.
[02:28] <nate__> yeah, that's what i'm gonna do
[02:28] <infinity> So, if my mirror isn't fresh, is broken, or whatever, I fallback to grabbing files over the slow link to archive (which is always "right")
[02:28] <nate__> so if they take it home
[02:29] <infinity> Our installer does the same thing if you install from CD.
[02:29] <infinity> You'll not it lists the CD entry first, then the http://archive entries.
[02:29] <infinity> So, if your CD doesn't have the right files (not enough space, or they've been updated for security), it falls back to getting it from the network.
[02:29] <infinity> s/not it lists/note it lists/
[02:29] <nate__> coolness
[02:31] <infinity> Also, I don't want to be a jerk (even if I often am), but these softs of questions should really be asked in #ubuntu... #ubuntu-devel is for development of Ubuntu, not a "talk to the developers about stuff" channel.
[02:31] <nate__> awwww ;D
[02:31] <infinity> s/softs/sorts/
[02:31] <infinity> I really need to learn to type.
[02:32] <nate__> i know what ya mean
[02:33] <nate__> Well, I'm developing a forensics distro based on ubuntu and wanted to know how that worked because of we would prefer to keep their boxes off the network, but if they did want to take them home we wouldn't want apt to break
[02:33] <nate__> so it actually is development related
[02:34] <nate__> but maybe not related in the way this channel was intended for :D
[02:34] <nate__> so ignore me..
[03:26] <joelbryan> how do I post images from wiki?
[03:27] <Burgundavia> joelbryan: you mean upload them to the wiki?
[03:28] <joelbryan> Burgundavia: yes! as attachment.
[03:30] <Burgundavia> joelbryan: go to the page you want to add the image to. In the middle of hte screen, there is a drop down menu. Choose "Upload attachment" (I don't remember the exact wording)
[03:32] <joelbryan> Burgundavia: is it available while editing the page?
[03:33] <Burgundavia> joelbryan: finish editing, the upload
[03:33] <joelbryan> then upload
[03:34] <joelbryan> Burgundavia: It's on ubuntu wiki, I 
[03:34] <joelbryan> I can't see any link
[03:35] <Burgundavia> do you see the "more actions" drop down
[03:35] <Burgundavia> ?
[03:36] <joelbryan> Burgundavia: thanks! man, I got it!
[03:37] <Burgundavia> joelbryan: np
[04:20] <wasabi> Hahah nice.
[04:20] <corey_> wasabi: hmm?
[04:21] <wasabi> my gf said she got a pop up message saying that a drive was full
[04:21] <Burgundavia> that message needs to be tweaks
[04:21] <Burgundavia> ed\
[04:21] <wasabi> Is there such a message?
[04:21] <wasabi> I haven't seen it yet.
[04:22] <irvin> wasabi, afaik there is on dapper
[04:22] <wasabi> I think then it popped up and said our CD was full.
[04:22] <wasabi> Which, as most ROMs go, is true. ;)
[04:22] <ajmitch> yes, and it'll hopefully be disabled/configurable soon
[04:23] <wasabi> That's what she says anyways.
[04:26] <wasabi> What component is responsible for the notification?
[04:30] <Burgundavia> wasabi: I believe it is gnome-volume-manager and I believe a bug has already been filed
[04:54] <Kyral> Okay....are there any reports of major breakage?
[04:59] <Mez> Kyral: are you having major breakage 
[04:59] <Mez> ??
[04:59] <Kyral> yah
[04:59] <Kyral> like most of GNOME freaking out
[04:59] <Kyral> I try to start GNOME and a crapload of errors come up
[05:00] <Mez> Kyral, define "freaking out"
[05:00] <Mez> Kyral, are you on ia32 /
[05:00] <Mez> ?
[05:00] <Kyral> Yah
[05:00] <Kyral> x86
[05:01] <Mez> yes or no to ia32 ?
[05:01] <Kyral> Like suddenly NONE of my panel apps come up
[05:01] <Kyral> ia32 == x86 last I knew
[05:02] <Kyral> KDE works fine
[05:02] <Kyral> but it seems like any GTK app fails
[05:02] <Mez> when did you update and get these problems
[05:02] <Mez> and when did you update before then ?
[05:02] <Kyral> I'm up to date NOW
[05:02] <Mez> so I can narrow it down
[05:02] <Kyral> I've been updating everyday
[05:02] <Kyral> I just noticed it today because I have been using KDE for the past two days
[05:02] <Mez> doko: ping
[05:02] <Kyral> and it worked then :P
[05:03] <Kyral> brb switching over to Konversation
[05:05] <Kyral> Wierd...they seem to work in KDE...
[05:06] <Kyral> maybe...could it be the Compositors for XFCE and MetaCity acting up?
[05:09] <Drac[Server] > Hi. you're going to hate me for this, but I'm afraid the idiots in #ubuntu will only give me X-based support. How the hell do I adjust the keyboard layout for the console? I need to enable USB keyboard support!
[05:12] <LaserJock> Drac[Server] : I would think "dpkg-reconfigure" might help
[05:13] <Drac[Server] > Yes, but for what?
[05:13] <Drac[Server] > What package?
[05:13] <LaserJock> seems like xorg-server or something like that
[05:14] <Drac[Server] > ...
[05:14] <Drac[Server] > What part of CONSOLE do people not understand?! D:
[05:14] <LaserJock> xorg-xserver
[05:14] <Drac[Server] > I need to change the CONSOLE'S keyboard layour.
[05:14] <LaserJock> locale perhaps then
[05:15] <Drac[Server] > It's xserver-xorg, and that's for X! I don't want to know how to change X's keyboard layout! I want to know how to make the console see my USB keyboard!
[05:15] <infinity> Drac[Server] : Your attitude's probably not helping much, but what you want is dpkg-reconfigure console-data.
[05:15] <Kyral> Thats a hardware detection problem
[05:15] <LaserJock> infinity: ++
[05:15] <infinity> Drac[Server] : Can you please leave the anger at home the next time you feel the urge to seek free support from "idiots"?
[05:16] <Drac[Server] > I've been asking for 30 minutes.
[05:16] <infinity> Drac[Server] : OTOH, if the keyboard isn't working at all, you're likely lacking some hotplug/udev magic to make it go when you plug it in.
[05:16] <Drac[Server] > Everyone keeps telling me that I should reconfigure X.
[05:16] <LaserJock> Drac[Server] : well, honestly that is usually what people want
[05:17] <Drac[Server] > The USB keyboard worked fine when the installer was running. Why doesn't it now?
[05:17] <Drac[Server] > ...
[05:17] <Drac[Server] > I unplugged it, plugged it back in, and it worked...
[05:17] <Kyral> Yanno, I'm gonna leave now before I go BOFH
[05:17] <Drac[Server] > I've been a little bitch about this. Sorry.
[05:18] <LaserJock> Kyral: settle down boy ;-)
[05:18] <Drac[Server] > I'm eager to finish this project.
[05:18] <Drac[Server] > I'm putting an AT machine in a Tandy 1000 case. :D
[05:18] <Kyral> LaserJock: I'm tired and I have an exam tomorrow, and its like 4 days 'til break
[05:18] <Drac[Server] > Thanks for the support. :)
[05:18] <LaserJock> Kyral: maybe you need to go packages something ;-)
[05:19] <LaserJock> hmm, ok then
[05:19] <LaserJock> thanks infinity 
[06:45] <wasabi> So, any AppArmor asperations? :)
[06:50] <Burgundavia> wasabi: ajmitch is the person to talk to 
[06:50] <wasabi> k
[06:52] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: thanks..
[06:52] <wasabi> Heh.
[06:52] <wasabi> I'm reading the docs on it now.
[06:56] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: do I sense some sarcasm?
[06:58] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: yes
[07:00] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: I figured it would be better if you shot him down
[07:02] <wasabi> Heh.
[07:02] <wasabi> So why not, or why not so?
[07:07] <Burgundavia> wasabi: basically because selinux is established and apparmour is not
[07:07] <wasabi> Didn't think SELInux covered the same use cases.
[07:07] <ajmitch> it covers all apparmor does & more
[07:08] <ajmitch> the '& more' part happens to be useful
[07:08] <wasabi> k
[07:08] <wasabi> Well, I'm just excited about the prospect of the distro (ya'll) being able to distribute a profile for each application which defines what it should have access to.
[07:09] <ajmitch> which is what we're doing with selinux & modular policy
[07:09] <wasabi> cool. ;0
[07:12] <ajmitch> just don't expect to see much in dapper
[07:14] <wasabi> Completely different subject:  Anybody aware of a pam module for recursive group memberships?
[07:16] <ajmitch> desrt: broadcom driver working nicely then?
[07:17] <desrt> ajmitch; it's a bit unstable.  my ssh connection seems to die randomly and i have to stop/restart wpa_supplicant and reconnect
[07:17] <desrt> ajmitch; it's been fine for the past 10 mins or so, though
[07:17] <desrt> all told it makes me pretty darn happy
[07:18] <ajmitch> I should pester BenC to get the latest ipw2200 driver in, if possible
[07:18] <ajmitch> should be enough time to get some testing in before kernel freeze
[07:19] <desrt> what is ipw2200?
[07:19] <infinity> Intel Pro Wireless 2200
[07:20] <ajmitch> intel driver, popular in many laptops these days
[07:20] <desrt> gotcha
[07:20] <infinity> (and 2915)
[07:20] <desrt> i have a bad attitude
[07:20] <infinity> Oh!  They released a new stable release of ipw2200.  Interesting.
[07:20] <desrt> i'm very much of the "to hell with freezes, i want new everything" mindset
[07:22] <ajmitch> infinity: that's mainly why I want it, it apparantly fixes a few bugs
[07:23] <infinity> I certainly wouldn't mind it on my 2915 either.
[07:29] <Burgundavia> desrt: you couldn't be part of the that, could you?
[07:29] <desrt> the that?
[07:30] <nictuku> infinity, yeah that was mentioned in the ubuntu-devel list 
[07:50] <joelbryan> will the OpenOffice splash screens be changed in final version?
[07:51] <Burgundavia> joelbryan: nope
[07:51] <Burgundavia> ;)
[07:51] <Gagatan> wasabi: I think the later pam/nss-ldap from padl.com supports recursive group memberships
[07:51] <joelbryan> Burgundavia: why?
[07:52] <Burgundavia> joelbryan: I am kidding
[07:53] <pitti> Good morning
[07:53] <ajmitch> hey pitti 
[07:53] <ajmitch> how's it going?
[07:53] <joelbryan> :-)
[07:53] <joelbryan> look at this, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperArtUserProposals/OpenOfficeSplash
[07:53] <pitti> ajmitch: hi! great :) and you?
[07:53] <ajmitch> still alive, I think
[07:54] <Burgundavia> joelbryan: those look cool
[07:55] <joelbryan> really?! wow
[07:56] <ajmitch> though I'd like it if it was easily selectable, since I don't use brown on my box :)
[07:58] <Lathiat> bottom one is the best (fits the theme best)
[07:58] <Lathiat> personally i like the blue tho..
[07:58] <Lathiat> i noticed ubununtu on "the real hustle" the other day
[07:58] <Burgundavia> oh, where?'
[07:58] <ajmitch> ?
[07:58] <Lathiat> some uk bbc tv show where they go and scam people, then give them ther emoney back and tell them
[07:58] <Lathiat> they did a wifi scam
[07:58] <Lathiat> setting up a faek AP
[07:58] <Lathiat> with fake credit card GW
[07:58] <Lathiat> in episode 3
[07:58] <Lathiat> i think it was ubuntu
[07:58] <Lathiat> had the screensaver dialog
[07:59] <Lathiat> that i only saw in ubuntu
[07:59] <Lathiat> the gnome one from breezy i think it is
[08:01] <joelbryan> yeah, that sux, people are using ubuntu ship-it cd's for spam purposes.
[08:02] <joelbryan> like my friend receive a package mail, with an ubuntu cd and a spam mail.
[08:03] <jdub> joelbryan: was the CD ordered from shipit?
[08:03] <joelbryan> yes
[08:03] <joelbryan> it's hoary 5.04
[08:03] <jdub> joelbryan: what was the 'spam'?
[08:04] <joelbryan> it's about insurance
[08:04] <pitti> hi Huahua 
[08:04] <jdub> joelbryan: did it include a cover letter?
[08:05] <Huahua> hi, pitti 
[08:05] <joelbryan> yeah, I'll ask my friend about it.
[08:06] <joelbryan> I'll tell you every detail about the mail
[08:13] <joelbryan> jdub: I need to contact him if he still got the mail, I only know that it's version 5.04, and a insurance plans.
[08:13] <jdub> joelbryan: thanks
[08:20] <joelbryan> I'm trying to add a theme for the shutdown dialog, what source should I get?
[08:21] <joelbryan> I mean, I will try to add a theme
[08:21] <desrt> joelbryan; gnome-panel
[08:21] <joelbryan> desrt: is gnome-session included too?
[08:21] <desrt> actually, now that you mention it, i'm not sure
[08:21] <desrt> it's one of the two
[08:22] <pitti> hi desrt 
[08:22] <joelbryan> thanks
[08:23] <desrt> hello
[08:23] <desrt> where do you live?
[08:24] <highvoltage> jdub: hi
[08:25] <pitti> *eek*
[08:25] <pitti> desrt: btw, thanks for your unmount dialog - I modified it a bit and put it into nautilus yesterday
[08:26] <desrt> oh.  freakin' awesome.
[08:26] <desrt> gonna be in dapper?
[08:26] <pitti> yes, it was overdue
[08:26] <desrt> you get 3 cool points for that
[08:26] <pitti> desrt: it *is* in dapper :) seb128 will beautify it a bit, but it works
[08:26] <ajmitch> only 3 points?
[08:27] <desrt> ajmitch; i don't want to encourage overinflation
[08:28] <desrt> ajmitch; cool points are worth a lot :)
[08:28] <ajmitch> I need to earn some
[08:29] <desrt> getting muine-shell into main would earn you a couple :)
[08:29] <joelbryan> desrt: how do I see the unmount dialog?
[08:30] <pitti> joelbryan: well, unmount a removable device :)
[08:30] <pitti> joelbryan: it's not actually a 'dialog', just a warning window
[08:30] <ajmitch> desrt: probably too late for that
[08:30] <desrt> pitti; it appears not to have hit the archives yet
[08:31] <desrt> ajmitch; which is why you'd get cool points.  it would be a slightly heroic act.
[08:32] <ajmitch> desrt: and it'd be up to pitti, so he'd deserve the points as well
[08:32] <desrt> it's seriously up to pitti?
[08:32] <pitti> desrt: hm, FTBFS on powerpc...
[08:32] <desrt> i've seen that acronym earlier tonight.  what does it mean?
[08:32] <ajmitch> pitti manages the main inclusion reports
[08:33] <desrt> oh.  this is more suited for universe, i think
[08:33] <joelbryan> that's cool, it's says "Writing data to CD-RW" and there's a pulsating progress bar.
[08:33] <pitti> erm, CD-RW?
[08:33] <infinity> desrt: Fails To Build From Source.
[08:33] <desrt> infinity; a hah
[08:34] <joelbryan> there's just eject, but not unmount?
[08:34] <joelbryan> when I right click in nautilus.
[08:34] <pitti> infinity: 
[08:34] <desrt> pitti; incidentally, i first wrote that dialog on a powerpc
[08:34] <pitti> sh: /dev/null: Permission denied
[08:34] <pitti> infinity: WTF??
[08:34] <jdub> highvoltage: pong
[08:35] <desrt> crw-rw-rw- 1 root root 1, 3 2006-03-02 10:36 /dev/null
[08:35] <pitti> desrt: oh, the code itself is fine, just seems to be a stupid problem on the buildd
[08:35] <desrt> freshly upgraded and rebooted about an hour ago ^^
[08:35] <infinity> pitti: Already given-back.
[08:35] <pitti> infinity: ah, thanks
[08:35] <pitti> infinity: oh ia64, too?
[08:35] <desrt> goodnight guys
[08:35] <infinity> pitti: There's a really subtle bug somewhere in something that occasionally (you'll love this one) breaks out of the buildd chroots and resets permissions on /dev/null in the base system.
[08:35] <desrt> ajmitch; earn your cool points.
[08:36] <pitti> infinity: that sounds cool
[08:36] <pitti> infinity: cprov asked me to modify pkgstriptranslations to copy the tarball out of the chroot
[08:36] <pitti> infinity: so you need to teach me about this one :)
[08:36] <infinity> Uhm, say what?
[08:36] <pitti> infinity: seriously, would it be possible to reenable the sbuild hack to get tarballs exported again?
[08:36] <infinity> Did he know what he was asking? :)
[08:36] <infinity> I didn't DISABLE the hack...
[08:36] <pitti> infinity: I explained it :)
[08:37] <infinity> Let me look at it again.
[08:37] <infinity> (Are the uploaded tarballs not quite cutting it yet?)
[08:37] <pitti> infinity: well, rosetta still has some problems with their import
[08:37] <infinity> Joy.
[08:38] <pitti> infinity: carlos had to completely rewrite the import queue, this needs a review and rollout
[08:38] <pitti> infinity: so I'd just like to have a fallback :)
[08:39] <infinity> pitti: Yeah, uhm, the hack is still there, unmodified...
[08:39] <infinity> pitti: Hasn't changed since the wanna-build days.
[08:39] <jdub> robitaille: posted the dell thing on the fridge - to the front page, too ;)
[08:39] <pitti> hmm, odd
[08:40] <pitti> infinity: any idea why they don't get exported any more?
[08:40] <jdub> anyone tried dapper on top of linux 2.4?
[08:40] <robitaille> jdub: that's great
[08:40] <infinity> pitti: I dunno, but I blame you. :)
[08:40] <infinity> pitti: (looking)
[08:41] <pitti> (and gives him a decent poke in the side for the blame)
[08:42] <infinity> pitti: They stopped exporting right after the last upload, so I dunno... Coincidence? :)
[08:42] <pitti> infinity: 'last upload' of what?
[08:42] <pitti> it stopped on Feb 25
[08:42] <infinity> pitti: pkgstriptranslations
[08:42] <pitti> this might have been the day we switched to the dpkg-distaddfile method
[08:42] <infinity> It was.
[08:43] <pitti> so, the additional .changes entry confuses sbuild?
[08:43] <infinity> At least, if your changelog can be trusted.
[08:43] <pitti> yes, I think it can
[08:43] <infinity> Oh, wait.
[08:43] <infinity> Of course...
[08:44] <infinity> I'll bet our call to export the tarball comes AFTER sbuild moves all the files (referenced in the .changes) from the chroot to the base system.
[08:44] <infinity> Duh.
[08:44] <pitti> sounds plausible at least
[08:45] <infinity> Immediately after, in fact.
[08:45] <infinity> Which would seem to be the correct behaviour, had we wanted to switch completely from method A to method B...
[08:45] <infinity> Which we apparently didn't. :/
[08:46] <pitti> it's not like I wouldn't want to :/
[08:46] <infinity> Right, well I'll just move our hideous hack up about 40 lines, and you'll get them back again.
[08:47] <pitti> infinity: thanks
[08:47] <pitti> hi mpt__ 
[08:47] <mpt__> hi pitti 
[08:48] <Vylar1978> Hi every one
[08:50] <pitti> yes, my dear g-p-m, after telling me 5 times that my battery is charged, I *know* it now
[08:53] <robitaille> hey, tonight my g-p-m didn't tell me that my battery was charged.  I miss having reminders every 30 seconds :)
[08:53] <pitti> unfortunately the fixed version is ftbfs on powerpc - infinity, could you please try a g-b for g-p-m?
[08:53] <ajmitch> robitaille: I only saw it once, I'm so unlucky
[08:53] <zakame> hi all
[08:54] <pitti> hi zakame 
[08:54] <ajmitch> hey zakame 
[08:54] <zakame> hello pitti ajmitch
[08:55] <infinity> pitti: Given-back, though it may be a victim of an underlying library snag... We'll see.
[09:00] <infinity> pitti: Fixed sbuild rolled out, for great translation justice.
[09:00] <pitti> \o/
[09:08] <joelbryan> I can't seems to find where logout is? I tried whereis logout
[09:10] <infinity> joelbryan: It's a shell builtin.
[09:10] <joelbryan> ok
[09:10] <infinity> joelbryan: "help logout"
[09:10] <joelbryan> i thought it was from gnome
[09:11] <Burgundavia> joelbryan: you are talking about the ubuntu specific logout dialog?
[09:11] <joelbryan> yes
[09:11] <infinity> Oh, that's something entirely different. :)
[09:11] <Burgundavia> that is gnome-session, no?
[09:11] <freeflying> pitti: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/34054
[09:11] <Ubugtu> malone bug 34054 in language-support-ko "language-support-ko needs to be depended on scim-gtk2-immodule" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[09:12] <joelbryan> Burgundavia: yes, but it's the old logout dialog.
[09:14] <pitti> freeflying: assigned to me, will fix soon
[09:14] <pitti> hi carlos 
[09:14] <Burgundavia> joelbryan: can you show me a screenshot of the dialog you want?
[09:14] <carlos> pitti: hi
[09:14] <freeflying> pitti: and also language-support-zh 
[09:15] <pitti> freeflying: which bug?
[09:16] <jdub> hrm
[09:16] <jdub> bind comes up after ntpdate
[09:16] <freeflying> pitti: need add the depends on scim-gtk2-immodlue to language-support-zh 
[09:16] <jdub> which hurts for hosts that use local nameserver only
[09:16] <joelbryan> Burgundavia: the new upstream version, with the logout, switch user, lock screen on top, and at the bottom sleep, hibernate, restart, shutdown.
[09:16] <Burgundavia> joelbryan: the single dialog one? That is not upstream, that is ubuntu specific
[09:16] <joelbryan> Burgundavia: and at the very bottom, there is a cancel button.
[09:17] <fabbione> jdub: move ntp-date :)
[09:17] <pitti> freeflying: ah, I see
[09:17] <Burgundavia> joelbryan: yes, Manu cornet develops that. Probably best to chat with him about it (manu on irc)
[09:17] <joelbryan> Burgundavia: what package is affected by that?
[09:18] <freeflying> pitti: actually , an this be included in the install cd 
[09:18] <freeflying> s/an/can
[09:18] <joelbryan> Burgundavia: what package is that?, I can help him.
[09:18] <freeflying> pitti: and put scim-qtimm in kubuntu's install cd 
[09:19] <joelbryan> I think it's a good idea to make the fade-out screen brownish or maroon? what do you think?
[09:19] <joelbryan> s/screen/effects/g
[09:20] <Burgundavia> joelbryan: it is in gnome-session
[09:20] <pitti> freeflying: ok, can you please add that to the bug report?
[09:21] <freeflying> pitti: alright
[09:21] <joelbryan> I compiled the latest gnome-session, but it's the old logout.
[09:21] <Burgundavia> joelbryan: from where? gnome cvs or ubuntu sources?
[09:21] <joelbryan> ubuntu sources
[09:21] <freeflying> pitti: file a new one , or use the existed
[09:22] <joelbryan> manu is not online, I like to talk to him, for making it pretty
[09:22] <pitti> freeflying: just use the existing one for ko
[09:22] <freeflying> pitti: thx
[09:23] <joelbryan> and I like to share this. I'm fascinated about this observation, can you tell me if this has a sense at all, but when I /usr/lib/cat * > /dev/null everything works faster! tried it too in openoffice and firefox.
[09:25] <infinity> joelbryan: You're reading files into memory (then throwing them away), so the disk cache is being seeded and you don't have to re-read from the disk the next time you access it.
[09:25] <infinity> joelbryan: Nothing weird about it.
[09:25] <infinity> joelbryan: As for gnome-session, I suspect you're building it with "make; make install", instead of using the debian packaging scripts (which would apply the debian patches)?
[09:26] <joelbryan> I applied the debian patches
[09:26] <joelbryan> sudo apt-get source packagename does apply the patches automatically.
[09:27] <joelbryan> should it have a patch to cat everything in > /dev/null before GNOME starts up, or a cron job that does that every 30 minutes?
[09:31] <joelbryan> hmm.. i'm working on it right now, using sed, if someone cares for it.
[09:34] <infinity> joelbryan: No, it doesn't apply the patches automatically.
[09:35] <infinity> joelbryan: See the "debian/patches" directory in the source.  If you used "dpkg-buildpackage", those patches would be automatically applied during build.
[09:56] <Burgundavia> pitti: you seen this --> http://blog.fubar.dk/?p=66
[09:57] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: but: is it crack?
[09:58] <Burgundavia> Treenaks: no idea. I trust pitti to tell me that
[09:59] <Burgundavia> seems sane, having less code running as root
[10:09] <jdub> i love dapper.
[10:09] <jdub> fuck those other versions.
[10:09] <jdub> they were crap.
[10:09] <jdub> dapper is the one true ubuntu release.
[10:09] <jdub> we can point at warty and laugh.
[10:10] <jdub> we can also point at warty users and laugh.
[10:10] <jdub> then help them upgrade.
[10:10] <jdub> because we are givers of life.
[10:10] <jdub> and brown.
[10:10] <jdub> we are givers of brown.
[10:10] <seb128> morning jdub :)
[10:10] <seb128> did you get some sleep this week? :)
[10:10] <dholbach> hey Jeff :-))))
[10:11] <Burgundavia> jdub: just to keep people off balance, we shoudl change our colour scheme to green for dapper+1
[10:11] <jdub> seb128: sleep is for the week.
[10:11] <jdub> Burgundavia: funnily enough, i am doing a green theme at this very moment.
[10:11] <seb128> jdub: weak you mean?
[10:12] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: as long as it's not blue and green!
[10:12] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: just straight green
[10:12] <jdub> seb128: no, week.
[10:12] <Tm_T> Mirv: indeed
[10:12] <jdub> seb128: the weekend is for partying, which seldom involves sleep.
[10:12] <seb128> right
[10:13] <Burgundavia> jdub: this green theme. I assume we are talking about an option for dapper, not by default?
[10:13] <pitti> Burgundavia: will look at it later, breakfast now :)
[10:13] <seb128> pitti: morning
[10:13] <dholbach> green is soooo *out*
[10:13] <jdub> seb128: it is a stupid english pun. french puns are always better than english puns, because they involve an element of philosophy not understood by mere english speakers.
[10:13] <seb128> pitti: even in that timezone you are up before me :)
[10:13] <jdub> Burgundavia: i might not even bother packaging it
[10:13] <Tm_T> dholbach: yeah, blue is always in, just look at KDE ;)
[10:13] <jdub> Burgundavia: but then, i might stick it in for fun
[10:13] <seb128> hey vuntz_
[10:14] <Burgundavia> pitti: is 1am here. Need to go to bed my self
[10:14] <jdub> Burgundavia: if people like it enough, it could even go in ubuntu-artwork
[10:14] <jdub> but i doubt it
[10:14] <dholbach> Tm_T: luckily we can have different opinions :)
[10:14] <Tm_T> dholbach: and options )
[10:14] <Burgundavia> jdub: I would love a good green theme for dapper. I am going to sell the idea of green to SILC when I meet with them tomorrow
[10:14] <seb128> jdub: if you are doing it yourself people will LOVE IT
[10:14] <Tm_T> dholbach: best part of it, you can have non-blue KDE ;)
[10:15] <dholbach> Tm_T: oh, i thought that was hardcoded
[10:15] <Tm_T> dholbach: me too
[10:15] <Tm_T> but then I accidentally opened kcontrol ;(
[10:15] <Tm_T> I will always regret that day
[10:16] <jdub> seb128: i was thinking of doing some concept bits and then asking klepas or andreasn to do really slick versions (they are real artistes)
[10:17] <Tm_T> jdub: when you have something ready, share a pic or something, I'm always interested to see different :)
[10:18] <jdub> Tm_T: yeah, i will blog
[10:21] <Kamion> pitti: have you already sorted out switching language-support-* over to the openoffice.org-* world (as opposed to openoffice.org2-*)?
[10:22] <Tm_T> I have something yellow-green-grey thing going on in my desktop: http://www.tm-travolta.net/shots/current.png
[10:28] <adamcasl> is dapper compiled i686 by default? i'm noticing cmov instructions in some of the /usr/bin binaries
[10:28] <adamcasl> because that breaks stuff on via c3's
[10:28] <infinity> Shouldn't be.
[10:28] <infinity> Which binaries?
[10:28] <adamcasl> objdump -D -a /usr/bin/* | grep -i cmov
[10:28] <adamcasl>  808ee7b:       0f 4a 54 89 96          cmovp  0xffffff96(%ecx,%ecx,4),%edx
[10:29] <adamcasl> hmm, now to figure out which one
[10:29] <fabbione> adamcasl: for i in /usr/bin/*; do echo $i && objdump -D -a /usr/bin/* | grep -i cmov; done
[10:29] <fabbione> the one that will have the grep is your binary
[10:29] <fabbione> or
[10:30] <fabbione> adamcasl: for i in /usr/bin/*; do if [ -n "$(objdump -D -a /usr/bin/* | grep -i cmov)" ] ; then echo $i; fi; done
[10:30] <fabbione> ops
[10:30] <fabbione> almost
[10:30] <fabbione> adamcasl: for i in /usr/bin/*; do if [ -n "$(objdump -D -a /usr/bin/$i | grep -i cmov)" ] ; then echo $i; fi; done
[10:30] <fabbione> there
[10:30] <jdub> lamont: ping
[10:30] <fabbione> adamcasl: use the very last one
[10:31] <fabbione>  /usr/bin/a2p
[10:31] <fabbione> there are a bunch
[10:31] <adamcasl> fabbione: thanks
[10:32] <adamcasl> there you go guys, looks like we've got i686 stuff there
[10:32] <fabbione> infinity: change the objdump call to use $i instead of /usr/bin/$i
[10:32] <adamcasl> and it breaks via c3 which sells heavily in asia low cost desktops
[10:32] <siretart> anyone working on bug #30962?
[10:32] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30962 in linux-source-2.6.15 "2G/2G kernels break many applications, including wine and lisp packages." [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30962
[10:32] <mjr> curious
[10:33] <fabbione> siretart: yes. BenC 
[10:33] <adamcasl> is there some way to tell the install to force i586
[10:34] <siretart> ok
[10:34] <infinity> Looks like we need doko for this one.
[10:34] <pitti> re
[10:35] <pitti> Kamion: yes, I did that last Sunday
[10:35] <adamcasl> infinity: cool. well, i'm gonna go. if there's something i can do to help, let me know, i have a c3 inhouse
[10:36] <fabbione> wasn't cmov also in i486 =
[10:36] <fabbione> =
[10:36] <highvoltage> what's the best way to test platform support, is there a wiki page for that?
[10:36] <adamcasl> fabbione: it's an optional extension
[10:36] <highvoltage> or do you just boot and look if it works?
[10:36] <fabbione> adamcasl: hmmmm
[10:36] <fabbione> ok
[10:36] <adamcasl> so via left it out
[10:36] <fabbione> adamcasl: i see.... hmmm
[10:36] <fabbione> adamcasl: are we sure that we don't emulate it in libc6?
[10:37] <infinity> fabbione: No, that's why we have /usr/lib/i686 and /usr/lib/i686/cmov
[10:37] <infinity> fabbione: The latter for machines that support cmov.
[10:37] <joelbryan> Hi devs, check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CacheWarmUp, maybe some interesting stuff.
[10:37] <infinity> I suspect something terribly wrong has gone on with GCC tuning.
[10:38] <fabbione> infinity: but the linker should chose the right one automatically.. like for libc/v9v and libc/ultra3
[10:38] <fabbione> and that's decided according to CPU HW CAP
[10:38] <siretart> yay. mass rebuild the whole archive. sounds like fun!
[10:38] <siretart> :/
[10:38] <infinity> joelbryan: Check out the "readahead" package, we install it by default and it does exactly what you want.
[10:39] <fabbione> adamcasl: can you please run this on one of these via c3? LD_SHOW_AUXV=1 /lib/libc.so.6 --version  | grep AT_HWCAP
[10:39] <infinity> fabbione: Yes, the linker will choose the correct libraries.  Of course, if we're building incorrect binaries, that doesn't help.
[10:39] <fabbione> infinity: yes i agree..
[10:40] <fabbione> is the cmov call only cmov in asm?
[10:41] <fabbione> or there are more variants like fcmovb ?
[10:43] <joelbryan> man that is cool!
[10:48] <jdub> joelbryan: ping
[11:01] <doko> infinity, fabbione: unnice, looking ...
[11:02] <fabbione> doko: if the function is really called  ONLY cmov, than we are fine
[11:02] <fabbione> but if there are variants, like i said.. sucks to rebuild all the archive
[11:02] <fabbione> (or almost)
[11:04] <joelbryan> jdub: he says he can't find the mail.
[11:04] <infinity> doko: For the record, we're building with "-mcpu=pentium4 -march=i486"
[11:04] <infinity> doko: Which, afaik, should definitely not be generating cmov instructions.
[11:05] <joelbryan> I get a WARNING: unsafe ownership on configuration file `/home/joelbryan/.gnupg/gpg.conf' in dpkg-buildpackage
[11:05] <joelbryan> should I export GPG=mygpgkeys?
[11:05] <doko> infinity: you mean -mtune=pentium4 ?
[11:07] <infinity> doko: Err, yes... tune... -mcpu was for gcc-3.3
[11:07] <jdub> joelbryan: really would help if we knew more details - could you ask your friend to email shipit@ubuntu.com and tell them about it?
[11:07] <infinity> doko: gcc-4.0 is called with "-mtune=pentium4 -march=i486"
[11:07] <joelbryan> jdub: ok
[11:08] <infinity> doko: Straight "gcc" and "g++" are called with no tune/arch options, since the cpu/tune thing changed over time and we can't really tell which to use.
[11:18] <joelbryan> I'm using dpkg-buildpackage, but I get a gpg: WARNING: unsafe ownership on configuration file `/home/joelbryan/.gnupg/gpg.conf' - what should I do?
[11:20] <Kinnison> fix the permissions on that file?
[11:24] <joelbryan> Kinnison: or i'll do a -rfakeroot
[11:24] <Kinnison> oh gods, I didn't realise you weren't doing that
[11:25] <Kinnison> sorry, my fingers find it hard to type dpkg-buildpackage on a commandline without adding -rfakeroot automagically
[11:27] <joelbryan> I'm sorry, I didn't know anything about the -rfakeroot option, just browsed it in the internet.
[11:28] <pitti> Kamion: I think poppler is in NEW since the lib got a new soname; can you please ack it? (not very urgent, though)
[11:31] <Robot101> ogra: gnome-screensaver is locking my screen after 10 minutes even when I'm not idle :(
[11:40] <mdz__> infinity: around?
[11:42] <pitti> hey mdz__
[11:51] <Kinnison> mjg59: I'm trying to do this gconftool mungery in g-p-m's postinst, but I can't work out how to tell it to set a systemwide setting
[11:52] <mdz-sprint> pitti: good morning
[11:58] <pitti> Kamion, Riddell: to provide good OOTB input support for Asian languages, we need to put scim and scim-gtk2-immodule (together ~ 850 kB) into ubuntu-desktop, and skim/scim-qtimm (together ~ 1.3 MB) to kubuntu-desktop; do you have objections to that?
[12:00] <sivang> hi all
[12:01] <pitti> hi sivang 
[12:02] <freeflying> hi all can dapper be install from hdd ?
[12:02] <Kamion> pitti: I'm fine with that for Ubuntu
[12:04] <sivang> pitti: hey martin, what's up?
[12:05] <freeflying> Kamion: can dapper support install from hdd
[12:11] <Kamion> freeflying: not really
[12:11] <Kamion> freeflying: but in any case you should look in the installation manual rather than asking me
[12:11] <Kamion> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/install/i386/
[12:12] <freeflying> Kamion: because tmany guys ask me about that ,and they say it can not instal from hdd, so I wanna confirm from you
[12:14] <Kamion> I'm afraid I am very busy at the moment and cannot provide personal support
[12:14] <koke> mvo: I have a suggestion for gai I don't know how to implement by now
[12:14] <koke> It'd be nice to have a better search function
[12:14] <koke> I mean,  sorting results by relevance
[12:15] <koke> if I put "thunder" in the search entry I get thunderbird as last option
[12:15] <Kamion> pitti: poppler isn't in NEW at the moment
[12:15] <pitti> hmm, seb128, where is it? ^
[12:15] <jdub> koke: maybe we should beaglise gai ;)
[12:15] <pitti> seb128: it built everywhere, but the debs are not in the archive
[12:16] <seb128> pitti: don't ask me
[12:17] <koke> jdub: someday beagle will be able to find anything in the house, but it's not the moment by now ;P
[12:17] <pitti> Kinnison: could you please have a look what happened to poppler 0.5.1-0ubuntu1? it built everywhere yesterday, but no debs in the archive. it *should* be in NEW, but it isn't
[12:17] <seb128> pitti: archive has 0.5.1 sources and no binary, I would say they are waiting in NEW if you ask me
[12:18] <pitti> seb128: right, that's what I thought, too
[12:18] <Kinnison> pitti: what suite?
[12:18] <pitti> Kinnison: dapper/main
[12:18] <Kinnison> hmm
[12:18] <ogra> Robot101, generally or only after suspend ?
[12:18] <seb128> Kinnison: some soname change over previous version
[12:18] <seb128> Kinnison: so dunno where new binaries go by default
[12:19] <Robot101> ogra: hm, this was after a suspend/resume
[12:19] <ogra> Robot101, can you follow up on bug 33539 ?
[12:19] <Ubugtu> malone bug 33539 in gnome-screensaver "doesn't seem to detect activity after resuming from suspend" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33539
[12:19] <ogra> i suspect we have a communication problem between g-p-m and g-s-s
[12:20] <ogra> g-p-m seems to ignore if g-s-s isnt locked and suspends the screen anyway ...
[12:20] <ogra> Kinnison, ? ^^
[12:21] <Mithrandir> ogra: g-p-m wasn't running, so should be irrelevant
[12:21] <Kinnison> ogra: g-p-m only does the lock-screen action if g-ss signals it to go idle
[12:21] <ogra> Mithrandir, i heard this very often recently ...
[12:21] <Mithrandir> ogra: dude, I filed 33539
[12:22] <ogra> Mithrandir, i heard very often that it happened and that it was solved through killing g-p-m, might not be exactly your bug but thats what i see very often
[12:22] <Mithrandir> sure, but 33539 has nothing to do with g-p-m
[12:22] <Mithrandir> unless you're accusing it of being psychic or something. :-)
[12:23] <ogra> Robot101, so please file a separate bug then ...
[12:24] <Kinnison> pitti: they all got rejected during accept phase
[12:24] <Kinnison> pitti: exception: 'Description'
[12:24] <pitti> seb128: (just kidding *hug*)
[12:24] <Robot101> ogra: er, what makes you think that my bug *is* due to g-p-m when Mithrandir's isn't?
[12:25] <Robot101> ogra: surely the simpler explanation is just that g-s-s is broken at detecting idleness? :P
[12:25] <ogra> Robot101, follow up there or open a new one as you think it is related *sigh*
[12:26] <seb128> pitti: iz gtk bog? :)
[12:26] <MrFaber> hi all
[12:26] <ogra> it apparently happens only after suspend, so it must be suspend related ...
[12:26] <MrFaber> Does anyone useing module assistant?
[12:26] <Mithrandir> Robot101: I don't know about your system, but I experience the bug independent of g-p-m.  If you only see it with g-p-m, it's another bug, I suspect.
[12:27] <ogra> according to many people who had it is disappears after killing g-p-m
[12:27] <Robot101> ogra: yes, but it can be broken inside of itself, maybe to do with the clock skipping or something, without needing to interact with g-p-m to become broken :P
[12:27] <Robot101> Mithrandir: I've not stopped g-p-m to determine whether it is or not
[12:27] <Mithrandir> Robot101: g-p-m stopped all by itself for me. :-P
[12:27] <ogra> Robot101, so if it occurs and g-p-m is running, please chack if killing it fixes it ...
[12:29] <Kinnison> pitti: Is it possible that those binaries lack 'Description' control files?
[12:30] <Robot101> ogra: doing so now
[12:30] <Kamion> +Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}
[12:30] <Kamion> +       Description: PDF rendering library
[12:30] <Kamion> broken control file
[12:31] <Kinnison> pitti: In fact, libpoppler1 lacks a Description, thus the upload was rejected
[12:31] <Kinnison> Kamion: star
[12:31] <ogra> Robot101, thanks 
[12:32] <Kinnison> Kamion: do you have problems with your livecd test machine saying "no space left on device" when it clearly has over 100 megs of free ram?
[12:32] <Kamion> Kinnison: it does seem to run out unconscionably early
[12:32] <Kamion> look at 'df /'
[12:32] <Kinnison> Kamion: it seems 320 megs isn't enough for compiling etc
[12:32] <Kinnison> Kamion: which is really annoying because if I give it 512 megs, my host machine runs like a sedated dead dog being pulled backwards
[12:33] <Kinnison> At this rate, I'm gonna have to expense a 1G SODIMM
[12:33] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: tmpfs-es will only use half your total memory.
[12:33] <Kamion> does something in between work?
[12:33] <Robot101> grrr
[12:33] <Robot101> now its not happening
[12:34] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: Erm, I want it to use the swap I provided it with
[12:34] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: any way for it to do that?
[12:34] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: it should do that automatically, I thought.
[12:34] <Kinnison> well it's not
[12:34] <Kinnison> this is most irritating
[12:35] <Kinnison> that'll make things easier
[12:35] <Kinnison> seb128: how do I set a systemwide gconf setting from a postinst?
[12:36] <pitti> Kamion: can you please promote scim-gtk2-immodule to main so that I can update the metapackages?
[12:36] <Kamion> pitti: I need to wait for cprov to get up before I can use change-override.py, I'm afraid
[12:36] <pitti> Kamion: ah, I see
[12:36] <Kamion> it's still pointing to emperor and I don't have write access to the file in question
[12:36] <ogra> Robot101, i wont fix it today :) take your time to reproduce it ;)
[12:36] <Kamion> although it's fixed in infinity's branch
[12:37] <seb128> Kinnison: what do you mean?
[12:37] <Kinnison> seb128: in g-p-m's postinst, I need to do some prodding of the host machine and decide whether or not to enable suspend to ram
[12:37] <Kinnison> seb128: having decided, I need to set a gconf key which will be picked up in the user session
[12:38] <seb128> ah
[12:38] <seb128> Kinnison: modify the schemas before it's registred?
[12:39] <sivang> can anyone remind me how I can "detach" from an xdmcp login so the remote desktop wil continue running and I can go back to my local one?
[12:39] <seb128> Kinnison: the postinst does the schemas registration which have the default values for the keys for the app
[12:39] <sivang> (I recall there was a hot key combination)
[12:39] <Robot101> sivang: do you just mean switching VT's to the local session?
[12:39] <Kinnison> seb128: yuck, you're seriously advocating futzing with the schema?
[12:40] <Kinnison> seb128: there's no better way?
[12:40] <seb128> Kinnison: there is plenty of ways
[12:40] <seb128> Kinnison: you can use a .gconf-default too
[12:41] <Kinnison> how does that come into play?
[12:41] <seb128> Kinnison: or you can set you key with a call to gconftool-2 --set
[12:41] <sivang> Robot101: sort of, but getting back to my local GDM/ XScreenSaver lock screen :)
[12:41] <Kinnison> seb128: running gconftool-2 --set as root doesn't seem to set a systemwide key, but rather root's key
[12:43] <seb128> Kinnison: you need to use --direct
[12:45] <seb128> Kinnison: gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/var/lib/gconf/defaults --type ... --set ...
[12:45] <ogra> maswan, what was the url with the iso download stats on teh .se mirror ? (i tend to loose it)
[12:46] <Lathiat> www.acc.umu.se
[12:46] <Kinnison> seb128: doesn't seem to have been noticed by my session, should it be?
[12:46] <Lathiat> should be able to find it from there
[12:46] <Lathiat> http://www.acc.umu.se/technical/statistics/ftp/index.html.en
[12:46] <jono_> hey
[12:47] <ogra> Lathiat, ta
[12:48] <infinity> mdz-sprint: I'm vaguely around now.
[12:50] <MrFaber_> Does anyone have used module assistant in dapper?
[12:51] <mdz-sprint> infinity: sabdfl is asking for quickfile, offline (if not built in in 1.5), and typeahead find thunderbird extensions to be included by default in ubuntu
[12:53] <mvo> koke: hello, sorry for the lag. what idea for g-a-i?
[12:53] <infinity> mdz-sprint: Offline is builtin, typaheadfind is in main (does he want it in the main package instead of as an extension, then?), and I have no idea about quickfile.
[12:54] <Mithrandir> I don't think quickfile is packaged.
[12:54] <koke> mvo: I've written it before
[12:54] <infinity> mdz-sprint: Speaking of "on by default" extensions, I wouldn't mind adding "redirect" (UNIX-style bouncing), since it's the first thing I ask people to install to debug broken email. :)
[12:55] <infinity> mdz-sprint: Though I'd be fine with a FF exception to package it and get it in the archive, having it builtin might confuse some users.
[12:55] <mdz-sprint> infinity: please find out about quickfile; that's one that mark funded, I believe
[12:55] <mdz-sprint> if typeahead find is already packaged, perhaps adding it as a dependency would be the right thing
[12:55] <infinity> Ahh, indeed he has funded it, according to http://www.paultomlin.com/projects/mozilla/thunderbird/quickfile/
[12:56] <infinity> mdz-sprint: Well, it's built from the main source package, so if we want it as a dependency, we may as well just have it in the package.
[12:56] <infinity> mdz-sprint: Though, the behavior is irritating enough (to some) to justify it being a seperate package, IMO...
[12:56] <infinity> (ie: I don't like it and don't have it installed)
[12:57] <infinity> mdz-sprint: quickfile's not had a release since early last year, I doubt it supports tbird 1.5... But I can give it a spin tomorrow.
[12:58] <slomo_> infinity: two of my uploads from yesterday are not in the archives yet although they built fine hours ago... known problem?
[12:58] <infinity> mdz-sprint: Oh, nevermind, he claims it works on 1.5... I'll spin it tomorrow and see about packaging it.
[12:58] <mdz-sprint> infinity: oh, it's the same source? hmm
[12:58] <mdz-sprint> infinity: I'm pretty sure mark is using it with 1.5 today
[12:59] <infinity> mdz-sprint: Yeah, I assumed as much, hence my confusion until I found the comment about "updating the installer to support 1.5"
[12:59] <infinity> mdz-sprint: Anyhow, I'll give it a spin as a package tomorrow and see about including it.
[01:00] <Mithrandir> infinity: it definitively works on 1.5; I've used it.
[01:00] <infinity> mdz-sprint: Would Mark be happy with Recommends as a strong enough way to get the "default extensions" on people's desktops without pissing people like me off who might not want them? :)
[01:00] <infinity> Mithrandir: Cool.
[01:00] <Mithrandir> infinity: very useful for having M-q as a quick way to move junk to my spam folder. :-P
[01:00] <infinity> slomo_: How many hours ago did they build fine?
[01:01] <infinity> slomo_: The publisher cycle isn't the fastest thing around, but if it's actually not publishing anything, cprov would like to hear about it, I'm sure.
[01:01] <slomo_> infinity: one of them more than 12 hours ago, the other > 8 hours
[01:01] <jono_> are we in UI freeze now?
[01:03] <ogra> jono_, tomorrow
[01:04] <jono_> ogra, ahh cool
[01:04] <mdz-sprint> jono_: wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[01:04] <jono_> the splash screen cracks me up
[01:04] <jono_> mdke, cheers :)
[01:04] <jono_> oops
[01:04] <jono_> mdz-sprint, cheers :)
[01:04] <jono_> mdz-sprint, where is the sprint at?
[01:05] <mdz-sprint> London
[01:06] <jono_> mdz-sprint, ahhh cool
[01:07] <MrFaber_> Does anyone useing debian module-assistant in dapper or has used it?
[01:08] <tepsipakki> MrFaber_: works with lirc-modules
[01:08] <seb128> Kinnison: sorry, network issue
[01:08] <seb128> I was saying
 Kinnison: you need to restart gconfd-2
 a sighup should be enough
 Kinnison: other way we have the .gconf-default stuff now. you put package.gconf-defaults with "/apps/your_app/a_key value" to your debian directory, and it's installed to /usr/share/gconf/defaults, dh_gconf has the magic to register it and it's used before the upstream values
 Kinnison: we do use that for CDD
[01:09] <torkel> MrFaber_: and for openafs-modules
[01:09] <infinity> mdz-sprint: I need to head to bed.  I'll make a note to package quickfile tomorrow and then ping you/Mark about where we want to go from there, alright?
[01:10] <mdz-sprint> infinity: good, thanks
[01:10] <MrFaber_> tepsipakki, doesn work with nvidia, fglrx and loop-aes
[01:10] <MrFaber_> I have only tested it with loop-aes but another one with nvidia and fglrx
[01:10] <MrFaber_> always the same error
[01:11] <MrFaber_> tepsipakki, torkel in dapper?
[01:11] <MrFaber_> In Breezy everything works fine, but not in dapper.
[01:11] <torkel> MrFaber_: yes
[01:12] <MrFaber_> torkel, a lirc-modules in repository?
[01:12] <MrFaber_> *are
[01:12] <tepsipakki> MrFaber: yes. why don't you use the nvidi/fglrx-modules provided by dapper?
[01:12] <tepsipakki> +a
[01:13] <MrFaber_> I have no problem with them only with loop-aes
[01:13] <MrFaber_> a friend of mine has tested it with this one
[01:13] <torkel> MrFaber_: I have only tried with openafs but it worked when I upgraded to the 17.2X kernel, and rebuilt the openafs modules
[01:13] <MrFaber_> testing now the lirc modules in dapper
[01:13] <MrFaber_> doesn't work but not the same error
[01:14] <MrFaber_> I am useing "m-a a-i lirc-modules
[01:14] <MrFaber_> "
[01:14] <tepsipakki> I'm wondering, what would it need to make "official" lirc-modules packages for the current kernel? something like the resctricted-modules is..
[01:15] <MrFaber_> torkel, ok, now testing openafs
[01:16] <MrFaber_> torkel, how do you build them?
[01:18] <MrFaber_> torkel, openafs seems to work
[01:19] <MrFaber_> the first module in dapper
[01:19] <torkel> MrFaber_: fakeroot module-assistat -t -u /scratch/afs build openafs
[01:19] <MrFaber_> that works for me
[01:20] <MrFaber_> torkel, can yo please test loop-aes if you have dapper?
[01:20] <MrFaber_> sudo m-a a-i loop-aes
[01:20] <MrFaber_> or your method, don't know if it works always
[01:20] <MrFaber_> yes, openafs works fine
[01:28] <torkel> MrFaber_: I don't have the kernel-source installed and I'm a bit short of time to fiddle with it to much right now. Sorry
[01:28] <MrFaber_> torkel, np
[01:28] <MrFaber_> thanks
[01:28] <MrFaber_> torkel, btw a funny thing is that you can create loop-aes in debian sid without source, only with headers, but not in ubuntu
[01:29] <torkel> MrFaber_: with the same versions of loop-aes and m-a in both distributions?
[01:30] <MrFaber_> nomeata, different I think
[01:30] <MrFaber_> *no
[01:34] <torkel> MrFaber_: It might be an idea to try to build the debian version on ubuntu and see if that works
[01:34] <Kamion> pitti: scim-gtk2-immodule done for next publisher run
[01:34] <pitti> thank you
[01:34] <MrFaber_> torkel, that could be a temporary solution
[01:35] <ogra> Kamion, can you also do the missing bits for schooltool (they are approved by pitti) ... 
[01:35] <MrFaber_> torkel, loop-aes in debian sid is 3.1.c and in dapper 3.1b
[01:35] <Kamion> ogra: nothing in anastacia mentions schooltool
[01:36] <ogra> Kamion, python-mechanize and python-clientform
[01:36] <ogra> err ... clientform and pullparser 
[01:37] <ogra> mechanize is only blocked by one of them ...
[01:37] <janimo> Kamion, don't forget the xfce bits ;)
[01:38] <Kamion> janimo: currently blocked on a mail discussion about implications for Canonical support on having stuff we don't support in main
[01:38] <Kamion> I'll deal with it as soon as possible *after* that discussion has completeed
[01:38] <janimo> Kamion,ok
[01:41] <ogra> Kamion, oh, and i just see python2.4-twisted-web2 isnt promoted yet as well (thought that was in already)...
[01:41] <Kamion> ogra: python-mechanize and python-clientform promoted; python-pullparser is not mentioned in anastacia output
[01:41] <MrFaber_> torkel, yes, debian sid loop-aes package works in dapper
[01:41] <MrFaber_> so it is no fault of the module-assistant
[01:42] <Kamion> ogra: twisted-web2 done too
[01:42] <ogra> thanks :)
[01:45] <Riddell> pitti: that's fine for kubuntu
[01:46] <Riddell> pitti: qtparted is ready for main review when you can, so we can get espresso kde onto the cd
[01:46] <pitti> Riddell: alright; I committed the necessary bits into the seeds; ogra or I will build new metapackages after the next publisher run
[01:46] <pitti> Riddell: ok, doing right now
[01:49] <MrFaber_> torkel, or anyone else, how to contact the loop-aes-source package builder?
[01:50] <torkel> MrFaber_: file a bug? and/or try #ubuntu-motu as it is a package in universe
[01:57] <pitti> Riddell: qtparted approved
[01:58] <Riddell> pitti: thanks much
[01:58] <Riddell> doko: do you know where the openoffice splash screen is?
[02:00] <doko> Riddell: I cannot make an KDE specific one
[02:00] <Riddell> doko: we know
[02:00] <Riddell> but that's not what I asked :)
[02:00] <Kamion> Riddell: and qtparted promoted
[02:01] <Riddell> Kamion: thanks, I'll put kde-espresso in the seed
[02:02] <doko> Riddell: I know
[02:02] <Riddell> doko: so... do you know where it is?
[02:02] <Riddell> is it only in the source?
[02:03] <doko> Riddell: sure, it's in the source
[02:03] <MrFaber_> torkel, I have made a bug report five weeks ago or something like that
[02:03] <MrFaber_> Toadstool, but I am testing the channel, thanks
[02:06] <doko> Riddell: that was all?
[02:06] <Riddell> doko: where in the source?
[02:07] <doko> ooo-build/src
[02:24] <ogra> mdz-sprint, ping ... 
[02:43] <joelbryan> Hi, I successfully implimented a shutdown logo, where will I send my modifications?
[02:45] <HiddenWolf> joelbryan: you can ask in #dapper-look I guess. :)
[02:45] <ogra> joelbryan, or file a bug and attach the patch
[02:47] <joelbryan> how do I make a patch?
[02:48] <MrFaber_> cu all
[02:49] <lamont> jdub: ack - but running out the door momentarily
[02:50] <lamont> jdub: go ahead and ramble on in /query - I'll be back on in 45-60 minutes, and will see it then.  meetings much of today, so spotty connectivity.
[02:50] <jdub> lamont: wanted to ask about potential postfix bug, if i don't remember when you get back
[02:50] <jdub> ok
[02:50] <lamont> ok
[02:51] <lamont> later
[02:55] <fabbione> lamont: one sec.. still around?
[02:55] <fabbione> lamont: never mind..
[03:03] <ogra> mdz-sprint, !
[03:05] <mdz-sprint> ogra: ?
[03:06] <ogra> mdz-sprint, could you take a look at bug 33732 ?
[03:06] <Ubugtu> malone bug 33732 in initscripts "initscripts postinst should respect administrator settings and not overwrite changes in rcS.d" [Normal,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33732
[03:07] <ogra> mdz-sprint, i'm not sure what to do, Keabuk told me he''ll reject it again if i'll repoen, but i dont think we should release this way
[03:07] <Keybuk> when did I say I'd reject it again? ...
[03:08] <ogra> when we talked last 
[03:08] <Keybuk> no I didn't
[03:08] <Keybuk> I said I didn't think it was a bug, I didn't say I'd play reopen/reject tennis
[03:08] <ogra> then i did get you wrong ... that how i understood you ... sorry, my fault then
[03:08] <Keybuk> I still don't think it's a bug though
[03:08] <ogra> i do
[03:09] <Keybuk> it's far more important that everyone's dapper machine boots, even if they've previously fiddled with the boot sequence imo
[03:09] <ogra> if they did that, they must have skills to do it 
[03:09] <ogra> i dont want any fschk stuff in a netbooting system ...
[03:09] <Keybuk> if ltsp mucks around with init scripts, it has to do it on install as initscripts will create the symlinks
[03:10] <Keybuk> so it also has to do it on upgrade, surely?
[03:10] <ogra> it does it on install of the client chroot
[03:10] <pitti> mdz-sprint: I would like to upload a new source package which provides locale packages for tbird 1.5; technically a new upstream version, so I'd like to get formal approval (the old locale packages can be removed, they don't work anyway)
[03:10] <Keybuk> so can't that also do it on upgrade of the client chroot?
[03:10] <ogra> upgrades should only be chroot /ltsproot apt-get dist-upgrade and not break the setup
[03:11] <ogra> i wont write an upgrade tool ... 
[03:11] <Keybuk> is it an install tool that changes the symlinks then?
[03:11] <ogra> the biggest advantage our ltsp has over all others is the easy upgradeability 
[03:11] <Keybuk> I assumed from your description that it was a script postinst
[03:11] <ogra> we'll be in the redhat camp if you need a tool
[03:11] <ogra> your postinst ...
[03:11] <ogra> not mine :)
[03:12] <Keybuk> what *removes* the symlinks?
[03:12] <Lathiat> how can i tell why an install failed? im trying kubutnu daily and it does "Setting up kubunut-dekstop'.. and then "WARNING: configuration pkgsel failed with error code 1
[03:12] <Keybuk> initscripts postinst will create all those symlinks
[03:12] <Lathiat> postinst kubuntu-desktop fialed or something?
[03:12] <Keybuk> so what in ltsp removes them again?
[03:12] <Kamion> Lathiat: look further back
[03:12] <Kamion> or post the entire /var/log/syslog somewhere that I can see it
[03:12] <ogra> Keybuk:
[03:12] <ogra>     for link in $RC_DIR; do
[03:12] <ogra>         if [ ! $(echo $link|grep ^K) ] ; then
[03:12] <ogra>             name=$(echo $link|sed s/^[S,K,0-9] *//g)
[03:12] <ogra>             printf -v seq_number %.2s $(echo $link|sed s/[a-z,\.,S,K,-] *//g)
[03:12] <ogra>             if [ ! README = $name ] ; then
[03:12] <ogra>                 chroot $ROOT update-rc.d -f $name remove 2>&1 >/dev/null
[03:12] <ogra>                 chroot $ROOT update-rc.d $name stop $seq_number $suffix . 2>&1 >/dev/null
[03:12] <Lathiat> how can i get the syslog out of the installer environment?
[03:12] <ogra>             fi
[03:12] <ogra>         fi
[03:12] <ogra>     done
[03:13] <Lathiat> wonder if scp is installed in the chroot now
[03:13] <Kamion> Lathiat: go back to main menu, select "Save debug logs"
[03:13] <Keybuk> ogra: where's that code?
[03:13] <Kamion> Lathiat: or anna-install openssh-client-udeb outside the chroot
[03:13] <mjg59> Kamion: mdz-sprint: I'd be happy moving to the new ipw2200 release. They've been good at avoiding regressions, and for the people the firmware restarting bug hits the machine is basically unusable.
[03:13] <Kamion> (to get scp)
[03:13] <mdz-sprint> ogra: ltsp should deal with the init stuff at boot time in order to handle the chroot being upgraded
[03:13] <Lathiat> whoah
[03:13] <ogra> Keybuk, ltsp-build-client in ltsp-server
[03:13] <Lathiat> it can start a web server
[03:13] <Lathiat> wth is that running?
[03:13] <ogra> mdz-sprint, if all works as documented there is no need
[03:13] <Kamion> Lathiat: it's a web server in busybox sh
[03:13] <Keybuk> ogra: ok, so it's an "install tool" then; I assumed you'd put that in the ltsp postinst or something
[03:13] <Kamion> don't ask :)
[03:13] <mdz-sprint> pitti: tbird locale packages -> fine
[03:14] <ogra> Keybuk, its the bottsrap for the client chroot 
[03:14] <Kamion> well, sh and nc
[03:14] <mdz-sprint> ogra: ltsp shouldn't use update-rc.d for this
[03:14] <ogra> mdz-sprint, update-rc.d guarantees that symlinks with a K are not touched ...
[03:14] <ogra> if we break that behavior...
[03:14] <Keybuk> ogra: you'd still get the extra init scripts added though
[03:14] <Lathiat> seems to be a bunch of errors relate dto bluez-cups/cups
[03:15] <mdz-sprint> Keybuk: can you explain what the issue is which risks the system not booting properly?
[03:15] <ogra> Keybuk, i just dont want the ones re enabled that i just disabled
[03:15] <ogra> since that guaranteed behavior ...
[03:15] <Keybuk> mdz-sprint: people who've moved around init scripts to try and make their boot faster.  if we tested for the exact numeric existance of a script first, and only moved it if it wasn't already moved/removed, then that user would end up with a practically random order boot which would likely not work
[03:15] <Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/syslog
[03:16] <Lathiat> still uploading hold a sec
[03:16] <ogra> if it changed we should tell that in the manpage instead of giving a not working example how to disable system initscripts
[03:16] <Lathiat> done
[03:17] <ogra> many users rely on that behavior though ...
[03:17] <Keybuk> ogra: initscripts postinst has *always* done this
[03:17] <ogra> Keybuk, it doesnt in debian 
[03:17] <Keybuk> ogra: damn well does
[03:17] <mdz-sprint> ogra: this is a bit of a special case; we've reorganized the boot process, these are fundamental system scripts that the user should never need to customize
[03:17] <Keybuk> the only change I made was to the version in the if header
[03:17] <Keybuk> every time Debian move initscripts around, they use remove/install
[03:17] <ogra> mdz-sprint, but currently it will leave me with a lot of useless scripts in a customized setup ...
[03:18] <Lathiat> Mar  8 22:00:23 in-target: Setting up cupsys (1.1.99.b1.r4929-0ubuntu3) ...
[03:18] <Lathiat> Mar  8 22:00:23 debconf: Obsolete command TITLE Configuring cupsys called
[03:18] <Lathiat> i assume thats the culprit
[03:18] <Lathiat> Mar  8 22:00:24 in-target: adduser: The group `scanner' does not exist.
[03:18] <Lathiat> Mar  8 22:00:24 in-target: dpkg: error processing cupsys (--configure):
[03:18] <ogra> as i said before, netbooting shouldnt have any fsck running on boot ...
[03:18] <ogra> for example ...
[03:18] <ogra> ltsp only uses two of the rcS scripts in that list
[03:19] <Keybuk> why not?
[03:19] <Keybuk> you can't fsck an NFS root or tmpfs, so that script should be a no-op
[03:19] <sabdfl> Keybuk: because ;-0
[03:19] <ogra> what for do i need do do a fsck in a nfs mounte root ? 
[03:19] <mjg59> Kinnison: http://www.gnome.org/learn/admin-guide/latest/ch01s05.html
[03:19] <mdz-sprint> ogra: this is why I left the init scripts alone in the first place; the only reason you're doing this is to make the clients boot faster
[03:19] <Keybuk> it'll just exit 0 after doing nothing
[03:19] <mdz-sprint> ogra: it doesn't break anything
[03:19] <mjg59> sabdfl: Are we supposed to be trying to support Centrino duo laptops this time round?
[03:19] <Kinnison> mjg59: yep, done that now thanks
[03:20] <sabdfl> mjg59: yes
[03:20] <mjg59> Kinnison: Cool
[03:20] <ogra> mdz-sprint, and to avoid tons of error messages on boot because of a readonly filesystem
[03:20] <mjg59> sabdfl: Ok. In that case, something to test the ipw3945 driver on would probably be helpful
[03:20] <mdz-sprint> mjg59: that ipw2200 proposal sounds familiar; didn't we endure a painful upstream update in hopes of fixing firmware errors already?
[03:20] <ogra> mdz-sprint, its ugly and breaks my dapper goal ...
[03:20] <ogra> mdz-sprint, but thats not the point ...
[03:20] <mjg59> mdz-sprint: Uhm. Not that I recall. But quite possibly - there's been several sources of them.
[03:20] <mdz-sprint> ogra: there are much simpler ways of avoiding those error messages
[03:21] <ogra> mdz-sprint, my point is that we have clear examples in the documentation we ship and reality doesnt match at all
[03:21] <mjg59> mdz-sprint: The upgrade is a matter of updating the driver and adding the new firmware to the kernel image, so it's not insanely painful
[03:21] <sabdfl> mjg59: i've got an x60 on order (at leastI think i do but lenovo are not being helpful)
[03:21] <mjg59> sabdfl: Ok - any idea if it's likely to turn up in a sensible timeframe?
[03:21] <mjg59> We should possibly just add the driver and hope...
[03:21] <sabdfl> mjg59: that's what they're being unhelpful about
[03:21] <Keybuk> ogra: ??
[03:21] <mjg59> sabdfl: Ah
[03:21] <ogra> mdz-sprint, i can live with that breakage in ltsp, but its an important issue that people looking at the manpage also get the right info imho
[03:21] <Keybuk> documentation says
[03:21] <Keybuk>        A common system administration error is to delete the  links  with  the
[03:21] <Keybuk>        thought that this will "disable" the service, i.e., that this will pre
[03:21] <Keybuk>        vent the service from being started.  However, if all links  have  been
[03:21] <Keybuk>        deleted  then  the  next  time  the  package is upgraded, the packages
[03:21] <Keybuk>        postinst script will run update-rc.d  again  and  this  will  reinstall
[03:21] <Keybuk>        links  at  their factory default locations.
[03:21] <sabdfl> mjg59: we have a good relationship with intel, we could ask them to test
[03:22] <mjg59> sabdfl: True
[03:22] <mdz-sprint> ogra: what are you proposing that we do instead?
[03:22] <ogra> Keybuk,     Example of a command for disabling a system initialization-and-shutdown script:
[03:22] <ogra>           update-rc.d -f foobar remove
[03:22] <ogra>           update-rc.d foobar stop 45 S .
[03:22] <mjg59> sabdfl: Oh, wireless works on the Mac now
[03:22] <Keybuk> ogra: that's an example for the *postinst*
[03:22] <ogra> mdz-sprint, at least fix the manpage
[03:22] <mdz-sprint> ogra: you're exaggerating a bit about the documentation; this is true in general but there are exceptions
[03:22] <Keybuk> ogra: you don't use update-rc.d as a sysadmin
[03:22] <sabdfl> mjg59: nice. what's the box like, generally?
[03:22] <mjg59> I'm working with HP so we can try to get a bootloader, but once that's sorted we ought to be able to ship
[03:22] <mjg59> sabdfl: Fairly well made, impressively fast
[03:23] <sabdfl> v cool
[03:23] <mdz-sprint> my X is fucked, brb
[03:23] <ogra> Keybuk, no matter how i make the S links K links, your postinst will revert my change
[03:23] <mjg59> You can have it back in a couple of weeks, and it can stop cluttering my living room
[03:23] <ogra> Keybuk, and *i* use update-rc.d in scripts ...
[03:23] <Keybuk> ogra: well, yes. but it's the Debian postinst, please; not mine
[03:23] <Keybuk> I didn't spuriously do it this way, and have largely done it the way you suggest in other packages
[03:24] <ogra> Keybuk, its not the one used in sarge, i didnt look at sid
[03:24] <Lathiat> Kamion: ping?
[03:25] <Keybuk> ogra: sarge one calls -f ... remove
[03:25] <ogra> hmm, where did i look at then :(
[03:26] <Keybuk> I think the reason they do it is also that initscripts doesn't call update-rc.d
[03:26] <Keybuk> (to add the scripts)
[03:26] <Kamion> Lathiat: yes?
[03:26] <Lathiat> Kamion: can you take a look at my syslog? im fairly sure its the cupsys install error?
[03:27] <Kamion> Lathiat: yes, it is
[03:27] <Lathiat> ok, cheers
[03:28] <Lathiat> is that known already?
[03:28] <Kamion> Lathiat: no
[03:28] <Lathiat> ok, i'll take a look
[03:28] <Kamion> Lathiat: I'm going to bet that you were reusing an old /home partition
[03:28] <Lathiat> Kamion: nope, clean disk
[03:28] <Kamion> Lathiat: or perhaps you installed in expert mode and opted not to create a user
[03:28] <Lathiat> nope
[03:29] <Kamion> come on, help me out here, anything unusual about your install?
[03:29] <Lathiat> nope
[03:29] <Kamion> FAT32 /home?
[03:29] <Lathiat> nope
[03:29] <Lathiat> bgi fat / ext34
[03:29] <Lathiat> ext3
[03:29] <Lathiat> on a freshly created vmware so its empty as
[03:30] <Treenaks> ext34
[03:30] <Treenaks> when will that be?
[03:30] <Treenaks> :P
[03:30] <Lathiat> its now
[03:30] <Kamion> oh, I see, user-setup-apply doesn't run until prebaseconfig
[03:30] <Lathiat> im so hard core
[03:30] <Lathiat> im bleeding edge
[03:30] <Kamion> whoopsie
[03:30] <Kamion> please file a bug on user-setup saying that user-setup-apply should be moved to post-base-installer
[03:30] <rob^^^> "Ubuntu is now the most popular desktop distribution on Dell PCs, it may not be a year from now." <-- hrmm
[03:32] <Keybuk> rob^^^: source?
[03:32] <Lathiat> Kamion: assign it to you?
[03:32] <rob^^^> http://desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html quoting Michael Dell
[03:32] <rob^^^> I did not know their pre-shipment imaging would do custom-configs if Linux
[03:33] <Kamion> Lathiat: yes
[03:33] <Kamion> thanks
[03:34] <segfault> kamion: Some strings in the post-installation of Ubuntu are untranslated, how can i translate that? Do i have to wait until Rosetta publishes it? Those strings are: Preparing PACKAGE, Configuring PACKAGE, Installed PACKAGE and so on.
[03:35] <segfault> that progress bar after the first reboot.
[03:35] <Keybuk> rob^^^: if it's from Michael himself, that's damned cool :)
[03:35] <Kamion> segfault: you're talking about breezy; that progress bar has gone away in dapper
[03:35] <Kamion> segfault: I'm afraid there's no way to make Rosetta translations affect the installer short of new uploads
[03:36] <Kamion> segfault: anyway, those strings are in apt; they'll probably still affect the dapper installer, just pre-first-reboot
[03:36] <Kamion> so translate them in apt and let mvo know that he needs to pull
[03:36] <segfault> kamion: that's weird, i'm installing dapper right now and has it
[03:36] <Kamion> segfault: what, a progress bar after the first reboot?
[03:36] <Kamion> that's ... not possible
[03:36] <Kamion> all the infrastructure for that has been deleted
[03:37] <segfault> kamion: just before the GRUB installation
[03:37] <Kamion> segfault: that's *not* after the first reboot! :-)
[03:37] <Diziet> Oof, I had my client stuck in screen scrollback.
[03:37] <segfault> however... i made a installer CD using jigdo
[03:37] <Kamion> 14:36 < Kamion> segfault: anyway, those strings are in apt; they'll probably still affect the dapper installer, just pre-first-reboot
[03:38] <Kamion> 14:36 < Kamion> so translate them in apt and let mvo know that he needs to pull
[03:38] <Kamion> segfault: see the above
[03:38] <Diziet> Should I add https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+addticket to the ff bookmarks in place of the bugzilla link ?
[03:38] <segfault> kamion: oops, sorry then
[03:38] <lamont> fabbione: am now
[03:38] <mvo> segfault: what bits do you need?
[03:39] <segfault> mvo: some untranslated apt strings, like: "Preparing %s", "Configuring %s" and "Installed %s", in the installation, just before GRUB gets installed
[03:40] <rob^^^> Keybuk, yeah it's the top story on /. I think he is right though, the initial undercurrent of the interview seems to be that Dell refuses to be a "King Maker" and wants to wait to pick the dominant player.
[03:40] <segfault> mvo: should i wait for dapper being ready in rosetta or there's other way to translate them?
[03:41] <pitti> Kamion: sorry to bother you again, can you please NEW thunderbird-locales? (not urgent, though)
[03:41] <mvo> segfault: you have various options, the easiest maybe to apt-get source apt
[03:41] <mkrufky> infinity: ping
[03:42] <Kamion> pitti: main or universe?
[03:42] <segfault> mvo: sure. i'll do that and send you the updated PO files
[03:44] <mvo> segfault: thanks a lot. this is for the pt translation?
[03:44] <pitti> Kamion: eventually for main
[03:45] <pitti> Kamion: but I need to update the language-support packages for them
[03:45] <mvo> segfault: if so, please have a look first at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=355798
[03:45] <Ubugtu> debian bug 355798 in apt "[INTL:pt]  Portuguese translation update" [Wishlist,Open]  
[03:46] <mkrufky> well, I realize that infinity is the php maintainer, but we're in different time zones, and I dont know how to get ahold of him... I have most mssql functionality working through the use of the php5-sybase package .... but it doesnt let me use stored procedures... I've googled it, and everything I found says that it should work with php4.1 and later...  I need access to the functions, "mssql_init(), mssql_bind(), and mssql_execute()"  ... what else do I n
[03:48] <lamont> hrm... guess I should file a bug if there isn't one
[03:48] <segfault> mvo: ok
[03:49] <Kamion> pitti: so universe for now?
[03:49] <segfault> mvo: mine is for pt_BR, it's slightly different :)
[03:49] <Kamion> pitti: actually, main seems harmless and less work
[03:49] <pitti> Kamion: if you can immediately put them iunto main, that would be easier
[03:49] <Kamion> pitti: accepted
[03:49] <pitti> Kamion: thank you very much
[03:50] <pitti> Kamion: I'll update l-support as soon as they are in the archive
[03:51] <mvo> segfault: ah, right :) I knew it was something with pt :)
[03:51] <lamont> mkrufky: infinity does read scrollback
[03:53] <segfault> mvo: hehe :0
[03:53] <segfault> :)
[03:55] <mkrufky> lamont: he didnt reply to me yesterday... I will hang tight, hopefully he'll respond tonight
[03:55] <mkrufky> infinity: you can contact me via email, if im not around .... my irc nick at linuxtv dot org
[03:56] <azeem> mkrufky: if you're on all the time anyway, it might make more sense to just state the problem instead of pinging him.  Saves one round of handshaking
[03:56] <jdub> hey azeem 
[03:57] <azeem> heya
[03:57] <Chipzz> hi jdub ;)
[03:57] <mkrufky> azeem: good point...  thats exactly what i did 10 minutes ago
[03:57] <mkrufky> azeem: i can re-post, but i dont want to break irc netiquette
[03:57] <mkrufky> ;-)
[03:58] <joelbryan> I've successfully implimented a shutdown_logo on top of shutdown dialog. How do I send a patch?
[03:58] <mkrufky> for good measure:
[03:58] <mkrufky> well, I realize that infinity is the php maintainer, but we're in different time zones, and I dont know how to get ahold of him... I have most mssql functionality working through the use of the php5-sybase package .... but it doesnt let me use stored procedures... I've googled it, and everything I found says that it should work with php4.1 and later...  I need access to the functions, "mssql_init(), mssql_bind(), and mssql_execute()"  ... what else do I n
[03:59] <jdub> yo Chipzz 
[04:00] <ogra> jdub, is it possible to make the vendor logo in ubuntu-artwork a alternative ? i'd like to replace it in edubuntu-artwork but dont like to fiddle with dpkg-divert if possible
[04:00] <Kamion> mkrufky: e-mail is the traditional way to solve the timezone problem ;-)
[04:01] <mkrufky> Kamion: where can I find his email?  ...or is there anyone else in addition that can answer php / tds questions ?
[04:02] <Kamion> mkrufky: https://launchpad.net/people/adconrad
[04:02] <joelbryan> jdub: how do I send a patch to ubuntu artwork?
[04:02] <mkrufky> that you :-D
[04:02] <mkrufky> oops
[04:02] <mkrufky> THANK you :-D
[04:04] <jdub> joelbryan: if you've changed images, you'll have to put them up on a website or email them
[04:04] <JaneW> mdz: ping
[04:04] <joelbryan> jdub: it's a patch in logout to have a shutdown_logo
[04:05] <jdub> joelbryan: i imagine that's a gnome-session patch, correct?
[04:05] <jdub> joelbryan: you should ask in #ubuntu-desktop
[04:05] <joelbryan> yes
[04:05] <ogra> or in #dapper-look
[04:06] <lamont> mkrufky: and yeah, this channel tends to have enough volume that it's easy to miss a comment or two
[04:07] <mkrufky> lamont: completely understandable
[04:24] <Keybuk> ogra: random thought
[04:25] <Keybuk> hmm, no, ignore me
[04:25] <ogra> heh
[04:26] <Keybuk> just wondering what happened if you removed /etc/init.d/* rather than the symlinks :)
[04:26] <Keybuk> I suspect it'd work, and survive upgrades
[04:26] <Keybuk> but probably sick, twisted, evil and too late
[04:27] <ogra> hmm, but that leaves no option for the admin to enable it later ...
[04:27] <ogra> i think we (i) need to rework the concept in dapper+1 
[04:32] <jdub> SMF! SMF!
[04:32] <ogra> smf ?
[04:32] <sivang> smf ?
[04:33] <simira> soon middle freeze?
[04:33] <tepsipakki> "service management facility"
[04:33] <tepsipakki> from solaris
[04:34] <sivang> tepsipakki: what would have Jeff with Solaris? :-)
[04:34] <ogra> tepsipakki, thanks 
[04:34] <ogra> jdub, yeah !!
[04:35] <ogra> jdub, when do we see a test implementation for dapper+1 ?
[04:35] <ogra> :)
[04:38] <Keybuk> jdub: I have an implementation of that here <g>
[04:39] <ogra> Keybuk, 
[04:39] <ogra> +case "$oldver" in
[04:39] <ogra> +	2.85-1[0-5] )
[04:39] <ogra> +		update-rc.d -f mountvirtfs remove >/dev/null 2>&1 ||:
[04:39] <ogra> +		;;
[04:39] <ogra> +esac
[04:39] <ogra> thats all i find in sarge 
[04:39] <Keybuk> I'm going to propose it for dapper+1
[04:39] <Keybuk> ogra: right, see, uses -f remove ... then in sid they added the block I just extended
[04:39] <ogra> for exactly one initscript
[04:40] <ogra> i dont care about the adding, update-rc.d does the right thing there ... i care about the forced rmoval that stops it from doing the right thing
[04:41] <Keybuk> but it won't break ltsp
[04:41] <ogra> +nope
[04:41] <Keybuk> it'll just make ltsp boot a second or two slower
[04:41] <Keybuk> playing symlink-checking games will *break* other systems
[04:41] <ogra> and show you a bunch of errors if you disable usplash
[04:42] <Keybuk> if there are errors, we can fix those
[04:42] <ogra> we cant ...
[04:42] <jdub> pitti: ping
[04:42] <Keybuk> tbh, if scripts are taking ages to no-op, those should be fixed too
[04:42] <ogra> they are caused by having a readonly filesystem
[04:42] <pitti> hey jdub
[04:42] <Keybuk> nothing during boot should be writing to / now
[04:42] <ogra> Keybuk, even a no op on a 200Mhz/64MB system can take 5 seconds :)
[04:42] <jdub> pitti: have you tested mailman on dapper?
[04:42] <Keybuk> ogra: it shouldn't take 5s to noop
[04:42] <pitti> jdub: no, why me?
[04:43] <jdub> pitti: because i momentarily confused you with Micksa 
[04:43] <jdub> Mithrandir: 
[04:43] <jdub> Mithrandir: ping
[04:43] <jdub> pitti: n/m ;-)
[04:43] <Keybuk> ogra: either way, I still don't think breaking people's systems just to avoid upgraded ltsp boxes booting slowly is the right call
[04:43] <ogra> Keybuk, it can ...
[04:43] <Keybuk> didn't those symlinks exist in breezy anyway?
[04:43] <ogra> Keybuk, they did 
[04:44] <Keybuk> I thought you only did your rcS.d purge for the dapper cycle
[04:44] <Keybuk> uh
[04:44] <Keybuk> so what's the problem?
[04:44] <ogra> security updates 
[04:44] <Keybuk> if rcS.d is full on breezy systems, me changing the postinst isn't going to change that
[04:44] <Keybuk> security updates of what?
[04:44] <ogra> people that did test installs wuring development
[04:44] <ogra> *during
[04:44] <ogra> initscripts ?
[04:44] <Keybuk> an initscripts security update wouldn't run that code
[04:45] <Keybuk> it's guarded by a version check
[04:45] <jdub> Keybuk: smf userland code + some reasonable replacement for contracts, or...?
[04:45] <ogra> Keybuk, in any case we should find something saner for dapper+1 
[04:45] <Keybuk> jdub: completely different implementation/design that fulfils the same use cases
[04:45] <Keybuk> ogra: sure, dapper+1 we can think about it better
[04:45] <Keybuk> hell, I'm hoping we get something !sysvinit at least "on the table" for dapper+1
[04:46] <ogra> Keybuk, i'm already in contact with pere about it and he talks to the sysv-init team
[04:46] <ogra> ah, even better
[04:46] <jdub> Keybuk: that doesn't seem as exciting to me as driving a common solution
[04:46] <Keybuk> pere is the sysvinit team, isn't he?
[04:46] <ogra> Keybuk, dunno
[04:46] <Keybuk> jdub: *shrug* the Solaris solution is crap; not to mention badly licenced
[04:46] <ogra> Keybuk, he just told me he'd carry the issue to it
[04:46] <jdub> there is nothing wrong with the license for the userland stuff
[04:47] <tseng> doko: did you mean to remove /usr/lib/tclrrd-1.2.11 from rrdtool-tcl?
[04:47] <tseng> doko: (most recent changes are by you it seems)
[04:49] <Keybuk> Mar  8 10:14:21 localhost NetworkManager: <WARNING>^I  (): get_scan_results(): card took too much time scanning.  Get a better one.
[04:49] <Keybuk> ROFL
[04:49] <Keybuk> polite error message
[04:49] <doko> tseng: can't remember ...
[04:49] <siretart> Keybuk: well, just a warning, no? ;)
[04:51] <tseng> doko: if not, it would be nice to have it back.
[04:51] <tseng> doko: /usr/lib/tclrrd1.2.11/pkgIndex.tcl is pretty useful
[04:51] <doko> tseng: could you summarize that in a bug report?
[04:52] <tseng> doko: sure.
[04:52] <doko> thanks
[04:55] <tseng> doko: I assigned it to you for now.
[04:55] <ogra> tseng, just fix it :P youre main uploader :)
[04:56] <tseng> ogra: i might later.
[04:56] <ogra> :)
[04:56] <tseng> ogra: i dont keep a gpg key on my work pcs
[04:56] <ogra> yeah, safer that is
[05:40] <desrt> dholbach; the story is we're not sure :)
[05:40] <dholbach> then better find out :)
[05:40] <desrt> dholbach; i know that at some point in the past i apt-get installed it.... but i think it might have been in some exotic 3rd party repo
[05:40] <desrt> dholbach; so it very well may be NEW
[05:41] <dholbach> NEW is not to be discussed with me.
[05:49] <mdz> dholbach: patch emailed
[05:49] <dholbach> mdz: merci beaucoup
[06:17] <jbailey> Is http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/breezy/release/ expected to only contain DVDs?
[06:17] <jbailey> I'm looking for the CD ISOs.
[06:24] <tepsipakki> mjg59: in case you haven't seen this: http://refit.sourceforge.net/
[06:24] <tepsipakki> might help porting ubuntu to mactel
[06:25] <mdke> hey jbailey, quick and immensely trivial question: is it ok to GPL your script.sh that you wrote for the purposes of translating xml in ubuntu-docs?
[06:26] <jbailey> mdke: Most shell scripts that I write are intended for the public domain.  I try to do that for anything that takes me less than an hour to write.  Did I forget to put a header on it?
[06:26] <mdke> jbailey, yes, but we will do it. So you'd prefer public domain to gpl?
[06:26] <jbailey> mdke: Unless there's a good reason not to.
[06:26] <coyctecm> damn big war here, I've packaged libdvdcss2 for amd64 and storing it some finnish server :)Now admins of that server are checking is that legal or not
[06:27] <mjr> coyctecm, is that what started that s.a.l thread where I just posted? :] 
[06:27] <mdke> jbailey, right, I can't think of one
[06:27] <coyctecm> I think it is legal distribute libdvdcss in finland :)
[06:27] <mjr> coyctecm, I think it isn't, but I'm doing it anyway and baiting the authorities, in hopes to be proven wrong :)
[06:27] <coyctecm> mjr: actually yes, i started that thread :)
[06:28] <coyctecm> mjr: I've mailed to tanja karpela ;)
[06:28] <mdke> coyctecm, mjr, can you discuss in #ubuntu-offtopic?
[06:28] <mjr> yah, sorry
[06:28] <coyctecm> sorry :)
[06:28] <mjr> actually, off to home anyways
[06:28] <Mithrandir> jdub: pong
[06:30] <mjg59> tepsipakki: It's alrady ported
[06:30] <mjg59> We just need a working elilo
[06:30] <jdub> Mithrandir: have you tested mailman on dapper?
[06:31] <Mithrandir> jdub: no.  I suspect it needs /var/run/ and /var/lock love.
[06:31] <Kamion> jbailey: yes, expected, although I need to add a link there at some point
[06:31] <Kamion> jbailey: see http://releases.ubuntu.com/breezy/
[06:31] <jdub> Mithrandir: yeah :-)
[06:32] <tepsipakki> mjg59: ah, ok.. you've also seen the hacks on elilo?
[06:32] <jbailey> Kamion: Cool, thanks.  Wanted to make sure it wasn't just broken.
[06:32] <mjg59> tepsipakki: The basic problem is that we can't build a working elilo under Ubuntu
[06:34] <tepsipakki> mjg59: ok
[06:34] <mdke> jdub, since you're here, would you do the indian loco team mailing list at some stage when you have a moment, the loco chap says they are very keen to have their own mailing list
[06:34] <mdke> jdub, (the team was recognised yesterday at the CC meeting)
[06:35] <coyctecm> I'm thinking to start project, clone k3b for gtk2
[06:36] <sladen> mjg59: how come, does it not like GCC4?
[06:37] <mjg59> sladen: Fuck knows.
[06:37] <mjg59> sladen: It's certainly not happy with /our/ gcc4 and /our/ binutils
[06:38] <tepsipakki> quality stuff ;)
[06:38] <sivang> re
[06:50] <sladen> doesn't it look exciting: http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/qemu-livecd/wine-qemu-win32-dapper-live.png ...y'urm
[06:52] <jbailey> mjg59: Failed build, or useless binary?
[06:54] <mjg59> jbailey: Useless binary
[06:54] <jbailey> Ugh.
[06:54] <jbailey> Any difference if you try older gcc or optimisation disabled?
[06:55] <mjg59> I've tried older gcc
[06:55] <mjg59> It doesn't use optimisation
[06:56] <azeem> mjg59: do you think gentoo kept as that?
[06:56] <azeem> +it, or something
[06:56] <mjg59> azeem: Yes
[06:56] <sladen> mjg59: does a binary diff and disabling the differences give you anything (or something as simple of running a pe32-happy objdump over it)
[06:56] <azeem> whoa :)
[06:56] <mjg59> As far as I could tell
[06:56] <sladen> mjg59: s/disabling/disassembling/
[06:56] <mjg59> sladen: I'll look at objdump at some stage
[07:03] <Treenaks> dpkg --force-something
[07:03] <Treenaks> ?
[07:22] <trappist> there is a --force-architecture
[07:32] <desrt> these 'low disk space warning' popups are particularly useless
[07:33] <seb128> I don't think so
[07:33] <desrt> i get them for drives with 25gig free
[07:34] <seb128> the values are not really wisely choosed
[07:34] <desrt> just because they're over a certain percent
[07:34] <Burgwork> I believe is 20%
[07:34] <seb128> but the concept is useful
[07:34] <seb128> yeah,  that's a known issue
[07:34] <desrt> /dev/sda3             152G  120G   24G  84% /mnt/media
[07:34] <desrt> crikey.
[07:34] <desrt> i also get it for my mp3 player
[07:34] <desrt> which is a bit odd.
[07:34] <seb128> but that's just "it fires up at the wrong moment"
[07:35] <seb128> it should be like 4% or 500M
[07:35] <seb128> and maybe an ignore list for some categories of device
[07:35] <desrt> and it keeps popping up....
[07:35] <seb128> make some space :)
[07:35] <desrt> my vorbis player is supposed to be full :p
[07:36] <seb128> that a category of devics to ignore :)
[07:36] <desrt> but i mean, as i add (and even delete) files from it, it pops up again and again
[07:36] <seb128> hal probably has a capability or something for music players than we can filter on
[07:36] <seb128> no?
[07:36] <desrt> wait a minute
[07:36] <desrt> did martin say he added my unmount dialog to nautilus?
[07:38] <seb128> he patches nautilus based on your patch
[07:39] <desrt> crap :(
[07:40] <desrt> oh well, i sent him an email in any case
[07:42] <seb128> desrt: that's better than nothing
[07:42] <seb128> brb
[07:45] <desrt> seb128; but not as good as it could be.
[07:45] <seb128> desrt: right, but minimal change after freeze, etc
[07:46] <desrt> nod....
[07:46] <desrt> speaking of not making changes... when is the WPA stuff going to go into dapper's network manager?
[07:46] <segfault> desrt: it's unlikely to happen
[07:46] <desrt> crack.
[07:47] <desrt> y'all need to break freezes more casually :)
[07:47] <Burgwork> desrt, really? can I quote you on that?
[07:48] <desrt> only if you include the ":)"
[07:48] <segfault> desrt: heh, keybuk has some good reasons to not make it happen (yet), maybe for dapper+1
[07:48] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I can reproduce your "readahead takes forever" bug now.  I guess I'll just work around it in casper by rm-ing /sbin/readahead-list.
[07:48] <desrt> dapper+1 is called edgy
[07:48] <segfault> really?
[07:48] <desrt> yes.
[07:49] <desrt> you may also quote me on this.
[07:49] <segfault> haha
[07:55] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok
[07:55] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I did it by rm-ing /etc/init.d/*readahead*
[07:55] <highvoltage> desrt: the edgy what?
[07:56] <Mithrandir> Kamion: *shrug*; either works for me.  Just not having to wait forever for the readahead to finish.
[08:02] <segfault> is possible to translate hte gfxboot menu men the usre choose it's language pressing F2?
[08:03] <segfault> my keyb is on crack, sorry.
[08:03] <Kamion> segfault: no, that uses the native name for each language and is not otherwise translatable
[08:03] <Kamion> consider that the user might have selected your language by accident
[08:05] <Kamion> Mithrandir: keymap page layout change in my espresso archive, FYI
[08:05] <Kamion> segfault: or do you mean the rest of the gfxboot menu, not the language menu on F2?
[08:05] <segfault> no... i mean, translate the options the user has, like: Install to the hard disk, Install  aserver, etc. to its native language after he chose in the F2 menu
[08:06] <Kamion> segfault: sure, send me a translation of gfxboot-theme-ubuntu and I'll incorporate it
[08:06] <segfault> kamion: great, i'll do that.
[08:13] <Mithrandir> Kamion: 'k
[08:20] <Kamion> Mithrandir: can you think of any reason not to move the keymap page after the location page? it came up as a suggestion at the UI sprint
[08:20] <highvoltage> anyone know which aninal edgy is?
[08:20] <highvoltage> edgy elmo?
[08:20] <Kamion> Mithrandir: and it would probably help to pick a better default keymap
[08:21] <Kamion> highvoltage: desrt said you could quote him. The question is, is his information reliable? :-)
[08:21] <Mithrandir> Kamion: true, no, can't really think of any if we're asking the question anyway.
[08:21] <highvoltage> Kamion: ah, good point :)
[08:21] <Kamion> Mithrandir: OK, I'll do that if it won't interfere with anything you're doing then
[08:22] <Mithrandir> Kamion: sure, feel free.
[08:34] <Kamion> Riddell: any reason that liveinstaller.py can't be generated on the fly by build-depending on pyqt-tools?
[08:35] <Burgwork> highvoltage, desrt is canadian. Slippery folks, those canucks. Can't be trusted
[08:35] <highvoltage> Burgwork: ah, like Burgandavia
[08:36] <highvoltage> wait a tick...
[08:36] <highvoltage> nevermind :)
[08:38] <Riddell> Kamion: actually it shouldn't be generated at all, but there's a bug in pykdeextensions that stops it working as a include foo.ui if it's in a subdirectory, so I didn't change to build time creating liveinstaller.py because that should get fixed soon, but I don't mind it being done at build time at all
[08:38] <Kamion> Riddell: hmm, when I generate it with pyuic it loses the imports of kdecore and kdeui though
[08:38] <Kamion> I guess you must have added those in by hand - or is there a magic option I'm missing?
[08:38] <Riddell> Kamion: use kdepyuic
[08:39] <Kamion> aha
[08:40] <segfault> kamion: are the accelerator keys used in gfxboot? (the original string says that ^ should be placed before it)
[08:41] <Kamion> segfault: no, not at the moment
[08:41] <Kamion> you might as well add them for now but they won't do anything yet
[08:42] <segfault> kamion: ok
[09:10] <jdub> holy crap
[09:10] <jdub> mysql-a-go-go
[09:10] <tseng> jdub: eh?
[09:11] <jdub> on my linode
[09:12] <jdub> mysql is forking heaps
[09:12] <jdub> lots of processes
[09:12] <jdub> crazy
[09:13] <tseng> jdub: turn off innodb
[09:13] <jdub> yeah, done
[09:13] <tseng> no luck?
[09:13] <jdub> ('cos it saves 10MB straight out)
[09:13] <jdub> no, have always had it disabled
[09:14] <tseng> hm, it takes down my thread count
[09:14] <jdub> this seems to be a blowout
[09:14] <jdub> more than normal behaviour
[09:19] <ik5pvx> good evening
[09:20] <fabbione> hey ik5pvx 
[09:20] <fabbione> lamont: meet ik5pvx 
[09:20] <fabbione> ik5pvx: meet lamont
[09:20] <ik5pvx> hi lamont
[09:21] <fabbione> on the right side of the ring.. US champion on bind maintaince for only 160 lbs.. LAMONT
[09:21] <lamont> fabbione: 195lbs
[09:21] <ik5pvx> :)
[09:21] <fabbione> on the left side of the ring.. Italian champion for butterfly liftling.... ik5pvx 
[09:21] <fabbione> !
[09:21] <lamont> lol
[09:21] <lamont> ik5pvx: what's the issue?
[09:22] <sivang> hehe
[09:22] <sivang> guys, please . stop it, people here are trying to work :)
[09:22] <sivang> but instead they are rolling on the floor laughing and making terrible spelling mistakes ;-)
[09:22] <ik5pvx> well, I realized today (you know, better late than ever) that default installation of bind is open to recursive queries to the world. This is considered a mild security risk in the ISP world
[09:23] <sivang> ik5pvx: can that take down the DNS completely?
[09:23] <lamont> and sadly not really something that's fixable
[09:23] <sivang> (DoS)
[09:23] <lamont> the presumption of the user is that once you install bind, you can use the daemon...
[09:23] <ik5pvx> lamont, so I wanted to know what would be your opinion of shipping it by default open only to localhost and (possibly, if it easibly doable) the local networks
[09:23] <lamont> and I have no clue what network blocks you _want_ to allow recursion from.
[09:24] <lamont> it kinda breaks the config, sorta...
[09:24] <ik5pvx> sivang no, it doesn't take down *your* server... they usually do amplification attacks with this. 
[09:24] <lamont> for example, I live on 15.238.4.0/22, but recursion should probably be allowed for 15/8
[09:25] <lamont> I'd have no issue with adding a comment to the config file, although I'm torn on whether to default to disabled or not.... after all, you don't install bind unless you want to answer queries...
[09:26] <ik5pvx> what about, say:  (in named.conf.options)
[09:27] <lamont> I'll ponder it though... since I used the same argument to make postfix only relay for the local network by default (or was that localhost??)
[09:27] <ik5pvx> acl our-nets { 127.0.0.1; };  options { allow-recursion { our-nets; }; };
[09:28] <ik5pvx> and a big comment saying that you need to add local networks addresses for recursion to work, or remove the statement for a publicly accessible server in a very large isp ?
[09:29] <maswan> ik5pvx: well, alloing localnet by default would probably be good too
[09:30] <maswan> well, "localhost" + "localnets"
[09:30] <ik5pvx> I don't know if there is an easy way at postint stage to detect what are the local networks 
[09:30] <ik5pvx> and if there's an easy way of cooking them into the config file
[09:30] <ik5pvx> bind nicely allows includes, though
[09:30] <maswan> ik5pvx: bind has built-in acls for localhost and localnets
[09:31] <ik5pvx> see, there's always something to learn
[09:31] <maswan> to me, this seems like a sensible default
[09:31] <ik5pvx> what are they ?
[09:31] <maswan> ik5pvx: the IPs for your local interfaces, and the networks your local interfaces are on.
[09:31] <ik5pvx> maswan I meant what are the keywords to use :)
[09:32] <maswan> ik5pvx: "localhost" + "localnets"
[09:32] <ik5pvx> ok
[09:32] <maswan> we recently got the word from our networking people that public recursion was not o
[09:32] <maswan> not ok
[09:33] <maswan> since it is a big ddos-amplifier
[09:33] <ik5pvx> so shipping with "allow-recursion { localhost; localnets; };" could do ?
[09:33] <maswan> ik5pvx: it's what I'd suggest
[09:34] <maswan> perhaps with a "my-networks" too, which has a dummy define with comments on how to extend it
[09:35] <maswan> IIRC, it should be harder to cache-poison a server not allowing public recursion too, but I'm not sure on that
[09:35] <lucas> hi
[09:36] <ik5pvx> lamont what's your opinion on this approach ?
[09:38] <lamont> ik5pvx: that's what I need to ponder some tonight
[09:39] <ik5pvx> I wonder if that "ponder" means "diluting with huge quantities of beer"
[09:39] <ik5pvx> :)
[09:39] <bluefoxicy> Violation of security best practices, what is the severity?
[09:39] <bluefoxicy> (I've located several programs with executable stacks on x86-64)
[09:40] <maswan> lamont: IMO, "localnets" will catch the common case. A pointer towards defining your own ACLs should be good enough for the rest.
[09:40] <Burgwork> bluefoxicy, I would talk to pitti
[09:42] <bluefoxicy> Burgwork:  nods.  It's not an actual vuln though.  The thing is that if you have an actual vuln of specific type (shellcode injection into executable stack via stack buffer overflow), it will be likely a denial of service attack
[09:42] <bluefoxicy> but if the stack is actually executable, then you can easily hijack the program for a remote shell
[09:43] <bluefoxicy> of course if the program is without a real vuln this isn't a problem but ;)
[09:43] <fabbione> bluefoxicy: still pitti
[09:43] <bluefoxicy> Burgwork:  i'll leave it as normal until I see pitty
[09:44] <bluefoxicy> pitti
[09:44] <bluefoxicy> fabbione:  nod
[09:47] <doko> Kamion: please could you promote python-pullparser?
[09:50] <Kamion> doko: done
[09:50] <doko> Kamion: great, zope3 installable :)
[09:50] <doko> ogra: ^^^
[09:56] <ogra> doko, YAY !!!
[09:56] <bluefoxicy> there, I have reported 4 bugs.
[10:01] <ik5pvx> lamont, maswan ... thanks for the discussion and good $localtime
[10:01] <lamont> ik5pvx: thanks for getting me to think on it.
[10:02] <Kamion> Riddell: I give up, I can't see how you generated that exact file
[10:03] <Kamion> all the kdepyuic invocations I can come up with generate something different, mostly with respect to the i18n stuff
[10:03] <sivang> ogra: you're shipping zope with Edubuntu?
[10:03] <ogra> sivang, schooltoll
[10:03] <ogra> *tool
[10:07] <sivang> ogra: ah right, nice. out of the box ready schooltool in an Edubuntu CD. Someday I've gotta put my hands on this nice niche of ubunut.
[10:07] <Burgwork> I am meeting someone tonight who is going to be rolling out many dozens of Ubuntu desktops
[10:08] <Burgwork> they were quite interested in Edubuntu when I mentioned it
[10:17] <ogra> yay
[10:18] <doko> ohh nooo ... I fear we'll need an ia32-libs-scim package ... Mithrandir, do you volunteer? ;-P
[10:23] <siretart> doko: can we have a ia32-libs-sdl package? or add libsdl to some other package?
[10:24] <Kamion> Riddell: I've moved the keymap page before the location page in Espresso's KDE frontend (as well as GTK), but unfortunately I haven't managed to set up a suitable test environment; can you test and make sure it still works?
[10:25] <Kamion> er, once it's finished pushing that is
[10:28] <Kamion> pushed
[10:28] <doko> siretart: why is this needed?
[10:30] <siretart> doko: there are nonfree 32bit applications which need a libsdl and don't bundle one
[10:31] <siretart> doko: most notably is quake4, an id ego shooter game. when I try to run it in a 32bit chroot, it just segfaults for me, and I have no idea why. running it outside a chroot and letting /etc/ld.so.conf point to some dir with a 32bit libsdl makes the game work like a charm
[10:33] <siretart> jamie jones prepared a ia32-libs-universe package (not uploaded): http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1399 - it contains amongs others libsdl, and makes quake4 work
[10:39] <doko> siretart: could you make this package a bit saner? just base it on i.e. ia32-libs-kde, and apply the patch from http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=355766
[10:40] <siretart> doko: will do. which libs would you accept besides sdl and how should it be named?
[10:41] <doko> siretart: -universe looks fine, but maybe ask Mithrandir. IMO as few libs as possible
[10:42] <siretart> well, I find it a bit confusing, because libsdl is a package in 'main', but I don't really mind
[10:48] <doko> ia32-libs-unsupported? 
[10:48] <Kamion> don't see why not to just call it what it is, -sdl
[10:48] <Kamion> ?
[10:49] <ogra> way to obvious :)
[10:49] <Kamion> I'd rather have slightly more binaries than badly named binaries, personally
[10:49] <Kamion> well, s/badly/non-informatively/
[10:50] <ogra> you train the creative regions of the brain of our users if you do that :)
[10:51] <ogra> ubuntu - enhancing your congnitive capabilities :)
[10:51] <siretart> well, Jamies idea was to add more than just sdl
[10:51] <doko> Kamion, didn't look at the contents, if it's only sdl
[10:51] <siretart> therefore the name -universe, because he wanted to include libs which are in universe as well
[10:51] <ogra> if it doesnt contain more, there is no need for another name
[10:52] <Kamion> siretart: I think we should be moving towards one binary per library rather than enormous collections, personally
[10:52] <ogra> i'd see -universe as a metapackage that depends on the different ia32-libs-* packages
[10:52] <Kamion> provided that it doesn't bloat Packages up beyond all recognition, obviously
[10:52] <Kamion> ogra: I'd see it as unnecessary ...
[10:52] <siretart> ok, then I'll name it ia32-libs-sdl and put only sdl libs in there
[10:53] <Kamion> well, or maybe ia32-libs-all I guess
[10:53] <ogra> Kamion, yes, but thats what comes up if i hear the -universe name :)
[10:53] <siretart> jamies list of packages can be seen here: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/ia32-libs-universe-0601051305/ia32-libs-universe-1.0ubuntu1/fetch-and-build
[10:53] <ogra> thats a bunch more than sdl
[10:53] <doko> -any, they are binary-arch ;)
[11:06] <elmo> Kamion: wasn't there a variant of serial console install that simply got  the  network up, installed openssh-server and did the rest over that?
[11:06] <Kamion> in Debian, yes, but we've never supported that
[11:06] <Kamion> it was basically an s390 hack ...
[11:07] <elmo> whine, I wish we could - serial consoles make me want to poke my eyes out with a straw
[11:07] <Kamion> network-console is in universe
[11:07] <Kamion> might think about supporting that post-dapper
[11:09] <ajmitch_> morning
[11:16] <mkrufky> infinity: you around?  I have a php question
[11:16] <mkrufky> I have most mssql functionality working through the use of php5-sybase .... but it doesnt let me use stored procedures... I've googled it, and everything I found says that it should work with php4.1 and later...  I need access to the procedures, "mssql_init(), mssql_bind(), and mssql_execute()"  ... what else do I need to do to get this functionality?
[11:17] <mkrufky> i tried the dapper packages -- nothing changed
[11:25] <infinity> mkrufky: I realise you've been asking for a while, but can you avoid spamming me in 3 different locations at once? :)
[11:31] <tepsipakki> could we get a newer libpam-krb5 for dapper (has: 1.2.0-1, in sid: 1.2.0-2)?
[11:32] <tepsipakki> openssh doesn't save the tickets
[11:33] <tepsipakki> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=339734
[11:33] <tepsipakki> poor ubugtu :)
[11:33] <Seveas> hmm
[11:33] <Seveas> ubugtu should take that
[11:34] <Seveas> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=339734
[11:36] <Seveas> gnaaaa stupid way-too-freeform syntax of debbugs
[11:39] <tepsipakki> heh
[11:39] <Seveas> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=339734
[11:39] <Ubugtu> debian bug 339734 in openssh-server "Kerberos tickets are not saved (pam_krb5)" [Important,Closed]  
[11:40] <Seveas> there. conquered debbugs once again
[11:40] <Seveas> (really debbugs still sucks for this, even malone has a better machine-readable export)
[11:40] <tepsipakki> it was reassigned to libpam-krb5 :)
[11:41] <Seveas> that's what I mean
[11:41] <tepsipakki> ah
[11:41] <Seveas> I have to parse the whole f*ing mbo
[11:41] <Seveas> mbox
[11:41] <Seveas> and have dozens of rules
[11:41] <Seveas> well, no F*ing way - I keep it simple
[11:42] <infinity> Seveas: There is an LDAP interface...
[11:43] <Seveas> infinity, really... no one told me that yet
[11:43] <lucas> I have a problem with hibernate and my video driver. How can I re-request an X autoconfiguration as in dapper's install ?
[11:43] <Seveas> now I have to learn ldap 
[11:43] <Seveas> (simplicity is good, correctness is better)
[11:43] <Seveas> infinity, any quick pointer to it / its usage?
[11:44] <infinity> Seveas: <shrug>... The LDAP interface is no more "correct" than any other, but it's probably less hassle to get info like bug status, package ownership of bug, etc.
[11:44] <Seveas> infinity, I meant correctness of Ubugtu
[11:45] <Seveas> ubugtu now is simple, but sometimes incorrect since I don't parse it all
[11:47] <Seveas> www.debian.org/Bugs says nothing about an ldap interface
[11:47] <infinity> Yeah, I'm looking.  It's a transient thing. :)
[11:47] <Seveas> heh
[11:51] <Seveas> infinity, is it this: http://people.debian.org/~aba/bts2ldap/
[11:52] <infinity> That one would certainly work.  I could have sworn we had one on a project machine, but maybe it's dead again.
[11:54] <infinity> Oh, funny.  That's actually hosted in .au, and about 4 hops from me.
[11:54] <infinity> That's a first.
[11:54] <infinity> Maybe I shouldn't complain about it not being on a Debian Project machine.
[11:55] <Seveas> hmm
[11:55] <Seveas> ldapsearch on a bug id seems to fail for certain bugs
[11:56] <infinity> Bugs that exist?
[11:56] <Seveas> 130076 for example works, but 300000 not
[11:56] <Seveas> both exist
[11:56] <infinity> Right, nevermind then.
[11:57] <infinity> I vaguely recalled the LDAP gateway not sucking, back when it was hosted on master.debian.org. :)
[11:57] <infinity> (Though you could mail the current maintainer and ask him WTF, if you're so inclined)
[11:57] <Seveas> I'm thinking 'meh'
[11:58] <infinity> That's about how much I care too. :)
[11:58] <Seveas> I'll just cope with parsing mboxes and errors in Ubugtu
[12:00] <infinity> Mouseover on the icon says "20 updates available", the window title in the update app says "you can install 25 updates"
[12:00] <infinity> Which one's lying?