[12:21] <LaserJock> raphink: you still up?
[12:21] <raphink> yep
[12:21] <raphink> sure
[12:21] <LaserJock> what time is it there?
[12:21] <raphink> building a fix for kontact
[12:21] <raphink> it's 00:21
[12:21] <raphink> I'm often up later than this
[12:22] <phanatic> raphink: still kontact? is it such a bugware? :)
[12:22] <raphink> phanatic: the first fix I had didn't work
[12:22] <raphink> and I spent 6 hours applying it
[12:22] <raphink> since it a was a bit complicate
[12:22] <phanatic> ouch
[12:22] <raphink> and I had to rebuild the app on top of the new lib
[12:22] <raphink> etc.
[12:22] <raphink> but it didn't work anyway
[12:22] <raphink> so I went to #kontact
[12:22] <raphink> and till made a new fix
[12:22] <raphink> much lighter
[12:23] <raphink> that I'm building right now
[12:23] <raphink> hopefully it'll work
[12:23] <phanatic> yeah, i hope so, too... you deserve it ;)
[12:24] <raphink> :)
[12:40] <SWAT> where can I find the neccesary information to 'build' and 'redistribute' Ubuntu with custom packages (install CD's and Live CD's) ? It's mainly because I want to use a custom WindowManager
[12:40] <LaserJock> SWAT: what WM?
[12:40] <SWAT> fluxbox :)
[12:40] <SWAT> Flubuntu :)
[12:41] <LaserJock> lol
[12:42] <minghua> SWAT: Ubuntu has some work called "OEM support" which you may be interested in, however I can't find anything important on wiki
[12:42] <LaserJock> I'm not really sure where there are docs
[12:42] <minghua> SWAT: there are two spec pages though
[12:42] <LaserJock> seems to be a popular topic lately ;-)
[12:42] <SWAT> why popular?
[12:43] <SWAT> and there is nothing of use, I could find on the wiki.
[12:44] <LaserJock> Ebuntu just came out a little while ago
[12:44] <SWAT> OK :)
[12:44] <LaserJock> although I would personally favor an Obuntu
[12:45] <SWAT> que?
[12:45] <LaserJock> Openbox + Ubuntu
[12:45] <SWAT> 0buntu? Must be a joke :)
[12:45] <SWAT> ow... OK :)
[12:45] <SWAT> so, where I can find the neccesary information? Ideas, hints, tips are very welcome :D
[12:45] <ajmitch> LaserJock: one can't really say that ebuntu 'came out'
[12:46] <ajmitch> since so far it's just been some e17 packages
[12:46] <SWAT> for me it would just be a tweaking of installed packages.... shouldn't be too much work I guess
[12:46] <LaserJock> ajmitch: well, you can download an iso anyway
[12:46] <ajmitch> that's been done? oh wonderful
[12:47] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I guess I should be a little more careful in my choice of words
[12:47] <freeflying-ibook> LaserJock: Ebuntu is out ?
[12:47] <tseng> LaserJock: openbox++
[12:47] <SWAT> :)
[12:47] <LaserJock> freeflying-ibook: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ebuntu
[12:49] <LaserJock> anyway,they might have the info you are looking for SWAT
[12:49] <SWAT> LaserJock, thanks for the tip :)
[12:49] <phanatic> good night guys
[12:50] <LaserJock> cya phanatic
[12:50] <SWAT> nn
[12:51] <ajmitch> LaserJock: where is this ebuntu iso?
[12:53] <tseng> the guy claims he is going to get funding from canonical any day now
[12:53] <ajmitch> oh right
[12:54] <LaserJock> ajmitch: what the heck, I though they were distributing .iso's. I only see debs
[12:54] <LaserJock> it looks like he is looking for a host for is iso's
[12:56] <LaserJock> elivecd.org is pretty cool looking though, I think Ebuntu is supposed to be the Ubuntu version kinda
[12:57] <LaserJock> hi sistpoty
[12:57] <sistpoty> hi folks
[12:59] <ajmitch> hey sistpoty
[12:59] <sistpoty> hi LaserJock, ajmitch
[01:00] <ajmitch> LaserJock: perhaps I'm just overly cynical
[01:00] <LaserJock> ajmitch: not really. I understand where you are coming from
[01:01] <LaserJock> ajmitch: but I wonder if the elivecd.org guys use checkinstall.
[01:01] <ajmitch> KinsLaYer: do you really need to do ctcp ping?
[01:03] <LaserJock> ajmitch: you scared him off ;-)
[01:05] <ajmitch> I get suspicious when someone does ctcp ping & version a couple of times
[01:06] <Mez> hmm is anyone here willing to debug my abysmal C++ coding and get some code working for me ?:P
[01:08] <sistpoty> Mez: only a small error? then I'd give it a try;)
[01:09] <Mez> sistpoty: It's nothgn major - I think - it just needs a little tweaking somewhere
[01:09] <Mez> sistpoty: bzr branch http://baz.thekatapult.org.uk/mez/dynamicprograms/
[01:09] <sistpoty> Mez: ok, I'll take a look...
[01:09] <Mez> it's in the code I changed to programcatalog
[01:10] <Mez> probably completely messed up ;)
[01:10] <Mez> but - meh - if it is don't worry
[01:10] <ajmitch> Mez: did you fix up bzr push?
[01:11] <Mez> ajmitch: not yet - not been to sleep yet
[01:11] <Mez> sorry
[01:11] <Mez> went to sleep before that *
[01:11] <Mez> at least my python is better than my C++
[01:11] <ajmitch> I don't worry, I don't use push very often :)
[01:11] <Mez> I wish whoever was in the shower would hurry up
[01:14] <sistpoty> Mez: how can I build it?
[01:15] <Mez> make -f admin/Makefile.common dist
[01:15] <Mez> will create your makefiles/configure for you
[01:15] <sistpoty> Mez: ah, thx
[01:24] <sistpoty> gborzi@ieee.org: are you online?
[01:33] <ajmitch> hi tritium
[01:33] <tritium> hi ajmitch!
[01:33] <ajmitch> how's it going?
[01:33] <tritium> Not bad.  How are you?
[01:35] <ajmitch> alright
[01:35] <tritium> I'm packing for a trip
[01:50] <LaserJock> hi tritium!
[01:51] <tritium> Hi LaserJock!
[01:54] <LaserJock> tritium: how's life been going?
[01:54] <tritium> LaserJock: same old.  You?
[01:55] <LaserJock> tritium: pretty much, I'll sure be glad when I get out of grad school.
[01:56] <LaserJock> tritium: had to give a departmental seminar today on my research
[01:56] <tritium> How did it go?
[01:56] <ajmitch> LaserJock: how much longer do you have?
[01:57] <LaserJock> tritium: fine, it was mostly the same stuff I've been talking about for 3 semesters now.
[01:57] <LaserJock> ajmitch: probably ~ 1 year, depending on my how quickly my collaborators can get their work done
[01:57] <ajmitch> right
[01:58] <ajmitch> the fun of working with others :)
[01:58] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, I'd probably be done now if I wasn't tied to other people
[01:58] <tritium> LaserJock: glad it went well.  :)
[01:59] <tritium> LaserJock: as busy as it feels in grad school, it only gets busier after you graduate.
[01:59] <LaserJock> tritium: I'm sure. what do you do?
[02:00] <tritium> LaserJock: I'll just refer to it as systems engineering
[02:00] <LaserJock> hmm, that sounds about vague enough ;-)
[02:02] <LaserJock> tritium: how's the weather down there? It's been fairly cold and nasty here
[02:03] <tritium> LaserJock: heh, intentionally so...Weather is pretty good.  I'm off to dinner.  Talk to you in a bit.
[02:03] <LaserJock> tritium: cya later
[02:03] <LaserJock> I'm stuck in the lab until 21:00 tonight :(
[02:06] <raphink> :(
[02:07] <LaserJock> well, on the bright side I'm more likely to get some Ubuntu work done at the lab then at home
[02:07] <raphink> hehe
[02:07] <raphink> ok
[02:07] <raphink> :)
[02:20] <atie_> hi, all
[02:20] <freeflying> atie_: hi
[02:38] <minghua> hi atie_
[02:38] <minghua> atie_: I actually have a question for you
[02:38] <atie_> minghua, hi.. thx for scm-hangul.
[02:39] <minghua> atie_: I heard that scim-tables-ko is not really suitable for native Korean speakers, but more for the people learning Korean, is that right?
[02:39] <minghua> atie_: my pleasure
[02:39] <atie_> minghua, I don't know...
[02:39] <minghua> atie_: I am asking because I just noticed that language-support-ko depends on both scim-hangul and scim-tables-ko
[02:40] <minghua> atie_: oh okay.  but if you can ask this question for me in the Korean ubuntu community, I would appreciate it
[02:40] <atie_> minghua, you mean same as scim-tables-jp(or ja)?
[02:40] <atie_> minghua, I saw they removed dependancy for scim-tables-jp...
[02:41] <minghua> atie_: it's -ja.  I don't really know, I am just raising this to your attention
[02:42] <minghua> atie_: it is important to me because if I implement im-switch support for scim-tables, I need to decide the priority based on if they are installed by default or not
[02:42] <atie_> minghua, I will check it, is there reason not for both?
[02:43] <freeflying> minghua: language-support-zh shall depend on scim-tables-zh too
[02:43] <minghua> atie_: both existing is fine (at least for me).  but then which one do you think will be preferred, scim-hangul or scim-tables-ko (again, for setting the im-switch priority)
[02:43] <minghua> freeflying: yes I saw that
[02:43] <atie_> scim-hangul, I think.
[02:44] <minghua> freeflying: and scim-tables-ja was not in ja's language pack because JP team doesn't want it, right?
[02:44] <atie_> but, scim-tables-ja did, why not for all scim-tables-xx?
[02:44] <freeflying> minghua: ya , I ask pitti remove them ,for they file bugs on it
[02:44] <minghua> atie_: okay, thanks.  I suppose scim-tables-ko should have lower priority than scim-hangul
[02:45] <minghua> freeflying: ok thanks for the info
[02:45] <doko> freeflying, minghua: some time about OOo and scim?
[02:45] <atie_> minghua, ok
[02:45] <freeflying> minghua: actually scim-tables and scim-hangul are the modules of scim
[02:46] <freeflying> doko: hi
[02:46] <doko> I think one of you will attend the sprint next week
[02:46] <minghua> doko: sure, any time
[02:46] <doko> cool
[02:47] <atie_> minghua, can you wait for a while? I will ask it to the author of scim-hangul right now.
[02:47] <doko> would it be possible to have some testing done with OOo and scim interoperability?
[02:48] <minghua> atie_: the Japanese team doesn't want the -tables-ko package, but Chinese team definitely want -tables-zh package, so no, I am afraid not all -tables-* packags are equal :-)
[02:48] <minghua> atie_: of course, thanks for asking him
[02:49] <minghua> doko: is this sprint some kind of IRC workshop?
[02:49] <freeflying> doko: I can use these two together now
[02:49] <minghua> doko: I can help on testing for sure
[02:50] <doko> minghua: we could coordinate an irc meeting next week, sure
[02:50] <minghua> atie_: s/-tables-ko/-tables-ja/
[02:50] <freeflying> minghua: we are setting up the test team for ubuntu-cn team , so would you mind give some advice
[02:51] <minghua> freeflying: I saw that on ubuntu-cn's forum, but what kind of advice are you looking for?  I don't have much experience on testing myself
[02:51] <doko> freeflying, minghua: I'm interested in testing the following things: i386/gnome, amd64/gnome, i386/kde, amd64/kde
[02:51] <minghua> just install the software, change the settings, try different features, I suppose?  that's how I test stuff
[02:52] <minghua> doko: I don't have amd64 hardware, but I can test both for i386
[02:52] <freeflying> doko: I can test i386/ppc for OOo and scim
[02:53] <minghua> doko: if kde-core installed on ubuntu (instead of Kubuntu) qualifies as kde :-)
[02:53] <doko> so nobody with access to amd64?
[02:53] <doko> minghua: that's ok
[02:53] <minghua> freeflying: maybe you can ask around on ubuntu-cn?
[02:53] <minghua> not sure how many people use dapper there, though
[02:54] <freeflying> no problem , I'd looking for some guys using amd64
[02:54] <doko> it would be nice to find some tester for amd64 ;-)
[02:54] <freeflying> doko: no problem
[02:55] <minghua> doko: one thing you may consider is locale, I never could reproduce the "pasting chinese crashes OOo" bug in my en_US.UTF-8 locale
[02:55] <doko> please make sure that any problems are filed in malone/launchpad
[02:55] <minghua> doko: by the way, when you say you are going to work on ttf-dejavu "next week", is that the week starting at March 12?
[02:56] <minghua> doko: I am interested in dejavu font too and may prepare a patch for you
[02:56] <minghua> doko: sure, I always use malone
[02:56] <doko> minghua: sure, please make sure that your patch works with 2.1 and 2.3
[02:57] <freeflying> minghua: as i comment on that bugs ,you shall try with zh_CN or ja_JP locales
[02:57] <minghua> doko: will test for both 2.1 and 2.3.
[02:57] <doko> fine
[02:57] <minghua> freeflying: I don't have time
[02:57] <minghua> freeflying: I am not saying that bug is invalid, I am just saying it's locale dependent
[02:58] <minghua> freeflying: which may help debugging
[02:58] <freeflying> minghua: that bug is fixed now
[02:58] <minghua> freeflying: yes I know that as well, I am subscribed to that bug
[03:00] <minghua> doko: what should we do if the test result is good?  that doesn't suit for malone, I suppose?
[03:02] <doko> minghua: please email me which language/input method you tested
[03:02] <mat|l> could any mono guy look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/blam/+bug/4839 ? it's been broken for ages (since firefox 1.5 actually), and there is solution just waiting for someone to roll a new package with it in the bug comments for quite some time too
[03:02] <Ubugtu> malone bug 4839 in blam "(dapper) blam stopped working" [Normal,Confirmed] 
[03:03] <mat|l> tons of duplicates, too
[03:03] <minghua> doko: okay, I'll do them at latest this weekend, I think.
[03:03] <doko> thanks
[03:05] <minghua> freeflying, atie_: I am looking at bug #31731.  so now scim-gtk2-immodule is not installed by default?  what about scim-qtimm then?  if this bug is fixed, will -ko and -zh be changed as well?
[03:05] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31731 in language-support-ja "language-support-ja needs to be depended on scim-gtk2-immodule" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31731
[03:06] <atie_> minghua, we don't need scim-tables-ko with language pack same as scim-tables-ja.
[03:06] <minghua> this is important because currently scim-hangul sets GTK_IM_MODULE to scim
[03:06] <freeflying> minghua: both of them are not installed defaultly, I just wonder how to solve this  too
[03:06] <minghua> atie_: file a bug and ask freeflying for a new upload of language-support-ko, then?  ;-)  (sorry I am not involved in the language pack work)
[03:07] <atie_> minghua, OK anyway thx for checking that.
[03:07] <minghua> freeflying: I'll just wait for this, and probably change scim-hangul's im-switch priority if necessay in the end
[03:08] <minghua> necessary*
[03:09] <freeflying> minghua: there are two ,so the problem is let which package depend on these two ?
[03:09] <minghua> freeflying: which two? scim-gtk2-immodule and scim-qtimm?
[03:09] <freeflying> minghua: ya
[03:10] <minghua> freeflying: ubuntu-deskotp depends on scim now, right?  my opinion is that ubuntu-desktop should depend on scim-gtk2-immodule as well
[03:10] <minghua> freeflying: I don't know much about KDE, but I suppose similar
[03:10] <sistpoty> hm... only two votes in the poll for the next motu meeting... /me hopes it won't get as lonesome as last meeting was
[03:12] <LaserJock> sistpoty: hmm, when is the next meeting?
[03:12] <sistpoty> LaserJock: Fri, 10 March - 20.00 UTC
[03:13] <freeflying> sistpoty: how about 12:00UTC
[03:13] <minghua> but then again, installing scim-gtk2-immodule by default have the risk of getting hit hard by bug #2246
[03:13] <Ubugtu> malone bug 2246 in acroread "can not start acroread in breezy" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2246
[03:13] <LaserJock> sistpoty: that works well for me ;-)
[03:14] <sistpoty> freeflying: we had a poll for the date... I don't want to change it again, now that the poll is over
[03:14] <minghua> sistpoty: I think I'll attend, although I am not an MOTU :-)
[03:14] <sistpoty> :)
[03:19] <freeflying> minghua: how about install these two defaultly
[03:21] <minghua> freeflying: no idea about scim-qtimm.  but as I've said, installing scim-gtk2-immodule by default have a risk of getting hit by #2246
[03:22] <minghua> freeflying: and I am pretty sure there is no way to install scim-qtimm on ubuntu, vice versa for scim-gtk2-immodule and kubuntu
[03:22] <minghua> by default, that is, of course
[03:23] <freeflying> minghua: on the contrary, they can be
[03:23] <minghua> freeflying: I am saying installing them by default
[03:23] <freeflying> minghua: ya
[03:23] <minghua> freeflying: I bet you can persuade no one
[03:24] <freeflying> minghua: ya, that's true
[03:24] <freeflying> minghua: or hard to
[03:25] <freeflying> minghua: I need scim-gtk2-immodule in kubuntu , also guys use ubuntu may use some qt/kde program
[03:27] <minghua> freeflying: you can use XIM mode in GTK or Qt programs just fine
[03:27] <freeflying> minghua: can we make scim modlue depend on then ?
[03:28] <minghua> freeflying: please rephrase, I don't understand
[03:29] <freeflying> minghua: make scim-hangul depend on scim-gtk2-immodule and scim-qtimm
[03:31] <atie_> if non-Korean speakers need scim-hangul, do we need scim-gtk2-immodule and scim-qtimm?
[03:31] <minghua> freeflying: no, that's improper, because scim-hangul works fine without scim-gtk2-immodule or scim-qtimm
[03:32] <minghua> atie_: no, I suppose no.  Unless XIM mode doesn't work for Korean
[03:32] <minghua> atie_: if you can use the scim-hangul_xim mode in im-switch just fine, then you don't need scim-gtk2-immodule or scim-qtimm
[03:33] <atie_> minghua, in most cases scim is used with scim mode.
[03:34] <minghua> freeflying: and by the way, the dependency on scim-gtk2-immodule and scim-qtimm should be on scim package, not module packages (like scim-hangul)
[03:34] <minghua> atie_: well, I don't know, quite some chinese users use XIM mode with scim
[03:35] <minghua> atie_: I have no idea about the general picture, that's why I set scim mode to default
[03:35] <atie_> minghua, freeflying , I think so, I prefer scim depends on both im module.
[03:35] <minghua> atie_: I am just saying it's possible to use scim with out scim-gtk2-immodule and scim-qtimm
[03:36] <atie_> minghua, I understood.
[03:36] <minghua> atie_: scim currently recommends scim-gtk2-immodule, and I would object on scim depending on any of them, especially scim-qtimm
[03:36] <atie_> but we're talking about a solution for the bug.
[03:36] <minghua> recommends is what I think is proper
[03:37] <minghua> atie_: some package else (like ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop) should depend on them, not scim
[03:38] <minghua> atie_: do you reallize what you suggest means that anybody using scim (even if they use icewm/fvwm) need to install all the GTK and KDE libraries?
[03:38] <freeflying> minghua: language-pack-kde-zh can not depend on these
[03:38] <minghua> freeflying: scim shouldn't depend on these either
[03:38] <minghua> freeflying: see my comment above
[03:39] <atie_> minghua, then the bug can't be solved. :)
[03:40] <minghua> atie_: what's wrong with my proposal of ubuntu-desktop depending on scim-gtk2-immodule?  it is already depending on scim, no?
[03:40] <minghua> somebody need to tell me how this language support thing worked
[03:40] <minghua> I don't know it at all
[03:40] <ajmitch> more stuff that ubuntu-desktop depends on?
[03:41] <minghua> how you install scim/skim by default now, how you install scim-gtk2-immodule/scim-qtimm
[03:41] <ajmitch> I guess you'd have to make sure that scim works *perfectly* if it's going to be installed by default :)
[03:41] <atie_> minghua, what is difference between using scim and ubuntu-desktop?
[03:41] <minghua> there is no way for me to agree that scim should depending on scim-gtk2-immodule and scim-qtimm
[03:42] <minghua> of course, whether I agree or not probably doesn't matter
[03:43] <minghua> ajmitch: I am actually trying to do that.  scim can work in two mode, and different mode have different depedency.  I am trying to figure out what dependency will be installed by default, so that I can get the settings to the correct mode
[03:43] <atie_> to me scim-immodules depend on scim is more logical than k/ubuntu-desktop... even some users don't install desktop package.
[03:44] <freeflying> ajmitch: scim can works quite pefectly now in dapper
[03:44] <minghua> ajmitch: although I must admit neither of the mode works *perfectly* :-(  but I'll try my best to make them at least work
[03:44] <ajmitch> freeflying: good, since it'll have to be supported for 3 years
[03:45] <freeflying> ajmitch: ya, the upstream author will continue on 1.x release
[03:45] <minghua> atie_, freeflying: I am not arguing on IRC anymore.  I'll open a bug in launchpad and post all my opinion there
[03:45] <minghua> if there is no bug opened yet, that is
[03:45] <atie_> minghua, that's good. and also please use the scim wiki... :)
[03:46] <minghua> freeflying: I wouldn't call that perfectly, especially with bug #2246 still around
[03:46] <Ubugtu> malone bug 2246 in acroread "can not start acroread in breezy" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2246
[03:48] <minghua> atie_: I am afraid I won't post arguments on wiki, I'll only post conclusions
[03:48] <atie_> minghua, I thought it's discussion.
[03:48] <atie_> minghua, so need to see opened one too.
[03:48] <minghua> atie_: I don't.  I have expressed all my opinions and apparently can't convince you.  There is nothing for me to discuss anymore.
[03:49] <minghua> atie_: and if I post my opinions on wiki, it will look as if it's decided.  I don't want to give that impression
[03:49] <atie_> minghua, I mean not only you, freeflying and myself, other devs and people need to see. :)
[03:51] <minghua> atie_: I don't think the wiki page will be seen by more people than a bug
[03:52] <minghua> atie_: feel free to paste pointers to the bug on wiki, I am not going to do that myself though
[03:52] <atie_> minghua, OK up to you.
[03:53] <minghua> still nobody told me how scim is installed by default now
[03:57] <minghua> atie_, freeflying: I'll follow up in bug #31731, as apparently only language-support-{zh,ko,ja} installs scim by default now
[03:57] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31731 in language-support-ja "language-support-ja needs to be depended on scim-gtk2-immodule" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31731
[03:59] <jaldhar> minghua: do you know if dapper will include skim?  (my ubuntu box is still on breezy)
[04:02] <minghua> jaldhar: from what I heard, dapper will have skim in main.  and CJK language installs for KDE will install them by default (but other language won't)
[04:03] <minghua> jaldhar: but I am not really involved in this, you may want to ask freeflying instead
[04:03] <atie_> minghua, freeflying bye... I got to go... bye all.
[04:08] <jaldhar> minghua: ok will do
[04:11] <jaldhar> btw, a general question to all: is dapper in a reasonably stable situation right now or should I wait till the release?
[04:12] <jaldhar> I use kubuntu on my laptop and it's ok for it to be a little bit unstable but I do need to do work with it
[04:13] <dolson> jaldhar: I'm running Dapper / GNOME and it's fine for me.. YMMV
[04:13] <dolson> does the Microsoft Shared Source License meet the requirements to be in debian/ubuntu?
[04:13] <ajmitch> dolson: which one? there are a few licenses
[04:14] <dolson> the one that Firefox2 might be released under
[04:14] <ajmitch> 'might be'
[04:14] <ajmitch> more rumours & speculation?
[04:14] <sistpoty> oh, congrats for membership, dolson ;)
[04:14] <dolson> http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox2/StatusMeetings/2006-03-07#Alpha_1_Status
[04:14] <dolson> thanks sistpoty :D
[04:15] <LaserJock> yeah, way to go dolson :-)
[04:15] <ajmitch> if it's not I'm sure they'll hear about it
[04:15] <dolson> thanks LaserJock :)
[04:15] <dolson> I was kinda surprised to see that they'd go with a Microsoft license
[04:15] <dolson> "might" I mean
[04:16] <freeflying> jaldhar: it's up to yourself at all , dapper is in development after all
[04:16] <dolson> I still wonder about point #9 in that license "Microsoft reserves all rights not expressly granted to you in this license."
[04:17] <ajmitch> dolson: standard license clause
[04:17] <ajmitch> if it's the license they link to, they're crazy
[04:17] <dolson> I assume that if they use that license, that they will change it to "Mozilla Foundation" or something other than Microsoft?
[04:18] <dolson> in which case, is it even the "Microsoft" S. S. L. anymore
[04:18] <ajmitch> yes, they would
[04:18] <jaldhar> freeflying: ah what the hell I'll do it this weekend.  Btw, did you see my question to minghua?
[04:18] <ajmitch> and I really really doubt they'll use this one
[04:19] <freeflying> jaldhar: kubuntu will include skim
[04:19] <ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
[04:19] <jaldhar> freeflying: cool. thanks
[04:20] <jsgotangco> hey ajmitch been a while dude
[04:20] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: yeah, a couple of days since I saw you online
[04:20] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, i've been busy and flying tomorrow
[04:20] <jsgotangco> and next week will be flying again outside
[04:20] <dolson> ajmitch: after a bit of research, I think someone found that link through Digg and registered an account to make that edit and spread FUD
[04:21] <ajmitch> dolson: lovely!
[04:21] <ajmitch> dolson: btw, the ubuntustudio wiki page says that ubuntu is nearly useless for music work due to lack of realtime-preempt patches - I thought they weren't needed?
[04:21] <dolson> they are needed
[04:22] <dolson> but the patch is huge! over 1MB
[04:22] <ajmitch> and very intrusive, I imagine
[04:23] <dolson> likely.. but it really is needed unless you use high latencies in JACK
[04:24] <ajmitch> and policy is that we don't carry multiple kernels
[04:25] <dolson> well, Mark said to me "don't worry, you'll get it"
[04:25] <dolson> so whatever that means
[04:25] <jsgotangco> a derivative is what you'll get
[04:25] <jsgotangco> hehe
[04:26] <ajmitch> dolson: that shared source edit does look very suspicious, doesn't it? :)
[04:26] <dolson> he said something about some brazillians that will do it and something about moobuntu or something like that
[04:26] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: sure, why not? there are server kernels now, so why not music kernels? :)
[04:26] <dolson> ajmitch: yeah, heh.. I shoulda checked that first
[04:26] <ajmitch> it's part of what launchpad is designed for
[04:27] <dolson> one of my guys made a patch for Dapper's kernel
[04:27] <dolson> but I have horrible issues with it
[04:27] <dolson> as in, everything works ok, *except* my music apps :P
[04:28] <ajmitch> haha
[04:28] <ajmitch> that is an issue
[04:28] <dolson> a small one, yeah
[04:28] <dolson> so I'll just use a vanilla kernel for now. I think forest is working on figuring out a better way
[04:28] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, do you have toys to play with big iron?
[04:29] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: don't be silly
[04:29] <ajmitch> the fastest box I have is my laptop
[04:29] <jsgotangco> muhahahaha
[04:30] <ajmitch> some of us poor, struggling individuals have to make do with so little..
[04:30] <jsgotangco> me too
[06:46] <desrt> tseng; i don't think it will happen :)
[06:47] <desrt> tseng; unless it was in universe before (which it seems it was not) you have to get approval from mdz or colin
[07:53] <nmsa> Hello
[07:53] <ajmitch> hi
[07:54] <nmsa> ajmitch: how are you? got some questions
[07:54] <ajmitch> alright, ask away
[07:54] <nmsa> I would like to include boinc in next release
[07:55] <nmsa> currently I see only support for kde
[07:55] <ajmitch> ah
[07:55] <ajmitch> is this a new package?
[07:55] <nmsa> is used for seti@home
[07:55] <nmsa> apt-search gives me only kde packages, nothing for gnome
[07:56] <ajmitch> right
[07:56] <ajmitch> we're already past the inclusion date for new packages
[07:56] <nmsa> can i ? next release is 6.04 + 1
[07:56] <nmsa> not ready for 6.04
[07:57] <nmsa> I will not be
[07:57] <ajmitch> right
[07:57] <ajmitch> if you want to package it, and t's free to distribute, and noone else is doing it, then go ahead
[07:59] <nmsa> where shall I look for info to see if someone else is doing it ? wiki?
[07:59] <ajmitch> revu.tauware.de
[07:59] <ajmitch> and it doesn't appear to be on there
[08:00] <nmsa> MOTU/Packages/Candidates reports nothing as well
[08:00] <nmsa> so no one is working on it
[08:01] <ajmitch> I guess if the software is free then you can work on it
[08:02] <nmsa> shall I put myself on a list somewhere as working on it or just start working ?
[08:02] <nmsa> is free
[08:02] <ajmitch> do you know what license it is under?
[08:03] <nmsa> I don't see any liceses on the main page, but I'll look harder
[08:03] <ajmitch> ah, LGPL in some source files
[08:03] <ajmitch> looks fine
[08:03] <nmsa> GNU Free Documentation License
[08:04] <Lathiat> but its not free!!
[08:04] <Lathiat> *hides
[08:04] <nmsa> http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php
[08:04] <ajmitch> manual would be under GFDL
[08:04] <Lathiat> nmsa: the new stuff sucks
[08:04] <ajmitch> source won't be
[08:04] <Lathiat> nmsa: the old windows client was much better
[08:04] <Lathiat> and the linux client is just harder to use now
[08:04] <Lathiat> than it was beforre
[08:05] <nmsa> Lathiat: I run the client and manager on a few boxes and wrok fine, just the GUI is "ugly" imho :)
[08:06] <nmsa> plus I see a few problems while behind a proxy
[08:06] <Lathiat> im runnign SETI on both cores of my athlon64 x2 4200+
[08:06] <Lathiat> eats through WUs :)
[08:06] <ajmitch> how's that box going?
[08:06] <Lathiat> ajmitch: good :)
[08:06] <Lathiat> now i got rid of the shitty onboard sound
[08:06] <ajmitch> yeah
[08:06] <Lathiat> got a sound blaster live 5.1
[08:06] <Lathiat> win win
[08:07] <Lathiat> back in the land of .nz ?
[08:07] <ajmitch> not yet :(
[08:07] <Lathiat> or still down under?
[08:07] <nmsa> cpu 92.4  mem 3.2  time 14:49.05 commandsetiathome_4.02
[08:07] <Lathiat> despite being above your usual location
[08:07] <Lathiat> haha
[08:07] <Lathiat> what are you doing over here anyway
[08:07] <ajmitch> C#
[08:07] <ajmitch> evils
[08:08] <nmsa> so I'll go ahead on boinc, ok?
[08:08] <ajmitch> sure
[08:09] <nmsa> thank you, go to run to the office, speak to you later guys, have a good day :)
[08:54] <zakame> hi MOTUs
[08:54] <ArmeBosse> freeflying: log4cpp, klibido and kvpnc updated
[08:54] <ArmeBosse> hi zakame
[08:54] <Hobbsee> hey zakame
[08:54] <zakame> heya ArmeBosse Hobbsee
[08:55] <freeflying> zakame: hey
[08:55] <Gloubiboulga> hey zakame
[08:55] <Hobbsee> argh!  who changed the malone search?
[08:55] <freeflying> ArmeBosse: hey
[08:55] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
[08:55] <ajmitch> 90% of recent conversation being 'hi $PERSON'
[08:56] <zakame> heya freeflying Gloubiboulga
[08:56] <zakame> grr I'm having bad dialup this past week and now :(
[08:56] <Hobbsee> how do i sort bugs for a package in malone by last modified date?
[08:57] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: sacrifice a chicken & dance to the 4 winds?
[08:57] <Hobbsee> any other way to do it?
[08:57] <ajmitch> it'd probably do as much good
[08:58] <ajmitch> not that I recall, sorry
[08:58] <ajmitch> how are you anyway? ;)
[08:58] <Hobbsee> or do the bug ID's go up sequentially with the date?
[08:58] <Hobbsee> hehe
[08:58] <ajmitch> they do go up by date
[08:58] <zakame> heh, hi Ubugtu
[08:58] <Hobbsee> ah, good, so i can sort that way
[08:58] <ajmitch> but that's date filed, not last modified date
[08:59] <Hobbsee> hmmm...true
[08:59] <Hobbsee> better than nothing though
[09:00] <ajmitch> yes
[09:00] <Hobbsee> and as for how i am, i'm getting kinda annoyed at people who write vague bugs with no steps to reproduce them!
[09:00] <ajmitch> join the club
[09:00] <ajmitch> "f-spot/beagle/banshee is broken!!! omg wat do i do?"
[09:01] <ajmitch> ok, time to disconnect
[09:01] <Hobbsee> hehe
[09:01] <Hobbsee> ok, have fun
[09:02] <zakame> mmmm, chicken....
[09:02] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: or this one https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdenetwork/+bug/26527
[09:02] <Ubugtu> malone bug 26527 in kdenetwork kopete "Kopete makes the whole O.S. get frozen" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
[09:02] <Hobbsee> as far as i'm concerned, i cant reproduce that on my system, so...
[09:03] <Hobbsee> it's probably pre-kde3.5.1
[09:23] <siretart> morning
[09:24] <zachy> hello siretart
[09:35] <siretart> has anyone seen \sh lately?
[09:35] <siretart> we really should get wine uploaded RSN so that users can test it
[09:41] <minghua> siretart: reading his blog, it seems he is having a hard time
[09:41] <minghua> siretart: I doubt he has time for wine work
[09:50] <netzmeister> good morning
[10:04] <minghua> Same goes for libtiff, which our
[10:04] <minghua> friends over at Debian screwed up (libtiff broke ABI compat with
[10:04] <minghua> version 3.6.1, so debian changed its soname to so.4--making it
[10:04] <minghua> impossible for a binary built on a debian-based distro to work
[10:04] <minghua> anywhere else, and vise-versa).
[10:05] <minghua> and they call this "debian screwed up"?
[10:15] <Riddell> Kyral: hmm?
[10:15] <Riddell> Kyral: no, you're not
[10:32] <phanatic> hi people
[10:33] <highvoltage> phanatic: and geeks
[10:34] <phanatic> highvoltage: :)
[10:39] <phanatic> hi raphink
[10:39] <raphink> hi phanatic
[10:40] <phanatic> will send you another review in some minutes :)
[10:40] <raphink> dholbach: ok then I'll merge digikam :)
[10:40] <raphink> phanatic: ok
[10:41] <dholbach> cool
[10:41] <raphink> :)
[10:44] <phanatic> raphink: mail sent
[10:45] <raphink> ok
[10:57] <raphink> phanatic: do you mind if I review your review?
[10:57] <raphink> ;)
[10:58] <Gloubiboulga> raphink, hello :)
[10:58] <phanatic> raphink: no :)
[10:58] <phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga :)
[10:58] <Gloubiboulga> raphink, could you run revu-report on texmaker, and maybe review it if the report is ok ?
[10:58] <raphink> phanatic: there's no policy regarding Homepage:. It is nice to advice using it, but it's not required and there's no required shape for it
[10:58] <Gloubiboulga> hi phanatic
[10:58] <raphink> Gloubiboulga: sure, wait a min
[10:58] <Gloubiboulga> np raphink
[10:59] <phanatic> raphink: i think there is (read in one of the debian policies, but can't remember which)
[10:59] <phanatic> and i was taught to use it like this ;)
[10:59] <raphink> ok
[11:00] <minghua> phanatic, raphink: are you talking abotu the debian/copyright or package description?
[11:00] <raphink> phanatic: your comments are good, but I think they could be a bit more explicative. For example the 5.0.7 for debhelper is no magic trick, you get it with the version of the package, etc.
[11:00] <raphink> minghua: debian/control
[11:01] <minghua> raphink: package description then?  I am pretty sure homepage is not required there
[11:01] <raphink> minghua: I know it is not, that's what I said :)
[11:01] <phanatic> raphink: okay, i admit that it's only a tiny issue...
[11:02] <phanatic> minghua: not required, but once included, it is supposed to begin with a space
[11:02] <minghua> raphink: yeah, and I am backing you up :-)
[11:02] <raphink> phanatic: well when you refer to Homepage in debian/control, you can use dholbach's expression of "get more points for this". This is referenced as a nice packaging practice, but it is not required
[11:02] <raphink> minghua: :)
[11:02] <minghua> raphink: you seems to be giving in ;-)
[11:03] <raphink> phanatic: still I agree it is nice to advice it, since its' a great info to have in Description, very useful
[11:03] <raphink> minghua: :)
[11:03] <dholbach> did i say that? "get more points"? :)
[11:03] <minghua> phanatic: that's true, I remember reading something similar
[11:03] <raphink> dholbach: didn't you?
[11:03] <dholbach> not sure :)
[11:03] <raphink> dholbach: I'm pretty sure it's from you i've stolen this expression ;)
[11:03] <raphink> lol
[11:03] <raphink> or a similar one
[11:03] <phanatic> raphink: it's already included in the description, but not well "formatted"
[11:04] <raphink> I might have changed the contents a bit but I keep the copyright ;)
[11:04] <raphink> phanatic: sure, just remember that "not well" is no policy in this case, just a an advice and should sound so
[11:04] <raphink> ;)
[11:05] <phanatic> raphink: okay, next time i'll be careful ;)
[11:05] <raphink> :)
[11:08] <phanatic> i'm going offline now... i'm at uni :)
[11:08] <phanatic> bye
[11:12] <ArmeBosse> raphink: un autre passage en revu si tu as le temps ?
[11:42] <Tonio_> hello
[11:42] <tux> hi
[11:45] <Gloubiboulga> hello Tonio_
[11:46] <Tonio_> hello Gloubiboulga
[11:46] <Tonio_> Gloubiboulga: we need to check out what happens with *netswitch
[11:46] <Gloubiboulga> yep
[11:46] <Tonio_> better ask elmo or kamion
[01:21] <kelmo_lap> hi siretart
[01:25] <siretart> hi kelmo_lap
[01:26] <siretart> kelmo_lap: you probably noticed that I worked on some documentation in our experimental branch. Do you think that branch is ready for debian/experimental?
[01:26] <kelmo_lap> siretart, err, i'd like to see a few more days please
[01:26] <siretart> ok
[01:27] <kelmo_lap> and i'll elaborate on that shortly
[01:27] <siretart> great :)
[01:27] <kelmo_lap> but, i agree it is getting close to that target ; )
[01:27] <kelmo_lap> i have some small issues that need discussion
[01:28] <kelmo_lap> finer points of the pre-up / wpa_sp / wpa_cli interactions
[01:28] <siretart> ah
[01:28] <kelmo_lap> specifically: providing the ssid/psk/passwrd etc in ascii or hew
[01:28] <kelmo_lap> s/hew/hex
[01:28] <kelmo_lap> i do not think you'll like what i'm about to say
[01:28] <siretart> we'll see
[01:29] <kelmo_lap> bu it *is* what upstream has provided us
[01:29] <kelmo_lap> but*
[01:29] <kelmo_lap> ascii stuff needs to be "inside"
[01:29] <kelmo_lap> hew stuff needs no quoting
[01:29] <kelmo_lap> hex* <jeez>
[01:30] <kelmo_lap> so, to handle both, ascii stuff should be quoted in the e/n/i stanza
[01:30] <kelmo_lap> wpa-ssid "MadWifiAP"
[01:30] <kelmo_lap> for example
[01:30] <kelmo_lap> wpa-psk "ascii.secret"
[01:31] <crimsun> no, we should not force users to meticulously use anything different from ordinary wireless-extensions syntax
[01:31] <kelmo_lap> alternatively, we'd have to handle typsetting of these vars
[01:32] <kelmo_lap> crimsun, this is what Jouni has provided us
[01:32] <crimsun> if /e/n/i allows ascii without quotes, _we_ need to quote them behind the scenes
[01:32] <kelmo_lap> ok, suggestions to minimally handle hex?
[01:32] <kelmo_lap> and distinguish between hex and asci
[01:33] <kelmo_lap> as provided by e/n/i
[01:33] <crimsun> w-e uses s:foo and foo
[01:33] <kelmo_lap> wpa_supplicany does not ; )
[01:33] <crimsun> foo is assumed to be hex, s:foo an ascii
[01:33] <kelmo_lap> hmm
[01:34] <kelmo_lap> that is handle by w-e. but not its ifupdown script, afaik
[01:34] <kelmo_lap> handled*
[01:34] <kelmo_lap> damn my typing sucks . . .
[01:35] <crimsun> well we're going to have to write our own ifupdown parsers, so to speak, anyway
[01:37] <kelmo_lap> mmm
[01:37] <kelmo_lap> well, let me commit the last stuff i just worked on
[01:37] <kelmo_lap> then you can give me some directive for the next few days ; )
[01:40] <kelmo_lap> ok, we can now append a new network to any existing configuration
[02:03] <MrFaber_> hi all
[02:04] <MrFaber_> Does anyone know the loop-aes-source maintainer for dapper?
[02:04] <azeem> apt-cache showsrc loop-aes-source | grep ^Maint ?
[02:05] <MrFaber_> azeem, thanks
[02:05] <MrFaber_> with mail address, cool
[02:05] <MrFaber_> in launchpad was no mail address afaik
[02:05] <MrFaber_> thx
[02:06] <azeem> MrFaber_: eh, wait
[02:06] <azeem> what do you want to do?
[02:10] <azeem> MrFaber_: that guy is probably maintaining it for Debian only, so there is no use in mailing him
[02:10] <azeem> MrFaber_: if you have issues or feature requests for the package you should file a bug in Malone, I guess
[02:11] <MrFaber_> azeem, ups
[02:11] <MrFaber_> :)
[02:11] <MrFaber_> BTW I have made a bug report in malone
[02:11] <MrFaber_> weeks ago
[02:11] <MrFaber_> azeem, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/loop-aes-source/+bug/30230
[02:11] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30230 in loop-aes-source "loop-aes module can't be created in Dapper Drake" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
[02:11] <MrFaber_> azeem, but Launchpad is very strange to manage imho
[02:12] <MrFaber_> Ubugtu, thats it
[02:12] <MrFaber_> damn, I have already send the mail :)
[02:12] <kelmo_lap> crimsun, siretart, any ideas about hex/ascii before i detach tonight?
[02:13] <crimsun> none fleshed out, in a meeting atm
[02:13] <MrFaber_> Ok, so there is no way to got contact information for the ubuntu maintainer?
[02:13] <azeem> MrFaber_: the MOTUs are the Ubuntu maintainer
[02:13] <kelmo_lap> crimsun, no probs, will be back to think again another time
[02:13] <MrFaber_> azeem, And who is the MOTU for loop-aes? :)
[02:14] <azeem> MrFaber_: universe is team maintained, there is no destinct maintainer for each pacakge
[02:14] <MrFaber_> debian sid loop-aes-source works fine under  dapper
[02:14] <MrFaber_> so theoretically only a merge is needed
[02:14] <MrFaber_> azeem, ok
[02:14] <azeem> MrFaber_: then you should add that information to the bug if you haven't done so
[02:14] <azeem> and get a MOTU to request a sync
[02:15] <azeem> it's a new upstream version though, so that might not be easy
[02:15] <MrFaber_> How request a sync?
[02:16] <azeem> I am not the best to ask about those procedural issues
[02:18] <MrFaber_> azeem, ok, I have changed the description
[02:18] <MrFaber_> azeem, thanks anyway
[02:20] <MrFaber_> azeem, but who is the launchpad expert? :)
[02:23] <torkel> MrFaber_: the guys in #launchpad :-)
[02:24] <MrFaber_> LOL
[02:24] <MrFaber_> :) ok thanks
[02:33] <MrFaber_> azeem, MrFaber_, I suggest you go back to #ubuntu-motu, because I can't really understand what you're doing
[02:33] <MrFaber_> and torkel :)
[02:36] <MrFaber_> I feel like Asterix and Obelix in the house with the passes :)
[02:36] <MrFaber_> So every MOTU can change universe packages?
[02:37] <MrFaber_> *every universe package
[02:38] <freeflying> shall we included the README.Debian in debian/ dir ?
[02:38] <azeem> freeflying: only if you have something to say in it
[02:39] <crimsun> MrFaber_: yes. We maintain universe and multiverse as a team.
[02:40] <freeflying> need all package use debhelper5?
[02:40] <azeem> freeflying: no, only if you use the new features
[02:41] <kelmo_lap> siretart, perhaps we should add a small preinst to clean up legacy init scripts
[02:41] <azeem> using debhelper5 makes backporting harder, so I think one should Depend on it if not necessary
[02:41] <MrFaber_> crimsun, who can fix loop-aes-source :)
[02:41] <crimsun> MrFaber_: anyone can fix it
[02:41] <freeflying> azeem: and how about the docs file n debian/ dir
[02:41] <MrFaber_> Who is anyone ;)
[02:42] <azeem> freeflying: what about it?
[02:42] <freeflying> azeem: included with README TODO ,etc.
[02:42] <MrFaber_> crimsun, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/loop-aes-source/+bug/30230
[02:42] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30230 in loop-aes-source "loop-aes module can't be created in Dapper Drake" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
[02:43] <MrFaber_> I like Ubugtu :)
[02:43] <azeem> freeflying: I'd check those files whether they have something useful to say
[02:43] <azeem> freeflying: if they are just boilerplate, I wouldn't include the
[02:44] <freeflying> azeem: actually , we can use rules to solve these file
[02:44] <azeem> freeflying: that's the other possibility, yes
[02:45] <freeflying> azeem: is the dirs necessiry?
[02:45] <azeem> freeflying: it's used by dh_installdirs
[02:45] <MrFaber_> Should I bake a cake so that loop-aes-source gets fixed/merged? :D
[02:46] <freeflying> azeem: the packager has provider .install
[02:46] <azeem> MrFaber_: search the wiki for the proper procedure
[02:46] <crimsun> freeflying: I can't get to it right now; I'm in a meeting.
[02:46] <crimsun> freeflying: sorry
[02:46] <crimsun> MrFaber_: I can't get to it right now; I'm in a meeting.
[02:46] <azeem> freeflying: dirs is rather during make install time, .install is afterwards
[02:46] <MrFaber_> not today
[02:46] <MrFaber_> not tomorrow
[02:46] <azeem> freeflying: properly written build systems shouldn't use it, so I'd just remove it and see whether there are problems
[02:47] <MrFaber_> only before dapper release please
[02:47] <MrFaber_> :)
[02:48] <freeflying> azeem: some guy dosen't provide description in his patch , is that ok ?
[02:49] <azeem> freeflying: are you reviewing packages on REVU, or what kind of patch are you talking about exactly?
[02:49] <siretart> kelmo_lap: sorry for not being responsive atm, I'm at university right now.
[02:49] <freeflying> azeem: I'm reviewing on REVU
[02:49] <kelmo_lap> siretart, this is what irc is all about, no need fr apologies
[02:52] <siretart> :)
[02:54] <kelmo_lap> siretart, i dropped some code into pre-up to calculate the last network_id, then we create the new network block on last_network_id++
[02:54] <kelmo_lap> siretart, so we could possibly define new networks on top of an existing configuration
[02:54] <kelmo_lap> siretart, the code is mawk compatible
[02:54] <siretart> hm. I'm not sure if its worth the efford. for more complex setups we can assume the user to be able to supply a working wpa_supplicant conf and fall back to mode 2
[02:54] <siretart> cool
[02:55] <kelmo_lap> no, it is quite simple
[02:55] <kelmo_lap> so its no burden
[02:55] <siretart> ah, cool
[02:55] <kelmo_lap> although it did take some time to test it ; )
[02:55] <siretart> if its already 'there' :)
[02:55] <freeflying> azeem: also we shall remove config.guess and config.sub
[02:55] <kelmo_lap> siretart, awk power, i'm signing off
[02:55] <kelmo_lap> gn8
[02:56] <azeem> freeflying: so about the patch question:  patches need not be commented, though if the patch system allows (I think all do), having a comment at the top of each patch (or in debian/changelog) would be nice to have
[02:58] <freeflying> azeem: if you provide patch , then the patch shall be put under debian/patches , right ?
[02:58] <azeem> that's good practise, yes
[02:58] <azeem> if you modify a current package, I think you should follow its current practise though, however sensible it is
[03:04] <kelmo_lap> siretart, just one thing, i put a TODO file into svn, so we can track some items that require attention there
[03:05] <kelmo_lap> siretart, so please add some items that require work there, if you like
[03:05] <freeflying> azeem: also we shall remove config.guess and config.sub
[03:05] <azeem> freeflying: I don't the context of that
[03:06] <azeem> better ask the whole channel, somebody else might know better
[03:06] <siretart> kelmo_lap: great idea
[03:06] <freeflying> siretart:  shall we remove config.guess and config.sub from package
[03:12] <TMM> hey, odd question: is it possible to run ubuntu 32bit with the amd64 kernel?
[03:12] <Ubugtu> ubuntu bug 32 in 3270 "3270: 5250 emulation code, all rights reserved" [Normal,Resolved: notwarty]  http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=32
[03:13] <TMM> 32bit kernel b0rks on the agp bus of a friends computer, but, his @#$@#$ lexmark drivers won't run in amd64
[03:13] <TMM> also, he likes to play return to castle wolfenstein
[03:14] <TMM> the alternative would be to run cups in a chroot...
[03:30] <siretart> freeflying: yes, its a good idea to clean them in the 'clean' target of debian/rules
[03:31] <freeflying> siretart: thx
[06:33] <ejofee> i've just heard that ubuntu wants to adopt lindows' click'n'run. if this happens, then how will it avoid breaking some of the strong promises made by ubuntu, that (approx) "there will never be an extra price for a commercial version"?
[06:34] <hub> ejofee: heard where?
[06:34] <ejofee> every
[06:34] <ejofee> (where)
[06:34] <hub> url?
[06:34] <ejofee> hub: wait
[06:35] <ejofee> hub: http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7474779842.html
[06:35] <ejofee> hub: linspire is actually lindows
[06:36] <ejofee> hub: if that happens, do you think it won't mean breaking that promise?
[06:36] <hub> I classify that as "speculation"
[06:37] <ejofee> hub: wow, that'd be cool
[06:37] <ejofee> (to be mere speculation)
[06:38] <ejofee> hub: do you think ubuntu devs would be against cnr anyway?
[06:40] <ejofee> hub: what a silly (manipulative) way to put it: "No way! Linspire is evil and I want nothing to do with them! (9 percent)"
[06:41] <ejofee> "there will never be an extra price for a commercial version" is what i like most about ubuntu.
[06:42] <siretart> ejofee: lindows is considering offering such a service. not ubuntu
[06:43] <ejofee> Ubuntu users could choose to simply use apt, OR, for those who want the one-click convenience of CNR, they could try CNR for free for 15 days, and if they like it, pay for the service [$20 per year] 
[06:45] <ejofee> siretart: lindows earns the money with cnr, while ubuntu doesn't; won't this become a tempting business model for ubuntu?
[06:47] <siretart> ejofee: ubuntu doesn't earn any money, canonical does
[06:47] <ejofee> siretart: access to codecs repos (and howtos on that) could be made more non-trivial, just like mandriva non-(club members) lack some privileges.
[06:47] <siretart> ejofee: canonical has not commented yet on this, but I doubt they have interest
[06:48] <siretart> ejofee: if you could provide access to codec repos, we would do. unfortunately, we cannot
[06:48] <siretart> err, if we could provide
[06:48] <ejofee> siretart: i don't only doubt. i also hope not.
[06:48] <siretart> out of question, right
[06:50] <ejofee> whatever canonical's business model, i hope they'll observe this principle: never to charge for software or access to software, but only services or (strictly) customized distros.
[06:51] <hub> hey dholbach_
[06:51] <hub> ....
[06:54] <LaserJock> morning MOTUs
[06:55] <LaserJock> anybody know what the default Python version is in Debian stable?
[06:55] <azeem> 2.3
[06:55] <azeem> ii  python            2.3.5-2
[06:56] <LaserJock> so python2.3 for stable, testing, and unstable?
[06:57] <azeem> I think so, yes
[06:57] <LaserJock> azeem: k, thanks
[07:07] <LaserJock> azeem: I've got a question for you regarding GaussSum
[07:07] <azeem> sure
[07:08] <LaserJock> azeem: it is about the Python version dependencies. I made a stable build for upstream to distribute on their website.
[07:09] <LaserJock> azeem: in the debian/control I've got ${python:Depends} in the dependecy
[07:10] <LaserJock> azeem: when I build the .deb I end up with  python (>= 2.3), python (<< 2.4)
[07:10] <LaserJock> azeem: but it works fine with python2.4 so should I manually set the Python dependency
[07:10] <azeem> hrm, unfortunately, I don't quite see through all this python policy mess either
[07:11] <azeem> can you remind me whether it ships any files in /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages or so?
[07:12] <LaserJock> no
[07:12] <LaserJock> it just uses python
[07:13] <azeem> I'd say it would be fine to just depend on `python' then, but don't take this as authorative
[07:13] <LaserJock> doh, wait, it does actually
[07:13] <LaserJock> sorry, I had to go back and check
[07:18] <azeem> LaserJock: well, not sure then, with all that byte-compiling or not and stuff
[07:18] <azeem> there have been talks about clarifying/unifying python policy in Debian, but nothing conclusive yet I think
[07:19] <LaserJock> azeem: I've got to go right now. I'll read over the Python Policy again and check in with you in about an hour.
[07:19] <azeem> LaserJock: maybe ask doko if he's around
[07:19] <azeem> I gotta go now as well
[07:19] <LaserJock> ok
[08:04] <Xoritor> ok so i have most of this working only i am not sure how (where) to "install" the binaires (built by pbuilder) in the install section of the debian/rules file
[08:05] <Xoritor> anyone give me a hint?
[08:05] <Xoritor> it needs to end up being installed into /usr/sbin/
[08:05] <Xoritor> ie... dpkg or apt installing the .deb needs to place the binary in /usr/sbin
[08:06] <Xoritor> but my sources are not "automake friendly"
[08:06] <Xoritor> :-(
[08:06] <Xoritor> so i am trying to use an install line directly
[08:06] <Xoritor> install binary /usr/sbin/binary does not work
[08:06] <Xoritor> any tips?
[08:06] <crimsun> no, if you're specifying the path in debian/rules, you need to make the path relative to $(pwd)
[08:07] <crimsun> i.e., $(pwd)/debian/$package/usr/sbin/
[08:07] <Xoritor> ok
[08:07] <crimsun> where $package is either the name of the package or 'tmp' depending on your dh usage
[08:07] <Xoritor> i also tried this
[08:07] <crimsun> keep in mind you can also use debian/foo.install
[08:08] <Xoritor> install binary $(CURDIR)/debian/usr/sbin/binary
[08:08] <Xoritor> hmm
[08:08] <Xoritor> which would be better?
[08:08] <crimsun> that's maintainer preference
[08:08] <Xoritor> but that didnt work cause i need the "package name" right?
[08:09] <crimsun> yes, foo is the package name
[08:10] <crimsun> if you want to place a specific binary somewhere, then it's probably easier to use debian/rules
[08:10] <crimsun> s/binary/file/
[08:10] <Xoritor> yea
[08:11] <Xoritor> so it should be something like  install binary $(CURDIR)/debian/foo/usr/sbin/binary
[08:11] <Xoritor> the exact error is
[08:12] <Xoritor> install: cannot create regular file `/tmp/buildd/snortsam-2.47/debian/snortsam-2.47/usr/sbin/snortsam': No such file or directory
[08:12] <crimsun> debian/snortsam-2.47/ seems incorrect
[08:13] <crimsun> i.e., your package name should NOT be snortsam-2.47
[08:13] <Xoritor> aah
[08:13] <Xoritor> so just snortsam?
[08:13] <crimsun> yes; isn't that what you specified in debian/control?
[08:13] <Xoritor> that seems to have worked... thx...
[08:13] <Xoritor> heh
[08:13] <crimsun> in the future, debugging using install -D will probably help
[08:14] <Xoritor> yay
[08:14] <Xoritor> aaah yes... i should have thought of that
[08:15] <Xoritor> thx again crimsun
[08:15] <crimsun> np
[08:16] <Xoritor> that did the trick just right
[08:18] <Xoritor> this is my very first package from 100% complete scratch
[08:18] <Xoritor> hehehe
[08:21] <LaserJock> anybody got gmail  here?
[08:21] <crimsun> yes but rarely used
[08:22] <LaserJock> crimsun: umm, I'd like to get one.
[08:22] <crimsun> just ask in #ubuntu
[08:22] <crimsun> because I never use mine, I don't have any offers
[08:22] <LaserJock> crimsun: ahh, good idea
[08:23] <crimsun> s/offers/invites/
[08:25] <Xoritor> i thought anyone could sign up now
[08:25] <LaserJock> Xoritor: I couldn't see where.
[08:26] <LaserJock> and since I know *everybody* has got one I thought it would be easier just to get somebody to invite me
[08:26] <Xoritor> lol
[08:26] <Xoritor> right
[08:26] <BlueT_> LaserJock: i have gmail invitation :)
[08:27] <Xoritor> i would but i dont have gmail
[08:27] <Xoritor> heh
[08:27] <Xoritor> my wife does so if you cant get a quick invite let me know and i will get her to invite you
[08:27] <BlueT_> LaserJock: would you like to have one? :)
[08:28] <crimsun> he has one now
[08:28] <BlueT_> crimsun: okay :)
[08:28] <Xoritor> i would like $1
[08:28] <Xoritor> :-D
[08:28] <Xoritor> with that i could get some chocolate
[08:28] <BlueT_> ubuntu-* are really the most friendly communities in the world. :)
[08:29] <Xoritor> i agree
[08:29] <BlueT_> Xoritor: :p
[08:29] <Xoritor> i worked for Red Hat for 3 years and they are nice but not AS nice
[08:29] <Xoritor> thanks!
[08:29] <Xoritor> heh
[08:31] <BlueT_> ooops...
[08:31] <BlueT_> what did i do? lol
[08:31] <LaserJock> hmm, did BlueT_ just get kicked from #ubuntu
[08:32] <crimsun> yes
[08:32] <LaserJock> gotta watch that dcc stuff I guess
[08:32] <crimsun> Ubugtu kicks on any public string with "dcc send"
[08:32] <LaserJock> yikes
[08:32] <BlueT_> oops.
[08:32] <Xoritor> doh
[08:32] <Xoritor> thx anyways ;-)
[08:33] <crimsun> removed.
[08:33] <BlueT_> and i'm banned :S
[08:33] <crimsun> no, you're unbanned.
[08:33] <BlueT_> crimsun: thx so much, crimsun :)
[08:33] <Xoritor> thx crimsun i was about to start feeling bad
[08:33] <crimsun> np
[08:36] <BlueT_> i guess maybe i should login here from (apt|www).ubuntu.org.tw next time..
[08:37] <ejofee> does dapper include xgl?
[08:37] <BlueT_> ejofee: yes
[08:38] <ejofee> oh, right, i have just been directed to #ubuntu-xgl. thank you anyway.
[08:39] <BlueT_> ejofee: my pleasure :)
[08:40] <Xoritor> hehe
[08:40] <Xoritor> but not for amd64 yet right... last i read it was all still compile your own for amd64
[08:41] <Xoritor> of course i could be wrong
[09:05] <Xoritor> is it acceptable to link from /etc/snortsam.conf to /etc/snortsam/snortsam.conf
[09:06] <Xoritor> or from /etc/snortsam/snortsam.conf to /etc/snortsam.conf
[09:09] <crimsun> why for, backward compatibility?
[09:09] <Xoritor> just cause thats where snortsam looks for its config by default
[09:10] <Xoritor> its not hard to have the init script tell it where to find it
[09:10] <crimsun> it makes more sense to pass a custom conffile location to the initscript
[09:10] <Xoritor> to me also... just testing the waters
[09:11] <crimsun> really depends how you wish to organise it
[09:11] <Xoritor> i wish it neat and in its own dir
[09:11] <Xoritor> ;-)
[09:11] <crimsun> that would be my pref, too
[09:11] <Xoritor> contained not cluttered
[09:12] <Xoritor> then have a defaults that specifies the location of the config file and use that in the init.d script
[09:16] <LaserJock> hi marcin
[09:17] <marcin> LaserJock: hi
[09:35] <lucas> hi
[09:36] <LaserJock> hi lucas
[10:02] <Xoritor> is there a dh_something that installs the stuff into /etc/default/packagename from the debian/packagename-default location?
[10:03] <Xoritor> ie... dh_installinit installs the init.d script into /etc/init.d as packagename
[10:04] <Xoritor> ah ha
[10:04] <Xoritor> never mind
[10:04] <Xoritor> missed it in the manual
[10:04] <Xoritor> it should be named as packagename.default not packagename-default
[10:10] <siretart> is anyone besides \sh working on wine?
[10:11] <Xoritor> not i... (maybe my wife is working on a good bottle of wine right now?)
[10:11] <Xoritor> j/k
[10:11] <Xoritor> sorry couldnt resist
[10:19] <LarstiQ> Hi, I only recently upgraded to dapper, and now I discover zsh has a too old version in the archive. What would be the correct procedure to ask for a new one?
[10:20] <LarstiQ> disregarding freezes and all that for now
[10:20] <Xoritor> email the maintainer i would guess
[10:21] <Xoritor> check the bug lists/reports for others wanting it updated
[10:21] <LarstiQ> that's still set to Clint, who maintains it in Debian. I'm not sure he really does Ubuntu
[10:21] <LarstiQ> Xoritor: none there
[10:21] <Xoritor> see if there is a reason not to update
[10:21] <Xoritor> you can do what im doing also... i will have the fix for them :-D
[10:21] <Xoritor> heh
[10:21] <LarstiQ> Xoritor: hmm, imminent release of dapper, that's all
[10:21] <Xoritor> yea
[10:22] <LarstiQ> but I'd like my shell of choice to actually work with utf8 in dapper
[10:22] <Xoritor> well i figure if i can get the stuff built and maintain it for dapper then by the next release it may be fixed ;-)
[10:22] <Xoritor> or updated
[10:22] <Xoritor> or upgraded
[10:22] <Xoritor> or...
[10:23] <Xoritor> so thats what i am doing... fixing it myself and seeing if the maintainers want to use what i have done
[10:23] <Xoritor> but then thats the "hard way"
[10:23] <Xoritor> asking them for a fix is the easy way...
[10:24] <LarstiQ> the debian package works fine, so not much work required I'd say
[10:26] <Xoritor> so its up to you... fix it yourself and suggest your fix be used, or ask them to fix it
[10:26] <Xoritor> i prefer to do the work and let them choose if they want to use it... and if they dont i still can
[10:27] <LarstiQ> right.
[10:27] <Xoritor> if i were the maintainer and someone fixed it for me i would be happy (if they did it right)... and after checking i would happily include it (again if it were done right)
[10:27] <LaserJock> LarstiQ: is the zsh version too old in Ubuntu or in Debian too?
[10:27] <LarstiQ> LaserJock: only in Ubuntu
[10:27] <LaserJock> LarstiQ: we could ask for a UVF exception
[10:27] <LarstiQ> LaserJock: I believe the Sid version was at 4.3 before the UVF set in, but my memory might fool me
[10:28] <LaserJock> zsh |    4.3.1-1 |      unstable
[10:28] <LaserJock> zsh | 4.2.5-23ubuntu2 |        dapper
[10:28] <LarstiQ> first upload of 4.3 was december 27th
[10:29] <LarstiQ> LaserJock: how do we go about asking for the exception?
[10:29] <LaserJock> LarstiQ: is it in Main or Universe?
[10:30] <LaserJock> Main it looks like
[10:30] <LarstiQ> main
[10:30] <LaserJock> hmm, I would talk to -devel
[10:31] <LaserJock> you would probably need to get mdz or Kamion to ok it
[10:33] <LaserJock> LarstiQ: the info needed will be changelogs and debdiffs with diff stats. Take a look at the ubuntu-motu mailing list archives if you need some ideas
[10:33] <LaserJock> netzmeister: Guten Abend!
[10:33] <netzmeister> hi LaserJock  ;-)
[10:33] <netzmeister> good evening
[10:34] <LarstiQ> LaserJock: -devel the list or the channel? Changelog and debdiff are easy to provide
[10:34] <crimsun> 4.2.5 -> 4.3.1 is a rather big change
[10:35] <LaserJock> LarstiQ: You might start with the channel
[10:36] <LaserJock> netzmeister: Wie geht es dir?
[10:36] <LarstiQ> crimsun: yeah, I'm surprised it is still at 4.2
[10:37] <LaserJock> ah, interesting
[10:37] <LarstiQ> siretart: yeah, I installed that for now too
[10:38] <netzmeister> LaserJock:  fine, thx. and you?
[10:38] <LaserJock> netzmeister: gut, danke
[10:38] <netzmeister> LaserJock:  ;-)
[10:38] <netzmeister> LaserJock:  Do you use a translator?
[10:39] <LaserJock> netzmeister: not yet
[10:39] <LaserJock> netzmeister: beschftigt, aber gut
[10:39] <LaserJock> that was though
[10:40] <siretart> hey, LaserJock learning german. great :)
[10:40] <LaserJock> siretart: yeah, now that I'm a MOTU I thought I should learn the language ;-)
[10:41] <siretart> hrhr
[10:41] <LaserJock> I'm tired of being a unilingual American so I thought I'd try to pick some up
[10:42] <LaserJock> I'd like to learn some French to so I can go visit raphink
[10:43] <siretart> uuh, I'd need to improve my french a lot
[10:43] <siretart> I had it in school for 4 years..
[10:45] <netzmeister> hmm i'd need to improve my german :-D
[10:46] <siretart> lol
[10:47] <LaserJock> hmm, I need to figure out how to be able to type in German in OSX
[10:49] <siretart> just use oe, ue and ae for umlauts
[10:53] <LaserJock> yikes, I can change to a German keyboard layout
[10:54] <siretart> us layouts are so much better to code
[10:55] <LaserJock> ahh, I figured out how to use the US extended layout to do the funky stuff ;-)
[10:55] <LaserJock> so is beschftigt really "busy"? seems kinda long
[11:00] <lucas> I've been unable to keep up with ubuntu development. Could sbody update me regarding syncs status ?
[11:00] <lucas> are syncs processed now ?
[11:00] <LaserJock> they don't seem to be
[11:00] <LaserJock> a few maybe but I haven't seen any of mine roll by
[11:00] <lucas> this is starting to be annoying, a month from the release
[11:01] <crimsun> lucas: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000545.html
[11:01] <lucas> crimsun: that's for UVF exceptions, but thanks, I was looking for this mail :)
[11:01] <crimsun> syncs are processed when elmo has time; he appears to have been battling LP lately
[11:02] <LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, you requested a couple for me a long time ago, I haven't seen those yet.
[11:02] <lucas> if they are all processed a week before the release, we are not going to be able to solve bugs ...
[11:03] <siretart> lucas: we are aware of the problem
[11:03] <lucas> ok
[11:03] <ogra> syncs are processed if the LP handler is ready
[11:04] <LaserJock> ogra: what does that mean?
[11:04] <ogra> until then they are queued
[11:04] <lucas> ogra: I'm not ranting :-)
[11:04] <lucas> just being concerned
[11:04] <ogra> elmos scripts get ported to LP
[11:04] <LaserJock> ah, ok
[11:04] <crimsun> (see above about elmo battling LP)
[11:05] <ogra> yeah
[11:05] <ogra> he's doing between 16 and 19h of work/day since 3 months now, bear with him
[11:05] <LaserJock> well, what version is going to be synced? the one that is current when elmo gets to it or when it was requested. The former I think
[11:06] <crimsun> LaserJock: that's still a win-win situation
[11:06] <ogra> yeah
[11:07] <LaserJock> ogra: I know, it seems like a constant problem that he is overly busy. Is there any plans to be able allow him to delegate
[11:08] <ajmitch_> hi
[11:08] <ogra> no need for that once the launchpad infrastructure is done
[11:08] <crimsun> hi ajmitch_
[11:09] <ogra> LaserJock, actually the LP stuff will take 60% workload off elmo ... but the migration requires him to help
[11:09] <ogra> so that takes time
[11:09] <LaserJock> ok, that makes sense
[11:10] <LaserJock> crimsun: well, I like it but I'm a bit worried that I should check the packages that I asked for a sync to make sure any newer versions are ok to sync
[11:12] <crimsun> well, yes, that's a given
[11:13] <crimsun> if they're syncable when you ask, they should remain syncable at any point in the future, else you'd have created a merge delta anyway
[11:14] <LaserJock> I suppose, unless Debian does something funky that then would turn it into a merge. I doubt that would happen with the sync request I have but I was just thinking ...
[11:19] <Pygi> how do I get around this?
[11:19] <Pygi> dpkg-source: cannot represent change to Scribes/textview.pyc: binary file contents changed
[11:20] <Pygi> thanks ^^
[11:20] <siretart> Pygi: delete *pyc files in debian/rules clean target
[11:22] <skateinmars> hello everybody
[11:23] <siretart> hi skateinmars
[11:23] <siretart> anyone want to play guinea pig for new wine packages?
[11:24] <skateinmars> I had a little question :)
[11:25] <skateinmars> Can we hope having cinelerra in universe?
[11:28] <siretart> skateinmars: you really think it is mature enough for packaging it?
[11:29] <siretart> skateinmars: anyway, since we are past feature freeze, you could start preparing packages for dapper+1
[11:29] <siretart> we could perhaps backport them for dapper somewhen
[11:29] <skateinmars> I don't know, I didn't try it so long
[11:30] <Pygi> siretart: I don't have them there :-/ ?
[11:30] <skateinmars> I never did build any packages :/