[12:02] <Seveas> infinity, sounds like bistromathics during happy hour ;)
[12:09] <wil`yum> is there a channel or on-line forum where i can find out about testing?
[12:10] <Seveas> wil`yum, people who test Ubuntu dapper hang out in #ubuntu+1
[12:11] <wil`yum> thank you Seveas
[12:12] <siretart> does some other ia32-libs-* package provide libasound2?
[12:13] <siretart> any objections to name the new ia32-libs package ia32-libs-games, containing sdl and asound for now? this is whats needed for commercial games. Kamion: would you accept this for universe?
[12:18] <siretart> Kamion: ?
[12:19] <Seveas> --- [Kamion]  idle 01:06:11, signon: Wed Mar  8 07:44:08
[12:19] <Seveas> wouldn't surprise me if he's sleeping
[12:19] <siretart> ah, ok
[12:19] <infinity> Who authorised that?
[12:19] <Seveas> lol 
[12:20] <siretart> ah, hi infinity 
[12:20] <tseng> Sleep exception authorized by Matt Zimmerman
[12:20] <siretart> infinity: I asked doko before, he told me to apply a patch from mrvn and only include really needed libraries
[12:21] <siretart> infinity: I have now a ia32-libs-games package ready for upload, containing libsdl and libasound2
[12:21] <infinity> tseng: I'll have to have a word with Matt about that one.  If we let Colin sleep, the release will never happen.
[12:21] <siretart> infinity: whom do I need to ask for authorisation to upload?
[12:21] <infinity> siretart: Have you double-checked that asound doesn't live somewhere else?
[12:22] <infinity> siretart: Like, say, lib32asound2
[12:22] <infinity> (maybe?)
[12:22] <siretart> interesting. since when do we have that package?
[12:22] <infinity> It's been a few weeks, I think.
[12:22] <siretart> ah, I see.
[12:24] <doko> siretart: so probably ia32-libs-games should depend on lib32asound2
[12:24] <siretart> doko: yepp. will do
[12:24] <sivang> Seveas: who started #ubuntu+1 ?
[12:24] <sivang> Seveas: and since when? :)
[12:25] <Seveas> ompaul and myself did that quite recently
[12:25] <Seveas> to reduce the traffic in #ubuntu
[12:25] <sivang> Seveas: ah, sounds good. I see there are many users there, nice.
[12:25] <siretart> doko: should it be called ia32-libs-games or ia32-libs-sdl? it contains just sdl libs for now
[12:25] <sivang> Seveas: did it helps for hte ubuntu traffic?
[12:25] <Seveas> Freenode having a burp helped better
[12:25] <Seveas> but I got mad at lilo for that ;)
[12:26] <Seveas> but yeah, it helps
[12:26] <sivang> Seveas: he told me there are some servers added etc, I wonder if this ever took place..
[12:27] <Seveas> few days ago the complete net was restarted
[12:27] <Seveas> and some fuckups in the code caused everyone to be kicked from #ubuntu
[12:27] <Seveas> never been more quiet in there
[12:28] <sivang> hehe
[12:28] <sivang> send lilo my thanks :)
[12:28] <Burgwork> Seveas, how do I go about getting a mask?
[12:29] <Seveas> step one is becoming a member
[12:29] <Seveas> step two is poking me
[12:29] <Seveas> having done both, you should just wait until I talk to lilo again
[12:30] <Burgwork> can I have it for Burgundavia and Burglaptop as well?
[12:30] <Seveas> you should link them
[12:30] <infinity> Burgwork: Those should be aliases under one nickserv account.
[12:30] <Seveas>  /ns link Burgundavia burgundavias_password
[12:30] <Seveas> same for BurgLaptop
[12:30] <sivang> isn't Burgwork a member?
[12:30] <Burgwork> work and laptop are linked to Burgundavia
[12:31] <Seveas> sivang, of course he is
[12:32] <Seveas> there are now 75 people with ubuntu/member cloaks
[12:32] <Burgwork> Seveas, cheers, thanks
[12:33] <Seveas> Burgwork, you wil be the 76th, I didn't speak to lilo yet
[12:33] <Burgwork> Seveas, I am thanking you in advance
[12:33] <Seveas> hehe, you're welcome
[12:34] <siretart> infinity: assuming that there are no other packages providing 32bit sdl, I have a ia32-libs-sdl package ready. it depends on lib32asound2 and makes my quake4 work. whom do I need to ask for permission to upload this?
[12:35] <infinity> siretart: Kamion/mdz, I suspect.  Are you taking responsibility for watching libsdl uploads and making sure your package stays in sync with the i386 binaries in the archive?
[12:36] <siretart> infinity: in the scope of my duty as motu-games team lead, yes, I intend to do so
[12:44] <siretart> whee: cc1: error: scripttrack.c: Input/output error
[12:44] <siretart> scripttrack.c:1: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
[12:44] <siretart> Please submit a full bug report,
[12:44] <siretart> I hate it when this happens :(
[12:55] <siretart> hi mdz. 
[12:56] <siretart> (coincidence?, I just finished my mail to you)
[01:00] <mdz> siretart: good evening
[01:38] <infinity> mdz: There's yet another new upstream release of fglrx, can I get a UVF exception?  (It includes some bugfixes, and more importanly, some new hardware support)
[02:24] <DanielSHaischt> hello, I am trying to dist-upgrade a debian system to dapper. unfortunatly at the time I am getting an arror in /var/lib/dpkg/info/initscripts.postinst ...
[02:25] <DanielSHaischt> line 'mount -n --move /var/run /tmp/.var.run' at the near end of the file fails with a permission denied
[03:12] <Amaranth> mjg59: ping
[03:12] <mjg59> Amaranth: Hi
[03:12] <Amaranth> mjg59: you packaged aiglx, right?
[03:12] <mjg59> Yes
[03:13] <Amaranth> don't suppose you'd know why i'm getting ioctl(4, DECODER_SET_PICTURE, 0x7fb30fd8) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied) when i try running spiftacity
[03:14] <Amaranth> that's from strace
[03:14] <mjg59> Nope
[03:14] <Amaranth> hrm
[03:14] <Amaranth> makes it drop down to mesa indirect rendering which is slow
[03:14] <Amaranth> and i get solid white window fun
[03:15] <Amaranth> the only thing i could think of was bad permissions on /dev/dri/card0, but changing those doesn't seem to help
[03:19] <Amaranth> brb
[03:29] <Amaranth> ok, so it's definately aiglx's fault
[03:29] <Amaranth> with xorg glxinfo doesn't give me that error
[03:30] <Amaranth> wait, yes it does
[03:30] <Amaranth> but direct rendering still works
[03:30] <Amaranth> so it must be a worthless error message
[06:56] <pitti> Good morning
[06:57] <Rotund> anyone here have info about the QA position jdub advertised on his blog?
[06:58] <pitti> Rotund: yes - http://www.ubuntu.com/employment
[06:59] <Burgundavia> morning pitti
[06:59] <pitti> Hi Burgundavia, how are you?
[07:00] <Rotund> I was wondering more about things like "is it work from home?"
[07:01] <Burgundavia> pitti: not bad. Grinding through the reviews on this Ubuntu book
[07:02] <jdub> Rotund: no, it wouldn't be
[07:03] <Rotund> jdub: where would one work from?
[07:04] <jdub> Rotund: an office in montreal
[07:07] <Rotund> jdub: any chance you could give me the information on how the organization would work?  (where on works from, general expected salary, benefits)  I'm currently quite happy with my job, but the prospect of working on Linux is quite appealling.
[07:07] <Rotund> you answered the where already
[07:08] <jdub> Rotund: you should reply to the job posting using the addresses provided :-)
[07:15] <Rotund> I agree, but I was wanting a little background on the rest of what the job would entail.  I wouldn't want to apply for a job that requiring moving to Australia or such (no offense, just too far from home).  I suppose Canada also sets the "would I get health insurance?" answer =)  I'm certainly willing to take some "hit" to be able to work on Linux instead of killing people (in QA for military work now).  Anywho, thanks.
[07:16] <jdub> Rotund: you don't have to apply to reply :-)
[07:17] <jdub> ('course, i don't know if replying without applying would necessarily encourage a lot of answers, but you never know.)
[07:18] <Rotund> cool.  thanks a lot.
[07:18] <joelbryan> jdub: what do you think of this patch https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/34088 ?
[07:19] <Ubugtu> malone bug 34088 in gnome-session "[PATCH]  Logo in Logout Dialog" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[07:22] <jdub> joelbryan: it's really unnecessary branding, and looks pretty ugly actually - sorry
[07:22] <Burgundavia> joelbryan: we try and avoid over branding the desktop. It makes it difficult for our derivatives
[07:23] <jdub> that's not the reason why
[07:23] <jdub> a huge part of it is that making our software look like a sponsored racing car with stickers all over it is just ugly and intrusive
[07:26] <lifeless> yeah but racing cars get chicks in bikinis
[07:26] <lifeless> if the software came with hot chicks in bikinis....
[07:26] <Burgundavia> lifeless: down boy :)
[07:27] <jdub> lifeless: we stopped shipping porn :)
[07:27] <lifeless> jdub: and I still regret that ;)
[07:29] <ajmitch_> lifeless: weren't you getting married soon? :)
[07:29] <ajmitch_> hi viviersf 
[07:30] <viviersf> yo ajmitch_ 
[07:30] <viviersf> sup ?
[07:30] <lifeless> ajmitch_: yes
[07:30] <lifeless> ajmitch_: so the last time I'll ever have sex is approaching.... and ?
[07:31] <ajmitch_> haha
[07:34] <joelbryan> jdub: don't take those images personally, those where just my examples, I'm just helping the user what to expect with those button actions.
[07:37] <jdub> joelbryan: an ubuntu logo doesn't help the user understand what to expect. tooltips would.
[07:37] <jdub> better icons would.
[07:38] <joelbryan> a message would.
[07:38] <jdub> you can't put text in an image
[07:38] <jdub> it won't adapt to the users font settings, or be translatable (without a lot of unnecessary work)
[07:41] <joelbryan> I'm about to use Xegl with my s3 trio vc, i've been up all night.. how will i provide patches for xegl?
[07:43] <wasabi> I really dislike the current dialog btw.
[07:43] <Amaranth> send them to the xorg list
[07:43] <wasabi> Just to voice my opinion.
[07:43] <wasabi> 6 buttons is too much.
[07:43] <Amaranth> wasabi: i'm just happy we got out logout menu item back :P
[07:43] <joelbryan> Amaranth: xorg?
[07:43] <ajmitch_> wasabi: yeah, that opinion has been voiced a bit :)
[07:43] <wasabi> It's not clear or easy at all.
[07:43] <Amaranth> err, our
[07:43] <wasabi> I like apples.
[07:43] <joelbryan> is not in ubuntu?
[07:43] <wasabi> You click shutdown, it asks you if you want to.
[07:43] <wasabi> Simple.
[07:43] <Amaranth> joelbryan: xegl? no
[07:43] <wasabi> I don't propose to know where to put all the other options. ;)
[07:44] <joelbryan> I can now use vesa with xegl and compiz
[07:44] <Amaranth> joelbryan: no, you use vesa with xglx and compiz
[07:44] <Amaranth> which would be...slow
[07:45] <joelbryan> Amaranth: I'm close to it..
[07:45] <Amaranth> xegl is something completely different
[07:45] <wasabi> Also I think there is a big distinction between the two actions one might want to do: manage the machine, and manage the session.
[07:45] <Amaranth> it's basically a rewrite of the xserver to run on straight OpenGL
[07:45] <joelbryan> wasabi: yes, I think 6 buttons is too much.
[07:46] <joelbryan> there should be a way to hide those icons
[07:46] <jdub> wasabi: that's what every other system (including GNOME 2.14) does
[07:46] <wasabi> There are too many options also. I just don't know how to fix it.
[07:47] <jdub> wasabi: fix == revert to GNOME 2.14 setup :-)
[07:47] <wasabi> what the heck is the diff ebtween sleep and hibernate?
[07:47] <wasabi> even i don't know.
[07:47] <Amaranth> doesn't gnome-panel upstream basically have a copy of what OS X does?
[07:47] <jdub> sleep == ram, hibernate == disk (hibernate means you won't lose your session ever, whatever your power status)
[07:47] <jdub> Amaranth: roughly
[07:47] <Amaranth> wasabi: these are windows terms :P
[07:47] <wasabi> Here's an interesting question.
[07:47] <wasabi> I know this will be weird. ;)
[07:48] <wasabi> Why would you ever want to Shutdown, if you have Sleep and Restart available?
[07:48] <Amaranth> jdub: last time i checked the text was _exactly_ the same, gnome just had an extra button
[07:48] <wasabi> ANd Hibernate.
[07:48] <joelbryan> how about expander? titled "Other Options" and Sleep, Hibernate, Switch user and Lock screen"
[07:48] <Amaranth> wasabi: drivers suck
[07:48] <wasabi> Amaranth: excuse. :)
[07:48] <Amaranth> wasabi: zombies?
[07:49] <lifeless> wasabi: because
[07:49] <Treenaks> Amaranth: fix the zombie-causers ;)
[07:49] <wasabi> Amaranth: reboot.
[07:49] <wasabi> heh
[07:49] <Amaranth> Treenaks: you mean make burning a cd not suck? :)
[07:49] <wasabi> Reboot, Sleep, Hibernate.
[07:49] <jdub> joelbryan: that just gets in the way. look at the way it's done in GNOME 2.14 - much clearer.
[07:50] <Treenaks> Amaranth: I've never had zombies while burning CDs; zombies hate fire :P
[07:50] <Amaranth> wasabi: so now i have to reboot, wait for the computer to come back up, then sleep?
[07:50] <Burgundavia> I would even elimine hibernate
[07:50] <wasabi> Amaranth: why would you?
[07:50] <joelbryan> and the logout  _icons_ are not themeable
[07:50] <Burgundavia> if you select sleep, the system also hibernates at the same time
[07:50] <minghua> wasabi: when you want to change harddrive? ;-)
[07:50] <jdub> joelbryan: they will be
[07:50] <Burgundavia> thus if you lose power, you get the same session regardless
[07:50] <wasabi> Pssh. I know. I'm just bring up stupid points.
[07:50] <Amaranth> wasabi: i'm taking the computer somewhere and want to clear out zombies
[07:50] <joelbryan> I can fix it!
[07:50] <Amaranth> :P
[07:51] <jdub> Burgundavia: it takes a lot longer (and more power) to hibernate
[07:51] <wasabi> Well, I still maintain there is a very big difference between session and power management.
[07:51] <jdub> Burgundavia: other systems sleep until there's only enough battery left to hibernate, then they hibernate and switch off
[07:51] <wasabi> And there's no reason to combine the two.
[07:51] <Burgundavia> that is the other solution
[07:51] <Burgundavia> I wondered if that was possible
[07:51] <wasabi> System > Power;  System > Exit
[07:52] <jdub> wasabi: with different strings
[07:52] <wasabi> Power brings up *simple dialog*, Shutdown, Restart, Sleep, Hibernate.
[07:52] <joelbryan> the hibernate feature in flight cd 1 works for me, but now I got the latest release, hibernate doesn't work anymore.
[07:52] <jdub> wasabi: mark's rationale is that users want a single "go away now" button
[07:52] <wasabi> jdub: well they have 7.
[07:52] <wasabi> now.
[07:52] <joelbryan> how about Mac OSX style?
[07:52] <wasabi> The simple "go away" button should be on the front of their case.
[07:52] <wasabi> WHen you press it, it hibernates.
[07:52] <wasabi> Heh
[07:52] <jdub> wasabi: no, one single button to get to that point
[07:53] <wasabi> Well, I don't see why.
[07:53] <wasabi> Pssh and even then, the string is named Log Out $user now.
[07:54] <joelbryan> I'll make a patch, of what other possible looks for hiding other things.
[07:54] <wasabi> Which might not be accurate if you don't actually log out.
[07:54] <wasabi> System > Exit.
[07:54] <wasabi> That might work. :0
[07:54] <jdub> joelbryan: GNOME upstream does it 'Mac OS X' style.
[07:54] <joelbryan> cool!
[07:54] <jdub> wasabi: it will be changed to 'Quit', I believe
[07:55] <wasabi> I can handle that.
[07:55] <wasabi> Still think the big dialog is too unweildy, though.
[07:55] <wasabi> It takes me time to scan it.
[07:55] <joelbryan> the only visible option is Logout, Restart, Shutdown. and other will be clickable.
[07:55] <Burgundavia> wasabi: there is a bug open fot it
[07:55] <lifeless> so whats the ui sprint been all about ?
[07:56] <wasabi> Anyways, my desktop rocks. That is all.
[07:56] <wasabi> Good night.
[07:56] <jdub> lifeless: polish.
[07:57] <lifeless> you don't mean western europeans with funny accents do you ?
[08:09] <Burgundavia> jdub: what are you thoughts on the WinFoss stuff on the cd?
[08:13] <jdub> Burgundavia: i like it. what are you asking?
[08:13] <Burgundavia> jdub: just wondering. I have two minds. One part of me says get rid of it, due to space. The other part wonders if we are under utilizing the marketing potential there
[08:14] <jdub> we're not telling enough people about it
[08:14] <jdub> if there's space there, it's useful
[08:16] <Burgundavia> should we add a note to the download page about the windows stuff?
[08:16] <jdub> and the CD cover
[08:16] <Kamion> 06:04 < jdub> Rotund: an office in montreal
[08:16] <Kamion> jdub: er - are you sure you aren't confusing support and QA there?
[08:16] <Kamion> jdub: last I checked (when I was interviewing a candidate for the QA position), the QA job was work-from-home
[08:17] <Burgundavia> ie "This cd also contains Free/Open Source Windows software"
[08:17] <jdub> Kamion: oh, i must've missed his mention of QA
[08:17] <CarlFK> shouldn't there be a dapper entry? http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=libmjpegtools0
[08:21] <ajmitch_> CarlFK: try libmjpegtools0c2a
[08:21] <CarlFK> roger
[08:26] <carlk> lives: Depends: libmjpegtools0 (>= 1:1.6.3+rc2-0.0ubuntu2) but it is not installable
[08:26] <ajmitch_> file a bug on it
[08:26] <carlk> I was wondering how to ask... thanks
[08:27] <ajmitch_> morning pitti 
[08:29] <pitti> hi ajmitch_ 
[08:34] <dAndy> Kamion: anymore I can do on the debian-installer nfs stuff?
[08:37] <sivang> morning all
[08:41] <Kamion> dAndy: I've punted to the kernel guys for now
[08:41] <dAndy> Kamion: saw that, sounds good, thanks
[08:42] <ajmitch_> morning mvo 
[08:42] <mvo> hello ajmitch_
[08:43] <Burgundavia> mvo: morning. Where are you at with automaticupdates? It is dying on being run for me
[08:43] <Mithrandir> ogra: apparently, gss doesn't do the "let's lock every five minutes" dance if g-p-m is running..
[08:43] <mvo> Burgundavia: dying in what way?
[08:49] <ogra> Mithrandir, ah, intresting 
[08:55] <tepsipakki> uhm, the current mountnfs doesn't mount nfs4-shares, because they need rpc.idmap/rpc.gssd running which are started by nfs-common
[08:55] <Kinnison> Morning guys
[08:56] <JaneW> ping: BenC, dholbach, fabbione, infinity, iwj, jbailey, heno, Kinnison, keybuk, ogra,  seb128, sivan ,Riddell -> meeting
[08:58] <fabbione> i am here
[09:01] <CarlFK> no dapper-live.jigdo ?
[09:02] <Mithrandir> CarlFK: it wouldn't make any kind of sense.
[09:02] <CarlFK> Mithrandir: there are ones for server and desktop
[09:02] <CarlFK> desktop = .. um.. normal
[09:03] <Mithrandir> CarlFK: do you know how jigdo works? :-)
[09:03] <CarlFK> yup
[09:03] <CarlFK> you? ;)
[09:03] <Mithrandir> yes
[09:03] <Mithrandir> given that you most likely don't have a local mirror with something resembling casper/filesystem.squashfs jigdo would just give you a 500MB-ish .template file.
[09:04] <CarlFK> good.  I have ubuntu and -userver.  I bet the live CD uses many of the files from those, I bet I am close
[09:04] <Mithrandir> no, the compression on the live cd is different than in the .debs
[09:04] <Mithrandir> just use rsync instead.
[09:04] <CarlFK> ahh right 
[09:05] <CarlFK> you should have asked me if I knew how the live CD was ... um.. compressed.
[09:05] <CarlFK> ;)
[09:05] <Mithrandir> heh
[09:07] <CarlFK> you seem on top of this - is there an RSS feed that anounces when new .torrents are up?
[09:07] <Mithrandir> not that I know of
[09:08] <Mithrandir> we do put them up daily or more often, though
[09:09] <CarlFK> yeah - I cron/wget the .torrents evey hour between 1 and 5am so that by 7 BT has it
[09:09] <CarlFK> Mithrandir: got an e-mail addr I can send a write up I did on combining BT with jigdo?
[09:10] <Mithrandir> CarlFK: what kind of write-up?  As in, to me, or to upstream or .. ?
[09:10] <CarlFK> I was posted to the jigdo list, but that is the deades list ever
[09:10] <CarlFK> to someone ;)
[09:11] <Mithrandir> debian-cd@lists.debian.org, possibly?
[09:11] <CarlFK> to whoever is interested in reducing server/mirror load
[09:11] <CarlFK> ug.. antother list ;)
[09:11] <CarlFK> but ok
[09:11] <Mithrandir> you can post to it without being subscribed
[09:11] <CarlFK> if someone thinks it is the right place, ill post
[09:12] <Mithrandir> I'd guess it might be, at least.
[09:12] <CarlFK> well, it is on 90% baked - I want to be around for the response 
[09:12] <CarlFK> have the signup url handy?
[09:13] <Mithrandir> echo subscribe | mail debian-cd-request@lists.debian.org, iirc
[09:13] <Kamion> http://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/
[09:13] <CarlFK> thanks 2x
[09:14] <maswan> CarlFK: it's fairly low traffic. reducing server load isn't a huge priority though.
[09:14] <Mithrandir> maswan: but shiny stuff is, isn't it? :-)
[09:14] <maswan> Mithrandir: sure
[09:14] <CarlFK> lol
[09:14] <CarlFK> swell
[09:14] <CarlFK> maybe this will fall into that category ;)
[09:15] <maswan> CarlFK: doing torrent seeding with just a main mirror and a jigdo+template file?
[09:15] <CarlFK> yup
[09:16] <CarlFK> BT can update a dir of files without too much "waste"
[09:16] <CarlFK> so use BT to move the files around and jigdo to assemble the .iso
[09:16] <maswan> ah
[09:16] <maswan> that way around
[09:21] <CarlFK> speaking of BT - dapper-live-i386.iso.torrent has been looking for a seed for 20 min
[09:22] <Mithrandir> CarlFK: but as I said, generally it's just as useful to just use rsync to update the ISOs.
[09:22] <CarlFK> im trying to be nice to your servers ;)
[09:23] <CarlFK> but okee dokee - i can do rsync... I sync I have that url around here somewhere
[09:23] <Mithrandir> cdimage.ubuntu.com::cdimage/daily-live/current/dapper-live-i386.iso
[09:33] <CarlFK> thanks
[09:34] <seb128> jdub: around?
[09:46] <infinity> siretart: That changelog for ia32-libs-sdl doesn't really seem right. :)
[09:46] <Kamion> I noticed that, but the package itself seemed O
[09:46] <Kamion> K
[09:47] <siretart> gnarf. this was the result of the confusion about the name yesterday
[09:47] <infinity> siretart: The name, whether or not it contains libasound (it doesn't, right), etc...
[09:47] <infinity> siretart: IOW, the whole chanelog looks wrong.  <grin>
[09:47] <siretart> infinity: I'll fix it in the next upload, okay?
[09:48] <infinity> siretart: Yup, I've got nothing against revisionist history in changelogs. :)
[09:48] <siretart> Kamion: btw, I uploaded a package for multiverse, x264 some time ago. was it rejected? is it still in NEW?
[09:54] <pitti> Kamion: mozilla-thunderbird-locale-{ca,de,fr,it,nl,pl,uk} sources+binaries can be removed
[09:55] <pitti> Kamion: also, I think that the new binaries from thunderbird-locales are in NEW
[09:55] <Kamion> siretart: still in NEW, sorry, I think I was too scared to do multiverse stuff
[09:56] <Kamion> pitti: queued
[09:56] <Kamion> pitti: don't see them there
[09:56] <siretart> ah, okay
[09:56] <pitti> hmm
[09:56] <siretart> Kamion: its basically taken from marillat. we have already a bunch of other packages from him in multiverse, so I thought that would be okay for multiverse
[09:57] <pitti> Kinnison: I uploaded a new source thunderbird-locales yesterday, the debs are mostly NEW, but they aren't in the NEW queue; any idea what happened to them?
[09:57] <Kinnison> Not without looking
[09:57] <Kinnison> Give me 10 minutes and then I'll go look. If Kamion hasn't found them in the meantime :-)
[09:57] <Kamion> siretart: oh, probably, I just don't entirely know the ropes on what we allow
[09:57] <Kinnison> Kamion: ^^^
[10:02] <pitti> Kinnison: maybe they have the same fate as yesterday's disappeared/rejected poppler debs
[10:05] <Kinnison> maybe, but without my usb keyfob I can't do anything and I'll get yelled at if I go back into the bedroom before rob's ready :-)
[10:08] <Kinnison> pitti: right, gotta restbreak now before my computer explodes at me, will look the moment I get back
[10:09] <Mithrandir> Kamion/mdz: any chance of an UVF exception for tailor?  We have 0.9.19-2, a trivial recompile of 0.9.20 works correctly with bzr in dapper.
[10:09] <pitti> Kinnison: enjoy breakfast :) thanks
[10:10] <infinity> Kamion/mdz: While you're in the UVF mood, I need a UVF exception for the latest fglrx (adds support for more ATI cards to the binary driver), and minor bump for AVM Fritz (and amd64 only) to make doko's isdn doohickey like him better.
[10:13] <pitti> how can I edit my bug contacts in Malone?
[10:13] <Kamion> Mithrandir: link to the upstream changelog?
[10:13] <Kamion> infinity: that one I think I'll leave to mdz :-)
[10:14] <Kamion> pitti: +subscribe on the relevant source package
[10:14] <pitti> ah, thanks
[10:14] <Kamion> linked as "Bugmail Settings" in the right-hand-side portlet
[10:16] <Kamion> pitti: no idea what happened to thunderbird-locales, I can't find it in lp_archive's mailboxes?
[10:16] <Kamion> Kinnison: where else should I look other than /var/mail/lp_archive and ~lp_archive/mbox?
[10:16] <infinity> Kamion: Spoilsport.
[10:22] <Mithrandir> Kamion: http://progetti.arstecnica.it/tailor/timeline?from=23%2F12%2F2005&daysback=42&milestone=on&changeset=on&update=Update is the clostest I could find.
[10:28] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, go ahead
[10:29] <Kinnison> Kamion: /srv/launchpad.net/builddmaster
[10:31] <CarlFK> is launchpad the place for:  live cd, f1 for help, f3 for "boot methods" - the text says do this and that at "the boot prompt" but that went away
[10:33] <Kinnison> pitti: 
[10:33] <Kinnison> 15:32:16 INFO    Rejected: 15:32:16 INFO    mozilla-thunderbird-locale-de_1.5ubuntu20060130_all.deb: Version older than that in the archive. 1.5ubuntu20060130 <= 1:1.0.7-1ubuntu1 
[10:33] <pitti> Kinnison: argh, I love epochs
[10:33] <Kinnison> :-)
[10:33] <pitti> Kinnison: sorry for bothering then
[10:33] <Kinnison> that's okay
[10:33] <Kinnison> I need to find some way to append the upload log to the build item I think
[10:33] <Kamion> CarlFK: you can still just press enter ... it's just that the "boot prompt" is now a full screen
[10:33] <Kinnison> it'd help
[10:34] <Kamion> CarlFK: if you want to file a bug, use the debian-installer source package (which for a change is actually accurate, not a catch-all)
[10:34] <CarlFK> heh ;)
[10:34] <pitti> Kinnison: any idea what's wrong with the poppler debs?
[10:35] <ogra> Kamion, do you know if there is winfoss on my edubuntu live cds ? (i actually never tested it but i'm a bit shocked by 30MB overhead on amd64)
[10:36] <ogra> (is there a way to find that out easily ?)
[10:36] <doko> Kamion: now that libgcj-common is built from gcj-4.1 it should be possible to demote the gcj-4.0 source to universe. maybe manual intervention is needed for the cyclic gcj-4.0/libgcj6-dev dependency
[10:36] <Kinnison> pitti: kamion told you what was up. the control file was misformatted (or have you fixed that now?)
[10:37] <pitti> Kinnison: oh, I didn't see that; seb128, did you? ^
[10:37] <seb128> no
[10:37] <seb128> how misformed?
[10:37] <seb128> misformated
[10:38] <Kinnison> the description for libpoppler1 I think
[10:38] <Kinnison> certainly the libpoppler1 deb is missing a Description field so it can't be imported into the archive
[10:39] <tepsipakki> bah, nfs-utils is b0rked nfs4-wise.. need to package it myself
[10:39] <seb128> Kinnison: ah right, thank you
[10:40] <Kinnison> seb128: should be an easy fix :-)
[10:40] <seb128> Kinnison: would be nice to have some mail for soyuz in that case :p
[10:41] <Kinnison> seb128: yeah, it's hard to decide what to do when a binary upload fails
[10:41] <Kinnison> seb128: I'm fairly sure katie dropped it on the floor too
[10:41] <Kamion> ogra: no, there isn't
[10:42] <seb128> tell the maintainer seems to be useful in any failure case, no?
[10:42] <Kamion> ogra: look in colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/cdimage--mainline--0 bin/find-live-filesystem
[10:42] <Kamion> seb128: not really, often causes maintainers to randomly work around things that are actually a buildd problem
[10:42] <ogra> thanks 
[10:42] <seb128> Kamion: right
[10:42] <Kamion> seb128: although I agree with you in the case of binary upload failures, just not "any failure case"
[10:43] <Kamion> doko: cyclic dependencies shouldn't confuse germinate/anastacia
[10:44] <Kamion> for poppler, there was a tab or spaces or something before Description in the control file
[10:44] <Kinnison> To be honest, that *ought* to have failed the package build
[10:45] <Kinnison> we should try and teach dpkg-gencontrol some basic requirements
[10:45] <Kinnison> IMO
[10:45] <Kamion> doko: libcommons-net-java in main build-depends-indep: gcj-4.0
[10:45] <doko> Kamion: ok, thanks, forgot the build-deps ...
[10:45] <mdz_> infinity: back online now, what's up?
[10:45] <infinity> mdz_: Just mailed you.
[10:46] <Kamion> see http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/dapper/rdepends/gcj-4.0/
[10:46] <doko> Kamion: is there a script to tell you about source packages with binaries both in main and universe?
[10:46] <infinity> mdz_: Re: UVF exception for AVM Fritz and fglrx.
[10:46] <Kamion> doko: no, but that isn't a bug ...?
[10:47] <doko> Kamion: just wanted to look at these packages
[10:47] <Kamion> doko: using germinate is really the easiest way to find this stuff out - it's packaged, you can run it yourself
[10:48] <Kamion> if the reports on the web aren't enough (which they aren't always, since http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/ is i386-only at the moment)
[11:09] <Mithrandir> is there any way to make gaim _not_ pop up the main window when it reconnects?
[11:15] <sivang> Mithrandir: should be somewhere in the preferences I thin
[11:47] <Kamion> Diziet: could you arrange to add autopkgtest to some appropriate seed so that it can be promoted to main? Ubuntu supported would be fine
[11:51] <Treenaks> ogra: xserver-xorg
[11:52] <ogra> haha
[11:52] <ogra> yes, since we will ship with Xgl (as heise.de reported) :P
[11:53] <dholbach> Their Ubuntu-News-Department is a bit ... erm ... confused.
[11:53] <ogra> (they call it the most notable improvement btw)
[11:53] <ogra> heh ...
[11:53] <ajmitch_> heh
[11:53] <ogra> it always was
[11:54] <ajmitch_> and people complain about how unstable Xgl is - as if a cvs dump is going to be perfectly stable & amazing
[11:54] <ogra> heh
[11:54] <ogra> yes
[11:55] <Pygi> ajmitch: XGL works fine here ^^
[11:56] <ajmitch_> Pygi: that's great, but it doesn't mean it'll work fine for everyone :)
[11:56] <Pygi> ajmitch: true ^^
[12:16] <Kinnison> Kamion: one day I'll look back at this week and laugh, until then, I hate everyone who managed to get me anywhere near gtkmm, okay?
[12:17] <Kamion> Kinnison: :-/
[12:18] <Diziet> kamion: Willdo.
[12:22] <mdke> Kinnison, if you're on gparted and want an easy bug to close, would you take a look at bug #33866?
[12:22] <Ubugtu> malone bug 33866 in gparted "HIG compliant menu entry" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33866
[12:23] <azeem> (W 31
[12:23] <azeem> bah, sorry
[12:24] <Kinnison> mdke: urgh, I'm kinda just hacking on the stuff for the installer
[12:24] <Kinnison> mdke: If you can attach a patch to that bug, I'll drop it into the package before I upload
[12:25] <mdke> Kinnison, ok
[12:44] <ogra> "Assignee: (unassigned) => Ubuntu Core Development Team"
[12:44] <ogra> meh
[12:50] <Mithrandir> is there anything like viewcvs for bzr?
[12:51] <Kinnison> there have been various attempts at it. Dunno if anyone has kept any of them up-to-date with the api
[12:54] <lifeless> Mithrandir: yes
[12:54] <lifeless> bzr webserve
[12:54] <lifeless> its a plugin, link on the wiki, maintained by goffedo barcelloni
[12:56] <Mithrandir> uh, so bzr is then running continiously?
[01:02] <lifeless> yes. there are cgi like ones around too
[01:02] <lifeless> but not as nice ;)
[01:03] <sivang> lifeless: does it uses mod_python ?
[01:03] <janimo> mvo, hi got my mail yesterday?
[01:07] <mvo> janimo: yes, but I haven't read it yet, sorry
[01:08] <lifeless> sivang: not sure
[01:09] <ogra> lifeless, it urgently needs the little subway map bzrk uses :)
[01:10] <ogra> (makes me feel like railroad tycoon while using bzr ;) )
[01:17] <mdke> Kinnison, there is a patch on bug #33866 for you, hope it works
[01:17] <Ubugtu> malone bug 33866 in gparted "HIG compliant menu entry" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33866
[01:22] <Kinnison> thanks, I'll look later when I'm less confused :-)
[01:22] <mdke> cool
[01:23] <doko> lamont, infinity: please requeue mdbtools on ia64
[01:23] <mdke> Kinnison, i'll assign you the bug so you can see it whenever is convenient
[01:25] <Kinnison> thanks
[01:25] <pitti_live> espresso is funny - it doesn't reformat my fat partition, but if I reformat it as reiserfs, it does format it as ext2...
[01:27] <Seveas> who made splash-down?
[01:27] <pitti_live> Seveas: infinity
[01:27] <Seveas> k
[01:27] <Seveas> then I'll have to poke him via malone
[01:27] <pitti_live> Kinnison: are espresso partitioner bugs yours now? or fabbione's?
[01:28] <Treenaks> Seveas: why? :)
[01:28] <fabbione> pitti_live: my code didn't land yet :)
[01:28] <fabbione> pitti_live: it can't be my bug
[01:28] <Kinnison> pitti_live: I think for now they're kamion's
[01:28] <Kinnison> pitti_live: I'm working on the gparted/espresso integration but that's it currently
[01:29] <Seveas> Treenaks, kaarsemaker.net/~dennis/splash_down_b0rken.jpg
[01:29] <Treenaks> Seveas: nice colors
[01:29] <pitti_live> Kinnison: alright
[01:30] <Seveas> urgh, why can't malone sort searches :S
[01:31] <Seveas> hmm, it can - ok why does firefox break when hovering over a link?
[01:39] <infinity> Seveas: On boot, your splash has correct colours, though?
[01:39] <sivang> ogra: is bzrk a complete frontend in GTK for bzr, or just shows the revision tree?
[01:39] <Seveas> infinity, yes
[01:40] <Seveas> infinity, it was filed in malone already, I added a comment and subscribed you
[01:40] <Kinnison> sivang: It just visualises the ancestry
[01:41] <ogra> and has a quite cool patchviewer included :)
[01:42] <Kinnison> aye
[01:49] <highquality>  laptop for sale 500$ want it gone today. price includes shipping, case, wireless router. message me if interested on aim at ogd443 or msn at mcsltd2@hotmail.com
[01:49] <Seveas> highquality, bugger off...
[02:06] <Kamion> seb128: (or anyone) shouldn't libpoppler1-qt depend on libqt somehow?
[02:12] <pitti> wohoo, my first finished espresso installation
[02:12] <pitti> Kamion: I collected a bunch of bugs on my paper sheet here; what do you generally prefer, malone spam or talking about the bugs in IRC before?
[02:13] <Seveas> pitti, search malone for espresso bugs first - there already are quite a few of them ;)
[02:17] <pitti> yes, of course
[02:21] <Kamion> pitti: malone
[02:21] <jbailey> mdz: g'm!  I uploaded at to hoary-updates a while ago, and haven't seen it in the archive, and I don't think I've seen a rejected note.  Is it still in the queue for processing?  I don't think I can see into it.
[02:21] <Kamion> pitti: the format thing is one I know about, it's just hardcoded to ext3 at the moment because nothing passes through the desired partition type
[02:21] <Kamion> Kinnison and I taled about that one yesterday
[02:21] <pitti> Kamion: alright, I'll file/comment on bugs
[02:23] <Kinnison> jbailey: IIRC launchpad has no chroots for hoary-updates
[02:23] <jbailey> Kinnison: Err, really? =)
[02:23] <Kinnison> jbailey: indeed
[02:23] <Kinnison> jbailey: so bug infinity to prepare some :-)
[02:23] <jbailey> Would the same also apply to warty?
[02:24] <jbailey> I have glibc updates for all current releases that need to go in, but I'd been waiting to see this one finished, and then got distracted with other things.
[02:25] <jbailey> Kinnison: Should Launchpad notify me when an upload I've done is impossible to service?
[02:25] <jbailey> (I'm wondering how I could've traced this)
[02:27] <Kinnison> jbailey: No, we should have done the chroots by now
[02:30] <Kamion> Listing ubuntu/hoary (UNAPPROVED) 4/4
[02:30] <Kamion> ---------|----|----------------------|----------------------|---------------
[02:30] <Kamion>     1832 | S- | at                   | 3.1.8-11ubuntu4      | three weeks
[02:30] <Kamion>          | at/3.1.8-11ubuntu4 Component: main Section: admin
[02:30] <Kamion>     2891 | S- | at                   | 3.1.8-11ubuntu5      | three weeks
[02:30] <Kamion>          | at/3.1.8-11ubuntu5 Component: main Section: admin
[02:32] <Kamion> Kinnison: if infinity creates the chroots, will they Just Work?
[02:32] <Kinnison> Kamion: in theory, yes
[02:34] <Kamion> jbailey: in atd.c, I'd have used %*s rather than dynamically constructing a format string, myself
[02:34] <jbailey> Kamion: Patch pulled from newer version.
[02:35] <jbailey> Kamion: It's not exactly as I'd have done it, but I wan't to show that I was just pulling back the fixes.
[02:35] <Kamion> Kinnison: what will happen if I process the queue before that?
[02:35] <jbailey> Kamion: If you'd prefer I can update with that, though.
[02:35] <Kinnison> Kamion: the sources will go in and no binaries will build for now
[02:35] <Kamion> jbailey: no, don't worry, just a comment
[02:36] <Kamion> jbailey: er ... there were already 3.1.8-11ubuntu4 and 3.1.8-11ubuntu5 versions in breezy
[02:36] <Kamion> indeed 3.1.8-11ubuntu5 is current in breezy
[02:37] <Kamion> soyuz should really have rejected that IMO
[02:38] <Kamion> jbailey: also, you appear to have missed at least one bit of the patch:
[02:39] <Kamion> -    fprintf(fp, "#!/bin/sh\n# atrun uid=%d gid=%d\n# mail %8s %d\n",
[02:39] <Kamion> +
[02:39] <Kamion> +    fprintf(fp, "#!/bin/sh\n# atrun uid=%d gid=%d\n# mail %s %d\n",
[02:39] <Kamion> (in at.c)
[02:40] <jbailey> Kamion: In what way?  The point of the patch is that usernames aren't limited to 8 characters anymore.
[02:40] <Kamion> jbailey: and I think also some free(mailname) calls in atd.c, so you probably have a memory leak
[02:40] <Kamion> jbailey: the patch pasted above is in the hoary->dapper diff, but not in your upload
[02:41] <infinity> Kinnison: I'll do chroots soon and we'll test this Just Works theory. :)
[02:41] <Kinnison> infinity: :-)
[02:41] <infinity> Kinnison: Does this mean *-backports is also good to go?  (I'd really love to clear all those PENDING backports builds out of the queue)
[02:41] <Kamion> "I'd like to test that theory."
[02:42] <jbailey> Lemme go through the patch diff again.  At this point, I don't really remember it.  I went through it at the time.
[02:42] <Kinnison> infinity: in terms of building yes
[02:42] <Kinnison> infinity: in terms of getting source in, dunnoi
[02:42] <infinity> Kinnison: well, source must be there somehow.. Unless that source all came from the dak days...
[02:42] <infinity> (Which is possible, I guess)
[02:43] <Kamion> jbailey: anyway, I'll reject due to the version clash; it'll have to be reuploaded as 3.1.8-11ubuntu3.1 in any case
[02:43] <Kamion> sorry for taking so long to look at it
[02:44] <jbailey> Kamion: Is there something clever I can do with the version numbers to make this easier, like 3.1.8-11ubuntu3hoary1 or so?  That way for updates, I don't have to guess at numbers which don't conflict with random other things in the pool?
[02:45] <jbailey> I don't know if issues would come up with 3warty1 being a higher number than 3hoary1 or so.
[02:46] <infinity> jbailey: In security, we've taken to doing some sketchy things like 3.1.8-11ubuntu3.05.10 3.1.8-11ubuntu3.05.04 3.1.8-11ubuntu3.04.10
[02:46] <infinity> jbailey: So, lower than ubuntu4, higher than ubuntu3, and the dists are all in order.
[02:46] <Ubugtu> malone bug 34210 in launchpad-upload-and-queue "should reject uploads whose versions already exist in other distroreleases" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[02:46] <jbailey> Kamion: Thanks
[02:47] <Kamion> jbailey: just check other versions in the pool first
[02:47] <Kamion> if the version in the next distrorelease up is greater than the version in the distrorelease you care about, just use some non-clashing scheme such as -XubuntuY.Z
[02:47] <Kamion> you only have to mess with .5.10 or whatever if the versions in several distroreleases are identical
[02:48] <Kamion> (which wasn't the case for at)
[02:48] <jbailey> Kamion: 'kay.  I was hoping for something to consistantly apply so that I can be lazier with it.  I'll look, though.
[02:49] <infinity> Well, the .05.10 scheme isn't so ugly as a standard, once you get used to it.
[02:49] <infinity> (and an update to that would be .05.10.1, then .05.10.2, etc.
[02:49] <ogra> argl
[02:49] <infinity> )
[02:49] <jbailey> Right, looks sane enough.
[02:49] <Kamion> the initial zero is a bit redundant; dpkg compares numeric portions of version numbers numerically anyway
[02:49] <ogra> Kamion, linux-source upload .
[02:49] <Kamion> so .10.4 > .5.10
[02:49] <ogra> ...
[02:49] <Kamion> ogra: yeah, I know, apparently we need it
[02:49] <infinity> Kamion: yes, but it sorts nicely for humand when we release Ubuntu 10.04 :)
[02:49] <Ubugtu> ubuntu bug 1 in openssl "openssl: Expired certificates and recertification" [Normal,Resolved: notwarty]  http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1
[02:49] <ogra> ah, k
[02:49] <infinity> s/humand/humans/
[02:50] <jbailey> Ubugtu: Why did you decide to say that? =)
[02:50] <Kamion> surely anything presented to humans should sort by the canonical version ordering algorithm. :-)
[02:50] <jbailey> Kamion: 'ls' in ftp isn't so compliant as that. =)
[02:50] <infinity> Kamion: Yes, but humans like fixed-width numbers. :)
[02:51] <infinity> Humans also like sleep, so this one should stop alluding to it, and get some.
[02:51] <Kamion> somebody should hack ls --version into lftp
[02:52] <jbailey> infinity: G'n adam.  Thanks.
[02:52] <infinity> Kamion: How many times have I called you a "sick fuck" in the past?
[02:52] <infinity> Kamion: I think I feel another coming on.
[02:53] <Kamion> about a thousand
[02:54] <Keybuk> Kamion: which one of the two canonical version ordering algorithms? :)
 Ubugtu: Why did you decide to say that? =)
[02:56] <Seveas> you ask an intriguing question...
[02:56] <jbailey> Seveas: I do?
[02:57] <Seveas> yes
[02:57] <Kamion> I've accepted Tollef's evms hoary-updates upload to give the buildds some exercise
[02:57] <Kamion> Keybuk: the one you meant, obviously
[03:01] <Seveas> anyway, Ubugtu won't make such silly mistakes again - I adjusted the regex a bit
[03:02] <ogra> Seveas, we wont talk often about ubuntu 10.04 yet i guess :)
[03:02] <Seveas> hehe
[03:03] <Seveas> the trick is that it was rigged up to exclude version numbers (like 2.12 or 5.04)
[03:03] <Seveas> it just had a slight decennium problem
[03:03] <Seveas> (10.04 would correctly not match, but the 1 would)
[03:04] <Seveas> the regex now is: r"""\b(?P<bt>(([a-z] +)?\s+bug|[a-z] +))\s+#?(?P<bug>\d+(?!\d*\.\d+)(,\s*#?\d+(?!\d*\.\d+))*)"""
[03:04] <ohoel> Has there been any talk about renaming a "repository" to a channel?
[03:04] <Seveas> (which matches every line with an integer, there's more logic later to filter only real bugtrackers ;))
[03:05] <ogra> :)
[03:06] <Kamion> pitti: I'm a little mystified as to the necessity of xine-lib 1.0-1ubuntu3.4 in hoary-updates, although it looks OK (in that it's identical to hoary-security in all but the changelog)
[03:06] <Kamion> ohoel: why?
[03:07] <ohoel> ohoel: just wondering.. translating update-manager via gnomecvs... the latter case would make more sense in direct translation atleast
[03:07] <Kamion> channel is more jargon and less understandable in English
[03:07] <Kamion> to me at least
[03:08] <ohoel> Kamion, We ship the one maintained in gnome cvs right?
[03:08] <Kamion> ohoel: absolutely no idea
[03:08] <Kamion> mvo would know
[03:08] <ohoel> I'll just wait for mvo then ;)
[03:24] <pitti> Kamion: AFAIR, I integrated the hoary-updates fix into hoary-security, so the -updates branch is obsolete anyway
[03:25] <Kamion> should I accept it anyway in case we need to branch hoary-updates again? I guess that would make sense
[03:25] <pitti> Kamion: same case with e. g. evolution; I'd love to actually remove obsolete -updates branches since it would avoid confusion (and clean up ubuntu-cve)
[03:25] <Kamion> not sure I want to go there :)
[03:26] <Kamion> I'll accept it for now, we can think about better solutions later
[03:26] <pitti> Kamion: anyway, we have 3.3 in h-u already, so having 3.4 there doesn't do  any harm
[03:26] <Kamion> right
[03:26] <Kamion> that's hoary-updates unapproved empty, now just 13 entries in breezy-updates unapproved *sigh*
[03:36] <jono> Keybuk, ping
[03:37] <Kamion> Mithrandir: your evms upload to breezy-updates (2.5.2-1ubuntu1.1) seems to have a bunch of .po/.pot changes - intentional?
[03:37] <Mithrandir> Kamion: no, not really.
[03:38] <Kamion> Mithrandir: could you reupload with just the backported fix?
[03:38] <Keybuk> jono: hey dude
[03:38] <Keybuk> jono: why am I not getting a Thanks in your book; for all those burgers! :)
[03:38] <Solatis> hey, which kernel version is currently active for dapper?
[03:39] <Mithrandir> Kamion: sure.  I thought I did the right upload, but apparently not.
[03:39] <jono> Keybuk, who said you don't get a thanks ?
[03:39] <Keybuk> jono: am kidding just from your blog <g>
[03:40] <jono> Keybuk, heh
[03:40] <jono> Keybuk, thought you knew something I didnt there
[03:40] <Keybuk> lol
[03:40] <Keybuk> how goes it?
[03:40] <jono> Keybuk, good, you?
[03:41] <seb128> Kamion: dunno for libpoppler1-qt, according to ldd it doesn't link to it (which is weird)
[03:41] <Keybuk> yeah am not too bad
[03:41] <Kamion> Solatis: 2.6.15
[03:41] <jono> Keybuk, can I ask a quick q?
[03:41] <Keybuk> jono: sure, go for it
[03:41] <jono> Keybuk, you good for your talk at RLL06 to be at 12pm on the Sat (22nd July) ?
[03:41] <jono> LRL06 that is
[03:42] <Keybuk> sure
[03:42] <Keybuk> should be up by then :)
[03:42] <Solatis> Kamion: ok thank you!
[03:42] <jono> Keybuk, :)
[03:46] <Mithrandir> \o/ *-desktop seems to be installable again.
[04:04] <pitti> mvo: did you send your tetex-bin patch to Debian? ('remove the old formats before cleaning environment')
[04:05] <mvo> pitti: no, but the debian package changed in this area already IIRC
[04:06] <pitti> ah, ok
[04:13] <bmonty> elmo: please sync m17n-db from debian unstable, UVF exception request was approved (Malone #33706)
[04:13] <Ubugtu> malone bug 33706 in m17n-db "UVF exception request" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33706
[04:18] <LarstiQ> where should I report the windows firefox on the dapper installcd being old?
[04:20] <ogra> whats up with the archive mails, did yomething change ? seems my filters dont catch it anymore
[04:21] <ogra> Mithrandir, does the above mean you create liveFS's ?
[04:21] <ogra> (edubuntu could need a new one too)
[04:22] <Mithrandir> ogra: no, we want the new kernel and some other bits in first.
[04:22] <ogra> ah, k
[04:22] <ogra> what are the other bits ? big stuff ?
[04:22] <ogra> (i'm heavily under space pressure)
[04:30] <Mithrandir> ogra: you need to fix your space problem, yes. :-)
[04:31] <ogra> Mithrandir, could you trigger another livefs build anyway, i belive the last edubuntu-live fixes it
[04:32] <Mithrandir> ogra: started.
[04:32] <ogra> thansk a lot :)
[04:33] <Mithrandir> then I'm off for an hour or so.
[04:48] <ogra> boggle, what is gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks ? 
[04:50] <highvoltage> ogra: a new human theme? :)
[04:51] <ogra> might be ... the last bits that replaced something older were twice as big as their previous versions, thats waht i fear 
[04:51] <jdub> ogra: new gtk theme :-)
[04:51] <ogra> edubuntu already cant include the new asian fonts ... they add 2MB ... 
[04:51] <ogra> jdub, bigger or not ? 
[04:52] <ogra> i dont even have kilobytes left
[04:52] <jdub> ogra: there's nothing very big about gtk engines
[04:52] <ogra> then i'm fine
[04:53] <ogra> jdub, i got the space pictures for the screensaver-default-image thingie... do you want to make the package or should i ?
[04:54] <jdub> go for it
[04:54] <jdub> separate source for great justice
[04:54] <Kinnison> ogra: how come edubuntu is so much bigger than the other flavours?
[04:54] <jdub> Kinnison: has to ship kde and gnome bits, for a start
[04:54] <fabbione> Kinnison: for the extra junk^Wshiness
[04:54] <ogra> Kinnison, we include 5 KDE apps 
[04:55] <Kinnison> urgh
[04:55] <Kinnison> fair enough
[04:55] <ogra> Kinnison, that pulls in ~100MB of qt and friends :)
[04:55] <jdub> 'friends
[04:55] <jdub> '
[04:55] <ogra> (the kde apps themselves are < 5MB )
[04:55] <Kinnison> ogra: which QT apps do you need?
[04:56] <ogra> kdeedu
[04:56] <ogra> and scribus
[04:56] <Kinnison> scribus? Isn't that essentially abiword for kde?
[04:56] <ogra> nope
[04:56] <ogra> thats pagemaker for linux ;)
[04:56] <Kinnison> aah
[04:56] <ogra> the best DTP we have
[04:57] <highvoltage> i don't think scribus is widely used by edubuntu users, though.
[04:57] <ogra> highvoltage, i had other impressions at times ... but you're the guy at the frontline :)
[04:58] <jdub> yeah, seems like an odd ship-by-default choice for edubuntu
[04:58] <ogra> i'm pondering to either drop kdeedu in dapper+1 or switching to 2 CDs
[04:59] <ogra> but i'll do anything i can to avoid the latter
[04:59] <highvoltage> :)
[04:59] <highvoltage> at least you changed your mind from "no way" to "considering" for the 2 CD's :)
[04:59] <ogra> nope, i'm considering for dropping kdeedu
[05:00] <highvoltage> ah, ok.
[05:00] <ogra> if that doesnt work at all 2 CDs are a (very very bad) fallback
[05:01] <Kinnison> I take it that edubuntu doesn't ship with the gnome games etc?
[05:02] <ogra> Kinnison, it ships with what ubuntu has, plus edubuntu-server and the edu apps
[05:02] <Kinnison> ogra: aah
[05:02] <ogra> thats what makes it big... and hard to maintain as well
[05:03] <Kinnison> ogra: strikes me that removing some of the ubuntu stuff might be worthwhile
[05:03] <ogra> Kinnison, yes, but i wont cripple the core desktop ...
[05:03] <Kinnison> fair enough
[05:03] <Kinnison> Switch to DVD-only distribution?
[05:03] <Kinnison> that'd give you loads of room :-)
[05:04] <tseng> how much of the target audience has a dvd burner
[05:04] <tseng> (none)
[05:04] <ogra> the right way is to find proper replacements for kdeedu in the gnome world and get rid of tens of MBVs of libqt/kdelibs overhead
[05:04] <fabbione> Riddell, ogra: i just updated kubuntu and edubuntu seeds for the new kernel with ABI changes.
[05:04] <ogra> meh
[05:04] <ogra> i'm in the middle of some test iso builds for the space probs
[05:05] <fabbione> ogra: without ABI you won't have a kernel in about ~20 minutes
[05:05] <ogra> fabbione, i have the one i had yesterday :) 
[05:05] <fabbione> ogra: i can revert the change if you want
[05:05] <ogra> but without meta package it wont do no harm 
[05:07] <highvoltage> Riddell: does kde-edu ship with the kubuntu CD?
[05:07] <Riddell> don't worry fabbione, I love you
[05:07] <Riddell> highvoltage: no
[05:07] <highvoltage> ok.
[05:08] <fabbione> Riddell: i am not :)
[05:08] <ogra> yeah gtkmm is fun :P
[05:08] <ogra> (rewrite it in pygtk ;) )
[05:08] <tseng> or snuggle up to dh
[05:08] <tseng> dholbach
[05:08] <ogra> heh
[05:09] <Kinnison> snuggling with dholbach won't help now, despite how nice it might be
[05:09] <Kinnison> ogra: that's the post-dapper idea
[05:09] <ogra> yeah
[05:11] <ogra> (considering what has all been kept back for dapper+1 it must become a pretty weird freakshow of feature :) )
[05:12] <Kamion> fabbione: no point reverting the change for edubuntu; once d-i lands, building working images without updated seeds will be impossible anyway
[05:13] <Kamion> LarstiQ: I think you must mean the live CD (the Windows stuff isn't on the install CD), but don't bother, we just updated it today as it happens
[05:13] <LarstiQ> Kamion: you're probably right
[05:15] <Kinnison> Kamion: at last:
[05:15] <Kinnison> Kamion: http://rafb.net/paste/results/OKJfXl36.html
[05:16] <Kamion> hooray
[05:17] <ogra> okay ... edubuntu-live is tamed :-D
[05:17] <pitti> ogra: I saw you dropping language packs :'-(
[05:18] <ogra> pitti, only german ... nobody needs that ;)
[05:18] <pitti> ich nicht spreche deudsch
[05:18] <ogra> heh
[05:18] <highvoltage> deutch?
[05:18] <jdub> is 'deudsch' like surfer-german?
[05:18] <ogra> i'll look what i can do for final ...
[05:18] <ogra> its just weird german :)
[05:18] <pitti> highvoltage: nevermind :)
[05:19] <highvoltage> jdub: yeah, like L.A. surfer german, dude
[05:19] <Keybuk> I didn't think Germany had a coastline ...
[05:19] <jdub> i am with my deudsch, ridin' the waves on berlin beach
[05:19] <Kinnison> Kamion: All I have to do, to ensure that espresso doesn't explode with this gparted is to change the line where it reads the response from gparted
[05:19] <ogra> Keybuk, haha ...
[05:19] <pitti> Keybuk: I'll show you both the Baltic and the North sea then :)
[05:19] <Keybuk> pitti: my geography isn't great, though ;)
[05:19] <Kinnison> Kamion: If you want, you can do the obvious fix there and I'll just punt gparted at the archive, conflicting with whatever is there currently
[05:20] <jdub> Keybuk: that's why they invaded poland. needed the coastline.
[05:21] <Keybuk> jdub: dude, don't mention the war!  that's so not shiny
[05:21] <ogra> pitti, my prob is that each lang in edubuntu is about 5-15Mb bigger than in ubuntu ... i ship kde and gnome langpacks for each lang
[05:21] <jdub> lies
[05:21] <jdub> the german uniforms were very shiny
[05:22] <ogra> Keybuk, its fine, just dont do it while being in germany :)
[05:22] <pitti> alright, bus comes in 10 minutes, cu tomorrow!
[05:22] <Keybuk> ogra: with my german, they wouldn't understand what I was saying anyway
[05:23] <Kinnison> Keybuk: that's because you use too many lls, chs and ws in whatever foreign language you speak :-)
[05:23] <jdub> haw haw haw
[05:23] <ogra> i'm sure they would, you got enough colleagues around you all the time for translation, i'm sure :)
[05:24] <Keybuk> Er erwhnte den Krieg! erhalten Sie ihn!
[05:24] <ogra> erhalten ? 
[05:24] <ogra> ah, you meant keep :)
[05:24] <Keybuk> "get" apparently
[05:25] <ogra> haltet ihn !
[05:30] <seb128> Kamion: can you accept/promote ubuntulooks when you get it to NEW?
[05:31] <seb128> Kamion: that's the new GTK theme
[05:31] <Kamion> Kinnison: if you could send me a branch or patch or whatever that'd be better - I'm up to my elbows in the userinfo page at the moment
[05:32] <Kamion> seb128: ok, please seed it
[05:32] <seb128> Kamion: ubuntu-artworks Depends on it
[05:32] <Kinnison> Kamion: sure
[05:32] <Kinnison> Kamion: I'll say when I've pushed
[05:32] <Kamion> seb128: ok
[05:33] <Kamion> seb128: (grr. folks are trying to prepare CDs at the moment, please don't break dependencies)
[05:34] <seb128> Kamion: some UI sprinter really wants new theme to work though ...
[05:34] <seb128> Kamion: I'm sorry if I broke the CD but UI freeze is today and we better to push the new theme now
[05:35] <ogra> seb128, i dont even have got my official final theme for edubuntu, cant be that urgent 
[05:36] <seb128> ogra: you are not in London for UI sprint this week neither ...
[05:36] <ogra> seb128, sadly not ... 
[05:36] <ogra> edubuntu would have benefited from that ...
[05:39] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: is modprobe -Q accepted upstream yet?
[05:39] <ogra> seb128, especially sinc you have the disgnners there that make my artwork
[05:40] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: don't think that one is
[05:41] <ogra> ohoel, is that the equivalent to depmod -Q ?
[05:42] <ogra> grmbl
[05:42] <ogra> s/ohoel/oh
[05:43] <ohoel> everybody does that ;] 
[05:43] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: it'd be nice to push it upstream and/or into Debian so I don't end up with gratious when people adopt casper in Debian
[05:43] <ogra> my xchat started recently to autocomplete on commas ... no idea why ...
[05:44] <seb128> they changed the default from ":" to "," I think
[05:44] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I did send it to Rusty, but he pushed back
[05:44] <Keybuk> I think it's in Debian
[05:44] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: doesn't look like it.  -q is, though.
[05:44] <Keybuk> if it's not in Debian, it's because Md didn't want it I guess
[05:45] <Keybuk> he's had the patch
[05:53] <Kinnison> Kamion: pushed to http://people.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/bzr/espresso/gparted-updates
[05:53] <Kinnison> Kamion: gparted upload ready to rock and roll when you are
[05:57] <hub> hi
[05:57] <hub> I have an issue
[05:58] <highvoltage> #ubuntu?
[05:59] <hub> the issue is that some patches are applied to fix bug in some package
[05:59] <hub> and upstream never got them
[06:00] <hub> example: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/libgphoto2/+bug/18409
[06:00] <Ubugtu> malone bug 18409 in libgphoto2 libgphoto2-2 "Problem importing photos from hp photosmart 850" [Normal,Fix released]  
[06:01] <hub> the fix it the debian packages. but the cvs does not have them because no bug has been filed upstream
[06:01] <hub> nor the maintainer emailed about it
[06:01] <ogra> but you could apply them to the ubuntu package, cant you ?
[06:01] <seb128> that's a people issue
[06:02] <seb128> hub: you should ping who did the upload rather, but that happens, there is stuff not sent upstream
[06:02] <hub> ogra: they are in the ubuntu package. but I'm talking UPSTREAM
[06:02] <hub> I commented the bug anyway about that
[06:03] <hub> and I filed a bug in Debian for the same thing
[06:04] <Kamion> seb128: UploadError made it out to the main loop: Unable to find distrorelease: unstable
[06:04] <Kamion> seb128: ubuntulooks
[06:04] <seb128> arg
[06:04] <ogra> hub, about time you start working towards main maintenance, eh ? so you can send the patches yourself :)
[06:04] <seb128> Kamion: thanks (hate working from my laptop)
[06:04] <hub> ogra: I was going thru the changelog reading the package diff
[06:05] <hub> so that is a pure coincidence
[06:05] <hub> I have a 2.1.99.1 release to make
[06:07] <seb128> Kamion: fixed version uploaded
[06:08] <hub> seb128: re: working on laptop: that's why I have strong requirement on laptop choice, hence making my choice limited
[06:09] <hub> seb128: and IBM/Lenovo have the best keyboards ever
[06:10] <highvoltage> hub: i totally agre. nothing beets a thinkpad keyboard!
[06:10] <highvoltage> (although some of the new lenovo keyboards have windows buttons on them- yuck)
[06:10] <hub> highvoltage: my PowerBook G3 was okay, so did the PowerBook G4 (Ti)
[06:11] <hub> highvoltage: mine has it. but it is easier to live with than the Microsoft tax I had to pay on the unused disk space
[06:12] <highvoltage> yeah, i (or the company i work for) had to pay that too :(
[06:12] <hub> highvoltage: in my case it is my CreditCard
[06:13] <ohoel> ECS laptops tend to have fantastic keyboards too
[06:14] <Kamion> seb128: source accepted - unfortunately I won't be able to process the binaries now until rather later this evening
[06:16] <mjg59> ohoel: You have got to be kidding me
[06:16] <ogra> that leaves me time to land a ltsp fix, before flight 5, great :)
[06:16] <ogra> i never had such a good one again ...
[06:17] <ohoel> mjg59: the g556... mmm
[06:25] <Kamion> Kinnison: Depends: gparted (>= 0.1-0ubuntu2); Conflicts: gparted (<< 0.1-0ubuntu3) is a bit daft :-) I'll consolidate those into a single Depends
[06:25] <Kinnison> Kamion: oops, yes
[06:25] <Kinnison> :-)
[06:27] <Kamion> Kinnison: ready to upload when you are
[06:28] <Kinnison> dputting now then
[06:28] <hunger> Is it normal that changing themes crashes *all* gnome apps?!
[06:33] <mdke_> does anyone know what the decision is on whether the battery icon from g-p-m is shown by default while charging? the consensus on the desktop list seems to be fairly resoundingly in favour of "yes".
[06:35] <Kamion> Kinnison: uploaded
[06:36] <Kinnison> Kamion: rock on
[06:38] <janimo> hunger: I saw that too in xfce but with firefox only
[06:39] <hunger> It is the "Raleigh" theme that does that here... I am filing a bug about that.
[06:39] <janimo> and it was along freeze rather than a crash
[06:39] <mdke_> Kinnison, thanks for the gparted patch
[06:39] <Kinnison> mdke_: y'welcome
[06:40] <mdke_> Kinnison, you do g-p-m right? do you know the answer to my question above about icon-when-on-AC?
[06:41] <Kinnison> mdke_: the default icon policy is 'charge' which means it will
[06:41] <mdke_> hmm
[06:42] <mdke_> so the thread on the desktop list is based kinda on a false premise, i.e. that it isn't
[06:42] <Kinnison> well yes
[06:42] <Kinnison> the default policy has been 'charge' for some time now
[06:42] <mdke_> right
[06:42] <mdke_> thanks
[06:47] <hunger> janimo: I get a pop-up informing me about the crash, one per app.
[06:52] <hunger> Just got a message that my panel is still running on login.
[06:53] <hunger> So I slayed (aka. send a kill signal) to all processes of that user... which locked up my box hard (no ping, nothing:-()
[06:53] <seb128> known bug
[06:54] <hunger> seb128: Good! Then I do not need to send a bugreport:-)
[06:54] <mdke_> Kinnison, oh hang on, it doesn't display when _fully charged_?
[06:54] <seb128> no need ;)
[06:55] <slomo> Kamion: please promote mono-tools (and nant/nunit) to main... main inclusion reports were approved by pitti more than a week ago :)
[06:55] <Kamion> slomo: already done earlier today
[06:56] <slomo> Kamion: oh cool... didn't notice it yet. thanks :)
[06:58] <hunger> seb128: Wait a sec... is it a known bug that the panel stays around after a logout or that the bex freezes when killing all processes of a user?
[06:58] <hunger> s/bex/box/
[06:59] <seb128> panel staying around, there is some bugs about it
[06:59] <seb128> freeze the box is a linux issue
[06:59] <seb128> no app can freeze a box
[06:59] <seb128> or xorg issue if it breaks all the input
[07:00] <hunger> seb128: I know...
[07:00] <hunger> seb128: but it still is a bug (even though I have no idea what to report that against, so I won't).
[07:00] <seb128> sure it is, but probably not easy to figure it
[07:01] <hunger> Might be X or kernel...
[07:01] <seb128> need a good bug with backtrace, stracing, log, etc
[07:01] <hunger> seb128: Yes:-( But I can't get that from my frozen box. So let's just assume it never happened;-)
[07:02] <Kinnison> mdke_: well once fully charged, it's no longer (dis)charging so no, by default the icon does not display under that circumstance
[07:06] <Diziet> Damn, I forgot to prime my ccache and now this ff build is taking forever.
[07:15] <Diziet> Argh, apt is very annoying.
[07:16] <Diziet> How can I test `dist-upgrade but with these .debs here replacing the corresponding ones' ?
[07:16] <Keybuk> Diziet: I thought you only used dpkg-ftp ;)
[07:16] <Diziet> Yes, and Mozilla, and Emacs 19, etc.  But this is company time which is different :-).
[07:16] <Keybuk> Diziet: random FF question ... if I double click on a "ram" file on the desktop, realplay loads.
[07:16] <Keybuk> if I click on a ram link in FF, totem loads
[07:17] <Keybuk> and FF no longer lets me change that
[07:17] <Diziet> keybuk: This is the `you have chosen to open' dialogue.  It's coming back but it still won't be the gnome app selector.
[07:17] <Keybuk> ok, iz bug then
[07:17] <rcaskey_> hey all, I did a dist-upgrade for the first time in almost a week and now all sound is playing back through my PC speaker ;)
[07:17] <rcaskey_> any ideas on what package to file that bug against?
[07:18] <Keybuk> rcaskey_: kernel? alsa-drivers? something like that
[07:18] <Keybuk> you'll need to give a *lot* of information for that one
[07:18] <rcaskey_> Keybuk: joy, any suggestions?
[07:18] <Keybuk> for example, how your PC speaker manages to produce more sounds than just "beep"
[07:18] <Keybuk> which sounds rather like your PC speaker is actually connected to the output of your sound card
[07:19] <rcaskey_> Keybuk: it's a G5, they have those "business audio" speakers built in
[07:19] <Keybuk> rcaskey_: what sound card you have, output of "lspci" and "lspci -n -v", etc.
[07:19] <rcaskey_> I think even Dells have that as an option now
[07:20] <Keybuk> also check things like the volume control
[07:20] <Keybuk> you may find you have the option to turn down the speaker and up the output jack
[07:21] <Keybuk> could be that the last update added support for the internal one
[07:24] <Kinnison> Diziet: You need vmware
[07:24] <Kinnison> Diziet: or I guess qemu
[07:25] <ogra> quemu only if youre very very patient :)
[07:25] <Kinnison> ogra: :-)
[07:25] <Mithrandir> qemu with accellerator is supposedly not so bad.
[07:25] <Kinnison> ogra: I remember testing the warty livecd in qemu
[07:27] <sladen> infinity: http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/upload/usplash_0.1-31usplashdown1.debdiff http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/upload/sysvinit_2.86.ds1-6ubuntu17-usplashdown1.debdiff for the reverse-video on usplashdown
[07:28] <ogra> Mithrandir, you mean the kernel module ? or is there something i'm not aware of
[07:28] <Mithrandir> ogra: yes, the kernel module.
[07:28] <sladen> Kinnison: it's only about 15minutes to desktop without the accelorator ;-)
[07:29] <Mithrandir> sladen: if you could track down wtf is up with qemu + windows and the live cd, I'd appreciate. :-)
[07:29] <sladen> Mithrandir: in what way?  anyting in particular
[07:29] <Mithrandir> sladen: you filed a bug about it not working, iirc?
[07:29] <Kinnison> sladen: aye, but once you hit desktop you pause the emu, save the state, and then you have a breezy snapshot you can work with for upgrade tests :-)
[07:30] <sladen> Mithrandir: yeah, that wasn't specific to windows or qemu, nor was it repeatable..
[07:30] <sladen> Kinnison: cooo.  like it
[07:30] <Kinnison> sladen: I used to use qemu's snapshots for doing linux kernel dev
[07:31] <Kinnison> sladen: I had a qemu setup so that I started the qemu machine, pressed <enter> it mounted the virtual cdrom with the new module on it, loaded it, and ran the test suite
[07:31] <Kinnison> sladen: then when it crashed, I could compile a fix, make a new iso, rinse and repeat
[07:31] <sladen> Kinnison: juicy
[07:32] <Mithrandir> sladen: the /dev/null 660 bug?  If you can't repeat it, I'll just close it with "result of too much cosmic radiation" or something. :-)
[07:33] <sladen> Mithrandir: yup.  If I don't see it again in the next 24hours I will.  Any suggestions what codepath would have got there?
[07:33] <sladen> Mithrandir: in the same session that happened, there was no pointer and no /dev/input/mice either
[07:33] <Mithrandir> sladen: udevd could be freaking out, for some reason.
[07:33] <Mithrandir> sladen: I think I saw it in a circumstance a bit like that..
[07:34] <Diziet> kinnison: I have Xen and LVM which I'm working on for automated testing; I might be able to use it for this too but of course I'm in too much of a hurry to set it up for this ...
[07:34] <Kinnison> Diziet: :-)
[07:35] <Mithrandir> sladen: actually, it's a squashfs bug which I thought was fixed in newer kernels.  Can you verify that you have a semi-recent snapshot and try to reproduce it?  IIRC, it could be caused by a broken kernel module somehow.
[07:35] <Diziet> Xen is soooo coool.  Even though it is a bit annoying at times.
[07:35] <Mithrandir> anyway, cinema.
[07:35] <Diziet> My question about apt was serious, btw.  I need to test a dist-upgrade but have it use my newly-built to-be-tested ff packages instead of the real ones.
[07:35] <hunger> Diziet: Would be cool to have Xen in ubuntu:-)
[07:36] <Diziet> hunger: It's not in Debian yet.  There are some, erm, problems with the upstream packaging.  There are guys working on it.
[07:36] <hunger> Diziet: The problem is with the kernel stuff.
[07:36] <Diziet> The thing is, the hard part is setting up a machine to be a Xen host.  You have to have a different kernel, mess with the boot config, etc.  All easy if done by hand but quite a PITA to do safely automatically.
[07:37] <Diziet> The current unofficial packages are quite good - they get you most of the way there and just leave the tricky (dangerous) bits to you.
[07:37] <hunger> Diziet: The userspace stuff is pretty simple.
[07:37] <Diziet> Yes.
[07:37] <Robot101> er, provided your networking config is simple
[07:37] <Diziet> I meant the current unoffial hypervisor.
[07:38] <Diziet> Yes, the default networking scripts are a bit TOTALLY INSANE.
[07:38] <Diziet> And upstream seem to be ignoring me about their stupid tcp csum `optimisation'.
[07:38] <Diziet> I might go and badger them on the -devel list instead :-).
[07:38] <Robot101> rename eth0 to peth0. make a new virtual interface pair with yourself. make up some MAC addresses. join some interfaces together in a bridge. smoke lots of crack. copy some IP addresses around...
[07:39] <hunger> Diziet: The hypervisor is simple to package, too... (apart from integrating it into grub of course).
[07:39] <Robot101> it doesn't help that the bridge code is just buggy
[07:39] <Robot101> if your network wibbles in a certain way, you win an interface you can never use again with the bridge
[07:39] <Diziet> Joy.
[07:39] <sladen> Mithrandir: that's a point, I also have a backtrace from squashfs.ko crashing
[07:39] <Diziet> The supplied route scripts are less insane.  Although they do turn on ip_forward without asking, which is a bit loony.
[07:40] <Robot101> Diziet: I've been quite tempted to just rip a lot of it out and set up what we actually want in /etc/network/interfaces
[07:40] <Robot101> at least we'll know what the hell is going on then
[07:40] <Diziet> Yes.  My testbed builder script just writes /etc/network/interfaces for you.
[07:41] <Diziet> And uses a script=<its own script> which does a more sensible thing.
[07:41] <Robot101> the vif-bridge script is reasonable, make a virtual interface, add it to the bridge
[07:41] <Robot101> yeah
[07:41] <Diziet> Right.  It's the setup that's insane.
[07:41] <Robot101> I don't like the way that xencons mystically disappears your serial devices
[07:41] <Robot101> that's *fucking annoying*
[07:42] <Diziet> You have to have   <distro>.adt.<your-domain-here>  in your DNS for my script, which is a bit evil, but I haven't done any config parsing for it :-).
[07:42] <Robot101> if xencons is on, both your hardware serial devices disappear, so you can't use ttyS1 from userland any more
[07:42] <Diziet> robot101: Hrmf.  Also, the handling of the VGA and keyboard is a bit mad.
[07:42] <Robot101> and also if you have serial built as a module, that module fails to load, so you can't use any PCI serial devices either
[07:43] <Robot101> so we've got some totally insane bodge together of built-in serial that doesn't work, bios console redirection, and hnnarhghn nangllkrha nrnad
[07:43] <sladen> Robot101: presumbly you map the real serial devices to one of the virtual kernels?
[07:43] <Robot101> sladen: oh no, that'd actually work. they removed the ability to delegate PCI devices to domains in the initial 3.0 release, I think its back now.
[07:44] <Diziet> On the other hand, unlike just about every other virtualisation scheme out there, it doesn't totally suck.
[07:44] <Robot101> sladen: but the hypervisor itself sits on both hardware serial ports, and then exposes only one of them as your /dev/tty in dom0.
[07:44] <sladen> Robot101: did they start employing feature-removal experts from GNOME?
[07:44] <coyctecm> there are some updates for breezy but depencies are not ok
[07:44] <Robot101> sladen: which if you had a pair of machines which were serial consoling each other, is more than slightly annoying
[07:45] <sladen> Robot101: in that case, the hypervisor is buggy
[07:45] <rcaskey_> Keybuk: thanks for your help, filed at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/34237
[07:45] <Ubugtu> malone bug 34237 in alsa-driver "Powermac G5 plays audio from internal speaker when speakers are connected" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[07:45] <Robot101> sladen: actually, it might be the serial driver, if it can't get both ttyS0 and ttyS1, it bails
[07:46] <Robot101> sladen: but the way that "xencons" pretends to be your ttyS0 is just sheer crack cut with iron filings
[07:48] <sladen> Robot101: so, setserial ttyS1 uart none  doesn't help 
[07:49] <Robot101> sladen: no, that'd talk to the serial driver, which has already failed to load and given up on both ttyS0 and S1
[07:49] <Diziet> Does that mean no-one knows the answer to my apt question ?  Perhaps you can't do it with apt.
[07:49] <Diziet> I could use dpkg-ftp but I suspect that's not quite going to be an accurate test of the normal user experience.
[07:50] <Robot101> Diziet: you need to make a Packages list and add the packages to sources.list
[07:51] <mvo> Diziet: what was your apt question again?
[07:51] <Diziet> robot101: Urgh, pain.
[07:52] <Robot101> Diziet: apt has a file:/ method, and you don't need to do a full dists/bla/bla tree, you can just do deb file://home/foo/bar /
[07:52] <sladen> Diziet: sudo dpkg -i firefox*iwj*.deb   Ctrl-C  sudo apt-get dist-upgrade ?
[07:53] <Diziet> sladen: I tried that already.  That's why I'm reinstalling.
[07:53] <Diziet> Robot101: Ah, thanks.  I'll try that.
[07:54] <Robot101> Diziet: then obviously apt-ftparchive packages . >Packages or dpkg-scanpackages . /dev/null >Packages
[07:54] <Robot101> depending on how you feel on that particular day. :)
[07:54] <mvo> Diziet: do you know when you will come to london to talk about malone?
[07:55] <Diziet> dpkg-scanpackages seemed to work nicely.
[07:55] <Diziet> mvo: Week after next, probably.
[07:55] <Diziet> The sprint is still going then IIRC ?
[07:56] <mvo> Diziet: yes, AFAIK it's two weeks
[07:56] <Robot101> surely it might become more of a bedraggled crawl after that long? :)
[07:59] <Diziet> Tomorrow I'll send a mail inviting the distro team to think about what they want me to say to you, and then hopefully they'll all mail me while I'm on holiday and I can clarify when I get back and come to London on Wed or Thu or so.
[08:03] <sabdfl> JaneW: how do you like the spec system changes?
[08:04] <rcaskey_> btw fridge is busted
[08:05] <rcaskey_> top tabs are in the middle of the 2nd article
[08:11] <BenC> Unpacking slocate (from .../slocate_2.7-4_i386.deb) ...
[08:11] <BenC> Removing `diversion of /etc/cron.daily/find to /etc/cron.daily/find.notslocate by slocate'
[08:11] <BenC> dpkg-divert: rename involves overwriting `/etc/cron.daily/find' with
[08:11] <BenC>   different file `/etc/cron.daily/find.notslocate', not allowed
[08:11] <BenC> anyone know what is up with that? That is supposedly from a fresh install of breezy trying to upgrade
[08:14] <BenC> s/upgrade/update/ to latest security patches
[08:19] <Diziet> benc: I just upgraded a fresh breezy to latest security patches.  Three times today already.  And it didn't do that :-).
[08:20] <BenC> did slocate end up being installed?
[08:20] <ogra> ita in the default install, it should be there
[08:21] <ogra> *its
[08:27] <Diziet> BenC: Yes.,
[08:28] <BenC> somehow this guy can't seem to get a clean install to start with, and then he has this problem after the install
[08:29] <BenC> also, somehow his sources.list is showing http://.archive.ubuntu.com (notice the period before archive)
[08:29] <ogra> there was a bug during development where mirrors were not prefixed right i remember ...
[08:30] <BenC> this is a released Ubuntu 5.10 CD, supposedly
[08:30] <ogra> hmm
[08:30] <ogra> do you know his locale ? 
[08:33] <BenC> I think korea, but I'm not positive
[08:38] <mdke_> Kinnison, that's what has bothered everyone on the desktop list. it should def. display when fully charged too. Otherwise, to figure out your battery is fully charged, you have to rely on the _absence_ of the icon, which is crazy stuff.
[08:38] <Kinnison> mdke_: I may yet change it back to 'always' now that 'always' means 'always unless you're a desktop'
[08:39] <mdke_> Kinnison, oh that would be wonderful.
[08:39] <mdke_> Kinnison, i suppose there is no chance of taking it out of the notification area and putting in the applet area? =)
[08:41] <ogra> mdke_, that'd be a rewrite and you would get problems displaying this many icons ...
[08:42] <ogra> g-p-m handles way more than laptop batteries
[08:42] <ogra> s/handles/is designed to handle :)/s
[08:43] <mdke_> ogra, yes, it was a joke. I know it can't be done for this release. But it shouldn't be in the notification area, in the long term
[08:43] <Kinnison> mdke_: try using g-p-m on a machine with a UPS and wireless keyboard and mouse plugged in
[08:43] <ogra> yeah
[08:44] <mdke_> i don't mind, I'll be happy if you set 'always'
[08:53] <Kamion> BenC: sounds like a weird choose-mirror bug which I thought was fixed
[08:53] <Kamion> actually, no, probably apt-setup
[08:53] <Kamion> BenC: he should file a bug on apt-setup (as a first guess) with /var/log/syslog from the installer
[08:53] <BenC> Kamion: well, I asked him to try a new install using UK
[08:53] <Kamion> which is /var/log/installer/syslog after installation
[08:54] <Kamion> BenC: I'd very much like to extract the syslog before he blats it
[08:54] <Kamion> meh, UI sprint lot have disappeared
[08:54] <BenC> Kamion: I'll see if I can get the log
[10:14] <BenC> do raw-installer uploads have to be added to the archive by-hand?
[10:25] <bronson> Is there any talk about packaging ivtv for Ubuntu?
[10:26] <tseng> ivtv requires binary firmware that isnt distributable
[10:26] <tseng> its not exactly a candidate imo
[10:27] <bronson> That's too bad.  Dapper makes a pretty good myth box.  I love the short boot times.
[10:27] <tseng> we typically dont ship half of a driver
[10:28] <bronson> You mean without the firmware?
[10:28] <tseng> yes
[10:30] <bronson> Do you suppose a mscorefonts-style download would be OK?
[10:30] <bronson> Seems like it would be -- the files are on multiple sites for free download.
[10:30] <bronson> The problem is shipping *with* Ubuntu.
[10:33] <bronson> Assuming the firmware isn't a problem, how tough would it be to make an ivtv package?
[10:33] <bronson> The problem would be keeping up with all the new kernels.
[10:34] <bronson> I would like to package ivtv... but I can't imagine spinning a new package every week...
[10:39] <trappist> could package ivtv source and let m-a build it
[10:41] <bronson> trappist, m-a?
[10:41] <trappist> module-assistant
[10:42] <bronson> sounds good.
[10:43] <trappist> of course if you could get ivtv into the kernel package, you wouldn't have to keep up with anything
[10:43] <bronson> amen to that.
[10:43] <bronson> they're working on it... about half done.
[10:43] <bronson> but that was the easy half.  i2c drivers & stuff like that.
[10:43] <trappist> no I mean into the ubuntu kernel, not the linus kernel
[10:43] <bronson> Oh.
[10:43] <bronson> Well, true.  I'd ask Ben?
[10:44] <trappist> might see if they're interested in #ubuntu-kernel
[10:44] <bronson> ok, will do.
[10:44] <trappist> I'm guessing no, though
[10:44] <trappist> seeing as how it wants that pesky firmware
[10:44] <trappist> but it's worth a shot
[10:44] <bronson> Well, *I'd* say no, if I were maintaining it
[10:44] <bronson> but, as you say, worth a shot.  :)
[10:45] <trappist> maybe somebody over there has a new hauppauge card and will be sympathetic :)
[10:45] <thetide> these need to go today 2 laptops, both made by good manufacturers. price is 500$ each for them and include shipping, case and wireless router.  message me if interested on aim at ogd443 or msn at mcsltd2@hotmail.com
[11:03] <thetide> these need to go today 2 laptops, both made by good manufacturers. price is 500$ each for them and include shipping, case and wireless router.  message me if interested on aim at ogd443 or msn at mcsltd2@hotmail.com
[11:03] <bronson> op bronson
[11:03] <bronson> heh
[11:07] <bronson> thetide is systematically spamming a whole bunch of channels.  sigh.
[11:53] <CarlFK> trying to scp the logs off from todays dapper "cups error"  - what do I anna-install to get scp?
[11:55] <CarlFK> anna-install openssh-client-udeb
[12:01] <Kamion> FYI: all archive processing stalled, soyuz bug