[12:04] <ogra> meh
[12:26] <ccharles> does anyone wknow what the freeze date for dapper is?
[12:26] <LaserJock> ccharles: wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[12:26] <hub> it is currently
[12:27] <LaserJock> hub: depends on what freeze we are talking about ;-)
[12:28] <Surak> speaking on that, string freeze is five days from now on. someone at ubuntubrasil said that the wiser would be translate for breezy, that dapper will sync strings from breezy's rosetta. is this correct?
[12:30] <hub> LaserJock: ah right
[12:32] <Surak> I put two of my employees translating ubuntu on rosetta for breezy for eight hours a day, so we can improve ubuntu. Is breezy the correct target?
[12:35] <Burgwork> Surak, the person you need to talk to Martin Pitt, who lives in Germany and is thus likely asleep
[12:37] <Surak> Burgwork: do you know what nickname he uses here, so I can leave him a memo?
[12:37] <Burgwork> Surak, pitti
[12:38] <ajmitch_> I'd send an email rather than hoping he checks memos on freenode
[12:41] <Surak> ajmitch_ : you are correct. done.
[02:24] <Kyral> I think I found a cause to my GTK Breakiness
[02:24] <Surak> Kyral : which kind of break?
[02:24] <Surak> /s what 
[02:24] <Kyral> GNOME and XFCE breakign on startup like CRAZY
[02:25] <Kyral> I've noticed a wierd error in my Dist-Upgrades...
[02:25] <Kyral> lemme get it again and pastebin it
[02:28] <Kyral> ...in 15 mins when its finished...
[02:48] <Kyral> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9944
[02:50] <Kyral> Thats the error
[02:52] <ajmitch_> Kyral: and have you filed a bug?
[02:52] <Kyral> ajmitch_: I dunno what package to file it on
[02:52] <Kyral> its affecting waaay too much
[03:37] <Mez> infinity, ping
[03:37] <infinity> pong
[03:38] <infinity> Are you volunteering to do Flight-5 prep testing? :)
[03:38] <infinity> How kind.
[03:39] <LaserJock> infinity: does that mean Flight5 will be out soonish?
[03:39] <infinity> LaserJock: That's the general plan... Unless it doesn't happen.
[03:39] <ajmitch_> great, I imght have a new amd64 box to test it on next week
[03:40] <Mez> infinity, well - I'd love to - but i'd need a machine to install to :d
[03:40] <infinity> And by next week, you mean "right now", right?
[03:40] <Mez> infinity, no - referring to the scim hack - you looked at it yet
[03:40] <LaserJock> infinity: ok, I was thinking of installing Flight4 but I'll just wait until 5 is out
[03:41] <infinity> Mez: Nope.  Let me take 5 minutes out and poke it right now, so you can stop bugging me. :)
[03:41] <Mez> infinity, lol ;)
[03:44] <Lathiat> infinity: im up for some testing
[03:44] <Lathiat> infinity: is the bug i reported fixed? breaking kubuntu installs atm
[03:44] <Lathiat> dunno if itl break an ubuntu install or not
[03:44] <Kamion> Lathiat: yes
[03:44] <Mez> Lathiat, which bug?
[03:44] <Lathiat> Kamion: sweet
[03:45] <Kamion> fixed as of this morning, although there may not have been new CD builds yet
[03:45] <Mez> ;)
[03:45] <Mez> so wen can we expect espresso ?
[03:45] <Kamion> er ... in fact there probably won't have been since the CD cronjobs are disabled
[03:45] <Lathiat> ive got two laptops and an amd64 ready and waiting for testing :)
[03:45] <Lathiat> Kamion: heh
[03:45] <Kamion> Mez: oh, I dunno, how about the Flight CD 4 release announcement
[03:45] <Mez> Kamion, oh...
[03:45] <infinity> Kamion: Keep 'em disabled anyway, dailies will just mess with my head. :)
[03:45] <Mez> er
[03:45] <Lathiat> i have to try that
[03:45] <Kamion> infinity: right
[03:45] <Mez> Kamion, whoops ;)
[03:46] <Mez> Kamion, I dont really read them as i update hourly - I assume I've got all the new features ;)
[03:46] <infinity> Mez: Erm, dude.  libscim8 conflicts with libscim8, libscim-dev depends on libscim8c2a, and a variety of other breakages...
[03:46] <Surak> Kamion: espresso is not available for translation in rosetta, isn't it?
[03:47] <infinity> Mez: Also, why change bits of the packaging that shouldn't relate at all (changing the config.{sub,guess} handling from symlinks to copies?
[03:47] <Mez> infinity, lol - ok - but - er - still - the control file needs fixing - but the issue is it not being overwritten
[03:47] <Kamion> Surak: not yet, I still need to sort out internationalisation of it in general, sorry
[03:47] <Mez> infinity, that change was because it FTBFS unless I changed it
[03:47] <Kamion> and before doing that I need to make a somewhat complicated extension to debconf
[03:47] <Kamion> should happen soon though
[03:48] <Kamion> Mez: most of the reason I bother writing release announcements is to describe the things that can't be seen by people just updating regularly
[03:48] <Kamion> i.e. installer / live CD changes
[03:48] <Mez> Kamion, ah - see-  I didnt know that - I thought it was just to keep people up to date with new stuff ;)
[03:48] <Kamion> it's only very recently that they've described *anything* other than installer and live CD changes
[03:50] <infinity> Mez: Dude.  Is it okay for me to visit violence on you now? :)
[03:50] <minghua> Mez: infinity what is this scim problem you are discussing?
[03:50] <Mez> infinity, lol - not exactly
[03:51] <Mez> seeing as it still doesnt solve my question
[03:51] <infinity> minghua: Just some backporting issues Mez is having.
[03:51] <Mez> which is why is the control hack not working
[03:51] <Mez> at all
[03:51] <Mez> it's not even replacing the control file
[03:51] <infinity> Right, which is obvious.
[03:51] <infinity> So, you want to use lsb_release in your debian/rules, right?
[03:51] <minghua> yeah, I figured that out when I remember Mez is the backport guy
[03:51] <infinity> And build-deps from from the .dsc file, right?
[03:51] <infinity> Which is generated when the source package is built, with dapper's control file.
[03:52] <infinity> (build-deps need to be the same in both control files)
[03:52] <infinity> The end.
[03:52] <Mez> the B-D's are fine :D
[03:52] <infinity> Uhm, no, they're not.
[03:52] <infinity> Look again.
[03:52] <Mez> whats wrong with it ?
[03:52] <infinity> I just explained.
[03:53] <infinity> Build-deps are parse from the .dsc file, which is generated from debian/control.  You only added your build-deps to debian/control-breezy
[03:53] <infinity> You can't do that.
[03:53] <infinity> Build-dpes are parsed way before your hack comes into effect.
[03:53] <infinity> deps, too.
[03:53] <Mez> build deps dont change ...
[03:54] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~/scim/scim-1.4.4/debian$ diff -u control control-breezy
[03:54] <infinity> -Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 4.0.0), dpatch, autotools-dev, intltool, x-dev | xlibs-dev, libx11-dev | xlibs-dev, libgtk2.0-dev (>= 2.4.0), libxt-dev | xlibs-dev
[03:54] <infinity> +Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 4.0.0), dpatch, autotools-dev, intltool, x-dev | xlibs-dev, libx11-dev | xlibs-dev, libgtk2.0-dev (>= 2.4.0), libxt-dev | xlibs-dev, base-files, lsb-release
[03:54] <Mez> ah - lol that was cause i forgot to remove that from the -breezy one ;)
[03:54] <Mez> lol
[03:55] <Mez> as you said before I didnt need it
[03:55] <infinity> You don't need base-files, you /do/ need lsb-release
[03:55] <infinity> It's hard to call it if it isn't there.
[03:55] <Mez> maybe thats why it isnt working
[03:56] <Mez> or is there something else I'm missing ?
[03:56] <infinity> In other news, your hack breaks the clean target.
[03:56] <Mez> o_O
[03:57] <infinity> You really want something more robust like "if [ blah ] ; then mv control control-dapper && cp control-breezy control; fi" and the reverse in clean.
[03:57] <infinity> Otherwise, you've just overwritten control with control-breezy, and a new build of the source package will get breezy's control.
[03:58] <infinity> (err, make that first mv a cp as well)
[03:58] <infinity> But you get the idea.
[03:58] <Mez> I see...
[03:58] <Mez> though I never thought about it being outside of a chroot environment
[03:58] <Mez> like pbuild or a buildd
[03:59] <infinity> In theory, from any point in a build, you should be able to do "debian/rules clean" and return to pristine source.
[03:59] <infinity> There are some notably broken exceptions in the archive, but I'd prefer they remain exceptions, rather than becoming the rule. :)
[04:00] <minghua> infinity: even if one of the target in debian/rules is not finished?  that would be pretty hard, I think
[04:00] <infinity> minghua: Well, not if it's still running, but if it's "finished", as in "died", then yes.
[04:00] <minghua> not every upstream makefile cleans very well after an interrupt in buildding
[04:01] <infinity> minghua: But yes, some upstream makefiles are broken (I've fixed a few to clean properly in packages I've maintained)
[04:01] <infinity> minghua: And some are so hopelessly broken that a more violent approach (copy everything to build/ and rm -rf build/ in clean) works well. :)
[04:01] <minghua> infinity: Hmm, I see.  Maybe I should learn autotools and start fixing upstream makefiles as well
[04:02] <Mez> infinity, I've made the changes to the control/rules files
[04:02] <Mez> I'll test and upload again to revu if it doesnt work
[04:03] <infinity> Mez: Upload to REVU anyway, I'd like to give it a once-over.
[04:03] <Mez> infinity, no probs
[04:03] <Mez> I dont even know why I'm doing this
[04:04] <infinity> Backports may magically work in a few days.  Shhh.
[04:04] <Mez> infinity, maybe - but isnt that because of the whole making it an uploadable target?
[04:05] <Mez> or have you been playing with the buildds?
[04:05] <infinity> The latter.
[04:05] <Mez> lol ;)
[04:05] <Mez> fair enough
[04:05] <Mez> I thought it was laiunchpad not the buildd's
[04:05] <Mez> ;)
[04:06] <Mez> though - we still gotta get them past elmo - and he's gotta re-make his scripts for soyuz
[04:06] <Mez> or not ...
[04:06] <Mez> mv: cannot stat `debian/control-breezy': No such file or directory
[04:06] <Mez> it nearly worked
[04:07] <infinity> You want cp -f
[04:08] <Mez> cp -f?
[04:08] <Mez> what difference does that make if it cant find the file ?
[04:08] <infinity> Oh, right.
[04:08] <Mez> lol
[04:08] <infinity> [ -f foo ]  && cp foo
[04:09] <Mez> though that was before I made the changes
[04:09] <Mez> so I'll try again
[04:09] <Kinnison> g'night
[04:09] <ogra> night Kinnison 
[04:10] <Mez> night Kinnison 
[04:10] <Mez> msg infinity I'm getting a strange error now
[04:10] <Mez> grr
[04:10] <Mez> s/msg//
[04:10] <Mez> /bin/sh: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
[04:11] <infinity> I'll let you figure that one out yourself by retracing your steps. :)
[04:11] <Kamion> that's usually because you forgot a trailing ` or ) or something like that in one of your commands
[04:11] <Mez> hmmles
[04:12] <sbalneav> Evening all
[04:13] <Mez> ]  EXPECTED
[04:13] <Mez> wtf?
[04:14] <infinity> Still missing a closing quote or something.
[04:14] <Mez>         if [ `lsb_release -c -s` = "breezy" ] ;
[04:14] <Mez>          then
[04:14] <Mez>                 cp debian/control debian/control-dapper
[04:14] <Mez>                 cp debian/control-breezy debian/control
[04:14] <Mez>         fi
[04:14] <Mez> I dont see a missing closing quote
[04:15] <Kamion> I don't see any backslashes for command continuation across lines either
[04:16] <Kamion> this is make - commands are single-line-only unless you put a backslash at the end to tell it otherwise
[04:17] <Mez> I'm editing the wrong bit thats why
[04:17] <Mez> grr
[04:17] <Mez> /bin/sh: line 0: [: missing `] '
[04:17] <Mez> still gives me that though
[04:18] <infinity> if [ foo ] ; then \
[04:18] <infinity> bar
[04:18] <infinity> Err.. A \ on that bar too. :)
[04:18] <Mez> if [ `lsb_release -c -s` = "breezy"] ; then \
[04:18] <Mez>                 cp debian/control debian/control-breezy; \
[04:18] <Mez>                 cp debian/control-dapper debian/control; \
[04:18] <Mez>         fi
[04:18] <Mez> is what I have
[04:18] <Mez> it works now
[04:18] <Mez> but is still giving me a "/bin/sh: line 0: [: missing `] '"
[04:18] <ogra> put a space in 
[04:19] <ajmitch_> whitespace is important
[04:19] <ogra>  if [ `lsb_release -c -s` = "breezy"] ; then \ should be
[04:19] <ogra>  if [ `lsb_release -c -s` = "breezy" ] ; then \
[04:21] <infinity> win 16
[04:21] <infinity> lose 17
[04:21] <infinity> Oh well.
[04:21] <Surak> night people.
[04:59] <hub> interested in a dist-upgrade that cause trouble booting?
[05:00] <hub> just happened for the second time on the same PC
[05:00] <hub> *sigh*
[05:01] <infinity> hub: Might be interested in bug reports, if you know what package is angering you.
[05:01] <hub> infinity: it hangs on "Loading hardware drivers..."
[05:01] <hub> at least it did just before
[05:02] <hub> seems to go trhu this time
[05:02] <hub> but really slowly
[05:02] <Amaranth> great, a security bug in gpg
[05:02] <hub> infinity: what package would it be?
[05:02] <minghua> Amaranth: another one?
[05:03] <Amaranth> minghua: this one is on slashdot, it might be the one you're thinking of
[05:03] <Amaranth> basically signing something proves nothing, which is loads of fun
[05:04] <minghua> Amaranth: oh no, this is a new one, and sounds more serious
[05:04] <Amaranth> http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-announce/2006q1/000216.html
[05:04] <Amaranth> just published today
[05:04] <Amaranth> so it's new
[05:04] <minghua> the one I was thinking of is not a security bug per se
[05:06] <minghua> and metioned at the beginning of the mail Amaranth links to
[05:07] <Amaranth> holy shit, the diff between 1.4.2.1 and 1.4.2.2 is 101k
[05:07] <hub> uh oh
[05:07] <Amaranth> that's going to be hell to backport to breezy and hoary versions
[05:08] <Amaranth> pitti is going to be very angry tomorrow :P
[05:08] <hub> Amaranth: why not just backporting the complete package in that case?
[05:08] <Amaranth> that's probably what'll have to happen
[05:09] <Amaranth> if it took a 101k patch to fix the very latest release...
[05:12] <infinity> hub: You could start with udev (which Keybuk loves getting bugs on) and work with him to debug from there if it's a kernel bug, or udev hanging.
[05:13] <hub> infinity: that machine has booted this time
[05:13] <hub> infinity: after kicking it with the power switch
[05:13] <hub> infinity: reminds me the office :-/
[05:13] <infinity> hub: Kay, well, please don't file it unless you can reproduce it, or it'll be impossible to find. :)
[05:14] <hub> infinity: yeah
[05:14] <hub> infinity: that's why I came here first
[05:14] <hub> sort of
[05:24] <fabbione> morning
[05:24] <ajmitch_> morning fabbione 
[05:26] <hub> hey
[06:36] <fabbione> for people that do NOT read the topic:
[06:36] <fabbione>  Flight5 in preparation - all uploads must be authorized by infinity/mithrandir <-
[06:36] <fabbione> we want an installable archive, hmmmml?
[06:36] <fabbione> s/ml/mk/
[06:37] <ajmitch_> fabbione: all uploads to main, or really all?
[06:38] <LaserJock> jeeze, will the kernel source troll never end?
[06:38] <Mithrandir> ajmitch_: just main should be fine, unless you have something lying about which is in universe but makes main uninstallable.
[06:39] <infinity> (Which would be a neat trick)
[06:40] <Mithrandir> ajmitch_: we do use a few things in universe for building the CDs, like squashfs-tools, so I'll be very unhappy if you manage to break that in such a way that the cd building fails, for instance. :-)
[06:41] <Mithrandir> unsure if we use the dapper or breezy version, though
[06:42] <ajmitch_> Mithrandir: I'm not likely to do uploads for a couple of days anyway, though breaking a cd build is the best way to get lots of people angry at me :)
[06:42] <fabbione> LaserJock: what kernel source troll?
[06:42] <fabbione> LaserJock: the one about .12 source code?
[06:43] <LaserJock> fabbione: yeah, the second time
[06:43] <fabbione> just ignore him
[06:44] <LaserJock> sure, I can ignore him, but sometimes I like to vent a little frustration on that type of behaviour. I wonder what he is thinking or what his motivation is.
[06:45] <fabbione> LaserJock: instaed of trying to give him apt-get source commands
[06:45] <ajmitch_> hopefully it's just ignorance?
[06:45] <fabbione> just give him the URL to the source
[06:45] <fabbione> his sources.list might be pointing to something royally wrong
[06:45] <fabbione> end of the story :)
[06:46] <LaserJock> I suppose, I just like being passive-agressive I guess. ;-)
[06:48] <LaserJock> I'm not very good at being aggresive, that is why it is good to have ajmitch_  around
[06:48] <ajmitch_> haha
[06:49] <ajmitch_> I was rather calm & polite dealing with someone on the forums yesterday - my sole purpose there is to tell them to file proper bugs in malone
[06:49] <LaserJock> I though you did a great job of showing restraint. I think I would have been harsher
[06:49] <ajmitch_> anyway, back to NZ & active ubuntu hacking tomorrow
[07:21] <pitti> Good morning
[07:24] <ajmitch_> morning pitti 
[07:25] <pitti> hey ajmitch_, how are you donig?
[07:25] <pitti> doing, even
[07:27] <Kyral> night all
[07:27] <ajmitch_> good, how are you?
[07:27] <pitti> ajmitch_: pretty tired, but ok :)
[07:27] <ajmitch_> yeah :)
[07:27] <ajmitch_> have you been at the UI sprint?
[07:27] <Kyral> I love that little exchange "Morning..." "Good night" :P
[07:28] <pitti> ajmitch_: no, I am at home
[07:28] <pitti> ajmitch_: you shouldn't let me near UI design :-P
[07:28] <ajmitch_> heh
[07:28] <ajmitch_> I'm finally going to get back to ubuntu hacking next week, flying back to NZ tomorrow :)
[07:28] <freeflying-ibook> pitti: hey ,will you be at the i18n sprint  next week ?
[07:29] <pitti> ajmitch_: oh, where are you now?
[07:29] <pitti> freeflying-ibook: hey
[07:29] <pitti> freeflying-ibook: no, nobody told me about it :/
[07:29] <ajmitch_> pitti: brisbane, australia
[07:36] <pitti> ajmitch_: quick, before we kill 'em all  :)
[07:36] <ajmitch_> I'd better hurry..
[07:38] <pitti> Hey zyga, how are you?
[07:39] <zyga> pitti: hey, fine
[07:39] <zyga> I'm slowly getting to work today, how about you? :)
[07:40] <pitti> same for me, trying to get fully awake
[07:40] <zyga> I've just upgraded and noticed the brand new theme
[07:40] <zyga> what do you think about it?
[08:16] <pitti> zyga: I didn't see it yet, I have to create a fresh test user for it
[08:18] <zyga> pitti: there are some problems with it
[08:19] <zyga> vuntz has a nice screenshot
[08:19] <zyga> same thing has happened to me
[08:19] <vuntz> nice screenshot is http://tmp.vuntz.net/Screenshot-Ubuntu%20Servers:%20%23ubuntu-desktop-1.png
[08:20] <pitti> whoa - orange
[08:21] <Kamion> I like the new progress bars
[08:21] <Kamion> concur with "whoa - orange" :-)
[08:22] <zyga> oh segmented!
[08:22] <Kamion> vuntz: I don't get anything like the grey gradient on your menus
[08:23] <Kamion> whoa, weird scrollbar grips
[08:23] <zyga> Kamion: it happened to me twice, unable to reproduce again
[08:23] <jdub> mm, the scrollbar ends are a little bit odd
[08:23] <zyga> heh
[08:23] <jdub> vuntz: switch to a totally different engine, then back to ubuntulooks
[08:24] <zyga> we should rename dapper dake to ubuntu revolution
[08:24] <jdub> vuntz: you on x86?
[08:24] <Kamion> I can see how they're useful, but they do have a very distracting effect by drawing your eyes a long way away from the mouse pointer
[08:24] <vuntz> jdub: I did it :-) doing it again
[08:24] <vuntz> jdub: yes
[08:24] <jdub> vuntz: that's a pity, i was hoping i could blame some second-tier architecture completely by guesswork
[08:24] <vuntz> mmhhh... nice nuclearish green :-)
[08:25] <irvin> hehe
[08:26] <zyga> firefox consumes 100% cpu after few theme changes
[08:26] <ajmitch_> jdub: yeah I get the lovely green/black effects also, it's quite colourful
[08:27] <infinity> jdub: The new theme ate my leftover pizza and raped my girlfriend.
[08:27] <irvin> the red/orange gradient effect hurts my eyes
[08:28] <HrdwrBoB> the new theme made my mother yell at me over the phone
[08:32] <dilinger> haha
[08:34] <zyga> the best icon I've seen in quite some time
[08:37] <infinity> Kamion: A) Why are you alive, B) Are you down with the inner workings of the publisher?
[08:37] <infinity> Kamion: Err s/alive/alive already/
[08:39] <fabbione> i think Kamion is on the way to London for the UI sprint
[08:39] <infinity> Oh, well he was here 15 mins ago. :)
[08:41] <zyga> bye guys, have to get to work 
[09:39] <Burgundavia> salut sabdfl
[09:40] <Burgundavia> Kinnison: I will blog tomorrow, but I have very cool news about Ubuntu and Edubuntu being used for a large local project here
[09:40] <Kinnison> burg: cool
[09:41] <sabdfl> hey all, Burgundavia
[09:44] <highvoltage> hi sabdfl 
[09:44] <sabdfl> hey hey
[09:48] <Burgundavia> sabdfl: we need a press release heralding the fact that dapper can now run on Intel Macs
[09:49] <sabdfl> Burgundavia: can run, but i'm not sure that dapper will detect and install correctly without nudging
[09:49] <Burgundavia> I think we should release it just after Flight 5, assuming it works
[09:49] <infinity> Install CDs building.
[09:49] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: would that be the i386 version?
[09:49] <infinity> fabbione: Including one for you, out of the kindness of little's heart.
[09:49] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: I assume so
[09:49] <fabbione> infinity: cool
[09:49] <sabdfl> Burgundavia: if the release support intel mac's then HELL YES
[09:49] <fabbione> thanks dude
[09:50] <Burgundavia> infinity: do you know of flight 5 will work ootb on Mactel?
[09:50] <infinity> Burgundavia: Not sure, you'd have to ask mjg59, but I think we may still be a few patches short.
[09:50] <infinity> Burgundavia: I'm all for people trying, though. :)
[09:51] <infinity> Oh, wait, I think elilo still needs love.
[09:51] <infinity> So you probably won't be able to boot it. :)
[09:51] <Burgundavia> damn
[09:51] <infinity> A minor issue.
[09:51] <infinity> I hear booting is for pansies.
[09:51] <Burgundavia> the reason I say it now is that MS just announced it will not support EFI for Vista
[09:52] <infinity> We noticed.
[09:52] <infinity> We'll "probably" support it ootb for dapper, and definitely for dapper+1.
[09:52] <Burgundavia> and no other distro has said anything
[09:52] <infinity> There's plenty of effort going on to make it happen for dapper, though (if it doesn't destabilise the world in the process)
[09:58] <Burgundavia> infinity: sabdfl, if elilo is not ready, I won't kill myself and stay up till 3 writing a press release. Beta is not too far away. I think that would be great target as well
[09:58] <infinity> Burgundavia: Oh, no point in a release for RIGHT NOW, but if you want to prepare one on the off chance that we can use it in a week or two, go nuts. :)
[09:59] <Burgundavia> infinity: I will do so over the weekend
[09:59] <pitti> seb128: hey
[10:00] <Burgundavia> anyway, night all
[10:00] <seb128> Mithrandir: I'm going to do some artwork upload today probably
[10:00] <seb128> pitti: hi
[10:00] <infinity> seb128: Not right now, you're not. :)
[10:00] <Mithrandir> seb128: after flight-5, please.
[10:00] <Mithrandir> unless it's OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING-critical
[10:00] <seb128> Mithrandir: after UI sprint when I'm home you mean? :)
[10:01] <Mithrandir> seb128: sure.  Flight-5 is today unless the world falls down over our heads.
[10:01] <pitti> dholbach: *hug*
[10:01] <Mithrandir> (also preemptively)
[10:01] <infinity> Poor ia64, still uninstallable... I guess I get to fix that on Monday.
[10:03] <seb128> Mithrandir: joke aside, when is flight 5? Because that's likely we will have to do some uploads for UI sprint today
[10:03] <infinity> seb128: we're working on it right now.
[10:04] <seb128> k
[10:04] <infinity> seb128: Can you queue the uploads?
[10:04] <Mithrandir> seb128: today.  install images are built, live images are building.
[10:04] <dholbach> Mithrandir: fine with me
[10:04] <dholbach> hi everybody
[10:04] <seb128> infinity: if Mark is happy with it sure
[10:04] <infinity> Mithrandir: You're assuming those are the only images we're building. :)
[10:04] <infinity> s/we're/you're/ to be perfectly clear, since I'm not here all night. ;)
[10:04] <seb128> do you guys have the new ubuntu-artwork and ubuntulooks theme on those images you are doing?
[10:05] <infinity> seb128: Yep.
[10:05] <seb128> rock
[10:05] <infinity> seb128: For better or worse.
[10:05] <pitti> seb128, dholbach: would it be possible to make the new theme just a little less eye-hurting? (i. e. less orange)
[10:05] <dholbach> pitti: no
[10:05] <pitti> :(
[10:05] <dholbach> pitti: it's perfect as it is - we will reject every bug :)
[10:05] <seb128> pitti: come here to London express yourself :)
[10:06] <seb128> pitti: it's much less flashy it was 2 days ago
[10:06] <pitti> OMG, I'm glad that I didn't see that one then
[10:06] <seb128> pitti: what part is an issue for you? wm bar color? Selection color?
[10:06] <pitti> seb128: the design and everything is cool, it's just the bright orange that hurts
[10:07] <pitti> seb128: window bar etc.
[10:07] <Mithrandir> infinity: uh, yes?  For each project, naturally.
[10:07] <Treenaks> pitti: The Dutch will love it ;)
[10:07] <infinity> Mithrandir: Confident there won't be any showstoppers?
[10:08] <Mithrandir> infinity: oh, we might to build them a few more times, true.
[10:08] <infinity> I wonder if this process is geting slower, or I'm getting older and more impatient.
[10:08] <Treenaks> infinity: you just need more bandwidth
[10:09] <Mithrandir> oh, good.  Edubuntu live images no longer oversized.
[10:09] <seb128> pitti: can you make a screenshot?
[10:09] <seb128> pitti: in case I've a local theme different atm
[10:09] <infinity> Hrm, cute.
[10:09] <seb128> pitti: because the window bars are midway between brown and orange here
[10:09] <infinity> Aren't ports CDs meant to publish to a different directory?
[10:10] <infinity> Maybe I confused the poor thing by asking it to build "amd64 i386 powerpc sparc"
[10:10] <fabbione> infinity: yes they are published in ports/
[10:11] <infinity> fabbione: Well, not today, apparently. :)
[10:11] <pitti> seb128: http://tmp.vuntz.net/Screenshot-Ubuntu%20Servers:%20%23ubuntu-desktop-1.png
[10:11] <infinity> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20060310/
[10:11] <pitti> seb128: it's mainly the bright orange icons and the orange window bar that make my eyes bleed
[10:11] <seb128> pitti: the green selection you have, not the theme
[10:11] <fabbione> infinity: meh no dude.. move it.. otherwise you screw mirrors
[10:11] <fabbione> infinity: and my rsync
[10:11] <pitti> seb128: green selection?
[10:12] <seb128> pitti: need to restart the apps after installing it
[10:12] <seb128> pitti: xchat channel selection
[10:12] <infinity> fabbione: Mirrors don't mirror cdimage, unless they're insane...
[10:12] <seb128> the green you have on #ubuntu-deskop
[10:12] <seb128> desktop
[10:12] <fabbione> <- i am insane
[10:12] <pitti> seb128: oh, that's not my desktop, but vuntz'
[10:12] <fabbione> <- me man with 2T of disk to fill somehow
[10:13] <pitti> seb128: I make one for you, minute
[10:13] <seb128> pitti: oh, right ... so is the menus selection color fine or you?
[10:15] <pitti> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/Screenshot.jpg
[10:16] <seb128> pitti: right, correct new theme for you. So you find the "light" orange (the one from icons, etc) too flashy?
[10:16] <pitti> seb128: selections (in menu etc.) look a bit better, the active window in the desktop switcher in the panel is horrible, icons and window bars hurt
[10:16] <seb128> k, noted
[10:16] <pitti> seb128: everything is way too intense for my taste
[10:16] <irvin> i agree with pitti 
[10:16] <pitti> seb128: well, it's easy enough to change for me (I prefer smokey blue), it's just some feedback in case you guys collec tit
[10:17] <pitti> collect it *cough*
[10:17] <seb128> pitti: yeah, feedback is welcome
[10:17] <seb128> pitti: and what do you think about the colored parts used on scrollbar?
[10:18] <Treenaks> seb128: they're nice!; also the 'progress bar' dividers look cool
[10:18] <seb128> :)
[10:19] <pitti> seb128: color: too bright; they look cool, but I don't know what they are good for
[10:19] <Treenaks> pitti: flashy l33tness, of course
[10:19] <pitti> seb128: maybe you can convince Mark to exchange orange for light brownish everywhere?
[10:19] <Treenaks> pitti: imagine this on MovieOS^WXGL
[10:19] <seb128> pitti: I doubt it
[10:19] <seb128> pitti: would mean to redo all the icons and everything
[10:19] <seb128> pitti: and we are past UI freeze now
[10:20] <pitti> hmkay
[10:20] <Treenaks> seb128: isn't there a 'brown' in the icon palette?
[10:20] <pitti> I'm just afraid of the reviews we'll get :/
[10:20] <Treenaks> pitti: Current reviews: "It works OK, but it's brown"
[10:21] <Treenaks> pitti: Future reviews: "It works OK, but my eyes burned at the sight of orange"
[10:21] <Treenaks> ?
[10:21] <dholbach> i like it much better
[10:21] <seb128> pitti: I find it shiny, better that the color we had before
[10:21] <pitti> seb128: hm, it hurted me after two minutes, I can't imagine seeing it for 12 hours a day, but that might be just me
[10:23] <infinity> Unpacking ia32-libs-kde (from .../ia32-libs-kde_3_amd64.deb) ...
[10:23] <infinity> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/ia32-libs-kde_3_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[10:23] <infinity>  trying to overwrite `/etc/qt3/qtrc', which is also in package libqt3-mt
[10:23] <infinity> ^--- Whose fault is that one?
[10:24] <jordi> mvo: hey room mate!
[10:24] <seb128> pitti: I'm working with it for 2 days, I like it
[10:24] <seb128> pitti: but let's wait user feedback
[10:25] <pitti> yes, let's :)
[10:25] <seb128> pitti: mightbe you should play with your screen settings to make it better ;)
[10:26] <Mithrandir> infinity: whoever thought having conffiles in libs was a good idea.
[10:28] <infinity> fabbione: Your sparc image now lives in ports.  booboo undone.  <cough>
[10:29] <fabbione> infinity: ahha thanks .)
[10:29] <Mithrandir> Riddell_: around?
[10:29] <infinity> Okay, can I get everyone to test their little hearts out on this:
[10:29] <infinity> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20060310/
[10:29] <Lathiat> most certainly can
[10:29] <infinity> ^--- Flight-5 candidate 1 (and maybe the last, if we're lucky)
[10:30] <Lathiat> whats highest priority to test?
[10:30] <Lathiat> takes me an ahour and a half to get each iso down
[10:30] <Lathiat> ;p
[10:30] <Lathiat> i cando i386, amd64
[10:30] <Riddell_> Mithrandir: hi
[10:30] <infinity> Lathiat: Pick what you think no one else has. :)
[10:30] <infinity> Lathiat: amd64, perhaps.
[10:30] <Mithrandir> Riddell_: see the dpkg error from infinity above.  
[10:30] <Treenaks> hm.. I need to buy new CD-Rs
[10:30] <Lathiat> infinity: also, kubuntu?
[10:31] <Mithrandir> Riddell_: also, /etc/qt3/qtrc has: libraryPath=/usr/lib/kde3/plugins/
[10:31] <infinity> Riddell_: You get no Flight until you fix that. :)
[10:31] <Riddell_> Mithrandir: am building a chroot on my amd64 now
[10:31] <infinity> Lathiat: No kubuntu yet.
[10:31] <Mithrandir> Riddell_: you can work around it like it's done for pango, but you'll run into c++ symbol mangling madness, I suspect.
[10:33] <pitti> Mithrandir, infinity: I guess it's not an ideal time for uploading new language-support-* packages then?
[10:34] <pitti> (they aren't on the CDs)
[10:34] <infinity> pitti: Some are in live...
[10:34] <seb128> can I upload new GTK? :)
[10:34] <infinity> seb128: You may die now. :)
[10:34] <pitti> infinity: urgh? at most en, I'd asssume
[10:34] <Mithrandir> seb128: do you like being spanked? :-)
[10:34] <infinity> pitti: I tihnk just en, but I'm not positive.  Check the seeds. :)
[10:34] <seb128> infinity: hum, ok ok, I back off for now :p
[10:34] <Mithrandir> pitti: please hold them off, they might not be on the CDs, but I would like to not have changes in the archive today unless we need them for flight.
[10:34] <pitti> seb128: only with an API break, please
[10:35] <mvo> jordi: hello! 
[10:35] <pitti> Mithrandir: yes, that's fine for me
[10:35] <seb128> pitti: yeah, soname change to get some fun
[10:35] <Mithrandir> ogra: you might want to whip together your edubuntu testers to do install tests.
[10:35] <infinity> Mithrandir: Which will have to wait for a for-project edubuntu build. :)
[10:36] <infinity> Mithrandir: Was next on my list after the livecd build finishes up.
[10:36] <Mithrandir> infinity: well, he needs to whip them together before he can herd them
[10:36] <infinity> Mithrandir: <grin>
[10:36] <infinity> Catnip.
[10:43] <olemke> seb128, how about shipping the old human theme under a different name to give people a chance to switch back to the old look?
[10:43] <seb128> olemke: can be done
[10:43] <olemke> seb128, that would be really nice :-)
[10:43] <mjr> as for the name, "badger" seems the obvious choice...
[10:45] <jdub> seb128: (i've been thinking of shipping separate release packages for u-a, such as ubuntu-artwork-dapper, ubuntu-artwork-breezy, etc)
[10:45] <infinity> LiveCD Flight-5 candidates are up here, again, testing required:
[10:45] <infinity> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20060310/
[10:45] <seb128> infinity: means I can upload again?
[10:45] <infinity> seb128: No. :)
[10:45] <Mithrandir> seb128: no.  Wait until we have released.
[10:45] <Mithrandir> seb128: we might need to rebuild the images.
[10:46] <Mithrandir> and if so, it'd be bad if we had to chase down new issues.
[10:46] <seb128> grumpf
[10:46] <infinity> dholbach: I suck at getting people excited, can you make sure everyone in the channel downloads and tests at least one livecd/installer image for me? :)
[10:46] <seb128> Mithrandir: if I do an upload that new theme tweaking
[10:46] <seb128> s/that/that's
[10:47] <mdke> if someone with main access has a few minutes to fix an easy bug on xmms, could they have a look at the patch attached to bug #30694, and if appropriate, apply/upload? thanks
[10:47] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30694 in xmms "unfriendly menu entry for XMMS" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30694
[10:47] <Mithrandir> mdke: no, they may not upload until flight-5 is out.
[10:48] <Mithrandir> seb128: which package?
[10:48] <mdke> Mithrandir, ok thanks. After that then maybe?
[10:48] <Mithrandir> mdke: after is fine with me.
[10:48] <mdke> not that xmms goes on the cd
[10:48] <infinity> I'm fine with uploads that don't hit the CD, but I'm also outside of my core hours and working from the kindness of my heart, so it's Mithrandir's show. :)
[10:49] <seb128> Mithrandir: ubuntu-artwork and ubuntulooks
[10:50] <seb128> I'm fine with waiting an hour but we will want to play with that and get feedback for the UI sprint today
[10:50] <seb128> so if the CD testing takes the day that's not going to be cool
[10:50] <Mithrandir> seb128: I would really, really prefer if you put it on http somewhere and just pointed people to the deb.
[10:51] <Mithrandir> seb128: it'll _hopefully_ just take a couple of hours, but it might very well take the day.
[10:51] <seb128> grumpf
[10:51] <seb128> I'm fine either way, but if Mark wants us to upload I'll upload
[10:52] <seb128> I'll ping you before anyway
[10:52] <dholbach> infinity: i'll do an announcement later on - as I can't test the images myself
[10:52] <Mithrandir> seb128: thanks.  It doesn't look scary, I'm just being very conservative.
[10:53] <seb128> Mithrandir: yeah I understand, but I'm pretty confident it doesn't break anything since it's just some theme tweaking
[10:53] <infinity> dholbach: I just meant whip up some enthusiasm in here. :)
[10:54] <infinity> dholbach: An announcement email may be too late, we could have Flight-5 released before we've asked people to test the candidate daily. :)
[10:55] <dholbach> arg hm
[10:56] <Mithrandir> seb128: how do I get my "places" thingy in nautilus to appear again?  It seems to have disappeared on one of my machines
[10:57] <seb128> Mithrandir: from the desktop?
[10:57] <Mithrandir> seb128: yes, when opening a folder.
[10:57] <seb128> Mithrandir: what do you call places? bookmarks? from the panel? nautilus?
[10:58] <Mithrandir> seb128: the list of places which correspond to what I have in my "Places" menu.
[10:58] <seb128> the places menu has different things
[10:59] <Mithrandir> it has ~, Desktop, "File System" and my sftp/webdav mounts
[10:59] <seb128> volumes listed by gnome-vfs (hal), bookmarks from ~/.gtk-bookmarks, hardcoded stuff
[11:00] <Treenaks> seb128: Pressing Ctrl+F in Nautilus brings up a different 'Find file' dialog than the one in the 'Location' menu (at the top menu bar)
[11:00] <crimsun> do you mean F9?
[11:00] <crimsun> (in nautilus)
[11:00] <crimsun> then choose Places from the drop-down menu
[11:01] <crimsun> anything customised looks like it'd be in ~/.gtk-bookmarks
[11:02] <Mithrandir> seb128: I'd like to go from http://err.no/tmp/desktop-2.png to http://err.no/tmp/desktop-1.png
[11:03] <seb128> Mithrandir: oh, you want to switch from spatial to browser
[11:03] <seb128> Mithrandir: Edit menu, preferences, behaviour, always open in a browser window
[11:04] <Mithrandir> seb128: thanks.
[11:05] <seb128> np
[11:22] <jdub> fabbione: you rock :-)
[11:22] <fabbione> jdub: go for the fridge man :)
[11:22] <jdub> fabbione: hell yeah!
[11:22] <fabbione> jdub: http://www.sun.com/servers/coolthreads/t2000/ <- box..
[11:23] <fabbione> jdub: http://www.sun.com/processors/UltraSPARC-T1/ <- CPU
[11:23] <tepsipakki> when is the next developer-meeting held, and where?
[11:23] <tepsipakki> if known
[11:24] <Treenaks> or user-meeting
[11:24] <Treenaks> or ANY ubuntu-meeting ;)
[11:24] <tepsipakki> Treenaks: feeling lonely?-)
[11:27] <Treenaks> tepsipakki: yeah :)
[11:30] <jono> hey all
[11:30] <jono> so is the UI freeze sticking? is anything going to change?
[11:31] <jono> heya GmanPUB, hows the teeth ?
[11:32] <GmanPUB> solid.
[11:32] <jono> :)
[11:32] <jono> :)
[11:33] <jono> so yeah, can anyone let me know if the UI freezy is staying or are icons stilll being ponced around with ?
[11:36] <infinity> Guys, we need as much testing as possible of the images at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20060310/ and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20060310/ so they can (hopefully) be released as Flight-5.
[11:37] <jono> infinity, is that the current image?
[11:37] <Treenaks> infinity: is that also /current now?
[11:38] <infinity> Treenaks / jono: Yes.
[11:40] <jono> testing it now
[11:41] <jono> does anyone know if all UI is set now? I need to take screenshots today?
[11:41] <Mithrandir> jono: I think seb wanted to do some minor theme tweaks.
[11:41] <JaneW> jono: the UI sprint is still happening... so there may be minor changes till the end of today
[11:41] <seb128> I've the package ready to upload
[11:41] <seb128> but uploads are blocked for flight 5 
[11:42] <jono> ok, so its best to leave screenshotting until maybe tomorrow
[11:42] <Mithrandir> jono: yes, or get the package off seb and install it.
[11:42] <jono> I will wait for seb to do his thang :)
[11:42] <JaneW> jono: or get the package from seb and kiss him? ;)
[11:42] <seb128> jono: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks_0.9.2-1_i386.deb
[11:43] <jono> JaneW, no thanks :)
[11:43] <Mithrandir> jono: he's very cute, though
[11:43] <jono> well, my mum thinks my dad is cute, but I don't kiss him all that much either :P
[11:43] <seb128> JaneW: heh, without the kissing is fine too
[11:43] <JaneW> touche!
[11:44] <jono> seb128, so if I just install that package is that gonna be the likely final look of Dapper?
[11:44] <seb128> jono: I can't promise they don't change something else today
[11:44] <jono> no worries
[11:44] <jono> I will wait till tomorrow :)
[11:44] <seb128> would be better to wait a few hours to get over UI sprint 
[11:44] <seb128> k
[11:44] <jono> when are the daily ISOs generated ?
[11:45] <jono> cheers seb128 :)
[11:45] <infinity> These ones?  About an hour ago.
[11:45] <jono> I mean the first daily with the final UI tweaks included
[11:45] <Mithrandir> we're still supposed to have "this is not the final artwork" thingy?
[11:46] <jono> Mithrandir, heh
[11:46] <Mithrandir> jono: tomorrow at about 9-10 UTC they should be around.
[11:46] <jono> Mithrandir, cool :)
[11:46] <infinity> jono: Dailies are normally generated at ~07:30 UTC (so, published an hour or so after that)
[11:46] <JaneW> jono: sorry about your saturday...
[11:46] <mdke> jono, also strings aren't frozen til next thursday, so words in the ui might change, I think
[11:47] <Mithrandir> haha, mdzzzz.ogg is example-content. :-)
[11:47] <jono> JaneW, no worries, its crunch time for the book
[11:47] <JaneW> Mithrandir: really? Excellent!
[11:47] <JaneW> Mithrandir: no wait - I was in that!
[11:47] <Mithrandir> JaneW: yes, you'll be on a MILLION CDs.
[11:47] <jono> mdke, is that just ubuntu specific stuff - I assume applications (gaim, OOo, Firefox etc) are likely to not include string changes?
[11:47] <JaneW> ARGH!
[11:47] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: you could add sabdfls moviegotchi ('Hi, I'm this geek from South Africa, can you tell me more about this Ubuntu thing?')
[11:48] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: I'm just testing the i386 live cd.  Seems to work for me.
[11:48] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: cool :)
[11:48] <Mithrandir> so, now it's the amd64 live cd.
[11:49] <infinity> Paranoia took over, I guess.
[11:49] <Kamion> jono: espresso UI still isn't final unfortunately, although it's much closer than it was
[11:50] <Kamion> in particular there will be images down the left-hand side of each page, probably
[11:51] <jono> cool
[11:51] <jono> Kamion, no worries
[11:51] <jono> I will hold off on shots as long as I can :)
[11:54] <mdke> jono, menu entries, etc
[11:55] <jono> mdke, cool, so when the theme has settled down, I can probably take screens of applications they are unlikely to change, right?
[11:55] <mdke> jono, i would have thought so, they are unlikely to be serious changes
[11:56] <jono> cool, thanks :)
[12:00] <Mithrandir> what's Jani Monoses IRC nick?
[12:01] <simira> Janimo, iirc
[12:01] <Mithrandir> grr, he's not on IRC and not respecting the flight-5 freeze.
[12:01] <Mithrandir> I'll mail him
[12:03] <infinity> Probably because his stuff won't land on our CDs.
[12:03] <Mithrandir> or because he's not here.
[12:04] <jono> ugh, anyone got horrible transparent menus in OOo
[12:05] <Mithrandir> starting gimp and ooo on the live cd takes a little while..
[12:06] <jono> hey sabdfl
[12:06] <sabdfl> howdy
[12:07] <Seveas> pitti, ping
[12:07] <pitti> Hi Seveas 
[12:08] <Seveas> are you working on the gnupg vulnerability?
[12:08] <pitti> 'the'?
[12:08] <pitti> the one fixed in 1.4.2.2?
[12:08] <Seveas> yes
[12:08] <pitti> on my radar, will do ASAP
[12:09] <Mithrandir> jono: not transparent on the amd64 live cd, at least
[12:09] <Seveas> if ASAP is a few hours/days away I see a great opportunity for me to contribute, is it ok if I try to make preliminary patches for breezy and earlier?
[12:10] <pitti> Seveas: oh, of course :) that would rock
[12:10] <infinity> Mithrandir: If you're keeping a tally sheet, PPC LiveCD is good on an iBook over here.
[12:10] <Seveas> I assume dapper will get a UVF exception and just have the correvt version ;)
[12:10] <jono> Mithrandir, odd
[12:11] <Mithrandir> infinity: thanks.
[12:11] <pitti> Seveas: if the only change is that bug fix, very likely
[12:12] <Mithrandir> Riddell: what's the state of ia32-libs-kde fixage?
[12:15] <Mithrandir> anybody with a powerpc around who could test an install of the flight 5 candidate?
[12:16] <Riddell> Mithrandir: I just uploaded a fix, delete /etc/qt3 in the install rule
[12:16] <minghua> pitti: Amaranth said here earlier that the diff between 1.4.2.1 and 1.4.2.2 is 101k (I haven't tried to confirm myself though)
[12:16] <pitti> ouch
[12:16] <Mithrandir> Riddell: thanks.
[12:16] <Mithrandir> Riddell: any chance you could test or find testers for kubuntu cds?
[12:17] <Mithrandir> (once they're built)
[12:19] <Kamion> Mithrandir: janimo's stuff is in universe, so whatever
[12:19] <infinity_live> Alright, WAY too late in the process to fix this now, but...
[12:19] <infinity_live> Why do we have both nm-applet and the GNOME network thingee in the default live profile?
[12:20] <Mithrandir> infinity: that should probably be fixed, yes.  Minor detail, really.
[12:20] <infinity_live> Oh, because it's in the default laptop profile, period, and we don't tweak it on live.
[12:20] <infinity_live> Mithrandir: Are you making a note of stuff like this to polish later? :)
[12:20] <Riddell> Mithrandir: I can't really, don't have the bandwidth here even for an rsync and I doubt we'll fine people to test all the CDs
[12:21] <Mithrandir> Riddell: do you want to release kubuntu flight-5 later or not at all, or?
[12:21] <infinity_live> Mithrandir: Anyhow, everything is working perfectly on my Thinkpad.  Like a dream.
[12:21] <Riddell> Mithrandir: yeah, next week I think
[12:22] <Mithrandir> Riddell: ok; your call.
[12:22] <Mithrandir> infinity_live: yes, I'm taking notes.
[12:22] <Riddell> that means we'll get the UI changes in too
[12:22] <Mithrandir> infinity_live: the edubuntu images should be built now, shouldn't they?
[12:23] <Riddell> so I'm happy for a separate kubuntu flight 5
[12:23] <Pygi> Mithrandir: does Edubuntu images need testing as well?
[12:23] <infinity_live> Mithrandir: Yes, edubuntu is all ready for testing.
[12:23] <Mithrandir> Pygi: yes.  I'm trying to find out if they're built yet or not.
[12:23] <infinity_live> Mithrandir: live and install.
[12:23] <Mithrandir> infinity_live: excellent.
[12:24] <Mithrandir> Pygi: yes, as infinity_live says.  Live and install.  Please do tell me about what arches you test and whether you're successful or not.
[12:25] <Pygi> Mithrandir: well, i386...k, I'll do the testing
[12:25] <Mithrandir> Pygi: excellent, thanks.
[12:26] <Pygi> Mithrandir: nevertheless, I already had it installed on like 25 computers, and it worked fairly good
[12:26] <Kamion> to clarify Mithrandir's request above, I would very much like somebody to test Espresso on powerpc now
[12:26] <Kamion> it *should* now get the yaboot configuration right, but I've been unable to test it myself due to hardware problems
[12:26] <Mithrandir> Pygi: please do test both the live installer and the old installer if you have the time.
[12:26] <Pygi> I tried the old one...It worked...
[12:26] <Pygi> only the live installer more to test..
[12:27] <Mithrandir> Pygi: did you test it with the images from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20060310/ ?
[12:27] <Pygi> Mithrandir: nop...
[12:28] <Pygi> Mithrandir: Will do tho ...
[12:28] <Mithrandir> Pygi: thanks.
[12:28] <olemke> Mithrandir, ubuntu install on i386 worked fine, except that it still created 7 floppy drives although I don't have a single one
[12:28] <Kamion> olemke: known udev bug
[12:28] <Mithrandir> olemke: ok, that's not a new bug and not a critical bug, but I'll note it anyway.  Thanks a lot for testing.
[12:28] <olemke> Mithrandir, np
[12:29] <Kamion> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/udev/+bug/27926
[12:29] <Ubugtu> malone bug 27926 in udev "fstab  contains 8 floppy drives but PC does not have any" [Minor,Confirmed]  
[12:29] <olemke> Kamion, ah ok, i thought it was already fixed
[12:29] <Kamion> the devfs-paths compatibility helper is getting a little bit ... enthusiastic
[12:29] <Kamion> olemke: nope, diagnosed somewhat but not fixed
[12:29] <Kamion> I may have to start trying to think up workarounds soon
[12:32] <infinity_live> Kamion: I don't have permission to install anything on the iBook here, unfortunately...
[12:32] <infinity_live> Kamion: Though, speaking of the iBook in question, do we have the utility to extract Broadcom firmware on the livecd?
[12:33] <Kamion> no, not sure it's even packaged
[12:33] <Kamion> although I believe there are packages in Debian contrib or something - we should look
[12:34] <Kamion> damnit, gotta fix madison-lite's regex search mode
[12:34] <Kamion> bcm43xx-fwcutter
[12:35] <infinity_live> Well, doesn't do me much good with no way to get it on the laptop. :)
[12:35] <Kamion> it's an installer package in fact
[12:35] <infinity_live> But we should make a note to get that on the CD, perhaps.
[12:35] <infinity_live> Oh, it's nonfree?
[12:36] <Kamion> the linksys firmware is available in a wgettable location so it grabs that
[12:36] <Mithrandir> infinity_live: USB stick? :-)
[12:36] <infinity_live> Ahh, can't it also cut firmware from MacOS, though?
[12:36] <infinity_live> (which would be helpful in my case)
[12:36] <Kamion> infinity_live: fwcutter itself isn't, but the fact that it's grabbing non-free stuff from the web pushes the package into contrib
[12:36] <Kamion> infinity_live: yes
[12:39] <infinity_live> Mithrandir: Good luck testing.
[12:39] <Kamion> if we just make the question default to false, should be fine to suck into our archive
[12:39] <Mithrandir> infinity: thanks, enjoy your evening.
[12:39] <Kamion> I think
[12:45] <seb128> Kamion, Mithrandir, infinity, whoever does a note for flight5: openoffice menus are broken (transparents) with current theme, that's known and already fixed
[12:46] <seb128> if you could mention it so we don't get a zillion of bug on it
[12:46] <Kamion> not me, delegation ;-)
[12:46] <Kamion> perhaps somebody could put that on wiki/DapperFlight5
[12:47] <Mithrandir> seb128: I'll note it.
[12:47] <seb128> Mithrandir: thank you
[12:47] <Mithrandir> jono: ^^^, btw
[12:49] <jono> Mithrandir, :)
[12:50] <infinity> seb128: Can you upload for that (and double-check the theme you're uploading doesn't break in new ways), so that if we have to redo the images for some other reason, we get that fix for free?
[12:50] <infinity> Mithrandir: Assuming you're okay with that scenario.
[12:51] <Mithrandir> infinity: ok.
[12:52] <infinity> seb128: I'm sure you're aware of this, due to Mark running Tbird religiously, but the new theme kinda makes Thunderbird... Uhm.. Ugly... No better description than that, really. :)
[12:52] <infinity> seb128: The 3D column header buttons look kinda sketchy, and the separator between the message list and preview window is an off colour, etc.
[12:53] <seb128> infinity: didn't hear anything about that yet
[12:53] <infinity> seb128: AND, this has resurrected the "progress bars draw outside the lines" bug that we previously had.
[12:53] <infinity> (Just noticed that)
[12:54] <Mithrandir> nautilus' sftp stuff needs a go-faster mode.
[12:54] <seb128> infinity: no surprise, it's using cairo again
[12:54] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: A 'turbo boost' button!
[12:54] <infinity> seb128: Right, well, a fix would be nice. :)
[12:55] <seb128> infinity: do you still have the bug number handy?
[12:55] <seb128> infinity: or a testcase or something
[12:55] <infinity> Testcase is "do anything with thunderbird that involves a progress bar"
[12:55] <seb128> infinity: clearlooks guys are to UI sprint to I can show them
[12:55] <infinity> (So, send mail, check a mailbox, etc)
[12:55] <seb128> hum, k
[12:56] <seb128> I would have it handy at home
[12:56] <seb128> but laptop doesn't make things easy :/
[12:57] <infinity> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gtk2-engines/+bug/31480
[12:57] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31480 in gtk2-engines "progress bar colours waay outside the lines" [Minor,Confirmed]  
[12:58] <janimo> Mithrandir: does the restriction in topic apply to universe uploads as well?
[12:58] <Mithrandir> janimo: yes, that is, I'd like to be very conservative this time around.
[12:58] <janimo> ok
[12:59] <Mithrandir> it should possibly have gone out on u-d-a too, since not everybody is on irc too much
[12:59] <Mithrandir> infinity: it's only for the "I don't know how much time this will take" progress bars, though.
[01:00] <infinity> Mithrandir: Once the ia32-libs-kde build and installs, you should be able to trigger a kubuntu livefs build on king (amd64) again, then do a full CD set for kubuntu.
[01:00] <Mithrandir> infinity: nobody around who can test it properly, though.
[01:00] <infinity> Mithrandir: Yeah, it's just the bouncing bars, I think seb and I discussed that the last time we talked about the bug. :)
[01:00] <Mithrandir> I can't test ppc and I might not have time for kubuntu in addition to ubuntu.
[01:00] <infinity> Mithrandir: True, but if you call 20030310 the candidate anyway, and make Riddell and Co test it over the next day or two.. :)
[01:02] <Riddell> infinity: I'm not at home to test stuff, I'd rather just do it early next week
[01:03] <infinity> Riddell: Fair enough.
[01:05] <Kamion> Mithrandir: universe and multiverse uploads haven't caused me problems in the past, so I think we can lift the restriction on those guys
[01:05] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok.
[01:05] <Mithrandir> janimo: fire away, then as long as it goes to universe.
[01:06] <janimo> Mithrandir: ok, I have no uploads pending but wanted to be aware just in case
[01:06] <infinity> seb128: Oh, another bug I'll have to bug you about later involves NetworkManager's interaction with this theme...
[01:06] <Mithrandir> janimo: it's the first flight where I'm pretending to be Colin, so I'm extra careful.
[01:06] <janimo> Mithrandir: undesrtood. good luck :)
[01:07] <Mithrandir> janimo: speaking of, is xubuntu going to have flight-5 too?
[01:07] <seb128> infinity: the look of the bars for the signal?
[01:07] <Mithrandir> or, you're not on cdimage yet.
[01:07] <infinity> seb128: (The NM icon was perfectly flat/transparent with the old theme, but with both this one and the one I previous had progress bar issues with, NM's icon doesn't quite live happily in the notification area)
[01:07] <janimo> Mithrandir: not until the packages are in main which is blocked according to Colin
[01:07] <infinity> seb128: The icon seems a bit "raised" or drop-shadowed, but only with these cairo-enabled themes, not with the old-skool themes.
[01:08] <seb128> infinity: I would say it's a nm-applet bug
[01:08] <infinity> seb128: Conceivably, though odd that it was fine a day ago. :)
[01:08] <Mithrandir> janimo: ok
[01:08] <seb128> infinity: that's because the panel has the same color has the icon background?
[01:09] <infinity> seb128: It seems more than just a colour issue, since I see a paticularly dark line at the bottom of the icon.
[01:09] <infinity> seb128: But I'm also passing out and in need of sleep, so I'll whine about this one (with blown up screenshots and arrows and charts) later.
[01:09] <seb128> k, I'll have a look today if there is time for it
[01:11] <janimo> seb128: according to Manu on u-devel, the logout dialog asks gdm if suspend is supported
[01:11] <janimo> is that final for dapper?
[01:11] <seb128> exact
[01:11] <seb128> dunno yet
[01:11] <pitti> infinity, Kamion: FYI, rookery:~pitti/bin/checkrdepends is a script that checks for reverse build/binary dependencies for all arches (melanie -n -R replacement)
[01:11] <seb128> why?
[01:11] <janimo> seb128: I use hal for this in xfce logout too
[01:11] <janimo> and it's weird to suspend through hal
[01:11] <seb128> "too"?
[01:11] <seb128> we use gdm
[01:12] <janimo> but ask about the capabiliti behind its' back
[01:12] <janimo> seb128: aha
[01:12] <seb128> ??
[01:12] <seb128> what is funny?
[01:12] <janimo> I thoigh it's through g-p-m
[01:12] <seb128> no
[01:12] <janimo> nothing I said aha not haha
[01:12] <seb128> you just ask if it uses gdm
[01:12] <seb128> oh, k
[01:13] <doko> pitti: please reference myspell-sw myspell-th in the language packs
[01:13] <janimo> so the logout dialog does not use gpm_can_suspend()?
[01:13] <janimo> which in turn asks hal
[01:13] <Kamion> pitti: cool, thanks!
[01:13] <pitti> doko: I'm not supposed to upload anything right now, I'll queue it
[01:14] <doko> pitti: that's what I meant
[01:14] <pitti> Kamion: be warned, it's really slow and hideous (wget/grep-dctrl shell)
[01:14] <pitti> Kamion: but it's good enough on rookery for me
[01:14] <seb128> janimo: no, it uses gdm like for breezy, hoary, etc
[01:14] <janimo> seb128: ah, ok.I thought that with g-p-m in all that is offered is used
[01:15] <seb128> EPARSE
[01:15] <seb128> anyway we might switch
[01:15] <janimo> al that is offered: query/action for suspend methods through hal
[01:15] <seb128> I'll have to discuss it with Kinnison
[01:15] <janimo> which wraps pmi in ourt case but it's cleaner
[01:15] <janimo> or pitti who is here :)
[01:16] <janimo> there's a mention of pmi in hal changelog but no code that I found
[01:16] <infinity> pitti: The wget can be circumvented on drescher, since we're on, y'know, drescher. :)
[01:16] <pitti> infinity: sure, feel free to hack it however you like :)
[01:17] <pitti> infinity: but I need the wget on rookery
[01:17] <Lathiat> infinity: any live or kubuntus?
[01:17] <infinity> Lathiat: ubuntu-live has been ready for ages.
[01:17] <pitti> infinity: it told me that the gnutls transition is still a loong way to go on the SCCs
[01:17] <Lathiat> latest build i assume?
[01:17] <infinity> Lathiat: Riddell has opted to hold off on Kubuntu until early next week, since he can't really test it right now.
[01:17] <Lathiat> infinity: ok, cheers
[01:17] <infinity> Lathiat: Yes, current for daily-live please.
[01:18] <Kamion> pitti: fine by me
[01:18] <infinity> pitti: How long is long (not counting hppa, please)
[01:18] <Kamion> infinity: (it'll also be fast on drescher)
[01:18] <Mithrandir> we _really_ need somebody to test installation on ppc, though
[01:18] <infinity> Kamion: You going to pop it in lp_archive's ~/bin?
[01:19] <infinity> Mithrandir: Wish I could. :/
[01:19] <Kamion> infinity: done ... except whoops, no grep-dctrl on drescher
[01:19] <infinity> pitti: Do you have your laptop and a spare partition handy to do PPC install testing?  Or are you sitting behind a skinny pipe right now?
[01:19] <pitti> infinity: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/gnutls11.txt
[01:20] <Mithrandir> infinity: I know you can't.  That won't stop me from whining until somebody tests, though.
[01:20] <pitti> infinity: hppa is the worst, right, but ia64 doesn't look much better; otherwise it's mainly evolutino
[01:20] <infinity> Mithrandir: <grin>
[01:20] <pitti> infinity: yes, I can test ppc
[01:20] <infinity> pitti: Well, I said "not hppa" because there's nothing I can about it until we light up the hppa buildds in the DC.
[01:20] <Mithrandir> ok, whoever told me of the gksudo-on-the-live-cd bug.  I can reproduce it, gksudo doesn't work unless sudo has run first.
[01:20] <infinity> pitti: I can do something about ia64 and sparc. :)
[01:20] <pitti> infinity: right
[01:21] <Kamion> Mithrandir: heh, do we need to quickly make espresso-gtkui.desktop use sudo instead?
[01:21] <Kamion> because otherwise the icon won't work ...
[01:21] <Mithrandir> Kamion: we need to fix it somehow, at least, yes.
[01:21] <infinity> pitti: Yeah, I should be able to sort all of the non-hppa stuff first thing next week.
[01:21] <Kamion> I'll do that quickly then
[01:21] <pitti> any idea why? gksudo gedit worked fine for me, although I got a nasty warning
[01:22] <Mithrandir> pitti: on the live cd?
[01:22] <Mithrandir> pitti: also, what kind of warning?
[01:22] <infinity> pitti: If hppa continues to drag, we may have to intentionally break it for a while for the sake of the other arches. :/
[01:22] <pitti> Mithrandir: yes
[01:22] <pitti> Mithrandir: something like 'cannot retrieve authentication info'
[01:22] <Mithrandir> pitti: uh, that's crack.
[01:22] <pitti> Mithrandir: but it works nevertheless usually, just not for espresso
[01:22] <Kamion> my guess is that it's due to the .sudo_as_admin_successful thing
[01:22] <Kamion> mvo says gksudo is pretty fragile
[01:23] <pitti> oh, does gksudo check for that file?
[01:23] <Kamion> it parses the output of sudo, so the extra text might well have broken it
[01:23] <Mithrandir> there's no extra text output?
[01:23] <pitti> Kamion: sudo doesn't output anything different
[01:23] <Mithrandir> that's bash
[01:23] <Kamion> oh
[01:23] <Kamion> don't believe it checks for that file, but dunno
[01:23] <Kamion> can somebody make sure a bug report is filed?
[01:23] <Kamion> (mvo asks)
[01:24] <mvo> and please subscribe me as well (if I'm not default subscriber already)?
[01:24] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I need to test this a tiny bit more before we reroll cds.
[01:24] <pitti> I will once I'm in a live system again
[01:25] <infinity> seb128: Still working on that ubuntulooks/ubuntu-artwork update?
[01:25] <Kamion> sudo will work in a .desktop file on the live CD, right? it has passwordless sudo - it won't mind running without a tty?
[01:25] <seb128> infinity: was about to upload, is that still ok?
[01:25] <infinity> seb128: Now's your big chance to get it in, there's talk of respinning CDs.
[01:25] <infinity> seb128: Yes, upload. :)
[01:26] <Mithrandir> Kamion: that'll work, yes.
[01:26] <Mithrandir> Kamion: please change espresso.desktop, then. :-(
[01:27] <Kamion> doing
[01:27] <infinity> Mithrandir: You're down with the process to spin livefs builds and image builds and jazz?
[01:27] <Mithrandir> infinity: yes.
[01:27] <Mithrandir> infinity: I've done live cds, but not regular cds before.
[01:27] <Mithrandir> oh well, I get to test the i386 regular cd while we wait, then.
[01:27] <seb128> infinity: done
[01:27] <infinity> Mithrandir: Rock.  I'll leave you alone then, may you develop an Irish accent by the end of the day.
[01:28] <Kamion> it's easy, 'for-project ubuntu cron.daily' and 'for-project ubuntu cron.daily-live'. no hassle
[01:28] <Mithrandir> infinity: thanks.  Now get some sleep and have a good weekend.
[01:28] <infinity> Will try, on both counts.
[01:28] <infinity> PENGUINS!
[01:28] <Mithrandir> penguins++
[01:28] <Mithrandir> pitti: if you could test the regular installer for ppc in the meantime, I'd be happy
[01:29] <pitti> Mithrandir: yes, I will
[01:29] <Mithrandir> pitti: thanks a lot.
[01:29] <pitti> Mithrandir: download is nearly complete, then I'll start the install
[01:30] <pitti> Mithrandir: shall I test any amd64 images?
[01:31] <Mithrandir> pitti: feel free, though they seem to work for me so I'm not very fussed about those.
[01:32] <pitti> ok, if they have already been tested, good
[01:33] <Mithrandir> if you feel like doing some mindless tasks, excellent, I have only tested them on one machine here, but I can't imagine that much being broken on them..
[01:33] <pitti> my last test cycle was yesterday, so I agree
[01:33] <infinity> pitti: Testing espresso on PPC live (after curcumventing the gksudo bug) might be nice, so Kamion doesn't have to do two espresso uploads. :)
[01:34] <pitti> infinity: yes, I'd be glad to do that
[01:34] <infinity> circumventing, too.
[01:34] <pitti> I never tried espresso on ppc so far
[01:34] <Kamion> Mithrandir: uploaded and pushed
[01:34] <Kamion> infinity: too late
[01:34] <Kamion> although testing would be good, obviously :)
[01:34] <infinity> Oh, well, s/two uploads/two image release cycles/ :)
[01:34] <pitti> yesterday was pretty catastrophic, but with current packages it should look much better
[01:35] <Kamion> right, the adduser bug being fixed will help a lot, if nothing else
[01:37] <Mithrandir> (what could possibly go wrong?)
[01:41] <seb128> infinity: <Remenic> seb128: ok, firefox/thunderbird bug fixed too now
[01:42] <bSON> hi
[01:48] <bSON> i noticed fat partitions are always put into fstab in a way they can only be accessed by root (no "user")... why?
[01:53] <Kamion> bSON: known bug
[01:54] <bSON> Kamion: "bug" means it wasn't planned that way, i guess
[01:55] <Mithrandir> Kamion: any idea why https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/espresso doesn't show your latest upload?  Source hasn't been published yet?
[01:59] <Kamion> Mithrandir: publisher runs at the top of the hour, and I uploaded around 12:30 - i.e. it's still in accepted
[01:59] <Mithrandir> ok, and that page shows stuff which is published.
[02:00] <Kamion> right
[02:01] <Kamion> I don't think there's a web UI for queue state yet
[02:01] <Mithrandir> ooh, the transparent menus were.. shiny.
[02:01] <Mithrandir> or something
[02:01] <pitti> Kamion: hm, I still get the proxy question without network, I thought this was fixed already?
[02:03] <Kamion> pitti: I thought it was too. choose-mirror bug with installer syslog?
[02:04] <Kamion> JaneW: 90-12 = 78 not 88, right? ;-)
[02:04] <pitti> Kamion: yep, will
[02:04] <JaneW> Kamion: argh
[02:09] <Mithrandir> i386 install worked fine
[02:12] <jordi> seb128: ping
[02:13] <jordi> does anyone know offhand which Ubuntu package provides the "About Ubuntu" menu item?
[02:14] <pitti> Mithrandir: '49710d 6h28m15s remaining' - that'll still take a while ;)
[02:18] <jordi> pitti!
[02:19] <Mithrandir> jordi: I'm running in catalan now.
[02:19] <Mithrandir> just for you
[02:19] <jordi> Mithrandir: really? :)
[02:19] <Mithrandir> yes
[02:19] <Mithrandir> in my test install, but still
[02:19] <jordi> so, Open the system menu and have a look at that menu item
[02:20] <jordi> You'll find a funny feature in Ubuntu Catalan :)
[02:20] <Mithrandir> Ubuntututututu
[02:20] <jordi> alias a "Quant a Ubuntututututututu" string
[02:20] <jordi> so, it's funny but I can't find that string anywhere.
[02:21] <Mithrandir> haha, how excellent.
[02:29] <mdke> jordi, might it be in ubuntu-docs?
[02:29] <mdke> otherwise, gnome-panel, I spose
[02:35] <jordi> mdke: hmm.
[02:35] <jordi> let's try that
[02:36] <jordi> mdke: ubuntudocs does have that string
[02:36] <jordi> but I was supposing it was something in the doc
[02:37] <mdke> I'm not sure
[02:41] <ogra> grumble ... 
[02:41] <ogra> one shouldnt write and iso to CD while rsyncing it ... gah
[02:43] <Treenaks> ogra: rsync needs cdrecord capabilities!
[02:43] <ogra> yeah !
[02:43] <Treenaks> and a mail client!
[02:43] <ogra> i think you even could do that with packetcd :)
[02:44] <irvin> ploum: you there?
[02:44] <ploum> irvin: yes
[02:48] <ogra> Mithrandir, Kamion, i need a new build for edubuntu :(
[02:48] <ogra> (dunno why the last one worked and this one misses ldm :( )
[02:49] <Mithrandir> ogra: live or both?
[02:49] <ogra> Mithrandir, i first need to fix it, only install for now
[02:49] <Mithrandir> ogra: are you going to use espresso too?
[02:49] <ogra> (ltsp breaks the install if ldm is gone ... )
[02:50] <ogra> its there but i'm not sure yet ...
[02:50] <ogra> it will depend on the branding i think ... if we can get all the nifty flash stuff ready etc, i think we'll have it, yes
[02:51] <ogra> but i dont think a ubuntu branded one makes sense ... not sure
[02:51] <ogra> so how do i get ldm on the CD quickly now ... 
[02:53] <Mithrandir> pitti: did the ppc install work out?
[02:55] <pitti> Mithrandir: finished the installation two minutes ago
[02:55] <pitti> Mithrandir: have gdm now, I'll test the basic functionality with a fresh user
[02:55] <Mithrandir> pitti: thanks
[02:56] <pitti> Mithrandir: apart from the absolutely grave bug 'time estimate wrong while installing packages' it went without problems
[02:56] <pitti> :)
[02:56] <Mithrandir> pitti: well-known aptitude bug. :-)
[02:59] <Mithrandir> ogra: btw, feel free to upload that once you have it, please just make sure it looks sane before uploading. :-)
[02:59] <ogra> yep
[03:00] <infinity> 2 hours now that cron.daily has just started.
[03:01] <infinity> If you'd uploaded 5 minutes ago, you'd have had a better turnaround. :)
[03:01] <ogra> i first have to wait for my seed push to show up ... add that time :)
[03:01] <pitti> ogra: oh, you do the seed stuff on your local box?
[03:01] <Mithrandir> ogra: nah, as long as it takes less than an hour, you're fine.
[03:01] <pitti> ogra: with the current bzr that'd take ages...
[03:01] <infinity> I think we're going to need to get cron.daily cycles happening faster before we hit release crunch next month...
[03:02] <ogra> pitti, i push it via sftp ... but i have to wait until the cronjob moves it
[03:02] <ogra> pitti, its not about bzr 
[03:02] <pitti> ogra: I do seed stuff on chinstrap with a local branch, that's much faster
[03:03] <ogra> pitti, i dont care about push/pull colin merges the edubuntu changes in the public seed branch via cronjob every 20min
[03:03] <ogra> thats what i'm waiting for now ...
[03:04] <ogra> before i can run the update script in the metapackage
[03:04] <ogra> (during flights these idly moments waiting for a single fix are the suck)
[03:06] <pitti> Mithrandir: I deem ppc/install fine now
[03:06] <Mithrandir> pitti: excellent
[03:06] <pitti> Mithrandir: a fresh user profile doesn't have g-p-m, but the old battstat thingy, but that's not really a blocker
[03:07] <Mithrandir> pitti: I end up reading "fresh" as "french" and wondered "hmm, so the French have different user profiles too?  Oh well.."
[03:07] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: of course they do.. all acronyms have to be reversed
[03:07] <pitti> *chuckle*
[03:08] <pitti> Kinnison: is that known? ^ (battstat instead of g-p-m in fresh user profile)
[03:09] <Genman> Hi
[03:09] <Genman> Can anyone tell me how to report a bug in the fridge site ?
[03:11] <ogra> Kamion, can you speed up my last seed push to show up in the public part ? 
[03:16] <seb128> jordi: gnome-panel
[03:18] <Genman> Hmm.. if anyone care. fridge site has a bug. the menu is going to the buttom of the site.
[03:22] <ogra> yay, finally
[03:22] <Kinnison> pitti: Hmm, that's odd
[03:22] <Kinnison> seb128: I thought you'd removed battstat from the default session?
[03:22] <seb128> pitti: you should have both
[03:23] <seb128> Kinnison: no, didn't come yet to do it with the UI sprint
[03:23] <seb128> next week with GNOME 2.14.0
[03:24] <pitti> Kinnison: ah, wait, maybe I don't see the icon by default if I take out the battery?
[03:24] <Kinnison> pitti: no you won't
[03:24] <pitti> Kinnison: I do see an icon in my own profile, but that's a customized one
[03:24] <Kinnison> pitti: Hmm
[03:24] <pitti> Kinnison: ah, ok, PEBCAK then :) thanks
[03:24] <seb128> pitti: the battstat applet is an applet
[03:25] <seb128> pitti: g-p-m uses the notify area, ie: it's not in the panel profile
[03:25] <seb128> no?
[03:25] <pitti> is it planned to remove battstat for new profiles?
[03:26] <ogra> if we ship g-p-m we should ...
[03:26] <Kamion> ogra: I imagine it's got there by now ...
[03:26] <ogra> Kamion, yup
[03:26] <seb128> pitti: yeah, but it's not clear if we should stop building the applet or let it as a choice
[03:26] <ogra> already running update
[03:26] <pitti> seb128: oh, it isn't possible to just not activate it by default?
[03:27] <seb128> if we stop building it we can drop it from panel profiles on update
[03:27] <pitti> that would solve it for upgrades, too, right?
[03:27] <seb128> pitti: there is an gnome-applets tool to mark applets as deprecated so they get dropped cleanly on update
[03:27] <ogra> but then its gone permanently
[03:27] <seb128> pitti: yeah
[03:28] <pitti> Mithrandir: does the live CD delibarately drop into text mode after setting up X and the account?
[03:28] <Mithrandir> pitti: ddcprobe does it in some cases through a chvt
[03:29] <Mithrandir> I'm not sure how to fix it
[03:29] <pitti> well, not a blocker anyway, I was just curious whether it's deliberate for debugging or a bug
[03:29] <infinity> We'll figure something out in the next month.
[03:29] <pitti> anyway, ppc/live boots fine
[03:29] <infinity> pitti: It's a bug, but a deliberate one, currently.
[03:29] <infinity> If that even makes sense.
[03:29] <Mithrandir> it's a bug, but not an important one ATM
[03:29] <Mithrandir> pitti: we're rolling new live images now
[03:30] <pitti> infinity: I'm still trying to redefine the word 'bug' to match 'deliberate' :)
[03:30] <pitti> Mithrandir: ooh, my quota will love you :)
[03:30] <Mithrandir> pitti: rsync, dude. :-)
[03:30] <pitti> Mithrandir: even with rsync
[03:30] <pitti> Mithrandir: anyway, ping me when they are public, then I can help testing htem
[03:31] <pitti> Mithrandir: (I'm just scraping at the 92% mark now, so I have to be a little aware of what I'm doing, but nevermind)
[03:31] <Mithrandir> pitti: willdo
[03:32] <seb128> Mithrandir: I've an another theme update fixing progress bar with firefox and thunderbird and an another bug, should I upload it or better to wait?
[03:34] <Mithrandir> seb128: I'd prefer if you waited at least until we have one of the live CDs tested, which should be on the range of half an hour to an hour.
[03:34] <infinity> seb128: I can live with the Tbird bug for a day. :)  It's not critical.
[03:35] <ogra> oh, kubuntu live ppc is oversized ? 
[03:35] <ogra> Riddell, ^^ are you aware ?
[03:35] <Kamion> "oversized" now means "won't burn on regular CD media", BTW
[03:36] <Kamion> since we upped the image size to 700MB across the board
[03:37] <seb128> Mithrandir, infinity: oki
[03:37] <pitti> hmm, logout on (ppc) live CD doesn't do anything but hang the panel
[03:37] <Riddell> ogra: these crazy powerpcs and their 50 different linux builds
[03:38] <ogra> heh
[03:38] <Mithrandir> seb128: the install cds will have the transparent menus bug since I'd prefer to end this day at some point.  The live CDs will be fixed, though.
[03:38] <ogra> Riddell, just drop a language :) 
[03:38] <infinity> pitti: It worked for me...
[03:38] <pitti> after 30 seconds it does
[03:39] <pitti> anyway, not a biggie either
[03:40] <pitti> shutdown hangs after ejcting the CD, too
[03:40] <pitti> hm, this worked yesterday
[03:41] <Mithrandir> pitti: press enter
[03:41] <pitti> that worked
[03:41] <irvin> pitti: got a sec? i have a one quick question.
[03:41] <pitti> IIRC yesterday it auto-powered-off after 30 seconds or so
[03:42] <pitti> irvin: go ahead
[03:42] <seb128> Mithrandir: ok, so please keep the flight5 note about it :)
[03:42] <ogra> so we need to ship a Mithrandir with every CD that tells you "press enter" in the end ? 
[03:42] <Mithrandir> seb128: yes, will do.
[03:42] <Mithrandir> ogra: no, it says on the screen.  It's really a casper bug.  Or usplash.  Or something.
[03:43] <ogra> ah ...
[03:43] <ogra> but i liked the idea :)
[03:43] <Mithrandir> I don't like support work, so I don't. :-P
[03:43] <ogra> "includes a personal assistant now"
[03:44] <sladen> Mithrandir: transparent menus?  Is that the Xorg-configure bug where the shell and menus both appear at the same time?
[03:44] <Mithrandir> sladen: uh, no, it's a theme bug, afaik.
[03:44] <Mithrandir> sladen: which just affects ooo
[03:45] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: everything is an OOo bug :P
[03:47] <doko> Treenaks: write your next spec with OOo ...
[03:47] <zul> heylo
[03:47] <Treenaks> doko: Are you trying to kill me?!
[03:47] <Treenaks> doko: :P
[03:51] <derekS_> quick question, just reading the DapperDevSatatus, what is the difference between Implemented and Approved? Is something that is approved already implemented?
[03:52] <Kamion> approved => specification (design document) approved so implementation can safely proceed
[03:52] <Kamion> implemented => implementation actually done
[03:52] <derekS_> so a lot of these things that say "approved" weren't actually done?
[03:53] <Kamion> indeed, anything that says just Approved isn't complete yet
[03:53] <Kamion> but if it's still in the report then I believe we're still shooting for completion
[03:54] <ogra> oh, why was 20060310 deleted from my daily-live dir ?
[03:54] <Kamion> (though I'm not sure, I haven't seen today's report)
[03:54] <derekS_> Kamion: so anything that says "deferred" isn't being worked on (or most likely won't be completed) but anything that says approved will hopefully be done?
[03:54] <derekS_> i got it now :)
[03:55] <mgalvin> Kamion: just to be sure you know, i am finishing up the review now, i will let you know when its ready
[03:57] <Kamion> mgalvin: thanks - Mithrandir and infinity are coordinating this release
[03:57] <Kamion> derekS_: right
[03:58] <Kamion> ogra: must've been deleted manually, as far as I can tell
[03:58] <ogra> strange
[03:58] <Kamion> the log for 20060310.1 doesn't say that it's purging it
[03:59] <Mithrandir> mgalvin: excellent, thanks.
[04:00] <Mithrandir> ogra: is edubuntu getting there?
[04:00] <mgalvin> Mithrandir: np, half way there now
[04:00] <ogra> Mithrandir, once -meta is in the archive...
[04:01] <ogra> does anybody else find the LP build log overview less usable than lamonts ? 
[04:02] <Kamion> pitti: hmm - could I get questions.dat from that install too?
[04:02] <Kamion> sorry, should've asked for that to start with but I didn't remind myself of the code first
[04:03] <pitti> Kamion: of course, will attach
[04:03] <Kamion> thanks
[04:05] <pitti> ahh, booting current dapper on powerpc is sooo nice again - display, sound, network, everything is working :)
[04:05] <mjg59> Sleep?
[04:06] <pitti> mjg59: that has never been broken fortunately
[04:06] <Engla> pitti: that sounds great
[04:06] <Engla> what model do you have?
[04:08] <pitti> Engla: iBook G4
[04:08] <pitti> Engla: 800 MHz, with ATI Radeon 9200
[04:08] <pitti> Kamion: attached
[04:09] <ogra> Mithrandir, do you ping if the new liveCD is ready for testing ? 
[04:12] <Engla> pitti: do you have dri /3d enabled by default?
[04:12] <infinity> seb128: BTW, remember how I said Thunderbird got "ugly" with broken 3D widgets and weird coloured separation bars?
[04:12] <infinity> seb128: Your last upload fixed that.
[04:12] <pitti> Engla: yes
[04:12] <Engla> Last daily livecd I tried gave me that
[04:13] <Engla> I was thrilled
[04:13] <pitti> Engla: that has worked since warty
[04:13] <infinity> seb128: So, if your next upload fixes the progress bar bug, the Thunderbird is happy again.
[04:13] <Riddell> pitti: MainInclusionReportKwinCrystal up, quickish review appreciated if possible so I can upload the new kubuntu-default-settings from the uisprint
[04:13] <seb128> infinity: nice :) There is also a bug on update which vanish once the app restarted
[04:13] <Engla> pitti: doesn't work by default on my ibook in breezy
[04:13] <seb128> s/app restarted/app is restarted
[04:13] <Mithrandir> ogra: the new ubuntu or edubuntu one?
[04:13] <seb128> infinity: BTW do you ever sleep? :)
[04:13] <ogra> Mithrandir, i thought the whole livefs needs a rebuild ? 
[04:14] <pitti> Riddell: yes, doing now
[04:14] <ogra> Mithrandir, i can trigger the edubuntu live build myself if you notify me
[04:14] <Mithrandir> ogra: oh, you need an edubuntu livefs rebuild?  Just a second and I'll trigger you one
[04:15] <ogra> Mithrandir, noo
[04:15] <ogra> Mithrandir, you said we'd need a new live build in #c
[04:15] <ogra> since i didnt see one yet, i was waiting for a new one to show up
[04:15] <Mithrandir> ogra: edubuntu livefs != ubuntu livefs.   It'd be bloody helpful if you told me which one you were talking about.
[04:15] <ogra> if i mistook that, dont bother
[04:16] <ogra> i always talk about edubuntu ;)
[04:16] <infinity> seb128: Sometimes.
[04:19] <ogra> wow, daniels is on a bug triage session ...
[04:19] <simira> :-)
[04:21] <infinity> s/triage/unassign/
[04:23] <pitti> Riddell: oh, that's a trivial one, go ahead
[04:23] <Mithrandir> pitti: feel free to test new live now.
[04:23] <Mithrandir> I'm taking a break while my images sync down
[04:23] <pitti> yay, /me cranks up rsync
[04:27] <Mez> what happened to network-manager anyways
[04:28] <Mez> ah - nm-applet has been made into it's won package
[04:41] <Mez> grr
[04:41] <Mez> network-manager is completely broken
[04:42] <Mez> other than the dispatcherd
[05:32] <Q-FUNK> is there any repository where I could find versions of ubuntu-artwork prior to 3? i.e. prior to ubuntulooks
[05:35] <ogra> Mithrandir, edubuntu live are all fine (apart from usplash timing out on ppc and a missing opportunity to select widescreen resolutions for non detected lcd panels (read that as *all* lcd's i have here))
[05:39] <Mithrandir> ogra: goodie.
[05:40] <ogra> yep
[05:41] <ogra> even if i still see it as major regression that i have no opportunity to use the liveCd on any of my laptops around without getting headdaches from blurry streched screens :)
[05:41] <ogra> we need to find a way to capture that for dapper+1 ...
[05:41] <Mithrandir> ogra: patches accepted. :-)
[05:41] <pitti> Mithrandir: latest ppc/live looks good; any changes compared to the previous image that I should put particular attention to?
[05:41] <ogra> Mithrandir, ENOTIME (in this release cycle) 
[05:42] <ogra> i bet you want some g-s-s fixes rather :)
[05:42] <Mithrandir> pitti: check that double-clicking espresso starts espresso, and if you have time, do a full install
[05:42] <Mithrandir> ogra: I'm just pondering switching to xscreesaver, to be honest.  gss is still a bit funky for me.
[05:42] <pitti> hm, then I'll trash my freshly installed dapper, but oh well..
[05:42] <ogra> Mithrandir, inderstood ... i'll do what i can ...
[05:43] <ogra> *understood even
[05:43] <Mithrandir> pitti: if it's fresh, no harm in nuking it. ;-)
[05:43] <pitti> Mithrandir: right, just a matter of time
[05:43] <pitti> Mithrandir: confirmed, espresso starts now with the icon
[05:43] <Mithrandir> pitti: excellent
[05:43] <pitti> the s/gksudo/sudo/ hack?
[05:44] <Mithrandir> yup
[05:44] <ogra> does anyone know if these horrible apricot colors are final ? 
[05:44] <Mithrandir> ogra: TTBOMK, yes
[05:44] <mgalvin> Mithrandir: the "this is not the final artwork" splash still shows up for me, not sure if you guys have fixed that yet for the flight
[05:44] <ogra> (they look totally awful with edubuntu wallpaper and gartoon icons) 
[05:45] <jsgotangco> i like the one with the handwriting
[05:45] <jsgotangco> lol
[05:45] <Mithrandir> mgalvin: I see it too.  I don't think artwork (as in, example content, splash, etc) is final
[05:46] <mgalvin> ok, i just saw it when i rebooted and wanted to make sure you guys were aware of it
[05:46] <ogra> dapper-install-powerpc.iso         10-Mar-2006 16:41  696M 
[05:46] <ogra> feel the edge !
[05:46] <jsgotangco> lol
[05:48] <Mithrandir> I'll be offline for a few more hours then returning for a few final tests before we can release.
[05:48] <ogra> i should be ready by then
[05:48] <Mithrandir> excellent.
[05:48] <ogra> (unless i discover new breakage now)
[05:49] <Mithrandir> yeah, if so we might end up postponing until tomorrow
[05:49] <Mithrandir> anyway, I'm off
[05:49] <ogra> enjoy
[05:50] <pitti> Mithrandir: espresso crashes right after selecting the timezone, so I won't trash my install (I'll file a bug)
[06:12] <Kamion> Mithrandir: pitti's bug 34332 suggests to me that espresso may be hosed on powerpc; not entirely sure
[06:12] <Ubugtu> malone bug 34332 in espresso "crashes right after timezone selection" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34332
[06:12] <Kamion> debconf.DebconfError: (10, "console-data/keymap/qwerty/layout doesn't exist")
[06:29] <dooglus> when I run "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" in dapper, chroot'ed to an etch partition, my desktop wallpaper gets replaced with weird pictures.  should I report that against dapper or etch?
[06:37] <trappist> dooglus: I'd say it's dappers job to keep your chroot chrooted.  if stuff is escaping I'd say report it against the running OS.
[06:38] <LaserJock> pitti: ping?
[06:38] <pitti> hi LaserJock 
[06:39] <LaserJock> pitti: do you take care of tetex-base?
[06:39] <pitti> not particularly
[06:39] <dooglus> trappist: it seems that dapper is letting etch write to the X server's memory - I guess that's allowed
[06:40] <pitti> LaserJock: but I can fix easy bugs in it, of course (just assign them to me in LP)
[06:40] <LaserJock> pitti: well, I was just going to say that I saw that Debian released some major (RC and other) bug fixes that we don't have. I was wondering if it would be a good idea to sync?
[06:42] <pitti> LaserJock: looks safe enough, I'll do some tests and upgrade it (probably on Monday"
[06:42] <pitti> s/"/)/
[06:43] <LaserJock> pitti: ok great
[07:45] <ogra> Mithrandir, Kamion, edubuntu install all arches are go ...
[07:46] <ogra> so in case Riddell is ready, w can release
[08:10] <mkrufky> ok, i'd like to announce that I (finally) got stored procedures working for m$sql under php5 / breezy, after patching the php code and recompiling from scratch.....  I already understand that this functionality will not be officially added to Ubuntu until after dapper+1 , so, I'd like to upload these packages somewhere, in case someone else can benefit.  Is there a place where I can do that, or should I use my own server?
[08:11] <mkrufky> ...in other words....... I have a working php5-mssql package... anybody want it?
[08:12] <Chipzz> wont that be a problem since it has a non-free build-dependency? (I presume)
[08:13] <mkrufky> nope
[08:13] <mkrufky> nothing non-free about it
[08:13] <Chipzz> no m$sql headers or something involved?
[08:13] <mkrufky> the current php5 code has support for php5-mssql over TDS .... it is just not being compiled in the current ubuntu distros
[08:13] <mkrufky> nope, no m$sql headers needed at all
[08:14] <Chipzz> I had mostly the same issues some years ago
[08:14] <mkrufky> ...and I cant even take the credit for this -- infinity told me how to do it
[08:14] <mkrufky> oh ya?  what did you end up do ing?
[08:14] <Chipzz> I had a patch for php-java support in debian
[08:14] <Chipzz> back when java was in non-free/contrib
[08:14] <LaserJock> mkrufky: -motu would help if you want to get it into Universe
[08:14] <mkrufky> interesting
[08:15] <mkrufky> LaserJock: hmm... I dont wanna step on infinity's toes... He told me he was planning to add it to dapper+1 ...  
[08:15] <Chipzz> basically I submitted it to the maintainer, and got an answer that it couldn't go in the package since the package was for main and as such it coulnd't depend on anything in non-free/contrib
[08:15] <mkrufky> LaserJock: i was mainly thinking it would be nice for an intermediate package for users that cant wait for dapper+1
[08:16] <Chipzz> dunnow about the ubuntu policies about such things
[08:16] <mkrufky> Chipzz: that kinda thing is fine with Ubuntu, because there are alternate repos (universe, multiverse, etc) for exactly that purpose
[08:16] <LaserJock> mkrufky: well, if you want MOTUs to take a look at the package you can upload it to REVU
[08:18] <mkrufky> LaserJock: sounds good.... is there a howto somewhere that explains the rules, and where to upload them?
[08:18] <mkrufky> (not sure what REVU is, but the howto should probably cover that also)
[08:19] <mkrufky> lol -- REVU = review, doesnt it?  (i should have known)
[08:21] <LaserJock> mkrufky: sorry, phone. check out wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU and the #ubuntu-motu channel
[08:23] <Chipzz> > My packages were built against the unofficial j2sdk1.4 blackdown packa-
[08:23] <Chipzz> > ges, you may want to change that.
[08:23] <Chipzz> PHP4 already has quite a hefty list of build-dependencies that we need
[08:23] <Chipzz> to be able to trim down, so adding another module to the list of those
[08:23] <Chipzz> being built is not a high priority.  Using Blackdown's JDK is also a
[08:23] <Chipzz> non-starter, since it would require moving PHP to contrib.
[08:24] <mkrufky> LaserJock: ok, good stuff.  I will do that.  Thanks
[08:24] <Chipzz> in that case, I think a non-free build-dep would have caused php to contrib
[08:24] <Chipzz> but no matter, I'm probably mistaken ;)
[08:27] <mkrufky> Chipzz: this particular case is not a 'non-free' type of package.....  All I did was backport a patch from php 5.1.x  into php 5.0.5 (which fixed stored procedure abilities for mssql) and enabled the php5-mssql package (currently disabled in both breezy and dapper) .... none of it includes any extra headers...
[08:28] <mkrufky> anyway, i'm going to test this a bit more, then I'll look into the motu stuff... maybe get it included into universe, but I dont think they will accept it, because I know infinity had plans for this at a later date.... we'll see what happens
[08:28] <Chipzz> mkrufky: all the better then ;)
[08:29] <LaserJock> mkrufky: of course I doubt infinity will mind if you do all the work for him ;-)
[08:29] <mkrufky> :-D
[08:29] <mkrufky> good point
[09:09] <sistpoty> FYI: motu-meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now
[09:14] <Treenaks> hmm.. should gfxboot hang the machine? (I can boot the installer properly with shift held down)
[09:14] <Treenaks> (20060310 daily)
[09:30] <CarlFK> dapper, shutting down - why do I see "stopping bit torrent tracker"?
[09:32] <Pygi> CarlFK: perhaps it's stoping a service? :-)
[09:33] <CarlFK> perhaps, but I sure didn't ask for it
[09:34] <Burgwork> CarlFK, there is a bug open for it
[09:35] <CarlFK> thanks
[10:00] <sladen> CarlFK: bittorrent isn't actually run
[10:09] <CarlFK> sladen: I didn't think so, but the message was alarming
[10:09] <CarlFK> root@viao:~# apt-cache search --names-only LiVES; lives - Powerful video editing tool
[10:09] <CarlFK> why is what it found in lower case?
[10:10] <sladen> probably because it does lower-case matching by converting everything to lowercase first
[10:10] <CarlFK> nope
[10:10] <Treenaks> because packages with uppercase names suck ;)
[10:11] <CarlFK> cuz I couldn't find lives 
[10:11] <CarlFK> normally... but not in this case ;)
[10:15] <CarlFK> oh wait... 
[10:15] <CarlFK> I added a repo it was in between search lives and Lives
[10:15] <CarlFK> my scientific method is not very scientific 
[10:18] <CarlFK> the search is not case sensitive:  apt-cache search --names-only lives = lives - powerful video editing tool
[10:19] <CarlFK> supposedly it should be in main, but isn't.  is it too late to get added to universe?
[10:19] <Mithrandir> Kamion: grr, ok.  That's my bug.  Should we postpone until Monday so I can fix the bug in the meantime?
[10:20] <Seveas> lives in main? it's way too buggy for that...
[10:22] <CarlFK> even if it wasn't, isn't it way too late?
[10:23] <keherman> is it too late to request a package upgrade for Dapper?
[10:26] <mkrufky> keherman: make the request... the worst that can happen is the request gets denied
[10:26] <keherman> mkrufky, how do i request?
[10:26] <keherman> i have a deb and everythign for them to use1
[10:26] <ogra_> keherman, depends on the rationale ... generally we are past both freezes that block inclusion, but if important bugs are fixed and the change is small exceptions are possible
[10:26] <Seveas> CarlFK, it's too late even for universe
[10:26] <keherman> Adobe Acroread is not being upgraded
[10:26] <CarlFK> shucks.  thanks.
[10:26] <Seveas> even though sabdfl wants to postpone dapper
[10:26] <keherman> staying at 7.0.1
[10:27] <ogra_> Seveas, yes :((
[10:27] <trappist> have you all seen mark's proposal to push the release back?
[10:27] <keherman> but 7.0.5 includes revamped printing support to add CUPS
[10:27] <Seveas> ogra_, it's sad indeed
[10:27] <Seveas> 6 whole weeks
[10:27] <trappist> I guess so.
[10:27] <keherman> you mean Dapper is being dealyed over a month?
[10:28] <mkrufky> :'(
[10:28] <ogra_> i understand the reasons, but i dont agree we should do that ...
[10:28] <tseng> its a proposal kids
[10:28] <tseng> nto a mandate
[10:28] <Seveas> keherman, it's not certain
[10:28] <ogra_> it will be decided by the TB anyway
[10:28] <keherman> it will be 6.06?
[10:28] <ogra_> heh, good question
[10:28] <trappist> god, so many docs would have to be modified
[10:29] <tseng> sed is cool
[10:29] <trappist> I'm afraid it would catch stuff that doesn't want to be caught
[10:29] <Seveas> trappist, that alone may be quite a good reason not to push back
[10:30] <mdke> I think it's a good idea to postpone
[10:30] <trappist> not good enough by itself, but worth putting on the list for sure
[10:30] <keherman> what are the reasons for a proposed delay?
[10:30] <mdke> too many things are being done at the last minute for dapper, and dapper needs to be just right
[10:30] <Seveas> mdke, true, but 6 weeks?
[10:31] <mdke> 6 weeks is a little long
[10:31] <Seveas> that's 1/4 of the cycle for dapper+1
[10:31] <Treenaks> 2-3 weeks would be enough then
[10:31] <keherman> Michael Dell will be watching closely
[10:31] <mdke> 4 weeks would work I think
[10:32] <keherman> Just to let you guys know, I work for IBM and we have 30 machines running Breezy and connecting via LDAP to a main server -- we are really looking forward to Dapper
[10:32] <mdke> cool
[10:32] <keherman> This is at my University of Massachusetts
[10:32] <mdke> keherman, the more you look forward to it, the most it has to be right
[10:32] <mdke> right now, the translations are late, the art is late, lots of stuff is late
[10:33] <keherman> we did the Steve Ballmer protest at our school, dressed up as penuins...
[10:33] <keherman> *penguins
[10:33] <keherman> there is a hugs Ubuntu following here, and we would rather a delay than kill the image of Ubuntu as 'just working'
[10:34] <keherman> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5336561617389993359&q=microsoft+linux
[10:34] <mdke> that's pretty cool
[10:36] <Mithrandir> I think we'll delay flight-5 till at least tomorrow.  Espresso doesn't work right on ppc, I need to fix that before we can release.
[10:36] <Mithrandir> Kamion: 
[10:36] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ^^^, even
[10:37] <Mithrandir> sorry about that; my bug, but it's getting late here now and I'm tired, so the chance of me breaking something up is too big compared to the chance of me getting it right
[10:37] <Pygi> mithrandir: and I am *downloading* the Edubuntu one to test
[10:38] <ogra_> Pygi, ppc ?
[10:38] <Pygi> ogra: no, i386
[10:38] <ogra_> so dont worry then :)
[10:39] <Pygi> I do not worry, just wanted to say that I'll be testing it :)
[10:40] <ogra_> Pygi, great, live or install ?
[10:40] <Pygi> ogra: both...
[10:40] <Pygi> I will test the espresso installation, and regular installation
[10:40] <ogra_> cool, thanks for that :)
[10:41] <Pygi> yw, but that's nothing :)
[10:43] <Pygi> ogra: perphaps you might know if we will finally start releasing a server flight's ? :)
[10:43] <ogra_> nope 
[10:43] <ogra_> ask #ubuntu-server ;)
[10:44] <Pygi> bah, people in there are sleepy :-P
[10:46] <Pygi> thanks anyway ;)
[10:46] <ogra_> but since edubuntu is a server distro, we already release a server version ;)
[10:47] <Pygi> bah, agreed, but not the actual -server one ;) I remember colin (is that correct name? ;) ) telling that nobody wanted to build it for flight 4, and he was too busy, so was just wondering...
[10:51] <ogra_> its up to the server team 
[10:52] <ogra_> but actually the only stuff that really needs testing there is the kernels i guess
[10:53] <Pygi> yup, running that kernels all the time...installation needed testing as well a few weeks ago as well, if I remember correctly
[11:35] <sladen> jeez.  Did the new theme designer have her monitor badly adjusted.  Because I'm going to have to badly adjust mine to carry on working without having the back of my eye-balls burnt out
[11:36] <Treenaks> sladen: ORANGEY GOODNESS
[11:36] <Burgwork> Welcome to Ubuntu*
[11:36] <Burgwork> *Now sponsored by Orange
[11:36] <Pygi> slanden: lol :)))
[11:36] <Treenaks> Burgwork: it's perfect for the Dutch football fans at the world championship this summer ;)
[11:36] <sladen> Treenaks: I should switch to Kubuntu if I had a desire to spend more time looking at the window-border bling than the contents of my xterm
[11:36] <sladen> s/should/would/
[11:36] <Burgwork> sladen, jdud will be glad to know he has suddnetly changed sexes
[11:37] <sladen> jdub: ORANGE?!?
[11:37] <minghua> doko: hi, I posted a patch for ttf-dejavu, I saw that you subscribed to that bug as well
[11:37] <Burgwork> oops, jdub (that was not a delibrate slip)
[11:37] <minghua> doko: I'll test for version 2.3 soon
[11:37] <doko> minghua: thanks, preparing 2.3 packages
[11:38] <minghua> doko: great to hear that.  but I assume the upload has to happen after flight 5 is out
[11:39] <doko> minghua: yes
[11:41] <doko> lamont: please file a report for the python breezy thing
[11:49] <sladen> jdub: you've moved the hue from ~25 to ~19 (the brown->orange slant), the saturation was gone from ~55% to ~70% which is the less appealing change as this reduces the contrast between the background and 'white' (effectively making the background gradients into foreground colours)
[11:49] <sladen> jdub: if you reduce the saturation back to what it was, there's a probably that your changes should become more useable and less distracting
[11:53] <doko> sladen: +1
[11:54] <alicia> If dapper is going to be released 6 weeks later than originally planned, will the latest NetworkManager with WPA support be included?
[11:54] <tseng> nope.
[11:54] <tseng> reasons for extending dapper dont include 'throwing in more crack'
[11:55] <alicia> I thought the crack was the way Ubuntu modified NM? Thats what I read on the NM devel lists
[11:56] <tseng> crack is used pretty loosely around here
[11:56] <tseng> but if you want a full list of reasons for not including the latest NM, see ubuntu-devel list
[11:56] <alicia> I read Ubuntu-devel
[11:56] <alicia> Off and on. Was it the atheros stuff?
[11:57] <siretart> there is a pretty good explanation why updating to NM 0.6 is out of question
[11:57] <tseng> no, it has nothing to do with athereos
[11:57] <tseng> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-March/016170.html
[11:57] <alicia> I must have missed it
[11:58] <alicia> tseng: Thanks. Fair enough
[11:59] <alicia> But I'm going to guess it will be in good shape for dapper + 1
[11:59] <tseng> np
[11:59] <tseng> quite likely
[11:59] <alicia> excellent