/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/03/15/#ubuntu-doc.txt

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Burgworkmdke_, ping02:26
Burgworkmdke_, unping02:26
LaserJockhmm, I didn't know you could unping02:28
crimsunsure, you'd just RST02:30
crimsungranted, it's not like echo "un"request or anything02:31
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robotgeekmdke_: ping03:11
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Madpilothi all07:44
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robitailleHi manicka 07:46
robitailleHi Madpilot 07:46
manickahi :)07:47
robotgeekhey all07:48
MadpilotThe Freeze is Nigh Upon Us! Flee, for we are all doomed! </raving lunatic>07:49
Madpilot;)07:49
Madpilotrobotgeek, did you add that wireless section to UDG, or should I? (sort of lost track of commits today...)07:51
robotgeekMadpilot: yes, i did commit it07:52
robotgeekMadpilot: i was not sure if you wanted it there, so i did not commit intially07:52
Madpilotah, there it is. Looks good.07:52
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robotgeekotherwise i would have to copy back from you 07:53
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mdke_robotgeek, pong08:37
mdke_Burgwork, unpong08:37
robotgeekhey mdke_ 08:37
mdke_hiya08:37
robotgeekmdke_: now i don't remeber, and i don't have a log08:38
mdke_heh08:38
mdke_you just came in, said ping, and left08:38
robotgeekheh, i'll ping again later08:38
robotgeeki'm trying to recover all my mail, i screw my machine up 08:39
mdke_word up08:39
Madpilothi mdke_ - I just fixed the menu stuff that I messed up last night08:39
mdke_oh cool, I forgot about that08:39
mdke_bhuvan, hey dude08:40
bhuvanhello mdke_08:40
mdke_Madpilot, the gparted menu entry is now "Gnome Partition Editor" fyi08:40
Madpilotmdke_, that leads into my next point:08:41
mdke_bhuvan, what do you think about removing the gnome-app-install section of the server guide?08:41
Madpilotone thing we **must** do before freeze - get some Dapper users to sanity-check the menu entries in UDG...08:41
bhuvanboth me and brian were in dilemma. we are certain it can be removed08:41
mdke_yes indeed08:41
mdke_bhuvan, i agree it should be removed08:42
bhuvanmdke_, ok. i'll take care08:42
mdke_it's gnome-specific08:42
=== bhuvan goes to have lunch
mdke_buon appetito08:43
mdkeMadpilot, I've got a dapper install08:43
Madpilotmdke, I'm still running Breezy; I'll have a go w/ a Flight4 livecd this weekend, though08:43
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Madpilothi Burgundavia 08:44
mdkeMadpilot, the menu entries might change late-ish, like gparted did yesterday08:45
Madpilotmdke, how late is 'late-ish', and what does that mean WRT our string freeze?08:45
Burgundaviasalut Madpilot08:46
mdkeMadpilot, next thursday is string freeze so they can't change after that08:47
mdkewe have a week after that08:47
MadpilotOK, I'll leave the menu entries for now, and we can blitz them next week08:47
mdkeyeah08:48
mdkewe need to take a look at About Ubuntu :/08:52
Madpilotit's still going to be just a web page for Dapper, right?08:52
mdkean xml file08:53
mdkeI think we can just transpose the changes we've made to the about ubuntu section of the desktop guide and move it across08:53
MadpilotJust had a look at Breezy's About Ubuntu... Bug Number One: It doesn't say which version of Ubuntu I'm running08:54
mdkeabsolutely08:55
mdkealthough that's fixed now08:55
Madpilotyeah, just comparing what's in SVN08:56
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robotgeeknow to figure out how to make gmail will keep the from address as venkatvc@ubuntu.com09:11
mdkerobotgeek, use an email client!09:12
robotgeekmdke: how do i setup the smtp? 09:12
mdkeyou use your isp's smtp?09:13
mdkeor your own, if you have one09:13
robotgeeki use gmail's smtp09:13
mdkeok09:14
mdkeI'm sure that works in a mail client, right?09:14
robotgeekyeah, i was seeing if i could make gmail rewrite the from header when i send it from kmail09:16
robotgeekthat seems possible only in the webinterface09:17
mdkeget kmail to write the from header09:17
bhuvanrobotgeek, you can set it in gmail too09:17
robotgeekbhuvan: i did set it up in gmail, venkatvc at ubuntu.com is the default09:18
bhuvanrobotgeek, ok. so, whats your problem ?09:18
robotgeekbhuvan: i am actually sending from venkatraghavan at gmail.com using gmail's smtp, i want to find out if there is a method by which i can use gmail's smtp to make it look as it it is from venkatvc at ubuntu.com09:19
robotgeekit may not be worth spending too much time on :)09:19
Madpilotmdke, suggestion for About Ubuntu - move the "Components" section up so it's second, then Get Help and finally Participate09:20
robotgeekanyways, back to work on kdg09:20
=== Burgundavia writes the GNOME 2.14 press release
bhuvanrobotgeek, gmail->Settings->Accounts doesn't help ?09:20
robotgeekbhuvan: not if you are not using the gmail interface09:21
bhuvanok09:21
robotgeekbhuvan: plus it does put in gmail as the sender, so there's no point :)09:22
bhuvanrobotgeek: frankly, i dont understand your problem :)09:22
robotgeekbhuvan: heh09:23
robotgeeknvm, it's a waste of time, really09:23
bhuvanrobotgeek: all emails i sent as 'bhuvan@ubuntu.com' are sent from gmail web interface09:23
bhuvanrobotgeek: fine, no problem. leave it09:23
robotgeekbhuvan: exactly, the same thing doesn't happen if i use kmail, even if @ubuntu.com address is default09:23
robotgeeklanguage help needed: Each release will be supported for 18 months after it's09:34
robotgeekrelease date."09:34
robotgeekvs Each release is supported for at least 18 months.09:35
robotgeekKamping_Kaiser: ^^ 09:35
Madpilot"is supported" is simpler & has less verbiage09:35
Kamping_Kaiseragreed09:36
robotgeeki'm going over some suggestions from the kubuntuforums09:36
MadpilotI always vote (and try to edit) in the direction of less verbiage :P09:36
robotgeekhttp://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3946.msg15149#msg1514909:36
robotgeekMadpilot: some suggestions there could go into UDG too09:38
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Madpilotrobotgeek, thanks, I'll look into that tomorrow09:54
robotgeekMadpilot: cool, very minor for you. a one liner09:54
Burgundavianight all10:00
robotgeeknight bhuvan 10:00
robotgeekBurgundavia: err10:00
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robotgeekmdke: ping10:57
robotgeeki saw your planet.ubuntu.com post, and comments are welcome as bugs?10:58
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mdkerobotgeek_zzz, sure, however you prefer11:42
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jsgotangcohey guys04:58
Kamping_Kaiserhi04:58
jjessemorning jsgotangco05:05
jsgotangcohey!05:05
trappistsometimes we have American spellings and sometimes British.  Should I change behaviour to behavior, or vice versa?06:17
trappist(just an example)06:18
Burgworkwe should international, IMHO06:18
Burgworkso use behaviour, not behavior06:18
trappistaight06:18
=== trappist whips out his perl foo
Burgworkyou might want to raise it on the list first06:19
trappistgood call06:19
trappistdone06:21
trappistI'll leave it alone until there's some kind of consensus06:21
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Burgworkarghh!!!06:58
Burgworkwhy are we experimenting with theme AFTER UI freeze????06:59
=== Burgwork hulk smashes his table
LaserJockpoor Burwork07:00
LaserJockthat's gotta hurt07:00
mgalvinhi all, DapperFlight5 is just about all set (i just need to add an OOo screenshot), if anyone has time to review it and be a grammer nazi that would be great, it will be moved to the main site (www.ubuntu.com) soon so it needs to be ready as flight 5 will be released probably today, thanks in advance07:52
jjessemgalvin: what are you trying to say here on DapperFlight5:The new Ubuntulooks theme engine which is based on the very popular Clearlooks theme engine brings07:57
jjesseit doesn't read correctly to me for some reason07:58
mgalvinjust that the ubuntulook theme is not totally new, its based on cleatlooks07:58
mgalvinand that the ubuntu improvements include...07:58
jjessehmm maybe i didn't read it right, but it just seeems wrong for some wierd reason?07:59
mgalvinjjesse: there is probably to many ideas in that single sentence07:59
mgalvini will reword it08:00
mgalvinjjesse: how does that sound?08:05
robotgeektrappist: i'm guilt of writing in both08:06
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trappistmgalvin: what exactly needs to be work-nazi'ed?08:10
mgalvintrappist: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFlight508:10
trappiston it08:11
mgalvinthanks08:11
mgalvini just added the screenshot numbers so you know08:15
mdke_Burgwork, because the theme itself was added after ui freeze :(08:16
Burgworkmdke_, indeed. I am not happy08:16
mdke_well that's Ubuntu08:16
mdke_it happens every cycle08:16
Burgworkthis is exactly what I spoke about at UBZ08:16
Burgworklooks like I will be rasing it in Germany08:16
mdke_yes08:16
Burgworkagain...08:16
mdke_not to mention that the new theme sucks balls08:16
robotgeekhmm, mdke maybe start using kde. come over to the blue side?08:17
BurgworkI feel like sending an email to -devel "How not to shit on your documentation team"08:17
LaserJockBurgwork: the next developer meeting is in Germany?08:17
Burgworkbut that probably wouldn't be useful08:17
BurgworkLaserJock, yep08:17
mdkeBurgwork, it's not so much shitting on us, because it doesn't really affect our work08:18
mdkeit's just very bad practice to introduce massive changes at the end of the cycle08:18
mdkewhen this means that the changes get no community feedback08:18
mdkeand are difficult to fix08:18
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mgalvinhmm, the themes are very easy to switch between, and i think the idea of pushing flight 5 out today is to get that feedback (1 day after the theme was added)08:20
LaserJockyeah, but I think the feedback is already pretty negative, I don't think it will take Flight 5 to figure out it sucks ;-)08:22
mdkemgalvin, ui freeze was nearly 48 hours ago. it's not easy to get feedback08:22
mdkegiven that nothing can now be changed08:22
KyralWhats the new theme?08:22
mdke4 months ago would have worked08:22
LaserJockwell, they will probably change it in the next few days, I would guess08:23
mdkeI can only hope so, the theme is too broken to respect the ui freeze08:23
mgalvinKyral: see it here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFlight508:23
trappistmgalvin: DapperFlight5 is all fixed up08:24
=== Kyral has been thinking about doing a clean reinstall when Dapper is released...
trappistI plan to do that08:25
mgalvintrappist: thanks!08:25
KyralSomethin' is screwy with my GTK apps08:26
Kyralor rather GNOME08:26
LaserJockI thought you went to the dark side :)08:26
KyralWhy would I use Windows?08:26
LaserJockno, KDE08:26
Kyral..08:26
=== Kyral sighs
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LaserJocklol08:27
mgalvinmdke: true, of course the earlier the better08:27
=== mgalvin thinks ubuntulooks looks like a holloween theme :-/
LaserJockmgalvin: actually your screenshots look better than my yelp08:28
jjessemgalvin: looks fine now08:31
mgalvinjjesse: thanks08:33
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trappistbleh.  kontact issues holding up my british/american spelling patch.08:44
robotgeekmdke: ping. i now remember why i pinged you yesterday08:48
robotgeekmdke: basically, the padding left=0 mkaes it very close to the screen edge08:50
robotgeektrappist: ^^08:50
robotgeekof course, this is better than unclickable links :)08:51
mdkerobotgeek, he fixed that, iirc08:54
trappistyeah I said padding-left=1em;08:54
robotgeekmdke: the unclicable links, yes. but now it is too close to the screen edge?08:54
trappistwhere it originally said padding=1em; which was breaking clickability08:54
robotgeekhttp://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide-web/C/ch02.html for example08:55
mdkehmm08:56
robotgeekis it a problem on my screen, or is "Linux Basics" at the bottom too close to the screen08:56
mdkeoh yeah08:56
=== mdke has no ideas at present
robotgeekjust to let you know that i remembered why i pinged you yesterday08:57
mdkecool, thanks08:57
trappistthat Linux Basics is position: absolute; left: 0px;08:59
robotgeektrappist: css guru :)08:59
trappistit looks pretty deliberate09:00
trappistkmail has decided I don't get to send emails.  /me resorts to mutt to send this patch.09:00
robotgeektrappist: better thank deleteing your .kde09:01
trappistthat would suck.09:01
robotgeektrappist: i redownloaded all my mail, and setup new filters yesterday09:01
robotgeeki need to move to mutt+procmail+fetchmail solution, but i like kmail too much09:02
trappistI was a kmail guy back in the day, then went to mutt for a coupla years, but I came back09:03
trappistsent the patch, anyway09:03
trappistI like mutt a lot, but it was really just part of a misguided goal to go console for practically everything09:04
trappistto prove I was a real man or something09:04
mdkethanks for the patch trappist 09:04
mdkeignore the xfce docs from now on though :)09:04
trappistcan do09:04
mdkeand don't change pot files09:05
Burgworkis xubuntu doing docs elsewhere?09:05
mdkeBurgwork, not that I know of09:05
mdketrappist, and, a patch per document if possible too, so each contact person can check & apply09:06
trappistat first I just said for file in $(find . -type f ! -whole-name '*/.svn/*'); do perl -pi -e 's/([Bb] )ehaviour/$1ehavior/g' "$file"; done but the results of that sucked.09:07
trappistmdke: can do that too09:07
mdketrappist, thanks. Would you remail the patch with those things in mind? I'm just mailing the list now09:07
trappistsigh.  ok, back to mutt :)09:08
mdkesorry09:08
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Burgworkmdke, sweet, pdf!09:13
Burgworkwe should be able to munge a good release notes out of the excellent Flight stuff mgalvin has beendoing09:14
trappistok I think I sent it again09:17
trappistcool.  I seem to have somehow fixed kmail.09:22
mdkeBurgwork, the pdfs are pretty rubbish at the moment sadly09:26
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mdkethey aren't styled at all09:26
sdquinnhi all again09:26
sdquinnmeeting in 30min correct?09:26
mdkeholy crap09:27
mdkedid you see mark's email?09:27
sdquinnsaw a bit of it09:27
sdquinnon [ubuntu-art] ?09:27
mdkethank god09:27
Burgworkindeed09:27
Burgworkgreat09:28
mdketrappist, thanks for re-diffing09:28
trappistnp09:29
trappistwho is this mark shuttleworth bozo talking about delaying dapper?09:29
jjessethe guy in charge of ubuntu09:29
sdquinnaaaaah09:29
sdquinn"I'm writing to propose a six week delay in the release date of Dapper,"09:29
trappistI know, kidding ;)09:29
sdquinni missed that part. :(09:29
trappistI have mixed feelings about that09:30
mdkethat would be a good thing. I think we would have the same string freeze for docs though, myself09:30
trappistI lean toward delaying it, but I don't think my vote counts yet09:30
trappistthere's something to be said for the "when it's done" release cycle philosophy, but I don't like the way it works in debian.09:31
mdkewell there is a good argument that dapper is special in the context of the ubuntu cycles09:31
trappistyeah09:32
mdkemay 6 weeks is a little much09:32
jjessei wonder how they picked 6 weeks?09:32
jjessewhy not just a month09:32
trappistfrom browsing lists and hanging out on the various channels I get the feeling we've got a really good pace going and that with a little more time we could put out a significantly better release09:33
LaserJockso what would that mean for the docs?10:11
mdkewe'll have to wait an see10:12
mdkeI would say, string freeze stays the same, more time for translation10:12
LaserJockhmm10:12
mdkeor moves slightly10:12
mdkethere is a lot of stuff to get translated this time, and the docs are pretty much nearly ready10:12
LaserJockexcept the Packaging Guide10:13
mdkehaha10:13
mdkeis it in bad shape?10:13
LaserJockI'm getting pretty concerned10:13
mdkehow come?10:13
LaserJockwell, one of the problems is I need patches and review from the developer community but they are working hard on developing 10:13
=== mdke nods
LaserJockI'm not sure what it is going to look like by string freeze10:15
mdkewell don't worry10:15
mdkeperfection is impossible10:15
LaserJockyeah, but sorta complete would be nice10:15
mdkedo what you can, no worries. Shall we call on the devs in a more formal way?10:16
LaserJockIt also looks like the Ubuntu Developer's Reference that Diziet was going to do is deferred10:16
LaserJockmdke: not yet, I think most of the devs that would have an interest know, but I can push a little harder10:16
LaserJocksome of it is me just setting aside a block of time to work on it10:17
mdkesure10:17
LaserJockmy research advisor is pushing me a bit at the moment10:17
trappistI'll do what I can with the packaging guide, but having never made a .deb it'll probably be all word nazi stuff.10:17
LaserJockanyway, it is pretty much my top priority right now so I hope to get some major work done soon10:18
mdkeyay, don't let it stress ya though10:18
LaserJocktrappist: well, I'll call on your expertise after we have stuff pretty set10:18
trappistLaserJock: probably a good idea10:19
trappistanything anybody can tell me about what needs the iron grammar fist will be helpful10:19
LaserJocktrappist: I wouldn't want to waste your time on something that I'm just going to screw up ;-)10:19
trappistright :)10:19
LaserJockmdke: well I need the stress to get motivated. Unfortunately, university has taught me some bad habits.10:21
mdkeok, stress out!10:21
LaserJockmdke: but I have been totally committed to this doc and I hate to have it not be in Dapper10:21
trappistLaserJock: maybe we'll all luck out and get another six weeks10:23
mdkeyou can do it :)10:23
LaserJockmdke: will the packaging guide be translated? how would that work?10:23
mdkeLaserJock, if it's done in time, sure. It will get translated in rosetta10:24
LaserJockI don't know anything about translations so sorry for the stupid questions. Where will the translations go? Are they a part of the ubuntu-docs package?10:25
mdkeyes10:26
mdkequestions are fine :)10:26
BurgworkI think translations become part of the language packs10:28
LaserJockso the translations for all the packages for a given language that is translated are put in the lang pack. Those must be huge.10:29
mdkeBurgwork, no, they are in ubuntu-docs10:30
Burgworkoh10:30
mdkeBurgwork, http://doc.ubuntu.com/test10:42
mdkewe need to sort out proper styling for the admonitions, most importantly of all10:42
mdkeI might try and steal some of brent's stuff for GNOME10:42
mdkethen add some brown or something10:43
mdke-> bed10:43
Burgworkmdke, not bad, at least they work10:43
mdkeyeah10:43
robotgeeknight mdke 10:44
mdkenight10:44
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LaserJockgood night mdke10:46
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