[02:26] <Burgwork> mdke_, ping
[02:26] <Burgwork> mdke_, unping
[02:28] <LaserJock> hmm, I didn't know you could unping
[02:30] <crimsun> sure, you'd just RST
[02:31] <crimsun> granted, it's not like echo "un"request or anything
[03:11] <robotgeek> mdke_: ping
[07:44] <Madpilot> hi all
[07:46] <robitaille> Hi manicka 
[07:46] <robitaille> Hi Madpilot 
[07:47] <manicka> hi :)
[07:48] <robotgeek> hey all
[07:49] <Madpilot> The Freeze is Nigh Upon Us! Flee, for we are all doomed! </raving lunatic>
[07:49] <Madpilot> ;)
[07:51] <Madpilot> robotgeek, did you add that wireless section to UDG, or should I? (sort of lost track of commits today...)
[07:52] <robotgeek> Madpilot: yes, i did commit it
[07:52] <robotgeek> Madpilot: i was not sure if you wanted it there, so i did not commit intially
[07:52] <Madpilot> ah, there it is. Looks good.
[07:53] <robotgeek> otherwise i would have to copy back from you 
[08:37] <mdke_> robotgeek, pong
[08:37] <mdke_> Burgwork, unpong
[08:37] <robotgeek> hey mdke_ 
[08:37] <mdke_> hiya
[08:38] <robotgeek> mdke_: now i don't remeber, and i don't have a log
[08:38] <mdke_> heh
[08:38] <mdke_> you just came in, said ping, and left
[08:38] <robotgeek> heh, i'll ping again later
[08:39] <robotgeek> i'm trying to recover all my mail, i screw my machine up 
[08:39] <mdke_> word up
[08:39] <Madpilot> hi mdke_ - I just fixed the menu stuff that I messed up last night
[08:39] <mdke_> oh cool, I forgot about that
[08:40] <mdke_> bhuvan, hey dude
[08:40] <bhuvan> hello mdke_
[08:40] <mdke_> Madpilot, the gparted menu entry is now "Gnome Partition Editor" fyi
[08:41] <Madpilot> mdke_, that leads into my next point:
[08:41] <mdke_> bhuvan, what do you think about removing the gnome-app-install section of the server guide?
[08:41] <Madpilot> one thing we **must** do before freeze - get some Dapper users to sanity-check the menu entries in UDG...
[08:41] <bhuvan> both me and brian were in dilemma. we are certain it can be removed
[08:41] <mdke_> yes indeed
[08:42] <mdke_> bhuvan, i agree it should be removed
[08:42] <bhuvan> mdke_, ok. i'll take care
[08:42] <mdke_> it's gnome-specific
[08:43] <mdke_> buon appetito
[08:43] <mdke> Madpilot, I've got a dapper install
[08:43] <Madpilot> mdke, I'm still running Breezy; I'll have a go w/ a Flight4 livecd this weekend, though
[08:44] <Madpilot> hi Burgundavia 
[08:45] <mdke> Madpilot, the menu entries might change late-ish, like gparted did yesterday
[08:45] <Madpilot> mdke, how late is 'late-ish', and what does that mean WRT our string freeze?
[08:46] <Burgundavia> salut Madpilot
[08:47] <mdke> Madpilot, next thursday is string freeze so they can't change after that
[08:47] <mdke> we have a week after that
[08:47] <Madpilot> OK, I'll leave the menu entries for now, and we can blitz them next week
[08:48] <mdke> yeah
[08:52] <mdke> we need to take a look at About Ubuntu :/
[08:52] <Madpilot> it's still going to be just a web page for Dapper, right?
[08:53] <mdke> an xml file
[08:53] <mdke> I think we can just transpose the changes we've made to the about ubuntu section of the desktop guide and move it across
[08:54] <Madpilot> Just had a look at Breezy's About Ubuntu... Bug Number One: It doesn't say which version of Ubuntu I'm running
[08:55] <mdke> absolutely
[08:55] <mdke> although that's fixed now
[08:56] <Madpilot> yeah, just comparing what's in SVN
[09:11] <robotgeek> now to figure out how to make gmail will keep the from address as venkatvc@ubuntu.com
[09:12] <mdke> robotgeek, use an email client!
[09:12] <robotgeek> mdke: how do i setup the smtp? 
[09:13] <mdke> you use your isp's smtp?
[09:13] <mdke> or your own, if you have one
[09:13] <robotgeek> i use gmail's smtp
[09:14] <mdke> ok
[09:14] <mdke> I'm sure that works in a mail client, right?
[09:16] <robotgeek> yeah, i was seeing if i could make gmail rewrite the from header when i send it from kmail
[09:17] <robotgeek> that seems possible only in the webinterface
[09:17] <mdke> get kmail to write the from header
[09:17] <bhuvan> robotgeek, you can set it in gmail too
[09:18] <robotgeek> bhuvan: i did set it up in gmail, venkatvc at ubuntu.com is the default
[09:18] <bhuvan> robotgeek, ok. so, whats your problem ?
[09:19] <robotgeek> bhuvan: i am actually sending from venkatraghavan at gmail.com using gmail's smtp, i want to find out if there is a method by which i can use gmail's smtp to make it look as it it is from venkatvc at ubuntu.com
[09:19] <robotgeek> it may not be worth spending too much time on :)
[09:20] <Madpilot> mdke, suggestion for About Ubuntu - move the "Components" section up so it's second, then Get Help and finally Participate
[09:20] <robotgeek> anyways, back to work on kdg
[09:20] <bhuvan> robotgeek, gmail->Settings->Accounts doesn't help ?
[09:21] <robotgeek> bhuvan: not if you are not using the gmail interface
[09:21] <bhuvan> ok
[09:22] <robotgeek> bhuvan: plus it does put in gmail as the sender, so there's no point :)
[09:22] <bhuvan> robotgeek: frankly, i dont understand your problem :)
[09:23] <robotgeek> bhuvan: heh
[09:23] <robotgeek> nvm, it's a waste of time, really
[09:23] <bhuvan> robotgeek: all emails i sent as 'bhuvan@ubuntu.com' are sent from gmail web interface
[09:23] <bhuvan> robotgeek: fine, no problem. leave it
[09:23] <robotgeek> bhuvan: exactly, the same thing doesn't happen if i use kmail, even if @ubuntu.com address is default
[09:34] <robotgeek> language help needed: Each release will be supported for 18 months after it's
[09:34] <robotgeek> release date."
[09:35] <robotgeek> vs Each release is supported for at least 18 months.
[09:35] <robotgeek> Kamping_Kaiser: ^^ 
[09:35] <Madpilot> "is supported" is simpler & has less verbiage
[09:36] <Kamping_Kaiser> agreed
[09:36] <robotgeek> i'm going over some suggestions from the kubuntuforums
[09:36] <Madpilot> I always vote (and try to edit) in the direction of less verbiage :P
[09:36] <robotgeek> http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3946.msg15149#msg15149
[09:38] <robotgeek> Madpilot: some suggestions there could go into UDG too
[09:54] <Madpilot> robotgeek, thanks, I'll look into that tomorrow
[09:54] <robotgeek> Madpilot: cool, very minor for you. a one liner
[10:00] <Burgundavia> night all
[10:00] <robotgeek> night bhuvan 
[10:00] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: err
[10:57] <robotgeek> mdke: ping
[10:58] <robotgeek> i saw your planet.ubuntu.com post, and comments are welcome as bugs?
[11:42] <mdke> robotgeek_zzz, sure, however you prefer
[04:58] <jsgotangco> hey guys
[04:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi
[05:05] <jjesse> morning jsgotangco
[05:05] <jsgotangco> hey!
[06:17] <trappist> sometimes we have American spellings and sometimes British.  Should I change behaviour to behavior, or vice versa?
[06:18] <trappist> (just an example)
[06:18] <Burgwork> we should international, IMHO
[06:18] <Burgwork> so use behaviour, not behavior
[06:18] <trappist> aight
[06:19] <Burgwork> you might want to raise it on the list first
[06:19] <trappist> good call
[06:21] <trappist> done
[06:21] <trappist> I'll leave it alone until there's some kind of consensus
[06:58] <Burgwork> arghh!!!
[06:59] <Burgwork> why are we experimenting with theme AFTER UI freeze????
[07:00] <LaserJock> poor Burwork
[07:00] <LaserJock> that's gotta hurt
[07:52] <mgalvin> hi all, DapperFlight5 is just about all set (i just need to add an OOo screenshot), if anyone has time to review it and be a grammer nazi that would be great, it will be moved to the main site (www.ubuntu.com) soon so it needs to be ready as flight 5 will be released probably today, thanks in advance
[07:57] <jjesse> mgalvin: what are you trying to say here on DapperFlight5:The new Ubuntulooks theme engine which is based on the very popular Clearlooks theme engine brings
[07:58] <jjesse> it doesn't read correctly to me for some reason
[07:58] <mgalvin> just that the ubuntulook theme is not totally new, its based on cleatlooks
[07:58] <mgalvin> and that the ubuntu improvements include...
[07:59] <jjesse> hmm maybe i didn't read it right, but it just seeems wrong for some wierd reason?
[07:59] <mgalvin> jjesse: there is probably to many ideas in that single sentence
[08:00] <mgalvin> i will reword it
[08:05] <mgalvin> jjesse: how does that sound?
[08:06] <robotgeek> trappist: i'm guilt of writing in both
[08:10] <trappist> mgalvin: what exactly needs to be work-nazi'ed?
[08:10] <mgalvin> trappist: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFlight5
[08:11] <trappist> on it
[08:11] <mgalvin> thanks
[08:15] <mgalvin> i just added the screenshot numbers so you know
[08:16] <mdke_> Burgwork, because the theme itself was added after ui freeze :(
[08:16] <Burgwork> mdke_, indeed. I am not happy
[08:16] <mdke_> well that's Ubuntu
[08:16] <mdke_> it happens every cycle
[08:16] <Burgwork> this is exactly what I spoke about at UBZ
[08:16] <Burgwork> looks like I will be rasing it in Germany
[08:16] <mdke_> yes
[08:16] <Burgwork> again...
[08:16] <mdke_> not to mention that the new theme sucks balls
[08:17] <robotgeek> hmm, mdke maybe start using kde. come over to the blue side?
[08:17] <Burgwork> I feel like sending an email to -devel "How not to shit on your documentation team"
[08:17] <LaserJock> Burgwork: the next developer meeting is in Germany?
[08:17] <Burgwork> but that probably wouldn't be useful
[08:17] <Burgwork> LaserJock, yep
[08:18] <mdke> Burgwork, it's not so much shitting on us, because it doesn't really affect our work
[08:18] <mdke> it's just very bad practice to introduce massive changes at the end of the cycle
[08:18] <mdke> when this means that the changes get no community feedback
[08:18] <mdke> and are difficult to fix
[08:20] <mgalvin> hmm, the themes are very easy to switch between, and i think the idea of pushing flight 5 out today is to get that feedback (1 day after the theme was added)
[08:22] <LaserJock> yeah, but I think the feedback is already pretty negative, I don't think it will take Flight 5 to figure out it sucks ;-)
[08:22] <mdke> mgalvin, ui freeze was nearly 48 hours ago. it's not easy to get feedback
[08:22] <mdke> given that nothing can now be changed
[08:22] <Kyral> Whats the new theme?
[08:22] <mdke> 4 months ago would have worked
[08:23] <LaserJock> well, they will probably change it in the next few days, I would guess
[08:23] <mdke> I can only hope so, the theme is too broken to respect the ui freeze
[08:23] <mgalvin> Kyral: see it here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFlight5
[08:24] <trappist> mgalvin: DapperFlight5 is all fixed up
[08:25] <trappist> I plan to do that
[08:25] <mgalvin> trappist: thanks!
[08:26] <Kyral> Somethin' is screwy with my GTK apps
[08:26] <Kyral> or rather GNOME
[08:26] <LaserJock> I thought you went to the dark side :)
[08:26] <Kyral> Why would I use Windows?
[08:26] <LaserJock> no, KDE
[08:26] <Kyral> ..
[08:27] <LaserJock> lol
[08:27] <mgalvin> mdke: true, of course the earlier the better
[08:28] <LaserJock> mgalvin: actually your screenshots look better than my yelp
[08:31] <jjesse> mgalvin: looks fine now
[08:33] <mgalvin> jjesse: thanks
[08:44] <trappist> bleh.  kontact issues holding up my british/american spelling patch.
[08:48] <robotgeek> mdke: ping. i now remember why i pinged you yesterday
[08:50] <robotgeek> mdke: basically, the padding left=0 mkaes it very close to the screen edge
[08:50] <robotgeek> trappist: ^^
[08:51] <robotgeek> of course, this is better than unclickable links :)
[08:54] <mdke> robotgeek, he fixed that, iirc
[08:54] <trappist> yeah I said padding-left=1em;
[08:54] <robotgeek> mdke: the unclicable links, yes. but now it is too close to the screen edge?
[08:54] <trappist> where it originally said padding=1em; which was breaking clickability
[08:55] <robotgeek> http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide-web/C/ch02.html for example
[08:56] <mdke> hmm
[08:56] <robotgeek> is it a problem on my screen, or is "Linux Basics" at the bottom too close to the screen
[08:56] <mdke> oh yeah
[08:57] <robotgeek> just to let you know that i remembered why i pinged you yesterday
[08:57] <mdke> cool, thanks
[08:59] <trappist> that Linux Basics is position: absolute; left: 0px;
[08:59] <robotgeek> trappist: css guru :)
[09:00] <trappist> it looks pretty deliberate
[09:00] <trappist> kmail has decided I don't get to send emails.  /me resorts to mutt to send this patch.
[09:01] <robotgeek> trappist: better thank deleteing your .kde
[09:01] <trappist> that would suck.
[09:01] <robotgeek> trappist: i redownloaded all my mail, and setup new filters yesterday
[09:02] <robotgeek> i need to move to mutt+procmail+fetchmail solution, but i like kmail too much
[09:03] <trappist> I was a kmail guy back in the day, then went to mutt for a coupla years, but I came back
[09:03] <trappist> sent the patch, anyway
[09:04] <trappist> I like mutt a lot, but it was really just part of a misguided goal to go console for practically everything
[09:04] <trappist> to prove I was a real man or something
[09:04] <mdke> thanks for the patch trappist 
[09:04] <mdke> ignore the xfce docs from now on though :)
[09:04] <trappist> can do
[09:05] <mdke> and don't change pot files
[09:05] <Burgwork> is xubuntu doing docs elsewhere?
[09:05] <mdke> Burgwork, not that I know of
[09:06] <mdke> trappist, and, a patch per document if possible too, so each contact person can check & apply
[09:07] <trappist> at first I just said for file in $(find . -type f ! -whole-name '*/.svn/*'); do perl -pi -e 's/([Bb] )ehaviour/$1ehavior/g' "$file"; done but the results of that sucked.
[09:07] <trappist> mdke: can do that too
[09:07] <mdke> trappist, thanks. Would you remail the patch with those things in mind? I'm just mailing the list now
[09:08] <trappist> sigh.  ok, back to mutt :)
[09:08] <mdke> sorry
[09:13] <Burgwork> mdke, sweet, pdf!
[09:14] <Burgwork> we should be able to munge a good release notes out of the excellent Flight stuff mgalvin has beendoing
[09:17] <trappist> ok I think I sent it again
[09:22] <trappist> cool.  I seem to have somehow fixed kmail.
[09:26] <mdke> Burgwork, the pdfs are pretty rubbish at the moment sadly
[09:26] <mdke> they aren't styled at all
[09:26] <sdquinn> hi all again
[09:26] <sdquinn> meeting in 30min correct?
[09:27] <mdke> holy crap
[09:27] <mdke> did you see mark's email?
[09:27] <sdquinn> saw a bit of it
[09:27] <sdquinn> on [ubuntu-art] ?
[09:27] <mdke> thank god
[09:27] <Burgwork> indeed
[09:28] <Burgwork> great
[09:28] <mdke> trappist, thanks for re-diffing
[09:29] <trappist> np
[09:29] <trappist> who is this mark shuttleworth bozo talking about delaying dapper?
[09:29] <jjesse> the guy in charge of ubuntu
[09:29] <sdquinn> aaaaah
[09:29] <sdquinn> "I'm writing to propose a six week delay in the release date of Dapper,"
[09:29] <trappist> I know, kidding ;)
[09:29] <sdquinn> i missed that part. :(
[09:30] <trappist> I have mixed feelings about that
[09:30] <mdke> that would be a good thing. I think we would have the same string freeze for docs though, myself
[09:30] <trappist> I lean toward delaying it, but I don't think my vote counts yet
[09:31] <trappist> there's something to be said for the "when it's done" release cycle philosophy, but I don't like the way it works in debian.
[09:31] <mdke> well there is a good argument that dapper is special in the context of the ubuntu cycles
[09:32] <trappist> yeah
[09:32] <mdke> may 6 weeks is a little much
[09:32] <jjesse> i wonder how they picked 6 weeks?
[09:32] <jjesse> why not just a month
[09:33] <trappist> from browsing lists and hanging out on the various channels I get the feeling we've got a really good pace going and that with a little more time we could put out a significantly better release
[10:11] <LaserJock> so what would that mean for the docs?
[10:12] <mdke> we'll have to wait an see
[10:12] <mdke> I would say, string freeze stays the same, more time for translation
[10:12] <LaserJock> hmm
[10:12] <mdke> or moves slightly
[10:12] <mdke> there is a lot of stuff to get translated this time, and the docs are pretty much nearly ready
[10:13] <LaserJock> except the Packaging Guide
[10:13] <mdke> haha
[10:13] <mdke> is it in bad shape?
[10:13] <LaserJock> I'm getting pretty concerned
[10:13] <mdke> how come?
[10:13] <LaserJock> well, one of the problems is I need patches and review from the developer community but they are working hard on developing 
[10:15] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what it is going to look like by string freeze
[10:15] <mdke> well don't worry
[10:15] <mdke> perfection is impossible
[10:15] <LaserJock> yeah, but sorta complete would be nice
[10:16] <mdke> do what you can, no worries. Shall we call on the devs in a more formal way?
[10:16] <LaserJock> It also looks like the Ubuntu Developer's Reference that Diziet was going to do is deferred
[10:16] <LaserJock> mdke: not yet, I think most of the devs that would have an interest know, but I can push a little harder
[10:17] <LaserJock> some of it is me just setting aside a block of time to work on it
[10:17] <mdke> sure
[10:17] <LaserJock> my research advisor is pushing me a bit at the moment
[10:17] <trappist> I'll do what I can with the packaging guide, but having never made a .deb it'll probably be all word nazi stuff.
[10:18] <LaserJock> anyway, it is pretty much my top priority right now so I hope to get some major work done soon
[10:18] <mdke> yay, don't let it stress ya though
[10:18] <LaserJock> trappist: well, I'll call on your expertise after we have stuff pretty set
[10:19] <trappist> LaserJock: probably a good idea
[10:19] <trappist> anything anybody can tell me about what needs the iron grammar fist will be helpful
[10:19] <LaserJock> trappist: I wouldn't want to waste your time on something that I'm just going to screw up ;-)
[10:19] <trappist> right :)
[10:21] <LaserJock> mdke: well I need the stress to get motivated. Unfortunately, university has taught me some bad habits.
[10:21] <mdke> ok, stress out!
[10:21] <LaserJock> mdke: but I have been totally committed to this doc and I hate to have it not be in Dapper
[10:23] <trappist> LaserJock: maybe we'll all luck out and get another six weeks
[10:23] <mdke> you can do it :)
[10:23] <LaserJock> mdke: will the packaging guide be translated? how would that work?
[10:24] <mdke> LaserJock, if it's done in time, sure. It will get translated in rosetta
[10:25] <LaserJock> I don't know anything about translations so sorry for the stupid questions. Where will the translations go? Are they a part of the ubuntu-docs package?
[10:26] <mdke> yes
[10:26] <mdke> questions are fine :)
[10:28] <Burgwork> I think translations become part of the language packs
[10:29] <LaserJock> so the translations for all the packages for a given language that is translated are put in the lang pack. Those must be huge.
[10:30] <mdke> Burgwork, no, they are in ubuntu-docs
[10:30] <Burgwork> oh
[10:42] <mdke> Burgwork, http://doc.ubuntu.com/test
[10:42] <mdke> we need to sort out proper styling for the admonitions, most importantly of all
[10:42] <mdke> I might try and steal some of brent's stuff for GNOME
[10:43] <mdke> then add some brown or something
[10:43] <mdke> -> bed
[10:43] <Burgwork> mdke, not bad, at least they work
[10:43] <mdke> yeah
[10:44] <robotgeek> night mdke 
[10:44] <mdke> night
[10:46] <LaserJock> good night mdke