[12:08] <mkrufky> LaserJock_away: i know you're not around -- my time was scarce today... Hopefully I'll have time early next week, and I'll read the motu wiki etc.... so i can upload that php5-mssql package
[12:08] <mkrufky> LaserJock_away: thanks for the tip
[12:09] <mkrufky> bye all
[12:10] <tseng> nice, delay hits osnews
[12:10] <tseng> in true form
[12:46] <LaserJock> netzmeister: nabend!
[12:47] <sistpoty> siretart | slomo | dholbach: please check #4749
[12:48] <slomo> sistpoty: XOR or OR? ;)
[12:48] <sistpoty> slomo: OR ;)
[12:48] <slomo> didn't we approve this on the mailinglist already?
[12:49] <sistpoty> slomo: didn't remember it... will check
[12:50] <netzmeister> hi LaserJock
[12:50] <slomo> hi netzmeister
[12:50] <netzmeister> hi slomo
[12:50] <netzmeister> I'm happy Slomo..
[12:50] <netzmeister> my new CPU is running..
[12:50] <slomo> netzmeister: what CPU is this?
[12:51] <netzmeister> AMD X2
[12:51] <netzmeister> 3800+
[12:51] <netzmeister> i've compiled a SMP Kernel..
[12:51] <slomo> why did you compile your own kernel? :) the packaged ones already have SMP support
[12:51] <netzmeister> thats very funny.. two "make" processes at the same time..
[12:51] <sistpoty> slomo: you're right... just found it... sorry for the noise ;)
[12:52] <slomo> sistpoty: ok, just close the bug and upload :)
[12:52] <sistpoty> slomo: it should be synced :/
[12:52] <netzmeister> slomo:  Yes, but i have the kernel "angepasst" on my hardware. ;-)
[12:52] <netzmeister> "on" or "to".. hmm?
[12:52] <slomo> sistpoty: upload a fakesync... build1... i saw some people doing this lately...
[12:53] <slomo> sistpoty: or change -X to -(X-1)ubuntu1
[12:54] <sistpoty> slomo: do we have a statement from matt or colin about this?
[12:54] <slomo> netzmeister: customized for your hardware probably :) but does this really improve something? do you have some numbers? :)
[12:54] <slomo> sistpoty: nope... but pitti does the build1 uploads and dholbach told me that -(X-1)ubuntu1 + sync request would be fine
[12:56] <sistpoty> slomo: ok, will do... but I'll also forward this to the ML, as there are *many* sync requests which we can upload then
[12:56] <netzmeister> slomo:  not really.. but the compile time for the kernel is 50% less as before..
[12:56] <slomo> sistpoty: mine are already uploaded as -(X-1)ubuntu1 (at least the ones that matter)
[01:00] <siretart> sistpoty: just fakesync it
[01:00] <sistpoty> siretart: ok, will do
[01:01] <crimsun> I love the term "fakesync"
[01:03] <siretart> crimsun: I hate it, because it should better not be necessary :(
[01:03] <LaserJock> why is it necessary?
[01:04] <siretart> syncs havn't been processed since the switch to launchpad
[01:04] <LaserJock> so are we giving up on it then?
[01:04] <LaserJock> for right now
[01:04] <crimsun> well if it continues this way, we may not have a choice but to fakesync
[01:05] <LaserJock> hmm, but then NEW is still stuck
[01:05] <LaserJock> that sounds like a mess
[01:05] <slomo> LaserJock: NEW is processed again since ~2 weeks
[01:05] <siretart> NEW is processed quite regularily
[01:06] <slomo> siretart: we approved dosemu already at the mailinglist :) no need to approve it again
[01:06] <LaserJock> not NEW syncs ;-)
[01:06] <sistpoty> hm... I tried to get an answer on ETA for syncs on #lp tonite, but daf didn't even know syncs weren't processed
[01:06] <siretart> I uploaded a NEW package yesterday, it was processed through new in a few hours. THATS service :)
[01:06] <slomo> LaserJock: fakesync the NEW packages :)
[01:07] <LaserJock> hmmm
[01:07] <LaserJock> one of the packages is one I maintain in Debian
[01:08] <LaserJock> I guess if syncs aren't going to be done any time soon I could fakesync it
[01:09] <LaserJock> it just seems like a bad solution. but I don't know what else we can do
[01:12] <sistpoty> should we fakesync as -XbuildY or -(X-1)ubuntuY?
[01:12] <Erlang> netzmeister: you are the guy packaging Code::Blocks right?
[01:13] <slomo> sistpoty: -Xbuild1 should be better as this would be automatically synced later
[01:14] <sistpoty> slomo: ok
[01:15] <sistpoty> slomo: if an ubuntu-specific version is already present in the archives, will a -XbuildY override the ubuntu changes for next merges?
[01:15] <siretart> sistpoty: unless you need local (ubuntu specific) changes. in that case it isn't a sync anymore, but an 'normal' upload
[01:16] <siretart> sistpoty: the autosync mechanism won't sync an old version over if and only if it contains the string 'ubuntu' in the version
[01:16] <slomo> sistpoty: yes
[01:16] <sistpoty> ah... good, so that's the only magic included in there :)
[01:16] <siretart> right
[01:17] <siretart> but, the autosync script was running on dak. I can imagine that it hasn't been ported to soyuz yet.
[01:17] <siretart> but anyway, this isn't a problem before dapper+1
[01:26] <LaserJock> hi ajmitch
[01:46] <slomo> sistpoty: please use the -v parameter for debuild/dpkg-buildpackage so all new changelog entries get included with the changes file
[01:46] <sistpoty> slomo: hm? what am I missing?
[01:47] <sistpoty> slomo: ah, k... thx
[01:47] <slomo> np :)
[01:47] <Erlang> slomo: is it mandatory for Ubuntu packages?
[01:49] <slomo> Erlang: only when your upload includes more than one new version... but that's the same for debian too (although you have only one new version per upload in general but for an exception look at gstreamer0.10)
[01:49] <sistpoty> slomo: sorry, still don't get it... what do I need to have all changelog entries included in the newer version? (I'm just apt-get sourcing the plain debian version and adding a changelog entry to it)
[01:53] <minghua> sistpoty: user -v $old-version-number-for-ubuntu, I suppose
[01:53] <minghua> sistpoty: in your dpkg-buildpackage or debuild command
[01:53] <sistpoty> minghua, slomo: thx... just found that out :)
[01:54] <slomo> sistpoty: but be carefull and don't spam -changes will the complete changelog from the beginning :)
[01:54] <slomo> sistpoty: sometimes -v does funny things
[01:54] <sistpoty> slomo: I cat *changes everytime after signing (and most of the time before signing as well, silly paranoia that is *g*)
[01:55] <Erlang> slomo: oooh :| that means what I have in Debian NEW might get rejected AGAIN
[01:55] <slomo> sistpoty: hm, i sign while building the source package... afterwards pbuilder on exactly that signed dsc and then upload when everything is fine :)
[01:56] <slomo> Erlang: don't worry, the ftp-master don't look at such things normally... most of the time wrong debian/copyright is the reason for REJECTED ;)
[01:58] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm not seeing why -v needs to be used
[01:58] <Erlang> slomo: that was indeed the reason last time.  I hope what you say is true since NEW processing has been a bit long for me.
[01:58] <slomo> LaserJock: to get a complete changelog of things on changes... and the changelog function in launchpad seems to depend on it too
[01:58] <slomo> Erlang: which package is it?
[01:59] <Erlang> erlang 10.b.9-2
[01:59] <sistpoty> LaserJock: just try it with different versions and take a look at the .changes file ;)
[01:59] <sistpoty> LaserJock: (i.e. with different versions after -v)
[01:59] <slomo> Erlang: and you missed a copyright holder last time? or what was wrong? :)
[02:00] <Erlang> slomo: yes I missed 2 applications that were GPL.  The rest of the thing is under Erlang Public License.
[02:01] <slomo> Erlang: happened to me with nemerle too ;)
[02:02] <LaserJock> so should I always do -v or should I only do it when I need to include more than the lasted changelog entry?
[02:02] <slomo> LaserJock: only when more than the latest changelog entry is new
[02:03] <LaserJock> slomo: ok, that makes sense.
[02:04] <LaserJock> raphink: ahh, you got it?
[02:05] <raphink> LaserJock: didn't buy it yet for read, but the deal is made, just have to get the money
[02:05] <raphink> and it's already installed as double boot panther/kubuntu dapper
[02:06] <raphink> :)
[02:06] <LaserJock> lucky :(
[02:07] <raphink> heh
[02:07] <raphink> for such a price I couldn't refuse ;)
[02:07] <raphink> got this powerbook for 500
[02:07] <raphink> :)
[02:07] <raphink> 1GHz/768 RAM/60GB HD/15" screen
[02:07] <raphink> I think it's rather good
[02:08] <raphink> the keyboard is qwerty/arabic but I don' tmind since I never look at my keyboard ;)
[02:12] <bmonty> hi everyone
[02:12] <sistpoty> hi bmonty
[02:13] <slomo> hi bmonty
[02:14] <LaserJock> hi bmonty
[02:14] <bmonty> hey sistpoty, slomo, and LaserJock!
[02:17] <bmonty> so we are uploading our own sync requests now?
[02:17] <sistpoty> bmonty: yep
[02:17] <crimsun> I am totally uploading a new kernel. Oh wait...
[02:17] <bmonty> cool, I can clear my list now :)
[02:17] <bmonty> crimsun: :)
[02:17] <LaserJock> ok, well now how was this decided?
[02:18] <LaserJock> this came up before and there was quite a bit of opposition at that time. Have we really decided to do that?
[02:19] <crimsun> I suppose ultimately our uvf/ff exception team is the authority
[02:19] <sistpoty> LaserJock: slomo and siretart proposed it at 11.53 (utc) here
[02:21] <bmonty> if I already requested the sync from elmo and I upload it myself, do I need to notify elmo that happened?
[02:21] <sistpoty> hm... no idea?
[02:22] <slomo> i guess that would mean even more work for him...
[02:22] <slomo> now he would try to sync, see that we have a newer version and forget about it
[02:22] <crimsun> bmonty: no, it'll just reject, and he'll frown, but there's no need to burden him even more)
[02:24] <bmonty> ok, as long as I'm not the only MOTU he is frowning at :)
[02:25] <LaserJock> bmonty: +1
[02:26] <netzmeister> re
[02:27] <Erlang> netzmeister: you are the guy packaging Code::Blocks right?
[02:30] <bmonty> is there a standard changelog entry that we would like to use to indicate a manual sync?
[02:31] <bmonty> somethine like "this is a sync, See Malone XXXXX for UVF approval."
[02:31] <sistpoty> bmonty: none that I know of... I'm using "Fakesync newer debian version"
[02:32] <LaserJock> yeah, Fakesync sounds much more Dapper-like ;-)
[02:33] <sistpoty> maybe I should give some funny quotes in the changelog instead *g*
[02:34] <slomo> just use whatever you want as long as a human can understand that it's a fakesync and no other changes were done :)
[02:34] <slomo> but i guess for UVF exceptions the malone bug number would be nice... siretart?
[02:35] <bmonty> sistpoty: your note about using "-v" only applies if there is an existing -buildY or -ubuntuY version, right?
[02:35] <sistpoty> bmonty: no... it applies every time, when there are debian versions "skipped" in ubuntu
[02:36] <sistpoty> bmonty: i.e. if you have 3 changelog entries in the debian version, that aren't in the ubuntu version, you'll need to use -v for these three versions
[02:36] <sistpoty> -v to have these versions in the changes-file even
[02:36] <bmonty> sistpoty: ok, makes sense
[02:42] <LaserJock> dang, the Dapper push back email from Mark is getting one of the most positive threads on ubuntuforums I've seen in a while
[02:44] <crimsun> 6 weeks, eh?
[02:44] <dolson> that wouldn't extend FF by 6 weeks too, would it?
[02:44] <LaserJock> I doubt it
[02:45] <Hobbsee> they're going to delay???
[02:45] <dolson> possibly
[02:45] <Hobbsee> eek
[02:46] <dolson> there's a meeting on 14th
[02:46] <Hobbsee> *nods*
[02:47] <dolson> there's two times :)
[02:47] <Hobbsee> oh, tech board
[02:47] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:47] <Hobbsee> beginning or end time, or they're having two meetings?
[02:49] <dolson> two meetings
[02:51] <Erlang> it's like netzmeister doesn't see me...
[02:58] <netzmeister> re
[02:58] <netzmeister> Erlang:  hi..
[02:58] <Erlang> ah
[02:58] <netzmeister> Yes i'm the guy.. ;-)
[02:58] <netzmeister> aehm, i try to package it..
[02:59] <Erlang> I just wanted to ask you if plan to push the package to Debian too?
[03:00] <netzmeister> yes..
[03:01] <netzmeister> Erlang:  why? Would you like to push it?
[03:01] <Erlang> no no.  I'll tranfer you my ITP.
[03:03] <netzmeister> oh, I'm surprised..
[03:03] <netzmeister> thx
[03:20] <minghua> hi jaldhar
[03:20] <minghua> jaldhar: I asked on #scim yesterday, and Fedora's scim maintainer told me that scim shouldn't interfere with skim in KDE
[03:20] <minghua> jaldhar: I wonder what your skim problem is
[03:21] <atie_> hi all
[03:24] <minghua> hello atie_
[03:24] <atie_> if I need to execute bootstrap text file in kde dir before run .configure, how to package it?
[03:24] <atie_> minghua, hi
[03:26] <slomo_> atie_: what do you mean exactly? just calling another command before configure?
[03:27] <atie_> yes... but file extention is text file.
[03:27] <minghua> atie_: what is the bootstrap file written in? shell?
[03:28] <atie_> it's shell script.
[03:29] <slomo_> then call it like a shell script :)
[03:29] <minghua> I suppose "/bin/sh bootstrap" will do, then
[03:29] <slomo_> probably
[03:30] <atie_> is it ok run run cvs commands too within package?
[03:30] <atie_> like these if [ ! -d "admin" ] ; then
[03:30] <atie_>   echo "Please press enter directly for the next question about the password"
[03:30] <atie_>   cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/scim login
[03:30] <atie_>   cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/scim co -P -d admin skim/admin
[03:30] <atie_> fi
[03:30] <shawn_home> I wouldn't do that no
[03:30] <shawn_home> what happens if the network is down? ;)
[03:31] <atie_> shawn_home, that's why I am asking... :)
[03:31] <minghua> atie_: scim-hangul?
[03:31] <atie_> minghua, yes... for skim.
[03:32] <slomo_> atie_: nope that's not ok... why do you need to call cvs? :)
[03:32] <minghua> atie_: I believe scim-hangul 0.2.1 has skim support.  is there any reason you need a cvs version particularly?
[03:33] <minghua> slomo_: it's a very ugly hack in many SCIM module packages
[03:33] <minghua> slomo_: they need some files, but all modules need exactly the same ones
[03:33] <atie_> minghua, no... 0.2.1 has that. author said he made mistake it.
[03:33] <slomo_> minghua: why don't you include them in the package?
[03:33] <minghua> slomo_: so they cvs checkout from another (central) tree when bootstrap it
[03:34] <atie_> but, he has no plan for new release soon with correction.
[03:34] <minghua> slomo_: the released tarball has those files.  that's why I am asking why atie_ needs a cvs version
[03:34] <minghua> atie_: hmm, I see
[03:35] <slomo_> atie_: get a cvs checkout, make a tarball out of it and use that
[03:35] <slomo_> but note it in the version number
[03:35] <slomo_> 1.2.3+cvs20060311 or similar
[03:35] <atie_> slomo_, minghua thank for advice.
[03:36] <slomo_> atie_: but don't put the cvs checkout into a tarball... export it or run make dist in it or whatever :)
[03:36] <atie_> I will talk author before using cvs version, to check his opinion.
[03:36] <atie_> slomo_, ok.
[03:38] <Erlang> netzmeister: The switch worked.  The ITP is yours now.
[03:38] <Erlang> I'm pretty happy not to have anything to do with C::B anymore.
[03:38] <netzmeister> okay. thx Erlang..
[03:38] <netzmeister> why?
[03:38] <slomo_> Erlang: hehe i can understand you... this package is a nightmare :)
[03:38] <netzmeister> hrhr
[03:38] <netzmeister> yes it is..
[03:38] <jaldhar> minghua: thanks for asking.  I plan to look at fedora and suse's skim packages this weekend and see if we are doing something wrong
[03:39] <minghua> jaldhar: oh great
[03:39] <atie_> could someone sync for 33163? It had approval.
[03:40] <Erlang> netzmeister: I chose C::B has a my first true Debian package.  It was a very good learning tool (especially before it was autotooled).  I've never really used C::B.
[03:41] <minghua> atie_: just FYI:  I had planned to work on skim support for SCIM modules for dapper+1, but if you want to get it done for dapper, then by all means go ahead
[03:41] <netzmeister> Erlang:  ah okay.. is use it.. and sometimes i help  the developer to fix bugs..
[03:42] <Erlang> Then you'll certainly be useful as the packager.
[03:42] <atie_> minghua, current scim-hangul is ok with kubuntu. so I think I don't need to bring it for dapper if plan sets for dapper+1.
[03:43] <minghua> atie_: if you don't change scim-hangul in ubuntu, I can assure you that I'll work on scim-hangul first
[03:43] <atie_> minghua, I don't want to have two scim-hangul for ubuntu and debian. :)
[03:44] <minghua> atie_: the patch may even be ready before dapper+1 is open (especially if the six-week delay becomes true)
[03:44] <minghua> atie_: glad to hear that.  I'll add a note about my plan in the bug
[03:44] <atie_> minghua, no problem.
[03:44] <minghua> atie_: the correct skim support is in scim-hangul cvs, right?
[03:45] <atie_> minghua, I will make sure with author and his plan for 0.3.0.
[03:45] <minghua> atie_: cool, please send the information to me or to the bug, thanks
[03:45] <atie_> minghua, I will let you know.
[03:46] <minghua> atie_: after you confirmed with upstream, I mean
[03:46] <atie_> yes.
[03:47] <atie_> minghua, two days ago I sent Dr.Yang mails about scim-hangul situation. :)
[03:48] <minghua> atie_: Yooseong Yang?  Hmm, I probably should send him a mail as well...
[03:49] <atie_> minghua, yes... he knew our improvement for scim-hangul in dapper.
[03:54] <netzmeister> Welcome Back LaserJock  ;-)
[03:56] <LaserJock> danke netzmeister
[03:57] <netzmeister> ;-)
[03:58] <ajmitch> hi
[04:04] <atie_> minghua, scim-hangul 0.2.2 will be released for packaging within 2 days. ^^
[04:07] <minghua> atie_: yay
[04:08] <sistpoty> atie_: just about to sync malone: #33163
[04:09] <atie_> sistpoty, yes?
[04:09] <sistpoty> atie_: yep... (will upload after test-building)
[04:09] <atie_> minghua, I'll create a report for it once I will receive mail from author.
[04:10] <atie_> sistpoty, thank you so much. :)
[04:10] <minghua> atie_: great, thanks for contacting upstream
[04:10] <sistpoty> thanks for figuring this atie_ ;)
[04:13] <sistpoty> gna... -v doesn't produce the right thing with this :/
[04:14] <sistpoty> dpkg-buildpackage -v even
[04:15] <sistpoty> atie_: uploaded... will you care for closing the bugs, once the package has been built?
[04:15] <atie_> sistpoty, sure. :)
[04:16] <sistpoty> atie_: thx
[04:30] <sistpoty> atie_: sorry, ttf-alee is in main... just got a rejected from LP :(
[04:31] <atie_> sistpoty, no it's in universe.
[04:31] <atie_> sistpoty, let me double check.
[04:32] <minghua> atie_: in main here
[04:32] <slomo_> at least the sources are in main
[04:32] <atie_> oh no... what is solution?
[04:33] <sistpoty> atie_: ask s.o. with main privs (e.g. slomo_) to upload the sync? ;)
[04:33] <slomo_> depends... what were the changes? :)
[04:33] <sistpoty> slomo_: malone 33163
[04:33] <Ubugtu> malone bug 33163 in ttf-alee "UVF Exception: ttf-alee 6.4 -> 7.1" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33163
[04:33] <ajmitch> ah
[04:33] <slomo_> and main is frozen currently for flight5 anyway so this have to wait unless it's really really criticial and someone wants to talk to Mithrandir or infinity
[04:34] <ajmitch> will need mdz/kamion approval for UVF as well
[04:34] <slomo_> yes... that too
[04:34] <atie_> when it moved to main?
[04:34] <minghua> (for flight 5)
[04:34] <sistpoty> hehe, luckily I don't have main privs, so LP will care :)
[04:35] <ajmitch> & if anyone tries to upload to main without getting approval, they have to pay
[04:36] <atie_> slomo_, actullay the report is for https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ttf-alee/+bug/6439
[04:36] <Ubugtu> malone bug 6439 in ttf-alee "font names in ttf-alee 6.2 are changed, but leaves broken links." [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
[04:36] <minghua> ahh, broken defoma hints, I would bet
[04:36] <slomo_> atie_: no doubt this will get in... but let's talk about this again after flight5, ok? :) and please send a mail to kamion/mdz asking for a UVF exception
[04:37] <atie_> slomo_, ok. not a problem.
[04:37] <atie_> slomo_, including you?
[04:37] <slomo_> atie_: yes... and probably the UVF exception malone bug
[04:38] <atie_> slomo_, thx
[04:40] <atie_> sistpoty, you too.
[05:00] <atie_> bye all.
[05:53] <LaserJock> hi minghua
[05:57] <LaserJock> hi tritium
[05:57] <minghua> hi LaserJock
[05:58] <tritium> hi LaserJock
[06:10] <LaserJock> hi G0SUB
[06:11] <G0SUB> LaserJock :)
[06:11] <G0SUB> LaserJock so what have you decided? drop some TeX to accomodate electronics?
[06:11] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:11] <G0SUB> ok
[06:12] <LaserJock> I ended up with ~36 tex source packages
[06:12] <G0SUB> ok
[06:12] <LaserJock> I updated the list at tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/all_list.html
[06:13] <G0SUB> checking
[06:13] <LaserJock> I'm working on getting the Main/Restricted packages out since they are just confusing
[06:13] <minghua> Hmm, I didn't know there is a channel #ubuntu+1
[06:14] <G0SUB> heh
[06:14] <G0SUB> I know, but what's it about?
[06:14] <LaserJock> the transition from breezy to dapper I think
[06:14] <LaserJock> dist-upgrading and what not
[06:15] <minghua> the equivalent of #ubuntu for dapper, it seems
[06:15] <LaserJock> hmm, yeah. maybe that is a better description
[06:15] <G0SUB> i see
[07:10] <LaserJock> I tend to be that way too
[07:10] <minghua> I still see more bugs than I care to report...
[07:11] <Kyral> Week off from school
[07:11] <Kyral> Maybe I can finally get some Ubuntu Hacking done
[07:11] <tritium> minghua: not all of us in there...
[07:11] <LaserJock> hmm, I must have run Gentoo unstable for too long :-)
[07:12] <minghua> to be fair, many of them may disappear after a fresh reinstall
[07:12] <minghua> tritium: I am speaking of a general impression, I didn't mean everyone there
[07:12] <tritium> yep
[07:13] <minghua> I plan to stay at #ubuntu+1 after all
[07:19] <LaserJock> anybody with grep-dctrl experience around?
[07:19] <LaserJock> I'm trying to search for more than one thing
[07:36] <LaserJock> hi bmonty
[07:37] <LaserJock> how's the family?
[07:37] <bmonty> hey LaserJock
[07:37] <bmonty> dunno, I haven't seen them in about a week
[07:37] <bmonty> supposedly they are fine :)
[07:40] <LaserJock> bmonty: away on a trip?
[07:40] <bmonty> LaserJock: I gotta start the little guy on Ubuntu soon though :)
[07:40] <bmonty> yeah
[07:40] <LaserJock> yeah, Dapper+1 should get him membership I think
[07:40] <bmonty> lol
[07:41] <LaserJock> maybe honorary membership ;-)
[07:42] <bmonty> he might be able to make a contribution to edubuntu
[07:42] <LaserJock> sure
[07:42] <LaserJock> get him a keyboard and he should be able to make some IRC contributions
[07:42] <bmonty> he really likes a couple of the xscreensaver offerings :)
[07:43] <bmonty> right now, I think he would only drool on the keyboard......so not much contribution to IRC
[07:43] <LaserJock> hmm, maybe he can be a beta tester for -artwork and -desktop
[07:43] <shawn_home> asdfgh :)
[07:44] <bmonty> LaserJock: definately, but judging from the threads on ubuntu-devel, I think his tastes and the tastes of the ubuntu community in general are drastically different
[07:46] <LaserJock> but maybe better ;-)
[07:46] <bmonty> personally, I'm ok with the new dapper look
[07:47] <LaserJock> the orange is a bit much right now
[07:47] <bmonty> I'm surprised that so many peopl have issue with it
[07:47] <bmonty> the orange isn't that offensive to me, but my color vision isn't perfect so that might be why
[07:50] <LaserJock> well, my only example was from gnome-help and the heading and text are bright orange
[07:53] <bmonty> regardless of the colors, the other visual effects are pretty damn good
[07:53] <bmonty> the scroll bars are very cool looking
[07:54] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:58] <minghua> maybe if there is a little delay like tooltips, I'll like it much better
[07:59] <minghua> actually, I think I should file a bug saying this
[07:59] <bmonty> I like it because I have confirmation that the mouse pointer is in the correct location
[08:10] <bmonty> good night everyone
[08:47] <zakame> hi all from manila!
[08:52] <siretart> morning
[09:02] <ohnett> so will dapper be delayed, or is it just speculation?
[09:02] <siretart> ohnett: I just read the announcement
[09:04] <ohnett> btw, will dapper feature an xgl-powered desktop by default?
[09:04] <siretart> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-March/000094.html
[09:04] <siretart> ohnett: no way
[09:04] <siretart> xgl won't be in any case in main, which is a prequisite for being installed by default
[09:04] <ohnett> siretart: but will it be trivial to install xgl and use it with gnome and kde?
[09:05] <siretart> ohnett: it is quite trivial right now. I don't expect this to change for dapper.
[09:06] <siretart> it is just not mature enough on many graphic drivers
[09:06] <ohnett> siretart: will i need to install a modified version of kde/gnome?
[09:06] <ohnett> siretart: right
[09:06] <zakame> dolson: rock on! :D
[09:06] <dolson> zakame: what
[09:06] <ohnett> siretart: ... or is it more like an add-on?
[09:07] <siretart> ohnett: please read the initial announcement for instructions how to use/enable it: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-February/000079.html
[09:08] <dolson> zakame: what did I do??
[09:08] <ohnett> siretart: thank you
[09:09] <zakame> dolson: your becoming a member, just read my email (at Manila now for class)
[09:09] <siretart> ohnett: oh yes, and if you are interested in the development of ubuntu (or the sister distros xubuntu, edubuntu and kubuntu), it is a great idea to subscribe to ubuntu-devel-announce. it is a quite low traffic mailing list
[09:09] <dolson> zakame: oh, lol. yeah, thanks :)
[09:09] <siretart> and dolson will be a motu soon, I'm sure
[09:09] <siretart> :)
[09:09] <zakame> siretart++
[09:10] <dolson> that's what everyone keeps telling me
[09:10] <dolson> I just barely got accepted for membership though
[09:10] <zakame> ooh town hall meeting
[09:10] <ohnett> right now?
[09:11] <zakame> no not now
[09:11] <dolson> lol
[09:11] <siretart> on feb 14
[09:11] <dolson> March you mean?
[09:11] <ohnett> oh
[09:11] <ohnett> :)
[09:11] <ohnett> i thought i lost it
[09:11] <ohnett> :))
[09:11] <ohnett> yes, march
[09:22] <ohnett> is it safe enough by now to install dapper on my box and gradually update it until the official arrives?
[09:22] <dolson> ohnett: I'm running it.. seems safe to me. but YMMV
[09:22] <ohnett> (considering that i don't want to experiment too much with it)
[09:24] <ohnett> if i use xgl and get into problems, will it be easy to simply undo all changes (uninstall)?
[09:24] <ohnett> (in dapper)
[09:24] <dolson> to undo Xgl, yes
[09:24] <dolson> to revert to Breezy... not gonna be easy
[09:24] <ohnett> no, not to breezy
[09:25] <ohnett> dolson: so you are planning to keep on updating until the official arrives?
[09:25] <dolson> the way I used Xgl was to edit gdm.conf-custom, and to revert, you just delete that file or rename it or whatever
[09:25] <dolson> I update occasionally, whenever I feel like it
[09:26] <ohnett> any idea when the new flight cd is supposed to be released?
[09:27] <dolson> no idea... I suppose it'll depend a bit on the outcome of Tuesday's meetings, but I don't know. I'm not in the know for dev stuff
[09:36] <siretart> ohnett: my personal impression of current dapper is that it is pretty usable. since weeks. there are still some annoying bugs though, but they are being tracked
[09:36] <siretart> ohnett: anyway, if you want to help developing, it is a very good idea to actually use what you develop. and backups are ALWAYS a good idea
[09:38] <siretart> http://powerlineblog.com/archives/elmo.jpg
[09:39] <dolson> THAT'S why dssi hasn't been sync'd yet!
[09:59] <netzmeister> ahh
[10:00] <netzmeister> i'm tired..
[10:36] <minghua> Hmm...
[10:37] <minghua> ubuntuforums has a poll about the six-week delay, currenly with 309:28 in favor of delay
[10:38] <Lathiat> wondering what the delay is?
[10:38] <Lathiat> or what the results of that poll is?
[10:41] <minghua> the result of the poll
[10:42] <minghua> "... does ubuntuforums users represent the opinions of the whole user base?"
[10:42] <siretart> I don't think so.
[10:42] <siretart> and I don't hope so
[10:43] <siretart> Lathiat: see marks latest post to -devel-announce
[10:45] <Lathiat> siretart: i saw it, i was tryign to figure out what mingua was wondering ;p
[10:48] <siretart> h. ok
[11:00] <G0SUB> jpatrick
[11:01] <jpatrick> G0SUB: hi
[11:01] <G0SUB> jpatrick heh, I was online :)
[11:01] <jpatrick> I know :P
[11:10] <ohnett> any idea when the new flight cd is supposed to be released?
[11:11] <Mithrandir> ohnett: I released it about ten minutes ago, but it won't be announced before we have it synced to se.archive too, to avoid the DC being hammered.
[11:12] <ohnett> Mithrandir: say, two-three days?
[11:14] <Mithrandir> ohnett: say later today if maswan decides to wake up soon.
[11:14] <ohnett> Mithrandir: thank you :)
[11:15] <Mithrandir> ohnett: anyway, you can get it from cdimage.u.c already, I just won't announce it to the world just yet.
[11:15] <Mithrandir> (and would appreciate if slashdot wasn't told just yet)
[11:16] <Lure> Mithrandir: but I do not see kubuntu there
[11:16] <jpatrick> Lure: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-5/
[11:16] <Lure> jpatrick: not found!
[11:17] <jpatrick> guess we'll just have to wait a while
[11:18] <Mithrandir> Lure: nobody volunteered to test kubuntu and I was utterly busy testing ubuntu.
[11:18] <Mithrandir> Lure: so riddell asked me to postpone it until he had a chance to test it.
[11:18] <ohnett> when will the live and install cd be merged together?
[11:18] <Mithrandir> they won't?
[11:18] <jpatrick> Mithrandir: I think he means Expresso
[11:19] <Lure> Mithrandir: then Flight5 wiki page has to change to reflect this
[11:19] <Mithrandir> jpatrick: espresso is on the flight cd already.
[11:24] <ohnett> when will the live and install cd be merged together?
[11:24] <ohnett> anybody?
[11:25] <Mithrandir> ohnett: they won't.
[11:25] <ohnett> Mithrandir: they were promissing they would
[11:27] <Mithrandir> ohnett: "they"?  I think you're the victim of a misunderstanding.
[11:27] <Mithrandir> the live cd can be used for installations, but it's not going to replace the install cd completely.
[11:29] <ohnett> which one will be shipped for free? "they" said it's less expensive to only send one rather than two and they would very much want to only send one from now one. which one?
[11:29] <ohnett> Mithrandir:
[11:30] <Mithrandir> ohnett: yes, there's talk of just including the live cd in the shipit program, but that doesn't mean the install cd is going away.
[11:30] <ohnett> s/now\ one/now\ on/
[11:30] <Mithrandir> just that it won't be part of shipit
[11:32] <ohnett> Mithrandir: that's nice. so we hope the install cd will be going away as soon as possible (or replaced with an installable dvd).
[11:32] <dolzzzon> I rather like the install CD
[11:33] <Mithrandir> ohnett: a) it won't go away.  b) there already exists an installable dvd
[11:37] <ohnett> dolzzzon: why?
[11:37] <ohnett> dolzzzon: what is the advantage?
[11:38] <Mithrandir> it's much easier to install using d-i than espresso, IMO.  And much better when you're dealing with a server and such
[11:38] <minghua> and I doubt espresso has better i18n support than d-i right now
[11:38] <dolzzzon> ohnett: I've had hardware that did not boot the live CD but took the install CD just fine.
[11:39] <Mithrandir> minghua: it uses d-i as the backend, more or less.
[11:39] <ohnett> Mithrandir: is there any difference between an ubuntu installed from the live cd and an ubuntu installed from the install cd (considering that the absolutely same packages are installed, of course)?
[11:39] <Mithrandir> ohnett: no, there shouldn't be.  Any such disrepancies is a bug.
[11:40] <ohnett> dolzzzon: is there any difference between an ubuntu installed from the live cd and an ubuntu installed from the install cd (considering that the absolutely same packages are installed, of course)?
[11:40] <minghua> Mithrandir: oh thanks.  but I think my argument stands (there are quite a few languages are 100% translated in d-i)
[11:40] <ohnett> dolzzzon: maybe it's just a bug, as it's quite early a feature
[11:40] <ohnett> Mithrandir: then what is the advantage of the install cd over the live one?
[11:40] <dolzzzon> ohnett: if I can't BOOT the Live CD to do the install, how can I FIX the problem once I get the base Ubuntu installed?
[11:41] <ohnett> Mithrandir: doesn't this mean "they" will eventually drop the install cd?
[11:41] <Mithrandir> ohnett: it's much easier to use when you don't have a mouse or don't have a monitor?
[11:41] <Mithrandir> ohnett: who are those "they" you keep talking about?
[11:41] <dolzzzon> ohnett: I'm talking about Breezy's Live CD. it did not boot on hardware the the installer worked on
[11:41] <ohnett> Mithrandir: or, if not, what will encourage them not to?
[11:41] <dolzzzon> I don't understand why we want to eliminate a text-based install. it's preferred by many people
[11:42] <Mithrandir> ohnett: why?  The live installer won't support serial installs for instance.  It probably won't support netboot installs.  It doesn't do LVM, doesn't do lots of funky stuff which d-i does.
[11:42] <Mithrandir> ohnett: espresso is an installer which aims to work for 90% of people, not solve every use case possible.
[11:42] <dolzzzon> the way I look at it, the Live CD installer is good for newbies
[11:43] <dolzzzon> minghua: yes, by "we" I meant ohnett's "they" :)
[11:43] <Mithrandir> ohnett: to make it completely clear:  Ubuntu will _not_ drop the regular install CD in the foreseeable future.
[11:43] <ohnett> Mithrandir: it's not you or anybody here that decides for ubuntu. it's a collective entity (catalysed by its sabdfl). that's whom i call "they". "they" is the people usually deciding in *any* democracy, which makes the *individual* never be able to decide.
[11:44] <minghua> dolzzzon: oh.  I was hoping you know who this mysterious "they" are.  ;-)
[11:44] <Mithrandir> ohnett: dude, don't you think Mark's going to listen to his engineers?  He's not a fool.
[11:44] <dolzzzon> ohnett: where did "they" say that they wanted to eliminate the d-i CD?
[11:45] <ohnett> Mithrandir: why should all live cd's be worse than knoppix all the time?
[11:45] <Mithrandir> ohnett: huh?
[11:45] <dolzzzon> lol, where did that come from?
[11:45] <Mithrandir> what's worse about Ubuntu's live CD than knoppix?
[11:49] <ohnett> minghua, dolzzzon: no, folks, it's all just a matter of english grammar, so let's not make it a political issue. "they say bush's's bigger than saddam's" <-- who's "they" in here? the guys that (were) scrood (by) both? no, it's just an impersonal pronoun. it actually means "it is said".
[11:49] <ohnett> Mithrandir: why would mark (pbuh) be fool if listening to his engineers?
[11:52] <sladen> ohnett: I think Mithrandir said the opposite
[11:54] <sladen> ohnett: relax, the install-cd will be there (as will the much more useful netinst CDs), just that shipit will probably switch to espresso+livecd combo cds
[11:57] <ohnett> dolzzzon: "Mithrandir ohnett: dude, don't you think Mark's going to listen to his engineers?  He's not a fool."
[11:57] <dolzzzon> right...
[11:58] <dolzzzon> Mithrandir is saying that Mark WILL listen to his engineers (some of them are in here, you know) because he is not a fool..
[12:01] <jpatrick> dolzzzon: congrats on membership
[12:01] <dolzzzon> thanks jpatrick :D
[12:03] <ohnett> dolzzzon: so, right, Mithrandir never said that. i simply saw "do" instead of "don't"
[12:03] <ohnett> Mithrandir: sorry.
[12:03] <ohnett> sladen: right :)
[12:03] <ohnett> sladen: is flight 5 also installable?
[12:04] <dolzzzon> lol
[12:04] <ohnett> i have been disconnected
[12:05] <ohnett> is somebody answered in the meantime, please paste it again
[12:05] <sladen> you got kicked for flooding
[12:05] <ohnett> sladen: really?!?
[12:05] <jpatrick> "[12:04:06]  <dolzzzon> lol"
[12:06] <ohnett> sladen: i wasn't flooding. are you kidding?
[12:06] <dolzzzon> <-- ohnett has quit (Excess Flood)
[12:06] <ohnett> maybe it's my ip class, it can't be my nick
[12:06] <ohnett> or my ip
[12:07] <ohnett> dolzzzon, sladen, jpatrick, Mithrandir: is the dapper flight 5 live cd also installable?
[12:08] <ohnett> dolzzzon, sladen, jpatrick, Mithrandir: (y/n/dune) :)
[12:08] <dolzzzon> I would think it has the espresso installer on it
[12:08] <dolzzzon> I haven't tried it
[12:09] <sladen> ohnett: about 12hours
[12:10] <ohnett> sladen: i don't understand. how is "about 12 hours" answering my "is the dapper flight 5 live cd also installable?"?!
[12:19] <jpatrick> hey Gloubiboulga
[12:19] <Gloubiboulga> hi jpatrick
[12:19] <jpatrick> any word on the netswitch thingys?
[12:20] <Gloubiboulga> I think the problem is the libswitch package, not netswitch
[12:20] <sladen> ohnett: oh sorry.  Yes, it has espresso on it
[12:20] <Gloubiboulga> jpatrick, Tonio should have sent a mail to Kamion to ask him details
[12:21] <sladen> Mithrandir: what's the setup with things like 'sshd' on the livecd (which was shipped, but not installed on the install cd);  are they populated into the apt-cache
[12:21] <jpatrick> Gloubiboulga: okay
[12:24] <Mithrandir> sladen: apt-get update is run on the live cd, yes.
[12:25] <Mithrandir> ohnett: yes, flight 5 is installable.
[12:25] <sladen> Mithrandir: if I do an espresso install without net connectivity, is sshd available to be installed
[12:25] <Mithrandir> sladen: it's not on the CD, no.
[12:25] <Mithrandir> sladen: so we don't have the stuff in ship available on the live cd, no
[12:26] <sladen> Mithrandir: ta, that's what I was after
[12:27] <sladen> Mithrandir: any idea how many packages that currently is
[12:28] <Mithrandir> sladen: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/dapper/ship
[12:31] <dolzzzon> minghua: I think it was you earlier who wondered why the poll on UF was so much in favor of delay, and I think it's largely to do with the misconception that Ubuntu devs will work on Xgl... that's what my theory is anyhow
[12:32] <minghua> dolzzzon: yes, it was me.  I don't have a good guess, but seeing people talking about having networkmanage (name?) 0.6 on forums, I tend to agree with you
[12:33] <ohnett> Mithrandir: i never downloaded the flight 4 live, so please tell me: is it installable, too?
[12:33] <Mithrandir> ohnett: yes.
[12:33] <Mithrandir> not that I'd recommend installing flight 4 now that 5 is out
[12:35] <tseng> good morning Mithrandir
[12:36] <Mithrandir> hiya tseng
[12:38] <slomo_> *yawn* hi everybody :)
[12:41] <jpatrick> dolzzzon: Ubuntu Packaging Guide?
[12:41] <dolzzzon> yeah
[12:41] <jpatrick> wrote bits of that
[12:42] <dolzzzon> I haven't looked it over much yet, but I think it will be invaluable to me and others I encourage to get interested in packaing
[12:42] <dolzzzon> *packaging
[12:43] <ohnett> Mithrandir: of course i'll install flight 5 :). thanks. (btw, any idea how many more flights until final?)
[12:43] <dolzzzon> I *really* like Yelp and the docs included in Ubuntu
[12:45] <Mithrandir> ohnett: probably no more, since BetaReleas is March 23rd.
[12:46] <ohnett> Mithrandir: maybe the beta release will be later than 23, now that dapper is delayed, right?
[12:46] <minghua> ohnett: that's not decided yet
[12:47] <minghua> (whether dapper will be delay or not)
[12:48] <Mithrandir> ohnett: it's not delayed, there's a proposal for a delay.  In which case I suspect we'll see two more flight.
[12:48] <ohnett> minghua: (got it)
[12:48] <ohnett> how many betas are there supposed to be?
[12:48] <ohnett> how many betas are supposed to be there?
[12:49] <ohnett> or expected
[12:49] <Mithrandir> ohnett: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[12:51] <ohnett> Mithrandir: thank you
[01:28] <kelmo_lap> hi siretart
[01:44] <siretart> kelmo_lap: hey there! :)
[01:44] <tseng> lucas is the ruby guy, right?
[01:45] <Lathiat> yeh
[01:46] <tseng> oh i figured it outmyself with some gdb love
[01:46] <tseng> ruby segfaulting all over the place on my linode
[01:46] <Lathiat> what waas the cause?
[01:46] <tseng> uml doesnt support tls, a glibc upgrade put the tls libs back
[01:46] <Lathiat> ah
[01:46] <tseng> gdb++
[01:47] <Lathiat> i got my copy of programming ruby (dave thomas) and agile web development with rails a couple days ago
[01:47] <tseng> great books
[01:47] <Lathiat> and i wrote some new domain management scripts for bur.st in ruby
[01:47] <Lathiat> that go edit config files etc
[01:47] <Lathiat> was good
[01:47] <tseng> i want the rails cookbook
[01:48] <Lathiat> the programming rails book is a good quick reference if nothing else
[01:48] <Lathiat> has nie good descriptiosn of all the classes and methods easy to find
[01:48] <Lathiat> ignoring the rest of it :)
[01:48] <tseng> hm why
[01:48] <Lathiat> oh i plan to go through it, just so far its been a good quick ref ;p
[01:49] <tseng> now i can work on typo with out ever other page crashing, this is nice
[01:49] <Lathiat> hehe
[01:50] <Lathiat> mm there are absolutely no linodes free
[01:50] <Lathiat> heh
[01:50] <tseng> really?
[01:51] <Lathiat> yeh
[01:51] <Lathiat> more availabel in  4 days apparently
[01:51] <Lathiat> what do you find it like?
[01:51] <Lathiat> which one have you got?
[01:51] <Lathiat> can you tell me what ping you get to 202.72.150.106 ?
[01:51] <tseng> i have a 160
[01:52] <tseng> Lathiat: nothing
[01:52] <Lathiat> hrm
[01:52] <Lathiat> thats odd
[01:53] <Lathiat> hrm it is indeed not repsonding
[01:53] <Lathiat> oh well
[01:53] <Lathiat> 203.30.47.18 ?
[01:54] <kelmo_lap> siretart, i firmly believe that to use wpa_sup the driver type must be given by admin, not guessed (like suggested in some reports), at least until wifi modules on linux stabilize somewhat
[01:54] <Hobbsee> Lathiat: the second gets a response
[01:54] <kelmo_lap> siretart, in furute, i'd would think it may be okay to fall back to wext
[01:54] <kelmo_lap> future*
[01:54] <Hobbsee> Lathiat: 9% packet loss
[01:55] <Hobbsee> well, drops 1 packet, that's all
[01:55] <siretart> kelmo_lap: you mean you see a relaistic chance that madwifi-ng could implement wext19 fully?
[01:55] <kelmo_lap> haha, not anytime soon unfortunately
[01:56] <kelmo_lap> but . . .
[01:56] <siretart> well, I have no objection to fall back to wext. centrinos are quite common nowadays
[01:56] <kelmo_lap> i did use wext when madwifi's own stuff was broken in that regard
[01:56] <siretart> interesting
[01:56] <kelmo_lap> in early days
[01:57] <kelmo_lap> but that was a crude hack
[01:57] <kelmo_lap> ignoring the scanning code in madwifi itself
[01:57] <Lathiat> Hobbsee: rtt?
[01:57] <Hobbsee> Lathiat: this?
[01:57] <Hobbsee> 15 packets transmitted, 14 received, 6% packet loss, time 14011ms
[01:57] <Hobbsee> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 69.821/71.288/74.156/1.192 ms
[01:57] <Lathiat> from a linode?
[01:57] <Hobbsee> dont know what that is...
[01:58] <Lathiat> ok nm
[01:58] <Lathiat> Hobbsee: where do you live?
[01:58] <Hobbsee> Lathiat: sydney, australia
[01:58] <Lathiat> hehe, no wonder :)
[01:58] <Lathiat> <- perth
[01:58] <kelmo_lap> brissie ; )
[01:59] <tseng> Lathiat: 25 packets transmitted, 25 received, 0% packet loss, time 24760ms
[01:59] <tseng> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 247.641/248.023/248.519/0.573 ms
[01:59] <siretart> kelmo_lap: do you already have a solution to the 'quoting' problem?
[01:59] <tseng> from linode
[01:59] <Lathiat> tseng: cheers
[01:59] <kelmo_lap> siretart, well, yeah. if you find this acceptable:
[01:59] <tseng> note linode has 2 data centers
[02:00] <kelmo_lap> siretart, wpa-passphrase plaintext-string // wpa-psk 0102020304a0b0e0f0. . . .
[02:01] <kelmo_lap> siretart, all other input is pretty clear in the sources as to what "type" it is
[02:01] <kelmo_lap> so i quoted accordingly
[02:01] <kelmo_lap> it really just needs some testing / debugging with different configurations
[02:02] <siretart> kelmo_lap: I find that acceptable.
[02:03] <kelmo_lap> siretart, ssid is usually always plain text, but i added a special option of you like to give it as a hex value (not sure if that is absolutely required yet)
[02:03] <kelmo_lap> wpa-ssid // wpa-ssid-hex
[02:04] <siretart> kelmo_lap: for being able to provide something which is even easier to use, I think some configuration/roaming daemon or something would be required anyways. see my recent posts to pkg-wpa-devel
[02:04] <siretart> kelmo_lap: ssid in hex? who is using this weird stuff?
[02:05] <kelmo_lap> siretart, like is said, don't know if it is absolutely required
[02:05] <kelmo_lap> s/is/i
[02:07] <siretart> kelmo_lap: I don't think this is that necessary, for weird and painfull setting the user can revert to a handcrafted wpasupplicant.config anytime
[02:08] <kelmo_lap> siretart, ack
[02:08] <siretart> kelmo_lap: I'd rather like to get our -experimental branch uploaded quickly so we can have our users test that
[02:08] <kelmo_lap> siretart, agreed
[02:09] <kelmo_lap> siretart, and i can prepare something for the kanotix guinea pigs too ; )
[02:09] <kelmo_lap> and some interested madwifi-ers too
[02:09] <siretart> kelmo_lap: I've just committed an a bit polished /etc/default/wpasupplicant  for driver selection and fall back tp wext
[02:10] <siretart> I havn't tested it yet, but I think it should work
[02:10] <kelmo_lap> yes, just have looked at that
[02:10] <kelmo_lap> diff looks good
[02:10] <kelmo_lap> DRIVER=$(cat /etc/wpasupplicant.driver)
[02:11] <kelmo_lap> did you wanna make that wpasupplicant.$INTERFACE ?
[02:11] <siretart> err, rather /etc/wpasupplicant.driver.$INTERFACE
[02:11] <kelmo_lap> yeah
[02:11] <kelmo_lap> s.th. like that
[02:12] <siretart> argl, damn typo, I'll fix it
[02:12] <siretart> commited
[02:13] <kelmo_lap> also, think about having a /etc/wpasupplicant folder with this stuff
[02:13] <kelmo_lap> avoiding pollution to /etc
[02:14] <siretart> right. perhaps we should do that
[02:15] <kelmo_lap> it would be similar to the way hostapd package works
[02:18] <kelmo_lap> siretart, right now, preup will exit if conf *or* driver is not given, what are your thoughts?
[02:21] <siretart> kelmo_lap: conf has to be set to activate either mode 1 or 2. if it isn't set, bail out, because we have to assume that the user wants to use mode 3 or the user doesn't want wpasupplicant to be started at all
[02:21] <kelmo_lap> yes
[02:21] <siretart> kelmo_lap: ah, yes, pre-up should fall back to wext as well, agreed
[02:23] <kelmo_lap> siretart, i formly beleive we should suggest setting wpa-driver in all example however
[02:23] <kelmo_lap> firmly*
[02:23] <kelmo_lap> and docs, etc
[02:23] <siretart> agreed. this saves us bugreports
[02:24] <kelmo_lap> but i would sooner fallback to wext, than maintain some deterministic shell code like suggested in some bug reports
[02:26] <siretart> I think a note in README.modes that we fall back to wext is sufficient. lets say that there and only there. the examples should provide some driver
[02:26] <kelmo_lap> agreed
[02:27] <MrFaber> hi all
[02:41] <jaldhar> Just checking...if a debian version is -1 and you need to change the dependencies for Ubuntu does it become -1ubuntu1?
[02:41] <Lathiat> yep
[02:42] <MrFaber> Who is the main fixer for universe packages today? :)
[02:43] <siretart> raphink-pbook: I added you to keyring@tiber.tauware.de, I hope you don't object
[02:43] <raphink-pbook> siretart: sure :)
[02:43] <raphink-pbook> siretart: so I receive the emails to my box?
[02:44] <siretart> raphink-pbook: I hope you have a ~/.forward or ~/.procmailrc on tiber
[02:44] <jpatrick> raphink-pbook: could you run revu-tools on scim-pinyin? (just to triple-check)
[02:44] <raphink-pbook> I do siretart
[02:44] <raphink-pbook> jpatrick: ok
[02:45] <raphink-pbook> jpatrick: running
[02:45] <jaldhar> And if the package is for universe the distribution in debian/changelog is dapper/universe or just universe?
[02:45] <jpatrick> dapper
[02:46] <jpatrick> raphink-pbook: cool, thanks
[02:46] <jaldhar> or just dapper :-)
[02:46] <raphink-pbook> just dapper jaldhar
[02:46] <raphink-pbook> universe will be added automatically (by germinate iirc) to control
[02:47] <raphink-pbook> jpatrick: seems it FTBFS
[02:47] <raphink-pbook> I'll update the pbuilder just in case
[02:47] <raphink-pbook>  ;)
[02:47] <siretart> raphink-pbook: that is done by NEW processing. it is called an 'override'
[02:47] <raphink-pbook> ok
[02:47] <raphink-pbook> :)
[02:48] <jpatrick> raphink-pbook: :)
[02:49] <raphink-pbook> ;)
[02:49] <raphink-pbook> jpatrick: you could run it yourself btw
[02:49] <raphink-pbook> you're a MOTU, so you can get an account on tiber if you want it
[02:49] <jaldhar> aargh and I guess I need to enable universe in my pbuilder chroot
[02:49] <raphink-pbook> jaldhar: sure
[02:49] <raphink-pbook> jaldhar: if you use an apt.config dir you just have to add the universe line, then update your pbuilder with override-config
[02:50] <raphink-pbook> jpatrick: would you like a pbuilder-enabled access?
[02:50] <jpatrick> raphink-pbook: I thought only REVU admins could do that
[02:50] <raphink-pbook> jpatrick: you're mixing two things
[02:50] <raphink-pbook> jpatrick: REVU admins are people with admin rights on the REVU interface
[02:51] <raphink-pbook> revu-tools are bash tools available on tiber
[02:51] <raphink-pbook> so you don't need to a be a REVU admin to launch them, but to be in the pbuilder group on tiber
[02:51] <raphink-pbook> with an ssh access
[02:51] <jpatrick> ok
[02:51] <raphink-pbook> and as a MOTU, you can get an account on tiber so you can run these tools
[02:52] <jpatrick> great, yes please then
[02:54] <MrFaber> Who can fix the loop-aes-source package? :)
[02:55] <kelmo_lap> MrFaber, you! ; )
[02:55] <MrFaber> kelmo_lap, I would
[02:55] <MrFaber> just upload the current debian sid loop-aes package
[02:55] <MrFaber> that works in dapper
[02:55] <MrFaber> a bug is already posted in launchpad
[02:55] <MrFaber> no one hast confirmed
[02:55] <MrFaber> posted it here some days ago
[02:56] <MrFaber> but there was a conference or something like that
[02:56] <MrFaber> or fix it, if it is easy
[02:56] <MrFaber> but the debian package works
[02:56] <MrFaber> in dapper
[03:02] <siretart> kelmo_lap: when do you expect we can upload to experimental?
[03:03] <kelmo_lap> siretart, well, when you are happy really. i expect we can improve the documentation and/or approach as we get feedback
[03:03] <kelmo_lap> if you are keen, go for it ; )
[03:04] <siretart> kelmo_lap: I thought you wanted to provide quoting for the wpa key before uploading?
[03:05] <kelmo_lap> siretart, well, you either choose wpa-passphrase (for plaintext) or wpa-psk for hex key, and the quoting is then done as neccessary
[03:05] <MrFaber> kelmo_lap, so what to do?
[03:05] <kelmo_lap> that is already there, unless i misunderstand you
[03:05] <MrFaber> it is not fixed
[03:05] <siretart> kelmo_lap: ah, great.
[03:06] <MrFaber> there is only a but report
[03:06] <kelmo_lap> and pre-up basically supports everything that wpa_cli can right now
[03:06] <MrFaber> which everyone ignores ;)
[03:06] <siretart> cool
[03:06] <Yagisan> G'day siretart. Was avidemux 2.1.1 ever synced ? I didn't see it in dapper, and just backported marrilats to breezy (I just got bit by the opendml bug - hence the backport)
[03:06] <kelmo_lap> MrFaber, if i used and/or developed ubuntu i may comment more ; )
[03:06] <kelmo_lap> MrFaber, i was here a few days ago, and you were asking the exact same questions
[03:06] <MrFaber> yes, thats what I have said
[03:07] <siretart> Yagisan: was it UVF exception approved?
[03:07] <MrFaber> But nothing changed and release comes nearer every day :)
[03:07] <siretart> Yagisan: no syncs have been done since soyuz yet, afaik
[03:07] <kelmo_lap> MrFaber, so i'd suggest you modify the current debian package, diff it against the ubuntu one, and submit a patch to the BTS
[03:07] <MrFaber> I don't want to bother you but I am frighthen that the bug gets in release
[03:07] <MrFaber> kelmo_lap, I don't know how
[03:07] <kelmo_lap> well, it don't matter to me, i'm not involved in ubuntu's packages ; )
[03:08] <MrFaber> btw. the debian one is 3.1c instead of 3.1b
[03:08] <Yagisan> siretart: checking motu archives now to double check
[03:08] <MrFaber> Who is the involved men and where they are :-D
[03:08] <kelmo_lap> anyway, loop-aes can largely be replaced by dm, afaik
[03:09] <MrFaber> not this discussion again :)
[03:09] <Yagisan> siretart: hmm, not that I can see.  Actually I don't see anything I did a UVF exception report on
[03:10] <siretart> Yagisan: please file a UVF exception report then
[03:11] <Yagisan> siretart: another one ?
[03:12] <siretart> Yagisan: err, sorry if I misunderstood you. which is the bugno then?
[03:16] <Yagisan> siretart. they were posted to the list on Feb 16 - before the switch to lp
[03:18] <tseng> Mithrandir: is espresso good enough to do my laptop test with for flight 5?
[03:19] <Mithrandir> tseng: if you can test with both espresso and d-i, that'd be best, but yes, we're absolutely interested in having espresso tested.
[03:20] <siretart> Yagisan: ah, I see. well, no I don't think anything has been synced yet
[03:20] <Yagisan> siretart: it seems the public list archive scrubbed the UVF reports eg https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000449.html
[03:21] <siretart> kelmo_lap: ok, I'll then do some testing on the package and ask my sponsor to upload it then. ok?
[03:46] <Yagisan> ok siretart. avidemux is now https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/avidemux/+bug/34448
[03:46] <Ubugtu> malone bug 34448 in avidemux "UVF Exception: avidemux 2.1.1" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
[04:06] <siretart> Yagisan: did you really test the new avidemux?
[04:08] <Yagisan> siretart: using it right now (on breezy amd64). Haven't tested i386.
[04:08] <siretart> great :)
[04:08] <Yagisan> siretart: that patch was needed, as without it, the damm thing would not build
[04:09] <Yagisan> siretart: I had a 5.3GB .avi from a tv capture, and 2.0.42 choked and died on it
[04:33] <tseng> Mithrandir: i removed and readded a partition (i couldnt seem to just format it in one step) and espresso is nicely hung
[04:34] <tseng> Mithrandir: im about to xkill if you dont have a magic trick
[04:37] <tseng> Mithrandir: mmm, if i leave it as is the next step lets me do exactly what i wanted.
[04:43] <tseng> Mithrandir: i really like this though
[04:54] <Mithrandir> tseng: ESPRESSO_DEBUG=1 DEBCONF_DEBUG=developer espresso and send /var/log/installer/espresso to a bug report, svp.
[04:58] <freeflying> Yagisan: hi
[05:01] <Yagisan> G'day freeflying
[05:02] <Yagisan> freeflying: so, will you go to the UK ?
[05:02] <freeflying> Yagisan: won't , sue to the damn visa
[05:02] <freeflying> s/sue/due
[05:04] <Yagisan> freeflying: I couldn't go either. 1) programming language, 2) wife's injury
[05:04] <freeflying> Yagisan:  :)
[05:35] <kimatrix> Hi, i have a quastion
[05:36] <kimatrix> i am programming in java for 2 years now, was wondering if i could contribute to the ubuntu project in any way?
[05:37] <Erlang> check the candidate packages list, choose one, package it, upload to REVU ;)
[05:37] <kimatrix> is ther any more info about that, becose i have never done something like this?
[05:38] <Erlang> yes, lemme see
[05:39] <kimatrix> thank you
[05:39] <Erlang> there are some pointers there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Packaging/Tips?highlight=%28MOTU%2FPackages%2FPackaging%29, but you should the Debian New Maintainer Guide, that's what got me started.
[05:40] <kimatrix> gone check the link you gave me
[05:40] <Erlang> But there is all sorts of ways you can contribute: translate, document, bugfix, support new users, etc.  They all count.
[05:40] <jpatrick> code
[05:40] <Erlang> yeah
[05:42] <kimatrix> transalte, document, new users arent mine best points. it should be bugfixes and code
[05:42] <kimatrix> but i am not so cood in c/c++, i am more of a java programmer
[05:42] <Erlang> What I've found fun is trying to find a bug that I can fix but has been neglected and contribute a patch for it.
[05:45] <kimatrix> As i can see 99% is done in c/c++ it doesn't sound very promesing for me :P
[05:46] <Erlang> sometimes the problem is with the rules file of the package or something else, but not in the upstream source...
[05:46] <Erlang> and there are quite a bit of Java libraries in universe
[05:49] <Erlang> but the rules file is related to packaging for Debian/Ubuntu, so you probably need to practice before fixing bugs in other package.
[05:50] <kimatrix> i think so
[05:50] <kimatrix> i am reading the debian Maintainer's Guide
[05:53] <jpatrick> kimatrix: not complete but you might want to see: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[05:53] <kimatrix> jpatrick gona look
[06:07] <jpatrick> raphink-pbook: how do I run this? :s
[06:08] <jpatrick> I keep getting permission denied
[06:08] <raphink-pbook> jpatrick: run what?
[06:08] <jpatrick> revu-report
[06:08] <jpatrick> any revu-* script
[06:09] <raphink-pbook> oh right there's no man on REVU :(
[06:09] <raphink-pbook> hehe
[06:09] <raphink-pbook> well
[06:09] <ajmitch> jpatrick: you're not in the right group?
[06:09] <raphink-pbook> yes he is ajmitch
[06:09] <jpatrick> I'm in pbuilder
[06:09] <raphink-pbook> jpatrick: cd to teh directory where the files you want to review are
[06:09] <jpatrick> pbuilder-dapper build *.dsc works
[06:10] <raphink-pbook> cd /var/revu/revu1-incoming/$package-$version
[06:10] <ajmitch> jpatrick: I saw a sudo warning from you
[06:10] <raphink-pbook> then run revu-report
[06:10] <jpatrick> jpatrick@tiber:/var/revu/revu1-incoming/vtigercrm-0602261945$
[06:10] <raphink-pbook> ajmitch: that's when I tested his account, I had not set the group right
[06:10] <raphink-pbook> ajmitch: my fault sory
[06:10] <ajmitch> ok
[06:10] <ajmitch> does he need to be in the revu group as well?
[06:11] <raphink-pbook> no
[06:11] <raphink-pbook> not that I know
[06:11] <raphink-pbook> hmm
[06:11] <raphink-pbook> let me think ...
[06:11] <raphink-pbook> I'll check :)
[06:11] <ajmitch> he will...
[06:11] <ajmitch> all the dirs are owned by group revu
[06:12] <raphink-pbook> right
[06:12] <raphink-pbook> I'll add him
[06:12] <raphink-pbook> thanks for pointing that ajmitch
[06:12] <ajmitch> :)
[06:14] <jpatrick> explains >> http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/596477
[06:14] <raphink-pbook> jpatrick: try again
[06:15] <raphink-pbook> jpatrick: read this too : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU/REVU-Tools
[06:15] <jpatrick> that's what I was reading from
[06:16] <mat|l> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/blam/+bug/4839 has had a fix for ages, without it blam doesn't work at all. can anyone take a look at it?
[06:16] <Ubugtu> malone bug 4839 in blam "(dapper) blam stopped working" [Normal,Confirmed] 
[06:22] <G0SUB> vuntz ping
[06:22] <jpatrick> 'dpkg-deb: `vtigercrm-core_4.2.3-0ubuntu1_all.deb' contains no control component `preinst''
[06:23] <raphink-pbook> that's normal jpatrick
[06:23] <raphink-pbook> it's just a warning from the script, not an error
[06:23] <jpatrick> oh ok
[06:54] <vuntz> G0SUB: pong
[06:54] <G0SUB> vuntz got my mail?
[06:55] <vuntz> is maybe a good answer? :-)
[06:55] <vuntz> what's your email address?
[06:56] <G0SUB> vuntz hehe ... b.ghose at gnu.org.in
[06:56] <vuntz> oh, yes, here it is
[06:56] <vuntz> I'm planning to send a mail to the three people who wrote me about pessulus
[06:57] <vuntz> explaining what you can work on
[06:57] <G0SUB> okay
[06:57] <vuntz> but if you have good ideas on what to work on, go ahead :-)
[06:58] <ajmitch> vuntz: what a good way to sucker people into hacking on your code ;)
[06:58] <G0SUB> vuntz let's take a look at the current issues ... we can go for enh later
[06:58] <G0SUB> ajmitch ;)
[06:58] <vuntz> ajmitch: next thing is try to get people to work on my dissertation ;-)
[06:59] <G0SUB> lol!
[07:07] <Tm_T> good morning
[07:08] <jpatrick> evening
[07:09] <jpatrick> siretart: Tm_T would like uploader rights on revu
[07:09] <Tm_T> do I?
[07:10] <Tm_T> ;)
[07:10] <Tm_T> f*ing sleepless nights...
[07:11] <jpatrick> Tm_T: in my case the sleep's the problem
[07:11] <raphink-pbook> jpatrick: I'll do it
[07:11] <ajmitch> have you followed the usual procedure of uploading key to keyserver, sending a signed email?
[07:11] <Tm_T> raphink-pbook: yay!
[07:11] <raphink-pbook> Tm_T: send an email to keyrings signed with your key
[07:12] <Tm_T> raphink-pbook: doing it at the moment
[07:12] <raphink-pbook> oki
[07:12] <Tm_T> I'm bit lost atm but I'll hopefully manage to do it
[07:13] <raphink-pbook> ajmitch: aaaw :(
[07:15] <Tm_T> that revu thing sounds good
[07:16] <raphink-pbook> Tm_T: did you send the mail?
[07:17] <Tm_T> not yet
[07:17] <Tm_T> big wheel turns slow
[07:17] <Tm_T> (what wheel?)
[07:17] <raphink-pbook> hmmm
[07:18] <Tm_T> haven't got any caffeine today
[07:18] <raphink-pbook> talking of linear or rotating speed?
[07:18] <Tm_T> talking about fourth dimension
[07:27] <Tm_T> sent
[07:27] <Tm_T> ...I think
[07:28] <Tm_T> I hope some day I don't have to hide behind my sleepness... coffee ->
[07:34] <Toadstool> hi here
[07:34] <raphink-pbook> hi
[07:44] <jpatrick> hey Toadstool
[07:45] <Toadstool> hi jpatrick
[07:45] <Erlang> is it possible to create a 32 bits dapper pbuilder on an AMD64 system?
[07:45] <Toadstool> Erlang: yep in a chroot
[07:46] <Erlang> I need to make a 32 bits chroot to create a 32 bits pbuilder chroot??
[07:49] <Toadstool> the fact is, i used a dapper i386 chroot on my amd64 box cause some apps didn't really work in breezy 64, thus i had my pbuilder in this chroot, i've never tried to do it another way :)
[07:50] <Erlang> that could be a solution... will think about that.  thank you.
[08:03] <raphink-pbook> Tm_T: what add did you send your email to?
[08:04] <raphink-pbook> didn't receive anything yet
[08:07] <ajmitch> To: keyring@tiber.tauware.de
[08:07] <ajmitch> Subject: REVU keyring
[08:08] <ajmitch> raphink-pbook: you didn't receive that email?
[08:08] <raphink-pbook> hmmm
[08:08] <raphink-pbook> didn't receive it yet
[08:08] <ajmitch> I got it quite awhile ago
[08:08] <raphink-pbook> it seems my ubuntu.com email redirection is very slow today
[08:09] <raphink-pbook> a mail sent to me to this address took about 15 minutes to reach me earlier
[08:09] <raphink-pbook> I should set to my gmail address directly maybe ;)
[08:09] <ajmitch> works fine for me
[08:09] <raphink-pbook> there
[08:09] <raphink-pbook> that'll be faster
[08:09] <ajmitch> my .forward on tiber points to ajmitch@ubuntu.com
[08:09] <raphink-pbook> my ubuntu.com address often takes time to forward
[08:10] <jpatrick> mine sometimes lags too
[08:10] <G0SUB> whom do I ask for a ubuntu.com forwarder?
[08:11] <ajmitch> you have to be an ubuntu member
[08:11] <jpatrick> G0SUB: it comes on after a while
[08:11] <jpatrick> ajmitch: he is
[08:11] <raphink-pbook> G0SUB: just wait
[08:11] <ajmitch> and then it uses your preferred address on launchpad
[08:11] <raphink-pbook> G0SUB: and try it from time to time, since elmo won't tell you when it's ready
[08:11] <G0SUB> but what about the forward username?
[08:11] <raphink-pbook> G0SUB: your LP nickname
[08:12] <raphink-pbook> @ubuntu.com
[08:12] <G0SUB> oh! ...
[08:12] <jpatrick> raphink-pbook: well Riddell's ain't
[08:12] <ajmitch> jpatrick: he's special
[08:12] <ajmitch> his one predates launchpad usage
[08:12] <jpatrick> yep :)
[08:13] <G0SUB> ajmitch isn't there any way to get a diff. username for the alias?
[08:14] <jpatrick> G0SUB: change it
[08:14] <ajmitch> not that I'm aware of
[08:14] <G0SUB> my preferred nick is taken in LP
[08:14] <ajmitch> then you're out of luck
[08:14] <G0SUB> :(
[08:14] <raphink-pbook> G0SUB: then you can't have it, unless you get an agreement with this other person who has it
[08:14] <raphink-pbook> lucas managed to get his nick on LP
[08:14] <raphink-pbook> asking the guy who had it
[08:14] <G0SUB> raphink-pbook the other person is totally inactive
[08:15] <G0SUB> https://launchpad.net/people/bg
[08:15] <raphink-pbook> G0SUB: then ask him/her
[08:15] <G0SUB> well, he/she doesn't even have a email listed
[08:15] <raphink-pbook> ah doesn't help ;)
[08:15] <raphink-pbook> you can ask elmo but I doubt you get anything
[08:16] <G0SUB> totally inactive as in _totally_ inactive :)
[08:16] <G0SUB> hmm
[08:17] <ajmitch> why would asking elmo help at all?
[08:17] <ajmitch> since it's just to do with launchpad username
[08:17] <jpatrick> => delete
[08:18] <ajmitch> there are other launchpad admins
[08:18] <ajmitch> elmo just handles more of the distro stuff
[08:18] <tseng> #launchpad
[08:18] <G0SUB> hmm ...
[08:18] <tseng> is the place to be.
[08:18] <G0SUB> tseng there alreay ;)
[08:19] <G0SUB> ajmitch are the aliases created manually?
[08:20] <ajmitch> no idea, I'm not an admin
[08:20] <G0SUB> ok
[08:21] <G0SUB> bah! the ID has alreay been created
[08:21] <G0SUB> g0sub@ubuntu.com
[08:22] <raphink-pbook> :)
[08:22] <G0SUB> aargh!
[08:22] <raphink-pbook> bah
[08:41] <jpatrick> hey LaserJock
[08:42] <G0SUB> LaserJock
[08:42] <LaserJock> hi jpatrick and G0SUB
[08:42] <Toadstool> wierd... it looks like my wide-dhcpv6 package is still in NEW (it's listed in my launchpad packages list) but wide-dhcpv6-server and -client show up when apt-cache searching for them although they're not installable...
[08:43] <jpatrick> Toadstool: I know it's odd
[08:43] <LaserJock> G0SUB: I cleaned up the lists last night
[08:43] <Gloubiboulga> Toadstool, I can't find the packages with apt-cache
[08:43] <LaserJock> G0SUB: did you add anything to the MiscPackages wiki ?
[08:44] <G0SUB> LaserJock no
[08:45] <LaserJock> G0SUB: ok, I think I'm pretty happy with the current list for now
[08:46] <G0SUB> LaserJock what about the electronics stuff?
[08:47] <LaserJock> G0SUB: I added it
[08:47] <G0SUB> LaserJock to that other page? I don't see it in the wiki
[08:48] <LaserJock> G0SUB: just a sec
[08:56] <LaserJock> G0SUB: ok, I gotta run some errands but check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Science . I replaced TeX with Electronics and added Misc
[08:57] <G0SUB> LaserJock ok
[08:57] <LaserJock> G0SUB: so far Misc is just the tex packages but I'll go through and find the source packages for what is on MiscPackages and add them to my list
[08:57] <G0SUB> ok
[08:58] <LaserJock> I'll be back in a bit
[09:09] <Tm_T> hummmm
[09:11] <Tm_T> ok, see you guys more on monday, now sleep I hope ->
[09:13] <jpatrick> night
[09:30] <Mongoose> I got the emacs gtk+2 snapshot from debian packaged for ubuntu amd64 no conflicts, all pretty
[09:31] <Mongoose> is there some way to share this joy with others?  =)
[09:32] <Mongoose> I was wondering if there is some mousey repo outside of universe
[09:34] <Mongoose> also why is there not an im-ja in amd64?
[09:59] <dolson> hey, I'm looking at the list of packages that have unmet deps, and one of them I can see for sure can easily be solved by simply rebuilding the package, no changes needed.. how does that get fixed? is there anything I can do, put a request in somewhere, or what?
[09:59] <Mongoose> we meet again
[10:00] <LaserJock> hi Mongoose and dolson
[10:00] <Mongoose> dolson: yeah, all they need to do is edit the control file for emacs snapshot
[10:00] <Mongoose> hey
[10:00] <Mongoose> dolson: you know if libinklevel is still under development
[10:01] <Mongoose> I just made a makefile and stuff for it and got it working on amd64
[10:01] <LaserJock> Mongoose: so the present snapshot packages don't work on amd64?
[10:01] <Mongoose> LaserJock: not the march ones
[10:02] <Mongoose> easy fix however just edit some values in the control file
[10:02] <LaserJock> Mongoose: is there a bug report?
[10:02] <Mongoose> no I'm new to ubuntu -- should I file one for a package you don't have yet?
[10:03] <jpatrick> impossible I think
[10:03] <LaserJock> we don't have it?
[10:03] <Mongoose> yeah
[10:03] <jpatrick> package must be there first
[10:03] <Mongoose> emacs gtk2 snapshot isn't in ubuntu iirc
[10:03] <Mongoose> it's on the wish list page
[10:03] <LaserJock> emacs-snapshot isn't it?
[10:03] <Mongoose> I'm on amd64 if that matters
[10:04] <Mongoose> I don't recall it being in i386 either
[10:04] <Mongoose> I have a chroot for i386
[10:04] <Mongoose> I had to make an im-ja for japanese input for amd64 as well
[10:04] <tseng> OUTPUTFILE="$(eval echo "$OUTPUTFORMAT")"
[10:05] <tseng> is this valid bash? doesnt look it to me
[10:05] <LaserJock> Mongoose: ok, but this is different than emacs-snapshot?
[10:05] <tseng> abcde line 1152
[10:05] <Mongoose> LaserJock: I'm from debian, so what's different about emacs-snapshot on debian?
[10:06] <azeem> Ubuntu doesn't have emacs-snapshot it seems
[10:06] <Mongoose> tseng: that looks dangerous for shell expansion
[10:06] <tseng> Mongoose: yeah, it fails, naturally
[10:06] <Mongoose> I may host some im-ja amd64 ubuntu debs on my website soon
[10:06] <Mongoose> tseng: use ``
[10:07] <tseng> its not my code
[10:07] <Mongoose> tseng: however there are better ways to capture it
[10:07] <Mongoose> ok  =)
[10:07] <tseng> i was assuming the author knows more bash than either of us
[10:07] <tseng> its abcde
[10:07] <Mithrandir> tseng: it's legal bash
[10:07] <Mongoose> I'm not uberbash god but I've used it for almost 2 decades
[10:08] <dolson> hey Mongoose
[10:08] <Mongoose> dolson: how's it going?
[10:08] <dolson> hi LaserJock
[10:08] <LaserJock_> Mongoose: the packages in Ubuntu come from Debian
[10:08] <dolson> Mongoose: not bad.. so you use Ubuntu now?
[10:08] <Mongoose> LaserJock: ok
[10:09] <Mongoose> dolson: yes, got a new AMD64 x2 rig -- working on nwn2 now
[10:09] <dolson> Mongoose: wha??
[10:09] <Mongoose> dolson: I can afford to make exotic packages now  ;)
[10:09] <LaserJock_> Mongoose: so is your package different than what we've already got>
[10:09] <Mongoose> LaserJock: I didn't see emacs-snapshot in the repo -- let me check
[10:10] <Mongoose> yeah
[10:10] <Mongoose> my package is for nox, x, and gtk2
[10:10] <Mongoose> I see you have one now nice
[10:10] <Ubugtu> malone bug 33847 in munin munin-node "Munin node fails to start after reboot" [Major,In progress] 
[10:10] <LaserJock_> so is the emacs-snapshot
[10:10] <Mongoose> the package name is different than debians
[10:11] <ilmari> would suck to release dapper with that one unfixed
[10:11] <dolson> Mongoose: so.. nwn2 = bioware's game? or is this some other "nwn" ?
[10:11] <Mongoose> apt-cache show emacs-snapshot-gtk
[10:11] <Mongoose> dolson: no obsidian
[10:11] <LaserJock_> Mongoose: which is gtk2
[10:11] <Mongoose> thanks
[10:11] <Mongoose> LaserJock: yes it seems libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.8.0)
[10:12] <Mongoose> LaserJock: is im-ja named something else too?
[10:12] <dolson> Mongoose: oh, no more bioware.. so you're porting it to Linux? or do you work for Obsidian now, and are developing it for Windows/Mac?
[10:12] <Mongoose> 'gnome japanese input mode'
[10:12] <Mithrandir> hi ilmari
[10:12] <ilmari> Mithrandir: hiya :)
[10:12] <Mongoose> dolson: windows only
[10:13] <azeem> Mongoose: is im-ja in Debian?
[10:13] <Mongoose> dolson: I would have liked to do a linux port, but I'll barely have time to do all the engine stuff for windows
[10:13] <LaserJock_> Mongoose: we don't rename packages usually. It should be the same in Ubuntu as it is in Debian
[10:13] <Mongoose> azeem: yes
[10:13] <azeem> Mongoose: what's the package name?
[10:13] <dolson> Mongoose: :( oh well, sorry to say I won't be buying. but you won't miss my $50 anyhow
[10:14] <Mongoose> im-ja-all
[10:14] <Mongoose> dolson: well, it should work in wine
[10:14] <azeem> Mongoose: I can't find that
[10:14] <dolson> Mongoose: how quickly you forget my disdain for such a thing
[10:15] <Mongoose> dolson: sorry  =(
[10:15] <Mongoose> azeem: well, it works right out of debian source no changes
[10:16] <Mongoose> http://im-ja.sourceforge.net/
[10:16] <azeem> Mongoose: there's no im-ja-all package in Debian, I am saying
[10:16] <Mongoose> what?
[10:16] <Mongoose> that's odd
[10:16] <Mongoose> oh wait it might be my local
[10:16] <Mongoose> I'll have to check and see if it's in sid
[10:17] <azeem> packages.debian.org/im-ja-all quite clearly states it is not, unless I typo'd the URL
[10:17] <Mongoose> azeem: how do I vote to have it included in ubuntu?
[10:18] <azeem> do you have a package ready?
[10:18] <Mongoose> I'm so used to setting up japanese I often forget the distro lacks a lot of things
[10:18] <Mongoose> yes, I have the one I made
[10:18] <LaserJock_> Mongoose: you can package it and upload it to the REVU server
[10:18] <Mongoose> if you wish to test it
[10:19] <LaserJock_> Mongoose: and then it can be reviewed by MOTUs
[10:19] <Mongoose> oh ok
[10:19] <Mongoose> thanks
[10:19] <LaserJock_> Mongoose: or you can get it into Debian and we will get it later
[10:19] <Mongoose> true  =)
[10:21] <LaserJock_> but REVU is good for getting feedback
[10:21] <Mongoose> ok
[10:23] <dolson> Mongoose: don't use checkinstall
[10:23] <Mongoose> hhmm?
[10:24] <LaserJock_> nice, I finally quit :-)
[10:25] <Mongoose> dolson: oh, I'm going to make new freyja packages soon
[10:25] <dolson> Mongoose: that's your 3d modeller, right?
[10:25] <Mongoose> yeah
[10:25] <Mongoose> it's still developed on weekends like this
[10:25] <Mongoose> it's easy
[10:26] <dolson> yeah, for a developer or someone with artistic talent, perhaps
[10:26] <Mongoose> well, I'll have to backburner this for a bit I have to do clothes  =)
[10:26] <Mongoose> laters
[10:26] <dolson> I mean, if you're working on a 3d engine, such as NWN2, then you should find freyja easy
[10:26] <Mongoose> dolson: nice seeing you again
[10:26] <dolson> Mongoose: yeah, same man. :)
[10:27] <Mongoose> dolson: I'm doing mostly engine animation system
[10:27] <Mongoose> not D3D  =)
[10:29] <dolson> so, I didn't get any answer to my question
[10:29] <dolson> here it is again: I'm looking at the list of packages that have unmet deps, and one of them I can see for sure can easily be solved by simply rebuilding the package, no changes needed.. how does that get fixed? is there anything I can do, put a request in somewhere, or what?
[10:30] <LaserJock> dolson: I'm honestly not sure how that would work with soyuz
[10:31] <LaserJock> dolson: what package is it?
[10:32] <dolson> LaserJock: well, it appears there's already been a bug opened on this particular one, but I'm not finished going through the list, so I just wanted to know for future packages.. this one is libbio2jack0. the bug # is 33659
[10:34] <LaserJock> dolson: ok, maybe I'll ask #launchpad. I might be able to poke something and get it to rebuild
[10:35] <dolson> there's another package, supercollider, same exact thing, but Gloubilobuga (or however he spells it, lol) has already opened a bug for that too. he puts changes in the changelog for these, in a diff. I guess that's the way it is supposed to be done?
[10:36] <minghua> LaserJock, dolson: my understanding is that you can just upload a -Xbuild1 package without changes (just a new changelog entry) to fix the dependency problem
[10:36] <Spec> You know, on the wiki ServerCandy, it doesn't mention backup software anywhere at all....
[10:36] <LaserJock> dolson: I don't think we need to do that just yet. We don't need changes the package
[10:36] <minghua> LaserJock, dolson: better check with othe MOTU too
[10:36] <Spec> Is there a gui backup 'solution' for dapper?
[10:37] <minghua> LaserJock: also I got mail from plotdrop upstream :-)
[10:37] <Spec> and shouldn't backup software be included and promoted? it's pretty damn important, i'd say
[10:37] <dolson> minghua: that's what G-man did in his diff, yeah, but I had never seen it before :)
[10:37] <LaserJock> minghua: yeah, that is how it was done before soyuz, but I thought we were going to be able to poke a build from LP
[10:37] <minghua> LaserJock: oh okay, then go poke :-D
[10:37] <bpuccio> where's the file that contains the installed status of a system's packages? I thought it was in /etc/apt/ but I can't find it (I cannot do a dpkg =l | grep ii)
[10:38] <LaserJock> dpkg -l you mean?
[10:38] <Spec> bpuccio: /var/cache/apt/
[10:38] <Spec> not saying you can read it though
[10:39] <bpuccio> Spec:  oh, hmmm, yeah, can't read those .bin files
[10:39] <minghua> bpuccio: why can't you do "dpkg -l | grep ^ii"?
[10:39] <JohnnyMast> whats the mplayer pkg name ?
[10:39] <minghua> bpuccio: do you mean there are some broken packages on your system?
[10:39] <Spec> you can do: strings pkgcache.bin, but it's weird
[10:39] <bpuccio> minghua:  becuase I didn't boot this system, I just tossed the drive in another machine to see its contents and it would be useful to get a list of all the installed packages
[10:39] <minghua> Hmm.
[10:40] <LaserJock> Spec: there is a Home User Backup in the works (the spec should be on the wiki). there are some other backup packages in the repos but I can't remeber their names offhand
[10:40] <Spec> bpuccio: if you're using linux, mount -t proc proc /path/to/mounted/harddrives/proc
[10:40] <Spec> bpuccio: and then chroot /path/to/mounted/harddrives/root
[10:40] <Spec> and then you can do dpkg -l
[10:40] <LaserJock> JohnnyMast: mplayer?
[10:40] <bpuccio> thanks, Spec, that's a neat trick!
[10:40] <JohnnyMast> uhu
[10:40] <bpuccio> I'll give it a shot
[10:40] <JohnnyMast> mplayer isnt found
[10:40] <Spec> LaserJock: I wrote some backup wiki information
[10:40] <Spec> LaserJock: but that's very not GUIish, and I think backup should've been considered as a very good goal for system administration
[10:41] <Spec> I was just reading about how Dapper is a 5+ year supported OS
[10:41] <Spec> and yet I didn't read anything about any plans to implement backup software as default, easy, etc etc
[10:41] <JohnnyMast> Package mplayer is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[10:41] <JohnnyMast> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
[10:41] <JohnnyMast> is only available from another source
[10:41] <LaserJock> JohnnyMast: got all the repos?
[10:42] <minghua> bpuccio: you may want to look at /var/lib/dpkg/status, but chroot is a good idea indeed
[10:42] <LaserJock> Spec: it was going to implemented in Dapper but I'm not sure if it made it
[10:42] <JohnnyMast> yeah since i was developing motu doing stuff for ubuntu
[10:42] <Spec> i was looking at    https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+specs
[10:42] <Spec> I don't see any deferred status or anything
[10:42] <LaserJock> JohnnyMast: it is in multiverse
[10:42] <JohnnyMast> let me start thw gui
[10:42] <JohnnyMast> i will figure it out
[10:43] <Spec> it's depressing, people bitch about their systems being broken, first thing someone answers "do you have a backup?", and yet, there's no way to easily go to a menu item and back up your computer to say, cds, or dvds, or nfs, or tape,...
[10:43] <minghua> Spec, LaserJock: my understanding from the last dapper status meeting is that HomeUserBackup spec is deferred, but it has a good chance to make into universe for dapper
[10:43] <LaserJock> Spec: you can check the status at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-March/000093.html
[10:43] <JohnnyMast> mplayer should bring only 2 packages
[10:44] <JohnnyMast> binary and skins
[10:44] <Spec> how do i get to that spec, minghua?
[10:44] <JohnnyMast> lol mplayer 0 results
[10:44] <LaserJock> Spec: wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup
[10:45] <Spec> ah, spec on teh wiki
[10:45] <LaserJock> JohnnyMast: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=mplayer&searchon=sourcenames&subword=1&version=dapper&release=all
[10:45] <Spec> excellent
[10:45] <Spec> i'll read all of that and come here and complain later then :)
[10:46] <Spec> i have to go clean house for company, thanks for information
[10:46] <bpuccio> minghua:  ahh, that's the file, thanks very much!
[10:46] <JohnnyMast> yeah could try that
[10:46] <JohnnyMast> ty LaserJock old buddy
[10:46] <minghua> bpuccio: you ar welcome
[10:46] <LaserJock> JohnnyMast: np. packages.ubuntu.com is a useful resource
[10:46] <JohnnyMast> i know
[10:58] <G0SUB> LaserJock have you seen this https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-March/000734.html ?
[10:59] <tseng> everyone has, by now
[10:59] <G0SUB> hmm
[11:00] <minghua> G0SUB: you should subscribe to ubuntu-devel-announce list by the way
[11:00] <minghua> then you won't miss messages like this any more ;-)
[11:01] <G0SUB> minghua ;)
[11:01] <LaserJock> or the ubuntu forums, or /. probably ;-)
[11:01] <LaserJock> or is that \. ?
[11:02] <G0SUB>  /.
[11:02] <minghua> I actually suspect G0SUB got this from /.
[11:02] <G0SUB> minghua no
[11:02] <minghua> oh okay
[11:02] <G0SUB> minghua i got it from digg
[11:02] <G0SUB> ;)
[11:06] <G0SUB> minghua LaserJock what do you think about that?
[11:06] <G0SUB> tseng you too
[11:06] <LaserJock> about what? the push back?
[11:06] <G0SUB> yes, the 6 weeks pushback
[11:07] <LaserJock> I don't mind it but I think maybe it would be better if it was shorter. I also wonder what happens to Dapper+1
[11:07] <tseng> i think i dont care
[11:07] <G0SUB> what happens to dapper+1, as in ?
[11:08] <tseng> i dont agree with most of mark's high profile 'proposals', but this isnt one i am going to make a fuss over
[11:08] <minghua> I would rather not see it happen.  But I see the reason to delay and can accept it
[11:09] <LaserJock> G0SUB: as in, will Dapper+1 be pushed as well so that we have 6 months or will we have less time?
[11:10] <G0SUB> point #3 is a valid point ... since dapper is going to be an enterprise version, we need better testing for l10n & IMs etc.
[11:10] <minghua> LaserJock: I think I heard on #ubuntu-devel yesterday, that if the pushback does happen, the developement period for dapper+1, +2, and +3 are all going to be shortened by 2 weeks
[11:10] <minghua> LaserJock: nothing official, of course
[11:10] <LaserJock> hmm, interesting
[11:10] <G0SUB> hmm
[11:11] <LaserJock> dang it, scilab is a mess and the Debian Maintainer looks to be possibly MIA (2 RC bugs about 6 months old)
[11:12] <G0SUB> LaserJock the fonts issue?
[11:12] <LaserJock> well, it won't even start now
[11:12] <G0SUB> damn
[11:13] <LaserJock> hmm, and debian removed it from testing
[11:13] <G0SUB> LaserJock ask somebody to do an NMU
[11:14] <LaserJock> but the current Debian version is from 2004 (3.0) and they released 4.0 on Feb 15th
[11:14] <G0SUB> bah
[11:15] <LaserJock> I wish I had found out sooner, I might have tried to package 4.0 for Dapper. I don't know if I can get a UVF exception now.
[11:19] <G0SUB> later guys ...
[11:19] <LaserJock> cya G0SUB
[11:19] <G0SUB> LaserJock :)
[11:34] <LaserJock> nabend netzmeister
[11:35] <netzmeister> hi LaserJock
[11:38] <LaserJock> netzmeister: Wie geht es dir?
[11:38] <LaserJock> wb raphink-pbook
[11:39] <raphink-pbook> thanks LaserJock
[11:42] <LaserJock> netzmeister: I didn't even have to look it up this time. I must be learning ;-)
[11:52] <LaserJock> ogra_: ping?
[11:53] <ogra_> LaserJock, pong
[11:55] <LaserJock> ogra_: I was looking for science related packages and I saw the education-* from DebianEdu. Do you use those in Edubuntu?
[11:55] <ogra_> currently we only use metapackages like ubuntu and kubuntu ...
[11:56] <ogra_> i'd like to see a edubuntu-science-unoverse package at some point though
[11:56] <ogra_> *universe
[11:56] <LaserJock> ogra_: so you don't group packages together buy subject? how do you pick what packages get in?
[11:56] <LaserJock> I think that might be nice. I'd been interested in that if you need help, etc.
[11:56] <ogra_> we had a edubuntu summit where we let the teachers and school admins decide what should go in ...
[11:57] <LaserJock> ah, makes sense
[11:57] <ogra_> i just moved to main what was possible from that list
[11:57] <ogra_> but i want to revisit the app selection fro dapper+1 (unless we have only a 4 month release cycle)
[11:59] <LaserJock> hmm, some universe metapackages or something would be nice. There has been some discussion in the past about making some science field metapackages ( i.e. ubuntu-chemistry, ubuntu-physics, etc.)
[12:00] <ogra_> yeah, something along these lines was planned by the edubuntu people
[12:01] <ogra_> but that was a while ago and the people didnt do much work yet ... (i'm simply missing people with packaging skills in edubuntu, even if everybody is highly motivated and great ideas come up )
[12:01] <minghua> any MOTU have time to upload a fake sync for me?
[12:02] <LaserJock> ogra_: are there any science related apps that need to be packaged for edubuntu?
[12:02] <minghua> my request is at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-March/000564.html
[12:03] <ogra_> LaserJock, i didnt look at apps in this release cycle (apart from gobby which hilariously failed) i bet you know better than me whats the current status of science apps
[12:03] <ogra_> my main part in this release was ltsp ...